Umbrella Academy Season 4 Episode 6 Podcast

[00:00:00] This is the Umbrella Academy on TV Podcast Industries, We're discussing the final ever episode of Umbrella Academy Season 4 Episode 6, End of the Beginning.

[00:00:10] Don't try to stop me.

[00:00:11] I love you.

[00:00:12] I can't just leave the me. What if they don't make it?

[00:00:14] Then they don't make it.

[00:00:20] If you go with them then this whole thing starts over.

[00:00:23] It doesn't end until all the miracles inside of us has gone.

[00:00:28] You don't know that.

[00:00:30] Yeah, I do.

[00:00:33] You do too.

[00:00:37] You have to let them go.

[00:00:47] Welcome back fellow Academy of Alumni, Take a Shes Off.

[00:00:50] It's time to come back together for the finale of The Umbrella Academy with Season 4 Episode 6, End of the Beginning.

[00:00:56] I'm one of your house, Derek.

[00:00:57] I'm going to house Chris, but please leave your shoes on. This is a good establishment.

[00:01:02] It's one of those fancy places you can't take your shoes off.

[00:01:04] No, it's just like Diego's house.

[00:01:05] Take a lot of this house. Take a shoes off and you come in.

[00:01:08] Be respectful of their upholstery and car.

[00:01:10] Okay, that's very different.

[00:01:12] I thought you were making the I just thought you'd been weird.

[00:01:14] Like kind of like,

[00:01:15] Hey, she's a signal.

[00:01:16] Do you be fine?

[00:01:17] No, no, no.

[00:01:17] I think it was just a funny joke all the way through every time the day.

[00:01:20] I mean, to remember the family just telling the same shoes off immediately.

[00:01:23] It's actually, I guess it's in his in-laws house.

[00:01:25] That's probably why he's so protective of it, right?

[00:01:29] Anyway, we are a part of the in-laws.

[00:01:31] Well, we are back for the final episode of Umbrella Academy Season 4 and the final episode

[00:01:36] of All of the in-browl Academy Chris.

[00:01:40] Forever ever it's gone.

[00:01:42] Crazy thing, because not after all these years and four seasons.

[00:01:46] I feel like every season when we finished it all,

[00:01:49] we weren't sure whether we were going to get it or the season of the show.

[00:01:52] So it's got a cool that we did guess,

[00:01:54] Affinality and the end to the story for the characters and these actors as well.

[00:01:58] So they write a bit behind the scenes as we said all the way through the writers and directors of all

[00:02:02] the episodes and the actors obviously been there since the start.

[00:02:06] So it's been a bit of a family in itself, since the beginning of the show.

[00:02:10] Yeah, and they do what I get into with that the end credits where you literally see all of the writers

[00:02:19] and the actors and the producers and the cameraman as them team all these behind the scenes shots and

[00:02:25] the camera photos and it was beautiful to see because it was all the way back.

[00:02:30] So I thought, oh this is just for the season and then they threw in like a season one.

[00:02:35] I was like, oh interesting.

[00:02:38] Yeah, yeah, it was really nice to really nice touch and as we've said before,

[00:02:42] it's kind of rare that we get to show the gets its finale and gets its end.

[00:02:48] Yeah, always seem to leave the door open for something else to happen in the future.

[00:02:51] So it's kind of nice to have this end point and that post credits scene as you say with the family sharing all the things they've gone through

[00:03:01] over the course of the last four years.

[00:03:03] So that was kind of nice to have an ending like that.

[00:03:06] Yeah, ending on your own terms is always good ending on a suits terms in the who's in an office

[00:03:13] and just said if you haven't got the right numbers to make it worthwhile for them.

[00:03:17] Not great. Yeah, so this and there's a quite happy there is a definitive end.

[00:03:26] It is there is no like, oh, here they do.

[00:03:30] There's a spring of hope coming in like with being out of a thing.

[00:03:34] Yeah, nope, it is just this is the end.

[00:03:37] Yeah, it's like there's no now any good writer worth a salt can turn.

[00:03:44] Well, we see at the end of this and make something out of it.

[00:03:47] We wanted to continue.

[00:03:48] But I get the feeling it is not the case and they have decided goodbye to this beautiful world.

[00:03:57] It's the button to move down to something else.

[00:03:58] These onto his next project and they so and the rest of the team are obviously have moved on from the show now quite a while

[00:04:04] and this was filmed last year.

[00:04:06] So they've all all moved on to other stuff show is finished.

[00:04:09] But I do always think my favorite example is as supernatural which was written by our cryptic.

[00:04:13] We of course, up and following through H.

[00:04:16] The voice he wrote a five season show with a very definitive archive.

[00:04:20] The show was going to end in the fifth season and then slightly rewrote the finale of the fifth season and I continue

[00:04:25] on for ten more seasons under a different show winner.

[00:04:28] So there's always ways to do it as you say if they did want to bring the back for something else in the future.

[00:04:32] So you never know, ten years time we might see the umbrella Academy return.

[00:04:36] You never know. We'll still be in short.

[00:04:40] The five was still in short, so I would be back in his school uniform.

[00:04:44] And we are of course going to into full spoiler fill detail for the finale of umbrella Academy.

[00:04:50] We're going to talk about all of it as much as we possibly can.

[00:04:53] So who people watch the episode and hope you've enjoyed joining us.

[00:04:56] I know we're a bit late coming back with the final episodes of umbrella Academy.

[00:05:00] But hey, it's kind of the opposite of what Dr. Malcolm says in Jurassic Park and life got in the way this time.

[00:05:07] So that's all that happens.

[00:05:08] Yeah, I was on the point.

[00:05:10] I thought you had a sick baby exactly who required a dad to be on full.

[00:05:16] Judy.

[00:05:16] 24 seven for a few days which just when you're in full.

[00:05:21] Judy, you get no chance to do full podcast or Judy exactly.

[00:05:26] So it happened.

[00:05:27] We made it work and we are here and ready to discuss this finale.

[00:05:32] Absolutely. Yeah, on to episode six, I'll season four end of the beginning.

[00:05:35] The show of course great for TV by Steve Blackman, developed by Jerry Slazer based on the comic book series by Jared Way and Gabriel Bae

[00:05:41] And directed this episode once again by Parker Cabezas who I mentioned directed three of the six episodes this season.

[00:05:46] So put his stamp on the final season of of umbrella Academy.

[00:05:50] The teleplay for this episode was written by Jesse McIoun and Robert Askins and Christopher High and Steve Blackman.

[00:05:56] There's Robert's eighth episode, Christopher's second episode of the umbrella Academy and Steve of course is the show winner along with Jesse McIoun who wrote the story for the episode.

[00:06:04] He's the executive producer on the show and this is his eighth episode as well.

[00:06:08] So as I mentioned lots of the people behind this show have been here for such a long time.

[00:06:12] I'm been involved all the way through at the seasons as well. So a nice family finale.

[00:06:17] Yeah.

[00:06:17] But should we jump into the summary for this episode?

[00:06:22] Sure. The keeper has set up a blockade around Ben and Jennifer's building where their bodies have been severely mutated as a result of them interacting with each other.

[00:06:32] Victor tries purging the Durango now inside Ben but fails and Ben and Jennifer merged to become the clans.

[00:06:40] Abigail hidden inside the body of Jean Thibodot kills his wife Jean when she begins to get suspicious.

[00:06:46] With both Thibodot's dead Abigail tells Rachel that she brought about the clans because she shouldn't have been brought back to life and the timeline should be reset again.

[00:06:57] Meanwhile, the umbrella Academy team up to try but failed to stop the benefit creature with as they combine powers of Durango and my world inside them is overwhelming.

[00:07:10] Five detected at failing to stop the clans why it's the timeline so way alone until he meets five other timelines.

[00:07:18] They tell him that there is only supposed to be one timeline and the splitting and merging of timelines as well as the constant threat of apocalypse is due to the existence of the miracle and their family.

[00:07:29] When original first released the miracle in 1989 a side effect of women getting pregnant was also the creation of multiple timelines.

[00:07:37] Five goes back to his siblings and tells them that they need to let the clans absorb them and their marigold in doing so.

[00:07:45] They will cease to exist but they will also create only one singular timeline without any apocalypse.

[00:07:52] Lila saves her family in Alice's daughter Claire and then joins the siblings as they are all absorbed just showing all but one timeline.

