[00:00:00] This is the Dreadful Podcast from TV Podcast Industries and we're watching Penny Dreadful City of Angels Episode 4, Josefina and the Holy Spirit. You know Elsa My husband your friend Dr. Kraft He's not who he pretends to be dear Ask him about Esum Ask about his family
[00:00:27] between us girls Before you start measuring the drapes find out who he really is You know just between us girls My dear I will not let you turn me into anything so binal as their rejected wife
[00:01:14] Welcome back fellow penny faithful. This is TV podcast industries and we're talking about Penny Dreadful City of Angels Episode 4 Yes, Athena and the Holy Spirit. I'm one of your hosts Derek Heidi Hi, do hi da fellow dreadfuls and dreaders
[00:01:28] Welcome. Yes. I am one of your other hosts John and rounding out the dry vector not the true trifecta of the dry factor No, I am Chris It still hasn't stopped before episodes in and we still haven't gotten Chris to stop his impersonations of a German accent
[00:01:44] nine nine well We are certainly going to have the alignment of the stars and the broken crystal and as Chris does a rendition of the German beer Hall song in both his best German accent along with his best singing So it will be dreadful It will
[00:02:12] Fit with the dreadful podcast really really nicely and fellow penny faithful if you don't hear Chris's version It's because I probably edited it out Yes, thank you so much. I am probably not going to be doing it
[00:02:29] I would love to but I'm afraid all the crystal where in every house of our listeners would break Not because of the vocal chords and the sound waves the frequency that I sing out No, just you would be basically breaking it to try and gouge out your ears
[00:02:46] Ooh gruesome gruesome Well, welcome back everybody if you haven't subscribed to the podcast again Just imagine that you can subscribe over on TV podcast industries calm It has tried to our feed for all of our podcasts and all the things we've been covering
[00:03:00] One thing to mention we know that not all of our listeners are watching penny dreadful city of angels at the moment So we have gone into our patreon group And we have said that we are gonna cover a movie over there and go back to the movies
[00:03:11] We were supposed to be going to watch Marvel's black widow this month And unfortunately obviously it has been pushed back so we are gonna do a movie We gave some options to our patrons. We said we cover one of four films and gave them the choice
[00:03:22] We had the options of Joker Wonder Woman Captain America with your soldier or Iron Man 2 Iron Man 2. No, I was trying to think of ones that had black widow in them
[00:03:32] And that's her first introduction as a Marvel universe. I thought that was it you are right with your reaction though We got zero votes for for Iron Man 2 so won't be covering that It's so cheesily good Justin hammer Whiplash the formula one section in Monica come on
[00:03:50] It had some classic moments I think it paled in Comparison in most other MCU movies because it was setting up other films rather than being a great film in itself at the time But I think I've come back on it probably will be quite good
[00:04:02] Yeah, maybe I think controversially. I am a big Iron Man 3. Oh, that's much better film definitely Oh, yeah, Shane black kiss kiss bun bang all the way down to Iron Man But yeah, no, I like our man. I know I know I know it's not controversial
[00:04:20] It's still not like Thor the Dark World. No, but it's good. It's up there It's hard DJ, but we will get there at some stage But yes on the request of our patrons. We're not going to be covering that
[00:04:33] So it's no one else what exactly it did come out as a joint a joint vote though so the two films that our patrons have chosen for us to do our Captain America Winter Soldier and
[00:04:46] Wonder Woman and what we're gonna do is we're gonna do Captain America Winter Soldier first We're gonna release that within the next month over on our patreon for our patients and go over there to patreon.com
[00:04:55] TV podcast industries contribute any amount of the good access to that podcast and then we're gonna do the Wonder Woman review or look back before Wonder Woman gets released the second Wonder Woman movie. Yes Wonder Woman 1984 Yes, I saw a few bits and bobs there
[00:05:10] I don't know why we didn't do Wonder Woman to begin with because it was film I came out really buzzing about really enjoyed it same with the Joker which was one of the other films and So yes, well, we've got a few little things
[00:05:23] Obviously with the relatively blank Marvel Slate at the moment for TV That we will sort of go and do some of those movies that we haven't been able to or we didn't get round to doing at the time Absolutely. Yes, and of course obviously
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[00:06:08] Do you have any thoughts or any requests for things that we may cover in the future at least movies anyway? We have a few TV shows that will be covering definitely, but we'll not movies
[00:06:16] Sure, why not pop us in an email? Yeah, it's not like we're doing anything else Yeah, absolutely and of course with that email feedback at TV podcast industries calm Don't forget about our dreadful pub quiz and the pub quiz questions at the end of each episode of
[00:06:33] Penny dreadful city of angels We take a trip to the Crimson cat on many a time and dare I say it the winking crimson cat It winked in this episode. She was quite nice
[00:06:45] I had to do a double take but we do go to the Crimson cat for our pub quiz question To ask a question about that episode So you can send in your answers each week or altogether in one batch at the end of the series
[00:06:59] To the feedback at TV podcast industries calm and of course one lucky Dreadful listener will get some penny dreadful goodies and while I'm on that note the penny dreadful city of angels store is Now open on showtime.com forward slash store. Yes, so we will be
[00:07:20] trawling that to see what Drinking goodies we will pick out for the lucky winner of the dreadful pub quiz Dare I say it could be a life-size version of a very drunk Linda Kraft for example
[00:07:37] Who knows she was certainly enjoying the drinks to get her through her son's birthday party for sure Yeah, definitely one. I went down to the store actually during the week this week just to check it out and make sure
[00:07:48] And yes, they are totally playing up to the type of stuff We would normally give away in our goodie bags for for art our pub quiz and there's some Crimson cat pint glasses. There's a hip flask on there the shot glasses
[00:08:01] There's a wine glasses on there, you know loads of stuff drink related So it's pretty much aimed directly at us. Maybe they were listening Maybe just maybe Let's get into the episode itself guys ready go guys. Yeah This episode was directed once again by Sergio Mimica
[00:08:20] Cuz I directed episode three and written by John Logan For this episode John do you want to tell us what they gave us with the big summary for this episode sure Detective Tiago Vega scours sister Molly's Beach House for clues leading to some disquieting revelations Meanwhile, councilwoman Beck
[00:08:38] Proposes an alternate route for the arioseco motoi Infuriating her rival councilman Townsend and leading him back to his unchecked appetites Meanwhile Peter Kraft invites Elsa and her pseudo son Frank to a party at his home inflaming the suspicions of his wife Linda and
[00:08:59] Disquieting even further her son Tom Detective Lewis Michener asks the gangster Benny Berman to help battle the growing Nazi menace in LA Meanwhile after Josefina Vega has a harrowing encounter with officer Riley Matthew seeks retribution with his new Pachuko friends as Josefina Pursues spiritual enlightenment with sister Molly
[00:09:24] Here's an episode episode four of this show where so much is ramping up So much is going on that. I don't know whether they're gonna get it all covered in our podcast guys No, it was definitely they're starting to throw everything bar the kitchen sink in here
[00:09:38] But wait and see We'll do our best to cover it up. Absolutely John. Do you want to take us off with your big moment for the episode? I will yes, and it is the unholy trinity
[00:09:50] Bad Batman bad Superman and bad wonder no not in this case or should I say the unholy spirits of Josefina officer Riley and Matthew Yes, this is something that is Just Massive it's really huge for for this episode because it's been building for so long
[00:10:13] You know, we've had the repulsion of officer Riley Really just the inherent bias, you know and and racism that he has He really is someone that doesn't Sort of fit comfortably as you watch Oh, and then you have it as a fina who has been relatively quiet
[00:10:36] You know, she's there in in very much Almost as a back character so far with the Vega brothers and of course with the strength and presence of her mom Maria and Matty oh is someone who has been
[00:10:53] Building this he is like a pressure cooker ready to explode and it really comes to a head here and leads to just so many and disturbing situations and Bloody visceral Murder here, which is it just really comes to a great climax. I think in this episode
[00:11:20] And you know, we have Riley continuing his his persecution of the Mexicans and This really comes to a head as he puts Matthew and Yosifina into his at his crosshairs and Not only is he sort of violent towards Matthew?
[00:11:39] But then, you know pulls that that I suppose in some ways It is a little bit of a trope but that and I'm gonna search for a concealed weapon On Yosifina and but effectively here sexually harasses her and violates her
[00:11:56] Whilst her brother is watching on and in turn this feeling of helplessness then from Matthew really just Sinks further and he effectively does boil over and at the at the Vega family dinner Where they were, you know, both him and Josephina were getting groceries to bring back
[00:12:19] And you know unknown to Both Maria Tiago and Raul, they don't know any of this. You know, so Fina is You will keep this quiet. So it's not only that Matthew is wants to explode in terms of his frustration
[00:12:41] And this pent up anger that has been building slowly But so too he's now he's forced back into himself because of how Yosifina wants to handle this in a very different way and It's a tough scene to watch it really is Riley is just a bar and
[00:12:59] And how he has been in the show if you if you didn't know he's one of the villains of the show They certainly underline us in this episode. They really give him Everything that you could possibly hate a better person is right there on screen
[00:13:10] You know from that opening scene where he's beating up a possible suspect In the murder remember, this is what he's saying he's beating up this kid for That's one of the kids from the from the Crimson Cat that he arrested last week
[00:13:23] And this isn't someone that could be any way involved in or has any particular reason to be involved In the murders that they're supposed to be investigating Much like what was it? It's probably about 30 or 40 other
[00:13:36] Chicanes who are all in print in the two jail cells on either side But Riley is taking out his racist frustration on this kid at the beginning of the episode and then
[00:13:43] He's using his privilege and using his abilities that he has as a police officer to abuse this young girl Josephine Yeah, absolutely I'm wondering is the reason why he goes as far as he goes with her Is it because he does recognize Mattel when he talks to me?
