Dead Boy Detectives Episode 1 Podcast

[00:00:00] This is the Santman Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We're back. We're discussing

[00:00:04] the Dead Boy Detectives Episode 1, The Case of Crystal Palace.

[00:00:30] Welcome back fellow dreamers to the Santman Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We are chatting

[00:00:54] about the Dead Boy Detectives of the first episode, The Case of Crystal Palace. I'm

[00:00:59] one of your Dead Boy Detectives, Derek. Hello there, fellow dreamers. Good to be back in

[00:01:05] the world of dreams and crusty sandy nuggets in the corner of your eye. I am one of your

[00:01:12] other hosts, John. I forgot that you were you'd gotten into that whole thing during

[00:01:16] during our Santman Podcast coverage as well. Yeah, this might seem a little bit odd to

[00:01:22] those of you jumping into the Dead Boy Detectives for the first time on Netflix, but this

[00:01:25] is in the universe of the Santman and they do they don't hold back at that in the

[00:01:28] first episode here. No, we see death again. We do. Same person who played death in the

[00:01:34] Santman. Yes, Kirby Hal-Baptiste now just calling herself Kirby according to the

[00:01:39] credits of the show. But yes, death is back here from the Santman universe. So

[00:01:43] we'll talk a lot about that as we get into the podcast. But that's the reason

[00:01:47] why we're covering the Dead Boy Detectives on TV Podcast Industries because it is

[00:01:51] in the same world of Neil Gaiman's Santman, one of my favourite universes in all

[00:01:54] of comicdom. Most definitely, but this is certainly, dare I say it, more chipper.

[00:01:59] It is. It is definitely. Apart from the fact that death appears in the first

[00:02:02] episode. Yeah, it is a bit more chipper. But the main protagonists here, which is

[00:02:09] Edwin and Charles, certainly kind of, you know, more youthful dynamics, more

[00:02:14] chipper. And so, yeah, a different vibe, I think, at least for now, at least

[00:02:20] from this first episode. Exactly. A lot less dour than Morpheus, the

[00:02:25] Sandman, who was trapped for 100 years as well. But from the same

[00:02:30] universe. Would you like to explain that? I'll talk about it a little bit.

[00:02:34] We'll obviously get into full spoiler fill details as we go into the episode.

[00:02:38] But the two characters did appear in the Sandman comic book in a storyline

[00:02:42] that hasn't been adapted for Netflix just yet from the Sandman. It would

[00:02:46] have been coming up in season two of the Sandman TV show. OK, yeah.

[00:02:48] So that's quite interesting.

[00:02:50] But yes, both of them both of them died in mysterious circumstances

[00:02:54] and didn't pass on to hell or heaven, whichever place they were going to go to.

[00:02:58] Eventually, they were taken out of the Sandman universe

[00:03:01] and another writer took them on board to bring them into starring roles

[00:03:05] in their own comic book series called The Dead Boy Detectives,

[00:03:07] where the two of them investigate crimes that are affecting ghosts

[00:03:11] and affecting other people that haven't left this realm, I suppose.

[00:03:15] Yeah, interestingly for me, and because of course, fellow dreamers,

[00:03:19] if you have been following our Sandman podcast, I mean,

[00:03:21] I absolutely adore Neil Gaiman and the stuff I've read.

[00:03:25] But I have never read the Sandman.

[00:03:27] And even with the time that has passed, I still haven't actually read it.

[00:03:31] So I certainly haven't read the Dead Boy Detectives

[00:03:36] kind of issue where they're introduced in the Sandman comics.

[00:03:41] But it does feel familiar to to me this, whether it's

[00:03:45] just obviously the detective agency doing case by case.

[00:03:48] I mean, not saying that it is the X-Files in the sense,

[00:03:53] but I mean, that was one of my favorite shows.

[00:03:55] So I really kind of like that element to it.

[00:03:59] But then it's also, you know, the idea of investigating the supernatural,

[00:04:03] even though they are supernatural themselves, is, you know,

[00:04:07] a really interesting premise.

[00:04:09] And I've enjoyed stuff like the one with Nick Frost and Simon Pegg,

[00:04:12] Truthseekers, which was on Amazon Prime.

[00:04:15] That's right.

[00:04:15] In Prime Video, you know, similarly investigating the supernatural and so on.

[00:04:20] So I'm kind of looking forward to to watching this.

[00:04:25] And I know you've mentioned one particular word

[00:04:28] and one particular phrase a few times there, supernatural,

[00:04:30] which is a show that did this to a massive level

[00:04:35] where you had the two brothers investigating the supernatural

[00:04:37] across 50 seasons of shows.

[00:04:39] So that project could absolutely go for a long time.

[00:04:43] There's loads of possibilities there when you have mysterious

[00:04:46] goings on that can be investigated by the supernatural.

[00:04:49] And one of the things that did come across at the show is how much

[00:04:52] lore a show like Supernatural has given into the world

[00:04:56] and is being used in shows like The Dead Boy Detectives and Truthseekers,

[00:05:00] where you have, you know, these mysterious tomes of books

[00:05:04] which will give you the guide you to how to get rid of spirits

[00:05:06] or guide you how to get rid of demons.

[00:05:08] Well, that's it. There are certain rules that must be obeyed.

[00:05:11] Yeah. And for sure.

[00:05:12] Absolutely. And one other quick connection that I will say as well.

[00:05:16] And I did notice it on viewing the Dead Boy Detectives

[00:05:19] first and second time, I went back and watched a bit of The Sandman.

[00:05:22] And don't forget in this universe that we've already seen on Netflix.

[00:05:25] We've had Joanna Constantine, who is someone that works

[00:05:29] with the supernatural and deals with demons all the time as well.

[00:05:31] So we've already seen that in this in the Sandman universe.

[00:05:33] And these Dead Boy Detectives are using similar skills

[00:05:36] that she would have used as well.

[00:05:37] So maybe we can get a crossover with Joanna Constantine

[00:05:41] come back into this show at some point.

[00:05:43] That would be really cool. She's in the world.

[00:05:45] Absolutely. That'll be really cool.

[00:05:46] Yeah. But before we get on with our spoiler

[00:05:50] filled discussion of Episode 1 of The Dead Boy Detectives,

[00:05:54] a reminder to our fellow returning dreamers

[00:05:57] and of course, our new dreamers as well.

[00:06:01] To pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com

[00:06:04] where you can subscribe to the podcast on any good

[00:06:08] or evil podcast player of your choice.

[00:06:12] We are also over on Facebook, over on our Facebook group

[00:06:17] at facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash TV podcast industries

[00:06:21] where we leave a spoiler post for each and every episode

[00:06:25] of our coverage of The Dead Boy Detectives.

[00:06:29] Yes. Because we love getting your feedback as well.

[00:06:33] So you can leave comments, thoughts, theories or observations

[00:06:37] on every episode of The Dead Boy Detectives over on our Facebook group.

[00:06:41] Or you can send in an email to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com.

[00:06:46] Absolutely. You can.

[00:06:47] And one of the things we will say, of course, there's a Netflix show.

[00:06:50] All the episodes coming out the same day.

[00:06:52] I've actually pre-scheduled all eight feedback posts

[00:06:56] to come out one an hour on the day that the show comes out on Netflix.

[00:07:00] So there will be a post available for you

[00:07:02] whatever way you're watching the series.

[00:07:04] If you're sitting down for eight hours, bingeing it.

[00:07:06] Or if you're watching one a week, pop back in there on our Facebook group

[00:07:09] and leave us feedback on each of the episodes.

