Alien Earth Episode 4 Podcast

ALIEN EARTH EPISODE 4 TRANSCRIPT

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[JOHN]:This is the Alien Podcast on TV Podcast Industries, and we're discussing Alien Earth Episode 4 Observation.

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[ATOM EINS]:Are you still an employee of the Prodigy Corporation, or shall I have security remove you from the island?

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[ATOM EINS]:Excellent.

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[JOE HERMIT]:And when can I take her home?

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[ATOM EINS]:Let me be clear about something, Prodigy Medic Hermit.

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[ATOM EINS]:The unit you call your sister is the property of the Prodigy Corporation.

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[ATOM EINS]:She is a prototype for a transhuman product which once refined will create human immortality.

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[ATOM EINS]:This makes her the next evolutionary step between our animal past and our transhuman future.

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[ATOM EINS]:There is no universe in which you get to take her home.

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[ATOM EINS]:Are we clear?

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[JOE HERMIT]:She is still a human being.

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[ATOM EINS]:No, she is not.

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[ATOM EINS]:Not anymore.

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[JOHN]:Welcome back, fellow Lost Boys, and of course, fellow Aliens.

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[JOHN]:This is TV Podcast Industries, this is the Alien Podcast, and we're discussing Alien Earth Episode 4, Observation.

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[JOHN]:I am one of your hosts, John.

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[DEREK]:Over here twiddling some knobs and pushing some buttons, I'm your other host, Derek.

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[JOHN]:Just like Curly.

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[DEREK]:Exactly.

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[JOHN]:Ba-ba, red sheep, have you any eye?

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[DEREK]:Oh, gosh.

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[JOHN]:No, sir, no, sir.

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[DEREK]:You're all going to die.

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[DEREK]:Let me die.

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[DEREK]:Gosh.

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[DEREK]:What an episode of crazy weirdness.

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[DEREK]:And it seems like a quiet episode, but it was just quiet terror, I think, for the most part.

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[JOHN]:I think so, yeah.

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[JOHN]:And it was just uncomfortable all the way through.

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[JOHN]:And it was kicked off by just the doll head on the beach.

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[JOHN]:And I'm just like, just because it was intercut with what had happened in the previous episode, I was going, what are doll heads in Episode 3?

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[JOHN]:What on earth is going on here?

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[JOHN]:But it just puts, well, I mean, a doll head, anyway, will put me on edge.

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[JOHN]:But that really just kind of put me on edge, really, right from the start.

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[JOHN]:Yeah.

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[JOHN]:And I just think there was that quiet edge all the way through this, actually.

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[JOHN]:Whether it was Morrow and Slightly's interaction again, the ever-presence Kirsh and just the nature of Boy Kavalier anyway, the Octo eyeball, the Nibs, you name it.

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[JOHN]:It was all just this kind of really high background level of pure sort of edginess and tension that was just finely pulled like a guitar string.

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[JOHN]:So yeah, I mean, as you say, on the face of it, it feels like it's really just kind of exploring the current shenanigans going on in the Neverland compound.

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[JOHN]:But it's just so well done and with a tense edge to it.

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[JOHN]:I mean, even just Wendy, I think, you know, so yeah, really, really good for me and certainly gave me the old Willys.

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[DEREK]:Absolutely.

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[DEREK]:Absolutely.

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[DEREK]:And we hope you've been enjoying it as well.

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[DEREK]:Make sure you do subscribe to the podcast because we are about halfway through the series of Alien Earth and a couple more episodes to go.

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[DEREK]:So you can subscribe to the podcast by going over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com and we'd love to hear your thoughts on what you're thinking about the really unnerving show that is Alien Earth.

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[DEREK]:I think it's up there so far at four episodes in.

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[DEREK]:One of the best shows that I've watched this year.

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[DEREK]:I'm looking forward to it every single week.

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[DEREK]:So if you want to send your thoughts, you can email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or pop on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/tvpodcastindustries and leave your thoughts over there in the spoiler posts that I put up every week for Alien Earth.

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[JOHN]:Yes.

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[JOHN]:But like an alien specimen screeching towards the eyeball of a lab sheep.

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[JOHN]:Derek, let us get into our spoiler filled discussion of Episode 4 of Alien Earth, OBSERVATION.

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[JOHN]:Derek, who gave us what, when, where and how?

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[DEREK]:Well, the show, of course, is based on characters created by Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett with HR.

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[DEREK]:Geiger.

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[DEREK]:The show winner for the show is Noah Hawley.

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[DEREK]:And this episode was written by Noah Hawley and Bobak Esfarjani.

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[DEREK]:Bobak was a writer on the TV show Manifest and also co-wrote Episode 4 of One Division.

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[DEREK]:We interrupt this program.

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[DEREK]:That was the big twist episode.

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[DEREK]:If you remember, the first three of One Division were released in one day.

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[DEREK]:And then the fourth episode was the big reveal of what was going on.

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[DEREK]:So a big episode of One Division to be writing.

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[JOHN]:Yeah, absolutely.

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[JOHN]:Yeah, that's great.

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[JOHN]:It was really intriguing, isn't it?

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[JOHN]:Going from One Division, obviously Manifest, but also then to Alien Earth.

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[JOHN]:I do like how people move around and just what they can pick up and take on.

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[JOHN]:And deliver in a really, really like solid way.

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[DEREK]:Absolutely.

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[DEREK]:Absolutely.

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[DEREK]:And the episode was directed by Ugla Hauksdóttir.

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[DEREK]:Ugla is an Icelandic director who worked on The Power and also directed an episode of Season 4 of John's favourite TV show, Snowfall.

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[DEREK]:Also on FX, so an FX director.

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[DEREK]:Really a character driven show, Snowfall as well.

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[DEREK]:So you can see why Ugla will be tapped to do an episode like this, which is really all about the characters.

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[DEREK]:Yes, there's some massive science fiction, CGI moments in the episode, but it's all about the character interactions here as well.

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[JOHN]:It really is.

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[JOHN]:I mean, as the episode sort of says, it's an observation of a day in the life on Compound Neverland.

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[JOHN]:You know, what's going on and what's happening, you know?

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[JOHN]:And yeah, everything's really creepy.

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[DEREK]:Yeah, I think if there was one place on planet Earth at this particular point that I would not want to be, it's anywhere near Neverland.

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[JOHN]:And I'm glad it's an island.

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[DEREK]:Yes, absolutely.

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[DEREK]:And very difficult to get to.

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[DEREK]:Yes, I'm glad.

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[DEREK]:I'm glad of that.

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[JOHN]:Can the aliens swim?

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[DEREK]:We've seen them swim, yes.

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[JOHN]:I think so.

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[DEREK]:Yeah, we've seen them swim.

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[JOHN]:Do you reckon a Great White would go after it?

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[JOHN]:I guess they would.

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[DEREK]:Or would it go after a Great White?

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[JOHN]:No, because I don't think it's as good a swimmer.

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[JOHN]:Yes, it can swim, but it's like...

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[DEREK]:Well, we've seen them swim and take out victims in Alien Resurrection, I believe.

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[JOHN]:But have they taken out Great Whites?

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[DEREK]:Well, not yet.

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[DEREK]:But yeah, that eyeball monster might go in and grab one of the eyeballs of a shark, and then the whole ocean's open to it.

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[JOHN]:Well, that is true.

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[DEREK]:But John, do you want to tell us what you observed with the synopsis for Alien Earth Episode 4?

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Sure.

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[JOHN]:Wendy wakes up with her hearing disabled after she collapsed in the laboratory from the intense sound from the alien embryo.

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[JOHN]:Arthur adjusts her hearing so that she is able to hear the Xenomorph eggs without it being painful.

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[JOHN]:Boy Kavalier asks Wendy to replicate the sounds, and she is able to speak the language of the Xenomorphs in a frequency audible to humans.

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[JOHN]:Kirsch and Tootles test the octopus-like creature on a sheep, and it implants itself in the sheep's brain.

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[JOHN]:The parasitically controlled sheep stands up on its hind legs and focuses its attention on Kirsch, who remarks that the creature is highly intelligent.

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[JOHN]:Feeling left out, Boy Kavalier insists the creature focuses on him.

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[JOHN]:Meanwhile, Morrow continues to communicate with Slightly, and pressures him into revealing his real name as a sign of trust.

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[JOHN]:Morrow convinces Slightly to steal back the Xenomorph eggs, but after trying, Slightly contacts Morrow and tells him that it isn't possible to steal the eggs because there is way too much security.

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[JOHN]:Morrow pressures Slightly again, threatening the safety of his family, who he has tracked down using Slightly's real name.

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[JOHN]:He then directs Slightly to find a human and take them to the eggs, so that they can be infected by a facehooker.

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[JOHN]:It is revealed that Kirsh is listening to their conversations.

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[JOHN]:Elsewhere at the Neverland compound, Nibs claims she is pregnant, and when Dame Sylvia tries to make her talk about the rescue mission, Nibs becomes violent and is eventually put under house arrest, unbeknownst to her.

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[JOHN]:Hermit, now up and about and in recovery after his lung transplant, has become jaded after seeing how Wendy is treated, more as an experimental prototype than a person.

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[JOHN]:He attempts to quit prodigy and leave his position, only for Atom Eins to tell him that if he did, he'd be sent a large bill for his new lung and never see Wendy again.

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[JOHN]:Later that night, Wendy observes a xenomorph infected lung.

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[JOHN]:As she speaks in the clicks and chirps of the alien language, the xenomorph suddenly bursts out from Hermit's old lung.

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[JOHN]:As Wendy appears to precate the young xenomorph, seemingly comfortable to watch and touch it, Kirsch watches on.

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[DEREK]:What a cute little purring xenomorph.

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[JOHN]:With his little mini hands.

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[DEREK]:Oh, that's so weird.

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[JOHN]:A little Tyrannosaurus Rex arms.

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[DEREK]:But it's the fact that they're crossed over in front of its chest, just while it's watching on and trying to attack Wendy.

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[JOHN]:Like clutching its pearls.

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[DEREK]:Clutching its pearls, exactly.

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[DEREK]:It's very weird situations that were put in as fans of Aliens and Alien, and all of the Alien movies and Alien versus Predator, all those types of movies, seeing a character interact in the way that Wendy deals with an alien.

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[JOHN]:It's very unnerving.

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[DEREK]:Which usually, you get that close to an alien, it rips your face off.

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[JOHN]:Yeah, it's very unnerving.

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[JOHN]:Although I do think it's probably, with the exception of the original, with just the shock and awe of that chest bursting open, and given the limitations, I think they handled what the chest buster looks like, and it was very quick on screen.

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[JOHN]:But this seems to me to be one of the best realized chest busters ever.

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[JOHN]:I mean, it almost reminded me of a cobras.

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[DEREK]:Absolutely.

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[JOHN]:Just the way it wound around its tail and so on.

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[JOHN]:I thought that was really, really cooly done.

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[DEREK]:It was.

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[DEREK]:I think, yeah, the first chest buster that we saw just after coming out of John Hurt's body back in the original, it always looked like a bit of a finger puppet, which is quite difficult to make scary, even though just the concept of it was terrifying enough at the time.

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[DEREK]:I think that kind of got through the couple of seconds that it was on screen.

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[JOHN]:But now this is more was exactly absolutely the ethos for the whole Alien movie.

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[DEREK]:Yeah.

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[DEREK]:But this time, it's snapping its tail and its teeth at the same time.

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[DEREK]:All feel really creepy and scary.

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[DEREK]:So a really interesting, fun little moment at the end of the episode.

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[DEREK]:But let's get into our top moments for the episode, to chat all about the big things that happened, because lots of big things did happen in the episode.

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[DEREK]:Where do you want to start, John?

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[JOHN]:I think we should start at the beginning.

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[JOHN]:I think we should start with Wendy in her upload download recharge point.

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[JOHN]:But I kind of just, just because I think, you know, we saw her collapse and we were wondering, oh, is this kind of like a dream that she's experiencing?

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[JOHN]:But seemingly not, like it actually happened.

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[JOHN]:She collapses because just of how intense this noise was coming through to, as Boy Kavalier says, her audio processors, AKA ears.

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[JOHN]:And I kind of liked how, I think the two aspects of this that I really liked.

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[JOHN]:Firstly, I just liked the idea that it started off in silence.

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[JOHN]:Interestingly, because we were having issues with our own sound on the TV, I did think, oh no, it's happened again.

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[DEREK]:Derek hasn't fixed the bloody TV yet.

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[JOHN]:Well, actually, no.

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[JOHN]:And so in the end, that gave me a different perspective on it.

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[JOHN]:And I did really, I kind of liked that, how they were talking around her, but she couldn't hear anything because it kind of led into the other thing with Joe arriving ultimately.

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[DEREK]:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

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[DEREK]:Just to want to mention, just because you did say that we we'd questioned last week whether it was all in Wendy's mind.

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[DEREK]:Just interestingly, I do think they were expecting you to question that.

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[DEREK]:So we did question whether she had actually been in the in the room and fall into the ground because nobody reacted to her collapsing after what happened to her.

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[DEREK]:And actually, as the episode itself plays out, you kind of learn that they wouldn't react to Wendy if she fell over and collapsed because they don't really care.

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[DEREK]:They don't really care about anybody.

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[DEREK]:They're not having moments of, oh my God, I wonder what happened to my friend Wendy, because they're all focused on actually doing their experiments in that room and she fell behind them.

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[DEREK]:And they were like, yeah, yeah, we'll deal with that later, basically.

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[DEREK]:It didn't really matter.

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[DEREK]:It wasn't important to the situation that they were all in.

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[DEREK]:So the fact that they didn't react like humans would react if someone fainted behind them is just indicative of who those characters are, of who these particular hybrids and synthetics are in this situation.

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[JOHN]:Yeah, I guess so.

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[JOHN]:I mean, certainly, I think certainly Kirsch.

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[JOHN]:But equally, I think Curly and Tootles, yeah, they're the more distant of that group, even though they've got the memories of a human and they do have that or could potentially have that element of empathy.

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[JOHN]:They could have reacted, but yes, you're right.

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[JOHN]:I think so focused on it and on the biopsy that they were doing and the removal of the embryo that they didn't.

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[JOHN]:But I think getting back to this room, what I really liked was that opening silence, but I think how it plays into a bigger element here than primarily through Arthur and Boy Kavalier, in contrast to when Joe comes in.

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[JOHN]:Really, it's about another conversation that Joe has with Atom Eins later on.

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[JOHN]:It's the existential question, is she a person or is she a prototype?

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[JOHN]:I like the fact that in essence, you have Arthur talking about protocols and processes throughout this.

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[JOHN]:You have them talking about turning her hearing off, her audio processes down.

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[JOHN]:It's this starting point of how you view these hybrids.

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[JOHN]:From the perspective of the loved ones, at least for Joe, it's, this is Marcy and to Boy Kavalier, even though she is his favorite, and this is a piece of equipment that he owns, even though it's his favorite.

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[JOHN]:Even with Atom Eins, he is even more so, this is a unit that will make us trillions, he says later on.

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[JOHN]:So I kind of liked how it kind of really exposed that dichotomy of this one person.

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[JOHN]:Oh, absolutely.

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[JOHN]:And I thought it was really, really well done.

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[DEREK]:Yeah, this is very central to the whole concept of the show, what's actually happening in the show.

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[DEREK]:This concept of a scientific development has happened here, which could further humanity.

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[DEREK]:And here we are, and we've got to decide whether Wendy, this character that we're following, is a human or not.

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[DEREK]:And it's in the first moment really, that we hear anything.

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[DEREK]:It's Boy Kavalier walking into the room and cleaning out the entire room, including Dame Sylvie, who is trying to calm down Wendy, and he's turned around and we're going, no, no, this is an IT issue, not a gab session, get out of here, you're supposed to be doing a report on a field assessment.

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[DEREK]:I'll talk to the IT guy about this and why her hearing is picking up things it shouldn't be picking up.

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[DEREK]:It's just, he is so risible in this episode.

00:16:40.090 -- - 00:16:43.050
[DEREK]:I wanted to slap him so many times, Boy Kavalier.

00:16:43.310 -- - 00:16:57.030
[DEREK]:We mentioned the last episode, and I think the episode before, which is going to kill him, who's going to kill him, who's going to take the moment, and will it be all five of these specimens rounding on Boy Kavalier is how the series ends, just to give us that glory moment when he dies.

00:16:57.030 -- - 00:17:03.350
[DEREK]:But in this episode, you can see everybody gritting their teeth around how he deals with them, how he acts with them.

00:17:03.350 -- - 00:17:12.330
[DEREK]:There's a moment when we see Wendy learning that she can speak the Zeno language effectively.

00:17:12.430 -- - 00:17:14.790
[DEREK]:She's channeling it through her voicebox.

00:17:14.790 -- - 00:17:26.370
[DEREK]:And Kavalier takes the moment to have joy that he's been able to get this out of Wendy, and then turns around to Curly and instantly goes, oh yeah, you learned French, but can you do that?

00:17:26.370 -- - 00:17:33.810
[DEREK]:You know, this is a child, a 12 year old child who came to him last week telling him that she wanted to be his favorite of the children basically.

00:17:33.810 -- - 00:17:34.090
[JOHN]:Yeah.

00:17:34.150 -- - 00:17:40.710
[DEREK]:And he takes that moment just to slag her off and take and criticize her telling her she could never be as good as Wendy.