[00:13:58] He looks in his face and then says oh, I do know you you're not as powerful as you were when you're around your Pacheco friends and I wonder whether that's why he goes so far
[00:14:09] Would you've gone that far if it wasn't for Mattel's connection to the Pacheco's or was he intended to do that the minute he got out of The car I think he does because we later find out that he abuses women gives them drugs
[00:14:21] Yeah, and use them as sex slaves to the group prostitutes. Yeah So yeah, and just just quickly Chris as well I think on the flip side of it would he have done that if he had known that that was Tiago's sister
[00:14:34] That's you know, that's the other interesting thing here because he doesn't seem to know that Mattio is his brother. That's true and so it's an Interesting situation that Riley finds himself in and obviously will come to The actual situation he finds himself in in a moment
[00:14:57] But if it hadn't gone that way would we have Tiago beating him to death? as opposed to Tiago's younger brother Yeah, so this is one thing I just want to get off my chest now, which is that the actual assault scene I
[00:15:17] We've all agreed that was really difficult to watch. Oh, yeah I've seen loads of scenes of assault Unfilmed before I don't know why this was harder to watch than most of the others
[00:15:30] Like this is just sticking in my brain and I don't know whether it's the abuse because it's a policeman or The underage or I don't know what Element or the way it was acted
[00:15:42] I definitely part of it is the way it was acted like just a single tear running down Josephine's face I'm Mattio kind of screaming and I think the two kids are so innocent You know, Mattio and Josephine are seen as being very very young kids
[00:15:57] You know, especially just feel they're talking about their future He's saying to you know when you become famous a famous actress I'll be your bodyguard
[00:16:03] You know when you break away from all of the horror that we have to live in in this horrible area of LA these small Houses and you make your you make your big name and it's just before
[00:16:13] Effectively her spirit is kind of crushed by having Riley do what he does and it's it's so well played She she does a great job because you almost feel that there's a kind of a timidity to her in the scenes beforehand
[00:16:26] But the strength that comes out of her afterwards when she's telling Mattio that he can't tell anybody else about it She suddenly feels like a really strong older person because she's gone through this experience And it is because her innocence has been taken away you can see it
[00:16:38] She the actress in the role just does such a great job of getting across the Horrible painful nature of what's happening in the scene. I think and I think you're right Chris It's one of those things you do see assaults sadly in in films used to loss there
[00:16:52] They sadly something that is put on screen a lot But this is an adult show and they're not shying away from the impact It's actually having on the character and I think it's it's done really well
[00:17:03] I'm I would totally echo your sentiments Chris. Yeah, it's something that is very much more affecting than I've seen in other things Yeah, it was affecting. I think that you know it is down to the whole interaction scene the brother seeing his sister being and
[00:17:20] Manhandled and abused in that way, you know Jonathan Neves does a really Great performance as well as Jessica Garza and I think as well, you know at the heart of it Rod McLaughlin who plays officer Riley he has played this this
[00:17:38] Police officer in a way that you know, I would say there is no one with any sympathy for this character and the obnoxiousness of it the pervasive sense of entitlement and arrogance and persecution that he brings and to the character and
[00:17:57] And then where he's kind of messes match like in the in with Rico in the hospital I think he you know, he's played that really well
[00:18:05] I mean it just the the tap on the rear end as he walks away. So he's not done anything wrong, but it's just Cementing absolutely everything about what he's just done wrong to Josephina and so the whole three actors here were just
[00:18:27] amazing to bring across just how unnerving and sort of Just awful that whole situation was and quick aside to this Rod McLaughlin apparently when he was on set of the Crimson cast with all the you know
[00:18:42] The dancers and stuff and where he had that scene when he came in and was saying loads of racist terms apparently in between Every take he was apologizing to all the actors around look. I'm really sorry. It's in the script
[00:18:53] I have to say this and I'm gonna say it like I mean it, but I don't mean it I genuinely would never say words like this in real life And he was very apologetic He's a lovely kind of he's a very nice
[00:19:03] Friendly person and saying this kind of stuff and doing these kind of scenes is really tough for him So I thought it was quite interesting. I saw that from one of the actors last week Yeah, and I think the other thing you mentioned about how Josephina
[00:19:14] Comes across has really grown up and you think about how she deals with it in comparison to how Matteo has dealt with his own frustrations or How he has felt and it all really comes out on display at then the Vega family dinner
[00:19:32] Really it does absolutely kick off and Josephina actually gets ignored by her her mum in the moment because of the huge argument That's just spilled out with Matteo And but she is trying to resolve exactly what's happened immediately by telling her mom
[00:19:51] And then that's not worked and she goes off to and the the joyful voices ministry. So, you know, it's an interesting And Difference in in how they're dealing with their own frustrations as to this
[00:20:07] persecution that they both find themselves in whereas Matteo and I mean it this this performance here is a force and An absolute force of acting I think by Jonathan Neves both in terms of His his words of saying, you know, you are all soaking weak
[00:20:25] And I'm tired of being weak and for the first time I feel strong, you know He he dismisses his mum because he does she's just a cleaner and He dismisses Tiago because and he kisses ass and and it's all down to the Pichuco symbol that is spotted by
[00:20:44] By Maria and of course it all just boils over and explodes but in this moment You get the sense that what with everything that's just happened to use a fina there with with Riley and and then Effectively because he can't say anything
[00:21:02] And because of the situation at the the family dinner, this is where he becomes radicalized effectively and is helped along by by Riko of the Pichuco's you know that she knows what vain to tap
[00:21:17] Yeah, to to get him going because this is his expression and and it is in such contrast to Josephine as Expression of how she's going to deal with it. What is the Pichuco symbol?
[00:21:30] That's the one I was like is it just is it the cross or yeah, it's the cross with the four dots within Around the the center cross point Right, okay
[00:21:40] Yeah, just just between the the thumb and the finger there in that kind of notch and you can see it Something that's gone really throughout history with these types of groups these types of Effectively kind of gangs that have that have happened, you know
[00:21:54] That have been created you see the reaction from Diego when he sees his younger brother going You'll be killed if you're seen with that mark on your on your skin
[00:22:02] You know there are people there are cops in this city that will see that mark and we'll take it that you are Instantly against them and they will take you out just because of the mark, you know
[00:22:10] He's he's worried. He's scared and he's also angry that his kid brother would go out and do this You know, we yeah, we probably know it from things like you know skinheads back in the 80s
[00:22:19] If you were walking around with a shaved head that was an instant threat to the police They would arrest you almost instantly for having this symbol that you're part of this gang kind of thing
[00:22:28] You know so so I thought that was an interesting moment between the two of them and obviously Maria Vegas Is telling her son that she's massively disappointed instantly. She doesn't want it want an explanation
[00:22:39] She's effectively going you've you've completely disappointed me and that's where their fight comes from But it's a really good scene between all of them, you know Interestingly because we haven't really seen much of the reaction of zombie Vega
[00:22:55] I sorry, I'm so happy that it's staying until something happens, but I did think it was interesting He doesn't react much other than trying to calm the family down in this in this part He doesn't take sides with anybody in the room
[00:23:08] And of course, yes, if he knows just gone through this horrible experience doesn't also take sides She's more Freak debt that there's a fight going on when everything's going on in her mind But Raul doesn't take a side between between Tiago and and Maria
[00:23:22] He kind of sits back and just says everybody calm down and that's it So will we see more from Raul in the future? I hope you do but I think his personality has changed because in the very first episode when we introduced to him he is
[00:23:36] To be fair one of the more hot-headed antagonistic brothers and now we see him joking about How his brother is going at what a gringa? Yeah As he calls her I have to say his turn of phrase on
[00:23:49] The line about why it's much better to be with a Chicano woman rather than a gringa I loved the idea where he goes, you know, we are with a Chicano woman and
[00:23:59] She makes you chase her until she catches you. I love that turn of phrase. It's just so interesting Observation it's still a funny conversation between two brothers as well. I thought that was good You know, I'll make sure that I make a good speech at your wedding
[00:24:11] Went to I go says I haven't even been on a date with this woman Just had one meeting with her and he's like I'll make a good speech at your wedding. Yeah Absolutely, but zombie bro will come back Yeah, absolutely. I think I think
[00:24:24] Zombie bro is probably still in in recuperation here and But certainly someone who needs to maybe calm down but unfortunately is not in that place we get the death of Officer Riley at the hands of Matthew and I found this
[00:24:44] Really tough to watch. I watched it twice in terms of bringing my notes together and each time I think just the visceral nature of how It was done just really Struck me and I think it's because you know a death were the person who is effectively being killed
[00:25:06] Still struggles. Yeah, I find and and because it's not a single sort of wound it's not like a gunshot to the head or Stepping on a mind. This is something war even Mateo Has to see it all the way through
[00:25:26] Hands-on from the moment he puts the razor in the side of Riley's neck all the way through to and having a Tossel with him to sort of just continually slicing his neck and it was Bloody and there is a fantastic. I think the shot is fantastic of Mateo
