[00:00:00] This is the Dreadful Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We're halfway through, we're talking about Penny Dreadful City of Angels Episode 5, Children of the Royal Sun. I told your mother you were a good cop. Should I go back and revise my opinion? Just say it.
[00:00:15] One, I don't know who you are today. Two, I know you're hiding something about last night. Three, you've been up and down like a yo-yo and that makes me nervous because four, I don't feel like stepping into a dangerous situation with an unstable armed yo-yo at my side.
[00:00:29] I'm fine. What happened with your brother? He told me some things. What things, Chief? It's private, Lewis. It's family. But we do this, we go in there, we risk our necks fine, but we are focused. We are by the book.
[00:00:50] Well, we call for backup and hand this over to a better team. You know there's no better team, Lewis. Welcome back, fellow Penny faithful. This is TV podcast industries. We are talking about the fifth episode of Penny Dreadful City of Angels Children of the Royal Sun.
[00:01:34] I'm one of your hosts, Derek. Hello there, fellow dreadfuls. I am one of your other hosts, John. And I am the other unstable yo-yo in this group. I am Chris. You know, it took me a while to choose what the quote for this week would be.
[00:01:47] And one of the things I absolutely hate doing because I feel bad doing it is editing out curse words from dialogue from TV shows. Purely because I think it's really bad of me to edit out their dialogue.
[00:01:59] I didn't write it. Why do I get the right to edit it? But I just can't use curse words on the podcast, unfortunately. As some of our long-term listeners know, we have a rating for a podcast which means we can't use curse words on it. Damn.
[00:02:11] I can't change it because with 500 episodes of the show, I'd have to go back and change it for every single old podcast. That's gross. That's a thank you. Thanks, John. That'll give me a little extra edit on the road tomorrow. To release tomorrow, I'm sorry.
[00:02:28] Of course, I'm not going to be on the road editing a podcast tomorrow. No, don't do that. That could be really interesting. The roving producer editing. Admittedly, over the years, the five or six years we've been podcasting, I did edit on a plane to Thailand.
[00:02:43] I've edited beside a pool in France. I've edited the podcast. So I've edited some weird places over the years. Yes, you have. Definitely a hotel room in London. And in New York. And in New York for New York Comic-Con. We've recorded in New York as well.
[00:02:58] I've recorded in New York. That's true. He was in an apartment in New York when a firearm was going off. Oh yeah, that was great fun. Lots of weird stuff over the last six years. I didn't burn down. I am not. Santa more.
[00:03:09] They did not raise me like Rahul. Yes, it was just an evacuation that was going on. Wasn't it? You weren't actually on fire. No, no, I am hot, but that's besides the point. Very true. Very true. Thank you. But we're back for Children of the Royal Sun.
[00:03:27] Yes, we are. Yeah. And as we're halfway through the season, we'll give a big shout out to our wonderful Patreons who've been supporting us throughout the year this year since we started our Patreon. We've got two brand new Patreons in the last week.
[00:03:38] Guys, we've got Cassandra McIntosh and Jenny V who supported us over on Patreon. We did mention last week that we'll be recording an exclusive Patreon movie chat about Captain America, the Winter Soldier in the next week or so. And that will be available exclusively over on Patreon.
[00:03:53] So Cassandra and Jenny, thanks so much for joining us. You'll be able to get access to that podcast. Well, once we've recorded and put it out for you, you'll get access to it. But you'll be able to get access to that in the next couple of weeks.
[00:04:03] So thanks so much for that. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much, Cassandra and Jenny for the support. Really, really appreciated. Yes, thank you, Viva Rantetta and my favorite 1990s personal computer. McIntosh. By the time, yeah, McIntosh 1990s, early 1990s.
[00:04:21] So I thought you would have gone for Cassie as an outman's daughter. Oh, I could go Cassandra Kane if that's better. Oh, maybe, maybe. That's pretty good. Well, yeah, there you go. See, that's exciting. More on brand with the comics. Absolutely.
[00:04:34] And thank you again to all of the rest of our patrons. You can support us over there on patreon.com slash TV podcast industries. But if you don't want to support us on Patreon or can't support us at the moment, we know times are tough.
[00:04:45] You can support us by giving us a review over iTunes or by sharing the podcast as usual. Share it with everybody else that you know that's watching Penning Dreadful City of Angels. Yes, because sharing the podcast is sharing the love.
[00:04:57] We actually did get a couple of brand new reviews, definitely for the Dreadful podcast because it is dreadful by name, but not in nature. First up, we had a five star review. Thank you so much for Saddle Soar 98 because that's just an amazing day. It's very cool.
[00:05:14] People premonit. Yeah. They said best podcast this season of Penny Dreadful. As I said, five stars and they said the beautiful words. Very insightful recap of the show. I always look forward to their thoughts. Thank you so much Saddle Soar 98. Thanks so much. You get them looked at?
[00:05:33] Yeah, thank you Saddle Soar 98. We also had US Whocast. Who? Yes, US Whocast. They said thoroughly entertaining five stars and the description was very detailed and a considered podcast covering a great show.
[00:05:51] Yes, the Whocast in the US are no us and I would say who but that's still good. Five stars. I'm so happy. Thank you. I was presuming that's a doctor who cast Chris. Oh, that makes sense. Yes.
[00:06:08] And you know the way some people shorten it and cast when they talk about podcasts because they're cooler than us. We go for TV podcast industries to make it almost impossible to find us.
[00:06:17] So thanks so much to everybody that's found us on iTunes and given us some reviews as well. We also got a review from Lizno. Give us another five stars and said truly enjoyable. I love the banter among the hosts. We don't have banter. No, we don't.
[00:06:30] We have crack. We have conno conniptions because that's a bad one. What do we have? We have crack. We definitely have. We have banter as well. We have banter. We have banter. We're gibberish and gibberish. Yeah, we have gibberish banter and crack indeed. Yeah. Thanks Lizno.
[00:06:51] And that just sounds like a good night. Thanks US Whocast. It does sound like a good night. Yes, definitely. Just again, in case you don't know that Ireland crack is just a bit of fun. Right?
[00:07:02] So this is the show is only showing in America and in Canada and in Australia. So they may not be aware that that's true crack being spelled C R A I C.
[00:07:12] Don't want to take a knock and down our door to arrest us for having crack in our podcast. Exactly. We also got an iTunes review for TV podcast industries as well. Great podcast five star review. Love all these shows.
[00:07:26] These guys cover the pub quizzes are great fun too. And that was from the Steve 38. Thank you so much, Steve. Yep for that review. Really know who that is. We do Steve Brown. Steve Brown. Really good. Wonderful contributor to our feedback. Yes, he is such a wonderful contributor.
[00:07:44] Shame he's lying about the whole quizzes though. That's just like blatant misrepresentation. It's just because you don't participate in the show. Exactly. They are great fun. They're so much fun that John's actually still trying to put together his pub quiz for our
[00:07:58] 500th podcast which will be coming up at the end of this season of Penny's Red Full City of Angels. So I only got five more weeks to go. I know lots of prep required. Loads of prep. Yes. Podcast old, not really old.
[00:08:12] Another thing Chris is because you don't drink when you do it. That's the problem. That's why I always say grab yourself a drink. That's true. To soften the blow of these mind bending really difficult questions that I'm throwing at everyone.
[00:08:28] Well, once again thank you to everybody that said that said some thanks here at the podcast and joined our Patreon as well and given us some reviews and iTunes been really good to you. Thank you. Yes, definitely. Thanks everyone for all the support really good going for sure.
[00:08:44] Right. Yeah. Penny's Red Full City of Angels Episode 5 Children of the Royal Son. Derek who directed this episode. The episode was directed by Roxanne Dawson. Directed some of the biggest TV shows out there at the moment and did house cards.
[00:09:02] This is us, the Americans also directed an episode of Marvel's runaways three episodes of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Probably well known to a lot of us that grew up in the 80s and 90s as Balala Torres
[00:09:13] on Star Trek Voyager, the half Klingon half human crew member on that show as well. So started out in acting directed two episodes of Voyager and then continued on working within Star Trek and now within loads of other shows.
[00:09:24] So great to have her on board for Penny Red Full City of Angels. Yes, Lieutenant Balala Torres indeed. I still remember Sof Ang Lee Voyager but at the same time I can't remember a standard episode of Balala Torres just because they all blur into one memorable character.
[00:09:46] If that makes sense. Yeah absolutely, yeah she was pretty sensual as a show. She was there from right at the start and then as part of the Maki and then continued through the show. Sorry fellow Penny Faisal we did cover Star Trek Picard quite recently so I've been
[00:09:58] watching a lot of Star Trek so that's why all this stuff is stuck in my head. The episode was written by Jose Rivera. Did you get that guys? I didn't say John Logan. This episode was not... I'm punching my pearls! I don't do that. Not on a podcast.
[00:10:16] Yeah, otherwise you'll be speaking soprano. This is the only episode that is written by Jose Rivera for Penny Red Full and the first one as I mentioned before not written by John Logan for this series
[00:10:28] he had a couple of episodes in season three of the original Penny Red Full also not written by him but I guess the extension of the show to ten episodes all of the writers can come in and get a main credit for it for the episodes.
