Lanterns Episode 3 Review

[00:00:00] This is Lanterns: from TV Podcast Industries, we're back for the third episode of Lanterns Outcast.

[00:01:11] Lanterns Outcast, I'm one of your hosts Derek. Hello there fellow Lanterns, I am one of your other hosts John. And that's it for this week, just the two of us on the third episode on Fort Leaport Chris got taken ill in between last week and this week, he was really excited to come back especially for an origin story episode like we have here in Episode 3. So I hope you get better soon Chris, we know you'll be back with us as soon as you can be.

[00:01:35] Yes absolutely, but it will just be myself and Derek for our spoiler filled discussion of Episode 3 of Lanterns called Outcast. Before we get into all the episode details here and our initial thoughts, just a quick reminder,

[00:01:53] for our fellow Lanterns to pop on over to the website at tvpodcastindustries.com to subscribe to any blue, green or white Lantern podcast player of your choice. Reminder that we do have our Rushville Redneck bar quiz going on as well.

[00:02:15] So we'll be coming out with our third question in the pub quiz series where you can get your hand on some goodies and send all your answers into feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com after our eighth and final question of the pub quiz series. Yeah absolutely. Send them all in together, you can also send your feedback at that email as well.

[00:02:42] Yeah, and if you're missing any questions that we've given out so far, pop on over to the website at tvpodcastindustries.com. I have put up the page finally where the first two questions are listed up there. Or you can go listen to the first two episodes if you want to as well. But yeah, as John said, the third question coming up later in the episode. We hope you're going to enjoy joining us for our pub quiz. Yes, but Derek, what are some of the episode details for this third episode? Well, the showrunners for this show of course are Chris Mundy, Tom King and Damon Lindelof.

[00:03:12] The writer for this episode is Vanessa Baden who co-wrote last week's episode along with Chris Mundy, but this is her episode of the show here. We talked about all of her previous work on last week's episode. This episode is directed by Stephen Williams. He directed an episode of loads of shows that we've covered here on the podcast, including an episode of Agent Carter way back in the day. I think that was around our first or second year of podcasting, John. Yeah, absolutely. He also directed two episodes of the exceptional Watchmen series. He directed episode three and episode six.

[00:03:42] Episode six was the pretty much critically acclaimed episode. This extraordinary being where Angela went back and experienced the past using that drug nostalgia, if you remember that one. So pretty much a big standout in that series. And I would say this episode that is directed here of Lanterns will probably be a bit of a standout for a lot of people as well. And he also directed season two, episode five of The Last of Us and directed many, many episodes of Lost where he got his big start.

[00:04:08] I think he did 23 episodes of Lost over the course of their six seasons of the show, five seasons, six seasons of the show. So yeah, so many, many episodes, almost a full season he directed of Lost. Wow. So John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for Lanterns episode three, Outcast? Sure. In the past, John's father, Johnny Stewart, fails a test to become a Green Lantern, leaving him traumatized.

[00:04:34] Later, Leanna, a member of the Guardians of the Universe, visits John's mother, Bernadette, and offers the family recompense by giving John a chance to join the Green Lantern Corps in the future. When John is five years old, his parents train him to be fearless. Years later, John joins the United States Marine Corps and is assigned to an assassination mission, but Hal Jordan's intervention causes it to fail.

[00:04:59] John is dishonorably discharged, and Bernadette enrolls him in art school so he can pursue his other passion, drawing. In 2016, a Guardians recruiter approaches John, who successfully passes his test. He is sent to the next stage of the interview, where Liana offers him the role as the new Green Lantern, but he must not reveal this to Howell Jordan and has to pretend to accept his guidance as his apprentice.

[00:05:27] John returns home to tell his mum and dad, but finds Hal Jordan, who has told his parents already the news, but privately tells John he does not need a sidekick and he'll only get the Green Lantern ring over his dead body. What a great ending to this episode. Oh, I know Hal Jordan is a massive fan favorite character. He's been around for many, many years. There's loads and loads of different stories to tell.

[00:05:54] But this episode, of course, being all about John, gives you a brand new perspective on John's relationship and John's relationship with Howell Jordan, which is really interesting because, you know, we've mentioned it before. We're not huge comic book readers of Green Lantern. We've read loads and loads of comic books, but Green Lantern kind of popped in and out of some of the comic books that we've read. So we don't have a huge connection with this character of Howell Jordan, and we haven't seen very much of him in the show so far.

[00:06:18] So to get the origin story of John and where he got to in this at this point in 2016 is a really interesting choice, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. I think I think it's an interesting one this because I mean, certainly the ending you just like, oh, like, you know, Howell Jordan. It's just his demeanor and everything. And we will get to that in detail. Yeah.

[00:06:42] But he doesn't exude warmth or anything, anything of the sort. But I think it's a really interesting exploration of John Stewart in this. Yes. But I think importantly, it's a really interesting angle on the Guardians because actually at the end of it,

[00:07:07] I came away thinking, oh, okay, this may all be being presented topsy-turvy. Yes. In a way. And it's not to say that John Stewart is the bad guy or anything like that, but certainly that he's being used for a particular purpose. Yeah.

[00:07:26] And it's very interesting how just some subtle parts of the conversation and just the way Leanna is trying to direct certain thoughts of John Stewart during the interview. It's just really, really good. Yeah. Plus we get the flashbacks to kind of how John Stewart came about and some really sort of big moments, I would think.

[00:07:53] And as I say, I'm not too up on Howell Jordan, John Stewart as Green Lanterns for the Earth sector and so on. But, and even how the ring process works, but I like how it is portrayed here. Well, interestingly, the behind the scenes stuff, they say the story of John Stewart's origin hasn't really been told in this kind of depth in the comic books either.

[00:08:18] So they got a bit of a blank card to be able to tell a story that they wanted to tell. Okay, that's really good. So this is the story they chose to tell. There are some origins here and there, they say, but nothing, nothing too in depth. It's not like you have issue one, here's your new, your new Green Lantern, and this is how he became the Green Lantern. So they felt they had an opportunity here to tell this story. But I do want to say one thing before we go into the, the top three points.

[00:08:44] And it's kind of interesting, it's a, it's a, it's a quote from Damon Lindelof during some of the interviews he's had over the last couple of weeks about the show. Um, or at least the ones that are being released at the moment, uh, as, as the show is being released, let's say. Um, and it's very much the opinion that I have about the show and probably the reason why I'm enjoying Lantern so much. Um, he had this quote about given where we left Hal Jordan at the end of episode one, that, you know, a major character, he's got a bullet in his head.

[00:09:12] He's frozen to death. He's in, he's in 2026. And his quote was, I hope people will take the ride with us and see where they are at the end of the series with the stories of these characters. It doesn't really matter where we've left the character at the end of episode one. What really matters is where we all end up together at the end of episode eight of this season. And I totally agree with that opinion of the show. And not, not necessarily just to do with lanterns, but if you're going to watch a series, watch it to the end before you have any opinion formed.

[00:09:41] Because exactly as you mentioned, John, I think there are twists and turns of the conversations here that can be played out in very different ways. The series goes on and it's great to speculate great to have fun discussing it, but making your decision as to what they're doing with the character before you've seen the full story is quite a big. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, if you think of it as a book, you can put a book down after maybe one chapter, you might go, no, I'm just not getting this style or whatever, or two or three or whatever.

[00:10:11] Or you just, you just end up finding yourself that you're not picking it up again. It's not that riveting read. And I get that. But equally, if you are reading a book, most people will read it from front to back cover and then make their view on it. And I think to some extent, there's a lot of views that come in after one episode, because actually the whole package is being reviewed based on one episode.

[00:10:40] And it really taints it. So, third use to Lindelof for saying that. It's an interesting idea, wasn't it? To be honest. And I think this goes for a lot. It's like, you know, watch the whole thing. And then you might have some basis for judging whether you personally don't like that interpretation or not. But it doesn't mean to say it's bad or middling or whatever. Yeah.

[00:11:07] And also, I think, you know, there's just a lot of people that would be coming to this from a really different angle. Absolutely. I mean, and I say this as someone who absolutely is a nerd and a geek, loves his comic books and so on. But I do appreciate that there are people elsewhere in this world that don't necessarily or haven't had their head in a graphic novel or a comic since they were probably five. Yeah.

[00:11:32] So, they're coming at this probably from the whole mystery of it all. And I really like that. I think. Oh, agreed. Yes. It's definitely. I think it's very open. Yeah. I think his point was more to do with the fans of Hal Jordan. Let's not jump to the conclusion that they've done Hal Jordan wrong by that one scene in the first episode. There's still quite a few episodes to go. And even here, he is an a-hole in this episode, but I still don't think his story's been told very much in the season so far. And I think we're going to get an episode where we'll learn more about Hal.

[00:12:02] Yeah. I think so. Yeah. But I think let's get into our powering points for this episode. Our three powering moments. Let's get into powering point number one. Four. I'm still leaving it in. It's still making me laugh. Well, we kind of had to call it this. You know, one of our first Marvel podcast was Daredevil.

