Spider-Noir Episode 5 Review

SPIDER-NOIR EPISODE 5 REVIEW TRANSCRIPT

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[DEREK]: This is the Defender's on TV podcast Industries you're back with the fifth episode of Spider-Noir "Betrayal".

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[CAT HARDY]: It's right here.

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[CAT HARDY]: And that was it?

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[CAT HARDY]: After that you were.

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[BEN REILLY]: Yes.

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[BEN REILLY]: It took some time at first just to relearn how to be more human again.

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[BEN REILLY]: Believe it or not, I went to the movies.

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[BEN REILLY]: I watched the actors.

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[BEN REILLY]: I studied the way they spoke.

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[BEN REILLY]: Boy, they moved.

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[BEN REILLY]: The arachnid genes are still in me.

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[BEN REILLY]: The ticks, thoughts, impulses.

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[BEN REILLY]: But I managed to suppress them most of the time.

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[DEREK]: Welcome back for the Defenders to our Spider-Noir podcast on TV podcast industries.

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[DEREK]: I am one of your hosts, Derek.

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[JOHN]: Hello there fellow Defenders.

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[JOHN]: I am one of your other host, John.

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[JOHN]: No, she can't.

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[JOHN]: Damn.

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[JOHN]: Down girl.

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[DEREK]: It's that our pod cat Charly or a Cat Hardy.

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[JOHN]: It is cat-hardy, not our pod cat.

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[JOHN]: Although our pod cat can equally be annoying if we haven't been throwing enough to make sure he's not in the room at the time of recording.

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[DEREK]: But I presume he wouldn't reveal our secret identities to some random

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[DEREK]: Well, you might do to the ginger cat across the road in my body just like a little sniff on that one as you've probably gotten so far This is going to be a spoiler filled podcast.

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[DEREK]: for episode five of Spider-Noir.

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[DEREK]: I hope you've watched all the episodes so far And join us after you've watched the episodes because we have a group in the end of this episode

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[JOHN]: Well, spoiler filled all the way, fellow defenders.

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[JOHN]: Exactly.

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[JOHN]: Tune out now, if you don't want to be spoiled.

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[DEREK]: Yes, and the other thing is that only the two of us for this podcast was held for John, were missing Chris from our Spider retrospective.

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[JOHN]: I know, and he's the Spider-Man fan.

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[JOHN]: He is.

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[JOHN]: Such a lightweight It was a bit like happy birthday Chris.

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[BEN REILLY]: Yeah, happy birthday.

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[DEREK]: It's well, Chris This is Chris's birthday podcast where he isn't here.

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[JOHN]: He gets a not off because it's his birthday He gets a night off every night We're doing slides in the world because he hasn't been on long.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, and this is by the fan, but happy birthday Chris

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[DEREK]: And he's been loving it.

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[DEREK]: I know we would talk to him and talk to him on text.

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[DEREK]: He's really been enjoying what has been delivered here from Nicolas Cage.

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[DEREK]: I'm from the show winners for the show.

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[DEREK]: He's still moving.

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[DEREK]: He has his knee.

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[DEREK]: He is.

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[JOHN]: He's still moving.

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[JOHN]: I was going to say longest house removal ever.

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[DEREK]: Well the worst part about it was he thought he was going to move in a couple of weeks you know packed up all the stuff including his microphone and put it into storage before the transfer of the new haste and then contact us and went I don't have a microphone can I join us but can I join you guys by phone?

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[JOHN]: Yeah moving in since March

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[JOHN]: I've got a building, it's terrible.

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[JOHN]: I know, it doesn't build as, I love builders.

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[JOHN]: We love you, but also this one sounds like a nightmare.

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[DEREK]: Yeah, not but fun a lot.

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[DEREK]: So hopefully as a birthday present for Chris, hopefully he gets to move into his new house very soon.

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[DEREK]: And guess the plug back in is his podcasting microphone.

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[DEREK]: So we hopefully will get him in time for a Spider-Man brand new day because I'm not sure whether he's going to be able to join us for a wrap-up of the boys.

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[DEREK]: or a wrap-up of Daredevil born again.

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[DEREK]: I think we're gonna have to do those in our own junk.

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[DEREK]: Yeah, we do have quite a lot to do, actually.

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[JOHN]: And when I think, actually, it's supposed to, so I think, with health, for the regime, that is getting to all spoil the filled discussion.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, of Spider-Manoa, Episode 5 betrayal.

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[DEREK]: That really did sound like a black out of their spinal cord spider noir.

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[DEREK]: Yes, yes, this show of course is Part of our TV podcast industry's podcast if you haven't subscribed to the podcast can pop on over to TV podcast industry.com

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[DEREK]: and subscribe to our podcast where you'll get access to every show that we've done.

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[DEREK]: We're almost out of thousands, the episodes of the podcast and hulms and tones of shows that we've covered over the years and we want to hear your thoughts as we always do by email at you can email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or join us on our Facebook group at facebook.com slash tvpodcast industries or over on our discord details of which are in this show notoriety.

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[JOHN]: Yes, absolutely.

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[JOHN]: I also remember I still need to do a proposed meet-up for our fellow defenders as well.

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[JOHN]: And fellow industrialists and anyone that listens to the podcast.

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[JOHN]: If you do.

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[JOHN]: Because we are coming up to a thousand episodes.

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[JOHN]: And at some point, I think it would be quite nice that we all kind of at least try to meet up at some point.

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[DEREK]: I've virtually got together would be great.

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[JOHN]: It's all virtual, but I'm thinking if we can link it in somehow to one of the Dublin Comic-ons and I was thinking this year it's probably going to be too late, but at least I think I have to re-engage with looking at

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[JOHN]: dates, venues, and so on, so I can give enough time to all our lovely fellow defenders in case they do want to come and join us because otherwise it is a little sporadic we are meeting a good friend of ours who listens to the podcast we know from our Gotham days and very soon in June which we're exciting and coming all the way from Portugal so I can't wait to reminisce

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[JOHN]: Back in the day, we spent a long, long weekend at a Comic-Con in Blackpool, which was very eventful and very, very memorable.

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[JOHN]: Possibly for all the wrong, as well as the right reasons.

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[DEREK]: Absolutely absolutely.

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[JOHN]: But Derek, with that, let us guess into our spoiler-filled review,

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[DEREK]: Yes, of course, the show we're in for the show is Orenusiel, the director of this episode as Adia Thea Jones, who's directed absolutely loads of TV including the comedy drama high potential with Caitlyn Othson from it's Always Sonny and Philadelphia, and she directed two episodes of the second season of DC's Peace Maker as well as so.

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[DEREK]: So, has done some great comic book shows as well.

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[DEREK]: And the episode was written by Jennifer Fransson and Steve Lightfoot, Jennifer Fransson's staff writer on the show with various credits over the last few years.

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[DEREK]: But this is a big credit that she's gotten working on the show here.

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[BEN REILLY]: Yeah, yeah.

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[DEREK]: You pronounce it like Esther, Ransson.

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[DEREK]: Yes, Jessica Fransson, Esther Ransson, I guess.

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[DEREK]: They rhyme in my mind, I guess.

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[DEREK]: So John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for Spirited Oyer episode five?

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[DEREK]: Sure.

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[JOHN]: After Kat Hardy learns that Ben Rally is the spider he takes her on a proper date to Millie's Diner.

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[JOHN]: Ben reveals that he got his parents 15 years earlier during the final days of World War 1.

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[JOHN]: After discovering German experience on Pw's, he was liberating, he was bitten by a mutated half spider prisoner, and that day on Ben had a rackinid DNA.

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[JOHN]: Robbie Robertson reclaimed his job at the Daily Bugle.

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[JOHN]: He and Janet discover every messy human had been treated by the same physician, Dr. Alithia Faber, before developing powers.

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[JOHN]: While Robbie interrogates Dr. Faber and her secretary, Ogden, the spider steals medical files, proving Faber tries to cure the messy humans, but instead aggravated their conditions.

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[JOHN]: Meanwhile, Flintmarko, now Silverman's right hand man, recruits Lonely Lincoln, and together they free, dirt laden from prison, to join them.

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[JOHN]: Now armed with his super-powered musselman, Silverman warns Ben to keep the spider out of this conflict with man Morris.

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[JOHN]: Worried for their lives, Ben asked Kat to leave the city with him and she agrees.

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[JOHN]: But her former partner Flintmarco confronts her overhiring the firepowered Addison to kill Silvermean without telling him.

