The Rings of Power S2 Wrap-Up Crossover Pt 2

[00:00:00] This is the Lord of the Rings Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We're back talking about the Rings of Power for Part 2 of our Season 2 Wrap-Up.

[00:00:08] It must be nearly a noontide. One used to hear the kingfishes flying to the river. It is a pity how you have silenced them.

[00:00:25] All I have done has been for you. Yours was the fire that crafted the marvels of the age. I wish only to share them with the world.

[00:00:44] But the rings are beyond your reach, as I shall be ere long. For soon I shall go to the shores of the morning, borne hence by a wind that you can never follow.

[00:01:40] Welcome back to our Circle Fellow Ringers. This is our Rings of Power podcast. We're talking about the second part of our Season 2 Rappel.

[00:01:47] I'm Derek. I'm one of your hosts.

[00:01:49] Hello there, fellow ringers. I am one of your other hosts, Jon, and we are joined by our wonderful friends from Podcastica.

[00:01:56] Hi, I'm another one of your hosts today, Anwen.

[00:01:59] And I am rounding out the group. I'm Penny.

[00:02:02] If you haven't heard part one of our chat all about the Rings of Power Season 2, it's available over on Podcastica.com on the Cast of the Rings feed.

[00:02:10] We chatted all about our favourite characters in Season 2 and a pretty in-depth discussion.

[00:02:15] Very in-depth, yes. Really covering all the bases of all the characters in Season 2.

[00:02:23] Absolutely. And as we said, we are delighted to be joined by our friends from over on Podcastica.

[00:02:28] Anwen, do you want to tell us a little bit about our Cast of the Rings podcast?

[00:02:31] Sure. Well, Penny and I have been podcasting on Cast of the Rings for just over two years.

[00:02:36] We started before the first season of The Rings of Power with a bit of lead-up.

[00:02:40] We've covered Season 1. Since then, we've covered The Lord of the Rings, the three Peter Jackson movies, and a couple of other bits and pieces.

[00:02:49] And just recently wrapped up Season 2 as well, which we have really enjoyed.

[00:02:53] And we're part of the greater podcast family of Podcastica.com.

[00:02:58] And we're just super excited to be here today and podcasting together with the two of you who are in our ears lots of the time.

[00:03:06] It's so much fun. We've been listening to each other for the two years, and we've been chatting to each other.

[00:03:11] We know each other through Podcastica. I should say that because we're all Walking Dead fans, and we all kind of met through that.

[00:03:17] But this is the first time we've all been podcasting together, so delightful to have us all chatting about The Rings of Power.

[00:03:23] On this episode, we're going to be discussing our favourite scenes and sequences of the season, and some of our hopes for Season 3.

[00:03:29] So I think we'll kick off with our favourite scenes and sequences or aspects.

[00:03:33] Anwen, do you want to kick us off with your favourite part of the season?

[00:03:38] Sure. I actually really want to get started by talking about The Law.

[00:03:42] And I have just really loved that the showrunners have struck a great balance between making it easy to understand for the people who haven't read the books or seen the movies a million times like we have,

[00:03:53] and putting in little treasures for those who know The Law really well.

[00:03:58] I think that's not easy, and I think they've done a really good job of nailing that balance, with some small exceptions like stringing us along with who Gandalf is,

[00:04:08] which we've already covered in the first half.

[00:04:10] But, you know, I've really enjoyed delving into The Law as each episode comes up as well.

[00:04:15] It's so much fun to remind myself of all the background information, getting into all of my copies of the books, putting in my little post-it notes and making notes in the margin.

[00:04:26] I have just finished reading The Silmarillion for the first time cover to cover.

[00:04:30] I have dipped in and out of it and read individual chapters many times over the years, but this was my first time going front to back, and it was really awesome.

[00:04:39] It was great to sort of read this alongside while watching The Rings of Power Season 2.

[00:04:46] Some of the things that have been really interesting that I noted, one of the moments when Calabrumbor, right at the end, calls Sauron a shadow of Morgoth.

[00:04:55] That's directly from The Silmarillion, where Sauron is described as a shadow of Morgoth.

[00:05:00] Love that they threw that little tidbit in there for us.

[00:05:04] Another point was the elves at the Watchtower in Season 1 being suspicious of men.

[00:05:11] There's a section in The Silmarillion during the War of Wrath where it's described,

[00:05:15] but a great part of the sons of men, whether of the people of Uldor or others newcomen out of the East,

[00:05:21] marched with the enemy, and the elves do not forget it.

[00:05:24] And I love that because, again, it shows that kind of depth of knowledge that the showrunners had and the writers had

[00:05:29] when they were talking about the suspicions that the elves had for the men of the Southlands.

[00:05:37] We've got Curran saying to Elrond,

[00:05:39] your father would be proud.

[00:05:41] He was a really good friend of Erendil,

[00:05:43] and when you read The Silmarillion, you get to see some of that sort of stuff.

[00:05:47] And, again, just a little line that's thrown in there.

[00:05:49] If you didn't know any of the background, you say, well, that's great.

[00:05:52] He knew his dad, but when you do know the background, it's really fun to read.

[00:05:56] After one of the great battles as well in The Silmarillion,

[00:06:00] we have a line that says,

[00:06:01] By the commander of Morgoth,

[00:06:03] the orcs with great labor gathered all the bodies of those who had fallen in the great battle,

[00:06:07] and all the harness and weapons,

[00:06:09] and piled them in a great mound in the midst of Agfaloth.

[00:06:12] And it was like a hill that could be seen from afar.

[00:06:14] And you remember in that scene in the sort of prologue section of the Rings of Power Season 1,

[00:06:19] where we have that big pile of elf helmets,

[00:06:23] all these little visual things that made me realize the more I read into the background

[00:06:28] that the showrunners and the writers have got a huge amount of law knowledge,

[00:06:32] and the fact that they were able to put so much in for the people that were looking for it,

[00:06:36] but still make it understandable for people who didn't.

[00:06:39] I think it was so, so well done.

[00:06:41] And I think seeing some of the absolute classic pieces of lore

[00:06:49] that people familiar with the books know about,

[00:06:52] but that we haven't seen before on screen so much,

[00:06:55] was really special, especially this time around in Season 2.

[00:06:59] So even though for me overall,

[00:07:01] the most captivating parts to watch through the whole season

[00:07:03] were Numenor and the Calabrimboa Annatar series or sections,

[00:07:08] I actually really liked Episode 4,

[00:07:11] and that episode had neither Numenor or Calabrimboa Annatar,

[00:07:15] but it included three amazing pieces of Tolkien legend.

[00:07:20] You've got Tom Bombadil, you've got the Barrow Whites,

[00:07:23] and you've got the Ents.

[00:07:24] And to have all three of those that we haven't seen much or at all on screen before

[00:07:28] was so cool, absolutely loved it.

[00:07:30] So yeah, the lore for me this season has been extra special,

[00:07:35] and I've really enjoyed digging into that and exploring it.

[00:07:38] Fantastic.

[00:07:39] And it's such an interesting thing,

[00:07:40] because of course as we talked about before,

[00:07:43] the showrunners don't have the rights to the Submarine,

[00:07:45] they haven't been sold to them,

[00:07:47] the Tolkien Estate keeps holding them,

[00:07:48] so understandably.

[00:07:50] But it must be a difficult balance for them getting that right

[00:07:53] and making sure that they are referencing things

[00:07:55] in books that they don't have the rights to,

[00:07:57] but are able to take little elements of it out

[00:08:01] with agreement of the Tolkien Estate.

[00:08:03] So it is interesting catching those things

[00:08:06] that are specific lines from the book.

[00:08:07] You wonder if they did get the rights to Submarine,

[00:08:09] what extra would it add for them, really?

[00:08:12] Yeah, because there's so much more there to explore.

[00:08:15] And I understand that they've been able to go back

[00:08:17] and ask on an individual basis for different things.

[00:08:20] So for example, the name Annatar does not appear

[00:08:23] in The Lord of the Rings or the Appendices,

[00:08:25] but they did get permission to use the name.

[00:08:27] So on a case-by-case, they're allowed to go back.

[00:08:30] And I'm hoping that as they gain the trust

[00:08:33] of the Tolkien Estate more and more over these seasons

[00:08:36] that they'll get more to play with as we progress through.

[00:08:40] So hopefully that happens.

[00:08:42] Absolutely.

[00:08:43] Yeah.

[00:08:44] And then the other thing that I wanted to talk about,

[00:08:46] which I guess kind of leads on from the law,

[00:08:48] is how is this portrayed to us?

[00:08:50] How do we get to see and hear this on screen?

[00:08:53] Because the other thing that I really enjoyed

[00:08:55] was the music and the visuals of this show.

[00:08:58] The music was by Bear McCreary,

[00:09:00] and he just did an incredible job with this.

[00:09:03] A huge amount of the screen time is scored.

[00:09:06] So often in TV, you have quite a lot of stuff

[00:09:09] that doesn't have any music in the background.

[00:09:11] A huge amount of this show is.

[00:09:13] And I think that you can tell this is done well

[00:09:15] because you don't often notice it.

[00:09:17] So the music can be noticeable if it's jarring

[00:09:20] or it doesn't mix or blend or enhance

[00:09:23] with what you're seeing on screen.

[00:09:24] I think this did an incredible job with portraying

[00:09:28] and lending itself to the emotion

[00:09:30] of what was happening in every scene.

[00:09:32] And there's quite a few bits and pieces

[00:09:34] that you can find both on the official

[00:09:36] behind the scenes on Amazon,

[00:09:38] but also in interviews and so on with Bear McCreary.

[00:09:41] He seems like a really cool guy.

[00:09:43] Absolutely.

[00:09:43] He's like this kind of metal head dude

[00:09:46] who's really into his classical music as well.

[00:09:48] And he said that he designed Sauron's music

[00:09:52] as somewhat kind of hero themed.

[00:09:54] So not always dark because Sauron thinks he's the hero

[00:09:57] and the savior of Middle Earth.

[00:09:59] Another part that I noted was when Nori is talking

[00:10:02] to the Gund, the leader of the stores.

[00:10:04] The music is really reminiscent

[00:10:06] of Howard Shore's Shire theme.

[00:10:09] It used similar instruments

[00:10:10] and even some of the same notes,

[00:10:13] which then just veer off into a different melody

[00:10:15] just when you think it's going to be the Shire theme.

[00:10:17] I thought it was masterful.

[00:10:18] It was really good.