[00:10:39] Jose Rivera is probably best known for writing the Motorcycle Diaries, the movie about the early years of Shay Gervara and the movie adaptation of Jack Kerouac's On The Road as well. That's a really good movie. I have seen neither. Really?
[00:10:54] By writing alone on this episode I may actually clutch my pearls and sit down and watch them. You don't think I know how to use that term properly? I don't think you do. Stop clutching your pearls, Chris. That's not how you use that.
[00:11:09] Definitely not how you use that phrase. So I know it's a terrible, terrible thing and it's probably a shame on my cinematography kind of point of view. All your houses, Chris. But you can hold it against me.
[00:11:23] But I've seen some things that most people probably have never seen. Multiple times I've watched Encino Man slash California Man. In the Army now, Jury Judy and most importantly the seminal work, Biodome. If this was Game of Thrones it would be curses on all your houses, Chris.
[00:11:41] There would be red, blue, green and yellow weddings all over the show. Oh just people like stripping me naked walking down the street going shame, shame, shame. Especially after those five movies that you mentioned. I'd highly recommend Motorcycle Diaries. Thought that was a really good film.
[00:11:58] Definitely check that out if you do get the chance. But Jon, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for the episode? Sure. Matteo Vega grapples with the aftermath of the murder of Officer Riley but Rio puts him at ease.
[00:12:12] Josephina Vega confides in Sister Molly who's shocked to discover Josephina is Tiago's sister. Meanwhile Tiago and Lewis' investigation takes them from the Sonoratown slums to the Vega house. While Dr Peter Kraft receives an alarming phone call from Elsa asking for help to bury her murdered husband, Mr Branson.
[00:12:33] Dottie Minter warns rocket scientist Brian Koenig to keep clear of the Nazis as Kurt watches on. Alex lectures Councilman Townsend about his own connection to Kurt. As Tiago discovers and confronts his brother for the murder of Officer Riley, Matteo is unrepentant
[00:12:51] but Tiago sets him free as Lewis captures another member of the Petrucho gang, Diego. A big episode this week.
[00:13:00] I'll call this out quickly and I was going to keep this for notes but if you did follow our Dreadful podcast as we went back through the first three seasons of Penny Dreadful,
[00:13:08] this is very similar in tone to Season 2 Episode 5 of the original Penny Dreadful where basically it's sexy time. Sexy Penny Dreadful. Penny Dreadful where every character has sex and there's something behind every manipulation or every type of relationship that's going on in the show
[00:13:28] and all culminates or comes to a head as we said at the time in this episode. Yes, absolutely. Well I tell you what from this episode I would certainly like to be a tailor. I would certainly measure that in a leg for sure.
[00:13:44] I feel really bad for the actor on this part because I was just like you have a whole crew with you. You have a fantastic actress who is not half bad on the eye and you're trying to, it's probably a cold set in your butt naked
[00:14:06] and then you got a guy who's not half bad either to the eye. And at the whole time you have to kind of just stay in character like where your, what do they call them? Merkins? No, it is a merkin.
[00:14:20] Yeah, so my god this is probably one of the hardest scenes and I'm using that specifically for a young actor. I don't know, I think you can play it off that he's in character the whole time if anything does pop up during the scene.
[00:14:38] Well absolutely, he could be called the tailor of Panama just to keep with the Latin American theme. Look at you, well done. I mean I was just thinking well the next time I go to get a suit fitted or something like that say for example a wedding suit
[00:14:54] and you know would the tailor expect me to sort of lay down with him? Well not necessarily lay down, I was just thinking more that he would take my measurements whilst I was on close. It's a very different tailor Chris.
[00:15:09] Hopefully Chris he wouldn't do that, I think that would be maybe slightly unprofessional. Especially if you were going for your wedding suit as well.
[00:15:16] That was the way you had to get measured up for your new suit and the weird thing is because they're so baggy it's almost like they're not really measured up properly anyway.
[00:15:28] That was the part I was kind of like when you're doing a suit suit do you not just go super big on everything? It basically looks like you stole Shaquille O'Neal or Michael Jordan's suit and put it on a ten year old.
[00:15:42] Apparently part of the original origin of the suit suits was that they were suits bought cheaply because they were oversized.
[00:15:50] So they were ill fitting suits was how they started in around 32-33 but by the time it had come up to this stage the bigger members of the community,
[00:15:58] the most important members of the community would want to make sure they have a proper tailored suit suit that's made to fit perfectly even though that's baggy doesn't mean it can't be fit perfectly. That is true.
[00:16:09] Bagginess let's say and I suppose Rhea does point out that the reason why he stripped naked is actually because he's covered in the blood of the person he just murdered a day before.
[00:16:19] So unless you go for your wedding suit fitting after murdering someone John, I doubt someone will ask you to take off.
[00:16:25] Well, it's interesting you should say that because I did think that we should save this for the podcast but I do think that this is the podcast but I do think.
[00:16:37] So it's getting very metaphysical now but like I do think that you know it was like she was taking it off the clothes so that she could you know he could go for a shower,
[00:16:48] bathe him down and all that and then kind of went I can kill two birds with one stone here and measure up for the suit while I'm doing it. And then all that was bypassed as they basically went into a hot steamy threesome which I'm surprised still happened.
[00:17:02] As you mentioned, Derek, when a flick knife is thrown at the wall I think any kind of passion I would have at that stage would soon deflate. Yeah, quite with with a knife sticking into the wood so to speak. So speaking of deflating and other really bad segues.
[00:17:23] Let's talk about some big moments from this. I just, it was a terrible segues. I'm going to own it. It is a great segues. I tried. You know Chris, you know it's being our big moments for the episode really just could have been your segues.
[00:17:39] You haven't tried too hard. But I like that the term of deflation and big so it's a big moment we're going to deflate this. I'm going to deflate those big moments by handing over to John. Yep, trying too hard Chris don't worry about it. You're ready.
[00:17:54] Yeah, screw you. It's going to deflate this moment by handing over to John. Well my big moment is that lovers in the air in Los Angeles. I did call it sexy penny dreadful back for the original first three seasons but I'm thinking you know lovers in the air.
[00:18:18] I kind of thought that was maybe a bit more in keeping and definitely love is in the air in Los Angeles. You know we have a threesome or sexy, sultry threesome that segues from a coat fitting.
[00:18:36] We have a two-sum that looks very wholesome and sort of ethereal in a sense. There's date night as well and we have the love scene involving wood and by that I mean a wood.
[00:18:52] But it probably does involve Peter Kraft's own wooden implement as well shall we say but he is yeah. I'm sorry this is because I pointed out that this is an energy podcast isn't it? That's the reason why you guys have gone so inuendo heavy in this episode. Inuendo.
[00:19:17] Alright let's all come back to being adults. Yes we'll try.
[00:19:22] So I think to begin with you know we have I'm going to go Elsa and Peter first of all because you know right at the start we see Elsa effectively picking a blood bag for herself so that she can kill this poor unfortunate effectively pass him off.
[00:19:41] As her husband Mr. Branson in order so that she can effectively ensnare and Peter more or bring him deeper to her so to speak and I think yeah that was kind of interesting that they ended off making love on the freshly dug open grave of this poor unfortunate from from the bar and just after the barrier then but.
[00:20:06] The one thing I did really really enjoy about the scene was just because they're both from Germany.
[00:20:14] The setting the lighting of it all was really it felt brothers grim it felt like you would see it was moonlit and all this kind of thing and I thought you know the two of them that the immigrants from Germany and these tales from their own childhood from their culture of the brothers
[00:20:33] grim and it felt very brothers grim and it was a grim act in that he was hiding and this dead body as a doctor so I mean that's even worse I mean it literally is and to protect Elsa you know he certainly has no love lost for Mr. Branson given what web of of tales and lies that have been spawned by Elsa
[00:20:58] but it ended off with them frolicking on this freshly dug grave.
[00:21:04] Yeah that was truly grim just quickly been referring to this guy that she murdered as a as a poor unfortunate and they have great pains to point out this is someone that was just wanted to go home have sex with her and hurt her at the beginning of the episode even though this is a demon magda.
[00:21:21] The guy that you picked up for the bar they also did highlight that he's probably not the greatest of people himself as well so.
[00:21:27] To be murdered and stuffed into a grave and then have two people sex on top of that grave as well I think that's where I'm coming from I think no matter what is sexual preference may have been because it could have been for bondage in which case that's what all she could have been asking you know you're gonna hurt me so it could be whips and chains and.
[00:21:46] And all this kind of stuff and it could have been slings you never you name it then.
[00:21:52] That's there's nothing people to consent on that and the whole plan was so that he would play dirty with her she would have those red marks those bruises in order to make the scene that she sets more convincing for for Peter craft and and you know he has no love for.
[00:22:14] Mr. Branson as I say from her tales but in the end this was not Mr. Branson this is not her husband and Frank indeed is still inside her rather than he has gone out to play and stay over somewhere and he is literally you know just snuggled into a belly and effectively.
[00:22:35] I love that Peter didn't ask any questions at all when she said I sent sent Frank away and you just get Peter can I go and just moves on the conversation about the murder of the husband who doesn't really care at all.
[00:22:47] And she told him in the past that she has zero friends your family and can't escape Mr. Branson like so where would she possibly sent Frank off to the only other people that she seems to know in LA.