[00:25:49] Looking down at Riley the Blood stained with his razor and the look in his eyes is devilish It looks like he's been taken on by a demon it it felt to me like the the moments in Penny dreadful the original three series were and Malcolm Murray was
[00:26:12] Possessed by demons where you really get the dark full fully black eyes right it felt and that sort of devilish and I think you know here what we're seeing is absolutely a change in Mateo and We have I think what's been born here is this split with
[00:26:34] His brothers. This is you know the war of brothers It started at the dinner table, but it's been building and Rio has pushed the button on this wall of Brothers and and to top it off Riley is tossed in front of the police station
[00:26:50] Bloody naked and very very much dead. So there is this message Sent to the LAPD, which is gonna ignite things even further me You know from the start of this episode seeing Riley Doing what he was doing in the police station and now you have Riley
[00:27:10] Effects we're going to be the trigger for the LAPD to be even and less accommodating and tolerant of Mexicans and Is is gonna be interesting. Oh absolutely They keep using the s-word Keeps getting harder to listen to I know I know why they're using from a historical perspective
[00:27:33] It would have been used and it's just when you see Tiago Talking to the captain and it's just basically make this stop solve the case and would stop will look at Otherwise the interrogations will continue the dead body of a police officer
[00:27:51] And when you already have the councilman basically showing off the bloody shirt of Previous Laman who had died in the original first episode This is literally this isn't the straw that breaks camel's back This is the two-ton sledgehammer that smashes the camel's back
[00:28:13] And that really kind of kicks off and I know we last episode discussed the Bichuco war The Zootube riots that happened later on in like didn't know four or five years I think they might move things slightly forward just for artistic license
[00:28:31] I even I'm even wondering whether we would get there at all. I'm wondering whether the LAPD are just gonna come All guns blazing after this. Yeah, whether this whether there's gonna be any war at all
[00:28:42] I don't know and because the the interesting thing about the push from Rio to go and Take revenge on Riley is that what Rio says is that she wants to make his face look just like he left
[00:28:53] One of their brothers that the kid who was beaten at the start who has a few bruises a black eye You know, he looks like he's definitely been roughed up
[00:29:01] But she certainly didn't indicate to anybody that you wanted them to go out there and murder a police officer and drop His dead naked body in front of the police station, you know this escalated as it went on and they've fallen into a plan
[00:29:13] You know and also one thing to say definitely this episode shows your penny dreadful isn't just your standard Good guy versus bad guy thing where you know The bad guy Riley finally gets his comeuppance and they shoot him and kill him and then they leave him
[00:29:27] You know that there's much more difficult things in this show, you know You wanted to see Riley get his comeuppance. Okay, he gets killed But you've got to sit there and watch him get his throat sliced open on him bleeding to death on the floor
[00:29:39] You've got to sit there with the characters and see how brutal Brutally a murder is gonna look on screen. You know, they really will show you that stuff. Yeah Just on that in so many other shows they would have showed Matteo stand behind Rivey slices throat
[00:29:56] As blood pours out and I didn't need to laugh there It was just your impersonation of someone losing all their blood through from the neck. Yes As my hands fail
[00:30:08] No, but this they're like, oh no, no, no when you slice someone with a barbershop knife in like across the neck it doesn't just kind of Go through all one way in straight away. No, you've got a saw for a bit. Yeah, and you see Matteo
[00:30:24] Saw the cross of arteries. Yeah to get down there and it's just like spraying open. I was like Okay, but I will take Very quickly. I will take umbridge or challenge with Rio Just saying that we'll leave him. I think this is This is Rio. This is Rio
[00:30:49] Like there's a line or well-known lines like I will I'll be the spark Basically, she is the spark to this powder cake absolutely and I'm still trying to figure out where the others what the other sparks are going to explode
[00:31:06] But very much we now know what the Rio spark is. It's that she's igniting the race riot part of Of we again nation versus nation brother versus brother race versus race back to the prophecy
[00:31:21] The the Rio is igniting. She's a race. Yeah, well, she's igniting both. She's igniting race and brothers because She has given Matteo the place to event his frustration And he's done that and even before this with The first meeting, you know, he got the tattoo he felt belong
[00:31:45] It's hence what he says to his own family. He sees them now has been weak that they're somehow hiding It's probably why he doesn't say anything. He probably disapproves of Josephina and in a sense keeping it to herself in that moment and that he can't say anything
[00:32:02] Yes, he respects it in that moment But he's seeing all his family is being weak and that's coming from how He has been given his confidence and his strength through the Pachucos but through Rio and then as you say there is the the
[00:32:19] the tinderbox which has just been happened with and Riley being dumped in front of the police station. I think, you know, it is absolutely Rio's way of of doing this because you saw Rico Yes, he's gone along with it, but he has been more held back
[00:32:39] Yeah in that at the Crimson Cat where they're discussing about targeting Riley It is because Matteo stands up and the guy who's been beaten up in in the police station at the start of the episode where he Says I'm with you and in a sense
[00:32:59] Rio is forcing Rico's hand to to move in in this way So if that is really Like interesting and as you say Chris, I think what this death shows is the struggle of killing In that not only it's not clean with a barber's razor but when your
[00:33:23] opponent is a Large police officer who's struggling and grasping at life It's even harder. It's dirty. It's hands-on. It's unpleasant. It's brutal it's all of that and Yeah, you know, you all wanted Riley to have his come up and and for me
[00:33:48] Probably doesn't make great sort of TV but it would be that he gets justice served to him But of course, this is violent justice. This is a vengeance. This is revenge by Matteo and the other guy as well. I think has knuckle dusted in beforehand. So
[00:34:08] You see him with a knuckle duster. So Riley certainly has Been the message to the LAPD For sure. Yeah More about the actual point though as well I know you want to talk a little bit just finna meeting sister Molly as well in the episode John
[00:34:26] Yeah, I think for me again Discuss this that she you know, she's gone to the joy form Voices ministry and and she connects with that sermon that preaching from from Molly She hasn't been listened to by a mormon that moment. That's not say that Maria Vega wouldn't
[00:34:45] Listen to her her daughter at that moment But in this moment she has sought solace and a way of trying to deal with it by going to The ministry the joyful voices ministry here
[00:34:59] She she connects with with Molly and I suppose just because of the title of the episode Which is Yozo Fina and the Holy Spirit that is Molly here in the form of the Holy Spirit There is that moment where she is looking up at the the ceiling of
[00:35:18] The auditorium and she's murmuring something It's like this idea that she becomes possessed in a way and and the change in behavior is noticed by Mrs. Adelaide her mother and And kind of takes her back you see her her mom kind of almost hugging herself
[00:35:36] You know that that moment just to kind of steady herself And I know you've mentioned it as well previously Derek that is she trying to call on some kind of spirit or whatever so I'm just wondering is Molly here the effectively the
[00:35:54] Epistopol Catholic evangelical version of Santa Mercer or she's calling upon that that the Holy Spirit or the Virgin Mary and it's also just because her and Tiago are connecting as well. Yeah, because he's been touched by Santa Mercer that he somehow has some
[00:36:13] Root to her and maybe Molly does as well Yeah, but not to Santa Mercer to the Holy Spirit the Virgin Mary Whoever it may be. Yeah, it's very hard to tell what this show isn't it because these are the exact same tactics that an
[00:36:28] Evangelical minister uses to try to get people to donate to their ministry You know, this is a ministry that makes a lot of money. These are the exact things that they do They jump around the stage they take away people's pain. They cure people of illnesses
[00:36:41] They couldn't possibly be cured from in any other way to therefore They must have an actual direct connection to some form of higher power kind of thing and She doesn't actually say it. She says the devil is in the room She says God is around us
[00:36:55] She says I need to protect you and then she does this moment where she looks up in the sky And it seems to take Mrs. Adelaide by surprise that she's going this far with it But it could all be part of the act of course as well
[00:37:06] I'm just a penny dreadful So you have to ask, you know Is there gonna be a moment where we find out that when she was a young girl? She was possessed by what she is explaining is a Holy Spirit. Maybe it's not maybe it's another demon
[00:37:18] You know, this could be something that is coming out over the next few episodes And I mean I'm really intrigued just by this moment whether it will just be This is the play that she puts on for everybody to get money for her mother in the organization
[00:37:29] Or she's actually being possessed by a demon and translating it as the Holy Spirit so We are reintroduced again to Santa Martha at the beginning of this episode Who she does not interact She does not involve herself directly. And that's what she said before I don't involve
[00:37:52] I don't do it directly. My job is just one thing. Yeah, she doesn't care for the living She cares for the souls of the dead. Yeah Molly is talking about souls Molly is talking about Everything so I am wondering Could it be Santa Martha
[00:38:08] doing this product in this Possession yeah, or does she talk to Molly? Mm-hmm So like that's that why Molly and Thiago potentially are linked or find each other and Kind of are drawn to each other is because they're both touched By Santa Martha. Yeah
[00:38:34] Because some would see Santa Marte as the Holy Spirit or like a The the person that brings that the souls with them to heaven wherever Could that just be the Santa Marte is the Holy Spirit just in different form?
