The Last of Us Season 2 Episode 6 Review

[00:00:00] This is The Last Of Us Podcast on TV Podcast Industries, we're talking about The Last Of Us Season 2 Episode 6, The Price. I need you to not turn around. No. You can't do this to me. Joel. If you have last words for her, I'll pass them along. Last words for her? No, no, I need her last words! For me!

[00:00:32] I'm dying! I'm terrified! I don't need a view. I need Gail. I need to see her face, please. Please let that be the last thing I see.

[00:01:01] If you love someone, you can always see their face. Welcome back fellow survivors to The Last Of Us Podcast on TV Podcast Industries.

[00:01:28] We're talking about the penultimate episode of Season 2 Episode 6, The Price. I am one of your hosts, Derek. Hello there, fellow survivors! I am your other host, John. Yes, welcome to The Price Is Right! Well, yes, or the second Last Of Us as the penultimate episode of the second season of the show. Indeed. Did you hear Craig Mason, apparently this week, has said that they can't complete the story in three seasons,

[00:01:56] that they have to have a fourth season to complete the story. Interesting. Very interesting. I know they'd always said that they'd spread the second game over at least two seasons, but I didn't imagine it was going to be over three seasons. Yeah, I mean, I guess structurally, the complexity maybe around it, that there is a need for three seasons for the second game. Yeah.

[00:02:21] It's just interesting that, I guess in that sense, the first season is possibly a little simpler in terms of its story arc. Yeah. And really, like that's really focused on two characters in the first game, and they expanded on that a lot to fill out the first season, you know, episodes with characters that didn't appear in the game at all. And in the second season, we're seeing a lot of expansion already happening.

[00:02:50] So I think they could easily expand it out to three seasons, you know. Yeah, I mean, as long as the quality remains as it is now, I'm all for a fourth season of The Last of Us, to be honest. Because, you know, I guess as we get into our spoiler-filled discussion, well, I really, really enjoyed this episode. This was fabulous, wasn't it? A real quality, character-driven, tough old emotional stuff here. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:17] You know, going from the good times to, yeah, happy times, to growing pains, you know, to that divergence, and the bit of sweetness of what happens on New Year's Eve. So, yeah, can't wait to get into our spoiler-filled discussion, fellow survivors. Absolutely. But before we do, if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, please pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com,

[00:03:44] where you can subscribe on any immune or infected podcast player of your choice. We do want to hear your thoughts as we get to the final episode of the season. Please email us into feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com, or pop on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries. And a reminder, the second season of our World's End pub quiz is continuing. We have another question coming up later on in this episode. That'll be the 6th of 7. And at the end of the season, email us in with the correct answers to all seven questions,

[00:04:11] and you could be able to get your hands on The Last of Us, part two for PlayStation or for PC, or a 50 euro Amazon voucher for the country of your choice. Yes, so fellow survivors, and of course fellow quizzers, get those answers coming in after the 7th episode to be in with a chance for those goodies.

[00:04:34] But I think with that, Derek, what are some of the episode details of The Last of Us episode 6 of Season 2, The Price? Well, of course, it's based on the 2020 PlayStation game The Last of Us, part two by Neil Druckmann and Hayley Wiggin-Gross from game publisher Naughty Dog. The show is written and executive produced by Craig Mason and Neil Druckmann, and this episode was written for television by Craig Mason, Neil Druckmann and Hayley Wiggin-Gross, two of the game writers on board here for this penultimate episode as well,

[00:05:03] along with Craig Mason, who's written all the episodes so far this season. So a really important episode as it spans so much time in between the end of the first game and the start of Season 2, the start of the game as well. Yes, it's a really interesting choice, isn't it, actually, to bring the original creators of the game and the writers of that game into these areas where it's building on the game. Exactly. So a really good choice there.

[00:05:30] It's almost, you know, there's so much that's actually translated from the game directly that it's almost like if you left off one of their writing credits on this, it wouldn't be right because they wrote exactly the scenes, exactly the lines in the game itself. So it makes sense to have them on board to tool them into the show itself as well. So, yeah. Yeah. And this episode is directed by Neil Druckmann. He wasn't going to come back and direct an episode for the second season of The Last of Us, but felt this would be the episode that he would direct if he's going to direct any, this episode with all about Joel and Ellie, really.

[00:06:00] So great to have him directing this one. Yeah, really good stuff. Yeah. So, John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for The Last of Us Season 2, Episode 6, The Price? Sure. Soon after moving into Jackson, Joel tries to make Ellie's 15th birthday special as he gives her a hand-restored guitar and a vanilla birthday cake for Eli. But after recovering from attempting to burn the bite mark from her arm,

[00:06:27] Ellie asks Joel to sing to her, agreeing that he doesn't suck. A year later, while Ellie's mind is firmly on getting out to patrol around Jackson, Joel insists that she take it slowly, trains with Jesse and learns the ropes as he surprises her with a visit to a museum to fulfil her dream of going to space. But after her amazing birthday, Ellie still has something on her mind. Another year on, and Ellie is growing up faster than Joel would like.

[00:06:56] She's smoking weed, kissing girls and getting a tattoo to cover her burned arm. But Joel just wanted her to stay the same. He eventually concedes that Ellie needs her own space and arranges for her to move out to the garage. By the time of her 19th birthday, Ellie wants to confront Joel about what really happened at Salt Lake City all those years ago. But when Joel takes her on her first patrol, she forgets all about it,

[00:07:23] as her reconnaissance of the woodland finds only a pair of amorous squirrels. After the uneventful start to the patrol, Joel is sent as an emergency backup for Adam and Eugene, who have gotten into trouble with some infected. Ellie insists on going with Joel, but when they arrive, Adam is already dead and Eugene has been bitten. Eugene just wants to see his wife Gail one last time before he dies.

[00:07:52] Ellie has Joel promise he'll keep Eugene alive while she goes to retrieve their horses. But despite this, Joel executes the infected man. An upset and betrayed Ellie realises this isn't the first time Joel has lied to her, and tells Gail what Joel really did to her husband before separating herself from him. Nine months later, after Joel tries to defend her at the New Year's Eve dance, Ellie finally confronts Joel and learns all about Salt Lake City,

[00:08:21] and that he did what he did because he loves her. She doesn't know if she can forgive him, but now that she knows the truth, she would like to try. But this is the last conversation the two will have, as within 24 hours, Joel will be dead, murdered at the hands of Abby. Back in present-day Seattle, following her brutal torture of Nora, Ellie returns to the theatre where Jesse and Dina are waiting for her. Excellent, excellent. What did you think of the structure of this one, John,

[00:08:51] before we get into our major points from the episode? What did you think of this idea of jumping from one march to another march every year to celebrate Ellie's birthday? I just think it's a really, really nice way of structuring it for a start. Like, I'm all kind of... I'm all about the structure of things in a lot of cases because I think you can really... It forms the basis of, you know,

[00:09:18] a book or of a TV show or of a series, however you play around with it. And I just think it's a really important moment in the life of Ellie. But also the life of Joel with the fact that Ellie is this surrogate daughter. Yeah. So it puts an emphasis, you know, either if things are going good, things are great on a birthday. If there's strains, it gets potentially a little bit more awkward and so on.