[00:07:11] The way we'll be covering it for TV podcast industries,

[00:07:13] we'll be looking at the first episode this week

[00:07:15] and we'll be looking at two episodes a week for the rest of the show

[00:07:18] and then closing it out with the finale of the season

[00:07:21] with our coverage of that in one episode.

[00:07:24] So in total, we will have what's that, John? Five episodes?

[00:07:28] Yes. OK, five episodes.

[00:07:29] That's what my math says anyway.

[00:07:31] So we'd love to hear from you as we go through the season

[00:07:34] and how you're watching it.

[00:07:36] But just try not to spoil this if you want to send us feedback,

[00:07:38] if you've been to the whole thing

[00:07:39] and want to send us feedback on the whole series,

[00:07:41] just mark it on your feedback that it is for the whole series

[00:07:43] and we'll discuss it as those episodes come up.

[00:07:46] So kicking off with our spoiler filled discussion, Derek,

[00:07:49] who gave us what were when and how?

[00:07:53] Who?

[00:07:57] Yes, it is all given to us by the ghostly presences.

[00:08:01] No, this of course is based on characters created by Neil Gaiman

[00:08:04] and Matt Wagner, as I mentioned, Neil Gaiman with the original

[00:08:07] Sandman comics, which is where the characters came from originally.

[00:08:10] And then Matt Wagner took them on board

[00:08:11] and created the detective agency and did the spin off series.

[00:08:16] So some of the characters here are coming from his creation as well.

[00:08:20] The show was created for television by Steve Yockey.

[00:08:23] He was a writer and executive producer on Supernatural.

[00:08:26] Oh, good pedigree.

[00:08:27] And also wrote the Doom Patrol Season Three Episode Three episode,

[00:08:31] which featured the first live action appearance of these characters

[00:08:34] that have boy detectives at the time in that show.

[00:08:37] They were played by Ty Tennant, who we know from House of the Dragon

[00:08:40] and Son of David Tennant and played by Sebastian Croft,

[00:08:44] who we know from Heartstopper and as the voice in Hogwarts Legacy.

[00:08:49] Yes, indeed.

[00:08:51] And there is a little bit of Heartstopper in this, which we'll come to later.

[00:08:56] There certainly is. Yep, there certainly is.

[00:08:58] Steve Yockey is also the co-showrunner alongside Beth Schwartz,

[00:09:02] who was formerly the showrunner on Arrow.

[00:09:05] Oh, I'm guessing a Greg Berlanti connection here.

[00:09:10] You would be correct.

[00:09:12] The executive producer of the show is Greg Berlanti.

[00:09:15] So he is another major executive producer for this show.

[00:09:18] Very good.

[00:09:19] This has gone through so many changes.

[00:09:21] As I mentioned, the Doom Patrol episode where the two characters introduced

[00:09:23] that was supposed to be what they call a backdoor pilot for a series

[00:09:27] going on to HBO Max or going on to CW at the time,

[00:09:31] I think which would have featured those two characters

[00:09:34] continuing their story on.

[00:09:36] It's just made so many different changes

[00:09:39] have happened over the years with that service with with those shows.

[00:09:42] So this Netflix version now features Neil Gaiman

[00:09:45] as being an executive producer on the show as well.

[00:09:48] And this brand new cast starting off their journey with that,

[00:09:52] with this story in the first episode.

[00:09:54] Excellent stuff.

[00:09:55] Episode one is written by Steve Yockey, the co-showrunner for the show.

[00:09:58] And the episode was directed by Lee Toland Krieger,

[00:10:01] who worked on one of your favourite shows, John,

[00:10:03] he was director on Shadow and Bone.

[00:10:04] Very good. Did two episodes on that show.

[00:10:07] Yeah. Also worked in Greg Berlanti's universe,

[00:10:10] working on Superman and Lois, which he directed two episodes of

[00:10:12] and The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina did two episodes of that as well.

[00:10:16] Oh, I quite like that, actually.

[00:10:17] Massive Sabrina, the Teenage Witch fan.

[00:10:20] Mm hmm. Yeah.

[00:10:21] And that was the first season or two

[00:10:23] were very interesting of Chilling Adventures of Sabrina.

[00:10:25] Very different to what you're expecting, I think.

[00:10:27] But I enjoyed it.

[00:10:28] Maybe I was more Salem the Cat fan, actually.

[00:10:31] I liked his sarcastic wit.

[00:10:34] From the original. Yes.

[00:10:36] Yes, of course. Of course.

[00:10:38] But John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis

[00:10:40] for the first episode of Dead Boy Detectives,

[00:10:43] The Case of Crystal Palace? Sure.

[00:10:46] Meet the Dead Boy Detectives.

[00:10:47] Edwin is the brains and Charles the brawn.

[00:10:50] They've escaped from the afterlife to help restless spirits in the mortal realm.

[00:10:55] After coming to the aid of a teen medium with a demonic dilemma,

[00:10:59] Edwin and Charles head to America to find a missing girl.

[00:11:04] So right off the bat, the show does drop you straight into the action,

[00:11:07] doesn't it? Certainly does. Yes.

[00:11:09] I love those opening shots of London, the drone shots of London City.

[00:11:13] I thought it was really cool.

[00:11:14] Yeah, it was very cool.

[00:11:16] Love those aerial shots of London and certainly at night

[00:11:19] with all the lights and so on. Really good.

[00:11:21] Yeah, absolutely. Just a fun, a fun opening.

[00:11:23] I think the first episode we're going to be covering slightly differently

[00:11:26] than the later episodes because the later episodes are mostly a case

[00:11:29] that we're going to be looking at.

[00:11:30] But we will talk about our case notes or our major moments from the episode,

[00:11:33] the top moments that we enjoyed from the episode.

[00:11:36] So let's start out with running from death, which is the opening

[00:11:39] of the episode.

[00:11:40] Our case note number one. Exactly.

[00:11:42] As we have the two boys dropping out of the air into the middle of London

[00:11:46] and being chased down by a gas masked soldier from World War One.

[00:11:51] I thought this was a really exciting opening.

[00:11:52] Yeah, I thought this was really cool, actually.

[00:11:55] And it just felt really kinetic and good sort of thinking on their feet

[00:12:01] of both Edwin and Charles as they're effectively running away

[00:12:05] from the the World War One veteran with the gas mask

[00:12:10] and hired by another ghost at the museum because effectively

[00:12:16] the gas mask was cursed and was aggravating the spirit

[00:12:22] in inside and aggravating this particular ghost.

[00:12:26] So I kind of really enjoyed this.

[00:12:29] We also see kind of one of their first little tricks as well,

[00:12:32] which is the ability to jump through mirrors

[00:12:36] so they can travel between mirrors.

[00:12:39] So it's a good job that a massive mirror was being carried

[00:12:43] at the dead of night through sort of the the Greenwich Naval Academy,

[00:12:50] I guess, as well.

[00:12:51] So that seemed to be where it was.

[00:12:54] Wasn't that where The Dark World had a scene there?

[00:12:57] Yeah, it was.

[00:12:58] So basically our two heroes in Edwin and Charles

[00:13:03] can mirror hop, mirror hopping in order to travel or to escape

[00:13:09] sort of attack by this marauding sort of seemingly very angry

[00:13:14] World War One veteran.

[00:13:16] Yes, yeah.

[00:13:17] We'll I'm sure get more detail in this as the series goes on.

[00:13:20] But I think it's Edwin that's the one that's able to do the mirror

[00:13:24] hopping and bring Charles through with him.

[00:13:26] I think that's what he does.

