The Rings of Power Season 2 Episodes 1 and 2 Podcast

[00:00:00] This is the Lord of the Rings podcast on TV, Podcast Industries, we're back with the Rings of Power for Season 2 Episodes 1, Elving Kings under the Sky and Episode 2, where the stars are strange.

[00:00:11] No longer will we be hunted as the demons who broke Middle Earth, but rather worship as the Savius who finally healed it by bringing its peoples together to rule them all as one.

[00:00:26] Thralk on, O David.

[00:00:34] Doubt me at your peril.

[00:01:13] Welcome back fellow ringers to TV Podcast Industries for the Lord of the Rings, the Rings of Power Season 2 this time we're talking about Episode 1, Elving Kings under the Sky and Episode 2, where the stars are strange. I'm one of your host, Derek.

[00:01:25] Hello there fellow ringers, good to be back. I'm one of your other host, John.

[00:01:30] Welcome back to the Rings of Power, only slightly delayed.

[00:01:37] Yes, we got all the 8 Episodes of the Star of August before we got married.

[00:01:43] Yes, absolutely. Good stuff, got married.

[00:01:47] And then yes, I've not been around for doing the umbrella academy unfortunately and that's just because I injured my back.

[00:01:58] Yeah, and it's well, it's still pretty injured but it's improved enough now that I can do a bit of sitting for a while.

[00:02:08] Yeah, some podcasts.

[00:02:09] Yes, so we're going to try to basically raise a parrot and we are catching up for episodes of the show have been released in prime video at the moment.

[00:02:14] So we're going to give John an opportunity to podcast on the show. We're going to do two episodes this time, two episodes, hopefully next time.

[00:02:21] See how it goes as we catch up with the rest of the series but we've enjoyed it so far.

[00:02:25] Absolutely, I really enjoyed this. I mean visuals again, Tom Notch. I mean some of the images of this show from season one but it's continued in season two just look they look like pictures.

[00:02:40] I mean they're really beautifully sort of rendered and framed. So visually stunning as always and it's good to move through all these different characters sets from the elves, the men, the dwarves to the orcs.

[00:02:59] And of course with a sour on on.

[00:03:02] So to speak. So yeah, really good.

[00:03:04] Yeah, one of the things I've really been saying since season one of the show was despite the fact that this is lower the rings and it's Gerro, tokens world and it's been around for decades.

[00:03:12] They still need to establish the universe that they were going to play in in season one and with other establishment done that feels like season two is much more focused on the characters and the stories that it wants to tell it's just be darsing round as much as it was in season one and responding more time with each of the characters in their place learning what their central part of the story is so.

[00:03:31] Yeah, I mean I think that's it. I look I mean I don't quite get the sort of sort of general. I'm going to say with bad reviews but general sort of ignoring of seeing this from one.

[00:03:45] I mean you know a book needs to set up the the whole world and I think that's what season one did. Yes, it was eight hours of TV but it could take you eight hours of reading sort of four chapters depending on the side of the books.

[00:03:59] Yeah, especially with token and depending on how quickly you read. So I mean like that was necessary and it still had some really pivotal moments like the creation of model, you know,

[00:04:10] and just that reveal of of sailor on sort of hiding in plain sight. So you know, I think as with all these things, you know, I guess this is where the TV format has to sort of be mindful in that I get the point it's still eight hours of season one.

[00:04:28] That's a lot of time to invest certainly for the the more relaxed viewer or certainly not necessarily the avid fan of talking. So like that is something you have to be wary of but nonetheless, I think,

[00:04:41] you know, they had a lot to show in season one. I don't think you're right season two definitely seems to be sort of settled much more suffocs. I think the pieces are in place here now.

[00:04:54] Yeah, the interesting thing from these first two episodes was actually just not really seeing new mineral actually.

[00:05:03] I was surprised at that but again to the point that it's focusing it's time I guess in a different way in this season.

[00:05:13] Yeah, it feels like the last of a need to see every single character in every single episode which is which is important you're going to see them as the season goes on of course.

[00:05:20] And all that to say really you're listening to a podcast of rings of parapherfans now and we really enjoyed the first season we're very happy with it and we're really looking forward to talking about the second season of the show really.

[00:05:29] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and also I will definitely say you're also listening to people who've read the books as well and so our pronunciation of characters maybe what they call book reader pronunciation which is whatever way we pronounce them in our heads.

[00:05:42] And having time to say that on the TV show and in the movies I'm still going to pronounce some characters the way I pronounced it when I was reading the book initially. So but way we'll say what are the big compliments I'll give to the show is the the casting of Morphid Clark.

[00:05:55] Well, Druss she really does nail a beautiful version of all these the names of the characters particularly the Elvis characters and the Elvis words.

[00:06:04] She has such a great tone or a nice relationship voice love how when she's speaking in an elvish and low when she's talking to with the characters.

[00:06:11] Not that the same company said for every character not everybody could nail the same way I don't want to throw anybody under the most book Benjamin Walker is Gil Glad and while he has a very kind of aggressive stance because he is effectively the king of the elves.

[00:06:24] His voice doesn't lend itself as well to the the soft-wilting tones that you get from Elvis quite often so and so there you go, but I still love Benjamin Walker love them since Jessica Jones.

[00:06:35] So yeah, let's get into our discussion about load of the rings the rings a pair of season two but will remind anybody who hasn't subscribed to the podcast we have in podcasts over 10 years on tons and tons of shows.

[00:06:46] Please pop over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com you can subscribe to the podcast over there the rings a pair of podcasts for all the rings a pair of episodes and of course are main podcast feed for all the other shows that we're covering.

[00:06:57] And we'd also love to hear from you through a season of the show that you can email us to feedback ask tvpodcastindustries.com with your thoughts or you can pop it over to our facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash TV podcast industries where there's a spoiler post up for each and every episode of the shows where you can leave your thoughts on each of the ones as you watch them as well.

[00:07:17] Yes, absolutely. But let us get into our spoiler filled discussion first off Derek what are some of the episode details for episode one and two of the rings of power season two.

[00:07:30] What the Lord of the Rings the Rigs a pair is based on the Lord of the Rings and the appendices by Jay or Tolkien the show winners and exact producers for the show are JD pain and Patrick okay as they were season one episode one directed by Charlotte Brands from.

[00:07:42] She directed episode six udon and episode seven the eye of season one to the biggest episodes. The season one really and the episode was written by Jennifer Hodges and who wrote episode two season one as well.

[00:07:52] This second episode was directed by Charlotte Brands from and Louise Hutter whoper which is interesting having two different directors on the episodes but again because of the nature of the show where they're you know spanning multiple countries.

[00:08:04] While they're doing filming a guess it makes sense to have two different directors. Yeah, it's an interesting way TV work sometimes but Louise directs episode three of the show and directed some other shows we cover on TV PI including the last two episodes of the same man season one along with two episodes of the Witcher. Excellent stuff.

[00:08:20] So she's been around lots of people. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and finally episode two was written by Jason Cowell a he co wrote episode three and wrote episode seven of season one as well.

[00:08:30] So and so yeah, so he's on board as another one of the right series in the right. She's really excellent. So John do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for the first two episodes of the rings the rings of Paris season two?

[00:08:42] Sure.

[00:08:43] At the dawn of the second age the dark lord's sound is seemingly killed by an army of orcs and their leader Adar but his spirit in jewels and forms a new body over thousands of years.

[00:08:54] Taking the name Halbrand he helps the elves forge three rings of power before his identity is revealed.

[00:09:02] Hiking Gilglead believes they have no choice but to use the rings against Sauron whilst his herald Elrond of Jacks are on the escapes with the rings and takes them to certain the oldest and wisest elf in Middle Earth.

[00:09:15] Who agrees to help until he sees the power of the rings and believes them to be true perfection.

[00:09:22] Sauron, Galadriel and Gilglead put them on and the power of the elves is restored.

[00:09:29] The stranger, a wizard who is regaining his memories and the half-foot's Norrie Brandyfoot gets lost on their way to the land of Rune. They are followed by Norrie's friend Poppy Proud fellow who brings half-foot maps to help them find their way.

[00:09:44] Meanwhile in Mordor, Halbrand is brought to Adar and reveals that Sauron has returned. He offers to go to Eregion, the Elvyn Realm where the rings were forged to gain their confidence and find Sauron's location while Adar erases his army for an assault on Sauron.

[00:10:04] Let's add another one.

[00:10:09] Let's add another one.

[00:10:34] Let's add another one.

[00:10:36] If Elrond leads her company and then convinces the reluctant Elrond that it would be better for him to guide his friends rather than abandon them.

[00:10:46] In Rune, Adarck wizard sends a group of riders to capture the stranger, finding a staff that he recognizes from his dreams,

[00:10:54] the stranger summons a sandstorm which drives the riders off. He loses control and the storm sweeps Norrie and Poppy away.

