Ironheart Finale Review

[00:00:00] This is Defenders on TV Podcast Industries. We're back for the Ironheart Finale Episode 6, The Past is the Past. I knew that if I wanted you dead, I'd have to be the one to do it. I did not come here to play with you, Parker. So you came here to what? Fight me? I need you to give me that hood.

[00:00:31] I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh. You were so sure that you were one of the good ones. But now look at you. You have your fancy suit, but you're not going to use it to stop a speeding train or save a city from an asteroid. No, you just want this power for yourself. That's not why I'm here. It's not worth the cost. Face it, Riri. You're a criminal. Like me.

[00:00:58] Like, fellow Defenders, to our final episode of Ironheart on TV Podcast Industries. We're covering Episode 6, The Past is the Past. I'm one of your hosts, Derek.

[00:01:27] Hello there, fellow Defenders. Welcome back. I am one of your other hosts, John. Yes, and it's the finale of Ironheart. So all excellent stuff. It certainly is. We're hoping to fulfil our potential with this episode, as Ironheart fulfilled its potential and its big reveal of the big M. Absolutely. So yes, won by Furlong, because it was actually him. And this is all anybody has been able to talk about since these three episodes came out.

[00:01:57] There were rumours that Mephisto was coming into this series, but because of all the rumours from all the previous series, we weren't willing to believe it until we saw it on screen ourselves. So we didn't want to over-egg the pudding, as they say, I guess. Yeah. But it is Mephisto. He is in the MCU. Sadly, though, Dormammu is still a little bit of a joke in the MCU. Well, he's been banished by Doctor Strange. That's a very binding spell. And he's an ancient, an ancient, not god, he's a demon, isn't he? Yes.

[00:02:25] So he's been bound by Doctor Strange. So I guess it holds up that Doctor Strange's powers are really good, I would say. Yes. You know, if it doesn't come back for a millennia or so, that's only a drip in the ocean for Dormammu's lifespan. But with Mephisto, there's some really interesting sort of directions that the MCU, or indeed a TV show, could go in the future. There certainly is, especially when you've got someone like Sacha Baron Cohen, who's a well-known guy, you know?

[00:02:54] And he's Borat, and he's Bruno, and he's... Who else does he play? I don't know. Ali G, of course. As long as he wears that swimsuit. In red for Mephisto. I am Mephisto in my jockstrap swim togs. But yes, I'm sure you've seen the episode. I hope we haven't spoiled that for you. I'm sure we're not the first ones to spoil it for you if you haven't seen the episode.

[00:03:19] But we are going to, of course, talk about this finale episode in full spoiler-filled detail. Overall, though, the reaction to Iron Horse has been pretty good. I think it's 85% on Rotten Tomatoes. The third highest rated project in the Phase 5 of Marvel. Yeah, that's really good. It's landed quite well. Yeah. Well, I mean, I've really been happy with it. I mean... Don't get me wrong. There's the usual moaners that are out there. Oh, I get it. In general, it's landed quite well. It's par for the course now.

[00:03:46] You've just got to deal with the old whingebags that don't like anything. Yeah. Unless they've made it themselves, but they never make it themselves. Of course they don't. So, like, what can you do? Can't do much with that. But, like, it's interesting to think that it's the third highest of this sort of phase. Because maybe I'm mixing up my phases, I guess. But I just think it's been a really good, solid little six-parter, actually.

[00:04:14] And just really, in its own way, very oddly, which I never thought was going to happen with Ironheart, it's expanded the magical element of the MCU. What with the hood and with Parker, but equally with Mephisto and equally with Zelma. So, like, actually it's done one of the biggest expansions of the magical MCU since Doctor Strange started. Well, exactly.

[00:04:42] But it is interesting when you take a step back, and we will in the next couple of weeks after we've had a chance to digest Ironheart. When you take a bit of a step back, you think about, you know, Agatha all along being a series full of magicians and all of the Wiccans and magic coming into Marvel. And now this tying it back to, all the way back to the start, back to Iron Man, you know, back to the technology side of things. Well, that is true. What I mean, though, is Agatha obviously is in that realm because it's witches.

[00:05:10] Same with WandaVision, with the Scarlet Witch and so on. But it's just this, I was not thinking magic on my radar at all for this. And I think what I mean about Agatha is that it felt like a great MCU show, a great side show, but didn't tie into the major narrative that's been going on since all the way back to Iron Man 1. Whereas Ironheart very specifically put it on the shelf there where we have Zeke being connected all the way back to the first villain in Iron Man over to Astain.

[00:05:39] So we have this merging of the two sides of things just as we get to the end of Phase 5 before we go into the next phase, which is starting with Fantastic Four next month. So, yeah, really interesting that they've done it this way. Absolutely. But shall we get into our spoiler-filled discussion of Episode 6? Let's do it. Yeah, before we do, let us just repeat our public service announcement. As always, you can head on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com,

[00:06:06] where you can subscribe to the podcast on any good or evil podcast player of your choice. We have, of course, been the home of Marvel on TV for the last 10 years plus. Yes. I think there's 11 there, yeah? 11, exactly. You can also contact us and send in your feedback and thoughts, observations, or theories on any of the shows that we cover by going to our email at feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com,

[00:06:36] or you can join our Facebook group over on facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash tvpodcastindustries, where we have spoiler posts up for every episode of every show that we cover. So, yes, please get involved over on our Facebook group. Absolutely. And the next show that we're covering is The Sandman, the final season on Netflix. First six episodes of that have been released, just as we mentioned in our last episode. I know lots of people tune in for the first and last episode when we do episode-by-episode coverage. So, you may have missed this.

[00:07:05] Myself and John are going on the holidays tomorrow, very soon, for two weeks. So, we won't be covering that show until we get back from our holidays. But that gives you loads of time to watch The Sandman and send in your feedback on those six episodes as well. And also the reminder that we do have our final question of our MIT student pub quiz coming up later on in this podcast. When you get that sixth answer added to all the rest of them, email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com within the next two weeks,

[00:07:33] and we will be back to announce the winner of that pub quiz. Yes. In two weeks' time, yeah. Yes, absolutely. Derek, what are some of the episode details for Ironheart episode six, the past is the past. Well, for the last time, the character of Ironheart, Riri Williams, was created by Brian Michael Bendis and artist Mike Diodato in 2016. The executive producers of the show are Kevin Feige, Louis Desposito, Brad Winterbaum, Zoe Naglehout, Chinnaka Hodge,

[00:08:03] Ryan Coogler, Sev Shinahan, and Jinji Coogler. The head writer of the show is Chinnaka Hodge, and she wrote this episode, the finale of the season as well. The episode, once again, directed by Angela Barnes. John, do you want to tell us what they gave us? With a synopsis for the finale of Ironheart, season one, episode six, the past is the past. Sure. In a flashback, Parker attempts to rob his father's mansion with John, before escaping and splitting up. Running from the security guards, he heads towards a tunnel,