[00:10:19] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:10:20] He's just done such a wonderful job

[00:10:22] to pay kind of homage to Howard Shore.

[00:10:24] And Howard Shore does the actual theme tune

[00:10:26] for the show, which is absolutely beautiful as well.

[00:10:28] But he still seems to be so collaborative

[00:10:31] with the world of Lord of the Rings.

[00:10:32] Howard Shore really made his name

[00:10:33] off the back of the Peter Jackson movies

[00:10:35] that he still tours the world

[00:10:36] doing the score for Lord of the Rings.

[00:10:39] But he still seems so in love with that world.

[00:10:41] And it's almost like taking Bear McCreary

[00:10:44] under his arm and saying, you know,

[00:10:46] this is a guide of how you should do it on the show.

[00:10:49] But Bear McCreary himself has developed so much

[00:10:51] as an artist and as a composer.

[00:10:53] We know him as the composer for Walking Dead,

[00:10:56] mentioning Walking Dead before.

[00:10:57] He composed the theme tune

[00:10:58] to Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. back in the day.

[00:11:00] But over the last 10, 15 years,

[00:11:02] he's done such amazing scores

[00:11:04] for TV shows and games as well.

[00:11:06] He's done some great video game scores.

[00:11:07] But his work here is magnificent.

[00:11:10] It's another one of the things

[00:11:11] where I really want the appendices version

[00:11:13] of The Rings of Power,

[00:11:14] where we have an hour-long documentary

[00:11:16] of Bear McCreary sitting down

[00:11:17] talking about how he does the music

[00:11:19] with his orchestra,

[00:11:20] because he's fascinating.

[00:11:21] He's really interesting.

[00:11:23] And because he's so joyful about it too.

[00:11:25] I love it that he's obviously

[00:11:26] just really into it.

[00:11:28] And then I think the music

[00:11:30] lends itself so well to the visuals

[00:11:32] in the same way that Bear McCreary

[00:11:35] took what Howard Shore did

[00:11:37] and then developed it

[00:11:38] and made it seem similar

[00:11:39] to be in the same world

[00:11:40] but put his own spin on it as well.

[00:11:42] I think that the visual design

[00:11:44] did the same thing.

[00:11:45] I mean, first of all,

[00:11:46] it's just stunningly beautiful.

[00:11:48] You can just tell how much money

[00:11:49] was thrown in it.

[00:11:51] But also, I think it was a great balance

[00:11:53] between making it look enough

[00:11:54] like Peter Jackson's version

[00:11:56] of the world

[00:11:57] that is really familiar to a lot of us,

[00:11:59] but also giving it a different look.

[00:12:01] So you had some of the choices

[00:12:02] that were the same as Peter Jackson.

[00:12:04] So, you know, you've got like,

[00:12:05] for example,

[00:12:06] the Scottish accents for the dwarves.

[00:12:08] You've got the design

[00:12:09] of the architecture for the dwarves,

[00:12:11] the elves.

[00:12:13] Numenor looking like early Gondor

[00:12:15] and specific items like Narsil,

[00:12:17] which looks, you know,

[00:12:18] the sword looks almost exactly the same.

[00:12:20] So we know we're in that world.

[00:12:22] It's exactly, you know,

[00:12:24] the same choices

[00:12:25] for a lot of those things.

[00:12:26] But then you had these sort of

[00:12:27] differences as well,

[00:12:28] which I really enjoyed

[00:12:30] to distinguish it.

[00:12:31] So things like the elves overall,

[00:12:33] they sort of look,

[00:12:34] the look is more fresh and green.

[00:12:36] They use a lot more green and silver

[00:12:37] rather than later on,

[00:12:39] it was more bronzes

[00:12:39] and yellows and oranges

[00:12:40] to make it look more towards

[00:12:42] the decline of their time

[00:12:43] in Middle Earth.

[00:12:44] The Harfoots,

[00:12:45] they're similar to the hobbits

[00:12:46] in some ways,

[00:12:46] but a lot wilder.

[00:12:47] You know, this reflects

[00:12:48] their kind of nomadic lifestyle.

[00:12:50] We recognize them,

[00:12:52] but they're different.

[00:12:53] You know,

[00:12:54] some of the elves having short hair,

[00:12:56] I loved the diversity

[00:12:57] where they used a lot of people of color

[00:12:59] in every different race.

[00:13:00] And then tiny details

[00:13:02] like the dwarves' fingernails

[00:13:05] and fingertips

[00:13:05] being dusted with gold,

[00:13:07] you know,

[00:13:07] noticeably decent,

[00:13:08] but also later you actually see

[00:13:10] Durin the Elder

[00:13:10] has gold fingers as well

[00:13:12] when he's doing his mining.

[00:13:15] My only disappointment

[00:13:16] with the visuals

[00:13:17] was actually the elven rings themselves.

[00:13:20] I did like that the dwarven rings

[00:13:23] looked kind of more chunky

[00:13:24] and earthy,

[00:13:25] but the elven ones,

[00:13:26] they just looked a little bit cheap to me.

[00:13:29] They didn't look like

[00:13:30] they had the weight

[00:13:31] and the grandeur

[00:13:32] that I would kind of expect from them.

[00:13:35] But overall,

[00:13:36] everything else,

[00:13:37] I just, you know,

[00:13:37] like you say,

[00:13:39] you could just,

[00:13:39] you could take a screenshot

[00:13:41] of almost any scene

[00:13:42] and print that

[00:13:42] and put it on your wall.

[00:13:43] It was just so beautiful

[00:13:44] to look at.

[00:13:46] I loved the landscapes.

[00:13:48] You know,

[00:13:48] the first season

[00:13:49] was filmed in New Zealand

[00:13:50] and of course

[00:13:51] I was very disappointed

[00:13:52] when they moved it

[00:13:53] and worried

[00:13:54] that it would look

[00:13:54] really different

[00:13:55] in season two.

[00:13:56] But they did really well.

[00:13:58] You know,

[00:13:59] I can understand

[00:14:00] the reasons for it.

[00:14:01] When they filmed

[00:14:02] Lord of the Rings over here,

[00:14:03] they did the,

[00:14:04] the initial production

[00:14:06] was about 14,

[00:14:08] 15 months of filming.

[00:14:09] That was for all three films.

[00:14:11] But if you think about this,

[00:14:12] especially the main core actors,

[00:14:14] they're here in New Zealand

[00:14:14] for eight months,

[00:14:16] five times over 10 years.

[00:14:17] It's a really huge ask

[00:14:19] and you can understand

[00:14:19] why they moved it.

[00:14:21] But, you know,

[00:14:22] there's some scenes

[00:14:23] in season two

[00:14:23] where I could tell

[00:14:24] they weren't New Zealand

[00:14:25] forest or landscapes.

[00:14:26] But most people

[00:14:27] wouldn't be able to tell that

[00:14:28] and, you know,

[00:14:28] they've got some digital backgrounds

[00:14:30] with some second unit stuff

[00:14:31] that was filmed in New Zealand.

[00:14:33] And then obviously

[00:14:34] those extra kind of

[00:14:35] desert locations for Rune

[00:14:36] that would not have been

[00:14:37] easy to do in New Zealand.

[00:14:38] So overall loved it

[00:14:40] and I just think that the,

[00:14:42] you know,

[00:14:43] obviously we'll go,

[00:14:43] we'll get into the acting

[00:14:45] and all the characters

[00:14:45] and things,

[00:14:46] but I think that the music

[00:14:47] and the visuals

[00:14:51] to building that world

[00:14:52] to make it seem believable.

[00:14:53] Absolutely.

[00:14:54] Absolutely.

[00:14:55] I know they talked about,

[00:14:56] you know,

[00:14:57] relocating to the UK,

[00:14:58] but we were joking about it

[00:15:00] when we heard

[00:15:01] that it was going to be

[00:15:01] moving from New Zealand

[00:15:02] to the UK

[00:15:03] that effectively

[00:15:03] the helicopter would just be

[00:15:04] constantly flying around

[00:15:06] New Zealand

[00:15:06] capturing as much

[00:15:07] as they possibly could

[00:15:08] before they had to relocate

[00:15:09] and just here's our bank

[00:15:11] of visuals that we'll use

[00:15:12] for the second season

[00:15:14] to the fifth season.

[00:15:16] But it's been fabulous.

[00:15:17] I think I kind of said,

[00:15:18] I don't recall

[00:15:19] any deserts in England.

[00:15:22] Yeah.

[00:15:23] Where is that being filmed?

[00:15:25] Yeah.

[00:15:25] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:15:29] Great stuff.

[00:15:30] Any,

[00:15:30] any,

[00:15:30] anybody else

[00:15:31] on the music

[00:15:32] and visuals

[00:15:32] for the show?

[00:15:33] Oh,

[00:15:33] the music's great.

[00:15:34] I was going to say,

[00:15:35] as long as we're talking

[00:15:36] about visuals,

[00:15:37] I wanted to shout out

[00:15:38] to the costumes

[00:15:39] because they are

[00:15:41] each a work of art

[00:15:43] in and of themselves.

[00:15:44] I have seen

[00:15:46] a lot of people online

[00:15:47] duplicating them

[00:15:48] for cosplay

[00:15:49] and a lot of discussions

[00:15:51] of,

[00:15:51] of details

[00:15:52] and a lot of close-up

[00:15:54] pictures of costume details.

[00:15:55] And,

[00:15:56] and I love that there's

[00:15:57] a whole like fan base

[00:15:59] that is obsessed

[00:16:00] with the costumes

[00:16:01] because I always get

[00:16:02] all geeky

[00:16:03] about costumes

[00:16:04] and all of these

[00:16:05] high production value shows,

[00:16:07] you know,

[00:16:07] like the Game of Thrones

[00:16:08] and House of the Dragons.

[00:16:09] And,

[00:16:10] um,

[00:16:11] they are elegant

[00:16:13] and also believable.

[00:16:15] I think

[00:16:16] what impresses me

[00:16:17] the most is the armor.

[00:16:18] I love the,

[00:16:19] the different armors

[00:16:20] and,

[00:16:20] and how they reflect

[00:16:21] the cultures

[00:16:22] of the different people

[00:16:23] wearing them,

[00:16:24] but also look like,

[00:16:25] you know,

[00:16:26] usable armor

[00:16:27] that somebody

[00:16:27] would really wear.

[00:16:28] Absolutely.

[00:16:29] Absolutely.