[00:11:03] Meanwhile, Sauron poses as Halbrand once again at the gates of Eregion and refuses to leave.

[00:11:09] Though he promised Galatriel he would never talk to Halbrand again so in Brimbord does not know he is Sauron and eventually approaches him.

[00:11:18] Halbrand convinces Sauron Brimbord that he is Anatar, the Lord of Gifts, an emissary from Valar who has come to help meet rings of powerful dwarves and men.

[00:11:30] That's a type of the show, it's all about making the rings a pair of course isn't it?

[00:11:33] Yes, absolutely, yeah, really, really good. I have to say I think it can't wait to get into our five tales from these two episodes because again a lot is packed into the episodes

[00:11:46] And the episodes are a good hour long so you definitely get that subscription to Primepis.

[00:11:52] The value of that from the guy sometimes I just like, it's just going to finish soon. How long has this gone on for?

[00:12:00] Just because I think so many now are kind of around 40 to 45.

[00:12:04] I think it's really just kind of, anyway, you're taking notes as well like I'll sell. You're kind of like a camera out of paper here.

[00:12:13] But it's really, really good tales in these first two episodes.

[00:12:20] Yeah, I think as an ecologist, Tolkien would be very unprocessed how many trees worth of paper were used for.

[00:12:27] And the answer to that on the poor end is actually one of the things they will say before we go into these these top five tales from middle earth or tales from these two episodes.

[00:12:37] We're going to talk about them. They very much are sticking to that idea of not telling real characters names and so not only do we have Sarah and having three different names within this episode and as we saw throughout season one.

[00:12:49] We also have the stranger who still hasn't gotten the name although they keep teasing us pretty much know who it is at this stage.

[00:12:55] And they've introduced the dark wizard who also doesn't have names. So lots of characters that are named as a but that's part of their story, the telling of who these characters are and eventually they'll get their names definitely.

[00:13:06] But let's start at the start, John. I think the opening of the show with Sarah and as we start at the dawn of the second age after the defeat of Morgoth we have the rise of Sarah.

[00:13:20] For a little while.

[00:13:23] Yeah, absolutely. I love this. I mean, I never actually thought it would go effectively.

[00:13:30] This is the backstory of Sarah on the next stage. We've always seen him with the helmet face covered.

[00:13:38] Yeah, the multiple forms. You know we've seen him taking the form of Halbrand but here we see him with a different form after the death of Morgoth and you know I just love the whole kind of feel to this.

[00:13:53] You know, Morgoth has died. It's the crowning of you know the anointment of this new dark master in Sarah on and ultimately that that same crown is used to at least you know start the killing of him.

[00:14:10] I'm just so so visceral and using his own crown and then the orcs coming in you know, I mean effectively here is that you know,

[00:14:21] you know, you know, I was not really giving them a choice at all. It's like you know else we'll see you as corrupted humans will always look on you with disgust you'll be attacked and killed.

[00:14:33] It's only with me that you will be able to have any form of kind of existence.

[00:14:39] Yeah, but I'm in future and my path is your only path exactly no choice whatsoever and you know a dull striking off him with his own crown followed by and it felt very Julius Caesar.

[00:14:50] Oh, I'm really a two-bruté kind of thing and I kind of hope they play into that sort of and vibreally of it certainly now that we've got the chance to probably see a dark and sour on together in the same frame with this season and their battle to come.

[00:15:11] So it's like if Julius Caesar had survived the stabbing and it was really interesting and you know, but I love it also saying, you know, my children you are free after they they kill him, but I think even more so then just that form of proto-sauro.

[00:15:26] Oh, I was re-forming and very, very cool for me.

[00:15:31] And just loved how this was visualized kind of I felt like very much like the thing to me. I mean, it kind of like is very warm like you know, sinewy sort of devouring and then taking on a slightly different form growing bigger as it transforms into Halberand when he takes the human.

[00:15:54] And yeah, I was getting the thing far. Yeah, sure. And I was definitely going that that venom vibe the symbiote that's trying to kind of, absolutely everything around itself doesn't have enough power to live.

[00:16:07] It's a really, another good sort of analogy really. But in and of itself it was a beautifully signed disgusting creature as a crawls and slithers its way out.

[00:16:20] Absolutely. Yeah, and takes at the the woman eventually becomes Halberand. So I've looked at that. I thought it was a really good horror sequence and as you say, the killing of of siren when you think, you know, this is going to be the new leader.

[00:16:33] We've heard of siren is he's the leader of of all the dark things in order and is trying to unite all of these dark beings to take over full control of middle earth even in siren speech.

[00:16:46] And he says there's only one way to rule them all. So you know, the lead line really from Lord of the Rings one ring to rule them all. You know, so yeah.

[00:16:55] He's saying that, but I think him saying to effectively a defeats of army and going right we all need to unite together. You only have one path and many, many of you will be dead by the end of us is not a great way to keep your followers on board.

[00:17:06] Absolutely. And I mean as well, it's like this is a flashback but actually it's a flashback to the point of him meeting graduates. Well, so all the way.

[00:17:16] Not only do we see proto siren coming up through from the earth where after he'd been slain from effectively as dark blood really, but also then how he ended up on that ship.

[00:17:32] He was immediately going to go back into the frame to confront a dark and those orcs and goblins just on.

[00:17:42] But actually his hand is stayed here as he meets men, women fleeing the battles between humans and I guess a dark army.

[00:17:52] And you know almost being persuaded to choose good each day. So I kind of really liked how this was put by the guy that ultimately then he, you know,

[00:18:06] he decided not to choose good and allowed to die and who he takes that's the southland king's coat of arm.

[00:18:15] Yes, so he then uses to persuade Gladriel and others that he is a descendant of the line of kings from the southlands.

[00:18:24] But I kind of liked how this was, you know, portrayed in the sense that the guy who kind of persuaded Sauron to turn away from immediate revenge is as you have to choose good each day until it becomes a part of your nature.

[00:18:41] And then you see that actually he's just been using that in order, you know, once the ship is attacked, Sauron effectively decides to not choose the good deed which is to save this man from being crushed and then drowned.

[00:18:55] And he leaves the man to die and but survives himself and then to meet Gladriel. I do love that.

[00:19:03] So I really enjoyed kind of that notion that Sauron possibly being good for one day, but ultimately being good for one day in order to pursue his evil.

[00:19:14] Yes, I think it lands in Sauron as I have the choice here that I can do and you feel like he may make a choice to go to go and choose to good path.

[00:19:25] And then doesn't what I must say, I absolutely love the image of the sea creature under the water seeing effectively Sauron in front of him and turning away after it's destroyed and devastated the ship for the man and women killed them all.

[00:19:40] It just leaves Sauron on his own.

[00:19:42] But yeah, I suppose the arc of the first season is what's being retold here in this great way. This it's also not only is it a prologue that we haven't seen before. It's also leading into Gladriel effectively persuading mistakenly.

[00:19:56] And this person that she thinks is the leader of the settlement come back to Middle-earth and fight against the orcs but actually she's persuaded Sauron to come back and take power again from the orcs.

[00:20:06] Well that's it and actually I think you know for me just taking it back to the point where Gladriel comes on board the sort of the flotsome inject some from that ship after it's destroyed and you have Sauron there.

[00:20:21] I think and it probably links a bit to our second tale of Middle-earth that we'll get to but I like the fact that it has us with how brand and Gladriel because it really plays into the point you know to what extent is this deliberate of Sauron here and because I absolutely love the the whole point of conflict here between Gladriel,

[00:20:48] and that Elron Gill Galad as well as involving Sauron about to what extent was Gladriel used by Sauron or to what extent was she deceived in that she helped it.

[00:21:06] Come to this point as much as Sauron because he was just using what she wanted which was to get she felt she wasn't right already to go to the law she wanted to come back finish her work.

[00:21:21] Finding Sauron and she has but in doing so she's brought Sauron back into this world as a major threat.

[00:21:30] So I love it how it just having that moment where she gets on board that rack and then how her role from season one is questioned by Elron.

[00:21:46] Yes, it's really good. Well, let's get into it. Let's get into our tale number two. I think that's it for the intro of Sauron will talk more about Sauron.

[00:21:53] Sure has the as the episodes go on and as the season goes on and actually as this podcast goes on looking at our later points.

[00:22:00] But let's go on to our second tale tale number two we're taking the rings to Sauron. Is that given the same tempo as we're taking the help of the Eisengard John.

[00:22:09] Yes, yes.

[00:22:12] Yes, we have exactly as you mentioned the fear really of Elron that when it's revealed to Halbrand is that he's Sauron that he may have influenced the creation of these rings apparently three rings apparently of rings and that were being worked on by Sauron.

[00:22:27] I remember and Halbrand and Elrand and Galadriel together to bring back the power of that the elves had on middle earth.