[00:08:01] In the one timeline with the marigold and Durango destroyed friends and foe of the past live at their normal lives on a typical day where nothing exceptional happens.

[00:08:12] Finally, the umbrella Academy have saved the day.

[00:08:16] Ah, with no more apocalypse is to come either.

[00:08:19] We hope.

[00:08:22] Well, at least not any calls by the umbrella Academy.

[00:08:27] There was kind of a side moment in the episode where they're kind of going, oh, I guess we could accept sacrificing ourselves for the apocalypse.

[00:08:35] And then it's pointed out that not only are the sacrifices themselves but they are going to die and they will never have exist as nobody will ever remember who they are.

[00:08:44] And it feels like a really sad thing to say in your final episode of Four Seasons Show that had huge ratings to begin with the first season of the show and seconds season of the show were massive hits for Netflix.

[00:08:56] Change to bet over time as the show and all of course, both that happens but it just feels like a really sad thing to say that we are ending the show you're all going to die and then nobody will ever remember who you are.

[00:09:08] Just felt like a really sad moment.

[00:09:11] I agree, I think it's let's get into our spoiler filled discussion of this episode.

[00:09:22] Derek, do you want to go first because I have thoughts and opinions but I want to get yours first.

[00:09:28] So where would you like to start? What was your big moment for this episode?

[00:09:30] Yeah, I think I'm going to talk about my big moment which is the coming together of all of the siblings the umbrella Academy returning with Lila and as we as is pointed out.

[00:09:39] But because it needed to happen the show did need to end with jokes and last week's episode that it would just be Victor being the most powerful member of the umbrella Academy will just stop the apocalypse happening and then the rest of the siblings would wouldn't play any part in the course.

[00:09:54] Of course, it's the final episode so you do have to get the set nice again.

[00:09:57] But what I did like about it was they got the ball together for I guess Christmas dinner as Diego's in law's house and they all go there and the kind of just bigger with each other and kind of forget about the fact that there's a lot of things.

[00:10:09] And the apocalypse coming and that they need to do something by the until one of the kids point out that there's news on the TV, a grown ups maybe you should be concerned about this news on the TV.

[00:10:19] They're all bickering with their particularly around the fact that Lila and five have returned.

[00:10:25] And initially they don't tell them that they've been gone for as long as they've been gone they've been gone for the seven years.

[00:10:30] They kind of fit back in with the family and eventually Diego works out something that's been going on and he thinks his suspicions about Lila choosing on them.

[00:10:40] Where it confirmed that she was choosing on them with five and then they reveal what had happened along there were way along Lila effectively resisted going with five and Diego initially is understandably pretty free dead by that.

[00:10:54] And of course we have Alison Lutheran place watching on like all they were missing was popcorn buckets to enjoy the fight that's going on between the Lila and Diego and out of five here.

[00:11:05] But I kind of I just know I kind of thought this was an interesting way of doing it have them completely separate from a victor is the only one that's actually on at Grand Zero for the clowns going on and the rest of the umbrella academy are all just sitting around.

[00:11:19] Bickering with each other and supposed to be dead there stopping the clans from happening this was supposed to be their purpose for for the whole season right, but it's like as if they forgot.

[00:11:29] Yeah that's kind of the interesting part like you're right we all we were missing was clives picking up a ball of popcorn and just sitting there and eating it as he kind of you hear this because him and Alison like Lidchie is like oh the tea is being spilled.

[00:11:47] Exactly actually as Alison going we should go and Luther's like no way am I leaving this you really want to see it.

[00:11:55] So I look at this this for me was for this this this was the culmination explosion that we knew was going to come in the last episode.

[00:12:04] Yeah as it's just so awkward.

[00:12:09] It's just it hurts my soul.

[00:12:14] At how awkward it is but I suppose that's the realism that almost come to expect somewhat from this show.

[00:12:24] That is siblings.

[00:12:27] Now I can't really say that siblings who sleep with your brothers wife.

[00:12:33] Yeah.

[00:12:33] But I'm sure that's happened if you live I don't have any experience of it.

[00:12:38] Yeah thankfully thankfully yeah.

[00:12:39] It helps I don't I don't have a brother that's why.

[00:12:41] Yeah yeah but check out a couple of premiership footballer biographies you'll see how often it does happen sadly.

[00:12:48] Of course.

[00:12:50] But what are the other things that's supposed to come together and then going down to fight the to fight the clans we see Victor inside fighting against ban trying to stop ban and

[00:13:00] ban knocking out Victor before properly merging with Jennifer and as you probably saw from the Snopsys.

[00:13:07] It's now a benefit we have a virtual confirmation nobody else says it in the show but that's definitely benefit the merged two versions of these two

[00:13:15] Durango and and Marigold fields beings.

[00:13:21] But when the rest of the family come down I don't know whether you felt this Chris we have seen them fight alongside each other a few times over the course of the season.

[00:13:28] We don't always see them using all of their parents at the same time all seven members of the family plus lila and I thought they were pretty useless when they thought we're just friends pretty they were a hundred percent.

[00:13:43] This was one of the annoying factors for me because as children.

[00:13:49] They did they did learn how to fight.

[00:13:53] They did learn how to be a team and then over previous seasons we have seen them be a bit more.

[00:14:04] useful in a fight.

[00:14:06] Yeah but I think it does tend to be one member of the team uses their parents for one specific objective.

[00:14:14] And here we don't see that we see all them trying to fight alongside each other and I think if I'm right the only time we've actually seen that happen was when they were accustomed.

[00:14:28] And I think that's the only time we've seen them fight side by side as a costume group of heroes.

[00:14:39] And Victor wasn't there either so Victor was left at home.

[00:14:43] So it makes you kind of think well maybe it's been you know a good 10 15 years mate really since they all fought side by side with each other and they don't use any other powers.

[00:14:51] In any way together at all other than to get out of there play seasons his new flag ability for example to fly Luther right there and five uses his jumping ability to get them in the end age of a tight spot but they are not combined together.

[00:15:08] I don't know why but I thought Allison for example would try and use her powers to reach Ben inside the cleanse.

[00:15:15] Yep. She seems to try and then just sees Ben's face merged in the background effectively seem kind of coming out through the skin of the cleanse if you want to call it that.

[00:15:25] And then she stops and gets gets knocked out and then Luther goes into uses his punching ability to well get his hands stuck in the ass of the other.

[00:15:36] But they seem quite useless.

[00:15:38] It was a look it was fun to see from a cinematic perspective I will say parts of the CGI.

[00:15:48] We're walking.

[00:15:51] Just at the very beginning.

[00:15:54] Before they they obviously spent towards the end they spent a bit more money on the CGI.

[00:15:59] Can I give you a quote directly from Steve Blackman?

[00:16:03] This is the most expensive episode of in Braalacadamis since the first episode.

[00:16:07] It's more expensive than any episode of the in Braalacadamis that's ever been done so if there's anyone you see to you either didn't even have any more money to throw out.

[00:16:14] Let's take literally through everything at the screen here.

[00:16:17] Yeah, now I'd like again if you're going to go for broken might as well because this is literally the end.

[00:16:25] I was just I look I enjoyed because of what it is it's that umbrella Academy essentially losing the ultimate battle.

[00:16:37] Losing against their Thanos.

[00:16:40] Yeah.

[00:16:40] And getting destroyed for us.

[00:16:43] So I just thought it was so.

[00:16:46] I'm so happy the way it turned out for I was also kind of expecting a bit more.

[00:16:54] I think I was expecting just a bit more from them.

[00:16:57] Yeah, I think that's the thing.

[00:16:59] I'm with you on the.

[00:16:59] Yeah, because they had the Diego Luther fight last episode where they fought alongside each other and took out all the the CIA agents.

[00:17:08] You kind of think that oh, if you get the other five members of the team back together then they can all work together using their Paris in different ways.

[00:17:14] So, you know, victory you use your parodges over here and Allison if you do this and Luther leading them and we have a little bit of build up from Diego to Luther saying how great the leader he actually is and you know actually giving it a bit of praise for the first time I think.

[00:17:27] It's the first season.

[00:17:28] Diego actually praises Luther so I kind of thought that when they all get together that Luther would be the one to lead the bid to this big battle and tell them all their places and they would finally come together as a team but that's not what's going to happen in this final episode.

[00:17:41] So I did I really liked it.

