Penny Dreadful City of Angels Episode 6 "How it is with Brothers" Podcast

[00:00:00] This is the Dreadful Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We're watching Penny Dreadful, City of Angels, Episode 6, How It Is Rip Brothers.

[00:00:08] You know how this works.

[00:00:10] How it works is I give you two straight arrows first shot because that's the kind of world

[00:00:16] I wish we lived in.

[00:00:18] Then like countless well-meaning precinct captains before me, I give in to reality.

[00:00:25] Murphy's drunk in reality.

[00:00:27] How it works is you find me a patsy to take the hazlet wrap like I told you to do and Riley never gets killed and that poor dumb kid never winds up in the cooler in the first place.

[00:00:37] But you didn't do that, did you?

[00:00:39] So now we've got another problem.

[00:00:41] It just has to get solved one way or another because that's just how it works.

[00:00:46] Fine. We'll solve it.

[00:00:49] Welcome back fellow Penny faithful. This is TV Podcast Industries.

[00:01:13] We're here to talk about Penny Dreadful, City of Angels, Episode 6, How It Is Rip Brothers.

[00:01:17] I'm one of your hosts, Derek.

[00:01:19] Hello there fellow Dreadfuls. I'm one of your other hosts, John.

[00:01:23] And Riley at this trio. I'm Chris.

[00:01:25] How you doing guys? Nice to have you back.

[00:01:28] Yeah. Yeah. It's a time in the world. It really is.

[00:01:35] Yes. It feels weird that we're covering something that has a lot of racism built into the dynamics of the society of 1930s, late 1930s LA.

[00:01:49] And we have what's happening on our TV screens once we turn off City of Angels and we turn on the news and we have I suppose what happens when you don't address it really.

[00:02:04] And it's a little strange for I think for me, certainly at least to see what's happening in America for sure.

[00:02:14] Definitely. Definitely. We've dealt with challenging shows before. I think a big example of that would be Watchmen.

[00:02:20] It'd be quite a challenging show that we've covered before.

[00:02:22] I think just the timing of this one happening on a week of six days really where there's so much going on in the US,

[00:02:30] very much related to the concepts that are in the show. Like I think John Logan mentioned this show as a reflection of what's going on in society in 2019 when he wrote the show.

[00:02:38] But you know, there couldn't be a more relevant piece of entertainment on television I suppose this weekend than Pangerette for City of Angels, I think.

[00:02:46] Yeah and I think just the opening of our podcast with the conversation held by Captain van der Hoff.

[00:02:54] I think it's really pertinent, this idea of the just I suppose it's difficult enough to say but how police maybe have always looked for that patsey and the racism that can underpin it or the bias

[00:03:14] in people even if they don't mean to be racist.

[00:03:22] It's tough. We are not American. We have American friends, we have family in America.

[00:03:30] We are three Caucasian men from a race perspective and it is sometimes I don't mean we don't mean I don't mean this per I can't speak for you too so I will speak for myself I don't mean this as a platitude.

[00:03:46] I don't mean this as anything. I am watching. I have been in contact with a lot of my friends and just been constantly checking in because this is so close and it is also coming at a time where the world is from emotional perspective, the world is burning already from corona.

[00:04:08] We have been locked indoors emotions or tensions are high and it gets worse but from my own personal perspective. I believe I speak for the three of us. We are completely against racism we are 100% for inclusion.

[00:04:27] We believe and stand with every black American person around the world employee of the Penny Dreadful City of Angels of every podcast we listen to or TV show we've covered.

[00:04:42] Every film, the storytellers, the writers, the art directors, the costume anyone and to be fair even the whole entire black community.

[00:04:52] We are there we will unite and listen to you and speak out when we can and when the opportunity arises.

[00:05:01] We are three podcasters from Ireland and is not about a platform or soapbox to for us to give our views this is just it is the world is on fire from a medical perspective and now from a emotional partnership

[00:05:21] and relationship perspective.

[00:05:23] And I really hope in the same way that we're seeing so much footage from the US of what's been going on the last six days of everything that's led to the riots and everything that's led to the protests has been going on.

[00:05:34] I really do hope that what's been done around the world a lot of marches and solidarity that happened in Ireland or happening in New Zealand,

[00:05:41] a lot of other countries around the world who are very supportive of everybody that's affected by this in America, you know that the only message we can really say is just stay safe.

[00:05:50] You know, yeah, yeah, that's the biggest one.

[00:05:53] And if you do need to go out and protest and show your your solidarity please wear a mask.

[00:06:00] Yeah, yes.

[00:06:01] Just remember that Corona is still out there. It is still a massive medical issue pandemic worldwide so stay safe in all senses of the world.

[00:06:11] Absolutely. And I think as well we also we also realize that this is obviously happening in the US but that every country, Ireland included needs to reflect on how they treat people of color.

[00:06:27] I think that's really important.

[00:06:29] And to recognize that even if we feel that we're not racist, and that there are biases that can influence and we need to be open and mindful of that and to talk about it so that we can progress this for sure.

[00:06:47] And from my side as well one of the things I believe or my view is that when you allow lies to dare I say it trump the truth.

[00:07:00] And then you're in, in the words of Lewis Meachner, the detective of city of angels, you have shit that begets shit that begets shit.

[00:07:12] And we're in a whole pile of shit at the moment.

[00:07:16] Yes, but we have now come together in the solidarity and we have talked about the hurt so let's talk about something nice.

[00:07:24] Let's talk about what binds us and our listeners which is talking about these TV shows that we cover.

[00:07:30] Of course if you want to, we are all in the group on Facebook, we're on Twitter if you want to discuss and you just want to chat to us about anything.

[00:07:39] Any of our listeners, we're always there.

[00:07:42] We're always there.

[00:07:43] We are a community it's not a platitude.

[00:07:45] We are there for each other so if you want to talk about anything come talk to us.

[00:07:50] And if you want to email us directly you can email us at feedback at TV podcast industries I always pick up those emails so pop them on.

[00:07:57] Season night out as well.

[00:07:58] So anytime.

[00:07:59] I never saw me.

[00:08:00] That's great.

[00:08:01] Exactly.

[00:08:02] Exactly.

[00:08:03] I know we've talked about this but I'm sure you guys probably felt the same as I did this.

[00:08:09] It did affect my watching of the episode.

[00:08:11] I felt this is probably a bit more uncomfortable to watch this episode than they could have even imagined I think so we'll probably refer to a couple of things as we go through the episode as well.

[00:08:21] But yeah, let's get into the actual.

[00:08:23] It's a strange thing where art imitates life.

[00:08:27] But I have to.

[00:08:28] I have to think.

[00:08:29] Yeah, but I have to think John Logan knew that this has happened recently enough in American history as well.

[00:08:36] This isn't something that is just confined to the 1930s so I'm sure he was aware that this is going to be a very sensitive topic because it's something that has happened reasonably regularly unfortunately and very sadly.

[00:08:49] I am not going to lie.

[00:08:50] I haven't said this to you before but I was literally considering skipping this episode because I was just like okay, I don't know if I have the mental fortitude to discuss this with a concise and non-verbal scream slash profanity induced

[00:09:16] or tirades sometimes.

[00:09:18] But I will do I have since my watch I have taken a few deep breaths.

[00:09:24] I don't believe in that mindfulness craziness but it's great to do works for everyone.

[00:09:29] Mindfulness is the worst for some words for others.

[00:09:31] It does work for me.

[00:09:33] So I went outside.

[00:09:34] I took a couple deep breaths.

[00:09:36] I read a comic book, a quick 30 something pager and then I came back to this.

[00:09:40] So let's get into it.

[00:09:42] Absolutely.

[00:09:43] Yeah, let's get some nice thoughts to begin with.

[00:09:45] Yes.

[00:09:46] So we do have a review that came into us over on iTunes once again.

[00:09:49] Thanks again for every this beginning of reviews over on iTunes.

[00:09:52] It's something that we never ask for for people to actually give us reviews.

[00:09:56] You've been going for 496 episodes and for our main podcast, the one that's had all 496 episodes, I think we have five reviews because we very rarely actually ask for.

[00:10:07] We do occasionally ask for them but very rarely.

[00:10:09] So it's absolutely lovely that we get some reviews in to us.

[00:10:13] And we always say, share the love, share the podcast.

[00:10:16] That's a different thing.

[00:10:17] Raiders leave us a review.

[00:10:20] I don't normally say that.

[00:10:22] You might say that but we did get a brand new review over on Apple podcasts from a titled A New Listener for America Now A Big Time Fan by Pool Player 937.

[00:10:31] It says I'm fairly new to 2V podcast industries but I've recently started seeking out podcasts for currently airing shows so that I watch to supplement my interests.

[00:10:39] I started this podcast after the third episode this season and haven't looked back.

[00:10:43] When I first saw the length of the podcast, I couldn't imagine how they could fill it with insightful takes but these guys deliver each and every week leaving me excited for the next episode.

[00:10:51] Also, maybe I could be drawn in because Ancestry.com says I'm 22% Irish.

[00:10:56] Excellent stuff.

[00:10:58] That's great.

[00:10:59] Yeah.

[00:11:00] Great. Thanks, Pool Player 937.

[00:11:02] Glad you're enjoying our relatively long takes for TV shows.

[00:11:07] I think even by our standards, this is longer than average.

[00:11:11] Normally we're on the hour mark so yeah, we've been doing a few 90 minutes recently but it is one of these things that when we were doing the recap of the first season of or the first three seasons of Penny Dreadful, the original three,

[00:11:27] they are kind of so layered and textured with detail and the writing is so good and the acting performances are so good that you have so much to talk about, whether you like it or not.

[00:11:42] You know, I think that is one of the occupational hazards for Penny Dreadful.

[00:11:49] Yeah. Thank you so much, buddy for the review.

[00:11:53] Just as the guys say sometimes I can't even imagine how we've gone and talked for 90 plus minutes sometimes.

[00:12:00] Not gonna lie once we spoke for two and a bit hours and it was Derek's job to then get that down to 90 minutes.

[00:12:07] That was the difficult part.

[00:12:08] Yeah, that certainly was.

[00:12:09] That took me two days.

[00:12:10] So don't do that today.

[00:12:12] We're going to keep it concise today.

[00:12:14] Absolutely.

[00:12:15] We also, as John mentioned, we do like if you could share episodes on social media and share also on social media as well.

[00:12:21] So we also got a kind of review or a recommendation from Anitra Leira over on Twitter who said I enjoyed the TV podcast Industries cover of Watchmen.

[00:12:30] The British perspective was interesting and they gave a lot of info from the original texts.

[00:12:34] And of course, the official podcast that they were in love did set up the center around the creative team around women and people of color which affected the show profoundly

[00:12:42] and TV podcast Industries after listening to your Watchmen podcasts all in one go almost.

[00:12:48] Sometimes you're overly confident predictions were wildly inaccurate but the accents made it charming how you made your mea culpa.

[00:12:54] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:12:55] There you go.

[00:12:56] I do love my wildly inaccurate predictions.

[00:13:00] Absolutely.

[00:13:01] I'm not gonna lie.

[00:13:02] It's one of the fun things.