[00:22:37] Yeah, we were that we went through all the way through it season one was if they didn't get the power back they would have to leave and it would have to go off the lands of all her and would have to leave middle earth.

[00:22:46] You'll even do humans defenseless against the armies of Sauron. So that's been accomplished at the end of the season. We got all three rings there but Elron's fear is what if those rings of power that were created were created

[00:22:56] under the guise and guidance of Sauron and therefore he will be in control of the elves.

[00:23:03] Yeah, absolutely. I really enjoyed this triumph of Elron's really.

[00:23:11] Actually, I was really surprised with Elron taking an angry sort of almost betrays sort of stance towards Galadriel for effectively being blinded.

[00:23:25] And rather than deceived, you know his view is that actually she wasn't this neutral carrier of Halbrand and then was deceived and the truth was learned.

[00:23:36] It was that her own motives were used by Sauron to hitch that piggyback effectively to the point where he was able to and set things in motion.

[00:23:48] And I kind of really liked that approach. I never really thought of it like that. You know Elron doesn't want the rings to be used if he's corrupted them and that risk.

[00:23:59] However small Gilgilead and Galadriel think that might be is the one reason why he's disobey his high king.

[00:24:10] He effectively and seemingly looks to throw his relationship in friendship with Galadriel under the boss.

[00:24:19] And I like these different agendas, you know, it's not all kind of singing from the same hymn book. You have Gilgilead.

[00:24:27] The primary objective is to save the light of the light and save the elves in Middle-earth.

[00:24:35] And almost the secondary point is that what we can't leave Sauron to be dealt with by the humans, which you know, we've got to be here. But it is to save the elves, you know, from that fading of the light from the tree.

[00:24:47] And then you have Galadriel also to use the rings in order to conquer Sauron.

[00:24:53] The leaves they haven't been touched by his corrupting influence where Elron is to protect the elves and everyone in Middle-earth from Sauron's influence and corruption.

[00:25:04] And when he believes it is kind of leaking into this world and has affected even Galadriel.

[00:25:14] And through being used as effectively a vector, it's like he is the disease and Galadriel has been used as the vector because of where she went and for the reasons and for him understanding her.

[00:25:27] But it just loved all of this and I love the Elron sort of goes against King Gilgilead goes on the wrong.

[00:25:37] You know, trying to find an ally in Sauron in order to sort of make his case that Sauron can also kind of, you know, two against two in effect in this discussion as argument as to what to do with these three rings that have been created by Kalenberg.

[00:25:57] Yeah, you know. I loved it. It was really good.

[00:26:01] And it was the right choice of Elron as well. If you're going to rely with any of the elves, you rely with the oldest and wisest which is Sauron.

[00:26:06] He's the one that's been on Middle-earth, longest he knows the phases, he knows what's going on. He understands everything that's here but Sauron initially sides with Elron takes the rings and is going to throw them into the deepest emotions.

[00:26:21] And then they effectively reveal their paratil and many realises hang on. This is what needs to be accomplished. These are the most powerful rings that we require to restore the power of the elves.

[00:26:34] So he takes them back himself to Gilgilead and himself Gilgilead and Galadriel are the three elves that takes the rings and put them on. They're the ones that have got this power in their hand now.

[00:26:45] And I really liked how Sauron here because he tells Elron as well. So I just put him the ring into the pool with the fishes and how they react around the ring and just talking about the power that it possesses over life.

[00:27:02] But just seeing that visually on fish, like them jumping out of the pool where he's got his hand outside of it and then swirling around it.

[00:27:12] And him saying, you know, and also kind of getting into that sort of weird philosophical debate around artwork and what he says, you know, these rings are perfection. They are a thing of beauty. It shouldn't be the content should not be around the views or the type of person the artist who made them was or was involved in it.

[00:27:39] I mean, you know, so what he's saying is yes, these were possibly influence corrupted and made with in collaboration with Sauron. But the beauty and perfection shouldn't be sort of dismissed or their power because of that.

[00:27:57] And you know, you have that across a number of different artists like Wagner, you know, the classical music composer and so on. You know, these same things like a Wagner it was just his is very tutonic.

[00:28:11] It was co-optered by the Nazi's favorite composer of Hitler, but you know, there was themes of tutonic dominance and mythology, but like you know, again, it's kind of like hat to separate the art from the art.

[00:28:27] And although that was kind of quite interesting. And well, particularly in the world today because you know, I would say rings a pair itself. Sufferous from it a bit because there's a lot of reaction to the fact that Jeff Bayes us as the one behind Amazon. He's the one that commissioned the show. He's the one that's paying the million quid.

[00:28:42] Then it costs to produce the show. Yes, he would be someone that would probably be very opposite in a view in views to Gerrard Tolkien who wrote the books. You know, similarly to JK Rowling she wrote famously some amazing children's books, but her opinions and her choices in her lifestyle of which she wants to attack can you separate what she wrote 20 years ago from her opinions now.

[00:29:07] And but it's an interesting discussion to have of this show in this moment. And I guess L runs concern I get the idea that what happens if exactly as opposed as we learned later with the Lord of the Rings, that there is one ring created that controls all of the rings, but in this early moments where there's three rings of power are those rings already being controlled by Sarah and by his impulse.

[00:29:32] It's a really interesting discussion. Do you want to pause here just to welcome Ben Daniels in the role of Sarah Dan here?

[00:29:38] Yeah, absolutely. What a great casting choice. Ben Daniels appeared this season in the second season of the interview of the vampire.

[00:29:46] Yeah, brilliant show and a brilliant role specifically from Ben Daniels who is an absolute shining light in that second season. So good. Really really enjoyed his performance here.

[00:29:56] And here we are two three weeks later he's playing the oldest wisest elf doing a brilliant job here.

[00:30:01] Yeah, absolutely. And interestingly what I kind of enjoyed about this moment were you know effectively, you know, Sarah doesn't go out to destroy the rings at this fisher of an ancient battle.

[00:30:16] But he feasts his eyes on the rings and it stays his hand. He does destroy it.

[00:30:22] And it is a bit like it's it's a fort telling of a sealed or he kind of, but instead of fire, it's water.

[00:30:30] Yeah, I kind of liked this sort of the reflection of that the symmetry of it that seroton.

[00:30:39] His hand is stayed from destroying at least the elven rings. Okay, not the one ring.

[00:30:44] But and I thought that was really really good because you know, the other thing I think on this second tale of Ned Lerth is that you know,

[00:30:54] I like how it makes the elves really complicated in a sense. I think you always see them as, you know, a bit ethereal floaty other than Elrond and with all and sort of debating about how or whether she should remain in middle earth for strider and, you know,

[00:31:25] but then separation themselves to the world of men was exactly choice that was made between these two eras exactly.

[00:31:32] And I kind of like that this shows sort of, I guess the complications of elves because I mean despite that, you know, we still have

[00:31:44] Howlbrand being called out of Sauron, you know, we have a Galagriel saying, you know, he is no man. He appeared in fur form but he is Sauron and then then trying to warm,

[00:31:56] and telling Brimbo about this sending messengers out to Erregyan to warn him, but they don't make it because as, you know, this whole first two episodes that just is even however small it is the influence of howlbrand of Sauron in, I was going to say,

[00:32:26] like how that kind of works really. And because this growing darkness, it is that thing or a small thing, it's little things accumulate up to causing chaos really and or not chaos but leading to sort of bigger,

[00:32:46] bad thing.

[00:32:49] Well, it is interesting and again we're talking about both episodes here by the end of the second episode we've seen some of the power of of the rings themselves.

[00:32:57] The Elvin rings are created to heal all three of them have a healing ability effectively and that can be to the wider world like that is to the trees as we saw them all being restored with the, with the elder power.

[00:33:09] And we also see that they're providing some kind of guidance to collatory as well. She's having dreams of the death of Sauron Borford for example, at the start of the second episode which is another stunning scene that moment where you see Sauron Borford being pulled into a tree.

[00:33:25] It looks like a monument to the other dead elves including her brother. He's being pulled into becoming a monument, becoming a dead dead elf.

[00:33:35] Yeah, and don't think things are going to go so well for Sauron Borford.

[00:33:38] No idea to think so. But by the end of the second episode with these three rings a pair, Gil Galat is looking to start an advance on Mordor now.

[00:33:49] He's looking to start to restart the army of the elves going back to Mordor and take down a dar and taking down where he thinks Sauron is and the, and the oaks that are there.

[00:34:00] Yeah, but I'm also then leading an elite unit to Erick on in order to combat Halbram because it becomes increasingly apparent as they don't hear word from Sauron Borford.

[00:34:12] And all the those messengers that were sent out warning him that Halbram was Sauron have not made it to their intended person. So I kind of like how this all plays out really, you know, the kind of again that also the fight to save Middle Earth is there, you know, to attack Mordor attacks Sauron.

