Daredevil Born Again 206 Review

[00:00:00] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're talking about Daredevil Born Again Season 2 Episode 6 Requiem. I can't let you do it Karen. I'm with you! You keep choosing the wrong people! This thing over the people who love you! What? How can you say that? Because it's true. Because you let them live and people die. Karen.

[00:00:34] Let me carry this. Back fellow Defenders to this episode of the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries.

[00:01:02] We're here talking about Daredevil Born Again Season 2 Episode 6 Requiem. I am one of your hosts, John. I am your other whiskey-swilling host, Derek. A little bit of Requiem choral, I think, to accompany Vanessa's old funeral. Well, very good, very good. John used to sing with the Halle Choir when you were younger, didn't you? I did. So did you ever sing Requiem?

[00:01:30] I did many Requiems, yes. There's quite a few Requiems. There are quite a few. It's not just one tune. Certainly Verdi's Requiem would be one that I have tickled my tonsils with. Is that really sad when you're in the boys' choir? No. It seems unusual. No. Well, you see... We'll leave it. We'll leave it, John. Yes, we'll leave it. No, I was an adult when I was in the Halle. That's true. But I was also a choir boy. I was neither of those things.

[00:02:01] But we are back with the sixth episode Requiem, an episode lots of people have been waiting for. And lots and lots of stuff happened here. Not just the arrival, or let's say this very, very spoiled arrival of Jessica Jones. I think the night before this episode aired, there was a video that Marvel released of Jessica walking towards the camera. And every line she said in this episode played over the top of it about three hours before the episode was released. Like, what are you doing? I know. I know. I don't know. They just like to spoil these things.

[00:02:30] I've read that marketing team and Born Again. Well, it's... Yeah, absolutely. But, I mean, it was completely jam-packed here. Really... I loved this episode. And for more than just the arrival of Jessica Jones, I think it was really, really good. Very strong. Lovely, intense. Lovely and sort of consequential, I think, for this episode. Yeah.

[00:02:56] So, I can't wait to get into our spoiler-filled discussion of Requiem. Before we do, though, fellow defenders, remember, if you want to head on over to our website, you are free to go to tvpodcastindustries.com. Yes, it is free, yes. It certainly is free. And, of course, you can subscribe over there on any good or evil podcast player of your choice.

[00:03:19] We, of course, love to get your thoughts, theories, observations, comments, feedback, you name it, on all things to do with Daredevil Born Again. So, please send them in by email to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. Or you can head on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com. Groups forward slash tvpodcastindustries.

[00:03:43] And you will also be able to join our Discord in the episode notes on the website as well. So, please sign in, sign up and subscribe. There you go. Absolutely. Join us over there. It's been great fun getting all the feedback in as this season went on. And as all the other shows that we're covering as well, like Invincible and The Boys, which you'll get on our main feed on TV podcast industries.

[00:04:07] I was thinking back, John, because we have Jessica Jones in this episode and we used to have a little nod on the subscribe to the podcast and any good or evil podcast catcher. For Jessica Jones, it used to be on any flying or jumping podcast catcher because of the argument with Chris and I about whether she flew or jumped. Yes, I was agnostic on that. Yes, you knew she jumped. I didn't care. You knew she jumped, yes. No, I didn't care. But let us get in to some of the episode details.

[00:04:36] Derek, who gave us what, where, when and how and why? Well, the episode was directed by Angela Barnes, who directed episode five, the last week's episode, an excellent episode. And the episode was written by Devin Cliger and Jesse Wiggetu. Jesse Wiggetu wrote episode five. And this is Devin Cliger's first episode of the season. He is a staff writer and has been a staff writer on all episodes of season one and season two of Daredevil Born Again. Great stuff. Yeah, really good. John, do you want to tell us what they gave us? With the synopsis for Daredevil Born Again, season two, episode six, Requiem.

[00:05:05] Sure. Wilson Fisk mourns the loss of his beloved wife, Vanessa. When her surgeon tries to empathise and comfort the mayor, he uses his immense strength to kill the man who didn't save her. Furious that the vigilantes are still on the loose, Fisk lets his anti-vigilante task force move Mr. Charles' weapons to their own warehouse for their use on the streets of New York. An angry Mr. Charles offers his services to Governor McCaffrey to help Mayor Fisk from office.

[00:05:34] Miss Charles also sends men to attack Jessica Jones, a super-powered investigator who turned down an offer to work for him. Jessica easily overpowers them, protecting her daughter, Danielle, and goes to the AVTF warehouse with Daredevil to destroy their stolen weapons.

[00:05:51] At the funeral for Vanessa, Buck Cashman tells Daniel Blake to feed B.B. Urick false information to test her loyalty, and encourages Heather Glenn to imitate Muse's actions to free herself from the trauma his attack has had on her. Meanwhile, back at their hideout, Karen Page nearly murders Bullseye, but is stopped by Matt Murdock.

[00:06:22] B.B. decides not to leak the information, and almost kisses Daniel, but he confronts her about the previous leaks, and reveals that he knows she's connected to the city without fear broadcasts. Back in New York, Karen Page joins a protest outside City Hall, and shares the testimonies from the Red Hook prisoners onto the building, urging them to resist and revolt. Matt Murdock visits Wilson Fisk at his own hideout, and suggests they both leave New York to have peace.

[00:06:50] But Fisk refuses, and they fight. Murdock wins, but a broken Fisk asks, what will he do? He can't arrest him, and he will not kill him. During the protest, lead officer Powell kills young AVTF agent Saunders, who he had suspected of feeding information to Daredevil, and blames vigilantes. As gunfire arises, causing chaos around City Hall, Karen Page loses her wig, and is caught by the trigger-happy officer Powell.

[00:07:20] Oh my god, it's her! That's it. I must say, this was very funny. If you're gonna have a wig malfunction, don't have it in the place where you're supposed to not have it. Right in front of City Hall, during a protest, with all the armed AVTF there. It was the worst wig malfunction ever. It was pretty awful, wasn't it? Yeah, she should have been wearing a hat as well, or maybe stapled it to her head.

[00:07:47] Or maybe just dyed her hair, instead of wearing a wig. How about that? Yeah, absolutely. Because she has had the same hairstyle since Daredevil Season 1, so maybe she could have just gone into real hiding and dyed her hair. Oh, definitely. But, massive tension moment, so we can't forget about that. We needed the tension out of that. Will we get into our case notes, John, for this episode? Absolutely. As we discuss all the major moments of the episode. Let us get into case note number one. Order! Order!

[00:08:17] Time for the defence to present their evidence. Yes, hug it out. I think this is really hilarious.

[00:08:27] But yes, the fact that the surgeon who failed in Fisk's eyes to rescue and recover his beloved Vanessa from the attack by Bullseye is given a really, really good bear hug. So much so that his eyes sort of bleed out.

[00:08:54] And I do think, yes, this is the case of, is it the customer's always right? I'm going to complain by giving you a hug. So any doctors out there or surgeons, you better beware, Dr. Bob, that you don't do anything to, that you're not caught in an evil group hug by a deranged, large cartel boss or kingpin. Yes, yes, avoid the closeness.

[00:09:24] Definitely avoid what this surgeon says to Fisk. Wow! When he's like, it was my pleasure to deal with your wife. She's such a, she, even in her final moments, she brought down the beauties of heaven. It's like, what are you talking about? You were the surgeon that worked on her. I literally thought that this was a dream sequence because of how the surgeon spoke. Yeah. I was like, if anyone said that to me in this moment, I probably would have punched them

[00:09:53] or at least shouted at them and cried or whatever. Rather than, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily have resorted to a murderous burr hug. Probably not. But, yeah, I just thought it was a dream sequence. And I thought something really awful was going to happen, but I thought he was then going to kind of come around and still be holding Vanessa's hand, which they'd focused on. Yeah. And the fact that it was real, I was like, oh, he did say that. He actually did say that. He actually did say that.

