[00:00:00] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're talking about the new season of What If, Season 3, Episode 4, What If Howard the Duck Got Hitched.

[00:00:11] What?!

[00:00:11] Oh my gosh, Captain Mohawk saved our baby!

[00:00:15] Sorry to spoil y'all's breakfast, folks!

[00:00:18] But I was hoping to grab a little something to go.

[00:00:21] Ta-ta!

[00:00:21] What the fuck? Captain Mohawk stole our baby!

[00:00:24] Uh, no, no, no! Hi, space pirates!

[00:00:27] What are you kidding for? Come on, duck!

[00:00:28] Um!

[00:00:50] Happy continuing holidays, fellow Defenders!

[00:00:54] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're talking about Season 3, Episode 4 of What If?

[00:01:01] What if Howard the Duck got hitched?

[00:01:04] I am one of your duck-hating podcast hosts, John.

[00:01:11] Derek in. I'm one of your other hosts, Derek.

[00:01:14] Are you duck-hating?

[00:01:15] I kind of really felt like Crispy Duck.

[00:01:18] I wanted to kind of take him and season him and hang him up for like two weeks and then have Crispy Duck.

[00:01:24] You set out your stall up front of the episode here.

[00:01:27] Yeah.

[00:01:27] Like, never been a fan.

[00:01:29] Kind of wanted to like it, to be in with the cool kids.

[00:01:32] Uh, realized maybe I'm just getting old.

[00:01:34] Yeah.

[00:01:35] So it dated me a bit and I was like, oh, I hate you even more now, Howard.

[00:01:39] And so I was having an existential crisis whilst watching this weird episode of a character that I didn't particularly like and has probably ruined one of the characters I really do like, which is Darcy.

[00:01:53] Oh dear.

[00:01:54] Of all the people Darcy could have gotten hitched to, I was hoping it would be an Asgardian rather than Howard the Duck.

[00:02:01] And don't get me talking about whether I'm feeling way too serious about an episode that should have been fun and lighthearted, but I just didn't get it.

[00:02:10] Right.

[00:02:11] Okay.

[00:02:11] Didn't get it.

[00:02:12] It was supposed to be fun and lighthearted.

[00:02:15] It just annoyed.

[00:02:15] I think, I think there was just a moment for me when I saw the opening credits and saw all the cast that are involved in this.

[00:02:21] You know, we have the return of Clark Gregg as Phil Coulson.

[00:02:23] We have Samuel L. Jackson coming back.

[00:02:25] We have Tom Hiddleston in there.

[00:02:26] Michael Rooker in there.

[00:02:27] You know, we have all of these people, Josh Brolin even back as Thanos, all of these people involved.

[00:02:32] And you're going, this is the story they all came back for?

[00:02:36] But it's like they're all tainted because they've like touched part of it.

[00:02:40] Well, no, I wouldn't say it's that bad.

[00:02:41] It's like they've all gotten leprosy.

[00:02:43] Oh dear.

[00:02:44] Oh dear.

[00:02:45] Or something like that.

[00:02:46] It's like, oh no.

[00:02:48] Like, what are you doing?

[00:02:49] Like Ebony Moore's there.

[00:02:50] I love Ebony Moore.

[00:02:52] You know, it was great to see sort of that grouping back.

[00:02:59] The Black Order.

[00:03:00] Yeah, the Black Order.

[00:03:02] But I don't know.

[00:03:04] I just romp around the galaxy after an egg.

[00:03:08] Don't know.

[00:03:08] Yeah.

[00:03:09] For me, this felt exactly like what they do with Lego Marvel.

[00:03:13] When they do the Lego Marvel cartoons on Disney that they release every once in a while.

[00:03:18] They're comedy ones for a younger age group.

[00:03:20] I suppose the weird part about it is it starts out with something really, really unusual.

[00:03:25] That's probably only intended for adults.

[00:03:27] The fact that we have Darcy and and Harry the Duck getting together and having a baby together or having an egg together is an adult question that probably most parents wouldn't want to answer.

[00:03:38] Wouldn't want to give an answer to on Christmas Day.

[00:03:41] Yeah.

[00:03:41] Is that how Jesus Christ was born?

[00:03:43] Pretty much like, yeah.

[00:03:44] This is this is the MCU story.

[00:03:47] I'm liking it now.

[00:03:47] Yeah.

[00:03:47] But it is the MCU's story of of the birth of Christ, really.

[00:03:51] You know, it's.

[00:03:52] Yeah, I guess I hadn't even thought about it like that, but I'm guessing so.

[00:03:56] In which case, I'm all in.

[00:03:59] Well, it was going to get a one out of five and now it's getting a four out of five.

[00:04:04] Oh, that's probably racing.

[00:04:05] Yeah, John.

[00:04:06] Let's get into our discussion about this episode of what if.

[00:04:10] Yes.

[00:04:11] Let us get into that discussion.

[00:04:14] And but before we do remember fellow defenders head on over to TV podcast industries where you can subscribe to the podcast on any mysterious podcast player in the multiverse.

[00:04:25] You can find it in any universe you so wish.

[00:04:30] Mm hmm.

[00:04:30] We're also over on Facebook in our Facebook group.

[00:04:34] And please head on over there to Facebook dot com forward slash groups forward slash TV podcast industries.

[00:04:40] And you can send your thoughts, theories and observations not only through the Facebook group spoiler posts, but also by email to feedback at TV podcast industries dot com.

[00:04:53] Derek, who gave us what were when how and why quack?

[00:04:57] Well, the executive producer of the show, of course, are Matthew Chauncey, Brian Andrews, Brad Winderbaum and Kevin Feige.

[00:05:03] Head writer for the series is Matthew Chauncey.