[00:34:37] And, and again, partly here now you have as well Elron's view just breaking through with Gil Galat. Yes, he wants to use the rings, but he's kind of like in the middle in a sense. He wants to use the rings like Galatryl.

[00:34:55] But he's wary of the potential for risk and corruption. And the team that goes to Salon Brimbo heads off by the end of episode two is led by Elron who is kind of the, well, it's the leader and if he doesn't want Galatryl there, he won't have her.

[00:35:18] And yeah, he's quite ruthless, I feel here. Yeah, it does kind of feel like Galatryl is taking all the blame here. Definitely because she's the one that brought Halbram back to Middle Earth and

[00:35:31] I lay it into insinuate himself. I guess into the elvish society and into the creation of these rings, she's taking the full brunt of it. It's not like he's got calling for Salon Brimboer to come to Lindon to answer for his crimes in working with Halbram.

[00:35:46] It's a bach pushing Galatryl down and making sure that she is not allowed in a position of Paragon because look what happened last time when you were the leader of all the armies, you know, that sort of almost seems like now I know this is the arc of Galatryl becoming as powerful as she eventually does over the course of the proposed five seasons that we're going to have of the show. So she will have to go through an arc and she's very tormented within herself about the fact that she left Halbram get back close to her.

[00:36:13] Given that she was on the hunt for Salon right from the beginning of season one. So it's interesting, but that's it. That feels like she's being given all the blame.

[00:36:24] Yeah, no definitely she's taking a lot from both of them and that's why I find really interesting. And how you know she doesn't let that knock her down like she's fighting for both of them are fighting for effectively trying to salvage something here.

[00:36:42] And I like how Ron's approach is that because I think like it is the risk is that those rings have been corrupted.

[00:36:48] Yeah, we don't know for certain or Elron's not convinced that they know for certain that Halbram didn't touch those rings.

[00:36:55] And if it was just Salon Brimble fine.

[00:36:58] And again, they're not clear. They don't know no one knows about the one ring.

[00:37:04] Exactly. That was the corruption that was the ultimate corruption not that the rings in and of themselves that were given to men, to dwarves and to elves were corrupt.

[00:37:18] But another ring was made in secret exactly.

[00:37:21] That also make the controls them and corrupt.

[00:37:24] Absolutely a future problem to deal with. What are the other things? I don't know whether it comes across in the show very well.

[00:37:29] And I was just mentioned, I suppose in the Lord of the Rings and the Appandises in the summer early.

[00:37:37] There are many powerful rings in middle earth. It is a thing. I suppose it's a tool in the same way that we have ones in the wizarding world.

[00:37:48] So they are all aware of powerful rings. These particular three rings are very powerful. That's the whole kind of story here.

[00:37:55] So it would confuse things that was mentioned in the show that there are possibly hundreds of other powerful rings up a type.

[00:38:01] There are focus here on those three rings, the rings for men and the rings for dwarves. That will be created in the future in this story as well.

[00:38:09] I know again, that's another bit of confusion apparently in the original book of sub-eulion.

[00:38:14] The human rings and the dwarf of the shrines were created first. Then the elvestrings here we've swapped that around.

[00:38:20] We've created the elvestrings first because we're focusing on these characters. I suppose that's the choice of the writers for the show to make this a slight flip up from.

[00:38:28] Yeah, and it's interesting because by the end of episode two, we'll get to this with our fifth tale of Middle Earth.

[00:38:35] I like how that is presented to Selenbremble as to why dwarves and men also need rings of power from Halbrand. It makes sense in this way around. So it'd be interesting, and I have to read the original text to see why it would be the other way around.

[00:38:54] Again, that's one of the difficulties we should speak about this. I think we spoke about it last season and season one.

[00:39:00] The billionquid that are cast Amazon to buy the rights to the Lord of the Rings and the appendices only is the Lord of the Rings, the appendices.

[00:39:08] A lot of these stories are in the summer, really. Since they didn't buy the rights to the summer, they do have to actually change up the story because if they didn't buy the rights and then told that story in the TV show.

[00:39:20] Well, they can't. The estate of Tolkien would come after them for another billionquid for the rights to the summer in basically that's kind of what would happen. I would be pretty likely even though another Lord of the that's what would happen.

[00:39:31] So they have to change the story enough that it's only reflective of the appendices of the Lord of the Rings and the Lord of the Rings as a text rather than taking things from from the summer, really. And so we'll have to change from from that original text as opposed.

[00:39:46] So we will get there. I'm sure as the season goes on and how all of these things will be created.

[00:39:52] Yeah, but I think we should move on to tale number three now for something completely different with the staff of the stranger as we have the stranger and nori. Still on their quest to find this constellation of stars in order to bring the stranger.

[00:40:10] I guess some further meaning and motivation for why he is and has fallen to middle of it from space. So again, I love seeing this desert realm in middle earth.

[00:40:26] I was like that in the third movie where you see the courses. You also see with the elephants and there's different races of men from the wilderness or more from the peripheral areas of middle earth that come in support of saueron.

[00:40:42] And you know, this felt like that area and it was great to be in it and to see it. I really enjoyed like a whole number of these things.

[00:40:54] I mean, there's part of me where in a sense, I still like it. But it's part of the story that they're telling at the moment that I want them to hurry up with.

[00:41:03] Yeah, I want them to just say, look, this is Gandalf and so on. However, I really really enjoyed seeing this part of middle earth. And I like the introduction because again, it's just like, oh, who is this in terms of Karen Heinz character this dark wizard.

[00:41:20] That's all he's given over here. And over there he's here. But you're right, it is that moment where you're watching and going, all right, we know it's Gandalf just tell us, Gandalf. Why would you tell us this Gandalf?

[00:41:29] I know it's a couple of thousands years difference when Gandalf was supposed to appear in middle earth. But this is the story that's telling again. We won't harp on about that stuff.

[00:41:37] But as you know, the Gandalf's name is going to be revealed at some point you're in the season they reveal. There's a dark wizard that's following them.

[00:41:44] He also doesn't have a name. He's just a dark wizard. So now you got another character that will take that place of the hidden named evil one instead of the hidden named Goodwin.

[00:41:54] That is that's Gandalf. Or is he good? We don't know. Yeah.

[00:41:56] But I will say your first comment when you saw the desert and viral here that they're walking through was, I thought that relocation to the UK from New Zealand for the filming.

[00:42:06] Where the hell did they find a desert in the UK?

[00:42:09] But I think the headquarters of the production of the UK and has access to that place as to film around Europe and around around the French.

[00:42:16] The way it was reported was that there was going to be using the rolling hills of the Sheffian, so the Coltswell and so the Highlands of Scotland rather than the desert of nowhere in the UK.

[00:42:30] I was like really a bit taken by that from a production point of view.

[00:42:35] I thought this was really good. I liked seeing the visions of the strange. You know, we see him having these visions of that constellation of this staff.

[00:42:45] He ultimately finds and then it's almost like the sword of Gryffindor.

[00:42:51] It came to him when he needed it most. He went in and had to fight off the people who are tracking and following him and ultimately looking to capture him by going after the half-foot of the city.

[00:43:05] He was a member of the group of companions of Nori and Poppy who joins them.

[00:43:11] That was the only bit where it was like, well there's quite convenient that Poppy came with all the texts that effectively now allow them to find their way.

[00:43:18] Is there effectively going around in circles?

[00:43:21] Yes, well okay, well I thought is it is a convenient or is it the fact that they're going around in circles that are led to catch up with them?

[00:43:29] That's true as well. So she's brought these maps, she went back and has come back to Nori and the stranger. They've been going around in circles.

[00:43:37] She probably met them on their sixth or seventh circle and the extra thing that's added is the song that Poppy sang back in season one that lovely scene that she had.

[00:43:48] That song is actually the guidance that allows them to read the maps of the area and pass through safely. It's a story passed down through generations so that anybody who will travel this path will be able to get through.

[00:44:02] I'd like to say, you know, I've always liked these characters a bit more than most periods I think.

[00:44:05] And it's such a big show. I think you're allowed ten minutes with these characters in here on their own journey, which will eventually I'm sure feed into the story quite considerably as the show goes on.

[00:44:19] Oh no, I agree.

[00:44:20] And I'm being a little bit facetious because obviously they are a wandering race and you're right. The fact that they are going around in circles is probably why she catches up.

[00:44:31] But I like it's to her friendship and loyalty to Nori that she's done this, you know. And so good. I'm glad Nori has a companion here in pop.

[00:44:42] Yes, as well as sort of still getting to know the stranger.

[00:44:48] I mean, she's more vocal this season than if that is true.

[00:44:51] And I mean, I do like the fact that the writers know their holding back his name as Gandalf to the point where you have Nori and Poppy trying to give the stranger a name and working out whether it sounds right.

