Fantastic Four 2025

Fantastic Four First Steps Transcript

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[DEREK]: This is Movies on TV Podcast Industries, we're back talking about Fantastic Four First Steps.

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[SHALLA-BAL]: Are you the protectors of this world?

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[SUE STORM]: Yes, we are.

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[SHALLA-BAL]: Your planet is now marked for death.

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[SHALLA-BAL]: Your world will be consumed by the Devourer.

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[SHALLA-BAL]: There is nothing you can do to stop him, For he is a universal force, as a sensuous start.

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[SHALLA-BAL]: Hold your loved ones close, and speak the words you've been afraid to speak.

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[SHALLA-BAL]: Use this time to rejoice and celebrate, For your time is short.

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[SUE STORM]: I herald his beginning, I herald your end.

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[DEREK]: Welcome back, fellow Defenders, to Movies on TV Podcast Industries.

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[DEREK]: Oh, we're back in the cinema for the 37th movie in the MCU.

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[DEREK]: Fantastic Four, First Steps.

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[DEREK]: I'm one of your hosts, Derek.

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[JOHN]: Hello there, fellow Defenders.

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[JOHN]: I am one of your most fantastic hosts, John.

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[DEREK]: Are you one of the Earth's Defenders, John?

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[JOHN]: I'm a Defender, yes.

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[DEREK]: You are, you are?

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[DEREK]: Yeah, back in the cinema once again, and back in the MCU once again.

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[DEREK]: God, it feels very quick.

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[DEREK]: We just finished doing Ironheart a couple of weeks ago, and then went on holidays, and then we come back and we have the Fantastic Four of the cinema.

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[JOHN]: Yes, and we're also doing our Sandman coverage as well.

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[DEREK]: Absolutely, absolutely.

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[JOHN]: And then the Sandman coverage, I should say.

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[DEREK]: That's right, yes.

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[DEREK]: And then in less than a week's time, we're going to have Eyes of Wakanda, the next four episodes of an MCU animated show, all coming out on Disney+.

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[DEREK]: So it's been a marvelous summer.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, absolutely.

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[JOHN]: Tons of marvelous stuff at the moment.

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[JOHN]: And indeed, Derek says, not to put too much of a spoiler on my thoughts, but this movie, I was quite surprised.

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[JOHN]: As a Fantastic Four pessimist, especially given that our original foray into the world of the Fantastic Four was with Fox's awful fan force stick movie in 2015, which was not rated well, not only by most people, but including ourselves.

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[DEREK]: Well, that's the one I point to when we get comments about us being too lenient on the shows that we watch or too nice about them, or always defending everything or being kind about everything.

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[DEREK]: That's the episode I point to people to, to where we absolutely had such a bad time watching the Fantastic Four movie done by Josh Trank and Fox, that we didn't enjoy podcasting about it so much that it's one that you listen to and go, well, I'm glad they don't cover shows like that or movies like that, because nobody listened to us moaning about terrible shows and terrible movies.

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[DEREK]: It was our turning point pretty early on in the podcast that we said, if there's something that we really dislike that much, we're not going to waste our time podcasting on it.

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[DEREK]: So I'm so glad going into this movie, I can say the same as John, that I'm delighted to be talking about The Fantastic Four.

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[DEREK]: But not only is this our second Fantastic Four movie, John, this is the third time we've covered A Human Torch, because remember The Human Torch from the original Fantastic Four movies was in Dead Bill and Wolverine last year.

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[DEREK]: So we got to see Chris Evans in live-action last year, back as The Human Torch and Johnny Storm in that movie.

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[DEREK]: So yes, this is going to be our third time talking about Johnny Storm.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, it certainly is.

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[JOHN]: And of course, it may have actually just done the impossible for me and actually make me care about, as they would say, Marvel's First Family.

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[DEREK]: Exactly.

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[DEREK]: Yes.

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[JOHN]: I like the fact that they didn't cover in any great detail, very much a montage-y.

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[JOHN]: They didn't cover how they got their powers, even though they did touch upon it.

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[JOHN]: But it was very much touching upon it and then into the movie.

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[JOHN]: But yeah, no, interesting.

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[JOHN]: I thought it was interesting choices.

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[DEREK]: Yeah, absolutely.

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[DEREK]: And I really like this that you mentioned there about them not talking about the origin story of the Fantastic Four here.

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[DEREK]: I really like this.

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[DEREK]: I read today that the comparison that's being made to that, because I didn't make the comparison, but the comparison being made to that is this is exactly how Spider-Man was introduced into the world of the MCU.

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[DEREK]: We didn't see his origin story.

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[DEREK]: We've seen it seven times in movies and TV shows.

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[DEREK]: So they decided, you've seen enough of that, let's give you a story with them after they've had their experience.

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[DEREK]: So similar to this movie.

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[DEREK]: If you haven't seen the movie, we will be talking about it in spoiler-filled detail.

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[DEREK]: I think you could probably already hear myself and John are going to tell you, go see the movie.

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[DEREK]: Highly, highly recommend going to see it.

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[DEREK]: And then when you have seen it, come back to us and you can hear our thoughts on it.

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[JOHN]: Absolutely.

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[JOHN]: But I think we should get into our spoiler-filled discussion of.

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[JOHN]: D-D-D and it was like, okay, he's only passing him a carrot or something.

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[DEREK]: I did say, yeah, we did kind of talk about this as well.

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[DEREK]: Michael Gienkina's score is beautiful.

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[DEREK]: It's fantastic, but it is in every single scene for the entire movie.

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[DEREK]: And I've heard some cinephiles and some people that love scores that think that's a great choice for the movie.

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[DEREK]: It didn't work for me at all.

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[DEREK]: I wish it should just drop out sometimes because it felt like all the time we were waiting for big action scene, big moment to happen, because the music is telling you something really exciting is happening.

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[DEREK]: And a lot of the movie is them talking to each other, so it didn't need to be overscored by score the entire length of the film.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, no, exactly.

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[JOHN]: I mean, it's really powerful.

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[JOHN]: It's very choral, which adds to the power.

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[DEREK]: Certainly that theme, yeah.

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[JOHN]: But it felt like that was happening a lot, and maybe it wasn't, but the just general feeling was that there was this consistent like ooooh!

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[JOHN]: And I was like, okay.

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[DEREK]: Yeah, it might have been the mix in our IMAX the next time we go and see it.

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[DEREK]: Potentially, we might have a different experience, but certainly first time watching it through, it felt like it was just pervasive throughout the movie.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, I agree.

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[JOHN]: Well, literally, IMAX is supposed to be the best cinematic experience you have in terms of sound, not just, but-

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[DEREK]: We've seen it.

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[DEREK]: We've had them do a bad mix on us.

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[DEREK]: We've had them do bad picture at times.

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[DEREK]: Sometimes we've had the movie shut down on us in the IMAX.

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[JOHN]: We've had the roof almost fall on us as well with that storm.

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[DEREK]: That's right.

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[JOHN]: Yeah.

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[JOHN]: Ah yes, come to the Dublin IMAX at Cineworld.

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[JOHN]: It's never a dull moment.

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[DEREK]: If it's still there.

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[JOHN]: It's still there.

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[DEREK]: But it was very full for this, though, wasn't it?

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[JOHN]: It was, it was really full.

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[JOHN]: We've got a bit of cosplay as well.

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[JOHN]: People in skimpy tight, Fantastic Four stuff.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, I think trying to be Johnny Blaze.

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[DEREK]: Well, John constantly kept going, here comes Mr.

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[DEREK]: Fantastic as he walked past.

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[DEREK]: And I was going, look, he's clearly got the blonde wig on.

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[DEREK]: He would be very offended if you were telling him that he was the stretchy man instead of the good looking Johnny Storm.

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[DEREK]: But luckily, he didn't tear John, I don't think.

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[DEREK]: I'll see left crying halfway through.

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[DEREK]: Oh dear.

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[SUE STORM]: Well, yes.

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[DEREK]: But it is nice to see cosplay.

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[DEREK]: We also got the poster for free with our ticket, which is nice.

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[DEREK]: The edition always like getting the posters from the movies.

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[DEREK]: We've got a few of them there.

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[SUE STORM]: Yeah.

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[JOHN]: Great getting the free poster handout at the Cineworld in Dublin.

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[SUE STORM]: Yeah.

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[DEREK]: It would be great if they just cut back on the ticket price a little bit.

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[DEREK]: We're close to 50 quid, as I said, which is quite a lot for two tickets for a night out on a Thursday.

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[DEREK]: But with all that said, we do want to talk about the movie itself in full spoiler full detail.

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[DEREK]: If you have any thoughts about the movie once you've seen it, you can email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or we do have a spoiler post up on our Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/tvpodcastindustries, where you can talk to other defenders about their thoughts on the movie as well.

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[JOHN]: Yes, exactly.

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[JOHN]: But with that, let us get into our spoiler filled discussion of the Fantastic Four movie, First Steps.

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[JOHN]: Derek, who gave us what were when and how?

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[DEREK]: Yes, the producers on the movie are Kevin Feige, Louis Esposito, Grant Curtis, Tim Lewis, Robert Coulser, Mitchell Bell and Nick Pepin, the composer that we already mentioned, of course, is Michael Giacchino.

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[DEREK]: This movie was directed by Matt Shackman, who we know very well.

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[DEREK]: He's moved up from one division as his first big directing job for Marvel, and he's moved through many shows since then and been one of the big members of the team being tipped to take over from Kevin Feige if he decides to leave Marvel when his contract's up in 2029.

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[DEREK]: So that's very interesting.

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[DEREK]: Matt Shackman has been one of the guiding forces behind Marvel since he came on board with one division.

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[DEREK]: An understandable why.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, definitely.

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[DEREK]: Yeah.

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[DEREK]: The story for this movie was written by Eric Pearson, Cat Wood, Jeff Kaplan and Ian Springer.

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[DEREK]: Cat Wood is, interestingly, a former BBC journalist who's been working on the script since 2021.

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[DEREK]: And Jeff Kaplan and Ian Springer were brought on board and announced in September 2022 as a massive change from the type of shows and movies that they've written in the past.

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[DEREK]: They're much smaller budget, much smaller movies in the past, but they are writing partners who write together.

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[DEREK]: So they were brought on board back in 2022.

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[DEREK]: And the screenplay for the movie is written by Eric Pearson, Josh Friedman, Jeff Kaplan, Ian Springer.

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[DEREK]: And Eric, we've mentioned many, many times over the years.

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[DEREK]: One of the most prolific writers of Marvel movies.

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[DEREK]: In fact, he also wrote Thunderbolts earlier on this summer as well.

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[DEREK]: Or Thunderbolts asterisks as it was at the time.

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[DEREK]: And Josh Friedman is probably the most well-known member of the team here, as he's the creator of the Apple TV series, Foundation.

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[DEREK]: And he was also a producer on the Terminator spinoff series, The Sarah Connor Chronicles, which we both absolutely loved.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, that was superb.

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[JOHN]: I haven't seen Foundation.

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[JOHN]: Is that the sci-fi one or is it one?

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[DEREK]: It's one of the two massive sci-fi ones on Apple.

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[DEREK]: Yeah, lots and lots of buzz about that show.

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[JOHN]: Oh, absolutely.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, I just haven't seen any episodes, so...

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[DEREK]: We pretty much haven't seen anything on Apple TV.

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[JOHN]: No, that is true, actually.

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[DEREK]: Except we have started studio finally after being told that it's great and it is very, very good.

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[JOHN]: Yeah, it's really funny.

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[DEREK]: But John, do you want to tell us what this epic team of writers gave us for the Fantastic Four First Steps?

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[SUE STORM]: Sure.