[00:05:05] This episode, the story was written by Brian Andrews, Matthew Chauncey and Ryan Little.

[00:05:09] And the teleplay for the episode was Matthew Chauncey and Ryan Little.

[00:05:12] And the episode is directed by Stephen Frank, who directed the first episode of the season as well.

[00:05:17] One that we also weren't massively impressed with.

[00:05:19] But John, do you want to give us your synopsis for this episode?

[00:05:24] Sure.

[00:05:25] During Thor's party on Earth, Howard the Duck marries Darcy Lewis and they have a baby that takes the form of an egg.

[00:05:33] The couple is subsequently invited to the Grandmaster's intergalactic cruise.

[00:05:38] But he takes the egg and attempts to cook it for a breakfast before Yondu undonta steals it.

[00:05:44] As the couple gives chase, Nick Fury and Phil Coulson explain that because their child was born during a realignment of the nine realms called the Convergence, it is destined for great things and has become highly sought after by several factions.

[00:05:58] On nowhere, Yondu delivers the egg to Caecilius, who kills him and attempts to use it as a host body for Dormammu.

[00:06:05] Shield attacks, intending to contain the egg, though Howard and Darcy recover it and flee to Jotunheim to seek shelter with Loki.

[00:06:15] However, Loki's father, Laufey, the dark elf Malekith, the Olympian god Zeus and Thanos and his Black Order are also after the egg and a chase ensues.

[00:06:26] As Howard and Darcy are cornered, the egg suddenly glows gold, rises into the sky and subdues the pursuers with golden energy.

[00:06:35] It hatches moments later into a human-duck hybrid, which the parents name Birdie.

[00:06:42] Fury admits that the child should be with her parents and ceases the pursuit as the family return home in peace.

[00:06:51] I can't believe what I've just read.

[00:06:53] Oh, yes.

[00:06:54] Yay.

[00:06:54] Yes.

[00:06:55] And you didn't even mention I was made for loving you.

[00:07:00] No, I didn't.

[00:07:01] That could have filled up at least two paragraphs.

[00:07:03] It certainly did in the script.

[00:07:04] I mean, this is the most bonkers what if ever.

[00:07:08] I guess interspecies, you know, nooky nook.

[00:07:14] A woman laying an egg.

[00:07:16] Yeah.

[00:07:19] I'm kind of down with it.

[00:07:21] But I was just in the end.

[00:07:23] I just went, you know.

[00:07:25] Okay.

[00:07:26] I had a particular thought of what the what if series were.

[00:07:31] It's not that they couldn't have fun.

[00:07:32] I mean, even the fact that it starts off with during Party Thor being on Earth, which as soon as that came up, I was like, oh, no.

[00:07:40] Derek's really going to hate this one.

[00:07:43] Yep.

[00:07:43] So it's like, you know, it's not that I'm not down with it.

[00:07:47] It's not that I'm not wanting to, like, not enjoy it and be totally down on it.

[00:07:53] But I think I just had a particular view of what if and what it would produce.

[00:07:58] And it's not that they can't be out there.

[00:08:01] But this to me, I was like, did they have, like, a few too many pumpkin lattes on sort of Halloween and, like, quite a lot of smoking pumpkin rinds?

[00:08:14] I have no idea.

[00:08:15] But fair enough, someone's got a really active imagination.

[00:08:19] Well, I think, you know, the whole point of what if is that it can turn its hand to anything at all.

[00:08:24] The multiverse is infinite and any type of story can be told.

[00:08:28] So here they chose to tell this comedy story.

[00:08:31] But this is the moment where they're like, what if Stephen Rogers became a cardboard box and still defeated the Chitauri?

[00:08:42] It can happen.

[00:08:43] Yeah, it can happen.

[00:08:44] The Chitauri mushrooms like it.

[00:08:46] But that can still happen in the multiverse.

[00:08:48] Absolutely.

[00:08:48] We just haven't seen many examples of that in the show.

[00:08:51] And when they have taken a swing for the fences, like in episode 107, the Party Thor episode, it just ground the episode to a halt for me.

[00:08:59] The performances, the cast can't even overcome the material they're given in the story they're trying to tell here.

[00:09:05] Very simply, I know there's a synopsis there for the episode.

[00:09:09] But very simply, the episode itself is a chase episode where everybody chases after an egg and it ends up actually the egg could be better being at home.

[00:09:17] But that's it.

[00:09:17] There's nothing more groundbreaking to it.

[00:09:19] But we will stick to our structure a little bit as we go into our top three, though.

[00:09:25] Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:26] First up, what if we had seen this before?

[00:09:29] Well, actually, it's becoming a little messy because this is about seeing something before in terms of the Party Prince from the What If episode from Season 1, Episode 7.

[00:09:41] Yes.

[00:09:41] Where you have Party Thor.

[00:09:44] And I kind of like the idea, at least initially, where Thor effectively brings all these different alien species to Earth.

[00:09:52] You've got this intergalactic Party Prince that introduces the Earth effectively to the stars, as the Watcher describes it.

[00:10:01] And that Earth and the cosmos become just so heavily intertwined that when the party is finished, the guests ultimately hung around and led to a more sort of cosmopolitan or cosmic-politan Earth.

[00:10:18] And I kind of like that idea.

[00:10:21] It's just a shame with all those wonderful aliens that Darcy happened to have nachos with Howard the Duck.

[00:10:30] Yeah.

[00:10:31] I don't think there's anything actually that bad about Howard the Duck.

[00:10:34] I think overall he survives reasonably unscathed from the episode.

[00:10:38] I think he's pretty much in that mode.

[00:10:40] I'm fine with him telling the jokes he tells, I suppose.

[00:10:43] Yeah.