[00:45:05] I kind of like that they're self aware of this absolutely on his response to it being, you know, you can't give me a name when I have my name. It will be my name.

[00:45:13] It's not something you can pass on to me. I have an A-More ready. It's just not revealed to me yet, is the response that he has which I really love that that touch.

[00:45:22] You mentioned about the staff that was in Gandalf's dream and the staff that he tried to use to enable his Paris versus the trackers that were after them.

[00:45:31] I suppose the big thing about that is the staff that's in the dream looks exactly like Gandalf's staff from Peter Jackson's vision of Lord Lorings, the one that has four or five branches at the top of it or four or five twigs at the top of it where he fits in the light when he's in Kazadoon.

[00:45:47] Yeah, so it's another straight staff. It's got a couple of prongs on the top of it effectively.

[00:45:53] The one that he uses in fellowship of the ring.

[00:45:54] Yeah, whereas the one that he collects when they're asked the well is just a hooked piece of wood.

[00:46:01] It's almost like a shepherd's croak.

[00:46:02] Exactly. So I think what they're trying to show or demonstrate with this is the staff is as important to channeling the magic as the magic user themselves.

[00:46:11] So if he has the right staff, he'd be able to guide and create this storm and say just the people that are after.

[00:46:17] Yeah, not everybody in the area being dragged away to who knows where we don't know where Nory and Papi have gone after this massive storm that he's created.

[00:46:25] And he loses control completely of his Paris. So it's a channeling stick is what the staff is effectively used for. So it has to be the right type of stuff.

[00:46:34] And it's like, where's it come from? As I say, it felt like the sort of griffened or because I feel that staff that comes to him the well or is there at the well and he sees it.

[00:46:49] He uses it because he remembers it from a vision so it looks like the same staff in the vision that he had in I guess it was episode one.

[00:46:56] And that's why he has confidence to pick it up and use it but he can't then control it.

[00:47:04] Right. And like he can't stop the magic that's been initiated by him through this and so hence this this kind of whirlwind goes at gets out of hand and bigger and takes not only those trackers, but also takes Nory and Papi right.

[00:47:21] So I felt that's what prompted him to use that in their defense from these people.

[00:47:29] And I think the vision that he's having of the constellation is telling him this is where he needs to go to get the staff that he needs to use and when he gets here and sees a staff,

[00:47:39] he uses it thinking maybe any staff will work maybe any piece of wood that I channeled my Paris through will help but what happens here is he's channeling it through the wrong channeling tool.

[00:47:48] He's certainly channeling it through the wrong tool. I does not say that the constellation is not where he will find his staff but certainly the vision had the same staff to me.

[00:47:59] Right, so what I saw right.

[00:48:01] I didn't I thought it looks like I had more it was more prongy and more than one piece of everything from the time.

[00:48:07] Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. But anyway, like so it's interesting I think the other interesting side here is the dark quizzes who say,

[00:48:14] you're not laid by Karen Heinz at Kariscare, his stronghold which I kind of really enjoyed like the simplicity of it. You know when you look at it and what this means I was there going to you know,

[00:48:27] Oh is this this is this, is this ceremony?

[00:48:31] I don't know there was sort of vibes a ceremony. It was a ceremony dark wizard before maybe then he turned to the light and then back to the day.

[00:48:42] But yeah, or you can see this is true and purpose from the stranger if and when they meet and but I kind of liked this because we see that he was using those three witches you know to track him and so on.

[00:48:55] So like he is a word of the, um,

[00:48:59] is star having arrived and that he is not fully kind of formed in terms of what he knows and how he is possibly to become.

[00:49:10] Maybe he sees it as a point to shape him and bring him onto his side but I kind of liked this to the added notion here.

[00:49:19] Yeah, also like the morphe just because the servant that he conjured up from the blows and bossifies resources greater fact.

[00:49:26] Yeah, well, there was a really cool effect was I think we eventually were calling the Runec structures was the, with the name of this was the doller was yes.

[00:49:35] The doller that was of the three structures. I like the fact that the morphe will mask says, well, I can guess him.

[00:49:43] Uh-huh. And I will guess him by going after his small companions.

[00:49:51] Yeah. And I can't like that, you know.

[00:49:53] Yeah, and you know, like the dark wizard's response going, did I waste all my time restoring you from from your next thing when this guy could have just started it for me?

[00:50:02] Yeah, yeah. Like that playing is playing his emissaries or his searchers off against each other.

[00:50:08] So it was really good. I mean, ultimately in the end, you know, it's that they are separated by, you know, by the end of episode two.

[00:50:16] Exactly from from it's Nory and Poppy and then the strange thing has lost.

[00:50:22] Has lost them by, you know, losing the run of himself with his magic.

[00:50:26] Yep. Yeah, wrong stuff.

[00:50:27] And the staff disintegrates as well. So it's lost now. Yeah.

[00:50:31] So maybe he's got it. It's like a sweet shop. What?

[00:50:34] Oh, it's picking your walls like all the vendors. Exactly.

[00:50:37] Exactly.

[00:50:39] Right. Jumping in after recording and we bumped back and checked the episode because it's very unusual for the tours to be contentious and I guess that's specific thing that we saw on screen.

[00:50:47] And so we were both right in the vision that the stranger had. He does see a kind of a crook version of the staff.

[00:50:53] And he also sees the staff as we saw it in Lord the Rings, the Gandalf held.

[00:50:57] So he sees it morphing a few times and then he touches it and he has a vision like he would through the Palantir.

[00:51:02] So weirdly both of us are exactly the same thing. So we're both right. I like that.

[00:51:07] But I just wanted to mention it in case anybody was wondering why the two of us were so confused to a bush back to the regular podcast.

[00:51:13] Yeah. I think we can move on to our fourth tale of Middle-earth. I think we can.

[00:51:17] Yes, our fourth tale. The dwarves of Kazadume, the return of some of our favourite characters, Disa and Duran IV.

[00:51:25] That little Fatiha said the show.

[00:51:26] Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:51:29] And I was so pleased that they brought the singing to the mountain.

[00:51:36] Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:51:37] I also love Disa having to navigate a really stubborn father.

[00:51:41] So my friends, friends, Dora the third and I'm happy in those.

[00:51:45] Or pretty tired of the fourth there. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:51:49] Yeah. Always going to love that it's kind of my old phrase, Jonathan, that came from my dad of the Rode Electric.

[00:51:55] Which is exactly what Disa basically says to King Duran, we're just going, you know, you're just a stubborn as your son is.

[00:52:02] That's why he's not coming to you and that's why you're not going to him.

[00:52:05] And if you call them to you, you will be able to bury the axe.

[00:52:09] A proper door of him phrase, right? I mean, something different to bury the axe.

[00:52:13] I'm very in the hatch as I guess, as we would call it.

[00:52:17] But yes, here we learn that the rising of Mordor and the continual outpouring of effectively of lava has shook down Kazadume.

[00:52:28] It stopped the light coming in. It's blocked all the pastures from outside.

[00:52:32] It's caused an earthquake effectively.

[00:52:36] Trying to figure out at least at this moment in time in the second season, is this sower on utilising the world around him with, you know,

[00:52:45] the fact he didn't initiate the creation of Mount Doom.

[00:52:50] But he's using that in order to sort of link his plans together.

[00:52:56] Given that we see the dwarves, ultimately by the end of the episode two, being called to Arrayon and to see Kalimba Mordor.

[00:53:07] What I kind of really like here is that, you know, what actually happens here on Kazadume is a complete catastrophe because it destroys all the light tunnels

[00:53:16] that are used to effectively allow an underground race to cultivate crops and feed themselves.

[00:53:26] And so what you have is all the gardens that were fed with the light from these mirrors through the sun shafts, have with it.

[00:53:38] And so in a sense, this is a real issue for the kingdom of Kazadume, the end of King Duran.

[00:53:46] And I kind of like this kind of that unsettling of different power bases that is happening.

[00:53:54] And to me, like, this is interesting, is this sower on using the world around him to do that?

[00:54:02] Or is this just a happenstance? But I think given that you have that deliberate call to Arrayon and also the fact that you do have sower on manipulating Kalimba Mordor by the end to include the rings of power for the dwarves and the men.

[00:54:22] And so this is somehow connected. It's a bit like with the messengers from Lindon that you see being killed and stopped on their way to Arrayon.

[00:54:33] But by who? Is it Halbrand here after he's sort of been let go from a dog's continuity or is it all the way to the dog somehow loyal to him?

[00:54:45] Because that's the thing with a dog. It's clearly the orcs still have this notion that Sauron is bad for them.

[00:54:52] Absolutely, but they don't know he's sat around and remember Halbrand pitched his case to Arrayon that he would go to Arrayon.

[00:54:58] That's true.

[00:54:59] That's true.

[00:54:59] So maybe he's taken some works along with him on the road to block the path.