[00:22:57] Our piece of evidence and his kids so he left them behind to join her so but he wasn't gonna ask any questions it seems fine enough to him and now we know how weird Dr. Craft is.
[00:23:09] Yes I'm a great person you just buried I don't know that seems excessively weird. It felt like a quickie it felt like the moment overtook them certainly maybe for him because he's obviously been trying to distance himself from what happened at the party.
[00:23:25] You know playing happy families playing sorry with his kids and his wife and you know his wife Linda kind of says I thought we were trying to make a go of it like a fresh start you almost got that sense and then she.
[00:23:36] Happyness couldn't last in true fashion puts the face on lights up a cigarette when he basically is not convincing her of why he's about to leave to to go off to hospital.
[00:23:50] Three quick things from this word the first one is I love my does version of the tick tock swipe challenge.
[00:23:58] That's exactly what happens in this she's just walking his mind through it was just so flawlessly done the transition from my Delta to the point where I was like how did they just like get everyone to and freeze now say exactly those positions for the next 15 minutes when we change.
[00:24:20] Pretty much I'm sure I was gonna actually ask you to explain what a tick tock challenges Chris because I'm old and but I think I get that one I think it's that with that.
[00:24:29] It's basically they swipe in front of the camera and you they change their on the bruising and the things like that it is my desk so she's able to create any facade anything so very much the blood bag was just that she needed a body.
[00:24:49] But I've been wondering and I've brought it up before what is the end goal with people and I'm starting to think again. It's it's a joint Chris with his crazy delusions and ideas of where the story might be going.
[00:25:06] Could it be that he was a Nazi doctor in Essen and not to doctor who potentially did some very bad things with gas or chemicals or XYZ and Elsa is going to bring him along and like basically because he thought he can do anything with the Nazis party.
[00:25:31] Not the actual the bad Nazis but the actual the Union Nazi party. Could it be that he like potentially it's like he was a gas doctor or something like that and that's where she's going to go okay now build me a bomb.
[00:25:46] That's the next step it could be something that it's just I she she now has him hook line and sinker so no matter what she can go you buried a body for me you are mine.
[00:25:59] Yeah I mean Linda talks about what he did in Essen with respect and his family.
[00:26:05] It is possible that he could have been a doctor at one of the earlier kind of forced labour camps and concentration camps and I think technically while there wasn't like there wasn't as such an Auschwitz.
[00:26:23] I don't think by 1938 not to say that I think Belsen and some of maybe some of the other ones were any better by any stretch of the imagination but and certainly like Germany had these policies against people with disabilities and mental physical as well as for homosexuals for gypsies.
[00:26:47] So it may be something around then but it would be interesting then why he would necessarily have moved from Germany to America I agree I think this still has the most or a lot of legs to go to really understand how he inserts into this because I think from a personal point of view.
[00:27:07] Yeah he's hook line and sinker here like he's caught between a rock and a hard place you could tell Linda Linda's kind of warned Magda you know it and it's difficult how this German American bunds fits in as well you know we've only fleetingly seen them and to what extent they fit in but yeah it's like I presume that's where the connection is going to come to sister Molly is between.
[00:27:33] The blunt trying to get access to the radio stations and sister Molly being so big on the radio stations that's where they're going to get in and maybe that's.
[00:27:41] Elsa needs to have a voice there remember Peters the voice of this group as well so he's most likely gonna be the person that would be speaking on those radio broadcast so potentially being the person the word in his ear for what he's to say to the nation once it's open on the airwaves when those two stories connects because again Molly is the same Molly doesn't have any direct connection to.
[00:28:03] To the magdas over here and she doesn't really have that connection to the supernatural I suppose in some senses there's other stuff that we will talk about as we get into her story from the episode but.
[00:28:14] But no no specific version of Magda is side by side with Molly or her family at the moment so yeah potentially that's the connection between them as far as Peter goes I always I always just assumed over the course of the series so far that he's been in the US for over 10 years because his young his eldest son is 10.
[00:28:30] So I just assumed he's been in America for those 10 years so that's why I'm back leaving leaving as in 20, 20, 29 kind of thing.
[00:28:39] Yeah it could be something around the first world war possibly and rather than anything to do with the lead up to the second world war yeah so I'm not even sure from Linda's warning to Elsa I'm not even sure whether it's that scary a reason that he's done something really bad in as an or whether it's just trying to warn off a woman that's.
[00:28:59] Trying to steal your husband because she already stole them from his yeah ex family it could be simply just trying to warn off the other woman that I was the other woman once and he let he's leaving me for you kind of thing yeah exactly it could be that.
[00:29:11] And I suppose time will tell that's the thing we're halfway through the season and time will tell yeah coming up so. But speaking of Germans we also have towns and German taken with a Chinese takeout yes date night for and council man towns and with Kurt.
[00:29:30] And this again I think was kind of interesting it just put a different light on council man towns and I don't think he's any less of horror into whatever but it's in a sense that you.
[00:29:41] See a little bit of a and more bounce in his step and he's thinking about his appearance because obviously Kurt has injected a fair amount of.
[00:29:53] Sort of self confidence into him and fire exactly I love the fact that you see him dancing to the tune it kind of reminded me in front of the mirror as a kid kind of.
[00:30:03] Popping away or singing to a pop song and I like that kind of that that he was doing that and then he's surprised to see Kurt there with the takeout in his hand and we have date night at.
[00:30:21] Townsend's gaff and the dancing is beautifully styled as well it's like he's trying to emulate like a Frank Sinatra type style when he's dancing on to the song it's not just dancing in your bedroom it's being happily dancing your best possible dance you know that that's what I kind of got from it.
[00:30:39] Anybody else getting some kind of vibes about him that he's so in love with this idea that he's able to be with curse that he kind of seem seems like he may push those boundaries a bit he may come out if this wasn't 1938 he seems like he may want to admit this to the world until Alex gives him a little snapback.
[00:30:59] It feels like he's almost kind of going oh he cares I found the person I love does it matter it seems like he's just at that point where he's about to push over the edge until Alex goes hang on a second.
[00:31:10] You know what's gonna be said about this your father what your father is gonna say what cancer one back is gonna say and why is she gonna use this against you know it just felt like he was genuinely going to be possibly a first step in a path to freedom for homosexuality in a way because he seems like he's gonna go and.
[00:31:28] This is amazing I can tell the world and she's like nope don't do that yeah no I think it I just think it's a really kind of.
[00:31:34] Nice way of approaching towns and character from a different point of view and in a sense it's his own self esteem and I know after that knockdown from Alex at his office.
[00:31:49] You know he's surprised and pleasantly you can see the little kind of smile the unexpected arrival of Kurt with the Chinese takeout to me felt like it was. And out of the blue because he wasn't expecting you know that is waiting for you by the time.
[00:32:07] Maybe but I know even with Kurt saying not you know he makes that point of nice tie and like has he been prepped by Alex you know these kind of.
[00:32:19] Sort of things so you know you see that town's end is being used and I think it's one of the great things about penny dreadful in the past is that you know they can throw light and shade.
[00:32:31] On to characters and it may not be that you like them anymore but they always kind of give their perspective you always. Told the reasons or the justification as to why someone is doing what they're doing I think with tanzin's case it's.
[00:32:49] You know that there is discrimination there is a bias and an inherent prejudice there. But maybe no more than most Americans at that time.
[00:33:02] But he's also power hungry he's doing this to further his position and I think just to come back from that and see him in his own bubble of his own home dancing enjoying himself being taken aback and surprised by Kurt arriving.
[00:33:18] I just thought was kind of nice little change in tack for this character the home was amazing as well. Oh my God yeah it was just like that was the biggest takeaway for me I was like oh my God I really wish I could live in 1930s L.
[00:33:33] Just with the architecture in the house by itself yeah absolutely so I'll put my hand on my heart after complaining about the extended dance scenes previously in the season.
[00:33:45] And this was perfect for me this just gave a nice spring of the step to the character and John as you said it's not about trying to make you like a villain like he is exactly.
[00:33:57] But at the same time they humanize him by going no this man has found a forbidden love that is in that word I love in his mind we know that potentially Alex is steering this with the Germans and Nazis in order so that.
[00:34:15] His German taken with the Chinese takeout is manufactured and to keep him indoors to keep him going to his midnight rendezvous in the park.
[00:34:28] I think potentially the plan as you said like he could have been based on this one of the first characters back in potentially in the days to.
[00:34:38] Like be out and proud obviously that is probably too far for Alex that's not what they wanted with this plan this was just put him in control yeah she has to remind them.
[00:34:50] And that even that reminder does little to quench that flame so it will be interesting to see how this may blow back in her face I think one of the themes they may explore is that even though Elsa.
[00:35:06] And my dad I should say whispers in the ears of the characters and prods them in the direction she can't control them and that's something we've seen she gets angry when human will exert itself.
[00:35:20] And she they don't do what she has whispered for them to do we saw this before where she literally as Alex and then Magda blew out all the windows.
[00:35:33] Getting angry and I think that's a theme where we'll see towards the end which is no matter how much evil prods us and whispers us like human will will win out sometimes human.
[00:35:48] I think just quickly as well for me I think from a writer's perspective giving this idea that you know like you're talking about free will but also seeing towns and possibly in a way that he may almost giving him this other dimension means it always kind of leaves the possibility open that.