[00:13:03] I can pull a lot of wild...

[00:13:06] And that's a very nice way of calling me and kind of saying that usually I am so wrong.

[00:13:14] So wrong.

[00:13:15] But I say with such conviction that you could think it was correct.

[00:13:21] Isn't there a saying around that?

[00:13:23] Potentially.

[00:13:24] Potentially.

[00:13:25] And I can't remember it.

[00:13:27] Yeah.

[00:13:28] Say it with confidence.

[00:13:30] About believing people of conviction.

[00:13:35] But yes.

[00:13:36] But we were very clear I think it's specifically during Watchmen because we knew how complex the comic book was and if the show was anything to go by,

[00:13:43] we kind of were pretty clear that if we did make a prediction, we kind of write it down so we could return to it as the show went on.

[00:13:49] And apologize when it was definitely confirmed to the know we definitely got quite a few things wrong in that.

[00:13:53] But hey, that's the fun of podcasting.

[00:13:55] Yeah.

[00:13:56] And the grand theories that are ultimately built on dust are great.

[00:14:01] And we have a lot of them here on the podcast.

[00:14:05] It's the fun of watching TV shows.

[00:14:06] Exactly.

[00:14:07] Yeah.

[00:14:08] Thanks again, Anitra Laira.

[00:14:09] That's really good to recommend TV pod industries.

[00:14:11] If you are over on Twitter, you can find us there at TV pod industries over on Twitter.

[00:14:15] Yes.

[00:14:16] Thank you so much, Anitra.

[00:14:18] We also have one tiny little favor to ask for all of our listeners.

[00:14:23] We don't ask much, but sometimes when we do, we would love the army of the industry, the industrials, the industrials.

[00:14:31] The industrial army, yes.

[00:14:32] The industrial army to rise up and to head over to BritishPodcastAwards.com slash vote.

[00:14:39] And maybe just kind of in the listener choice section, consider awarding your vote for TV podcast.

[00:14:48] It would be a lovely thank you.

[00:14:50] And we would really appreciate it.

[00:14:52] And it's a great way to show your love and for us to receive it in a way of an accolade through the British TV podcast.

[00:15:01] Very communist of you, Chris.

[00:15:03] Thank you.

[00:15:04] Mobilizing the workforce.

[00:15:05] Thank you.

[00:15:06] Exactly.

[00:15:07] We're the British Podcast Awards.

[00:15:08] Yes.

[00:15:09] BritishPodcastAwards.com slash vote.

[00:15:10] That's it, just enough just TV podcasts.

[00:15:12] So we will be up against every single sport podcast in the UK.

[00:15:16] The awards themselves are run by BBC Sands who do about 60 podcasts in the UK.

[00:15:21] So very unlikely that would be massively high up.

[00:15:24] But it would be lovely if you'd pop on over there and come on fellow podcast listeners.

[00:15:28] Let us beat the BBC into second place.

[00:15:30] I'm sure we can.

[00:15:31] Yeah.

[00:15:32] That would be amazing.

[00:15:35] Well, unlikely.

[00:15:37] Yes.

[00:15:38] Yes.

[00:15:39] Gentlemen, let's get into our discussion about petty dreadful city of angels episode six.

[00:15:42] How it is with brothers.

[00:15:43] Once again, the episode was directed by Roxanne Dawson.

[00:15:45] We spoke about her last week and done many, many great shows and was a great actress before starting on her path to direction.

[00:15:51] And this episode was once again not written by John Logan.

[00:15:54] It was written by Winnie Wilhelm and Vinnie Wilhelm.

[00:15:58] I love that name.

[00:15:59] Vinnie Wilhelm.

[00:16:00] Chris.

[00:16:01] Yeah.

[00:16:02] That's so good.

[00:16:03] I waited until now for a German accent.

[00:16:06] You know, that is a fab name.

[00:16:08] My apologies.

[00:16:09] That was that's obviously based on the two and a half years I just spent in Switzerland that I've just called him Vinnie Wilhelm.

[00:16:14] I'm not sure how that's how he would pronounce it.

[00:16:16] I should have checked that out.

[00:16:18] I think as English speakers, we would say Vinnie Wilhelm.

[00:16:23] Yes.

[00:16:24] And as German speakers speaking English, we would say Winnie Wilhelm.

[00:16:28] That's true.

[00:16:29] Yes, that's true.

[00:16:30] We'll put both in.

[00:16:31] Yeah.

[00:16:32] There we go.

[00:16:33] We've covered the bases.

[00:16:34] But this is Vinnie's first episode of petty dreadful.

[00:16:37] He has written episodes of Castle Rock and the Terror before one of the things that have been noticing on some of the online forums, places like Reddit and some of the places that are doing kind of reviews and chat about.

[00:16:46] Pity dreadful City of Angels.

[00:16:47] A lot of people are comparing this to the terror and the terror had a lot less supernatural elements to it, but was a very scary show.

[00:16:54] I know you watch the full first season of that.

[00:16:56] Really interesting show on AMC, I think in the US.

[00:17:00] Yeah, it was done by Scott Productions.

[00:17:02] So and of course, like it's such a great story.

[00:17:05] This idea of a ship called HMS Terror.

[00:17:08] I mean, like who calls a ship that that's like saying, look, here's my lovely child called Adolf or something like that.

[00:17:15] You just kind of don't, I suppose anymore.

[00:17:19] Yeah.

[00:17:20] Well, the Titanic calling a ship.

[00:17:23] We're about to launch McTitanic Titanic face or something like that.

[00:17:29] I certainly don't call it the unsinkable Titanic.

[00:17:32] That's a really bad idea.

[00:17:33] That's just asking.

[00:17:34] It was excellent.

[00:17:36] It's this whole idea of a boat and its crew trapped in the ice and just what that does to the crew, you know, the terror as much of the crew in that situation compared to let alone just the name of the ship.

[00:17:54] Well, Vinny worked over on that as well.

[00:17:56] So nice to have him on board for Penny Dreadful City of Angels Season 1.

[00:18:00] That's a maybe like if we get a second season of this show.

[00:18:03] But John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for the episode or their synopsis for the episode?

[00:18:08] Sure.

[00:18:09] Detectives Thiago Vega and Lewis Michener interrogate young Pachuco Diego, seeking a confession whilst Lewis senses Thiago is hiding something from him.

[00:18:19] Miss Adelaide warns Molly about her personal desires jeopardizing the temple's future.

[00:18:25] Town's End learns of Kurt's surprising past and Peter Kraft makes a dramatic decision about his marriage with Linda.

[00:18:33] Meanwhile, Maria tracks down Matteo and pleads with him to come home back to the family.

[00:18:39] Yes, back to his family.

[00:18:41] Yes, despite the assertion from Rio and Fly Rico that there is new family he does have to Vega family in the back pocket.

[00:18:48] Lots to talk about in this episode but predominantly this is the interrogation episode of the show.

[00:18:53] They have regularly done on the original series of Penny Dreadful you would have these episodes which are set up in one room with just a few characters.

[00:19:01] So this felt a little from that perspective a little bit like the original Penny Dreadful where you have three characters kind of holding everything together

[00:19:08] and I have to say just my own take on the episode the tension that is in there for this episode I think is really well balanced.

[00:19:14] It felt tense every moment that they left that room that clock was ticking going you only have five more minutes in there.

[00:19:20] Yeah, definitely 30 minutes 20 minutes 10 minutes in there to get this sorted so I felt that they were really did a great job with the tension in the episode.

[00:19:27] Yeah, big time.

[00:19:29] I think I thought it was just phenomenal actually.

[00:19:34] And I think that's my big moment because I think that final so yeah, I suppose my big moment is the mud hands the interrogation but I think more specifically it's that final moment of Lewis and with both Tiago previously and then finally with Diego were I think in his weary

[00:19:58] state and he does what has been asked of him by van der Hoff which is to get this patsy and he's also just being informed that is his partner is keeping secrets from him is lying to him.

[00:20:13] And I think that's the whole thing this interrogation builds slowly builds up that tension that runs through this episode and it culminates in this this last scene between Tiago Lewis and Diego which is phenomenal.

[00:20:32] And I love it. I mean, you were talking about the time element of you know van der Hoff saying well you've got 45 minutes and Lewis sits down right at the end in this scene and says to Diego you have 30 minutes until we can talk as much as you like but Murphy and his gang of his crew of cops and they're not going to talk

[00:20:56] they're going to be physical. And then after everything gives Diego five minutes to effectively think it over and confess. And I think additional to that time you just have the tension between I think multiple different tensions between the the cops led by Murphy and Tiago and

[00:21:22] Lewis as the detectives you have the tension between Tiago and Diego you know this the knowledge that Diego has that he knows Matteo is Tiago's brother Tiago knows he knows and he knows that the other people in in the room I Lewis don't know him don't know this.

[00:21:42] And and as such you have that tension then with Vega and Mitch and you know the secret the betrayal and ultimately then the resolve but you know you kind of get this Fisher between these two characters which coming off the back of Maria and Lewis's

[00:21:59] discussion in front of the Santa Muerte last week about how Mitch had given him the start here with Vega as a detective and that you know Maria being so thankful and yet then as Chris you pointed out Tiago kind of falls in last week's episode.

[00:22:18] And and he continues here I mean even just with the opening where you have it's been a long night as Mitch is having an early morning swig of whiskey but he allies immediately and to Lewis and saying that you know he doesn't know who this this fourth person is.

[00:22:38] Matteo and of course hanging over all of this and I suppose what gives the episode its title is the tension off screen or at least in different scenes between the two brothers of Tiago and Matteo and that that moment where Tiago comes clean to Lewis because Lewis has has understood what's going on in this interrogation.

[00:23:02] And like I love the fact that Nathan Lane plays its world weary but it's.

[00:23:07] World weary in the sense that he's perceptive he knows how the world works it's in the sense of it's not that he's not trying to change it but it's in the same senses with Van der Hoff.

[00:23:17] Where he says and you know there's reality and then there's reality I'm a good intention captain I want this to go like this but then I'm confronted with the reality and my boss wants the the patsy he wants this all done and you have.

[00:23:36] You know Lewis.

[00:23:39] He understands the world in which he lives as someone of Jewish heritage and knows that the cards are stacked and in a sense that delivery then to Diego.

[00:23:52] Is he knows he's stacking the cards in the same way as his done against him and it's really tragic it's it's really tragic because it you can see at the end and.

[00:24:03] You know when he says to Diego that's the smart play kid I mean it's a wonderful kind of monologue that.

[00:24:12] Lewis provides and acted by Nathan Lane and at the end of his that's the smart play kid you're doing the right thing and you just see Lewis's expression and he doesn't believe it but he also.

[00:24:28] Realizes where him and Tiago are he's trying to protect Tiago in some way but at the same time doesn't care about his brother and.

[00:24:40] Then is trying to get something for Van der Haal so like I just thought it was just massively and fantastic I loved how we've through and I think it was just a class and a class act from Nathan Lane here and with and also by Daniel Zavato as Tiago and you know playing Mr. angry

[00:25:08] They you know he can see he's caught between his job and his family but his family is always going to win out the anger of trying to get the confession at Diego and Diego then you know a Dan Russia and who plays Diego is just awesome as.