[00:55:05] That's from anybody that may be warning, sort of, but you just see the messengers being dragged off and it's like, okay.

[00:55:11] Who are these servants? Well, is it Halbrand himself? You know, again, so maybe just helping to intensify his the form that he can take.

[00:55:22] Exactly.

[00:55:23] But I better do think this scenes in and Casaduma are really important of what's going on within the society, the dwarves themselves as you say they've lost access to their food source.

[00:55:34] And last season we saw Duran on willing to work with Elrond and willing to work with the elves, so not willing to work with any any race outside of the dwarves.

[00:55:42] And now it's coming back kind of to bite them because they're losing access to all this stuff, there's a conversation between Dysen and her husband where she says to him, you know, if only someone was willing to reach an ancient and maybe get support, maybe we could build up enough stock to keep our workers working.

[00:55:58] Well, that's it. It's again, I love how these different things sort of run parallel, you know, that that stubbornness of King Duran from engaging with other races like the elves is mirrored on the small scale by him, you know, to stop them to say sorry or to approach his own son and vice versa.

[00:56:22] Yeah, exactly. And I can it is and it's that gradual undermining of his power by the fact that suddenly he is the king that cannot supply as a quote through to his populace and they are having to sort of look for different ways to combat that you know there is as Dysen does, you know, the silence of the mountain she can no longer communicate this.

[00:56:50] I mean, again, it's just fabulous where her and her two companions, you know, to the three of them these mountain singers, you know, all singing it seems to sort of be working and then it fails.

[00:57:02] So it's the first time they say in however many hundreds of years that the fails to communicate to have that relationship with the mountain has gone silent.

[00:57:16] And it does speak to kind of a wider story within the Lord of the Rings and it's a question for me once I saw these scenes and what happened there, I loved it. I must say the music would be beautiful and the actually plays D says a trained opera singer.

[00:57:28] And which can absolutely tell beautiful scene, but we know in the Lord of the Rings books that the dwarves haven't seen the dwarf wives in many many years at this stage.

[00:57:39] Given that the role of the dwarf wives seems here to be that they are singers to the mountain.

[00:57:45] I wonder if this silence of the mountain here is what causes them to to leave and what causes them to gather together and leave or is it something to do with the power of men within the dwarven race pushes them away.

[00:57:59] As we see D, so having to deal with the stoverness of her father and law and her husband, maybe that's what drives the the female dwarf.

[00:58:05] Yeah, as I say you know these stones singers have failed for the first time in centuries and they say the bond is broken between them and the mountain.

[00:58:17] The darkness now surrounds Kazakhstan. Dooms is how deezor puts it.

[00:58:22] If there is stubborn with their own siblings, then why would we need dwarven women? You know that kind of notion you see them being equally stubborn is like well you can no longer perform as the stone singers of Kazakhstan.

[00:58:39] You know you know you know you. Effectively they become economic migrants because they just are on on needed there.

[00:58:49] But I do want to reference just one other thing in this point of the dwarves.

[00:58:53] So as I said in the Lord of the Rings we know that there are no dwarves and dwarven women have disappeared.

[00:59:01] But did have you noticed this that in the first two seasons now we haven't seen any children of the dwarves even though their reference quite a lot.

[00:59:08] Yeah, Disa talks to her father and law and he says I miss seeing the kids and we've never seen the children of the dwarves.

[00:59:16] So I wonder is that just that in joke in this show referencing the future comment about the about the dwarven wives being missing.

[00:59:25] So the kids aren't seen either. So just as a little background joke there anything else about the dwarves it does do more anything else about the dwarves they're job.

[00:59:32] No, I'm again, I'm pleased that they've come in now. I think it'll be interesting to see how King and Prince Durin take up this call to an arrived.

[00:59:45] And possibly the deal for rings of power.

[00:59:50] I'm given King Durin was supposed to work in with our under. I'm not sure whether you will work with the Southern Rimbour but the invites interestingly went to Disa and Dorotheforth.

[01:00:02] Yeah, exactly. And also I do think that this is part of the plan. This is the predicament that you know it's not rosy for Kazak Dume here they have lost their own source of production here for food and so it's kind of desperate times desperate.

[01:00:23] Exactly. So it has the fit, the darkness, this reference to the darkness. It has the fingerprints of Sarah and trying to manipulate to get the outcome that he wants.

[01:00:33] Yes, for them to say yes, we will take a dwarven ring of power. And if one falls that the other dwarves will want them because you get the set and whilst maybe not as corruptible in the elves minds compared to humans or the race of men.

[01:00:53] It is that the dwarves in the sense of very much siloed in their kingdoms of power underneath their mountains and they want to make sure that they are on an equal with their.

[01:01:07] Even if it's the relatives, you know, they want to maintain that equity. So if one has one the others will want them, you know, and then kind of like that.

[01:01:18] Yeah, I feel like with man as well, but then man will use it. Well, I want he's yes, well, exactly exactly so I kind of enjoy is having the the dwarves back again absolutely wouldn't find a thing I just want to mention on here on here.

[01:01:35] I hadn't realized how much cutting off during the fourth actually meant last season when they had that argument when the king and prince fought that he was taking away his rights to be the next in line to the throne.

[01:01:48] And we see Dorit here working in the mines and being tormented by the other the other mining dwarves for basically having soft hands because he was a politician rather than a minor.

[01:01:59] Yeah, exactly. So actually he's fallen that far that he's working the mines and so yeah, interesting.

[01:02:06] And let's get on to our final tale though, that tale five from Saran to Halbrand to Alatar and Emissary of the Valar.

[01:02:13] Yeah, I mean this is interesting. I mean, we talked a little bit about it as we've gone along we mentioned this idea that the opening the episode is the arrival of Saran Saran becomes Halbrand goes back to Adara's captured by Adara and fights his way out effectively as Halbrand.

[01:02:33] He doesn't reference the fact of course that he's Sarah, only doesn't want to reveal his hand there but he gets his way out of there by negotiating with Adara eventually.

[01:02:42] Yeah, but again it's he on settles the dog by suggesting that Sarah lives even though they know.

[01:02:48] Yeah, Adara knows that he thrust the pointy crown into his hair and a thousand stabbing horses.

[01:02:57] So again, it's it's the unsettling it's knocking them off balance to do things that they wouldn't necessarily have been doing or to change their objectives here.

[01:03:08] And you know it allows him to effectively to be allowed to leave there in order then to serve as he says the Lord of Mordor to the end of his days and I like how he phrases that to Adara.

[01:03:24] Yeah, that he's more than willing to serve Adara whilst he lives.

[01:03:29] Absolutely, but it's not to say whether he will be neutral as to whether he lives or not.

[01:03:33] So again, nice little turn of phrase though.

[01:03:37] Here's another great one as well with the the turncoat that we saw from season one the guy that actually started the arrival of make doom I guess.

[01:03:45] That's why he says to him I will kill you before I leave here and set the beast up and set the beast free before he leaves and as as the turncoat comes into his cave.

[01:03:56] But joking I got away with it. It's fine and we see the beast coming out of the darkness to kill him.

[01:04:01] It would really like to start. So again, however, and as a person that owns a phrase he knows how to have a great turn of phrase in the way that he says things you can never believe the actual.

[01:04:11] Direct words that are coming out of his mouth. You have to look for the the consequence underneath or what hit the mean the true meaning is underneath but yes he does have another persona.

[01:04:20] By the end of this episode he's gone to Region. Sitting outside the door waiting for a son of a brim board to let him in.

[01:04:30] So the brim board knowing that he shouldn't treat with how brand doesn't let him in.

[01:04:34] I like the works is his little magic with the with the right hand woman of the son of a brim board shows her the show to his back mistakenly you know by mistake.

[01:04:44] He's gone through some awful things maybe we should take him in just to the heads of healing for a while and sort of out. That'll be okay. And then we can send him off on his way you know that's the initial way that he's trying to work his his magic to get into selling brim board and eventually sell the brim board comes out to talk.

[01:05:00] Yeah I like to.

[01:05:01] I like someone's determination here just to sort of sit his house.

[01:05:04] You know to the point where it's like it's selling brim board who blinks first.

[01:05:09] Exactly and you have a hand, but you have hand around his way not only into a Region but back with Kalen brim board even though he should know not to treat with him.

[01:05:23] And I like how he kind of you know on two fronts and it does that. He makes a point that Kalen brim board because he's made sure that the messengers don't reach him then he knows nothing that the three rings he's already made have actually worked to save linden.

[01:05:41] And it's also that he pushes the then versus all kind of line to have them all that will they have them they've used and they're taking the glory for the light of the law returning.

[01:05:58] Yes we you know we talked it was faded.

[01:06:00] Yeah we talked about the separation of the art and artists of your own in the in the episode with Seridan here at Kalen brim board.

[01:06:07] It seems like they're talking about the use of a IR people taking the glory from the artist and using it for their own purpose to say how great am I even though they're there.