[00:12:29] This is our DC podcast talking about lanterns. So our first major point has to be called The Child Without Fear. Instead of The Man Without Fear. Instead of The Man Without Fear, which is Daredevil. And dare I say it, for little young Jon Stewart, his father could fire golf balls at him. He could have. Hence our opening little musical number. He could have. For our points. If Jon was maybe slightly less scared than he is.

[00:12:57] But no, Jon is the one that changes the game. From, can I shoot the apple sitting on that stand over there? To, daddy, can you shoot this apple off my head? So let's get into a bit of the detail about how this family gets to the point where they're training their son to be completely without fear.

[00:13:15] Yeah, I mean, I think the big thing here, other than the fact that Shock Horror, Jon Stewart's dad is called Johnny Stewart, is that the ring actually made the rounds around a whole area.

[00:13:33] And that Jon Stewart Sr. was also visited by the ring, held in the green bubble and asked, do you have fear, effectively? You know, are you afraid? But wasn't chosen because, in a sense, he was. And he responded. He responded. Yes, I am afraid. What is going on?

[00:13:57] And to me, that was massively interesting because you just, in previous iterations of this, I had always just assumed it just went to Hal Jordan. It was a single choice. It was kind of, you know, however it did it, it was ruminated on and it just went to the person that was the next choice for being a Green Lantern. Yes.

[00:14:23] But having said that, the more and more I think about it, because that's what's happened in my brain over time. That's how it's been perceived because I don't really follow the Green Lanterns and so on. But actually, it is the fact that it comes with a question. So if you answer the question wrong, yes, it's going to move on. So actually, there's a whole rake of candidates.

[00:14:44] So I kind of like this notion that, in the end, the Ring is, you know, in its own way doing its own interview process like we see Liana do in this episode as well. I like the notion that we've had reports back that people have been left traumatized here, that the process isn't maybe what you would expect to happen here on Earth.

[00:15:09] So, like, that whole thing to me was really, really important, really telling that actually Hal Jordan as such isn't a first choice here to be a Green Lantern. Yeah. He just answered the exam question correctly. Well, yeah. In many respects. Absolutely.

[00:15:25] And so I just think that's a really good dimension that either it's just kind of refreshed me with here because you have Johnny Stewart getting freaked out by it. Clearly, it affects his marriage. It affects his job. People in work are thinking he's gone crazy. He's telling everybody he was visited by an alien in the middle of the night. Yeah.

[00:15:49] Bernadette, his wife, has asked him to effectively move out the house because he shoots out the TV because he sees Hal Jordan and he's like going, that could have been me. Yeah. And so, you know, they begin to form following Liana's visit to the Stewart household. And Liana's played by Laura Linney. She's the guardian that's taking on human form here. I don't think they ever say the name in the episode.

[00:16:17] It's just in the credits at the end that she's called Liana. And when she's being interviewed, she's called Liana because I was so confused why they wouldn't say her name throughout the episode. Well, I had to just keep calling her Linney. Exactly. Like Laura Lianney? Because I was like, Laura Linney's character. And I can't write that. So Linney. Exactly. But it is Liana. Yeah. So I was close.

[00:16:38] But eventually with like Laura Linney's character, Liana sort of arriving at his house to talk to, ultimately talking to his wife, apologizing for any distress or alarm because they've heard many candidates are in stress. Sort of emotional turmoil as a result of that. And she's like, so are you an alien then? Because her husband has been talking about this and she doesn't believe him. Believe him.

[00:17:08] And you have just quite a nice shot of Liana sort of transforming from human form because her natural form apparently is too distressing. We don't see the face. I wouldn't say it looks too distressing from the backside. But equally, we don't see the face or the front of the body. It might be very different. However... I was expecting that kind of moment from Beetlejuice where he shows his face and you see the people. Yeah.

[00:17:37] Freaking out in front who see the front side of his face. But I love that, again, Bernadette just goes, I'm not the type of person that's going to get distressed by this. But you do see something creep across her face when she sees it and goes, okay, definitely an alien. Right, let's go for a coffee inside and have a discussion about this, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And I think ultimately then, you know, over coffee, you know, we hear about the process of the ring not being ideal.

[00:18:06] That you hear her sort of saying to Liana, you know, asking a black man in white America, are you afraid? You're probably going to get back, yes, I am. Yeah. Rather than, no, I'm fearless. I'm without fear, which is what they're looking for and what Liana explains to her. And this forms the opinion for Bernadette that that's, in many respects, the only reason why Hal Jordan got the gig effectively was because he came from a privileged background.

[00:18:35] He's white. So, therefore, he was able to say, I don't live in fear. Yeah. And that's the difference. It's like, it's that I don't live in fear rather than whether I'm afraid or not. Exactly, yeah. Which I like how she does say to her, look, this is the politics on earth and you don't even, you're not aware of this.

[00:18:57] And, but I like here that Liana sees, you know, she goes, you're a formidable woman and the same genes that the ring, you know, or qualities that the ring saw in your husband will also be present in your son. So, this could be a good candidate. If your son is raised fearless, it would warrant the Guardian's attention.

[00:19:25] And I do like that Bernadette comes back, but would he get a first shot at being a lantern? There's still that notion of equality here. But it ultimately leads to having to raise this child without fear. And, you know, there's some really good points that come through on this. And actually, you see Bernadette being a significant driver across all of this.

[00:19:50] She's the one that wants when young Jon Stewart puts the apple on his head and says, look, it's like William Tell. Because at this moment, he's been given a gun for his fifth birthday along with a Green Lantern outfit. And he's been told his destiny on his fifth birthday. Yeah. And he's out practicing his aim at five with the gun. And then he stands there with the apple on his head.

[00:20:17] And I'm like going, okay, so it wasn't his dad's idea to do this. And he goes, look, it's like William Tell. Shoot it off my head. And his dad is really like, no, I'm not going to do this. But it's his mom that pushes her husband, Johnny, to shoot the apple from the head. Yeah. All really based on the concept that fear is a learned behavior, which is very much the place that Bernadette comes from.

[00:20:46] I love just that moment that she says, you know, we're raising two sons in this house. We're giving them all the opportunities. We have to believe that there's a better world that they can get to. We have to believe that they can inspire others or else what are we doing here at all? You know, so effectively what she's giving to John is if we take away his fear, if we give him all of the basis to make him equal to someone that lives that fear. He also has a chance to be a Green Lantern, which is why she pushes so hard because she is of the firm belief now.

[00:21:15] She just had an alien arrive in her garden and tell her it's almost, you know, hopefully not no offense to religious people, but it's almost like the angel coming down from heaven to say there is a God. Exactly. God exists. Well, suddenly, if you have somebody in your garden telling you that God exists and you believe you will believe even more in it and you will evangelize for it. And that is what Bernadette becomes from this point onward.

[00:21:39] She will do absolutely anything, including allowing her son to get an apple shot off his head to prove that he has no fear. I just think it's really interesting. I love just some little nods back to the first episode as well. Just while we're talking about this that I really like, you know, in the first episode, that opening scene, we were wondering why the hell are they so scared to watch television? Particularly this interview with Green Lantern. Well, guess what? The last time Green Lantern was interviewed on TV or had a statement on TV, their dad took a gun and shot the TV.

[00:22:09] Exactly. You know, we now know. Now we know about the apple as well. So all those little things that we saw in those little moments in the past, they're all being filled in very differently. Yeah. And, you know, his two brothers, Marcus and Aaron, you know, they're too old. They already know fear. We can't do it with them. And I like how that plays out, say, on John's fifth birthday, where Aaron, who's the eldest brother, gets annoyed that he's always chosen.

[00:22:39] Things are always done for him. And this is where they're telling him about his destiny. And so we'll come to it more, I guess, empowering point number two. But just how sort of the editing and the cutting back and forth between these points and the interview. And you have, in a sense, almost Leanna's assessment of this being provided in questioning form to John Stewart about various things.

[00:23:08] Well, you know, was there isolation for you in the family given your unique upbringing? All these kind of things. But I like how that interchanges. And I think, you know, whilst we're keeping the point separate, we shouldn't forget how nicely this interchanges between different, you know, flashbacks and recounting from John around the mission to the interview and so on. You also have this, as you say, Bernadette being really pushy.

[00:23:38] And I think, ultimately, there's a number of touch points here where they drop him off in a really rough part of Midway City in town to make his own way back. And he comes back and she's like, I've left a pork chop for you in the microwave. But he goes and John starts to cry. Yes. And there's these points where you can see the strain building on young John Stewart. I was wondering about that because they drop him off in the city.

[00:24:08] And the reason why we're saying it's Midway City is because there's some graffiti on the walls saying the Midway Panthers. So that was my question, whether that's where this all takes place is John living in the city called Midway City. But I did wonder about him coming home crying because you don't see any of the journey home. He doesn't seem to have any fear. He just walks past a couple of guys who are on the side of the streets. And then he arrives home a couple of hours after everybody's finished their dinner, basically. And then his mom says, there's a pork chop for you. But he breaks down crying.