[00:25:27] You think he's going to break you really do and it has this kind of in was looking at side to him is looking down at the desk and then when he's left alone with Tiago you see this.

[00:25:40] Different side of him where he is effectively trying to call the shots art with Tiago and and the loyalty that he has to Rio fly Rico and Mateo in particular that he won't grass them up and.

[00:25:55] And then that kind of exasperation at the end and you know his journey in that interrogation room is up down up down up down and when he realizes actually what he's going to be allowed to do here by Lewis.

[00:26:10] Because he's no longer got the leverage of knowing Tiago secret and he knows that and also the wide eyes the fear of this the thought of being let in the same room on his own with Murphy.

[00:26:27] And and he the other cops who are effectively going to beat him I mean you hear that moment where Murphy says I'm leaving the teeth for a rise kid when you when he grows up.

[00:26:40] You know or the lack of creature whistling and just the beating that Murphy does to Tiago and then hearing them in the toilet is Tiago effectively decides okay I'm leaving the bullets in this gun because these guys are.

[00:26:57] Like.

[00:26:59] You know he realizes and Diego is in trouble.

[00:27:04] Yeah I definitely want to talk about that I'm gonna come back to that as well but I think.

[00:27:09] The moment I found really interesting in this whole scene with with Diego was when he realizes his way out you know this is the mud hand story this is what they do as a defense mechanism.

[00:27:19] He's looking for his way in he's looking for what his defense mechanism is going to be through at that initial interrogation that Tiago's doing and then the minute he learns that.

[00:27:28] Lewis doesn't know that it's his brother that nobody has turned in Mateo he knows his way out and from that point onwards I have to say in the in terms of interrogation scenes in terms of the techniques that are being used by Tiago to try and get this kid to admit to killing or being the only one that killed Riley which is what he wants out of him.

[00:27:45] All of the techniques he's using I'd be absolutely terrified in that room I give up everybody for it but because Diego had this piece of information nothing's gonna work on him from that point onwards you're not going to be intimidated at all because he knows.

[00:28:00] This guy Tiago is not gonna give up his brother he knows that this is what brothers do for each other they save each other so I thought it was really interesting but let's have a quick chat about that moment in the bathroom because I'm not sure how.

[00:28:11] It started and how it ended I'm not sure what the intention was because at the beginning you hear Diego say just give me your gun and I'll get my own way out of here.

[00:28:20] If you can't do anything I'll fight my own way out of here and that's I understand that's why Tiago is gonna take the bullets out is cause he's going okay does that mean he's saying he will give the gun to Diego and Diego will die in a hail of bullets and then it will all be sorted.

[00:28:34] Because he won't have any way of shooting anybody with a gun with no bullets in it yeah obviously the rest of the cops are gonna fire on and kill him so and then he puts the bullets back in.

[00:28:43] And when he goes back into the room and Lewis does and try and get the kids to give all the information up just before he gives it up.

[00:28:51] Diego pushes Diego onto the table and puts the gun to his head so is he going to actually kill him there before Lewis takes him out of the room is he actually again gonna say actually no I won't leave it to chance I'm gonna kill this kid so that.

[00:29:04] I think I think it's even push this fire like yeah I think it's a threat at least initially maybe he was going to kill him that's why he puts the bullets back in and I suppose this is one of the things it says is he going to.

[00:29:18] And go with Diego's plan and hopefully effectively from Tyago's point of view Diego gets killed or is it that he was just gonna scare him with the gun but he took out the bullets in case or that's how they were going to have the fight that but he didn't kind of move on to that because Lewis intervenes before hand.

[00:29:40] So I took it as he was going to let so the whole thing is when he he unclips it the gun in the whole story it's and it's visibly noticeable to the Diego.

[00:29:54] So that's the sign and Diego reaches for it so the whole thing was that he would have a gun and in his mind be able to escape with the gun.

[00:30:05] Yes the initial part in the thing is where Tiago is taking out the bullets was like I can't see fellow police officers die because of what I'm trying to get my brother out.

[00:30:19] So it would be to a degree he'll either get out or he'll go down and hail a bullet most likely the latter then based on what Murphy and the rest some say and as racist as they are.

[00:30:32] And as violent as they say they're going to be.

[00:30:36] I the pinata comment like there's certainly no yeah and there's certainly no moments when they're saying we're gonna beat the information out of them.

[00:30:45] They're saying how many times do you think we're gonna have to hit him before he explodes effectively before he's beaten to a pulp.

[00:30:52] There is no question that these guys are going to kill him in the pursuit or in under the explanation that they are interrogating.

[00:31:02] So then he puts the bullets back into the point of okay he can take a few of these guys out these guys are not fellow officers to me then he goes back into the room he's going along with the plan Diego he unclips it so that when he gets close Diego can grab it but then.

[00:31:21] Diego over steps in line because he is about to give up in that point and he's going too far and that's where.

[00:31:31] Tiago slips and go screw this I'll do it myself and kind of just throws the gun to his temple and in that instant I say he would have done it.

[00:31:44] He was that close you can see the shake and the way that Daniel Zavato portrays that point to be he's visibly like.

[00:31:54] Amped on adrenaline he's like it's fight or flight and in this case it was fight and it's only when as you said it's only because.

[00:32:03] Mitchner Nathan Lane is able to pull him into the corner and then out it's that is the saving grace if you will absolutely yeah.

[00:32:14] Absolutely and I feel like we've been waiting a lot of episodes this season for a big Tiago moment he's been the perspective of the audience a lot which we're following along with him throughout everything that's been going on and affecting his.

[00:32:27] Day to day life in the city of Angel I feel this was really his episode I think Daniel Zavato was really good in this episode and he conveyed everything that was going on but one final thing that I have on your point.

[00:32:40] That's right that's why we did it is the biggest point in the whole.

[00:32:45] I think we're all going to take parts of it absolutely but I loved that they called out that Tiago has a different read on why Mateo did what he did.

[00:32:56] I love that he has a really good explanation as to why he believes it's his own fault and not Riley's fault that Raleigh's dead.

[00:33:04] He believes that because he shot his other brother Raul and Mateo saw that and because Tiago is working for the police he's effectively punished in the police for what Tiago did.

[00:33:15] Not anything to do with Riley hasn't heard anything about the molestation that Riley put on his sister he still doesn't know any of that information Mateo hasn't said it.

[00:33:22] His sister Josephina swore him to secrecy to not tell Tiago about this so Tiago is going off this misunderstanding almost that his kid brother is so annoyed that he is joined the police force and.

[00:33:36] Shot at his brother because he's on the side of the police that he's willing to go and kill another officer at start a war with the police I think that's a really interesting twist on Tiago not much of a twist sorry just think it's interesting that he said it out loud that this is what he thinks is actually happening is blaming himself so much.

[00:33:50] But it feels it feels really right I mean that I think Tiago that desperation when he kind of pause all of that out to Lewis and he says you know so what are you going to do.

[00:34:03] And like just that desperation are you because he you know Lewis has just basically said well what about that kid he's good he couldn't have killed anyone and and you have but he's not.

[00:34:17] Family he's not my brother and and it you know he's not my family and and I love that Lewis says you know that's too easy.

[00:34:28] I think the two of them just play off so so so well and in in that corridor and and then to go in with that monologue from Lewis and I just thought was fabulous and.

[00:34:47] Get emotional just from the sound of it.

[00:34:49] Yeah no absolutely I mean I felt really kind of connected with this and I kind of was there with Lewis and where he talks about you know his father as a kid he talks about no more horses and yet poor folks will always be left with the shit and he connects with the chain of events and that van der Hoffers effects we just said about you know you had.

[00:35:14] Hazlitt that's a big pile you've got the riots and four dead cops eight dead Mexicans that's a big pile and then Riley a coughing you.

[00:35:26] In in this chair and beating on him again another pile and we get to that fantastic line of shit we get shit we get shit and now just look where we are but then he goes.

[00:35:37] But then he goes but you're playing like a gambler sitting on a full house now let me tell you what cards you're actually holding as fabulous and he just says you'll go to San Quentin.

[00:35:49] And you're either go as a rat or a goddamn hero and it's your choice and whichever choice you make I'll make sure that people know about it.

[00:35:59] It's terrifying this whole piece with van der Hoff and with Mitchner here like these are supposed to be the police in the city they're supposed to be our good guys almost because we've been following since the first episode.

[00:36:08] But what we have here is we have a kid who looks to be about 1718 very young into the Pichuco gang definitely and he's effectively going down for the murder of a family.

[00:36:19] And being told even though Mitchner is convinced this kid couldn't have murdered anybody.

[00:36:24] Even Riley even though he may have been in the in the place itself where Riley was killed Lewis is saying this guy didn't do anything.

[00:36:31] But now by the end of the episode he's taking credit for the murders of four people that has that's plus the murder of Riley.

[00:36:37] This is one of the really scary things that's come out over the last number of years and investigations in America these plea bargains have been going on for.

[00:36:46] Centuries almost a century now where something like 50% or 60% I'm going to get that percentage because it's very important I don't misquote this but a massive proportion of people who are arrested in the US.

[00:37:00] Take a plea deal without going to any kind of court case or any kind of investigation and end off going to prison for it because it's easier for the system.

[00:37:09] And that's what's happening right here.

[00:37:11] Lewis doesn't want his partner's brother arrested for the murder that he actually did commit so he found he's found a patsy here which will make it easier for the cops and calm down a violent on street altercation between the cops and the citizens of LA.

[00:37:24] That's what's happened here and that's what happens very regularly this is absolutely the most incendiary part of this episode and for me the most difficult part to watch was seeing Lewis who I really respect as a character in the show and the acting is fantastically portrayed but to me.

[00:37:38] I'm just seeing him look at this kid and go right let's just close the stand that's what captain wants it saves your brother I disagree I don't think he is nonchalantly doing that I think it's tearing him apart and I think that's what I mean at the end.

[00:37:51] It's the smart play because that gives you the best outcome you will be in prison but you won't be going to that gas chamber that effectively to our goes just frightened the crap out of him with with showing and but by going there now I will.

[00:38:09] You go as the hero that will be spread and it may be you get out and otherwise you're dead otherwise you'll be enough and you're dead otherwise.

[00:38:20] And you go as a rat and you're going to be dead in San Quentin and and you see the struggle that Lewis has with that I think that's what is so amazing about this is it someone who doesn't actually want to do this when he's weighing up the options this is unfortunately Diego's.

[00:38:39] Best outcome however crappy that really really is and that's what turns him up by having to do that and given that's why he's so aggressive towards Tiago because he has put him in that position to do that along with van der Hoff.

[00:38:56] That's the end of their partnership that's it this is it this is the break that you have because Tiago pushes Mitchner going you don't know what this is like you haven't lost anyone unbeknownst to Tiago the whole the two juke the two Jews who were killed by the Nazis.

[00:39:18] That's part of Mitchers life has not been shared and what we know about Mitchner is his honor is tied up in his personality is self worth your son is a good man he is a good officer.

[00:39:37] I that's why I chose my partner yeah that's why we are together he has my back I have here we are good police officers and in the space of what the show is less than 24 hours and but for us is two episodes we have seen the fall of both men now.