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[JOHN]: Lincoln informs Kat that Favour believes seeing the spider could help her find a cure, needing Kat to reveal Ben's secret to Dr. Favour and her secretary, Ogden.

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[DEREK]: Bad Kat.

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[DEREK]: Bad Kat.

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[DEREK]: Yeah.

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[JOHN]: Great cliffhanger.

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[JOHN]: Loved it.

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[JOHN]: I loved this episode.

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[JOHN]: I felt it just had everything about it.

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[JOHN]: And I think what, you know, we talk about episodes having cliffhangers, I think there's been a really good ones in this.

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[JOHN]: So far, with the episodes that we've covered and this, I think, just really goes, you know, it is the femme fatale betraying the wall and she's just literally committed to rolling away with that.

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[JOHN]: Fantastic.

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[DEREK]: I love you.

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[DEREK]: I believe in you.

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[DEREK]: Tell me all your secrets.

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[DEREK]: I'm also going to share all your secrets.

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[DEREK]: But somebody asked to save the other person that I loved.

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[DEREK]: I love it, it's so intriguing, it's so interesting, absolutely loved the twists and turns of this episode really good.

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[DEREK]: And I will say this is the first episode of the five we've seen so far that I enjoyed watching in color even more than I enjoyed watching in black and white.

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[DEREK]: The style of all of the characters was so interesting to watch on screen.

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[DEREK]: It's something that you kind of forget, you know, you're talking about the 19...

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[DEREK]: the 1930s, you know, we've seen loads of photographs that have been touched up and the colors have been added to them from the black and white that we would have seen at a time, but it's so interesting seeing all these people wearing these, well, you probably consider quite garish clothing now, but it's so interesting seeing them all, uh,

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[DEREK]: in these big colorful eight-fits back in the day.

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[DEREK]: Like it opens with just that great moment of the two women walking across the street as a cat and Ben go into the diner for their date.

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[DEREK]: And it all just seems so much more colorful and so much more bright than we're led to believe it is when we watch things a black and white, you know?

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[JOHN]: But yeah, absolutely.

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[JOHN]: I mean, it's really interesting how your view of the time is

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[DEREK]: basically completed by it being black and white which makes it so much more dreary exact sense and it's probably because we're all told that that's the depression era so it was black and white makes total sense for everything around them but everybody's using every color in the playbook to absolutely there's a really nice contrast to go between the black and white and the color yeah sure

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[DEREK]: This episode definitely color is the way to go, I think.

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[DEREK]: But let's get into our web shots as we break down our episode into the five major web shots that we have to talk about.

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[DEREK]: Our website, one is the origin story.

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[DEREK]: I love this because the first introduction we ever had in the cinematic universe of Spiderman War was in across the spiderverse where all of the characters have to have their intro story and finally we see the origin story of this Ben Riley in this universe where he sits down a cat and tells her old image how he got his powers.

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[JOHN]: Yes, I think this origin story really nice and timely for effectively the middle episodes really I just really enjoyed it You know we've kind of gotten snippets of it before we've gotten the hint with the photograph I like the fine that we see the photograph being taken

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[JOHN]: Post everything that's gone eat on in this German basal compound where the prisoners are not only being held But they're being tested on and you see Ben Riley going deep into this complex with Or other soldiers as they find this this room effectively were

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[JOHN]: It's just kind of really of it's day, it's really, I like the design of this that they're hooked up effectively to a jar with the insect or the thing in the jar and it's somehow is going into the bushroom.

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[JOHN]: So I mean, we do see a praying mantis, we see an eel, we see a snake and so on and we come to the spider were,

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[JOHN]: Um, you know, the particular subject here has is way more advanced.

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[JOHN]: I mean, unless there's anything going on under the bed sheets with the praying mantis one, or the snake one, and who knows, but that's right.

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[DEREK]: I wrote that review on Ben pulls back the, um, the bed sheets and sees that this.

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[JOHN]: We got a thorax with the spider, the face, like half human, half spider with the multiple eyes and yeah, really, really cool sort of design and I don't

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[DEREK]: Look, this straight from Man Spider in the comic books, Man Spider was basically when Peter Parker went to Savage Land, he was devolved into this version of himself where he was more spider than man, and that's what they represented here on screen.

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[DEREK]: This character that just is more is a spider, but also a human, a little bit of a circle.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, I mean certainly like whatever they've been doing down there this patient is way more developed or evolved than others by the looks of it and to that point, you know, you have the interesting conversation back in Millie's diner after the flashback has finished where Ben Riley is saying to count well I had to relearn how to be human yes I had to go to the movies and suppress these arachnid genes that kind of so it was there so

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[JOHN]: I mean he actually even says he took the case so that he could learn if his powers could be taken away and he could be just Ben Riley.

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[JOHN]: So this has been a skism for him, it's been a real big point in his life and I do like the fact that we see this flashback here.

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[JOHN]: at the photo back in the square once they've been released with the photo being taken.

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[JOHN]: And we also see that, you know, man's spider or the spider patient here, he's in the opening credits as well as.

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[JOHN]: And so we sort of able to piece all these things together.

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[JOHN]: I do like as well that they call it.

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[JOHN]: It was a German failed super soldier program.

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[JOHN]: So it's almost...

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[JOHN]: And as it's trying to sort of full tell what happens in a Captain America as well.

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[DEREK]: Yeah, I wonder as the research used here is what's used to create the supercells for the Americans back in the 40s, yeah.

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[JOHN]: Well, maybe because you do, you know, there is the army there, it's part of the army, so let's, you know, who knows what's in that serum.

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[JOHN]: Mm-hmm.

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[JOHN]: But it is, it's just a really nice origin story that comes out here, all set in the backdrop of,

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[JOHN]: that you know my story and she's like, well, tell it from the beginning.

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[JOHN]: So this is where we go back.

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[JOHN]: I do like the fact as well that the millies down is very nighthawks, that sort of famous Edward Hopper Oh, it's a very dear era and to some degree it is.

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[JOHN]: I think it's just the fact that it's a diner, but it's just the whole

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[JOHN]: Noir field to it, which is what Edward Hopper invokes with the nighthawks painting.

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[JOHN]: So it's just a really good opening.

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[JOHN]: It's great to get the origin story.

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[DEREK]: Absolutely, and the big difference that we hear with Spen is that he was paired from that moment onwards.

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[DEREK]: We only heard that the other characters were paired from the last six months or so.

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[DEREK]: But 15 years ago, Ben Riley was...

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[DEREK]: the spider from that moment on which has had these had these paras were quite cool.

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[JOHN]: Yeah absolutely shall we get into our web shot number D absolutely.

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[DEREK]: Back at the bugle are really really enjoyed and it's mostly just a scene But really enjoyed Rabbi Robertson in this episode.

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[DEREK]: He just is getting his confidence right back.

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[DEREK]: I love it It's like it's like a Robbie gets his groove back in this episode You know for the last couple of episodes we've seen him, you know eating

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[DEREK]: catch up sandwiches as a dinner we've we've been doing that it's a catch-up sandwich job you need something on it you the one that was saying was awful I was like it's just a sausage I'm a very big sandwich of that catch-up yeah my own wasn't a hmm it was

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[DEREK]: Yeah, what's that about it was the emphasis on the other syllable.

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[DEREK]: Yes, but he is back selling a story that nobody else could possibly sell to the bugle He's got all the information he's got amazing photographs and it's a self-debuting and he's allowed to or he wants to at least sell it with conditions the conditions are that he gets his desk back

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[DEREK]: in the bugle and they print a retraction on the previous story.

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[DEREK]: That's one of his other conditions, yeah.

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[DEREK]: That the story about the monsters I should New York City gets retracted and that the story that he had originally written about the police coming into attack.

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[DEREK]: A downtrodden area in New York gets reprinted in some way or gets corrected in some way, closer to what he originally written.

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[JOHN]: Yeah.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, no, I mean, it's a really great little moment here.

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[JOHN]: I like the fact he's, he has the, the star man is what dirt laden is called the electric powers man and we know him to be mega what ultimately, but the other one that they call here is, um, calling the conduct, uh, and so it all just like they have this

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[JOHN]: Well, he demands what is rightfully his, which is I wrote the story and you didn't do it, right?

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[JOHN]: So I want that retraction.

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[JOHN]: I've got this great story here for you now.

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[JOHN]: If you don't want it, I can go to the competitors of papers.

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[JOHN]: But if you do want it, well then I also want my desk back.