[00:10:43] I like Seth Green's delivery of his line.

[00:10:46] Like his perfect voice sort of for Howard the Duck, to be honest.

[00:10:52] There's a few moments there at work.

[00:10:54] He says a few lines that I just really kind of enjoyed.

[00:10:59] I'll come to one of them because it's with Dormanu and Caecilius.

[00:11:03] But I really kind of, I did have a good chuckle.

[00:11:07] Yeah.

[00:11:08] Yeah.

[00:11:08] So I don't think he comes out any worse or better than when I went into the episode, I suppose.

[00:11:13] It's probably just more, why did all of these other people come back for this particular story?

[00:11:18] Unless it is what I think it is sometimes, what if, where they go, okay, Samuel L. Jackson, we have you for a recording session for six hours today.

[00:11:25] Here's 200 lines.

[00:11:26] And we'll give you direction on how to read them and then we'll edit them into the episodes as we feel fit.

[00:11:31] That's what I think sometimes happens.

[00:11:33] There is a moment with Samuel L. Jackson calling them the ducks repeatedly, which does feel like it's just filled in from the one time he said the take and said they're called the ducks.

[00:11:45] And they went, okay, we'll use that and we'll edit that back in later over and over again.

[00:11:52] But the other big moment I suppose taken that's taken for inspiration here from the MCU is the convergence.

[00:11:59] We hear it mentioned by Coulson that the convergence happened.

[00:12:03] The nice that Darcy had laid the egg.

[00:12:06] I didn't even know I was going to ever say that sentence.

[00:12:09] But the convergence was the key moment in Thor the Dark World where all seven realms aligned and the dark elves were going to turn the entire galaxy and all realms to darkness.

[00:12:20] So that moment was the kind of jumping off point, the convergence in Thor the Dark World.

[00:12:25] Yeah, exactly.

[00:12:26] I mean, it's kind of where, you know, the writers of this water shouldn't have even stayed there.

[00:12:32] And then Fantastic Mr. Fox came into the duck coop and sort of took the egg.

[00:12:37] Like, lick the yolk out of there.

[00:12:39] Because, I mean, it is the one moment where I actually wanted the Grand Meister to sort of succeed and for there to be scrambled egg on the brunch.

[00:12:49] Oh, no.

[00:12:49] Well, I'm guessing it's still in its yolk form at that stage.

[00:12:52] Well, she birthed it and they just didn't know how long it was going to take until it hatched, I guess.

[00:13:00] You see, so many questions left unanswered from this episode.

[00:13:05] Yeah.

[00:13:05] Was it still in yolk stage or was it sort of, has it developed beyond that?

[00:13:11] But effectively, they were about to hard boil the egg.

[00:13:14] Yeah.

[00:13:15] They're certainly all questions that I do not want the answer to.

[00:13:17] I don't want another what if episode to return to this time period and go, but what actually if they ate the egg for breakfast?

[00:13:25] Like, it is saved by Yondu coming in and collecting the egg from the pot, I guess, before it gets boiled or fried or scrambled, maybe.

[00:13:37] Yeah.

[00:13:37] Oven baked.

[00:13:39] Yeah.

[00:13:39] Maybe.

[00:13:40] Boached.

[00:13:41] Boached.

[00:13:41] But that did lead to one moment that I did really like.

[00:13:43] I just liked Darcy going, oh, Captain Mohawk saved our baby.

[00:13:48] And then Yondu tells him that he wants to take it to sell it off to the collector and is going, hang on a second.

[00:13:53] Captain Mohawk stole our baby.

[00:13:54] And then they chase after him.

[00:13:56] Funny moment.

[00:13:57] Absolutely.

[00:13:58] Like, there was a nice little bit of dark humor here on the Grand Meister sort of cruise line as he's, that he's invited Howard the Duck and Darcy on.

[00:14:07] You just hear on the voiceover, there's couples cliff diving on Vermeer.

[00:14:12] You can only appreciate it with someone you love, which I thought was lovely and scrumptiously dark humor.

[00:14:20] It was pretty dark.

[00:14:21] To be honest, given they were, you know, have been, that Vermeer has been the site of two really emotional moments in the MCU series.

[00:14:33] So, I kind of like that slight irreverence sort of running through.

[00:14:37] And I guess, ultimately, even just the sullying of Kaecilius and even the great Dormammu.

[00:14:43] Because, like, as soon as they came on, I was like, you know, okay, here's the first Stephen Strange, you know.

[00:14:49] Kaecilius is back.

[00:14:50] He's doing his room geometrics to try and sort of bamboozle everyone.

[00:14:56] And it also led to a really good moment for me with both Darcy and Howard the Duck,

[00:15:03] where they're starting the ritual.

[00:15:07] I think they're doing an ensolment ritual.

[00:15:13] And they're kind of mumbling, Google gargle, Google gargle, kind of one of us.

[00:15:19] And it's like, are we getting it?

[00:15:20] And she's like, I think we nailed it.

[00:15:22] And Howard the Duck just goes, I'm killing it.

[00:15:24] Absolutely.

[00:15:25] I thought that was really, really good.

[00:15:28] But, like, yeah, I mean, I'm just surprised to see Kaecilius and the acolytes of Dormammu in here.

[00:15:36] Like, I would love to have seen Kaecilius back in the second Doctor Strange,

[00:15:40] but instead of getting him in What If, trying to have a human-duck hybrid be the body for the lord of the dark dimension, Dormammu.

[00:15:55] Yeah, but notably, Madd Mickelson didn't return to voice the role of Kaecilius for this particular episode.

[00:16:02] And I'm guessing none of those characters are coming back again,

[00:16:05] because I don't know how you would be able to take Dormammu serious.