[00:10:23] I kind of feel less bad now. But New York has lost one of its top surgeons now because this guy was just playing it so overly familiar with the mayor of New York, you know, as if they were in this together, you know? Yeah. He just knew. I actually thought he was just going to come in and say to Wilson, look, you know, it's been four days. Vanessa's dead in the bed. We need to like remove her. I thought it was just going to be something like that. Say it sensitively. Not like I said it, but say it sensitively to him.

[00:10:52] But I thought it was just kind of a way of saying Wilson Fisk has been here for a long time beside his dead wife's body. We need to prepare her for the funeral kind of thing. You want someone with, you know, in inverted commas, bedside manner. It's not something that's too curt and surgical and objective, but also not too, are they related? Like, I mean, or is he his vicar? Exactly, yeah. It just seems. Or priest. Or priest.

[00:11:18] It's just, you know, it just felt, ooh, spot watch tradition I grew up in. But, you know, it's, yeah, it was just overly familiar to the point where I was like, I feel like this is a dream sequence. Nonetheless, I thought it was hilarious in the end what happened because it wasn't, it was actually real. And you get a book coming in to sort of deal with it. And I'm like, well, there's plenty of trolleys that you can, and you can wheel a dead person

[00:11:47] out of a hospital probably quite easily. I feel like if there's one place that you could kill someone and get away with it, it'd probably be in a hospital. But not that I've thought about that in the past, of course. But no, it was just the crunching of his bones as he's still politely going, Mr. Fizz, maybe you haven't noticed you're killing me. Yeah. Oh, dear. Poor surgeon. Ah, dear. That was, I must say, unintentionally funny and over familiar from the surgeon. Yes.

[00:12:16] It probably meant, well, you know, you kind of deserve that. Right. To some extent. Yes. No surgeons be overly familiar with John. Good stuff. That's our first case note. Yes. Let's move on to her second. We just have to give her our own point, John. Jessica Jones with Danielle Jones. I know. Yeah, that was great. I love the fact that with all the chaos going on in that opening scene with the guys, the

[00:12:45] military guys kind of coming in, Jessica dealing with them outside, but a rogue sort of grenade came through the window and she's like playing with it like a toy and it's just the beeps getting beep. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. I thought she was going to throw it out and it was going to explode. I thought it was going to be that kind of moment here. But no, I do like the fact that Jessica takes it off and actually just turns it off. She does. Yeah.

[00:13:15] So, yeah, that was a great moment. It was a good introduction. And just says to Danielle, you know, not a toy, but she's using it like a wand as she's dancing. Yeah, exactly. That was really good. It was a really great touch. Now, will we talk a little bit about Danielle for people that don't read comic books, John? Yes, let's. Yeah. Now, you've probably guessed it, but Jessica Jones and Luke Cage are married in the comic books and their daughter is Danielle. So I actually thought watching the scene where she had the bomb, I thought we might be introduced

[00:13:44] and that she was bomb proof effectively instead of bulletproof like Luke Cage was. So I thought they might have a little joke on that, but they didn't. They resisted that. But I did think it was quite interesting that now after what's it, eight, nine years since Jessica Jones finished. So it's quite cool that we have Danielle, who's about five years old. So in between the final season of Jessica Jones and now she's had her baby. Absolutely. You know, really good.

[00:14:09] I was really pleased to kind of see this little domestic setting for Jessica Jones. Even seeing Jessica Jones in pink is quite a surprise. And a kid. I mean, I'm not sure they needed to hide her, who it was for that long until she takes the grenade off Danielle. Because it's kind of like, as soon as we were there, I was like, oh, it's Jessica Jones. I know why they did it. I understand that. I don't have a problem with it.

[00:14:39] But I was like, well, just show her. I know, but I think the showrunners probably thought that the stupid marketing team wouldn't have put out this much pressure on the team. That's true. Saying like, they even changed the image on the screen on Disney Plus to be Jessica Jones when this episode was released. No, and I think you're right there that this kind of how, if we didn't know anything about Jessica Jones returning, this absolutely makes sense to introduce her like this.

[00:15:06] But the fact that at this stage, marketing had got on all over it. You're just like, face plans. It's like, oh, this must be the Jessica Jones scene. But again, imagine if we didn't know what was happening and you see a woman with a baby in her house, walking around the house in fluffy pink slippers. You're never going to guess that that was Jessica Jones. Exactly. That's true. Yeah. And I mean, like they really need to speak to Christopher Nolan, I think. Well, absolutely. How to keep things under wraps. Yeah. And I know we have a few comments about that in the feedback as well.

[00:15:35] And, you know, it is a real frustration when they do this kind of stuff. But just to say, as I mentioned a couple of episodes ago, the showrunner is really concerned that we're not going to get any more seasons of Daredevil. So the marketing team are allowed to run riot and spoil all this stuff. So people watch the show. If you've noticed on Disney Plus, this show is an excellent show. It's one of our favorite shows to watch every week. But it's about like sixth on the top ten, even the day of release. It's found its audience, but it's not a massive audience. It's not up there with like scrubs or with their bigger shows on there.

[00:16:05] Even Mall Shadowlord is doing significantly more numbers than Daredevil at the moment, unfortunately. So if they feel that they need to spoil everything in marketing to get people to watch it and people do watch it, well, hopefully that means we get a season four and then we can get loads more Jessica Jones and we get a Jessica Jones series again, you know? Yeah, no, absolutely. So I'll let them away with it if people watch the show. Yeah.

[00:16:26] But yeah, it was great introduction to have Jessica back in the world of Daredevil and New York. It was really good to see that. I like the fact as well, like the fight as well. Really good fight. It was interesting at one stage as well where it's Powell and she hits him and he doesn't fly back. He doesn't.

[00:16:51] And I was there going, is that something to do with her powers or is that something to do with something horrendous that Powell has had done to him or something? I actually thought it was Powell. I thought Powell had been super. But actually when watching it back again, I hate saying that things are being taken from other shows that we're watching at the moment, but it's exactly what's happening over Invincible. Jessica actually has a line when she's speaking to Matt that says ever since she had Danielle,

[00:17:21] her powers sometimes turn off. They sometimes don't appear there. So in that fight when she punches Powell and her powers are gone, they come back quite soon afterwards. But that's been happening to her quite regularly over the course of the five, six years since she had Danielle. So quite similarly to what happened to another character in Invincible who lost their powers because they got pregnant. Yes. But I mean, it's yeah, it's the same. I was I was the same as you. I just thought, oh, OK, is that Powell? And then it's like, yeah.

[00:17:50] So it was an interesting moment, certainly on the first watch seeing that. But I mean, this was a really like neat little warehouse fight. It really was. And I loved how she uses the fridge. I like how Matt comes in with his billy clubs. It was all just really nicely choreographed. So cool. I even like just that you mentioned the Powell scene a little bit, but I liked the Powell turned on her immediately when her punch didn't work on him. She fell over to the floor. He kicked her to the floor.

[00:18:20] And then while he's trying to make one of those evil villain kind of statements, I've got you in my sights now. He just gets smacked in the face by Matt. It's great. Because if there's one character that needs to die this season, it has to be Powell. I'm so sick of him. All right, Karen. Well, we've definitely been talking about that. Absolutely. Yeah. But this is this is all to do with Jessica teaming back up with Matt, getting a bit more information to Matt quite specifically about Mr. Charles. The attack that happens on her house is because Mr.

[00:18:50] Charles has sent his men down there to take out Jessica. She believes because she turned him down for when he tried to recruit her for some kind of super team. Interestingly, she says somebody else that they know accepted Mr. Charles's offer. Oh, interesting. I'm wondering who that would be like Luke Cage. I think quite unlikely to be someone that would join up a government agency. Oh, absolutely. You know that that wouldn't feel right.

[00:19:19] It's just because of the Harlem roots and certainly at least coming from the Marvel Netflix shows, just how that played out. You wouldn't expect that. But it could be Daniel Rand with Rand Corporation. Could be Danny Rand. Could be like, oh, well, from a corporate point of view, I'll do it. Yeah, could be that. I heard a great theory that it could also be Trish Walker. John, do you remember Trish Walker? Certainly you do.