[00:09:49] And I do like the way it kind of evolves. The first birthday, you know, when she's 15, that it's good times, all the way through to where really you get this gradual sort of growing pains and divergences. She becomes more independent, but also wants to understand this niggle that is playing in her mind about Salt Lake City.

[00:10:15] And that strain is what blows up the birthday, in effect. Yeah. So there's a couple of things I really like about it as well. You know, we're talking about the period of time from when Ellie and Joel move into Jackson and they have their own home together. This is the first time they're really a family. They're not on their mission anymore. They've settled down and they've got their roots here. So every year we're checking in with them. I think that's a great part of the structure, as you say. But the other thing I really like is that on every single situation,

[00:10:43] Joel has an intent that he's coming to, to, you know, celebrate her birthday, to do something special for Ellie. And he's missing something going on in Ellie's life. She's focused on something else every single year. And only occasionally does he realize what she's focused on when he's trying to just celebrate her birthday and have time with her as a kid. And she's focused on other things outside of it, which we'll get to as we go through each of the years. But, yeah, really, really great idea. And, again, this is something very similar to how it plays out in the game as well.

[00:11:12] These years go by as you play through this time with Joel. It's great to have Pedro Pascal back. Definitely, definitely. After we lost Joel earlier on in the season. There's some really amazing emotional scenes here and double acts between Joel and Ellie. For me, Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey here together are just a tour de force. And, I mean, we'll come to it as we go through each of the moments.

[00:11:40] But it's just really, really superbly done, I think. You're totally right with that, John. Let's get into our moments from the episode. Let's start out with the flashback sequence for this episode. I'm almost convinced now that that sequence at the start of last week's episode is supposed to be a flashback episode because every single episode has had a flashback at the start of it this season. Unlike last season, everything has gone back a few years.

[00:12:07] So here in this flashback sequence, we get some time back in 1983 in Austin, Texas with the young brothers, Tommy and Joel. Tommy once again in trouble. It just reminds me that in that first episode of The Last of Us Season 1, how it opens is Tommy's in prison and Joel has to go and help him out. Here we are in Season 2, Episode 6, the penultimate episode of Season 2, and we've got Tommy getting himself into trouble once again and Joel being the one that has to save him.

[00:12:35] He's going to take the blame for it because apparently their father is very violent and is going to take the belt out on Tommy and Tommy doesn't want to get punished for the thing he actually did. So Joel's going to take the punishment for him. He's saying to him, I'll explain it to him. That leads to a really interesting conversation with Joel and his dad. Yeah, no, I really, really enjoyed the scene. And I think I really enjoyed it because of the dynamic of the conversation

[00:13:02] about someone realizing where and how he was brought up and realizing that he needs to sort of do something better than what his father had done or what Tommy and Joel's grandfather had done to him. Not that he's perfect, not that he is saying, I'm not doing, I'm not going to sort of discipline my child

[00:13:29] with a belt or a slipper or a smack or whatever it is, but not to the point where, as he says, he has a broken jaw. That's not sort of a disciplining, that is a full-on punch that he describes that his grandfather gave to him that broke his jaw. It was wired shut for, what, two months? And, you know, this is the story he tells. And he goes, you know, he goes, maybe I go too far, but I don't know.

[00:13:59] I don't know, but I'm doing a bit better than my father did. And when it's your turn, I hope you do a little bit better than me. It's just that tiny increment that he talks about. That's probably what's so frustrating and what works so well in the conversation. He's trying to justify the fact that his kids are terrified of doing anything wrong because they'll get beaten by him. And that's what makes it such a difficult conversation. Joel's dad here is saying, look, I don't always get it right,

[00:14:28] but at least I'm a little better than my father. I never broke your arm. I never broke your face. I never broke your jaw. So I'm doing a little better. And I know it might not always be right, but Joel's response to him going, but you know what it's like. You understand what it's like. How can you do this to us if you know what we're going through? And he's going, but you didn't go through what I went through back then. Everybody knew for two months when my jaw was wired shut that the reason that was wired shut was because I stole some candy and my father broke my jaw. You'll never experience that.

[00:14:58] So I'm a little better than my dad was and hopefully you'll be a little better than I am. And it's kind of, it's not taking responsibility, but it's also saying at least I'm not as bad as what I had to put up with. It's that attitude of, well, I'm better, I'm slightly better than the previous generation, but not learning enough that I'm a great dad, you know? I mean, yeah, I just like the back and forth because I do think, you know, we kind of look going, we want it to be perfect. We want it done now. And I, but I think a lot of things in life are incremental.

[00:15:27] I'm not saying that his dad is right to have that view, but if it gets to Joel being the good father, where he doesn't hit, that's, that incrementality, you know, sometimes just passes through the system and it's that collective effort of little increments. It is, you know, as much as laws being passed or more widespread societal view,

[00:15:55] but that's ultimately what leads to it is that little by little, the idea that violence is a good means of disciplining children and what level that is gets reduced. And I think, you know, so in a sense his father's, he's wrong, but there's an element of right in him that's coming out as well. I really like that because I do think it's a really complex story that is often overlooked, you know,

[00:16:26] in, in these tales. It's just that he's bad. I mean, the interesting thing is he doesn't hit them in this case. He's had that conversation. So maybe after that, it changes. And, and I think the other side of this that's really interesting is that on the flip side is it, the, the scene is so incredibly tense. Like I think when he gets up to go for the beers in the fridge, I just thought, I thought it was going to clip him, hit him. I, all the time,

[00:16:55] the tension, uh, that really plays through with this as to whether he's going to beat Tommy. Um, you know, the other side of it is, I guess, being in the police, you know, that side of it is an interesting dynamic in this situation. Yeah. Um, in that he does ask, what have you done? He does give them the opportunity to say the truth and he lies and he knows that. So I mean, the other side of it is, like, I guess,

[00:17:24] is that element as well. You know, I've spoken to the colleagues that picked up the, the guy that you hit and I've spoken to him. Yeah. Don't treat me like a fool. Exactly. Um, I'm not coming in here half-baked around, you know, what's happened. I know what's happened. Yeah. I want you to tell me the truth. And it's interesting and I think this whole point here and this flashback, the, it resonates

[00:17:54] to, I guess, what ultimately is our final point of this podcast around the nine months later, you know, around the incremental change but also the fact that you have, um, Joel telling the truth rather, but it's being forced out of him again, this time by Ellie, not necessarily his father. Well, exactly, exactly. I suppose in a more simplistic way, it really resonates with everything that Joel's gone through.