[00:08:32] where he meets a mysterious man with a hood. He helps Parker escape from the tunnel directly to the pizza restaurant Desperitos, where he assures Parker that he can help him achieve his desire for power, respect, and wealth for himself. Despite the strangeness of the encounter and his weariness, Parker accepts the deal, shaking the hand of the stranger, the cost, something that Parker would barely notice. Now in the present, feeling empty, Parker accuses his mysterious partner

[00:09:02] that he has not fulfilled his end of the deal, which is angrily rejected by the man who replies that he had given Parker everything he needed, and had upheld his end of the deal. Meanwhile, at Gary's auto repair garage, and unable to recreate Natalie, Riri resists her family and friends' advice, and goes to Parker's headquarters, where she encounters and battles a reluctant Ezekiel,

[00:09:29] still under the control of Parker and his protector. Ezekiel allows her to knock him out, so he can reset and be free of Parker's control. Riri confronts Parker and demands his hood, but he warns her what it would cost her, and it's not worth it. The two battle, and Riri manages to take off Parker's hood, leaving him wallowing in a state of pain. As she is about to leave, Riri meets Parker's mysterious partner,

[00:09:58] who reveals himself to be the one and only, drumroll, Mephisto. Having observed her, Mephisto offers Riri a deal, which she accepts. The cost? Something that she would barely notice is missing. On the condition, though, that Mephisto leaves her loved ones alone. At her garage, Riri is still working to bring back her AI Natalie, Anne thinks she has cracked it, when she sees her appear in the garage,

[00:10:26] only to realise that it is a physically revived Natalie. Unable to fully comprehend what has transpired, she hugs her best friend, as the marks of Mephisto spread across Riri's skin. In a mid-credits scene, Parker makes his way to Stanton's sweet shop, where he asks Zelma for supreme-like help. Sorcerer supreme-like help? I guess so. Or chicken supreme-like help? Don't think it's chicken supreme-like help. No, I don't think so.

[00:10:56] What an interesting episode. I know, wasn't it just? Honestly, there's things that are done in this episode that I was not expecting, and if you paid me money to write the finale of the season, I would not be writing the things that happened to our major characters, the things that happened to the minor characters, the post-credits scenes, the arrival of Mephisto, and that final battle between the antagonist and the protagonist. All makes sense, but all real surprises to me. Yeah, yeah. I thought, yeah. Definitely. Well done, Joe. And well done, showrunner.

[00:11:25] I mean, I think really as well, just Riri Williams is someone I just don't think we've ever encountered in the MCU. Like, she's not as such this superb hero, and in fact there's a really good element here where it kind of links to Parker a lot, you know, where he's kind of saying, you're just a criminal like myself. It's not so much that she's a criminal,

[00:11:54] but her tendencies are not sort of pure Iron Man or pure whatever. But she's not a punisher or anything like that. There's a real kind of dubious grayness about her. There is, absolutely. Which is fantastic and actually really unexpected. She wants to use her abilities and believes that she hasn't had the... Fur crack of the whip. Yeah, she doesn't have the resources, I suppose, that other people have had

[00:12:23] who have had her intelligence. So she will do anything to get that. So she's still, as we mentioned before, she's just as driven as everybody else, just as intelligent as many of the characters in the MCU, but she's willing to go in a different direction and go in a different way than they were able to go. So it's interesting. There's a little gag in here about the fact that a lot of people sell their souls to get what they want. And I do think if this was the reality, there would be lots of people that do what Riri does here.

[00:12:53] If this offer is made to them by the devil to get a leg up, that they probably would take that offer. You know, it's all important in a lot of people's worlds that you get to the top of your game and do it by stepping on everybody around you rather than standing on the shoulders of giants and stepping on the heads of your competitors. Almost, you know? Yeah, no, absolutely. But I mean, it really does bring Riri and Parker that much closer together on that continuum. It certainly does. You know, all the stuff that, you know,

[00:13:22] Natalie, the AI, was talking about or Zelma was talking about being easily manipulated, all this, it all kind of reflects back on Riri as well. So it's like really fascinating character for me and just something that's really sort of very different from the MCU in general. Yeah, or at very least, you know, the general we'd have of comic books and comic book heroes. You know, it's very different right here

[00:13:52] with Riri Williams. But again, that probably comes from her being created in 2016. You know, the character's only been around for 10 years now. So that's a more up-to-date style of character, I suppose, than we've seen in most of the other MCU movies. But let's take it all the way back to the start, John. Let's get on to our case note number one. Let's find out how Parker got his hood. So we're back to the flashback of John and Parker in what we know now as Parker's former home. Just after John took out the security guard,

[00:14:21] they are rumbled and they break all out to try and get away. John sends Parker off on his own. Parker goes into the tunnel outside but is being followed by all of the security guards. And out of the darkness comes, well, what we know now as Mephisto, but a stranger comes out of the darkness telling Parker he's not living up to his potential and he can help him out. He can show him the door and exit out of the situation that he's in. Yeah, no, I loved this.

[00:14:51] I loved in particular just the door appearing to Desperitos, the pizza restaurant. It just made me think of this, of the bar with no name, the magical hangout. But this is the restaurant with no name, except we know it's Desperitos, and the magical pizza restaurant. A little help there for everybody doing the pub quiz. That was our first question, the pub quiz, wasn't it? Well, now they know. They do, yeah.

[00:15:19] So I loved that aspect of it. It really felt just really good. It felt proper marvel for me with the escape through the door that magically appears in the stonework of the tunnel and through they go with Parker escaping the security guards, but ultimately being ensnared in a very different trap here.

[00:15:48] Well, as you say, again, Mephisto here preying on the insecurities. You know, what is it that you most desire? You know, he's kind of... Now, he says he wants to be respected. He wants power. Mephisto's like, but no. Stop lying to yourself. And it comes back, you know, I want to be rich. Stupid, disgusting, greasy, rich. Yeah. And he is willing to give him the tools

[00:16:16] so that he can get everything that he deserves. And I kind of just like how, you know, this ends up in a handshake, which you know is the deal where Parker's soul is then bound to Mephisto. It's an interesting choice that they make, though, because they don't mention the word soul at all. No, they don't. And I know this is probably an MCU thing. This is probably a Marvel thing. They don't want to mention, you know,

[00:16:44] the Christian God or the Christian beliefs because they have, you know, well, they have Thor in there. You know, they have lots of different gods in there. I think the only time they've ever mentioned a particular religion was Captain America saying that he's Catholic, that he's Christian. There is only one god. Remember that one before. So when he's compared against Thor. But they don't really mention it, but it's interesting that the line that Mephisto is using is it's something that you'll never miss. And we're expected to interpret that he's taking their souls. He's going to be sending them to hell

[00:17:13] or some form of hell. I don't know if once the job is done. I mean, soul, integrity, whatever it might be. I just like the fact that, you know, Parker is weighing him up because it's a very strange encounter. And I like that it's sort of slightly unusual and it's being portrayed like that by Parker. And it's like, well, what's this going to cost me? What's the catch? And there's a huge catch.