[00:24:37] And I do wonder if something happened to him on the way home. Like it doesn't look like he's been beaten up on the way home. But they may be indicating that he was beaten up on his way home so that he would have no fear. And they just didn't give us that specific scene. Just showing this kid who's been so strong from when he was five years old up until now breaking down crying at what happened. Probably means it didn't go so well on that walk home either. No, exactly. And I mean, she's absolutely relentless, really pushes John.

[00:25:07] I mean, he overhears her trying to get in contact through this huge satellite dish that they've bought with the Guardians. And it's like, are they not answering? And she's, I guess the birds aren't liars after all. Because the other side here is that she's made up this story to say that the birds are watching on behalf of the Guardians. And they report back to them.

[00:25:31] And this is where, you know, that's why I can't get in touch with the Guardians. Because you're not showing the progress. You're not showing the fearlessness that they're expecting. And until you do, we're not going to hear anything. So it's all about pushing. And even where his mom, Bernadette, switches up the William Tell game and tells him effectively to shoot the apple off his dad's head.

[00:25:57] And I love that his dad is like, well, shouldn't we work up to this? Like, you know, but he can't pull the trigger. And I think maybe this is the moment where possibly she does believe she's taken it too far. And because she comes in and she says, you know, there's nothing wrong with loving your father. There's people that don't even get fathers to be able to love back. It's not a weakness. It's not a weakness.

[00:26:25] And you have John here in this moment saying, you know, the birds are right. I'm not good enough. But Bernadette says, well, possibly I have gone too far here. And she goes, well, I made it up about the birds. And they aren't in contact. And you just have John saying, well, you lied. You have the repeat here from Bernadette where she's like, yeah, but we're trying to give you something here. This is what we're working towards, this goal.

[00:26:51] And she talks about, you know, how, again, how a black man may have to raise his hand to make himself seen. Yeah. Because we are good enough as compared to anyone else. But sometimes we have to be seen. And this is just one of the ways that you will be seen by becoming fearless. And it's a relentless journey.

[00:27:14] And this is where she brings her theory saying about how being chosen because he was privileged enough not to know fear. And she's trying to effectively make her son have the same privilege through this training that they're doing. But interestingly, she tells him if he wants to stop trying now because they lied to him for this long. And it's a big lie. You know, it's not like this. You know, it's not like Santa Claus. He said that every bird that's out there is relaying information back to the guardians.

[00:27:44] They have told him from when he was a tiny child that aliens exist and he has a job waiting for him if he trains. And the birds are watching the whole time. So quite a big lie that she's told. So interestingly, I think the twist there is when he turns around and says, no, mom, I'm ready now. And she goes, I'll wake up your father. And he goes, no, no, you. I'll shoot the apple off your head at that point.

[00:28:08] You're going, I'm not too sure whether he's made that decision because she lied to him or because he wants to show her he's without fear. I'm not. I'm just not sure in that specific moment. Maybe it's a mix of both where he's like, I am pretty angry at you, actually. Maybe you need to stand in the way of my gun and we'll decide whether you have fear or not. I do believe it is that. I believe he's got that moment where he can make that call. Yeah. And he does because he's a clever kid.

[00:28:36] And he's able to do that because she's basically just said, we lied to you. We tell you not to lie. And at the same time, she's given the kid agency, as you say, to make the choice to continue or not. And there's also a little bit more of the she's almost a bit more on board than his father is. She's the one that is giving the direction.

[00:29:02] So she is almost his his first leader, his first senior officer giving him directions, but given them through his father. And his father did. Well, it didn't really want to be shot at by his 10 year old son. Right. Yeah. So he's kind of going, well, if you're going to stand beside me and you're the one that wants me to learn all this stuff, I want it to be you here. I want I want us to be able to have that relationship. You know, interestingly, after he does shoot the apple off her head, she goes, I believed, of course, I thought you were going to do that.

[00:29:31] But not time for your cheeseburger. And he goes, I hate cheeseburgers. I've always hated cheeseburgers. So the interesting thing about that, though, I think there is something significant behind that. Yeah, significant thing is he never wanted to disappoint his father either, even though his father was was shooting the apple off his head the whole time. He got he got a cheeseburger afterwards as his reward. And he didn't want to say no to that because that's what his father wanted for him. But he'll tell his mother. Yes. You know, yeah.

[00:29:59] He believes that his mother knows more about this situation than his father does, it seems. So really like that. I thought that was really interesting. So, I mean, I think this is a really interesting look in the psychology of bringing your child up. I mean, it's quite extreme. But in many respects, you can see how it works, you know, about pushing children down certain routes to follow. Sometimes it's chop and change, chop and change.

[00:30:26] Other times it's like, you know, it's relentless. I mean, I'm guessing I say it's extreme, but I'm guessing it's like pro athletes were or even, you know. I still think the involvement of the gun and the apple on someone's head is pretty extreme. That is very extreme. But what I mean is, I think, conceptually, it's probably the same kind of techniques. It's just really, you know, train, train, train, train, train. That is. And then, you know, fitting in schoolwork, all this kind of stuff.

[00:30:55] You know, to what extent do you not have that same family life as his brothers, Aaron and Marcus? Again, does it breed isolation? All this kind of stuff. And I think it's a really interesting journey to show the journey of this, you know, baby through to a five-year-old receiving his destiny. I mean, I wouldn't have been ready at five years old for that.

[00:31:18] You know, and then into sort of almost early teens where he's then being like chucked out into the rough end of Midway City. Yeah. And all of this is really interesting stuff and gives a lot about or potentially gives a lot about Jon Stewart here. Well, absolutely. Well, it does. Like, you know, a couple of little things that I thought were interesting about this before we move on to our next point.

[00:31:48] And interestingly, when Jon Sr. says he is afraid, it's Jon Jr. as a baby in the bed in the same room. And the minute the green glow goes, Jon Stewart's Jr. cries, which I think is really interesting. It's like that's his only moment of fear that he's ever experienced is the moment when his father said he did have fear, basically. So he started to learn it there. I just thought it was an interesting little touch.

[00:32:14] And the big reveal here about the birds watching all the time and birds being very important throughout Jon's life as he grew explains the manifestation of the bird when he used the Green Lantern Ring. No, that's where he said it meant nothing to him. It kind of doesn't mean anything to him because it was a lie from his mother, but it kind of means something absolutely massive to him. Because for about 10 years, he believed that birds are watching him and reporting back to the Guardians. Yeah. And I like the fact that it's also depicted in his drawing.

[00:32:43] He draws a lot of birds. It just builds a nice picture of this man and where things are coming from. The bird's not a fluke. It's from his childhood. And that the episode ends with him talking to a bird as well. So there is still a connection there. So I really like that.

[00:33:03] And yes, throughout the episode, as you mentioned, Jon, going in and out of this interview with Liana was a really interesting touch because you're learning that at least on the surface, Jon is actually quite a well-adjusted person who has had fear taken away from him and has been pushed to certain extremes by his family because of the destiny that they believe is there for him in the end.

[00:33:26] But to every question that he's being asked throughout this interview, he has an answer, which he seems to truly believe. He still believes that he loves his family, something that he couldn't teach to somebody else. He still believes there's a difference between being programmed and how he was raised. And there's a very deep distinction in that he's not a robot. He is just raised with different values and different experiences than his brothers were. And this has led him to this point. And he says that great line right at the start.

[00:33:55] Every single thing I've done has led me to being across the table from you. That is my destiny. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, as you say, how this cuts in with Liana around the family life in the interview is just superb. She's asking, do you resent your parents for the rigors of their training of you?

[00:34:24] Do you love your parents? Do you love your parents?

[00:34:56] Did you feel a sense of isolation? Do you love your parents because of this? And it's like, yes, I owe them everything. And she goes, you owe them everything. How are you going to repay them? With what? And he's like, by getting this job. But she goes, but what if you don't? And he's like, I was trained for it. I mean, that's pure, really great determination.

[00:35:22] But it is just this pitter-patter back and forward between this family life and this interview, at least in part where she is exploring his relationship, probing, trying to unsettle him, you could argue. Absolutely. All of this. But you're right. I absolutely love that he doesn't answer that question that she has to him. What if you don't get the job? Because there's no doubt she's going to get this job. He's been preparing for it his whole life. He will get this position.

[00:35:51] That's how he will repay his parents because he will get it. Very good. The only time she really does kind of fluster him is when she starts talking about his military career, which is our powering point number two. And the powering point number two is a failed mission, kind of, sort of, maybe. But it is about his military career. He does go off and becomes a sniper.

[00:36:19] Interestingly, we see him towards the end of his career on this final mission, effectively. And that's what she starts to probe about. So we learn that he's the mission that ends his career, ultimately. Yeah. We learn that he has been tasked with taking care of a terrorist, taking care of, not taking him out to dinner. So he's been given the information by someone who is a friend with his father, someone that kind of went through boot camp with his dad.