[00:36:06] Townsend could change his mind that he's not this straight jacketed villain and that there is always the potential from his own experience by being homosexual that he may actually begin to be able to empathize.
[00:36:23] He may also not of course but I think that's really good writing device because it does always allow you and leave you options of which direction this character can go with in within the show and and that is why I was thinking it's great when they show these different sides in Penny Dreadfall.
[00:36:46] Absolutely like that so good at doing that you know it's one of the things that John Logan really is great at doing is just creating these kind of multi layered characters you know just really interesting Michael Gladys was doing the live tweet for.
[00:36:58] Penny Dreadful city of angels the other night to actually plays cancelment hands and this whole scene was also choreographed by Tommy Tom the Irish choreographer who did the big dad sequence from episode three Chris.
[00:37:10] But I think one of the things that he was talking about was what he loves about Penny Dreadful what Michael Gladys was saying what he loves about Penny Dreadful is they're also using dance as one of the languages of the show much like all of the other languages of all the main characters in the show they're using dance itself as a language within the show so.
[00:37:28] Just thought that was a really interesting note this dance itself is called the broken hearted soft shoe is the dance that was created so you may be right the idea that he was at home alone and then decided to put on the record and dance because he's alone.
[00:37:45] And then that's when Kurt arrives potentially that's exactly the thing he's feeling alone feeling like he's able to do a little have a little moment with himself effectively turns up and makes him even happier.
[00:37:57] But learn to dance in three weeks after only doing one class of tap when he was younger so I think you did a great job. Good stuff good stuff.
[00:38:04] I think the other big love element probably less love certainly one side of it more sexy raunchy central hot passionate is we've got the Pichu co threesome.
[00:38:17] You know all initiated by a desire to wash the blood of officer Riley off Mateo's body and then on undressing real gets other ideas and we have fly Rico come in and join them which I know we had discussed about you know because maybe it being.
[00:38:39] You know being on the streets he had been a survivor he had done his you know you got the sense that he had been a jiggler on the streets and and then effectively he would earn his money wherever but also maybe that he just had that taste.
[00:38:53] And you know or is gay but certainly here we see he's bisexual enjoying a well is being the other slice of bread to Rio and Mateo's ham sandwich I suppose it's by Rico not fly is by. Indeed.
[00:39:16] But you know the really interesting thing here and I think two points for me is one just how at the same time it's contrasted so you know you have these oranges these yellows.
[00:39:28] And the fire in a sub this Pichu co threesome and you contrast it with the fairly cool tones of Tiago Molly just pure visual you know it's suggestive you know you get the sense of.
[00:39:41] The Holy Spirit with Molly and Tiago both of them in some ways potentially touched by spirits the hand of God Santa Muerta whatever.
[00:39:52] And with the two guys it's this visceral central side of things you know and in both cases potentially it certainly one of them it's love making for for power you know Rio is reinforcing her message she talks about of.
[00:40:10] The children of the sum that he shouldn't hold on to killing and have no regret for killing officer Riley you know effectively by making him feel great immediate the afterwards like if if he kills another four or five people and she does that with fly Rico is like well I'll go off and kill four or five
[00:40:34] more people but you know her whole sort of speech about him being my warrior my avenging angel you know that it's it's goodbye to that former self of yours you know welcome in the new powerful confident Matteo don't feel weak anymore and this is reinforcing that through through the sex the sensuality of it.
[00:40:57] It's it's literally massaging not only as ego but a few other things you know this is the power play this is to make him her warrior.
[00:41:08] It's the reward in a sense and with Tiago Molly you get the sense it is equally consensual but it's your just wondering it is there something else around Tiago Molly because it seems very different to the three some you know it feels much more standard husband wife almost but.
[00:41:34] I suppose in the conversation that Molly has with Tiago is she trying to reinforce her own position here to Tiago so I you know I think Penny dreadful has used sex she's love really interestingly and and as a real and.
[00:41:53] For sort of nature for not just the act itself but in showing these other power plays and feelings and positions that people can have in society and this I thought was just very much along those lines and I thought it was really nicely done with the contrast between the three some and the two some effectively.
[00:42:18] Yeah the real pillars of Penny Redfield always been love sex death and horror basically so I'm getting most of them in this one episode. Good one John good point and Chris join take us on to your big moment for the episode.
[00:42:30] Yeah very much mine is about Tiago and how he slips. He's slipping further and further from being this honorable officer this this pillar of justice that mention describes him as being to Mama Vega like Mitchell describes why he was happy to work with Tiago and we see.
[00:42:53] The fall of Tiago it's starting to he is crumbling that the honorable officer so first of all yeah as John just described the soapy dishes did lead to a slip in the bedroom with the holiday home.
[00:43:08] And it's not just this Molly it's the fact that it's a suspect. It's a yeah it's like in theory you're breaking one of the core tenants of being a police of you are exactly getting romantically involved with a suspect and unbeknownst to him the suspect is lying.
[00:43:26] Yeah he's caught in lies multiple times. Yeah and this episode particularly they call that one big one yeah yeah do you want to quickly jump in on that. Yeah absolutely I'd like the scene when the lying in bed after that sex and they're having the conversation where.
[00:43:43] Molly learns of Santa Marta's touch on Tiago and then tells him the story of her mother saving her when she was younger by finding some men who were able to help them out and shelter them for the night.
[00:43:56] Turns out to be a lie because the story story is we told to justina when they meet before Molly learns that justina is is Tiago sister and she tells of the story of exactly the same night.
[00:44:11] And it ends in a very different way it ends with her being left alone with some of the older men who abuse her and her mother either cares nothing for us or is giving payment in the front of the van herself.
[00:44:25] In some way but it sounds like she's laughing in the front of the van drinking with somebody else and leaving her daughter 10 year old daughter alone with two men in the back of the van so.
[00:44:33] So she tells Tiago this story so that he will go easy on her dragon mother as she says.
[00:44:41] She's specifically covering up the truth to try and sell her mother as a nicer person than she is and someone that may not be capable of the murders that she's at this stage probably committed on the Hazard family.
[00:44:56] So my part is you're led to believe based on the way that is portrayed that one of these stories is true. Most likely the the one where Molly says this to the sister. Yeah, I'm starting to believe that neither. Okay, that like Molly.
[00:45:17] She spins this web she is a show woman so that we're kind of that she is to all the types of purposes and actress.
[00:45:27] And as part of that she is able to weave seamlessly like lines of dialogue and I do believe that both of these are lies and she when she knows and finds out that Tiago. It is the brother she gets Oh God I may be caught in a lie.
[00:45:50] Both of these if they ever discuss and I think that's kind of one of these parts where we do learn as part of the slip it's not just Tiago slip but it's a slip of an actress. Yeah, I think with Molly.
[00:46:05] I think it's that it feels like that classic 1930s you know when you see the some of the quotes from the Hollywood stars of the past and it's like give the public what they want that they themselves were always having to put on this facade.
[00:46:24] I think that this is kind of that feeling with Molly.
[00:46:28] And so I think with Josephina and you know she didn't know that Tiago was her brother out when she told the story so she's it is it just this facade it's that I'm here to make people feel better about themselves.
[00:46:44] I do this on a Sunday service and that's that's the power of it. It's a spectacle everyone is uplifted it hammers home the message and that that's what she does here.
[00:46:55] This is still her public face even though she's been brought into her private and sort of rooms and this is still her public face to Josephina and so and it's different to what Tiago that this is what he wants to hear that she is it that she's not.
[00:47:13] Bruce Lee battered or bullied by her mother so he's trying to almost console him at the moment there's still elements of that that I keep thinking about it but the danger is that she is actually doing this purposefully and that she is a almost like a spin doctor as well.
[00:47:31] You know which side does it lie on is it does it have the innocence behind it or is it spin doctors and that's the really interesting thing I think with Molly.
[00:47:44] But to your point as well Chris this is one of Tiago slips here in this episode you know Lewis is always saying throughout this.
[00:47:54] You know you're not telling me something because he knows he can't tell him or he shouldn't be doing it and I think Nathan Lane again is just like absolutely awesome in this.
[00:48:06] And that that suspicion that he has all the way through this and as they do their investigation is just really really is so well done and I love how he plays it because it's not just a suspicion it doesn't sound like he's suspicious that Tiago might have been involved in the death of Riley he's almost.
[00:48:23] Speaking for everybody else he's kind of saying to him look you're in the department you got here on your own marriage but if you don't stand up and give them nothing to question then everybody will question you everybody will blame you if you don't.
[00:48:35] Come here beyond reproach you know it's he's saying you know there was definitely a declaration from war from the Mexican community in this city.
[00:48:43] And low and behold nobody could find you for 24 hours you can't let that kind of stuff happen yeah you know I don't care where you were I don't care if you were with a new girlfriend or anything like that.
[00:48:52] You need to be beyond reproach or people will start to point the finger at you and so yeah really like that kind of interplay between them as the other meat up.
[00:49:00] And the tea up as well for this Chris I think is that that oh no when Tiago has just gotten off the bus and they have that conversation and.
[00:49:13] Tiago just goes I hope it's not Mexicans and Mitch know goes and if it is and and you have to say we do our job and of course over the course of this episode as you say we see this these slips from Tiago where he doesn't do his job.
[00:49:32] So the second part of the slip and sorry before I even get to that one thing I will say I assume you guys will agree with me we just spoke about Mitch. I've known Nathan Lane for years for me he's always been a very much a character actor.