[00:18:24] He's someone that, um, has lied multiple times and will continue to lie. That's kind of something that's been built into his character all the way from back when he was a kid. Even though his father is a police officer, knew what happened, he still lied to his face to him. And so, that's something that continued on for the rest of his life until, uh, he eventually, um, changes his mind and finally tells the truth which we will get through later on. But what a great performance here from Tony Dalton who plays his father. This is the second time this year we've talked about Tony Dalton. He was in Daredevil Born Again

[00:18:53] playing the Swordsmaster once again. He played that role in Marvel's Hawkeye as well. So, seeing him twice this year in two very different roles is really interesting. But what great casting. He feels like he could be the father of Pedro Pascal. Definitely. I mean, it's just so well done. I found it fascinating and I think the fact that it links to that final emotional moment as well is just, you know, a point of, of genius really for me.

[00:19:22] I really like that book ending of this episode with this flashback as, and then, you know, in a sense, the flashback to New Year's Eve that we saw at the start of this, um, second season. Um, but I do, I think it's real fascinating dynamic around family dynamics, around the use of, you know, physical disciplining around, um, around the idea of saying, you know, of lying, telling the truth as opposed to trying

[00:19:52] to cover it up. And just the difficult generational, um, struggles that, I guess, parents, families can have. Uh, you know, and again, we see that, you know, around the 19th birthday point that we'll come to, you know, the difficulties there for Joel. Exactly. So it's just really great opening and it weirdly sets up, you know, other aspects throughout this journey through the birthdays. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:22] And something that we didn't see in the game, we never saw any kind of flashbacks to the youth of, of Joel. We never saw any, any information about what he was like when he was a kid or about his father. So, and you, uh, added peace for the show here, which we liked as a, as a, a flashback. I think the other quick, interesting thing before we go on to our next point is that Joel is back in the opening credits. Yes, he is. So there are two fun guys, um, representing Ellie and, uh, and Joel there. Yeah. I suspect that's the last time

[00:20:52] we're going to see that in the opening credits. I think so. I think from now on, it'll just be the one. Um, but yes, great to see that back just for this episode as it's all about Joel and Ellie's relationship. Let's go on to our point number one then, since we, uh, since we had a flashback point there, uh, it's got to point number one, which is Ellie's 15th birthday. Um, so, as I mentioned earlier, on, this is, just a couple of months, uh, I think two months after they moved into Jackson Hole. Um, it starts out with Joel going to the bar, Seth, the bar owner, uh, who plays a pivotal role towards the end of the story. Um,

[00:21:22] but he's behind the bar and he's going to be making a birthday cake, um, for Ellie in exchange for some Lego, um, that Joel's been able to source, uh, just like that little moment, uh, when Joel says to him, um, where he found it and, and Seth says, I wasn't able to find it. I checked all those houses before. I'm a smuggler. I know exactly where people put stuff and you're a, um, whatever you are. And Seth goes, well, I was a police officer before. It's like, you know, a little bit of a cops and robbers kind of thing between the two of them there.

[00:21:52] Maybe. Yeah, no, no, absolutely. Definitely. It was a great little vibe actually, uh, to see Seth here. Um, I liked the fact that as well, um, he goes, oh, I need something else from you. Uh, you've got a lot of that. Um, because he also gets a bone, which, uh, he uses then to craft this new string bridge for the guitar. Um, and I really enjoyed this. Um, you know, one of our questions was about some of the, um, the different animals

[00:22:22] that had been carved from wood by Joel. So, um, here we see Joel in action crafting this new, um, string bridge for the, the guitar from the bone, cleaning up, uh, the guitar as well as personalizing the guitar with the carving of a moth, um, into, uh, in, into the, the, the arm of the guitar. So I just, I thought, I thought this was really nicely done. Um, and then you have it kind of being interrupted, um,

[00:22:52] with Ellie coming in, uh, in pain because she's burnt her arms because again, nice little nod backwards and she just wants to wear short sleeves again. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, you know, the, the scenes are so good. You can see the love, um, of Joel here where he's, uh, refurbishing the guitar. He can, you know, all of the time he's putting into it. He wouldn't do that for anybody else. We know Joel Miller is not a person that, um, does anything for anybody else at all. Really? He does, he does everything for himself

[00:23:22] until his heart was opened by Ellie. And here he is finally when they've settled down, he's putting in all of this work for this beautiful birthday gift for her. Uh, I love that. And, you know, the fact they just took some time to watch him refurbish the guitar. I think it was a beautiful choice. Uh, absolutely loved watching it. And then, yeah, when Tommy comes back in with Ellie and her burnt arm, um, I love that she's completely out of it. She's, she's been put on painkillers, pain meds to take care of the pain that she's put herself through. But the way she describes it

[00:23:52] where she was standing over a hot pot and then kind of just made this decision and then just did it, you know, how did this happen? Well, I said I was going to do it and then I did it. That's basically how it happened. Smells like, yes. Yes. And the reason she's doing it is because for the entirety of her life, since she got bitten at 13 years old, she's had to cover up her arm in case somebody saw this bite mark and killed her because instantly you would think if someone's bitten, they're going to turn and no matter what they say to you, they're usually dead before

[00:24:21] they get any words out at all. So Ellie's gone through her entire life for the last two or three years having to hide this so that nobody questions her. And now she's burning her arm to try and cover up that, that scar that she has, that mark that she has. Yeah. No, absolutely. I do like that it comes back a bit later where he says, you know, he understands why she did it in the end. Exactly. So that, that was kind of a nice little sort of moment there as well. And this is what I meant back at the start of this. This continues throughout each of the years. Ellie is focused on something

[00:24:50] else and Joel's not aware of it. Joel, Joel and herself haven't sat down to talk about how she feels with the bite in her arm. She's just gone and done it without talking to him. So in this year, this was, this is what she was focused on. Beautiful Guitar and not a great birthday cake, but a birthday cake all the same. Well, I love, I mean, the birthday cake's great. It's happy 15th birthday, Eli. I love that they say, I hope, um, Seth bakes better than he spells

[00:25:19] as he goes to get a knife, but Ellie's just dug into the cake straight off with her hands. And she's like, oh, he does. Um, and he gets the guitar for her as well. It's a little reference to her digging into the cake. It's a little reference to when they first went to Jackson Hole and she was literally throwing all the food into her mouth, not using any utensils at all. And they were saying she just ate like a wildling, basically. Uh, and here she is two months later still, uh, going in with her hands for food rather than waiting for a knife and fork.

[00:25:49] I mean, so, and then she gets a guitar, the promise of lessons. But, um, I have to say, I do like the, this kind of neck sequence for a number of reasons where she asks Joel for a tune because I like his awkwardness where it's like, you know, he kind of, he's the person that does it privately more than anything else. He might do a bit of around the campfire action with it, but he, you know, the guitar is this personal instrument for him to, to,

[00:26:17] to go through the songs that he likes. But I just, I'm there then going, I know she's, you know, as he reels off Pearl Jam's Future Days and she goes, that didn't suck. It was lovely. Absolutely. But I was just there, but why not happy birthday? Yeah. Like it's her birthday and whilst it didn't suck, it's quite the party kill, um, like that. So, I know it's a beautiful moment for the tune. It is.