[00:17:43] I liked having the group back together and because it is more of a sibling fight to begin with and that eventually we see them.

[00:17:52] Working together and having this battle but not very well.

[00:17:56] So I like this.

[00:17:57] There's loads of works to talk about, but though that's my favorite moment Chris, why don't make yourself as a big moment for the episode you want to talk about.

[00:18:03] Look let's jump to the end because I want to discuss the quickly five getting the realization and then the the basically the culmination of the storylines and the ending.

[00:18:20] So it is the marigold fault and the derangles fault the creation of derango or marigold and the usage by reginald.

[00:18:32] The fact that the time line, the creation of this is what has caused incident after incident of apocalypse after apocalypse.

[00:18:43] Yes.

[00:18:44] One catch on that.

[00:18:46] The first apocalypse didn't happen until years later.

[00:18:56] So they caused the apocalypse but usually all the other times it's like this I was a apocalypse four days two days twenty-four hours.

[00:19:05] Yeah.

[00:19:06] So that was the one I was like wait hold on.

[00:19:09] But what's the cause by vanja finally coming into her parish at the time?

[00:19:16] Yes in the first one.

[00:19:17] In the first season that was the first apocalypse was caused by vanja finally having powers on the exploding out of her which broke the mood and killed the earth basically.

[00:19:29] So again I suppose you could trace this and say it was to do with marigold.

[00:19:34] That's fair.

[00:19:35] I think we had often said to live and it's kind of inspired by the Simpson's Bush.

[00:19:40] We've often said to live that the umbrella kind of be at the cause of insolution to all of life's

[00:19:44] apocalypse.

[00:19:47] So you can kind of trace it back and say yeah if it wasn't for them the world could be would not have a apocalypse at the level at least.

[00:19:55] There may be another apocalypse going but not because of the umbrella kind of me and not the level they have it.

[00:20:00] And so I kind of get the realization here.

[00:20:02] I kind of love how it was played out with five.

[00:20:05] It dejected really after the battle with the clans realizing they're not going to win it.

[00:20:12] He goes back into his safe place I guess into the into the timeline train systems subway system.

[00:20:19] And I thought it was a really good thing for him to have time away on his own.

[00:20:25] It feels like within character or five to just go, oh screw this I'm ice.

[00:20:30] You know, but some of the things that kind of led up to it as well.

[00:20:34] I thought was really well direct and really well written where Lyle and five are I back and everybody's kind of hugging Lyle when she arrives back.

[00:20:41] But not very many people are around there for five at all.

[00:20:45] You know they even even criticize them when he's being quite quiet you know you hear the background,

[00:20:49] Clive's going oh grandpa needs his nap you know.

[00:20:52] He doesn't have real family members just got siblings they all kind of critters.

[00:20:56] But at that point he's at it lowest and there's no one that five would be able to turn to and get support from that say,

[00:21:04] Whereas most of the other siblings have someone by their side and he's effectively just lost Lyle who was the closest of this group to them.

[00:21:13] No agreed and they just get worse.

[00:21:17] Because one of the whole it doesn't get worse and gets better than that he meets his best friend himself.

[00:21:23] Many many of himself.

[00:21:25] Many many.

[00:21:26] Because I was fun that was interesting to see they had they did like all these other five's.

[00:21:32] It's almost like they're restaurant at the end of the universe just like you.

[00:21:38] They've all given up so just this might as well one guy will be a chef.

[00:21:44] One guy will just sit in the paper like it's just fun to see and then the absolute crazy number of apocalypse is that.

[00:21:53] Happened and it's fun to see that there's just.

[00:21:58] They're all continuing now I would have loved to see some more variations like.

[00:22:04] Here's here's a five one leg here one eye right here's a five with like a crab monster right like all these different just crazy crazy versions of in very fun.

[00:22:16] They're getting probably still be filming as if he had to do that so he plays about 15 different versions of himself and they all look exactly the same.

[00:22:24] So literally looks like you just got around the table in the same costume he was wearing and film the other side of it just to call the edge just because I wanted I did want to take notes.

[00:22:32] So there the umbrella Academy shot at the universe 145,412 times we've only seen three of them.

[00:22:42] You sure right.

[00:22:42] That this point so they could have kept going for one yeah, yep could have had another another 10 seasons of other apocalypse is that it happened with with the umbrella Academy.

[00:22:52] And but I do like you know I like all the five so we're trying to put their heads together to work at what is wrong here and the five that's explaining to our five what's going on as effectively just say look look around the room here do you think this is what Einstein was talking about with the theory relativity with the idea of separate timelines you think that was what what is in his head that you would be sitting in a room.

[00:23:12] With 50 versions of yourself that is not what's happening clearly.

[00:23:17] What's wrong here is that there is more than one timeline and that should never have happened that's the realization that they've come to that the multiple timelines that's always been a feature of five story.

[00:23:27] Particularly all of the umbrella Academy it's five story had been around these multiple timelines that he's been traversing across that should never have happened.

[00:23:36] Yeah exactly.

[00:23:39] I enjoyed this as an explanation for it all.

[00:23:47] I can poke holes.

[00:23:48] Yeah, it's a hole.

[00:23:50] I really enjoyed it's like yeah they are the cause of the solution to all of the problems and in order to solve the final to be the final solution they are the solution to end all the apocalypse.

[00:24:06] To end and make everything right again the solution is the umbrella Academy.

[00:24:13] Yeah they need to go.

[00:24:15] They need to go.

[00:24:17] Yes cease to be forever to be deceased.

[00:24:22] I think go on for a while.

[00:24:24] No dad parents got your Chris.

[00:24:26] Yeah.

[00:24:27] You know again I would say that's the one I probably could poke more holes in but I'm not going to I just enjoyed the concept and enjoy the idea

[00:24:34] I don't really know how them dying of the claims in this one timeline where they're all together.

[00:24:39] Weights them out from all timelines but I love the visual of it.

[00:24:42] I love the way they showed the map in kind of a 3D version of all of the timelines as they were breaking back each of the timelines back to just one central timeline of that was so.

[00:24:53] It was so well realized and how you finish the show when you have six episodes to close the show but what did you think of Abigail and Reggie their conversation between the two of them where Abigail reveals the reason why she's turned on Reggie's plan.

[00:25:09] What do you think about that?

[00:25:10] I hate it.

[00:25:12] So this felt so strange to me.

[00:25:16] Sorry just pause if I was like Chris to do so I hate you when I ask you that question.

[00:25:21] Okay.

[00:25:21] I giggled.

[00:25:23] But I do hate you but I love you for what do we have this back.

[00:25:28] So this one grated slightly and that thinking this through I was trying to I get it she just she in her mind she was meant to die.

[00:25:38] It's her time to go.

[00:25:40] Yes.

[00:25:41] And her being brought back by Reginald.

[00:25:46] Basically in her mind was one thing to do.

[00:25:48] She was not aware of the other apocalypse or she maybe was aware of them but just there was no other pending apocalypse.

[00:25:56] Yeah.

[00:25:57] Like it wasn't that she was going to say she was essentially bringing about the apocalypse because she wanted to end.

[00:26:06] She wanted she felt that she shouldn't be there and she need to just end this universe because it was not right.

[00:26:13] So I was a bit like whoo.

[00:26:15] It's a very harsh piece to this so and again we don't know much about Abigail.

[00:26:23] This was kind of if Abigail had been like mother from season one in episode season two and in season three and season four then you get a similar to Ben you get this sense of through character is and their motivations.

[00:26:41] This just is for me felt somewhat I want to say anti-clamatic but that's even to me.

[00:26:51] It just felt we need an excuse for Abigail to be the reason the cleanse was happening.

[00:27:00] Yeah.

[00:27:01] Yeah.

[00:27:02] I know I know what you mean and I think when I think about seeing that we got from Abigail talking to the siblings earlier on in the season when they came.

[00:27:12] I think that's the same round to the house and she was talking to them like a real mother.

[00:27:16] She was kind of listening to them for the first time something that Reggie never had done and you have moments where she's really kind of calling out Reggie for pushing his agenda and not listening to any of their opinion is not listening to any of their ideas.

[00:27:31] I guess that's somewhere built in there that she is her own character and the only way we've seen Abigail since the beginning is through the eyes of Reggie.

[00:27:39] Who says, I couldn't get through my life after you died so my whole focus became bringing you back to life.