[00:39:55] The glass bastions of if you will good police officers in the LAPD at this time they are not racist they are the minority the Jew and the Mexican they are the last bastions of hope for those minority people or those minority.

[00:40:15] Communities and they have just sacrificed their honor.

[00:40:22] In the space of one hour in order to save Tiago's brother who we believe or they believe is worthy of saving yeah we now know he is not yeah yeah we like he is.

[00:40:39] He has decidedly stepped over that line definitely to the petugos and has stepped away from familiar like he is no longer family in the words of Vin Diesel you don't belong with your family.

[00:40:54] Fasten if you're is gone like that was a terrible again I know my accent so I'm trying to bring some levity to what is for me the hardest part of this which is those two were so good together.

[00:41:08] Yeah exactly like what we have seen is through a series of unfortunate events movie literally the destruction yeah yeah exactly and that's it like you know everybody feels that if there are people in these positions they're able to make different choices and save people the way that and do police work right and.

[00:41:28] Not go down the same path but as I said we had Van der Hoff going this is not the way it goes I was once an idealistic person that's why I gave you guys the chance but we're just gonna get in the same path we always got in.

[00:41:39] We're gonna send the Irish races cops in to beat this guy and kill him if you don't find.

[00:41:45] The if you don't find the murderer here that's basically I also think with Lewis the point is is that if.

[00:41:52] Immediately after.

[00:41:54] Or even at the time whilst they were investigating leading up to the flop house he had known if there had been honesty from Tiago this comes back to Chris's point from last week about Tiago slipping then.

[00:42:10] It was it who knows like that's why I like Lewis because he's kind of like he's kind of methodical and analytical and he may have just said let Diego go.

[00:42:20] Because he may not have he may have decided not even to bring back Diego to the precinct at the next day or after that long night and simply because well he's gonna he's gonna be.

[00:42:34] And may he's responsible he is gonna be this patsy but because of how it unfolded he is in that moment either is gonna have to say well Mateo is is the killer.

[00:42:48] Tiago and that will impact Tiago or Tiago is going to somehow kill or engineer the killing of Diego with him and so none of these outcomes for Diego are good now that he's in the precinct and.

[00:43:03] Yet it could have been different if Tiago had been being honest with him you know like Lewis screams at him you didn't tell me.

[00:43:16] And then says we go back in there and you don't say anything you've lost the right to be able to decide what happens and it is it's really tough and I think that's what it's so phenomenal I think that's why.

[00:43:28] As Christmas I was tearing up like it's just like it's a real sadness because Tiago as Chris is saying doesn't understand Lewis' struggle because of his culture as a Jew and in the 1930s in America and with what's happening in Europe.

[00:43:45] And so it is just like this will all get that our head a lot of us think it's kind of like around this time is World War two if you're not too close into history it's like the everyone always assumes the Jews were always persecuted and always.

[00:44:04] There's an assumption there like they were not considered vast minorities in the US until around World War two till things started getting very very bad.

[00:44:16] So.

[00:44:18] It's a tough one like here we see two as I had two minorities who are being sidelined and being.

[00:44:26] Being forced to decide about duty versus honor or family and versus honor.

[00:44:34] Yeah.

[00:44:36] It's weird because America was supposed to be different from the old world because because of the pogroms in Europe directed at the Jewish community in Europe way before 1930s Nazi Germany and what have you but that general pogroms against the Jewish people that the US was supposed to be different

[00:45:03] it was supposed to that's where the old world is left behind and and this this new world and yet everyone finds themselves in the same old.

[00:45:15] More 10 shit.

[00:45:18] Yes, like it did the systemic racism.

[00:45:22] Like is that John Logan is bringing to the forefront is like I'm gonna hand slide to Derek because one of his points or part of a partial element of his point does discuss how the racism is not just in the police force it is it is underlying in the Americas at this point in time.

[00:45:45] So.

[00:45:47] Yeah, I just I just found the scene with curse and councilman 10s and on the beach I found it a really another really affecting scene you know I'm.

[00:45:56] I find these things so difficult when they put on screen you know it's it's this thing we talked about last week where.

[00:46:01] Councilman 10s and is in a very happy place and we're starting to see him as a human we're starting to see him being.

[00:46:08] Understandable and relatable almost I was talking to this guy Kurt who we know is a member of the Gestapo but what this is what what we're seeing through Kurt story is the activation of an American you know it almost what we've seen with with terrorists around the world where.

[00:46:26] He is sitting in his hometown looking around speaking about the idea that this area should be a white only area why is somebody not speaking about this and then he reads my camp.

[00:46:36] Here's about the fewer moves to move to Berlin and says that's the place you want to live he joins the Nazi party becomes a member of the Gestapo and he says he's massively happy there and then then sell sent back to what he calls the filthy city of LA.

[00:46:50] It's absolutely horrible but it's effectively the story of what's happened with terrorists around the world and how they are.

[00:46:57] Incited by their connection to people that have the same beliefs as them they get sent away from they run away from their homes get all the training and then come back again to form.

[00:47:08] In cells are form terrorist organizations in their local community you know you can see Kurt he's a surfer guy in LA basically this is what we see from this intro to him in the episode.

[00:47:19] He's able to just blend in with the standard surfers in LA but on turds good looking sun blushed good in a pair of tight swimwear and surfing.

[00:47:30] Can blend in with anybody else part of his focus that he versus the surfing.

[00:47:37] You know what I mean and then he comes back to the beach and gives these absolutely abhorrent reasoning behind why he's back in this country doesn't even want to be here he wants to be back in Berlin with all the other.

[00:47:49] Right thinking people in his mind has been sent back here to.

[00:47:53] Seed all of this hatred amongst other people like him you know it's a really horrible situation and you know I'm questioning the rest of that conversation and I'm not too sure whether it was just that the writing I didn't feel was great between how that conversation continued because he ends up saying it's a filthy city hates it here it's full of people that he doesn't like the types of people who doesn't like.

[00:48:16] And that's the bit that turns in his offended pie it's not the fact that he's saying that he's against all of the other races that have moved to LA it's that he hates LA itself.

[00:48:27] And then saying to him well I love LA because I came here one way I came here wanted to be a dancer was told I was too fat for it and then I've now made myself into this very powerful figure here so.

[00:48:38] LA will it doesn't care who you are once you arrive here cares who you are what and what you make of yourself when you're in LA.

[00:48:47] Completely glossing over the fact that this guy is just said he's a Nazi and he doesn't want to be here he wants to get rid of all the other races you know.

[00:48:53] We know kenselman 10s and has no love for anybody who's not a white American we know that from the very first introduction of the character but it's just a weird conversation where is that the thing you took offense to he doesn't like your city.

[00:49:06] And not talking about town planning like yeah.

[00:49:10] Yeah because that was the bit that that stood in such dark contrast to me.

[00:49:15] I literally I was kind of whiplash by that really he just doesn't like a lane you hate that part and then that coupled with the rest of this episode from.

[00:49:28] Mexican and a kind of Jewish perspective and every other race that is mentioned by Kurt is like oh yeah.

[00:49:38] Racism was everywhere back then you were white you were right you were big you're powerful you had the privilege everyone else and there was no.

[00:49:50] It wasn't hidden or veiled it just sometimes wasn't discussed.

[00:49:55] Aside from the what was the cursatory kind of curse they weren't even use this curse words back then like the C word or the S word towards narratively discussing these races there was just a word used.

[00:50:13] It was just so systemic back then it was accepted and that was the bit because it's like I don't care what you're talking about all these other Americans who people who born here or just because they're racist like different.

[00:50:30] It's the don't say anything bad about my city because the city is where I love that's the crazy part.

[00:50:38] And once again because there's always got to be a contradiction in these types of speeches in the show you hear what what he's saying here you hear what what.

[00:50:47] What curse is saying to Tencent I didn't like the people were coming here taking our jobs the kind of basic way that people were coming to our town which is a white only 10 living here where I don't want them to live.

[00:51:00] So I moved to Berlin yeah exactly I moved to Germany I moved to another country and started taking on the ideals of people that I found there and now I'm bringing them back to America so I don't like immigrants so I became an immigrant myself left the country and then came back again.

[00:51:14] That's that that's the other weird thing isn't it on the immigration issue is that and you know a son who moved to Ireland and I have been sat in in the back of taxes were the.

[00:51:28] It's not slight on taxi drivers but some have kind of given out about not about me or not person who is white and who has immigrated but a person who has come from and has color on this game and kind of like it's a very.

[00:51:44] Tricky kind of conversation to be listening to and having to respond to to that in a sense but it's like I think that's the thing is here is that.

[00:51:55] Here it is two white people and I think that's the thing with towns and response is the implicit within everything he says even though it actually sounds really progressive and libertarian and that this city you can be who you want to be.

[00:52:09] As long as you make it effectively that it's not about race and not about color it's about whether you've got the chops to move up the the pecking order or make the best of your life as you can that's almost seems like what he's saying.

[00:52:22] But implicit within everything that he's saying is that but it excludes anyone who isn't white and unless they're really really famous but even then it's grudgingly held so that's that I think that's where.

[00:52:35] It's because actually.

[00:52:38] That they're two white people talking about it with a very overt bias in Kurt to the point where he's joined the Gestapo but I think with towns and it's more introspective and maybe unconscious bias elements of it and all unconscious bait racism that he doesn't see it as an issue because everyone else who he works with is that.

[00:53:03] The only thing I was wondering on this which I found fascinating is is this a chink because as I say for me when towns and talked about it I just thought okay that's quite progressive towns and in the sense of you can be who you want to be.

[00:53:19] If you take it in the all encompassing way and then I just wonder is this a chink to allow him to move beyond his racism and his racial bias within the story.

[00:53:31] Is it an avenue for the writers to kind of say where he actually does begin to reassess his views I don't know maybe not but I just wondered because of how he responded to Kurt.

[00:53:43] I still think there was an underlying racism element.

[00:53:48] It's the funny part about this is these two men are gay.

[00:53:52] Well that's the other thing exactly.

[00:53:54] That is out in that hated in America at this point and in Germany at this point like it soon would be illegal in Germany within a couple of years.

[00:54:05] It's the contradictions absolutely.

[00:54:06] It's the contradictions is it so but also towns and is starting more to accept that is he is becoming.

[00:54:15] He he's becoming more accepting of this half of himself maybe so it could be as John says the first steps towards redemption if you will but I wouldn't be too sure.

[00:54:32] It feels like it's he's accepting his lover's point of view.

[00:54:37] Yes exactly the adductionation as you said yeah as I mentioned last week you know I did feel like there was a point in episode five where it felt like.

[00:54:47] Cancer 10s and was kind of going maybe I can maybe I can live my life like this maybe I can come out and maybe I can be the first gay mayor of LA and then he was put back in his box by Alex pretty quickly Kurt sent over to the house or Kurt over in the house that night to keep rain and back in again you know let's get you back to normal here made kind of thing.

[00:55:06] Again I think there is still a question over whether Kurt's gay or not because this seems to be his mission so make sure that we're that we're clear that we are not even sure if Kurt is gay or whether this is all an act you know.