[00:19:49] Cray cray. Yeah. I want you cray cray. Yeah. Because if you remember back in season three of Jessica Jones, she was in the raft, which is where the president of America is currently residing. But a great theory that it could be her that she signed up to join the forces of Mr. Charles. Because again, Mr. Charles connected to Val. Val's just set up the Thunderbolts or the New Avengers. So maybe they've tapped on some of the people they haven't bridged. Yeah, that's quite a good idea.

[00:20:19] I like that. I like that. Yeah. Good stuff. Shall we move on to our case note number three? Absolutely. Yes. Order in the court. So case note number three. Happy birthday, Daniel. Absolutely. Happy birthday to you. Absolutely. This was superb. I love the whole tension here.

[00:20:42] And it almost between Daniel and Bibi Oric, but it almost carried through from last week's episode between Daniel and Buck Cashman as well, because you have Buck Cashman essentially saying, look, I know who's leaking this or it's a high probability that it is Bibi Oric. So you need to do something about this.

[00:21:07] You need to draw her out, do that switcheroo in order to drop her information that she will release and expose herself. Yeah. And, you know, again, this is you can see Daniel fighting with these torn loyalties ultimately. But equally, I like the fact that it's playing out with, to some degree, a little bit, I

[00:21:33] would suspect, some kind of shock, PTSD of what he had been asked to do by Buck Cashman from the last episode. Because he does. He says, do you know what I've done? Yeah. Like, and you can see he is visibly shook from, still, from having to sort of dig the grave and bury someone who had been murdered. Yeah. Or cut up the body as well. And cut up the body. Yeah. So, like. You're talking about what we learned about Buck Cashman a couple of weeks ago was that

[00:22:02] he's been doing this since all the way back at the start of the Daredevil season. So he's been doing this for years. He loves it. Well, yeah. He's willing to do it at any, at the drop of a hat, basically. And he's just dragged Daniel along with him to do this. And then when Daniel kind of says, you know, what we did last night was messed up. He's just told to get over it. It's behind you now. You need to take care of the system and the system will take care of you. And that was what you had to do to take care of the system. I do think that BB's days are numbered again.

[00:22:29] She's back on the top of the list for me as someone that may be dead by the end of the season. Yeah, I think so. And because the information he tries to plant with her is that Wilson Fisk will only run one term, that he's going to leave. He just wants to do a one and done term. And if that makes it to the public realm, then BB will definitely be the one whose head's on a chopping block. It was interesting that he chose that as his lie, that Wilson Fisk will only be there for

[00:22:57] one term, given the conversations that are going on in the room. We hear the governor talking to Sheila saying that she will support her bid for the office of mayor and she won't have to deal with the whole situation of running for mayoral election because Sheila doesn't want to be in that position, having to sell herself to the public. And the governor's kind of going, well, we can work it out that Wilson has pushed aside and you're in his place as soon as possible, basically. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:23:22] And you even see as well, Mr. Charles coming in to assist the governor, McCaffrey, as well. Yeah. Because all his guns have effectively been taken and moved to Fisk's warehouse where we see the fight between Jessica and Powell and Daredevil and the AVTF. So yeah, it's really kind of interesting how this plays out. But something does stop her. And I was like going, oh, that's fantastic. Great.

[00:23:52] She's not going to get caught. But she's caught because Daniel did see the little SD card being passed between Javi and her at the fight. So I think that was so she's almost gets away with it. But it's just Javi was just too obvious in passing it into pocket.

[00:24:17] So he is able to go back in and pick it out of her pocket as he collects a coat. I do think would it still be in her pocket? Yeah. I just don't know. I know. Because so I think that's a little bit strange. That to me just didn't make an awful lot of sense. I think because the show is episodic and we're kind of getting the splits by week. What you what we probably don't realize is how short a time it's been since the fight. You know, the fight happened.

[00:24:47] And Vanessa was in hospital. Then Vanessa dies. And then the funeral. So these things are happening really quickly. Yeah. But it's still a day to me. It's probably a day and a half. A good day has passed, if not two. Yeah. And I think she would be looking to, you know, she would have taken that out when she got back from the fight. I agree. Yeah. You know, you have that first night where she's in hospital, Vanessa, the next day. And it's the next night where she has that whole.

[00:25:16] Where she's speaking to Fisk. And even that then, again, it might be longer because she's had surgery. And it depends how long she's out for in order to help her recover. So it's at least two days here. And I just don't think she would have still had that in there. I think she would have looked to have gotten the information off and secured as quick as possible and then ultimately destroy it. Or at the very least not be carrying it over to Daniel's house. Yes, exactly.

[00:25:47] Like maybe change your coach. Yeah. But look, the tension was what was being done here. The tension was excellent. It was so tense. It was the fact that when she goes upstairs to do the text message that Daniel's pretty guaranteed she's going to do. He looks at her coach and he's convinced. You know, he doesn't really need to do this test on her because he already knows that she's the one that's been passing the information. You know, we talked about this a couple of episodes ago. Does Daniel know? Yes, he does. But he's been trying to protect Bebe. He's been trying not to believe the worst of her.

[00:26:16] He's been trying to allow her to just leak little things because it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. But now Buck Cashman has got her in his sights and Daniel can no longer protect her. No matter what Bebe does, no matter how she plays the game, when she's trying to sidle up to Daniel, he's like, just stop. You played the game. You've lost. And I don't know how to protect you from Buck and Buck's calling to find out what's happening. And that's kind of where we leave them. Leave them there. It was quite interesting when she was writing the text message.

[00:26:45] She walked into Daniel's room and looked around the room and she sees the photograph of Daniel with his dad when he was a kid. And that's what makes her delete the message and not send it out. And we hear the conversation from his mom saying how proud his father would have been. And I was convinced we should know who his father is. Yeah, I know. I just cannot see the picture. I was wondering what triggered it. And I think it was just ultimately her loyalty to Daniel. Yes. But I thought it was something in the room just because of the way it was being filmed. Yeah.

[00:27:15] So, but yeah, I mean, I think just the tension of it was superb. And I think, yeah, it puts BB in real danger here. And that, you know, it's, I'm really excited to see how this plays out because I'm hoping that she still is able to survive this. Yeah.

[00:27:37] And I suspect Karen might have a part to play in it just because she does have an interesting conversation with Daredevil that, quite frankly, relates to old Wesley from last week. Which was just great. Mm-hmm. So, I think this could be Karen, you know, not on my watch kind of thing again. Well, I hope so, yeah. So, there could be something playing out there, I think. Absolutely, absolutely.

[00:28:07] Can I give you one quick Easter egg that you might not have noticed in the episode? Did you know who BB was texting the message to, John? Karen. No, she wasn't. That's what I thought. I couldn't make it out, to be honest. Do you know who it was, though? Because you see it on the phone. No, you see it on the phone. Luke Cage. It's a genuine Easter egg. She's texting it to a person called Ellison. Ellison was Mitchell Ellison, who was the head of the New York Bulletin, where Karen used to work back in the Daredevil days.

[00:28:33] So, Mitchell Ellison is still out there as head of the Bulletin. That's great. Yeah, so effectively, BB's texting going, this is way too true and way too serious for me to put out there on my little channel on TikTok or whatever it is. You need to get that out in real newspaper form out in the New York Bulletin. Yeah. So, that's quite cool. Yeah, that's really cool. It'll be great to see Ellison back in live action after his appearances on Daredevil and Punisher back in the day, wouldn't it? Yeah, absolutely. See, another character coming back. Fab. All we need is Turk. We do. All we need is Turk.

[00:29:05] Good stuff. Shall we move on to our case note number four? Absolutely. Karen, the killer. Again. She's getting the taste for it, I think. She certainly is. No, she is on the rampage here. Like, within a confined space and with limited rampaging. Yes. I think she's being driven up the wall by this argument. Yes. Absolutely love this.