[00:49:48] You never introduced him to. We summer in the Hamptons but he's always been a very he's been a two degree a type cast actor.
[00:50:00] He's not known for very theatrical Broadway style or potentially and I'm not being druggery here a very camp over the top characters so bird cage etc. Or the his modern family character etc. This for me is like just really it's just this.
[00:50:23] Oh my God break out kind of character kind of acting for me that I did not know he was capable of and this is not meant as a slice this is just this is just showing the range that oh my God this actually is fantastic.
[00:50:41] It's just really good just that's all I had to get that out because I was just like every episode like oh my God this is even better he's just really good really good.
[00:50:50] So the second slip up that we discussed and what we're kind of will scoot along quite quickly on which is where we meet fly Rico squeeze. His bit with baby mama but definitely a female friend potentially girlfriend for fly Rico.
[00:51:10] Yeah I think they just say that she's very close. Yeah and then she goes well as mom's close she's just down the road which is a great blind. But this is where he starts over step is lying a bit as a police officer he's verging towards Riley territory.
[00:51:30] He basically threatens deportation with the child there. No but it's starting to kind of go towards that because he's coming to our territory he's going to separate the child and the mother and kind of throw her back to Mexico.
[00:51:44] It's very much to the target of Mitchin because it's like no no you're an honorable officer you believe in justice we don't we don't step over that line.
[00:51:55] We are police officers and this is where you start to see as I had to slip with a breaking of Tiago it's the fall because he's with the additional mounting pressures his beliefs start to crack. He's not shattered but he's cracking.
[00:52:11] Yeah and I think just having come from Sophia's where they get fly Rico's name and there's the suggestion that it could be Mateo with with the plaster the bandage around his thumb.
[00:52:25] He's gone to Raul presumably with that suggestion and you know that Mitchin was asked effectively to leave that that room whilst they discuss it further.
[00:52:35] All on the pretense that it was actually what does fly Rico live Raul could have answered that in seconds probably but also they needed to discuss what how they manage the family issue that's happened now that there's this suspicion.
[00:52:53] I feel like Raul may not have given up fly Rico though even though his brother is a police officer I think he wouldn't have given up unless convinced with the fact that Mateo may have joined them and may not be in trouble yeah possibly.
[00:53:04] And then with approaching Bernadette Romero like this and I thought it was really interesting because yeah as you say you know Lewis does kind of go hang on a second Tiago you know he is that shocked and then gives his little story about Frederick March the actor and who won the Academy Award for Dr. Jacqueline Hyde.
[00:53:26] Yeah Lewis is absolutely not sure hence that wonderful speech that we've opened the podcast with about Tiago's frame of mind here at all he knows there's something at him or he's.
[00:53:39] It's something for as probably as far as Lewis can determine to do with the fact he wasn't able to contact him for 24 hours he feels it's connected to the Riley case potentially little does he know probably that it's it's connected through.
[00:53:53] His family is actually and so I thought that was a nice little nod and I think just as well just that nice little reference back to the fact that you have Dr. Jacqueline the original Penny Jeffle there's no connection here whatsoever but it is just simply that and just that nice little literature reference I suppose
[00:54:14] Well hang on hang on because you're stealing me notes here John by a wide margin because this is massive for Penny dreadful fans the fact that they've mentioned a movie version of Dr. Jacqueline Mr. Hyde because Dr. Henry Jekyll was in season three of Penny dreadful.
[00:54:30] So this completely separates Penny dreadful city of angels from the original Penny dreadful right because absolutely there's now a fictional character called Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde that was made into a movie in the real world which is where I'm from.
[00:54:43] This Penny dreadful city of angels based so unless it had a tag on that movie saying based on a true story from the 1800s and then it's a completely different universe we will definitely this is first confirmation we will definitely not see.
[00:54:57] Dorian Gray walk past in the background of this show.
[00:55:01] So I don't know if that's no I want to say yes but what I very much as part of me is what I can see John Logan saying and turning around and going well there are plenty of cases in history where a real life person.
[00:55:21] Lived and had actions and these very fanciful novelizations of their actions and their speeches and stuff became a book and was translated into popular fiction later on.
[00:55:38] So I can see him saying something along those lines and going no this is still in the same world look at this big book that other people discuss.
[00:55:48] And I think it's interesting with a different writer on the show not John Logan that that's the line that made it through for this kind of the episode so I wonder if John Logan was sitting there going oh I'm gonna second after you read the script.
[00:56:00] Maybe I mean for me it's a nice touch back reference to the original and. For sure yeah yeah interesting since this is Chris's point let's get back to Chris.
[00:56:10] Yes the final bit which is this is annoyed me and it's the final what I think is I would say now I don't say nail on the coffin or straw the breaker camel back or any other terrible euthanism. It's the that he lets Mateo escape.
[00:56:29] So he chooses so we have this beautiful scene where they run up the stairs to catch the kid and then I was like okay like put him in cuffs or something no they still go upstairs.
[00:56:42] He was just a look at that yeah no use to them and they stopped him running up the stairs to warn them so they got there. They break down the door even though he was pretty sure that Mateo is gonna be there.
[00:56:54] Like cuz he knew he was still had that terrible look of shock on his face. I was like okay well you knew but good acting and then we get this great chase scene but he chooses to chase Mateo. Yeah versus the other the other character.
[00:57:13] Absolutely it was a versus fly Rico. It was like Rico he was chasing fly and Mateo yeah and then as the two of them separated he chose to have to be there.
[00:57:23] Yeah he should in tech well I don't know if he should up but in my head you go for the bigger the bigger fish he should have gone for fly Rico.
[00:57:33] But he doesn't and then he let Mateo go with sirens blaring in the background and I'm like this very much is the as a guy it's like.
[00:57:47] 101 cop you do not let the suspect go like he shot his brother to stop to keep the law to to enact justice and yet he breaks the law for family. And I'm like I'm this seems like the characters the foundations of the characters kind of shaking to do.
[00:58:10] I mean yeah yeah and I think you know he shot roll to protect his partner to protect everything kicking off like it was remember all did kill three or four other officers before shooting or did shoes at least a bunch of officers before shooting ass.
[00:58:25] His new partner and that's why he shot him basically. But he's freeing Mateo in a different way nobody's around nobody will find out that he specifically said go to my tail nobody will find out that he said run to Mateo.
[00:58:40] It's not like he's pushing him out the doors of the police department in LA in front of everybody else going you're free he can just say Mateo got away from.
[00:58:49] Or this unknown suspect got away from Lewis was behind him at the time the shop was slowed down so. Lewis didn't actually see him for as long as you think he did it's only about a millisecond that he saw this other kid in the background.
[00:59:03] And this was the only way he could be saved really is the reason why I think Tiago what had to be the one to catch Mateo you couldn't let Lewis go after him.
[00:59:13] If Lewis did actually catch him and he got arrested bad things were going to happen so and so yeah I think he chased him down to let him go effectively but.
[00:59:21] He wanted to know the answer he wanted to know did he commit the murder yeah I do I do think that this will lead to Rio I had it wrong where I thought it was our rule versus Tiago in the brother versus brother.
[00:59:35] I think we all thought yeah I think we're actually we were led to believe that but actually it's going to be Mateo versus Tiago brother.
[00:59:46] Well next week's episode is called how it is with brothers so definitely going to be learning more about the family very good in that episode as well and finding out you know what is the tension between all three of them really.
[00:59:57] Yeah I mean the main thing from for this for me was I just thought Daniel Zavato was absolutely fantastic and it was really powerful performance you can see him battling between him as a detective and also then as the older brother of Mateo.
[01:00:18] But I think that's it he lets him run and but he learns the truth and I suspect that you know that word with Raul as well given the suspicion and could have been you can't arrest him you know it would destroy Maria whatever it may be and I think yeah.
[01:00:39] He made the right choice to run after Flirico and Mateo in that moment because he's in the same room whilst there's no direct evidence then that he did the killing he's obviously a huge person of interest and and the suspicion is falling on him you know heavily and he's one in four option for any prosecutor so but I yeah.
[01:01:09] I thought I was excellent here and I just think it's great for implications moving forward with his family but in his job as a detective you know he himself is put himself in a really difficult situation here which I'm looking forward to seeing how that plays out.
[01:01:27] And interestingly I suppose that's kind of how we close at this point I suppose really is that they do have a member of Flirico's gang in custody now and it's Diego the fourth member of the group yeah his face as Rio.
[01:01:41] Close as the door is really pricey she leaves him behind screaming after Rio to let him to let him out but I suppose you know we as the audience know it's know that it's Mateo and then we know that he's had this conversation with his brother and we know that he's taken credit for it.
[01:01:57] But right now Diego is a very likely suspect the chief of police seems to be reasonably happy with these types of cases being fulfilled with you know a good enough suspect in here and Diego was the kid that was being beaten up by Riley in the in the chair in previous episode you know as as.
[01:02:17] Diego walked into the department and threatened to kill Riley basically so.
[01:02:22] This is someone that they could pin the murderer of Raleigh on and just walk away and all of this stuff goes away you know Mateo gets away Flirico gets away you know he can easily just say he's the one that did the killing blow and Diego is the one that has to take the pain because he did he was involved as well he was there and he did.