[01:06:16] Exactly the artist themselves and given the artist no credit and and interestingly as we mentioned about the oven rings those three rings went to Seridan to Gilgala's anticoladio no question as to whether son of brim board should have been wearing one of three things.

[01:06:37] You know even glad you're there self is she the more tire position she is the leader of the army so I guess that's the reason why she gets hers.

[01:06:44] Seridan being the eldest and go that being the hiking I guess almost like he's trying to sort of bring the concept of class warfare.

[01:06:54] Yes it's kind of like yes you are an amazing artist you are the most highly rated sort of metal worker in middle earth for you're still a smithy.

[01:07:04] Exactly and that's what they're treating you as is this smithy.

[01:07:08] You know there's that element so it's creating it out again it's the unsettling it's the knocking off kilter you know and even then persuading him to create more rings for dwarves and men.

[01:07:22] To the point where he you know as you say becomes this anotard this messenger and emmerace emissary from valenor.

[01:07:32] In order that the dwarves and men need it as well to stop the darkness that is coming to middle earth not just the elves that they you know the rings and needed to protect the realms of elves dwarves and men.

[01:07:46] Yes I mean the Christ like imagery of him coming from the thernus as well amazing absolutely absolutely.

[01:07:54] And he presented almost as a reward for celebrate for the work that he's done with the valer of specifically chosen him to be the one that brings the rings a pair or two or two middle earths to help the other races you know it's almost like.

[01:08:06] They're ignoring you up in the high castle and here we are.

[01:08:10] The valer have sent me specifically to you to help you create to reach your full potential effectively to create these rings so.

[01:08:18] Yes the the devious is deviousness of of anotard and of saron in that form.

[01:08:24] Yeah absolutely yeah really good love us just read what a great setup.

[01:08:28] Yeah it's really and it's a little bit tension that's crazy here and across middle earth and really really good yeah and that brings to the end I guess of our five tales from the first two episodes of the lord of the rings of the ring's a parody into anything else you want to mention anything we didn't call it.

[01:08:47] The only thing I kind of wanted to mention is I keep calling them or some potentially goblins but a dark calls them the lord is the lord father of the orcs.

[01:08:58] That's how it's described really is not a archive that's such a.

[01:09:02] And we're creating as you see I guess in by by saron man and although maybe they were but it's interesting and you know the turn or a still there's a maybe an ancient form of or.

[01:09:19] Yeah and goblins are kind of more connected with the dwarves but goblins are very different yeah there are different race altogether yeah so.

[01:09:28] Yeah interesting yeah yes but I know I've been mentioning them as orcs throughout this but I think saron says that in the speech says many orcs will die so I wonder if that's a distinction that a dara is placing on this.

[01:09:43] This ruling class of the of the orcs there that when the followers ever dara called orcs maybe that might be something might be something to do with that and but again you know this is a very complex story with lots of different names for different characters and lots of different names are different races as well so.

[01:09:59] Maybe that's something else that would be fleshed out at the season because on as well absolutely really good overall though John did enjoy these two of the premier episodes of rings apparently.

[01:10:09] I absolutely really enjoyed episode one to I thought they kind of came out swinging really and you know whether it's the back story of saron which I actually I didn't realize I need it I mean it's almost a shame that saron is behind.

[01:10:24] It is his suit of armor and helmets in the Lord of the Rings because like this kind of you know coming in you know a form that is fair and sort of manipulating people is really sort of you know you see the the depths of his deception and his coming.

[01:10:43] Yeah as to why he has this myth in the Lord of the Rings and I just really really enjoy having enjoyed that.

[01:10:52] I love the the elves again not all is rosy in the world of the elves even though the light of valentor has returned to the tree at the dwarves again that predicament seemingly having a different trajectory to.

[01:11:11] The elves because at least for Kazak Doom and again I just really love this interplay between the different races and this kind of perceived master puppeteer of saron comes to Elrond and I guess Gil go out as well you know that they're afraid that gladial.

[01:11:32] And has been affected by the saron or Halbrands deception in a calm face him alone it's still that the whole.

[01:11:44] Presence of his name and creates wobbles in the world and I think Elrond has this sort of you know.

[01:12:18] And I think that's why I'm what he tasted.

[01:12:25] Well he could have sucked it up to a straw of the thing.

[01:12:28] I could have just the surprise knocked it out of his hand which is surprising to us and I love these two episodes once again I'll recommit myself as a rings of power for him and loving the story they tell I love the costumes the sense the design the characters the acting is fabulous and the music is so good really excited to see what we're going to get as the season goes on this is just such a great way to open it up and we didn't even get to the third episode that was at that premiered on the opening day of on on prime video.

[01:12:57] So lots more stories to tell really looking forward to getting through the rest of the season out the show as well.

[01:13:04] Yeah, but we do have some feedback in from our wonderful fellow ringers.

[01:13:08] Yes we have gotten some email feedback through for on episode one from Robert Williams says oh I've missed you guys life has been busy but I'm glad to be able to get back to my fellow middle earth brethren here.

[01:13:22] John I hope the back is feeling better. Thank you so much Robert yeah it's it's getting slowly for surely and for sure but it is starting to feel a little bit more alive and maybe I need a ring of power maybe to help sort it out and Robert says quick thought what happened to the open credit scene you might have already talked about this I know this was a big deal to other fans wondering why they removed this.

[01:13:52] Yes in the first episode there wasn't an opening credit scene but it had come back by the second episode and it had changed and it seems more game of thrones like now in the idea that they're moving across the map of the middle earth and the dark sand is kind of more ready.

[01:14:10] It's like a rust color rather than black like it wasn't the first one so yeah definitely changes to the opening credit sequence but it wasn't in the first one and Robert's only just watch one episode exactly just come back it comes back for episode two

[01:14:23] That beautiful music is back again from how it actually works really good Robert continues are there any big storylines you're hoping they will show in the season.

[01:14:33] I'm hoping they will show the making of the other rings. I'd leave seven for men and five for dwarves. I think in the films that are created before the three rings of power for the elves but I'm not entirely certain. What happened to the x-ray notes those are really interesting in season one expand on what I was watching or did I just miss it.

[01:14:55] Last note will they explain what each ring can do do they have different powers? What does it mean power over the men?

[01:15:03] Okay, that's it for me. Thank you for the time to ask questions. I can't wait to hear what you think and what our fellow middle earthers think take care of Jens Robert from South Carolina.

[01:15:15] Thanks so much Robert. Yeah, I think I like you. I want to see them actually make the rings now.

[01:15:23] Yeah, so I think it's seven for dwarves, seven rings for dwarves and nine for men. That's right. Yeah, so I think definitely won't see those created and a bit like yourself Robert, I really kind of want to know you know do these rings have individual powers or do they all kind of work together collectively just for that race for example. So you know the coming together of the three elven rings that restored the light of Valar

[01:15:51] and is that when they come together that's what they can do can they go further than that. But I think we've had a little bit of a hint at least from seroton where we see it influencing life and yes, it was just the fishes in the pool.

[01:16:10] So I have a answer for this. Oh, go on. Okay, because I did look it up and I was wrong earlier on they do have individual powers at least the elven rings do. So the elven rings are three of the elements there are fire water and there is what they represent so

[01:16:24] Galag is the fire element she's the fire still all the elements we've seen so far and she does have an additional liability with her ring which is Narya which could we kindle hearts with this fire and inspires of their and inspire others to resist tyranny and dominion.

[01:16:43] And then yeah, which is the the one that we see seroton use uses that in water and it has a secret power and water that protects it from evil while it's underwater and

[01:16:53] Vilia which is the one that Gilgile ad wears it heals and preserves wisdom in its element in the air. So they all have those three do have individual powers and wouldn't that be great if that was in an x-ray note.

[01:17:06] Oh, absolutely yeah that the the dwarven rings which again we haven't seen with one heard mentioned of them here in the second episode and those ones are are to gain wealth they are to bring wealth together effectively when used when used together.

[01:17:18] And that's the purpose of them and then the rings from men have invisibility which we've seen in in the Lord of the Rings we've seen invisibility coming from them they give extended life span as well and they create terror.

[01:17:31] Interesting so yes, so we'll see how they handle that in the rings a power in the future as well. But yes, all have different have different powers overall which is be created by by settlement born.

[01:17:47] Excellent but yes you mentioned about the extra notes the action notes as far as I remember in season one they did come along with a came along after the show came out a few days or maybe even weeks after the show came out.

[01:17:56] But it is weird not seeing them here a show produced like a show with the biggest show produced by prime video which feels like you really want to go in depth into them the boys always have them on their episodes you would see everything from where the song that they were playing in the background where that was coming from to where at what inspiration they took from the comic books.

[01:18:16] You would expect that have a lot of that for something as in depth as the rings are powered so hopefully they will return the future that they're just a little behind us.

