Daredevil Born Again Episode 9 Finale

[00:00:00] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're talking about Daredevil Born Again Episode 9 Straight to Hell.

[00:00:30] Change my mind. Care to be more specific? No, I do not. Made a promise I was going to get you out of here alive. That's exactly what I'm going to do.

[00:00:57] Welcome back fellow Defenders to the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We are here talking about the final episode, Episode 9 of Daredevil Born Again Straight to Hell. I am one of your hosts, Vanessa! No, you're not Vanessa. Yeah, I know. Jotters. And who are you? Yeah, so John is you. Yes, that's me. And I am your other host, Derek.

[00:01:27] Only two of us this time. Chris couldn't join us because we actually, our fault, we moved the date on Chris. We had to have recording a little bit earlier this week and Chris couldn't join us. But he will be back for our wrap-up podcast when we close out Season 1 of Daredevil Born Again. So that's the cool part. This is the finale, but it is only the finale of Season 1. We know they're filming right now on Season 2 in New York, which is very cool. Yeah.

[00:01:50] And there's a little spoilery as well from the Fiskmeister, joined with Matt Murdock as well on YouTube. Yes, a little thank you to everybody for watching the season from Vincent Lofrio and Charlie Cox, where they show that they do have the set for Fogswell's gym back in Hell's Kitchen for next season. So we'll be getting a lot more of things the fans like, I think, in Season 2 of Daredevil Born Again, John, won't you? I guess so.

[00:02:20] I really enjoyed this season, to be honest. Yeah, absolutely. I know there's been a lot of a copy, paste, cut and rejigging around it, I guess. Yeah. But, you know, it worked well and it gave me a lot of good stuff that has led to this really good finale episode. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to Season 2 as well. Absolutely.

[00:02:47] But before we get to Season 2, of course, we do have to cover this episode, the finale of Season 1, a great episode of Daredevil Born Again. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast before we get on to that, though, please pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com and subscribe to any Fisk-supporting or vigilante-supporting podcast catcher of your choice to listen to all of our coverage of all the shows that we cover there on TV Podcast Industries. We just kicked off our coverage of The Last of Us this week as well, so we'll be on Episode 2 of that from next week.

[00:03:15] We want to hear your thoughts for our finale podcast and for our wrap-up podcast of Daredevil Born Again. Email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with your thoughts on the season or this episode. And you can also email us there for your correct answers to the Josie's Bar Quiz, the final question on which we'll be up later in the episode. And if you want to get in contact with us, you can also join us over at our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash TV Podcast Industries as well. Absolutely.

[00:03:43] But let us get into our spoiler-filled discussion of this final episode of Daredevil Born Again with the episode details. Derek, who gave us what, were, when, and how? Well, directed to the episode once again are Jason Benson and Aaron Moorhead. We mentioned them last week as they've directed the three episodes this season. They will be coming back to direct episodes in Season 2 of Daredevil Born Again as well, which is great to hear

[00:04:09] because these last two episodes particularly have had such a style about them that we really want to see come back next season. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, they're so good, these two. I can see why I absolutely adored the Moon Knight series. They really bring, you know, that style. But just really good TV as well to the episode. Yeah, yeah, definitely. This episode, once again, written by the new showrunner for the show, Dario Scarnapane,

[00:04:37] who I found out this week his name is pronounced that way, not the way I'm pronouncing him for the entire season. So sorry, Dario Scarnapane. And also written by Heather Belson. Heather Belson was a writer on The Walking Dead, which I'm a huge fan of, as anybody who's been following the podcast for the last 10 years knows. She wrote two episodes in Season 5 of the show, one of the best seasons of the show, and also wrote Episode 7 of The Sandman Season 1, The Doll's House, which we covered here on TV Podcast Industries. So some great credits there.

[00:05:04] I do hope we get Heather back to do some more in The Sandman maybe, and Season 2, which is coming out later this year, or potentially back for Daredevil Born Again next year. Yeah, definitely. The episode title's called Straight to Hell, which takes inspiration from the Clash song Straight to Hell, written in New York in the late 70s, early 80s. Do I have to say 1970s, 1980s now? Probably. Probably do, don't I? But a really interesting song.

[00:05:32] But also, because you do this when you watch episodes of these shows for podcasting, you always check out numbers to see if they're connected with comic books, which I just wanted to check that out. The vault, the foggy storage vault is number 266, and I was trying to see if that was connected to any Daredevil comic books. Daredevil 266 is an issue where Daredevil sits down for a cup of tea with Mephisto, or the devil, in hell. So I'm wondering, is that connected anywhere there? Mephisto is here, finally.

[00:06:01] That is the Mephisto connection for Daredevil. Yes, thankfully. The person behind it all is finally being revealed. Well, not yet. No, still being teased and still in Easter eggs. But that's the one I found for this season of Daredevil. John, let's get some real insight here. Do you want to give the synopsis for Daredevil Born Again Season 1, Episode 9, Straight to Hell? Sure.

[00:06:27] A year before the assassination attempt at Murph Fisk's black and white ball, Vanessa visits Benjamin Poindexter in a mental hospital and asks him to kill Foggy Nelson, who is working on a case which could expose her activities at Red Hook in exchange for his freedom. In the present, Poindexter escapes the ball and Murdoch is hospitalized. Fisk reveals to Vanessa that he knows she orchestrated Foggy Nelson's death. Hmm.

[00:06:57] Meanwhile, to drive chaos after the attempt on his life, Fisk cuts off the power to New York City and orders Book Cashman to kill Matt Murdoch at the hospital. But Matt escapes to his apartment where he finds Frank Castle, who has been asked by Karen Page to protect Matt after learning of Poindexter's escape. Matt and Frank respectively incapacitate and kill all the task force officers, the AVTF, except for Sergeant Cole North,

[00:07:27] who is revealed as the White Tiger's murderer. Matt resists killing him, but both of them must rapidly escape the apartment after a grenade is dropped by one of the surviving officers. The pair reunite with Karen Page after escaping the apartment, and both Matt and Karen back at the Punisher's hideout reconnect as they track down Foggy's case notes in storage, discovering that the Fisks are trying to establish a city-state in Red Hook.

[00:07:57] Mm-hmm. Meanwhile, the Punisher fights the AVTF in Red Hook, but is defeated. Powell tries to convince him to join them, but Frank Castle rejects him. Fisk's campaign director, Sheila Rivera, exposes Commissioner Gallo's attempt to undermine him, leading to him brutally killing Commissioner Gallo. The next day, with power and order restored to New York City, in a speech, Wilson Fisk declares martial law and outlaws vigilantism.

[00:08:27] Matt Murdock reunites with Cherry, Kim, and other police officers to save the city, while Fisk imprisons vigilantes in Red Hook, including Jack Duquesne and Frank Castle. In a made-to-credit scene, Frank Castle tricks a prison guard and begins to break free. While breaking limbs. Yeah, there's a lot of breaking going on there, yes. Yeah, yeah. He fell for an old trick there, did the old prison guard. Very silly. I wouldn't have done that.