[00:17:40] But Mephisto just powders it up as though, well, it's a cost that you're not really going to notice. Yeah. Because you don't really notice that you've got one anyway. Exactly. He's not taking your dirty socks from the back of the sock drawer or something. Like, it is something pretty serious because he wouldn't be giving you all this stuff for free. Yeah. And in some ways, as it transpires, until you notice it's too late. Yeah. And that's the crux of it all. Absolutely. And it's just really nicely done.

[00:18:09] But, you know, with the deal made, Parker then gets his hood. As he says to Mephisto, you've left your coat. And he goes, no, that's yours. And so, yes, places the hood and the cloak around Parker. Yeah. And there he is. He is captured. Yeah. So these are the tools that Mephisto has given him to accomplish his goals. It's a really interesting side

[00:18:39] of the deal that Mephisto is making here as well, that he always allows the person themselves to choose what it is that he'll give them or what he will set up for them in return for getting their soul or getting them. So he asks Parker what he wants, even though he has told him, I can make you the greatest human of your generation. I can absolutely do that. And then asks Parker what he wants. Yeah. And then same thing again later with Riri. He asks what she wants rather than telling her what he could do for her.

[00:19:07] He could make her as famous as Tony Stark, but that's not what Riri wants. So that's an interesting side of it. Also love the touch of the conversation going on, which is distracting Parker. So Mephisto just kind of snaps his fingers and makes a whole family freeze right in the middle of their conversation just so he can focus Parker in and the conversation that they're having. So I thought that was quite cool. Yeah. And again, it's just that kind of uneasiness, that strangeness to this encounter,

[00:19:33] which I think is kept nicely sort of, it's at the right level here for Parker. And I mean, in the end, you know, it's his greed, it's his need, his desires that ultimately win out here. And so, yeah, he gets his hood, but he loses, in a sense, his soul, I think. Yeah, exactly. It's really what is being exchanged here. Absolutely. And interestingly, you know, kind of, I suppose,

[00:20:01] to tie this back into the present time, his father, when he handed over everything to Parker at the end of the last episode, said to him, this won't be enough to you. That was kind of parting words to Parker. And very quickly, we have Parker sitting at the head of the table in the mansion of his father's food for about 600 people sitting in front of him. And the only person that's there with him is Zeke, who doesn't want to eat any of the food because effectively he's been held captive by Parker. And instantly he's kind of gone,

[00:20:31] nope, I don't belong here. This is not what I expected it to be. And Zeke's telling him as well, you don't belong in this place. Everybody's going to know you're a fraud. Everybody's going to know that you're not the correct person to be the head of this organization effectively. So they leave and go back to the pizza place. Yeah. And I think we can move on to our case note number two then, which is saving Ezekiel because, yeah, he is tethered quite literally to Parker.

[00:20:59] And I do like actually how Ezekiel does say, well, you don't belong here. He's the one that sort of points that out. Yeah. And, you know, and people know that you don't belong here, that you are a fraud. It will come across so noticeably. Exactly. And, you know, but then back at the restaurant, he's still tethered there.

[00:21:25] And I do like that when Riri comes to claim the hood, they're standing in the way is Ezekiel with no choice but to stop her and protect Parker. Yeah. And I just like that the reset is a knee to the nuts. Absolutely. Yes. A hard rewire or reset. And I like that she says,

[00:21:56] I'll pull back a bit so that I don't damage the stains family legacy. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. That's hilarious. You know, it's kind of acceptance that I guess that's the only way you're going to be able to do it because my entire body's protective mechanisms will kick in then. So you're going to be able to turn it off. He's like, okay, pretty smart, I guess. That's the way that we'll solve this. But yeah, a knee to the nuts for him. And he's left covered in a towel and recovering effectively.

[00:22:24] So that's where we see Zeke. But there is a little mention of him at the end of the fight between himself and Riri when she resets him saying he's still got a lot of anger inside him for everything that she's done and they're not done yet. Yeah. I thought that was really good actually. And again, it's just another little surprise here because I mean, firstly, I thought it was good that Riri says, you know, so are we good now? Are we back to being friends? And like we started out as, and he's like, he said, he said,

[00:22:53] I've got all this tech and I've got all this anger. And I know that you and I aren't done. Whatever that means, however ominous or not that may be. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, but I think it's just a really, I mean, I think it's still ambiguous because, you know, he didn't kill her when he had the chance. And I think what he's saying is I need space. Yeah, true.

[00:23:20] Like now it might fester and he might go after it or it might not fester and he might get over it. I just like how it's kept ambiguous and I just like how it's done. That's very good. And, you know, I think it's just because of his kind of call out to her when he was in prison where he said, you know, you're selfish. You only do what you want for yourself. And it doesn't matter about anybody else around you. And that's what he got caught up in. That's how he ended off in prison, her doing what she wanted for herself. So to me, it kind of felt like he was going, well,

[00:23:49] I don't want to become friends of yours again because you will choose that always. You will always choose what's best for you and not anybody else in the future. Yeah. The way he'd see it in the future, but an interesting one. And we do of course have the brand new suit from Riri here as well. So she's able to use some of her, her new abilities and this, this cool new suit made from her, made from the car. It's pretty awesome looking, isn't it? Yeah, no, it's a really good suit this. And yeah,

[00:24:17] it certainly comes powered up and is able to withstand. I mean, I know it's been primarily designed to withstand Parker, but it seems to be much better and able and capable of withstanding Ezekiel's sort of bionic enhancements as well. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. There's just that scene as well. We didn't really mention this before, but just that scene where she's with her family and her friends telling them she has to go now. And they're all trying to tell her to take a moment and just think about it.

[00:24:46] And she just says, look, thank you all for everything you've done, but now it's time I need to go and use the suit for what we've made it for. That's why she. Yeah. And, but the driving force here is the loss of Natalie. Yes. And, you know, she's been trying to get AI Natalie back with, you know, doing the brain sensor thing again, but, you know, it's just not happening. And, and so, you know, that drive then now for the horde and to go there is because, well, magic took her, took Natalie,

[00:25:16] magic will bring her back. And so like, it's really quite fundamental here to, Natalie and increasingly to Riri. And I, I kind of liked that because I always liked the interaction of Iron Man with like, say Thor, you know, he's always like doth thy drapes and all that kind of thing around, you know, the guard and all that kind of stuff. And then with Dr. Strange, where he's like, we've got the wizard here, you know,

[00:25:43] he's just come straight from the kids party doing the, the magic tricks kind of thing. So I kind of like how this is sort of gradually progressed into sort of that melding of the magic and the tech. Absolutely. And, but that's really reminiscent of Dr. Doom. It is. And, and so I, this is a nice little moment because. Doom is very much tech and magic. Yeah. And so I, again, using anything at his disposal to,

[00:26:12] to get his way effectively. So I don't know. I know we're, I know we've got Robert Downey Jr. coming back and he's going to be playing Dr. Doom. I know that, but I do wonder if that's going to be a very similar premise premise to what we've seen here with Riri and how she's taking advantage of everything around her, including magic, including the, the offers from demons to get her way and get what she wants. You know, is that the same trap that Robert Downey Jr. is going to be falling into to become that version of Dr. Doom? Well, as I say, Dr. Doom and Dr.