[00:55:17] But they're definitely definitely manipulating Captain's end into what they want them to do want him to do and he's not questioning what I would have thought he would be questioning out of this they're planted all this information all these seeds in his mind pretty well.

[00:55:30] Yeah okay so we very much discussed part one of this that the mudhends interrogation and the suing tragedy that comes from it so we'll move on to if you don't mind my point which is faith versus love.

[00:55:45] Yeah.

[00:55:46] And how that theme plays in two major parts of this so the first is Mateo.

[00:55:52] It's the faith in the Pachucos versus the Lova family.

[00:55:56] So his faith in that the Pachucos are stereo we're staring him right and they want what's best for him versus the love of his family and what they want of him.

[00:56:08] And it's interesting we get vague Mrs. Mamie Vega like kind of coming up to the Pachucos floppy like to get Mateo.

[00:56:18] Yes we do.

[00:56:19] And him base decidedly siding with the Pachucos and Rio and I am one of them now I'm not a Vega.

[00:56:28] So as an aside very very quickly that split second where Maria Vega looks at Rio.

[00:56:35] Yeah like there was just turns around and stares deeply at Rio does she know that's my.

[00:56:42] We discussed this could this could she be seen through the guys that is Rio.

[00:56:48] I wanted more out of that.

[00:56:50] I think the scene and I'm sure I'm not going to go into it myself because I know you definitely loved it as well that the scene itself I think is really really good.

[00:56:59] I absolutely love how the scene itself has played from a penny dreadful point of view.

[00:57:05] I really wanted there to be something like the only reason that Maria found the places because she once again channeled Santa Marta or maybe she is actually the embodiment of Santa Marta because that's that's what I'm talking about.

[00:57:18] That's why she's been getting so much that she wants from Santa Marta and if that's the case there is only been one Magda one version of Magda that she's met in the city of of LA and that is Rio.

[00:57:31] She's not met any of the other versions we noted that she was at the party for the kids at Dr. Kraft's house but never once was she involved enough to have met Elsa.

[00:57:44] And those scenes there's no reason that she could have met.

[00:57:47] And I can't the Tenzins Alex version of Magda so this is a scene where we have the person that's channeling Santa Marta meeting one of the Magdas here and I don't know at all.

[00:57:59] I thought there was going to be some kind of sparks flying between the two of them.

[00:58:03] I thought there was going to be much more of a push potentially from Rio to say you're not allowed here old woman or something more from it but it just felt like Rio was just Rio of the Patukos and Maria was just the mother of Mateo who knew where they were.

[00:58:20] I just wanted that flash so when when Manavigha turned around and looked at her in that mid conversation.

[00:58:28] I wanted there to be just that kind of very much TV flickery of Rio turns back to my that goes back to Rio.

[00:58:38] That would have been great actually because that then so and I mean and we'll discuss this more in a second.

[00:58:45] At the moment the only penny dreadful supernatural element of this so far has been the very kind of first episode.

[00:58:54] It's not it's not as prevalent in this as I would have hoped like aside from my just being three different people like you could say it was almost triplets.

[00:59:06] Like this is the triplets. This is the Magda slash Santa Muerte family kind of and although they it's three triplets versus Santa Muerte and they're just sewing to see to see like it's not super supernatural.

[00:59:22] I would argue that with the first three seasons the supernatural was the overarching element in the background of the eight episode first season 10 episodes second season.

[00:59:30] Episode third season that was the overarching nine episode third season always forget that it was the overarching background element to us but most people acted like we're in the Victorian era.

[00:59:40] This is how we act in the Victorian era and so I do understand what you mean but I don't I think the supernatural element in a way is actually more prevalent because in every other episode and that was my point which I will talk about in a second.

[00:59:54] But in every other episode we have had the character of Magda performing her supernatural act of hiding in plain sight and whispering in people's ears throughout the season so far.

[01:00:04] So I do actually think it's almost a little bit more prevalent in this season.

[01:00:09] I think yeah yeah I mean I thought I would like Chris it would have been nice to have had that recognition I think this idea of like.

[01:00:18] Maria could see beneath Rio and also you just got kind of got that phase in and out of Magda appearing and it unsettles Maria and then maybe you know next episode we get to learn more where she's definitely.

[01:00:34] Praying a little cotton socks off to Santa water and to make sure that her son her youngest son is going to be safe so I think I would have liked something like that for sure.

[01:00:46] It's actually looking at the scene itself the moment itself where she looks at Rio she gives the same look to fly Rico so it's more what have you done to my boy that he's here that's kind of what the look means it didn't look like a moment of recognition from Maria to.

[01:00:59] Really my dad look like a moment of who are you two people that are still in the boy away but yeah no exactly but I think as well just in that scene I thought it was like really just really really good and really heartbreaking and yeah I was just like going.

[01:01:16] Mateo when he goes she's right you're not welcome here just thought I can't believe he just said that to Maria Vega to his own mother and it really was heartbreaking and I like to your point Chris this idea and belief.

[01:01:35] In one thing or the other in this case it's the faith in the petuco is that this is only how he can move forward and rather than hit the love and the faith of his own family and we see him really.

[01:01:50] Taking a pretty deciding line here and.

[01:01:56] Of course yeah that has implications as well to how Tiago has been thinking and this this whole thing is played out yes and it has consequences on that side as well absolutely.

[01:02:09] I thought it like I said it's this this faith versus love.

[01:02:15] Theme is starting to is very prevalent threats episode like not going backwards but from the Tiago aspect of it's the his love of his family and his brother versus his faith in the system of justice of the police force of of what justices it's it's this prevalent and even goes back to Molly.

[01:02:36] This is my other point this faith versus love and she starts to talk about how she is falling for Tiago has feelings for him and over her her buttered molasses with what was it maple syrup.

[01:02:57] Sugar that was the molasses so the masses is sugar and it's butter and it looked to me like grits and yeah that's what I was thinking it was.

[01:03:06] Butter molasses and grits look that that's like a porridge of some description kind of it's a reasonably regular southern American dish it's a yeah you see it in the lot in the south.

[01:03:18] Okay I did not it did not look appealing not gonna lie I will happily try it if someone wants to send me someone tells me like this I prepared or next time I'm in the side I will try it.

[01:03:29] Yeah the envelope might get soggy pretty sticky envelope definitely you can see it with.

[01:03:36] Still PG 13 oh yeah.

[01:03:40] But it's this this scene is difficult because what we do see it's this faith in her flock.

[01:03:47] Yeah faith in her faith her faith of her faith in God and Jesus and her too many faiths that roll back.

[01:03:57] It's her faith in her faith.

[01:04:00] I know you were gonna burst into out of tune George Michael rendition.

[01:04:08] Hey it's all about that baby at least I'm not doing it with the German accent.

[01:04:14] That would be awful that would have been fine but anyway this discussion they have over records of Molly and her mother it's that push and pull of I want to be Molly.

[01:04:26] I'm starting to feel or love towards the ago to be that normal person versus my faith in my as her mother says the flock your flock will be disappointed your flock will have problems with this because they will not agree to you.

[01:04:44] Leaving they don't care that you want the normal life they just want sister Molly so it's this push versus pull the faith versus love.

[01:04:52] Faith versus love.

[01:04:53] Yeah yeah family it's and it's a tough one because you do see she chooses the flock.

[01:05:01] Yeah or we're led to believe she's choosing the plot the flock because at that last scene with her is her standing and singing the song which kind of talks about the lost love and the one I will never have.

[01:05:14] Absolutely it's but not for me the I read your version song that she's singing which is specifically about everybody else find love but not me like it's it's definitely hammering the nail in the in the idea of herself and on Tiago as a friendship.

[01:05:27] And relationship and but this definitely feels like something that Miss Adeline has used a lever that she's used a number of times over the years to pull sister sister Molly back in line you know.

[01:05:38] If you do this everything falls apart everything we built and the charities that you built the girls school leave set up all of that stuff falls apart because we lose all of the support.

[01:05:49] And she loses all of her money she loses all of the support that the church gets from their congregation and it's probably disingenuous.

[01:05:58] I would think you know it's one of those things that you hear.

[01:06:02] I know it's not the small time but you hear from like the Disney kids you hear from the from the kids that are recording records at 15 16 years old you know and all the boy band and girl band people are always told by their managers you can't get into relationship because then.

[01:06:17] All of your fans will distance themselves from me they'll walk away and you lose all your money and that's that's the pressure that's put on them as they're.

[01:06:24] Going into their careers and it's the same type of pressure that's being put on Molly to become sister Molly the stage version of herself.

[01:06:32] But you do hear from her mother saying you know you tell yourself this lie there's two different versions of sister Molly there's there's only been yeah.

[01:06:39] So I'm not too sure with with Miss Adeline it's a very short scene again between these two and there is a lot going on with so many characters in the show it is telling the story of an entire city really.

[01:06:50] And so sometimes some of these intense behind the some of the intentions behind these scenes can be slightly lost or a little bit muddled because they're it's just such short scenes and I'm not too sure how much more time we're going to spend on this idea of.

[01:07:03] Poor little rich girl is is the forefront of a church that's making a hell of a lot of money and taking people's money by saying to them she has a direct connection with God and her saying well I don't want that I want to go off my boyfriend.

[01:07:15] You know I'm not too sure whether that's going to be a central story for the rest of the series but it feels like it's something that has been touched on in almost every episode.

[01:07:23] And either we need an episode with Molly with a flashback perhaps to her past that it feels more connected to the show because we as we've said before it's also not connected to the Magda storylines which tend to be all the central stories throughout the season.

[01:07:37] Unless as you were saying last week somehow she's calling on Santa Mother but we need to kind of see that yeah I mean I thought this was a nice scene between Molly and her mother.

[01:07:48] And I think in that I mean it was important to have this idea that her mother and you know is talking about you know at the moment I've kind of gotten the impression from Miss Adelaide that she would just simply send out Randolph and it would be like punch punch hack hack and problem sorted.

[01:08:10] Problem sorted and I think this idea that you know maybe she's more than that okay he that he's just following her and maybe takes action but here she's trying to reason with Molly.

[01:08:23] As a mother would I feel and I think that's I know it's different because it's it's mother daughter but also effectively a business seeing the amount of cash register registers that ringing episode one.

[01:08:37] And someone around that breakfast table is responsible for the death of the four hazards as well yeah still in the back of my mind and like why so I thought this was necessary and.

[01:08:48] Because and that's the thing it will be interesting to see how that plays out given what's happening this episode now with Diego where he's effectively taking the fall.

[01:08:57] So I think it was important to have this conversation between the two and see how it kind of connects in more to possibly what's happening with Diego and but yeah there is a lot of stuff going on with four episodes to go so.

[01:09:15] And I suspect it will be fairly roller coaster actually with what's happening.

[01:09:20] It's really interesting to see this this faith versus love the faith in the flock faith in the Chico's faith in the justice and serve and protect and the police force versus your love.

[01:09:34] Of to be simple Molly your love of family your love of your brother like it's it's interesting to see how they're calm.

[01:09:44] Not contemplating about playing off each other and who when you think one would win very much I thought family and mother love.