[00:16:29] And again,

[00:16:30] that's,

[00:16:30] you know,

[00:16:30] the attention to detail

[00:16:31] is what's important

[00:16:32] about this.

[00:16:32] Like every department

[00:16:33] knows what they're making

[00:16:34] and wants to do

[00:16:35] their best possible effort

[00:16:36] in there.

[00:16:37] Yeah.

[00:16:38] Yeah.

[00:16:38] Yeah,

[00:16:38] absolutely.

[00:16:39] And yeah,

[00:16:40] the music for me

[00:16:41] is just,

[00:16:42] is wonderful.

[00:16:43] Uh,

[00:16:44] really have enjoyed this.

[00:16:46] Um,

[00:16:46] even that metal song

[00:16:47] in episode six.

[00:16:48] maybe that put,

[00:16:51] that was a little bit

[00:16:56] of a challenge for me

[00:16:57] and it's not like

[00:16:58] I don't like metal music,

[00:16:59] but I just,

[00:17:00] yeah,

[00:17:01] I,

[00:17:01] I don't know fully

[00:17:03] whether that works

[00:17:04] for me,

[00:17:05] but there we go.

[00:17:06] Um,

[00:17:07] but I love,

[00:17:08] um,

[00:17:08] I love the music

[00:17:09] for this show.

[00:17:10] Um,

[00:17:10] it really paints

[00:17:12] that picture.

[00:17:15] Uh,

[00:17:15] it's again,

[00:17:16] it's just that layering

[00:17:17] of,

[00:17:19] I think,

[00:17:20] you know,

[00:17:20] as we just discussed

[00:17:21] on this point,

[00:17:22] the law,

[00:17:23] the visuals,

[00:17:24] the costumes,

[00:17:26] all of it just layers

[00:17:27] so well.

[00:17:28] Uh,

[00:17:28] and Ben McCreary

[00:17:29] is,

[00:17:30] is super,

[00:17:31] uh,

[00:17:31] love his stuff.

[00:17:33] Um,

[00:17:33] yeah,

[00:17:33] so,

[00:17:34] uh,

[00:17:34] yeah.

[00:17:34] Yeah.

[00:17:35] One of the things

[00:17:36] I really love about

[00:17:36] the music,

[00:17:37] I kind of talked

[00:17:37] about it in part one

[00:17:38] about the essentials

[00:17:39] of what makes

[00:17:40] something a Tolkien

[00:17:41] story rather than

[00:17:42] a fantasy story.

[00:17:42] And one of the things

[00:17:43] that really does it

[00:17:44] for me is,

[00:17:44] is the poetry

[00:17:45] and the music

[00:17:46] of the main characters

[00:17:47] in the story

[00:17:48] and that they've

[00:17:48] really brought that

[00:17:49] into the second season.

[00:17:50] We had Gil-galad

[00:17:50] singing a song,

[00:17:51] uh,

[00:17:52] in front of all of the elves.

[00:17:53] I thought that was

[00:17:54] really important

[00:17:54] to have him do that.

[00:17:55] Obviously having Tom

[00:17:56] Bombadil with his

[00:17:57] old Tom Bombadil song,

[00:17:58] having,

[00:17:59] uh,

[00:17:59] having Rory Kinnear

[00:18:00] sing that as well.

[00:18:01] I thought that was

[00:18:01] lovely to incorporate

[00:18:02] that into the show

[00:18:03] because not many shows

[00:18:04] outside of musicals

[00:18:06] would do that.

[00:18:06] We've watched

[00:18:07] Agatha all along,

[00:18:08] uh,

[00:18:08] do that for,

[00:18:08] uh,

[00:18:09] for eight episodes

[00:18:10] recently.

[00:18:11] So,

[00:18:11] uh,

[00:18:11] that's a musical

[00:18:12] at times,

[00:18:13] but in Lord of the Rings,

[00:18:14] I think it's essential

[00:18:15] to do that,

[00:18:16] um,

[00:18:16] for,

[00:18:17] for the characters

[00:18:17] just to add that

[00:18:18] little extra piece

[00:18:19] of Tolkienism to the show.

[00:18:20] I think that's,

[00:18:21] that's your points,

[00:18:22] Anwen?

[00:18:23] Is that,

[00:18:23] yeah,

[00:18:23] so,

[00:18:23] will we move on

[00:18:24] to Penny?

[00:18:24] Penny,

[00:18:25] what are your favorite

[00:18:26] scenes and sequences

[00:18:27] from the season?

[00:18:28] Um,

[00:18:28] I'm going to start

[00:18:29] with the Ents

[00:18:29] because I am an Ent

[00:18:31] super fan.

[00:18:32] I love the Ents

[00:18:33] and when we started

[00:18:36] this podcast,

[00:18:37] uh,

[00:18:37] when Anwen and I

[00:18:38] started Cast of the Rings,

[00:18:39] you know,

[00:18:40] two years ago

[00:18:40] at the beginning

[00:18:41] of,

[00:18:41] of Rings of Power,

[00:18:42] I was like,

[00:18:43] when are we going

[00:18:43] to get Ents?

[00:18:44] There should be Ents.

[00:18:45] We need Ents.

[00:18:46] And there's one shot

[00:18:48] in season one,

[00:18:50] um,

[00:18:50] when everyone's

[00:18:52] watching the,

[00:18:53] like the star,

[00:18:54] the shooting star

[00:18:55] that turns out

[00:18:56] to be Gandalf

[00:18:56] and there's one of the,

[00:18:58] like,

[00:18:59] it's just a split second

[00:19:00] of what looks like

[00:19:02] two Ents

[00:19:03] watching the,

[00:19:03] the comet

[00:19:04] go across the sky

[00:19:05] and I was like,

[00:19:06] I saw Ents.

[00:19:07] That means we're

[00:19:08] getting Ents.

[00:19:08] So,

[00:19:09] I've been waiting

[00:19:10] and waiting

[00:19:10] and so we finally

[00:19:11] got them

[00:19:12] this season

[00:19:13] and they were

[00:19:14] everything I could

[00:19:15] have hoped for

[00:19:16] and I couldn't

[00:19:17] have asked for

[00:19:17] better voice actors

[00:19:19] and,

[00:19:20] um,

[00:19:20] you know,

[00:19:21] getting to see

[00:19:22] an Ent wife

[00:19:22] and not just,

[00:19:23] uh,

[00:19:24] a male Ent

[00:19:24] was exciting for me

[00:19:26] and I hope

[00:19:27] we get to see them again.

[00:19:28] I have a lot of hopes

[00:19:29] that they're going

[00:19:30] to come back

[00:19:30] because of that

[00:19:31] whole thing

[00:19:32] that Kevin says

[00:19:33] to Theo

[00:19:33] where he's like,

[00:19:35] oh,

[00:19:35] you have to bring us

[00:19:36] trees,

[00:19:36] it's just trees,

[00:19:37] like,

[00:19:38] whatever.

[00:19:38] I'm like,

[00:19:38] oh,

[00:19:39] that's an opportunity

[00:19:40] for Ents.

[00:19:41] I'm hoping.

[00:19:42] And it's,

[00:19:43] you know,

[00:19:43] Arandir making

[00:19:45] that specific

[00:19:47] promise to the Ents

[00:19:48] that he will

[00:19:48] save their trees

[00:19:49] and then Kevin

[00:19:49] arriving with

[00:19:50] his villainous

[00:19:51] scowl going,

[00:19:52] cut trees out

[00:19:53] of the land,

[00:19:54] bring them in here

[00:19:55] or you don't get

[00:19:55] any food.

[00:19:56] It's just that

[00:19:57] great villain term

[00:19:58] where you're going,

[00:19:58] oh,

[00:19:58] he doesn't know

[00:19:59] about the Ents

[00:19:59] in there,

[00:20:00] maybe he should

[00:20:00] go out with his axe.

[00:20:01] That's it.

[00:20:02] I loved all the

[00:20:03] side eye being

[00:20:05] given in that scene

[00:20:06] as like,

[00:20:07] what's he asking

[00:20:08] us to do?

[00:20:10] They're not just

[00:20:11] trees,

[00:20:12] but okay.

[00:20:14] And speaking of

[00:20:15] seeing an Entwife,

[00:20:17] you know,

[00:20:18] I was a Lord of the

[00:20:19] Rings fan as a kid.

[00:20:21] I started with

[00:20:22] The Hobbit.

[00:20:23] My family had

[00:20:24] this set of

[00:20:25] cassette tapes

[00:20:26] that was an old

[00:20:27] BBC audio play

[00:20:30] of The Hobbit.

[00:20:31] That we would

[00:20:31] listen to over

[00:20:33] and over and

[00:20:33] over again while

[00:20:34] we did Jigsaw

[00:20:35] puzzles.

[00:20:35] It makes us

[00:20:36] seem like a

[00:20:37] really like,

[00:20:38] cute family.

[00:20:40] But anyway,

[00:20:40] like with the

[00:20:41] fire going and

[00:20:42] the Christmas

[00:20:42] tree and puzzles

[00:20:43] and The Hobbit.

[00:20:44] And so I got

[00:20:46] the books and I

[00:20:47] read the books

[00:20:47] over and over

[00:20:48] and over again.

[00:20:49] And the one

[00:20:49] problem I always

[00:20:50] had with the

[00:20:50] stories and even

[00:20:52] into the Peter

[00:20:52] Jackson movies was

[00:20:53] there's just not

[00:20:54] very many women

[00:20:56] in these stories.

[00:20:57] Like,

[00:20:58] you know,

[00:20:59] Eowyn is really

[00:21:00] the only female

[00:21:01] character that

[00:21:02] does anything.

[00:21:04] Right?

[00:21:04] Galadriel is like

[00:21:05] this ethereal

[00:21:07] character in

[00:21:08] Lothlorien and

[00:21:09] she helps them

[00:21:10] but like,

[00:21:11] she doesn't do

[00:21:12] much.

[00:21:12] Arwen is basically

[00:21:13] just a love

[00:21:14] interest and you

[00:21:15] barely even see

[00:21:16] her.

[00:21:16] You know,

[00:21:17] they beefed her

[00:21:17] up a little bit

[00:21:18] for the movies

[00:21:18] but as a kid I

[00:21:20] was always like,

[00:21:20] it's hard to see

[00:21:22] myself in this

[00:21:23] story.

[00:21:24] Right?

[00:21:24] I love the

[00:21:25] story,

[00:21:25] I love the

[00:21:26] world of it

[00:21:26] but there

[00:21:27] wasn't anyone

[00:21:28] for me to

[00:21:28] identify with.