[00:13:27] He's kind of able to map the directions between the mirror world,

[00:13:31] I guess, where he wants to get to,

[00:13:34] because he's being given out to by Charles for not put in the right place.

[00:13:37] But I loved the actual shot itself where he arrives, falls on the floor

[00:13:41] or lands on the floor properly.

[00:13:42] Charles arrives behind him and falls to the floor.

[00:13:44] And then we see this gas mask soldier arrive perfectly

[00:13:49] doing his superhero landing as he arrives.

[00:13:51] And they thought, oh, hang on a second, maybe this will confuse him

[00:13:53] by jumping to a different place.

[00:13:55] Well, that was really fun.

[00:13:56] But we see that Charles also has an ability here as well.

[00:14:00] He has his bottomless backpack, kind of like Hermione's sack

[00:14:04] that she carries around in Harry Potter, where she can fit the entire world inside.

[00:14:09] Same thing here with Charles.

[00:14:10] But of course, he's forgotten the one book that they need.

[00:14:13] Exactly. And we find out it's ultimately a micro contained micro universe.

[00:14:19] But he has forgotten a very important implement, which is a knife

[00:14:23] so that they can get this cursed gas mask off the soldier.

[00:14:27] Yeah, I like this and like they had to hop again to get to their office

[00:14:31] so that they could

[00:14:34] get the knife, but again, are followed by the soldier.

[00:14:39] And I, you know, in the end, it became a little bit gory.

[00:14:44] Like, I didn't really know what to expect.

[00:14:46] You know, were the pitch for this was going to be because as I say,

[00:14:52] in essence, they're quite chipper.

[00:14:53] But here we actually have quite a dark opening where the soldier

[00:14:57] grabs Charles by the neck, has him on the floor.

[00:15:01] And they managed to get the

[00:15:05] the cursed gas mask off him.

[00:15:07] And whilst the Edwin's doing the incantation to destroy it,

[00:15:10] you just see the blood and the deathly face

[00:15:16] attacking Charles and the blood dripping on him.

[00:15:20] And I was like, OK, so they're not going to necessarily pull

[00:15:24] from having some blood and showing, you know,

[00:15:29] maybe the scenes that you would expect them not to if it was being pitched

[00:15:32] at a slightly younger age.

[00:15:34] As I say, I had no idea really where this was going to be pitched,

[00:15:38] to be honest.

[00:15:39] So I found myself sort of getting into this even more.

[00:15:42] But as I say, I think the opening is just really, really kinetic

[00:15:45] and I really enjoyed it.

[00:15:47] But eventually they do

[00:15:50] manage to get the gas mask off.

[00:15:52] Yeah. But have to then hightail it out of their office

[00:15:56] and hide on the window ledge because death is arriving.

[00:16:01] And ultimately, this is where we begin to understand

[00:16:05] that they are trying to avoid death.

[00:16:08] They've in a sense gotten lost in the afterlife.

[00:16:11] Yes. And so I'm concerned that if death catches up with them,

[00:16:15] they then will get assigned to wherever they go.

[00:16:19] And what we do hear from a bit later in the episode

[00:16:23] because we do have a flashback to Edwin.

[00:16:26] Yes, at work.

[00:16:27] He was in hell for decades.

[00:16:30] Yeah. Effectively, an administrative error is how he describes it.

[00:16:37] Yeah. I wanted to just talk about this one really quickly,

[00:16:39] because this is one that is from his origin story in the Sandman comic book.

[00:16:43] We do know that the reason why Edwin is dead is because he was effectively

[00:16:49] almost kidnapped by other students in his school.

[00:16:54] He's a queer kid.

[00:16:54] He's a kid that hasn't come to the realisation of what his sexuality is

[00:16:58] in the comic book issue.

[00:17:00] We're not aware of it, but he's considered a soft kid

[00:17:03] by the other bullies that are in the school.

[00:17:06] And it's quite harrowing as a gay guy reading those comic books at the time.

[00:17:10] I was having this almost palpitations

[00:17:12] reading the story of him being taken at night, dragged upstairs

[00:17:16] and then used as a human sacrifice by these boys

[00:17:20] who don't really know what they're doing.

[00:17:21] They're practising with demonology effectively.

[00:17:24] And he dies in this situation, struggling and screaming.

[00:17:27] And in this scene, I think, as you mentioned a moment ago, John,

[00:17:31] the tone of it is kind of hard to pin down.

[00:17:34] Are they trying to make it a jokey upbeat show for 15 year olds?

[00:17:38] Or are they trying to deal with some of the the demonology aspects

[00:17:43] and the language that you would have for an adult show?

[00:17:45] Are they trying to make it align it align us with the adult concepts

[00:17:50] that were in the Sandman?

[00:17:51] You know, it's difficult to pin down.

[00:17:53] But the fact that they turned it into a joke

[00:17:55] in the episode with the demon talking to him going, Oh, sorry, kid.

[00:18:00] You wear a human sacrifice after all, off you go to hell.

[00:18:03] And it's dealt with as an administrative error.

[00:18:05] Me flashing back to when I was 14 years old, reading that story

[00:18:08] and feeling very harrowing what happened to poor Edwin at the time.

[00:18:12] I'm suddenly going, you've put that into the TV show

[00:18:15] and it feels completely different in tone to how I had read it at the time.

[00:18:19] Yeah, I mean, I can get that.

[00:18:21] I do get the sense, though, that Edwin, this really riles him.

[00:18:27] And so I'm I'm sensing that it will play out through

[00:18:32] the series. I think so.

[00:18:34] I hope so.

[00:18:35] I think the other thing that's important on that front

[00:18:37] is that Edwin is from the Edwardian period.

[00:18:42] So he was in boarding school.

[00:18:44] It happened in boarding school in 1916.

[00:18:47] Whereas Charles is from the 1980s.

[00:18:51] He's effectively dressed as a punk.

[00:18:53] And I think so.

[00:18:54] Yeah, kind of, you know.

[00:18:55] And so, I mean, I say the balance.

[00:18:59] I like the balance here, obviously.

[00:19:01] I mean, OK, I don't have the the reference of the Sandman comic,

[00:19:06] but I kind of enjoyed the demon Sal coming down

[00:19:09] and taking him to hell on a technicality because effectively

[00:19:15] he was sacrificed.

[00:19:16] So he had to do that.

[00:19:18] I think at least he takes out all the bullies.

[00:19:21] But, you know, which was good. Yeah.

[00:19:22] Yeah. I think you can see that the whole thing riles him up.

[00:19:27] He does say, you know, he spent 70 years in hell

[00:19:31] basically on a technicality.

[00:19:33] So I think that.

[00:19:37] You definitely see his irritation of what happened and how it happened,

[00:19:42] not necessarily him understanding why it happened,

[00:19:46] but possibly not fully, as you say, really

[00:19:49] coming to grips with that bullying that was being done.

[00:19:54] I'm sure he absolutely has that sense of it,

[00:19:57] but maybe not being completely open about it.

[00:20:00] Yeah. So coming back to their office, we see death

[00:20:03] arrive to collect this soul of the soldier who now that

[00:20:10] the gas mask has been destroyed and the sort of injured

[00:20:17] features have gone, the blood has gone.

[00:20:20] And interestingly, death calls him Wilfred.

[00:20:26] And I'm wondering that whether this is supposed to be a World War

[00:20:31] One poet called Wilfred Wilfred Owen.

[00:20:33] So war poet, I remember in school, just because you have that

[00:20:37] really quite nice moment where he asks,

[00:20:41] am I being reincarnated and talks about a Rajad Kipling

[00:20:46] poem from India and the whole idea of reincarnation,

[00:20:53] which is such a big part of Hinduism.