[00:16:10] Although I did like Kaecilius's little nod to the first Doctor Strange movie,

[00:16:19] where he says, Dormammu has not come to bar.

[00:16:23] Exactly.

[00:16:25] Probably burnt by that bargain with Doctor Strange.

[00:16:29] But it was, yeah, it was interesting to see them in there.

[00:16:32] The position that Kaecilius is in now is that he's taken over from the collector

[00:16:37] because lots of strange artifacts will be coming through nowhere on a regular basis,

[00:16:41] and maybe the right artifact will come through,

[00:16:44] and that will be where they'll find the body that they'll be able to put Dormammu into,

[00:16:47] is basically what happened.

[00:16:49] Are there any other movies that are referenced here?

[00:16:52] I think because it takes its jumping off point from that What If episode, 107,

[00:16:57] we kind of already talked about the references that are in there,

[00:17:00] but because that's the jumping off point,

[00:17:01] I don't know whether there is any other major MCU moments.

[00:17:05] No.

[00:17:06] I mean, certainly the egg shooting out lightning bolts seemed a bit Ark of the Covenant from Indiana Jones.

[00:17:14] But is Indiana Jones not in the MCU, John?

[00:17:17] The Ark of the Covenant.

[00:17:18] No, it's not.

[00:17:19] I know.

[00:17:20] I mean, like, with the exception that, you know,

[00:17:23] you've got the Dark Elves linked to Thor The Dark World.

[00:17:26] You've got Kaecilius with Doctor Strange.

[00:17:28] Yeah.

[00:17:30] You have Thor Love and Thunder.

[00:17:32] You have Zeus in there.

[00:17:33] But I mean, whether it changes anything within those, not really.

[00:17:37] It's just their characters from those movies.

[00:17:40] It's definitely.

[00:17:41] I mean, there is a few other movies referenced here.

[00:17:45] Like, when they finally have the egg after they've sort of taken it from Kaecilius

[00:17:51] and escaped everyone who's trying to get it there,

[00:17:53] because I think Fury comes in as well.

[00:17:56] And they call it out as it's like Bonnie and Clyde.

[00:17:59] Yeah.

[00:17:59] And as they head to Jotunheim, with the ensolment ritual is Rosemary's Baby is called out as well.

[00:18:11] So there's a few kind of, you know, movies just name dropped in this, mainly by Howard the Duck.

[00:18:18] Yeah.

[00:18:18] But, yeah, and then we head off to the intergalactic ski slopes on Jotunheim.

[00:18:25] Or Jodelheim.

[00:18:26] Or Jodelheim for a new hotel that Loki and his father Laufey are creating.

[00:18:33] So, again, I was just like, okay.

[00:18:35] Yeah, exactly.

[00:18:36] Okay.

[00:18:37] Tom Hendelton would just give her these lines.

[00:18:39] Let's go there.

[00:18:40] He got the joke, I guess.

[00:18:41] And off he goes.

[00:18:43] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:18:44] Yeah.

[00:18:45] It goes crazy and everyone shows up.

[00:18:47] Yeah.

[00:18:48] That's just the black order when they say they aren't actually here for the egg.

[00:18:51] They've just got a Groupon voucher and they're on a team building day or something like that.

[00:18:57] And Colin Fan also goes, you call me here for an egg?

[00:19:00] It's so bizarre.

[00:19:02] I'm like, what's going on?

[00:19:02] Yeah.

[00:19:03] Okay.

[00:19:04] There was a lot of laughing gas or, I don't know, something in the air conditioning unit at the office that day.

[00:19:13] It feels like they were writing for outtakes, I guess.

[00:19:16] You know?

[00:19:17] Yeah, we'll just do another one.

[00:19:18] I promise we won't use this take.

[00:19:20] We'll animate around it and use it at our Christmas party.

[00:19:25] Oh, actually, we've animated into a whole episode and releasing it on Christmas Day.

[00:19:31] This does break our structure completely because what if there was one small change?

[00:19:36] Well, the one small change is that episode 107 of What If existed, basically.

[00:19:41] So we call it that.

[00:19:41] This is the continuing knock-on impact.

[00:19:43] Yeah, the saga.

[00:19:44] Yeah, which is that Howard and Darcy got married and had a baby.

[00:19:48] So that's kind of the continuing knock-on effect.

[00:19:51] But I do think the change of Caecilius with the Collector on Nowhere, that's something that didn't happen at all in the MCU.

[00:19:58] So the fact that Caecilius is still alive, still worshipping Dormammu and is able to take the place of the Collector is a pretty big change in the universe.

[00:20:05] Yeah, and I mean, that's the small change to some extent because, as you say, it's really a continuation of a small change that happened in Season 1, Episode 7 of What If.

[00:20:17] Exactly.

[00:20:18] And this is a continuation of that small change as it's sort of laid out by the Watcher right at the start that everyone who's come to Earth for this big intergalactic party has stayed after the hangover, has long since been forgotten.

[00:20:34] And all those relationships that formed at that party have kind of taken root, taken form, and there are egg pregnancies happening.

[00:20:46] I guess so.

[00:20:47] At least one, yeah.

[00:20:48] Yeah, at least one.

[00:20:49] So that is where the small change is, is that they didn't leave to go back to their home world.

[00:20:57] Exactly.

[00:20:58] Well, the party exists in the first place, is the change.

[00:21:02] And then the final point that we have in our top three is what if the universe was changed forever?

[00:21:07] And I do think this may be a really big change, the fact there is this egg that grows into Birdie, daughter of the ducks.

[00:21:16] I guess that's probably what is different about this part of the multiverse than other stories told in other universes in the multiverse.

[00:21:25] So I guess that's the big change.