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[JOHN]: In an alternate New York on Earth 828, four years have passed since Reed Richards, Sue Storm, Ben Grimm and Johnny Storm gained superhuman abilities from cosmic ray exposure on a spaceflight and became the superhero team known as the Fantastic Four.

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[JOHN]: During a family dinner, Reed and Sue reveal to Ben and Johnny that they are expecting a child.

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[JOHN]: To prepare the world for the arrival of their son, Reed Richards childproofs New York City by removing all the criminal elements that he has been keeping his eyes on.

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[JOHN]: But a few months later, a cosmic being known as this Silver Surfer suddenly appears to announce to the people of Earth that their planet has been marked for destruction by the planet-devouring cosmic being known as Galactus.

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[JOHN]: After studying numerous anomalies involving the disappearance of planets, the team decides to try and negotiate Earth's fate with Galactus.

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[JOHN]: Upon their arrival in a distant star system, the nearest planet is immediately destroyed by Galactus' ship, and the team is captured.

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[JOHN]: Galactus offers to spare Earth in exchange for Reed and Sue's unborn son, as he senses an immense power within him, but they refuse and escape from Galactus and the Silver Surfer.

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[JOHN]: On the flight back to Earth, Sue gives birth to her son, Franklin Richards.

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[JOHN]: Following a disastrous press conference to explain their failure, the world turns against the team, fearing Galactus' imminent arrival.

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[JOHN]: With Franklin in her arms, Sue declares to the public that they will do whatever is necessary to defeat Galactus, regaining the public's trust.

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[JOHN]: Reed devises a network of standing teleportation bridges that will transport Earth away from Galactus' reach by hiding it in a distant galaxy many light years away.

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[JOHN]: Just as they begin activating the bridges, they are destroyed by the Silver Surfer.

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[JOHN]: Johnny stops her from reaching the last bridge in Times Square and having learned her language, identifies her as Shalla-Bal, who willingly became Galactus' herald to spur her own world from the same fate.

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[JOHN]: Forced to hear the dying words of the planets she has led Galactus to, Shalla-Bal flees in anguish as the Fantastic Four execute their revised plan to stop the planet-eating entity.

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[JOHN]: Using Franklin as bait, the team plans to lure Galactus to the Times Square bridge and teleport him away from Earth.

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[JOHN]: Sue negotiates with Harvey Elder, aka Mole Man, to evacuate the citizens of New York to his underground city of Subterranea, while the team continue their mission.

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[JOHN]: The plan fails though, and Galactus takes the baby from the team's headquarters.

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[JOHN]: Sue forces Galactus into the portal using her shield-generating powers, while Reed rescues their baby Franklin.

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[JOHN]: When Sue begins to falter from overexertion, Johnny prepares to sacrifice himself to push Galactus back into the portal.

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[JOHN]: Having a change of heart, Shalla-Bal, Silver Surfer stops the human torch and sacrifices herself instead, as Galactus gets consumed by the portal and thrown into the void.

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[JOHN]: Reed, Ben and Johnny recover Sue, who has died after exhausting her powers.

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[JOHN]: However, when Reed places Franklin on her chest, his new awakened powers resuscitate her.

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[JOHN]: In the aftermath, the team is celebrated for their victory.

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[JOHN]: Four years later, Sue reads to Franklin at the team's headquarters, the Baxter Building.

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[JOHN]: After momentarily leaving, she walks in on a masked man in a green cloak, interacting with her son in their living room.

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[DEREK]: Who is that masked man in the green cloak?

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[JOHN]: Well, indeed.

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[JOHN]: The only thing I would say about that is, I really hope they de-shine the mask of this.

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[JOHN]: Very shiny.

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[DEREK]: I think it fits in quite well in this particular world, though.

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[JOHN]: I think you're probably right.

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[JOHN]: I think it is just an 828, Earth 828 world thing.

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[JOHN]: But it kind of looked like chrome taps.

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[JOHN]: I was expecting it to be kind of on the wall of a bathroom in one of those kind of chic type sort of themed hotels.

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[JOHN]: You kind of turn the taps and like hot water out one eye or out of one nostril.

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[DEREK]: Out of the nose, maybe.

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[DEREK]: Yeah, exactly.

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[DEREK]: Very good.

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[DEREK]: But then again, if the character is being played by Robert Downey Jr, it's likely being used as a mirror to see his beautiful, beautiful face.

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[JOHN]: Well, that is true.

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[DEREK]: So maybe it's that.

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[DEREK]: I'm so pretty.

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[DEREK]: Maybe it's that.

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[DEREK]: Let's go on to our major moments and major points about the movie Fantastic Four.

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[DEREK]: The First Steps.

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[DEREK]: This time we normally call them our points, of course, or our case notes or our bullet points.

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[DEREK]: This time, since this is much more of a sci-fi movie, we're going to go for our scientific notations, our top five.

00:15:56.167 --> 00:16:01.567
[DEREK]: So our first scientific notation, scientific notation one, is she's having a baby.

00:16:01.567 --> 00:16:03.627
[DEREK]: Because this is our introduction to the Fantastic Four here.

00:16:03.627 --> 00:16:05.807
[DEREK]: You mentioned it already, John, earlier on.

00:16:05.807 --> 00:16:08.747
[DEREK]: We don't have an intro to how the Fantastic Four got their powers.

00:16:08.827 --> 00:16:13.667
[DEREK]: We have much more of an introduction to this family unit that have spent many, many years around each other.

00:16:13.667 --> 00:16:20.787
[DEREK]: And specifically, these last four years they spent with their superpowers, defending Earth and defending New York.

00:16:20.787 --> 00:16:21.327
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:16:21.327 --> 00:16:23.927
[JOHN]: And I like how this was done through the TV show.

00:16:23.927 --> 00:16:36.427
[JOHN]: You know, it's almost that introduction as they come on for their interview, done by Ted Gilbert, played by, of course, the fantastic Mark Gatiss from League of Gentlemen in the UK.

00:16:37.087 --> 00:16:40.587
[JOHN]: So great to see him involved here.

00:16:40.587 --> 00:16:50.987
[JOHN]: But I did, I like just that way of introducing them and how they got their powers through the celebrity interview kind of format and from the studio audience.

00:16:51.167 --> 00:16:52.867
[JOHN]: I thought that was a nice way of doing it.

00:16:52.867 --> 00:16:53.247
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

00:16:53.247 --> 00:16:55.567
[DEREK]: And this is based on the Ed Sullivan show in the US.

00:16:55.567 --> 00:16:57.307
[DEREK]: It would have been a very popular show.

00:16:57.307 --> 00:17:03.487
[DEREK]: So that style that Ted Gilbert's, you know, presenting the history of the family before they come on board to do their interview, basically.

00:17:03.487 --> 00:17:06.167
[DEREK]: So a lovely little idea that's in there.

00:17:06.307 --> 00:17:09.687
[DEREK]: And especially, I love the choice that they make, because we mentioned it before.

00:17:09.687 --> 00:17:12.747
[DEREK]: You know, we are people that know Fantastic Four for years.

00:17:12.747 --> 00:17:17.607
[DEREK]: So not only the cartoons that they've been involved in, also all the movies that have been made.

00:17:17.607 --> 00:17:18.187
[DEREK]: We've seen them all.

00:17:18.187 --> 00:17:20.207
[DEREK]: We've seen the origin story so many times.

00:17:20.207 --> 00:17:29.087
[DEREK]: So just doing the quick recap of that, and then getting on to a real story about these characters, a bit of time into their lives together as the Fantastic Four.

00:17:29.087 --> 00:17:32.487
[DEREK]: So I also love, of course, they made this choice.

00:17:32.487 --> 00:17:34.907
[DEREK]: It's going to be four years after the accident happened.

00:17:34.987 --> 00:17:37.447
[DEREK]: So there's the Fantastic Four four years later.

00:17:37.447 --> 00:17:42.567
[DEREK]: And it's Sue and Reed in their bedroom just on a normal evening.

00:17:42.567 --> 00:17:52.587
[DEREK]: But Sue is finding out that she's pregnant, while Reed is trying to work out where he can find a chemical that he's misplaced.

00:17:52.587 --> 00:18:03.087
[JOHN]: Yes, he's looking for iodine, I think, in order to, I think, pull, you know, draw something down or disinfect, generally used for disinfection.

00:18:03.847 --> 00:18:23.867
[JOHN]: But I think, yeah, I mean, again, also just in this moment of finding out that Sue Storm is pregnant and she's having a baby, I like the whole look of it, of that kind of Jetsons era sci-fi, that era of, it's the 60s, 50s, 60s equivalent of steampunk.

00:18:23.867 --> 00:18:35.327
[JOHN]: You know, it's that 60s aesthetic of architecture style, but slightly more advanced really in how it plays out and what can and can't be done.

00:18:35.327 --> 00:18:37.887
[JOHN]: I kind of really like that.

00:18:37.887 --> 00:18:42.667
[JOHN]: I don't know whether there's a similar phrase like steampunk that would be used.

00:18:42.667 --> 00:18:45.187
[DEREK]: Retrofuturism, I think, is the term.

00:18:45.187 --> 00:18:45.567
[JOHN]: That's it.

00:18:45.567 --> 00:18:48.787
[JOHN]: I think that retrofuturism is a great choice.

00:18:48.787 --> 00:18:50.147
[JOHN]: I really, really like it.

00:18:50.147 --> 00:18:57.727
[DEREK]: Because it's similar to what we saw in, and we didn't cover this in the podcast, but the show Fall Out that was on Prime Video, the first season was on Prime Video.

00:18:57.727 --> 00:19:08.767
[DEREK]: It's based on the video game that has that style of retrofuturism, this idea that technology stopped being created at a certain point in time and kept the aesthetic for many years afterwards.

00:19:08.767 --> 00:19:13.887
[DEREK]: I got the feeling from this, and again, this is lots of how well the movie is setting up these characters.

00:19:13.887 --> 00:19:20.887
[DEREK]: I got the feeling that Reed Richards is the person behind all of these developments, and this is how he's come to the forefront.

00:19:20.887 --> 00:19:26.327
[DEREK]: He talks about the fact that he's the one that chose these people to go on the mission with them many years ago.

00:19:26.327 --> 00:19:31.187
[DEREK]: That's his best friend, his wife, and his brother-in-law.

00:19:31.187 --> 00:19:33.287
[DEREK]: Basically, they're the people that are on the mission that go into space.

00:19:33.287 --> 00:19:42.427
[DEREK]: So it seems like he's the world's preeminent scientist, and he's the one in charge of everything, and he's created all of these advancements in technology for the world.

00:19:42.427 --> 00:19:50.927
[DEREK]: It's just quite interesting in the shadow, I suppose, of having watched Ironheart about a very intelligent character who can't get any of her inventions off the ground.

00:19:50.967 --> 00:19:56.987
[DEREK]: And the next movie we see in the MCU is about a character who has invented everything for an entire world of people.

00:19:56.987 --> 00:19:58.267
[JOHN]: Yes, exactly.

00:19:58.267 --> 00:20:02.607
[DEREK]: Quite a different take on these intelligent scientists in the universe.

00:20:02.607 --> 00:20:03.047
[JOHN]: Yeah.

00:20:03.047 --> 00:20:09.007
[JOHN]: Despite that, you get the idea that he's socially inept here a bit.

00:20:09.047 --> 00:20:11.667
[JOHN]: You know, can't find the iodine.

00:20:11.667 --> 00:20:26.107
[JOHN]: But I think throughout this, you get the notion that that Reed Richards is a little bit socially awkward and apt, however you want to describe it, you know, whatever level you think that is.

00:20:26.107 --> 00:20:32.647
[JOHN]: And and potentially is somewhere, I guess, on the spectrum.