[00:21:29] So,

[00:21:29] in Rings of

[00:21:30] Power,

[00:21:30] I'm so excited

[00:21:31] to see not

[00:21:32] just Galadriel

[00:21:33] but we've got

[00:21:34] Disa and there

[00:21:36] was Bronwyn

[00:21:36] and there's

[00:21:37] Muriel and

[00:21:39] Nori and

[00:21:40] Poppy and

[00:21:41] then this season

[00:21:42] we got more

[00:21:43] than one woman

[00:21:44] per race which

[00:21:45] was one of my

[00:21:45] big complaints

[00:21:46] season one and

[00:21:47] they had names

[00:21:48] and the elf

[00:21:49] women weren't

[00:21:50] all covered with

[00:21:51] veils and it

[00:21:51] was very exciting

[00:21:52] for me and

[00:21:53] you know,

[00:21:54] having characters

[00:21:55] of color and

[00:21:57] I know there's

[00:21:58] been backlash

[00:21:58] against it but

[00:22:00] those people are

[00:22:01] stupid.

[00:22:02] I feel like

[00:22:03] for the next

[00:22:04] couple of

[00:22:05] generations of

[00:22:06] young women

[00:22:06] coming up,

[00:22:07] it's exciting

[00:22:08] to have

[00:22:08] characters that

[00:22:09] you can project

[00:22:10] yourself onto

[00:22:11] in Middle

[00:22:12] Earth and be

[00:22:13] like,

[00:22:13] oh,

[00:22:14] maybe I

[00:22:14] would be

[00:22:14] like a

[00:22:15] Myrdania.

[00:22:15] I hope not

[00:22:16] because that

[00:22:16] doesn't end

[00:22:17] well.

[00:22:18] Or a

[00:22:19] stone singer

[00:22:20] like Disa

[00:22:20] and the

[00:22:22] other stone

[00:22:22] singers that

[00:22:23] she works

[00:22:23] with or a

[00:22:24] healer like

[00:22:25] Bronwyn.

[00:22:25] There's all

[00:22:26] these options

[00:22:26] for women or

[00:22:28] a weaselly

[00:22:29] turncoat like

[00:22:30] Aodian.

[00:22:30] There's choices.

[00:22:31] I get really

[00:22:32] excited about

[00:22:33] this because

[00:22:33] growing up,

[00:22:35] even when there

[00:22:35] were women in

[00:22:36] the big fantasy

[00:22:37] stories like

[00:22:38] Star Wars,

[00:22:39] there was always

[00:22:39] only one.

[00:22:41] You know?

[00:22:42] And so if you

[00:22:42] didn't fit that

[00:22:43] mold, it was

[00:22:44] kind of hard to

[00:22:44] see yourself in

[00:22:45] the stories.

[00:22:46] And it's

[00:22:48] changing and

[00:22:48] it's wonderful

[00:22:49] and I love

[00:22:50] seeing it in my

[00:22:51] Tolkien because

[00:22:52] that was sort

[00:22:53] of the last

[00:22:53] fandom where I

[00:22:54] wanted to see

[00:22:55] it happen from

[00:22:56] my childhood.

[00:22:59] One of my

[00:22:59] favorite scenes

[00:23:00] in the whole

[00:23:02] series so far

[00:23:03] is the

[00:23:04] goodbye scene

[00:23:05] between

[00:23:07] Celebrimbor and

[00:23:08] Galadriel when

[00:23:09] he gives her

[00:23:09] the nine

[00:23:10] rings and

[00:23:10] he tells her

[00:23:11] to save as

[00:23:12] many people as

[00:23:13] she can.

[00:23:13] And they have

[00:23:14] that conversation

[00:23:15] where he says,

[00:23:16] you know,

[00:23:17] just remember

[00:23:17] that it's not

[00:23:19] strength that

[00:23:20] defeats darkness,

[00:23:20] it's light.

[00:23:21] And when I

[00:23:23] talked about

[00:23:23] this on our

[00:23:24] podcast,

[00:23:24] it's a sort

[00:23:25] of a paraphrase

[00:23:27] of Martin Luther

[00:23:28] King Jr.

[00:23:30] speech where

[00:23:31] he said,

[00:23:32] hate cannot

[00:23:33] drive out hate,

[00:23:34] only light can

[00:23:34] do that,

[00:23:35] only love can

[00:23:35] drive out hate.

[00:23:36] And it's

[00:23:37] something that

[00:23:37] I have

[00:23:40] held on to

[00:23:41] for a lot

[00:23:42] of years

[00:23:42] through various

[00:23:44] times in

[00:23:45] the world where

[00:23:46] it seems like

[00:23:47] darkness is winning.

[00:23:49] and I,

[00:23:51] you know,

[00:23:51] like anyone,

[00:23:52] I get angry,

[00:23:53] I feel hopeless,

[00:23:54] I feel despair

[00:23:55] when there is

[00:23:56] darkness in the

[00:23:57] world,

[00:23:57] but I try to

[00:23:58] remember to

[00:23:58] try to be the

[00:23:59] light and to

[00:24:01] fight darkness

[00:24:02] and to fight

[00:24:03] hate with love

[00:24:03] and light.

[00:24:04] And I love

[00:24:05] that as a

[00:24:06] theme and

[00:24:08] I can't wait

[00:24:09] to see how

[00:24:09] that plays out

[00:24:10] next season

[00:24:11] because it was

[00:24:12] such a big part

[00:24:13] of the finale

[00:24:13] moment.

[00:24:15] So I think

[00:24:17] it's a

[00:24:18] beautiful way

[00:24:19] to face

[00:24:21] the darkness

[00:24:22] in the world

[00:24:23] is to try to

[00:24:23] fight it back

[00:24:24] with love

[00:24:25] instead of

[00:24:26] with more violence.

[00:24:27] and I think

[00:24:28] as we've said

[00:24:29] one of the

[00:24:30] strengths in

[00:24:30] Rings of the

[00:24:31] Power is

[00:24:31] them taking

[00:24:32] that Tolkien

[00:24:33] theme,

[00:24:33] that hopeful

[00:24:34] Tolkien theme

[00:24:35] and that's

[00:24:36] really,

[00:24:36] this is really

[00:24:37] a line that

[00:24:38] encapsulates

[00:24:38] that here.

[00:24:39] Just like his

[00:24:40] message about

[00:24:41] the smallest

[00:24:42] people can be

[00:24:43] the biggest

[00:24:43] heroes of

[00:24:44] the entire

[00:24:45] Middle Earth

[00:24:46] with the

[00:24:46] Hobbits.

[00:24:47] This message

[00:24:48] of being

[00:24:48] the light

[00:24:49] in the darkness

[00:24:51] and stopping

[00:24:52] hate by doing

[00:24:53] that is a

[00:24:53] really strong

[00:24:54] message and

[00:24:54] really strong

[00:24:55] Tolkien-like

[00:24:56] message,

[00:24:57] definitely.

[00:24:58] Yeah.

[00:24:58] Great points

[00:24:59] there,

[00:24:59] Penny.

[00:24:59] John,

[00:25:00] I think we've

[00:25:00] come to the end

[00:25:01] of Penny's

[00:25:01] points.

[00:25:02] Do you want

[00:25:02] to pick up

[00:25:03] on your

[00:25:03] favourite

[00:25:04] scenes?

[00:25:05] Yeah,

[00:25:06] absolutely.

[00:25:07] Mine are

[00:25:07] definitely

[00:25:07] scenes in

[00:25:09] the main.

[00:25:10] I'm going

[00:25:11] to kick off

[00:25:11] with the

[00:25:12] Barrowites.

[00:25:12] I just

[00:25:13] actually love

[00:25:14] these being

[00:25:15] sort of

[00:25:16] realised.

[00:25:18] The one

[00:25:19] thing that

[00:25:19] I always

[00:25:20] remember

[00:25:20] sort of

[00:25:21] I think

[00:25:22] seeing an

[00:25:24] interview

[00:25:24] with Tolkien

[00:25:26] from some

[00:25:26] archive footage

[00:25:28] of the BBC

[00:25:29] was him

[00:25:31] talking about

[00:25:31] how Norse

[00:25:33] mythology,

[00:25:34] Celtic

[00:25:35] mythology,

[00:25:35] all these

[00:25:36] different

[00:25:38] cultures,

[00:25:40] myths,

[00:25:41] lore,

[00:25:41] and also

[00:25:44] just the

[00:25:46] modern-day

[00:25:48] absence of

[00:25:50] them in

[00:25:50] England,

[00:25:52] even though

[00:25:53] you would

[00:25:53] have it

[00:25:54] there from

[00:25:55] the Saxons

[00:25:56] and so on,

[00:25:58] and the

[00:25:59] Celtic

[00:25:59] times as

[00:26:01] well,

[00:26:01] but the

[00:26:02] absence of

[00:26:03] it fading

[00:26:03] and this

[00:26:04] was a

[00:26:05] way of

[00:26:06] reconnecting

[00:26:07] that and

[00:26:07] almost sort

[00:26:08] of developing

[00:26:09] a mythology,

[00:26:10] well,

[00:26:11] actually developing

[00:26:12] a mythology.

[00:26:12] So I all

[00:26:14] like that and

[00:26:15] I think the

[00:26:15] Barrowites for

[00:26:16] me really just

[00:26:17] speak to that,

[00:26:17] you know,

[00:26:18] something based

[00:26:18] around sort

[00:26:21] of Norse

[00:26:22] concepts,

[00:26:22] but,

[00:26:23] you know,

[00:26:24] Barrow,

[00:26:25] very common

[00:26:27] term for

[00:26:28] towns and

[00:26:29] places in

[00:26:30] where I was

[00:26:31] brought up

[00:26:33] being sort

[00:26:34] of those

[00:26:34] burial

[00:26:34] bounds and

[00:26:36] the whites

[00:26:37] being sort

[00:26:38] of an old

[00:26:38] English term

[00:26:39] and so seeing

[00:26:40] these realise

[00:26:40] that kind of

[00:26:41] is just so

[00:26:43] good,

[00:26:43] the chant

[00:26:44] as well

[00:26:45] that you

[00:26:45] have and I

[00:26:46] mean in

[00:26:46] particular for

[00:26:47] the actual

[00:26:49] scenes here,

[00:26:50] just love how

[00:26:51] the chant

[00:26:52] sort of floats

[00:26:53] on the air

[00:26:54] as the

[00:26:54] Barrowites

[00:26:55] themselves do

[00:26:56] and I

[00:26:58] just really

[00:26:59] love this

[00:26:59] scene.