[00:26:47] I'm not saying it's not and I love the scene, but the sort of, my mischievous side, of myself was like, why don't you just do happy birthday? I know. You know, and then I was like, well, we're going to party after that. Gee. Might go and burn my other arm after that. No, no. I think it's an absolutely beautiful song and it is all about the lyrics. It's all about what Joe, what's in Joel's heart that he's singing through his voice and singing through the guitar. You know, we, we,

[00:27:16] I can't remember whether we know from the game or whether we know from the show that Joel had said that what he'd always wanted to do with his life was to become a singer. Um, he wanted to be in a band and he wanted to be a singer. He knows how to play guitar really well. So, uh, that's always been something he was interested in. Yeah. And this song is about, you know, him being able to see the future days together, just the two of them. Now that they're settled down, have their own home, he's singing this song to her about the fact that he can see a future together. It wasn't that long ago that Joel was burning the body of, of a child.

[00:27:46] Absolutely. Come into town, he'd lost all connection with humanity. He then lost everybody that he loved and the only person left with him was Ellie and then he killed for her. So, now he's settled in a town with a house and can see the future days with her. I think it's a beautiful moment where he's just channeling that love, uh, directly out through the guitar with, with Ellie. It's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really interesting to say that, you know, the fixation is on Ellie because in the town is his, his brother and it, it kind of plays

[00:28:15] to that conversation that he has with Tommy's wife a bit later on, um, which we don't see originally in season one so that, you know, this is another perspective, point of view during that time at the dance on New Year's Eve where she's kind of trying to remind him that you're our family as well. Yeah, exactly. You know, we're family. Well, that bit was closing out the conversation that Maria had with him in episode one of this season where Maria said he was a refugee just like all the people

[00:28:45] he's trying to keep out of Jackson Hole because he doesn't feel they can build the town out quickly enough and Maria's telling him, but you're one of our family. We will be, maybe I misspoke, I didn't mean to say something bad. We will always be here if you need us. And at that point she's comforting because of the separation from Ellie as well at that stage. But it is great to have those kind of pieces of conversations and pieces of relationships tied up as it goes on. But that's the first birthday that we see, Ellie's 15th birthday.

[00:29:14] Let's go on to probably my favorite, I think, one year later, point number two, one year later, her 16th birthday, the sweet 16th birthday, John. Yeah, again, just really good and I mean, certainly the trip to the museum, the dinosaur statue, the whole space capsule, all straight out of the game. They do stumble upon this in the games. Well, it's exactly the same. It's Joel brings her here. Joel has kept this

[00:29:44] a secret from her, found it, and decided these are things that he wants to give her as a celebration of her 16th birthday. You know, a big thing in America. Actually, the 16th birthday tends to be bigger than an 18th birthday in the US. So he wants to do something really special for her. So it's really nice. I mean, it still evokes happy times here and what he will do for Ellie as well. You know, in a different way, it points to what

[00:30:13] he will do. You know, the cassette tape that he gives her to help with the experience. It's fabulous. You don't want to know what I had to do to trade to get that. But equally, you know, there is a memory triggered in this moment as well for Ellie that is then effectively going to bring them down the slope, you know, into the trough from this high of her 16th birthday, which is really, really good.

[00:30:43] Like, I really just like the thing of where he says, do you want to go into space and gets into that, you know, opens up the hatch and he goes, well, you're going to need a helmet. Pick one. Yeah. Because when he went and picked up the rock, I was like, what's he doing? But it's to smash the glass so she can pick one. So I just thought, I like that. I like that sort of slight displacement of what he means, I guess. Really, I liked it a lot.

[00:31:11] I love the fact then that you get brought into Ellie's imagination and with the cassette player, the Walkman, playing the countdown from the NASA mission as, you know, you go to blast off and it's just so well done where you get lost in her imagination. In a sense,

[00:31:41] this almost idea of childlike imagination of what it's like to pretend to be going into space except she's in a real rocket capsule and you've got the audio of NASA's countdown and it's just really, really so well kind of just done. I mean, I was kind of beaming thinking this is such a cool present. It would be great to get something like that.

[00:32:11] Hint, hint, Derek. It just feels so real and it reminds me of my childhood memories of the exploration of space that you kind of were told about through NASA and all that. So it was really, really good. Absolutely. And again, this is just another build on Joel's love for Ellie. You know, this is another year on. They spent another year living together and we learned in season one about Ellie's love for space. She loves comic books that are set in space.

[00:32:41] That's the thing that she collected all the time. We know that she loves Sally Ride. That's the person that she loves most and Sally Ride was an astronaut. So Joel's built out a picture of her over the course of this year of all the things she absolutely loves and is taking her to this place which has all of those things and making it really special even though it's very unlikely that humans in this world will ever get back to go to space again. He wants to give her this kind of experience and I think is just fabulously put on screen. You know, there's a balance

[00:33:10] between the two things as well. In the background Ellie's talking to him about why can't she get out on patrol? She's really strong. She's able to fight like she was when the two of them were out on their own. On her 16th birthday she's asking Joel for the present of being allowed to go out on patrol with a gun and go out and take care of infected and Joel's able to clamp all that back down and put her into her special place where she's able to use her imagination to go out into space. That's so cool that he's able to do that

[00:33:40] and get her back to that childhood wonder exactly as you say, John. I think that's really cool. I do like the awkward conversation as well as they go there you know where Joel thinks that Jesse and Ellie are an item and they've got something going for one another and he says what about the birds and the bees and you mean what? The dicks and vaginas? It's just so so good he's like what the F?

[00:34:08] It's just that stumble and that turnaround that look that he gives when he hears that coming out of her mouth. I love that he says I've seen the way you look at Jesse I know there's something between the two of you I can tell these things and Ellie just kind of looks at him going you have no idea what you're talking about I promise you I won't get pregnant if you allow me to train with Jesse because she knows exactly who she is she knows she's a lesbian she knows she has no interest in Jesse at all and she knows that Joel can't see a thing even though he's pretending that he can and that's another point

[00:34:38] you know that part of her life it's just cloudy for Joel yeah she's never talked about it yeah she's never talked about the death of Riley and the fact that she had to kill her first girlfriend the first person that she kissed that she had to kill her she's never told Joel that so while he might be getting to know her really well and they are really really close in these moments there are bits that are separating them and you mentioned it already John as they go home from this wonderful trip to the museum Ellie's beaming she's really delighted by herself

[00:35:08] but then she sees fireflies over to her left and suddenly stops and goes very quiet and Joel does notice it but she doesn't say anything about it but it is that moment of seeing fireflies and remembering a little bit what happened in Salt Lake City to the fireflies and not knowing what happened I suppose absolutely and it's a great little sort of pause there as she that kind of moment is triggered with seeing the fireflies so yeah really good should we get