[00:29:33] I think the scene between Debra Ann Wall and Charlie Cox is so strong. It's such a big scene. It's a really big scene. Yeah. Just because everything was going so well between them. Yeah. And this has become the wedge point for them. The fact that Daredevil brought Bullseye back into their hideout. You know, that side eye at the end of the last episode had meaning. So, you know, she's really, really good here.

[00:30:02] And I like the fact that, as well, she comes back to her murder of Wesley. Boo. Because, you know, like, no, but I just think it's a really nice way of putting it. She says, has this tortured me? Me killing him? Me killing him? Yes. Did it need to happen? And do I regret it? No. Exactly. Because otherwise he would have been after them incessantly. Yeah.

[00:30:27] And, you know, she extrapolates this to the fact that he's saving all the people that will kill them. Oh. Wilson Fisk, Bullseye, Doctor Doom, you name it. Rhino, all the other suits. I thought you were going to say Rhino. You know, all the...

[00:30:47] And she's got ultimately a problem with that now that she's been stuck between the four walls looking at Poindexter being given treatment in order to try and give him the best chance of survival, even though he's not able to go to hospital. So, like... But I love that even that, you know, that's the first bone of contention. She's told... She goes, why can't we just take him to hospital? Well, he'll be arrested. Good.

[00:31:15] You know, it's an instant reaction from her. She doesn't want him there at all. She says he deserves to be either dead or in one of Fisk's dungeons, but definitely not in our high days. Yes. And then Matt leaves her there alone with Dex. And she has the conversation with him, the one that Matt had last week when he was taking him through the tunnels, whereas Matt chose to keep him alive regardless of what Dex said. Yeah. Dex is saying to her, I've accomplished my goal and I deserve to die. You're absolutely right, Karen. Pull the trigger.

[00:31:43] You know, the one thing that somebody who's going to pull the trigger on you doesn't need is for you to say, pull the trigger. Yeah, absolutely. Which is what happened. But I was very surprised to hear the bounce of that Billy Thub off her head as Matt arrives. Of time. Very, very lucky. But Billy Thub to the head, though. I thought it was to the gun. Oh, maybe it was to the gun. Sorry. It was just the fact that it failed. I think because it rips it out of her hands and her fingers on the trigger. Yeah. You know, so.

[00:32:12] I didn't want to give her brain damage, so I'm glad he went for the gun, Grant. But the fact that she says, you know, you keep saving the people that end up killing people that you love and you don't stick up for the ones that you love. It's such a big argument. I'm so glad the feedback that we've been getting since the beginning of the series has been leading to this. This is exactly what the show wants us to be discussing. They want us to be discussing why is Matt keeping people alive when he could just kill them and then everybody is okay. Well, you know, there is.

[00:32:39] And keeping alive people specifically that are trying to kill him and his loved ones. Whether it is Karen, whether it's Josie, whether it's Cherry, you know, all these people. And all of the group now, the whole resistance movement, which is now following Daredevil. We can see them all dressing up as Daredevil now. He's their figurehead now. And they're all being taken out and killed off. But it's such an interesting argument because the argument tends to be why aren't you killing Bullseye?

[00:33:07] And Bullseye is saying my killing is done, basically. He's turned a corner now and saying I've done what I need to accomplish. Kill me. And so there's no point in killing him. You might as well put him back in prison. Yeah. You know, he's not worthy of death. But Karen still wants to go for the retaliation. She still wants to go for the revenge of killing the person that killed Foggy. She wants him dead. Absolutely, yeah. They want to kill Kingpin, but he's inspired so many brutal people in the city like Powell and Buck Cashman that even if Kingpin's dead,

[00:33:37] there's still other people out there who are out hurting people and following his cult, effectively. Well, and that's the other side of it. For Matt, you know, okay, you knock down a domino. Yeah. You knock down another one. You can knock down as many others that causes the chain reaction. There's always a domino in front. So it just becomes this never-ending sort of domino cascade. Exactly.

[00:33:59] You know, and I think there's all-and then whilst people are starting to stand them up behind you, like there's the new ones coming through all the time. So it's just, you know, it's a really great argument between the two. It is. And interestingly, as the argument goes on, we actually hear the real cause behind it. It's not just, okay, she's frustrated. I get that. And she's left alone in this room with the person who murdered her best friend. I get that. There's a frustration there.

[00:34:26] But also she feels that everything that's happened with the resistance movement isn't going well anymore. They thought they'd found the key in finding Christoffie, the co-pilot of the ship. Second mate. Second mate of the ship from the first episode. But he's dead. She knows he didn't make it to their handlers. And she learned that while Matt was out. She also knows the data that was passed on to BB to be broadcast, which was all of the testimonials of the resistance members who they saved. That hasn't made it out into the public.

[00:34:56] So she's concerned that all of the ways they have of taking down Fisk the way that Matt wants it to happen are all failing at the moment. All of that information is not getting out to the public. So Karen decides to take it into her own hands and head off to the City Hall rally. Yeah. And project this. I think in the UK, there's a group called Led by Donkeys that kind of project it onto these kind of things onto Parliament.

[00:35:22] Generally about politicians being stupid, racist, misogynist, corrupt, and so on. But they did the Andrew McBatton Fisk Files photos as well, didn't they? Yeah. On one of the castles as well. Yes, exactly.

[00:35:35] And so it's Allah led by donkeys for me, where they project the testimonials onto the City Hall and have this whole, you know, rebel, revolt sort of tagline for it all as well. Yeah. I like how they do that because that's used a lot all the time.

[00:35:56] And the problem is, is that the whole thing becomes more and more agitated and then gets agitated by Powell who, you know, I mean, it's completely foreshadowed the whole of this. Powell knows that the AVTF agent Saunders, who had been taken by Karen, that he has been feeding information to the resistance. Yeah.

[00:36:23] And so he is shot, he's dispatched very quickly. And that ring out of the gunfire is the pretext, the false pretext to go after the vigilantes who Powell says has just shot Saunders. Yeah. It was interesting that he got a phone call from Buck beforehand. You hear him thanking Buck and then saying weapons free and then he takes out Saunders.

[00:36:47] So Buck Cashman gave him the go ahead to start this riot, to start this massive fight between everybody. And just in case anybody doesn't know, it's a very old movie now, but everybody's seen it. I'm sure what Powell calls Saunders is a Fredo. Fredo was the person that betrayed the Godfather in the Godfather movies, kicking off the killing of everybody that betrayed the Godfather, basically.

[00:37:10] So effectively, I love this kind of admission from Powell that he knows that he's part of an organized crime unit that just happened to be working for the mayor of New York, who is the kingpin. So he's referencing the greatest movie about kingpins that's ever been made when he calls Saunders Fredo. Yeah. Fredo, yeah. So there you go. I like that.

[00:37:31] And then obviously, as we said up top, in all the chaos that's happening, I think the other thing is you see Powell's kind of second in command, the guy that had come back into the AVTF, who had been sort of injured and traumatized by the explosion in Daredevil's loft apartment. Yeah, by Punisher. Yeah, by Punisher in the first season. He is kind of looking on as though this isn't right. Yeah.

[00:38:00] It may have gone too far, even for him. Well, yeah. I think from the angle anyway, it seems like he saw Powell put the gun underneath Saunders' head and pull the trigger. And then he said, ah, damn those vigilantes. And you're kind of going, well, you know, if someone saw that, and he's the only one that seems to have witnessed it, you know, maybe he might turn on Powell. Yeah, absolutely. Somebody has to, haven't they? But I think in all the chaos that happens, Karen ultimately gets caught by Powell.

[00:38:30] Gun to the face. Because she's now recognizable with her wig malfunction. Yep. Yep. And that's where the episode ends. It ends with her gun to the face and Powell going, well, well, well, I've got you right here. One of the most wanted people in New York. So will he take her in and take her in alive? Because I think that's what Wilson Fisk wanted for mass. So he probably will take her in alive. And I have a feeling maybe that's how her and Bibi Uric will get together.