[00:26:41] Strange also have had a number of closely connected storylines of which one includes the whole notion of the incursions and so on. So secret war. So yeah, who knows? I mean, I'm fingers crossed, legs crossed. So we'll see. Yeah. See the torture and torment between those two characters. They're just coming. Hopefully. But I think onto our case note number three,

[00:27:07] because ultimately the reason why Riri is here at the pizza restaurant is to take back the hood. Yeah. Yeah. Not the neighborhood, the hood. The actual hood. Yes. Yeah. We see Parker has returned to, uh, to the pizza parlor and he's trying to raise, uh, Mephisto. You know, he's tried a number of times over the last couple of episodes to reach this stranger, uh, who gave him the hood. Uh, here, he is actually confronted by, uh, the return of Mephisto. Who's telling him, you know,

[00:27:36] I have been in constant communication with you, you know, through those veins that are popping up and the burn marks that are all over your body, you know? Um, but Parker seems to feel that because he isn't satisfied with the position that he's gotten to now that he's taken over his father's company, that Mephisto hasn't upheld his part of the bargain. Once again, this is a demon who's made a bargain with you. He'll do exactly what he said, you know, down to the letter as to what he said he was going to do, not what you wanted him to do. And that's what we find here with Mephisto. He's telling him,

[00:28:05] I gave you the tools. You said what you wanted, and now you've got what you wanted. I've done everything I want. I'm supposed to do. So, um, well, that's it. but then he says like, you've made such a dog's breakfast of everything. And I, I guess it's, you've sent your crew away. You've got your best mate killed and all this in pursuit of what you wanted. And you use the tools how you want it. Exactly. Um, and you know, he says,

[00:28:34] I've kept every letter of our agreements. I like how he is kind of forceful here. And to Parker's assertion that he hasn't come through, on, on the deal. Um, you know, and he gets like, well, maybe I should replace you with someone more appreciative. And this is, you know, this is where, you know, that realization it's like, well, no, I can't lose the hood. And ultimately what we find when we,

[00:29:00] we arrives and through that is there is a addictive element to the use of the hood. Absolutely. Um, and I think that's more evident, you know, back in some of the synopsis for the previous episodes and some of the discussion, points we've had about the previous episodes. Every time Parker does one of the things that drives him on and one of the, uh, pushes people out of the way to guess what he wants. That's when the creep starts to come in from the influence of the hood. That's when you see more of the veins coming through.

[00:29:28] Every time he's moving towards his, his goal, pushing people out of the way, that's what was happening the whole time. So, um, so yeah, the influence of the hood is, is the big thing here. Um, and we have the battle where Riri uses the magic that's been put into the suit by Zelma. Um, yeah, that was really nice. Actually, I thought that was nicely done. Uh, how she used it to counter the hood. I do like as well, this sort of the, the initial element here, just before they really get into the battle where, uh, Riri basically says to Parker,

[00:29:58] I need you to give me that hood. And he's like, no, you want the power for yourself. You're a crook like me. And I think that's the interesting thing for me from this episode is that statement to Riri and what transpires later, as we'll get to in our other case notes is she's closer to him than you would ever, ever imagine, even though they're fighting. And actually are they fighting because they're so similar? You know,

[00:30:26] it's the same thing, butchering up against one another in a sense. And they both feel and that they've been hard done by. They both have this desire to do something beyond what they've managed to do so far. And so this is real connection between these two. Um, and I, I just do like then how this plays out with the, the fight,

[00:30:51] which is really good with the different incantation spell that shows up like you would see with Dr. Strange. Um, but I mean, Parker goes full demonic. You see real demonic, almost a werewolf vibe at one point for me. Yeah. Um, yeah, I would say this is quite similar to what Mephisto looks like in the comic books. He doesn't go red. Parker doesn't. His eyes go black and he has the really pointed teeth, but his face is kind of becoming elongated as well.

[00:31:20] It does feel really demonic. It's like he's being possessed while he's in the fight. Um, and then this scene kind of reminded me a bit of, uh, of Thanos, uh, on nowhere where he did the elaborate setup, uh, that made it look like, uh, Gabor had killed him and it ended off that that was just his way of using, uh, of using the reality bending stone. Yeah. It was the reality stone. Yeah. So that's kind of what the magic that Riri uses here through her suit.

[00:31:47] She uses it to make it look as if she's exploded the entire suit, killed everything in the room, but actually the suit's absolutely fine. And she's able to get behind Parker and take the hood off. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and that's again, she rips the hood from him. And I love how you kind of get that black demonic sort of power leaving him. Uh, and so he's writhing on the floor saying, you know, it hurts without it. Yeah. So, um, yeah, this, it was, again,

[00:32:16] it's very brutal, um, of Riri. So now not saying he wouldn't do the same thing, but it's just like, you know, it was just really played well. And I just feel that it was like two peas in a pod effectively fighting here. Um, and it was, that's what was really surprising as this transpired for me. Absolutely. And then when I thought about it afterwards, I went, wow, Parker actually told Riri back in episode two, how to beat him. Um,

[00:32:47] he said to her back then, if I don't have the hood, I'm nothing. I'm just a normal human being without the hood. Um, so it literally was setting up that all she had to do was take the hood off and that's him beating. He's done. Uh, she leaves him pleading on the floor, um, to give the, to give the hood back. He's in pain because all of the damage that the hood's done to him doesn't go away just because she takes off the hood, but now he has none of the power that's been able to help him overcome that. Um, he's been putting the hood on more and more as he described because the pain, it's been more and more painful.