00:20:33.667 --> 00:20:38.387
[JOHN]: His intelligence is down to that in some respects.

00:20:38.607 --> 00:20:42.687
[DEREK]: Yeah, there's certainly a difference between his intelligence and his emotional intelligence.

00:20:42.687 --> 00:20:44.787
[DEREK]: It does seem like he's somewhere in the autism spectrum.

00:20:44.787 --> 00:20:51.307
[DEREK]: I think that's what works so well between the relationship we see between Sue and Reed.

00:20:51.307 --> 00:20:59.707
[DEREK]: She's the one that kind of takes care of him in all the other elements that he has to deal with in his life, while he takes care of all of the scientific aspects as well.

00:20:59.707 --> 00:21:03.207
[DEREK]: There's a real there is a real team here between the two of them.

00:21:03.207 --> 00:21:16.667
[DEREK]: Overall, the four major characters that we've got here between Sue Storm, played by Vanessa Kirby, Reed Richards played by Pedro Pascal, Ben Grimm played by Emma Moss-Bachrach and Johnny Storm played by Joseph Sequin.

00:21:16.667 --> 00:21:21.707
[DEREK]: This movie really focuses on their relationship more than almost anything else in the movie.

00:21:22.267 --> 00:21:23.447
[DEREK]: There is a great story there.

00:21:23.447 --> 00:21:30.567
[DEREK]: There's exciting adventure and exciting action, but this movie seems to be all about those four characters and their interaction together.

00:21:30.567 --> 00:21:41.187
[DEREK]: I have to say, given that we know exactly when this movie filming took place, because they were brought out to San Diego Comic Con last year, and they were about to go and film their first day together.

00:21:41.187 --> 00:21:42.867
[DEREK]: They have such a great chemistry.

00:21:42.867 --> 00:21:47.447
[DEREK]: All four of them feel like real lived-in characters who know how to deal with each other.

00:21:47.447 --> 00:21:53.867
[DEREK]: There is the bratty little brother-in-law moments between Johnny Storm and Reed Richards.

00:21:53.867 --> 00:21:58.727
[DEREK]: They're the best friend moments between Ben Grimm and Reed Richards.

00:21:58.727 --> 00:22:07.387
[DEREK]: But there's also that really caring side of Ben Grimm that comes across, especially after Franklin's been born, and how much he wants to take care of the new baby in the house.

00:22:07.387 --> 00:22:10.927
[DEREK]: And there's a real loving relationship between all four of them, I think.

00:22:10.927 --> 00:22:12.467
[JOHN]: Yeah, absolutely.

00:22:12.467 --> 00:22:15.007
[JOHN]: It feels like a unit.

00:22:15.007 --> 00:22:26.807
[JOHN]: And yes, they've got their issues with one another to some degree, but it's generally a glue that holds them together, which is all really quite positive.

00:22:26.807 --> 00:22:33.067
[JOHN]: You know, I think sometimes the sort of fracture between Johnny Storm and Reed Richards has been overplayed a bit.

00:22:33.527 --> 00:22:39.047
[JOHN]: But I like here that it's almost just like niggly brotherly digs, in a sense.

00:22:39.047 --> 00:22:39.947
[JOHN]: Yeah.

00:22:39.947 --> 00:22:49.427
[JOHN]: I like the fact here that I think the other person to mention here, which was a favourite for me, is Herbie, the robot.

00:22:50.447 --> 00:23:02.087
[JOHN]: And I did like the fact that every time Johnny Storm sort of touched his head, he kind of like giggles, almost like a cat being tickled around the ears and the chin.

00:23:03.027 --> 00:23:08.667
[JOHN]: He sort of went into purring mode for the robot.

00:23:08.667 --> 00:23:11.787
[JOHN]: But I love the aesthetic of Herbie, the kind of Jetsons thing.

00:23:11.787 --> 00:23:27.727
[JOHN]: I love the thing where they take the cassette out of his head, that is basically his eyes when they go into space, as they move from domestic cassette tape to space flight cassette tape for his programming.

00:23:28.087 --> 00:23:33.267
[JOHN]: So I kind of like those touches for this character, Herbie.

00:23:33.447 --> 00:23:35.067
[JOHN]: And I think he was just there in the background.

00:23:35.067 --> 00:23:43.387
[JOHN]: I don't think there weren't too many points where it stood out, did Herbie, but it was always a presence and I kind of liked that.

00:23:43.387 --> 00:23:44.067
[DEREK]: Yeah, I think you're right.

00:23:44.067 --> 00:23:47.467
[DEREK]: He could have been the comic relief in every scene that he's in or something like that.

00:23:47.467 --> 00:23:58.867
[DEREK]: But I did feel a couple of times where they were going, we'll just get Herbie to do it, you know, it was like this long shopping list of tasks that Herbie has to do every day to keep the place running.

00:23:58.867 --> 00:24:00.527
[DEREK]: But I did like, yeah, I did like Herbie.

00:24:00.727 --> 00:24:05.487
[DEREK]: I felt like I was straining because I was trying to hear what he's saying because everybody else seems to understand them.

00:24:05.487 --> 00:24:09.467
[DEREK]: The whole group of the Fantastic Four seem to understand what he's saying back to them.

00:24:09.467 --> 00:24:16.047
[DEREK]: And I felt that every time he was on screen for the first hour or so I was going, is it just me that can't understand him?

00:24:16.047 --> 00:24:17.647
[DEREK]: Has he speaking a different language or something?

00:24:17.727 --> 00:24:20.427
[DEREK]: But they have obviously got some way to to understand.

00:24:20.427 --> 00:24:21.887
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:24:21.887 --> 00:24:29.287
[JOHN]: And also we should mention, as you just ran through the names, that the Ebon Moss-Bachrach, this is not his first time in the Marvel world.

00:24:29.287 --> 00:24:30.447
[JOHN]: That's right.

00:24:30.447 --> 00:24:32.207
[JOHN]: Micro in The Punisher.

00:24:32.207 --> 00:24:33.927
[DEREK]: He was, which we covered right here.

00:24:34.167 --> 00:24:35.827
[JOHN]: We certainly did.

00:24:35.827 --> 00:24:40.167
[JOHN]: I know, of course, people would have known him from The Bear, I guess, more recently.

00:24:40.167 --> 00:24:44.967
[JOHN]: But it's interesting that he does have Marvel pedigree here.

00:24:44.967 --> 00:24:46.747
[JOHN]: So good to point out there.

00:24:47.607 --> 00:24:50.867
[JOHN]: Ben, of course, does guess that Sue is pregnant.

00:24:50.867 --> 00:24:52.487
[JOHN]: He can see it in their eyes.

00:24:52.487 --> 00:24:55.067
[JOHN]: He can see it in Reed's sort of demeanour.

00:24:55.067 --> 00:25:02.067
[JOHN]: Again, I think it's something where Reed Richards doesn't really quite know how to say it.

00:25:02.067 --> 00:25:04.407
[JOHN]: Ben is kind of guessing where it's going.

00:25:05.227 --> 00:25:09.827
[JOHN]: Sue's brother, Johnny, then is just delighted at this.

00:25:09.827 --> 00:25:11.107
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

00:25:11.207 --> 00:25:14.587
[DEREK]: I love that little dig that he makes there where he goes, me and Ben are going to be great uncles.

00:25:14.587 --> 00:25:16.087
[DEREK]: You're going to be a terrible father.

00:25:17.387 --> 00:25:20.827
[DEREK]: I do think that's kind of one of the great things they get across at Reed's character.

00:25:20.827 --> 00:25:29.247
[DEREK]: He's brilliant at the technical aspects of, we're about to have a child in the home, so we need to do certain things that will enable us to take care of this child.

00:25:29.247 --> 00:25:34.007
[DEREK]: But he's absolutely terrible at the emotional side of things, that he's going to have a child and he has to deal with that.

00:25:34.007 --> 00:25:34.567
[JOHN]: I agree.

00:25:34.567 --> 00:25:35.467
[DEREK]: It's a cool idea.

00:25:35.467 --> 00:25:36.447
[JOHN]: Yeah, it is.

00:25:36.447 --> 00:25:40.207
[JOHN]: But it plays out really quite darkly a bit later on.

00:25:40.787 --> 00:25:53.007
[JOHN]: And you have a moment of tension and an argument between Sue and Reed, where she's like, yes, but I know how you think, you know?

00:25:53.387 --> 00:26:03.447
[JOHN]: I know you're not the most articulate, sensitive, emotional, but I know how you think and I know that you are going to suggest the unsuggestible in a sense.

00:26:03.447 --> 00:26:04.967
[DEREK]: Well, I love this moment.

00:26:05.207 --> 00:26:08.967
[DEREK]: I do want to talk about it here because we're talking about the characters for the first time here.

00:26:08.967 --> 00:26:16.567
[DEREK]: Let's talk about it because I think this is really important to Reed Richards' character and has become more and more important in the comic books over the years.

00:26:16.567 --> 00:26:25.767
[DEREK]: Reed Richards being a founding member of the group, the Illuminati in the comic books who make the decisions that no other superhero or no other supervillain will make.

00:26:25.767 --> 00:26:30.587
[DEREK]: They think about the choices that nobody else would think about, and that's how Reed explains it in here.

00:26:30.587 --> 00:26:36.747
[DEREK]: It will become super important, I think, as the Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret Wars movies come out.

00:26:36.847 --> 00:26:48.087
[DEREK]: And as Reed Richards gets involved in the rest of the MCU, the conversation and the argument really between himself and Sue, where Sue's going, how could you even think about giving up our child and sacrificing him for the planet?

00:26:48.087 --> 00:26:50.727
[DEREK]: And Reed goes, I think about it because I have to.

00:26:50.727 --> 00:26:56.007
[DEREK]: When I think about it and when I've gone through it, then I can make my decision as to what's the right thing or the wrong thing to do.

00:26:56.007 --> 00:27:00.187
[DEREK]: But I can't make a decision out of hand thinking about it because that's what I do.

00:27:00.227 --> 00:27:03.847
[DEREK]: I love that about Reed, just putting that little moment in his head.

00:27:03.847 --> 00:27:05.927
[DEREK]: He didn't make the decision to give up Franklin.

00:27:06.767 --> 00:27:14.347
[DEREK]: That wasn't a decision, but it crossed his mind and he assessed it as a real concept, which other people wouldn't do.

00:27:14.827 --> 00:27:19.787
[DEREK]: I think that's something to keep in mind about Reed and his character for future decisions he may make.

00:27:19.787 --> 00:27:20.667
[JOHN]: It was very good.

00:27:20.667 --> 00:27:21.647
[DEREK]: What a cool idea.

00:27:21.647 --> 00:27:22.967
[DEREK]: Anything else about the characters, John?

00:27:23.067 --> 00:27:26.227
[DEREK]: The four major Fantastic Four characters?

00:27:26.227 --> 00:27:30.127
[JOHN]: Well, the two things is, I think Johnny really does burn brightly here.

00:27:30.127 --> 00:27:38.087
[JOHN]: I do like the fact it's almost a retro flame as well in keeping with that retro futuristic.

00:27:38.087 --> 00:27:44.207
[JOHN]: It almost looks like bad CGI until you realize that's the aesthetic.

00:27:44.207 --> 00:27:45.067
[DEREK]: I love the style though.

00:27:45.067 --> 00:27:46.627
[DEREK]: I love the style, yeah.

00:27:46.627 --> 00:27:55.807
[JOHN]: Then we have Ben Grimm, who until he gets and or grows his beard, it looks like his head is a little small for his body.

00:27:55.807 --> 00:27:56.607
[DEREK]: It does, doesn't it?