00:17:41.370 -- - 00:17:42.270
[JOHN]:Oh, absolutely.

00:17:42.270 -- - 00:17:42.530
[JOHN]:Yeah.

00:17:42.530 -- - 00:17:56.490
[JOHN]:I mean, I think it's like really interesting that once they find the pitch that is comfortable for Wendy, you have then Arthur wanting to turn it off and protect her.

00:17:56.490 -- - 00:18:00.570
[JOHN]:But actually Boy Kavalier, as well as Wendy, don't want that to happen.

00:18:00.570 -- - 00:18:05.970
[JOHN]:You know, Kavalier can see that potential of what she can do.

00:18:05.970 -- - 00:18:27.550
[JOHN]:And it plays a little bit later on where Arthur and Dame Sylvia have a conversation where he's becoming increasingly concerned that the protocols, the science of it is getting lost around effectively the rush to commercialization that, you know, they've just done this huge advancement in science.

00:18:27.550 -- - 00:18:28.190
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:18:28.230 -- - 00:18:43.590
[JOHN]:And there's a bedding in period, the protocols around temperament, behavior, which ultimately we see with Nibs in this episode, and what you do if something or X, Y or Z happens.

00:18:43.590 -- - 00:18:47.610
[JOHN]:And yet, as he says, he sent them into a crash site.

00:18:48.890 -- - 00:18:58.470
[JOHN]:And it's those things that are just kind of playing on his mind, and you see sort of here play out as well.

00:18:58.470 -- - 00:19:08.230
[JOHN]:So it's a really good opener because again, it's that tension between the personal and the impersonal of it all.

00:19:08.450 -- - 00:19:17.190
[DEREK]:And you know, you can almost see his side of the argument there, and Wendy's side of it, you know, she can hear an alien language and all you want to do is make that stop.

00:19:17.330 -- - 00:19:20.330
[DEREK]:You don't want to investigate it or learn anything more about it.

00:19:20.330 -- - 00:19:22.490
[DEREK]:You just want to make it stop because it might hurt her.

00:19:22.490 -- - 00:19:24.830
[DEREK]:Why don't we make it safe so it doesn't hurt her?

00:19:24.830 -- - 00:19:26.570
[DEREK]:Yeah, not turn it off basically.

00:19:26.570 -- - 00:19:29.730
[DEREK]:So you can kind of see that particular element of it.

00:19:29.730 -- - 00:19:45.570
[DEREK]:But there's also that point in the argument or conversation that Arthur and his wife, Dame, are having, where Arthur's saying to her, we were trying to get prepared for the launch of these massively complex products, and then suddenly we've got five new aliens here that we're trying to investigate.

00:19:45.670 -- - 00:19:50.070
[DEREK]:And he's sacrificing all the work that we've done to investigate these aliens.

00:19:50.070 -- - 00:19:54.110
[DEREK]:Weren't we supposed to be launching this product effectively, doing all of those tests.

00:19:54.110 -- - 00:19:56.730
[DEREK]:So he's moved on massively.

00:19:56.730 -- - 00:20:01.630
[DEREK]:And her argument, Dame, is trying to justify what Boy Kavalier is saying.

00:20:01.870 -- - 00:20:07.290
[DEREK]:And she's telling him that, you know, he's, it's like quantum leaps in physics, quantum leaps in science.

00:20:07.290 -- - 00:20:09.270
[DEREK]:He's taking jumps that you wouldn't normally take.

00:20:09.270 -- - 00:20:15.110
[DEREK]:That's why he's so far ahead in his scientific methods than everybody else, or maybe that's why he's so far ahead.

00:20:15.210 -- - 00:20:18.770
[DEREK]:And Arthur's kind of going, yeah, but you can't just drop one thing and move on to the next.

00:20:18.770 -- - 00:20:21.250
[DEREK]:We should be finishing one and move on.

00:20:21.250 -- - 00:20:22.990
[JOHN]:She's saying, you know, it's quantum physics.

00:20:22.990 -- - 00:20:26.570
[JOHN]:It's that, you know, light is a wave and a pulse.

00:20:26.570 -- - 00:20:31.650
[JOHN]:It's both these things at the same time, or the same sound.

00:20:31.650 -- - 00:20:39.710
[JOHN]:And it's kind of, you know, as Arthur says, yes, that's theoretical, you know, or theoretical quantum physics.

00:20:41.010 -- - 00:20:44.230
[JOHN]:We have things that show it's not theoretical because we've done it.

00:20:44.830 -- - 00:20:51.050
[JOHN]:And, you know, the best thing that we can hope for is that we've got six AIs that think they're children.

00:20:51.050 -- - 00:20:53.990
[JOHN]:At worst, we have killed six children.

00:20:53.990 -- - 00:20:54.510
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:20:54.510 -- - 00:21:00.330
[JOHN]:And, you know, and it gets the air of Dame Sylvia for sure.

00:21:00.330 -- - 00:21:09.030
[JOHN]:But, you know, he's just really concerned that there's still stuff to do, whereas he's views that Boy Kavalier thinks it's all done and dusted.

00:21:09.030 -- - 00:21:15.390
[JOHN]:And it's like, right, yeah, we move on to the next thing now, which he can, but Arthur can't.

00:21:15.390 -- - 00:21:15.930
[DEREK]:Well, exactly.

00:21:15.930 -- - 00:21:18.950
[JOHN]:Arthur shouldn't be being dragged into his new thing.

00:21:18.950 -- - 00:21:19.270
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:21:19.270 -- - 00:21:23.330
[DEREK]:And I don't even think Boy Kavalier thinks that the hybrids are done.

00:21:23.330 -- - 00:21:24.370
[DEREK]:I don't think he even thinks that.

00:21:24.370 -- - 00:21:25.350
[DEREK]:I think he just doesn't care.

00:21:25.350 -- - 00:21:27.830
[DEREK]:He's more interested in the next thing.

00:21:27.830 -- - 00:21:30.530
[DEREK]:He's just moving on because he wants to.

00:21:30.530 -- - 00:21:32.590
[DEREK]:You know, it's not that it's all finished.

00:21:32.590 -- - 00:21:34.270
[DEREK]:It's just really, really interesting.

00:21:34.270 -- - 00:21:44.390
[DEREK]:And just that moment as well, just to kind of talk about that for a second, that moment when we do hear Wendy channelling the voice of the Xenomorph through her mouth and through her throat.

00:21:44.390 -- - 00:21:51.370
[DEREK]:Again, it's always been a soundscape that's been used throughout all of these alien movies that just terrifies you.

00:21:51.370 -- - 00:22:06.790
[DEREK]:It kind of just runs my spine anyway, every time I hear it, you know, it just has that moment where you're a little creeped out and then seeing it coming out of the face of the Wendy character as she chirps and clicks like the Xenomorph, it's just so creepy.

00:22:06.790 -- - 00:22:17.230
[DEREK]:And I love that there is that moment just beforehand when she says she can hear it and Boy Kavalier turns around to Curly and goes, do you hear any noise that you can't explain?

00:22:17.230 -- - 00:22:19.390
[DEREK]:And Curly says, maybe.

00:22:19.430 -- - 00:22:24.230
[DEREK]:He goes, no, no, no, no, I don't want you to tell me what you think I want to hear.

00:22:24.230 -- - 00:22:25.350
[DEREK]:Can you hear it or not?

00:22:25.350 -- - 00:22:29.070
[DEREK]:And she just kind of annoyed, says, says no, she can't.

00:22:29.070 -- - 00:22:32.570
[DEREK]:But he's totally justified in himself here.

00:22:32.570 -- - 00:22:36.970
[DEREK]:He's following up on the analysis that he's done.

00:22:36.970 -- - 00:22:38.950
[DEREK]:He's following up on the work that he's done.

00:22:39.030 -- - 00:22:46.830
[DEREK]:He's now given Wendy the ability to speak this language of the Xenomorphs, even though she may not understand us.

00:22:46.830 -- - 00:22:51.250
[DEREK]:At least she's now able to channel it out and they can all hear it as a voice almost.

00:22:51.250 -- - 00:22:52.570
[JOHN]:Yeah, absolutely.

00:22:52.570 -- - 00:23:06.210
[DEREK]:And that kind of plays into a later moment when Boy Kavalier sits down with Wendy and wants to use her as the interaction point between the Xeno creatures and themselves.

00:23:06.410 -- - 00:23:16.150
[JOHN]:Well, absolutely, because I do like that he says to Joe, you won't believe what we've done with your old lung, you know, because actually Joe's had a lung transplant.

00:23:17.090 -- - 00:23:18.590
[DEREK]:So it wasn't being put back into him.

00:23:18.630 -- - 00:23:19.630
[JOHN]:No, exactly.

00:23:19.630 -- - 00:23:21.370
[DEREK]:Last week it was just a new lung that he got.

00:23:21.370 -- - 00:23:28.650
[DEREK]:But even that creepy little smile that's on Kavalier's face when he's telling Joe, you'll never guess what we did with your old lung.

00:23:28.650 -- - 00:23:32.190
[DEREK]:He's just got that smile and I'm going, you'll never know because we did this.

00:23:32.190 -- - 00:23:33.730
[DEREK]:We stuck a Xeno inside.

00:23:33.730 -- - 00:23:39.910
[DEREK]:Joe quite quickly figures out that all of those alien creatures are here in Neverland.

00:23:39.910 -- - 00:23:40.550
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:23:40.550 -- - 00:23:41.490
[JOHN]:Absolutely.

00:23:41.490 -- - 00:23:42.630
[JOHN]:Yeah, he does.

00:23:42.630 -- - 00:23:56.470
[JOHN]:But I think Wendy again, sort of back to Wendy and her ability now to be able to verbalize the Xenomorphs clicks and chirps and so on.

00:23:56.470 -- - 00:24:08.490
[JOHN]:She meets up again with Boy Kavalier, who again brings it back to the Peter Pan reference where he says, what was it like fighting the Xenomorph?

00:24:08.490 -- - 00:24:10.730
[JOHN]:Was it pirates or sailors?

00:24:10.730 -- - 00:24:11.150
[JOHN]:Yeah.

00:24:11.150 -- - 00:24:15.530
[JOHN]:He's like, no, no, you fought the crocodile and you won.

00:24:15.630 -- - 00:24:18.890
[DEREK]:And then you hear the ticking of the clock, which is the Xenomorph voices.

00:24:20.070 -- - 00:24:21.730
[JOHN]:But also then, well, what do they say?

00:24:21.730 -- - 00:24:24.310
[JOHN]:He's kind of asking, thinking that maybe she knows.

00:24:24.310 -- - 00:24:36.250
[JOHN]:And in the end, like Wendy is saying, you shouldn't have cut up the alien and done the biopsy and that we should send them back.

00:24:36.250 -- - 00:24:55.330
[JOHN]:But he's kind of, again, I like how Wendy, you know, in a sense, it's quite adult stuff and then reverts back to being a kid, where, you know, Boy Kavalier is saying, you know, help me figure out what the aliens are saying and he can stay, i.e.

00:24:55.330 -- - 00:24:56.830
[JOHN]:Joe.

00:24:56.830 -- - 00:25:01.010
[JOHN]:As soon as he becomes a distraction, you know, he's effectively gone.

00:25:01.010 -- - 00:25:02.470
[JOHN]:Let's do the pinky promise.

00:25:02.470 -- - 00:25:06.910
[JOHN]:So you have this pinky promise over something really quite serious.

00:25:06.910 -- - 00:25:13.270
[JOHN]:Or even worse, she's trying to argue with him and she just goes, please.

00:25:13.270 -- - 00:25:16.430
[JOHN]:And he's like, that's no argument at all, you know?

00:25:16.430 -- - 00:25:29.730
[JOHN]:And again, coming back to this point that this item, this object to him is the thing that he thought would debate with him and be his equal.

00:25:30.270 -- - 00:25:39.750
[JOHN]:And Wendy can do that, but also quite quickly revert to a childlike kind of frame of mind.

00:25:39.750 -- - 00:25:41.270
[DEREK]:Yeah, absolutely.

00:25:41.270 -- - 00:25:44.110
[JOHN]:Because of the memories of Marcy.

00:25:44.110 -- - 00:25:57.310
[JOHN]:So I just really like this, how, you know, in a sense, he's lined her up to find out what they say, what their language is, as you say, be that point of contact.

00:25:57.350 -- - 00:25:58.550
[DEREK]:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

00:25:58.550 -- - 00:26:10.770
[DEREK]:But just that manipulation of him again, you know, he is manipulating her like a child, but expecting her to have an entirely intellectual conversation with him, not saying, please keep my brother around.

00:26:10.770 -- - 00:26:16.090
[DEREK]:You know, he's treating her like a 10, 11-year-old when that suits him.

00:26:16.090 -- - 00:26:21.430
[DEREK]:But when it doesn't suit him, he tries to treat her like a full intellectually capable adult.

00:26:21.430 -- - 00:26:24.030
[DEREK]:You know, it's just how Boy Kavalier works.

00:26:24.030 -- - 00:26:25.410
[DEREK]:And yeah, he's horrible.

00:26:26.250 -- - 00:26:27.450
[JOHN]:Yeah, absolutely.

00:26:28.670 -- - 00:26:34.710
[JOHN]:And then, of course, at the end, we have Wendy speaking to the lung.

00:26:36.150 -- - 00:26:47.090
[JOHN]:And you see the embryo underneath or the gestating alien in the lung whizzing around.

00:26:47.090 -- - 00:26:48.910
[JOHN]:And then it bursts out.

00:26:48.910 -- - 00:26:49.570
[JOHN]:Yeah.

00:26:49.570 -- - 00:26:50.770
[DEREK]:There's an interesting moment there.

00:26:50.770 -- - 00:26:52.110
[DEREK]:I just couldn't, I couldn't figure it out.

00:26:52.270 -- - 00:26:58.730
[DEREK]:It's when she's watching the lung and we're hearing the kind of pistons of the lung breathing.

00:26:58.730 -- - 00:27:00.670
[DEREK]:Yeah, artificially breathing.

00:27:00.670 -- - 00:27:03.450
[DEREK]:And you hear her humming along almost.

00:27:03.450 -- - 00:27:12.650
[DEREK]:And it just comes all the way back to the start of the episode when Boy Kavalier is telling her, you know, you know, when you use your voice box effectively to make music, there's nothing there.

00:27:12.650 -- - 00:27:14.450
[DEREK]:And then you can make music out of it.

00:27:14.470 -- - 00:27:18.710
[DEREK]:Use that to channel the voice of the of the Xenomorphs.

00:27:18.710 -- - 00:27:25.370
[DEREK]:And it's almost like when she's humming, she's humming along with the TikTok of the of the lung.

00:27:25.670 -- - 00:27:35.590
[DEREK]:I don't know whether that was the intent, but it's just a really interesting moment that she's sitting there watching on with this lung and she's humming a tune that seems to be of the same beat almost as the lung.

00:27:35.590 -- - 00:27:41.670
[DEREK]:And then it pops the Xenomorph and smashes across the room.

00:27:41.670 -- - 00:27:47.870
[DEREK]:And then she calms it down by using this voice that she's learned, this Xenon language.

00:27:48.150 -- - 00:27:49.410
[JOHN]:It is really creepy.

00:27:49.410 -- - 00:28:08.310
[JOHN]:Because the other thing about when Wendy is verbalizing the sounds is because the lip, because it's clicks and chirps and all this kind of stuff, the lips stay relatively still.

00:28:08.310 -- - 00:28:14.690
[JOHN]:So it doesn't look, you just see the throat moving or the tongue inside, you know?

00:28:15.850 -- - 00:28:25.770
[JOHN]:And it almost feels slightly robotic as well, because of what she is as a hybrid, so part synth.

00:28:25.770 -- - 00:28:29.510
[JOHN]:And that in itself becomes very creepy.

00:28:29.510 -- - 00:28:39.410
[JOHN]:And then you bring in, you know, this freshly freshly made xenomorph and chest buster.

00:28:41.030 -- - 00:28:41.910
[DEREK]:Or a lung buster, I guess.

00:28:42.170 -- - 00:28:43.630
[JOHN]:A lung buster, yeah.

00:28:43.650 -- - 00:28:49.930
[JOHN]:And it's just really creepy that it and her are comfortable around it.

00:28:49.990 -- - 00:28:59.730
[JOHN]:I mean, I, me being me, has absolutely arms up over my eyes thinking this thing was suddenly going to sort of go down her throat or-

00:28:59.730 -- - 00:29:01.190
[DEREK]:Punch her through her head or something.

00:29:01.190 -- - 00:29:02.430
[JOHN]:Yeah, something.

00:29:02.870 -- - 00:29:03.670
[JOHN]:But actually-

00:29:03.670 -- - 00:29:07.990
[DEREK]:But instead, just add a layer of creepiness that you didn't even expect.

00:29:07.990 -- - 00:29:12.590
[DEREK]:Out of the darkness and shadow, Kirsch is also watching on to what's happening in the room as well.

00:29:12.590 -- - 00:29:14.910
[DEREK]:So just add an extra layer of creepiness.

00:29:14.910 -- - 00:29:16.950
[DEREK]:There's also a voyeur watching on.

00:29:16.950 -- - 00:29:22.750
[DEREK]:Just in case she gets murdered and destroyed by the Xeno, he's watching on to see what happens in the circumstance, I guess.