[00:38:54] Yeah, I don't know. I don't know whether we have an equivalent in the Christian religion I know I know we have death and some religions That is yeah that thing that transports the souls to the beyond effectively and Exactly both of us saying exactly the same time
[00:39:10] Yeah, like they're you know in Norse religions and in Greek religions There are different versions of this character Santa Marta is the angel of death is another Description for her as well
[00:39:20] So I don't know whether it's a direct connection to what we would think of as a Holy Spirit But I can certainly get if she is channeling some form of Angel or some form of death of demon that in her own
[00:39:32] Christian mind she may be thinking this is I'm definitely got a connection to the Holy Spirit Absolutely, I think you know we've seen with Maria She has had to incant to Santa Marta to to to bring her to
[00:39:48] Talk with her and so on so it's either that Molly Knows about Santa Marta through an experience because we do see at the start that again the The the the child who was gunned down at Ensenada in Mexico seems to notice her
[00:40:05] So maybe at some point she noticed Santa Marta the reason why I was thinking because of the Holy Spirit that you know Not that it necessarily has to be exactly like Santa Marta in terms of someone Fearing souls that have died but just the the spiritual and
[00:40:24] Nature of it that there is this conduit that she has gone it may be Santa Marta It may be the Holy Spirit and in the same way that Tiago that connection he has this This touch of her and so maybe has this conduit which his mom has been
[00:40:42] Talking about that's the that's why I was bringing that up because yeah, and it seems here that There is more to Molly and her connection to Tiago but also Potentially to Yosafina now as well And maybe that's another thing that we will have built on
[00:41:02] Absolutely absolutely as I said at the beginning of the episode we could talk about each of these points for an hour each We're not going to talk about them for that long Chris
[00:41:09] Do you want to take us on to the next the next big point from the episode? Yes, it's a very quickly minus very much related to this which is Tiago Molly So that is that kind of the other trifecta which is Tiago the death and Molly
[00:41:23] So in the last episode we speculated was Molly with Haslitt it was she having any affair is that real was that just Mitchner kind of Kind of believing it to be true was Has the trying to help Molly no they
[00:41:42] Flattered prove it in this episode. She was she is a woman. She has needs She was with Haslitt as she says and she has been with other men, too And she just wanted an escape. She wants to be normal. That's what that house was
[00:41:58] So we get Tiago to be fair doing his wifeling around we see the lubricated Trojans while Tiago was doing the Rummaging of the house the investigation of the house. I was like, oh, this is just the Haslitt's house Basically, it's a wife. All right
[00:42:15] And I was like going oh, it's this nice and like is it haslet and his wife like it's there somewhere home He was embezzling the money and Etc then the Trojans were there and I was like
[00:42:27] Hmm. No, and then all of a sudden Molly's hair. I'm like and she just admits It's like no, I'm sleeping with men I've had men before before you went everything and to be fair straight away. I'm like go girl. Yeah
[00:42:41] You don't have a relationship with Tiago aside from your beautiful moment Down on the pier and I'm like, yeah, no like put him in his place. He doesn't own you like yeah stand up
[00:42:53] I have to say there is a moment with Tiago when he finds those those Trojans in the drawer You can see his face drop going. Oh It's like she's not the woman I thought she was you know
[00:43:04] She's not the one that she sold and I love that it's addressed in the conversation with Molly where she says We were both different people yesterday. We were both pretending to be other people
[00:43:13] You told me that I could you know, that's what he says to her the bus stop He says why don't we try and be different people for one day and they were and they fell He thinks they fell in love in that day, you know
[00:43:23] It does play out much nicer towards the end of the episode, of course but but she's having that moment where She's saying she's saying to him, you know, you gave me the opportunity. I was a different person
[00:43:33] I didn't tell you every single secret I have in my life And is it shocking to find that I have got a life outside of that moment that we spent together yesterday, you know Well, that's true. You say that it plays out better. I must say
[00:43:46] To use the words of her goss. I love what it does to us Given that he is connecting over dirty dishes He must really love her to do the washing up as a date I didn't think that was sweet. I
[00:44:05] Literally was not expect I was expecting him to burn Burn the bridge down and we would come back to the sister Molly From a Tiago storyline perspective towards the end. Okay, and I'm actually it's like no they showed
[00:44:20] Now they haven't shown this conversation, but I think there's a level of acceptance here where we're gonna see more of Molly yeah So and not just from the Josephina potentially possessed route like this is that no no look
[00:44:34] She's a woman with womanly needs. She's human. She is just Basically once relationships she wants a partner. She wants just normal life Not just being sister Molly They're gonna say actually my real name not even Molly. It's Kate or something
[00:44:52] I must say I thought she did that really well that was just fantastic you really felt as you say Chris you really felt her Despair at having to put on the act To the parishioners in a sense or for her mom even whatever it may be
[00:45:13] That's sense from her betrayal though was really really good It makes sense what we when we were first introduced yeah, and she's sitting behind the curtain and we were like is she in trance Is she no she's just like an actor
[00:45:29] Preparing for to go on stage. She's putting on the persona of sister Molly. She's becoming sister Molly where she's like All right build yourself psych yourself up with a big presentation I still think that could have been indication. She was being possessed about time
[00:45:45] Sorry, I'm not saying she's not and I think there's definitely a massive question mark on the whole supernatural Slash sister Molly angle and I think we're they'll dive into it soon enough
[00:45:59] We're gonna get to the end of the season and there's gonna be no supernatural element with her at all Yeah, but then but it's it's it's exactly your lead to believe that but skipping to the end I enjoy that this Reconciliation where there's no words
[00:46:18] It was just like can I come in help? Yeah, and she hands him the the dirty dish and they go back because It it's only that we know that this is her safe space That she's called that out in the very first episode
[00:46:35] This is where I come to be alone to think about And that she's he's inviting her back in so I'm like, okay. We're in a good spot Yeah, because I did think that it was kind of early doors
[00:46:49] For the two of them because she says I don't want to ever see you again But yeah, yeah, I mean you're a was it was lovely and sweet and it's just I suppose if you asked
[00:46:58] To meet over some dirty dishes, but you're right. That's that's her safe spot It's her safe spot Meet me by the dirty dishes. Yeah, exactly. Um Yeah, you'd probably get a slap these days or meet me by the dishwasher as we load it
[00:47:18] Although I like personally I'm I'm with Molly on this I welcome to inside baseball for TV podcast industries on Chris I enjoy doing the dishes because I exactly like sister Molly my brain turns off. I go into automatic mode
[00:47:33] It's just wax on wax off clean put away. Don't put wax in anyway back to don't wax on wax off Unless you've got a karate bout to win. I always have a karate in my mind So moving on
[00:47:49] From one cop to the other because I think we kind of covered Tiago and Molly The big the biggest part for me And we discussed it and you actually brought it up very quickly at the beginning of this episode Derek was
[00:48:05] Mitcher and the Jews and the Nazi plot So for me I Know I said I wanted more last episode in terms of the Verne von Braun and I admitted to that I'm actually sticking to that. I think I could have done it more than but You're right
[00:48:27] They they did it for a reason and I hate saying that you're right But you were right They did if they held back for a reason on explaining Verne von Braun because we have to get introduced to the Jewish Gang the underground the the Jewish mafia Jewish mafia
[00:48:44] It sounds like a joke. It's just like the gay mafia The Jewish mafia itself being gender. Well, no, no, they was actually apparently Jewish mafia back there. Oh, it's it's proud It's big. It's it's massively well known as well
[00:48:58] I'm I think I've mentioned before that that I used to read a lot of crime books of true crime books About gangsters when I was when I was younger and the Jewish gangsters explains. Yeah, yeah There's a massive cohort of them very well known
[00:49:14] One of the people that's mentioned by Mitch in the conversation between himself and Benny Berman The the connection I suppose he mentions his boss Mayor Lansky Mayor Lansky was known as the mobs accountant He's a real figure in during the early days and
[00:49:31] Probably instrumental in the setting up of organized crime across America He was the one that dealt with clearing the money and dealt with the books for for the mafia For gaxers and the mob all across America. So so yeah, very well known figure
[00:49:45] In crime scenes. See I just thought I found it funny Sorry funny not funny. Haha funny interesting in that you think of the mob you think of the Italians You think of a good bone and a mama Mia and that's stereotype
[00:49:59] But we get introduced to one of my favorite actors Brad Garrett like he's currently on single parents season 2 where he plays a Plastic surgeon and it's just funny. He has his comedic chops there, but you see it here and He's the he plays the towering