00:27:56.607 --> 00:28:00.227
[JOHN]: It looks really a weird proportion.

00:28:00.227 --> 00:28:00.627
[DEREK]: Genuinely.

00:28:00.667 --> 00:28:02.307
[JOHN]: It was kind of distracting for me.

00:28:02.307 --> 00:28:06.207
[JOHN]: But as soon as the beard's grown, it's kind of all right.

00:28:06.247 --> 00:28:15.407
[JOHN]: Kind of looked like the Tin Man from Return to Oz, kind of where the head's just a little too small for the body.

00:28:15.407 --> 00:28:16.767
[DEREK]: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

00:28:16.767 --> 00:28:25.607
[DEREK]: It was like as if, you know, did they design Ben's head with the beard on and then they take it off and it looks weird until he gets the beard back.

00:28:25.607 --> 00:28:31.147
[DEREK]: And this is all because of the power outages that he can't shave his stony face at some point.

00:28:31.147 --> 00:28:33.647
[DEREK]: But I think the look of the character is really cool.

00:28:33.647 --> 00:28:35.547
[DEREK]: I think the look of the thing is really cool.

00:28:35.547 --> 00:28:36.527
[JOHN]: Yeah, definitely.

00:28:36.527 --> 00:28:36.787
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:28:36.787 --> 00:28:37.387
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:28:37.387 --> 00:28:46.447
[DEREK]: And his kind of story that he gets throughout it is, he gets sort of a romantic story with Natasha Lyonne's character in the movie.

00:28:46.447 --> 00:28:48.547
[DEREK]: She has quite a small presence in the film, actually.

00:28:48.547 --> 00:28:55.327
[DEREK]: I was expecting a lot more when I heard that Natasha Lyonne, one of our favorite actresses, has a character in the MCU.

00:28:55.407 --> 00:28:57.807
[DEREK]: I was expecting a lot more from her in here.

00:28:57.807 --> 00:29:04.987
[DEREK]: And if we were going to get a Fantastic Four 2 movie in the future, I'd expect to see a big, a lot more of her in there with Ben.

00:29:04.987 --> 00:29:10.487
[JOHN]: Yeah, I just felt that just, it didn't really work for me.

00:29:10.487 --> 00:29:13.107
[JOHN]: And I think it's just more that it was too fleeting.

00:29:13.107 --> 00:29:17.827
[JOHN]: I think everyone else seemed to, it was being covered within the Baxter building.

00:29:18.267 --> 00:29:20.567
[JOHN]: That and all of a sudden we were taken out.

00:29:21.227 --> 00:29:25.547
[JOHN]: It just didn't go anywhere meaningful in the film.

00:29:25.547 --> 00:29:33.707
[JOHN]: And I'm like, other than really showing that the neighborhood that Ben Grimm is from, that's always been part of Ben's character.

00:29:34.507 --> 00:29:39.587
[JOHN]: You know, it felt a little bit superfluous to me.

00:29:39.927 --> 00:29:42.567
[JOHN]: And I didn't really understand why it was in the movie.

00:29:42.567 --> 00:29:47.087
[DEREK]: Like, I love the scene where we have Ben messing with the kids and showing them him lifting up the car.

00:29:47.087 --> 00:29:49.187
[DEREK]: And it turns out that this actually owns their teacher.

00:29:49.187 --> 00:29:50.007
[DEREK]: I love that scene.

00:29:50.667 --> 00:29:54.747
[DEREK]: Which is just such a recognizable actress that you just expect so much more.

00:29:54.747 --> 00:29:58.687
[JOHN]: And that scene provides so much promise as to what's going to happen here.

00:29:58.687 --> 00:30:01.967
[JOHN]: And then it doesn't really happen.

00:30:01.967 --> 00:30:02.467
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:30:02.467 --> 00:30:02.687
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:30:02.687 --> 00:30:05.487
[JOHN]: Whatever we're supposed to or whatever we'll do.

00:30:05.487 --> 00:30:14.887
[JOHN]: And if it's just to introduce the character, then that introduction scene is enough.

00:30:15.767 --> 00:30:21.407
[JOHN]: But then again, you'd be going, well, why have they got Natasha Lyonne in for just that scene?

00:30:21.407 --> 00:30:22.887
[JOHN]: So it seemed a little odd.

00:30:22.887 --> 00:30:28.627
[JOHN]: It seemed like something that wasn't fully sort of evolved in the movie.

00:30:28.627 --> 00:30:29.687
[DEREK]: No, I think it's the other way around.

00:30:29.687 --> 00:30:32.807
[DEREK]: I think it was fully evolved in the movie and they cut it out.

00:30:32.807 --> 00:30:41.767
[DEREK]: So we're left now with three scenes of Ben Grimm meeting her, meeting her a second time and then going back to make sure she's OK with the big attacks happening.

00:30:41.767 --> 00:30:43.427
[DEREK]: And that's kind of it.

00:30:43.427 --> 00:30:45.087
[JOHN]: Which could have just been left out.

00:30:45.087 --> 00:30:45.467
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:30:45.467 --> 00:30:45.967
[JOHN]: As well.

00:30:45.967 --> 00:30:46.127
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:30:46.227 --> 00:30:49.847
[DEREK]: But but again, you've got the Tatlione here and they've left her in.

00:30:49.847 --> 00:30:53.347
[DEREK]: Because interestingly, there's another major character that was dropped from the movie.

00:30:53.347 --> 00:30:56.487
[DEREK]: John Malkovich was supposed to be in the movie playing the character of Red Ghost.

00:30:56.487 --> 00:30:57.087
[DEREK]: He was cast.

00:30:57.087 --> 00:31:00.687
[DEREK]: He was announced at San Diego Comic Con and cut out before the movie was released.

00:31:00.687 --> 00:31:03.667
[DEREK]: We've never we don't see Red Ghost in the movie at all.

00:31:03.667 --> 00:31:06.647
[DEREK]: Other than in the animated bit right at the end of the film.

00:31:06.647 --> 00:31:07.467
[DEREK]: Red Ghost is in there.

00:31:07.467 --> 00:31:10.487
[DEREK]: He's mentioned as a villain in the movie.

00:31:10.487 --> 00:31:12.027
[DEREK]: But we don't see him.

00:31:12.027 --> 00:31:15.087
[DEREK]: And John Malkovich was cast in that role, his first role in the MCU.

00:31:15.267 --> 00:31:16.067
[JOHN]: So that's what I mean.

00:31:16.467 --> 00:31:18.487
[DEREK]: They were willing to cut whatever they wanted to cut.

00:31:18.487 --> 00:31:23.407
[DEREK]: So hopefully that means that we will see Natasha Lyonne back in some future installment.

00:31:23.407 --> 00:31:27.527
[DEREK]: I think we're going to be coming back to this place the next time we see the Fantastic Four.

00:31:27.527 --> 00:31:32.907
[DEREK]: They're going to be in where they are right now in this universe, in universe 828.

00:31:32.907 --> 00:31:39.907
[DEREK]: But it's just something to mention, I suppose, that given that she's such a cool actress, we've loved her work on Poker Face specifically.

00:31:40.887 --> 00:31:45.427
[DEREK]: But it's weird just to have her in there for just a couple of scenes.

00:31:45.427 --> 00:31:46.767
[DEREK]: Yeah, definitely.

00:31:46.767 --> 00:31:53.247
[DEREK]: But let's get on to our scientific notation number two, which is Killer Eaters from Outer Space.

00:31:53.247 --> 00:32:02.847
[JOHN]: Yes, we get the return of the Silver Surfer here, and in the form of Shalla-Bal.

00:32:02.847 --> 00:32:04.867
[JOHN]: And I really enjoyed this.

00:32:04.867 --> 00:32:24.447
[JOHN]: I actually, I think as soon as you get the backstory, and, you know, I like how it connects in with Johnny using his, you know, his own brain and intelligence to sort of work out these noises echoing through that Reed Richards is picking up.

00:32:24.447 --> 00:32:47.027
[JOHN]: And I like how that plays out, but I like how we find out about, you know, the reason for Shalla-Bal as the Silver Surfer, that she was her world sacrifice, so that Galactus doesn't consume her world, and since has effectively been then his herald ever since.

00:32:47.027 --> 00:33:01.067
[JOHN]: And I like how that plays out, and how Johnny, you know, uses these recordings of this language coming from Deep Space, Shalla-Bal's original language.

00:33:01.067 --> 00:33:09.387
[JOHN]: I like how it surprises her when she finds out that he understands her, and then can speak her language.

00:33:09.527 --> 00:33:17.647
[JOHN]: It really helps, I think, to sort of humanise this Silver Surfer.

00:33:17.647 --> 00:33:29.207
[JOHN]: And I really enjoyed the portrayal of her, in particular through this conflict, once she's been reminded of her sacrifice by Julia Garner.

00:33:29.267 --> 00:33:30.567
[DEREK]: Absolutely, absolutely.

00:33:30.567 --> 00:33:32.487
[DEREK]: God, I used to love watching her in her arc.

00:33:32.487 --> 00:33:33.827
[DEREK]: She was so, so good.

00:33:33.827 --> 00:33:34.487
[DEREK]: Such a great character.

00:33:34.487 --> 00:33:36.367
[JOHN]: I could watch that again, actually.

00:33:36.367 --> 00:33:38.287
[DEREK]: That was a brilliant series, and she's brilliant on it.

00:33:38.287 --> 00:33:41.527
[DEREK]: So great to see her here as a Silver Surfer.

00:33:41.527 --> 00:33:49.487
[DEREK]: You're right, and one of the other things I really like about this side of the story, Johnny seems to be himself fascinated by the idea of these voices coming from space.

00:33:49.487 --> 00:33:56.967
[DEREK]: So Reed calls him in as soon as he gets another message from space, as he records it down to the vinyl, the gold vinyl discs that he's got.

00:33:57.387 --> 00:33:59.207
[DEREK]: So that sets it up at the beginning.

00:33:59.207 --> 00:34:03.207
[DEREK]: And then there's almost a moment where Johnny goes, well, I'm not going to bother Reed with this.

00:34:03.207 --> 00:34:07.327
[DEREK]: I'll take this on as my challenge because Reed's got so much other things to do.

00:34:07.327 --> 00:34:15.047
[DEREK]: I'll take this on as something that I can do and I'll help in it too, to find out about this language, translate it and see if I can do something to help.

00:34:15.047 --> 00:34:18.987
[DEREK]: That isn't going to put extra pressure on Reed almost, you know, which I kind of like.

00:34:18.987 --> 00:34:22.107
[DEREK]: You know, again, another member of the team using their own abilities.

00:34:22.107 --> 00:34:41.067
[JOHN]: Yeah, and I like that he gets more of an impetus when he hears the Silver Surfer speak the same language when they're off to find Galactus after the Silver Surfer has come to herald his future arrival for the destruction of the Earth.

00:34:41.067 --> 00:34:41.667
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:34:41.667 --> 00:34:50.407
[JOHN]: So I kind of like that, you know, he realises the connection and starts to sort of then build the translation and so on, you know?

00:34:50.407 --> 00:34:51.707
[DEREK]: Exactly, exactly.

00:34:52.027 --> 00:34:52.487
[DEREK]: It's really cool.

00:34:52.487 --> 00:34:58.827
[DEREK]: And again, I love this concept, you know, the Silver Surfer is coming to Earth, telling them all, you know, say goodbye to your loved ones.

00:34:58.827 --> 00:34:59.727
[DEREK]: This is it.

00:34:59.727 --> 00:35:02.727
[DEREK]: Your planet's been designated a death zone.

00:35:02.727 --> 00:35:07.927
[DEREK]: Just take some time and party until my boss gets here and eats the planet, basically.