00:29:22.750 -- - 00:29:23.730
[JOHN]:Yeah, absolutely.

00:29:23.730 -- - 00:29:31.610
[JOHN]:And on that, I'm really just intrigued to know and see in the next episode whether Kirsch reports back because...

00:29:31.610 -- - 00:29:33.430
[DEREK]:Kirsch knows a lot now.

00:29:33.430 -- - 00:29:34.330
[JOHN]:Yeah, he knows a lot.

00:29:34.330 -- - 00:29:43.670
[DEREK]:We'll definitely talk more about that because there's another conversation he has in this episode that I think he's gone way beyond reporting things to people.

00:29:43.670 -- - 00:29:50.150
[DEREK]:It was interesting during the week, someone was asking about what is Kirsch, someone that didn't really know the Alien movies very well.

00:29:50.150 -- - 00:29:56.670
[DEREK]:And people were saying in response that he's a synth, like Ash in the first movie.

00:29:56.670 -- - 00:29:59.650
[DEREK]:And technically he is a synth, but he's a prodigy synth.

00:29:59.650 -- - 00:30:02.930
[DEREK]:He's a synth created by Boy Kavalier's company.

00:30:02.930 -- - 00:30:09.290
[DEREK]:He's not necessarily done with exactly the same plans as the ones that we've seen in Yutani, like David and Ash.

00:30:09.290 -- - 00:30:12.470
[DEREK]:He is a synth done by the prodigy company.

00:30:12.570 -- - 00:30:18.350
[DEREK]:So that might make him even more self-serving, let's say, than the others had been.

00:30:18.350 -- - 00:30:24.230
[DEREK]:The others were very much company people and were built to do what the company told them to do.

00:30:24.230 -- - 00:30:27.610
[DEREK]:I feel like Kirsh is on a slightly different wave than that.

00:30:27.610 -- - 00:30:28.090
[DEREK]:He's not.

00:30:28.090 -- - 00:30:35.470
[DEREK]:It's almost like Atom Eins is the one that's the company man, and he will do anything to protect prodigy as a company.

00:30:35.470 -- - 00:30:43.190
[DEREK]:Whereas Kirsh seems to be someone that you set him on a task and he will do that task to the greatest of his ability, sacrificing everything around him.

00:30:43.190 -- - 00:30:50.970
[JOHN]:There's the element of the philosophical about Kirsh in the same way that with David as well.

00:30:51.350 -- - 00:30:55.810
[JOHN]:Again, maybe to do with, as you say, how they're programmed.

00:30:56.070 -- - 00:31:02.110
[JOHN]:You have that David was actually closely connected with Wayland.

00:31:03.770 -- - 00:31:10.790
[JOHN]:And so, programmed slightly differently, maybe played the piano, did those kinds of tasks.

00:31:10.790 -- - 00:31:14.670
[JOHN]:The orientation of the mainframe was very different.

00:31:14.750 -- - 00:31:33.970
[JOHN]:Even though it was, you know, AI, it wasn't directed as such at a deep space research vessel and being sort of all the different functions on the, like say, ash was.

00:31:33.970 -- - 00:31:48.450
[JOHN]:Yes, he could do that as well, but also there was this whole sort of cultural element that was brought to David through being almost that personal synth of the head of the corporation.

00:31:48.450 -- - 00:31:48.790
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:31:49.010 -- - 00:32:14.190
[JOHN]:And you get the feeling here, Kirsch is in, as you say, similar sort of frame of mind in that his iterative thinking and learning as an AI is through being almost the right hand man or left hand man of the Boy Kavalier, head of prodigy.

00:32:14.190 -- - 00:32:18.310
[JOHN]:And so is the iterative learning is very different.

00:32:18.310 -- - 00:32:19.310
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:32:19.310 -- - 00:32:21.130
[JOHN]:To a normal AI.

00:32:21.130 -- - 00:32:21.610
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:32:21.610 -- - 00:32:22.010
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:32:22.010 -- - 00:32:30.330
[DEREK]:So another another moment in this episode that makes you keep your eyes on Kirsch for the rest of the series as well.

00:32:30.330 -- - 00:32:34.330
[DEREK]:And anything else about Wendy and her her conversations with the Xenomorphs?

00:32:36.150 -- - 00:32:39.130
[JOHN]:No, but I mean, I'm just really intrigued.

00:32:39.310 -- - 00:32:44.570
[JOHN]:And excited to see how this goes, because I mean, it's just not what I was thinking was going to be happening.

00:32:44.590 -- - 00:32:46.990
[JOHN]:So like, this is really cool.

00:32:46.990 -- - 00:32:47.270
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:32:47.270 -- - 00:32:50.950
[JOHN]:A kind of a really interesting, cool development.

00:32:50.950 -- - 00:32:57.730
[DEREK]:But I do feel like that was something within the synths that we've seen in the past, that they have got a lot of intrigue in the Xenomorphs.

00:32:57.730 -- - 00:33:10.710
[DEREK]:And because they're not technically targets of the Xenomorphs, unlike the humans, they they tend to get a bit more lost in the inspection or connection that they have with the Xenomorphs.

00:33:10.710 -- - 00:33:16.690
[JOHN]:But it's also the actual connection here with the young Xenomorph.

00:33:16.690 -- - 00:33:23.930
[JOHN]:And as you said before, that's also present in the Alien movies, this sort of potential connection.

00:33:23.930 -- - 00:33:25.110
[DEREK]:So yeah, let's explore it.

00:33:25.110 -- - 00:33:25.850
[JOHN]:Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:25.850 -- - 00:33:35.710
[JOHN]:I'm really interested to see where that goes, just to sort of open it out a bit further, a bit like Kirsch did with the Facehugger last episode.

00:33:35.750 -- - 00:33:37.310
[DEREK]:Yes, absolutely.

00:33:37.310 -- - 00:33:37.670
[DEREK]:Absolutely.

00:33:37.670 -- - 00:33:38.010
[DEREK]:Good stuff.

00:33:38.010 -- - 00:33:40.070
[DEREK]:Yeah, let's move on to another point.

00:33:40.070 -- - 00:33:44.010
[DEREK]:We've kind of talked about this a little bit, but I do want to talk about it in full.

00:33:44.010 -- - 00:33:46.710
[DEREK]:Joe now officially working for Prodigy.

00:33:46.710 -- - 00:33:58.530
[DEREK]:I do love when Joe walks into the room, Boy Kavalier looks at him and goes, we haven't actually met yet, but you work for me, or you work for a subsidiary of a company, of an LLC that works, that I own basically.

00:33:58.530 -- - 00:34:00.790
[DEREK]:So you are my employee.

00:34:00.790 -- - 00:34:02.710
[DEREK]:So I'll let you stay for a minute basically.

00:34:03.230 -- - 00:34:18.570
[DEREK]:But then the conversation all kind of kicks off because Joe's pushing back, trying to protect his sister, very much against Boy Kavalier's attitude of this piece of equipment that is doing a job for him.

00:34:20.490 -- - 00:34:29.110
[DEREK]:When he clears out the room and has his conversation with Atom Eins to set up the later discussion that he has with Joe, Boy Kavalier takes that position.

00:34:29.110 -- - 00:34:36.290
[DEREK]:Very specifically, he says, no threats to him, but just remind him, this is my world, he's just living in it.

00:34:36.290 -- - 00:34:52.810
[DEREK]:Which is, if there's any phrase that would describe how Boy Kavalier treats every single human or hybrid or synthetic or being that walks into his frame, that phrase of it's my world, they're just living in it is absolutely the best description of him.

00:34:52.810 -- - 00:34:54.610
[JOHN]:Oh, absolutely, yeah, completely.

00:34:54.750 -- - 00:35:04.230
[DEREK]:Even as he reads out the Peter Pan book to the kids over the microphone, he's reading it from the perspective of Peter as if Peter is some kind of hero.

00:35:04.250 -- - 00:35:05.470
[JOHN]:Yeah, absolutely.

00:35:05.470 -- - 00:35:16.250
[DEREK]:And if you know the story of Peter Pan, it's not about him being a hero, it's about him trying to keep kids as kids forever and stealing people from their families and trying to make everybody stay as children forever.

00:35:16.250 -- - 00:35:21.170
[DEREK]:That's not a great position to try and create the world.

00:35:21.250 -- - 00:35:21.790
[JOHN]:Absolutely.

00:35:21.790 -- - 00:35:35.550
[JOHN]:And actually, just getting back to when he was with Wendy with his circular sofa, and he's talking about that and he starts talking about, oh, dads, and then he's like, oh, mums.

00:35:35.550 -- - 00:35:42.450
[JOHN]:Again, this notion that he wants to be a kid forever as well.

00:35:42.450 -- - 00:35:47.750
[JOHN]:His conversation about, well, what is a genius?

00:35:47.750 -- - 00:35:53.190
[JOHN]:Kids are geniuses and prodigies because they are young as well as clever.

00:35:53.190 -- - 00:35:54.710
[DEREK]:Yeah, you can't learn to be a prodigy.

00:35:54.710 -- - 00:35:57.770
[DEREK]:You can only be a prodigy when you're young, when you're a kid.

00:35:57.770 -- - 00:36:01.510
[DEREK]:And yeah, Wendy's saying to him, well, Joe's a nice guy, you know, he's a nice guy.

00:36:01.510 -- - 00:36:05.390
[DEREK]:And he says, well, he is, if you like brothers, I don't like brothers.

00:36:05.390 -- - 00:36:06.170
[DEREK]:I don't like mothers.

00:36:06.170 -- - 00:36:07.050
[DEREK]:I don't like fathers.

00:36:07.050 -- - 00:36:07.310
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:36:07.310 -- - 00:36:17.170
[DEREK]:So there is that aspect of him that you're wondering how he's gotten here, but he doesn't like anything other than what he is and what he's created.

00:36:17.170 -- - 00:36:19.170
[DEREK]:Doesn't like anybody putting any kind of reins on him at all.

00:36:19.370 -- - 00:36:23.150
[DEREK]:So and he uses his dirty feet to point directions as well.

00:36:23.150 -- - 00:36:25.150
[JOHN]:He uses his feet quite a lot.

00:36:25.150 -- - 00:36:25.530
[DEREK]:He does.

00:36:25.530 -- - 00:36:31.390
[DEREK]:And the actor actually said that was the choice he made because and it plays right into that line I mentioned earlier on.

00:36:31.390 -- - 00:36:35.210
[DEREK]:He owns every single square inch of Neverland.

00:36:35.210 -- - 00:36:39.910
[DEREK]:So he's going to walk around in his feet with no shoes and socks because he owns every single thing there.

00:36:39.910 -- - 00:36:42.930
[DEREK]:That's his little stamp that he put on the character.

00:36:42.930 -- - 00:36:46.490
[DEREK]:He walks around it because he owns every single square inch of it.

00:36:46.490 -- - 00:36:47.290
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:36:47.290 -- - 00:36:53.250
[JOHN]:I mean, the other thing as well, around Joe, I think, here, there's a few things.

00:36:53.270 -- - 00:37:07.710
[JOHN]:We have this moment with him and Wendy back at her room where they're talking and he's like, you find out that he wasn't able to see her or dad when they were in hospital.

00:37:07.710 -- - 00:37:12.290
[JOHN]:And yeah, Boy Kavalier tells her that, well, why didn't he come and see you?

00:37:12.290 -- - 00:37:15.990
[JOHN]:If I was your brother, I would have come to see you.

00:37:16.170 -- - 00:37:20.350
[JOHN]:I would have traveled the world to make sure I'd see you.

00:37:20.350 -- - 00:37:24.290
[JOHN]:So just seeds of doubt or whatever.

00:37:24.290 -- - 00:37:25.410
[JOHN]:Really interesting.

00:37:25.410 -- - 00:37:25.970
[DEREK]:Absolutely.

00:37:25.970 -- - 00:37:35.090
[DEREK]:And point out as well, remember Boy Kavalier right at the beginning of the episode, specifically tells Kirsch, always treat me like I know everything that you know.

00:37:35.090 -- - 00:37:35.350
[JOHN]:Yeah.

00:37:35.350 -- - 00:37:36.150
[DEREK]:Because he does.

00:37:36.150 -- - 00:37:41.390
[DEREK]:He has video cameras behind the eyes of every single character that's on board this station and on board this island.

00:37:41.390 -- - 00:37:48.050
[DEREK]:So that conversation between Joe and Wendy where Joe is telling her, well of course I would have tried to get there but they kept me away.

00:37:48.050 -- - 00:37:54.050
[DEREK]:Kavalier has clearly heard that conversation and wants to sow seeds of doubt specifically about that conversation with Wendy.

00:37:54.050 -- - 00:38:00.390
[DEREK]:So yeah, he is pointing out to her, I would have done everything because he wants to get back in with her again.

00:38:00.390 -- - 00:38:01.650
[JOHN]:Yeah.

00:38:01.650 -- - 00:38:08.650
[JOHN]:Then we find out that Joe is mad at them about what they've done to her.

00:38:08.650 -- - 00:38:12.550
[JOHN]:But also that there was a war as well globally.

00:38:12.550 -- - 00:38:13.750
[JOHN]:So that was kind of interesting.

00:38:14.310 -- - 00:38:14.530
[JOHN]:It was.

00:38:14.530 -- - 00:38:15.290
[JOHN]:It was left at there.

00:38:15.290 -- - 00:38:17.550
[JOHN]:It was kind of just that one-liner.

00:38:18.830 -- - 00:38:31.450
[JOHN]:I think the other aspect then here on this that I really like is, Joe is mad at them, but he kind of lets Atom Eins know about that.

00:38:31.450 -- - 00:38:37.690
[JOHN]:When Atom is giving him that pep talk that Boy Kavalier asked him to do.

00:38:38.830 -- - 00:39:17.790
[JOHN]:I just thought the brutality of Atom Eins laying out on such stark terms what it would mean if Hermit stays on in Neverland as an employee or if he doesn't and decides to resign as he threatens to do, which is not only will you receive a very large bill for your lung, which was done as a courtesy of the Prodigy Corporation, but not for free, and you will never see Wendy again.

00:39:17.790 -- - 00:39:32.570
[JOHN]:He then underlines the brutality of what he views as Wendy, which she is a multi-trillion product line or unit that is the future of this company.

00:39:33.730 -- - 00:39:43.530
[JOHN]:Atom is equally a bit like Arthur and Dame Sylvia, concerned that these aliens are becoming a distraction for Boy Kavalier.

00:39:44.570 -- - 00:39:52.530
[DEREK]:Yeah, because even that moment when Atom says to Boy Kavalier, do you want to just send them home to Yutani and move on from this?

00:39:52.530 -- - 00:39:57.930
[DEREK]:And Kavalier interestingly says, no, because then I'll wake up with a Xenomorph inside my body one morning.

00:39:58.490 -- - 00:39:59.550
[DEREK]:That's not going to happen.

00:39:59.550 -- - 00:40:09.010
[DEREK]:So he is treating it almost as if Yutani has brought these specimens from other planets down, specifically as weapons to use against him.

00:40:09.010 -- - 00:40:16.230
[DEREK]:Which is interesting when you think about the other conversations had about these five major corporations working together to rule the world.

00:40:16.230 -- - 00:40:20.170
[DEREK]:And he's thinking that maybe one of them is creating weapons to take him out.

00:40:20.170 -- - 00:40:31.910
[JOHN]:But it was even just a couple of episodes ago, I was questioning Morrow and maybe he purposefully crashed the ship into Prodigy territory.

00:40:32.050 -- - 00:40:38.130
[JOHN]:Now, it was also because he was working, he might actually be working for Prodigy.

00:40:38.130 -- - 00:40:47.530
[JOHN]:It was that angle that I was coming at it from, but equally that it was to disrupt Prodigy as well.

00:40:47.530 -- - 00:40:53.350
[JOHN]:And that might be why Yutani was trying to get him to just come back.

00:40:53.350 -- - 00:40:59.710
[JOHN]:Even though she's making these advances that, well, I want my property back and so on and so forth.

00:41:00.150 -- - 00:41:04.310
[JOHN]:So far, nothing has transpired from that.

00:41:04.510 -- - 00:41:09.690
[JOHN]:We have not got something where, you know, an incursion of Weyland Yutani troops or anything like that.

00:41:09.690 -- - 00:41:12.390
[JOHN]:So you never know.

00:41:12.390 -- - 00:41:33.750
[JOHN]:And just quickly, one of the other things that I did think myself, and then Atom Eins said it, and it was to do with Wendy speaking Xenomorph, was Atom kind of says, we should be asking the question why aliens can communicate with Wendy.

00:41:34.970 -- - 00:41:37.670
[JOHN]:I think he sees this as a huge issue.

00:41:37.670 -- - 00:41:38.950
[DEREK]:Absolutely.

00:41:38.950 -- - 00:41:43.150
[JOHN]:And actually, Wendy now is becoming more and more of a threat.

00:41:43.150 -- - 00:41:43.890
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:41:43.890 -- - 00:41:46.270
[JOHN]:Because why is she doing this?

00:41:46.270 -- - 00:41:51.190
[JOHN]:Like even, you know, he's there in the room when she is like saying, don't turn it off.

00:41:51.190 -- - 00:41:55.010
[JOHN]:So he's like, we should be asking ourselves, why is she having these thoughts?

00:41:55.210 -- - 00:41:57.190
[JOHN]:Why is she communicating with aliens?