[00:21:27] I would suspect we will see Birdie in a future episode, maybe growing up, maybe powered.

[00:21:32] Yeah.

[00:21:32] But it has to be.

[00:21:33] I'm guessing so, because there's this sense that it's an all-powerful being.

[00:21:38] I mean, to the point that you've got hugely powerful groupings like Dormammu, like Thanos, like, in fact, the Asgardians.

[00:21:50] I mean, Laufey is trying to get hold of it, even though Loki is trying to prevent him.

[00:21:56] You've got Zeus, like the god.

[00:21:59] All these different people are trying to have a piece of this egg.

[00:22:06] Yeah.

[00:22:07] And, yeah, like, there's some significance there, but we just don't know actually what that is going to be just yet.

[00:22:15] Or potentially, I'd say, and fingers crossed, just what if?

[00:22:21] Maybe.

[00:22:22] Maybe it's phase five.

[00:22:24] Maybe Birdie will be in live action in the future.

[00:22:28] It could be, yeah.

[00:22:29] Exactly.

[00:22:30] Like, is it Eros with the wings on the feet?

[00:22:33] Maybe, yeah, yeah.

[00:22:34] Something like that?

[00:22:35] Yeah.

[00:22:35] Could be something.

[00:22:37] I don't want to speculate about possibility.

[00:22:41] But also, we have that the Dark Elves aren't going after the Aether here.

[00:22:45] Instead, they're going after the egg that was born on the day of the conversions of all the realms.

[00:22:56] So, yeah.

[00:22:57] I mean, that's another big element here because that impacts the reality gem as well.

[00:23:04] Mm-hmm.

[00:23:05] Yeah, I think that's it.

[00:23:06] I think they went after the egg instead of the Aether in this world because it's connected to the conversions.

[00:23:10] And I think certainly Malkiath, the leader of the Dark Elves, is dead in the Dark World.

[00:23:15] So, it couldn't be a second plan to try and achieve the goal of bringing darkness to the multiverse.

[00:23:20] Yeah, I mean, but also, speaking of death, I mean, the egg goes, not only is it shooting out lightning, but then it literally burns a very bright white.

[00:23:34] And I'm getting the impression that they're all dead.

[00:23:38] I think so, yeah.

[00:23:39] Or transported somewhere else.

[00:23:41] I mean, other than Fury, who's hiding behind the rocks with Loki and his father.

[00:23:46] Yes, yeah.

[00:23:46] So, Tyrannic.

[00:23:47] They've killed Trannas.

[00:23:48] They've killed Malkiath.

[00:23:50] They've killed, not Zeus.

[00:23:52] He ran away.

[00:23:52] No, Zeus has kind of knocked off trajectory.

[00:23:55] Like he says, oh, I have an orgy to go to.

[00:23:57] I've got to go now.

[00:23:58] Yes.

[00:23:58] Yeah.

[00:24:00] Hopefully not with another duck.

[00:24:03] Let's hope not.

[00:24:04] Yeah.

[00:24:04] So, yeah, I mean, this was off its pants crazy for me.

[00:24:08] And then it was all topped off by the most smaltzy sentimental line that we've gotten in all of the episodes.

[00:24:16] So weird.

[00:24:16] We've been complaining about how smaltzy they are.

[00:24:18] But at the end with There's No Place Like Home and Parents Are the Greatest Heroes.

[00:24:23] After all, when you're looking at Howard the Duck and Darcy Lewis with their new baby with wings on.

[00:24:33] I don't know.

[00:24:34] None of it makes any sense.

[00:24:36] It doesn't.

[00:24:36] Why you would go down the wholesome route at the end of something that basically was released on Christmas Day.

[00:24:48] I mean, so I just don't get where this is coming from.

[00:24:51] Like when Doctor Strange came out, if something else was taking over my mind, maybe this would be hilarious.

[00:24:57] But it's just weird.

[00:24:59] It's just I don't get it.

[00:25:00] Well, I do think there's something about this is the MCU's version of the birth of the Savior, where everybody wants to get their hands on it like they did with Jesus.

[00:25:10] Like Harry tried to kill all the babies that were born at the same time so that this didn't rise to power.

[00:25:16] So I think there's a bit of that in there.

[00:25:18] And that's why they thought this would be a fun story for Christmas.

[00:25:21] And we're kind of stretching into the Do You Defend the episode.

[00:25:25] So I'll go straight into mine.

[00:25:27] Yeah, I don't defend this episode.

[00:25:28] I don't think there is any defense for this episode, but I'll let you decide whether there is a defense for this episode.

[00:25:33] And I think if they were going to do this, this should have been a Lego Marvel episode of do a Lego show with these characters in there.

[00:25:43] This didn't seem to form part of what we've seen so far and what if.

[00:25:47] So the only reason I suspect they actually put it on air is because Birdie, the character, this child is going to become important in the future.

[00:25:55] So they had to have an origin story for her somehow.

[00:25:58] So we like Darcy.

[00:25:59] She's great fun.

[00:26:00] Let's put her on screen with Herod the Duck, which a lot of people like as well.

[00:26:03] And then we can have that story out there.

[00:26:05] So when Birdie arrives, we now know where she comes from.

[00:26:08] That's kind of it.

[00:26:09] It is wonderful to see Fury and Coulson together on screen again.

[00:26:13] Two of my favorite Marvel characters.

[00:26:15] So a little bit of banter between the two of them.

[00:26:17] You even have Samuel L. Jackson asking Coulson how he's doing.

[00:26:19] So, you know, so that's kind of nice to have them together on screen there.

[00:26:23] So but that's kind of it.

[00:26:25] That's the only bits I really liked.

[00:26:27] Fury and Coulson and I guess Darcy.