[01:02:40] His Ray Riley with a with some quite considerable blows as well so and so yeah so we this is how we basically end off the episode is that while Mateo is free and while Diego is telling him to run they do have somebody in custody so.
[01:02:54] Yeah yeah we have talked about almost everything in the episode but I want to just highlight one little element that we didn't specifically highlight because it's really interesting to me.
[01:03:05] It's quite specific yet definitely but I think in this show where the supernatural seems to be hidden in the background a little bit more than it would have been when you're talking about.
[01:03:15] The universal monsters as a lot of the original Penny Dreadful was you know very well known monsters and very well known creatures from the past and history and that kind of stuff.
[01:03:25] I think Rio talking to Mateo when she's undressing him and getting him ready for his Zutsu effectively I think her actual speech Tim giving the fictional supernatural evolution of the Petucos is just fascinating because she's effectively.
[01:03:41] Bringing the Petucos back like as if they are the warriors of an ancient God and she's saying that they are the sons and daughters of the Aztec God that was.
[01:03:51] Unconquerable for a thousand years and gave many blood sacrifices to keep in that place of power his followers would give blood sacrifices so effectively create it's kind of equating what Mateo did by killing Riley as a blood sacrifice to keep the Petucos alive.
[01:04:07] So I love how she's kind of combining all of this information together and effectively saying that they have they've risen from the ashes of the Aztec past.
[01:04:19] Combining that with the arrival of the conquistadors from Europe and their own religion similar to because we talked about an episode one of this show similar to the American Gods idea where.
[01:04:28] Multiple gods coming together forming different and the same versions with just slightly different names effect is how they merged a lot of religions together when Christianity came across from Europe into.
[01:04:39] Various different countries they would take some of their deities and kind of twist and slightly and rename them as similar to their own deities within the Christian religion so.
[01:04:48] So I loved this kind of idea that effectively Rio is and we know she's demon Rio is talking to Mateo almost as Magda saying.
[01:04:57] This is how our religion the Machuca religion came to be and you need to get rid of your Christian ways this unreal God that you have she pulls the cross office office chest or the the medal that's on his chest she pulls that off his chest.
[01:05:11] Telling him to give up on that God and go for her God and their God so stuff that was a really interesting use of that of those historical religious practices and combination of all of them because it I think it's probably the closest we've gotten to Magda having a conversation with a human.
[01:05:28] Yeah, in the show. I do wonder if Magda is that God. Mm hmm. Yeah, that's where and she's basically getting a disciple. She's like give up worshiping this Christ God figure and worship me.
[01:05:42] Pretty much is what she's saying she will get she needs a priest if you will. Yeah, like they have given her the blood sacrifice. Bete did give her a blood sacrifice so now it is now no no you are what you were one of my priests.
[01:05:58] Now you are with me. Yeah, potentially here. And that's why that's just why I thought it was so interesting given it's a couple lines of dialogue but she she's very specific about the historical details that she's giving and stuff just you'll get your suit.
[01:06:12] Susan will go out dancing every Saturday night and we'll make sure that nobody takes over the Mexicans there and or anybody in the city. is this has stemmed back for millennia in the history of the Aztecs, the history of the Mexicans.
[01:06:27] We are now bringing it to America and we are this religion. We're not just a dance group that our Christians dance in every Saturday night up in the Crimson Cat.
[01:06:39] So I thought it was quite interesting and it's interesting that you've also pointed that out Chris because it was something that I was saying to John when we watched this episode.
[01:06:45] There's something odd about Molly as well. Molly hasn't mentioned Christ over the course of these five episodes. She's mentioned God. She's mentioned higher powers. And in this episode, interestingly, just the wording of it, she says her mother introduced her to a powerful God.
[01:07:05] And I do wonder if that God will be named as Santa Marta or a Christian version of Santa Marta in the future, or something like that. Or maybe not even a Christian version. You don't need to actually be Christian to be honest.
[01:07:19] It's one of those ones where she's been choosing the words very carefully that this deity that she worships may not necessarily be the Christian God. So I think it might be Magda. Maybe.
[01:07:32] Because essentially we know the mother's bad and potentially the mother introduced her to Molly to this God of Magda, which is...
[01:07:44] And that is the connection. That is that point because that's the bit I was trying to figure because I'm like that whole side of it is yet is Godless in the meddling aspect.
[01:07:55] And I was going to bring up this. I was flirting with the idea that potentially the bodyguard was Magda in another... Like it was Frank all grown up, if you will. But I don't think that's 100% because that's not... The bodyguard isn't whispering.
[01:08:13] If anything, the mother is whispering to the bodyguard. So I was like, potentially when Molly was behind the curtain in her state and stuff, she's just talking to Magda. Magda can be veiled to human senses. So maybe she's just there beside her. Maybe. Yeah, maybe that's an option.
[01:08:36] And the reason why I was thinking Santa Marta was possibly because I think twice now she's talked to Thiago once about the actual marks that she sees in the skin in this episode. And instantly said that's a protection to him.
[01:08:50] And previously the first time they met back earlier on this season, she said to him about Santa Marta, he said, people tell me I saw her when I was a child. And she says maybe you did. Doesn't seem to have any kind of judgment.
[01:09:02] Doesn't seem to have any kind of... Well, no, those deities don't exist. I'm a Christian. I believe in these deities. Your deities don't exist kind of conversation. It's very respectful of the possibility that there are other deities.
[01:09:14] And that's why I'm wondering whether she does actually worship another deity like Santa Marta. And that would also lead to a point where we will have Santa Marta versus Magda through the humans that they're speaking through or talking with towards the end of the season. There you go.
[01:09:30] That's another theory. It's a good theory. And you know me. I like my theories. Yeah, absolutely. There you go. That's it for my big moment from the episode because I think we've covered almost everything else.
[01:09:42] The only other couple of little bits that we haven't talked about are Dottie meeting up with Brian Koenig in the episode. And perhaps the end of Dottie because we do see she is now being followed. Yeah.
[01:09:56] I think for me, the one big gem from this episode that we have to make reference to is, for me, is Louis and meeting Marie. There you go. It's just a really priceless scene between I think two real big heavyweights here.
[01:10:15] I love the fact he goes in and says, you're not actually Jewish, are you? You know, there's some really good fun here between the two and almost him. You know, it was interesting when she says, you know, you're the one I should be thanking.
[01:10:29] You have the guts to pick a Chicano to be your partner. And we know from the first or second episode where he said, I just didn't have a choice. Although he, you know, where does the truth lie?
[01:10:42] And maybe that Maria has some insight through her through praying to Santa Marta. But that was just a fabulous moment between the two where she goes through all the different colors, different Santa Marta's for the different reasons why you pray to that particular one.
[01:11:01] And another fact, you've got that scary ass central Santa Marta and Lewis is like, look at her teeth. And she goes, yes, she's beautiful, isn't she? And he's like, well, that's one way of saying it.
[01:11:15] Like, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't call like the skull beautiful in that sense. But it was just, it was just really nice. And I want to see more of Maria for sure. I think, you know, to get presumably a bit more Santa Marta here,
[01:11:35] it's going to say Santa Maria then. But this is this this was a great little scene between these two actors here. I thought it was a really nice moment between the two. I definitely want to see more of Maria Vega. She's such an interesting character.
[01:11:54] And as I mentioned earlier on in the season, seems massively powerful. Like she describes her prayer to Santa Marta as Santa Marta is really powerful. Ask what you want and you get it.
[01:12:05] Well, there's not very many days that anybody worships that can get you exactly what you want if you just pray for it. But it's happened twice now for Maria. She's just asked Santa Maria for whatever it is. And in she arrives.
[01:12:18] Is Maria Vega the actual embodiment of Santa Marta? Another one. Is she another embodiment of her? Is she helping out Maria Vega specifically because she's a really powerful bruja, which or is she? Is there some other connection there? Maybe. But I want to see more of her.
[01:12:38] She's a great actress too. And also just that she does give Lewis there a black Santa Marta for protection. So, you know, what can it hurt? Right. But I suspect Lewis may need to call on Santa Marta's protection moving forward.
[01:12:55] That little black idol will 100% come back to play. Definitely. Because it was so prominent in the following scene of being on the hood of the car. I'm like, all right, all right. He's going to end up putting it in his pocket and it will deflect a bullet.
[01:13:12] Obviously, I know that's that won't happen because that's obviously too on the nose. Or something along those lines will. Something like that. I think something like that. Yeah, I think you're about right, Chris. Anything else we haven't talked about for the episode? Nothing for me.
[01:13:25] I think we covered most of it and like the other remaining bits probably I don't want to bring up because like always I bring it up and literally in the next episode it's completely bashed in.
[01:13:35] So I'm like, I'm waiting to see if one or two things pay off next episode like exactly what has happened previously. So yeah, yeah. So don't don't spoil your your projections from what might happen. Anything for yourself? Interesting to see Adelaide and Randolph still following Molly.
[01:13:53] Their conversation was just so mysterious that I couldn't work out anything of what they were talking about. I couldn't work out whether Adelaide was sending Randolph off to kill Tiago, which is how I expected the conversation to go.
[01:14:07] Is he going to do the same thing that they did with the Haslitz? Is there something else going on there but just so obscure as a conversation that I had no idea what exactly was happening between the two of them.