00:41:57.190 -- - 00:42:06.750
[JOHN]:Why did an alien species come down from space and is also actively communicating with Wendy?

00:42:06.750 -- - 00:42:07.130
[DEREK]:Absolutely.

00:42:07.130 -- - 00:42:10.910
[DEREK]:And Boy Kavalier tries to play it off going, well, maybe she can just hear them talking to each other.

00:42:10.910 -- - 00:42:15.710
[DEREK]:And then Atom Eins is going, yeah, but now they know she can hear them talking to each other.

00:42:15.710 -- - 00:42:17.810
[DEREK]:So it's that's just as dangerous.

00:42:17.810 -- - 00:42:19.730
[DEREK]:That doesn't matter whether they're communicating with her or not.

00:42:19.730 -- - 00:42:23.250
[DEREK]:But she's now speaking in their language out loud and they can hear her.

00:42:23.410 -- - 00:42:25.610
[DEREK]:So they know that she's able to.

00:42:25.610 -- - 00:42:29.090
[DEREK]:So yes, scary stuff from Atom Eins.

00:42:29.090 -- - 00:42:39.590
[DEREK]:But yeah, that conversation overall, the actual discussion that he has with Joe, where he's taking the words that Joe is saying and almost twisting them back at him.

00:42:39.590 -- - 00:42:44.430
[DEREK]:Joe's talking about his sister Marcy and that she shouldn't be treated like this.

00:42:44.430 -- - 00:42:48.530
[DEREK]:She's just a kid and Atom Eins is going, no, no, that's the unit.

00:42:48.530 -- - 00:42:50.130
[DEREK]:Do you think it's your sister?

00:42:50.130 -- - 00:42:51.310
[DEREK]:That's very interesting to me.

00:42:51.870 -- - 00:42:53.030
[DEREK]:Maybe we can learn from that.

00:42:53.030 -- - 00:43:01.150
[DEREK]:It would be great to learn from someone that knew her beforehand to someone that knows the unit now as to how effectively how good our design is.

00:43:01.150 -- - 00:43:12.290
[DEREK]:Have we done this so well that you can't tell the difference as a family member between your kid sister and this this piece of technology that has her memories and her responses?

00:43:12.290 -- - 00:43:19.970
[JOHN]:Well, yeah, he's kind of like, well, they're two different questions, you know, one being a practical, as he says, one being existential.

00:43:21.010 -- - 00:43:39.030
[JOHN]:And also, you know, as I say, it's the starkness within which he speaks to Joe, and I would say corporate speak, but legal corporate speak, you know, he's kind of like, let me be clear, the unit you call Marcy is the property of Prodigy Corporation.

00:43:39.030 -- - 00:43:41.490
[DEREK]:You will never take her home, yes.

00:43:41.490 -- - 00:43:45.850
[JOHN]:There is no universe where you get to take her home.

00:43:47.450 -- - 00:43:55.290
[JOHN]:Like, he's channeling Marvel Multiverse here, you know, it's no matter what you think in your head.

00:43:55.290 -- - 00:43:59.770
[DEREK]:In a universe of infinite possibilities, that isn't one basically, is what he's just said to him.

00:43:59.770 -- - 00:44:04.350
[DEREK]:Yeah, even there are universes where there's blankets with arms.

00:44:04.350 -- - 00:44:05.410
[JOHN]:Yeah.

00:44:05.410 -- - 00:44:09.110
[JOHN]:So I really like this interaction actually, for sure.

00:44:09.110 -- - 00:44:09.390
[DEREK]:Definitely.

00:44:10.110 -- - 00:44:10.690
[DEREK]:It's great, isn't it?

00:44:10.690 -- - 00:44:19.010
[DEREK]:Like we mentioned before, you know, that Ajayi Edmondson is a comedic actor that we've known for decades, you know, and didn't really know why he was in the background of so many episodes.

00:44:19.010 -- - 00:44:28.870
[DEREK]:This is a great scene and he plays the moment so well with Joe here, explaining the situation that he finds himself in effectively.

00:44:28.870 -- - 00:44:36.110
[DEREK]:And it is now you work for us, you do what we're asking you to do, or you go home, you never see you again.

00:44:36.110 -- - 00:44:38.550
[DEREK]:And you've got a massive bill waiting for you at home.

00:44:38.550 -- - 00:44:41.510
[DEREK]:Joe wasn't in the greatest of circumstances at the beginning of this season.

00:44:41.650 -- - 00:44:42.170
[DEREK]:We saw him.

00:44:42.170 -- - 00:44:51.490
[DEREK]:He was in shared accommodation, living in a shared room with another family by the looks of things, and unable to get out of his commitment to the army.

00:44:51.490 -- - 00:44:56.430
[DEREK]:So I don't think he'd be able to take on this death that he'll be saddled with.

00:44:56.430 -- - 00:45:01.130
[DEREK]:And he still hasn't found out what they've actually done with his loan that they've removed.

00:45:01.130 -- - 00:45:01.750
[JOHN]:Well, that's true.

00:45:01.930 -- - 00:45:06.730
[JOHN]:I'm guessing he's not allowed onto the laboratory level.

00:45:06.730 -- - 00:45:08.670
[JOHN]:It would be very silly.

00:45:08.670 -- - 00:45:12.290
[DEREK]:Maybe not, maybe not, but they seem to have given him a little bit of freedom.

00:45:13.790 -- - 00:45:18.470
[DEREK]:And have also pointed out to them all the other knowledge that he has that's supposed to be pretty secure.

00:45:18.470 -- - 00:45:26.270
[DEREK]:You know, the idea that his entire unit are here, or what's left of them are here at Neverland as well.

00:45:26.270 -- - 00:45:28.590
[DEREK]:That's very confidential information to have.

00:45:28.590 -- - 00:45:31.470
[DEREK]:The idea that there are hybrids at all is very confidential.

00:45:31.470 -- - 00:45:39.630
[DEREK]:And the idea that there are these five specimens that came down from space, landed in the towers, and then were taken by prodigy back to Neverland.

00:45:39.890 -- - 00:45:42.610
[DEREK]:All very confidential information that Hermit has.

00:45:42.610 -- - 00:45:51.510
[DEREK]:So I think even though Atom Eins is suggesting that he could walk away with just a mass of death, I don't think he's going to be walking away from this.

00:45:51.510 -- - 00:45:54.030
[DEREK]:And there really was any choice for Hermit at all.

00:45:54.030 -- - 00:45:56.270
[JOHN]:I don't think so at all.

00:45:56.270 -- - 00:46:11.990
[JOHN]:But I think we should move on to another little horror fest, which is the sheep test with Octi Eyeball, our favourite little octopus and eyeball sort of smashed together.

00:46:11.990 -- - 00:46:13.490
[DEREK]:It's so bloody creepy.

00:46:13.490 -- - 00:46:14.110
[DEREK]:Apparently the cast-

00:46:14.110 -- - 00:46:15.250
[DEREK]:I love this.

00:46:15.250 -- - 00:46:18.850
[DEREK]:The cast and the people behind the show call this the eye-midge.

00:46:18.850 -- - 00:46:21.690
[DEREK]:I don't really like, like an image, but eye-midge.

00:46:21.690 -- - 00:46:23.750
[JOHN]:Yeah, I guess so.

00:46:23.750 -- - 00:46:26.390
[JOHN]:I prefer Octi Eyeball, to be honest.

00:46:26.810 -- - 00:46:31.570
[DEREK]:I was going for Octopupil, like as an octopus, Octopupil, which I kind of like.

00:46:31.570 -- - 00:46:34.430
[JOHN]:But it kind of looks like an eyeball on top of squid legs.

00:46:34.510 -- - 00:46:35.170
[DEREK]:Yes, exactly.

00:46:35.170 -- - 00:46:44.050
[JOHN]:And so, yes, I mean, it is just actually my favourite new alien species ever here.

00:46:44.050 -- - 00:46:53.190
[DEREK]:And can you imagine if you have a sci-fi movie coming out in a couple of months time, it's got a different name on it or in a couple of years time, it's got a different name on it.

00:46:53.190 -- - 00:46:59.570
[DEREK]:And this is the creature that terrorises an entire ship of, of, of travellers in space.

00:46:59.570 -- - 00:47:00.690
[DEREK]:It absolutely could happen.

00:47:00.690 -- - 00:47:01.890
[DEREK]:They've created, they've done it now.

00:47:01.890 -- - 00:47:02.770
[JOHN]:Absolutely.

00:47:02.770 -- - 00:47:06.150
[JOHN]:Like it's, it's really, really good.

00:47:06.150 -- - 00:47:08.690
[JOHN]:It's technically a biological USB.

00:47:08.690 -- - 00:47:13.470
[JOHN]:It kind of connects into the optic nerve straight into the brain.

00:47:13.470 -- - 00:47:15.010
[JOHN]:And I'm there going it downloads.

00:47:15.010 -- - 00:47:18.450
[JOHN]:And it's just the way it was portrayed here.

00:47:18.490 -- - 00:47:22.830
[JOHN]:Well, Kirsch is looking at it and he says, this creature is highly intelligent.

00:47:22.830 -- - 00:47:33.630
[JOHN]:Like he's getting the sort of fragments of sheep memory in this case, or cat memory.

00:47:33.630 -- - 00:47:44.650
[JOHN]:Just, it helps to further inform or involve this octi eyeball in the way it needs to.

00:47:44.650 -- - 00:47:51.130
[JOHN]:And it's just the way it stood the, you know, reanimates the sheep onto its legs.

00:47:51.130 -- - 00:47:57.130
[DEREK]:Yes, onto its back legs because it doesn't really understand that sheep have to walk around with four legs.

00:47:57.130 -- - 00:47:59.050
[DEREK]:It's doing what it thinks it should be doing.

00:47:59.050 -- - 00:48:00.430
[DEREK]:It's just this really creepy moment.

00:48:00.430 -- - 00:48:12.090
[DEREK]:And just quickly to mention, because we're going to talk about, well, the now named Isaac or Tootles, who's the right hand scientific man of Kirsch.

00:48:12.090 -- - 00:48:14.210
[DEREK]:I love the Kirsch going, oh, he's highly intelligent.

00:48:14.490 -- - 00:48:22.890
[DEREK]:And you just hear from Tootles going, yes, the wavy lines have gotten much bigger, because he doesn't really know what the scientific terms are.

00:48:22.890 -- - 00:48:27.530
[DEREK]:Kirsch explains what the actual science is, but he goes, the wavy lines have gotten much bigger.

00:48:27.530 -- - 00:48:30.610
[JOHN]:They're different or totally different now.

00:48:30.610 -- - 00:48:40.050
[JOHN]:It's kind of actually in a very similar sort of reason for me to the New Zealand movie called Black Sheep, where it was like zombie sheep.

00:48:40.050 -- - 00:48:47.070
[JOHN]:But it was just the fact that it stood there on two legs, then on four legs, just stood there watching.

00:48:47.070 -- - 00:48:49.950
[JOHN]:It's just watching intently.

00:48:49.950 -- - 00:48:57.450
[JOHN]:Expressionist, because it's a dead sheep, ultimately being controlled by an eyeball type creature.

00:48:57.490 -- - 00:49:10.830
[JOHN]:It's just watching and you have a lot of Kirsch is moving around and you see it kind of that fractal sense and as it does, you know, just the point of view of the eyeball creature.

00:49:10.830 -- - 00:49:30.150
[JOHN]:But I also then again, just to the point that we've been discussing about Boy Kavalier, it's like Boy Kavalier almost is like getting jealous for the attention of this species being on a synth, not on the all-powerful head of Prodigy Corp.

00:49:30.150 -- - 00:49:36.870
[JOHN]:And so throws the ball, his kind of bouncing ball at the glass to get its attention.

00:49:36.870 -- - 00:49:40.310
[JOHN]:And he just goes me and points at himself.

00:49:40.310 -- - 00:49:42.190
[JOHN]:You should be looking at me.

00:49:42.190 -- - 00:49:44.730
[JOHN]:This is who you need to look at, not Kirsh.

00:49:44.850 -- - 00:49:49.090
[JOHN]:And it's so egotistical beyond belief.

00:49:49.090 -- - 00:49:58.970
[JOHN]:I'd be quite happy if an old crazy, crazy sheep wasn't looking at me because I was like, well, he's not spotted me.

00:49:58.970 -- - 00:50:04.770
[DEREK]:Well, and because Kirsh is inorganic and a synthetic, so keep the focus on him.

00:50:04.770 -- - 00:50:11.670
[DEREK]:You just highlighted the fact that big brain me over here, big tasty brain me over here, the organic wants your attention.

00:50:11.670 -- - 00:50:13.930
[DEREK]:I think you might be getting the attention at some point.

00:50:13.970 -- - 00:50:16.870
[JOHN]:Well, I do hope so, I do hope so.

00:50:16.870 -- - 00:50:41.290
[JOHN]:I would, it's kind of a bit like when Matt Perry in The Simpsons gets fired out of the cannon and goes through like the the glue factory, the feather factory and then into the explosives factory and I kind of want Boy Kavalier to be like somehow fly through all these aliens and be dealt the worst they can offer.

00:50:42.230 -- - 00:50:45.710
[JOHN]:And while still possibly being slightly conscious somewhere in it.

00:50:45.710 -- - 00:50:46.350
[DEREK]:Right, right.

00:50:46.350 -- - 00:50:47.830
[DEREK]:So just dropped in the center.

00:50:47.830 -- - 00:50:48.870
[DEREK]:Sideshow Luke Perry.

00:50:49.110 -- - 00:50:50.250
[JOHN]:Yeah, Sideshow Luke Perry.

00:50:50.250 -- - 00:50:51.690
[DEREK]:Matt Perry was in The Friends.

00:50:51.690 -- - 00:50:53.470
[DEREK]:So Sideshow Luke Perry all those years ago.

00:50:53.470 -- - 00:50:55.650
[JOHN]:Luke Perry, yeah, yeah.

00:50:55.650 -- - 00:50:56.230
[DEREK]:Something like that.

00:50:56.230 -- - 00:51:00.390
[DEREK]:Yeah, I kind of forget the feeling like he's going to fall into a darkened room.

00:51:00.390 -- - 00:51:11.270
[DEREK]:The lights are going to come up and all five of the creatures who were previously fighting against each other are going to turn on him and take out each individual limb and leave the last for the Xenomorph.

00:51:11.270 -- - 00:51:11.910
[DEREK]:Something like that.

00:51:11.910 -- - 00:51:12.570
[JOHN]:Something like that.

00:51:12.570 -- - 00:51:15.730
[DEREK]:Or for the eyeball creature because it's now attracted attention.

00:51:15.730 -- - 00:51:24.390
[DEREK]:I just wonder if this creature is going to become, is going to learn more and more from each creature it possesses effectively.

00:51:24.390 -- - 00:51:32.590
[DEREK]:So by the time that it gets to get into a human species, will it be able to make the human species talk?

00:51:33.850 -- - 00:51:37.450
[DEREK]:It will take over the body, make it stand and then make it talk.

00:51:37.670 -- - 00:51:40.130
[DEREK]:I wonder if that's going to be how creepy this will get.

00:51:40.130 -- - 00:51:43.290
[DEREK]:You'll suddenly see someone that we've been watching all season.

00:51:43.290 -- - 00:51:44.930
[JOHN]:But like Boy Kavalier.

00:51:44.930 -- - 00:51:46.050
[DEREK]:Yeah.

00:51:46.050 -- - 00:51:50.030
[DEREK]:And then it will turn around and the eye will be pulsating like, you know.

00:51:50.030 -- - 00:51:56.230
[JOHN]:I mean to begin with, at least it will be able to meow and then bleat.

00:51:56.230 -- - 00:51:59.610
[DEREK]:Although we haven't seen either of those two creatures make any noises.

00:51:59.650 -- - 00:52:00.690
[JOHN]:No, exactly.

00:52:00.970 -- - 00:52:11.490
[DEREK]:There was a little moment because I guess, because we've seen the Xenomorph process from from Facehugger to Chestburster to Xeno to Big Xeno.

00:52:11.490 -- - 00:52:13.230
[DEREK]:Chestburster to Xenomorph, that's it.

00:52:13.230 -- - 00:52:14.830
[DEREK]:Because we've seen that process.

00:52:14.830 -- - 00:52:26.650
[DEREK]:There was a moment when it attached itself to the sheep and it extricated the eye and the eye dropped to the floor that I was expecting that the eyeball had maybe been impregnated by the creature and was going to become another one of them.

00:52:26.650 -- - 00:52:28.290
[JOHN]:Well, that is the interesting thing.

00:52:28.430 -- - 00:52:50.150
[JOHN]:I would like to see if we're going to get life cycles or life stages of some of these aliens because I think in one of the interviews that we saw of the showrunner, Noah Hawley, he did kind of say that it kind of intimated at least that you would see kind of some of the life stages.

00:52:50.150 -- - 00:52:52.790
[JOHN]:And that's why, okay, we've seen Octi eyeball here.

00:52:53.470 -- - 00:53:01.130
[JOHN]:And yeah, is the sheep eyeball going to suddenly become another Octi eyeball?

00:53:01.130 -- - 00:53:07.970
[JOHN]:Equally, we've still got sort of blood sucking insect type things.

00:53:07.970 -- - 00:53:10.270
[JOHN]:Like what's going to happen there?