[00:27:46] So it's an interesting one and I know what you mean it's not taking anything away from your point but I kind of like the idea that we've only ever seen this goal of Reggie to bring back Abigail and we haven't had any of her personality and who she is.

[00:28:00] What kind of person she is or what kind of legit creature she is.

[00:28:05] And then when we find out who she is underneath it all she's going, I died you should have let me die because that was my punishment for creating marigolds.

[00:28:15] I was punished by the universe for bringing this thing into existence and you tried to go against the universe by bringing me back and I'm here to stop that.

[00:28:24] I kind of like that reveal in it's own way.

[00:28:27] Would have been nice to know more about Abigail but I do like that we've only perceived her through his opinion of who she was and what she meant to him as opposed to her being her own character until this moment here where she goes you should never have done that.

[00:28:39] I should never have brought marigold into the universe and you should absolutely not be bringing me back and rewarding me with a new life after everything I've caused.

[00:28:47] Which is kind of interesting.

[00:28:48] It feels very much like the open-hyper type thing which is I've created the ultimate weapon, the ultimate issue and I've my punishment is I am now she if I am the short of world.

[00:29:01] Yeah that should not be exactly.

[00:29:05] When you put it that way I understand I think it makes a lot of sense.

[00:29:09] I feel they probably in the least another five ten minutes just in the class.

[00:29:15] Yeah I think you know you're probably as we always do with superheroes and with that you show us that we watch you kind of expecting to have a villain in here.

[00:29:23] Is Abigail a villain because she's wiping out all these timelines and the people are there or is she behind it all is she the true hero because what the keepers have been saying since the beginning is if all of these are wiped out we all go back to our real timeline the real place we're supposed to exist in.

[00:29:37] And continue on with our lives. So is Abigail the real hero you know then really how do we were trying to stop.

[00:29:44] Apocalypse is after they created a apocalypse led by Reggie who all he wanted to achieve was bring back his wife who had created them all from the beginning and is Abigail the real hero here because she's going well actually.

[00:29:56] Oh we need to do this stop all this I go back to being dead and then the world can continue in that one true timeline so and probably because we're expecting to see a big most actual villain I think even mentioned that last week at Reggie whether he's working with Abigail.

[00:30:10] So it's kind of cool that it's actually Abigail being a really realistic character coming into her own at the end and going actually all your plans here with the umbrella academy all the things you did.

[00:30:21] To save me and get me back into the world you should never have done them and I'm going to work them all.

[00:30:26] But just allowing this plans to happen.

[00:30:29] That's very good.

[00:30:32] There you go that's my second.

[00:30:35] No let's give me some stuff to think about it's very different way of perceiving it.

[00:30:41] I will ask one question yes.

[00:30:44] Why is it to Rango why is Jennifer in the squid?

[00:30:48] That's not it's not it all and yeah I wonder if I wonder if we should have seen more of that you know ban having the squid inside him and the appearance of Jennifer inside the squid.

[00:30:59] I think you always said that there must be something there must be something that's in the script that talks about that no idea no idea at all maybe the squid because it's a giant squid maybe the squid ate up the Durango inside her was attracted to it's space grid I don't know.

[00:31:15] Yeah no idea we did see it.

[00:31:17] I was hoping we'd get that one that was the one I was like just give me this.

[00:31:21] Yeah, thinking and give me that one is Drango what is my goal of the same I was just yeah.

[00:31:28] It's it's said in dialogue isn't it but we don't really know how Jennifer arrived we know the marigold created the pregnant ladies who gave birth to the 43 kids with marigold inside and we've had that story all the way along this season the first time we see Jennifer arrive.

[00:31:44] And the way the cheer arrives is as a six or seven year old girl I should inside the squid already with Durango inside of her so maybe that's all the story is maybe she just arrived that way actually burst from a squid.

[00:32:00] I think it just happened at the age of seven I arrived you know from space in the giant space squid because the biggest squid ever found on earth right so maybe it's a space grid that transports her.

[00:32:10] Those space quids always the worst I guess until Gerard way writes that in to the comic book at some point in the future because he did say that the Jennifer incident is an incident the comic book that was referred to as the death of the band and it was never explained just what it was.

[00:32:25] In the same way in the comic books that they wanted to make sure there was included in the show so we got an explanation for a band died and which is this whole concept for the season but he there had I read somewhere now this may be completely made up in her so that this is not what he's Jennifer incident is yeah.

[00:32:44] He just said this is a version of Jennifer's exactly again as we as we said it last that's deficit.

[00:32:51] They've got loads of timelines that they could just say this is a Jennifer incident on this time life.

[00:32:55] Or in another timeline it may be a very different one in the comic book timeline we have a different version of us.

[00:33:01] So all that then culminates in this beautiful circle of the them essentially getting.

[00:33:11] Getting cleansed yes.

[00:33:16] There's a line given by Lila which is essentially thank you for letting me into your family.

[00:33:22] They didn't be part of your family that is 100% the writers allowing the viewers to be Lila absolutely.

[00:33:31] You have joined we have joined as part of the heart groups we are part of this group of the umbrella.

[00:33:38] Absolutely and so well delivered so well timed and just point into how I was one bit on that.

[00:33:49] Yeah, no I love that I think there's some lovely moments and you know I mentioned Lila being welcome back by all the members of the of her family and the members of the heart groups family when she returned from the timeline five not really getting that moment.

[00:34:01] But I loved in the circle that we have little moments between each the member of the family you know Diego saying to Lila you were right now I see who you are I thought that was a lovely moment at.

[00:34:12] I'm sorry Chris just know some of our listeners would want to make sure you got the line right the line from Lila thanks for accepting me into your weird family so as always there's a little bit of a little bit of a dig at the family which is the same that we see from place as well I love you guys your all I.

[00:34:26] And of course so you know you got to go to end with something like that so and of course with Victor and Allison who've had the kind of on and off friendship and throughout the last couple of seasons we do have Victor saying to Allison when Allison says I'm sorry you had to come down to Canada for this and Victor saying that no place I'd rather be this is exactly where I'm supposed to be so kind of mending their relationship before before they're gone at the end of the episode.

[00:34:52] And we do get Lila and Diego holding hands but a look of acceptance of thank you of so I don't know I couldn't it's an emotion but I can't put I can't fully describe between Lila and five.

[00:35:07] Yeah she reaches out towards him to say you know it's not that's not something that she's you know it's time now they're all going to go she's not holding anything against five for what he did at this stage it's you know she's back Diego's accepted her but that's it you know it's not this story and romantic story that's going to go on forever with Diego and Lila either this is the end and they're all they're all saying goodbye for the final time and it is a big moment after them all there was quite a lot of emotional to watch them say was it really yeah.

[00:35:36] It was beautiful ending for me that's like and I suppose that's why my biggest moment is this which is just it's a pointy ending to a series four years of a series.

[00:35:49] Yeah yeah like it does wrap it in a boat it ends with them doing the ultimate sacrifice to save the universe of world and everything in between absolutely.

[00:36:03] It's just there's no they don't return on the other side because I think that's the biggest for me that's the biggest kind of.

[00:36:18] Stamp of what the umbrella caught me was which was not always.

[00:36:23] Marvel roses DC's Zack Snyder kind of depressing it's this beautiful.

[00:36:30] Yeering angle both you get the quirky weird of like I'm man but you also get the depressingly side by man or a Superman.

[00:36:40] You get that in the to both so you do get them saving the world and everyone is back and everyone's free and the kids are safe and the family safe.

[00:36:51] But the family is no longer available. The family is no longer there and all you have in.

[00:36:58] Indeed is some marigolds under a trick.

[00:37:03] Yeah which is very blossom yes.

[00:37:06] Yeah the little post credits scene just in case anybody missed it's after the after the photographs of all of the team behind the scenes we have the the marigolds and I love how they could group them as well.

[00:37:17] They had the seven members of the of the umbrella caught me and then just one off to the side which is wireless so they have all ages well lovely.

[00:37:25] That's kind of the big moments from the upper really it is all the best all about the finale.

[00:37:31] Or was kind of surprised that we had Abigail and Reggie sitting on the bench as she explained to the plan that we just have to let this happen and then the cleanse monster just eats.

[00:37:38] The dark as so it's quite surprised that that's the way they went out there very surprised that the thermos who'd been quite central characters during in gene been quite central characters throughout the season that we lost.