[00:08:57] But I think part of the kind of setup for the episode and for the show, really, is that all these guys worship the Punisher. Exactly. Frank Castle's willing to talk to you. He's behind bars. It's fine. No problem at all. Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, I had my fingers and arm and wrist broken by Frank Castle. Well, yeah, hopefully not that much more. Can you sign my limp arm whilst you're at it? Exactly, exactly. But we talked a little bit about Foggy's case notes. We'll be on to our own case notes, John. Absolutely, yes.

[00:09:27] Our top five case notes for episode nine, Straight to Hell. First up, case note number one. Matt puts the pieces together. Yes, we have really Matt Murdock now understanding after the last episode, but also like he's been stewing on it, that Foggy was killed at the orders of Vanessa Fisk here. Yeah.

[00:09:55] And despite being hospitalized, you know, he is recovering after effectively saving Wilson Fisk's life. But he's obsessing over the Fisks and, you know, their hit on Foggy. He doesn't quite know why, but he has it in his gut. They are behind it. They are responsible.

[00:10:16] It was an ordered hit due to this case, which Foggy Nelson was celebrating prematurely. Yeah. And as we find out from Kirsten McDuffie, you know, he was going to actually file notes to actually call a halt to the case. Yeah.

[00:10:40] Which ultimately never got done because he was assassinated by Bullseye at the order of Vanessa Fisk. So we see at the start Vanessa making that deal with Bullseye to kill and shoot both the thief, Benjamin Kefaro, and his lawyer, Foggy Nelson, because it will shine a light too much on her business practices at Red Hook. Exactly.

[00:11:08] And a nice little touch in that flashback, in that one year earlier flashback, where she calls out the reason why she's able to do this offer with Poindexter is because of Agent Nadeem's corruption and the corruption plot that was all part of Season 3 of Daredevil. So it's kind of a jumping off point that allowed, from Season 3 of Daredevil, that allowed Poindexter to get out of jail or get out of prison. Yeah, absolutely. Interesting way of using that, I thought, to bring it that way back. Yeah, definitely.

[00:11:36] So I really kind of, I really like this sort of piecing it together. We get more sort of information as the episode goes on, certainly once Karen Page is back. Yeah. And we have both Karen and Matt going to the firm's storage to pull the case files from storage.

[00:12:04] Nice little moment there where they have the avocados at law and that little reminiscing between the two, between Matt and Karen around how that came about. But yes, ultimately what we find out is that Foggy was going to submit to call off the case

[00:12:30] because it was being done at essentially a Freeport. Yes. That was Red Hook. So Red Hook is effectively a Freeport. It was established by charter a number of centuries previously. But effectively it means that both the city of New York, the state of New York, and the USA has no jurisdiction in it.

[00:12:59] So the argument was the robbery that happened could not be prosecuted in Manhattan. And yes, that's the argument that Foggy had, but the Freeport itself meant there's no customs, no taxation, and anybody that works through there, any criminal activity that's going through there is pretty much untouchable. So the point made that effectively Vanessa could be money laundering through it, we hear that later as well,

[00:13:25] that she moved millions through Red Hook and now they can move billions through with this new renovation, I guess, that Fisk is doing to Red Hook. As the mayor, yeah. Yeah, really, really interesting idea that this has come through, and the fact that it's come through from this loophole effectively, that Foggy found and was going to submit to the courts for dismissal, and led to his death at the end of episode one. So what a cool way of weaving that story through the season. No, absolutely.

[00:13:55] Really, really enjoyed this sort of reveal. And also, what we have here in, you know, Matt's still in hospital as well at the start. I like the fact that Heather kind of just doesn't really understand Matt's obsession with Wilson and Vanessa Fisk. Yeah. She doesn't really understand that there's any issue here. I mean, she says to him, they were the ones being shot at. Exactly. What a great cover. Yeah.

[00:14:24] And in a sense, are sort of leaning in, especially what's happened to her with Muse, leaning into their Safer Streets initiative, and ultimately takes a post in the Fisk administration as the Commissioner for Mental Health. Yes. So, again, you see the face of Wilson Fisk, so it's like more claws into her shoulder, even though she doesn't know. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:51] And what I also love about this initial setup is when Matt comes out of his drug-induced drowsiness, I guess, the first thing he says is Karen, thinking that Heather is Karen initially. So she's on the back foot the second he wakes up. Yeah. He's back a year ago. He's back in the partnership with Karen Page, and she's thinking, hang on a second, doesn't even know who I am. But it gets worse from there, really. And you kind of feel when she leaves and says, I'll come back when you're less drowsy,

[00:15:20] is it almost like you'll never see me again? It's almost like a little breakup there between the two of them. It is, but I mean... Like, definitely not. She will definitely be involved with him at the start of next season until Fisk does kill her for what she's doing. Yeah, I mean, I guess the main thing is we just don't really see her again until she's accepting the job from Wilson Fisk. Yeah. Yet, the apartment that she has been staying in quite a lot, or where we've seen her quite a lot, has just been blown sky high. Yeah.

[00:15:49] So you just wonder. You don't really necessarily see that she's concerned about where Matt is. You know, he's gone from the hospital. So, like, does she go back one day? Yeah. No, I get it. You don't need to see any of this. It all takes place every one night as well. So she may have been giving him one night, and then was going to turn up the following day. So she may see him the next day, effectively. But there is one other big thing that happens as well,

[00:16:16] which is Buck is set to kill Matt in the hospital. I think this is also quite interesting, because this is Fisk putting together the pieces of how he can use Matt. He knows now that Matt has learned that Vanessa's involved. This could look really bad for him if Matt is alive. So he chooses to say, well, what if that wonderful heroic lawyer from Hell's Kitchen who saved my life succumbed to his injuries? That would make him a hero, not another vigilante on the street.

[00:16:46] Well, he says a dead hero is better than a live vigilante, as he sort of orders Buck to go and kill him. Yeah. I do like that Buck turns up with the Get Well Soon bag with the little teddy. Yeah. You know, as cover. So he looks real. Yeah, but it was reminding me of the Terminator. Yeah, no, exactly. Terminator 2, when Arnie turns up with the big bouquet of roses and has a shock. But he just has a syringe. Yeah.

[00:17:14] He didn't need to go out and buy all of that stuff, but just in case. But ultimately fails in his task. I like the fact that you have Matt zoning in on that sort of very purposeful, rhythmic, deliberate steps that stand out above sort of the chaotic rushing to and fro of the nurses and gurneys and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah. No, I did enjoy that. But, yeah.

[00:17:41] Again, even I know we'll come to it again, but the fact that then you have that moment with the fight in the apartment because Matt Murdock escapes back to his apartment. But you have Karen saying, you know, that's pretty ballsy of Fisk that he's gone after Matt Murdock, not Daredevil. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So that's another interesting little kind of development there. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:09] But I think we can get on to our case note number two. The Kingpin never left. Yeah. Rather than the return of Kingpin here, what we realize and what we find out, because partly to do with Matt's investigation, partly his actions here, we find out the Kingpin never left. It's always been the Kingpin. It's never been Mayor Fisk at all. He's just been the Kingpin who became Mayor.