[00:50:19] mobster because he's what like six of these six three or six four yet. Yeah, he's huge Yeah, put him beside Nathan Lane and The difference is huge. Nathan Lane. It looks like a doll. He's looks tiny and can person yeah
[00:50:34] And then you put the two of the one seats at the funeral or at the end of the funeral and you see you start to see where Michener as a character not just as a cop not as a detective
[00:50:47] You see him as a force where he's now he's going toe-to-toe with the mom But going this I'm put I'm not coming to you as a detective like I need to speak to mayor Nancy and
[00:51:02] We get no you do not talk about that and then he goes no, this is about Judea This is they're gonna do that. They are gonna burn us down and You get Benny pushing back going no like we're mobs like we don't care
[00:51:18] Like this is not about us And it's then just usually woven later on yeah Absolutely explain to me why this should matter to me that that the Nazis are coming kind of thing We're in LA we're so far away from Germany, you know
[00:51:32] It's this idea that they're on the other side of the world from Germany. Why does it matter? There's no way the Nazis could be there and I love the explanation that Michener gives to well You guys got here because it's a really easy city to control
[00:51:44] You think the Nazis didn't think like that I think the Nazis who are looking for a foothold in America didn't think well Maybe we should go for LA where everything's easy
[00:51:52] Everything's a pushover we can pay off the right people and we can get people in our positions and take over the city You know of course they did and he tries to talk about say the rockets So we this where we have verner von Braun
[00:52:02] He goes the kids in Caltech and he goes they'll steal this technology from the kids in Caltech And they'll be able to put a rocket in in London in Paris in New York
[00:52:15] In Jerusalem, which is even more important to and then he goes in Jerusalem. I guess we go That's this is where the points are coming across And then very quickly we're reintroduced to Benny via a beautiful mob style Kidnapping it's like you get the the very classic hood
[00:52:37] It was like a grab and they bring them off and were reintroduced to Benny in the fish market And I was like oh like at least it wasn't a butcher shop or something I Exactly just massive fish hanging
[00:52:52] But I liked how this was tied back to the very beginning it back to Mexico because I my assumption on this was it was Like it was the Nazis stealing This because that's you're just you're assuming now that the bad guys are the Nazis in this
[00:53:13] So anyone kind of going against anyone is the bad guys It's the Nazis and we get to see the background of how this is now affecting the mob in that their sit-ments are being stolen and Being sold to the Nazis by another Jew
[00:53:30] And you're like oh, this is where it starts to get interesting but To be fair Benny says shoot him Mentor says does he tells him where to put it? He stands up what he believes it
[00:53:45] Actually looking for help. He's not looking to sell a soul to the devil basically Yeah, and that's that's why he would refuse it But mr. Schiff did not last very long there at all even even though
[00:53:55] Mentioner refuses and I have to say and the shot as they walk out of the room effectively saying You know we will be on your side because but there will be blood and death
[00:54:05] As as Judea rises again kind of thing as they all walk out of the room and the shot of Mitchner standing there as the body Spins around almost to look towards him after he's been shot. It's yeah, that was really good. Yeah, that was perfect timing
[00:54:18] I like tarot and The scene was slightly cut with Riley's ordeal as well because ultimately Mitchner Retains his integrity as a cop just because I mean it's it is cops and criminals working together here and He's doing it for the whole Zionist cause the protection of Jewish
[00:54:45] People but it's still a cop working with the mafia It's one of those great things were penny dreadful has these layers of gray So I still don't think of Mitchner as being a bent or corrupt cop and I think him refusing to shoot Schiff
[00:55:03] and is really important in that even though they are about to go and Do business together but with them so he keeps his and he does keep his integrity here And I again this all deal of Mitchner With and with with Benny Berman is intercut with
[00:55:27] Riley a little now it's a different type of ordeal certainly well except for for mr. Schiff He does get his brains blown out. Yeah, but yeah for sure I think this is this is really nice
[00:55:39] And it was kind of a nice little potted history of I suppose the Free Judea or Israeli state as well. I like that I like the fact that they you know, New York is closed to the Nazis because of LaGuardia and aka LaGuardia Airport
[00:55:58] Because he's half Jewish mayor. Yeah LaGuardia Yeah, I couldn't remember that he was named after the mayor of New York at the time I didn't know LaGuardia was the man. I knew it was obviously a person. So yeah, I Didn't even know that
[00:56:15] I actually thought they meant the airport because they couldn't get a whole thing makes more sense. Yes, the airport is not half Jewish Chris Almost impossible. I think it is No, I am anything I'm equal opportunity when it comes to religious building penny dreadful. It could be possessed
[00:56:33] It's like hell house, but hell airports which is probably every airport at the moment Yes, too. Have you been to LAX then? That's that's definitely part of hell But anyway, that's kind of enough of my points
[00:56:45] I think there is one final point that we need to talk about very badly Derek do you want to give us your point for this episode? Yep I'm gonna wrap everything up in in one point for me Because a big bow. Yeah, it's a big bow really
[00:56:59] It's Magda taking her revenge on Everyone through all of her personas it kind of ties into every single storyline and gives the ability to talk about the two Major storylines. We haven't talked about in the episode as well
[00:57:11] And so we've already talked about about Rio's kind of connection and the revenge that she's taken by Using Mateo effectively to kind of start kick off that war with the police
[00:57:21] I think we talked in last week's episode about that moment with Alex where she lost control really of Kenselman Tenzin and he was walking away from her and she turned back into Magda We wondered what Magda was going to do would we see Magda
[00:57:36] Personified again doing some kind of attack some kind of killing of people around her And I think if I understand what's happening in this episode actually we see Magda using all of her personas to take revenge on everybody around her we see
[00:57:50] Rio using the people that are around her the Pachukos to take revenge on the police for their attack on the club effectively we see Alex Definitely taking revenge on Kenselman Tenzin for disobeying her. She's now
[00:58:04] Now in proper league with Goss and with and with curse. She's using curse to abduct Kenselman Tenzin and effectively make a video tape of them that she can blackmail him into doing whatever she needs him to do
[00:58:18] You know, I love the kind of conversation between the two of them between Between Alex and Goss where they're saying you know well at least he's gonna be He's gonna be with one of ours. He's not gonna have to go out and pay for it anymore
[00:58:29] At least we have someone that will take care of him of all his needs and Goss going well Kirk will definitely do that for him Kirk knows exactly what it's all entails, you know Yeah, I must say I did think her goss Was was priceless saying that line
[00:58:45] Just the intonation of like our love what it does to us just With the projector flickering between him and Alex having just seen the image of what's being projected there And he is calmly sort of smoking his cigarillo
[00:59:02] With a glass of his favorite tip or I just thought his composure with being very matter-of-fact with what was going on on the screen was just really Really good and let's just say there'll be none of that For the dreadful pub quiz whilst we enjoy our favorite tip
[00:59:23] We'll have no raunchy blue visuals going on there But I just like their conversation between him and Alex and that last moment because her goss is really quite Sophisticated in a sense and I like you know
[00:59:41] He won't just kill councilwoman Beck and in the same way well, we'll just hold this I'm you know in case we need it along with with Alex. I thought it was just Nicely plagued by her goss absolutely and I have to say the scene itself
[00:59:57] As curse is abducting Kesselman towns and did anybody else think this so was gonna play out I definitely thought yeah, I'm gonna end off at the bottom of a ditch as soon as they move Yeah Exactly as soon as they went into the motel
[01:00:10] I thought then no, I mean drove in I thought okay, but absolutely up to that point I thought like it was played really really nicely by Michael Gladys the the panic as he's you know Going even further into the remote Hills around LA
[01:00:29] Basically gonna get a bullet because let's face it. Here's Hossler and that was pretty brutal Like he opens to leave and it's Dum dum, you know, it's like the silence of thought of a gulm which is really kind of slightly disturbing anyway
[01:00:44] Yeah, but yeah that hustler and in his prime looking fairly Magnificent and and yeah gone Snuffed out. Yeah, but they did ensure that you got a line from him that was about to rip off the councilman again
[01:01:00] You know, he was saying to him. I know we agreed on 500 Yeah, and so you do know this kid is not the nicest of people either So just before he gets shot in the head
[01:01:08] But it's the whole scene has played so well with Dominic Sherwood who plays the character of Kurt where Where you have councilman in the back trying to open the doors as he gets to as the car slows down and Kirk go into him
[01:01:19] You can't get out. It's control from up here And you know your and it doesn't say anything more to him Even when questioned about whether he's American or not, you know You hear the the accent from him and can't someone's going hang on a second