00:35:07.927 --> 00:35:16.747
[DEREK]: But they don't do that because effectively, and again, it's not, it doesn't go into it in detail here, but it feels like Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four are leaders of this world.

00:35:16.747 --> 00:35:20.747
[DEREK]: They've kind of handed over Earth to the scientists.

00:35:21.147 --> 00:35:27.567
[DEREK]: That's this is not like our world, you know, Reed and the Fantastic Four are the ones that are being depended on to save the planet.

00:35:27.567 --> 00:35:32.687
[DEREK]: They're the ones that have to make the decisions that will do something to defend against Galactus.

00:35:32.687 --> 00:35:54.927
[JOHN]: Well, and the Baxter building almost looks like the UN building in New York, and in fact, we see Sue addressing this council of what's termed the Future Foundation of the UN, because we also do see a little place and flag setting, which is empty, for Latveria as well.

00:35:54.927 --> 00:35:55.567
[DEREK]: We certainly do.

00:35:55.567 --> 00:35:59.867
[JOHN]: So where old doom face comes from.

00:35:59.867 --> 00:36:00.907
[DEREK]: Victor Von Doom in the comics.

00:36:00.907 --> 00:36:01.927
[JOHN]: Of Victor.

00:36:01.927 --> 00:36:04.107
[DEREK]: Yeah, but it's empty, there's no representative of that particular.

00:36:04.107 --> 00:36:05.447
[JOHN]: I know, but I was dead excited.

00:36:05.447 --> 00:36:16.507
[JOHN]: It was like salivating, like waiting for the bacon to cook, and getting all the smells, and just going, oh, that's where that's where old Vicky Von Doom sits.

00:36:16.507 --> 00:36:18.187
[DEREK]: Exactly, exactly.

00:36:18.187 --> 00:36:32.707
[DEREK]: But again, I do like the idea that the concept here, that Shalla-Bal has sacrificed herself to save her planet, yet she's led Galactus to multiple planets over and over and over again.

00:36:33.167 --> 00:36:42.467
[DEREK]: And the point that Johnny is making to her after doing this translation, after working with her, the point that he's making is you do realize that every single person on those planets has had people that they care about.

00:36:42.467 --> 00:36:52.087
[DEREK]: And we can hear their screams as those planets have died over the decades, centuries of you leading Galactus throughout the galaxy to destroy multiple planets.

00:36:52.087 --> 00:37:00.527
[DEREK]: You know, and that's the moment of realization that Shalla-Bal has, that she's destroyed other people and she's been lucky enough to keep her planet safe.

00:37:00.867 --> 00:37:03.687
[DEREK]: But every other planet wanted to be safe.

00:37:03.687 --> 00:37:12.727
[DEREK]: So it's a cool twist on the story that it's Johnny that sorts that out and creates an ally for Earth in this battle that they're going to have.

00:37:12.727 --> 00:37:13.907
[JOHN]: Yeah, exactly.

00:37:14.567 --> 00:37:15.787
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:37:15.787 --> 00:37:21.047
[DEREK]: But let's get on to our scientific notation three, which is where the Fantastic Four decide to go into space.

00:37:21.047 --> 00:37:23.987
[DEREK]: So we've called this one Battle Beyond the Stars.

00:37:23.987 --> 00:37:27.947
[DEREK]: The Fantastic Four are, of course, sciencing everything out as they would.

00:37:27.947 --> 00:37:31.447
[DEREK]: You've got Reed Richards here and you've got the family who are all scientists.

00:37:31.447 --> 00:37:37.427
[DEREK]: So they're working out exactly where Galactus is by going through the planets that have been destroyed over the course of the centuries.

00:37:37.427 --> 00:37:41.047
[DEREK]: I love this idea that that is the path that leads them to Galactus.

00:37:41.047 --> 00:37:42.967
[JOHN]: Yeah, it's like dot to dot.

00:37:43.347 --> 00:37:55.207
[JOHN]: It's joining the dots of the destroyed planets in order to find out where Galactus currently is and to follow as much as they can, where the Herald was.

00:37:55.207 --> 00:37:57.707
[DEREK]: And did you notice they have their faster than light drive to get there?

00:37:57.707 --> 00:37:59.827
[JOHN]: They certainly do, yes.

00:38:00.327 --> 00:38:08.147
[JOHN]: It almost reminds me of Ahsoka with the ship that's used to get them to the other galaxy.

00:38:08.267 --> 00:38:09.347
[DEREK]: Exactly.

00:38:09.627 --> 00:38:14.607
[DEREK]: Or of course Mass Effect, which has the transfer system that allows them to get to the galaxies.

00:38:14.607 --> 00:38:20.167
[DEREK]: But of course, if anybody is going to be able to create an FTL, a faster than light drive, it's going to be Reed Richards.

00:38:20.167 --> 00:38:29.727
[DEREK]: But as they get out there, I love this scene as they arrive and we see the collapse of the planet that Galactus is destroying with his ship as he's coming through.

00:38:29.727 --> 00:38:30.827
[DEREK]: It's such a cool scene.

00:38:30.827 --> 00:38:32.667
[DEREK]: It all folds in on itself, isn't it?

00:38:32.747 --> 00:38:33.587
[JOHN]: Oh, definitely.

00:38:33.587 --> 00:38:35.087
[JOHN]: Yeah.

00:38:35.087 --> 00:38:36.867
[JOHN]: It was just really well done.

00:38:36.867 --> 00:38:42.047
[JOHN]: And then understanding that that's just Galactus' ship.

00:38:42.247 --> 00:38:46.987
[JOHN]: I thought this was like, where they confront Galactus, it was really wonderful.

00:38:46.987 --> 00:38:51.447
[JOHN]: I like the fact that you're not quite entirely sure, is Galactus in the ship?

00:38:51.447 --> 00:38:52.947
[JOHN]: Is he not?

00:38:52.947 --> 00:38:55.927
[JOHN]: In a sense, is he almost like a celestial?

00:38:55.927 --> 00:39:08.867
[JOHN]: Because I like the fact that when the Silver Surfer does, say, you know, come this way to meet Galactus, you can clearly see that you're in the ship.

00:39:08.867 --> 00:39:12.167
[JOHN]: But then when it gets to, it just gets to this black void.

00:39:12.167 --> 00:39:12.587
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:39:12.707 --> 00:39:14.167
[JOHN]: And you just get the eyes.

00:39:14.167 --> 00:39:14.927
[DEREK]: Oh, that's so cool.

00:39:14.927 --> 00:39:16.767
[JOHN]: And it's really well done.

00:39:16.767 --> 00:39:24.447
[JOHN]: And then gradually, it's almost as though your eyes are becoming accustomed to the darkness, so you get to see Galactus.

00:39:24.447 --> 00:39:28.167
[JOHN]: And I thought Galactus was just rendered so well here.

00:39:28.687 --> 00:39:32.967
[JOHN]: And I mean, to the point where I was going, I recognize the face.

00:39:32.967 --> 00:39:40.107
[JOHN]: I was there just going, what is so familiar about the face?

00:39:40.107 --> 00:39:57.747
[JOHN]: And I have to say, not to say that the person who plays Galactus, Ralph Ineson, I wouldn't know the name, but I recognize the face because Ralph Ineson has been in so many British TV shows.

00:39:57.747 --> 00:40:00.147
[JOHN]: And that's, I think, why he's so familiar.

00:40:00.587 --> 00:40:06.587
[JOHN]: As well as like, lastly, with an ever increasing portfolio of movie roles.

00:40:06.587 --> 00:40:18.247
[JOHN]: And he's been so familiar generally as well because of just the look, but he does generally play the bad guys or sinister guys or, you know, ambiguous.

00:40:19.307 --> 00:40:19.807
[JOHN]: Are they good?

00:40:19.807 --> 00:40:20.547
[JOHN]: Are they evil?

00:40:20.547 --> 00:40:24.767
[JOHN]: Kind of, you know, the kind of hand grenade chuckers.

00:40:24.767 --> 00:40:25.387
[JOHN]: Are they good?

00:40:25.387 --> 00:40:26.227
[JOHN]: Are they bad?

00:40:26.227 --> 00:40:26.407
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:40:26.407 --> 00:40:27.287
[JOHN]: We don't know.

00:40:27.287 --> 00:40:35.127
[DEREK]: Even in The Office, which is the one that people probably know most for the British Office, even in that, he's the a-hole that hangs around with David Brent.

00:40:35.127 --> 00:40:41.107
[DEREK]: Like he's David Brent's only friend, which can only mean he's an evil guy, you know.

00:40:41.107 --> 00:40:42.807
[JOHN]: Well, yeah, he's dubious.

00:40:42.807 --> 00:40:45.947
[JOHN]: He's kind of on the scales of good and evil.

00:40:46.307 --> 00:40:48.627
[JOHN]: Where does that scale really fall?

00:40:48.787 --> 00:40:50.947
[JOHN]: Or does it just flip back and forth?

00:40:50.947 --> 00:40:54.327
[JOHN]: But I loved the fact that it was like, ah, yes, that's who it is.

00:40:54.327 --> 00:40:57.527
[JOHN]: You know, as soon as I sort of looked up the name.

00:40:57.527 --> 00:40:59.447
[JOHN]: But it was so familiar.

00:40:59.447 --> 00:41:03.027
[JOHN]: And I thought Galactus looked really, really good here.

00:41:03.027 --> 00:41:06.747
[JOHN]: I loved the, and his ship as well.

00:41:06.747 --> 00:41:26.867
[JOHN]: And we have this moment where, in scanning the Fantastic Four, he sees that Sue is pregnant and wants to exchange the persistence of Earth for her unborn baby.

00:41:26.867 --> 00:41:37.127
[JOHN]: And I love the fact that he, it's that he absolutely senses huge power in this unborn baby.

00:41:37.127 --> 00:41:49.707
[JOHN]: Because I think what's really interesting here is, he's this planet-devouring colossus, but it never satiates his hunger.

00:41:49.707 --> 00:41:50.247
[JOHN]: Exactly.

00:41:50.247 --> 00:41:53.427
[JOHN]: He's always hungry, always hungry.

00:41:53.427 --> 00:42:08.767
[JOHN]: And in viewing the power contained within the unborn child of Reed Richards and Sue Storm, this is the way that, you know, this is his lifeline.

00:42:08.767 --> 00:42:12.707
[JOHN]: This is his answer to the problem that he never gets hungry.

00:42:12.707 --> 00:42:13.847
[JOHN]: This will satiate him.

00:42:14.307 --> 00:42:17.807
[JOHN]: And I just thought it was really, really dark.

00:42:17.807 --> 00:42:35.347
[JOHN]: I mean, it almost had like slight connotations of, of Saturn in mythology, eating his own babies, his own baby children, because he's worried that one of them will usurp him.

00:42:35.347 --> 00:42:36.307
[DEREK]: Oh, right.

00:42:36.307 --> 00:42:41.107
[JOHN]: And it had that kind of sense to it here.

00:42:41.107 --> 00:42:47.067
[DEREK]: And there's also in the MCU side of things, for Galactus, to me, it struck me that it's similar to Thanos.

00:42:47.067 --> 00:42:53.787
[DEREK]: You know, Thanos' plan was to rid the universe of half of the beings, and then he can rest.

00:42:53.787 --> 00:42:58.607
[DEREK]: And here Galactus is saying, I eat planets because I can't satiate my hunger.

00:42:58.607 --> 00:42:59.887
[DEREK]: I'm constantly hungry.

00:42:59.887 --> 00:43:01.727
[DEREK]: I have to feed that hunger.