[00:18:35] Part of that's in the discussion with Vanessa where he's talking about that you move millions through there. Now we can move billions. And the two of them are now completely aligned. He's telling her all those things that happened, every single bit of it, that was just architecture for me to create what I wanted. I needed to create in Red Hook what we needed to create to further our business effectively.

[00:18:55] And then he takes the assassination attempt that happened from Poindexter and turns it into this new policy, this safer streets policy, which you feel would have come in in the future anyway. Just as his vigilante task force were getting bigger and bigger, you feel this is the way he was going to go. But that's a great moment when he's in the room surrounded by his task force and Commissioner Gallo.

[00:19:18] And he's calling out for them to effectively avenge the assassination attempt that happened to him. But it's go out in the street. Nobody can't. No due process. All of that's out of the way. Commissioner Gallo says, you're going to be condoning lethal force soon. And he goes, no, no, I'm not going to be condoning it. I'm going to be encouraging excessive force to be used. That's the only way this can happen. There you go.

[00:19:45] This is what happens when you've got Kingpin right up there as in this kind of leadership position in New York. Yeah, no, absolutely. I love this reveal. I love the fact that ultimately those bloody fists. Yes, it was beating up Adam, but it was also it was the Kingpin. You know, it was the Kingpin doing that, not Murphisk.

[00:20:08] And I really, really enjoyed how he talked about, you know, effectively using the mural position, the city and its resources and structures as this architecture. And, you know, and yes, I did that.

[00:20:26] He started off and wanted to save the city, but that opportunities presented themselves and he took those opportunities and in order to sort of look about redeveloping the Red Hook district and beyond what it is.

[00:20:41] And, you know, being able to blackmail or bribe people in positions of wealth, positions of power in order to sort of put his plans in place. So, yeah, it's such a great kind of way of looking at it. The whole premeditatedness of the Kingpin here is really good. And we do mean for the writers of the show, we don't want to be like Kingpin, right?

[00:21:11] No, exactly. OK, great. I also question, you know, he has made this decision to become mayor of New York rather than president of the United States, for example. It's kind of interesting because what's been revealed here is that he has access to this free port, right?

[00:21:27] As we said, the president of the United States wouldn't have that, wouldn't have a place that isn't covered by New York law or by national law to run criminal elements through, let's say. So is Fisk even more powerful than the president? Because he won't be subject to any kind of tariffs at all. I think he has more freedom to operate as a mayor rather than as the president of the United States. Yeah.

[00:21:55] Because that is a different position. It has a different set of eyes upon you. New York, however, is, you know, the preeminent or one of the preeminent cities of the USA in terms of power and wealth, size, economy.

[00:22:13] And, you know, it's a driver of the U.S. economy wealth as much as, say, San Francisco is or, you know, other part or the big important cities in the USA like Chicago. So it gives him freedom to operate as kingpin in a sense.

[00:22:35] Yes, it's high profiled, it's high powered, but it also affords him enough cover to not relinquish being kingpin. Exactly. And indeed, Red Hook as a free port will be as this almost like, you know, city state means that, again, it gives him cover.

[00:23:00] You know, I like that how all this plan that spills out happens where, you know, he is effectively trying to manipulate and the attempt on his life in order to bring chaos, you know, to cut off all the electricity. Electricity.

[00:23:17] It's so that he can have wide ranging powers of curfew and martial law so that he can whip up chaos at the same time in order to put this in place. So he's trying to create the problem that he will also be the solution to.

[00:24:05] Exactly. And so on.

[00:24:36] And Sheila, where he asks her to send all those people in the office of mayor who are not on board with him, aren't loyal to him and his plans and to send them home effectively to purge them of the mayor office. Exactly. Because we need loyalists in here.

[00:24:58] And then you get that great moment where she's speaking with Commissioner Gallo in the corridor, where, you know, he's basically wanting after that whole thing has happened in Kingpin's office about martial law and that there will be no body cams or due process that will be used by the task force.

[00:25:19] You know, he's looking then to go above the mayoral position to the governor position of the state of New York or even to the state Supreme Court in order to rein him in. And he believes that Sheila can support him in that, you know, that she knows what's going on and will be able to help him. And she suggests this while she's speaking to him.

[00:25:46] But again, what we see later is very interesting. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the whole thing about Sheila's character and how Wilson's been able to identify the type of person she is and how it can benefit him most. She said it earlier on. She said it to Daniel. I've been here throughout many administrations. I'll be here after he's gone.

[00:26:08] She thinks because of all the people that she's dealt with in the mayoral office in New York and in the real world, there's a lot of very interesting people who've gone through that office over the years. And now she's dealing with Wilson Fisk and knows, well, in a few years time, he'll be gone and I'll still be here like I was after the previous guy before and the guy before that and the guy before that. You know, that is Sheila's superpower.

[00:26:31] She is able to ride the wave of whoever comes in, guide them through the oncoming storm, whatever it is, and then still be there after they leave. But Wilson Fisk knows that's her loyalty, knows that that's what she's good at and knows that she has her ear to the ground and knows everybody on one side and everybody on the other side. She knows all the information. So he uses that to his benefit to get all of those people sent away and strengthen his office, make it even more powerful than it is.

[00:26:59] And Sheila has got that choice when Gallo comes to her. She has that choice now after seeing everything that Wilson Fisk has done. Does she choose to go up against him or does she choose to ride the wave again and send down Gallo? Like we know, we've said it before, we know Sabrina Gafferra all the way back to the beginning of our podcasts in Gotham. She was a great character, the chief of police back in the first season of Gotham. So we've always known there was something else there.

[00:27:28] She's not a background actress. She's not someone you'll stick on screen to have a line here or there. So it's great that in the final episode, at least, she has a moment which sets her up for even more greatness in season two. And we see that for most of the characters, but it's great to see it for her there. I thought... Absolutely. Yeah, I thought they just were underutilizing an actress who has done some great stuff in the past. And here we have a great moment for her. I mean, this was a big moment. I know we'll come at it later with one of our other case notes. Yes.

[00:27:56] But, you know, the consequence of her undermining Gallo is pretty significant. It is, yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's a big choice to make. You know, you do get the sense that she, you know, has had in the back of her mind, well, what's he doing? Is this right for the office of myrrh? But it's always about the office of the mayor. Yeah. And she is willing to support him in that position whilst he holds it.

[00:28:25] But we see her reaction at the end when Fisk is in a winning position. You see everybody else react to that in a very different way than she does. She's lying against the wall crying about what she's done because she knows she's now made a choice. It's not just about the office of mayor. She is now supporting Fisk. Yeah. So she's made, I think, in these moments, I think she's made one of the first choices in her life to be completely behind the mayor who's in office right now, not the office of the mayor. Yeah. If that makes sense. Agreed.

[00:28:55] Yeah. So, yeah, a really interesting moment in there as we have the return of the kingpin. Or, as I said before, the kingpin's never left. The reveal of the kingpin has always been there. Yeah. Definitely. Let us get on to our case note number three. Oh, yes, we should. Have you got your coffee ready, John? I do. Not. You always should have coffee ready when Frank's around. Yeah, exactly. Frank and Daredevil team up.