[00:35:38] on to the 17th birthday yeah absolutely let's get on to another year on John yes it's point three and it's another year later on Ellie's 17th birthday and I think what's interesting here is we have this growing pain situation and ultimately where you have Joel rocking back to their house with a cake like he had done two years previously you know

[00:36:06] but stumbling into something very very different and it's this growing pain this idea for independence and sort of moving apart because you're growing up you have your own ideas your own interests and so on or you're doing your own thing ultimately and here I love the fact that you know in the shock of it all that Joel is kind of like

[00:36:35] you did all the teenage things at once you know drugs tattoo experimenting with girls sex you know all this all happening at once and it's kind of like the tsunami has rocked his world that it's not this sweet innocent Ellie that reminds him of the daughter that he's lost she is frozen in time in his memory at that age Ellie is dynamic because she's

[00:37:05] getting older and older and again I think it's to the point of the birthday motif it's like this is no longer Sarah from season one but that's what's frozen in the memory of what Sarah was and it's really interesting that you bring Sarah up because in that first episode it was Joel's birthday and he was supposed to be taking time off he said he would definitely be home at a certain time to be with Sarah to bring home cake with him that was his job he never brought home the cake

[00:37:35] to her so here he is taking time off work the reason why Ellie is disturbed at this moment is because he's supposed to be out on patrol and he skipped patrol to have a surprise birthday with Ellie I absolutely love this fight because it's probably the fight that I had with my parents around this age as well where the expectation of Joel is so much different to Ellie's actual life the fact that he even says to her you're experimenting with girls again we know Ellie's long since known who she is she knows

[00:38:04] she's a lesbian she has had girlfriends before she's not experimenting she's fooling around just like anybody else would be just happens to be with a person of the same sex so that's the instant pushback and then you have that phrase the parents around the world say you're living under my roof this is my house these are my rules and Ellie's pushback and that is fantastic in this situation where it's like no it's not it's our house they gave us this house you've done nothing for it both of us have an equal

[00:38:33] right to set the rules in this place and there's a really interesting sort of way an attack it's like you know we were given this by the community this is not yours this is ours and you've done nothing you didn't you know never bought this and so on it's also as well you know immediately after Cass has left and all that and she goes you know she runs through I'm sorry I did that except

[00:39:03] I'm not like you want me to say that but I'm not sorry for this so you've got to change your viewpoint here as to why you're angry and what you will permit exactly Ellie of course is pushing boundaries that of course Jill should be pretty angry about her smoking weed in the house you know that's probably not something that he's going to put up with anyway but they do need to work together and again this is something really interesting when they were on the road together and it was Ellie and Joel

[00:39:33] side by side there were moments that they became partners where they worked together and they were watching each other's backs the whole time they were on the road like remember back in season one Ellie had to save Joel's life Joel wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for Ellie she had that responsibility of taking care of him until he got well again and here she is being treated like a child when she feels she should be able to be the partner of Joel at this stage we have that conversation sort of explicitly stated later on

[00:40:04] when Joel goes to rescue Eugene so it's a really good moment but as a result of all this Ellie sees that natural progression well it's time for me to get a place of my own which because the garage is so bloody huge it can be the garage I love that she tries to move out in the middle of the night and it's pouring down as well yeah exactly like Joel kind of going right okay just get the mattress inside there's no point in going outside there's no heating out there it's raining outside

[00:40:34] so it's just the absolute frustration of Ellie thinking that this person is trying to control everything that she does she's trying to push back against it but they do have a conversation and then Joel kind of realises maybe maybe I should give her her own space maybe I should set up the garage so that she can move out there yeah and I just like think you know is this the little bit better than me element you know where he does sort of just allow her that space you know that's what he permits I know in the first

[00:41:03] episode there is that talk that well I did that and you know maybe it was too much too soon but in this moment you know he does through that conversation go yes maybe you do need but let me fix that up you know so that you've got water heat light because at the moment it doesn't and so I do kind of like that that conversation yeah and the other thing that comes out over this is that the tattoo that Kat is drawing on her is of a

[00:41:33] moth yeah and he gradually gets the meaning of that moth and with the conversation with Gail which again the psychologist which is just superb it absolutely is like Catherine O'Hara is just so fantastic and I wonder how long she spent on set because she gets you know a moment here and there each episode you know she gets a couple of minutes here and there but I love how they drop her in you know I love that in last episode we had Tommy or the episode before we had Tommy walking up to her while she was at the baseball game

[00:42:03] and sitting down beside her having a beer getting some psychotherapy from her here we have her reading her book in the coffee shop and Joel walks up to her going do you know anything about moths about you know dream theory about moths is it you know is it about rebirth is it about moving on and changing he's like no no no if you believe in that crap like the stupider members of my kind of medical profession yeah if you believe in that kind of crap well then moth means death so yeah but I

[00:42:33] like that there is the confusion here so his kind of understanding dreams 101 is that it's actually a symbol of change metamorphosis and growth and and she's like well no that's a butterfly yeah a moth and is a symbol of death yeah of course if you believe in that shit effectively yeah so I like that I do also like the initial

[00:43:02] sort of introduction there in the coffee shop where he comes up to her straight out the blue and she's like do I have a doctor in sign around my neck Lucy from peanuts yeah like so really good but ultimately what he learns here then you know it's a darker meaning than what he thought it was yeah and for him it is about death that she you know not growth and change yeah absolutely and

[00:43:31] if you saw the stuff that Ellie's packing up some of her drawings when she's packing them up in her room and one of the drawings that she has or one of the pages of drawings of moths written on that is you have a greater purpose you know and that's something that plays out later on when she has her conversation with Joel you know she believes that she could have had a greater purpose maybe she should have died at some point when she got bitten back in the past so what's her greater purpose is kind of the thing she's struggling with and I guess a lot of people struggle with that during their teenage years as well you know

[00:44:01] what is my purpose what am I here for as well so that's what Ellie's going through yeah absolutely and let's get on to our fourth point two years later this time we have Ellie's 19th birthday yeah it seems like that move out of the garage has helped Ellie and Joel's relationship she has her own space now she's not seeing as much as she was in the past really but it does open here with Ellie thinking about

[00:44:31] Salt Lake City once again this is now five years on from Salt Lake City yeah absolutely like she wants to understand it and she's writing down her thoughts she's writing out the questions that she's wanting to understand from that moment in Salt Lake City yeah and which in that moment is interrupted by Joel knocking on the door for this time on her 19th birthday she has taken this advice of patients and so on

[00:45:01] and training to go on their first patrol together I do like the moment those two on the road in a sense out on their own yeah and he asks if they can do more stuff like this because it's like before you know it's almost like a nostalgia yeah absolutely to where they were sort of on the road fighting for their life day in day out and that

[00:45:30] camaraderie that happens as a result of that and that by becoming sedentary now he's that divergence that drifting apart he feels that possibly more acutely than than Ellie so yeah yeah and I kind of get in the writing itself as well that you know it's not explicitly said but we've said it it's been three years since Ellie asked to go out on patrol yeah