[00:36:46] He's developed this reputation, effectively, for always getting the job done. And I really like what we get in that moment with Jon Stewart and the general, where the general is trying to give him some padding and some information about the target. He's like, I don't care. Just tell me about the mission and tell me when you want it done. Tell me the details. I will have it done. And then Jon asks how many other people have been there for it.

[00:37:12] Again, showing his investigative skills, showing that there's no way you would have this intel if other people hadn't gone in to try and do this mission and failed. He learns there's three other people gone in. And then the general tries to explain about the panic button. And Jon says, I won't need a panic button. I will get the job done, basically.

[00:37:31] And he stays for a very, very long time watching on this property, watching on, waiting for the arrival of this Russian terrorist, as they say. Yeah, Petrov or the Grey Wolf, as he's known. I mean, yeah, absolutely. It's attritional. It's pure patience in a nutshell. I mean, he's also injured on the parachute down.

[00:37:56] Yeah, when he's about to do the parachute jump, you know, the guy says, oh, really sorry. We wouldn't normally drop you in this kind of weather, but the radar won't pick us up. And then he goes, well, then it's the perfect time to be dropped. And then he goes out into the storm and gets injured on the way down. You see him bleeding quite profusely, but he just continues on. None of it fazes him. He will get this job done effectively. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's like this never-ending stakeout, really.

[00:38:24] It cuts back in part to the interview. And this is another really interesting aspect from Leanna, because she does ask Jon Stewart about Sinestro, who we saw right at the end of episode two. And what he thinks about Hal Jordan, because the whole shebang between Hal and Sinestro played out in real time on Earth as well. So it seems like everyone on Earth knows, and she's saying Sinestro was Jordan's teacher.

[00:38:53] And he still harbors deep affection for his mentor. It's troubling for Leanna's species. You can see it there, but she's worried about disobedience. And there's this hint coming in that actually Hal Jordan has been disobedient by maybe going back to Sinestro in prison, keeping that link open, that affection for him, even though he's done something bad to the extent that he's been locked up.

[00:39:22] Yeah, he's killed one of the guardians. Yeah. Which is quite significant. So again, she's worried about disobedience because of how Jon Stewart's mission ended, at least officially on paper. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And she has to dig for more stuff on it, because he's basically left it initially at he was dishonorably discharged. Yeah. And that the mission failed or he failed the mission.

[00:39:53] And she's like, oh, so like, you know, it suddenly becomes a big question mark. Absolutely. And he says the reason why he doesn't want to tell her is because he's not comfortable telling her this information. You know, this is suddenly a question of his duty and his honor. He's been dishonorably discharged from the army, but he's supposed to be keeping this thing completely secret. He's not supposed to be telling anybody what actually happened on this mission. And she's saying to him, effectively, you have to tell me or you don't get this job.

[00:40:24] Yes. Because I'm not going to be willing to give you this information if you're not going to be willing to share the uncomfortable details of your life with me as well. So an interesting kind of moment between. Exactly. He's kind of like, well, it's classified. And she's like, well, there'll be stuff within our job that will be classified. And I mean, that's the other element here that comes out around the disobedient side. You get the sense from Liana that she's hinting quite clearly that Hal Jordan is disobedient.

[00:40:54] He's a bit chaotic for her. And here, Jon Stewart is stating quite clearly, I follow orders. Exactly. Yeah. And he's telling her whatever classified information you share with me will not leave this room. And you truly believe him. But again, he had that situation where someone told him something classified. He can't tell anybody in the world what actually happened on that mission. And he has to share that information with her. So again, in that moment, he is making the decision.

[00:41:21] There are some things that are classified that I am not allowed to say. There's other things I'm going to actually share with this alien in front of me because it gets my goal. And that's my actual goal. Those people did dump me. And I was dishonorably discharged at the higher ups. Know what I know what I did. But that would have been the absolute end of my life's goal if I don't share this information with the woman across from me here. So it's a really interesting. So what did happen on that mission?

[00:41:45] What happened was Jon was there for such a long time waiting for this Russian terrorist to arrive back that a senator who was out in a drunken night saw Hal Jordan and just happened to casually mention to him that they know where this guy is going to be. He gave him the day and time the guy was going to be there. He said, like, tomorrow morning this guy is going to be at the location, which they probably could have given to Jon so he wouldn't have been sitting out in the bushes for nine months. But they gave this to Hal Jordan.

[00:42:12] And Hal basically ran out of the bar, went over to Russia, blew up the guy's house, took the guy back and threw him into Guantanamo Bay. All ending off with basically an attack of an American superhero on Russian soil. When the Americans were not supposed to be there. And Jon Stewart takes that heat for Hal Jordan and ultimately superheroes. Yes.

[00:42:40] So like father, like son, a job offered and not completed by Jon Stewart, completed by Hal Jordan. And they have to take the brunt of the responsibility for it, basically. Yeah. I guess. Is that a way to read it? I mean, the interesting thing here, again, is about disobedience and all that. She says we've told him he can't use his powers for terrestrial events or issues or situations. In the same way that.

[00:43:08] Kerry Kane said to him when he arrived in Rushville. So we have this kind of recounting here. But she also then is basically asking Jon Stewart, like, to what extent do you believe that Hal Jordan was responsible for both your complicated family life and being discharged from the military? Love us. Yeah. And in a real pressure keg situation.

[00:43:33] To really, Jon Stewart kind of is quite neutral about it. Yeah. But. Well, he specifically says his job is to protect people. And I respect anybody whose job it is to protect people because that's how he's been brought up. He's not blaming Hal Jordan specifically. But she's absolutely right.

[00:43:53] There is a read of his life as told to her that Hal Jordan is at fault for everything that happened to him, his distance from his family, why he's the type of person that he is now and where he's landed right now. But I love the fact that this all comes off the back of him being back at the family home after the failed mission, after him being dishonorably discharged. His mom is basically asking him, how long are you going to mope around the house? And it's all about effing Hal Jordan.

[00:44:23] You know, and both of them are effing Hal Jordan. And I just so I just like the fact that it's all that stated loudly out loud in the Stuart household. And then back in the interview, he's like, well, I respect anyone. So, you know, it's just a nice little contrast and juxtaposition here.

[00:44:46] But what we also get is that, you know, again, maybe just how slightly Bernadette has softened after having the apple shot off her head. And, you know, she goes, well, I've applied on your behalf to go to art school because you also like doing that. I can't have you using up all my electricity here. And she goes, but the path hasn't changed. This is just a detour. Until then, you have to make yourself happy.

[00:45:15] So off he goes to university where, you know, he seems to be a diligent student enough that he's been asked for a special project where he has to draw objects from memory. And initially, he draws the front of the building where he's doing this test. He's then asked by the guy to draw a watch, you know, or can you? And he's like, yes, my dad's watch.

[00:45:42] And he says, now place the ring on your fingers. He hands out one of the Green Lantern rings. And he says, manifest your dad's watch. Think about it and projects. And he does in an instant project the watch.

[00:46:05] And following this then, and it explains why Jon Stewart is falling from a dome right at the start of the episode. Because he creates almost like a little portal for Jon Stewart to jump in, take that trusted step into the unknown and to see what happens. Absolutely. And yeah, again, you know, to the point where we were talking about the fact that he was able to create a bird when using Hal Jordan's ring.

[00:46:35] Here he's created a watch, but not just some piece of plastic. He's created all of the inner workings of his father's watch. It works exactly like a watch does because of his training, because of his attention to detail, because of everything that has gone into creating Jon Stewart. So, yes, he will be far better at using this ring than probably Hal Jordan is because of this attention to detail that he's had. So, what an interesting way to pull him out of there.

[00:47:06] Yeah, I wonder whether Bernadette had softened or whether she had almost given up at the point when he's in the house. Just on the idea that she's been pushing him for his entire life and he's gotten to the point where he's been dishonorably discharged from the army. And I wonder if she's just kind of going, well, look, you've done everything. It is time for you to use your other talent because he is very talented as an artist as well. Maybe we need to put this in the back burner a bit. There's nothing more that we can teach you.

[00:47:33] You've done everything you can to get to this point and still the world's against you. So, maybe time now to go and pursue another dream. I think it is that. I mean, she does say the path hasn't changed. I think when I meant softened, it's just the fact she says, you know, you have to make yourself happy. You haven't really gotten that from her. And I know it's a long time since the apple being shot of the head.

[00:47:58] But I do believe that was a slight turning point where she realized, look, yes, we are still going to train him. Yeah. But it's not as such going to completely destroy his family life or his happiness. And I think that comes out from Jon Stewart in responding to Liana. Yeah. Where he's like, you know, that he says he does love his family. Yeah. And he's quite clear with that to her. So...

[00:48:26] I think there's just part of it that she's kind of going, maybe we can refocus this. So, it's not like the training has been a waste for him. She's saying to him, I brought you up to have no fear. Don't fear the leap into the unknown that is going to art school. You know, just because you've been on this other path, this is just a slight detour. Yeah. Use everything that you've learned to go and challenge yourself in a different way for a while. Be fearless in another way, which is putting yourself out there with your art, I guess, in many respects.