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[JOHN]: I do like the fact that in the end, he's got his desk, he's putting his name plate there, and he looks up from the desk, all these white faces looking back at him, and he's there and he goes, it's good to be back.

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[JOHN]: I think you said as well when we're watching it, and I totally agree, you know, the just seemed to be this sort of channeling of Eddie Murphy, you know, one of those great comedians, it just, it just...

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[JOHN]: that he doesn't seem to be bothered with all these eyes looking at him and he knows he deserves a place exactly there and he's like, he does look in the face.

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[DEREK]: But what other people think about whether he should be there or not, I absolutely love it.

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[DEREK]: It's just a great moment from Robbie where as he says, he's just setting up his desk, looking at what he's like, yeah, great to be back.

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[DEREK]: And I'm care that all these people are looking down at me.

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[DEREK]: I'm looking down on them because of the amazing story I've delivered and I'm gonna deliver a hundred more

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[DEREK]: of those types of stories, and you guys will be scrambling around in the dirt and look at some of the stories.

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[DEREK]: That's what Robbie brings, right?

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[DEREK]: He's the guy that will go ahead and find amazing stories for this newspaper.

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[DEREK]: That's why he's been given these concessions from the editor of the paper.

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[DEREK]: But yeah, little for the editor, Chris and the electric superhero as the conductor and goes, you know, because he was like working on the train and Robbie just looks back at him goes,

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[DEREK]: Comprehension wasn't the reason for my pause there, just great to have him back at the Beagle where he belongs, absolutely love it.

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[DEREK]: Yeah, let's move on to our third web shot.

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[DEREK]: Who would the person that's been treating all of the soups in New York is Dr. Faber and interestingly, and what we find out is that she knew exactly who the soups were.

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[DEREK]: She connected them all and she invited them all to participate in her trials, in her investigations.

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[DEREK]: They were all people that were in France at the same time.

21:56.422 --> 21:57.503
[DEREK]: They were all rescued from this

22:02.026 --> 22:16.187
[DEREK]: which makes sense when you think about that none of them have had any supercarers before six months ago that the reason why they've all been brought together over the last couple of the years is because of Dr. Faber reaching out to them.

22:16.837 --> 22:17.077
[JOHN]: Yeah.

22:17.537 --> 22:18.178
[JOHN]: Absolutely.

22:18.758 --> 22:21.860
[JOHN]: I like how we get introduced to Dr. Faber here.

22:21.880 --> 22:25.422
[JOHN]: You know, we have this conversation back at Ben Riley's office.

22:25.502 --> 22:34.107
[JOHN]: You know, why did Flint, Lonnie and so on, or get their powers now, and they're connecting it to this geneticist, Dr. Faber.

22:34.767 --> 22:38.509
[JOHN]: And as you say, there's Robbie kind of

22:46.253 --> 23:02.120
[JOHN]: you know, it kind of sets up this sort of like two-pronged attack to sort of for Robbie to visit the hospital whilst Ben Riley goes in via the skylight and the window all in all of it to get into the office.

23:02.600 --> 23:12.504
[JOHN]: One of the interesting things is her assistant and Ogden, yes, recognizes Ben Riley, ultimately, because he does get caught there.

23:13.065 --> 23:24.890
[JOHN]: There's a great exchange and it's really nice and intense, and it's cutting between Robbie speaking with Ogden, Dr. Faber, and about the four

23:25.610 --> 23:34.116
[JOHN]: patients that she's been seeing have had superpowers, she's kind of like, well, I see loads of patients and like, well, I think you would have known about these.

23:34.136 --> 23:37.138
[JOHN]: Um, you know, did you help these men?

23:37.158 --> 23:38.019
[JOHN]: Um, yeah.

23:38.580 --> 23:41.662
[JOHN]: The powers only seem to have started after seeing you.

23:41.682 --> 23:44.344
[JOHN]: So he's laying it out on the line here.

23:44.744 --> 23:48.227
[JOHN]: And I love the fact that Robbie strikes a nerve here.

23:48.247 --> 23:52.710
[JOHN]: And at the same time, Ben is rifling through her filing cabinets trying to get

23:53.170 --> 24:01.857
[JOHN]: the relevant files, finds this little secret section of the draw to get out the

24:03.808 --> 24:06.130
[JOHN]: the files but they're coming back already.

24:06.151 --> 24:18.223
[JOHN]: Here's the me gets caught but I love how he covers it as some one of the patients and he's like well I can see Dr Collins and he just keeps repeating the second floor the second floor.

24:18.824 --> 24:25.871
[JOHN]: But we have Ogden recognized Ben Riley as and as he said as the person who rescued them from the camp.

24:26.572 --> 24:31.516
[JOHN]: And nonetheless, the Ben has already made as a scape in that sense.

24:31.536 --> 24:36.961
[JOHN]: It's got the files out of the, but I like just how this plays out.

24:37.001 --> 24:38.062
[JOHN]: It's nice and tense.

24:38.162 --> 24:41.445
[JOHN]: It's nice and revealing with the information.

24:42.105 --> 24:52.034
[JOHN]: And I like how Robbie Strikeson of it sounds as though Ben Riley has caught a nerve and just can't stop repeating the second thing.

24:52.554 --> 25:02.842
[DEREK]: So good, but again, this is how you use Nicola, Nicola's case, like I know he's a great actor and I know he has some amazing moments and amazing movies.

25:03.643 --> 25:18.615
[DEREK]: He knows what he's good at as well, but I don't think he's always good at it, so finding a director to be able to channel him into something that's really interesting and finding an editor defined the bits that are really fun about what he does and what he's doing for a character is so important.

25:18.975 --> 25:20.276
[DEREK]: when you're using Nicolas Cage.

25:20.896 --> 25:36.725
[DEREK]: So here, seeing him go absolutely mental doing, I think a little bit of the three studios, what he has his hand over his over his forehead, and it seems like you're doing a little bit of mo, what he's trying to work out, which doctor he's supposed to be at,

25:37.105 --> 25:38.586
[DEREK]: and I love the Dr. Faber.

25:38.986 --> 25:41.467
[DEREK]: Sounds like she sees this every couple of days.

25:41.707 --> 25:48.410
[DEREK]: Someone arrives in her office who's going, is supposed to be downstairs at a different floor, looking for a different different doctor.

25:48.430 --> 25:54.913
[DEREK]: It just sounds like, okay, maybe he's chosen the rice way to play off, why he's in the room.

25:55.413 --> 25:59.194
[DEREK]: But yeah, so he gets all the files behind the window using his

26:00.595 --> 26:11.406
[DEREK]: My god, that weapon looks so difficult to get access to when they're running away and uh, Robbie's downstairs and Ben's downstairs and they're trying to get the files out of the webbing that he's created.

26:11.847 --> 26:13.328
[DEREK]: It looks so difficult.

26:13.389 --> 26:15.531
[DEREK]: It looks just massively glowy.

26:15.811 --> 26:16.392
[DEREK]: doesn't it?

26:16.432 --> 26:18.355
[JOHN]: Yeah, definitely.

26:18.555 --> 26:22.541
[DEREK]: Yeah, it's it's it's a really good visual, I think.

26:22.882 --> 26:30.473
[DEREK]: And then the last rate as they remove the files, it raises up just before Ogden arrives and it just has disappeared.

26:30.553 --> 26:31.955
[DEREK]: And Ogden wouldn't look up.

26:32.075 --> 26:37.999
[JOHN]: No, well, I mean, at this stage, they don't know that then Riley is the spider, so why would he look up?

26:38.019 --> 26:49.887
[JOHN]: But as far as he's concerned, he's just chasing after two people that have just effectively one has distracted them, one has broken into the office of his employer.

26:49.967 --> 26:54.090
[JOHN]: So, yeah, it's just, it's a really nice moment, I think here.

26:54.430 --> 26:54.651
[JOHN]: Yeah.

26:56.369 --> 27:00.232
[JOHN]: It gives you a little insight into Dr. Faber and her assistant, Ogden.

27:00.412 --> 27:12.520
[DEREK]: It just seems so angry when Robbie has suggested that she's the cause of the Paris coming out in the patients as well, that's the big thing for me for me.

27:12.540 --> 27:14.801
[JOHN]: I love the twisting of the knife.

27:14.982 --> 27:16.483
[JOHN]: Yeah, absolutely.

27:17.703 --> 27:21.626
[JOHN]: But should we get onto our webshot number four?