[00:46:00] and she's not been allowed by Joel she's been prevented from going out on patrol yet five years ago she was his partner right there on the road the two of them side by side two of them had each other's backs two of them protecting each other on the road and he's there going oh wouldn't it be great if we could do this more often and Ellie's probably going but I've wanted to do this the whole time and now you're telling me it's okay because you're getting old and because you've been sitting at home on your own or you've been going out on patrol with other people that you don't like and now you're allowing me to come out here so she is

[00:46:30] probably going yes finally I'm allowed to go out and patrol she's ignoring all of his commands like he's basically brought her on this simple loop out of the town and back in again even though she's faced off against sometimes hundreds of infections before but he's taking on the simple road saying you know get your binoculars out and look over there and see if you can see all of the points check out your corners all that kind of stuff and Ellie's just ignoring everything he's saying kind of going I know all this stuff you know she's very cocky of course as well

[00:47:00] which always comes across but I do like that even though they don't say it Ellie is probably going yeah I know this because we did it we did it five years ago I know it's nostalgic for you but it's not for me I should be I should have been out here years ago when I asked you yeah no exactly it's just kind of so well done and then you know you get that moment of Fisher you know that turning point where you have the radio message

[00:47:29] from HQ talking about another patrol that's headed by Adam and Eugene in difficulty that have been pinned down from the infected and you have Joel saying Ellie you go back to Jackson I'm going off to see if they're all right and she's like you know this is where she says no I'm not your kid Joel I'm your effing partner we stick together or we don't do it it is that thing of

[00:47:58] in a sense as he's settled down he's infantilized her again to the memory of what Sarah was rather than as you say the fact that she was as much a part of them surviving to get to Jackson as he was so it's just a really sort of that great hinge point really here that happens with them coming across the decimation ultimately of Eugene

[00:48:27] and Adam's patrol group yeah I love how this is they leave the horses behind the two of them are creeping up going what does Joel say you're my back and I'm yours where the two of them are going back to back effectively covering all the points as they get there and then out of the distance I think I wrote a 10 as Adam exits stage left dragged by horse I presume that was Adam face down as well it's really eerie because it comes out of the mist

[00:48:57] it almost felt headless horseman type of thing and not only that it's just because when you're in a forest the clicking certainly where it's echoey so that sort of distant roaring of the infected that they hear as well is really eerie it's just so well done it's so atmospheric in terms of you know you're not going to come across a great situation and whilst they don't really linger

[00:49:27] on any of the other dead bodies that much you know you do see them sort of within the margins of the shot but you just see Eugene up against the tree and when asked how he is has he been bit he's like he has and it leads to this moment where Joel just goes straight to obey if you've

[00:49:57] been bitten and like we saw with the big attack on Jackson that means essentially you're going to get put down and that's what he is sort of ramping up to do here to Eugene but Ellie because of Eugene's plea that he just wants to see Gale again you know please just take me to the outskirts of Jackson so I can see her and speak to her she there going put out your hands count to ten slowly he's not shaking there's

[00:50:26] time there is this moment from Marlene back in Fedra back in episode one of season one as well that's what Ellie would have learnt back in those times and as a result of that we can grant him his dying quich if we're going to have to kill him we can let him see his wife for that one last time and I think what I love about this as well is just that Eugene knows his fate he absolutely knows he's going to die

[00:50:56] when Joel's questioning are there any more infected out there and he says other than me no I'm the only infected here I know I'm going to die and then Ellie goes off to get the horses making Joel promise to her he will keep Eugene Skirti Jackson to meet up with Gale so that he can say his goodbyes and Ellie makes Joel promise to her that he will keep him alive they go through the plan and we'll tie him up and we'll bring him

[00:51:26] back behind the horses and you have Ellie just pleading with him for him to promise and he does he tells her to get the horses and then you have this moment where I just love the fact that it comes out from the forest into a clearing you've got this lake and the mountain vista and you have

[00:51:56] Eugene saying oh it's so beautiful and then it's like oh this is my final resting point in a place that it's beauty before the beast in effect of being put down executed but I do like that part of this conversation is not just he wants to speak to Gail for the last time but he wants to hear what she has to say to him

[00:52:26] whilst he can still remember and comprehend it he wants the last thing to see to be the face of his wife and he wants to hear her final comforting words to him because he is terrified this is the whole thing about everybody's story mattering you know the character here Eugene is played by Joey Pantoliano a very well-known actress and so much stuff and the reason why you get someone with that much experience in there to play a role that's only on screen for a

[00:53:05] couple of lived experience of being an older person with a wife where they've spent their entire lives together and it's in every margin of every word that he says that he just wants to see his wife's face one more time and get her comforting words for him it's just a beautiful moment and you can tell that Joel's heart is breaking but he has to do it in his mind that is the protocol that's what he agreed to by being in Jackson and if they had gotten too close and Gale had gotten bitten and many

[00:53:35] people had died it was all Joel's fault that's the way he tension between no these are the rules I'm really sorry and it

[00:54:05] is hurting Joel but he has the hard heart of having done this plenty of times I mean as you say season one he was putting people who had been killed into the fire you know so he from the first season yeah absolutely one of the things I also loved about the staging of the scene is as the camera is looking

[00:54:34] from behind the trees we don't see Joel body of Eugene behind the two horses just like Joel's will be in a couple of months time they go back

[00:55:04] and he's trying to explain to Ellie well we're not going to of course yeah no absolutely wished he could say goodbye to you in person he wasn't scared and everything

[00:55:34] to sort of buffer Gail from the reality of the death of her husband you just have Ellie coming straight out and contradicting everything that Joel says and saying he promised us both me and Eugene you know that he would come back to see you and he shot him in the head you know and she mailed to him

[00:56:04] you swore and this is the kickoff point this is you know it's that realization that the same expression the same kind of vibe or feel or gut feeling or whatever around Joel promising something to be true or something that he would hold to be true keep true ends off not being true and he goes against it and that's the moment that Ellie

[00:56:34] knows yeah that's the moment that Ellie absolutely knows that what happened in Salt Lake City is completely different to what he swore to her actually happened all of the questions that she had at the start of this this day the 19th birthday all the questions she had she's right to have them because none of it was true and I think what's really like this whole thing is really really difficult to watch as well because you have Gail hugging into Joel because of what he said to her and then recoiling when you have

[00:57:03] Ellie's sort of interjection and contradiction of everything Joel still said it she slaps him it goes back to that moment earlier in the season of her saying to him that she hates him and the reason why exactly and even though you know with time not to say that she's necessarily forgiven him but she knows that it was the protocol of Jackson she does and what she's saying is if he had come back and done what Eugene had said given him an opportunity to talk to his wife and then even if