00:53:10.270 -- - 00:53:11.550
[JOHN]:And there's the pod thing.

00:53:11.550 -- - 00:53:19.390
[JOHN]:And it would be good to see some of the life stages of this because I reckon with the right imagination, they could be horrific for sure.

00:53:20.090 -- - 00:53:32.410
[JOHN]:The other thing I think on the sheep test was I was just there going, how are they going to get it back into the little container that they have it held in?

00:53:32.410 -- - 00:53:35.670
[JOHN]:Because effectively, it's now in a sheep.

00:53:35.670 -- - 00:53:38.050
[JOHN]:It's not like you can just put your...

00:53:39.330 -- - 00:53:40.950
[JOHN]:Okay, they've got synths, I get it.

00:53:40.950 -- - 00:53:46.270
[JOHN]:But ultimately, it came out of a quite secure canister.

00:53:46.270 -- - 00:53:48.590
Yeah.

00:53:48.590 -- - 00:53:50.230
[JOHN]:And they need to get it back in.

00:53:50.230 -- - 00:53:56.230
[DEREK]:Yeah, if I was the scientist, I'd be watching to see how long it can keep the sheep alive, though.

00:53:56.230 -- - 00:53:56.930
[JOHN]:Oh, absolutely.

00:53:57.570 -- - 00:53:58.890
[DEREK]:So let's not take it out for a while.

00:53:58.890 -- - 00:54:01.570
[DEREK]:Let's just see how this experiment goes.

00:54:01.570 -- - 00:54:03.550
[DEREK]:But they're leaving it in the massive glass case.

00:54:04.050 -- - 00:54:05.430
[DEREK]:So I don't know again.

00:54:05.430 -- - 00:54:08.050
[DEREK]:I don't know why Kavalier threw a ball at the side of it.

00:54:08.070 -- - 00:54:09.230
[JOHN]:What if it cracked?

00:54:09.230 -- - 00:54:10.350
[JOHN]:No, it won't be.

00:54:10.350 -- - 00:54:11.190
[DEREK]:What if it cracked?

00:54:11.190 -- - 00:54:12.730
[JOHN]:It shouldn't.

00:54:12.730 -- - 00:54:15.130
[DEREK]:I know it's Kevlar rather than glass, probably.

00:54:15.130 -- - 00:54:27.250
[JOHN]:Well, if it's a proper sort of biosafety lab, and certainly 65, 70, 100 years from now, yes, it should be very secure.

00:54:27.250 -- - 00:54:29.110
[DEREK]:Yeah, but it wasn't built to contain this.

00:54:29.110 -- - 00:54:31.470
[DEREK]:This is brand new species from other worlds, John.

00:54:31.630 -- - 00:54:34.390
[DEREK]:So maybe it will find its own way out at the moment.

00:54:34.390 -- - 00:54:35.510
[DEREK]:At the moment.

00:54:35.510 -- - 00:54:37.230
[DEREK]:Maybe it'll find its way out.

00:54:39.930 -- - 00:54:42.830
[JOHN]:Well, all we need is a border collie to the rescue.

00:54:42.830 -- - 00:54:44.690
[JOHN]:Can we be able to round it up?

00:54:44.690 -- - 00:54:46.630
[DEREK]:The sheep, of course, yes.

00:54:46.630 -- - 00:54:50.810
[DEREK]:Sorry, I was kind of still thinking of how this eyeball is going to get itself out.

00:54:50.810 -- - 00:54:52.530
[DEREK]:It doesn't need to take the sheep with it, remember?

00:54:52.530 -- - 00:54:54.850
[DEREK]:So it may find its own way out.

00:54:54.850 -- - 00:54:59.850
[DEREK]:And, you know, if there's one thing that we've learned from all alien movies, they eventually find their way out somehow.

00:54:59.850 -- - 00:55:00.410
[JOHN]:Indeed.

00:55:00.510 -- - 00:55:02.670
[DEREK]:Yeah, someone might just be opening the door for us.

00:55:02.670 -- - 00:55:03.210
[JOHN]:Indeed.

00:55:03.350 -- - 00:55:13.810
[JOHN]:I think we could also move on to another person or specimen with a strange creepy stir, and that's Nibs.

00:55:13.830 -- - 00:55:15.070
[JOHN]:Yes.

00:55:15.070 -- - 00:55:21.470
[JOHN]:Very scary, very PTSD in a sense.

00:55:21.490 -- - 00:55:25.090
[DEREK]:Well, very much connected to what happened with the iMaze last time.

00:55:25.090 -- - 00:55:27.410
[JOHN]:Exactly.

00:55:27.410 -- - 00:55:28.850
[JOHN]:Really interesting.

00:55:30.790 -- - 00:55:35.970
[JOHN]:Just the fact that firstly, she's very insistent that she's pregnant.

00:55:36.010 -- - 00:55:38.530
[JOHN]:I mean, very, very insistent.

00:55:39.630 -- - 00:55:54.510
[JOHN]:And does not want to talk about the scientific elements and read the book that Dame Sylvia is trying to show her.

00:55:54.510 -- - 00:56:03.530
[JOHN]:I do like that Dame says, I've realized now that we didn't talk about the new bodies that you children have for this transition.

00:56:03.530 -- - 00:56:09.150
[JOHN]:It was more all about the memories and the mind and that kind of element of it.

00:56:09.150 -- - 00:56:22.230
[DEREK]:And you get the suggestion that this was a very quick, from the transition that we saw in the first episode, where we saw them all being moved into their new bodies around in that one shot, awesome one shot around the table.

00:56:22.230 -- - 00:56:32.170
[DEREK]:You get the feeling that this was quite quick from the point of them having the body and the mind transferred to the body, and then them all sitting in the room together, the crash happened and then they were all sent out into the field.

00:56:32.550 -- - 00:56:40.090
[DEREK]:That there wasn't much more than a few weeks between that happening and them being out in the field.

00:56:40.090 -- - 00:56:46.670
[DEREK]:Nibs is the one that we've, as we've said before, is having the most problems anyway with being in this situation.

00:56:46.670 -- - 00:56:50.110
[DEREK]:She's the one that wanted to go home immediately after the procedure, thought that was the deal.

00:56:50.110 -- - 00:56:55.450
[DEREK]:She was going to be able to live on in a new body and then go back to her family and was told no immediately.

00:56:55.450 -- - 00:57:01.730
[DEREK]:She's the one that was pressing against her eyeball, trying to explore what this body was last week.

00:57:03.130 -- - 00:57:10.310
[DEREK]:Here she is saying that she's pregnant and not listening to any reasoning behind where she could be.

00:57:10.310 -- - 00:57:13.730
[DEREK]:Arthur instantly questions going, hang on a second, that can't be possible.

00:57:13.730 -- - 00:57:14.390
[DEREK]:You're a machine.

00:57:14.390 -- - 00:57:18.470
[DEREK]:Then she freaks out going, don't ever call me that.

00:57:18.470 -- - 00:57:21.290
[DEREK]:And Dame takes another attack and tries to calm her down.

00:57:22.970 -- - 00:57:29.870
[DEREK]:And then she tries to use the example of Jesus being born of a product of people not having sex.

00:57:29.870 -- - 00:57:33.650
[DEREK]:So therefore her child could be exactly the same.

00:57:33.650 -- - 00:57:37.750
[DEREK]:Now there is something in the fact that this is a very experimental technology.

00:57:37.750 -- - 00:57:43.450
[DEREK]:So something may have happened inside this body that's making her think something has happened.

00:57:43.450 -- - 00:57:47.750
[DEREK]:Is it the attack of that eyeball creature that something was left behind by it?

00:57:47.830 -- - 00:57:49.650
[DEREK]:And has it reeled its way inside her body?

00:57:49.650 -- - 00:57:49.950
[JOHN]:Exactly.

00:57:50.150 -- - 00:57:51.290
[JOHN]:You don't know, do you?

00:57:51.290 -- - 00:57:56.150
[JOHN]:And it's the thing that will be really interesting to see happen again.

00:57:56.150 -- - 00:58:12.750
[JOHN]:From that idea of seeing the life stages of an eyeball, if it was to show its kind of gestation and birth and that it can deal with synthetic materials, you know, you have this notion that certain funguses that can sort of decompose plastic.

00:58:13.430 -- - 00:58:19.830
[JOHN]:So you just wonder what the situation is here, but it is, it's really creepy.

00:58:19.830 -- - 00:58:36.450
[JOHN]:And I do like you get the flashback to the crash site when sort of Dame Sylvia sort of tries to move it on from the fact that she's saying no, you know, or being trying to be shown the technical sort of diagram of her.

00:58:37.030 -- - 00:58:54.510
[JOHN]:And, you know, it's almost like Nibs, she knows, even though she's saying no, and she's still persisting with, it's a girl, I think, you know, when you have Dame Sylvia then trying to move it on to the crash site, that seems to work her up even more, she says, stop talking about it and jumps over the table.

00:58:54.510 -- - 00:59:05.070
[JOHN]:And then Dame Sylvia, you know, defaults to a calming cuppa in order to sort of defuse the situation, which I really, really like.

00:59:10.050 -- - 00:59:11.510
[DEREK]:I was thinking of having a cup of tea.

00:59:11.510 -- - 00:59:14.230
[DEREK]:Let me go over there and push the security button to get the security.

00:59:15.270 -- - 00:59:19.070
[JOHN]:And once you're out of the room, I'm going to absolutely raid the drinks.

00:59:19.090 -- - 00:59:21.530
[DEREK]:Absolutely, absolutely.

00:59:22.210 -- - 00:59:28.030
[DEREK]:It is terrifying, you know, there is just this thing that's behind it all.

00:59:28.030 -- - 00:59:39.510
[DEREK]:Yeah, so there's the conversation that Atom Eins and Joe had and Boy Kavalier have had, you know, about whether they are human or whether they are synthetics, right?

00:59:39.510 -- - 00:59:40.730
[DEREK]:Or whether they are machines, right?

00:59:40.730 -- - 00:59:46.350
[DEREK]:And there's even that conversation with Morrow when Morrow was asking slightly, when is a machine not a machine?

00:59:46.350 -- - 00:59:51.030
[DEREK]:You know, all of these elements, all of these things, all of this conversation that's going on.

00:59:51.030 -- - 00:59:58.030
[DEREK]:But the other part of that conversation that nobody's really talking about is they are children inside very powerful bodies.

00:59:58.030 -- - 00:59:58.550
[JOHN]:Absolutely.

00:59:58.550 -- - 01:00:01.190
[DEREK]:And sometimes children fly off the handle.

01:00:01.250 -- - 01:00:02.790
[DEREK]:Have you ever seen the tantrum of a two-year-old?

01:00:02.790 -- - 01:00:08.490
[DEREK]:Can you imagine the two-year-old in the body of a very powerful creature?

01:00:08.490 -- - 01:00:12.970
[JOHN]:This is what hit home here to me with the Nibs storyline.

01:00:12.970 -- - 01:00:22.410
[JOHN]:But I think equally it's there with Slightly is that you still have, despite them being able to download French so that they can speak it.

01:00:22.410 -- - 01:00:28.430
[JOHN]:And we hear with Tootles saying he's taking down scientific stuff so he can help with Kirsh.

01:00:28.750 -- - 01:00:38.850
[JOHN]:Despite all that, they still all have these kind of emotive responses that can be quite black and white, knee-jerk.

01:00:38.850 -- - 01:00:41.590
[JOHN]:In a sense, almost like verbal thrashing about.

01:00:41.590 -- - 01:00:49.110
[JOHN]:But if they do then actually thrash about in a tantrum, I guess would be the classic thing with kids.

01:00:49.170 -- - 01:00:55.910
[JOHN]:If they throw a tantrum, I'd say they're in a really powerful body and they can do severe harm.

01:00:55.910 -- - 01:01:12.990
[JOHN]:Because despite all of this, at each moment, and I think this is the great thing about the kids, and I think it comes up really nicely when they're all together with Joe in the garden when Slightly arrives, is that they all have this real childish moment.

01:01:12.990 -- - 01:01:22.130
[JOHN]:I mean, even Nibs, they're talking about pregnancy, but clutching on to the stuffed toy and wanting to take it with her, like a kid.

01:01:22.130 -- - 01:01:33.350
[JOHN]:You have Tootles, who is kind of like, well, I want a new name, you know, and he, like, well, these wavy lines.

01:01:33.530 -- - 01:01:41.490
[JOHN]:It's all kind of, they're in an adult world, but they still are children.

01:01:41.530 -- - 01:01:42.870
[JOHN]:Yeah.

01:01:42.870 -- - 01:01:47.810
[DEREK]:And Tootles specifically is calling out the fact, well, you wouldn't have a scientist called Tootles, and I want to be respected.

01:01:47.810 -- - 01:01:52.350
[DEREK]:I want to be thought of as an adult, because I'm in an adult body now, so I must choose a name.

01:01:52.350 -- - 01:01:55.030
[DEREK]:And he chooses Isaac from Isaac Newton.

01:01:55.030 -- - 01:02:00.410
[DEREK]:And I kind of love the throwaway look that Kirsh does.

01:02:00.410 -- - 01:02:02.950
[DEREK]:Honestly, Timothy Olyphant is just so great with his looks.

01:02:02.950 -- - 01:02:09.930
[DEREK]:But when he goes, I've chosen the name Isaac, and you just can see the eyes of Kirsh rolling to heaven because of Isaac Newton.

01:02:09.930 -- - 01:02:11.130
[DEREK]:Yeah, of course it's from Isaac Newton.

01:02:11.210 -- - 01:02:12.490
[DEREK]:Yes, of course he would have chosen that name.

01:02:12.490 -- - 01:02:13.490
[JOHN]:The old guy.

01:02:13.730 -- - 01:02:17.250
[DEREK]:It's like the old scientist, you know, I just learned about yesterday.

01:02:17.250 -- - 01:02:23.490
[JOHN]:But it is that notion of kids growing up too quickly as well that has been sort of put forward here.

01:02:23.550 -- - 01:02:25.750
[JOHN]:So it's just really, really good.

01:02:25.750 -- - 01:02:36.070
[JOHN]:I think that eeriness, dodginess, creepiness, tense threat really comes across here with Nibs.

01:02:37.350 -- - 01:02:41.430
[DEREK]:It's a great moment for this character.

01:02:41.430 -- - 01:02:43.990
[DEREK]:Just so well played by Lily Newmark here.

01:02:44.390 -- - 01:02:51.330
[DEREK]:We've had moments to compliment each member of the cast who plays these hybrids so far.

01:02:51.330 -- - 01:03:04.770
[DEREK]:And these scenes with her, you can tell how much trauma she's gone through in that experience with the eye monster earlier on in the season.

01:03:05.510 -- - 01:03:08.290
[DEREK]:And how much it's affected her by this performance.

01:03:08.290 -- - 01:03:09.530
[DEREK]:It's just fantastic.

01:03:10.450 -- - 01:03:16.590
[DEREK]:It makes her even more terrifying and makes what she's going through even more sad.

01:03:16.590 -- - 01:03:21.890
[DEREK]:This is a 10 year old kid who will never ever be able to have a child at all.

01:03:21.890 -- - 01:03:29.750
[DEREK]:And they think she is pregnant after having this massively traumatic experience being attacked by this creature from outer space.

01:03:29.750 -- - 01:03:31.930
[JOHN]:But it's also about the disconnect as well.

01:03:32.370 -- - 01:03:35.350
[JOHN]:Like she wants to be human still.

01:03:35.350 -- - 01:03:42.530
[JOHN]:Those memories are still very much to the fore, yet the disconnect is that she's also not.

01:03:42.530 -- - 01:03:43.430
[DEREK]:Exactly.

01:03:43.430 -- - 01:03:51.630
[JOHN]:It's the disconnect of slightly, calling himself Slightly, but he does know and remember his own name.

01:03:51.630 -- - 01:03:53.770
[JOHN]:Yep.

01:03:53.770 -- - 01:03:55.570
[JOHN]:And his family.

01:03:55.990 -- - 01:03:58.910
[JOHN]:So these are all disconnected.

01:03:58.910 -- - 01:04:09.270
[JOHN]:I mean, even with Shmee, where he's like, oh, you can do that after hearing that Tootles is downloading all the science learning so that you can help Kirsh.

01:04:09.270 -- - 01:04:11.450
[JOHN]:He's like, oh, you can do that.

01:04:11.450 -- - 01:04:15.690
[DEREK]:I'm absolutely waiting for the Matrix moment of now I know Kung Fu.

01:04:16.690 -- - 01:04:19.870
[DEREK]:Where Neo downloaded the Kung Fu program into his brain.

01:04:19.870 -- - 01:04:22.790
[DEREK]:I'm waiting for that moment for a Smee to download Kung Fu to his brain.

01:04:22.950 -- - 01:04:25.970
[JOHN]:So it's just all really, really good, I think.

01:04:25.970 -- - 01:04:31.330
[JOHN]:And I think talking of Slightly, we get this continued manipulation.

01:04:31.330 -- - 01:04:53.510
[JOHN]:And like I kind of wrote my notes, torment by Morrow, you know, just connecting in on the audio and then having these conversations with him where, you know, like the initial one being that Morrow is asking Slightly to get in one of the eggs and Slightly there again, as a kid is like, oh, you don't have eggs where you are?

01:04:53.510 -- - 01:04:55.930
[JOHN]:Oh, you mean the monster egg.