[00:26:30] She's always fun to watch.

[00:26:31] How about yourself, John?

[00:26:32] Do you defend this episode of what if?

[00:26:37] Breathe deeply.

[00:26:38] Relax.

[00:26:41] No, I don't defend this episode of what if.

[00:26:46] I'd give this to Fury's out.

[00:26:48] And so is John out of five.

[00:26:51] None of this made any sense to me.

[00:26:53] And I think I could have just about defended it for craziness and weirdness.

[00:26:59] But I'd done that for the first episode.

[00:27:01] And I think this is not as good as the first episode in that sense.

[00:27:06] And mainly because it undermines itself.

[00:27:09] Like some of the schmaltzy endings that have happened at least two of the of the four so far.

[00:27:15] And now with this one have just kind of jarred me out of the episodes a little.

[00:27:20] And this really did because I'm like, just go with your craziness, your irreverence.

[00:27:26] And I can deal with that.

[00:27:28] I normally like that kind of stuff.

[00:27:30] Yeah.

[00:27:30] And but to end it with parents of the real heroes.

[00:27:34] And yes, parents are great.

[00:27:36] They're fantastic.

[00:27:37] But it's like we've just seen something that there's no relationship to that.

[00:27:42] Like so just go with the craziness of what you're putting on screen here, which is ultimately what it was.

[00:27:51] And so they couldn't even do that.

[00:27:53] I mean, as I say, you know, Dormammu and Kaecilius suddenly there was like, oh, this is really interesting.

[00:27:59] Some really kind of nice one line is running through here that were kind of irreverent.

[00:28:04] They were dark.

[00:28:05] And I was like, oh, great.

[00:28:06] Again, Darcy.

[00:28:07] I'm like, you know, really like Darcy.

[00:28:10] I say Fury, Kaecilius, Dormammu, even having Loki back in here, you know, all this really good.

[00:28:18] And some of these jokes possibly could have even have landed if they just paced this a little better.

[00:28:24] And like, you know, the part of me does kind of quite like the Yotan Slopes Intergalactic Hotel that Loki and his father are trying to peddle.

[00:28:33] And in the end, they just get kind of.

[00:28:37] Mixed up and mashed up with a whole stuff that then centers around a Kiss tune.

[00:28:45] And I mean, actually, I preferred the neighbor up above saying, you know, the 80s have called.

[00:28:51] They want their tune back effectively.

[00:28:53] And I'm kind of like.

[00:28:54] But the Kiss argument in 1979, John.

[00:28:56] Well, I know.

[00:28:57] But it's like, I'm just like, I just didn't quite realize we had gotten to the stage of what if where there wasn't any decent story that was left.

[00:29:09] So they've done this.

[00:29:09] That wasn't left.

[00:29:10] And so they had to say, had to start going about what if, you know, the Hulk was a mint imperial that had to fight a Bassett's licorice all sort or something like that.

[00:29:24] I mean, that's crazy as it is for me.

[00:29:26] It's episode.

[00:29:28] And and if it's just for the sake of having a a human duck hybrid for some other episode.

[00:29:36] Fair enough.

[00:29:36] But I think it could have been done better.

[00:29:37] Even if just focused on one, I think by bringing all these different people in and know that to show the importance of Birdie.

[00:29:46] But just keep it at maybe, you know, the Grand Meister.

[00:29:51] You know, if we're in the world of Thor.

[00:29:53] Yeah.

[00:29:54] Keep it in as him.

[00:29:56] And Grand Master.

[00:29:57] Yeah.

[00:29:57] And maybe Casselius or something, whoever, you know.

[00:30:00] But Zeus talking about orgies, you know, what I'm like.

[00:30:05] I don't know.

[00:30:06] I just don't know.

[00:30:07] So I don't defend this.

[00:30:09] And I'd give this two and a half.

[00:30:12] Fury's out.

[00:30:12] So is John out of five.

[00:30:15] That is officially your lowest rated episode of all What Ifs.

[00:30:20] That's gone even lower.

[00:30:21] I think because it took the jumping off point from the Thor episode, that probably brings it down an extra notch, doesn't it?

[00:30:26] Because if you take a jumping off point from a terrible episode and then make another terrible episode.

[00:30:30] Yeah.

[00:30:30] I mean, it does.

[00:30:31] I mean, I'm now like I'm concerned that I have crossed the Rubicon into old age when we're going down with this sort of thing.

[00:30:40] But like I, as I say, I love irreverent humor.

[00:30:43] I love dark humor.

[00:30:45] And I just don't think it got any of the balance right on this.

[00:30:50] And I think it undermined its own craziness by having the schmaltzy ending.

[00:30:56] Yeah.

[00:30:57] As I say, I think it might have worked as maybe a cut scene in one of the Lego Marvel games because Howard the Duck's in there.

[00:31:03] Those characters are in there.

[00:31:04] They could have done a little cut scene of some of this as a little storyline there that not everybody would have had to watch as part of a series.

[00:31:10] That might have worked.

[00:31:12] Or as I say, maybe it felt like Lego, basically.

[00:31:15] The Lego type of jokes rather than something as part of What If.

[00:31:19] But it's only one episode.

[00:31:20] We have more episodes to come.

[00:31:22] Love to hear the thoughts of our fellow defenders though, John.

[00:31:25] Let's start out on our multiversal messages, our feedback section.

[00:31:29] Yes.

[00:31:30] First up, we have Coffee and Vodka.

[00:31:33] It says, greeting fellow skirmish-hatched defenders.

[00:31:36] On one hand, it was an entertaining episode of Convergence Egg.

[00:31:40] Keep away with a ton of great cameos.

[00:31:42] On the other, it felt like a vote of no confidence for Howard to shorten an entry on his own.