[00:27:00] It plays to

[00:27:01] my love of

[00:27:02] horror,

[00:27:02] it plays to

[00:27:03] just the

[00:27:04] ethereal

[00:27:05] sort of

[00:27:06] nature of

[00:27:07] sort of

[00:27:08] whites

[00:27:09] being this

[00:27:10] other

[00:27:10] sentient

[00:27:11] kind of

[00:27:12] being

[00:27:14] or person

[00:27:15] and so I

[00:27:16] just absolutely

[00:27:17] loved this

[00:27:18] scene.

[00:27:20] Effectively the

[00:27:21] group racing

[00:27:23] to get to

[00:27:24] Eregion but

[00:27:25] being sort

[00:27:27] of caught

[00:27:28] in this

[00:27:29] absolute

[00:27:30] sort of

[00:27:30] nightmare

[00:27:31] situation with

[00:27:32] these

[00:27:32] Barrowites

[00:27:33] so yeah,

[00:27:33] absolutely loved

[00:27:34] it.

[00:27:34] It's interesting

[00:27:35] what you say

[00:27:36] about the

[00:27:37] barrows being

[00:27:38] a real part

[00:27:39] of the

[00:27:39] history and

[00:27:39] the landscape

[00:27:40] of where

[00:27:41] you're from

[00:27:41] John.

[00:27:42] I'm from

[00:27:43] New Zealand

[00:27:43] and we've

[00:27:44] only had

[00:27:44] people here

[00:27:45] for about

[00:27:46] 900 years

[00:27:46] and we've

[00:27:48] only had

[00:27:48] sort of

[00:27:49] buildings for

[00:27:50] the last

[00:27:50] 200 and

[00:27:51] so it's

[00:27:52] quite amazing.

[00:27:53] I've spent a

[00:27:53] lot of time

[00:27:54] in England

[00:27:54] as well.

[00:27:54] I lived

[00:27:54] there for

[00:27:55] a year in

[00:27:55] the north

[00:27:55] and to

[00:27:57] see that

[00:27:58] as part

[00:27:58] of the

[00:27:58] real history

[00:27:59] and the

[00:28:00] real kind

[00:28:00] of archaeology

[00:28:02] and you

[00:28:03] know of

[00:28:04] the landscape

[00:28:04] is really

[00:28:05] interesting and

[00:28:06] knowing Tolkien

[00:28:06] from there

[00:28:07] as well.

[00:28:08] To see this

[00:28:09] on screen

[00:28:10] as something

[00:28:11] that's been

[00:28:11] realised from

[00:28:12] this fantasy

[00:28:13] world was

[00:28:14] really incredible

[00:28:14] as well and

[00:28:15] I loved the

[00:28:17] visuals of it.

[00:28:17] You know we've

[00:28:18] seen skeletons

[00:28:19] before on

[00:28:20] screen, we've

[00:28:20] seen ghosts

[00:28:21] before in a

[00:28:22] hundred different

[00:28:23] movies but to

[00:28:24] see the

[00:28:24] combination of

[00:28:25] the two of

[00:28:25] these spirits

[00:28:26] animating these

[00:28:27] dead bodies

[00:28:30] and the way

[00:28:30] that they did

[00:28:31] it with them

[00:28:31] kind of almost

[00:28:34] looked like

[00:28:35] little kinetic

[00:28:36] models, I don't

[00:28:37] know how to

[00:28:37] describe it but

[00:28:38] the way they

[00:28:38] sectioned

[00:28:39] themselves back

[00:28:40] into their

[00:28:41] shape after

[00:28:41] they had been

[00:28:43] taken out

[00:28:44] was incredible

[00:28:45] to see and so

[00:28:47] creepy.

[00:28:47] I think they

[00:28:48] really captured

[00:28:48] that feeling

[00:28:49] that you get

[00:28:50] because I do

[00:28:50] think that in

[00:28:51] the book when

[00:28:52] you read the

[00:28:52] Barrow-White

[00:28:53] section with

[00:28:53] Frodo and

[00:28:54] the Hobbits

[00:28:54] going to be

[00:28:55] captured by

[00:28:56] the Barrow-White

[00:28:56] it was

[00:28:57] absolutely

[00:28:57] chilling and

[00:28:58] one of the

[00:28:58] scariest parts

[00:28:59] of a book

[00:29:00] that I've

[00:29:00] read actually

[00:29:01] and so to

[00:29:01] see that

[00:29:02] translated in

[00:29:03] the screen

[00:29:03] with elves

[00:29:04] instead of

[00:29:04] hobbits was

[00:29:05] really incredible

[00:29:05] I really

[00:29:06] loved that.

[00:29:07] Yeah, really

[00:29:08] good, it was

[00:29:08] really good and

[00:29:09] it was almost

[00:29:09] like they were

[00:29:10] able to revisit

[00:29:11] the concept

[00:29:11] that they

[00:29:11] used in

[00:29:12] Peter Jackson's

[00:29:13] Lord of the

[00:29:13] Rings with

[00:29:15] the dead

[00:29:16] army, the

[00:29:17] rising of the

[00:29:17] dead army.

[00:29:18] It's like they

[00:29:18] had the ability

[00:29:19] to re-look at

[00:29:21] that style and

[00:29:22] the concept of

[00:29:23] the ghostly

[00:29:25] skeleton figures

[00:29:26] because I

[00:29:27] remember at the

[00:29:27] time, I don't

[00:29:28] know whether you

[00:29:28] guys remember

[00:29:29] this, when that

[00:29:30] came out in

[00:29:30] Return of the

[00:29:31] King, about two

[00:29:32] months later

[00:29:34] Pirates of the

[00:29:35] Caribbean came

[00:29:35] out I think, so

[00:29:36] it was like as

[00:29:36] if they'd

[00:29:37] copied the idea

[00:29:38] from the other

[00:29:39] movie and it

[00:29:39] wasn't as

[00:29:40] impressive as it

[00:29:41] would have been

[00:29:41] if we hadn't

[00:29:42] had Pirates of

[00:29:43] the Caribbean

[00:29:43] doing a very

[00:29:44] similar thing

[00:29:44] within the

[00:29:45] same summer

[00:29:45] or within the

[00:29:46] same year.

[00:29:47] But yeah,

[00:29:48] really great

[00:29:49] scene.

[00:29:49] Any other

[00:29:50] big moments

[00:29:50] John?

[00:29:50] Well I was

[00:29:51] just going to

[00:29:51] as well say

[00:29:52] interestingly

[00:29:53] sort of, I

[00:29:54] think Tolkien

[00:29:56] taught or

[00:29:57] went to

[00:29:58] school very,

[00:30:00] not very

[00:30:01] close to

[00:30:02] where I was

[00:30:02] born but

[00:30:03] up I think

[00:30:04] in the

[00:30:05] Ribble Valley

[00:30:05] there's a

[00:30:06] big public

[00:30:07] school up

[00:30:07] there, I

[00:30:07] can't remember

[00:30:08] its name

[00:30:08] where I

[00:30:08] think he

[00:30:10] has some

[00:30:11] connection to

[00:30:12] that whether

[00:30:13] he taught there

[00:30:15] briefly or he

[00:30:16] actually went to

[00:30:17] boarding school

[00:30:17] there because

[00:30:18] I know he's

[00:30:18] from Birmingham

[00:30:19] but it's kind

[00:30:21] of really

[00:30:22] interesting because

[00:30:23] that whole area

[00:30:24] is very

[00:30:25] beautiful.

[00:30:28] It goes back

[00:30:29] to Roman

[00:30:31] but there's

[00:30:33] lots of

[00:30:34] lore around

[00:30:35] witches and

[00:30:36] so on all in

[00:30:37] that area around

[00:30:38] Pendle Hill and

[00:30:39] so on.

[00:30:39] So it's very

[00:30:41] kind of

[00:30:42] interesting

[00:30:42] and that's

[00:30:44] I think with

[00:30:44] the Barrowites

[00:30:45] you

[00:30:46] very inspiring

[00:30:47] kind of area

[00:30:47] to be in

[00:30:47] as well.

[00:30:49] And then I

[00:30:50] kind of go to

[00:30:51] Numenor really

[00:30:52] and again I

[00:30:53] just love the

[00:30:54] visual of

[00:30:56] Muriel's

[00:30:57] trial by the

[00:30:59] Valar through

[00:31:00] this sea monster.

[00:31:02] I just thought

[00:31:02] the setting of

[00:31:03] it was

[00:31:04] fantastic.

[00:31:05] I love the

[00:31:06] fact that it

[00:31:07] really just

[00:31:08] you know

[00:31:09] scuppered

[00:31:10] Farazon's

[00:31:11] plans for

[00:31:12] you know

[00:31:12] however briefly

[00:31:13] it kind of

[00:31:14] put a big

[00:31:15] grin on my

[00:31:15] face that

[00:31:18] Muriel and

[00:31:20] Elendil

[00:31:21] were

[00:31:22] felt like

[00:31:23] they were

[00:31:23] kind of maybe

[00:31:23] slightly back in

[00:31:24] the ascendancy

[00:31:25] there on

[00:31:26] Numenor

[00:31:26] however brief

[00:31:27] it was.

[00:31:29] I just

[00:31:30] loved this

[00:31:31] whole setting

[00:31:32] I loved how

[00:31:33] it played to

[00:31:34] that politics

[00:31:34] that was

[00:31:35] playing out

[00:31:36] in Numenor

[00:31:36] in this

[00:31:37] season.

[00:31:37] I loved

[00:31:39] how it

[00:31:40] almost seemed

[00:31:41] to go

[00:31:41] counter to

[00:31:42] what Farazon

[00:31:43] was trying

[00:31:44] to do as

[00:31:45] well in

[00:31:46] terms of

[00:31:47] looking back

[00:31:48] to this

[00:31:48] trial by

[00:31:50] the Valar

[00:31:50] this older

[00:31:52] custom.

[00:31:54] We hear of

[00:31:55] him wanting

[00:31:56] to knock

[00:31:56] down temples

[00:31:58] in order to

[00:31:59] build aqueducts

[00:32:00] whether it's

[00:32:01] like motorways

[00:32:03] slicing through

[00:32:04] communities or

[00:32:04] whatever.