[00:29:25] Although, not so much team up. I mean, they do team up. But Frank is effectively asked by Karen to be Matt's babysitter after she hears that Poindexter has escaped. Yeah. And, but I do like the pitter-patter between these two. Oh, so good. It's just, you know, it's kind of this mutual dislike but respect for one another. You know? So, where's your costume? You know?

[00:29:54] Are you the nightgown man now? You know? Because he's wearing his hospital nightgown still. And you just get the retort back from Matt saying, was that haircut just for me kind of thing? You know? So, I love the little pitter-patter here between them. Again, I love the Punisher calling him Red. I just think it's such a good name. And it's so Punisher.

[00:30:21] And it's so Jon Bernthal in terms of how he delivers it. It's really, really good. I always forget because we've seen Jon Bernthal in so many things. He's been in so many movies. And, of course, Walking Dead where we saw him first. And a couple of seasons of Daredevil and his own seasons of his show. I always forget he has such a different personality when he's playing the Punisher than he has in other things. He's not just gruff bad guy. He has this really interesting delivery to how he says his lines.

[00:30:51] Much more different than in other shows and other movies that he's been in. I think he's fantastic here. Really, really like him. And that running gag about the coffee, which is really interesting. The whole city's without power. And you're here living in your apartment. And you don't even have a way to make coffee. It's like the pushback from Matt going, well, not all of us live in bunkers. Because the end of the world is coming, effectively. Absolutely. That's a great little moment.

[00:31:15] But also, if you remember, all the way back to the Punisher and Karen's relationship, there's always been that thing about them two of them going for coffee. Yeah. That Frank has always wanted Karen to go for coffee. And there's a great little moment when they're healing their wounds later on when Frank is sorting himself out and says, you know, there's... Yeah, he's back at his fallout shelter. Yeah, saying that a cup of coffee can heal everything in the world. Hey, Karen, do you want a cup of coffee? And she pauses because she knows there's an added waste to him asking her the question and says no.

[00:31:45] Yeah, exactly. We like that. But anyway, there's other things to talk about with Frank and Denis. But it was really good. I mean, I also do like the fact, you know, you have these opposites here with or so they think they are. But I mean, at least sort of at one level, they are opposites. You know, you have Frank asking Matt, why would you take a bullet for that a-hole, you know? And you don't get an answer back from Matt.

[00:32:11] And as, you know, they both recognize that there's a ton of the task force officers waiting outside and they hear them coming up. You know, you have all the way through the fight, effectively Matt wanting Frank to play nice and Frank saying, I'm not going to play patty cake, you know, with them. It's guns out, knives out, and I'm going to take them out. Yeah.

[00:32:40] And I think, you know, that's... He pretty much does. Well, he does. He does. He kills them. I do also have that little movement, sorry, just as Matt goes off to get into his DD costume. And that's when Frank says to him, are you not going to fight them with your ass hanging out of the back of your outfit? But just a finger up for Matt as he walks away. He doesn't even say anything. He just points the finger back behind him. It's really good.

[00:33:05] But the fights do really feel like the Punisher TV show when the Punisher is executing everybody that he has in his way. He doesn't just break someone's teeth out on the table, which he does as well. He also puts a bullet in their head as well. So he kills everyone around him. This is where Matt's injury comes into play, I feel, because I think he would have been able to stop Frank from killing people.

[00:33:29] But he is one-armed, and he's using that to use his baton on the task force members that are around him. So he's trying to shout out to Frank, saying, stop killing the people around you. But he's not stopping Frank, because he's at a lower level than he would normally be because of his injury. I mean, the only time he does stop him is when effectively the fight is finished, and the Sergeant Cole North is pinned with a knife to the wall.

[00:33:59] And, you know, it's apparent that he was the one, the cop that killed the white tiger. Yes, we get an action resolution to one of the story points. And again, yeah, exactly. And again, though, it's that he, Matt steps in to effectively stop the Punisher from shooting Cole. And he's like, why are you going to protect him now?

[00:34:25] What about him as he just fires then off to the right and shoots and kills one of the officers that Daredevil had taken down without killing them? So in the sense, you know, Cole tells Daredevil he was responsible for killing the white tiger. Daredevil effectively knocks him out.

[00:34:47] But then the entire apartment is taken out by, I'm assuming, one of the officers that Daredevil knocked out has regained consciousness and is trying to, I don't know, at least, I guess, protect himself. But sends a grenade through, which ultimately takes out the whole top floor of the apartment.

[00:35:14] I love that both Matt and Frank run, jump off the balcony. I love that you see Daredevil grabbing Frank Castle whilst throwing the billy club as that zip line, you know, and crashing down onto the car below. Swing out. But I mean, it's some explosion. Well, it's a secondary explosion. I guess it's the gas that's in there.

[00:35:38] But it effectively lights up like Nakatomi Plaza at the top of that apartment block. Yeah, yeah. You know? Maybe Matt left the gas on. Actually, maybe Frank was trying to use the gas to make his coffee and left the gas on. Maybe it was that. But I'm just thinking of the officer that did release the grenade went, oh. No, no, I think that's part of what Cole said because Cole North says, I have no problem dying with the men that are around me.

[00:36:07] The fact that I'm dying with them is reward enough is what he's saying. So I think that's the feeling of everybody else in that room. If they're part of this task force, they're fighting alongside their real brothers, not just the police force. They're fighting alongside everybody that is on this task force trying to take down Daredevil. So I think that's a member of this team that was willing to sacrifice everybody in that room, anybody that wasn't killed by Daredevil. So, yeah, I think that's what happens.

[00:36:37] And, I mean, I think just then, you know, Frank Castle sort of round up here on this episode, at least within the body of the episode. And it is that, you know, he's hearing the walkie-talkie chatter and he's hearing that all the task force are sort of pulling back to Red Hook. And he goes over there to effectively, I guess, take them out.

[00:37:07] I mean, Daredevil goes as well, but is pulled back by Karen. Exactly. That we need to be smarter than this. There's too many of them. It'll end up like Josie's with everyone getting killed. Yeah. Whereas Frank goes in because he does like a good scrap. And he doesn't have a Karen at his side as well, remember. He doesn't have a Karen. Exactly. But ultimately he gets captured and we have Officer Powell here then looking to try and, in a sense, recruit him to the task force.

[00:37:34] Because he doesn't need to hide there and you can do what you do. But with us, we all follow you. We all idolize you. And they're all there with their Punisher skulls on the front of their uniform. And he's just like, no, this is a circus and you're a clown. And you have no idea what drives me and why I do this. You know, you don't know my pain.

[00:38:02] And effectively, you know, it's a no from me, says Frank Castle. Well, yeah. Yeah. But there is some brutal movements as he comes in here. Going knives out like we see him put knives through multiple people's skulls in here.

[00:38:17] We know, as we said, when the reveal of the return of Frank Castle, we know that there is going to be an upcoming one shot of Frank Castle, of the Punisher, which is being written in collaboration with Jon Bernthal. Well, we had said that this is probably him going on the offensive to take out everybody that has been using his ideals or what they think is his ideals. So this scene between himself and Powell does seem to be the setup of that.