01:04:56.950 -- - 01:05:03.050
[JOHN]:And he has this conflict about stealing from, effectively the people who've saved him in Prodigy.

01:05:03.050 -- - 01:05:10.310
[JOHN]:And then Morrow's like twists it and starts bringing it into this realm of trust, you know.

01:05:10.310 -- - 01:05:13.310
[JOHN]:We first established we are friends.

01:05:13.310 -- - 01:05:18.310
[JOHN]:Now we're going to establish trust by giving and offering one another's names and so on.

01:05:18.430 -- - 01:05:39.530
[JOHN]:And in the end, Slightly is still of that age that then later on, even though that trust has been betrayed by Morrow, in that he's tracked down Slightly's mother and his brothers and is implying a threat to them if he doesn't get the eggs.

01:05:39.530 -- - 01:05:44.930
[DEREK]:Well, just a line that he actually says to him is, remember you said you would do anything to save your family.

01:05:44.930 -- - 01:05:46.210
[DEREK]:This is that moment.

01:05:47.010 -- - 01:05:48.170
[DEREK]:Are we clear?

01:05:48.170 -- - 01:05:50.970
[DEREK]:Like it's way more than just a threat.

01:05:50.970 -- - 01:05:55.150
[DEREK]:He is telling him if he doesn't come up with the egg, he's going to kill his family.

01:05:55.210 -- - 01:05:55.750
[DEREK]:He's right there.

01:05:55.750 -- - 01:05:57.190
[DEREK]:No, you're right.

01:05:57.190 -- - 01:06:02.550
[DEREK]:But this is the most terrifying situation, I think, in the show because it's horrible to watch.

01:06:02.550 -- - 01:06:04.350
[DEREK]:It's so awkward to watch.

01:06:04.350 -- - 01:06:19.470
[DEREK]:It's effectively those stories that you've heard about kids that play things like Fortnite and leave the conversation on or leave their chat open and an adult starts to groom them using adult words to young children.

01:06:19.470 -- - 01:06:23.490
[DEREK]:What's happening to Slightly here, he slightly tries to push back at him.

01:06:23.490 -- - 01:06:25.890
[DEREK]:He says to him, well, you're not even from Prodigy.

01:06:25.890 -- - 01:06:30.830
[DEREK]:He said you're from Prodigy and Morrow goes, but I didn't know whether you're one of the heroes or not.

01:06:30.830 -- - 01:06:32.810
[DEREK]:And Slightly says, well, I'm a hero.

01:06:32.810 -- - 01:06:35.310
[DEREK]:And he responds in kind saying, well, I'm a hero too.

01:06:35.310 -- - 01:06:41.250
[DEREK]:And the two of us as heroes need to help, need to work together to effectively win the game almost.

01:06:41.250 -- - 01:06:43.090
[DEREK]:So he's talking to him as this 10 year old.

01:06:43.130 -- - 01:06:48.470
[DEREK]:And you can see it and you don't want to watch it because it is, again, it's behind the headlines.

01:06:48.470 -- - 01:06:55.090
[DEREK]:It's the horrible stuff that you hear in the really awful stories about adults grooming children.

01:06:55.090 -- - 01:06:59.250
[DEREK]:And this is what's happening on screen here between Morrow and Slightly.

01:06:59.250 -- - 01:07:04.010
[DEREK]:Morrow is just manipulating this child in every single way.

01:07:04.010 -- - 01:07:17.810
[DEREK]:You know, and you can, again, as those stories in real life play out, where those adults turn up at a location and find the child that has been able, that has thought it's been anonymous online.

01:07:17.810 -- - 01:07:18.670
[DEREK]:This is what's happening.

01:07:18.750 -- - 01:07:24.130
[DEREK]:Morrow is turning up at the house of this child with his mom, manipulating his mom and finding his brothers as well.

01:07:24.130 -- - 01:07:25.990
[DEREK]:You know, and it's a massive threat.

01:07:25.990 -- - 01:07:43.870
[JOHN]:But I think as well, you know, Adarsh Gourav who plays Slightly is just absolutely knocking out the park in terms of showing that sort of denigration, the disintegration of the boundaries that he thought he knew, and just how it weighs on him.

01:07:43.870 -- - 01:07:49.150
[JOHN]:I mean, even I'm guessing with the makeup, you know, it's like the eyes look darker, like he's not been able to sleep.

01:07:49.150 -- - 01:07:51.950
[JOHN]:He's kind of, he's more snappy.

01:07:51.950 -- - 01:07:57.030
[JOHN]:He's, you know, he's doing things that he's not, he doesn't want to do.

01:07:57.030 -- - 01:07:58.530
[JOHN]:He knows it's wrong.

01:07:58.530 -- - 01:08:03.410
[JOHN]:But then, as we said, he's being groomed to sort of still do them.

01:08:03.410 -- - 01:08:08.710
[JOHN]:And like you see this kind of how it's altered him in terms of his behaviour.

01:08:09.970 -- - 01:08:17.310
[JOHN]:And it's just a really, really powerful kind of transformation in and of itself.

01:08:17.310 -- - 01:08:17.630
[DEREK]:It is.

01:08:17.630 -- - 01:08:25.670
[DEREK]:And he's like, you know, before we saw him as so playful with Smee as best friend and Morrow cut that conversation off completely.

01:08:25.670 -- - 01:08:28.110
[DEREK]:He said, don't tell anybody or you'll hurt me.

01:08:28.110 -- - 01:08:30.510
[DEREK]:And what have we talked about with hurting people?

01:08:30.510 -- - 01:08:31.310
[DEREK]:You can't do that.

01:08:31.310 -- - 01:08:32.030
[DEREK]:That would be bad.

01:08:32.030 -- - 01:08:36.290
[DEREK]:You know, so he's making him retreat into himself.

01:08:36.290 -- - 01:08:40.410
[DEREK]:You know, even Tootles was saying to him, look, you're not yourself at the moment.

01:08:40.410 -- - 01:08:42.290
[DEREK]:Let's go off and play some games and then it'll come back to you.

01:08:42.290 -- - 01:08:49.130
[DEREK]:The thing you think you came to the to the lab for and Slightly says, no, no, I'm going to go walk away on my own.

01:08:49.130 -- - 01:08:52.870
[DEREK]:Again, he was one of the most social characters at the beginning of the series.

01:08:53.050 -- - 01:08:57.270
[DEREK]:The most fun characters, especially with with me.

01:08:57.270 -- - 01:09:06.810
[DEREK]:And here he is retiring into himself, you know, when he walks up on the scene where where Joe's with the rest of the hybrids, instantly he goes, we've all got brothers, too.

01:09:06.810 -- - 01:09:07.830
[DEREK]:We've all got family members.

01:09:07.910 -- - 01:09:08.830
[DEREK]:Why does he get to be here?

01:09:08.830 -- - 01:09:10.270
[JOHN]:Yeah, exactly.

01:09:10.410 -- - 01:09:27.210
[JOHN]:I think the other thing here is like we were talking about Kirsch being the voyeur, you know, Kirsch is tapping in to Morrow and Slightly's conversations, all the comms that Morrow has implanted in into Slightly's neck.

01:09:27.210 -- - 01:09:29.990
[JOHN]:So, you know, he knows what's happening here.

01:09:29.990 -- - 01:09:44.610
[JOHN]:He knows the plan as well, which is, you know, Morrow has said, well, if you can't get the eggs, if it's too much of an issue to get the eggs, get a human to go to the eggs and bring them out.

01:09:44.610 -- - 01:09:49.570
[JOHN]:Let them, hide them away for two days, and then you'll have something to bring back to me.

01:09:49.570 -- - 01:09:54.870
[DEREK]:Oh, it's just the fact that he describes the whole process that we've seen happen in Alien and Aliens.

01:09:54.870 -- - 01:10:03.430
[DEREK]:You know, he describes it to Slightly telling him, just make them stand over, then they'll be infected, then put them into hiding, but not for too long.

01:10:03.430 -- - 01:10:04.670
[DEREK]:Tell me as soon as it's happened.

01:10:05.070 -- - 01:10:11.190
[DEREK]:And then, when you take them out, they'll have a very bad day, but you will have done what I need you to do.

01:10:11.190 -- - 01:10:16.170
[DEREK]:You'll have made up for the imposition of what you've done effectively.

01:10:16.170 -- - 01:10:17.310
[DEREK]:Yeah, terrifying.

01:10:17.310 -- - 01:10:30.850
[DEREK]:And after that discussion as to why everybody else can't have their brothers there, that seems to make Slightly consider Joe as the gift he's going to give up to Morrow to save his family.

01:10:31.710 -- - 01:10:38.150
[DEREK]:We see him in the darkness watching into the room at Joe as Joe goes to sleep.

01:10:38.150 -- - 01:10:40.370
[DEREK]:And we know none of the hybrids need to sleep now.

01:10:40.370 -- - 01:10:42.430
[JOHN]:Yeah, exactly.

01:10:42.430 -- - 01:10:44.150
[DEREK]:So yeah, it's so creepy.

01:10:44.150 -- - 01:10:49.290
[JOHN]:Really, I just really have enjoyed this episode.

01:10:49.290 -- - 01:10:52.310
[JOHN]:I think it's very well observed.

01:10:52.310 -- - 01:10:53.570
[DEREK]:It really is.

01:10:53.610 -- - 01:10:54.930
[DEREK]:What is going on with Kirsch?

01:10:55.150 -- - 01:11:08.910
[DEREK]:At that moment when he confronts Slightly in his room, and he's saying to him about the three Speak No Evil, Hear No Evil, See No Evil monkeys on the wall, and he's telling him what those mean.

01:11:08.910 -- - 01:11:12.570
[DEREK]:Again, another person in Slightly's life manipulating him.

01:11:12.570 -- - 01:11:18.070
[DEREK]:Kirsch is saying to him, that means if I do something bad, will you report me effectively?

01:11:18.070 -- - 01:11:23.890
[DEREK]:So you're wondering what it is that Kirsch is going to do if he's listening in and hearing everything that's happening with Slightly.

01:11:23.890 -- - 01:11:27.410
[DEREK]:Is he saying he's going to go along with Morrow's plan?

01:11:27.410 -- - 01:11:28.990
[JOHN]:Yeah, I think it's a bit of that.

01:11:28.990 -- - 01:11:35.890
[JOHN]:I also think it's a bit of trying to figure out what Slightly is going to do.

01:11:35.890 -- - 01:11:43.170
[JOHN]:Because equally, Slightly could say, I'm getting voices from the person that was at the crash site.

01:11:43.170 -- - 01:11:46.970
[JOHN]:He could have just, in a sense, said it, you know?

01:11:47.330 -- - 01:11:51.890
[JOHN]:I guess that's the branching point, you know?

01:11:53.090 -- - 01:11:57.630
[JOHN]:Because, you know, he asks him the question, Slightly says, I'd stand up for my friends.

01:11:57.630 -- - 01:11:59.970
[JOHN]:And he said, we are friends now.

01:11:59.970 -- - 01:12:03.230
[JOHN]:So does he mean Morrow?

01:12:03.230 -- - 01:12:05.810
[JOHN]:Does he mean me?

01:12:05.810 -- - 01:12:13.010
[JOHN]:Does, you know, he knows that, does it mean the Prodigy Corporation?

01:12:13.010 -- - 01:12:13.730
[JOHN]:Do you know what?

01:12:13.730 -- - 01:12:43.770
[JOHN]:So I think Kirsch is just trying to figure out, I'm proud to see where Slightly stands on this, because then he knows how far he can go possibly himself, because he's clearly not reporting that one of the competitors has infiltrated Neverland through one of the hybrids, and actually understands what this new technology is.

01:12:43.770 -- - 01:12:44.450
[DEREK]:Yeah.

01:12:44.450 -- - 01:12:44.690
[DEREK]:Yeah.

01:12:44.850 -- - 01:12:47.770
[DEREK]:And the fact that Morrow has said, I'll get in there pretty easily.

01:12:47.770 -- - 01:12:49.870
[DEREK]:You don't have to worry about that as well.

01:12:49.870 -- - 01:12:57.170
[DEREK]:That's also something that Kirsch has heard on this island that's supposed to be impenetrable from the outside.

01:12:57.170 -- - 01:13:01.310
[DEREK]:He's heard Morrow say to him that I'll be there as soon as you call for me.

01:13:01.310 -- - 01:13:03.870
[DEREK]:So Morrow has obviously has some way in as well.

01:13:04.070 -- - 01:13:08.550
[DEREK]:So yeah, I wonder are Kirsch and Morrow somehow connected?

01:13:09.610 -- - 01:13:10.330
[JOHN]:Possibly.

01:13:10.330 -- - 01:13:16.870
[JOHN]:And that might be why it's deliberate that the spacecraft landed.

01:13:16.870 -- - 01:13:17.670
[DEREK]:Maybe, maybe.

01:13:17.670 -- - 01:13:18.570
[JOHN]:You never know.

01:13:18.570 -- - 01:13:22.070
[DEREK]:Yeah, we've got a couple more episodes to go before we find that out.

01:13:22.070 -- - 01:13:25.650
[DEREK]:Is there any other notes, any other things that you want to talk about on the episode itself?

01:13:25.710 -- - 01:13:28.130
[DEREK]:This has been a deep dive into the episode.

01:13:28.130 -- - 01:13:29.970
[JOHN]:Certainly has.

01:13:29.970 -- - 01:13:31.270
[JOHN]:Yeah, certainly has.

01:13:31.270 -- - 01:13:42.470
[JOHN]:As I say, just the one thing maybe only pulled out slightly was just the great interaction between the kids here, between the hybrids with Joe being there.

01:13:42.470 -- - 01:13:46.010
[JOHN]:You know, the tension was slightly, as you mentioned.

01:13:48.090 -- - 01:13:52.890
[JOHN]:And, you know, actually, Joe, in essence, agreeing with him.

01:13:52.890 -- - 01:13:54.750
[JOHN]:Yes, you should have your families here.

01:13:55.250 -- - 01:14:00.170
[JOHN]:And that, you know, he stands up to Wendy as well.

01:14:00.170 -- - 01:14:03.550
[JOHN]:He says, You're not the boss.

01:14:03.550 -- - 01:14:08.390
[JOHN]:But she comes back and says, No, but I'm the oldest, which is a real kid thing to say.

01:14:08.390 -- - 01:14:10.030
[JOHN]:No, I'm the oldest here.

01:14:10.030 -- - 01:14:10.290
[DEREK]:Yeah.

01:14:10.290 -- - 01:14:13.490
[JOHN]:You know, sort of the ranking by age.

01:14:13.490 -- - 01:14:19.550
[DEREK]:And it turns out she's wrong because both Tootles and Curly are both older than her, technically.

01:14:19.550 -- - 01:14:22.590
[DEREK]:She was just the first one that was put into a higher body.

01:14:22.590 -- - 01:14:24.310
[DEREK]:So Slightly gets that on her as well.

01:14:24.650 -- - 01:14:27.950
[DEREK]:So, yeah, it's a really interesting moment that she.

01:14:27.950 -- - 01:14:28.250
[JOHN]:Yeah.

01:14:28.550 -- - 01:14:34.410
[DEREK]:And that does explain why, again, Curly has that issue about being seen as second or third best.

01:14:34.410 -- - 01:14:34.570
[JOHN]:Agreed.

01:14:34.570 -- - 01:14:36.030
[DEREK]:Because she was the eldest coming in.

01:14:36.030 -- - 01:14:46.830
[JOHN]:And again, just great, great, I think, sort of physical and observational approach by Jonathan and Aya as SME.

01:14:46.830 -- - 01:14:47.690
[JOHN]:Mm hmm.

01:14:47.710 -- - 01:14:50.510
[JOHN]:And like he's so good.

01:14:50.510 -- - 01:14:59.670
[JOHN]:And that's the thing I'm thinking is he just the one that's always the kid and will forever be what Peter Pan wanted to be the child forever?

01:14:59.670 -- - 01:14:59.930
[JOHN]:Right.

01:14:59.930 -- - 01:15:02.530
[JOHN]:And because compared to the others, they're all evolving.

01:15:02.530 -- - 01:15:09.190
[JOHN]:He's still, as I say, he says to Tootle, he says to Tootles, oh, you can do that.

01:15:09.190 -- - 01:15:16.230
[JOHN]:You know, like he's still just enjoying himself and friends and that kind of thing.

01:15:16.290 -- - 01:15:22.790
[JOHN]:He's not thinking too much about the outside world, further ahead in, you know, whatever.

01:15:22.790 -- - 01:15:27.390
[JOHN]:He's just living his kind of truth a day at a time, you know?

01:15:27.390 -- - 01:15:32.250
[DEREK]:I'm telling you, just wait for his Kung Fu download.

01:15:32.250 -- - 01:15:33.490
[JOHN]:I know, exactly.

01:15:33.490 -- - 01:15:34.950
[DEREK]:Yeah, they are great together.

01:15:34.950 -- - 01:15:36.850
[DEREK]:It's great to get these scenes.

01:15:36.850 -- - 01:15:42.010
[DEREK]:But yeah, all very terrifying now after seeing what's happened to Nibs as well.

01:15:43.430 -- - 01:15:48.990
[DEREK]:There's that underside of darkness below them all and where they're all going to go.

01:15:48.990 -- - 01:15:49.710
[JOHN]:Big time.