[01:01:31] You're American. You're supposed to be part of the Gestapo and he goes no no I many things and you know these really Short answers not to assuage any fears not to calm them down at all and before they get into that tell
[01:01:43] That yeah, they just felt like a real Out of nowhere surprise that this is happening between the two of them There was definitely a bit of silence when I was live tweeting this moment
[01:01:53] There's a lot of fans of Dominic Sherwood. I keep forgetting whether I've mentioned this in the show Dominic Sherwood is a as an actor who is very big in a very popular television show with a Certain demographic of people who are all massive fans of Dominic Sherwood
[01:02:07] I think they went quite silent when they were live tweeting along and this moment happened It was completely unexpected for for most people ever dreams crushed in a black and white image I don't know where they're crushed or not Exactly
[01:02:21] So a lot of people come in very happy depending on which preference absolutely and so But I like the idea that dreams were made and crushed in one swoop Much like what Mike did That's so that's kind of Alex's revenge We know now she's
[01:02:40] Probably got some Intesant back in her pockets for whatever else she needs him to do in future And then the other kind of big well massive story from the episode really is is Elsa Going over to the party and Dr. Kraft's house. So I think this revenge
[01:02:57] Which is effectively the sex scene that she has with dr. Kraft I think this actually comes about because of the challenge from Dr. Kraft's wife that we heard at the beginning of the show the Moment because I don't think she was intending on having sex with them there
[01:03:10] She did tell him last time that she wasn't gonna have sex in the house of her Fictional husband as we know that dr. Kraft doesn't know it's fictional, but we know that she wasn't I Believe that she wasn't intending to go there to to have sex them
[01:03:24] But when she got challenged she was like, okay, this is the way I'm gonna manipulate this man into Leaving this wife who thinks she can still control him and then finally we also have the manipulation of the fifth persona of
[01:03:37] Magda I suppose if you count my fifth persona is Frank right because he was left there on his own out of sleep over with the rest of the kids and Not only does he tell the scary story of the scary true story of
[01:03:51] Florence and the kid who unfortunately was murdered with arms taken off and eyes sewn open. He also enters the nightmares of Tom the kid who kind of recognized who he was he enters the nightmares as Another character another persona. He actually is
[01:04:09] Is Florence in his dreams like the idea that Magda is there as Frank and then is also Cladding himself in the body of Florence and waking Tom up to show that he's there, you know, that it's terrifying
[01:04:22] I don't know if that was in his mind. Yeah, I think cuz they can morph the body I literally think Frank became. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what I said. Yeah Oh, not. Yeah, sorry. I thought you meant the end of the nightmare. No, no, no
[01:04:37] He he literally it like just met him transformed like from evil Frank to evil. Yeah, I thought when you said he was in his nightmares It was almost like a Freddy Krueger thing
[01:04:50] But that was yeah, it seemed to me like he was taking on poor Florence in all her Forms in that sense. Yeah, absolutely. No, I was I mean
[01:05:00] He's entering and not his nightmares because he's going to be having nightmares about that moment for the rest of his life And thinking it might have been a dream. It wasn't a dream
[01:05:07] Yeah, terrifying the job they did on that version of Florence the limbless version of her when she's staring screaming at him Was terrifying. Yeah. Yeah idea I still So yes, Mike just taking revenge and I agree with you on this one the challenge
[01:05:25] I think potentially because you're correct because She's then somewhat flirting with this other gentleman that we get introduced to the other Nazi Who we see at the very first episode with Dr. Kraft? Ethan Peck plays a character. Yeah, Herman Ackerman is the character. Yes. Yes, exactly
[01:05:47] Um, and I think then it is the challenge of Dr. Kraft's wife, which you played in the intro It really does seem to be that potentially yes. I just still don't know where this is going This is the one that's can not confusing me
[01:06:03] This is the one that I'm like Okay, I don't know how this is going to bring up by the prophesied end Right now. This is the one I'm like all the other ones. I can kind of see right
[01:06:15] This is the one where like yes, she's just gonna be the doctors mistress Well, I would feel in the same way that Rio has Effectively aided to the radicalization of Mateo Yeah, I feel that Elsa's aiding to the radicalization of Dr. Kraft
[01:06:30] You know, we see this group of people feeling that they're not being listened to anymore They have gone out to the parks. They've tried to share their word and you hear
[01:06:39] Herman Ackerman saying if we could just get on the radio then everybody in the country could hear what we want to say He's trying to pervert the nation with their thoughts in the same way that sister Molly is doing with her
[01:06:51] Evangelical Christian thoughts on the radio waves, you know And you hear that the read the thing that's stopping them from some of the Nazis that are there or some of the fascists that are there
[01:06:59] They're saying the reason why they can't do that is because well the Jews own the radio on the radio waves and they won't let us on board And so there is that antagonism that's being built up and she's stoking those fires
[01:07:10] You know, we've been mentioned before she's not the person that's saying this is the end game And you have to go there and you have to do this She's whispering their ear giving them some guidance as the path that they are probably going to follow
[01:07:21] And that end point they're gonna get to is where she wants it to go without saying it directly. Yeah, I Yeah, I was also I think it's I think there is a melting pot element here to this whole storyline in that
[01:07:35] Maybe one of these story threads is a kickoff It's I did at the melting pot of all these different people and different cultures So that you've got the Mexicans the Jewish you've got Germans there as well
[01:07:50] You've got people who see themselves as American patriots in towns and this melting pot is Leasing to sort of this domino effect to a bigger thing And I think there's an element of that to me in that the melting pot here is causing the tensions
[01:08:08] It's driving the tensions that spill downwards towards a family and upwards to effectively a world war And I think there's an element of that so For me, yeah, and I suppose more it's only really this episode where he's mentioning about Getting on the radio that maybe this is
[01:08:32] The connection in with say the Molly Element to it but otherwise up till now. I've just really been thinking that Elsa. Yeah, it's trying to radicalize and Dr. Kraft and in the same way that Rio has radicalized Mateo and Alex is effectively in a different way
[01:08:57] Radicalizing towns and to make radical decisions. I suppose and that he wouldn't normally have gone down But yeah, I know what you mean Chris. It's a toffee and it's like even on this
[01:09:12] I want to see more of Linda craft now as well because I loved her in this garden party She does a superb resting bitch face Which I want to see more of and that that opening to the podcast that little sort of
[01:09:34] You know putting Elsa in her place Little does she know I suppose but it's just great. The henpeck is Very nicely done by Linda car craft here So good. Yeah, absolutely And I do it does ask those questions that we have no idea about this questions over again
[01:09:53] Probably gonna find out as the series goes on what did happen in Essen? What is about exactly that family does that mean he has another family as in wife and kids or Did he turn over his own family to the Nazis before leaving Essen?
[01:10:07] Is that something about it's you know, his parents and his brother and sisters, you know that kind of stuff You know, so it really intrigued to know why it is that she effectively hates dr. Craft so much
[01:10:17] Why is it that she doesn't like him and why is it that she's staying? She has stuck with him So yeah, it's really intriguing stuff that I'm sure we're gonna get a paper parable page character She's a well-known actress. I can't imagine that she's only there for that
[01:10:30] Wonderful though it is Just that one see, you know Exactly though. That was my thing was like what what was that? Because I know there was some things around rotor one and Essen But I don't know how they would interact with this
[01:10:47] But I also don't want to say anything just yet just in case I write but this way didn't see Yes, but anyway, so wrapping it up Is there anything else you think around how might I will kind of take her revenge over the coming episodes?
[01:11:02] I think I think this is our first to big moment We're seeing all those little pieces that she has her actually manipulating those pieces in the way and her getting her little revenge on some of the people that may have
[01:11:12] Not followed her guidance in the past I suppose yeah, but also we should mention it here as well Just Santa Marta as well being the bookend to the episode in a way Opening the episode being there at the debts at the hands of mr. Schiff
[01:11:26] And then claiming her soul at the end of the episode as mr. Schiff is killed for what he did to the innocence That were killed in that moment everything was found out the plan was found out and he was stopped
[01:11:35] You wonder whether that's something that Santa Marta did get involved in To claim the soul of somebody that killed an innocent, you know At the why would that that scene be there at the beginning of the episode where she's there where she's connecting with the innocent child
[01:11:49] Why would it be there and why would we have the comeuppance to mr. Schiff at the end of the episode if it wasn't something connected to that overarching story of What is Santa Marta willing to do and to protect humans and to protect the living?