[00:38:47] How dare you think that you know who I am? How dare you think you know my pain effectively is what Punisher is saying. So that's probably where we're going to see him next. I don't know when it's going to be filmed, though, because they are filming season two of Daredevil Born Again, hopefully for release in 2026 and have announced that one off for the Punisher as well. So we might see that in between the two. We might see it just after the second season of Daredevil Born Again. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah.

[00:39:16] I mean, but it'll be it'll be great when it comes out. And I think, you know, but ultimately what we have is Frank jailed here in Fisk's private jail. I mean, it almost looks like a display cabinet of, you know, because you do see Jack Duquesne, the swordsman. But you see some of the other more the wealthy members of society. Yeah, I guess some of the ones that didn't take Fisk's offer. Yeah. Locked up.

[00:39:42] I like that one of them as Fisk and Vanessa walked past also gives them the finger. Yes. As they walked past. I was waiting for Harold the Duck to be in one of the cages. Yeah, it's almost like a zoo. Yeah. Do you know? It's like the collector's. Yeah, exactly. But Frank ends up there as one of the collected vigilante for Wilson Fisk. Well, it doesn't end up there if you've seen the post-credits. He probably will be getting out of there pretty quickly. That is true. But we will come to the post-credits. We will. We will.

[00:40:12] Let us get on with that to case note number four. I'm crushing your head. I'm crushing your head. This gets its own point. And we've already talked about it a little bit on the lead up to it. But this was brutal. It really was. And I mean so realistic. Well, yeah, I guess so. I haven't really seen something like this happen in real life.

[00:40:37] But the setup of it is that Sheila actually does reveal the conversation that she had with Commissioner Gallo, the only person really that's been standing in the way of Fisk the whole time. Fisk worked around him to get the task force set up, ignored all of his warnings, ignored the strike action that was happening, blackmailed him with the idea that he had access to someone that was very special to Gallo, threatening in a way. So Gallo was always pushing back against Fisk.

[00:41:07] But this was the last straw, I guess, the straw that broke the camel's back for Fisk. Or ripped the jaw from his face. Yeah. But the point is that with Sheila giving him this information, Fisk goes, right, it's time to make a proper example of Gallo. So, yeah, I mean, that was the most, one of the most surprising things about it is that he did it in front of the task force officers.

[00:41:36] And in particular, like once he actually had done this, when like, like, so I did think he was just going to crush the head like a melon because he was pushing in and had it creaking. But it's like he moved the hands around and ripped the jaw off and sort of started to scalp him effectively. But it's just the effect of Commissioner Gallo's face. It still looked like him, but with his jaw guard.

[00:42:03] It was really kind of just well done. But it was brutal. I mean, this was really pure, unadulterated violence. Yes. And it was in front of all these task force members who look genuinely uneasy after it. And like Luke, who had just, you'd just seen as Gallo's new driver and who had brought him there. You know, Gallo was saying, oh, I've not seen you since you're a rookie.

[00:42:33] He's kind of like, oh my goodness. You know, what is this? Like they did look genuinely uneasy and surprised at this. Yeah, well, what we do learn in as the episode is rolling out, we do learn that we have the task force where the people that were that Fisk had all the files on all the people that had been kind of pushed out of the police force because of the things that they'd done, the things they'd gone against. And then the other people that have been recruited, they're the people that have the kind of stamp of Punisher on their neck.

[00:43:03] They're not the people that have the full on tattoos and the full on armor with the Punisher look on the front of it. It looks like each of them gets a tattoo when they're brought in. So this looks like a younger group. Yeah, definitely. This looks like the new recruits, which that's what I mean. Suddenly we're like, oh, what have I just joined? Well, exactly. Because literally the mayor has just ripped open the head of the commissioner for police. Yeah.

[00:43:32] I'd also say, no, maybe it's just me. But if I walked into that room to begin with, I would have been going, hang on a second. Why am I in the Dexter kill room? Am I going to die here? Exactly. You would think Gallo would have sort of spotted that really, for sure. Because there is an interesting line from the kid who's his driver. He's recruited by Fisk. You know what it's like? You're just trying to keep yourself alive, basically. He kind of says to him that the decision was either you go along with Fisk or that's probably the end of your career. So that's what it feels like.

[00:44:00] All of these recruits probably had that decision, go along with Fisk. Well, there was a genuine recall from one of them as well. And rightly so, because it was really brutal and really violent. And it really, I think this to me summed up as well. The Kingpin had never left. Well, yes. As much as anything else. It was just so brutal, barbaric and base. Absolutely.

[00:44:26] Because the things that Kingpin in the Netflix series is remembered for is crushing a guy's head in a door in Echo. He's known for crushing a guy's head who didn't give ice cream to his would-be daughter in Echo. Echo, he's known for these acts of absolute brutality. And now the Disney Plus show has added another layer of brutality on top of that. An unflinching camera look at the crushing of someone's head.

[00:44:50] I think Darius Gardapani mentioned this, that there was something coming up in this episode that they'd never been able to do before. I also saw Chio Hadari Coker, the showrunner of Luke Cage, praising this final episode of Daredevil, going, not only did you do the things we wanted to do, you also had the budget to deliver on things that we definitely wanted to do, but couldn't do in the Netflix shows back in the day. So well done to them for having something this brutal in this episode.

[00:45:17] It shows you that they are not holding back at all for this season of Daredevil. There's a couple of other things that happen in and around this moment where we see the real Fisk, I suppose, or we see him murdering Gala, we also see Daniel stepping up and, with the help of Buck effectively, blackmailing the council to get their full support for the Safe Streets bill. Wow, does Daniel look like a proper man now.

[00:45:43] He doesn't look like the social media Twitter guy that's at the bottom of the team. He's blackmailing everybody in that room and he's using terminology to cover up what he's really saying to these council people that we probably wouldn't be able to place in the Sopranos itself, where he's saying to them, oh, we know exactly where your money is. We know exactly how you've been ripping off this city. And if you have any problems with it, maybe just let us know and we have these one-to-one meetings with Kingpin.

[00:46:11] Yeah, and Buck says our office will reach out to yours. Yeah, effectively this enemy list. Yeah. No, I thought this was really good. And I think this whole sort of passage of the episode as well, you know, the murder of Gallo by Fisk intercut with Frank being beaten by, effectively his admirers, you know, then connected with this further undermining of the structures within the city

[00:46:38] by effectively blackmailing and holding to ransom the council through the activities that the individuals have done. Yeah. I mean, you know, in order that they support this Safe Streets Initiative, or Safer Streets Initiative, which is coming off the back of this cut of the power, the riots that you see interspersed. So it was a real dark passage of this episode, I thought.

[00:47:07] It was really, really good, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think we can go on to our case note number five. Final note of the final episode. Yes, I think it has to go with the words of Daredevil. Yes, indeed. Resist, rebel, rebuild. We are the city without fear. You know, after Karen's kind of talked Matt down from sort of going on impulse

[00:47:37] and sort of headfirst into the whole Red Hook area, you know, she's kind of brought that sobriety of, we need to play it smart. You know, you're hurt. He has the courts and cops under his belt. We need an army to resist, rebel, and rebuild. Yeah. It comes back to Matt Murdock and the accident and, you know, why he became Daredevil,

[00:48:06] why he would wear a mask. You know, was it the mask that made him feel better? And it's no, it was the thought of the mask helping me. Yeah. It was that. But we see here that the headquarters for this resistance is going to be Josie's bar here. I like that moment. Yeah, absolutely. Just because, you know, the previous episode, I think, they had come back to Josie's

[00:48:35] asking about Foggy and his last moments there around why he had opened the bottle of whiskey. Yeah. So that was kind of nice to see it coming to Josie's bar to be the headquarters for this resistance or rebellion. Yeah, absolutely. You know, the whole voiceover from Matt effectively saying, this is our city. We can take it back together. We need to have an army here.