[00:20:56] And I just love the fact that death says, well, now you'll find out,

[00:21:00] you know, where is Wilfred going to go?

[00:21:03] So we had a lot of praise for Kirby Helveth,

[00:21:06] yes, version of death and how she was handled in in Sandman.

[00:21:10] It feels like once again, this is another one of those great scenes.

[00:21:14] She has all the love in her face when she sees Wilfred.

[00:21:18] She says to him, you know, do you not want to rest now?

[00:21:21] It's 100 years since he died.

[00:21:23] It's time to move on.

[00:21:26] And again, I love that line where he asks her what will be

[00:21:30] in the in the beyond for me.

[00:21:32] It's something that was quite, again, recurred quite a lot in the Sandman comics.

[00:21:36] People coming to her with their opinions of what they're going to see

[00:21:39] in the next life or after they die.

[00:21:41] And her response is always the same.

[00:21:42] Now it's your time.

[00:21:43] Now is when you find out now is when you get to solve the mystery of

[00:21:48] the great mystery, you're going to see what it is that happens after you die.

[00:21:52] And she never gives any indication of what it's going to be.

[00:21:54] So yeah, always like that.

[00:21:56] Yeah. So great to see her back as as the crossover character

[00:22:00] in the first episode.

[00:22:01] But as you say, this this sets up the impetus for Edwin and Charles

[00:22:04] all the time. She's been to their office.

[00:22:06] Death has been there.

[00:22:07] The thing they've been trying to avoid now,

[00:22:09] in Edwin's case, for over 100 years and Charles case for almost 40 years.

[00:22:14] They've been trying to avoid death and she's been here.

[00:22:16] She's been in their office.

[00:22:17] So Edwin calls it quite a lot from then on.

[00:22:20] Yeah. What if she saw something here that will indicate that we're here?

[00:22:23] And then she just comes and collects our souls and I go back to hell.

[00:22:26] So they're now kind of on the run or kind of going into hiding

[00:22:30] when they get a new client, which kind of brings us onto our case

[00:22:33] note number two, the brand new case for the boys.

[00:22:35] Yes, Crystal and the little girl with the glowing magical squid.

[00:22:41] Yeah, this is, you know, I guess introducing us to

[00:22:46] and the third member of or reluctant member

[00:22:51] or accidental member of the Dead Boy Detectives,

[00:22:56] which is actually a girl called Crystal Palace.

[00:23:00] And who is a psychic who can see ghosts

[00:23:05] and it's one of her friends, Emma, who is a Victorian girl

[00:23:12] who wants to help her friend Crystal because she's become possessed by a demon

[00:23:19] who we find out his name is David.

[00:23:22] Yes, David the Demon.

[00:23:25] So I kind of really like this.

[00:23:27] I like the hardball play of her coming to get this case

[00:23:33] see if Edwin and Charles will take the case.

[00:23:36] Charles kind of says, well, this is where you'll play hardball.

[00:23:39] And she goes, well, I'm just a young girl.

[00:23:42] Yes, you're a young girl.

[00:23:43] But from the Victorian period, technically you've you're

[00:23:47] you've lived longer in the ghost realm than than I have.

[00:23:52] And you're able to conjure up a glowing squid.

[00:23:56] Exactly. So you have means.

[00:23:59] You've probably figured out a way to live in the ghost world.

[00:24:02] But there's a minute.

[00:24:03] I really like that.

[00:24:05] That's a good a good play and made the made the whole scene funny.

[00:24:07] I also like the little touch of her going.

[00:24:09] She used to be a bit

[00:24:11] and it cuts to a scene of the two of them playing together in a cemetery.

[00:24:14] And now she's a bit and then it cuts to Crystal eating out of a bin.

[00:24:18] Basically, it's like very different, very different character.

[00:24:22] But I like that. I like that little touch.

[00:24:23] So it sets them on the path of finding out who Crystal is.

[00:24:26] And that's their case for the start of this episode.

[00:24:29] So we get to see them taking up a case.

[00:24:32] Yes, scouting out Crystal.

[00:24:34] But ultimately then sort of going to trap the demon with runes on tube train.

[00:24:42] I like the fact that firstly, they kind of threw you with the

[00:24:45] the the two clown twins.

[00:24:48] Yeah. You're going, OK, there's the disguise.

[00:24:50] Of course, they were talking about.

[00:24:52] And and then the fact that they get off and Crystal is still there.

[00:24:57] And you're going, OK.

[00:24:58] And you see that they disguise themselves as the living.

[00:25:02] So that they can actually be seen by Crystal.

[00:25:05] Exactly. And it's just kind of like a cloud on them.

[00:25:11] You know, they just wafted away from.

[00:25:15] And I kind of thought that was a really cool effect,

[00:25:17] as well as then when they tried to exercise the demon

[00:25:21] with the with the runes, with the demon fighting back.

[00:25:25] And you have the whole London underground tube train turning

[00:25:30] as the demon tries to escape, pulling fish through a vortex

[00:25:35] in order to wash away the runes drawn on the tubes and floor.

[00:25:43] But but I like that they'd also brought along the sheet.

[00:25:45] So they kind of topped and bottomed the the demon

[00:25:50] by putting the sheets on top and the runes underneath.

[00:25:53] And then I thought a very funny moment of when the demon David

[00:25:58] finally escapes, he runs off with the sheet in his head

[00:26:00] like an old ghost in an old movie.

[00:26:02] I just thought that was a funny little joke.

[00:26:04] As he runs out of the runs out of the tube.

[00:26:07] That was a great little gag, actually.

[00:26:10] I thought, yeah, I really enjoyed that.

[00:26:12] Yeah. But the aftermath of that is that Crystal can't access

[00:26:18] her memories of her family and certain other things.

[00:26:23] And so stays with with Edwin and Charles while she recovers.

[00:26:28] But again, it sets up a nice little moment with, you know,

[00:26:33] effectively, Edwin doesn't want Crystal to be there

[00:26:37] and was Charles is the one that's saying, you know,

[00:26:41] she needs to stay with us until her memories come back.

[00:26:45] I mean, effectively really saying we actually haven't solved the case yet.

[00:26:50] Right. Yes. Of Crystal.

[00:26:51] Yeah. Because of her memories being lost.

[00:26:57] Yeah. And because she's a medium, she can see both Edwin and Charles

[00:27:00] even when they're in their ghostly form.

[00:27:01] But there's much more to it, isn't there?

[00:27:03] Obviously, Charles is kind of going, well, it's a teenage girl,

[00:27:06] someone around our own age, you know, finally able to communicate with her,

[00:27:09] someone different.

[00:27:10] Edwin is much more insular about their their relationship

[00:27:14] between himself and Charles.

[00:27:15] He's very happy with the fact that it's just been the two of them

[00:27:18] for almost three decades and that the two of them

[00:27:21] working together and been been side by side with each other.

[00:27:23] He's really enjoying that.

[00:27:24] So he doesn't want some outsider coming in and breaking into it,

[00:27:27] especially not a gruff American.

[00:27:29] This is the insertion of a new friend into an established friendship.

[00:27:33] Exactly. Or possibly more.

[00:27:35] Yeah. And at least from Edwin's side, that has, let's say,

[00:27:39] at least at this moment, unsettled Edwin.

[00:27:42] Exactly. Exactly.

[00:27:44] And not only that, let's get on to our next.

[00:27:46] Let's get on to our next point, because not only that,

[00:27:48] in our next case note,

[00:27:51] Crystal really interrupts the situation here.