27:21.706 --> 27:22.206
[JOHN]: Absolutely.

27:26.952 --> 27:36.277
[JOHN]: Yes, I guess it's the supervillain team that is forming coalescing dare I say it around silver main.

27:36.697 --> 27:51.665
[JOHN]: We have flint marker really who has gone hook line and sinker back to silver main and it's taken silver main in a sense it's taken flint back into the fold.

27:52.325 --> 28:11.456
[DEREK]: new suits all this and we love that bone when woodflake goes to meet Lonnie who's still wearing the same clothes and wearing for a few days and he looks at Flint and he's like, well, okay, you are back with the boss and again another commentary on the time, basically, you know, we see Robbie fighting his way up

28:11.956 --> 28:37.948
[DEREK]: to being the greatest reporter of his time looking for the first black person to get a Pulitzer and you see Lonnie on the other side looking as Flint who is joined up with another white guy in New York and Lonnie's going, look, I'm not going to do one of the white guys betting, I'm not going to be the person that is losing himself to be an enforcer for another white criminal, you know, and

28:38.768 --> 28:40.009
[DEREK]: Friends going, it's not like that.

28:40.049 --> 28:42.891
[DEREK]: That's not how Silvermain treats the staff.

28:42.911 --> 28:44.692
[DEREK]: That's not just how Silvermain's treated me.

28:44.773 --> 28:46.234
[DEREK]: You will be welcome with open arms.

28:46.254 --> 28:59.744
[DEREK]: You will be one of the upper echelon of his team, which I really, really like a love that Silvermain has decided to surrender himself with everybody that's super parod that he can find in New York.

28:59.764 --> 29:00.925
[DEREK]: He will bring them on board.

29:01.405 --> 29:05.128
[DEREK]: All these people who are done driving, if they have super paroders, come on board, join

29:08.390 --> 29:09.171
[JOHN]: Yeah, absolutely.

29:09.411 --> 29:11.913
[JOHN]: Basically, get on the payroll.

29:12.013 --> 29:16.216
[JOHN]: I love the fact that he's sending flint to do that with Lonnie.

29:16.616 --> 29:19.818
[JOHN]: Like you say, I think Lonnie is response.

29:20.679 --> 29:22.741
[JOHN]: And I think this is what's really interesting.

29:22.761 --> 29:25.262
[JOHN]: It's just a nice little counterpoint to flint.

29:25.302 --> 29:28.725
[JOHN]: You know, flint has gone back into the arms of

29:32.948 --> 29:42.233
[JOHN]: despite, and again, well, you know, what happens at the avalanche club and his conversations with cat here in this episode.

29:43.174 --> 29:57.722
[JOHN]: But Lonnie's view is, well, I don't want to work for a Silver Man, I don't want to do another man, another white man's bidding or work, but he's also, you know, he clarifies that to find out, I'm not a criminal.

29:58.122 --> 30:00.203
[JOHN]: He knows that Silver Man is a criminal.

30:00.563 --> 30:06.407
[JOHN]: However, we do see Lonnie Lacer that Flint has clearly persuaded Lonnie to join Silverman.

30:06.427 --> 30:13.652
[JOHN]: He's now in a new outfit, he's looking brand new, and so on, and he's there at the club in, at the

30:22.698 --> 30:41.749
[JOHN]: about the slippery spider from the new you know he's got the the newspaper and the picture of the spider with the mirror and at the same time there's this modern music quote that's playing in the background what Silverman doesn't quite like bloody jazz exactly and

30:42.810 --> 30:45.431
[JOHN]: Then all of a sudden, Flint comes in, you know, to cat's surprise, which she hides it well.

30:45.451 --> 30:47.612
[JOHN]: And Lonnie has joined the band, so to speak.

30:47.632 --> 31:03.299
[JOHN]: But there's an interesting moment here, because it's just all very kind of wink, wink, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose, nose

31:03.499 --> 31:21.516
[JOHN]: Well, what I found most intriguing about this was as Silver Man is effectively saying, look, Cass, and make yourself scarce, really, because the boys have got to speak care business, you know, so this is, this is the classic wig going to the cigar room.

31:21.876 --> 31:26.300
[DEREK]: Yeah, yeah, that's, it's really interesting, isn't it's like, yeah, go, go off and powder your nose.

31:26.580 --> 31:35.256
[JOHN]: Exactly, but as she leaves, it's like, oh, whilst you're at it, you know, you could look into maybe a new band role than this one that you've got and

31:38.438 --> 31:51.521
[JOHN]: But also, you could look for a new singer, one that's younger and beautiful, suggesting that potentially her shelf life is coming to an abrupt end here.

31:51.581 --> 32:02.804
[JOHN]: This is right in front of Flint, and right in front of Lonnie as he says it, maybe it is to get some kind of reaction, possibly, because I think Silverman is

32:08.525 --> 32:13.508
[JOHN]: there's more cute than he's possibly making out here.

32:13.949 --> 32:18.452
[DEREK]: And then I do love the phrase that he used to describe her.

32:18.472 --> 32:23.655
[DEREK]: It's a very, a phrase I've heard very, very often that she's full of piston vinegar today.

32:23.715 --> 32:25.396
[DEREK]: Yeah, really like that.

32:26.097 --> 32:29.939
[DEREK]: When you find a person like that, you need to cut a down to size, right?

32:29.959 --> 32:33.522
[DEREK]: So that is very much similar means a attitude here with her.

32:34.357 --> 32:35.478
[JOHN]: Yeah, no, absolutely.

32:36.219 --> 32:52.095
[JOHN]: And then the other member of the super, super villain team, I should say, that kind of gets recruited is dirt Clayton, the actor who has been interrogated at the

32:53.481 --> 32:55.002
[JOHN]: police station.

32:55.382 --> 33:01.905
[JOHN]: To be honest, I think he sounds very like the penguin just the way he is I thought he would be.

33:03.006 --> 33:11.530
[JOHN]: And you have a flint and Lonnie arriving to effectively break him out of out of prison.

33:12.111 --> 33:17.333
[JOHN]: When he sees them, he's like hello fellas, he clearly see he was also a

33:21.787 --> 33:30.880
[JOHN]: little interaction here, one because firstly, you realize laden is a bit of a loose cannon, mental.

33:30.940 --> 33:36.007
[DEREK]: Yeah, like so, I love that still, Silverman says after a huge kind of

33:37.359 --> 33:41.881
[JOHN]: the atrical kind of speech from Dick Layton towards him.

33:41.901 --> 33:44.883
[JOHN]: He says, you like to talk, don't you.

33:45.703 --> 33:49.846
[JOHN]: Now you can listen, you know, I love it and it's so good.

33:50.086 --> 34:01.352
[DEREK]: It's the lines from Dirk, you know, he's quoting Shakespeare through right, the fighting and then when he's told to listen, he's like, ah, I'm like in a brask and cornfield, and silver

34:07.535 --> 34:14.742
[JOHN]: Um, have an interesting moment where laden takes his revenge on the guy who's been beating him up by giving him an electric kiss.

34:14.762 --> 34:15.382
[JOHN]: Yeah.

34:15.402 --> 34:19.046
[JOHN]: I like that silverman just like, well, that was weird as they walk out.

34:19.086 --> 34:26.613
[JOHN]: But effectively, you have, uh, Dirk laden here being brought into this super villain team.

34:26.673 --> 34:30.176
[JOHN]: So we have a flint, Dirk and lying here.

34:30.376 --> 34:42.040
[DEREK]: Yeah, and as dedication is, I have but one life, oh, I wish I could give you more, but I will take plenty as his dedication to working for several men.

34:42.160 --> 34:42.921
[DEREK]: I absolutely love it.

34:43.141 --> 34:43.741
[DEREK]: Really good.

34:44.001 --> 34:49.363
[DEREK]: And very quickly, Silvermain uses this team to intimidate a little of this.

34:49.403 --> 34:55.285
[DEREK]: He invites Ben Riley over to his house and tells him, you know, you're a mate the spider.

34:55.726 --> 34:56.306
[DEREK]: We need to

34:57.046 --> 34:58.007
[DEREK]: get on side here.

34:58.667 --> 35:07.152
[DEREK]: This is my team that are going up against Marmaris to for control the city and it would be really good of the spider to step out of this one.

35:07.792 --> 35:14.396
[DEREK]: Even though he doesn't specifically know that Ben Riley is the spider he's telling him to tell his mate to the spider to step out of this one.