[00:49:02] The initial army is going to be the other members of the police force who aren't part of the task force, I guess. So we had Cherry, of course, who's been on the side of Matt the whole time. We had Inspector Kim, who we saw working the bank job or not working the bank job, but looking over the bank job. And we also have some other various officers around. They do flash to one of the more recent recruits in the task force,

[00:49:27] the one that has the mark on his neck and questioned the looter getting shot. Yeah. We have it highlighting him as well. So he may be somebody else that's recruited. We also, interestingly, cut to Poindexter, who's out now. And that seemed to indicate that maybe we'll have Bullseye teaming up with Matt versus Kingpin in the future. Even though he's the one that killed Foggy, maybe he'll be looking to team up.

[00:49:54] And maybe that would be a way to get Bullseye back into next season. Yeah, absolutely. But certainly Bullseye is on the run. He is a vigilante. So, you know, he's in the crosshers of this task force and Wilson Fisk. I like as well that, you know, sort of Matt's manifesto here, or Daredevil's manifesto, as he's saying it, it, you know, sort of butts up is the antithesis of you have Fisk speaking to New York City,

[00:50:24] you know, saying that the power is back on. But that, you know, my safer streets initiative is that vigilante activity is now illegal. There will be a curfew at 8pm. There'll be martial law. Gallo resigned. He wasn't, didn't help you in your hour of need like I did. The rule of law has been returned so that you can have this freedom,

[00:50:52] even though he's talked about martial law and curfew. Yeah, the city that never sleeps. Everybody goes home at 8pm. I know. I think there would be a riot. I was trying to think, was there a time in New York, and any of our wonderful fellow defenders who may remember better than I do, I think the Summer of Sam was the only time they've had a curfew in New York, when there was that murder back in the 1970s, where there was some kind of curfew. I just remember from a movie. Yeah, I do, actually. So I may be wrong.

[00:51:21] There was the Summer of Sam movie, and there was the investigation into that killing. But I think that was the only time I can remember there being curfew being put in place in New York. Of course, COVID would have had curfews too, as we all experienced those ones. But that was more locked in. So I just can't remember, was there another time? Or did that even exist? Or was that just made up for the movies? I don't know. I don't know. But I mean, you just think, I mean, yeah, you can go into lockdown, which is a form of curfew like they did with COVID.

[00:51:50] But yeah, curfews. But I just like everything he says is about limiting people's freedom. Yes. But he says this brings you, you know, this vibrant democratic city where you can live free. Yeah. But actually, he's suggesting the absolute opposite with all his rules of curfew, martial law, and all that, you know?

[00:52:18] It's just counter to what Matt Murdock is talking about. Exactly. His manifesto. I also like that Vincent T'Onofio is trying to put a dot on it at the end, a full stop on it at the end with a smile, but he still can't get the smile right on camera. He's never been able to do that, but people still trust him for some reason. There is also one interesting moment where we pan across the other people who've been captured. I guess they are also going to come into play.

[00:52:47] We mentioned Jack Duquesne is in a cage in there. He's probably also going to be joining the Resistance, I hope, because that's a really interesting character to use. Yeah. And he's only been given little bit parts here in Hawkeye and in Daredevil Born Again. Interestingly, I found out recently he's in Better Call Saul, a show we never watched, but he's a main character in that. So it'll be great to set him up to be a main character in Daredevil, wouldn't it? Yeah, definitely. For next season.

[00:53:12] But what I found interesting was Vanessa and Fisk walk past all those cages and eat dinner underneath the rabbit in a snowstorm, the bloodied rabbit in a snowstorm painting. In the room where everybody's in cages around them. So just like Fisk had been doing with Adam going down and eating his meals, now himself and Vanessa are sharing champagne in a beautiful meal in the room where there's cages all around them with people that have been up against them. Yeah.

[00:53:39] So truly the two kingpins together here at the end. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Excellent stuff. Any notes for the episode? Well, just because we've been doing Whiskey Watch all season, as we always have done on the Defenders. That is true. Yes. The first time we see the Fisks, just after they've come back from the bowl, Fisk is pulling some decanted whiskey out for Vanessa. She drinks it and coughs. That's how you know it's whiskey on TV. It's never smooth enough on TV.

[00:54:08] Everybody drinks and coughs. But no, we just don't get to see a label for it, of course, because it's been decanted. But I presume it's a very expensive whiskey. I guess so. Yeah. I mean, we do get Mulvalney's as well referenced again with the investigation into sort of Foggy's last moments on the case. It's so interesting that Mulvalney's has become such an important part of the season. Somebody definitely was listening to our podcast when they wrote the episodes. They do Whiskey Watch on the Defenders podcast.

[00:54:38] Let's make whiskey the fundamental key to unlocking Foggy's investigation. I think so.

[00:54:45] And I mean, I guess just the final note, we talked about it up top, but there is the post-credit scene that we get here where we have Frank Castle sort of using, you know, the oldest trick in the book of getting to know his captor and then breaking his fingers, his wrist, and then pulling him through and snapping and breaking his arm.

[00:55:08] And then pulling him through and breaking his fingers. It's just when you see stuff like this in TV shows where, you know, you're going, oh, that is bending at an angle it shouldn't be bending at when it's his wrist. And then it's like, oh, my God, he's got his arm as well, you know. You know, I was in my head. I'm kind of thinking, you know, Frank used his masculine wiles because that's basically what he's doing. He's using this.

[00:55:35] The most masculine man in the world is telling another guy that absolutely worships him to just come a little bit closer. I know. I was just shaking your hand. I was just hoping that, you know, Anthony, for all the trouble he's gone through, that he does actually have the keys for Frank to be able to open his cell. It's either going to be that or Frank will make an actual skeleton key to get himself out of there. Gee, yeah, maybe. That could be it. Indeed.

[00:56:02] But no, I have no other notes to talk about for this episode. It's just a really, really interesting episode. Yeah. No, me neither. And on to our defense. Derek, do you defend Daredevil Born Again? Season one, episode nine, straight to hell. I loved this episode. What a great way to close out season one of Daredevil Born Again. It's had its ups and downs as a season. I've really enjoyed spending time back again with Matt Murdock and with Vincent Onofrio particularly.

[00:56:31] But there's moments in this episode of true fan service. And as a fan, I absolutely love that. True moments where I go, oh, this is the show I really wanted to see. Having Karen and Frank and Matt together in a room, the pitter-patter between each of them, having those conversations between them where you go, oh, this is the show that I really wanted as well. I've really enjoyed some of the new characters that are in here, but we didn't have enough time with them. In the show, they were trying to get a lot more achieved with only nine episodes, I suppose.