[00:38:58] Because she will be taken in as well. Right. They'll find themselves in a holding cell together. Writing articles for the bulletin again. Yeah. Maybe. What a great, exciting moment. And again, brilliant scenes from Deborah Amwell. Again, just really showing off who she is. I love that in the argument with Matt when he's kind of going, you know, you've changed. This isn't you, Karen. And she says, look, I grew up. You know, I'm not as innocent as I was when I thought that you didn't have to kill people.

[00:39:26] And I love that she reminds him that when Father Lantham was killed and he almost died and wanted to go out and kill Kingpin, Karen had said to him no. And now she's going, well, I rethought that. Maybe I was wrong at that time to tell you not to kill Kingpin. I've grown up. I'm telling you now, you should. So all of the stuff that she's doing here, she is also a leader of the resistance movement. This is her version of taking down Fisk is what she's done here.

[00:39:54] And now she is at gunpoint from Powell. Yeah, absolutely. Shall we get into our case note number five? Yes, let's get on to the final case note. Fight! Fight! It is, yes, the Kingpin and Daredevil fight. This was just great. I mean, this is where you see the true power of Kingpin. Yes.

[00:40:23] Yes, we know he can do a good right hook against the Matterhorn. We know he can squeeze any tube of tomato paste and toothpaste fully if given the chance. Or a surgeon. Or a surgeon. But it's when up against a superhero like Daredevil, whose superpowers you realize that Kingpin is as well.

[00:40:46] This isn't just that he can squeeze a regular human or throw a punch to a regular boxer human. This is he can, you know, go toe to toe with the likes of Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and so on. And he's very, very powerful. I loved how this played out. I love that he gets Daredevil on the ropes as well.

[00:41:14] And that Daredevil comes back, you know, fighting, utilizing. I love the use of the billy clubs here. Oh, they're so cool. So, so good. Bounce them off walls and bounce them off Kingpin's head. Yeah. And like, I think because of everything that happened with Karen, I actually thought he was going to kill, look to kill Kingpin. Yeah. And maybe he was to begin with.

[00:41:39] But he had a readjustment during the fight or after being really knocked down by Fisk at the start. But I was kind of really intrigued to see how this was going. Like, in terms of what Fisk says, you know, right at the end to him, where he says, but what will you do? Just really good. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:42:02] Because interestingly, this fight starts out with Matt visiting Kingpin when he's in his basement looking at the rabbit in the snowstorm painting and giving him an offer. And the offer is both of them leave New York and never come back. And that will create the peace that they've both been looking for. They're both constantly saying that they are the protectors of the city. They're doing everything to save New York. Well, if they really believe that, why can't both of them leave the city?

[00:42:29] And everything calms itself down and everything just goes on as normal. But Kingpin's not willing to do that. And interestingly, the switch is, Matt says, what if we'd never met each other? If we'd never met each other, Foggy wouldn't be dead. Vanessa wouldn't. And then that's when the chair gets hurled at his head. Because he suggests that if the two of them hadn't met each other, Vanessa wouldn't be dead. And that just pushes Wilson Fisk over the edge. Just some amazing moments in this fight.

[00:42:58] The fact that Kingpin picks him up and smacks him off the wall behind the painting and the painting rips open. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just a great touch because of everything that's happened around that painting for the last five seasons of the show. I know. And yes, it ends with Wilson Fisk on the floor bloody and beaten after that amazing moment where Daredevil wrapped his billy clubs around his neck and kneed him in the face to knock him to the ground. So Daredevil does win the fight. Yeah. I was thinking he was going to strangle him.

[00:43:28] I know. Yeah. But he flips over and takes the billy clubs back. And that leads to Fisk going, what do you do now? You can't arrest me. You don't have the power to arrest me. And you will never kill me. So what do you do now? Yeah. And we are left there at that point. Oh, it's superb. Yeah, really good. On the two of them in their battle. Yeah, loved it. I loved the ending that just went there. It was really good. Two great cliffhangers. Cliffhangers, one with Karen and one with Matt. Yeah. Will Matt kill Fisk because of what Karen said to him? Or will...

[00:43:57] And one with Bebe. And one with Bebe as well. Three major characters in peril. Superb stuff. Absolutely. Maybe the Defenders will run into town and save them all. Yes. Shall we get on to our notes? Because with the arrival of the Whiskey Swiller, old Jessica Jones, we do have a Whiskey Watch. But not from Jessica. She wasn't feeding Danielle shots or anything, thankfully. No. I would never expect that.

[00:44:23] But sort of a little dip of the little finger in to help her sleep. I think parents aren't allowed to do that anymore. Oh, okay. Grant. Took that out of crack pressure. That explains me then. It does. Half a glass of Guinness is grand when you're a baby, isn't it? Absolutely. To get you to sleep. I think my mum was... I've probably said this many times, but I think, yeah, my mum was actually prescribed a bottle of Guinness. Yeah. I think once a week. Once a week. By the doctor. With some cabbage, which made... To get the iron, yeah. Which is the reason that made you move to Ireland, wasn't it? Absolutely, yeah. Cabbage and Guinness.

[00:44:53] And my mum was mad into... So she needed iron, clearly. Yes, exactly. Mad into cabbage as well. So it was iron central. Absolutely. But, yes. That's why you're so strong. Well. Anyway. But anyway. Yes. So we do get a whiskey watch here, fellow defenders. A branded whiskey, finally. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:45:18] As Mr. Charles is drinking some 20-year-old Michters whiskey that he gave to Governor McCaffrey. Yes. And, yeah. Yeah. And so never heard of this brand, but it is one of the oldest U.S. whiskeys with it being founded in... Or the distillery was founded in 1753. So it predates the American War of Independence. Did it cause it? Probably.

[00:45:46] Not enough Michters to go with their tea, I guess. We don't want your tea anymore. We just want Michters whiskey. Yeah, maybe that. So, yeah. That's kind of really interesting. It's a real long-standing brand there. Yes. And now we know what we have to get a bottle of for the finale of Daredevil Port again. Yeah. Michters whiskey. Doesn't have to be 20-year-olds. It'd be interesting as well. Is it a whiskey that's done in sort of the bourbon style or sort of more along the lines

[00:46:15] of, you know, a Scotch or an Irish whiskey? That would be kind of interesting. We'll have to check that out. Probably does maybe bourbon... Probably does a bourbon anyway. I was wondering about your pronunciation of bourbon because they're dipped in tea. Bourbon is the alcoholic drink. Bourbon, yes. The alcoholic whiskey, yeah. Yes. I do like a bourbon as well. Yes, true. Dipped in bourbon. Excellent. Lovely stuff.

[00:46:41] But yes, we finally have Whiskey Watch in our coverage of Daredevil. Good stuff. Yes, we do. So I think it's to our defense. I think so. So, lads, do you defend this episode? So, Derek, do you defend Daredevil Born Again? Season 2, Episode 6, Requiem. Well, you stole my line at the beginning of this episode because I watched this when I got up the morning it came out and John was in work.

[00:47:11] And then when he came back in the evening, I was recording our episode on Invincible. And all I said to John was, this is an excellent episode. And it's not just because Jessica Jones is in it. And John started the podcast with that. This is an excellent episode. There's so much stuff that went on. I absolutely loved it. I love seeing Christian Ritter back. I love that we got a moment of her being fluffy mom for a second with Danielle. I was really surprised to see Danielle in there. I'd heard the rumors that Jessica had her baby. Danielle, there's a quote of that that went around weeks ago.

[00:47:40] But I didn't know we were going to see Danielle on screen. That's really cool. So lots to talk about that in the future, about who Danielle's dad is, who she may have been named after and why is another great theory that we may talk about as well. Yeah, so that's really cool. And then everything else that was going on, our main three resistance people are now in jeopardy by the end of the episode with Matt, Karen and Bebe. Karen potentially going to be killed by Powell. Matt potentially going to kill Kingpin because of the instructions from Karen.

[00:48:10] And Bebe potentially going to be, well, buried up in Albany. Yeah, another one. Yeah. A mass grave in Albany soon enough. I think there probably is after all those seasons of Sopranos. But a really excellent episode. I'm loving this series of the show. I'm really excited to see where the last two episodes of the show go. And hopefully we get a bit more Jessica Jones before the end of the season too. Yeah, definitely. Great stuff. How many stuff, John? Do you defend this episode of Daredevil Born Again? Oh, I do indeed.