[00:31:48] Bomb or not, people seem to have forgotten he was the second Marvel character.

[00:31:51] After Captain America 42 years earlier to fill the silver screen.

[00:31:57] This via a push by no less a fan than George Lucas.

[00:32:02] Hell, Howard even had a presidential bid.

[00:32:05] Gene Colan's satirical foul held serious way once upon a time.

[00:32:10] Ah, well.

[00:32:11] Rant aside, everyone involved in this seemed to have a great time, including Josh, you brought me here for an egg.

[00:32:17] Brolin and Cat, what in the name of I'd wise shut.

[00:32:22] Dennings.

[00:32:22] I knew there was another movie reference being mentioned.

[00:32:25] There was.

[00:32:25] Well done, Coffee and Vodka.

[00:32:27] And it's so nice to have Colson along for the cosmic trip.

[00:32:32] One step closer to having Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. become part of the MCU, one hopes.

[00:32:37] Four and a half reverse Paltrow's battles over easy and last results out of five.

[00:32:44] Peace and take care and Merry Christmas, Coffee and Vodka out.

[00:32:49] Very good.

[00:32:50] Very good.

[00:32:50] Well done, Coffee and Vodka.

[00:32:52] Glad you enjoyed it.

[00:32:53] I'm also glad you enjoyed it.

[00:32:55] But just to say, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is not necessarily not part of the MCU.

[00:33:01] Still saying that's part of the MCU.

[00:33:03] But a nice way to tie it back in again and hopefully we'll get more of the return of Colson in the future.

[00:33:08] But it is really interesting.

[00:33:09] Yeah, Howard the Duck being a character that made a movie was made out of in the 80s by George Lucas who made Star Wars.

[00:33:17] It was kind of the last big outing before James Gunn dusted him off, gave Seth Green the voice work for Howard the Duck and put him into a couple of movies.

[00:33:25] And then he's been in What If a couple of times as well.

[00:33:27] But it's quite massive that he used to have a movie by his name.

[00:33:32] You know, it was quite a big thing.

[00:33:33] And it was before Marvel Studios, before Blade, before anybody else.

[00:33:37] So for most of the people, yes, there was, of course, a Captain America movie before that.

[00:33:41] But yeah, I'm kind of happy now.

[00:33:45] I think we've had cameos of Seth Green.

[00:33:48] He does a great version of the voice.

[00:33:50] That's probably where Harrod should sit for me in the MCU as well after this episode.

[00:33:55] While he doesn't take centre stage, he sits beside one of the funniest characters in the MCU with Darcy.

[00:34:01] And I think he might have taken her down a little bit in my estimation for this two-hander between the two of them.

[00:34:08] Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because like a lot of what you say, like I kind of connect to you.

[00:34:12] So it's just, I think I just don't get Howard the Duck and never have.

[00:34:16] Or maybe we're just on the other side of Christmas, so we're not willing to give it a pass.

[00:34:20] Like we may have in the past.

[00:34:22] Thanks so much, Coffee and Vodka.

[00:34:23] Yeah, thanks so much, Coffee and Vodka.

[00:34:25] Also an email, we've got a message in from Victor Von Doom who says,

[00:34:29] Season's greetings, Defenders.

[00:34:30] I like seeing Darcy as a mom in this episode.

[00:34:33] Kat Dennings is about to play one on a comedy series on TV as well.

[00:34:36] The nativity callbacks are cute.

[00:34:38] Is that Grandmaster playing the Herod role?

[00:34:40] Possibly.

[00:34:41] Matt Friend's impersonation of Jeff Goldblum I thought was very close.

[00:34:45] Tom Hiddleston as the still-spoiled trust fund baby was pretty funny.

[00:34:49] The action flow reminds me of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

[00:34:52] The Stranger Things slash Raiders ending kind of a ripoff, but fitting.

[00:34:56] Hey, it's Christmas.

[00:34:57] All the best of the new year.

[00:34:59] Victor Yondu Von Doom.

[00:35:01] Excellent, Victor Yondu.

[00:35:03] Great to get your thoughts.

[00:35:04] That's true, actually.

[00:35:06] Matt Friend's impersonation of Jeff Goldblum was really, really good, to be honest.

[00:35:11] It's good.

[00:35:12] Yeah, and I did like the trust fund Tom Hiddleston Loki.

[00:35:17] Yeah, you're taking all my trust fund away?

[00:35:19] Yeah, exactly.

[00:35:20] It's funny.

[00:35:20] I would say Matt Friend does a good impersonation.

[00:35:25] If I saw him at a comedy show doing Jeff Goldblum, I'd go, oh yeah, that's Jeff Goldblum that he's doing.

[00:35:30] But it's not as Jeff Goldblum as Jeff Goldblum is, I guess.

[00:35:34] So I knew instantly it wasn't Jeff Goldblum returning for the role.

[00:35:37] You could tell it was an impersonation.

[00:35:39] Agreed.

[00:35:39] Definitely.

[00:35:39] Yeah.

[00:35:40] Excellent stuff.

[00:35:41] Thanks, Victor.

[00:35:42] Over on Facebook, first up, Heather Wallace, who says,

[00:35:45] I know I watched this episode after drinking a lot of champagne on a hot day, but that was weird, wasn't it?

[00:35:51] Yes.

[00:35:52] But well done, Seth Green, for making Howard the Duck interesting in the animated series.

[00:35:57] Although my favorite version was when he took on the Nova Corp last season.

[00:36:01] Cat Dennings is such a delight as Darcy and vacuous ice bro Loki was kind of sweet.

[00:36:07] But what was up with the Fury saying parents are the true superheroes?

[00:36:12] Has Hallmark infiltrated Marvel?