[00:32:05] I really

[00:32:06] enjoyed this

[00:32:08] and I think

[00:32:09] the visual

[00:32:09] of it was

[00:32:10] superb.

[00:32:12] We talked

[00:32:13] about it

[00:32:13] again at

[00:32:14] the time

[00:32:14] it did

[00:32:15] have that

[00:32:15] Salem witch

[00:32:15] trial idea

[00:32:17] if she's

[00:32:18] not a

[00:32:18] witch she'll

[00:32:18] drown and

[00:32:19] then she'll

[00:32:19] have a good

[00:32:20] life afterwards

[00:32:20] and that's

[00:32:21] kind of what

[00:32:21] it felt like

[00:32:22] here.

[00:32:22] She'll go

[00:32:22] by the

[00:32:23] trial of

[00:32:23] this ancient

[00:32:24] thing that

[00:32:24] we don't

[00:32:24] believe in

[00:32:25] and she'll

[00:32:25] definitely

[00:32:26] die proving

[00:32:26] that we

[00:32:27] were right

[00:32:27] all along.

[00:32:28] Yeah exactly

[00:32:29] but it's

[00:32:30] also the

[00:32:30] stoicism of

[00:32:32] Muriel

[00:32:34] here as

[00:32:35] well so

[00:32:35] I really

[00:32:36] enjoyed this

[00:32:37] and ultimately

[00:32:38] she is found

[00:32:40] to be

[00:32:40] innocent

[00:32:41] in this

[00:32:43] instance as

[00:32:44] she survives

[00:32:45] the trial

[00:32:45] and I just

[00:32:47] really enjoyed

[00:32:48] it and I

[00:32:50] think sticking

[00:32:51] with Numenor

[00:32:52] I actually

[00:32:53] really enjoyed

[00:32:54] how they

[00:32:55] did the

[00:32:56] treatment of

[00:32:56] the Palantir

[00:32:57] with Farazon

[00:32:58] where it

[00:32:59] kind of

[00:32:59] almost explodes

[00:33:00] out into

[00:33:01] reality.

[00:33:02] I thought

[00:33:02] it was a

[00:33:02] really nice

[00:33:03] way of

[00:33:04] instead of

[00:33:06] touching it

[00:33:07] and crystal

[00:33:08] balling it

[00:33:09] and going

[00:33:09] into it

[00:33:10] it's almost

[00:33:11] as though

[00:33:11] this vision

[00:33:12] sort of

[00:33:12] explodes

[00:33:13] around

[00:33:13] Farazon

[00:33:15] when he

[00:33:16] touches it

[00:33:16] and it's

[00:33:18] immersing

[00:33:19] his immediate

[00:33:20] reality in

[00:33:21] what could

[00:33:22] be.