[00:33:17] He's been having ice baths. He's been, uh, covering everything up. But, um, but the only thing that's really been helping is the hood, but that's the addiction, I guess, as we said. So, yeah. So interesting that that's how it all played out that we heard at the start, take the hood off him and he's done. And now at the end, there he is. He's done. But yes, onto case note number four on the way out. Riri has a meeting, um, with Mephisto himself. Mephisto's there. I love that he does deals over pizza. Of course. Um, with red chilies on,

[00:33:46] you would hate it. I would. I would. But the heat, obviously, of the red chilies. I love that he does, um, he does meetings over pizza in pizza restaurants that have been closed for 10 years. Yeah, absolutely. He has whatever pizza he wants. You know, that's an interesting moment in the conversation he has with Parker where he's making him eat a piece of the pizza and then goes, and if it's not right, we can send it back as many times as you want to until we get the right pizza for you. Yeah. And here he is sitting in this pizza restaurant again, having another slice of pizza, even though there's nobody there to cook it for. And, uh,

[00:34:16] offering Riri a deal. Uh, and I, again, I, I like this. It's slightly nuanced what Parker was given, but he says, um, I want to help you realize your wildest damn, ambitions. Um, I like, I'm here. I help the unseen and the unheard. And you can tell that that would just fit into Riri. Again, you have Riri being a little bit sort of suspicious. Like, do I know you? You know, who are you? Where have you come from?

[00:34:46] How are you eating a pizza? You know, that you can get that sense of uneasiness, wariness from the strangeness of the situation. He's basically offering her what she wants to work with. Put together with my skills and your once in a generation mind. Um, and ultimately introduces himself. You know, we have the, the absolute confirmation, um, that he is Mephisto. Yes. I do like these as well.

[00:35:15] I'm called many things and some of them aren't very nice and hurt me. Hurt my feelings. Yeah. Hurt my feelings. Yeah. Uh, but I do like to go, uh, by Mephisto, you know, I'd kind of just, um, I just liked that sort of introduction. And it's then Riri is kind of, well, what can I do for you? Um, you know, what is the cost here? And again, she does ask that. Uh, and he says, same, it's nothing you're going to miss. It's interesting. Is it? Yeah.

[00:35:44] You wonder if there's a bit of a, um, if there's a bit of magic in those words that he says, because neither Riri nor Parker interrogate that any further. No, you know, neither of them ask the next question, the next obvious question, obvious question, which is what do you mean by that? What exactly does that mean? Exactly. Is that my childhood teddy bear or is that, you know, something massively important like my soul or, or my health or, you know, my mother or something. Exactly. I do like it,

[00:36:10] obviously in very different to just how I did the synopsis, but, um, I like how the, did she, didn't she take the deal is left hanging for a little while. Yeah. Yeah. For a little while. Yeah. You don't know whether she has. And so I think that's what is really good. Yeah. About this exchange, because in your mind, you're well, for me, in my mind, I was like going, you know,

[00:36:36] she's the good guy here and she's not going to take this. She, I mean, he's actually just said who he is. It's, it's Mephisto. Is the temptation great enough or is she strong enough? Yeah. And we don't know that until then after, um, that period of time has passed and we see her back in her workshop. Mm-hmm. But just before we get there, one of the things she does make really explicit in the conversation with Mephisto

[00:37:04] is that none of her family or friends are to be harmed because I think she does feel, oh, hang on a second. Maybe that's what that's, that is part of the cost is she's going to be, her, her family are going to be sacrificed for what she wants. And you see her having flashbacks to Natalie as well. Yeah. So this is all coming flooding in or whether that is Mephisto, I think it is. Sort of, you know, bringing those thoughts, ideas to the fore. I think he's, he interrogates his victims to find out what it is truly behind all their words, what it is truly that they want.

[00:37:34] And in this case, what Riri wants is Natalie back. Yeah. And she hasn't really defined it as to whether it's AI Natalie or real Natalie, at least in this moment here. But we do find, yeah, Riri's still working on her. AI. AI and working on the, on the, the calculations to see if she can get Natalie back the way she was before as, as the AI for a suit. And Natalie arrives wearing exactly the same clothes she wore in the scene where she was killed back in,

[00:38:03] in Gary's auto repair many years, five years ago, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So, and she is asking where Gary is as she arrives. So this is the real Natalie. And it's very quick that you understand that from just the words she says, but also. The look on her face when Riri is basically saying, you know, run diagnostics at her. And she's like, what is going on here? Why are you talking all Star Trek? Yeah. And she sort of bangs her on the head. And that's when, um,

[00:38:32] Riri realizes that it's Natalie for real. Yeah. Yeah. It's really, I thought that was really kind of well done. Um, and just then the, the penny drop the, you know, the, that she has made the deal with the devil. Um, and you get the skin distortions coming across her forearm, like you saw with, uh, with Parker. So you're just like, Oh, okay. She did it. She took the deal. She took the deal.

[00:39:00] And I thought this was just really such a good reveal, how it just kind of, um, happened and effectively, I guess, a resurrection in, um, or, or something that, you know, who knows? I say it's the Natalie for real, but what is it? Who is it? Is it Natalie? Yeah. And I mean, if Xavier and Ronnie, or Xavier was freaked out by the AI version.

[00:39:30] Um, yeah. Wait till he sees as a real sister. Yeah. A resurrected, maybe even more freaky. Just a bit. Yeah. But it will be. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe is going to be more freaky. And I think one of the, one of the things, you know, as you, as you, as you think back on what's happening here as well, this is the resurrected Natalie from five years ago. This isn't the Natalie who has that connection with Riri through all the work that they've done, all the science that they've done, all the, all the times they've spent together in the,

[00:39:59] in the iron heart suit, the closeness that they've had together separately from just being young friends before she went off to college. There was a new, almost a new version of Natalie, the AI that was probably even closer to Riri in a different way. Um, and now this Natalie's appeared from the past with none of those experiences, none of that knowledge. And, uh, Riri knows that the reason that she's there is because she's made a deal with the demons. So, um, I just hope we get to some kind of, uh, follow up to this in the future.

[00:40:29] There's got to be, there's got to be, you can't just chuck this out there. I just was really expecting to see the Natalie AI return. Yeah. Me too. I wasn't expecting this at all. Yeah. It's massive. What a way, what a way to end, uh, this episode. Yeah. But there is one more final case note and one more post credit or the post credit scene. Yeah. Again. And actually I'm really pleased that Parker is still around. I hope the character stays around because,

[00:40:59] um, I've always liked the comics. And of course, with, with the hood and with Parker, Parker, two different characters in the comics. Yeah. But it's just, you know, you don't get much stuff written about Parker. And then it's more, it then becomes more cameo work in all the, and I'm really hope that Parker just becomes this, you know, a character in the MCU along with Zelma even. And, and I just, the,

[00:41:29] the possible implication of this, um, mid credit scene for me, it just sort of has me salivating really, because a, goes to Stanton's sweet shop and speaks with Zelma. and, you know, actually he's a little dismissive of Selma going, well, I don't need party tricks or parlor tricks. Yeah. And what I need is Supreme like help. Um, but, you know, okay,

[00:41:57] let's kind of work together is the kind of feeling here. Let's, let's see what we can do together. What is intentions are, whether it's to try and get the hood back, whether it's to deal with the pain, the everlasting pain that he's in because it hurts without the hood. Yeah. Um, I mean, I'm guessing he's still got all the money. Exactly. Yeah. So it's, you know, I, I, so I, I'm kind of just intrigued to, to kind of understand how this develops.