[00:37:51] The last episode and then he murdered his wife in front of all the the key present this episode.

[00:37:56] As they're all kind of calling out going but didn't she set up this movement so can you kill her then she's gone against the movement you know.

[00:38:03] I was quite surprised that that's how their story ended that it was just kind of okay that was just to explain I guess about these different timelines but really behind it all it's Abigail and what she's planning to do and she's just planning to let the cleanse happen.

[00:38:17] Yeah, I was kind of hoping that like the gene and gene one of the genes would actually have been Abigail along or something more along that lines because then you would have Abigail behind the keepers.

[00:38:32] But it just seems like they were their own thing anyway.

[00:38:37] Yeah, I know to be in you kind of think that maybe was Abigail leaving breadcrumbs to encourage the keepers along.

[00:38:43] Exactly. I wonder I'm you know I'm not mad at this honestly but I wonder whether Nick Offerman or Megamilali was supposed to be in the show and they they pitched for the two of them to be gene and gene fibidote.

[00:38:54] As I'm already couple so they could work together on the show I wonder if they pitched the idea of having the two of them together in the show.

[00:39:01] They've been fantastic that had some amazing scenes throughout the show and I'm really love seeing the two of them work together but.

[00:39:07] I know what you mean it would make more sense in the writers room to go well.

[00:39:10] Dr. Gene Thibodo is one character and Abigail in the skin of somebody else's leading this group and we don't know who she is by the end of the season, you know I just wonder whether they just pitched that.

[00:39:20] So they could work together and why not. It's great to have them.

[00:39:23] No exactly.

[00:39:24] And we wouldn't have had our dance sequence this season if we didn't have June, June, September so.

[00:39:29] I was hoping for one final scene.

[00:39:33] They did do a not did you get the not in the room itself in the the mansion kind of but the not to it is the when eventually breaks down to the one timeline we got a cover version of I think we're alone there which was the original dance sequence from season one.

[00:39:49] So a little cover version to just score the that swash you know that's what this group are like back in the first season so how they've been done sequenced together.

[00:40:00] That's okay that's fair.

[00:40:03] Yeah, there's obviously a few more tiny little things that we have.

[00:40:07] I mentioned that the original kind of being original throughout this kind of being pushing back up until he meets Jean he is still that take the shot doing all like being we're sure again.

[00:40:21] He is just forever an a whole in his own way.

[00:40:27] Yeah, and I'm wondering because Ben is separated from Jennifer.

[00:40:33] He knocks a Victor and that's when that's when Reggie says to take the shot because he shot by Reggie Jennifer then merges with Ben it's not 100% clear but is that Reggie causing the plans causing the two of those.

[00:40:48] Yeah, because he said take the shot and then Ben sees the bullet and throws Victor out of the way.

[00:40:58] Yeah, which then causes Jennifer to reach eight to Ben.

[00:41:03] Merges together.

[00:41:04] I call this that.

[00:41:06] So yeah, he is the cause of the apocalypse in this one.

[00:41:18] So let's he releases the miracle.

[00:41:21] Yeah, so it is his fault.

[00:41:22] Yeah, exactly.

[00:41:26] Any other kind of bitter notes from yourself or any moments you want to call out?

[00:41:31] I think the notes really are about the call backs because it's a final episode of the final season.

[00:41:36] One of the ones I really liked was five right in the subway when he goes off on his own.

[00:41:41] It's to the song by no galer and the flight pipeline birds back in season one of the show, the episode which had five on his own after the apocalypse in episode five season one.

[00:41:52] It was also scored by no galer and the flying birds which are just things a nice little touch that you be able to have a song by their meet time under scoring five.

[00:42:00] I don't know who the milk other.

[00:42:02] I find birds fans are in the show, but it was kind of nice to have it.

[00:42:07] It's got a very specific type of voice and it just works really well for those scenes.

[00:42:12] So really liked that.

[00:42:13] And then I guess the big reference at the end in the one timeline as that we have so many cameos from cast members from the past.

[00:42:22] We see the sueds playing for his be which is quite cool after we see Lala's family and Claire there were the murderous sueds that we saw back in the next season too.

[00:42:31] Maybe even season one.

[00:42:33] We also see Hazeln and Agdus in there walking down the path we see the handler talking on a cell phone after she'd gone for her run while stretching.

[00:42:41] Grace is there mom you mentioned mother from season one too, you actually see pushing a baby in the store or so this time she's not a robot she's an actual mother in the real world.

[00:42:51] We see her of a dog.

[00:42:53] Her who of course plays Pogo in the show as well.

[00:42:57] Her and Doss worked for the commission interestingly we hear five point out to two himself that he's the one that set up the commissioner one of the five set up the commission as well.

[00:43:07] So they were the one star and stopped the apocalypse that was quite cool.

[00:43:09] He was the man in the iron load.

[00:43:12] Yes, yes exactly.

[00:43:13] Yeah, that we saw Bush but just kind of calling that in the episode.

[00:43:18] Finally we we also see Gabriel by there.

[00:43:20] He's doing the sketch right next to her and Doss so he gets to be in the show the illustrator of the original umbrella academy as an artist in the episode which is quite cool.

[00:43:29] I do also or I have also heard rumors.

[00:43:33] I didn't see it myself, so I can't confirm but I have heard rumors that five's Manicon wife is also in the scene.

[00:43:41] But it's not here.

[00:43:44] The Manicon that they used she's kind of peering out from mine to tree apparently and one of the scenes.

[00:43:48] I have to check back and see that again Bush.

[00:43:50] But I love that.

[00:43:51] I love this idea apparently that didn't tell any of the members of the cast and given many scripts or anything what they should be doing and what they should be saying.

[00:43:59] They just kind of gave them costumes said play in the park like you're playing in the park and the only people that were aware of what the story line for the show where it was.

[00:44:08] What's the family of a lilad dea gas family in clear that the other people that knew what was going on all the rest of the cast that came back from previous seasons had no real idea what was what they were doing and what it was for Bush.

[00:44:20] But it's for the one timeline.

[00:44:22] Yes, the universal timeline which is a nice way to end which is that's it.

[00:44:28] Like this is there is the sacred timeline.

[00:44:32] We're here at that before.

[00:44:33] Well, yeah, actually you know keep a note of this umbrella kind of events because in a couple of years time Marvel is going to be doing exactly the same thing.

[00:44:40] This happened in the comic books when they had all these multiple timelines multiple multi versus as they as they called them in in Marvel.

[00:44:47] Where they wiped them all night went back to one central timeline.

[00:44:50] So let's see how Marvel decide to do it and if you get.

[00:44:54] Yep, what the doom is going to be coming after the season or isn't it right?

[00:44:58] It is so the Avengers doomsday where we see Rob De Jr. as Dr. Doom and then the Avengers sequel world.

[00:45:06] Yeah, yeah, and then after that we'll be back to one timeline as if what we expect when you're in a real timeline supposedly.

[00:45:13] Anyway, but this is nothing to do with Marvel universe for back to and Brother Cazby Chris overall wanted you to think of the finale of the umbrella academy.

[00:45:20] I really enjoyed it.

[00:45:23] There's definitely a few holes.

[00:45:24] Yeah, and it definitely feels somewhat I have questions on some of it and those were mostly just the holes.

[00:45:32] But as a whole for just this episode I enjoyed it because it closed.

[00:45:40] It gave me satisfaction and a lot of things and it was very pointing where needed to be pointing into some motion when need to be emotional and it just really highlighted each of the characters in a way that was good.

[00:45:53] That is their character.

[00:45:57] As a book end for this season, I really enjoyed it.

[00:46:02] It made sense from the beginning of season four to the end of season four.

[00:46:09] It was a good story in its entirety.

[00:46:19] As a book end to the series, I really enjoyed it.

[00:46:24] I love that because if we told you could now watch this season one to season four and it actually does make sense from beginning to end.

[00:46:39] There is a connected story.

[00:46:41] Now, probably it wasn't what they're always going to do and yes, it's been ups and downs as with any other series.

[00:46:48] But they really did tell what the story that they wanted to do.

[00:46:56] They put the end on the story they wanted to do.

[00:46:59] And they didn't leave a door open.

[00:47:02] Now again, yes.

[00:47:05] Any writer could kind of go in and go.

[00:47:08] And from those eight, married, suddenly a Swiss comes out of Pauline and creates a lot of people.