[01:12:05] Because there is a that open question. She says she doesn't care. She says she's not supposed to that's not her way She's supposed to care for the souls, but Well, that's a question posed right
[01:12:14] She's definitely not gonna stand out of it for the whole series because then you wouldn't have an arc of her character So could this be an indication that she is actually stepping in in some senses to protect some of the people that shouldn't be killed
[01:12:27] Yeah, I get the feeling that what we're gonna see is mighta is a very much direct She she directly involves herself to prod the story where she wants to the prod the human Wait, just part of whisper here there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
[01:12:42] I think what we'll find is that Santa Marta is potentially involved though. She just in not direct like It's like a softer touch The touch of an angel just guiding but the good whisper if you whisper on the wind I'd be interested to see
[01:13:02] Where it goes, that's pretty much my point anything else that you guys had on on magda and the revenge that she's being taken And I just it was more on Frank and I think and his scary story. I think
[01:13:14] For me there were two elements that I really liked about this one that it kind of did throw me back to those scary stories as a kid
[01:13:21] Where someone would do a ghost story and then someone would do a real life story, which would freak you out even more and So I thought was really good and just the way Frank
[01:13:33] Delivers it in this kind of creepy way and certainly when he just shuts off the torch Right at the end of it. Yeah, I thought was really nicely and how that developed with then further going after Tom through his his
[01:13:50] His morphing into Florence more but it also felt like was this Frank a k Florence a k Elsa a k Magda actually Kind of delivering a warning because I love how he says how it happened in Pasadena close to your house
[01:14:09] Tom and he really is this a warning to the crafts that you know, don't get in the way in a sense Or are we gonna see that Tom Trevor or Linda are going to be embroiled in something like this and
[01:14:23] That there will be a kidnapping and for whatever reason I don't know it felt like it was a warning shot from Frank and Whether the kids in the room Trevor and Tom actually understood it is that who knows but it was just when he said
[01:14:41] Well, they happen in Pasadena and just a couple of blocks away from your house Yeah, and it's like a wreckier time. Yeah, I'm making the point that Scary stuff can happen here in Pasadena and it will be real. I thought that was just really
[01:14:59] Really nicely done. Yeah, excellent. Excellent. Yeah, you're absolutely right And you're also completely correct That is absolutely how those stories go when you're a kid You tell a scary story about a zombie or a mummy or a witch or something and suddenly somebody goes
[01:15:13] Oh, did you hear about what happened? Just down the street from your house This murder happened or this thing happened It's always something closer to home as well. So it's a nice connection there as well and any other notes about the episode
[01:15:27] No, so Dela smart does any notes of the dead? No, no to me Just want to reiterate how tough of a scene that was at the fence with just a feeling just to watch Yeah, really really tough really really tough when one that I just want to mention
[01:15:40] I know you mentioned the actor Brad Garrett Chris just in case anybody else didn't recognize him he's probably best known from everybody loves Raymond the Sish calm and I'm using air quotes national
[01:15:52] My type of my type of sitcom. I write there with you. That's I know he's in it. I just never watched Everybody's he's Raymond's brother and he he was in every episode of the show. So that went on for about 55 years I think Just
[01:16:11] Just really interesting especially having him paired up with Nathan Lane both known as comedic actors and seeing them both in Very serious roles in this episode even though we have a little bit of comedy between the two and there is a nice comedic moment
[01:16:23] between the two of them in this episode but But really interesting to see comedic actors being cast in these very serious roles in here Mention about mayor landscape being the mobs accountant as well
[01:16:35] But one thing just about the song that is sung by at the German Bundt the Dr. Kraft's house That song is an heller undein bats and the penny and the dime Interesting for a painful. It's a popular German folk song from the 1800s regular fixture of beer hulls
[01:16:53] Across Germany, but did become very well known as a marching song for German soldiers during World War two So yeah, nice little bit of foreshadowing there that these this group of the German Bundt would be singing
[01:17:06] Would choose this particular song led by Elsa and that would eventually go on to become a marching song for German soldiers In World War two. Oh my god Do you imagine she's gonna introduce later on Magda as Elsa will bring in and this is my friend
[01:17:20] I don't know and we find out that she's been whispering to Adolf John any notes from your side yet not nothing from my side at all. Okay, so gentlemen then I believe it's time We'll wrap up this episode. So because John he who speaks last speaks first
[01:17:44] What did you think of this episode of Penny Jettville season one episode for city of angels Josephina and the Holy Spirit? I thought this episode was really really good. It had a massive feel of momentum I think it was challenging across a whole range of things
[01:18:03] and I loved how Magda was inserted in all of this and How bad things were starting to come about You know that this this revenge as you were saying Derek And so for me, this is absolutely four and a half yas out of five and
[01:18:27] Indeed and I think it was just really good, you know the interrelationships here are really Stop some us some new ones are beginning to emerge. But I think in particular around Mateo you's a Fina and Officer Riley for me
[01:18:48] That I think it was amazing though those interrelationships so so challenging really brutal and What it kind of brings about in terms of what it kicks off is phenomenal I think that was just done so so well and I loved Linda Kraft as well
[01:19:12] At her party, you know mother be Walking around and she will sting my goodness She will sting and then with with Benny Berman What a great introduction to a character and and having Michener, you know He is desperate enough to need the mob as a detective
[01:19:35] Yet I think you know he comes out of it with some of his integrity very much Intact and I think that's what I love about Penny Dreadful. I think things are written. They're not just bad or good they are
[01:19:51] Absolutely somewhere in between and in fact they can they can move all over the place over the course of the season people can be Bad they can disappoint. They can be good. They can come back down to earth And it's it's really
[01:20:06] Nicely fluid like I think real life is and it's challenging in terms of what happens to you as a Fina from Riley but also Mateo doing his first kill brutal bloody hands in and
[01:20:22] Really what I love about Penny Dreadful and it's it's really good seeing it on City of Angels So yeah four and a half yards out of five Excellent Derek over to yourself What did you think of this episode Josephine and see how this really?
[01:20:43] I really really enjoyed this episode apart from that moment where the German Bund were talking and we're standing around That section together and talking back and forth all American and English actors
[01:20:53] And I knew the minute I saw Chris would be attempting his German accent all episode this week And I couldn't stop I was like, oh no, please don't and then they had a sing song And I was like Chris is gonna attempt that on the podcast as well
[01:21:05] So you're on my mind when I was watching this episode Chris. Thank you I'm all I should be always on your mind especially when there is terrible You are when they're terrible accents at play Chris we have been spurred the singing. We have let's be let's be thankful
[01:21:20] But the good news is the acting the writing in this episode and the storyline really got me off that pretty quickly I thought there was some of the best moments in this and the season so far in this episode everything from how scary the
[01:21:34] The night tale was from Frank, you know if you were eight or nine years old and You heard that story or six or seven years old and heard that story And then turned over in your bed at night and saw the personification of the character
[01:21:46] You just heard about I think you'd be terrified for life. You know, it's certainly wet in the bed pretty quickly I think you'd be terrified for life at that moment It's a life-changing experience, but that's plus the gruesomeness of Riley's murder plus the
[01:22:01] difficulty in watching the scene with just a thing and Riley as well, you know, there's so many Really good scenes really good show. I have to say I'm Excited for what we're gonna see I'm only four episodes into this show. We've got six more episodes to go
[01:22:14] So nowhere near its heights just yes as far as I can see but it's ramping up every week So definitely one of my definitely very happy to be covering this one Chris. What do you think? No, we're all
[01:22:26] Say good. Yeah, the wunderbar and everything else in between I'll save you my terrible German accent Again if anyone has access a lot of Just from the old 70s. It's so good BBC comedy if you want British humor
[01:22:43] Okay, that's where my accents German and French do not listen to a word he's saying fellow fellow dreadful people Yes, and that is my terrible German accent. That is the end of it
[01:22:57] I swear no to talk about this episode really it was a tough one at certain parts and I Was probably more down on parts of it last episode then
[01:23:13] As I come in so it's kind of like I'm finding that there are highs and lows to this up each episode and The highs for the season are out performing the lows and they're not terrible those
[01:23:27] They're just for me potentially. Oh, I wish they had it done it this way. I'm not the writer I'm not the director. I should sit back more and I think that's what I'm starting to do now Which is no no no this is there?
[01:23:39] This is their one this is This was written by John Logan and this is I and I should respect what he the story he wants to tell at the pace he wants to tell it because
[01:23:53] Previous knowledge dictates. He's good at what he does and he's gonna tell a good story as how he does it So I yeah, I'm now accepted that and I'm sitting back and I'm Sitting with my beer stein and in my gazebo singing some German stein
[01:24:13] Hall songs, I think the Steinhall songs Absolutely, you know, I know I know we've been saying that as well John Logan will tell his story at his base But I don't think I was expecting an episode that was crammed with as much as this episode
[01:24:31] This quickly I suppose it felt like so much was going on here As well for me. So really good really good Let's get on to our feedback section penny for your thoughts if you have any thoughts on the podcast or on
[01:24:43] Penny dreadful city of angels emailed into us at feedback at TV podcast industries calm or come join us over now Facebook group at Facebook calm slash groups slash TV podcast industries or why not go over to us on Twitter at TV pod industries
[01:24:58] Been live tweeting the episodes each week With the weirdness of the release for Penny dreadful city of angels, I'm not too sure whether I'm gonna be live tweeting it in future They released the episode on showtime.com
[01:25:09] First thing I think almost 24 hours before it goes on air, which I think is really weird to do and then when it goes live Most people already seen the episode so and it's also not a very
[01:25:19] So it's like Netflix where it goes specifically at like 9 a.m. We're 9 p.m. 12 days like we have a large window because it hasn't gone exactly at the specific time you start
[01:25:32] Well, I think what seems to have happened is it goes live on the channel at 10 p.m. And I think they said to their tech guys, okay one minute past midnight on Sunday night You need to release the episode on our on-demand platform
[01:25:43] So the people who've watched the episode on TV can then watch it on demand I think what happened is the tech team went they said one minute past midnight and Sunday
[01:25:51] Do they mean Sunday 12 o 1 a.m. Or do they mean Monday 12 o 1 a.m. I think they've just coded it wrong So I think that's all that's happened It suddenly gets released then sometime in the middle of the day they go it's out right now
[01:26:04] But it's always been out for four or five hours before they do that Okay, I just keep every time they go it's out right now That's what I think they're releasing it and I'm like or like that hour
[01:26:14] And I'm like it's just a week like because that's that that tweet has always been at a very different time And our is that people already talk about the episode Okay, yeah But there you go. So it may not be live tweeting again
[01:26:27] But if I am follow us over on the on TV pod industries over at Twitter Yes, first up we have an email from James Pekin isco who emailed us again with his Pasadena connections Based on last week's episode episode three
[01:26:42] He had this to say thanks for reading my notes guys. No special nuggets this week other than saying love this episode The dance scenes were fantastic Nathan Lane kicking the Out of the kid was a little cathartic to myself
[01:27:00] quarantined mind for some reason and he really pulled off being tough The Santa Monica pier does have a ferris wheel and a roller coaster But the close-up shots of Tiago Molly on the pier were actually shot about 15 miles south at the Redondo Beach
[01:27:17] Pier and that big white building shown from outside that the councilman exercises in is actually City Hall of Los Angeles dedicated in 1928 we love the podcast. Thanks so much one file mention high school musical for the dancing with demons
[01:27:37] Thank you so much Jim for it's writing into us and yes, I used to go forward dancing with demons I love it. It is peak perfection. Yes Thank you Jim for bringing high school musical back to Chris We will have the unholy trinity of high school musical
[01:28:01] German accents and off-key singing This is our own penny dreadful I'm in my nightmare And we'll probably we'll probably record it live as well so I can't even add it or just to be in my real nightmares
[01:28:17] If anyone wants to write a screenplay for a high school musical for Dancing with German demons I will read your script Just for the crack Because I could be Zac Efron who all face painted red Dancing in a German accent
[01:28:39] Oh, no, oh no, thanks very much for that Jim. Yeah, thanks so much Jim Our next piece of feedback comes from former co-host of this podcast, right? You might be asked back, right?