[00:48:56] And it turns out that, potentially, the focus on the art that he's had, alongside all the other focus that he's had, has made him an even better Green Lantern than they could have hoped. Because he's going to be able to manifest things that other lanterns aren't able to manifest. So, was it a failed mission or not? No, it was the variety of life. Yeah. But I do have one specific question, though, about the mission. I don't expect you to answer. A bit rhetoric, mostly for maybe our listeners who have a perspective on this.

[00:49:25] But when his target finally arrives at this retreat and John has him in his sights, he has him in his sights once at the front door. He has him dead to rights in the back. If he's able to take the shot, he probably would have taken him out. He has him in the window upstairs. And then the following morning, when he's leaving, before Hal Jordan arrives, he has a third potential shot to take out this guy. And he doesn't take a shot at all. Now, I'm not a sniper by any means.

[00:49:55] And, you know, he can judge the wind distance and his, all of that stuff. He can make those judgments. I just thought it was quite interesting that he did have the target in his sight three times after waiting such a long time. He didn't take the shot. Hal Jordan arrived and decimated the place, took his target away, and then he got dishonorably discharged. And I just wonder, is the reason why they put it on screen there that there is another possibility to this story?

[00:50:21] That John didn't take the shot and he's also blaming Hal Jordan for what happened to him? Is there just a little bit of that, that it's not as sealed a deal? This is in his head that Hal Jordan absolutely ruined the situation and ended, and he ended off losing his, his position in the army because of it. I don't know. There was three opportunities. That's all I'm saying.

[00:50:45] Yeah, no, I mean, I'm guessing given how fleeting those opportunities were presented and conditioned, I guess it's just trying to indicate how difficult it is to get a kill shot at distance with wind.

[00:51:04] Whilst John Stewart has set it up for that, it's also in the moment he has to make sure that it is correct in order to get the right moment. So I'm guessing it just, it's how fleeting those moments are when you're trying to kill as a sniper at distance. And what happens is it's a very precise way of doing it. Yeah.

[00:51:30] And you have Hal coming in with the sledgehammer approach, which in the end became more effective. But what happens is it shows American involvement on Russian soil at the time. And so there is all the heat that has to be taken by the Department of Defense in the US and the Pentagon or whatever it is, the military. And they can do that because I think his general says, well, we can do that to protect the superheroes.

[00:51:59] And I think the bars that senators frequent and that possibly shouldn't, the old stripper bars. Yeah. But someone has to take the fall for that. We can only do so much. And because they know that American activity was happening on sovereign Russian soil. Yeah. And so that's John Stewart. But don't worry, because all the higher ups will know what a good team player you are.

[00:52:28] But you are being dishonorably discharged. Exactly. So he got no benefit out of it. Now some higher ups know that that's what he that's what he was doing. And, you know, he's left alone. He's left on his own. And I'm not saying he's wrong. Sorry, I didn't want to make it sound like that. I just wonder why they specifically showed three opportunities. And it looked like after John had waited there so long, the target was only spending one night there and then was leaving. So he wasn't going to get another opportunity after that either. So having waited so long, set everything up.

[00:52:58] He may have had to wait there another year or two years or five years waiting for this guy to come back. So I just thought it was unusual that they didn't show him trying to take a shot and missing. Or, you know what I mean? He lined up the shot a few times, but didn't take any shot. He didn't take out all the other guys around him or anything like that. So I just thought it was something worth asking the question if anybody else saw that reading now. And maybe later on in the season they may revisit this moment that we'll hear Hal's side of the story or we'll hear more detail behind it.

[00:53:27] I just wonder. You know, it's always about, what do they say, the narrator themselves and their opinion here. And this episode fundamentally is Jon Stewart and his mother Bernadette's opinion of how their life got to this point all told through this interview. So I'm intrigued to see if there will be any changes to that story as the season progresses. It could be. You mean like from Hal Jordan's perspective? Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:53:58] Again, as I said earlier on, I feel like we haven't really gotten much of Hal's perspective. He's aged here. We've seen a version of him from earlier on in his life who is a very different version of Hal Jordan than the jaded Hal Jordan. So I wonder will we spend a bit more time with him in the future? Well, I think what you get from the general on Jon Stewart's return to America and where he's delivering the bad news to him is that, like, you were taking so long.

[00:54:25] You were being so patient that actually, yeah, it was starting to unsettle the chain of command. Yeah. And they didn't know whether you were dead, in trouble, had been taken as a prisoner or any of that. And so all of a sudden it was getting a little bit more heightened because he wouldn't take the extraction buzzer. Yeah. So it... Panic button. The panic button, that's the word. Like an elderly person.

[00:54:55] The extraction button, yes. You know, he wouldn't take any of that. So because the chain of command was blind to the situation, seemingly, you know, still alive. There was no reports whatsoever coming back because there was no radio. Out in Jon's mind, it's, well, I told you I'd get it done. It doesn't matter how long it's going to take. I'll get the job done. Yeah. It's kind of his way of believing in himself, I suppose. So an interesting one.

[00:55:23] We have one final powering point, our powering point number three, which is the new Green Lantern. I wanted to focus specifically on this final decision, the final outcome of this interview, because the whole episode has been leading, has been led through this interview process. And the final outcome is where Liana effectively offers him this job. But it's the words that she uses, which I think are the important things to talk about here.

[00:55:52] And she says to him, firstly, do you have any ill will towards Hal Jordan? And that's what we said earlier on, that Jon says, no, he was just doing his job. I get it. That's kind of who he is. And then the offer comes, which is, would you be comfortable replacing Hal Jordan, even if he thought you were his backup? Is the very specific way that she said it. So he's not being offered what we thought he was at the beginning of the series.

[00:56:20] We thought he was someone that will take over from Hal Jordan when Hal Jordan dies in the future. And he is being trained by Hal Jordan to take over his role. And he's going to eventually learn how to fly and all that kind of stuff. He's being told that he is replacing Hal Jordan. And Hal Jordan will think that Jon Stewart is his backup. Yes, exactly.

[00:56:41] But it's also not just that Hal Jordan will be under that impression, but that Jon Stewart knows he's under that impression. Yeah. That effectively he is the replacement and there is a dance happening here. And Jon Stewart's going, well, are they orders? And she goes, yes, if you get the job.

[00:57:06] Then he says, then it doesn't matter if I'm comfortable because she is asking, would you be comfortable with that? He says, because they're orders. They're orders. It doesn't matter. And he gets the job as a result. He gets this job. So that's the telling conversation from here, because it's not to say that Jon Stewart is suddenly maybe the gray area here. Probably more. It's more that he's being used by the Guardians for something.

[00:57:33] I think it connects in with Hal going back to his mentor, which Liana finds sort of slightly disturbing, slightly unusual. And the notion that he's a bit of a rogue Green Lantern here. So this all is starting to cluster quite nicely, I think, around the intentions of the Guardians here.

[00:57:59] And I love the Jon response that we mentioned the kind of conversation about that before. But Jon does say he doesn't think there's anything wrong with it at all. You can see why Hal would have a good relationship with the person that trained him. It's his mentor. He will always have some connection with the mentor, which is interesting as well. So, yeah, we'll definitely learn more about who Sinestro is in this version of the story as well.

[00:58:24] What I really want to know now, we hear from Liana that he's the one that trained them and he killed a Guardian. So, therefore, he should be punished and he should be completely out of all connection with Hal because of that. So that's quite interesting. We mentioned earlier on about Jon saying that he knew all the stuff from the news. So the news is following everything that's happened here. This isn't something that happened off planet in a galaxy far, far away.

[00:58:50] This is something that played out at least covered by the international news. And Jon was able to see it, which is quite interesting. But, yeah, after she congratulates Jon on getting the job, he travels home to tell his expectant parents that they'll never believe what happened. The aliens finally came and offered them the job that they said he would have from when he was five years old. And Hal's standing there waiting for him.

[00:59:17] It's kind of like, I think as the walking out, he says, I didn't steal your thunder, did I? Oh, like it's everything about Hal Jordan in this moment where he's talking to Bernadette and Jon Sr. And he's going, oh, it's Jon Sr. So you're Jon Jr. So we'll call you Jr. And his dad goes, no, no, we just call him Jon. And Hal continues to call him. Hi there. I'm Hal Jordan Jr. Let's go outside and talk about schedules and that kind of stuff.

[00:59:46] And then he turns back to Bernadette and Jon and goes, I knew this guy was going to be a good kid the minute I met you guys. Because you guys are like the Midwest Huxtables. Yeah. Which is a reference to The Cosby Show, for those of you who may be a little too young to know that. Which is effectively, he's saying, you're like the sitcom Black Family from the 80s that I remember. To these two very well spoken, very well brought up people who've raised someone that's going to be an even better Green Lantern than he has turned out to be.