00:43:01.727 --> 00:43:07.407
[DEREK]: But if I take the power from this child, if I eat this child, basically, that will satiate my hunger.

00:43:07.407 --> 00:43:11.867
[DEREK]: I can finally rest after these millennia of traveling throughout the galaxies.

00:43:12.187 --> 00:43:14.827
[DEREK]: That's such an interesting way of thinking about them.

00:43:14.827 --> 00:43:19.027
[DEREK]: You know, they often talk about villains believing they're the heroes.

00:43:19.027 --> 00:43:21.187
[DEREK]: Here he can do nothing other than eat planets.

00:43:21.187 --> 00:43:24.267
[DEREK]: And he says, I can stop eating planets if I just eat this one child.

00:43:24.267 --> 00:43:34.207
[JOHN]: It's interesting the problems and the types of solutions that might come to those specific and very unique problems of Galactus.

00:43:34.207 --> 00:43:39.887
[JOHN]: But they do refuse, of course, and have to go on the run.

00:43:40.107 --> 00:43:44.527
[JOHN]: I love the moment where he sends the Silver Surfer after them.

00:43:44.527 --> 00:43:56.767
[JOHN]: And, you know, the Silver Surfer catches up with their ship as they're trying to get back to their faster-than-light drive in order to escape, escape properly.

00:43:56.767 --> 00:44:20.847
[JOHN]: I love the fact that the Silver Surfer can, you know, has no mask, so it can move through the steel of their ship and goes to almost grab the unborn child from Sue's womb, and has that kind of slight invisibility look, where almost like her hand has gone into her stomach.

00:44:21.467 --> 00:44:26.727
[JOHN]: And they managed to then go at light speed immediately.

00:44:26.727 --> 00:44:35.707
[JOHN]: I just thought it was a really kind of, I'd say it felt really real and dark, but they do escape.

00:44:35.707 --> 00:44:42.447
[JOHN]: But on the journey back to Earth, Sue gives birth to their son.

00:44:42.447 --> 00:44:47.207
[DEREK]: Little Franklin Richards is in the MCU already.

00:44:47.687 --> 00:44:50.047
[DEREK]: A big moment, Franklin Richards is a big character.

00:44:50.047 --> 00:44:54.547
[DEREK]: And it took 10 years after they started, I think 1968 is when his first appearance is.

00:44:54.547 --> 00:45:02.587
[DEREK]: And he's become a bigger and bigger character over the years, eventually, most recently becoming a massive character, setting up the new version of the Ultimate Universe.

00:45:02.587 --> 00:45:04.207
[DEREK]: So a massive character.

00:45:04.207 --> 00:45:13.967
[DEREK]: It's really interesting that this is the first story they've decided to tell in the MCU as effectively the birth of Franklin Richards and him being the target of Galactus.

00:45:13.967 --> 00:45:15.367
[DEREK]: What an interesting story.

00:45:16.267 --> 00:45:26.907
[DEREK]: But yeah, they've they've decided that they're not going to sacrifice the unborn child to to save Earth now and then go when they arrive back to Earth, they have to go to the press conference and tell them all why they failed.

00:45:26.967 --> 00:45:29.847
[JOHN]: Yeah, that was good as well.

00:45:29.847 --> 00:45:33.087
[JOHN]: I do like the Fantastic Four failing.

00:45:33.087 --> 00:45:33.987
[DEREK]: Yes.

00:45:33.987 --> 00:45:37.307
[JOHN]: Now they also can do that quite a lot.

00:45:37.307 --> 00:45:45.027
[JOHN]: And because well, it's mainly because Reed Richards has failed with his particular gizmo or his experiment or whatever.

00:45:45.027 --> 00:45:47.327
[DEREK]: His calculations didn't go exactly as expected.

00:45:48.107 --> 00:45:50.687
[DEREK]: Or somebody used emotions overruled.

00:45:50.687 --> 00:45:51.847
[JOHN]: Exactly.

00:45:51.847 --> 00:45:59.927
[JOHN]: But I kind of, I enjoyed this because I mean, in this world on Earth 828, they are this pinnacle.

00:45:59.927 --> 00:46:05.507
[JOHN]: And they've always been correct, right, successful.

00:46:05.507 --> 00:46:09.007
[JOHN]: And all of a sudden, they've made a personal choice.

00:46:10.507 --> 00:46:12.587
[JOHN]: Rightly.

00:46:13.887 --> 00:46:24.167
[JOHN]: And they get that selfish end of public opinion, which is, well, you know, the greater good.

00:46:24.167 --> 00:46:28.287
[JOHN]: And it's that whole thing of one person's life against millions.

00:46:28.287 --> 00:46:33.067
[JOHN]: And they're saying, why didn't you sacrifice this person's life, even though it's a child?

00:46:33.507 --> 00:46:45.687
[JOHN]: So, I like how that kind of just pulls them down a peg or two because of the fear that's been created by the heralding of Galactus as well.

00:46:45.687 --> 00:46:47.187
[JOHN]: So, it's all captured into that.

00:46:47.187 --> 00:46:53.107
[JOHN]: And I like how, you know, crowds start to fall at the bottom of the Baxter building.

00:46:53.107 --> 00:47:07.267
[JOHN]: And it requires this intervention from Sue with her baby to say, you know, I wouldn't give up my child for this earth, but I wouldn't give up this earth for my child.

00:47:07.267 --> 00:47:08.307
[DEREK]: I really like that moment.

00:47:08.307 --> 00:47:17.467
[JOHN]: Yeah, it's such a good sort of way of saying, look, I'm not gonna give up my child, but I'm not gonna give up on earth.

00:47:17.467 --> 00:47:19.547
[JOHN]: We will fight for you.

00:47:19.547 --> 00:47:20.447
[DEREK]: Yes, exactly.

00:47:20.447 --> 00:47:20.747
[JOHN]: You know?

00:47:20.747 --> 00:47:23.207
[DEREK]: Yeah, we are still the people that you've trusted.

00:47:23.207 --> 00:47:23.407
[JOHN]: Yeah.

00:47:23.407 --> 00:47:25.067
[DEREK]: And we all need to work together.

00:47:25.067 --> 00:47:26.447
[DEREK]: I love that about this movie.

00:47:27.847 --> 00:47:30.247
[DEREK]: That's why it feels so hopeful.

00:47:30.247 --> 00:47:39.007
[DEREK]: You know, it's not them turning the backs on them or the Fantastic Four overcoming their problem, that the world has put the pressure on them to say, you still need to solve this.

00:47:39.007 --> 00:47:40.327
[DEREK]: You know, it's not that.

00:47:40.327 --> 00:47:47.187
[DEREK]: It is about them going, look, I know we've disappointed you because of the decision we made, but that doesn't change the fact that we are here to support you.

00:47:47.187 --> 00:47:51.107
[DEREK]: We are here to help and we will all work together on this problem to solve it.

00:47:51.107 --> 00:48:03.567
[DEREK]: Because the other thing is, yeah, okay, you've decided that you're not gonna give Franklin to Galactus at that moment when you're out in space, but if he comes here and eats the planet, everybody's dead anyway, including Franklin, including all of you.

00:48:03.567 --> 00:48:10.747
[DEREK]: So you still have to work on the problem, but I love the idea that it's the entire planet Earth working together on this new plan of Reed Richards.

00:48:10.747 --> 00:48:12.547
[DEREK]: And the plan is to move the planet.

00:48:12.547 --> 00:48:18.527
[DEREK]: Now we haven't really talked about this as the movie went on, but we had our expectations for what Fantastic Four was gonna be.

00:48:18.527 --> 00:48:26.167
[DEREK]: I think myself certainly, I thought we were gonna maybe spend 45 minutes to an hour in this 60s type universe.

00:48:26.167 --> 00:48:29.027
[DEREK]: And then some decision was gonna be made or something was gonna happen.

00:48:29.027 --> 00:48:34.347
[DEREK]: And the Fantastic Four were gonna appear in our normal 616 universe as a normal MCU.

00:48:34.347 --> 00:48:42.787
[DEREK]: You know, we'd suddenly see the Fantastic Four over in that universe, maybe dealing with characters that we've seen in the movies and TV shows so far.

00:48:42.787 --> 00:48:46.447
[DEREK]: And this was definitely a point where I thought, Oh, I see what's gonna happen here.

00:48:46.447 --> 00:48:51.987
[DEREK]: They're gonna move Earth into the 616 universe, and it's gonna clash with our Earth.

00:48:51.987 --> 00:48:53.607
[JOHN]: So it's gonna be an incursion.

00:48:53.607 --> 00:48:57.007
[DEREK]: Yeah, suddenly an Earth will appear above the Earth that we're used to.

00:48:57.007 --> 00:48:59.067
[DEREK]: And something like that.

00:48:59.067 --> 00:49:00.887
[DEREK]: Amazing that it didn't go that way at all.

00:49:00.887 --> 00:49:02.187
[JOHN]: No, it didn't.

00:49:02.187 --> 00:49:05.167
[JOHN]: And that was kind of one of the surprises here.

00:49:05.167 --> 00:49:10.647
[JOHN]: I think more generally, the movie in and of itself is very much.

00:49:10.647 --> 00:49:19.087
[JOHN]: It didn't go the way I thought it was going to, and is way more a self-contained story within the 828 Earth.

00:49:19.307 --> 00:49:19.627
[JOHN]: It is.

00:49:19.627 --> 00:49:38.467
[JOHN]: It's only because of the end credit scene after Thunderbolts and with their ship, their very recognizable ship orbiting into Earth 616 that we kind of, I guess, thought then, OK, so the movie is going to show how that happens.

00:49:38.467 --> 00:49:40.067
[JOHN]: I guess that's the expectation.

00:49:40.067 --> 00:49:40.927
[DEREK]: Nope.

00:49:40.927 --> 00:49:42.347
[JOHN]: But not at all.

00:49:42.347 --> 00:49:50.567
[DEREK]: Yeah, we don't even know who's aboard that ship because that movie doesn't end with them leaving their home dimension or their own planet or anything like that.

00:49:50.567 --> 00:49:52.967
[JOHN]: That was actually a nice surprise for me.

00:49:52.967 --> 00:49:55.087
[JOHN]: I like the fact that they kept it in this world.

00:49:55.087 --> 00:50:03.267
[JOHN]: They didn't overexpand the world and the Fantastic Four in that world too much.

00:50:03.427 --> 00:50:11.187
[JOHN]: It kept it on a very tight story, really, ultimately around Galactus and saving the Earth.

00:50:11.187 --> 00:50:11.527
[DEREK]: Yeah.

00:50:11.527 --> 00:50:12.567
[DEREK]: So I was thinking of you, John.

00:50:12.867 --> 00:50:17.447
[DEREK]: I must admit, we have talked about this off air, so we'll talk about it now on the podcast.

00:50:17.507 --> 00:50:19.907
[DEREK]: But I was thinking about you when I watched this movie and it got to the end.

00:50:19.907 --> 00:50:41.867
[DEREK]: And I was going, John has been saying for years that one of the things, even though you love the Connected Universe, the MCU, you've been saying for years in our podcast, you just wish sometimes somebody could break out and make a movie in the MCU that isn't so connected, isn't so bound by all of the rules of the MCU, isn't bound to have, you know, Iron Man pops up to have a special appearance for Captain America, Bob Sim.

00:50:41.867 --> 00:50:46.867
[DEREK]: And that's exactly what this movie is until you get to the post credit scene, which sets up something else in the future.

00:50:47.287 --> 00:50:59.127
[DEREK]: This is one of the first Marvel movies in years that has been its own thing in its own universe with its own complete style without having to depend on other MCU characters.

00:50:59.127 --> 00:51:00.087
[DEREK]: It works quite well.