[01:28:54] He is also the host of the internet the Moon Knight podcast and he has some thoughts about episode three over on our Facebook group He says I've just caught up with episode two and three and wow what a joy to jump back into the city of angels
[01:29:06] First off, I loved the dance routine between Mateo and Rio yet another character by Natalie dormer Not usually into dance numbers But the classic style and the energy was intoxicating Molly and Tiago were great development How cruel is Molly's mother taunting her with Popeyes theme?
[01:29:21] Incredible Nathan Lane as Lewis is just downright remarkable and I find myself hanging on his every word His old-school sensibility is just so charming Finally the unintentionally funny moment for me was seeing Molly's bodyguard trail both her and Tiago with a stick of fairy floss in hand
[01:29:38] Hoping I can watch the subsequent episodes promptly in order to give timely feedback keep up the good work guys Fairy floss in Australia. Yeah candy floss over here. Yeah candy floss I think it's candy floss in America as well, but very fast that makes sense. I literally didn't
[01:29:53] Candy floss very okay makes more sense now. Thank you. There you go Yeah, yeah, thanks, Ronaldo. I think yeah, Nathan Lane's been Really really good and I think as Jim mentioned, you know this
[01:30:07] If you've not seen him on Broadway doing serious stuff, I suppose this is many people's first kind of Sort of exposure and he is he just has a great old-school sensibility as you say and I love
[01:30:21] I love what he's doing. I think as well in this episode with Benny Berman It's just really pitched Absolutely perfectly by Nathan Lane For sure. Yeah, and mr. Lane if you want to come on our podcast
[01:30:37] Obviously, we know you're at home in New York at this point in time doing nothing in quarantine Actually, not just mr. Lane If any of the actors of Penny Dreadful if you know them and you want to get them just to come on down
[01:30:50] Give us a quick interview. Sure. Why not? Yeah, thanks so much Ronaldo and for sure it's really great to get your thoughts on City of Angels and yeah, hopefully that'd be pretty awesome if we got Nathan Lane onto the podcast for a little interviewee
[01:31:10] Element here. I think that would be pretty cool. So Chris prepare the email and We also have a voicemail and just a quick reminder for everyone if you want to hear your voice on the podcast Your dulcet tones as it were in the same way
[01:31:25] I believe there were some dulcet tones on episode 3 of City of Angels You can record a clip of yourself on your phone and email it to us Or you can go to our website at TV podcast industries calm and record 90 seconds of your thoughts
[01:31:42] About the week's episode we'd love to hear from everyone but we do have our Regular reoccurring voicemail guest in Steve Brown It's great to get your voicemail in Steve. Let's keep it a listen. Hey guys, it's Steve This is for episode 4
[01:32:04] Yosafina and is it episode 4? Yeah, Yosafina and the Holy Spirit Wow this Episode was really really good and I don't know if I'm gonna chance to watch it again Before you guys record. So that's why I'm sending this out on Sunday night, but Wow, man, I am just
[01:32:27] There's just there's so much stuff in this in this one that Surprised me and so I want to pick three moments off the top my head that I really thought were really really good We've been looking forward to Riley kind of getting his comeuppance, but
[01:32:46] Wow, that was brutal. That was graphic. I did not expect that Mateo that that level of psychopathy from him and Then of course we see the Natalie Natalie Dormer the Elsa scene with with Peter Kraft in his house and
[01:33:12] That was just it was kind of heartbreaking on one hand, but we knew it was coming that he was gonna They were gonna have that that moment that trist and I loved her meeting with the wife and the wife saying that she wouldn't be
[01:33:25] the other woman or however Piper paraboo said it and Just yeah, so many good so much good stuff In this episode, it's hard to pick just three, but I will pick just the third one
[01:33:40] Which is I'm really really glad that we see Tiago and Molly there at the end Washing dishes together Seemingly like they're kind of back together like he's kind of accepted the fact that that she's flawed that she's not evil
[01:33:55] She's just flawed and that makes her a great character So I can't wait to hear your guys's discussion of this this episode because there was so much in it And I can't wait to hear what you guys thought talk to you later. Thanks so much Steve
[01:34:09] Steve also added I totally forgot my voicemail to mention the shoulder block that Elsa gives to Kraft's wife Perfectly played by Natalie Dormer and Piper paraboo Yeah, really good. I didn't think it was so much a shoulder block
[01:34:25] I actually thought Piper parado or Linda Kraft. I actually think she did do You know that NFL shoulder barge on us so and but yeah Elsa certainly stood up And I think Piper paraboo. Yeah, that's what a great role I say Queen B and stings Although probably
[01:34:49] Natalie Dormer will stinger back even worse I'm really good to hear from you Steve and definitely this is a wow episode There are so many moments here that make you pause for thought think about what's possible coming up shock you challenge you and
[01:35:08] Make you kind of go a little gooey inside And you know, I think it's really good By gooey inside. I meant Tiago and Molly at the end where it's like And then there's like the holding on for dear life as Matteo is yeah
[01:35:26] Psychoing it to the max and yeah, you're kind of Elsa and Peter going If only Linda could see you now. She would crucify you. Yeah, absolutely So from one gooey moment to the other let's move on to something less gooey and more liquid
[01:35:45] I do believe it's time to go to the old beer hall and Down to penny dreadful pub quiz. Yeah, welcome fellow dreadfuls to the penny dreadful dreadful pub quiz Grab a steiner of beer and of course head on over to the Crimson cat
[01:36:06] Winking for this week's pub quiz there. I say it and remember you can send in your Answer to this episode episode falls question by email to feedback at TV podcast industries calm and of course we will have and some penny dreadful
[01:36:26] goodies for the winner of the pub quiz remember point per question unless otherwise stated by myself Of course, so the question for episode four Josephine and the Holy Spirit Just between us girls what drink does Linda craft quaff during her son's birthday party?
[01:36:53] Excellent, and you know we have a nail got a reputation of asking a question and then it being fully laid out in the next episode so So this may be fully laid out next episode John gives the question what the wartime well penny dreadfuls Just between us girls
[01:37:09] What drink does Linda craft quaff during her son's birthday party? Mm-hmm. Yes, and if you've been listening to our podcast for a fair few of our episodes You will know that I have said that this is one of my favorite cocktails. There you go
[01:37:26] Nice hint Chris. Yes. Good hint. Thanks so much for the pub quiz question John Hopefully we'll get some loads of entries for this one for the penny dreadful pub quiz exactly whether Linda was quaffing it to sort of dull the sound of kids or whether she was
[01:37:44] Just doing it to dull the sound of singing Nazis in her back garden Who knows or maybe the local gossip from the Pasadena area, but certainly She does like this drink a lot. Definitely. I do love that moment as Elsa arrives at Frank and goes to dr. Craft
[01:38:03] I need to meet your wife and he just has this look Reconnors does this look where he looks around the entire area going I have no idea where that woman is
[01:38:14] Thanks so much for joining us fellow buddy faithful. Thanks. It's been really good having you on board for this season Please stay in contact with us and tell us your feedback as you go through the episode
[01:38:23] Hope you stay subscribed to the podcast if you enjoy what you hear Why not share with your friends or leave us a review over on iTunes
[01:38:29] Can leave us a five star review and your thoughts about what we're doing right hopefully or email us or tell us what we're doing wrong We might change it in future. Yes, we've done nothing wrong. Have we
[01:38:44] And as I mentioned before you can also join us over in patreon if you want to hear our thoughts about Captain America winter soldier We should be releasing that over the next couple of weeks as well
[01:38:51] We'll be back next week with penning dreadful city of angels episode 5 children of the Royal Sun which comes out on May 24th Yes, thank you so much and I will end by saying I'll be doing saying goodbye I Know I can't remember the was it goodbye
[01:39:08] What you can't remember the tune or lyrics to a song You Yeah, goodbye. Oh my goodness. I think my e-drons have just blown or you have just smashed a glass as I said You would I'm just couch them out either way. We're just staying in goodbye Yeah
[01:39:33] Well fellow dreadfuls, it's a pleasure Speaking with you and indeed maybe even sharing in your pain at such musical renditions that Chris Will provide on the dreadful podcast but remember keep high-diving keep high-diving and above all else keep high-diving Bye