[00:42:25] And I really hope that it doesn't kind of maybe fall flat or go nowhere, like with Harry Styles, you know, and, um, you know, and, and that suggestion, like, I really just hope it has some form of, of meaning moving forwards. And in particular with the hint of Supreme, like that it has that meaning with Dr. Strange in maybe another encounter with Dr. Strange or something like that. I do still believe that all those post-credit scenes,

[00:42:54] people just haven't given them long enough to, to seed and land, you know, that there hasn't been a followup on that particular scene because there hasn't been any need for it, but there may be a need for it in a future Avengers movie. So yeah, maybe they have Harry Styles arriving in the next Avengers movie in Doomsday for 10 seconds. You know, that's all it needs to follow up on that, on that little moment. Um, but as for this, I do think you're right. I do love the idea that maybe this could be the opportunity for Zelma to seek out the

[00:43:23] help of the Sorcerer Supreme Wong, um, and maybe meet up with Dr. Strange, you know, maybe that's the, the way that they can set this up. Now he can bring Zelma in. Zelma can go off and find Dr. Strange. You know, Dr. Strange is one of the most senior members of the Avengers left, you know, along with Sam Wilson, Captain America, of course, being, uh, one of the most senior members and then the members of the, of the Thunderbolts setting up their own Avengers too. You know, so we have, um, we have all of those camps and maybe this is the connection from Riri Williams and,

[00:43:51] and Ironheart through Zelma and Parker. That's how they all connect into the Avengers, right? Yeah. Zelma seems to know Dr. Strange really well. Her mom went to Camerotage. So, uh, she seems to know all about Dr. Strange. So maybe, uh, we will get that as they are draw into the, uh, Marvel cinematic universe of movies. Yeah. As they, as they come up, it'd be cool. Yeah, no, it'd be really good. I, uh, getting brother voodoo in as well. Um, maybe setting up strange Academy, maybe. Yeah. Even something like that.

[00:44:21] Maybe Zelma and Parker could go there. There is that mention of Zelma that she felt the Camerotage would be her reach school, that she'd love to go to Camerotage. But maybe if you set up a strange Academy, uh, in, in the Bronx, uh, she goes back to the Bronx and Parker goes with her and they learn real magic. Well, I think it's, it's, um, strange Academy is set in New Orleans. Oh, very good. Very good. Really cool. I was just because of her. I love the, the Bronx or I love the Brooklyn t-shirt that she was wearing. Yeah. I mentioned that. So she is from New York, New York as well. Um,

[00:44:50] but a cool little, uh, post-credit scene, a real surprise. I did not expect Parker to be going to seek help from Zelma. And I did not expect Zelma's reaction to be interesting idea there. You know, I kind of expected him to be thrown out the door and her to go, Oh, but you're the one that we like imbued the iron heart suit with power to take down, you know? Um, yeah, they'll be working together. Interesting. Yeah, absolutely. But overall, that is the end of our discussion on iron heart. Uh, any notes, any points that you want to make that we haven't talked about, John? Um,

[00:45:20] it was just to say that the opening iron heart here is on the table full of food. Um, that Parker and Ezekiel are sat at. Um, so yeah, spelled out in the table, uh, with all the food surrounding it. Yes, it is. It is written there, uh, right at the beginning. Um, thought that was an interesting place to push it, but it'd be kind of cool having those, uh, all the way throughout the season, the names of the, of the episodes, as we mentioned before, very similar to what was, uh, what was done in, uh, in Ms. Marvel as well. So, uh, that was kind of cool.

[00:45:55] Um, but I just don't like that, uh, Mephisto threw a specific person under the bus. Uh, the specific person does not deserve to be thrown under the bus. There's a lot of other people, uh, called out less specifically, let's say, and I don't think that person deserved to be called out the way that they were. That's all I'll say. Right. Okay. We will talk about that next time. I think when we get to our wrap up, uh, but John, do you defend iron art season one, episode six, the past is the past. I really do.

[00:46:23] I give this four and a half devils may cry out of five. Um, yeah, I just was really surprised at this. Um, I loved the total unpredictability of what was to come with, the re retaking the deal from Mephisto Mephisto being there for a start. I mean, we've been talking about this since one division. Yeah. Um, I could throw along. We talked about Mephisto.

[00:46:47] We've been seeing sites and sounds of Mephisto all the way through the, the TV shows. And finally, um, comes through on little old iron heart, which I wasn't expecting. Um, I love that you have Parker surviving, connecting in with Zelma. See what happens there. Um, but I think interestingly, re re, as I said, just the fact that she takes the,

[00:47:14] she takes the deal ultimately is, you know, fewer than seven degrees separated from Parker in terms of his own motives. Um, and I just really enjoyed that. It was very unexpected for me. Um, I think it's a real nice, um, addition to sort of the characters in the MCU. It feels, it feels quite different. Um, you know, I know,

[00:47:42] I know you can have anti-heroes. I don't even know whether you could say she's an anti-hero. She's just very dubious. Like the, the choices being made are, okay, you went down that road. Okay. I don't think she's necessarily bad, but then you kind of go, how corruptible is she? And how will this deal last with Mephisto? Or is that where we're going to see maybe Dr. Strange coming in,

[00:48:11] trying to remove these, you know, these contracts between people and Mephisto? Yeah. Or maybe she'll end off in damnation. Exactly. Damnation's very loud. It is interesting. I do love that you just called, uh, six degrees separation, one less than seven degrees of separation, John, or lower than seven degrees of separation. Very impressive. Uh, no, it's, it's just an interesting choice. And I guess it is just about the focus of how you, you write a story like this. You know, we've mentioned from the beginning, the story of, of Tony Stark is that he was a,

[00:48:41] an arms dealer who got caught out in, uh, in trying to sell more and more arms, um, and eventually decided that he was going to get out of the arms trade, but he was an arms dealer to begin with for quite a long time in his life. You know, here we've got Riri Williams at the start of her life, just around her college career. And she wants to get a leg up so she will use any means necessary. And right here, making another terrible decision and trusting in, uh, Mephisto. It's a really interesting idea. She's not at the end of her life. This isn't her core personality.

[00:49:11] She has the way of pulling back from it. She has friends and family who can help her through it. But this is the most obvious candidate I've seen of the Marvel TV shows for a second season. Yeah. I would say the way this has ended, uh, with this, with these moments, it feels like there is a setup for a future story with this character. Definitely. Much more so than just little touches of things that we've seen in the other, uh, Marvel TV shows that have been out there or the other Marvel TV shows that led into movies here.