35:14.736 --> 35:18.578
[DEREK]: It doesn't he doesn't belong in this argument between silver

35:22.560 --> 35:23.401
[JOHN]: No, absolutely.

35:23.441 --> 35:30.870
[JOHN]: I think the other interesting moments here is you have been Riley clearly going after Durklaid.

35:30.950 --> 35:33.373
[JOHN]: Yeah, I'm trying to rile him up.

35:33.453 --> 35:34.635
[JOHN]: You see, Durk.

35:35.832 --> 35:58.587
[JOHN]: clicking his flame on from the electricity, and you know, you have silverment in calm down, but equally flims and loony of the and flint confronts Ben, knowing that he covered cat before and through Winston on to the bus, basically, he says, look, you have one pass because

36:01.869 --> 36:09.351
[JOHN]: Yeah, Ben Riley leaves him with something to think on, you know, a hot dog at the game is better than a roast at the rits.

36:09.891 --> 36:12.972
[JOHN]: I'm not entirely sure how this plays out, or what it means.

36:13.352 --> 36:20.275
[DEREK]: Is it good to have one hot dog at a massive stadium with people that are there for to watch their team play sports?

36:20.315 --> 36:20.995
[DEREK]: Is that what it is?

36:21.615 --> 36:24.176
[DEREK]: Or go to the rits for a roast beef?

36:24.836 --> 36:25.236
[BEN REILLY]: I can't know.

36:26.071 --> 36:28.534
[JOHN]: Yeah, I guess it's something to do.

36:28.735 --> 36:43.474
[JOHN]: It depends on the company you keep amazing it something like that you're here having roast dinner at the rits This all it's all refined and fine because silver man is paying for it, but actually

36:44.014 --> 36:52.516
[JOHN]: your person who has the hot dog at the baseball game or the footy game with your team, with your team, with your mates.

36:53.636 --> 37:00.958
[JOHN]: Isn't that more, you know, your camaraderie, almost with your, um, or the soldiers from the P.R.W., so be that.

37:01.138 --> 37:03.799
[JOHN]: I guess he's going at it in that way.

37:04.319 --> 37:10.000
[JOHN]: But as a result of all that, you have then been going to a cat to warn her about Flint.

37:16.963 --> 37:27.109
[DEREK]: Oh, Catherine's again is our final web shot for this episode because, well, she's got loads of information that she didn't have for this episode.

37:27.169 --> 37:27.769
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

37:27.829 --> 37:29.990
[JOHN]: She is the femme fatale.

37:30.711 --> 37:32.372
[JOHN]: Leeslips, synchips.

37:32.432 --> 37:34.353
[JOHN]: She's a femme fatale.

37:34.653 --> 37:35.434
[DEREK]: Yes.

37:36.434 --> 37:40.296
[DEREK]: First off, we have all the conversations that we're going on with, uh,

37:41.437 --> 37:46.940
[DEREK]: So for main, telling her that she may not be able to keep her job even though she owns the club.

37:46.960 --> 37:50.663
[DEREK]: That's the first kind of sign that she's on shaky grain here.

37:51.403 --> 37:57.026
[DEREK]: But yes, also we have Ben telling her, or asking her to run away with him to Santorini.

37:57.507 --> 38:01.249
[DEREK]: The black-sanded place that she wanted to go to.

38:01.949 --> 38:05.191
[DEREK]: He's telling her, we could run away together, we could live a good life.

38:05.532 --> 38:07.693
[DEREK]: He's willing to give up absolutely everything for her.

38:08.353 --> 38:18.060
[DEREK]: Love had that all supplies out through at the episode, you know, Ben has been on his own since his his possible fiancé Ruby past away five years ago.

38:18.161 --> 38:22.784
[DEREK]: He's been Down in the dumps and everybody else that those in Robby and Janus are going.

38:22.804 --> 38:24.966
[DEREK]: Yes, you absolutely should pursue this.

38:24.986 --> 38:25.786
[DEREK]: There's no problem.

38:26.166 --> 38:28.228
[DEREK]: Go find the person that you love

38:29.889 --> 38:35.272
[DEREK]: But I do find it interesting, as we say, you know, the setup here for Kat is that she is the femme fatale of the show.

38:35.292 --> 38:43.498
[DEREK]: I find it really interesting that in the first episode, the introduction of Kat was him seeing this drunken schlobe guy.

38:43.538 --> 38:46.700
[DEREK]: I'm looking at him going, well, either he has a lot of money.

38:47.757 --> 38:54.680
[DEREK]: or he's possessed of a great sense of humor, or he's absolutely not the husband of this character.

38:55.100 --> 39:02.263
[DEREK]: And here we are five episodes of the show where Ben's asking Cat to run away with him for the rest of his life and all his friends are gone.

39:02.283 --> 39:03.143
[DEREK]: Yeah, you should do it.

39:03.163 --> 39:04.144
[DEREK]: You should absolutely do it.

39:04.424 --> 39:05.964
[DEREK]: You'll never find a better chance than this.

39:06.625 --> 39:13.327
[DEREK]: Does Ben have his Ben possessed of a huge amount of money or a great personality?

39:13.727 --> 39:14.368
[DEREK]: I don't know, yes.

39:15.892 --> 39:20.394
[DEREK]: No, it feels really early in the rush to bring him to give up everything in a way.

39:20.574 --> 39:22.995
[JOHN]: Yeah, I'm not too sure either.

39:23.015 --> 39:28.558
[JOHN]: I think what's interesting though is not only does Ben kind of...

39:30.245 --> 39:33.606
[JOHN]: it out to cats saying, you know, I'm willing to take a chance.

39:34.066 --> 39:42.989
[JOHN]: I don't want to stop chasing ghosts around, you know, his own wife and also to cat around Flint.

39:43.089 --> 39:50.132
[JOHN]: You know, he's effectively saying, look, Flint has gone because he tells her that he is dying from the experiments that he was

39:55.354 --> 40:06.595
[JOHN]: Dr. Faber has accelerated his condition and each time he uses it, it's another step closer to being six feet under effect, so he tells her this and

40:09.729 --> 40:18.318
[JOHN]: As a result of that, you know, this is on her mind when Lonnie goes to cat to say, you know, you need to come and speak with Flint.

40:18.398 --> 40:24.444
[JOHN]: And you see, Flint pushing out bullets from under skin, which is quite a nice little touch.

40:24.464 --> 40:26.586
[JOHN]: Yeah, really nice touch.

40:26.866 --> 40:30.950
[JOHN]: And you have this in a sense break up because, um,

40:32.992 --> 40:52.116
[JOHN]: cat is saying, well, I wouldn't be behind your back trying to kill self-man because I knew you won't be able to because you're loyal to him to a fault, but he retorts to say, I would have killed him myself, but you know, she doesn't think that he would have done.

40:52.536 --> 40:53.576
[JOHN]: And she's told him that.

40:54.036 --> 40:55.657
[JOHN]: So in this moment he

40:57.300 --> 41:07.848
[JOHN]: Again, betrayed, you know, they have that nice moment where he slams one of the supporting beams and it's Lonnie, he catches it to stop it from falling apart.

41:07.868 --> 41:08.489
[JOHN]: Yeah, I can't.

41:08.669 --> 41:10.590
[JOHN]: Absolutely, you would have been down that moment.

41:11.030 --> 41:20.017
[JOHN]: But all of this plays into how the femme fatale becomes fatal in this moment for the Ben Riley.

41:20.318 --> 41:21.979
[JOHN]: Because you have Lonnie saying,

41:24.088 --> 41:35.197
[JOHN]: This Dr. Faber, the only thing to help is the spider, because then she thinks that the mutation is different, but she has no idea who he is or were to find him.

41:35.937 --> 41:38.639
[JOHN]: And the person he's talking to, knows us.

41:39.620 --> 41:50.230
[JOHN]: So, in the moments as Favour and Ogden are fleeing their office because they feel they've been found out by Robbie and his slew thing.

41:50.871 --> 41:58.858
[JOHN]: I do like the fact that as well just slightly earlier, we have Robbie giving Ben a day before he publishes the story because he goes, I'm not losing his.

41:59.298 --> 42:00.339
[JOHN]: You know, I've...

42:00.980 --> 42:01.861
[JOHN]: going to make a living.

42:01.941 --> 42:02.782
[JOHN]: Absolutely.

42:03.102 --> 42:04.743
[JOHN]: But there's a master story too.