[00:47:20] Yes, exactly you can do it that way.

[00:47:22] But in theory, they're exactly where the cause of and solution to all the apocalypse.

[00:47:29] Absolutely.

[00:47:30] And I think that's just a pointy and nice way of putting the kind of bow and so I really enjoyed this episode.

[00:47:38] The season and the series.

[00:47:40] What about yourself, Derek?

[00:47:41] Yeah, I'm really enjoyed this overall.

[00:47:44] One of the things with this season is that we haven't had as much time to spend with each of the individual characters getting those individual episodes like we got in season one two and three.

[00:47:54] So some of the characters have felt that they've had a lot less screen time like twice for example who's been probably one of my favourite characters since the beginning.

[00:48:02] But to put this kind of caper on the show, which was surprising in a couple of ways I think the Abigail reveal was a massive surprise and how she as she revealed what her overall plan is, which is just a white base.

[00:48:15] So they are the plans to work and wipe out the universe because Reggie wouldn't even listen to her opinion over the years.

[00:48:22] I thought that was a really good reveal.

[00:48:25] But closing it out at the umbrella academy had to wipe themselves as well as the age of old timelines as well.

[00:48:29] Not only to say we're sacrificing ourselves to stop an apocalypse, it's we are going to sacrifice ourselves to stop all apocalypse and return it back to a timeline where none of us existed.

[00:48:39] I thought it makes so much sense for the show, but it is really sad and really well handled as well.

[00:48:45] They are still backed by the way till they get covered by the plans of course because there are those kind of siblings boss really enjoyed it.

[00:48:52] Thought that was lovely moments really emotional and yet to close it out with this one timeline and bring back so many of the other characters to just a normal day, which is not which is unaffected by my regal part from the margotals they're growing out in the quarter.

[00:49:06] But yeah I really liked it that thought it was a lovely way to end it at the series and I can kind of see if you're a big fan of these characters that can kind of see how ending a show where all of them are gone.

[00:49:15] Probably would work, it will be up the wrong way so I think we're going to have a little bit of feedback some people are a little bit more unhappy with the show than then others and I'm sure there's lots of people out there that would have loved to have a fifth season but if you know your story is going to end.

[00:49:28] Given an ending that's definitive and close it like this that's what I much prefer.

[00:49:33] Yeah no the ultimate sacrifice that's the thing they are the ultimate heroes because they made the ultimate attack exactly exactly that's where I see this but you spoke of some feedback.

[00:49:44] So let's get some message from the future in our feedback section but don't forget if you have liked this episode,

[00:49:51] if you like what we talked about in the brand academy there is all four seasons of us talking going discussing every episode.

[00:49:58] But you can head on over to TV podcasts industry.com and check out each and every episode.

[00:50:04] All of the other shows we are covering there and if you really enjoyed what we covered over the last four seasons head on over to patreon.com slash TV podcast industries.

[00:50:14] Where you can support us monthly for any amount or you can do a one-on donation by head now go to bibliography.com slash TVPI and buy dairy coffee as he tours away the wee areas of what will be editing the apocalypse out of all the mistakes.

[00:50:31] Absolutely a huge thank you to all of the supporters over there on patreon and on the bimey coffee of the last couple of years been really good to have you with us for our coverage of umbrella academy.

[00:50:43] And yeah all those of you who sent in feedback to us all of those that I've liked the post share the posts said said you're a little bit of a bit about the podcast as well and be appreciate all of them.

[00:50:52] Thank you so much for that.

[00:50:53] So let's get into some feedback from our wonderful fellow academy alumni's.

[00:50:57] We'll start off with coffee vodka who has some feedback on the season overall and he just sent him one for the for the episode because we didn't know what we were going to be recording.

[00:51:05] So thanks very much for that coffee vodka. He says greetings fellow self sacrificing defenders.

[00:51:10] First he congratulations to Derek and John you're wedding hope at all went well speaking of love it turns out this was what this season was all about in most of its variations up to the team.

[00:51:20] And so for the end both with the credit the only continuity error was an Abigail's cleansing of both the merry gold and derango elements and the timeline it should have only affected this timeline even if this was very baby with bath water.

[00:51:32] Once the timeline became as branched off convoluted and various as it had you would have to reproduce the same scenario in every timeline outside of the main one according to logic and the five's much easier not to have introduced merry gold via her side persona at all but then there'd be no show I guess still nice to see the gang one last time.

[00:51:49] Even if they had to introduce me to something I'd managed to avoid for nine years for that may they be sent to baby shark hell.

[00:51:56] My favorite moment of the season gene and genes dance what about yours four five filled delicatessence eight or five from me piece and take care of coffee and vodka great stuff thanks coffee vodka Chris what do you think what's it have a big favorite moment of the season so far.

[00:52:10] Mine is just the introduction of the characters again in the episode one yeah so more just even seeing five in the.

[00:52:19] Coming out of there the a with the the keepers anonymous meating and then going back to the CIA yeah.

[00:52:28] And just getting that real that will maybe for me just like oh yeah the makes sense of the.

[00:52:34] The absolutely yeah loved that he re ripped off as terrible most I should swap on the became a running joke for the whole season.

[00:52:40] That's great yeah just you know there's so many great moments with these characters of course read the season I would love to be done sequence there's no way they could have fitted in the cut think of a reason why you would have all of the men are doing it and sequence even.

[00:52:52] You know even like it in the first season you could literally have done it if you really wanted to have had them dancing in the circle.

[00:53:00] Maybe something as the universe came in but then lose all the other exactly aspects of that emotional kind of ending.

[00:53:09] Yeah so we could watch what the dancing give.

[00:53:13] So dancing take it the way exactly at least regard gene and gene dancing to that chance into share which was a which is a good fun see as well.

[00:53:21] And but you see a couple of us as exactly same same question as I do the cleansing of this timeline by the plans and it wouldn't wipe everything back to all of its previous time.

[00:53:31] And so yes boss I'm going to accept it that's what they chose to do so the only thing I can think of is that in all the other timelines the derango maragold never touch.

[00:53:42] And the derango a maragold when they touch is like a nuclear bomb for all time.

[00:53:51] Maybe that's the only way you can really explain it.

[00:53:55] Yeah but again that's me making my own head cannon for it which is yeah.

[00:54:00] Because I didn't say it yeah this is effectively they were saying that it emerged at the dragonwood maragold Ben and they were the only other pieces of maragold left in this universe where the two had me had met so.

[00:54:13] We'll all pull together and once it's taken all the maragold from this universe it'll all return back right with that is ever having existed.

[00:54:21] I guess is the way right.

[00:54:23] So yeah but great stuff thanks coffee vodka.

[00:54:26] Thanks coffee vodka next up we have a voicemail on the season from Lara willy swing who at this to say because I didn't want y'all to strain your voices reading my very long feedback.

[00:54:38] I had a lot to bend about.

[00:54:40] Cheers Lara.

[00:54:42] Greetings and salutations friends across the pond this is Lara first off congratulations to Chris on your wee babe and congratulations to John and Derek on your new visuals.

[00:54:53] I'm so happy for all of you.

[00:54:56] It was a delight to hear you guys cover the final season of umbrella academy.

[00:55:02] Unfortunately I'd have to say that your podcast was more of a delight than the final season itself.

[00:55:08] I don't know if I will be in the minority or majority in my opinion but personally both me and my daughter found this an uninspired season at a really disappointing ending for our favorite cast of characters.

[00:55:23] First off the absolute character assassination of some of my favorite characters that being clowns five and lila.

[00:55:30] I'm not a clown who was always a chaotic character but had so much charm and charisma goes from a sheepish germaphob to completely off the rails sex slave who's being trafficked by his drug dealer.

[00:55:44] I mean I realized he didn't want the bear the marigold but I don't feel like giving him his powers back was going to drive him so off the rails.

[00:55:54] I mean I felt like he was in a different psychological place that he could handle his his on powers but apparently not.

[00:56:03] And after that we don't get to see much of class not as not much as done with his character and he in fact spends an entire episode in a doggy coffin which must have been a very big dog because it fits a full grown man.

[00:56:18] Then we get this mess with fivesla.

[00:56:20] I realized that time is passed and five is no longer a 14 year old but come on.

[00:56:26] Lila has known this boy since he was a teenager and he's her brother-in-law.