[00:27:53] Not only is she possibly going to be staying in their place

[00:27:55] where death was just there a couple of days ago,

[00:27:57] so they need to be really careful about everything that's going on.

[00:28:00] Not only that, she picks up their post from the the spiritual postman

[00:28:06] who's just dropped off, who's just dropped off the post

[00:28:10] and finds a new case for them.

[00:28:12] And this new case is a missing girl in America.

[00:28:15] I like the fact here that she's able to pick up on the magic from the cases.

[00:28:21] So, like she says that, you know, she can she's reading it

[00:28:27] and, you know, it's not the same thing as Edwin and Charles as a medium.

[00:28:35] She's kind of getting senses thrown at her from in this case.

[00:28:40] She she picks up a missing girl leaflet

[00:28:44] that she suddenly says is she's caught in a dark place.

[00:28:48] She's still alive.

[00:28:49] And it is the Beck Aspen case out in Jefferson County, in the USA.

[00:28:57] Our case note number three going to America.

[00:29:00] Exactly.

[00:29:01] And I love the fact that then it cuts to them

[00:29:05] getting off a boat in Jefferson County, in Washington, in the US.

[00:29:11] And you still have Edwin saying,

[00:29:15] well, we could have just trapped, you know, mirror hopped effectively here.

[00:29:19] But two planes, a train and a boat and so on.

[00:29:23] You know, it's taken us three days to get here.

[00:29:26] And you're still kind of whinging and making crystal

[00:29:30] the focus of why exactly whinging.

[00:29:32] We could have been here in two seconds.

[00:29:33] Because we had to deal with a stupid live human.

[00:29:36] Here we are on.

[00:29:37] Well, I think it's actually just three planes and a ferry.

[00:29:39] I think this is the title that pops up on the screen

[00:29:42] that they've that's made them come here to Jefferson.

[00:29:45] But they have to have crystal be the lead on this as they get there.

[00:29:50] She needs to go and find somewhere to live while they're there.

[00:29:53] She sets up the the place that they're going to set up

[00:29:56] their office while they're investigating this case effectively.

[00:30:00] So we meet all of our other new characters

[00:30:03] as they go to the tongue and tail butchers to rent out an apartment from Jenny.

[00:30:09] Yeah, I loved how morbid this was actually.

[00:30:12] And I have to say, Jenny, the butcher, the owner of tongue and tail.

[00:30:17] I don't know what it is about her.

[00:30:19] I just love.

[00:30:21] Just her whole demeanor and the vibe, I guess.

[00:30:26] It's just really, really good.

[00:30:27] Yeah. And I love the fact the introduction is

[00:30:30] she's using a butcher's cleaver chopping up

[00:30:35] meat and walks through when the the bell goes on the door

[00:30:39] with the cleaver and you have kind of all getting a little bit tense

[00:30:43] and nervous and awesome or why should coming through here with a cleaver.

[00:30:47] And as she showed is is showing crystal to the room,

[00:30:51] she still got the cleaver.

[00:30:53] And it's like they go into her

[00:30:56] neighbor's room to see who it was, because we're looking for a murderer.

[00:31:00] There could be a murderer here and the owner holds a cleaver, you know, kind of

[00:31:06] whether it was protection or not, I don't know.

[00:31:08] But Jenny is really I just really liked the vibe in this first episode of Jenny

[00:31:14] and almost a weary look, you know, absolutely.

[00:31:17] I know just, OK, tell me what you want, and I'll see if I can do it.

[00:31:22] You know, don't make don't make me try too hard.

[00:31:27] Oh, yeah, I kind of get that.

[00:31:29] I think there's also there's also a little bit of the

[00:31:32] it feels like from the fact that we meet the other the other

[00:31:36] tenant in Jenny's place.

[00:31:38] It kind of feels like she's the type of person

[00:31:40] that takes in a lot of waves and strays.

[00:31:42] So she's maybe a little bit world where you have having another young girl

[00:31:45] coming in like crystal here, obviously down her luck saying

[00:31:48] she can't afford any other place in the town.

[00:31:51] Can she put her up?

[00:31:52] I think Jenny is kind of going, oh, here we go again.

[00:31:54] This poor thing.

[00:31:55] I'll put her up in in the room here.

[00:31:57] So there's maybe a little bit of

[00:32:00] oh, no, not again kind of thing.

[00:32:02] But I don't think it's I don't think it's out of a lack of love from Jenny.

[00:32:05] I think she's just going, oh, I hope this kid's all right.

[00:32:07] Basically, so I do like her a lot.

[00:32:10] And she points to her neighbor who is Nico.

[00:32:15] We don't see Nico at this stage, but Edwin and Charles

[00:32:19] pop their head through the door to make sure that

[00:32:22] Crystal and themselves are also living next door to a murderer.

[00:32:27] And I would put the investigation then that they begin here

[00:32:30] in the US is to go and ask

[00:32:34] the missing girls parents questions so Crystal can effectively

[00:32:39] read the situation, get a sense of

[00:32:44] of what's happened.

[00:32:45] I like the effect where her eyes go white when it shows Crystal

[00:32:50] connecting with those senses and to the spirit of the missing girl, Becky.

[00:32:55] Yeah, it's just a nice little effect, a little bit spooky as well.

[00:32:59] So I kind of like that.

[00:33:00] And it comes back to a pair of trainers that are in police lockup

[00:33:05] and that they found those.

[00:33:09] And again, whether she can read

[00:33:12] the trainers to get a sense of where Becky may have been.

[00:33:17] Yeah. And again, I like the fact that this comes to the tension

[00:33:19] between Crystal and Edwin again, where it's like, well,

[00:33:22] how are we going to get these from police lockup?

[00:33:24] And he just jumps through a mirror and brings them in two seconds.

[00:33:27] You know, because there's been this this whole conversation

[00:33:31] from Charles saying, look, you know, she's a really big help here.

[00:33:34] Imagine if we'd had that on, you know, one of the previous cases.

[00:33:38] And Edwin's like, yeah, but not always,

[00:33:40] because I can jump through a mirror, mirror hop and get this straight

[00:33:43] from the police lockup without having to do disguises and so on.

[00:33:48] The other side of that, when he comes back with the trainers, is that

[00:33:53] again, one of the other rules here is that iron makes them vulnerable

[00:33:58] as ghosts and makes them solid for a few moments.

[00:34:02] So it burns them.

[00:34:03] Do we see the Edwin has picked up a burn from the metal iron bars?

[00:34:10] So I like that this then progresses this investigation

[00:34:14] when she reads these runners and finds that they were last

[00:34:20] worn at the front of a house. Yes.

[00:34:23] You know, that they go and then scope out. Absolutely.

[00:34:28] Yeah, I like that you've turned it into reading the runners.

[00:34:30] So it almost seems like I think Edwin even says it is like,

[00:34:34] so are you going to speak to the trainers now?

[00:34:36] So it's like, no, no, I'm not speaking to the trainers.

[00:34:39] I'm just learning their last position from from my medium abilities.

[00:34:43] But that that is what leads them to the discovery of where Becky is.

[00:34:47] And Becky's with the witch, the witch Esther.

[00:34:51] Yes. And they find that out through the medium of cats.

[00:34:56] Yes. Which I kind of like this where Edwin starts talking to the cat.

[00:35:01] And, you know, we're told here that cats are tricky.

[00:35:05] But I just love the fact that the cats are completely foul-mouthed.

[00:35:09] Oh, totally. Well, this cat is at least.

[00:35:12] I think that's kind of, you know, it's indicative, again,

[00:35:14] of the Sandman universe.