01:15:49.710 -- - 01:15:51.090
[DEREK]:Yeah, yeah.

01:15:51.090 -- - 01:15:55.130
[DEREK]:Overall then, John, what did you think of Alien Earth Episode 4 Observation?

01:15:55.130 -- - 01:16:00.050
[JOHN]:Yeah, I just think it's another really, really, really good episode.

01:16:00.050 -- - 01:16:04.730
[JOHN]:I'd give this five eyes to the left out of five.

01:16:04.730 -- - 01:16:06.070
[JOHN]:Excellent.

01:16:06.070 -- - 01:16:10.470
[JOHN]:I think I'm not really going to say much more other than what we've said on the podcast.

01:16:10.510 -- - 01:16:19.950
[JOHN]:There's so many beats here that are just really, really good, really creepy, really powerful, covering so many different themes.

01:16:19.950 -- - 01:16:45.610
[JOHN]:And then, you know, this darkness that sort of envelopes it around the condition of, you know, the human race in that sense, but equally then butted up against five different species that show horrific amounts of bloodlust for various reasons and for various sort of more animalistic motivations.

01:16:45.610 -- - 01:16:52.350
[JOHN]:So it just is really, really, really interesting, really intriguing.

01:16:52.350 -- - 01:16:54.890
[JOHN]:And I'm really looking forward to the next episode.

01:16:54.890 -- - 01:16:55.570
[DEREK]:Fantastic.

01:16:55.570 -- - 01:16:55.810
[DEREK]:Yeah.

01:16:55.810 -- - 01:16:58.390
[DEREK]:As I said earlier, Ron, this is probably my favourite show of the year so far.

01:16:59.010 -- - 01:17:04.310
[DEREK]:It's been so interesting and terrifying every week.

01:17:04.310 -- - 01:17:07.730
[DEREK]:Are we sleeping again yet, John, after this episode?

01:17:07.730 -- - 01:17:14.070
[JOHN]:Well, I'm going to take my eyes out and pop them in the jar next to the bed.

01:17:14.070 -- - 01:17:15.430
[JOHN]:Like taking your glasses off.

01:17:15.430 -- - 01:17:16.150
[DEREK]:Right.

01:17:16.150 -- - 01:17:17.150
[DEREK]:Yeah, you could probably do that.

01:17:17.150 -- - 01:17:18.690
[DEREK]:I don't think taking my eyes out.

01:17:18.690 -- - 01:17:19.410
[DEREK]:I'm not doing that.

01:17:19.490 -- - 01:17:23.010
[JOHN]:Wake up and it'll be like one of those kaleidoscopes that you used to have as a kid.

01:17:23.010 -- - 01:17:23.770
[JOHN]:Exactly.

01:17:23.770 -- - 01:17:26.590
[DEREK]:It'll be even easier for the octopupil to get inside.

01:17:26.790 -- - 01:17:28.010
[JOHN]:Yeah, absolutely.

01:17:28.010 -- - 01:17:41.230
[JOHN]:It also does remind me of one of the classic sort of Simon Pegg and Nick Frost lines where I think Nick Frost goes to Simon Pegg.

01:17:41.230 -- - 01:17:45.550
[JOHN]:I think it's the hot fuzz where he goes, I'm not made of eyes, you know.

01:17:45.550 -- - 01:17:48.150
[JOHN]:I'm like, there's literally a creature here now made of eyes.

01:17:48.150 -- - 01:17:49.890
[DEREK]:Made of eyes, yes, there is.

01:17:49.910 -- - 01:17:52.750
[JOHN]:At least pupils, yeah, but great stuff.

01:17:52.750 -- - 01:17:54.350
[DEREK]:Fantastic, fantastic.

01:17:54.350 -- - 01:18:00.050
[DEREK]:So we hear what some of our wonderful fellow Lost Boys and Aliens have to say, John.

01:18:00.050 -- - 01:18:01.550
[JOHN]:Absolutely.

01:18:01.550 -- - 01:18:07.070
[JOHN]:First up, Coffee and Vodka says, Greetings fellow monitoring defenders.

01:18:07.070 -- - 01:18:13.430
[JOHN]:How many sentences to just say, you are creepy and no, just no.

01:18:13.430 -- - 01:18:22.210
[JOHN]:There's no heroes in this tale, just victims and victimizers, which I suppose would be the subtext to this type of world.

01:18:22.210 -- - 01:18:36.370
[JOHN]:Vick and Morrow steps first to mind with his grooming and threats, which in turn creates a major threat for Joe via Groomy Slightly, all overseen by Kirsch, who has his own unknown agenda.

01:18:36.410 -- - 01:18:46.150
[JOHN]:Boy Genius with his 100% slappable face is as ever in his own league and who knows what plots lie in the minds of the alien test subjects.

01:18:46.150 -- - 01:18:51.530
[JOHN]:On and on, circles within circles, wondering what's up with cryptic Nibs?

01:18:51.530 -- - 01:18:59.830
[JOHN]:A cry for attention, impropriety on Kavalier's part, or can a synth house a creature feature after all?

01:18:59.830 -- - 01:19:10.950
[JOHN]:As for the closest thing this series has for an actual intentional hero, with Wendy being an innocent, incidental one, I don't see Arthur remaining among the living much longer.

01:19:10.950 -- - 01:19:17.650
[JOHN]:Four and a half giant Jenga sets, slightly off synths, and lonely islands out of five.

01:19:17.650 -- - 01:19:20.070
[JOHN]:Peace and take care, coffee and vodka.

01:19:20.070 -- - 01:19:20.550
[DEREK]:Excellent.

01:19:20.550 -- - 01:19:21.650
[DEREK]:Thanks, coffee and vodka.

01:19:21.650 -- - 01:19:32.870
[DEREK]:Oh, so Arthur, yeah, I think the fact that he talked to his wife and said to her, we should be really concerned about what's happening here, puts him probably at the highest on the list of who's going to die.

01:19:34.050 -- - 01:19:42.090
[JOHN]:And I mean, I think ultimately, Joe is a good guy, whether he'll be a hero, I'm not too sure.

01:19:43.530 -- - 01:19:52.190
[JOHN]:And equally, given the threats of the corporation against him, has very little room for maneuver.

01:19:52.410 -- - 01:20:02.090
[DEREK]:I just have the feeling that Wendy is going to protect Joe from whatever thing is going to possibly be going to kill him for the next four episodes.

01:20:02.530 -- - 01:20:13.810
[DEREK]:So I feel like he's got a protection of Wendy, but I feel like Arthur being the scientist who created everything, now questioning his decisions and telling his wife, we should be really concerned about this.

01:20:14.290 -- - 01:20:15.990
[DEREK]:I think Coffee and Vodka is right.

01:20:15.990 -- - 01:20:21.170
[DEREK]:It's very high up on the scale of who's going to die by the end of the season.

01:20:21.170 -- - 01:20:22.110
[JOHN]:Yeah, absolutely.

01:20:22.110 -- - 01:20:23.110
[DEREK]:A really good point there.

01:20:23.170 -- - 01:20:31.630
[DEREK]:Sorry, just a really good call out there from Coffee and Vodka on your top five, your 4.5 giant Jenga sets.

01:20:31.630 -- - 01:20:42.330
[DEREK]:When I was looking at that, I was wondering whether that Jenga set was made out of concrete and that it was showing that the hybrids are so strong that they're able to move around these massive concrete slabs in their giant Jenga set.

01:20:42.330 -- - 01:20:43.550
[JOHN]:There may be, yeah.

01:20:43.550 -- - 01:20:44.230
[DEREK]:I was just wondering.

01:20:44.230 -- - 01:20:51.710
[DEREK]:I don't know whether it's true or not, but we have seen Wendy being very powerful and being given extra strength effectively.

01:20:51.830 -- - 01:20:58.130
[DEREK]:So we've assumed that the rest of the hybrids got some extra strength or some extra power.

01:20:58.130 -- - 01:21:01.050
[DEREK]:So I wonder, was that just showing that they're moving around these concrete blocks?

01:21:01.050 -- - 01:21:06.210
[DEREK]:And if Joe went over to try and play a game with them, he wouldn't be able to pick up one of the blocks.

01:21:06.210 -- - 01:21:07.070
[JOHN]:Yeah, possibly.

01:21:07.070 -- - 01:21:08.610
[JOHN]:I didn't spot that now.

01:21:08.610 -- - 01:21:09.990
[JOHN]:But I completely agree.

01:21:10.030 -- - 01:21:13.430
[JOHN]:Coffee and Vodka is very creepy.

01:21:13.430 -- - 01:21:22.530
[JOHN]:And yet you're kind of going, that darkness that infiltrates this, you know, is quite oppressive.

01:21:22.530 -- - 01:21:28.810
[JOHN]:But those things, sometimes I find like I enjoy those types of shows sometimes.

01:21:28.810 -- - 01:21:33.570
[JOHN]:And I mean, I'm even thinking like I love Penny Dreadful, love the original Penny Dreadful.

01:21:33.570 -- - 01:21:40.050
[JOHN]:And I had a huge season two, I think, that had dolls around it.

01:21:40.050 -- - 01:21:45.730
[JOHN]:And I'm like, as soon as I saw the doll on this, I was like, a lot of shows that are quite dark.

01:21:47.550 -- - 01:21:55.710
[JOHN]:But actually, I'm quite enjoying just because the quality of them, you know, is like, seem to have dolls' heads.

01:21:55.710 -- - 01:21:56.490
[DEREK]:Creepy dolls.

01:21:56.630 -- - 01:21:58.770
[JOHN]:I don't know what it is.

01:21:58.770 -- - 01:22:05.590
[JOHN]:It's the go to, I guess, metaphor or, you know, identifier for Creepshow.

01:22:05.930 -- - 01:22:06.510
[DEREK]:Well, absolutely.

01:22:06.510 -- - 01:22:10.610
[DEREK]:I think it's just more realistic that the doll looks the creepier it is as well.

01:22:10.890 -- - 01:22:17.230
[DEREK]:You know, in some sense, the hybrids are synthetic bodies with the minds of humans inside, right?

01:22:17.230 -- - 01:22:20.730
[DEREK]:So that's dolls to the extreme scary factor.

01:22:21.410 -- - 01:22:22.610
[DEREK]:So maybe it's that.

01:22:22.610 -- - 01:22:25.770
[DEREK]:There was one moment of human in the episode that we didn't point out.

01:22:25.770 -- - 01:22:34.410
[DEREK]:I mentioned the line at the beginning of the episode, which was where Kavalier walks in with Curly and tells her to go over and twiddle some knobs and push some buttons.

01:22:35.030 -- - 01:22:39.390
[DEREK]:And actually, you see a moment in the background when Curly does quite simply that.

01:22:39.390 -- - 01:22:43.950
[DEREK]:She presses a button and all the lights go off and all the tape machines start playing.

01:22:43.950 -- - 01:22:47.310
[DEREK]:She has to slap off the button because she's pressed the wrong button.

01:22:47.310 -- - 01:22:49.110
[DEREK]:It's just a little moment, but I thought it was quite funny.

01:22:49.110 -- - 01:22:53.670
[DEREK]:I don't know whether it was done by the production team to freak out the actor or whether it was on purpose.

01:22:53.670 -- - 01:22:55.210
[DEREK]:But I did laugh.

01:22:55.210 -- - 01:22:57.330
[DEREK]:I did laugh at that.

01:22:57.330 -- - 01:22:57.990
[DEREK]:Great stuff.

01:22:57.990 -- - 01:22:59.350
[DEREK]:Thanks, Coffee and Vodka, for your feedback.

01:22:59.350 -- - 01:22:59.590
[JOHN]:Yeah.

01:22:59.590 -- - 01:23:00.850
[JOHN]:Thanks, Coffee and Vodka.

01:23:00.850 -- - 01:23:02.110
[DEREK]:Let's head on over to Facebook.

01:23:02.210 -- - 01:23:08.030
[DEREK]:First up on Facebook, Derek Whitfield says, The creepy factor has been turned up to 10 in this episode.

01:23:09.010 -- - 01:23:10.970
[DEREK]:You are not wrong, Derek.

01:23:10.970 -- - 01:23:12.290
[JOHN]:Absolutely.

01:23:12.290 -- - 01:23:25.130
[DEREK]:And Paul Tenshie Lee says, It is astonishing writing that each episode has taken a seemingly left turn, which was entirely supported by clues earlier in the episode or in previous episode and makes complete sense in the context of the entire story.

01:23:25.130 -- - 01:23:33.150
[DEREK]:I presume our hosts will hash out many of the things I could bring up, so I shall limit myself to one overarching plot detail, one production detail and one character gotcha.

01:23:33.150 -- - 01:23:39.130
[DEREK]:The plot detail comes in the top between Atom Eins, which I now think is also a synthetic, and Joe Hermit.

01:23:39.130 -- - 01:23:48.810
[DEREK]:While Eins is trying to get Joe to give a definitive answer on if he thinks Wendy is Marcy, he is also asserting that Wendy is not a person but a machine and property of prodigy.

01:23:48.810 -- - 01:24:01.130
[DEREK]:Assuming Boy K is serious about offering the transference of mind slash soul to an immortal body as a viable business, this won't work if the hybrid don't feel their humanity or can't convince other people of their humanity.

01:24:01.130 -- - 01:24:07.950
[DEREK]:This is an echo of Boy K's discussion with Dame Sylvia in Episode 1, and I actually don't know if Boy K cares about this detail.

01:24:07.950 -- - 01:24:19.290
[DEREK]:And even if the transference is real and works, I imagine that the legal status and synthetics must be closer to that of a self-driving car than a person who is committed to a psychiatric institution.

01:24:19.290 -- - 01:24:33.330
[DEREK]:And if hybrids stay legally things and not people, then anyone signing up for this procedure would have to make sure there are safeguards in place to allow the new hybrid autonomy and be free of any obligations slash compunctions Prodigy puts into the underlying hardware.

01:24:33.330 -- - 01:24:34.530
[DEREK]:Very interesting.

01:24:34.530 -- - 01:24:35.890
[JOHN]:Very interesting.

01:24:35.890 -- - 01:24:52.670
[DEREK]:The only thing I would suspect is if they are to market this as an idea, the idea of eternal life through putting your mind or soul inside the body of a synthetic, that it would be only for very, very wealthy people.

01:24:52.670 -- - 01:24:55.310
[DEREK]:It wouldn't be something that everybody would have access to.

01:24:55.850 -- - 01:25:01.270
[DEREK]:And those very, very wealthy people are probably the lawmakers in this world, given that there's five companies running the world.

01:25:01.670 -- - 01:25:02.710
[JOHN]:Well, absolutely.

01:25:02.710 -- - 01:25:32.490
[JOHN]:I mean, if arguably you come from the point that, you know, tech giants are destroying culture, humanity or whatever, you know, childhood, whatever it might be, then, yes, they could don't have to worry themselves about these, these particular points that would have been brought up possibly by a regulator from a country or a regional entity.

01:25:32.490 -- - 01:25:35.090
[JOHN]:You know, it's their world.

01:25:35.090 -- - 01:25:37.890
[JOHN]:They set the rules and this is the case, I think.

01:25:37.890 -- - 01:25:39.190
[DEREK]:I'll keep it right now in the real world.

01:25:39.310 -- - 01:25:45.870
[DEREK]:We know that MESA and Alphabet and Apple, there is no oversight over them.

01:25:46.530 -- - 01:25:52.270
[DEREK]:They tell every country they're in that they self-regulate until regulation eventually catches up with them.

01:25:52.270 -- - 01:26:07.430
[DEREK]:And then when regulation catches up with them, you find out that they've just put aside the 200 million to pay off, whatever the regulation said was going to charge them for their faulty processes and before flaunting the regulation.

01:26:07.590 -- - 01:26:10.230
[DEREK]:So there is no real regulation on them at the moment.

01:26:10.230 -- - 01:26:17.330
[DEREK]:And as we've heard Boy Kaysay and Joe explain once again in this episode, the world is now run by five corporations.

01:26:17.330 -- - 01:26:29.050
[DEREK]:So there is absolutely no oversight, no regulation on these companies and whatever they're creating will just go into the market without anybody holding it back, which is even more terrifying than having Xenomorphs in the planet.

01:26:29.050 -- - 01:26:29.710
[JOHN]:Absolutely.

01:26:29.710 -- - 01:26:38.230
[JOHN]:And it's also as well interesting that Ridley Scott did place the Tyrrell Corporation from Blade Runner in this world as well.

01:26:38.230 -- - 01:26:41.690
[JOHN]:And this idea of do androids dream of electric sheep?

01:26:41.690 -- - 01:26:44.870
[JOHN]:Do they have this sentience?

01:26:45.050 -- - 01:26:54.430
[JOHN]:That is snowballed into a lot of this discussion around synths, hybrids and cyborgs.

01:26:54.430 -- - 01:27:05.430
[JOHN]:And that it is, at least from Ridley Scott's perspective, in the same world in terms of large corporations that have the control.

01:27:05.430 -- - 01:27:07.590
[DEREK]:Yeah, absolutely John, absolutely.

01:27:07.590 -- - 01:27:09.650
[DEREK]:But really really good points there Paul.

01:27:09.650 -- - 01:27:12.750
[JOHN]:Yeah, absolutely, really interesting.