[00:48:38] Yes, I'd give this five surgical squeezes out of five. I guess pimple poppers out of five. Yeah, really, really enjoyed this from the bear hug, which had me going. I mean, just the opening was like, oh, I can't watch this. He's going to, this is not going to end well for the surgeon. To having Jessica Jones here.

[00:49:01] I think just the general sense of moving into sort of like slight sort of tense, aggravated standoff in the city of New York. And both outside City Hall, but equally between, you know, colleagues and friends with Daniel and B.B. Urick. Just really, really good.

[00:49:26] I kind of like a lot that a lot of this is being driven by Buck Cashman here. The hell was going on with Heather? Yeah, exactly. Strangle me like your murderer tried to strangle you. That was really kind of interesting. So, yeah, this to me was really good. Some great fight scenes with Jessica and Daredevil in the warehouse.

[00:49:49] But also then that final one between Daredevil and Wilson Fisk. Just really, really good. So for me, five surgical squeezes out of five. Excellent, excellent. Oh, right. Let's get a shot of whiskey, John. I'm heading on down to the local bar. Need a mictus, I think. Welcome to the bar, to Josie's Bar, fellow defenders and fellow quizzers. We're on to question six.

[00:50:17] What test of loyalty does Buck suggest Daniel use on B.B. Urick? That was a very good scene. You were probably wondering why we didn't mention that. But a very funny scene with Daniel, wasn't it? Yes, it was. John, do you want to get the question one more time? Absolutely. Absolutely. What test of loyalty does Buck suggest Daniel use on B.B. Urick? That's question six of Ace. Get your correct answers in to us at the end of the season to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com.

[00:50:43] And you can be able to chance of getting your hands on some Daredevil born again goodies at the end of the season. I think we need to get on to some feedback, John. Absolutely. We have a voicemail in from Harrison Fox on this episode of Daredevil. Hi, fellow defenders. Harrison Fox calling in again for Daredevil season two, episode six. Wow. Can we just talk about Wilson Fisk for one second and how a Daredevil born again has told me two things.

[00:51:11] Never shake the hand of a caged up Frank Castle and never hug a sad Wilson Fisk. He's got to be enhanced, right? I mean, I just rewatched the Netflix show and, you know, he was tough. But since he came to Disney+, he's getting hit by cars. He's getting shot in the face. He's crushing police commissioners' heads. He's hugging doctors till they explode. If he doesn't have a broken hand after punching that brick pillar, oh, man.

[00:51:41] No, that was, he was wild in this episode. Need to talk about Jessica Jones, of course. Unfortunately, that bit was, I knew she was going to be in the show eventually. The little icon for the episode preview has her in it. Okay, thanks Disney+, for giving me a warning, I guess. Her powers being on the fritz, very interesting. Because it sounded like she flew in or did her super jump to meet Matt.

[00:52:09] Then all of a sudden, she couldn't, her strength was gone. So, yeah, seems very wild. I have 10 seconds left. Oh, my God. Great episode. Can't wait to hear what you guys say. All right. I'll talk to you soon. Fantastic, Harrison. Absolutely. I didn't realize there was a countdown on the website. Thanks, Harrison. I think it's like 90 seconds you get or something like that. So, thank you so much for your concise thoughts.

[00:52:35] Because, yeah, it's a packed episode with the return of Jessica and also just these big fights. But, yeah, equally, totally with you. You don't want to get hugged by Wilson Fisk. I thought your don't shake the hand that feeds you was kind of a play on nine-inch nails, bite the hand that feeds you.

[00:53:00] And so, yeah, because equally, I think Frank Castle probably would bite your hand as well. Yes. Or bite it and then leave you in the cell anyway. It's an interesting question as well about Kingpin as to whether he is enhanced in the Disney Plus series. Because we did see him back in Hawkeye and he was very powerful there when he was fighting against Kate Bishop and Hawkeye and Echo back then.

[00:53:25] But I don't think they've ever made any mention of whether he has any kind of superhuman abilities in the Disney Plus era. He just is very, very strong and knows how to use it, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. But, I mean, yeah, I think there's some power up, but it's unexplained. Yeah, exactly.

[00:53:50] Certainly, I mean, I know people might be able to survive a bullet to the head, but it was point blank in the cranium. So, yeah, very lucky. He was. He was. Great stuff. Thanks so much, Harrison, for your voicemail feedback. Yeah, thanks, Harrison. And now on to our email feedback. First up, we have an email from Kyle in Liverpool who sent us an email after last week's episode. He says, Hi, guys.

[00:54:17] Really enjoying this season of Daredevil, especially episodes four and five, which feel like we're finally getting back to the standards set by the Netflix Daredevil show. I hate waiting weekly for episodes. Your weekly podcast really helps to bridge the gap. That's great. Thanks, Kyle. Yeah, thanks, Kyle. One thing that is bugging me, where is Frank Castle? He played such a big part in the Born Again season one finale. It seems strange that he is nowhere to be seen.

[00:54:45] He's been name dropped twice already this season by Karen and Bullseye, which seems very intentional to keep him loosely part of the storyline. Do you think there's a chance he appears again this season? Or do you think the upcoming Punisher special presentation will connect to the Born Again storyline instead? Also, do you think we will ever see his escape from Red Hook? This was teased at the very end of season one.

[00:55:11] But episode three of this season would suggest he escaped alone and left everyone else in their cages. Sounds like Frank. Would love to hear your thoughts. Many thanks, Kyle from Liverpool. Thanks so much, Kyle, for your feedback. Yeah, I guess he just left everyone in their cages. I know.

[00:55:33] I think it may have been a little bit earlier in the roundup, so there may not have been other people. Oh, there were. Were there? I can't remember. The Sorda was there. It was basically the camera pounding. Okay, I can't defend him then. Yeah, there's no defense for this. They had to write him out of the show because he wasn't signed in for the second season. He was signed up to write and produce the Punisher special. That's the behind the scenes stuff.

[00:55:59] But yes, it is really harsh until we've seen that special. It's really hard to judge Frank and what he did. Because yes, literally that closing scene at the end of Daredevil Born Again season one was it panned across all of those cages. We see that Frank was in one of the cages. He talks one of the guys into coming too close to the cage, breaks himself out, and then walks off into the sunset. You know? Oh, dear.

[00:56:26] Yeah, it feels like Frank's never been that type of hero. Yeah, he doesn't play well, does he? Yeah, like he will save people and he will protect people, of course, but he's not really that type of hero like Daredevil. To save people from a prison. It's more saving people from sort of people trying to kill them. Yeah. But not people locked in prison. Look, it's very harsh. I don't think it is what Frank Castle did. I think if we are going to see anything about it, we'll see it in the special.

[00:56:55] He may have been met with overwhelming force and he just couldn't, you know? But I hope we do get to see that because right now it feels like Frank just walked out of the door. So all we've seen of it is just that scene at the end of Daredevil. I don't think we're going to see him in the last couple of episodes of this season. I know he's been mentioned a few times and there is that question over him, but literally one week after the final episode comes out, we're going to see the Punisher special and I hope they do address it.

[00:57:22] And I hope they do show where he's been and what he's been doing and why he didn't come back to help the people and why he didn't free them from their cages. That feels like something that would be very important to do since the last time we saw him, right? Yes, absolutely. Excellent stuff. Thanks very much, Kyle. I'm glad you're listening along with us and we're easing the distance between episodes. Absolutely. Thanks, Kyle. We also got some feedback in from Victor Cherry Von Doom. He says, greetings, defenders. For me, these were more bang episodes. Heather's slipping into darkness is creepy.

[00:57:52] What I found more creepy is book is already there. Hey, is that Luke and Jessica's kid? Wow, big plot plans in the offing. I hope the reports of a defender's return are true. As suspected, Mr. Charles and Val are washing their hands of Fisk. Who else might they be sending to clean up on Isle Kingpin? More Matt Lillard, please. I am impressed with the presentation of different characters' struggles with good, evil, life-death decisions. It seems the only person at peace with their situation is Dex. I felt the Rock'em Sock'em action was hot, as always.