42:05.124 --> 42:13.331
[JOHN]: Cat immediately tells them that the spider is bent right and close credits.

42:13.491 --> 42:14.632
[JOHN]: And it's great.

42:14.893 --> 42:16.934
[JOHN]: It's a really good cliffhanger.

42:16.994 --> 42:25.162
[JOHN]: I like how this, you know, these emotional twists and turns sort of progress through the story, you know, you go from effectively

42:27.167 --> 42:31.309
[JOHN]: Ben pouring his heart out to cat, cat has done that previously.

42:31.829 --> 42:41.613
[JOHN]: It's let's go away, run away together to the old flame, ultimately still being an important part of Cat's story.

42:42.073 --> 42:50.156
[JOHN]: And it moving towards revealing everything that Ben doesn't want people to know about him.

42:50.236 --> 42:52.857
[JOHN]: So I thought this was really good, really liked it.

42:53.297 --> 42:55.438
[JOHN]: I liked that the femme fatale became fatal.

42:55.738 --> 42:56.258
[JOHN]: Absolutely.

42:56.398 --> 42:56.718
[DEREK]: I'll show it.

42:56.798 --> 42:58.699
[DEREK]: I'll show it to you all the time.

42:58.759 --> 43:01.119
[DEREK]: Always well, really, really cool.

43:01.599 --> 43:05.880
[DEREK]: Really love this idea and you're still kind of questioning again, five episodes in.

43:06.460 --> 43:12.681
[DEREK]: Who is Kat and who she really dedicated to is, would she ever run away with Fent Marco?

43:13.121 --> 43:15.882
[DEREK]: If he hadn't got the Paris, could she run away with him now?

43:16.082 --> 43:19.502
[DEREK]: If the Paris would take it away from him and it became Fent Marco again?

43:19.903 --> 43:21.003
[DEREK]: Or does she really love

43:22.283 --> 43:26.044
[DEREK]: Ben Riley, who's telling her, well, Felt Mark has dared anyway.

43:26.364 --> 43:31.485
[DEREK]: You might as well run away with me, which is a very different proposition than I'm in love with you.

43:31.505 --> 43:32.925
[DEREK]: We should spend the rest of our life together.

43:32.946 --> 43:36.846
[DEREK]: So yeah, love this twist in the story once again.

43:37.046 --> 43:37.687
[JOHN]: Exactly.

43:38.067 --> 43:42.088
[JOHN]: But there's also part of me like thinking, is she being set up here by Lonnie?

43:42.108 --> 43:44.028
[JOHN]: Because it's just the way he delivers it.

43:44.048 --> 43:46.629
[JOHN]: Well, you know, not just Lonnie, but Silverman.

43:47.009 --> 43:50.730
[JOHN]: It's even just Riley at Silverman's.

43:52.290 --> 44:03.172
[JOHN]: You know, silver means they're again, well, I'm telling you to warm the spider and my fighters with Morris, so you need to stay out of it in your own best interest.

44:04.319 --> 44:08.780
[JOHN]: And I'm like, is he doing this because he knows possibly that Ben is the spider already?

44:09.380 --> 44:11.421
[JOHN]: And I don't know for sure.

44:12.341 --> 44:15.602
[JOHN]: And I don't, yes, I'm not entirely convinced that's the case.

44:15.662 --> 44:24.165
[JOHN]: But it's just the way, you know, Lonnie absolutely tees up here to say, well, you know,

44:25.065 --> 44:40.174
[JOHN]: his dying, his conditions getting worse, the only thing that can help is the spider because Dr. Faber thinks or believes that the mutation is different, but she doesn't know who he is or where he is.

44:40.314 --> 44:42.595
[JOHN]: But how does she know that the mutation is to it?

44:43.216 --> 44:48.038
[JOHN]: Basically, it's a working theory of Dr. Faber, that somehow Lonnie is to it.

44:48.278 --> 44:50.660
[JOHN]: I don't know, but there's also I'm like going,

44:54.542 --> 44:58.303
[JOHN]: you know, and trappedments effectively fall in some way.

44:58.764 --> 45:01.865
[JOHN]: But I don't think it is, but I'm just wondering.

45:02.105 --> 45:14.690
[DEREK]: I think the big thing that we've learned from this episode is the spider has been around for 15 years and all the rest of these kids who were POWs during World War I, they've only got their powers in the last six months.

45:15.350 --> 45:21.415
[DEREK]: and they're going to be killed by these paras if they don't find the person that can stabilize them.

45:21.435 --> 45:24.457
[DEREK]: So the big difference with the spider is he seems to have been

45:25.301 --> 45:27.402
[DEREK]: stabilized by whatever with the difference.

45:27.983 --> 45:29.143
[DEREK]: We saw out of the flashback.

45:29.624 --> 45:31.445
[DEREK]: I think the big difference is that he was bitten.

45:31.465 --> 45:34.927
[DEREK]: He wasn't experimented on and he was bitten by somebody who had the powers.

45:34.987 --> 45:42.111
[JOHN]: So it wasn't intravenously drift with the essence of, uh, yes, because I didn't point know how that works.

45:42.131 --> 45:46.013
[DEREK]: The essence of spider, you know, the surrounding of spider.

45:46.033 --> 45:46.774
[DEREK]: Yeah.

45:46.814 --> 45:48.975
[JOHN]: So, I mean, yeah, no, I agree.

45:49.315 --> 45:50.156
[JOHN]: I think it's just the,

45:51.287 --> 45:58.314
[JOHN]: It's just the way Lonnie said it, I'm like, it feels too deliberate, but that might just be the detective noir thing.

45:58.514 --> 46:02.719
[JOHN]: Yeah, you know, but I'm also thinking, I know it's a detective noir.

46:02.799 --> 46:03.500
[JOHN]: I'm loving it.

46:03.860 --> 46:09.666
[JOHN]: Well, maybe the twist on the whole thing is that actually they're also being played.

46:09.846 --> 46:10.006
[JOHN]: Yeah.

46:10.086 --> 46:12.148
[JOHN]: Because silver main is that well connected.

46:12.229 --> 46:12.909
[JOHN]: All right, maybe.

46:14.613 --> 46:19.519
[DEREK]: One interesting idea, but John, I am like a Nebraska cornfield.

46:19.859 --> 46:23.203
[DEREK]: I am all ears for whether you defend this episode.

46:23.223 --> 46:26.447
[DEREK]: Do you defend the spider-to-war episode five?

46:26.947 --> 46:28.509
[DEREK]: I really, really do.

46:28.950 --> 46:32.273
[JOHN]: I'd give this five electrifying snow.

46:32.373 --> 46:32.694
[JOHN]: I see.

46:33.054 --> 46:34.215
[BEN REILLY]: out of five.

46:34.336 --> 46:37.019
[JOHN]: I absolutely love I love this episode from start to finish.

46:37.099 --> 46:46.750
[JOHN]: I think the opening in Millie's Diner threw to the massive betrayal of cat to Ben Riley and that cliffhanger.

46:48.491 --> 46:50.153
[JOHN]: It was just really, really good.

46:50.293 --> 47:04.123
[JOHN]: I love the flashback, I loved seeing that, I loved how Dr. Faber and her assistant were incorporated into the story with Robbie and Janice and finding more out about this team

47:15.472 --> 47:25.225
[JOHN]: The incessant sort of intrigue with Silverman as for me actually is he seems to know more than these letting on and I'm like is this just part of it?

47:26.166 --> 47:27.968
[JOHN]: Is he tame people up?

47:28.429 --> 47:32.054
[JOHN]: Is he that kind of well connected?

47:33.015 --> 47:35.356
[JOHN]: because he's such a powerful person.

47:35.656 --> 47:42.217
[JOHN]: I mean, at the end of the day, if he is saying, well, I run this city, who's to say he's not, you know?

47:42.297 --> 47:42.677
[JOHN]: Well, yeah.

47:43.477 --> 47:46.558
[JOHN]: And he's taking on the mayor for that.

47:46.578 --> 47:50.859
[DEREK]: Oh, just bread and police and always come across as really, really valuable.

47:51.059 --> 47:52.479
[JOHN]: It might also be that.

47:53.239 --> 47:55.920
[JOHN]: And yeah, I love all the,

47:56.320 --> 48:05.449
[JOHN]: Tipped the tap between Riley and Flynn's, Ebb between Riley and Silverman, laden was great to see just seeing how unhinged he was.

48:05.469 --> 48:05.990
[JOHN]: Oh, that's so good.