[00:57:33] Joel had shot Eugene in front of Gail when they came back to Jackson I think Gail would have been okay with that because she knows the protocol but promising her husband that he'd bring her back and then shooting him in the head and promising Ellie all those things are just wrong to her mind but it's interesting that Ellie instantly flips on Joel she doesn't want anybody else to go through the questioning that she's gone through for these five years either

[00:58:03] so it's not really for Gail's benefit it is for her she is absolutely on fire here with the idea that Joel has lied to her for this long and she gave him those multiple opportunities if you remember back to season one and the reason why it was shown at the beginning of season two as the opening for this season she gave him multiple opportunities to tell her what really happened and to swear to her that what he's telling her is the truth and he did and when he eventually swore to her when he eventually said

[00:58:32] everything behind him said to her I swear what I'm telling you is the truth Ellie went well okay then as long as you swear then whatever questions I have I'll put them to the back of my mind yeah but here she is now and it's been confirmed to her that he's been lying to her all of these years he's been trying to make this beautiful life for the two of them been trying to make these great birthdays for her every year and been trying to keep her like his little baby girl the whole time yes underneath it all he's been lying to her about about the situation

[00:59:01] and that's it for Ellie and Joel for nine months yeah let's go on to our final point point five nine months later New Year's Eve and the final confrontation between Joel and Ellie yeah no absolutely you know I think this is really sort of you know it's the bittersweet sort of start of reconciliation in that nick of time but ultimately doomed given what happens

[00:59:31] on New Year's Day but you know I like that I like the fact that that scene where she comes back from the New Year's Eve party and he's on the veranda sort of playing the guitar they then comes from his position and she comes back to effectively confront him on the questions that she's got that we saw her

[01:00:00] jotting down on her 19th birthday and I love the fact that it's done effectively with the silence of Joel and I mean it's just such an emotionally charged scene like the two of them just knock it out of the park in terms of just how they portray this it's almost like Joel starts to do like small talk around Dina

[01:00:30] and she's like she just pushes back she kind of you know she recognises this and she's like you know you're such an a-hole in this moment and she kind of brings it back to really the reason why she's there you know you lied to me and you know I think I know and I've known all the time but this is your last chance you know what happened with the fireflies and you know she goes through these series of questions around

[01:01:00] were there other immune people there and you know he shakes his head were there raiders actually attacking the hospital and he shakes his head you know could they have made a cure and he nods you know and she says did you and she doesn't even ask the full question and he nods and she's like and Marlene and he nods you see just in that moment she's devastated with what

[01:01:30] she in her heart of hearts knew but it is now being confirmed to her and like this was just so so powerful and to the point of you know the moth you know Joel's kind of coming back you know you would have died and you know I'd do all over again you know and he says because she goes because you're selfish and he's because I love you but it's

[01:01:59] also just the fact that she comes back with you took it but also everyone has lost the cure and I just like that you know unbeknownst to Ellie that's a realisation that her and Abby have

[01:02:29] you know and that a cure was lost but Abby's known it for much longer it's something that Nora refers back to her when she realises you're the immune girl yes you know this notion that it's real that it was this real possibility that it's a possibility absolutely yeah yeah and I think in this situation it is Joel going he knows or at least he knew in his mind when he took the action he took that it's a very real possibility they could have made a cure but she would have been dead and you know

[01:02:59] we've talked about this conversation back and forth would it be possible is it possible you know in that particular situation would they have been able to create a cure out of Ellie well it's not about the rational thought as to whether it could be possible and the scientific improbability of it happening it's about the fact that Joel made his decision knowing in the room that someone that he has been told can make a cure he chooses to kill that person and kill everybody else around them just to save Ellie's life and says to her he would do it again no matter what even if

[01:03:29] he has to pay the price which is she will cut herself off from him at least she's alive and he has kept her that way that's what he says it's an amazing distillation of everything that's been going on in their relationship over the course of the years and over the course of the two seasons it's fabulous it's phenomenal I love as well if you understand one day when you have one of your own I hope you do a little better than me to me

[01:03:59] that distillation of both echoing his dad's comments to him to also implicitly that this has all happened because I lost my daughter as well yeah you know that's another huge driver here as a father of a kid but in this case a daughter

[01:04:29] very much like you who never got to Ellie's age as well you know and I you know and I think just the response then from Ellie again it's just it's such great writing it's like you know I don't think I can forgive you for this and there's just that pause and it pans to you know Joel's face and I mean Pedro Pascal like I don't know he must have chucked Vic a vapor rub in his eyes the amount of like welling up he's doing

[01:04:58] so phenomenal and but I just like that little pause that focus on him and then she says but I'd like to try it's like it's like an element of hope in a doomed situation yeah that I now know the truth I've probably known it for some time you're a douchebag an a-hole all that kind of stuff you're selfish yeah can forgive you because forgiveness requires some level

[01:05:28] of understanding it requires that empathy but I'm willing to give it a go and let's see how we get on and if you remember the follow-up to this conversation actually happened in episode two when Ellie's woken up by Jesse to go out and patrol the next day after the New Year's party and after everything that happened and all Jesse had seen was Joel and herself had a massive fight in front of the whole town and Ellie's telling him well sometimes that happens but I think we're on the path to being better again and all Ellie wanted to do was go out on patrol with Joel that day so this

[01:05:58] is the moment of hope between the two of them but also more than that this is the moment where Ellie reveals that she has grown into an adult over all of those years when Joel has just wanted her to stay the same little girl that he's there to protect she's become an

[01:06:40] adult known at that moment I think it's also it confirms when Ellie says to Nora I know I know what he did effectively he's told me through a series of shakes and nods and I do think that's what I really like about this story from The Last of Us there's no world breaking revelation in the story the way that it's told there's no moment where you go

[01:07:10] oh my god the big cliffhanger this week is that Joel tells Ellie something that she never knew happened well no she knew it happened but she's willing to forgive him for it that's the big revelation that she's grown to a point where even when he tells her the worst thing that happened he's told her and that in itself has built a bridge with her but the big moment of the story is she can't continue to reconnect with this person that she loves because it was all taken away by Abby yeah yeah yeah and then the episode ends really cutting to present

[01:07:40] day in Seattle with her and the rain returning to the theatre after whatever happened with Nora we saw last week that she was going to get whatever information she was going to get out of Nora by torturing her and now we can I guess next week we'll see what happened we'll find out what information she got from Nora but this has all led to explaining why Ellie is on such a vendetta against Abby yeah it's nice in a sense that it ends back in Seattle after this

[01:08:07] to be honest probably needed that because it was just so emotionally draining in terms of this crescendo of emotions and I think you know it's as you say it's it's a lesson in writing about complex situations and characters and relationships and yeah sometimes that's overlooked and

[01:08:38] this is done in a way that is really the complexities of it and I think with the flashback at the start you know it's just adding and layering in new elements exactly which is great yeah yeah any notes about the episode John anything else we hadn't mentioned that you want to pull out and talk about no just to say that Tommy's nephew calls him Mr. Grumpy Uncle Grumpy so goodnight Uncle Grumpy I like that little touch there