[01:00:15] And the look on their eyes at the table when they've been compared to the Cosbys from The Cosby Show in the 80s. They just want this guy out of the house as quickly as possible. But very quickly, when he is outside the house, he reveals his true feelings to Jon Stewart. Yeah, basically, I don't give a flying F what you want. You probably want this effing ring. But I don't give an F. We'll train Monday.

[01:00:42] I mean, effectively going, you know, if you think you're just going to suddenly replace me, I don't need backup, that's for sure. Or a trainee. But look, we'll train Monday. It also, you know, it makes sense then, that whole training thing at the start. Like, there's no investment here at all from Hal. But, you know, he, the Guardians have said, well, this is the guy.

[01:01:11] So he has to go along with it. But there's no investment there to train him. He's certainly not going to give him the ring. I think he does say, you'll have to take it from me when I'm dead. Like cold dead hands, I think is what he was trying to say right there. Which, again, maybe is a nice little reference then to why the ring isn't on his hands when Jon Stewart finds dead Hal Jordan. So, again, it's all nicely marinating for me. Absolutely.

[01:01:40] And just to remember, Jon Stewart didn't just find Hal Jordan dead in the cold with no ring on. Jon Stewart found the body of Hal Jordan with a bullet hole from a sniper in his head. Frozen in Rushville. Jon's a sniper. Jon has been told he will be replacing Hal Jordan. Jon, in fact, in this episode is told he is replacing Hal Jordan.

[01:02:08] And Hal Jordan, from this point onwards, needs to think that he's the backup. Ten years later, did Jon take over from Hal during that ten years and then put him out of his misery? Or did Jon wait ten years and then put Hal out of his misery there? You know, look, we don't know. Well, that's stuff for the future. But this moment between the two of them where Hal's saying, you'll get it over my dead body is very interesting.

[01:02:34] But I guess as well, that kind of reaction, you know, we've had a lot about Hal Jordan so far about the gut feeling that something's not right. As I say, I don't think it's necessarily because Jon Stewart's not right.

[01:02:49] It's more that he's being used by Lyanna because all of this made me kind of suddenly feel, oh, is Lyanna the guardian that the other aliens, that Waylon, that faction of aliens, talks about a guardian that stored the Manhunter on Earth? Maybe, yeah. Is Lyanna that alien? You know, she does make a moment about humans having short life spans.

[01:03:18] You know, maybe this is an alien that has a much longer lifespan, like significantly longer. Or is a descendant or, you know, from that particular race of guardians. Well, the guardians are effectively immortal. They've been around for millennia. They've been around forever. And the point is that there's one of them now dead at the hands of Sinestro.

[01:03:45] And Hal is still his friend, basically. So is this just punishment for him still having a relationship with Sinestro? But quite specifically, again, Hal knows the history. A ring goes out. It chooses the Green Lantern. And that's the Green Lantern. And when that person dies, the ring goes out and chooses another Green Lantern. Here, he's being told by the guardians, we've actually chosen your replacement already before you've even died and the ring's gone out.

[01:04:12] So now you can kind of understand why he's so angry about having to do this. He's still going along with it. But I definitely feel there's a lot of story to tell now of Hal's opinion of what's gone on over the last couple of years. He was the hero for 20 years, and now he's suddenly being told, we've just chosen somebody else randomly like we've never done on any other planet in the entire galaxy before. So yeah, very interesting stuff. Absolutely. No major notes. We've talked about loads on this episode. A really, really good episode, but no major notes.

[01:04:41] But one thing I did want to mention, just because the episode's called Outcast, and it's spelled the same way as the group, O-U-T, capital K-A-S-T. So the group, Outcast, there are two songs in the episode. But at two major moments for Jon Stewart, one when he's in the car with his brothers and realizing how different he is from them. When they're trying to get him to rap along with the song on the radio, that's A.T. Aliens, which is from Outcast.

[01:05:06] And then at the end of the episode, after he's being told that he won't get the ring at all, that's Gasoline Dreams by Outcast. So yeah, not only is the episode called Outcast, not only has Jon been made an Outcast by his family, they've also included two really good songs from Outcast in there as well. Yeah, absolutely. Anything else from yourself, Jon? Any notes that you wanted to mention? No, nothing from me. I think it exhausted most of my notes. Fantastic. This was a big episode. I took lots and lots of notes in this episode.

[01:05:35] I think for you, that's probably the most notes I've ever seen you take. But it was just one of those fascinating episodes. I didn't want to miss anything because the acting is so good. There's so many excellent moments in here, once again, from Aaron Pierre as Jon Stewart. But his mother, who played by Jasmine Cephas-Jones throughout this episode, really drives the episode. Along with Laura Linney, who's just fantastic in this role as this unusual woman who turns out to be an alien that is pretending to be an unusual woman.

[01:06:04] I think those are great moments. But Jasmine Cephas-Jones, you might recognize the surname there, Cephas-Jones. Her father was in Luke Cage many years ago. So we also know him as well. She was in Hamilton. That's where she got her big start, her big bracelet. Excellent. So she's excellent. Really enjoyed her. Good number of people that have come from Hamilton, actually. Yeah, really good. Excellent. See, musical theatre is alive and kicking, everyone.

[01:06:30] Absolutely. It can be a great way into the universe, right? Into the movies and TV. Jon, overall, what did you think of the episode? For me, I really, really enjoyed this episode. I'd give it five Tweety apple pies out of five. Nice. I just think, again, it just adds a nice layer of backstory and flashback onto what we've already seen.

[01:06:55] It really has a lot of connection with those first two and pulls in intrigue around, well, what are the motivations of Liana? Because, to me, I came out of this really having a little bit of a shift to say, okay, yes, Hal Jordan is acting like a complete a-hole. But it's not to say it's totally unwarranted in terms of how things have gone.

[01:07:21] And, I mean, up front, when you have Jon Stewart falling from the dome and getting to Laura Linney's... I have to say, I do like the thing where she says, I'll be back, and he's basically there overnight. And when she comes in, she's like, oh, you're still here? But I do like the fact that, you know, up front, it's telegraphed where Jon is asking, why are you interviewing for the job? Green Lanterns normally are chosen by a ring.

[01:07:49] Like, in a sense, the fundamental issue with this process, which Hal Jordan would also recognise, is that this is a standard interview, seemingly, to replace him. But it is the ring that does it. Exactly. And he hasn't died. Yeah. So this is all very unusual for Hal.

[01:08:10] We have the nods to Sinestro and sort of that Lyanna and other Guardians find it strange that he still harbours this deep affection for his mentor, despite what he's done. So it all deepens this lovely mystery. I love the flashback to Jon Stewart's family life. I mean, that was a tough old gig. I think Bernadette is superb.

[01:08:39] As Lyanna says, you are a formidable woman. And that is one of the other reasons why she does consider that he would be looked at for being a Green Lantern. Not just because he holds the same genetics as his dad, but also because here in front of me is a formidable woman, which is something to behold. And she's great in this. Absolutely.

[01:09:07] So I just love how this layers on, you know, what is the intention of Lyanna? It adds a different dimension to why Hal is behaving the way he is. Absolutely. With Jon Stewart. It adds layers to Jon Stewart's history. You know, the birds, the manifestation, all of this kind of stuff. So for me, absolutely love this. Five Tweety apple pies out of five. Fantastic.

[01:09:36] Did you notice that there was a pigeon, I think it was, in the interview room when Jon comes into sit down and he just looks at it? And you don't know why he's looking at it until the end of the episode, basically, that he's had birds looking at him the whole time. So, again, when I was looking at it the second time, I was like, are the birds watching him? And his mom pretended that it was a lie now, you know, because there does seem to be that Laura Linney does know a hell of a lot about Jon Stewart from the interview itself.

[01:10:05] She's questioning everything about him. She's been watching him for a very long time. So has she been watching on using the birds? I still, I'm still not too sure. But I think it's time for us to get a quick drink down the local. Maybe a steak and a pint, Jon? I think so. It is time for the Rushville Redneck Bar Quiz. Fellow quizzes, fellow lanterns. It's episode three.

[01:10:30] So, of course, we are on to our third question for this series of the bar quiz. The question is, how long does Jon Stewart stake out the compound of the Grey Wolf before he's taken by Hal Jordan? I almost spoiled that about seven times when we were talking about that part of the scene, Jon. So, I'm glad I didn't. Do you want to give the question one more time? Absolutely.

[01:10:53] How long does Jon Stewart stake out the compound of the Grey Wolf before he's taken by Hal Jordan? Excellent. That's the third question of eight questions. Get all of the answers together at the end of the season. Email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com and you can be in with a chance of getting your hands on some lanterns goodies if you've got all the answers correct at the end of the season. We have lots of feedback in from our wonderful fellow guardians.

[01:11:19] First up, we have a little bit of feedback in on Discord from Paolo on last week's episode. He wasn't very taken on the first episode, but on last week's episode, he says, Okay, now we're talking the lantern, the uniform, Sinestro, Manhunter. I am totally on board for this. Good action. Good tension from across the episode. Now I can listen to your coverage, which I always enjoy. Five out of five pet Audrey twos from me. Fantastic, Paolo. Excellent stuff. Thanks, Paolo.