00:51:00.087 --> 00:51:01.147
[JOHN]: Absolutely.

00:51:01.147 --> 00:51:17.407
[JOHN]: But the connections with, say, the Earth 616 MCU are just way more low key and subtle, which is that they can move and teleport between multiverses.

00:51:17.407 --> 00:51:23.947
[JOHN]: I mean, you even have Reed Richards acknowledging that multiverses occur.

00:51:25.827 --> 00:51:27.927
[JOHN]: But it doesn't need to go any further than that.

00:51:27.927 --> 00:51:28.707
[DEREK]: Exactly.

00:51:28.707 --> 00:51:31.987
[JOHN]: And I mean, that don't necessarily teleport to another universe.

00:51:31.987 --> 00:51:34.387
[JOHN]: It was to another part of their universe.

00:51:34.407 --> 00:51:50.807
[JOHN]: But equally, if you get the calculations wrong or whatever, which Reed will inevitably do, then it will end up going trans-universal rather than within the universe.

00:51:50.807 --> 00:51:57.287
[JOHN]: So I think that's what's really kind of interesting here.

00:51:57.347 --> 00:51:58.467
[DEREK]: Yeah, absolutely.

00:51:58.467 --> 00:52:07.867
[DEREK]: I'm going to pause us there and move this into our scientific notation for, just purely because I want to get this other movie title in as our scientific notation.

00:52:07.867 --> 00:52:09.287
[DEREK]: Escape from New York.

00:52:09.287 --> 00:52:10.847
[DEREK]: So we already talked a little bit about this.

00:52:10.847 --> 00:52:19.767
[DEREK]: This is kind of the plan that they go through this idea that they need to get out of, well, the Earth needs to get out of the way of Galactus is kind of the plan that they make.

00:52:19.767 --> 00:52:31.627
[DEREK]: But just interesting that that plan doesn't go too well because Silver Surfer is on the trail and she destroys all of the, all of the bridges, these transport bridges in this cool scene.

00:52:31.627 --> 00:52:36.567
[DEREK]: As we see, the Fantastic Four are working with all of these places across the world.

00:52:36.567 --> 00:52:37.507
[DEREK]: Everybody's checking in.

00:52:37.507 --> 00:52:39.347
[DEREK]: It's a real hopeful moment, I thought.

00:52:39.347 --> 00:52:39.747
[JOHN]: Absolutely.

00:52:39.747 --> 00:52:40.967
[DEREK]: Where all of these places.

00:52:40.967 --> 00:52:45.127
[JOHN]: Really movie magic, hopeful.

00:52:46.147 --> 00:52:47.927
[DEREK]: It's like Independence Day or something like that.

00:52:48.227 --> 00:52:50.867
[DEREK]: But of course it's London, France checking in.

00:52:50.947 --> 00:52:55.467
[DEREK]: It's not, you know, Donegal or anywhere else in the UK.

00:52:55.467 --> 00:52:56.027
[DEREK]: Manchester?

00:52:56.027 --> 00:52:56.727
[DEREK]: Hello Manchester?

00:52:56.727 --> 00:52:57.307
[DEREK]: Can you help out?

00:52:57.307 --> 00:53:00.107
[DEREK]: No, no, it's only London that can do this.

00:53:00.107 --> 00:53:05.007
[JOHN]: But it is that real hopeful, positive element.

00:53:05.007 --> 00:53:14.767
[JOHN]: And I think that's why I know I maybe I have that sort of more sceptical sort of view, because I was like going, Oh, isn't this just lovely?

00:53:14.767 --> 00:53:17.567
[JOHN]: Wouldn't you know if this could happen?

00:53:17.567 --> 00:53:29.087
[JOHN]: Like, I mean, but it never would here, because I mean, you know, can't even organise, you know, to do something good in other parts of the world.

00:53:29.867 --> 00:53:37.547
[JOHN]: And we're also kind of possessive over the resources that we have, or the resources that we want, and all this kind of stuff.

00:53:37.547 --> 00:53:41.267
[DEREK]: But that might make our country less powerful in the world.

00:53:41.267 --> 00:53:51.527
[DEREK]: Like there's a great moment in Reed's speech to the world when he tells everybody, I love the line that he says, where he says, if you have a skill, we need it now to help the entire earth.

00:53:51.527 --> 00:53:52.327
[DEREK]: I love the line.

00:53:52.327 --> 00:53:53.447
[DEREK]: It was really inspirational.

00:53:53.447 --> 00:53:56.327
[DEREK]: It felt like I have a skill, I can go out and help out.

00:53:56.327 --> 00:54:01.507
[DEREK]: We can all get together and save our planet from the world, but that would never happen.

00:54:01.667 --> 00:54:07.447
[JOHN]: The thing is, the bit I really liked is that this is like that UN moment.

00:54:07.447 --> 00:54:11.287
[JOHN]: It is the future foundation moment.

00:54:11.287 --> 00:54:17.687
[JOHN]: People of the world unite collectively in order to save the planet.

00:54:17.687 --> 00:54:25.287
[JOHN]: I guess what we saw more recently maybe is around COVID where that happened, where people collectively took decisions.

00:54:25.287 --> 00:54:26.947
[DEREK]: I guess saving millions of people's lives.

00:54:26.947 --> 00:54:27.847
[JOHN]: Exactly.

00:54:27.847 --> 00:54:31.347
[JOHN]: I think that's what was so hopeful, positive about it.

00:54:31.367 --> 00:54:35.927
[JOHN]: Then I was like, at this moment in time, would that happen?

00:54:35.927 --> 00:54:36.467
[JOHN]: Probably not.

00:54:36.467 --> 00:54:38.087
[DEREK]: Probably never happen again.

00:54:38.087 --> 00:54:44.427
[JOHN]: It was just, it was a nice moment, but then the sceptic in me started rearing its head.

00:54:44.427 --> 00:54:47.027
[DEREK]: But it happened less than five years ago, John.

00:54:47.067 --> 00:54:47.627
[DEREK]: That happened.

00:54:47.627 --> 00:54:48.827
[DEREK]: That happened in the world, you know?

00:54:48.867 --> 00:54:50.687
[JOHN]: I've looked how they tried to turn that down.

00:54:50.687 --> 00:54:51.607
[DEREK]: I know.

00:54:51.607 --> 00:54:52.467
[DEREK]: Maybe it could happen again.

00:54:52.487 --> 00:54:53.047
[JOHN]: Anyway.

00:54:53.047 --> 00:54:54.287
[DEREK]: Don't lose your hope, John.

00:54:54.287 --> 00:54:55.527
[DEREK]: I was.

00:54:56.707 --> 00:55:02.347
[DEREK]: But Silver Surfer destroying all of these systems across the planet.

00:55:02.347 --> 00:55:05.227
[DEREK]: Johnny stops her with the conversation we talked about earlier on.

00:55:05.227 --> 00:55:08.407
[DEREK]: They do have one of these transport gates left.

00:55:08.667 --> 00:55:14.067
[DEREK]: They can't enact the plan they had, which was to move the Earth before Galactus gets there, and they have to come up with a new plan.

00:55:14.067 --> 00:55:32.787
[DEREK]: But the reason why I've called this point to get from New York is because I wanted to get in some kind of conversation about the pseudo villain that we have in the movie, Harvey Elder, Mole Man, as he's called by Reed Richards, because we don't get to see many of the villains that the Fantastic Four fight.

00:55:32.787 --> 00:55:35.227
[DEREK]: Galactus is clearly the biggest one.

00:55:35.227 --> 00:55:42.607
[DEREK]: But Harvey Elder was the first ever villain that the Fantastic Four fought in the first issue of Fantastic Four.

00:55:42.607 --> 00:55:45.327
[DEREK]: So he goes all the way back to that issue.

00:55:45.747 --> 00:55:47.647
[DEREK]: And he does look quite like the character.

00:55:47.647 --> 00:55:53.287
[DEREK]: They did a great job of casting and a great job of doing the costume for him.

00:55:53.287 --> 00:55:57.427
[DEREK]: Played here by Paul Walter Hauser, who we know from Cobra Kai.

00:55:57.787 --> 00:56:00.327
[DEREK]: And he's just gone on to have a great career afterwards.

00:56:00.327 --> 00:56:02.067
[DEREK]: It's kind of cool to see him in this role here.

00:56:02.067 --> 00:56:04.427
[DEREK]: I think he's a bit of a scene stealer.

00:56:04.427 --> 00:56:13.187
[DEREK]: I love that it's Sue that sorts out the negotiation with him to take all the people from New York underground to save them from the attack while the Fantastic Four do their thing.

00:56:14.727 --> 00:56:15.907
[DEREK]: I think he does, I think he does.

00:56:15.907 --> 00:56:18.307
[JOHN]: And so she is able to negotiate with him.

00:56:18.307 --> 00:56:31.767
[DEREK]: Yeah, but also Reed, and I think Johnny also calls him Moldman as well, which despite him being from Subterranea, this underground place on Earth A28, he doesn't like being called Moldman.

00:56:31.767 --> 00:56:32.147
[JOHN]: No.

00:56:32.147 --> 00:56:32.987
[DEREK]: It's pretty insulting.

00:56:32.987 --> 00:56:38.087
[DEREK]: But Sue treats him with respect, understands he's the leader of another society below ground.

00:56:38.087 --> 00:56:43.407
[DEREK]: And if they'll just work together, he can also save the planet along with everybody else as well.

00:56:43.407 --> 00:56:47.347
[DEREK]: This inspirational and hopeful moment works for them too, right?

00:56:47.347 --> 00:56:48.587
[JOHN]: Yeah, exactly.

00:56:48.587 --> 00:56:51.427
[JOHN]: And I thought it was really good.

00:56:51.427 --> 00:57:04.287
[JOHN]: And it was good to at least have one of the other sort of enemies of the Fantastic Four that were slated for this movie actually appear.

00:57:05.027 --> 00:57:05.467
[JOHN]: You know?

00:57:05.467 --> 00:57:07.927
[JOHN]: So, yeah, I enjoyed this.

00:57:07.927 --> 00:57:20.967
[JOHN]: I love the fact that once the people in New York are down there, that you see the the mole women down there with the goggles, the same goggles that Harvey Elder has.

00:57:20.967 --> 00:57:34.667
[JOHN]: And I like the fact that Galactus is so massive because the reason they move them all down there is because, yes, Galactus arriving, he's just going to destroy all the skyscrapers and all the buildings.

00:57:34.667 --> 00:57:57.627
[JOHN]: But I love that when he's actually, when they're all down there and Galactus is walking through, you know, into the baited trap, that it's the underground world of Subterranea is also at risk, because you can see the dust, the cracks appearing in the rock as the weight of Galactus on the earth.

00:57:57.847 --> 00:57:59.887
[JOHN]: So it wasn't all plain sailing.

00:57:59.887 --> 00:58:00.667
[DEREK]: Yeah, absolutely.

00:58:00.667 --> 00:58:05.767
[DEREK]: But as you say, just great to involve them, and great to have these underground tunnels where the humanoids can go.

00:58:05.767 --> 00:58:06.947
[DEREK]: You know, it's a great way to use this.

00:58:06.947 --> 00:58:12.027
[DEREK]: You know, if you're going to do this story set on 828, use everything you can, you know?

00:58:12.507 --> 00:58:16.447
[DEREK]: This is a world that doesn't have any other superheroes other than the Fantastic Four here.

00:58:16.447 --> 00:58:18.067
[DEREK]: They are the ones that deal with all the villains.

00:58:18.067 --> 00:58:20.707
[DEREK]: I didn't even mention it earlier on, but I think we mentioned it in the synopsis.