[00:56:31] Okay, I know meant we he's probably 60 or something but oh no I felt so uncomfortable and so cringy.

[00:56:40] I mean I know we have sibling attachments via Luther and Allison and it's not unusual for this family but it just left me so uncomfortable.

[00:56:50] And also Lila seems to have no deep feelings for her children in the earlier episodes.

[00:56:56] She seems to be alone this boring suburban life she's been leaving but when she has to lose her family in the end,

[00:57:04] she's absolutely crushed and I understand that might be from the seven years of living without them as well.

[00:57:11] But we get this very emotional scene from her as her family leaves and yet Diego we see nothing from and in my mind he seemed like much more

[00:57:20] involved father and we get to see like none of the emotions that he's feeling in losing his family.

[00:57:28] We get no empathetic scene for him.

[00:57:32] He doesn't even get to say goodbye to his family really.

[00:57:37] Also the storyline just felt all over the place with no clear direction.

[00:57:41] Some of the family had similar but altered powers and some had completely new powers in the case of Allison and Lila.

[00:57:49] They kind of had their powers but were maybe powered up and then their powers just completely changed.

[00:57:56] I don't know what was going on and to me it felt like the powers were just there to serve the story.

[00:58:01] We never find out how our group's life was returned to life.

[00:58:05] We never find out what the heck happened to Luther's love of his life Sloan.

[00:58:10] Did he even mention her this entire season?

[00:58:12] I don't feel like he did.

[00:58:15] Why did Ben make it to this world and she didn't?

[00:58:19] Ah don't know don't care that was last season.

[00:58:23] Lastly the whole J.R. Huying ending of it all.

[00:58:26] For my friends across the pond or the young folks who've never heard of it,

[00:58:30] J.R. Huying was a main character on the American soap opera Dallas who was shot in a season finale

[00:58:35] and it created this major cliffhanger with the ubiquitous question of who shot J.R.

[00:58:40] Well when we finally found out who the killer was,

[00:58:45] we come to find out that it was all a dream that his brother Bobby had had and it never happened.

[00:58:51] That's how descending made me feel.

[00:58:53] It never happened and everything we saw was a dream.

[00:58:57] I did like getting to see all of our excellent side characters at the end.

[00:59:01] Happily enjoying a non-apocalyptic world but I feel like the ending basically said to us these characters,

[00:59:09] we all loved where a bunch of screw ups and mistakes and the world is better off without them.

[00:59:16] Maybe a little morbid and nihilistic, maybe Derek and Chris you have a more positive spin on the finale.

[00:59:23] But I didn't like it and it just made me want to go back to season one and see happier

[00:59:28] or at least existent times for our missfit hard dreams family.

[00:59:35] But thank you guys for covering the series nonetheless.

[00:59:37] I always love to hear your takes whether sweet or sour and until the next apocalypse.

[00:59:45] Thanks so much Lara.

[00:59:45] As I said Chris I do there was going to be some some country opinions to our opinion on the show.

[00:59:50] I have a joy this season.

[00:59:52] I do not have any challenge or any issue with anybody who would feel this way about the show ending

[00:59:58] with the kids being wiped out from the entire universe and their history.

[01:00:04] I think I said a right up front of this episode that was a really sad line where they were going to sacrifice themselves.

[01:00:11] Make the greatest sacrifice and then told nobody will remember you will never have existed.

[01:00:16] We're going to wipe you out completely from the timelines it felt like a really sad line but I take it like that.

[01:00:20] That's written into the story.

[01:00:22] That is them saying this is the end of your time and it's a really sad way to tell them and everything that you did won't have been seen by anybody else.

[01:00:32] But I think in this story that's kind of what you expect they've moved in and out of timeline.

[01:00:36] They moved in and out of different time periods over the course of the last couple of seasons.

[01:00:43] And I've gone on notice by everybody other than their original actions as the costume and umbrella academy.

[01:00:48] Whereas now what they're saying is even that's going to be wiped from the timeline.

[01:00:53] Yeah, I could understand the way it was because this.

[01:00:58] This is the joy of having this podcast.

[01:01:00] I get it with Derek and I discuss using sometimes he sees some of my opinion and see some of his or we just kind of come to agree.

[01:01:06] I see some of your rational thing I do.

[01:01:12] I think the different lenses on it, I think for me I think it's less of who shot J.R.ing and more just taking a stance in the story.

[01:01:22] And it's more not that the world is better off with age, the hard griefs and these groups of things.

[01:01:29] And that they're no longer there. It is that they have in order to save the world or worlds and for all of us in this kid to survive for the lilies, children to survive and her family.

[01:01:42] They must make that and for everyone else.

[01:01:45] They must make that.

[01:01:47] But they don't do it alone.

[01:01:49] They do it as the family units and they do it as a group of.

[01:01:56] And they do it as a group of people who hate each other and love each other all the more.

[01:02:02] And then making that is what for me makes the perfect ending.

[01:02:07] And again, the cynician me says they're no longer in it so they if they don't have to decide to make another series.

[01:02:16] And season on Bradley got me too with the, well, institute.

[01:02:21] They can replace the actors with just different miss fits.

[01:02:26] Yeah, I keep using miss fits because miss fits is probably she in other shelves about two pairs.

[01:02:32] And they can do different actors and different parasites and things and it doesn't feel like it's destroyed that.

[01:02:39] And like this for me was, yeah, like I can understand you feeling that and I think that's the interesting thing.

[01:02:49] Everything is both all true and both different.

[01:02:54] Your view take on how they've played it is different than mine, but again I think they're both valid.

[01:03:01] Yeah, I just would like to see.

[01:03:04] Like I see like getting happy as like moving on from when she thinks her family is dead and her husband is dead.

[01:03:12] But then jumping straight back to her husband because she finds out he's a live end.

[01:03:18] Yeah, kind of thing like one day afterwards absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

[01:03:22] And that could be interesting you mentioned Chris about a possible spin-offs and possible future versions and if they would ever come back to the umbrella kind of me I think it's pretty much definitive that by the time it got to the last season of umbrella kind of the viewership and gone to that point where Netflix were saying.

[01:03:36] We're going to close this age it was once a big show for us.

[01:03:39] We're going to have this as our final season and in fact, as far as I remember there was talk about the sparrow Academy spin-off at one point which is interesting again because of as you mentioned in your feedback Lara.

[01:03:50] Sloan isn't in this season as are none of the other members of the sparrow Academy and I believe there was talk about having a sparrow Academy spin-off which would have told the story of what happened to the rest of the of those Academy members which has never been canceled now and now I'm not going to happen but.

[01:04:04] I guess that's part of the reason why it was kept separate.

[01:04:08] I did think by the end of the season if we were going to have a resolution where the kids were alive or the umbrella Academy stayed alive.

[01:04:14] We would have had Luther reunited with Sloan and he did mention it in the first episode he did mention that you know.

[01:04:21] To Diego when he bemoans living that suburban lifestyle he said well, I wish I was able to have that on my Sloan that would have been all I wanted.

[01:04:27] But she's gone and least you've got lila at least you've got your wife and your kids might not be the perfect life but at least you got you've got one, you know.

[01:04:37] And by the end of the season the arc of Luther in the season is that he's he is able to accomplish and achieve great things even though he's a stripper living and everyone down here.

[01:04:48] That's the moment that he has with Diego at the end of the season.

[01:04:50] I totally get your point about.

[01:04:53] Lila being the one that gets to say goodbye to her family.

[01:04:57] I do think that is her being away for seven years.

[01:05:00] Absence makes the harcro founder.

[01:05:01] I guess is the thing with Lila, you know, she does say to Diego she will never stand in front of her family and mone about them and mone about the fact that she's living the suburban life.

[01:05:11] She keeps that to herself and creates this other life where she's invested in the keepers.

[01:05:16] That's separate from that family because she has to live her life day by day and experience in the same things that he is.

[01:05:22] But it doesn't excuse her running off with the family taking them to the trade and then coming back and Diego going so are they all safe?

[01:05:29] Yeah, okay, off we go and that's kind of all he says you know, he doesn't have a moment where he says goodbye and is really sad about it.

[01:05:36] The fact that he won't be spending eternity with the family.

[01:05:38] But I don't know part of that scene is Lila making that decision that she is going to take them away and she may not come back.

[01:05:46] She may go and join them all even though that might spoil the apocalypse, right? That's the argument she thinks she'll run away with them take them into the timeline.