[01:14:19] We just know she's pretty evil and Randolph constantly follows Molly and they absolutely know about Tiago and Molly being together. Yeah, I mean whatever it is, as Miss Adelaide said, we know how this is going to end, don't we, Randolph?
[01:14:35] Now whether that's because of an act that they do or plan or it's something to do with Molly, given that we're a little unsure of whether possibly she's channeling Santa Marta or Magda, that day I see, we just don't know.
[01:14:51] So I think that's still kind of really intriguing, you know, what is Molly's shtick here? The other thing is I did feel that Randolph perfectly played just that kind of great Hulk kind of character that sort of obeys the master.
[01:15:13] It did remind me of the supermarket attendance from Hopfuzz. So I was expecting him to kind of say, Yarp as he goes off to do his master's bidding, so to speak. Or maybe the original Frankenstein's monster from the old movies in the 1950s.
[01:15:34] I was going to go Salomon Grunty. Yeah, absolutely. Salomon Grunty born on a Monday. Again, fictional but based on historical or not historical but narrative based kind of history. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Hopfuzz. Yeah, that's better. Yarp.
[01:15:51] I instantly thought of the giant from Twin Peaks when I saw him. A couple of the quick notes for the episode before we go on to some feedback. One from a previous episode that I only learned about this week, which I thought was fascinating.
[01:16:07] We just didn't didn't comment on it all. Do you remember when Lewis Michener leaves the bodies of his friends in the morgue and goes up the stairs and rips his lapel off while crying effectively while mourning the loss of his friends?
[01:16:21] That's actually a Hebrew act known as Kriya. Yeah, effectively. It's a striking expression of grief at the loss of a loved one. I just had never heard of it before. So we just didn't realize how realistic and accurate I suppose that moment is.
[01:16:36] He's specifically showing his grief in this manner. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Definitely had that connection with the opening scene of this episode as Magda lures her blood bag as you are calling this this man when she walks into the bar lures this guy towards her.
[01:16:58] Definitely felt like the character Billy Piper played in Pelly Dreadful. Lily where she went to the bar, picked up a guy, took him home and killed him. Felt exactly like a beast directly back from from the original Penny Dreadful there. Yeah, the resemblance of that was striking.
[01:17:11] Yeah, but for sure. I think otherwise the only notes from my self was just that on those other colours of Santa Marta we had gold for wealth, white for purity of heart, red for love, green for justice and black
[01:17:30] for protection against kind of evil spirits or just evil in general. I did love the little touch with Maria saying that none of her children believe in Santa Marta except for Ralph. Of course Ralph believes in Santa Marta. He is Santa Marta.
[01:17:46] He was brought back by her zombie brother. Zombie bros. So I do like that she does calls out the Ralph does believe in Santa Marta. Yeah, someone's got to. So gentlemen, I think with that let's move on to our final thoughts for this episode.
[01:18:07] Derek, what did you think? Of Penny Dreadful City of Angels Episode 5 Children of the Wild Sun? A little when we get to the halfway point of the season and all I can say about an episode
[01:18:20] is it's even better than last week which I loved because that means that the show is doing something right. Every episode has been better and better. Every character has been more and more developed and some fantastic things happened in this episode.
[01:18:32] I thought this was excellent just right up there exactly where I wanted to be. Lots of interesting intriguing things going on with all the characters and yet this fall for Diego or this character of Diego, you know, you can understand behind all of this
[01:18:48] this is someone that's worked every day of his life to get into the position where he is the first ever Chicano LAPD detective in this position. And now everything's falling apart around him and he's struggling to hold on, struggling
[01:19:02] to hold on to his integrity and his honesty because of everything that's going on in the city and I think it's a really interesting story for this season. So brilliant performances, really interesting stuff going on. Yeah, loving this episode looking forward to the rest of the season. Excellent.
[01:19:18] Jonnors, what did you think of Episode 5? Absolutely. I love this. For me it's four and a half Haymarket anarchists out of five little one for Dottie there. Yeah, I think for me when I first watched it, I came at it purely from that that gem of a scene
[01:19:40] between Lewis and Amarillo to be honest. And I really liked these two wise beings sort of just sharing their wisdom, their thoughts and so on around Tiago. But I think Tiago was great having him much more central in this episode really getting our teeth
[01:20:02] into Tiago and what he was doing and just how he is proving himself to be human as and slipping as you said, Chris. I loved again that Penny Dreadful provides a look into how people are behaving and that through the eyes of love
[01:20:22] or sex and I think this was really, really good to see. I think the speech by Rio to Matteo is massively powerful to him. You know, he is no regrets Matteo after she has that speech delivers it to him for him and then beds him effectively
[01:20:46] to really hammer it home. But again Tiago learning the truth about his younger brother and making the decision to let him run. Really great stuff all around here. So looking forward to see how the capture of Diego pans out for next week's episode. Absolutely a really good episode.
[01:21:10] Chris, what do you think that role? I can't say much more outside of what you gents have already said. I'm starting to eat the crow in that I have said over time that like I was like, yeah, it's part of this is dragging for me.
[01:21:25] I made a joke before we started recording. I was like, yeah, this episode had nothing. It's going to be an easy one. We'll knock it out in like 40 minutes. Although nothing significant if like it. I'll give you the perfect example.
[01:21:40] Last night I watched a Netflix film called extraction, which is a two hours of nonstop abs action fight car scenes. Just go, go, go. It's just assaulting the senses. The story is there, but it's not really what you're going to that film for.
[01:22:04] And we're going to Penny Jettville for the story. And I feel that I part of me was like, okay, I need a bit more one bomb kind of action. But I felt it just needed a bit more.
[01:22:18] What I'm finding is the actual slow burns are paying off as the deeper you get into the season. So my millennial instant gratification sometimes just needs to take a backseat and just understand that a good writer like John Logan and,
[01:22:39] in this case, Jose Riviera, just they know what they're doing. They're taking me on a journey and I need to respect that. So yeah, I can't say much more. I just want, I want to see where it goes then. And I think that's kind of the core.
[01:22:56] But I've had enough discussion of rape. That's okay with everyone. Just, well, we'll do a top that. We're good for now. It's just hard to watch and listen to. There we are. Those are our thoughts on episode five, Children of the Royal Son.
[01:23:13] But gentlemen, I think it's time we move on to some feedback. I don't know why I sound like a radio jockey. Not even a good jockey, a shock jock. It's the intention always when you're sitting in front of a microphone, Chris, that's all.
[01:23:27] Yes, I would have penny for your thoughts. Feedback section for our petty dreadful podcast. Quick apology to begin with for Jared Wilkins who did send in this feedback last Monday. We have recorded our podcast, but I normally am able to throw in our feedback.
[01:23:41] If we get it in a little bit later, normally able to throw it in after we've recorded the episode. But I had a few technical issues last week, which meant I couldn't record. I could only edit the podcast. So what Jared said was on episode four last week.
[01:23:53] He says concerning where we stand at the end of this episode, I think that Tiago has to decide whether or not he wants to arrest Molly for the Hazlet Murders and his own brother Mateo for Raleigh's murder.
[01:24:03] It seems that what will likely happen and what suits his best interest is that he will find a way to pin all of these murders on Fly Rico as he's the leader of the Pachuco's.
[01:24:11] So he looks good for all of these murders and it might help him to better pull his baby brother Mateo out of the Pachuco's hang if they're leaderless. It's not what I want to happen, but I'm also trying to fill in the holes.
[01:24:21] Nathan Lane, an interview with Gull Derby, let's slip that on episode six, Detective Michener and Tiago have done something regrettable and he tells Tiago that in these times there are no clean deeds. There's only dirty deeds and less dirty deeds.
[01:24:34] That could easily mean pinning the Hazlet Murders on someone less deserving. So interestingly, he mentions this interview with Nathan Lane saying that they've done something despicable in episode six. I think they've done this is the despicable thing, right?
[01:24:46] This is freeing of Mateo as kind of against the rules of police officers. So I don't think it's any spoiler there. No, but wait and see. Yeah, thanks, Jarrett, for that. Yeah, I think it's all going to get really, really muddy for Nathan Lane and for Tiago.
[01:25:02] Even Nathan Lane has his little side project with the Nazis and with, obviously, Brian Koenig as we saw in episode five where he's asked Dossy to keep up the observation of him. But Tiago, yeah, I think what with the powerful presence of his mom of Raoul
[01:25:29] and possibly his own feelings then, yeah, it sounds like it's going to get messy for him in particular. I like the suggestion as well that what he wants to do, whether he wants to arrest Molly for the Hazlet Murders or not
[01:25:49] or whether he's going to pin it on Flirico and, you know, it comes back to Chris's point about Tiago's fall in a sense that he is, he had such pure aspirations, you know, when when being pushed by Van Der Hoff about concluding it,
[01:26:10] he goes, well, you want us to solve it. Him and Lewis both saying, well, we're going to investigate it and solve it, not just pluck a Mexican name out of the air and pin it on them.
[01:26:21] And yeah, if that's what they do in in episode six potentially with Diego for both the murder of Officer Riley, but potentially then for the Hazlets, you know, two birds with one stone, easy win is concluded on all fronts, then it's going to be something tragic for sure.
[01:26:45] Exactly. The road to hell is paved with good intentions as I say. Dirty deeds. Yeah, I do think that's where they're going. I think there's dirty deeds and less dirty deeds.