[00:58:22] Looking forward to a great end of season. Down goes Fisk. Down goes Fisk. Our Kossel misquote. Excelsior, Victor Cherry Von Doom. P.S. With Dex out of action, it would seem the Powell-Deadpool odds have moved in Frank's favour. With the events of episode 6, should we now add the Governor, Karen, and plot-armoured Kingpin himself to the Deadpool? Ooh, very good thoughts there, Victor. I had to look up who Howard Cassell is, John, because I had no idea. Okay, yeah.

[00:58:48] So, Howard Cassell was a commentator on the George Foreman-Joe Fraser fight. Okay, yes. So, it was down goes Fraser. Down goes Fraser was his famous quote, apparently. Thanks so much for that, Victor. Yeah, thanks so much, Victor. But, like you, I definitely want to know how and if and maybe when, you know, possible plans for bringing back the defenders would be.

[00:59:13] And, indeed, yeah, seeing Jess's kid, it does open up avenues here, potentially. It certainly does. I just thought about it. I know I said during the main podcast, Luke doesn't seem like the kind of person that would work for a government agency. But, remember, the team up between Iron Fist and Luke Cage is called Heroes for Hire. Yeah. So, maybe they are the Heroes for Hire that are sent in by Matt Lillard to take out the Kingpin. Yeah, that, absolutely. Could be that. Oh, we need more Heroes for Hire comics. Yes, we do.

[00:59:42] I've got so many of those old ones, but, yeah, they haven't done them in ages. Certainly not since the Defenders on Netflix as well. Yeah, yeah. And that was Defenders, really. Yeah. They didn't focus on just the two of them. Even though Jessica got her own spin-off. She did. Comic series. And a new series just started a couple months ago as well. The new Jessica Jones series. Absolutely. Well worth checking out. Definitely. And the person who gets the Daredevil Born Again goodies may also get a copy of the first issue of that.

[01:00:12] Okay. There you go. Spoilers. Great stuff. Thanks, Victor. Coffee and Vodka says, Greetings, fellow plot-ender defenders. I know what the talking points are supposed to be, the return of Jessica and the real-world parallels. What sticks out to me is the rush of creatives to be done and dusted with this current storyline.

[01:00:32] A move I've long been cheerleading for, but seeing the suddenness of everything, even I was thinking it could have used another preparatory episode or two. Making up for the lack of forward momentum of the last excellent Foggy Field episode, we saw the stalling of Fisk on a state level. The destruction of the weapon stash. The here and no further of the Lady Muse plotline. Instant demonstrations and more. Still, there were things of note.

[01:01:02] Karen's readiness to point-blank bullseye chief among them, really putting it out there for her Emmy consideration. Definitely. Lots to love this season so far, but much depends on how it's capped. Finally, we've got our questions. Whose child is that? And was Jessica referring to another team outside of the Avengers 2.0?

[01:01:24] 3.8, tactical playthings, shoehorn strangulations, and rabbit remnants out of five. Peace and take care. Coffee and vodka. Excellent coffee and vodka. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? It does read a pen. We've still got two more episodes left, so it's not like the Wilson Fisk storyline will be over next episode. The one thing that stuck out to me when I watched it the second time was Matthew Lillard is over in the governor's house after midnight. It's very clear that they say it's after midnight.

[01:01:54] And then Buck Cashman goes and talks to the kingpin and says the governor is going to withdraw her support. So much like what Victor Von Doom said, I think that adds the governor straight on to the Deadpool for this, for the next episode. Absolutely. And if the governor's gone, well, how can she withdraw her support of kingpin? So, yeah, I think while there has been lots of movement in this episode, you're absolutely right. There's so much more in this episode than I was expecting, especially after the flashback episode last week.

[01:02:23] But I think there's lots that can be rolled back next week to lead to a really exciting finale in a couple of weeks now. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Good stuff. Thanks, coffee and vodka. Absolutely. Thanks, coffee and vodka. Meryl Smith had an email in to us for this episode. She says, Welcome back, Defenders. There's extra emphasis on that title as we have a return of one Jessica Jones played by the lovely Kristen Ritter. She slides back into this role so seamlessly. It's like she never left. Jessica's older, wiser, still got that dry wit that only she can produce. And she's got a daughter.

[01:02:53] I wonder who's the dad. And I assume that it involved consecutive cups of coffee. Sweet Christmas. Absolutely. Shameless plug here. But you guys should definitely check out Kristen Ritter's show, Don't Trust the Bitch in Apartment 23. Her comedy, styling and performance are amazing. It makes you see her performance as Jessica Jones in a different light, knowing what else she had in her acting repertoire. Also, you get James Van Der Beek as well, or IP. I actually haven't seen Don't Trust the Bitch at all. I've heard about it for years.

[01:03:19] And I know she's a very calm, cool character in Jessica Jones. Very smart, very, very strong character. And she's very funny in Don't Trust the Bitch. I've seen her in interviews as well, Kristen Ritter. And she's always been a funny actress. We did see her in the last season of Dexter, which she was filming at the same time as Daredevil Born Again in New York. So she's quite, well, not similar to Jessica Jones. She's quite an evil villainous character in the Dexter show.

[01:03:47] But it would be interesting to see her comedy styling on screen, wouldn't it? Must check that out. Meryl continues, Any scene that involves the same energy as Batman under the red hood is good to me, which we got here with Matt, Karen and Dex substituting for Batman, Joker and Red Hood. It's effectively two people arguing about their issues and morality while a psychopath is in the room just eating up the drama and loving the chaos going on around them. Love that we got another hello, Karen. And this time she got to respond to it. RIP to that doctor. Death by a bear hug. A nasty way to go.

[01:04:17] I knew that we'd be getting a Kingpin versus Daredevil face-off, but I thought it would be in the finale. Not this soon. But I'll take it as there was so much packed into this fight as there is with all of their fights, especially the symbolic destruction of the rabbit in the snowstorm painting as collateral damage in their skirmish. The ultimate metaphor for these two is that everyone else could be destroyed around them, but ultimately they will both remain the same immovable object on opposite sides of the law, continuing to fight to take the other one down.

[01:04:44] If Karen can't take out Bullseye, maybe she can be the one to take out Powell because he's been too involved for my liking and I think that it's time for him to go. Looking forward to seeing what twists and turns this show delivers upon us next time. Keep watching, keep listening, keep reviewing and most importantly, keep defending. Four dead docs out of five. Excellent, Meryl. Thank you so much. I love the reference to Batman under the Red Hood. Great parallel there to what goes on here for sure.

[01:05:13] I mean, interestingly as well, just hearing your thoughts around Wilson Fisk as well and the face-off with Daredevil. It's interesting, isn't it? Because I'm assuming he feels or looks done, but you just wonder, and certainly because we've seen a little snippet of who might be the mayor in the Spider-Man trailer. Yes, we have. But I just wonder if he's moved upstate to Albany. Has he become the governor? Do you know what I mean? Oh, yeah.

[01:05:42] Like, I just wonder, is it too early to say that the reign of the Kingpin has gone? Even though it's looking pretty bleak for him here. You know, he's in the throes of despair following the loss of Vanessa. Yeah. And he's just been told he's lost support. He's got protesters and rioters now. So who knows? And he's lost Rabbit on a Snowstorm as well. And he's lost Rabbit on a Snowstorm.

[01:06:12] He can't stare at that to calm him down. No, he can't. And Daredevil just told him to leave New York and he goes, right, I'm going to Albany to become governor. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You just wonder. I love it, John. I love it. But great feedback. Thanks so much, Meryl. Absolutely. Great to hear from you, Meryl. Well, thanks so much for sending your feedback. Over on Discord, Glomdy says, I'll forgive them for teasing Jessica so hard and only giving us five seconds with her because the scene at the end with Fisk and Matt was so good.