[01:18:24] Well, as we've said always been slightly under use lies the x-ray notes by prime for any of their shows me even where they then use them I mean I think the boys probably and maybe it's down to the show runner and maybe they have to consciously be thinking that they want to have that again.

[01:18:42] But they're also only available and competed not available through all the other apps that's a time video of them.

[01:18:48] I've got a check them a couple days ago, they weren't up there yet so we'll see if they return I hope to do so do really like them.

[01:18:56] Excellent thanks Robas.

[01:18:57] Thanks so much Robas and also an episode one copy and Vodka's here at his thoughts he says greetings fellow pre fellowship fellows.

[01:19:02] A seron year one was well done even knowing how right he was I still wanted to slap our rund in the next week and of course good doggy.

[01:19:11] I had sight of not knowing the intricacies of Halbran seron's plans or the identity of whoever's following everyone's favorite hard foot everything was refreshing me easy to follow this time so far so really very good.

[01:19:21] If a bit too literally dark from what to the episode 4.5 true rings beat all juices and gilded gut ladrules 8 or 5 piece and take care of coffee and vodka ps get well soon John.

[01:19:34] Thank you so much coffee and vodka yet certainly on the men here so thanks for the wishes as with Robas as well.

[01:19:42] Yeah much appreciate it.

[01:19:43] I didn't find this in the photography too dark in the first episode.

[01:19:47] I can't remember that I mean maybe underwater maybe but yeah I mean certainly dark themes yeah absolutely but.

[01:19:58] Yeah me not necessarily.

[01:20:01] Yep but really like your points there coffee vodka particularly your racing says always really enjoy this.

[01:20:06] Yeah absolutely glad you enjoyed the episode coffee vodka.

[01:20:11] Thanks so much and moving on to our Facebook feedback.

[01:20:15] And when Carver Holtz tells and says hi Derek and John I hope you're enjoying season 2.

[01:20:21] I love the slithery slimy sour on remains coalescing into human form.

[01:20:26] It was especially creepy when listen to with headphones.

[01:20:29] So it and the ship right was everything I hoped for.

[01:20:34] I did not enjoy gilded gilded finger wagging.

[01:20:37] You told Gilded Ril off and not finding sour on now he tells her off for finding sour on.

[01:20:44] And looking forward to catching up with the other threads of the story next episode.

[01:20:48] I missed the dwarves and the beautiful Arondier.

[01:20:51] Yes that's true actually we've not had our Arondier yet new or sealed or the new minerals in general.

[01:21:01] Yeah and but she said at least we got the dwarves coming in with the wonderful Disa and her stone singing as well as the stubborn durians and.

[01:21:13] Exactly really good to have them back.

[01:21:15] But I do think streamlining is probably the best way to go when you're going into a second season all the characters are established here.

[01:21:21] We know they're going to return most of the Middle East are going to return for the second season so so you can spread them out especially if you have a three episode premiere like that it is here so.

[01:21:30] Definitely and a bit like yourself and I didn't realize I needed to see the slithery slimy sour on sort of becoming corporal again and sort of real animation so good and.

[01:21:43] You know such a good sort of link to the horror genre for me yeah and always good to see that absolutely absolutely great stuff.

[01:21:53] Thanks so much I'm going to free thoughts the great thing about jumping out to record the podcast now is that I'm able to go and listen to other podcasts later on the rings because I haven't been able to yet some really looking forward to hearing.

[01:22:01] I'm one in pennies podcast over on podcast to get really looking forward to hearing.

[01:22:04] Absolutely great on seeing him one and thanks so much for that.

[01:22:08] Let's pop it over to Dr. Bob Phillips on his thoughts on Facebook he says powerful reintroduction to the seduction of parlor with this episode the whispering influence of the rings and Elrond's fight against it had me thinking he'd go off trail but rest with himself by the end.

[01:22:22] Cracking storyline with a direct coming up and a good reminder of the need to hang draw quarter and cramace your enemies.

[01:22:29] Not just that multiple times indeed if it was in the world whether we're firearms to double tap with the shop.

[01:22:36] Absolutely and maybe drop into the fiery piss of may do as well.

[01:22:42] Thanks thanks Bob.

[01:22:43] Well that's true actually because the rings are not created here yet in lot of the rings.

[01:22:49] Sour on his destroyed because he's thrown his malice into the that is why we remember the one ring hasn't been created yet that's the last thing to be.

[01:22:57] How would you kill I guess you could still truck him into a volcano and that would be also pretty it was the fact that they allowed his dark blood to leak through into a pool underneath the the citadel that they were in in the mountains.

[01:23:14] So it was able to form again I did actually feel sorry for a rat for the first time sort of just squeaking about his business and then just kind of got the thing as I say I do think it was like John Carpenter's thing that that bit.

[01:23:27] Yeah absolutely.

[01:23:29] Excellent thanks Dr Bob.

[01:23:31] Finally on episode two coffee invocers say greetings fellow first age to still defend his well yes I am feeling a little distilled at the moment and.

[01:23:42] Coffee invocers you want to get lost in the grandness of it all but wonder instead at the cost as you see every penny on the screen gorgeous.

[01:23:50] And now that it could finally be heard made for another completely stuffed and beautiful instalment so if you're no mevets princess diesel was the star this time around kingdom my ass.

[01:24:03] Casac doom is a matriarch you a seduction of southern rainbow was believably played out an elrond again though right continues his descent into as holy.

[01:24:15] Lots more stuff really loving the season so far also there's so much Turkish infancy movies and shows case in point anatar seems to be the respelling of.

[01:24:27] Anatar same pronunciation but spell eight and a hta r which means key to see you next episode five overblins spells sauronic slaves and slumming saramands out of five piece and take care.

[01:24:43] Coffee invocers. Thanks so much coffee invocers. Yeah interesting similarities there with an anatar and the Turkish.

[01:24:55] Name which means key on the same pronunciation. Yeah, that's really interesting. I like yourself. I'm kind of.

[01:25:06] I guess that's the only thing I do think he is right. I just never thought I would align with that and because I still want him and glad she'll be friends.

[01:25:17] Well absolutely not. I guess that's why they're setting up so that's why we see them in the Lord of the ring through in separate kingdoms you know she has her own kingdom and lothrory and he has his own kingdom and riven down and he's also a ring bearer at that stage as well.

[01:25:31] I'm not being long gone as we could probably guess so I guess he gets he gets skill glads ring in the future but you know or serenance maybe.

[01:25:40] Or serenance ring of course he could get serenance ring and but I suppose that's the thing you do have to have that antagonistic side between those two characters.

[01:25:48] They both think they're in the right here and he probably also feels betrayed a bit by Halberland. He did work with a collager Alan and was working with Halberland for a time as well.

[01:26:01] Yeah, but Galavis you'll seem to be getting all the blame.

[01:26:03] That's definitely mentioned as opposed to that anybody else going. I was also taken in by Halberland you were right there and she seems to be getting the blame.

[01:26:11] What I do also love from coffee vodka there and I like that's I can say how's it doing is a matriarchy because yes, the the child is prince and king might think they're in charge but dc is absolutely the one that is pulling the strings in the cousin do.

[01:26:33] I mean, I think these are princess ds from season one just like wow wow so good and yeah continues through just so far as performance.

[01:26:49] So good at being the almost the I mean she is the hand packs why resolve these two I mean she's got.

[01:26:59] She's got the patience of a saint really yes, she does she's brought it to absolutely brilliant.

[01:27:03] I keep forgetting every time I watch the show I keep forgetting that king do run his plate by a major character actor guy from I can from train spotting.

[01:27:12] Yeah, no you see them it's even real life. It's a complete surprise but thank you so much for joining us once again. Thank you so much for all of your feedback keeps on getting into us email us to feedback at tv podcast industry.com or you can pop on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash TV podcast industries if you're living the show we'd love to hear your thoughts about it.

[01:27:32] We will be back next time talking about episode three the eagle in the chapter and episode four eldest and then we should be back on track pretty much with the show played.

[01:27:41] Exactly indeed thanks so much fellow wringers great to be back on the podcast great to be talking about the rings of power for his second season also to know that we are covering the final season of the umbrella academy on Netflix that is Derek and

[01:28:01] Chris one saying, Lairacle about the final season that really disappointed I can't I couldn't be on the final season for umbrella academy because I do like it.

[01:28:14] Yes, it was great fun to cover the last season of umbrella academy really enjoyed our chat debate for some unfortunately it wasn't a 300 at this time just myself and Chris but thanks so much if you want to go and find that you can find it over on our website at tv podcast industry.com

[01:28:30] But finally once again, thank you so much for joining us will speed to you again next time yes. Thank you so much fellow wringers for joining us for our coverage of episode one and two of this season's the rings of power as always until next time keep watching keep listening and of course don't stray from the bye bye.