[01:05:55] So boy and not come back.

[01:05:58] That's why five goes down and convinces her to come back so it's not like a big farewell send them off on the train to their happy destination.

[01:06:06] She doesn't know what's going to happen and she thinks she's going to run away with them and stay with them.

[01:06:11] It's only when five goes down and convinces her to come back because the plan wouldn't have succeeded if it wasn't everybody that marigold inside them.

[01:06:18] That's what we're told.

[01:06:20] So yeah, I can totally see it.

[01:06:23] I'm sorry for them that the final season didn't hit with you but I like to let's a caper on the show.

[01:06:31] Yeah, agreed.

[01:06:32] But thanks for the voice, Melon.

[01:06:33] I absolutely see your followers somewhere in the other shows like Agatha all along coming very soon.

[01:06:38] Absolutely.

[01:06:39] Actually, I know and I would love as a big, a big, um, Sandman fans.

[01:06:43] So hopefully you'll be following as long when one Sandman returns next year as well.

[01:06:48] Thanks, Laura. Over onto Facebook, Chris.

[01:06:50] Yes.

[01:06:51] First up we have some feedback from John Daniel who this is a say, what a lovely ending.

[01:06:56] I was so sad it's over but that was a fantastic story.

[01:06:59] Thanks, John.

[01:07:00] Yeah.

[01:07:01] So sad it's over but what is it?

[01:07:04] It's better to have loved and lost than never loved at all.

[01:07:07] There you go.

[01:07:08] Absolutely.

[01:07:08] The end, that's the end.

[01:07:09] The fact that we had it even for four seasons is amazing.

[01:07:13] Absolutely.

[01:07:14] Thanks so much John and I do have some feedback in from Dr. Bob Phillips on the final episode as well.

[01:07:18] He says, what's the whole of the umbrella kind of me full of Sand,

[01:07:21] if you're signifying nothing because like the eternal serpent, the end, eight the beginning.

[01:07:26] Absolutely not.

[01:07:27] The finale took us back to the stars through the lives and the not normal family they have become,

[01:07:31] to an acknowledged and accepting death.

[01:07:34] It showed us good, if agonizing separation from those we love, preparation for the years ahead

[01:07:38] and memorializing the time they had left.

[01:07:41] And we got place in a cage doing a real time reaction video of popcorn to the crumbling of the love triangle.

[01:07:46] And perhaps just for Chris, Pogo showed up at the very end to bracket the whole run.

[01:07:50] It was gorgeous even if the cleanse that Special Effects did throw me a little bit.

[01:07:54] Thanks, Dr. Bob.

[01:07:55] Yeah, you've got the same question. The Chris has a bit of Special Effects.

[01:07:59] I do wonder it's interesting that the did spend so much money on this and both

[01:08:03] yourself are Chris mentioning the Special Effects for the Plads didn't really work for you.

[01:08:08] But yeah, at great point there we didn't mention about Pogo doing the final voice over at the end saying

[01:08:12] everybody's here just celebrating a normal day as well.

[01:08:16] Yeah, nice little touch there having him in there.

[01:08:18] And I think what the last face we see is the actual play to replace her as well.

[01:08:22] So yeah, nice little rubberist moment in the episode.

[01:08:26] Thanks Dr. Bob for your thoughts and thanks for sending in your thoughts and through it, Susan as well.

[01:08:29] And we also have some feedback in from Marie Eichel who says,

[01:08:32] So many great parts of the finale five of the subway dinner with the other five's figuring it all out.

[01:08:36] It was fantastic.

[01:08:37] Loved the whole family gathering for Chris, but it's not trying hard to beat normal.

[01:08:41] Seeing the emotional journey journey for Diego of appreciating his life to the sadness anger of almost losing

[01:08:46] Lila to five.

[01:08:47] The ending was beautiful and sad.

[01:08:49] I feel like Lila was speaking for all the fans when she said, thank you for letting me be

[01:08:53] a part of your weird family.

[01:08:54] Really miss this show.

[01:08:56] Thanks, Marie.

[01:08:57] Thanks Marie. And yeah, as I that's what I call it, and as soon as that line was said, I was like,

[01:09:03] Oh, that was for as a proxy for the audience exactly exactly.

[01:09:08] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:09:09] But a huge thank you to you, all of our wonderful listeners for joining us and joining

[01:09:13] our family are weird family of podcasts.

[01:09:15] Chris, it is very weird.

[01:09:18] Yeah, it's such a pleasure.

[01:09:19] Over the last four years to be covering this show, especially when you're Chris and thanks so much for bringing it to us.

[01:09:25] I wouldn't have been covering the umbrella academy for wasn't for Chris saying I'm what you know of the comic books

[01:09:30] and that he wants to take cover this show.

[01:09:33] So I'm delighted to make a part of our family of podcasts that we've covered over the years.

[01:09:37] I could have been worse.

[01:09:38] We could have I could have really pushed you to cover Jupiter's ending.

[01:09:42] The tracks which came out at the same time.

[01:09:44] And was bought the rights were bought at the same time by Netflix.

[01:09:47] Yeah, that's a whole other show.

[01:09:51] Well we've said we did watch the screeners for that and decided it wasn't for us.

[01:09:55] The image of time it takes to podcast that show.

[01:09:57] So thankfully the umbrella academy has been well worth our time over the last couple of years.

[01:10:02] 100% but yes, thank you Academy and I'm like as always as a pleasure.

[01:10:05] But do follow us over a TV podcast industry dot com and come over to some of the shows.

[01:10:11] We do a host of shows.

[01:10:12] Everything from Lord of the Rings rings of power to the MCU stuff, the films and the upcoming show.

[01:10:20] I thought along if you're a Star Wars fan we've loads of Star Wars animated stuff and we recently covered accolades in one

[01:10:26] on the only season of that life but it goes maybe they decide to bring it back.

[01:10:32] I don't think so maybe.

[01:10:34] Yeah, it's just the recent space of constellations of LGBTQ plus shows like umbrella academy itself.

[01:10:39] You know this is this is the new world.

[01:10:41] I went live through the 90s there were tons of shows for loads of diverse people back in the 90s and then they just started to cancel it all and make you back to your standard shows and it seems like we're going back through that again.

[01:10:52] And that's who that cycle.

[01:10:53] I get rid of all that a very show that doesn't make us enough money.

[01:10:55] We have to make it for middle America, six percent of the population or all those people who fall asleep in front of the TV and keep the advertising.

[01:11:03] So that's where it's going.

[01:11:05] That's the fortune.

[01:11:05] That is this is the way unfortunately, but remember it is secure and these shows diversity will come by and then about 10 or 15 more years.

[01:11:14] Yeah, apparently.

[01:11:15] Yes, unfortunately.

[01:11:16] But until that point you can cover the good shows that we do cover.

[01:11:20] Yes, we pick good shows for everyone.

[01:11:22] Yes, we do.

[01:11:22] And we will end on a high by saying if you haven't make sure you read the comment books they're okay.

[01:11:27] Very different put do read them if you enjoy the.

[01:11:29] You enjoy reading.

[01:11:30] You come if you don't enjoy reading.

[01:11:34] You need to come because it's just lots of pictures too.

[01:11:36] Some good.

[01:11:36] It's the best of both worlds.

[01:11:38] Absolutely absolutely and then and of course thank you so much for joining us.

[01:11:42] We'll talk to you again next time.

[01:11:43] Yes, thank you so much for joining us and there is no next time but there is a world with how does.

[01:11:50] That's always an extra time until you podcast it is just Chris.

[01:11:52] Just not in this particular podcast for you.

[01:11:54] That's all exactly.

[01:11:56] Yeah, we are we are going the way of the heart.

[01:11:59] No, it's because then we'd be wiping all the episodes that we've already released.

[01:12:03] They're all starting at the last day there.

[01:12:05] I promise I won't wipe any of you.

[01:12:07] But of course we will talk to you next time on TV podcast industry.

[01:12:10] And since it's the final episode of the Embrailer Academy will leave you with the full version of the theme for our.

[01:12:14] Or rather kind of repulsed cast which has always been emotional blockbuster by Raphael Cruz and thanks so much to Raphael for making this tune.

[01:12:22] And I'm anxious to use it for the podcast.

[01:12:24] Bye.

[01:12:29] Thank you.