48:06.250 --> 48:12.096
[DEREK]: And that's seen where Ben is attacking laden, where he's like, oh, have you been in the stage?

48:12.156 --> 48:13.377
[DEREK]: Have you been in the stage in West End?

48:13.397 --> 48:15.339
[DEREK]: Or did you just drive underneath his driver?

48:15.559 --> 48:17.101
[DEREK]: Where he's attacking him because...

48:17.621 --> 48:44.875
[DEREK]: you know Ben's so angry that he put this guy behind bars the previous day but can't tell anybody else because that would reveal he's the spider it's all it's all there on screen but it's so well delivered by that was okay to actually love it so for me this episode had everything so yeah five electrifying snogs out of five fantastic that's a deck to you defend this episode of

48:45.715 --> 48:46.536
[JOHN]: Spider-Man.

48:46.736 --> 48:49.738
[DEREK]: Yeah, much like yourself, absolutely loved this episode.

48:49.858 --> 49:00.666
[DEREK]: I thought it really progressed the story really well, revealed the femme fatale for what she is, a femme fatale willing to protect her former lover by throwing her new lover under the bus.

49:01.006 --> 49:11.474
[DEREK]: I felt really sorry for broadband, he's about to give up his entire life with the support of all of his friends, her role in his site, to run away and maybe work it in bar potentially.

49:16.578 --> 49:23.444
[DEREK]: His new girlfriend is a bite to throw him under the bus for his old girlfriend, but that's part of the story though, isn't it in a noir tale?

49:23.584 --> 49:26.407
[DEREK]: So, uh, all really, really enjoyable.

49:26.447 --> 49:29.750
[DEREK]: I can't wait to see what we get in the next episode of the show.

49:30.130 --> 49:30.951
[JOHN]: Yeah, absolutely.

49:30.971 --> 49:31.972
[JOHN]: Really, really good.

49:32.072 --> 49:32.772
[JOHN]: Great stuff.

49:33.073 --> 49:35.295
[DEREK]: Shall we get into our feedback?

49:35.375 --> 49:36.376
[DEREK]: Yeah, absolutely.

49:36.456 --> 49:39.158
[DEREK]: Let's hear from our wonderful fellow defenders.

49:39.218 --> 49:40.760
[DEREK]: First up, we got an email in from coffee vodka.

49:41.500 --> 49:46.704
[JOHN]: Yes, a coffee invited to say is greeting fellow Dane Duped Defenders.

49:47.444 --> 49:55.890
[JOHN]: With half of the sinister six gathered and origin story revealed, in the most so many way possible, the series begins to show a crackle too.

49:56.330 --> 49:59.453
[JOHN]: Nick, however, smooths them over quite effectively.

50:00.313 --> 50:04.156
[JOHN]: Nothing quite like seeing a six-two-year-old hoof through a firefight.

50:04.616 --> 50:19.538
[JOHN]: Not so much bulletproof as bullet-done with it all, and his dynasty gave us a small taste of the maniac, so happy camper me, also loving the nod to the classic cinema from below the sea last episode to Freaks in this one.

50:19.838 --> 50:41.813
[JOHN]: There's nothing subtle here, just over the top villains, conflicted hero, typically tragic love triangle, and all the era's stereotypes under a single roof, finally nice to see Robbie get a win definitely before, timely tombstones and playing physicians and caffeinated facials out of five, piece and take care.

50:42.613 --> 50:45.255
[DEREK]: Coffee in vodka, fantastic coffee.

50:45.375 --> 51:10.773
[DEREK]: Okay, yeah, totally agree with you just the the tropes from the era are ever present here I love the thing that Ben mentions about how he got back to being himself as by watching movies So that's another little way in as to why they're using specific movie tropes my description and my notes of the battle of liberation the small town Eastern France was explosions will helm scream chaser and shadows

51:11.693 --> 51:18.034
[DEREK]: And all of those are perfect tropes to show off the battle that's there, really like that.

51:18.074 --> 51:26.456
[JOHN]: To be honest, I actually think Shaisu was my first swore that actually learned just purely from comic books because it was always in there.

51:26.536 --> 51:31.817
[JOHN]: I can't remember what the the name of the comic was, but actually it was sort of furious.

51:31.877 --> 51:33.417
[JOHN]: Well, no, it was Sergeant Fury.

51:33.517 --> 51:37.418
[JOHN]: It was absolutely wasn't that's why kind of like when we met it was like,

51:38.799 --> 51:47.289
[JOHN]: But it was like a compilation comic of having Marvel stuff in there and yeah, there was probably some other more British comic strips as well But um

51:48.458 --> 51:55.084
[JOHN]: It was just, there was always Shiza, and it was like, okay, that was my first word.

51:55.124 --> 51:56.565
[DEREK]: I love it.

51:57.786 --> 52:00.628
[DEREK]: Thank you so much, Kathy, for your thoughts.

52:00.708 --> 52:02.289
[DEREK]: We'll move on to Discord.

52:02.790 --> 52:08.915
[DEREK]: I didn't mention this earlier on, so I'm leaving it to Joe Herbst to say, why I was so excited for one of the background characters.

52:09.415 --> 52:12.377
[DEREK]: Joe Herpes says great to see Andrew Robinson in this.

52:12.757 --> 52:20.241
[DEREK]: Most of us know him best as Garrick in Deep Space 9, though I remember I first saw him as the villain in the original dirty Harry movie.

52:20.561 --> 52:23.462
[DEREK]: Not my favorite episode though, we didn't learn that many things.

52:23.803 --> 52:32.007
[DEREK]: If the spider had disappeared for years, I could see the mutant soldiers despairing at not being able to get his help in finding a cure for their bizarre afflictions, but

52:32.347 --> 52:45.241
[DEREK]: Now, he's appeared again, most notably to face off against one of their own, so it seems like they might have tried to find a way to get it as a tensioned long enough to ask for his help, especially since they just saw Silverman ask Ben to give a message to the spider.

52:45.521 --> 52:46.242
[DEREK]: Thanks for that, Joe.

52:46.562 --> 52:51.007
[DEREK]: That's a really interesting point that you make, you know, Lonnie telling Cass, you know, well,

52:51.547 --> 52:52.928
[DEREK]: The whole world is done.

52:53.228 --> 52:53.988
[DEREK]: We are over.

52:54.048 --> 53:04.854
[DEREK]: We're all going to die soon because we can't find Spydery yet they're all in a room with Silverman who's going, Ben Rally, you tell Spydery to stay out of this one, maybe they should probably turn up to Ben Rally's house as a go.

53:05.194 --> 53:09.576
[DEREK]: Ben Rally, could you also ask Spydery to come over and give us a DNA sample so that we can do it?

53:09.596 --> 53:10.997
[DEREK]: Well, yeah, and maybe not that.

53:11.077 --> 53:13.598
[JOHN]: No, there's a lot of truth in that from Joe.

53:13.698 --> 53:18.661
[JOHN]: Yeah, I will still stand behind my five electrifying snogs there because, yes, agreed.

53:19.401 --> 53:22.703
[JOHN]: they could quite easily have done the normal thing in just to ask.

53:22.863 --> 53:26.505
[JOHN]: Yeah, and what was the fun in that showdown?

53:26.685 --> 53:32.909
[JOHN]: Well, I guess it is what the shareholders are thinking, but I do absolutely get your point there.

53:33.349 --> 53:34.329
[DEREK]: Yeah, absolutely.

53:34.770 --> 53:39.873
[DEREK]: But Joe also makes a great point about the performance of Andrew Robinson in their suit plays.

53:39.893 --> 53:43.154
[DEREK]: I've done the son of Dr. Faber.

53:43.795 --> 53:45.176
[DEREK]: Andrew Robinson.

53:45.956 --> 54:00.640
[DEREK]: Honestly, I know he was garrick in Star Trek at Deespace 9, one of my favorite characters in Star Trek T-choice 9, but he also was such a central character in Hellrazer, another of my absolute favorite movies of all time.

54:00.660 --> 54:12.163
[DEREK]: We had the writer of Hellrazer working on Good Omen recently, we had the main female actors of Hellrazer in Sandman recently, and now we have Andrew Robertson back, and now in the Marvel Universe.

54:12.683 --> 54:20.712
[DEREK]: Oh, hell, Razor fans like me are eating good, what the sights to show what we have such a size to show you.

54:20.752 --> 54:30.102
[DEREK]: Yes, absolutely amazing all these characters here, and so yeah, it's really excited to see how the Robins team is so fantastic as Garrick and Star Trek.