[00:49:38] It just feels like we can come back next year and have another six episodes of a series. Everybody's still on the table there. Ezekiel's still out there. Um, the hood's crew are still out there. Um, Parker's still out there. Mephisto's still out there. Mephisto will always be out there. And as they say, John, the reason why you didn't expect Mephisto to turn up in this is because the devil is always where you least expect. Wow, that is true. That is true. But overall for myself as well, I really do defend this episode of Ironheart and really do defend the season. As I say, it's been a real surprise,

[00:50:08] especially when you get to the end of the season and go, wow, what a way to end it when you have your major character, um, accepting the, uh, the hand of, uh, of faith from the devil. Yeah, absolutely. Great stuff. Yeah. Hope to see more. Great stuff. Oh, let's go for a drink, John. Let's get down to the student pub. Fellow quizzers, fellow defenders. It is our final trip to the MIT student pub quiz. Um, it is the final question. Question six.

[00:50:35] How many of the people in the Forbes top 100 list have made a deal with Mephisto? For an extra point, how many Kings, Popes and Beatles have also made a deal? Now you know what I was saying. If you know the answer to that question, you know exactly who I'm talking about. Yeah. Doesn't deserve to be called out like that by Mephisto. No, absolutely. Well, Shakespeare was called out as well. He's an absolute. That's true. That's true. Yep. Um, but there's also a few other people on that, uh,

[00:51:04] that rich list, I'd say that could have been called out for it more specifically. Oh, definitely. Brilliant stuff. Do you want to give that question one more time, John? Yes. question six. How many of the people in the Forbes top 100 rich list have made a deal with Mephisto? For an extra point, how many Kings, Popes and Beatles have also made a deal? Very good. That's the sixth question of six. If you've missed anything,

[00:51:33] pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com. Go to Pope Quizzes. All six questions are up there. And then email us before the 21st of July with all your correct answers. And you can be able to chance of getting your hands on some Ironheart goodies. Just email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. And I should say that is according to Mephisto. According to Mephisto. Sorry, of course. Yes, not according to us or real life. Cause, well, no, I'd say it's probably quite accurate. Will we go on to some feedback, John? Yes.

[00:52:03] Fellow defenders, welcome to our feedback section. We've got some feedback through from Dr. Bob, who on episode five, he says, damn girl or something like that. The writers can't hold back from ringing the heartstrings. Can they? The second death of Natalie was beautifully done. Not least because of the lack of surprise on the viewer, but disbelief of the folks on the screen. But before that, the comedy highs of Zeke, the bionic bunny, a flying slug,

[00:52:32] and entrepreneurial Landon lightened the mood. Great to see an almost entire battle sequence without a man around, and the consequences for hoodie of his retirement policy coming home to roost. Plus Chekhov's Barracuda. Mm-hmm. A Barracuda is the car that was brought back by Riri's mom. So, Chekhov's Barracuda. So, the car was always going to come back and was eventually going to become Riri's suit, I guess,

[00:53:02] as the meaning of that, yeah? Yes. Yeah. And also, remember, we had the coffees brought by Xavier, who says, who has Riri's as James Tiberius Kirk. Yes, he does. Yeah, yeah, there's actually a real big Star Trek influence here, which is kind of interesting. Even on the note, she had the Starfleet symbol on the note as well, and a lot of this stuff wasn't even called out, and Star Trek is owned by Paramount. It's not even connected to Disney. that's what I was thinking. Yeah, well done, lads. Very,

[00:53:32] very interesting. Yeah. But yeah, certainly, the loss of Natalie there for the second time was really unexpected, and yeah, pretty gut-wrenching. It was. Yeah, thanks so much, Dr. Bob, for your thoughts on episode five. Yeah, good stuff. Thanks, Dr. Bob. On to some feedback on episode six, coffee and vodka on his email says, greetings fellow fool me again defenders. The reveal made it all worth it, complete with a hero on his hook. Best of all played by Borat himself. Real last message, color me happy to be wrong,

[00:54:02] and welcome big M to the MCU. As for the episode, a nice wrap up with a much more fully confident and prepared Riri, flesh dead in ability, if not yet mature in attitude. Lyric Ross stands out as Natalie, the series best character. As for the series itself, and where it belongs between the best, Loki slash WandaVision, and the worst in humans, secret invasion, I'd probably drop it somewhere right in the center. How about you guys? Four ballsy solutions, second sorceress chances,

[00:54:30] and real true Mephisto's out of five. Peace and take care. Coffee and vodka. Excellent stuff, coffee and vodka. Really glad you enjoyed the reveal of Mephisto as much as we did. And yeah, I mean, I think for me, this is really upper center. Yeah. But that's because I just like the magic side of it. I'm stoked by just having the hood in there and Parker and Zelma.

[00:54:58] And I think this episode just was like a bit of a surprise for me. It was a real spin. Yeah. And I think you're right, you know, complete with a hero on his hook. Like that's not what I was thinking was going to go down here. And so, yeah, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And I think just the shortness of that final battle between Parker, because it had been so important that they were building a suit specifically to battle against Parker. And then it was, Oh, she just used the magic to confuse him and take off his hood. It's like, Oh,

[00:55:28] how are they going to finish the show now? And then they finished the show with her doing a deal with the devil. It's just so unexpected. And that just makes it so interesting. You know, we'll be thinking back on this in the future and going back and rewatching these episodes and seeing what the setup was for, for this final piece, you know, maybe thinking of it differently than a young girl who you thought was a hero at the beginning, becoming the person that sells her soul to the devil, but at the end, that's probably a different way of looking at the series than the way we were looking at it throughout.

[00:55:58] yeah. And it's interesting because I think, I think for me, it's just because of the surprises of this series. Exactly. And I think when we discussed it in, I think one of our wrap up for the year or, you know, and where we say what we're excited for, for the future. I mean, Ironheart just was one of those series that I just wasn't, I just didn't really know what to expect. What, but what I was thinking I was going to be guessing was something much more techno heavy.

[00:56:28] Yeah. Not the type of thing, but you know, a much more Iron Man type thing, like from the, the, the movies. I thought it was going to be much more like that. And then, then finding out that Parker and the hood was going to be there, I was going to go, okay, grand. And then actually it makes sense. This sort of melding of the technology and the magic given we're about to go into Fantastic Four. And, and their main antagonist is very well known for,

[00:56:58] and utilizing both technology and magic superstition in order to get the upper hand, as we discussed. So, and this really just held a lot of surprises for me. So, and yeah, I would say upper middle, upper middle, upper middle. Yeah. Excellent stuff. Thanks so much for your feedback. Coffee back. And thanks for your thoughts so far throughout the season of Ironheart. As always, we hope you hear from you again for the wrap up podcast. If you have any other thoughts on the whole season of Ironheart, keep emailing them into us.