[00:33:23] And also

[00:33:24] just the

[00:33:26] different

[00:33:26] visions

[00:33:27] depending on

[00:33:28] who is

[00:33:29] touching

[00:33:30] the

[00:33:30] Palantir

[00:33:31] as well

[00:33:32] that comes

[00:33:32] from this

[00:33:33] season

[00:33:33] is really

[00:33:35] really good

[00:33:36] and so

[00:33:37] I love

[00:33:38] that it

[00:33:38] kind of

[00:33:39] had that

[00:33:40] interpretation

[00:33:40] side of it

[00:33:41] I think

[00:33:41] it's a

[00:33:41] Harry Potter

[00:33:42] thing as

[00:33:43] well

[00:33:43] isn't it

[00:33:43] where

[00:33:43] they see

[00:33:44] their vision

[00:33:45] whatever way

[00:33:46] they interpret

[00:33:46] it completely

[00:33:47] change how

[00:33:48] they deal

[00:33:48] with the

[00:33:48] world

[00:33:48] around

[00:33:49] them

[00:33:49] so

[00:33:50] when we

[00:33:51] see

[00:33:51] around

[00:33:51] you're

[00:33:51] seeing

[00:33:52] his

[00:33:52] vision

[00:33:52] of him

[00:33:52] leaving

[00:33:54] Numenor

[00:33:54] behind

[00:33:55] and he

[00:33:56] believes

[00:33:57] that's not

[00:33:58] in the

[00:33:58] plan for

[00:33:59] him

[00:33:59] well

[00:34:00] Farazan

[00:34:00] saw sexy

[00:34:01] Halbrand

[00:34:02] so

[00:34:03] I don't

[00:34:04] know what

[00:34:04] Farazan's

[00:34:05] going to do

[00:34:06] with that

[00:34:06] but

[00:34:08] it might

[00:34:09] secure his

[00:34:10] position

[00:34:11] however

[00:34:11] briefly

[00:34:12] but

[00:34:12] I mean

[00:34:13] even just

[00:34:14] that immediate

[00:34:14] scene

[00:34:15] it's just

[00:34:15] you know

[00:34:16] you see

[00:34:16] Halbrand

[00:34:17] you know

[00:34:18] with

[00:34:18] Anatar

[00:34:19] and Sauron

[00:34:20] and you

[00:34:21] go

[00:34:21] you know

[00:34:22] it's just

[00:34:23] that

[00:34:23] trepidation

[00:34:24] for what's

[00:34:25] to come

[00:34:26] is really

[00:34:27] it's just

[00:34:28] a nice

[00:34:28] little touch

[00:34:29] I think

[00:34:29] in terms

[00:34:30] of how

[00:34:30] they use

[00:34:31] that

[00:34:31] and I

[00:34:33] think

[00:34:33] the other

[00:34:33] really

[00:34:34] nice

[00:34:34] touch

[00:34:35] which I

[00:34:35] never

[00:34:35] thought

[00:34:35] I

[00:34:36] would

[00:34:36] see

[00:34:36] at all

[00:34:38] was the

[00:34:39] use of

[00:34:39] Morgoth's

[00:34:40] crown

[00:34:40] as basically

[00:34:41] a weapon

[00:34:43] as

[00:34:45] Anatar

[00:34:46] is

[00:34:48] dueling

[00:34:49] with

[00:34:50] Galatriel

[00:34:51] I just

[00:34:51] thought it was

[00:34:52] a really

[00:34:53] great

[00:34:54] given how

[00:34:55] pointy

[00:34:56] it is

[00:34:56] why

[00:34:57] wouldn't

[00:34:57] you

[00:34:57] I mean

[00:34:58] you know

[00:34:59] it was

[00:35:01] just a

[00:35:01] real nice

[00:35:02] sort of

[00:35:03] use of

[00:35:03] it

[00:35:04] given

[00:35:04] it's

[00:35:05] Morgoth's

[00:35:06] crown

[00:35:06] it should

[00:35:08] be used

[00:35:09] for violence

[00:35:09] almost

[00:35:10] you think

[00:35:10] so I

[00:35:11] thought it

[00:35:11] was a

[00:35:12] really

[00:35:12] nice

[00:35:12] touch

[00:35:14] I

[00:35:15] loved

[00:35:15] that

[00:35:15] Morgoth's

[00:35:16] crown

[00:35:16] as well

[00:35:16] and I

[00:35:17] also

[00:35:17] think

[00:35:18] it's

[00:35:18] quite

[00:35:19] cool

[00:35:19] when the

[00:35:19] showrunners

[00:35:20] and writers

[00:35:20] put in

[00:35:21] a little

[00:35:22] kind of

[00:35:22] disclaimer

[00:35:23] to the

[00:35:24] people who

[00:35:24] know the

[00:35:24] law

[00:35:25] so

[00:35:26] back in

[00:35:26] the day

[00:35:27] when Morgoth

[00:35:27] was defeated

[00:35:28] they actually

[00:35:28] melted down

[00:35:29] his crown

[00:35:30] into a

[00:35:30] collar for

[00:35:31] him

[00:35:31] and to

[00:35:32] restrain

[00:35:33] him

[00:35:33] and I

[00:35:34] love how

[00:35:34] in this

[00:35:35] season

[00:35:35] they said

[00:35:35] there are

[00:35:36] many tales

[00:35:37] of what

[00:35:37] happened

[00:35:37] to Morgoth's

[00:35:38] crown

[00:35:38] so that

[00:35:39] they're

[00:35:39] kind of

[00:35:39] basically

[00:35:40] paying

[00:35:40] tribute

[00:35:40] to the

[00:35:40] people

[00:35:41] that

[00:35:41] know

[00:35:41] hang

[00:35:41] on

[00:35:42] that

[00:35:42] became

[00:35:42] a

[00:35:42] collar

[00:35:42] this

[00:35:43] is

[00:35:43] another

[00:35:44] tale

[00:35:44] this

[00:35:44] is

[00:35:44] what

[00:35:44] we

[00:35:45] see

[00:35:45] is

[00:35:46] happening

[00:35:47] and I

[00:35:48] love

[00:35:48] that

[00:35:48] they

[00:35:48] made

[00:35:49] it

[00:35:49] still

[00:35:49] look

[00:35:50] like

[00:35:50] a

[00:35:51] crown

[00:35:51] that

[00:35:51] could

[00:35:52] have

[00:35:52] been

[00:35:52] of

[00:35:52] Morgoth

[00:35:52] but it

[00:35:53] also

[00:35:53] looks

[00:35:53] very

[00:35:54] similar

[00:35:54] to

[00:35:54] the

[00:35:54] Peter

[00:36:15] between

[00:36:15] it

[00:36:15] had

[00:36:16] to

[00:36:16] be

[00:36:16] epic

[00:36:16] it

[00:36:17] had

[00:36:17] to

[00:36:17] be

[00:36:18] their

[00:36:18] big

[00:36:19] fight

[00:36:19] between

[00:36:19] each

[00:36:19] other

[00:36:20] I

[00:36:20] know

[00:36:20] we

[00:36:20] talked

[00:36:20] about

[00:36:20] whether

[00:36:21] we'll

[00:36:21] see

[00:36:21] the

[00:36:21] two

[00:36:22] of

[00:36:22] them

[00:36:22] have

[00:36:22] much

[00:36:22] connection

[00:36:23] in

[00:36:23] the

[00:36:23] next

[00:36:23] couple

[00:36:23] of

[00:37:15] setting

[00:37:15] was

[00:37:15] setting

[00:37:15] up

[00:37:16] the

[00:37:16] characters

[00:37:16] establishing

[00:37:16] the

[00:37:17] world

[00:37:17] and

[00:37:18] this

[00:37:18] season

[00:37:18] was

[00:37:18] telling

[00:37:18] us

[00:37:19] all

[00:37:19] about

[00:37:19] Sauron

[00:37:19] and

[00:37:21] how

[00:37:21] you

[00:37:21] do

[00:37:21] that

[00:37:21] is

[00:37:22] you

[00:37:22] skip

[00:37:22] all

[00:37:22] the

[00:37:45] did

[00:37:46] but

[00:37:46] to

[00:37:47] have

[00:37:47] him

[00:37:47] fight

[00:37:48] off

[00:37:48] a few

[00:37:48] of

[00:37:48] them

[00:37:49] who

[00:37:49] are

[00:37:50] starting

[00:37:50] to

[00:37:50] attack

[00:37:51] I

[00:37:51] thought

[00:37:51] was

[00:37:51] an

[00:37:51] interesting

[00:37:52] choice

[00:37:52] until

[00:37:52] we

[00:37:52] see

[00:37:53] them

[00:37:53] all

[00:37:53] take

[00:37:54] him

[00:37:54] out

[00:37:54] with

[00:37:55] the

[00:37:55] first

[00:37:56] stab

[00:37:56] to

[00:37:56] the

[00:37:56] back

[00:37:56] and

[00:37:56] all

[00:37:57] the

[00:37:57] orcs

[00:37:57] taking

[00:37:58] him

[00:37:58] out

[00:37:58] effectively

[00:37:59] saying

[00:37:59] this

[00:38:15] that

[00:38:15] felt

[00:38:15] so

[00:38:16] like

[00:38:16] Venom

[00:38:17] from

[00:38:17] the

[00:38:17] Marvel

[00:38:17] Cinematic

[00:38:19] Universe

[00:38:19] this

[00:38:20] creature

[00:38:21] that's

[00:38:21] going

[00:38:21] out

[00:38:21] trying

[00:38:21] to

[00:38:22] find

[00:38:22] its

[00:38:23] host

[00:38:23] almost

[00:38:23] it

[00:38:24] was

[00:38:24] cool

[00:38:24] absolutely

[00:38:25] I mean

[00:38:26] I know

[00:38:26] it didn't

[00:38:26] look like

[00:38:27] it

[00:38:45] genre

[00:38:46] to some

[00:38:46] extent

[00:38:47] but also

[00:38:47] just

[00:38:48] the

[00:38:49] inherent

[00:38:50] horror

[00:38:50] of

[00:38:51] what

[00:38:52] they're

[00:38:52] dealing

[00:38:53] with

[00:38:53] which

[00:38:53] is

[00:38:53] Sauron

[00:38:54] so

[00:38:55] I

[00:38:56] just

[00:38:56] really

[00:38:57] enjoyed

[00:38:57] this

[00:38:57] yeah

[00:38:59] absolutely

[00:38:59] and it

[00:39:00] just

[00:39:00] leading

[00:39:00] into

[00:39:01] this

[00:39:01] new

[00:39:02] Sauron

[00:39:03] this

[00:39:03] Halbrand

[00:39:03] character

[00:39:04] and him

[00:39:05] being

[00:39:05] at his

[00:39:05] lowest

[00:39:06] and

[00:39:06] then

[00:39:06] again

[00:39:07] as we

[00:39:07] talked

[00:39:08] about

[00:39:08] before

[00:39:09] him

[00:39:09] making

[00:39:10] his

[00:39:10] choices

[00:39:10] as he

[00:39:11] gets

[00:39:11] to the

[00:39:12] point

[00:39:15] which

[00:39:15] is

[00:39:18] the

[00:39:25] rise

[00:39:25] of

[00:39:26] Adar

[00:39:26] we

[00:39:27] see

[00:39:27] it

[00:39:27] there

[00:39:27] in

[00:39:28] that

[00:39:28] sequence

[00:39:29] when

[00:39:29] he's

[00:39:29] the

[00:39:29] one

[00:39:29] that

[00:39:29] stands

[00:39:30] up

[00:39:30] against

[00:39:30] Sauron

[00:39:30] but

[00:39:31] his

[00:39:31] rise

[00:39:31] and fall

[00:39:32] throughout

[00:39:32] the

[00:39:32] season

[00:39:33] was

[00:39:33] fantastic

[00:39:34] we talked

[00:39:34] more about

[00:39:34] the characters

[00:39:35] in the

[00:39:35] last

[00:39:35] episode

[00:39:36] so

[00:39:36] really

[00:39:37] the

[00:39:38] mirroring

[00:39:39] of

[00:39:39] what

[00:39:40] happened

[00:39:40] to

[00:39:40] Sauron

[00:39:41] happening

[00:39:41] to

[00:39:41] Adar

[00:39:42] at the

[00:39:42] end

[00:39:42] of

[00:39:45] say

[00:39:45] goodbye

[00:39:45] to

[00:39:46] the

[00:39:46] character

[00:39:46] really

[00:39:46] sad

[00:39:47] really

[00:39:47] affecting

[00:39:48] because

[00:39:48] I

[00:39:48] did

[00:39:49] think

[00:39:49] he

[00:39:49] became

[00:39:50] a

[00:39:50] featured

[00:39:51] character

[00:39:51] for us

[00:39:51] this

[00:39:51] season

[00:39:52] last

[00:39:52] season

[00:39:53] he was

[00:39:53] a

[00:39:54] villain

[00:39:54] I loved

[00:39:54] the actor

[00:39:54] that played him

[00:39:55] and I loved

[00:39:55] what they did

[00:39:56] with him

[00:39:56] last season

[00:39:57] but this

[00:39:57] season

[00:39:58] I felt like

[00:39:58] he was

[00:39:59] up there

[00:39:59] and could

[00:40:00] have been

[00:40:00] the leader

[00:40:01] of the

[00:40:01] opposition

[00:40:02] to

[00:40:03] Sauron

[00:40:03] in some

[00:40:04] senses

[00:40:05] have his

[00:40:05] own people

[00:40:06] turn on

[00:40:06] him

[00:40:06] when he

[00:40:07] had offered

[00:40:07] them

[00:40:07] so much

[00:40:08] and had

[00:40:09] wanted

[00:40:09] them to

[00:40:10] have their

[00:40:10] own

[00:40:12] civilization

[00:40:13] which is

[00:40:14] something

[00:40:14] that

[00:40:14] they

[00:40:15] felt

[00:40:15] Sauron

[00:40:15] didn't

[00:40:16] offer

[00:40:16] them

[00:40:17] and his

[00:40:17] fall

[00:40:17] really

[00:40:18] coming

[00:40:18] from him

[00:40:19] trying to

[00:40:20] send them

[00:40:20] all in

[00:40:21] to take

[00:40:21] out

[00:40:22] Eregion

[00:40:22] no matter

[00:40:23] what the

[00:40:23] cost

[00:40:24] I thought

[00:40:25] that was

[00:40:25] a really

[00:40:25] sad