[00:36:15] I think it may have done Heather.

[00:36:16] I really do.

[00:36:18] And Heather continues, is that why there's been so many saccharine lines snuck in?

[00:36:23] One of the defining points of Marvel heroes is how emotionally neglectful their parents have been.

[00:36:29] Let's keep them that way.

[00:36:31] Exactly.

[00:36:32] That's what really causes a true hero.

[00:36:36] Agreed.

[00:36:37] Agreed, Heather.

[00:36:38] I have to say, because we were away with family, we hadn't gotten the benefit of tons of drink to watch this on.

[00:36:47] And I really wish I had.

[00:36:50] We should have had a glass or two.

[00:36:52] Yeah.

[00:36:52] Definitely.

[00:36:53] Thanks for that, Heather.

[00:36:54] Dr. Bob Phillips on Facebook also says,

[00:36:56] I wasn't a great fan of Herod the Duck before, but Darcy, oh, Darcy has changed my view of him.

[00:37:01] Fluffy, feathery, hopeful nonsense just right for Christmas Day.

[00:37:06] Okay.

[00:37:06] I'd say maybe if I watched it on Christmas Day with a cup of glasses of champagne, I might have liked it more.

[00:37:11] It is nonsense and hopeful.

[00:37:14] Yeah.

[00:37:15] I'd say if tons of alcohol and some deviled eggs on Christmas Day and be like, yeah, this is good fun.

[00:37:23] Yeah.

[00:37:24] Yeah.

[00:37:25] Yeah.

[00:37:25] Maybe, Dr. Bob.

[00:37:26] Thanks for your feedback.

[00:37:28] Yeah.

[00:37:28] Thanks, Dr. Bob.

[00:37:29] And Cale Hensley just says, I can't believe they went back to the Herod the Duck has sex with a human well after 38 years.

[00:37:36] They didn't learn their lesson the first time.

[00:37:39] Absolutely, Cale.

[00:37:40] That was one of the major moments in Herod the Duck, the movie.

[00:37:44] Yeah.

[00:37:44] I mean, at least this is animated this time rather than animatronic, I guess.

[00:37:49] And also at least that wasn't animated as well.

[00:37:52] Yes, exactly.

[00:37:53] At least that was left off screen.

[00:37:55] But I still think there's a little gloop on the egg after it had come out of Darcy.

[00:38:01] So I was just like, yeah.

[00:38:04] Anyway.

[00:38:05] I do not want to think about this anymore.

[00:38:07] So we'll go on to our final piece of feedback from Paul Tenshi Lee.

[00:38:10] Yes.

[00:38:11] Paul says, one, Fury Out might be the most delightful Samuel L. Jackson performance since Where Is My Super Suit?

[00:38:19] Also might have single-handedly made it up for about half of Secret Invasion.

[00:38:24] Excellent stuff, Paul.

[00:38:25] Yeah, loved the Fury Out stuff.

[00:38:29] Absolutely.

[00:38:29] Paul continues, number two, it's been just over 20 years since I was a new parent.

[00:38:34] It completely tracks, and I imagine that as the writers get older, these kinds of stories will show up.

[00:38:40] See the difference between how Clint deals with his kids in Ultron versus The Hawkeye Show.

[00:38:46] Thirdly, sweet episode with all the cameos.

[00:38:49] Love having Tom Hiddleston back as a frost giant bro Loki.

[00:38:53] And getting Josh Brolin in for Burley One Line is hilarious.

[00:38:57] Fourth and finally, Darcy and Howard might be the best parents in the extended MCU.

[00:39:03] That kind of goes back to what Heather was saying.

[00:39:05] Yeah, the parents in the MCU tend to be absolutely terrible or are gone and dead for a long time.

[00:39:12] So, yeah, maybe they are the best parents in the extended MCU.

[00:39:14] They seem to want to have their child around at least, which is pretty unusual.

[00:39:19] But we'll need to see how old Birdie Birdie.

[00:39:22] See, that's the thing.

[00:39:23] As soon as it was called Birdie, I started to think of Kathy Bates in Misery sort of doing, ooh, Dirty Birdie.

[00:39:30] And I was like thinking, yes.

[00:39:32] And is that also Howard as well?

[00:39:35] Or is he being a Dirty Birdie?

[00:39:37] Oh, God.

[00:39:38] Anyway.

[00:39:38] I think we want to say thank you very much to everybody who sent us some feedback in this episode.

[00:39:43] Everybody who watched the episode, who thankfully enjoyed it much more than we did, which is good.

[00:39:47] That's really positive.

[00:39:49] We don't have to think about this episode again.

[00:39:51] We can move on to one that I'm really looking forward to.

[00:39:54] The next episode, episode five, is What If the Emergence Destroyed Earth?

[00:39:59] That one I'm definitely looking forward to the next time we podcast on What If.

[00:40:05] Excellent stuff.

[00:40:06] Thank you so much, fellow defenders, for joining us.

[00:40:10] Remember, you can subscribe and share the podcast because sharing the podcast is, of course, sharing the love.

[00:40:17] Sharing the ducky love.

[00:40:18] I don't know.

[00:40:19] All right.

[00:40:19] Sharing any other type of love.

[00:40:22] Great stuff.

[00:40:23] Thanks for joining us.

[00:40:23] Talk to you again next time.

[00:40:24] Yeah.

[00:40:25] Thanks so much, fellow defenders.

[00:40:26] Until next time.

[00:40:28] Keep watching.

[00:40:28] Keep listening.

[00:40:29] Keep defending.

[00:40:30] And, of course, keep quacking.

[00:40:32] Bye.

[00:40:33] Quack quack.

[00:40:33] Bye.

[00:40:34] Derek out.