[01:11:45] I'd be intrigued to find out what you thought of this episode, because again, it kind of brings it, no pun intended, back down to Earth. Kind of, yeah, but with the intrigue of what's happening in space, because we have a guardian right here. And the good news is, John, you won't have to wait very long. We've got Paolo's feedback in right at the end of this feedback. So next up, we have an email in from Coffee and Vodka, though. Yes, Coffee and Vodka says, Greetings, fellow shotblock defenders.

[01:12:15] Origin stories are usually way down the list of preferred viewing experiences. Even the best of them are still about the past, when what we're after is the furthering of the current plot. This is where the great editing of John's story came into play, just before any element could drag, an event or spot of characterization was brought in, before quickly cutting to a different point. Perfect for those of us with music video attention spans, it thoroughly illustrated where John's attitude came from,

[01:12:44] being more or less shared and introduced by his parents. And I loved the standout scene of the apple being shot off Bernadette's head. The lines, I'm ready to shoot now. And no, not dad, you were positively chilling. As well, the Laura Linney appearance was nice to see. Finally, it demonstrated that hell didn't have to be an active part of your life to be a major pain in the ass. Four and a half, Watchmen, Guardians of the Galaxy,

[01:13:13] and Men Without Fear out of five. Peace and take care, Coffee and Vodka. Excellent stuff, Coffee and Vodka. You see, we actually could have just called our three power ring points after those there. It could have been Watchmen, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Men Without Fear done. Absolutely. Yeah. Good joke, Coffee and Vodka. No, you're absolutely right. You had the editing, the way the episode was put together was so interesting, wasn't it? You know,

[01:13:41] there's points where Laura Linney is asking these questions of Jon Stewart and he's kind of answering in a very specific way. And then you see the flashback to what actually happened. And then, you know, you see bits of his mission. You're not sure exactly what he's saying to her. It's not like that. He's not doing voiceover, but it's really good to kind of build everything about his character in these multiple timelines. Well, it's gorgeously non-linear in that sense. Like you say, you know,

[01:14:09] I was talking like specifically about how it cuts in with Liana's questioning of Jon Stewart around, you know, his relationship with his family and what he thinks of Hal Jordan. And then you have the mission being cut into all of that, which just, you know, sometimes it's like, it just cuts through nicely in a non-linear way and, and changes it up. And then you suddenly, you know, you do,

[01:14:39] you get jumps from he's aged five or a baby to age five. And then all of a sudden, you know, he's kind of just coming up to adolescence. And he's that bit older, you know? So I kind of like that non-linear aspect here brought in by the editing. Yeah. Really, really good. Thanks coffee vodka over on Facebook to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups, slash TV podcast industries. First up over there, Derek Whitfield says, powerful episode. Absolutely. Right.

[01:15:09] Derek, really, really powerful. Wasn't it? Alan Thomas says, seems like Damon Lindelof is spending the 2020s making DC superhero shows on HBO that he hopes will impress tiny EC Coates. Don't get me wrong. I think it's great to do a black superhero show, but I wish the writers wouldn't lay it on so thick. It's cringy and try hard. My objection is not about the nature of what the show is preaching. And I want to be clear that I'm certainly not a red hat type. I just don't want to show to be preachy about anything left, right, or center. Interesting opinion, Alan. Yeah. You know,

[01:15:38] I don't want to overstate how involved Damon Lindelof is in the show. You know, he got into a huge amount of trouble when he was doing Watchmen because people kept giving him all the credit for the writer's room. You know, there were, there were many, many people involved in the writing of, of Watchmen, which I think is the other show you're referencing there. Ta-Nehisi Coates is an excellent writer. So I think he's probably is out there to impress him because everybody wants to impress a great writer. Right. But in, in this case, yes, the writer of the episode is an African American woman who, who has a son.

[01:16:08] And she says herself, the reason why she wanted to give the superhero origin story here is because she wants to give hope to her own children that they can grow up in this world and reach for the stars like, like John Stewart does. So it's a really interesting perspective to put in here. And again, it's not the only perspective that the show has, you know, we had a character one episode ago, two episodes ago, saying that he doesn't like foreigners and he will, he will stand his ground and shoot them if they come onto his land. And basically he was talking about aliens, but that is one of the characters in the show has said that.

[01:16:38] So if you have a show that can say that, I think you can have a show that has a black superhero with this origin story. Um, I think they're all, they're all entitled. I don't think there was anything particularly preachy about it. And it is the opinion of the character Bernadette here. So, uh, don't think I'd agree with you that a show can't have an opinion, uh, about, uh, about what they say, or a character can't have a perspective that they come from. And being vehemently opposed to other characters in the show makes for interesting drama, I think. Um, yeah, I mean, I think ultimately,

[01:17:08] you know, it's giving the perspective of John Stewart here. It's his episode is flashback episodes and his family. They're black and they live in America. They had its trials and tribulations like other places as well. Yeah. Um, in, in terms of race relations or how, and how people feel identify and so on. So I, I didn't feel it came across as preachy. I think, I think it was just a matter of fact,

[01:17:35] the way Bernadette saw this and how she took it on board. And that's ultimately what was the driving force. I mean, I think I mentioned it, you know, you just get this sense from Bernadette of how relentless she is at driving this training program for her son, because she believes there's something there for him. Absolutely. Um, in, in essence that, you know, to, to sort of lift themselves out. I mean, you know, there, there is,

[01:18:06] um, you know, that really interesting moment. And I, I found it, you know, quite telling because it gives the psyche of Bernadette, you know, um, that her and her husband have to break down every step stereotype and, and show up and more because we're black in a white world. Um, I can't raise kids and say, you can't better yourselves. So actually it's, it's, it's just saying there's an extra hurdle, but I, I didn't find it preachy. And I,

[01:18:34] I like these perspectives on life because it is the variety is the spice of life for me. Um, and I think, you know, um, sometimes you don't realize that you're part of that unfair world sometimes. Well, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But I am. Yeah. I mean, I think, uh, it was just a great episode for me. Really, really good. Uh, thanks Alan for your feedback. Yeah. Thanks Alan. Hopefully, uh, hopefully enjoy the rest of the season. Absolutely. Um, also on Facebook,

[01:19:04] Harvey Locust, uh, had his thoughts. Yeah. He says, I loved the William Talbot was John's idea. I knew it wouldn't happen, but I really wanted John to miss the apple. The really WTF moment for me was why make the guardians tall. Other than that, it was a great look into John's past. Yeah, absolutely. Um, I'm with you on the, the William Talbot being John Jr's idea. I, and again, I, I like the,

[01:19:33] um, shift in the William Talb idea, or it should be John that shoots the apple off his dad's head. And then John turning that back against his mom. Yeah. And it's, it's just nice moments here. And I, weirdly, um, for, uh, you know, the use of, of a gun in a suburban area, because I, I, I do think if I live next door and there was that much gunfire coming from a house, I would be like, what is going on next door? And absolutely move in,

[01:20:03] especially the amount of times that sets off the dogs in the neighborhood. That's, that's bad enough for me to be honest. It was even just the fact that, because you, you have Liana give Bernadette a huge diamond, which the police came around for, uh, because she tried to cash it in to find out what it was. And I'm like, I'm surprised they went there for all the gunshots. exactly. Exactly. Um, just Harvey mentioned there that he, he thought that John might miss or wanted John to miss the apple. Um, really interestingly, of course, you know,

[01:20:33] you've, you, when we're watching the episode, um, you realize that John senior has had a conversation with John, uh, earlier on in the season, but we haven't heard anything about his mother. We didn't see his mother in that, and that flashback scene at the stars. We didn't hear her in the background on the phone, uh, when John was talking to his dad. And then when, when they switch it up and John saying, well, I want to shoot the apple off your head. Yeah, absolutely. In that moment, I was going, Oh, um, I guess this is the reason that, that,

[01:21:03] um, we haven't heard from his mother. Right. Absolutely. And as for the mention of about the guardians, yeah, very, uh, different from the comic book guardians, the guardians, uh, in the comic, um, they kind of remind me of dungeon master from the, the dragons cartoons. They're about like three and a half feet tall. Yeah. Dwarf or kind of gnome like, like tiny, but, um, yeah, she grows taller when she's standing in front. Um, again, she could be on a chair. Maybe her head was just quite big. Maybe that's all it is. Uh, but yeah,

[01:21:33] it's, uh, it's, we, we haven't seen them yet. Um, so maybe they'll look a bit different when we see the front of them, but I was quite surprised that it seemed to, uh, look really sleek and beautiful with, uh, the lovely color and, uh, shaved head. And we didn't see the front. And as John said, she looks fine from the back, but yeah, maybe she looks very different when we see, uh, when we see the front. Thanks, Harvey. Absolutely. Thanks. Great stuff. Uh, also over on discord, Richard blaze says, I continue to be blown away by this series.