[01:26:55] And in this case, it's they need to, they need to shut it down as the captain wants on requests. Absolutely. Thanks so much again, Jared for that. Sorry that we didn't get it in the last episode. Yes, thank you so much.
[01:27:11] We also received an email from our roving reporter in the field in LA. Good old Jim Pekanisco. He had this to say gentlemen, wow, episode four was outstanding and traumatic.
[01:27:26] I have no civic location info to share this week other than to say Pasadena is now a scarier place to live. Oh, what? Like if you're a roving reporter, Jim, come on, you need location. You're roving in, in location. That's why we have you.
[01:27:41] Anyway, Jim went on to say the Florence Moore appearance was truly frightening. But what happened to Josephine it was even more difficult to watch credit the great actors just so devastating and their revenge scenes were horrifically brutal.
[01:27:56] Made me consider how neat and clean so many of these types of scenes are typically shot. Nice clean throat slit. I can recall three or four of them in Game of Thrones, not on Penny Dredgeville just a realistic mess. Impactful. Theory on where this is headed.
[01:28:12] Molly equals Magda, Josephine equals Center Worthy or vice versa. You guys are great. Jim Pasadena, California. We should start signing that off as Jim our roving reporter in the field. Pasadena, California. Yes, thank you so much.
[01:28:29] Might have to send him some money if he's going to be employed by TV podcast. But then again, none of us get paid for it. So exactly. This is all about the love. Love in this case of Penny Dredgeville. Thanks, Jim, for that.
[01:28:40] I like the idea that Josephine could be Santa Muerta as well. I know Chris had mentioned about Molly being Magda rather than Santa Muerta. But yeah, then is it just I just kind of thought that Molly was kind of the Holy Spirit.
[01:29:00] She was the, you know, the strict Christian form of I suppose Santa Muerta or the Holy Spirit and in Christianity or Holy. I don't even know myself.
[01:29:15] It's been such a long time since I went to Sunday school, but I really like, yeah, I like this idea because that would certainly play nicely with the fact that she's from the Vega family with the influence and presence of her of her mom.
[01:29:32] And certainly Molly is that darker, darker edge than that possibly she has here. And so yeah, I like that theory. It's a really interesting theory. Thanks so much again for the feedback, Jim. Yes, thank you again. Thanks, Jim.
[01:29:49] We're also able to publish your dulcet tones on our podcast.
[01:29:54] And if you want to hear your voice on the podcast, you can record a clip of yourself on your phone and email it to us or you can go to our website, tvpodcastindustries.com and record up to 90 seconds of your thoughts about that week's episode.
[01:30:07] If you want to email it, you can email it to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. But we of course have our returning voicemailer Steve Brown from Panels to Pixels podcast. If you have a chance, check it out. It is a great listen.
[01:30:24] But Steve had this to say about Penny Dretful. Yeah, he liked this one. He sent in two voicemails. I'll play the both of them back to back. Good morning, TV podcast industries. This is Steve and gosh, this episode was so good.
[01:30:36] I'm about to watch it again, but I wanted to throw a couple of thoughts in before I do.
[01:30:41] First, Derek, you finally get to say not written by John Logan and I loved seeing the change from Magda to Elsa there in the dance club and we don't see what happens with that with that gentleman. I don't think I'm about to watch it again.
[01:31:01] So I'll find out, but just wanted to send those a couple initial thoughts in before I watch it for a second time. Okay, talk to you in a bit. So they're starting to make us question Molly's maybe intentions.
[01:31:16] Maybe she just manipulative because she tells two different versions of that story. One to Tiago and then to his different one to his sister and the.
[01:31:28] I'm starting to see is Magda supposed to represent like kind of the devil to where she's like she's corrupting individuals as well as these bigger groups and what is the end game with Peter Kraft.
[01:31:45] I'm a interest to see where what connections he has besides the bund that we might you might see here. So I'm curious. I've got to finish the second watch, but I wanted to get all this sent in this morning before before things got busy. Okay, love the podcast.
[01:32:06] Thank you so much for the shout out to my podcast and can't wait to hear what you guys thought of this one. Talk to you later. Thank you so much, Steve. That was not planned.
[01:32:19] I had not heard your podcast, your voicemail before I gave that a shout out again. So nice. You're welcome. Absolutely. I will we give Steve second voicemail play and then we'll talk about his thoughts. Yeah, yes.
[01:32:35] Hey guys, sorry to send a second voicemail, but I'm in the middle of watching the second time and two things that occurred me that I thought was really, really cool. I wanted to share very quickly.
[01:32:44] First off, when Tiago says to Michener that he didn't cause the death of Jimmy Riley, that's definitely a reference to the fact that Michener kind of caused the death of that man in the last episode that the mobster killed.
[01:33:01] And then when little Frank says isn't that cheating and his dad kind of gives a double take about the whole cheating thing. Okay, talk to you later. This is it. Last one. You can send as many as you like Steve.
[01:33:14] Really like your voicemail overall, but yeah, I definitely got that one with the kids when they said dad isn't that cheating to Peter Kraft and he was like, I got a second. What do they mean by that? Like that.
[01:33:26] Yeah, interesting with Lewis referencing the fact that he calls the death of someone in the previous episode. But I don't know. Lewis, Mr. Did he cause the death of the guy at the end of last episode?
[01:33:39] He caused the death of his two friends by making them follow the Nazis up into the mountains and they got killed by the Nazis. They were following us, I suppose. So maybe he's maybe that's the deaths that he's regretting. It could be additionally as well.
[01:33:53] I think that we may find out that there has been other Nazi hunters who have lost their lives so far. But again, we're at the halfway mark. I think this is the beginning where we start to find the dirty deeds of every definitely. Yeah, definitely.
[01:34:10] Thanks Steve for that. Yeah, I think the Tom and Trevor with the game of sorry and cheating. I think it was that was a really kind of nice little subtle touch to that. And yes, the guy Mr. Benson who was taken home by Elsie certainly did die.
[01:34:33] Yes, fake Mr. Benson. Yes, fake Mr. Benson. Yeah, he is gone. And Mike does the devil. I think yeah, I think Mike does a demon. So we'll see definitely a representation of that.
[01:34:46] But what was my most interesting point of the episode I think was was a Rio's version trying to tempt Matteo away from his Christianity to follow some ancient gods. Just thought that was an interesting little touch in this show as well. So some great points.
[01:35:01] Thanks for watching Steve. Hopefully we'll hear from you again for next week's episode. Our last thing to do in this episode as always is a lot of people's favorite part of this episode are Penny Dreadful Pub Quiz. Yes, fellow dreadfuls. It is the dreadful pub quiz.
[01:35:18] And remember once you've had a 10 cent dance grab a bottle of wine head home for a good old Chinese dinner for this week's pub quiz. Yes.
[01:35:30] The question for episode five of Penny Dreadful is what Swash Buckling Action Movie was advertised when Tiago and Lewis went to visit Officer James Riley's Sonoratown Honey Sophia? So I'll just repeat that.
[01:35:46] What Swash Buckling Action Movie was advertised when Tiago and Lewis went to visit Officer James Riley's Sonoratown Honey Sophia? Yes. But you can't say that at the time first. No, I can't. That is one mouthful of a question for sure.
[01:36:06] But please send in your answer to feedback at TVpodcastindustries.com. You can just put the episode number into the title and just provides the answer if you want to join us.
[01:36:24] Or you can send them all into us in one go for our last podcast of the Penny Dreadful City of Angels run that we do. So keep your answers coming in and you'll be in with a chance to win some goodies for sure. Some dreadful goodies.
[01:36:43] Some dreadful goodies. Yes. That should be our episode 501. It should be our Penny Dreadful Recap so we can keep the episode 500 separate from the individual show so we can have 501. It will be just about Penny Dreadful and our wrap up on that on City of Angels. Yes.
[01:37:00] Actually, thanks so much for that, John. Do you want to give that question one more time really? Or I do not want to give it again. Yes. I'll repeat that question one more time.
[01:37:08] That was the swashbuckling action movie that was advertised when Tiago and Lewis went to visit Officer James Riley's Sonoritan honey, Sophia. Excellent.
[01:37:20] If you want to catch all the questions that we've given for the Penny Dreadful Pub Quiz so far you can pop over to our website, tvpodcastindustries.com.
[01:37:27] There's a page up there that has all the questions detailed out there so in case you happen to miss one in our coverage so far. Check them there or just listen back to all the podcast and towards the end we give out the questions. Just do that.
[01:37:39] Just do that. Give us the download. Absolutely. You know you want it. Thanks so much once again for joining us. Thanks to everybody that's rated us overnight, James. Thanks to everybody that's been sending their feedback, sending their thoughts and supporting us over on Patreon.
[01:37:50] We'll be back next week with our discussion of Penny Dreadful City of Angels Episode 6, How It Is With Brothers. Badly. I've got four brothers. I've got guys or brothers. It's always fighting, always punching. Nuggets by punching. Like just yeah it goes badly.
[01:38:11] Yes thank you so much Dreadful listeners and we will be back as Derek says very soon. Yeah thanks so much fellow Dreadfuls. We'll be back with you very very soon. Remember keep watching, keep listening and keep praying. Bye. Bye. Bye.