54:30.162 --> 54:30.683
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

54:30.783 --> 54:34.727
[JOHN]: Yeah, such a good deep space nine and deep space as well.

54:34.927 --> 54:36.028
[JOHN]: Of course, of course it is.

54:36.048 --> 54:37.228
[DEREK]: Love all science fiction.

54:37.528 --> 54:38.189
[JOHN]: Absolutely.

54:38.229 --> 54:38.709
[JOHN]: Thanks, Joe.

54:38.829 --> 54:39.589
[JOHN]: Yeah, thanks, Joe.

54:40.250 --> 54:48.994
[JOHN]: Dr. Bob says, Criky shades of the boys with the bayonets, grenades, and intimately familiar spider as the origin of the spider.

54:49.594 --> 54:56.997
[JOHN]: Maglectro is a cracking addition to the array of outfielders with all the show-boting you had expect of a Joker.

54:57.478 --> 55:01.720
[JOHN]: And I loved the palliative stoneball extrusions.

55:02.400 --> 55:08.084
[JOHN]: Tiny things, but I really love the on-high shot of Blint getting out of the taxi.

55:08.584 --> 55:15.369
[JOHN]: Shadows of the ordinary people telling their stories, then switch to the knee-high shooting of the nascent supervillain.

55:15.969 --> 55:21.473
[JOHN]: And I want to be alone and the precursor to more kissy kiss with

55:28.097 --> 55:42.050
[JOHN]: I think there's just some really good feel like directing and camera placements here across this and I think I think it's interesting, you know, you work you know, whether it's maybe

55:43.683 --> 55:45.945
[JOHN]: the type of film stock that you use.

55:45.985 --> 56:00.858
[JOHN]: So it's just like a Christopher Nolan using IMAX or, you know, super-rate stuff that's commonly talked about or whether it's using in a different medium and of some description or like

56:01.338 --> 56:12.123
[JOHN]: the use of black and white because that notion of the shadow, like you say, as well, it's just really, really well played within this black and white.

56:12.143 --> 56:27.050
[JOHN]: And that's the interesting choice of it moving from black and white to color and the choice and you hear them talk about it as the show runner, just say the whole intention was to do it black and white to really go in for that.

56:27.770 --> 56:28.451
[JOHN]: film the one.

56:28.531 --> 56:36.496
[JOHN]: I think it just gives certain shots real atmosphere, but at the same time you then see it in the color as well.

56:36.556 --> 56:46.082
[JOHN]: So I really enjoyed, as you say, some of just the shots here really, really well done.

56:46.263 --> 56:46.823
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

56:46.923 --> 56:50.405
[DEREK]: This episode, particularly, I would choose to go color for this one.

56:50.425 --> 56:52.847
[DEREK]: I think it was absolutely beautifully shot in color.

56:54.408 --> 57:00.796
[DEREK]: I don't know why I think it's because there's so much time spent in the prison, and the prison and black and white fell flat.

57:01.576 --> 57:10.146
[DEREK]: To me it didn't, it felt like they were on a set, whereas in color it felt, it didn't stand out as much, but the rest of the episode looked beautiful.

57:10.226 --> 57:11.928
[DEREK]: So yeah, really, really good.

57:12.489 --> 57:13.310
[DEREK]: Thanks so much, Dr Bob.

57:13.410 --> 57:14.491
[DEREK]: Yeah, thanks, Dr Bob.

57:15.172 --> 57:21.556
[DEREK]: Moving onto Facebook for our final piece of feedback, we got some thoughts in from Drew Wally on our earlier podcast.

57:21.576 --> 57:24.978
[DEREK]: You said I'm really enjoying this series and I've recommended to some of my friends.

57:25.299 --> 57:26.779
[DEREK]: Can't wait to hear your thoughts too.

57:27.080 --> 57:31.623
[DEREK]: I was tempted to binge away the original black and white when I heard you guys were going to be covering it.

57:31.923 --> 57:33.424
[DEREK]: I took a pause after episode three.

57:33.744 --> 57:38.467
[DEREK]: Now that it watched three episodes of black and white, I've enjoyed going back to rewatched color after your commentary.

57:38.807 --> 57:41.067
[DEREK]: plan to continue this way through the season.

57:41.428 --> 57:43.188
[DEREK]: Quick notes from you have said three podcasts.

57:43.488 --> 58:00.131
[DEREK]: I first would have guessed James Cagley from a search on my end, I believe Nick Cage was going for Edward G. Robbins and Impression from his hospital interrogation on rewatch caught him even referring to Edward G when he was giving Frankie instructions to for standing in as him while he was of the cast grab.

58:00.491 --> 58:03.412
[DEREK]: And yes, Green Spot would have been around in 1933.

58:03.552 --> 58:05.152
[DEREK]: Cheers guys from Drew.

58:08.733 --> 58:34.561
[DEREK]: Edward G. Robinson is exactly the person I was thinking of from the yeah you're standing over there see that's that's very much the the thought I was going over so thank you so much yeah for clarifying that and we talked about the greenspost piece of the last six episode on last time's episode where we knew we we know now it was around from the 1800s and and modeled its way through prohibition era and we didn't get red spots in this episode

58:36.502 --> 58:39.905
[JOHN]: So it might be later on in the episodes who knows.

58:39.966 --> 58:42.588
[DEREK]: In fact, I probably won't be, but who knows.

58:42.628 --> 58:44.650
[DEREK]: In fact, we didn't do a whiskey watch for the substance.

58:44.670 --> 58:49.135
[DEREK]: I don't remember any specific whiskey moments in this episode.

58:49.155 --> 58:51.237
[DEREK]: There was a pie moment, but I don't remember with you.

58:51.297 --> 58:54.600
[JOHN]: I'm at this, and that's my argument.

58:55.861 --> 58:57.223
[DEREK]: As a proud maultherner.

58:57.883 --> 58:59.105
[DEREK]: do you like a good part?

58:59.185 --> 59:00.427
[DEREK]: Absolutely, absolutely.

59:01.028 --> 59:04.253
[DEREK]: Thank you so much for letting me clarify a couple of the great points for us.

59:04.293 --> 59:09.280
[DEREK]: Yeah, I think I think you're going to enjoy watching color again as you go through the season.

59:10.233 --> 59:14.136
[JOHN]: Yeah, absolutely, it's great choice to have a look at it.

59:14.156 --> 59:23.043
[JOHN]: I mean, even just that pop of colour when you first look at it, I mean, I think Robby Robertson and his outfits are just a revelation.

59:23.124 --> 59:28.688
[JOHN]: So, I think for this one, it was the blue of Silverman's coat and he's just

59:34.592 --> 59:37.454
[DEREK]: and yet it's this kind of royal bloat.

59:37.774 --> 59:38.974
[DEREK]: It's really interesting.

59:39.054 --> 59:39.715
[DEREK]: Very, really cool.

59:40.355 --> 59:43.156
[DEREK]: Thank you so much and thank you all for all your feedback.

59:43.276 --> 59:59.042
[DEREK]: Keep sending it into us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or pop out our Facebook group of Facebook.com slash groups slash TV podcast industries or you can share your thoughts over on our Discord details are here in this very episode.

01:00:00.823 --> 01:00:04.425
[DEREK]: Thanks for following along with us for aspiring to work loads of the podcast site there.

01:00:04.945 --> 01:00:21.732
[DEREK]: If you've been enjoying the podcast make sure you subscribe to us at tvpodcastindustries.com or of course we would love if you would share the podcast because sharing the podcast is sharing those love and you see yeah we'll be back next week with our chat all about Spider-Noir episode six.

01:00:22.292 --> 01:00:27.975
[JOHN]: Yes we would love to get your thoughts on that episode as well but until then

01:00:28.835 --> 01:00:34.241
[JOHN]: Uh, fellow defenders, keep watching, keep listening, and of course, keep defending.

01:00:35.422 --> 01:00:35.702
[JOHN]: Bye.

01:00:35.762 --> 01:00:36.102
[JOHN]: Bye.

01:00:37.964 --> 01:00:39.005
[JOHN]: Did you say pie?

01:00:40.066 --> 01:00:40.407
[JOHN]: Pie?

01:00:40.427 --> 01:00:40.507
[JOHN]: Pie?

01:00:41.147 --> 01:00:41.488
[JOHN]: Bye.

01:00:42.749 --> 01:00:43.089
[JOHN]: Bye.