[01:06:38] Did not expect Matt to just come and see him to try and make peace like that. Yeah. It was a surprise, wasn't it? Absolutely, yeah. Well, as I say, I did think he was there to kill him. Yeah. Because of the conversation or the argument, I should say, with Karen. Yeah, me too. Me too. Definitely thought he was going to kill him. Great stuff. Thanks, Glomdy. Yeah, thanks, Glomdy. Walt658 says, what a cliffhanger. I think the most interesting way to resolve it is for Bullseye to save Karen by killing,

[01:07:07] injuring Powell. That would be an awesome twist. What a cool idea. Yeah, that would be a nice twist. All he needs is a paperclip and then he's out of those cuffs in like three seconds. Absolutely. He'd probably do it with like cellar tape. From across the city or something. Yes, absolutely. Thanks, Walt. Yeah, thanks, Walt. Over on Facebook, we got some feedback through from Mathematician. Why did Disney Plus have to have a huge picture of Jessica on their wallpaper background to this week's episode, ruining the surprise that she was back?

[01:07:36] They did this before when they took Hulk in the Ragnarok trailer. Not a fan. No way you'd have seen me going in to explain to Fisk that I'd done all I could if I were that surgeon. Nope. Absolutely. And I'd have been using it as a work experience for my protégé, telling him, her, as a good mentor, of course, that they had to start somewhere, gaining experience in what must be the worst part of their job. Alice Scrubs, I guess. I've never done Scrubs this season.

[01:08:06] That's what I was thinking, yeah. Great stuff there, Mathematician. Yeah, that would have been really funny. This could be another Marvel Universe, I guess. It's a what-if episode. Yeah, it's a what-if episode. It would be really good. Mathematician continues, Book outside is on hand to clean up the mess as per usual. Jessica is back, and it looks like her semi-frequent rumpy-pumpy evenings with Luke Cage have borne fruit. The task force are on the move and have made the mistake of thinking they could take Jessica.

[01:08:35] So that's her quiet life out of the window, and the Resistance could have a new member. Karen is struggling more with Matt's refusal to kill Kingpin than even I was, but he refuses to back down and heads off to meet Jessica. Governor McCaffrey tells Sheila that Fisk may have to change his plans for the task force, and it looks like she wants Fisk's campaign advisor to take over from her when her term ends. Sheila prepare. Yeah.

[01:09:03] At the same time, Book is sweet-talking the potential competition, trying to get him on Fisk's side. Book's a busy man, as he is also on BB and tasks Daniel with smoking it out with a false story. He has a sinister way about him that scares the bejesus out of Daniel. Absolutely. Kingpin dismisses Mr. Charles after stealing all of Val's weapons and arming his task force with them. Will Val and Charles take this lying down? Nope.

[01:09:31] I suspect he's in for a little bit of a face-off here. Continuing, Jessica fills Matt in on whom Mr. Charles is, and we see them team up to take on the task force and blow up the warehouse where Fisk is storing the military-grade weapons, but is surprisingly flawed and bleeding by a punch from the most hateable person on TV, task force leader Powell. Have I missed something here?

[01:09:57] I would have thought that she could easily deal with Powell, but he took her out like she had no powers. Absolutely at all. Equally, I think what I thought, that he somehow had acquired powers, which was even more scary, to be honest. But it's the other end. And she says she is having problems with her powers occasionally. So I wonder if that's to do with the return of a certain purple family. Maybe. That'd be interesting. Messing with her powers. Messing.

[01:10:25] Which we'll see in Jessica Jones back again. Hooray! Let's hope. Maybe. Book's busy day continues as he has an edgy, heated exchange with Heather that appeared to be sexually charged, as well as a therapeutic for Heather. Daniel decides his loyalty lies with Fisk over Bebe, as he feeds her some lies to see if it leaks. Powell identifies the key cards used by Jones and Matt as belonging to Saunders. Oops. Karen badly wants to kill Dex, but Matt won't let her,

[01:10:55] and her frustration about why he always protects the bad guys comes out. I think she agrees with Matt deep down, but her desperation to get revenge for Foggy is clouding her judgment. What do we think Daniel wished for when he blew out his candles at his little party with his mom and Bebe? Hopefully that he wouldn't have to turn Bebe in. It felt like he was closing his eyes going, oh, I just wish she wasn't involved in this situation. I wish she was on the level and everything she was telling me is true.

[01:11:24] Yeah, absolutely. I guess that birthday wish isn't going to come true. We will see how that plays out indeed. Mathematician continues, Karen exposes Fisk by projecting onto the city hall the stories of the Red Hook prisoners, also letting the protesters know that it was Daredevil who rescued the captives, while Powell murders Saunders as punishment for giving his key card to Matt, subsequently blaming the protesters for it. So he has an excuse to order lethal force from his task force, but is spotted by Cole,

[01:11:53] who can't decide if he is good or bad, as he questions Powell, but then gets on with the job. Yeah. Okay, yes, it was Cole who spotted him. That's right. Yeah. So, yeah, good spot there, mathematician. Matt tries to reason with Fisk, offering an off-ramp for the Troubles, but Kingpin isn't interested, and a brutal fight breaks out between the two. Karen takes too much of a risk, and is captured by Powell, and we're left to wait another week to find out both her fate

[01:12:23] and what Matt decides to do about Kingpin. Lots of tension again this week. Great to see Jess back. Four fingers of Michters whiskey out of five. Mmm. That's a big pull, that one. Four fingers. Absolutely. Four shots. Fantastic. Thanks so much for your feedback on that one, mathematician. Yeah, definitely. Thanks so much. I mean, yeah, as you say, there's so much that could potentially play out here with Val and Charles,

[01:12:51] let alone seeing all these fates sort of play out over the next couple of episodes, whether it's Sheila, Will Hereser may be successful, will McCaffrey... Survive. Survive. Yeah. You know, because you always think Wilson Fisk may be out, and then all of a sudden, he's able to turn it around. Yeah. And I mean, that's the thing. As you say,

[01:13:21] Book was a very busy boy here in this episode, and it just shows you the handle he has on all the levers. Yeah. Like, he's got his fingers in every pie. Like, he knows about BB. He's telling Powell what to do. He's got intel coming from Albany. And, yeah, like, he is, like, he's almost like Wesley times two here. Oh, big time. Big time.

[01:13:50] And he's been around since the days of Wesley, so he knows how to keep himself alive as well. So, I would be surprised if they chose to have Karen take him out at the end of the season as well, that we don't see him for another season. I'd be surprised about that. So, let's see how it plays out. Absolutely. But good stuff. Thanks, Mathematician. And thank you so much to all our fellow defenders for their thoughts, theories, feedback, inputs, questions, you name it. Really great stuff. Keep it rolling in.

[01:14:20] Absolutely. Just two weeks left to go. We'll be back next week. With our chat, all about Daredevil Born Again, Season 2, Episode 7, The Hateful Darkness. And of course, the next question in our Josie's Bar quiz. If you're missing Chris, he has finished discussing Invincible Season 4 with me over on our main feed on TV Podcast Industries or on The Boys and Invincible feed. So, he will be back joining us for Daredevil, I think, next week is his plan. He's trying to get back up to date with Daredevil and The Boys. So, whichever one he gets up to date with, he says he'll join us

[01:14:49] next week for our chat. So, hopefully, it's Daredevil for the penultimate episode. Yeah, that'd be great. Wouldn't it? Yeah. The Defenders podcast team back together? Return, yes. Yeah, and who knows, we might get the actual Defenders in which case, we can shout it from the rafters. Wouldn't that be cool? Yeah, really good. Excellent stuff. thank you so much, fellow Defenders, for joining us for this episode of the podcast. Until next week, keep watching, keep listening, and of course,

[01:15:19] keep defending. Bye. Bye. So, case note number three, happy birthday, Daniel. Absolutely. Happy birthday to you. Absolutely.

[01:15:48] This was superb. I loved the whole tension in this moment. Absolutely. of his birthday between him and Daniel and, in a sense, carrying it over Little baby just there at his birthday. I'll see you next time.