[00:35:15] We had an entire episode of well, at least half of an episode

[00:35:20] in the last season in Sandman, which was dedicated to cats

[00:35:23] talking to each other and having voices.

[00:35:25] So here we have Edwin being able to speak to a cat here,

[00:35:29] having the conversation with them and then using magic

[00:35:32] to get the information out of him.

[00:35:33] You know, it's funny, isn't it?

[00:35:35] We're cat owners, as a lot of our listeners will know.

[00:35:38] And I always remember the suggestion coming to me that when we wanted

[00:35:42] to exercise our cats because he was getting a bit too weighty,

[00:35:46] I was being told by lots of people, get a leash and bring him for a walk.

[00:35:49] And I'm going, you can't put a leash on a cat.

[00:35:51] I've seen people do it now.

[00:35:53] But at the time, a couple of years ago, when people were suggesting

[00:35:55] us telling me to put a leash on my cat, I was going,

[00:35:57] just don't do that to a cat.

[00:35:59] And we still don't. We still don't.

[00:36:01] Still haven't.

[00:36:02] But I've seen other people with leashes on their cats,

[00:36:04] and I presume you start that with that when they're a kitten.

[00:36:07] But here Edwin using the leash on this stray cat

[00:36:11] to get the information out of him.

[00:36:12] To me, again, as a cat owner who would never do that to their cat,

[00:36:15] I can see why the cat's getting really angry about it.

[00:36:19] You know, it does feel like that kind of intrusive magic power

[00:36:22] that Edwin just used to get the information that he wants out of the cat.

[00:36:25] Well, that's it.

[00:36:26] And again, a few more rules here,

[00:36:30] you know, as to whether they may be important moving forward, I don't know.

[00:36:33] But that sort of almost lasso of truth

[00:36:38] that Edwin uses were, you know, it forces the cat to talk

[00:36:43] about the witch Esther and who the house belongs to.

[00:36:48] And that's not looked on favorably by cat kind effectively.

[00:36:53] You know, he says there's implications for what you're doing here,

[00:36:57] maybe some kind of thing.

[00:36:58] Also, with obtaining the runners, there is this talk

[00:37:01] that maybe they would possess someone, but that throws up flags

[00:37:06] in the afterlife if you possess if a ghost possesses a living being.

[00:37:12] And that is going to cause alarm bells in, I guess,

[00:37:15] hell or somewhere in the afterlife.

[00:37:18] He's kind of gone off and done this on his own

[00:37:21] because him and Charles and Crystal, you know,

[00:37:26] they've kind of had a falling out, really.

[00:37:29] You know, Edwin is disengaged here.

[00:37:31] Crystal, in the meantime, has gone back to the apartment

[00:37:36] where she actually meets Nico and you get all of a sudden this heartstopper

[00:37:40] moment with the pink background and the butterflies and flowers and so on.

[00:37:46] Instantly taken a hard start because Netflix, I think,

[00:37:49] use that GIF every week on their on their social media

[00:37:53] accounts of the of the little butterflies from Heartstopper.

[00:37:56] So that's exactly what I felt like when I saw when I saw that going out

[00:37:59] and Nico said, is it Nico and Crystal falling in love when they at first sight?

[00:38:04] Is that what it's supposed to indicate?

[00:38:06] I wonder if I'm sure we'll see that later on in the series as well.

[00:38:10] Absolutely. And the reason for this,

[00:38:12] but it's all been preceded by them going to a milkshake diner.

[00:38:18] I love this whole set up where everyone in the diner

[00:38:22] is kind of looking at Crystal because it looks like she's speaking to herself.

[00:38:26] Yes. And she kind of gets very self-conscious about it.

[00:38:30] Goes to the toilet and then suddenly we are reintroduced

[00:38:35] to the demonic possessor that is David.

[00:38:40] And here we find out he is the one that took her memories.

[00:38:44] Here, he says that Crystal's talents make her very special.

[00:38:48] And this great kind of.

[00:38:53] Style here, love the three big eyeballs.

[00:38:57] I love the fact that, you know, she's walking out of the toilet

[00:39:00] after sort of just splashing her face with water

[00:39:03] and it's into this sort of darkened chamber where you can't see the edges.

[00:39:08] It's really good.

[00:39:08] But ultimately, when she comes out of this,

[00:39:13] she's in the middle of the malt shop and Edwin

[00:39:17] and Charles have had to kind of hurry her out of there

[00:39:21] because she was speaking to David, the demon,

[00:39:25] in front of everyone who was taking videos and so on.

[00:39:29] And as they leave, the argument breaks out because Crystal is scurred.

[00:39:33] And we have Charles saying, do you not see she's still scourged?

[00:39:35] You know, this the case again, reiterating that the case isn't over for her

[00:39:40] because they haven't dealt with the demon properly.

[00:39:43] And he has her memories.

[00:39:46] But it also transpires that she.

[00:39:51] To some degree, let him in willingly

[00:39:54] because of her talents, yes, she wasn't to some degree.

[00:39:59] Yeah, not just a sub degree.

[00:40:00] She absolutely fell for him.

[00:40:02] Yes, let him in even knowingly that he was a demon.

[00:40:06] So but she let him in and then he wouldn't leave.

[00:40:09] So that was the issue.

[00:40:10] Yeah. And and again, because of being a medium, she was kind of used to this.

[00:40:16] So it didn't initially frighten her off as she kind of describes it.

[00:40:20] And that's possibly the reason why she let him in as well as that.

[00:40:25] She fell in love with him.

[00:40:26] Well, yeah, it's a toxic boyfriend.

[00:40:27] Sometimes you can't tell them early on in a relationship,

[00:40:30] which is what happened here with Crystal.

[00:40:31] He obviously is able to use his wiles to get this.

[00:40:35] It doesn't sound like it's the first time that Demon Dave

[00:40:37] has done this to a woman in the past.

[00:40:39] He's done it here to Crystal, and she thought she was safe

[00:40:41] because she's dealt with the occult and dealt with demons

[00:40:45] and dealt with dealt with ghosts in the past.

[00:40:47] So she felt she was safe.

[00:40:49] And then when she realized she wasn't, he wouldn't leave.

[00:40:51] So yeah, that's that's where she is right now.

[00:40:54] And that's again, it's Edwin kind of going, but hang on a second.

[00:40:57] That's kind of a key piece of information to let us know

[00:40:59] that you let the demon in.

[00:41:00] It makes it much more difficult to get rid of them

[00:41:02] and know exactly what he could do to you.

[00:41:04] So it seems like Dave could do more to her

[00:41:08] because he's stolen her memories.

[00:41:09] So, yeah, so it

[00:41:12] drives another wedge between them and leaves.

[00:41:14] That's Edwin go off on his own.

[00:41:16] But I do like that there is a moment between Charles

[00:41:20] and Crystal while they're left alone in the house

[00:41:24] where Charles talks about what he's been doing

[00:41:26] for the many years when she's worried that she'll never be able

[00:41:28] to reconnect with the family, that she doesn't even know

[00:41:30] whether she has or not.

[00:41:32] He says, look, we all want to connect with our families.

[00:41:35] I sit here once a week and check in on my parents

[00:41:38] and see how they're doing, even though my father wasn't someone

[00:41:41] that had a great connection with.

[00:41:43] I still check in and then I still want to make sure

[00:41:45] that they're all alive and all OK.

[00:41:47] And hey, they've been they're in their old age now.

[00:41:49] And all they do is just sit and watch TV and eat biscuits.

[00:41:52] But at least I know they're still there.

[00:41:54] So absolutely.