[01:09:57] Beat out the love of the faith in the Chico code and the Chico's now it's that it's that I thought the love of simple Molly.

[01:10:07] And the love of Tiago would beat out the faith in the flock.

[01:10:12] Yeah so it's that I thought that the love of the force and truth justice in the American way and would beat out the love of a brother.

[01:10:23] Especially when he's confessed to murder so exactly.

[01:10:27] It's just it's flipping what you would believe.

[01:10:29] Yeah I have to say though Jonathan knives is playing that role really well that he plays Mateo and he looks absolutely terrified you know there's there's that conversation that we already spoke about with Lewis saying he looked into the eyes of Diego and goes this guy didn't kill anybody because he just looks scared about going to prison.

[01:10:48] To from Lewis's point of view the way Jonathan knives is playing Mateo is he looks terrified as what he's just done.

[01:10:55] You can tell that he's murdered somebody and he's looking around the room at everything that's going on you see fly Rico acting like.

[01:11:01] Nothing wrong here we're just hiding out you know they listen to the radio and he's laughing at the idea of the ventriloquist dummy having a radio show.

[01:11:08] He finds this hilarious and Mateo is is like focus on this focus on the fact that I just murdered somebody and it's a cop.

[01:11:14] You know and that's why he throws the radio across the room or presumed to smash the thing up because he just can't understand why everybody else seems to be so calm.

[01:11:22] In the circumstance when he's just told his brother that he's murdered a cop and his brothers after him you know so I really love how he's playing that.

[01:11:29] Yeah and he looks actually to go he wants to go on up but is dissuaded and by by Rico and Rio and so.

[01:11:38] He's told just to take the blame he's playing it really really well and even just the look on his face I mean I just felt the kind of know you don't belong here.

[01:11:49] Well he didn't even say that you're not welcome here like to Maria his mom just like yeah you can believe he thinks that in that is great great acting.

[01:12:01] Absolutely absolutely and just onto my final point if you guys are done with your elements and absolutely.

[01:12:09] There's not much left for me to take but that's fine we talked about all the big moments from the episode just gonna.

[01:12:14] You get the big one next week exactly once we won't get John take the big one.

[01:12:18] That's fine.

[01:12:20] I wasn't the big one.

[01:12:23] But the other element that's just not haven't really talked about that much is just I found it interesting we're on the sixth episode of the show in the second half of the season.

[01:12:31] Every episode we have had a lot of magda controlling things either through actions or through her her conversation accident second and first and second episode from actual magda or through the words that she's saying to people and they're kind of enacting what she wants them to enact in this episode we only see Rio once.

[01:12:48] And she doesn't really say much she tries to tell Maria Vega not to come into the place to see her son but Maria gets by because.

[01:12:56] Mateo wants his mother in there but we don't see her anywhere else what we do see are the ripples of the things that she put in place we see the fact that Alex has set up.

[01:13:06] Curtin 10s and together we see how that's playing out now they are definitely the right people for each other because they seem to have similar beliefs and Kurt is definitely doing his work now to push 10s and into an even more.

[01:13:20] Racist place possibly and even more controlled place definitely from the Germans which is exactly what Alex wants of him and then we see the other side of which the one we haven't talked about yet Dr. Kraft has absolutely fallen for the manipulations of Elsa.

[01:13:36] He's now leaving his wife taking the children and doing something absolutely abhorrent.

[01:13:43] I think this kind of gave me a little flag again back to the treatment of an SI is back in season one of Penny dreadful this idea that he's just turned down to his wife and said I'm a doctor you're a drunk doesn't matter why you're drunk.

[01:13:56] I'm gonna be sending you off to a sanitarium for intemperance and hysteria.

[01:14:02] If you pick up a fuss you'll never see your children again this was something again that we talked about a number of times with Vanessa I've she had a threat over her all the time that somebody would send her to a sanitarium.

[01:14:13] A man in a position of power would send her to a sanitarium because that's just what gets done.

[01:14:19] And suddenly even though we haven't seen Linda on screen very much we have seen some very funny moments with her but suddenly I felt for this character.

[01:14:26] Yeah, you suddenly feel this she may be powerful she may be strong she may be willing to.

[01:14:32] Try and break up Elsa and her husband but then you realize that the power is still in the hands of her husband at the time.

[01:14:40] He's still willing to send her off but I do like how that scene ends I like that the scene ends with her calling that out going you think you're powerful you think you're strong right now but let's just see how this plays a kind of thing so.

[01:14:50] I did like how that scene played out but it's really intriguing to me that you know just even the idea this guy has just had a party for like 300 people over to say so what's gonna happen next weekend on the wife's in the sanitarium I've got this hot blonde 25 year old German girl moved in taking care of the kids like you know.

[01:15:06] Is all the rest of the community gonna accept that you know they would but then then at that time they would because she's in a sanitarium.

[01:15:14] Because that's one of the I suppose that's one of the intriguing things that we saw a lot in the other say the Victorian version of Penny dreadful was a lot of people willing to just go through whatever they were going through.

[01:15:25] To keep their reputation as a couple as husband and wife but it's well known that each each person was cheating on their partners with somebody else kind of thing.

[01:15:33] And where is here it seems to be right well I have a way of getting rid of my wife which is send her off to the sanitarium and bring in this murderer to my house to take care of my kids what's happening with Dr.

[01:15:42] Crafts because he's completely believing all of the stuff that she's telling yeah I mean I think.

[01:15:47] You know Peter is basically my notes had Peter is awful like what a despicable dreadful man and I kind of like the idea that Linda brings up about his dark dark secret.

[01:15:59] And you know she says I know you Peter but at this stage I want to know what that is yeah and I want to know what that is because yeah it's I can imagine Tom and Trevor's faces dropping to the floor when all of a sudden they've got.

[01:16:16] Elsa in the house and not and their mom Linda and so.

[01:16:24] I'm just kind of they're going yes he may hold all the cars but his kids are gonna go what an earth and especially a friend is gonna be the late night story exactly and at you know at the end of the day I think you're right I think it's really good.

[01:16:40] Part of the show though that you know a character not really seen too much of just the way it was played and you can really do feel sorry for Linda I mean you know.

[01:16:53] I was kind of they're going look Linda I'll come and join you into to drown your sorrows and because you know it's it's I just hope she gets vindictive and goes after.

[01:17:06] That's what I'm really hoping to see the full force of resting bitch face Linda and sort of exact her revenge here.

[01:17:15] Certainly something that looking back on the series already even in the only few scenes that we've seen with Linda you can see now the separation you can see that she had zero friends at the party that for her children you know it was it was Dr.

[01:17:27] It was Dr. Craft that was working the room music Peter was going around to everybody knew everybody had all his German friends also had all the other families she was.

[01:17:35] Prop enough the bar and the only person she knew and was talking to was the bartender service drink server drinks so she's completely isolated by everything that's going on but the consequence of this is that.

[01:17:48] Maria Vega may see another form of of Rio so she has seen Rio and if Elsa comes to live with the family.

[01:17:57] And she will sit so I think that's probably what this mechanism is doing and but I do want to kind of understand Peter's dark secret because it felt because there's so much happening it felt like a jump you know just had the kids birthday party.

[01:18:16] And all that and then it's been a couple of like dodgy bits of Nucky Nucky by an open window and then over the grave of a random who's been murdered and passed off as a husband and Linda was right about having some really odd fascination.

[01:18:35] Yeah so I think the Peter story needs to crystallize and maybe it's crystallizing towards the fact that and this will be another Magda the Maria sees and assuming that looks the same because or because otherwise was the crystallization here is it with Peter and the American German blunt and that connection with the Nazis is that's part of it and maybe that's Elsa's drive here in this but.

[01:19:05] And what's this dark secret and how is that linking in yeah yeah be really interesting to find out so I think we need to just kind of spool up a bit with with Peter yeah yeah and his storyline.

[01:19:18] I think that's kind of the challenge as well like as we said coming into the series we have a rick near who's probably one of the most well loved actors from the original paint dreadful and the only one of the cast returning for this show.

[01:19:30] I think everybody was expecting to be quite central to the show right and you kind of could have chosen anybody else to do this particular role so.

[01:19:37] But he is a great actor really enjoying what he's delivering but it's only a couple of minutes every week so I'm hoping that we're gonna get more as this wraps up for the rest of series but that was my point was just it was an interesting episode because everything was spinning on from the influence of Magda but my.

[01:19:52] Wasn't appearing in every single everybody's back pocket this time like she was in all the rest of the episode so only real for a couple of seconds the episode.

[01:20:01] Yeah no I agree and I agree I like John's idea and but give me more of this story quickly otherwise I will write.

[01:20:11] Gentlemen I think it's time we move on to notes that.

[01:20:14] Any notes for the episode.

[01:20:17] I the only one that really kind of popped out to me was just a threat I just thought there's a reason it's there I suppose more than anything else was the threat from Tiago sending into the brand newly built gas chamber in San Quentin.

[01:20:30] I'm sure it's there because obviously Lewis fighting against the Nazis well known for using gas chambers but just even the description of everything that was going on there and them using it as threat against Diego it felt like it was clearly positioned to reference what was going on or what will be going on in.

[01:20:48] In Nazi Germany.

[01:20:49] Yeah that was the same note that I had the idea that actually the capital punishment in California at that time was in fact gas chambers which just seems like fairly horrific in its own sense but that they were using cyanide gas like the Germans use as well seems to me equally sort of horrific but yeah.

[01:21:13] Because the same thing you know they were passed off as showers in the concentration camps so that they would be on clothes in the same way that Tiago is saying to that they just strip you to your underwear and the same thing about breathing deeply or holding breath that it.

[01:21:34] That was one of the big things that yes the instinct is to hold your breath and that makes it worse.

[01:21:42] That's it for notes for yeah.

[01:21:45] Yeah same here Chris you want to kick us off what did you think of the episode overall.

[01:21:49] I love that it was difficult to watch though based on what we opened with this at the beginning of this episode I still it still felt quite real in the current environment and landscape of.

[01:22:05] 2020.

[01:22:08] It's hard to not see the parallels between what is on screen and what is right on well as you guys said what's on your other screen when you turn into the news or on your phone when you go into Twitter.

[01:22:22] That aside the the story that John Logan and the rest of the writing crew and the staff and the actors are doing is fantastic it is well done and it does grow.

[01:22:37] I am getting the Tiago story is fantastic and I'm happy with that thread line there are one or two where I wanted to speed up because we are down to our last four hours less than four hours.

[01:22:52] I'm sure they probably will but the doctor craft storyline we have theories of where it might go how am I tinned kind of twine into the greater story because that's the thing most of these stories have to twine and kind of come back on itself like the aerobal snake.

[01:23:13] If you will it has to come back and eat its own tail in order for the story to make sense and that's so these characters are there all these characters are there are for a reason.

[01:23:22] It's just right now that's not fully apparent is not saying it's not a good story it's a saying that I can't see where the destination is with some of these characters.

[01:23:32] I just want to as you said great can hear is a well known actor and I was assuming he would not have said he would come back if this means nothing there is probably a reason he is playing this character so yeah I just want to see where it goes as a whole I'm still loving the season it's just hard to watch.