[00:40:27] storyline

[00:40:27] but I

[00:40:28] loved

[00:40:28] that it

[00:40:29] echoed

[00:40:29] what

[00:40:29] happened

[00:40:30] to

[00:40:30] Sauron

[00:40:30] it was

[00:40:30] getting

[00:40:31] too big

[00:40:31] for his

[00:40:31] boots

[00:40:32] almost

[00:40:32] any other

[00:40:32] favourite

[00:40:33] scenes

[00:40:33] anything

[00:40:33] else

[00:40:34] that anybody

[00:40:34] else

[00:40:34] wants to

[00:40:34] throw

[00:40:35] out

[00:40:35] about

[00:40:35] the season

[00:40:36] that we

[00:40:36] haven't

[00:40:36] discussed

[00:40:37] lots

[00:40:37] there

[00:40:37] I mean

[00:40:38] we could

[00:40:39] go all

[00:40:39] night

[00:40:40] a faithful

[00:40:44] sort of

[00:40:44] retelling

[00:40:45] of just

[00:40:45] the series

[00:40:47] I do

[00:40:48] think it's

[00:40:48] interesting

[00:40:48] you said

[00:40:49] borrowing

[00:40:50] horror elements

[00:40:51] from

[00:40:52] you know

[00:40:53] into a

[00:40:53] non-horror

[00:40:54] genre

[00:40:54] but there's

[00:40:55] a lot

[00:40:56] of horror

[00:40:56] elements

[00:40:57] in Tolkien

[00:40:58] there's a lot

[00:40:58] of monsters

[00:40:59] and creepiness

[00:41:00] and the

[00:41:02] Barrow Whites

[00:41:02] like Anwen

[00:41:03] was talking

[00:41:03] about in the

[00:41:04] book

[00:41:04] I mean

[00:41:05] that's

[00:41:05] a really

[00:41:05] horror

[00:41:06] scene

[00:41:06] and

[00:41:08] the

[00:41:09] Balrogs

[00:41:10] are sort

[00:41:10] of larger

[00:41:10] than life

[00:41:11] horror

[00:41:11] but some

[00:41:12] of the

[00:41:12] other

[00:41:12] Tolkien

[00:41:13] monsters

[00:41:13] like

[00:41:14] Shelob

[00:41:14] that's

[00:41:16] like

[00:41:16] that's

[00:41:16] Stephen

[00:41:17] King

[00:41:17] kind

[00:41:17] of

[00:41:17] horror

[00:41:18] there

[00:41:18] oh

[00:41:19] definitely

[00:41:20] and I

[00:41:20] think

[00:41:21] sort

[00:41:21] of

[00:41:21] with

[00:41:21] Peter

[00:41:23] Jackson

[00:41:23] as well

[00:41:24] directing

[00:41:24] with his

[00:41:26] own

[00:41:26] horror

[00:41:26] sensibility

[00:41:27] is just

[00:41:28] absolutely

[00:41:28] perfect

[00:41:29] for it

[00:41:29] I mean

[00:41:29] I think

[00:41:30] it's just

[00:41:31] traditionally

[00:41:31] you know

[00:41:34] parents

[00:41:35] wouldn't

[00:41:36] necessarily

[00:41:36] you know

[00:41:37] given the

[00:41:38] Hobbit

[00:41:38] at 12

[00:41:39] years old

[00:41:40] and

[00:41:41] it's not

[00:41:42] talked about

[00:41:43] in a

[00:41:43] horror genre

[00:41:44] space

[00:41:45] and

[00:41:45] it's that

[00:41:46] but you're

[00:41:46] absolutely

[00:41:47] right

[00:41:47] has that

[00:41:48] threaded

[00:41:49] through it

[00:41:50] and

[00:41:52] in

[00:41:54] some ways

[00:41:55] you know

[00:41:56] you could see

[00:41:57] Peter Jackson

[00:41:58] like what he

[00:41:59] would pull out

[00:42:00] from his

[00:42:01] horror leanings

[00:42:03] in particular

[00:42:04] around

[00:42:04] Shelob

[00:42:05] really good

[00:42:07] and actually

[00:42:07] we kind of

[00:42:08] have a

[00:42:08] mini

[00:42:08] Shelob

[00:42:09] moment

[00:42:09] this

[00:42:10] season

[00:42:11] as well

[00:42:11] Isildur

[00:42:12] being saved

[00:42:13] by his

[00:42:13] wonderful

[00:42:14] horse

[00:42:14] Beric

[00:42:14] rhyming

[00:42:15] with my

[00:42:16] name

[00:42:16] from the

[00:42:18] lair of

[00:42:18] Shelob

[00:42:18] but it's

[00:42:19] a younger

[00:42:20] Shelob

[00:42:20] I think

[00:42:21] it's meant

[00:42:21] to be

[00:42:21] Shelob's

[00:42:22] parent

[00:42:23] right

[00:42:24] yeah

[00:42:25] or like

[00:42:26] the baby

[00:42:26] spiders

[00:42:27] might be

[00:42:27] Shelob

[00:42:28] what do

[00:42:28] you think

[00:42:28] I read an

[00:42:30] interview

[00:42:30] where they

[00:42:30] confirmed

[00:42:31] that they

[00:42:31] said it

[00:42:32] was baby

[00:42:33] Shelob

[00:42:33] because

[00:42:34] Shelob's

[00:42:34] been around

[00:42:34] for thousands

[00:42:35] of years

[00:42:35] so it

[00:42:36] was one

[00:42:37] of their

[00:42:37] cute little

[00:42:37] kind of

[00:42:38] inserts

[00:42:38] that they

[00:42:38] put in

[00:42:39] there

[00:42:39] fantastic

[00:42:40] for sure

[00:42:40] and I

[00:42:41] mean if

[00:42:41] you want

[00:42:41] to explore

[00:42:42] some horror

[00:42:43] I do

[00:42:44] recommend

[00:42:44] reading this

[00:42:45] to Marillion

[00:42:45] you've got

[00:42:46] werewolves

[00:42:46] you've got

[00:42:47] vampires

[00:42:47] you've got

[00:42:48] hands being

[00:42:49] cut off

[00:42:49] you've got

[00:42:50] all kinds

[00:42:50] of horrible

[00:42:51] things between

[00:42:52] creatures and

[00:42:53] other creatures

[00:42:53] and yeah

[00:42:54] Tolkien could

[00:42:55] get pretty

[00:42:56] dark when he

[00:42:56] wanted

[00:42:56] there you

[00:42:58] go that's

[00:42:59] what I'm

[00:42:59] getting you

[00:42:59] for Christmas

[00:42:59] John

[00:43:01] we'll close

[00:43:02] out our

[00:43:03] favorite scenes

[00:43:03] from season

[00:43:04] two and

[00:43:04] go on to

[00:43:05] one other

[00:43:05] topic for

[00:43:06] this

[00:43:06] some hopes

[00:43:07] for season

[00:43:08] three

[00:43:09] and

[00:43:11] Penny

[00:43:12] what's

[00:43:12] your hope

[00:43:13] for season

[00:43:13] three

[00:43:14] is a big

[00:43:14] hope

[00:43:14] I have

[00:43:15] several

[00:43:16] small hopes

[00:43:17] and one

[00:43:18] really big

[00:43:18] hope

[00:43:20] the small

[00:43:20] hopes are

[00:43:21] just more

[00:43:22] women

[00:43:22] that have

[00:43:23] names

[00:43:23] and stuff

[00:43:24] to do

[00:43:24] that aren't

[00:43:25] just set

[00:43:25] dressing

[00:43:27] yeah

[00:43:27] doesn't seem

[00:43:28] like a big

[00:43:28] ask

[00:43:31] Elendil

[00:43:31] and Isildur

[00:43:32] reunion

[00:43:33] it breaks

[00:43:34] my heart

[00:43:34] that Elendil

[00:43:35] doesn't know

[00:43:35] that his

[00:43:35] son survived

[00:43:38] I want

[00:43:38] someone to

[00:43:39] slap

[00:43:39] Kemmen

[00:43:40] across

[00:43:40] the face

[00:43:43] he just

[00:43:44] has a

[00:43:44] coming

[00:43:44] we'll all

[00:43:45] do it

[00:43:46] I think

[00:43:46] everybody

[00:43:47] should just

[00:43:47] line up

[00:43:48] slap

[00:43:49] slap

[00:43:49] slap

[00:43:49] slap

[00:43:49] slap

[00:43:51] absolutely

[00:43:52] like that

[00:43:52] scene from

[00:43:53] airplane

[00:43:53] where it

[00:43:53] gets progressively

[00:43:54] worse as

[00:43:55] people are

[00:43:55] lining up

[00:43:55] yes

[00:43:56] exactly

[00:43:56] that would

[00:43:57] make me so

[00:43:58] happy

[00:43:58] you know

[00:43:58] what

[00:43:59] actually

[00:43:59] he could

[00:43:59] do that

[00:44:00] as a

[00:44:00] fundraiser

[00:44:01] like

[00:44:01] people

[00:44:02] would pay

[00:44:02] good money

[00:44:03] to slap

[00:44:03] him

[00:44:04] to raise

[00:44:05] money

[00:44:18] I could

[00:44:18] go

[00:44:20] it's

[00:44:21] it's

[00:44:21] one of

[00:44:21] my

[00:44:22] favorite

[00:44:22] places

[00:44:22] that's

[00:44:23] ever

[00:44:23] been

[00:44:23] created

[00:44:24] by

[00:44:24] any

[00:44:24] author

[00:44:25] ever

[00:44:25] and

[00:44:25] I

[00:44:26] would

[00:44:27] love

[00:44:27] to

[00:44:27] see

[00:44:27] it

[00:44:27] coming

[00:44:28] into

[00:44:28] being

[00:44:30] yeah

[00:44:31] absolutely

[00:44:32] absolutely

[00:44:33] that's the

[00:44:34] location we saw

[00:44:34] right at the end

[00:44:35] of season

[00:44:35] two so

[00:44:36] hopefully

[00:44:36] that means

[00:44:36] it will

[00:44:37] be founded

[00:44:38] and we

[00:44:38] will see

[00:44:38] it being

[00:44:39] built

[00:44:39] I

[00:44:40] must say

[00:44:40] I love

[00:44:41] Rivendell

[00:44:41] as well

[00:44:42] my only

[00:44:43] issue

[00:44:43] is

[00:44:43] I used

[00:44:44] to work

[00:44:44] for a

[00:44:45] consultancy

[00:44:45] that was

[00:44:46] called

[00:44:46] oh no

[00:44:48] they were

[00:44:49] massive

[00:44:49] lord of the

[00:44:50] rings

[00:44:51] fans as

[00:44:52] well

[00:44:52] so they

[00:44:52] called their

[00:44:53] company

[00:44:53] Rivendell

[00:44:54] consulting

[00:44:55] which is

[00:44:56] just the

[00:44:57] weirdest

[00:44:57] thing

[00:44:57] ever

[00:44:57] that's the worst

[00:44:58] that's the worst

[00:44:59] I'm surprised

[00:45:00] they didn't like it

[00:45:01] exactly

[00:45:02] it was just

[00:45:03] kind of

[00:45:04] bizarre

[00:45:05] but anyway

[00:45:05] but you can tell

[00:45:06] everybody

[00:45:06] you worked

[00:45:07] in Rivendell

[00:45:07] and make it

[00:45:08] sound really nice

[00:45:08] I actually

[00:45:09] worked in Rivendell

[00:45:09] so I actually

[00:45:11] worked in Rivendell

[00:45:12] it just doesn't

[00:45:13] sound peaceful

[00:45:14] Muldell

[00:45:14] Rond was an

[00:45:15] absolute

[00:45:16] ass

[00:45:17] I mean

[00:45:18] my manager

[00:45:18] was

[00:45:21] fantastic

[00:45:23] great thoughts

[00:45:24] there Penny

[00:45:24] yeah I

[00:45:25] think most

[00:45:25] of those

[00:45:26] are doable

[00:45:26] we're definitely

[00:45:28] going to see

[00:45:28] that

[00:45:28] Allendell

[00:45:29] and Isildur

[00:45:30] reunion

[00:45:30] it's

[00:45:31] interesting

[00:45:31] thinking that

[00:45:33] so much

[00:45:33] happened

[00:45:34] in Numenor

[00:45:34] because

[00:45:35] he didn't

[00:45:36] know that

[00:45:36] Isildur was

[00:45:37] alive or

[00:45:37] nobody knew

[00:45:38] that Isildur

[00:45:39] was alive

[00:45:39] if they had

[00:45:39] known

[00:45:40] so much

[00:45:41] that wouldn't

[00:45:42] have gone on

[00:45:42] in Numenor

[00:45:43] how interesting

[00:45:44] brilliant stuff

[00:45:44] John

[00:45:45] how about

[00:45:45] yourself

[00:45:45] what are you

[00:45:46] looking forward

[00:45:46] to in season

[00:45:47] three

[00:45:47] men

[00:45:49] nine

[00:45:50] men

[00:45:51] in fact

[00:45:53] I

[00:45:54] kind of

[00:45:54] really want

[00:45:55] to get

[00:45:55] up close

[00:45:56] and personal

[00:45:56] with the

[00:45:57] future

[00:45:57] ringwraith

[00:45:58] as I say

[00:45:59] I mean

[00:46:00] there's such

[00:46:01] striking

[00:46:02] images

[00:46:02] whether it's

[00:46:04] on the

[00:46:05] page

[00:46:06] or whether

[00:46:07] it's through

[00:46:07] the drawings

[00:46:08] or whether

[00:46:09] it's through

[00:46:11] Peter Jackson's

[00:46:12] movies

[00:46:13] they're

[00:46:16] so

[00:46:17] creepy

[00:46:19] they're so

[00:46:21] ethereal

[00:46:22] and I

[00:46:23] want

[00:46:24] to know

[00:46:25] who

[00:46:26] these

[00:46:27] nine

[00:46:28] kings

[00:46:28] of men

[00:46:28] were

[00:46:29] because

[00:46:29] as well

[00:46:31] just the