[00:41:56] And I think as well, when Edwin returns,

[00:41:58] there is a little bit of, in a sense,

[00:42:01] drawing a line in the sand about her, at least just erring

[00:42:05] what is niggling at Edwin.

[00:42:08] You know, Crystal says that she wants to help, you know,

[00:42:12] and Edwin kind of really says why these cases matter.

[00:42:17] It's because him and Charles didn't matter in life.

[00:42:20] That's his, you know, feeling because he was taken young

[00:42:25] and he probably I guess the fact that he was put out

[00:42:29] to pasture boarding school as well.

[00:42:32] You know, he wasn't entirely sure what affection his parents had for him.

[00:42:37] Exactly. And so yeah, like that's like that's part of the story

[00:42:40] that you get in the Sandman comics.

[00:42:42] He's left on his own over Christmas holidays.

[00:42:45] He's left there all the time.

[00:42:46] And he is brutalized, beaten before he's even realized

[00:42:50] who he is as a person.

[00:42:51] He's so young when he's when he's murdered.

[00:42:53] So he's also spent decades in hell.

[00:42:56] So, you know, this entire experience that Edwin's gone through

[00:43:00] is what makes him want to help other people with these kind of

[00:43:05] with these kind of questions and want and investigate

[00:43:09] the deaths of other people.

[00:43:10] That's what the dead boy detectives usually do.

[00:43:12] So yeah, it's the driving force behind everything.

[00:43:14] And it's why these cases matter, not because of that

[00:43:18] and because he's doing them with Charles.

[00:43:19] And interestingly, we don't necessarily find out too much about Charles's

[00:43:24] backstory. Yeah, yeah, we don't really find out much about Charles's

[00:43:29] death. It's really more about Edwin's death.

[00:43:31] But I suppose the big thing to take from it is what Edwin says.

[00:43:34] Both of them died and nobody investigated.

[00:43:37] Nobody found their bodies.

[00:43:38] Nobody was interested after they died from their perspective.

[00:43:40] Nobody was looking for them.

[00:43:42] Nobody found their murderers.

[00:43:43] Nobody found who killed them.

[00:43:44] So so, yeah, that's the big the big thing.

[00:43:47] They were forgotten in time.

[00:43:48] Yeah, exactly.

[00:43:49] But let us get on to our final case note, which is the saving of Becky

[00:43:55] from Esther, the witch.

[00:43:58] Yeah, the final final kind of moments because we have the standoff

[00:44:01] really at the house of Esther where Crystal is set it up.

[00:44:05] So she gets called away from the house.

[00:44:07] This this witch, they're now meddling in

[00:44:10] in areas that aren't that grace to meddle in, I suppose.

[00:44:14] No, Edwin's a bit nervous like that.

[00:44:17] Witches are dangerous.

[00:44:19] They are. Yeah.

[00:44:20] And I think he says, I know someone that was turned into a plastic bottle

[00:44:26] and they're still like that and can feel everything.

[00:44:29] Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[00:44:31] Exactly. But they leave Crystal outside because that's the exactly as

[00:44:35] as John described, that's what Edwin says to her.

[00:44:37] Look, you're human.

[00:44:39] You can a lot more damage can be done to you

[00:44:41] than can be done to the two of us were dead.

[00:44:43] So they go into the house to investigate and they find Becky

[00:44:47] she's being stored in a magical void

[00:44:50] underneath the house, which they find pretty quickly.

[00:44:52] But again, this is another one of those ones where the tone is

[00:44:55] you're just really unsure because it's been relatively upbeat,

[00:44:58] apart from some of the dialogue.

[00:45:00] And then you have Edwin crawling around in what looks like

[00:45:04] the bones of hundreds and hundreds of girls that have died,

[00:45:08] that children and children that have been that have died

[00:45:11] at the hands of Esther.

[00:45:13] So he does find Becky in here and is able to get her out.

[00:45:17] And again, we see Charles's use of the the bottomless bag of tricks

[00:45:22] being able to get as the whole pulley system to get them out there

[00:45:25] pretty, pretty easily.

[00:45:26] And Becky as well. Exactly.

[00:45:28] She's put in bundled into the bag.

[00:45:30] Yeah. Yeah. Because she can.

[00:45:32] Yeah, I like this.

[00:45:33] And we find out that Esther is a collector.

[00:45:36] She kind of uses children or young the young

[00:45:42] to keep herself young.

[00:45:43] And it just immediately threw me back to Neil Gaiman's Stardust as well,

[00:45:48] where you have that same the witchess with exactly

[00:45:53] who take the youth to keep themselves youthful.

[00:45:55] Yeah. But Esther does return seemingly

[00:46:00] kind of clued in really that the joint was being cased

[00:46:03] really by the dead boy detectives and Crystal.

[00:46:07] And so paralyzes

[00:46:10] and Crystal, who in order to get away

[00:46:15] and in order effectively to tackle Esther.

[00:46:19] We have a combination of Crystal connecting with her memories.

[00:46:23] Esther's memories to touch and then Charles possessing her

[00:46:30] in order to rescue them.

[00:46:32] So, you know, certainly the possession here

[00:46:36] is maybe not the best move to do.

[00:46:40] It gets flung out, actually, of Esther pretty quickly

[00:46:43] because she's banging her head against the side of a post on her house.

[00:46:47] Yeah. And I'm actually we see, you know,

[00:46:50] ultimately, she's very powerful in that she Charles

[00:46:55] quite quickly is depossessed from from Esther.

[00:46:59] And prior to that, you know, she is armed with a metal cane

[00:47:04] and seems to have no trouble flinging them across the front

[00:47:08] garden of her house.

[00:47:09] Well, it's an iron cane, which we learned was the one of the rules

[00:47:12] that ghosts can be damaged by iron.

[00:47:13] We learned that right back at the start of the episode

[00:47:15] when that's the the iron knife that they used on the

[00:47:19] the World War One version.

[00:47:21] So, yeah, so we know iron does does damage.

[00:47:23] She knows that as well.

[00:47:24] And that's what she's made her cane out of.

[00:47:26] So if any ghosts do attack her, she's able to defend herself

[00:47:30] pretty easily. But I do think Crystal using her power

[00:47:34] to to reach inside her mind, you know, Crystal even says herself,

[00:47:38] that's going to hurt you and me because you're not a willing

[00:47:40] participant here, basically.

[00:47:41] So so the two of them kind of exploding into her mind,

[00:47:45] I thought was a really good, a really good effect as well.

[00:47:47] That's cool. Yeah.

[00:47:48] And Esther kind of, you know, as they're making their escape from

[00:47:55] the front of Esther's house,

[00:47:58] Esther's kind of like, you know, you really didn't want to do that.

[00:48:01] Yes. So I'm not entirely sure we will have seen the last of Esther here.

[00:48:06] Oh, definitely not. No, no.

[00:48:07] I think she's a major character in in the show and here.

[00:48:11] I think we're going to see a lot more of her,

[00:48:12] I think particularly because she knows who these guys are pretty quickly as well.

[00:48:16] This is she knows them by name.

[00:48:18] She's able to call that out.

[00:48:20] I love the jealousy of her where she's kind of, as you mentioned,

[00:48:23] she's taking the beauty of youth to keep herself youthful

[00:48:26] and then looks at Edwin and Charles and goes, hang on a second.

[00:48:28] You get to stay alive and stay young forever.

[00:48:32] What's the problem here?

[00:48:33] I wish I could be like that effectively.

[00:48:36] So I thought that was a funny little moment in there.

[00:48:39] But overall, that closes the case.

[00:48:40] They've saved Becky.