[00:57:00] So when you have these kind of callbacks with the characters that we know so well in the past, it really feels like the return of Daredevil Born Again. And it's setting up something really interesting for the next season. And I'm glad it's left it on this moment of Matt against the world, effectively. But he has his support system. He has got Karen there beside him. I think he even says to her, could you be my eyes, Karen, when they're going out to Red Hook? And Karen says, of course, always.

[00:57:27] So it is her aligning back up with Matt as well. There's also some great moments in this episode throughout the series. They've had the BB report to just do some establishing shots in New York. In this episode, we see the true scale of a New York set drama. They really show the city in ways that we haven't seen in the season so far. And it works so well in this finale.

[00:57:52] When they turn off the power and you see Manhattan lights going out and you see Jersey over on the side without the lights going out, it just shows you the true scale of the control that Fisk has over the city. I think that was really cool. But also the riots going on in the city, it really felt much bigger than people in rooms talking. It was great to see Jersey shores lit up. That's all you know, isn't it, John? No, we've stayed in Jersey. Hoboken. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

[00:58:19] That's the one that cost us $90 to get back from the Javits Center by taxi. Yes. Because it crossed boundary lines. Because it crossed the state line. So the taxi was ridiculous. Crazy. And we'd missed the last boat. Yes. Yes. The boat across the Hudson. But overall, absolutely love this. Really, really excited to see season two under these directors and this showrunner. It's going to be really interesting to see how they deliver the army versus Kingpin. That'd be very cool.

[00:58:48] Yeah, definitely. How about yourself, John? Do you defend the finale of Daredevil Born Again season one? Yeah, I really do. I'd give this four and a half crunchy Punisher handshakes out of five. Yeah, I really, really enjoyed this. I mean, this went dark. It went violent in terms of, you know, having the Punisher in there for sure. But even with the Kingpin and, yeah, Commissioner Gallo.

[00:59:15] I mean, that was a statement to be made by Wilson Fisk. And I love the fact that Karen kind of came in here. I like sort of the nod to sort of Foggy's case and the importance of Red Hook. You know, I really enjoyed the, you know, the surrounding characters around Wilson Fisk. You know, Book is as loyal. He's his loyal sidekick who will do all the dirty work.

[00:59:43] You've got Daniel, who is a converted member of the Wilson Fisk mayoral office. But I just love how Sheila has chosen a side that she probably isn't entirely comfortable with. And just the implications that had for Gallo, it was huge. I love the Matt Murdock and Punisher or Daredevil Punisher teaming up to protect themselves from the task force.

[01:00:12] Yeah, I just thought this was really, really good. And, I mean, it almost feels a bit Empire Strikes Back. You've got the Empire winning here in terms of Wilson Fisk and his cronies. Absolutely. And, you know, we're going to get Return of the Jedi for season two of Born Again. Yeah. So I'm really looking... Yeah, what they don't know is they've inspired Daredevil to be born again. They've inspired Rebellion or Resistance. Maybe it will be more of a musical.

[01:00:40] The Resistance lives on. Well, we've got Andor next week to talk to for the Rebellion. Jack Duquesne. Maybe. Maybe. Okay. So we're going to stay with Les Misraels. Yeah. Okay. Not like Andor. Both. We can have both. A musical Les Mis Andor. Excellent. Well, I'm absolutely delighted that you enjoyed this one, John. What was your score again? It's four and a half crunchy Punisher handshakes out of five. Excellent. That's a great score from you for the final episode of the season.

[01:01:10] I went back and had a look at your reviews for the Netflix show for the three seasons. Interesting. The first season, not bad, when you got to the final episode, that was a four out of five. There we go. Not bad. When it got to season two, though, that's where your problems with the finale seem to start. Your lowest score of the entire season was the final episode of season two. Didn't like that one at all. You gave it a three out of five. It's still a recommend.

[01:01:37] I think your actual rating was three terribly written Karen Page articles out of five. Season two, John. But for season three, yeah, your lowest score for season three was the final episode was three and a half. Chilled out Julie's out of five. Still a recommend. Chilled out Julie's, a reference for those of you that watched the episodes for season three. It's a reference to Poindexter's love interest who ended off being frozen in the third season.

[01:02:04] So just because I have to call out what the references were. But yeah, that's great. So the final episode of Daredevil Born Again getting a 4.5 out of five for you, John. It is. Brilliant. It got my heart racing. Fantastic. Certainly when Gallo's jaw was separated from the rest of his head. Oh, my goodness. I literally watched that scene and went, is there anything else they could actually show in this show? And then went, oh, sex. They haven't showed any sex.

[01:02:29] All they've done is destroy people, kill them, rip off heads, shot them to pieces. But nobody's really kissed on screen this whole season. There's been little pecs on cheeks, but that's about it. Isn't that mad? I can't believe you can show this much violence and you can't show any sex at all of these shows. How crazy. Very crazy. But I do think we need to celebrate that score. Yes. I think we need to have a little glass of champagne. Will we get that in Josie's? Probably not. Probably not. I think we should have some whiskey. Let's have a shot of whiskey. A shot of whiskey.

[01:03:00] It is fellow defenders, fellow quizzers. It is the final part of Josie's pub quiz for this first season of Daredevil Born Again. Episode nine. So we're on to question nine, which is, in what year was the charter established for Red Hook as a free port? Fantastic. The ninth question of nine. Oh, John, we have the first part of our goodies prize pack being brought over tomorrow.

[01:03:30] It's a Topps official Daredevil Born Again little poster, little card. Very good. Trading cards. So they're all sold out. They went on sale at the start of the year and they're all sold out. Collectibles. So we'll have that in our goody pack. And how do you get your hands in the goody pack? Send in the correct answers to all nine questions of Josie's pub quiz to us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. And we'll pick a winner on next week's wrap up podcast. Yes.

[01:03:57] All the questions from all the previous episodes are on the website at tvpodcastindustries.com. So you can check them out there. If you don't have them written down or in draft form for the answer email. Yep. Just pop over. There's a little button that says pub quizzes. You'll see it up there. But John, do you want to give that question one more time? The final question. Sure. In what year was the charter established for Red Hook as a free port? Fantastic. That's it. It certainly is. Cheers.

[01:04:27] And down the hatch. Bottoms up. Chin chin. And very best of luck to all of our fellow quizzers. Indeed. Indeed. Let us get on to our feedback for this final episode of Daredevil. We have email feedback from Coffee and Vodka who says, Greetings fellow born again defenders. It took the new guys to bring meaning to the title and did they ever. As you deal with the problem of a severely injured hero, you discount the injury.

[01:04:56] Which was just fine by me. From Matt's first utterance of Karen to Heather to his final speech, which was a battle cry of hope to a beleaguered city and nation. This was a killer episode. Frank and Daredevil's dialogue, the return of Karen, the vilification of Heather, the bloody visceral action, effects, sound and cinematography making up an episode as good as, if not better, than much of the Netflix days.

[01:05:25] A perfect capper to three very rewatchable entries and a reliable sign of a fantastic season to come. Like the commissioner, I'm still picking my jaw from the floor. Very good. Excellent stuff, Coffee and Vodka, with your dark sense of humour. I do declare that I do like it. Coffee and Vodka gives it five madriples on the Hudson.