[01:22:02] Acting and story are on point throughout great to see the upbringing of John and what his training was about easily one of the best shows of the year. Uh, uh, great stuff. Uh, Richard. Yeah. I mean, I would agree with that. I think I've scored five out of five for all first three episodes. I'm really enjoying, um, this telling of the green lanterns in a way that is accessible for me. So yeah, this has been a really good series, but I,

[01:22:31] I find that, um, this kind of project certainly, I mean, whether it's an HBO thing, I mean, you know, again, not to overstate Damon Lindelofs, but it's just the name, but, but I just think this is a really nice project, um, and how it's the angle at which it's taking it for me. Um, you know, in terms of trying to bring the lanterns back, I mean, you know, it could have been the usual, like pure sci-fi type thing. In a sense. Will we tell them, John?

[01:23:03] John? Okay, we will. Um, John made the commitment last week that he thought I've been lying about, uh, about the green lantern movie, uh, and how bad it was. Uh, we tried to watch it twice this week. One was the extended version, uh, which is about 25 minutes longer than the original version that we definitely saw, uh, when it came out, uh, and John was asleep within the first two minutes of that one. And then we tried the shortened 10 version. And John was asleep about 15 minutes into that one. So, uh,

[01:23:30] we may eventually go back and watch the Ryan Reynolds one. And it was an interesting shorthand. I'll say that. Um, one of the things, uh, I will say it gets you very quickly into the universe. Yeah, absolutely. To know some of the characters that are talked about here. The opening is quite good. It's like a lot of stuff is crammed into that opening. And then unfortunately it's back on earth and it's like, Oh God, it's just not a good film because this whole story is taking place on earth. And it shows,

[01:23:59] you can also tell the story on earth. If you've got good writers behind it. Um, but no, it's not, it's not great. We'll, we will, we will hopefully watch it again in the future, but I'm probably not going to try again, uh, before the end of the season. So, but it was interesting to have a couple of seconds just to kind of talk about it. Like they have the, uh, old school, um, almost nineties comic book movie where they go, right, here's all the things that happened in the comic book. And a voiceover of three minutes. So it's a really good little YouTube video. If you want to get caught up on, uh, absolutely.

[01:24:26] Maybe you watch the first three minutes of the movie and that'll give you some ideas of some of the concepts that are a bit out there right now through the episodes into lanterns. Yeah. Weirdly, the whole guardians thing and the planet and the parasite, all that was the most believable thing in the movie. Um, nothing on earth was believable. Oh, there you go. Well, you only got 15 minutes in, John. So, uh, so we won't, we won't throw it under the bus. Uh, but I think there's a reason for that. Uh, but thank you so much, Richard, for your thoughts. Yeah. Thanks,

[01:24:56] Richard. Um, Joe Herb says, this was a wild episode really reframes the scene at the start of the series between John and his father. In this episode, young John was reluctant to shoot the apple off his father's head, but he seemed eager to take a shot at his mom. Um, well, I think he was just making the point, like, put yourself in danger. Um, rather than putting dad there, I guess. Certainly after you've lied, I guess. Again,

[01:25:26] we, we did talk about it, Ron. I think it's, it's we're both on the same page, mom. You need to be more involved. Maybe, maybe it was that. I'll give him a little bit of credit for it. Thanks so much, Joe. Yeah. Thanks, Joe. Paul Ted she Lee just joined us over on discord and had some thoughts so far on the series. The lanterns. He asks, are you watching the behind the scenes bits that are after the credits and the next episode previews? Are you listening to the official podcast?

[01:25:51] There's so much there that explains lore for those of us who didn't read green lantern comics or have only encountered them in passing. Another DC properties and specific to episode three, both the screenwriter and director are African-American. And we're getting an African-American centric origin story for Jon Stewart. Also did not clock Jasmine Cephas Jones as Jon's mother. I've only seen her on Broadway in Hamilton. And that was a decade ago. So kudos to all the actors, especially the various kids playing younger Jon Stewart. Thanks, Paul. Great to hear from you. Great that you found us over on discord. Yeah, absolutely.

[01:26:21] And I think you pulled something out there really well. Yeah. All those kids playing the younger versions of Jon Stewart and his brothers. Yeah. And they're really top notch. I mean, there's some really good stuff that goes on there. Yeah. And certainly I think from Marcus in the car, uh, when Jon is trying to, to, to rap, um, he's kind of been egged on by Marcus and, uh, Aaron. And he's like, you rap like a white kid called Henry,

[01:26:51] but his delivery of it is really, really good. It's like real. Henry. Henry. Yeah, exactly. Really good. Really good fun. Yeah. But the kids who play Jon Stewart specifically as well, like there's three of them, I think, uh, throughout the, throughout the timelines, the, the old three different actors who play Jon Stewart are, uh, are all delivering things that, you know, kids would probably find pretty unusual. Yeah. Mom, I want to shoot the apple off your head. You know, really odd day to, to have at work, isn't it? Or just stand over there by the wall and we'll have this apple explode over you five or six times.

[01:27:21] We just need to get the right shot for a six or seven year old. Yeah. Um, yeah, uh, for that. Um, just, just to say, no, we're not watching any of the behind the scenes stuff. It doesn't come on HBO, uh, in the UK. We don't get the behind the scenes stuff or the next episode previews. They're not, uh, on the episodes that are released over here. You have to go to YouTube and watch those, uh, those bits, uh, and we're not watching them because we want to watch along each week. Um, I know the official podcast specifically focuses on each episode.

[01:27:51] Uh, they do that with all the HBO shows like house, the dragon and, uh, we record our podcast. Um, I do want to do listen to them afterwards. Um, usually there's some really good, uh, interesting chats with the, the people behind the show, the actors and the, and the directors and writers, uh, as well. So I did see, uh, just that, that short one, since you mentioned it, Paul, I did see the short one with, uh, with the writer of the episode where she said about her being a mother to, uh, to, to a young child.

[01:28:20] And she put all of that into her writing of the episode, and particularly around Bernadette and wanted to deliver that kind of as her message to her kids, uh, which I thought was really interesting. Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. Um, but thanks so much, Paul, uh, for the feedback, really good to get your, your thoughts. And finally on discord. Yes. Paolo, uh, got in touch as well on his thoughts for episode three. So my wish has come true. It's just in time as well. I think it was two minutes before we started recording.

[01:28:50] great stuff. Thanks, Paolo. Paolo says, another top notch episode. Excellent origin story for John. The acting was brilliant. Laura Linney was a great surprise as a guardian. She could read the phone book and I'd still watch her five out of five black throated magpie jays. Uh, great stuff, Paolo. I am totally with you on Laura Linney. Um, and I didn't say on the podcast for some strange reason, maybe because I just know it myself. Um,

[01:29:19] but it, you're, you're absolutely right. And I would be there with you listening to her read the phone book. Um, for me, Laura Linney has just been someone that weirdly without knowing it has just crept up on me. And I think the moment where the penny dropped for me, um, was when we were watching Ozark. And I just kind of went back and started looking at what all her previous stuff. And I'm like, I really like this actor. Um,

[01:29:49] so, so much. And so knowing she was on here, I was like, I can't wait to see her, um, give her, her portrayal of whatever she is, you know, as a guardian. Um, yeah, Laura Linney is top notch and I, I just love her delivery. I just love the presence that she has. So I'm totally with you. Um, and, uh, yeah, again, the acting was brilliant.

[01:30:14] I really hope that she's in this even more and more layers. Um, like again, you know, to imagine Chris Mundy, that that's where he comes from. He's, he was the, the show runner for, uh, for Ozark. So that's where he got Laura Linney from. And she was so amazing in that show. I can't believe the show got as long as it did. You know, the storyline is not show. It should have ended after about three or four episodes. And the acting there, particularly from those main three with Jason,

[01:30:44] Bateman and, um, Julia Garner. And of course, Laura Linney, they just were able to bring out something interesting. Every single episode. It was such a stunning show to watch. So I'm so glad, uh, she's hopped on over to the project. Absolutely. Absolutely. Totally with you there, parallel. Uh, for sure. Absolutely. Thank you so much to all of you for your feedback on lanterns. Episode three. We will of course be back next week with episode four. And if you want to join us on our Facebook group, pop on over to facebook.com slash group slash TV podcast,

[01:31:14] podcast industries. Uh, you can join us in that group there. Uh, we have a spoiler post up there for each episode of the lanterns as it comes out each week. You can also join us over on discord as Paul Tenshi Lee, uh, fantastic this week and joined us over there. the link is in the show notes, uh, or pop on over and search for TV podcast industries, but the link is in, is in the show notes for the episode to listen to right now. So you'll be able to, uh, join us over there. I hope you do. And chat to us about the shows, uh, that we're, that we're covering. Uh, or of course you can continue to email us to feedback at TV podcast,

[01:31:43] industries.com with your thoughts about each and every episode of the shows we cover. Yes, absolutely. And thanks so much for joining us. We'll talk to you again next time. Yes. Fellow lanterns and fellow quizzes until next time. Keep watching, keep listening. And of course, keep shining a light. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.