[00:48:42] I love that they just took a moment in the episode to have Crystal

[00:48:45] wipe all the bad things that happened from Becky's mind.

[00:48:49] So Becky can go back with the trauma of what she'd been subjected to

[00:48:53] in the in that pocket universe or that little world that she was being kept in.

[00:48:57] And hopefully with the suggestion to stay away from Esther.

[00:49:00] Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:02] But that possession, ultimately, we see coming home to Roost

[00:49:08] right at the end in the lost and found department of the afterlife as well.

[00:49:15] Where the possession is ultimately reported to some chief

[00:49:19] supernatural person.

[00:49:23] It's the night nurse.

[00:49:24] OK, the night nurse. Yes.

[00:49:27] OK, I didn't know.

[00:49:28] By the very, the very well known to us,

[00:49:31] Ruth Connell, who we know from Supernatural.

[00:49:34] Absolutely recognized her from Supernatural.

[00:49:36] Yeah. And she just finishes the episode off with,

[00:49:42] you know, found the two naughty boys.

[00:49:45] There you are in Naughty Boys.

[00:49:47] Yes, exactly.

[00:49:48] So she knows exactly who who she's looking for now after the possession.

[00:49:52] So yeah, that's that again, something else to set the season.

[00:49:56] What are the things about the first episode of a show always,

[00:49:58] especially one that has such deep connections to a universe like Sadman.

[00:50:03] There's going to be lots of things that they're setting up for the season here.

[00:50:06] This is an eight episode season.

[00:50:08] So so we know there's going to be a big story

[00:50:10] that's going to be running through those eight episodes.

[00:50:12] So so you have to establish everything in the first episode.

[00:50:15] And there's lots to establish there.

[00:50:17] So so I'm glad the way they did it with that little cliffhanger

[00:50:20] that, you know, if you're watching on Netflix 10 seconds later,

[00:50:23] you probably know the payoff of what's happening there

[00:50:25] or it appears in the next episode.

[00:50:27] But John, is there any other notes, anything else

[00:50:29] you wanted to bring up from the episode that we haven't talked about

[00:50:31] in our major points?

[00:50:33] No, not really. Not from me.

[00:50:35] I think I'm still sort of trying to get into the swing of the

[00:50:42] the series, really, like only really seen the first two episodes so far.

[00:50:48] And I have to say, you know, from my side,

[00:50:50] absolutely enjoyed them.

[00:50:52] Yeah, I kind of really nicely surprised at this.

[00:50:57] And I'm glad that there's a real solid sort of addition here

[00:51:01] to the Sandman universe, at least what it seems like from this first outing for me.

[00:51:06] Yeah. And I would give this four massive eyeballs out of five.

[00:51:12] I just really enjoyed meeting Edwin and Charles Crystal.

[00:51:18] Loved Esther.

[00:51:19] I loved the Posse Mouth Kitties.

[00:51:22] I really enjoyed, yeah, just the intrigue of the set up.

[00:51:28] And I think you could really sense that this was a set up episode here.

[00:51:32] You know, David the Demon and of course then the Night Nurse.

[00:51:38] I just remember being a medicine as a kid.

[00:51:40] I think it was like a cough mixture.

[00:51:43] Yeah. And that's so yeah.

[00:51:45] But the Night Nurse.

[00:51:46] See, I've just got Night Nurse from from the Netflix Marvel shows.

[00:51:49] Well, exactly. Yeah.

[00:51:51] So I wouldn't I wouldn't have known the character's name except for

[00:51:54] I looked it up before the episode.

[00:51:56] So for me, four giant eyeballs out of five.

[00:52:00] Very good. Very good.

[00:52:01] That's that's pretty that's very positive.

[00:52:03] I'm like I'm enjoying it definitely.

[00:52:06] And I think it's I think it's a fun show so far.

[00:52:08] But I think coming from the Sandman, which went very dark

[00:52:11] over the course of its season that it's had so far,

[00:52:14] there were some very dark episodes I wouldn't recommend to anybody

[00:52:17] that that that gets chills from from horror shows.

[00:52:21] I didn't know what to expect at all from this show.

[00:52:23] And it's playful. It's fun.

[00:52:25] I can see the Netflix and there's some other Netflix shows

[00:52:27] that are similar to this.

[00:52:28] I think Lock and Key would be a show that I feel has a similar kind of

[00:52:33] style to it that plays a bit in the adult show

[00:52:35] and plays a little bit in the teenage teenage show.

[00:52:38] So I think it means you could probably have this with a whole family

[00:52:41] sitting down in front of it, watching it along with their older

[00:52:45] teenage kids, maybe.

[00:52:46] And I mean, I think there are certainly dark strands to the.

[00:52:49] There are. Yeah.

[00:52:50] And, you know, maybe that will get darker as it goes through.

[00:52:56] But I think the fact that.

[00:52:59] There is a lightness to it as well is is good.

[00:53:02] Yeah, there's something different there.

[00:53:04] And maybe, of course, it's just because we're getting old, John.

[00:53:06] You know, when I was 14, I was reading the Sandman.

[00:53:08] I was reading those comics with their adult content,

[00:53:10] with their adult conversations and the language that's in there

[00:53:13] and the sex that's in there and all of that stuff.

[00:53:16] Maybe it's because we're getting old

[00:53:17] that we think a show for teenagers shouldn't include

[00:53:20] the language that's in there or the sex that's in there.

[00:53:22] Well, there's no sex in the show so far, but the violence

[00:53:25] that's in there, the gruesomeness.

[00:53:26] Maybe it's just us.

[00:53:27] But if you think about it, when we were watching those shows

[00:53:30] and the movies at the time and reading the books at the time

[00:53:33] at 14, 15, 16 years old, it wouldn't have crossed our mind

[00:53:36] that it's not for us.

[00:53:37] So yeah, I mean, you might be getting old.

[00:53:40] I am eternally youthful.

[00:53:42] That is true. Yes, absolutely, John.

[00:53:44] You are reversing in age as it goes on.

[00:53:47] So 10 years podcasting and you look 10 years younger.

[00:53:51] Well, yes, maybe great stuff.

[00:53:53] Forever youthful in my mind, I guess.

[00:53:55] Exactly. But we would love to hear your thoughts

[00:53:58] about The Dead Boys of Texas.

[00:53:59] Whatever way you're watching it,

[00:54:00] you can send your thoughts into us at feedback at TVPodcastIndustries.com

[00:54:04] As we say, we aren't watching fully,

[00:54:07] we aren't watching the full season before we record our podcast.

[00:54:09] So just Mark, whether you're commenting on later episodes

[00:54:13] or whether you're commenting on episode by episode on your emails,

[00:54:15] or you can join us over on our Facebook group at Facebook.com

[00:54:18] slash groups slash TV podcast industries where you can leave your thoughts

[00:54:22] on each of the individual spoiler post episodes that will be up there

[00:54:26] by now as we're releasing the episode.

[00:54:28] Thanks so much for joining us for our coverage of The Dead Boy Detectives.

[00:54:32] Episode one, we'll be back to cover episode two,

[00:54:34] the case of the Dandelion Shrine and episode three,

[00:54:37] the case of the Devlin House next time on TV podcast industries.

[00:54:41] That should be a lot of fun, shouldn't it?

[00:54:43] Yeah, definitely.

[00:54:44] Good stuff.

[00:54:46] Yes, thank you so much, fellow dreamers, for joining us

[00:54:50] on this first episode of our podcast, looking at The Dead Boy Detectives.

[00:54:56] But of course, until next time, keep watching,

[00:55:00] keep listening and of course, keep dreaming.

[00:55:02] Bye bye.