[01:09:07] my nephews might call me that as well I like that little touch there no I don't think I do actually I probably missed a ton of stuff but I mean I do think it was really just so so well done yeah yeah I had just a couple of little things that I wanted to mention I love that moment in the space module or space capsule the tear that that comes down Pedro Pascal's face when he realizes he's done something even more special than he thinks he's done

[01:09:36] how proud he is in that moment with Ellie I think it's just absolutely beautifully captured and then one other thing that I noticed on my second watch I'm wondering if the decision that Joel made to kill Eugene which isn't the point of the episode of course but he makes a decision to kill Eugene on the way home I think it's just when Eugene is walking in front of him and says they make you cold the cordyceps make you cold and then goes which way do I go from here it's almost like the cordyceps are starting

[01:10:06] to infect his brain as we know that's how the cordyceps take over they go through the human brain Eugene is someone that's been here in that moment when Eugene is saying which way do I go and Joel says go to the right it's almost like Joel has made a decision going oh that's a sign he's already turning I'm going to send him down here

[01:10:36] kill him before anything bad happens I Eugene alive he doesn't he doesn't go out of his way to keep Eugene alive but he could have killed him a couple of seconds after Ellie left if that's all he was waiting for was just ready to go but

[01:11:23] surprises out of five the dinosaur yeah absolutely and I just I love this from top to tail and even though it was a toughie I think it's a real tour de force of exploring this relationship and I loved as well how the relationship just goes through the generations back to Joel and Tommy as kids in

[01:11:53] what's led Joel on this path to lie and so on to the point where he is confronted to tell the truth in silence so that Ellie doesn't hear him say it it's just so interesting so many great performances here in particular Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey but

[01:12:23] also I think Eugene here played by Joey Pantoliano and Gail played by Catherine O'Hara just so well done real moments of tension real moments of confrontation of strife and I like how it goes from these good times of happy birthday kiddo happy times through to just this gradual divergence

[01:12:52] and fracture and with the death of Eugene but the death of a promise that she realizes is part of Joel's makeup in a sense and just that return to hopefulness at the end absolutely and the return to hopefulness because I just think it's a real intricate thing of like the forgiveness side of it I think this idea of the step

[01:13:22] by step that you do a little better than me and all those things are just really ignored a lot of the time and it actually adds a huge amount of complexity to how people behave and why they do certain things and they're not the perfect human being that is like this that and the other but they are trying and they might not be perfect but this leads them to

[01:13:52] sometimes hurt the people that they do love because of how they're trying to navigate their own way through their own feelings life society whatever it really interesting to hear a character say I don't know if I can but I'm willing to try because it is

[01:14:23] you know I think from my side my parents always said we'll try and try again but if you can't do it fine but at least you've tried exactly you know and so I think unlike stupid Yoda who there is no try yeah but that's Yoda I've never liked that character and so I think you know shock revelation and I think you know it's just a really interesting kind of rule

[01:14:53] I guess that is I just don't hear more of I guess in shows like this it's just you know she kills him it would be the Joel gets killed by her because she can't deal with it or just gets really angry and never speaks to him again in the end it's Abby that's killed him and that's again that's just the tragedy of this and the tragedy of their relationship of what's come before with him and his father but also with what happens to his daughter Sarah and ultimately what

[01:15:22] happens once this reconciliation this hope is seeded is the tragedy so yeah absolutely loved this episode from performances the writing the direction five barney birthday surprises out of five fantastic oh after that John I definitely need a drink let's get down to the world's end pub quiz for our penultimate

[01:15:52] question for the season it certainly is fellow quizzes and fellow survivors yes and we are on the penultimate episode and so we're on to question number six which is what two flavors of cake does Joel get for Ellie's 15th and 17th birthdays yes fantastic an easy question we needed an easy question for this one I think so so for

[01:16:25] what we saw on screen and what was mentioned on screen what two flavors of cake does Joel get for Ellie's 15th and 17th birthdays fantastic that's your sixth question of seven next week you'll get the seven question after that send us in your correct answers to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com and you could be in with a chance of getting a copy of The Last Of Us Part 2 on PC or PlayStation or an

[01:16:55] looking forward to hearing your answers yes good luck fellow quizzers and fellow survivors but moving on from the world's end pub quiz we move to our feedback first up on email we have John Daniel who says hello survivors I have to confess this might be the first post apocalyptic show I've given a real chance I been missing

[01:17:25] out this show is a master class in characters and storytelling I think the single tear going down Joel's face in the space capsule says it all

[01:17:55] so I'm not expecting much in the way of resolution in the finale but I'm certain it will be gut wrenching see you next week John from Chicago excellent John great to get your thoughts on this show and this episode and I could not agree with you more so much love so much heart break yeah absolutely you know we know we're not going to get the entire story resolved next week but that

[01:18:24] doesn't mean there isn't going to be something big happening at the end of next week I feel like it might be a big cliffhanger about what happens or a big story moment before it we we will turn up for a third

[01:18:54] season but yeah it's been an amazing show it's interesting there's the first post apocalyptic show I think I've been such yeah I do yeah it's just it's just the idea of

[01:19:24] taking society away and seeing what people are like without all the trappings of the day to day life is a kiss and it's great that they had

[01:19:54] Eli realize it was a lie through the Eugene situation rather than by having them go back to Salt Lake that's a really good point you know having Ellie go back to I love that you called her Eli there as well but having Ellie go back to Salt Lake City and investigate the situation would be a standard way of doing it wouldn't it in some of their shows she go back and find remnants of the battle that went on and find out that all the bullets came from Joel's gun or something that would be a

[01:20:33] way to do it no definitely and Philippe I totally agree museum scene was a chef's kiss I think the veranda scene was a chef's kiss as well just for different reasons and just sort of at those different ends you know or towards those different ends of the spectrum of you know sheer happiness to sheer just heartbreak so yeah I think

[01:21:04] this absolutely and of course these are the final scenes that Pedro Pascal would have filmed for the show as well I think in behind the scenes stuff that we watched we saw him saying goodbye to the crew and the people behind the scenes in the museum so it looks like they filmed that museum scene as one of the final times that Pedro Pascal was with the group so at least they left with

[01:21:34] do all of those really gut wrenching scenes as his final scenes yeah definitely great stuff thanks Felipe yeah thanks Felipe thanks so much if you want to send your feedback to us you can email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or pop on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries we'll be doing one more episode of course on The Last of Us Last of Us season 2 episode 7 next week and we will be of course wrapping up the season as well so if you haven't got any thoughts to us throughout the season so far

[01:22:04] we'd love to hear from you for that finale wrap up episode as well but thanks so much again for joining us for this episode we'll speak to you again next week yes thank you so much fellow survivors for joining us for this penultimate podcast on the penultimate episode of The Last of Us season 2 but until next time of course keep watching keep listening and of course keep surviving that didn't suck goodnight Uncle Grumpies bye bye