[01:23:51] This is two episodes back to back where I'm like when we had assault and mutilation and this we've had racial abuse and injustice and it's just okay can I just have one with unicorns and fluffy dolls penny penny judeful the the the the care bear edition.

[01:24:14] Although that probably sure that would be really nightmare and do so that probably would be Chris yeah might be the wrong show.

[01:24:20] Yeah yeah okay scrap that any who.

[01:24:24] Mr Harrison John thank you I was thinking we could have penny and penny judge dreadful there's could be like this little girl with pigtails he keeps out dreadful punishment.

[01:24:37] Exactly it'd be quite good and my thoughts and I love this episode I really did and my only slight complaint is I really want to know Peter's dark secret come on Peter.

[01:24:53] Just let it all come on Linda you know get over your hand over and spill the beans let us find out but I really loved this I think this is my favorite and that's why I'm giving it five distrustful unblinking fish eyes out of five and it's mainly just around the central interrogation I loved it.

[01:25:17] And I didn't know I loved it as much as I did until I watched it the second time but I knew I kind of did after the first time just because all that Lewis Mitchner toward a force in the interrogation and I think all the other little side.

[01:25:35] And scenes and really felt meaningful even though they were quite short I mean even Peter and Linda's just because of how Linda was there in that moment it felt as a.

[01:25:49] Still Peter and Linda's story Peter craft I need to know more but I don't want that to take away from and sort of the heart wrenching.

[01:26:01] Reconnection of Maria Maria and Matteo.

[01:26:05] I thought it was nice having Molly and her mother sit down just having this conversation rather than her mother seeming the completely sort of distant from her own daughter and even though it's an unusual situation and I thought that was really good.

[01:26:22] And as well and I think Curtin Townsend on the beach it was it was just a nice little sort of ticking over all of that there but ultimately the star of the show for me was from the very opening where you have the the long night and detective Mitchner grabbing his flask of whiskey to that moment where he is finishing the episode with whiskey poured

[01:26:50] by the other celebratory cops in in the precinct because they've got their patsy and everything that goes in between that is massively tense and it's sad it's challenging and I thought it was really really good and who know who knew that it would fall and at this particular time with the events happening as well so

[01:27:14] I yeah strange how it the stars align I suppose but that's why and I give five distrustful unblinking fish eyes out of five.

[01:27:26] Derek Derek

[01:27:28] in using that one two three

[01:27:30] Derek what about you

[01:27:33] and I'm yeah really enjoy this episode was really really good I do wonder just to kind of echo what both you guys are saying I wonder if they just removed everything other than the storyline for and for Tiago and Lewis and Diego

[01:27:47] and the police station would it have worked better as an episode at something that as I mentioned before they have done quite regularly and page read for where they take a few characters and just have effectively a stage play with those characters

[01:27:58] and the episode itself is almost I think it's just over an hour it's now in one minute long like it's it's the full length that yeah they have available to them on TV show at the moment so

[01:28:10] whether they could have just shortened that down or remove those other scenes out of them that didn't feed into this main storyline or maybe just keeping

[01:28:17] Mateo and Maria's meeting as well in the episode because that's what the whole episode is about his

[01:28:22] Tiago trying to save his brother from going to prison and if you just have that little tag at the end maybe of Maria visiting her son just to show what he's doing at this time maybe that could have worked for the episode but

[01:28:35] yeah it felt like it was a total choice to have Dr. Kraft speaking to his wife at this point in this episode that felt like that could have been in last episode there's no particular need to stick it in here

[01:28:46] there's no particular need to have curse and Castlement Townsend on the beach in this particular episode that could have been a different episode as well so

[01:28:54] it felt like editing choices once they have all of these elements of the story they go and we can probably fit in a few of those minutes here in this episode but I can imagine the tension that would have been there

[01:29:03] if the episode was purely about the interrogation in that room they probably could have really intensified it even more and it was tense as it was and very difficult to watch and not going to repeat anything we said at the beginning but this was definitely one of the most difficult episodes of TV I've had to watch just purely because

[01:29:20] switching off the news turning this on and switching the news back on directly afterwards felt like too much this week so I hope you all enjoyed the episode at least and enjoy the performances of what's going on there it's been a tough one to discuss this week but I'm always happy to be talking with you guys anyway

[01:29:38] yeah as I said like listening to this usually helps parse my thoughts and the better and discussing this I should say with you to help me parse thoughts but when we're speaking of thoughts I think it's time we move on to some feedback

[01:29:54] speaking of thoughts I like it

[01:30:24] over from Australia or more importantly should I say the high conch shoe I believe from into the night a podcast a moon night podcast excuse me he has a voice message to queue it up Derek

[01:30:57] I'm not going to go into your review as yet but I'll be doing that shortly after I drop these thoughts so apologies for any I guess I know double dipping on ideas or thoughts which I'm sure you guys have covered anyway quite extensively

[01:31:14] but I guess from my perspective it was yeah it was great there was just a lot a lot going on with all the characters I love it and you can pick which kind of arc you want to follow I really I kind of like how I kind of like it and kind of a little

[01:31:34] I don't know little cynical of it at how the Vega family I guess is so integral to to the whole to many stories of this so when when Tiago sister met up with Molly and then it slowly was revealed to Molly that she was actually the sister of Tiago

[01:31:59] it was kind of like Molly must be thinking kind of what I was thinking of oh gosh this is a these Vega family members that they're everywhere and then and then also Matteo as well being caught up in and and Tiago finding out that he was involved in the slang of Riley

[01:32:22] which kind of makes sense of course I mean that there was an altercation with the cops and Matteo and his sister whose name eludes me so many characters but but that was that was good as well I mean I love that

[01:32:38] nothing with Tiago not telling Lewis everything and I can understand how frustrating that might have been for Lewis but also just how experienced he is and I love how I love how

[01:32:52] Lewis said in the car he's just up front with Tiago saying look you know I know that you're hiding something from me and you're quite you know volatile and unstable and and all Lewis wants is to make sure that it is very potentially dangerous situation

[01:33:07] he's not charging in with someone who's a loose cannon so I really love that into into play between those two characters as well and then of course there's Natalie Dorma just just fantastic in her various roles

[01:33:21] whether it is for the councilman or or Elsa oh yeah my gosh Elsa and and craft I loved how it tied into the beginning so all you need was that little thing at the beginning to drop to show that she's picking up this guy

[01:33:40] and she's also using him as her husband because it's all fabricated we know so that was a little nice little clever touch

[01:33:53] also finally look you know I can go on and on but Townsend I thought was was really I loved his portrayal here because he is a guy basically kind of swinging you know in love or at least the idea of love after you know having spent a night with that you know that killer the the assassin for her

[01:34:20] he gots anyway I love his he's take the way he was behaving it's it was very good I mean it's a nice a nice some pickup and change of pace for him because because something's entered his life he seemed a bit more care free he was saying you know why not just you know people

[01:34:40] you know people gotta live a little it's not all about work and and I love the dance that he did my gosh anyone dancing in front of full glass full glass facade I always worry that there's going to be a bullet or something hitting his way but no so that was that was fun

[01:34:59] and I really enjoy all the all the music of that era as well yeah so fantastic look there's a lot more to cover I'm sure you guys will go through it like that that student who who runs into Lewis his friend at the diner you know there's

[01:35:18] there's more stuff with craft and how he played with his family but left them to go see Elsa so many things happening really love it I'm watching it as soon as I can every time it kind of drops so apologies for this being a little late

[01:35:35] but I'm hoping they still drop these in because it's just so cool to talk about anyway all the best guys keep it up and yeah I'll be listening.

[01:35:46] Excellent thanks so much Ray for your thoughts Ray was the co-host on our on our penny dreadful podcast for leading up to the launch of city of angels but because it's in Australia and these episodes come out at different times and we can't get them on for the main part of the show

[01:36:04] but good news just confirm this week you will be on for our wrap up episode the episode after the end of penny dreadful city of angels will be on for that we'll probably get into an end to winner over our table quiz John or a pub quiz.

[01:36:16] Yeah only only if he does it in song.

[01:36:19] Yes yeah I'm with a drink in his hand exactly.

[01:36:22] I did a German accent or German Australian accent.

[01:36:25] Yeah I know what you hear that.

[01:36:28] No no no you mean German Australian accent.

[01:36:30] No we don't.

[01:36:31] Yeah yeah.

[01:36:34] Well I was taking notes and I was like must stop dancing in front of the windows in case I get hit by a stray bullets absolutely.

[01:36:43] I just connected Elsa to let it go.

[01:36:46] Yeah that's where my brain went but certainly I thought that I must say I thought there was something worse going to happen to towns and that or we would see some kind of beat down through that lovely open expanse of window.

[01:37:00] I thought it was even simpler than that.

[01:37:02] I thought he was right in front of this big glass window.

[01:37:04] They've established that everybody in the city can probably see this big glass window and he's about to get a gentleman caller coming over to see him.

[01:37:10] I just assumed the press were going to be involved in this and there was going to be photographs of Tenzin you know.

[01:37:15] And thought that's going to be there isn't.

[01:37:18] But we all knew we all knew there was something or all thoughts there was something sinister about those windows.

[01:37:23] Yeah.

[01:37:24] And those vagas do get everywhere.

[01:37:27] I think Maria Vega needs to start.

[01:37:30] Is there a candle for sort of blending into the background that Santa Marta can do.

[01:37:37] I think maybe camouflage candle camouflage candle.

[01:37:42] That's why she can't find it and to do her prayers.

[01:37:46] And so I wonder if.

[01:37:49] Yeah, I did like Molly's look on her face because it was like no I've just told the same story to your brother but it wasn't the same.

[01:37:58] Oh, we're going to get caught out.

[01:38:00] So thank you so much for moving on.

[01:38:02] We do have a bit more voicemail feedback on episode six this time from the one and only the illustrious Steve Brown.

[01:38:10] Hello TV podcast industries.

[01:38:13] This is Steve and this is for episode seven.

[01:38:16] Of.

[01:38:18] Penny Dretful, City of Angels.

[01:38:20] Just blanked for a second.

[01:38:22] I just finished watching it for the second time and just bliked in my head.

[01:38:25] But I just want to talk about real real quick not spend a lot of time because I'm sure there's a whole lot that happened in this in this episode.

[01:38:33] And I'm sure you guys are going to cover a bunch of it.

[01:38:36] But I wanted to talk about Detective Mitchner for a minute because I realized this episode what I hadn't brought up before is that he really is good at being a cop.

[01:38:49] He's been a cop for many years and he really knows how to work the system.

[01:38:54] Even that system from that many years ago, he knows kind of how to how to work it.

[01:39:00] And when he's talking to Diego and telling about when he goes to San Quentin and all that kind of stuff.

[01:39:07] It really reminded me if you ever watched The Closer or Major Crimes, there's a character Lieutenant Provinza who's the same kind of way.

[01:39:15] He's this older, more experienced cop who whenever they need to know kind of how to work the system, that's the guy they go to.

[01:39:22] So I really appreciate Mitchner's or Nathan Lane's portrayal of Mitchner in this.

[01:39:29] I love that we knew in the last episode that he could tell that Tiago was lying to him about something.