[01:05:54] Disharmed captors have 45 Josies out of five. Peace and take care, Coffee and Vodka. Well done, Coffee and Vodka. Very good. Fantastic. I'm going to be giggling now for a long time. I like it. I like your call out of Madripoor on the Hudson as well. So the Freeport has returned. Fantastic. And Coffee and Vodka, I do want to say thanks as well for sending the feedback for Daredevil Board again into our feedback at DefendersTVPodcast.com email address as well.

[01:06:24] It was nice to get some emails in there because we don't normally get them in for our Marvel shows, but we've had that available for 10 years as well, since when we started our Marvel podcasts. That's quite cool. Thanks so much, Coffee and Vodka. Yeah, thanks, Coffee and Vodka. Next up, we've got an email in from Meryl Smith who says, Welcome, fellow Defenders. We've made it to the finale. I'm just going to start up with the minor nitpick up top. We've seen Matt fight other enemies in the room while de-lethalizing the killer in the room.

[01:06:50] The Daredevil Season 3 finale comes to mind when he's fighting other people and Leifert Fisk, but at the same time keeping Bull Poindexter from killing other people until he leaves that room and Poindexter takes those people out. I'm just saying that they could have tightened things up in that fight scene in the apartment and moved a couple of things around and things would have come together better. But overall, still a good fight scene. Now onto the good stuff. So Matt finally has Frank over to his place and his apartment is blown up. Well, this will never happen again and Matt's not getting his deposit back.

[01:07:17] I love that my prediction about Frank and Karen came true. Once again, the show has me wondering whether Karen will get with Frank or Matt, which is not the most important part of the episode. But come on, even this show is prodding at it. Now, if only we can get Elektra back in play, we'll be off to the races. All the pieces on the board are now in place. Fisk and Vanessa are as united as ever. True evil couple goals. I was surprised to see Frank in Fisk's sex dungeon, which I initially called it as a bit, but it's actually an accurate description of it.

[01:07:45] Frank is the last person that Fisk should keep alive, but he'll come to regret it. Book's days are numbered. Now that Karen's back, will history repeat itself? Love that opening scene between Dex and Vanessa. You really see how capable she is and how far she's come from when she initially started in the original series. Looking forward to next season. Four punishments via Punisher and Daredevil Skydives out of five for me. Excellent stuff, Meryl. I'm really glad you enjoyed this episode. Yeah, absolutely.

[01:08:15] Who is Karen going to get with? I mean, I did like that bit where they're talking about the heart, you know, Karen's going, that's so unfair that you can do that. You know, it was probably just adrenaline. And Matt repeats that when she asks about, well, what was my heart when I, you know, when I saw you? Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, it was very cute. And I liked how it played out like that.

[01:08:43] But maybe coffee will come to spoil that heart fluttering moment. I think I would probably have the coffee. Well, you know, they do say coffee does make your heart run faster. It certainly does. Maybe Frank was just on his coffee. No, no, no. Frank definitely has a little bit of a thing for Karen Bush, given everything that's been going on in his life, given the pain he's gone through with losing his family and losing his wife. I think the whole unrequited love is there really, isn't it?

[01:09:12] I don't think he'd ever take up a relationship with anybody else. Yeah, definitely. So the ways really is clear for Karen and Matt. Yeah. Especially with Heather working for Fisk and not believing anything that Matt's saying. Exactly. That vilification of Heather is kind of interesting. And like you say, I mean, it is a good point about that de-lethalizing of someone in the room that Daredevil has done in the past. I guess maybe, yeah, it could have been done here.

[01:09:40] Maybe like just given he was injured. I think it's the arm. And I think it's also you have him up against a villain like Bullseye and you go, how can Daredevil keep control of that? You have him side by side with the anti-hero that is the Punisher. If you have Daredevil de-lethalizing the Punisher in a scene where he's supposed to be pretty lethal, it probably would go against what they're trying to establish for the Punisher as well, I suppose. So you go, well, he wasn't at his best. He had an injured arm.

[01:10:10] He was only able to use one arm and therefore didn't use the other arm to stop Frank from doing all his murdering, his murderization. Absolutely. Good stuff. Thanks, Meryl. Absolutely. Thanks, Meryl. Thanks so much for your feedback all throughout the season. Yeah, definitely. Over on Facebook, feedback came in rapidly. Ben Rush says, well, that was insane. Bring on season two. Jack Milburn said, do you think we should have maybe had some of the Defenders cameo at the end rather than just the police?

[01:10:40] Interesting point there, Jack. That could have been kind of interesting, but maybe that will be for a season two thing. Yeah, I think it's just a line that Matt's saying, you know, we need an army. So that's how you can set up him going out and talking to the rest of the Defenders. I just don't think they would have had the contracts in place to bring in Luke Cage and Jessica Jones and Iron Fist. I don't think they would have had the contracts in place to do that. So they're basically saying, watch this space.

[01:11:10] Let's see who Daredevil can bring in. And, you know, he may even get Spider-Man into his little army of Defenders next season. Yeah, possibly. Maybe Doctor Strange, he's just down the road. He's going to be pretty affected by this new mayor. Yeah, there's tons in there. Finally on Facebook, Ashley Hamilton says, that's how you do a season finale. I need to watch that again because it was positively unhinged in all the best ways.

[01:11:36] Yes, just like Commissioner Gallo's jaw, unhinged. But thank you so much, Ashley, Jack and Ben for your comments. Really good to get those thoughts through. Absolutely. As we said, we are recording a little bit earlier this week than we normally do. A happy Easter to everybody who celebrates that. But we will be recording our finale and wrap-up episode next week. So get any other thoughts that you have to us by emailing us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com

[01:12:06] or popping over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries. We want to hear your thoughts on this season, what your thoughts about maybe next season is going to be. I want to hear all those as well. So send them in to us before next week and we'll talk about them on next week's podcast. Absolutely. And get your answers in for Josie's bar quiz as well so we can read out the winner for the goodies. Exactly.

[01:12:31] It's also, fellow defenders, we have just kicked off our return to the world of The Last of Us. We are fun guys indeed for season two. Oh, the mushroom jerks are back. I know. We are so excited to be back in the world of Joel and Ellie. Yes, we are. So if you're a fan of The Last of Us season one and raring to go for season two,

[01:12:55] please join us on TV Podcast Industries for that coverage as well. Absolutely. New episodes of The Last of Us come out every Sunday night or Monday morning if you're in Europe and we podcast about that every week as well. So really excited to have you join us for that one. Thank you so much for joining us for Daredevil Born Again season one. We hope to see you around the way for all of our Marvel shows and Marvel movies coming up. We've got Thunderbolts coming up in May.

[01:13:22] We've got Fantastic Four coming up later in the year and loads and loads of other stuff coming up. So stay subscribed. Yeah, really looking forward to all the new stuff coming out. So it's been great that you've joined us for this season of Daredevil Born Again. Absolutely. Thanks so much for joining us. Talk to you again next time. Until next time, fellow defenders. Keep watching, keep listening, and of course, keep defending. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.