[00:57:28] We also have some feedback over on Facebook on the finale, because as I said, this is all anybody wanted to talk about for these three episodes for this week. Yes. Mathematician says, I've never read a Marvel comic, but I bet half the avid readers are losing their minds after this episode. The big M is finally here. After almost five years of speculation for just about every Disney plus TV show and the odd movie. Riri desperately needs a chat with Dr. Strange or even better Wong.

[00:57:57] You can't use dark magic without some dire consequences. We've seen it time and again, but there she is considering and striking a deal with Mephisto. And yeah, absolutely. And as we saw from Zelma, it's like magic comes at a cost. That is certainly Lashley. It's been one of the huge things in the whole, magic Marvel area. Absolutely.

[00:58:24] Magic comes with a heavy price on the user. So we'll see how real Natalie plays out as well. That could turn a bit dark, depending on who the writer is. Mathematician continues, did you catch the reflection in the spoon when Riri and Mephisto were chatting in the diner? Was that Mephisto's real look reflected? Do you know? We didn't catch that. we didn't.

[00:58:53] We will have to go and check that out. Yes. We are going to do that right now. And we're back. We've just watched it. We have. You can see it very clearly, can't you? Yes, it definitely looks like his real look. He's certainly redder and his eyes are kind of more sort of sparkly demonic. Well, they're yellow. Yeah. Yeah. And he's got the black hair and no beard. So I wonder, is it actually Sacha Baron Cohen in full costume for that moment?

[00:59:23] Or is it CGI done? I wonder. Could be CGI done, but it's certainly the mathematician. So good, good spot. Thank you for that. Yeah. We didn't want to read anything about the episode until we'd recorded. So thanks for telling us about that so we could go back and check it. It's very cool. Yeah. Thanks. Mathematician continues. After clumsily landing Zeke in a mess in the previous episodes, her answer to setting him free from the HUD spell is to drop kick him in his two veg.

[00:59:51] Not my type of friend. Interestingly, for season two is that it looks like Riri has done a deal with the devil, receiving an alive and well nationally in return. Whereas Parker looks to be trying to find a way to arm himself with magic for a return meeting to take down Mephisto. Who knows which side Stane will end up on? More questions and answers at the end, but a great series. Each episode felt like it got better than the previous one.

[01:00:20] And I can't wait to see where they take her character moving forwards. The series score a four and a half Ironheart fries out of five for me. We loved it. Very good. Excellent stuff. Mathematician. Thanks so much. Really glad you enjoyed it. I think I totally agree with your score for the series. And I think, yeah, just it built. And I think this last episode was full of surprises. Yeah, it was. It was. I do wonder if they had released it weekly,

[01:00:49] would it have hit a bit better? Having this reveal in the last sixth episode, because I do feel this is all anybody's been talking about is just the reveal of Mephisto and have missed some of the nuance that was in there in those other two episodes. Because I really liked episode four and I really liked episode five as well. So, so I wonder if this, just this reveal has overshadowed it a little bit. Definitely got a couple of people that have been moaning about this just being a ripoff of, of Iron Man being replaced by a young black girl, you know, and suddenly it's like, oh, hang on a second.

[01:01:18] Maybe we should have been checking out this show because something big's happening over there, you know, which is always a fun thing to happen to idiots like that. Exactly. Exactly. Great stuff. Thanks so much for your feedback, mathematician. Yeah. Thanks so much. Next up, Donald Dennis had some thoughts as well. He said, wow, what a final episode. I hope this is the last we see of the hood though. I just wasn't in love with anything about this character from the special effects to the character itself. Mephisto was pretty neat to see, but I didn't find him to be a convincing salesman. In all,

[01:01:47] I give the series three out of five robot suits. Also, I guess on the, will I defend the series or not? I'd still have to say yes. For me personally, it was a bit weak though, but did I watch every episode? Yes, I did. Was it great to have representation? Absolutely. Do I understand why the sorcerer had so much Steve Urkel energy? No, I do not. Was there real emotional impact when the AI was being compromised? Without a doubt. Excellent. Thanks, Donald. Yeah, there were some great emotional moments throughout the series, but definitely,

[01:02:15] I think when you have a character as well performed as Natalie, taken away from you in two different ways, as mentioned by Dr. Bob, it does pull the heartstrings in such different ways throughout the season. So they did a great job there. Zelma, a bit of Steve Urkel. Now, I know Steve Urkel is very popular in America. I don't think it ever really made over here to Europe, but he's basically a nerd character. I just think it looks exactly like Zelma from the comic book. Yeah, no, it is. And like,

[01:02:45] she is a nerd. Yeah. Like, she gets involved with the librarian. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was thinking. So, yeah. So I think she works, she works that way. But great stuff. Thanks, Donald, for your thoughts. Yeah, thanks, Donald. And finally, Dr. Bob said, really sorry to be missing Chris in these episodes, but very much enjoying the pair of you. Well, thank you, Bob. Thanks, Dr. Bob. Yeah, thanks, Dr. Bob. And then on the next series that we will be looking at, which is the Sandman, Dr. Bob says,

[01:03:13] the Sandman delay is appreciated too, as trying to keep up with two shows a week and the rest of life, it can be a bit hectic. Tell me a bit. It certainly can. And thanks for all the joy you bring, Dr. Bob. Good stuff. Thanks, Dr. Bob. Really pleased you've been enjoying the coverage of Ironheart. And yeah, we can't wait to get into Sandman, but yeah,

[01:03:38] we'll be kind of facing off with about a million episodes to do when we come back from halls. I don't even want to tell you that there's also a fantastic four, and we were thinking about doing a Superman as well, which is also coming out in July. So there's quite a lot of things going on. We'll get there. Yeah. One word answers. And we've still got the wheel of time to season three. Sorry. So our coverage of Sandman is going to be, did you like episode one, John? Yes. Did you like episode two? Yes. It was pretty good. Yeah. One word answers.

[01:04:07] One word answers for our coverage. Oh, good. Brilliant stuff. This was not a one word podcast throughout our coverage of Ironheart. Thank you so much for sticking along with us throughout these six episodes of Ironheart. We hope you'll join us for our pub quiz and our wrap up on Ironheart in a couple of weeks time. Email us in with your answers to the Ironheart pub quiz to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. And you can be able to get some Ironheart goodies in that pub quiz. Hope you've been enjoying that as well. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah,

[01:04:37] until we come back mid-July with, as Derek said, the pub quiz wrap up, but also the Sandman. Can't wait. Also, a big shout out to the song Tech, which was written by Voyage, which we're using for our theme tune for this techno. We'll have to now sort of try and merge it with techno and mysterious magical stuff. Or like, The circus. Yeah, I don't know. Magic tricks. I'm thinking of Tony Stark there.

[01:05:07] But yeah, thank you so much for... I'm thinking of Robin. That man and Robin there. Thank you so much for The Void for allowing us to use the tune through the Creative Commons. But, as always, fellow defenders, until next time, keep watching, keep listening, and of course, keep defending. Bye. Bye. Bye.