[01:39:36] And then in this episode as we see him questioning Diego and then he even kind of questions Tiago there in the hallway and pieces together that it was Detective Vega's brother who did the killing.

[01:39:53] I really like this character, I like the way Nathan Lane is portraying him and I just wanted to appreciate that for a couple of minutes.

[01:40:01] So can't wait to hear what you guys thought of this one. Talk to you later.

[01:40:04] Okay, episode six, not episode seven. Got my numbers out of whack this week.

[01:40:09] You know, I know why you've done that Steve. It's very difficult.

[01:40:13] Steve sent in feedback to a number of other shows where we are some of the lucky ones that get feedback from Steve every week.

[01:40:21] I can only imagine especially as well doing his own podcast.

[01:40:24] I'm sure getting mixed up on numbers for episodes must be very, very tough.

[01:40:29] So well done Steve for keeping it together and at least naming it correctly for me.

[01:40:32] So I knew which episode to play for as well.

[01:40:34] Yeah, thanks Steve.

[01:40:35] Yeah, I'm totally with you.

[01:40:37] I think Lewis Mitchner, he is good at being a cop.

[01:40:42] You can really sense that he hustles and uses his brain to do what he needs to do.

[01:40:50] He understands the ecosystem that he's in that precinct.

[01:40:55] Absolutely, and I even love that moment where he says to Diego, I was just telling, or when he says to Diego when he comes back in,

[01:41:01] he says I've been talking to this guy Diego saying I've done this many, many times over the years.

[01:41:07] I've been here a long time, maybe too long is what he's saying because he's seen it all and it's not all good in there as well.

[01:41:13] So really like that moment from this Mitch.

[01:41:16] Thank you Steve so much and of course big thanks to Ronaldo for the feedback.

[01:41:22] But speaking of Ronaldo, I think we have some more feedback through this time on episode six.

[01:41:30] Ronaldo says I've just watched it and my gosh, what a tension filled emotional chapter.

[01:41:36] Understandably all the other threads of Molly and Adelaide and Peter and Mrs. Kraft seem to take a backseat to the interrogation of Diego by Vega and Mitchner.

[01:41:46] The potential is built around Diego knowing the fourth gang member is Matteo and holding that over the ever nervous Tiago.

[01:41:54] I have to give props to Adan Russia for his betrayal of Diego the full spectrum of whimpering fall to manipulative criminal is seen here and for me he more than able he supports the episodes.

[01:42:06] The relationship between Vega and Mitchner is strange but I'm glad Tiago finally tells Lewis what I didn't expect was for Lewis to then weave in the Haslick case and pin it on Diego.

[01:42:17] Nathan Lane again shows great acting here and Mitchner and Vega's faces at the end tell the whole story.

[01:42:24] Other scenes of note for me the utterly heartbreaking scene of Matteo rejecting his mama he certainly has fallen down deep into a black hole and the brief confrontation of Mrs. and Dr. Kraft again shows how tenuous a hold anyone seems to have during this episode.

[01:42:42] Just as the power play goes back and forth between Vega and Diego so too does it with Dr. Peter and Mrs. Kraft.

[01:42:50] Incidentally the plans Peter has for his wife are so callous and calculating I think even he was surprised at how cruel he could be.

[01:42:59] I enjoyed this episode but I'll put in just one quibble from the writing of Logan and Wilhelm.

[01:43:05] The writing seems to be just a little top heavy with lengthy monologues Kurt gets to give his origin and onset of joining the Gestapo Townsend then follows that with a cute story about why he loves LA.

[01:43:18] Tiago gets to shine opening up the interrogation Diego talks of mud hens and then Mitchner tells Diego of growing up in a different time at how the class difference is always there.

[01:43:31] Great fun for the actors but for me it started becoming quite apparent anyway I'd give this three and a half out of five bullets in the chamber sitting in the gen.

[01:43:41] Yes well you know maybe you don't want to shoot too much in the gents and at this point I'm mostly invested in the Vega family hoping the other threads can bring more to the series very soon.

[01:43:54] Thanks so much Ronaldo yeah definitely I think agree with you around.

[01:44:02] Edan Russia for sure I thought he really helped and that trio it was really just fantastic everything that they were doing and then I like the yeah I don't know I wonder whether.

[01:44:18] Dr. Kraft was surprised by how cruel he could be because of this dark secret I'm just wondering maybe it's not something that is new to him so I it's an interesting one.

[01:44:32] It's certainly callous and calculating definitely I know it's what makes it so despicable and I didn't pick that up I felt like he'd been rehearsing the speech almost.

[01:44:40] So that you could negate anything that lend any objection that she might have had he already had a plan in place for and if she makes a fuss she wants you the kids.

[01:44:48] And this is what I'm doing this is what I've got on your kind of thing and then when she has the audacity to not know the game the name of his harlot he instantly corrects yeah and so yeah I'm not sure whether he.

[01:45:01] Whether he felt that he was being going over the top or he was frightened by how far he was going I felt like it was quite planned actually yeah for sure.

[01:45:10] I see we're raised going with the monologue piece but actually I don't think this is on Logan and Wilhelm I feel this is probably the editing right I feel this was they could decided which you know what we can we can stick in.

[01:45:23] The towns and Kurtz story here rather than making it the I go heavy and Diego heavy because if it was just three yeah like three grand but when you go five monologues yeah I can see where.

[01:45:39] Where is coming from yeah it's just yeah it feels like an editing decision yeah I mean I agree I think I I.

[01:45:47] I like the monologue of the mud hens and Mitchner and I think that's really important to how Mitchner kind of operates and I yeah I suppose.

[01:46:00] It's one of the ways of finding out about some of the people certainly with the curtain towns and aspects for sure and but yeah I like the most hands and and the Mitchner class difference thing I thought that was really important to how he kind of set it up and it's yeah I liked it.

[01:46:21] Thanks Ray.

[01:46:23] Thanks Ray.

[01:46:25] Yes thank you so much Ray for your feedback don't forget we'd look to hear from all of you.

[01:46:29] You can all go over to our group at TV podcast industries over on Facebook so Facebook.com such groups slash TV podcast industries and leave your thoughts for each episode in the post mark spoiler at post for this episode absolutely and while you're over there since I still still after seven seasons haven't had the opportunity to do a podcast about agents of shield I've started a thread weekly for a spoiler post for.

[01:46:54] Season seven which started last week so look at least if I don't get to talk about the podcast hopefully I can talk to our lovely listeners about agents of shield in our little group there but keep it there this is an AOS free zone.

[01:47:09] Yeah.

[01:47:11] No but I actually did love the opening.

[01:47:14] It was really good yeah and set in 30s America as well.

[01:47:18] But that is enough of AOS it's an AOS free zone but if you'd like to discuss AOS go over to Facebook.com slash groups slash TV podcast industries and jump in and discuss it with us each and every week as it airs.

[01:47:32] Well me.

[01:47:34] You can also send in I know I'll throw some thoughts in there.

[01:47:36] You can also email us your thoughts to feedback at TV podcast industry.com or if you really want to you can leave us a voicemail by going over to the website TV podcast industry.com or if you need to just record on your phone and send it to feedback TV podcast industry.com gentlemen I do believe it's time to head to the pub.

[01:47:56] Yeah it's about like 27 degrees in our podcast room here I'm dying for a drink let's go down to the pub quiz.

[01:48:02] Well sadly it's not a very cooling drink that I'm offering in the pub this week.

[01:48:10] It's been a long night and of course it's going to be an even longer day so grab a hip flask of whiskey for this week's pub quiz.

[01:48:17] Yes remember fellow dreadfuls and penny faithful to send in your answer to the questions for each episode of the city of angels pub quiz just send in to feedback at TV podcast industries.com you can send them in one at a time as the episodes fly by or put them all down right at the end and send them in but make sure to get them in just before wrap up episode for

[01:48:46] penny dreadful city of angels but to this week's question what soda does Diego ask for while being interrogated by Lewis and Tiago.

[01:48:57] Very good he mentions that a few times actually yes what soda does Diego ask for while being interrogated by Lewis and Tiago.

[01:49:07] I'd certainly like one of these right there.

[01:49:10] That's why I'm kind of like oh yes yes I'm like very soon I'm going to start panting like a dog just keep myself temperature regulating well as long as you don't give away the name of the soda you're allowed to do that Chris.

[01:49:22] I've never heard of this soda.

[01:49:24] Okay well there we go.

[01:49:26] I have I have it's very American probably the American LA type type soda if you want to have all of the questions for the pub quiz available to you.

[01:49:36] Easily let's say pop on over to the website TV podcast industries dot com and you'll find a listing of all of the questions no major hints just a few images from each of the episodes about roughly where they may appear.

[01:49:48] But that will make it a little bit easier if you've missed some of them on our extensive discussions about penny dreadful city of angels.

[01:49:54] But of course you do not want to make things easy for yourself so make sure you go over to subscribe at TV podcast industries and go back and listen to each and every episode on this season.

[01:50:05] At the end we always have the book is just make sure you give it a download give it a like subscribe to the fees and short share the podcast because sharing the podcast is sharing the love.

[01:50:15] We are also over on patreon dot com slash TV podcast industries and we would love your patronage in Patreon so subscribe to us there for just even a simple dollar and you'll get some fantastic.

[01:50:29] Patreon only content and gentlemen do you want to tell them what's coming very soon.

[01:50:35] Yes we have announced it before but on the next again we will be covering Captain America Winter Soldier as an exclusive patron only movie review available to everybody over on Patreon they voted on that you all voted on last month and gave us the idea to do a movie because we haven't done Marvel in so long and it seems like it's going to be.

[01:50:53] When black widow is coming at some point this year but it looks like we haven't we won't be doing very much Marvel this year without be doing loads but a little movie hopefully will one of our favorites I think will hold us over until the next time we do Marvel.

[01:51:06] Yes I recently read at Bruebacher's original Captain America Winter Soldier and it still holds up even today.

[01:51:14] Bruebacher is a legend.

[01:51:16] Definitely.

[01:51:18] But gentlemen I think that's about time we head off into the dark much like Mama Vega and just walk and shambles towards the camera with the darkness behind us.

[01:51:30] Absolutely yes we'll be back next week with Penny Redfield City of Angels Episode 7 Maria and the Beast.

[01:51:36] Sounds good.

[01:51:38] I have a feeling that if you're looking for a supernatural episode of Penny Redfield City of Angels Maria Vega meeting the Beast maybe what's coming in Episode 7.

[01:51:49] Sounds pretty awesome.

[01:51:52] Excellent thanks very much for joining us we'll talk to you again next time.

[01:51:55] Thank you so much goodbye so long and see you next episode.

[01:51:59] Excellent stuff thank you so much fellow dreadfuls for joining us and fellow mudhands.

[01:52:07] Remember keep watching keep listening and keep playing dead.

[01:52:11] Keep sweating summer time.

[01:52:14] Yeah keep drinking ice cold drinks.

[01:52:16] And keep safe everyone.

[01:52:18] Thanks very much for joining us.

[01:52:20] Bye.

[01:52:22] Stay safe guys.

[01:52:24] Yeah stay safe bye.