01:27:12.750 -- - 01:27:17.090
[DEREK]:The production detail point that Paul has is, the production detail is they don't have big screens.

01:27:17.090 -- - 01:27:21.810
[DEREK]:This was particularly noticeable to me when Marcy and Joe were watching Ice Age 4 in her room.

01:27:21.810 -- - 01:27:25.150
[DEREK]:That's something like a 30 inch diagonal screen.

01:27:25.150 -- - 01:27:28.490
[DEREK]:This was a wider ratio than 4.3, but not as wide as 16.10.

01:27:28.490 -- - 01:27:31.690
[DEREK]:This implies the large LED panels don't exist in this universe.

01:27:32.190 -- - 01:27:39.750
[DEREK]:Though a lithium battery with enough capacity to power a small city fit within the body of Wendy and presumably all the hybrids, this is carried over to mobile screens.

01:27:39.750 -- - 01:27:46.510
[DEREK]:The tablet-like devices look like they're at least 1.5cm thick or three iPads stacked together.

01:27:46.510 -- - 01:27:51.990
[DEREK]:The phone Morrow swipes in Episode 3 is like four decks of playing cards, poker not bridge, when closed.

01:27:51.990 -- - 01:27:59.650
[DEREK]:And the only reason we see a big image of Ice Age 4 in Joe's apartment is that his flatmates have projected the movie onto the curtain that divides the living space from the rest of the unit.

01:28:00.030 -- - 01:28:08.310
[DEREK]:This implies that the big round screens above the transference table is likely not some giant CRT, but has a projector behind it pointing down.

01:28:08.310 -- - 01:28:11.550
[DEREK]:I just love this attention to detail in the art direction.

01:28:11.550 -- - 01:28:13.690
[JOHN]:Absolutely good spot there.

01:28:14.310 -- - 01:28:14.850
[DEREK]:Yeah.

01:28:14.850 -- - 01:28:29.150
[DEREK]:You know, that that's kind of the big thing they must have struggled up against, because obviously there was a lot of future tech in the 70s, Alien and Aliens, and they have to kind of match it in while also being 50 years removed from when those movies were made.

01:28:29.230 -- - 01:28:31.030
[DEREK]:So they know what the tech is actually like now.

01:28:31.030 -- - 01:28:35.150
[DEREK]:So having these touches really does add to the universe, doesn't it?

01:28:35.150 -- - 01:28:35.730
[JOHN]:It does.

01:28:35.850 -- - 01:28:38.570
[JOHN]:I mean, it's almost a bit like.

01:28:40.050 -- - 01:28:45.490
[JOHN]:Like the inner workings of it probably are really advanced, but in terms of the.

01:28:47.670 -- - 01:29:01.770
[JOHN]:The design, the happy with sort of the the green screen, the green text on the slightly green black background like we had in the 80s, the 80s, you know, and they don't need loads of fonts.

01:29:01.770 -- - 01:29:04.610
[JOHN]:It's just at least not for computer screens.

01:29:04.610 -- - 01:29:08.710
[JOHN]:It I can't, there's something quite nice about that.

01:29:08.710 -- - 01:29:13.170
[JOHN]:That it's like if the inner workings of it that are advanced.

01:29:13.170 -- - 01:29:14.230
[JOHN]:Yes.

01:29:14.230 -- - 01:29:17.350
[JOHN]:Not as such the design and the look of it.

01:29:17.350 -- - 01:29:17.690
[DEREK]:Yeah.

01:29:17.690 -- - 01:29:17.890
[DEREK]:Yeah.

01:29:17.890 -- - 01:29:23.070
[DEREK]:As a friend of mine, who's a computer engineer, who just describes that everything actually looks like that behind it.

01:29:23.070 -- - 01:29:30.250
[DEREK]:All the computer programmers have been doing for the last two or three decades is just making this shiny frontage for it, to make it look nice to people.

01:29:30.250 -- - 01:29:32.310
[DEREK]:But in the back end, it's all just ones and zeros.

01:29:32.610 -- - 01:29:35.370
[DEREK]:And does look like a green screen.

01:29:35.370 -- - 01:29:40.150
[DEREK]:But yeah, it's very interesting that kept that in production.

01:29:40.150 -- - 01:29:41.430
[DEREK]:Thanks for that, Paul.

01:29:41.430 -- - 01:29:50.030
[DEREK]:Finally, Paul says, the gotcha is that Boy K misattributes any sufficiently advanced technologies indistinguishable from magic to Asimov.

01:29:50.030 -- - 01:29:52.010
[DEREK]:It is, of course, from Arthur C.

01:29:52.010 -- - 01:29:52.790
[DEREK]:Clark.

01:29:52.790 -- - 01:30:06.050
[DEREK]:I can't decide if Boy K failed his nerd check role, or if he has his mind on Asimov because he is counting on some version of the Three Laws of Robotics to keep his synthetics hybrid or otherwise in their place.

01:30:06.050 -- - 01:30:07.530
[DEREK]:That's a really interesting one.

01:30:07.530 -- - 01:30:10.250
[DEREK]:I can't imagine that's just an error.

01:30:10.250 -- - 01:30:11.110
[JOHN]:No, absolutely.

01:30:11.110 -- - 01:30:15.510
[DEREK]:Like on the part of the writers, that's a very simple thing to look up, isn't it?

01:30:15.510 -- - 01:30:18.610
[DEREK]:Whether that was from Isaac Asimov or whether it was from Arthur C.

01:30:18.610 -- - 01:30:19.350
[DEREK]:Clark.

01:30:19.350 -- - 01:30:19.690
[JOHN]:Yeah.

01:30:19.690 -- - 01:30:40.090
[DEREK]:You know, I had the suspicion at the beginning of the series, and maybe I'm wrong, but I had the suspicion at the beginning of the series that everybody treats Boy K as a very intelligent prodigy because he's got a huge amount of money and has got himself here by using the talents of lots of scientists like the Sylvies.

01:30:40.090 -- - 01:30:44.010
[DEREK]:But he's not as intelligent as he seems to purport.

01:30:44.010 -- - 01:30:44.330
[JOHN]:Yeah.

01:30:44.330 -- - 01:30:45.850
[JOHN]:I mean, that's a possibility.

01:30:45.850 -- - 01:30:49.570
[JOHN]:And it might be why Kirsch looks at him the way that he does.

01:30:49.630 -- - 01:30:49.830
[DEREK]:Yes.

01:30:49.830 -- - 01:30:50.470
[JOHN]:Possibly.

01:30:50.470 -- - 01:30:51.410
[DEREK]:Yes.

01:30:51.590 -- - 01:30:52.610
[DEREK]:I get that.

01:30:52.610 -- - 01:30:53.130
[JOHN]:Yeah.

01:30:53.130 -- - 01:30:53.870
[DEREK]:I just I don't know.

01:30:53.870 -- - 01:30:56.150
[DEREK]:There's just moments where I'm going, yes, okay.

01:30:56.150 -- - 01:31:02.890
[DEREK]:He set up all these labs and he set up all these experiments and he's jumping steps that scientists wouldn't do.

01:31:02.890 -- - 01:31:09.650
[DEREK]:That's why that's why Dame Sylvia has that moment with her husband where she says, you know, he's making leaps and bounds.

01:31:09.650 -- - 01:31:16.150
[DEREK]:But is he doing it because he's intelligent or is doing it because he thinks he's more intelligent than he is?

01:31:16.150 -- - 01:31:16.930
[DEREK]:Yeah.

01:31:16.930 -- - 01:31:18.270
[DEREK]:So he's making these kind of mistakes.

01:31:19.530 -- - 01:31:19.810
[DEREK]:Yeah.

01:31:19.810 -- - 01:31:21.190
[DEREK]:But it's a really interesting moment, though.

01:31:21.190 -- - 01:31:22.390
[DEREK]:I do love the quote.

01:31:22.390 -- - 01:31:32.850
[DEREK]:And I love that he then, this is the moment when he turns around to Wendy and says to her, and I just use your voice box to project this voice, alakazam, and it comes out.

01:31:32.850 -- - 01:31:33.770
[DEREK]:I love that moment of that.

01:31:33.770 -- - 01:31:37.130
[DEREK]:It was a really interesting way of way of using that.

01:31:37.130 -- - 01:31:39.330
[DEREK]:The quote anyway, an interesting one.

01:31:39.330 -- - 01:31:41.850
[DEREK]:Would Noah Hawley have gotten that wrong in his writing?

01:31:41.850 -- - 01:31:42.950
[JOHN]:Who knows?

01:31:42.950 -- - 01:31:43.490
[DEREK]:Who knows?

01:31:43.490 -- - 01:31:44.130
[DEREK]:We'll find out.

01:31:44.130 -- - 01:31:44.590
[DEREK]:We'll find out.

01:31:44.590 -- - 01:31:45.610
[JOHN]:Excellent stuff.

01:31:45.610 -- - 01:31:46.350
[JOHN]:Thanks, Paul.

01:31:46.350 -- - 01:31:46.750
[DEREK]:Absolutely.

01:31:46.750 -- - 01:31:47.130
[DEREK]:Thanks, Bob.

01:31:47.430 -- - 01:31:48.430
[JOHN]:Finally, Dr.

01:31:48.430 -- - 01:31:56.690
[JOHN]:Bob Phillips says, There is something deep within me that will never find a double jawed, eyeless, acid-blooded killer eel cute.

01:31:56.690 -- - 01:32:00.610
[JOHN]:No matter how much Wendy tries to tickle it like a kitten.

01:32:00.610 -- - 01:32:02.830
[JOHN]:The butler is terrifying.

01:32:02.830 -- - 01:32:08.410
[JOHN]:Old school gangsters, right hand man, like Kingpins XO.

01:32:10.390 -- - 01:32:16.510
[JOHN]:Morrow is as bad, and the growling sheep after Octoglobe invaded its brain.

01:32:16.510 -- - 01:32:21.130
[JOHN]:The retina is, after all, just an extension of your cortex.

01:32:21.130 -- - 01:32:25.130
[JOHN]:Does not look like it wants to negotiate, absolutely.

01:32:26.250 -- - 01:32:35.550
[JOHN]:Final note, got to love the way they accurately plumbed the pulmonary vessels in Derek's kebab incubator lung her sculpture.

01:32:36.010 -- - 01:32:38.950
[JOHN]:Pity it had to burst in the end.

01:32:38.950 -- - 01:32:40.770
[JOHN]:Great stuff, Dr.

01:32:40.770 -- - 01:32:41.810
[JOHN]:Bob.

01:32:41.810 -- - 01:32:49.670
[JOHN]:I think that is probably the line I was looking for before around the sheep, in terms of its stir.

01:32:49.670 -- - 01:32:53.050
[JOHN]:It does not look like it wants to negotiate.

01:32:53.050 -- - 01:32:55.350
[JOHN]:It really doesn't.

01:32:55.350 -- - 01:32:57.150
[JOHN]:Absolutely not.

01:32:57.150 -- - 01:33:00.470
[JOHN]:Very much, I don't need to blink.

01:33:00.470 -- - 01:33:03.690
[JOHN]:Whatever you might have to do, I don't need to blink.

01:33:04.430 -- - 01:33:04.950
[DEREK]:But that's what I mean.

01:33:05.130 -- - 01:33:10.930
[DEREK]:I wonder if it's just that moment of it's attaching itself to the sheep and going, maybe they'll understand what I want now.

01:33:10.930 -- - 01:33:13.090
[DEREK]:I want to eat everything.

01:33:13.090 -- - 01:33:14.870
[DEREK]:Oh no, they're still not understanding it.

01:33:14.870 -- - 01:33:22.090
[DEREK]:Maybe I need to attach myself to one of their meaty sacks and then I can communicate with them and tell them I want meat.

01:33:22.370 -- - 01:33:37.390
[JOHN]:Yeah, and I hadn't really thought of Joe Hermit's old lung as a Damien Hirst sculpture, but I quite like the idea of it, because I always found Hirst's stuff fascinating.

01:33:37.390 -- - 01:33:42.350
[JOHN]:I'd say less so now that the formaldehyde has really penetrated in.

01:33:42.350 -- - 01:33:49.490
[JOHN]:I reckon it looked like a Victorian museum piece at this stage.

01:33:49.490 -- - 01:33:53.910
[JOHN]:But yeah, it's interesting.

01:33:53.970 -- - 01:33:55.910
[JOHN]:It was a bit Hirst-like.

01:33:57.130 -- - 01:34:07.090
[JOHN]:Just because the actual ventilator element of it looked like it was made out of brass and wood as it really felt steampunk.

01:34:07.090 -- - 01:34:08.430
[DEREK]:Yeah, definitely.

01:34:08.570 -- - 01:34:18.790
[DEREK]:I must say, I just loved that sound and the image of the lung keeping itself going, I suppose, which is just completely outside of the body.

01:34:18.790 -- - 01:34:21.210
[DEREK]:It was so interesting to see.

01:34:21.210 -- - 01:34:28.870
[DEREK]:Having Wendy hum along her little tune as she's watching it, just all the creepy in this episode.

01:34:28.870 -- - 01:34:29.390
[DEREK]:Great stuff.

01:34:29.390 -- - 01:34:29.870
[DEREK]:Thanks, Dr.

01:34:29.870 -- - 01:34:30.470
[DEREK]:Bob, for your feedback.

01:34:30.650 -- - 01:34:31.650
[JOHN]:Yeah, thanks, Dr.

01:34:31.650 -- - 01:34:37.990
[JOHN]:Bob, and thank you so much, fellow Lost Boys and Aliens for providing your feedback.

01:34:37.990 -- - 01:34:40.450
[JOHN]:Please keep it coming in.

01:34:40.450 -- - 01:34:48.070
[JOHN]:But thank you so much for joining us for our coverage of Episode 4 of Alien Earth Observation.

01:34:48.070 -- - 01:34:50.830
[JOHN]:We hope you stay subscribed to the podcast.

01:34:50.830 -- - 01:35:04.530
[JOHN]:Tune in as well, because we will be back for our discussion of the fifth episode of Alien Earth, entitled quite yummily as In Space No One.

01:35:04.530 -- - 01:35:05.730
[DEREK]:Dot, dot, dot.

01:35:05.730 -- - 01:35:06.430
[JOHN]:Indeed.

01:35:06.430 -- - 01:35:11.190
[DEREK]:Yeah, the dot, dot, dot specific, because we all know that originally that was In Space No One.

01:35:11.190 -- - 01:35:14.550
[DEREK]:Can hear you scream the original tagline for the Aliens movie.

01:35:14.550 -- - 01:35:15.790
[DEREK]:But what does it mean this time?

01:35:15.790 -- - 01:35:18.470
[DEREK]:In Space No One.

01:35:18.470 -- - 01:35:26.030
[DEREK]:Originally, I have no idea for definite, but originally I thought this was going to be our flashback episode where we see what happened on the Mangino.

01:35:26.030 -- - 01:35:35.350
[DEREK]:And I wonder if they're going to take a little bit of time now, that we've had the birth of a Xenomorph, and Wendy stroking it to become friends with the baby Xenomorph.

01:35:35.350 -- - 01:35:43.410
[DEREK]:Will they take a little flash to space to see what happened on the Mangino before Morrow crashed down to get his backstory now?

01:35:45.230 -- - 01:35:49.550
[JOHN]:Or whether it just intercuts with what is happening on Neverland.

01:35:49.630 -- - 01:35:57.950
[JOHN]:You know, that in space no one, and also on a remote Pacific island, no one can hear you scream.

01:35:57.950 -- - 01:36:03.050
[DEREK]:Or on a remote Pacific island, every single person on that island can hear you scream.

01:36:03.050 -- - 01:36:04.150
[JOHN]:But not anyone who's much on it.

01:36:04.150 -- - 01:36:06.430
[DEREK]:Not even outsiders, yes.

01:36:06.430 -- - 01:36:08.230
[DEREK]:Anyway, very much looking forward to that episode.

01:36:08.230 -- - 01:36:09.250
[DEREK]:Thanks so much for joining us.

01:36:09.250 -- - 01:36:10.570
[DEREK]:We'll speak to you again next time.

01:36:10.570 -- - 01:36:10.830
[JOHN]:Yes.

01:36:10.830 -- - 01:36:20.630
[JOHN]:And on that high-pitched screaming note, until next time, fellow aliens, keep watching, keep listening, and of course, keep screaming.

01:36:20.630 -- - 01:36:20.810
[JOHN]:Bye.

01:37:00.050 -- - 01:37:01.770
[DEREK]:All about the character interactions here as well.

01:37:01.770 -- - 01:37:02.350
[JOHN]:It really is.

01:37:02.350 -- - 01:37:15.150
[JOHN]:I mean, as the episode sort of says, it's an observation of a day in the life on compound, in compound Neverland, you know?

01:37:16.930 -- - 01:37:23.350
[JOHN]:It really is that kind of observation of a day in the life on, in-

01:37:37.358 -- - 01:37:40.498
[JOHN]:Keep watching, keep listening, and of course, keep screaming.

01:37:40.498 -- - 01:37:41.138
[DEREK]:Bye.

01:37:44.038 -- - 01:37:45.618
[JOHN]:Bye.

01:37:45.778 -- - 01:37:48.078
[JOHN]:Wasn't the screen.

01:37:48.078 -- - 01:37:49.158
[DEREK]:If you do well, keep it in.

01:37:49.158 -- - 01:37:49.618
[DEREK]:I promise.