00:58:20.707 --> 00:58:32.747
[DEREK]: I love this idea that as soon as Reed Richards find out that he has a child on the way, he goes, Right, well, these are the 14 criminal organizations that are in the city that have been keeping a watch on.

00:58:32.747 --> 00:58:35.147
[DEREK]: I've sent out the police to capture them all and take them all away.

00:58:35.147 --> 00:58:39.047
[DEREK]: So he's effectively childproofing the city to make it even safer.

00:58:39.047 --> 00:58:42.607
[DEREK]: He does seem to be the leader of the planet and has a plan for everything.

00:58:42.607 --> 00:58:44.187
[DEREK]: So I love that.

00:58:44.187 --> 00:58:46.127
[DEREK]: You can only do that in A2A.

00:58:46.127 --> 00:58:49.967
[DEREK]: It wouldn't work in our normal MCU universe that we're in.

00:58:49.967 --> 00:58:52.327
[DEREK]: There are too many questions about why hasn't somebody else popped up?

00:58:52.687 --> 00:58:56.447
[DEREK]: Why isn't Daredevil protecting his local area when this is happening?

00:58:56.447 --> 00:58:57.787
[DEREK]: You know, that kind of stuff.

00:58:57.787 --> 00:58:58.827
[DEREK]: But you don't have to deal with that one.

00:58:58.827 --> 00:59:04.407
[DEREK]: It's just a Fantastic Four focused planet or Fantastic Four focused universe like this.

00:59:04.407 --> 00:59:05.887
[JOHN]: Not at all.

00:59:05.887 --> 00:59:07.707
[JOHN]: Yeah, so no, this was good.

00:59:08.447 --> 00:59:24.547
[JOHN]: You know, after failing to escape from their universe or from their galaxy, they have to escape from New York with the arrival of Galactus, who doesn't fall for their initial trap.

00:59:24.547 --> 00:59:32.207
[JOHN]: He sees that there's been the bait and switch and that Franklin has now been put into the Baxter building.

00:59:32.207 --> 00:59:41.587
[JOHN]: And as Galactus calls them clever bugs, he realises, not so stupid as I may think.

00:59:41.587 --> 00:59:52.087
[JOHN]: So yes, ultimately, he heads towards the Baxter building to get Franklin, which he does, just chucking.

00:59:52.087 --> 01:00:03.267
[JOHN]: I mean, the Baxter building is shut down by Herbie, but his hand just comes straight through all that security and grabs little Franklin from his cot.

01:00:03.267 --> 01:00:10.707
[DEREK]: I do think there's just that little moment with Herbie, where he seems delighted with himself that he should put the shutters down just in time for Galactus.

01:00:10.707 --> 01:00:14.127
[DEREK]: And when he can't see Galactus, he's like, Oh, Grant, I think I'm fine now.

01:00:14.127 --> 01:00:15.267
[DEREK]: We'll go back to play with the baby.

01:00:15.267 --> 01:00:19.047
[DEREK]: And in comes the hand to take the baby.

01:00:19.047 --> 01:00:26.827
[DEREK]: But let's then move on to our final point, our scientific notation five, which is the day The Invisible Woman stood still.

01:00:26.827 --> 01:00:28.467
[DEREK]: The plan hasn't worked at all.

01:00:28.467 --> 01:00:29.807
[DEREK]: Franklin didn't work his base.

01:00:29.807 --> 01:00:32.067
[DEREK]: He went off and collected him from the Baxter building.

01:00:32.627 --> 01:00:38.067
[DEREK]: But the plan was to have all of the team push Galactus through this portal.

01:00:38.067 --> 01:00:38.607
[DEREK]: I love this.

01:00:38.607 --> 01:00:43.747
[DEREK]: I loved seeing all each of the team members using their powers to push him back and push him back.

01:00:43.747 --> 01:00:47.567
[DEREK]: But most importantly, seeing Sue use her powers.

01:00:47.567 --> 01:00:54.667
[DEREK]: The Invisible Woman, when Fantastic Four started as a book, as far as I remember, they know there's something about each of their characters.

01:00:54.667 --> 01:00:56.787
[DEREK]: Each of their powers are connected to their characteristics.

01:00:56.787 --> 01:01:04.887
[DEREK]: And it was almost like the reason why the invisible girl, Sue Storm, was invisible was because people didn't pay attention to her because she was just a woman, just a girl.

01:01:04.887 --> 01:01:08.407
[DEREK]: That was almost what it was like in the early 60s, in 1961.

01:01:08.407 --> 01:01:10.807
[DEREK]: And over the years, she's become more and more powerful.

01:01:10.807 --> 01:01:17.207
[DEREK]: She has developed those powers, or the powers have been used so well by certain writers and many writers now over the years.

01:01:17.207 --> 01:01:24.827
[DEREK]: So seeing how powerful she is here, she's dealing with this being almost on her own, using all of her power to push him back.

01:01:24.827 --> 01:01:27.607
[DEREK]: And it's only then that the rest of the team start to join in.

01:01:27.607 --> 01:01:29.747
[DEREK]: But she's using her power to push him back.

01:01:29.907 --> 01:01:33.707
[JOHN]: Yeah, but I mean, they join in.

01:01:33.707 --> 01:01:39.067
[JOHN]: Reed Richards is to get Franklin out of the hands of Galactus.

01:01:39.067 --> 01:01:45.407
[JOHN]: It is Sue's power pushing him back.

01:01:45.407 --> 01:01:57.567
[JOHN]: It's Ben sort of taking out the skyscraper support so that Galactus, as he's gotten sort of a handhold to stop Sue's power, you know, that's taken away from him.

01:01:58.047 --> 01:02:03.467
[JOHN]: And Johnny's job is to pull the switch to initiate this 37-second timer.

01:02:03.467 --> 01:02:05.367
[JOHN]: Where did they have a timer on it?

01:02:05.367 --> 01:02:06.067
[JOHN]: Well, because...

01:02:06.067 --> 01:02:07.387
[DEREK]: They were better than they thought they were.

01:02:08.107 --> 01:02:14.927
[DEREK]: They got Galactus to the portal in 20 seconds, and then they had 10 more seconds where he could climb back out of the portal.

01:02:15.627 --> 01:02:16.567
[DEREK]: Why did you put the timer on it?

01:02:16.767 --> 01:02:19.627
[JOHN]: Yeah, the timing is really crucial.

01:02:19.627 --> 01:02:24.487
[JOHN]: And ultimately, then Johnny has to come back.

01:02:24.487 --> 01:02:26.147
[JOHN]: He sort of makes that decision.

01:02:26.187 --> 01:02:28.227
[JOHN]: It's a really interesting choice for the character.

01:02:28.227 --> 01:02:32.527
[JOHN]: You know, his decision that he will sacrifice himself here.

01:02:32.527 --> 01:02:53.947
[JOHN]: And as Shalla-Bal sacrificed herself for her world, his view is that he will sacrifice himself to push and to not Galactusue the portal into the part of the universe, the galaxy that the portal is opening to.

01:02:53.947 --> 01:02:57.507
[JOHN]: Because I don't think there's any control over where it opens.

01:02:57.507 --> 01:03:00.607
[JOHN]: That's not what I'm kind of understanding.

01:03:00.607 --> 01:03:04.347
[JOHN]: All they say is, we'll put him to the furthest reaches of the universe.

01:03:04.347 --> 01:03:09.887
[JOHN]: So by the time he gets back, you know, we'll jump again or something like that or whatever.

01:03:12.967 --> 01:03:42.167
[JOHN]: And I like how this comes back to that conversation that he had with Shalla-Bal beforehand, where she recognizes this sacrifice that Johnny is about to do and so sacrifices herself instead to push her herald, her master, and her owner through the portal and into the void behind wherever that may be.

01:03:42.167 --> 01:03:42.887
[DEREK]: Yeah.

01:03:42.887 --> 01:03:43.587
[DEREK]: Yeah.

01:03:43.587 --> 01:03:44.247
[DEREK]: I think it's cool.

01:03:44.287 --> 01:03:44.527
[JOHN]: Yeah.

01:03:44.527 --> 01:03:47.667
[JOHN]: It's such a good payoff here.

01:03:47.667 --> 01:03:48.327
[DEREK]: Yeah.

01:03:48.327 --> 01:03:49.807
[DEREK]: This is kind of the Silver Surfer.

01:03:49.807 --> 01:03:54.547
[DEREK]: The Silver Surfer was trapped on earth for a while and became a bit of a hero.

01:03:54.547 --> 01:04:02.767
[DEREK]: But when the Silver Surfer is the herald of Galactus, that is all he's supposed to do in the comic books is herald the death of a planet.

01:04:02.767 --> 01:04:09.107
[DEREK]: And there have been, there's just those moments over the course of his history where he chooses to go against Galactus.

01:04:09.107 --> 01:04:12.187
[DEREK]: Galactus usually punishes him for that for a while afterwards.

01:04:12.187 --> 01:04:19.607
[DEREK]: But that's a great moment where Shalla-Bal here makes the sacrifice against her master and will be punished for it, I'm sure.

01:04:19.607 --> 01:04:23.087
[DEREK]: But still the heralds of Galactus on the other end of it.

01:04:23.087 --> 01:04:25.447
[DEREK]: But she's the one that sacrifices herself saving Johnny.

01:04:26.407 --> 01:04:27.787
[DEREK]: Yeah, it's really, really cool.

01:04:27.787 --> 01:04:49.187
[JOHN]: Oh, and the other thing, I think, that kind of stood out here was where Galactus is pulling Reed Richards a bit like a bowl of spaghetti, just because we had in Multiverse of Madness were Reed Richards by The Scarlet, which is just converted into loads of string, like elastic string.

01:04:49.187 --> 01:04:50.107
[JOHN]: Yeah.

01:04:50.107 --> 01:04:56.467
[JOHN]: And here we have Galactus doing the same thing, where he's just stretching and stretching Reed Richards work.

01:04:56.467 --> 01:05:07.787
[DEREK]: Yeah, this is definitely a reference to Stretch Armstrong, the toy that came out in the early 90s or late 90s, maybe somewhere like that, where effectively you stretch it and stretch it and stretch it as far as it will go.

01:05:07.787 --> 01:05:16.227
[DEREK]: And you see Galactus getting a lot of pleasure from pulling and stretching Pedro Pascal's Reed Richards there as he's pulling him.

01:05:16.927 --> 01:05:21.467
[DEREK]: I must say, the person that was in the row beside us got a particular pleasure out of this scene.

01:05:21.567 --> 01:05:22.287
[DEREK]: I don't know why.

01:05:22.287 --> 01:05:23.907
[JOHN]: Yeah, very happy with this.

01:05:23.907 --> 01:05:28.227
[DEREK]: He laughed the whole way through this scene, as if it was the funniest thing they'd ever seen.

01:05:31.487 --> 01:05:39.947
[DEREK]: I will say, and I've said this to John as well, I will say they avoided using Reed Richards' stretchy powers probably as much as they could.

01:05:39.947 --> 01:05:41.367
[DEREK]: They used his brain a lot more.

01:05:41.367 --> 01:05:43.547
[DEREK]: They had a much more deep character in here.

01:05:44.107 --> 01:05:49.887
[DEREK]: I don't think they've been able to do stretchy powers very well on screen in a drama, let's say.

01:05:49.887 --> 01:05:52.427
[DEREK]: In comedy, it probably works quite well, but...

01:05:52.427 --> 01:05:57.847
[JOHN]: Yeah, because you'd be at Catapult and you'd fire a mole vehicle at him.

01:05:57.847 --> 01:06:03.027
[DEREK]: But it's such a silly power at times, seeing a human being's arms and legs stretch.

01:06:03.027 --> 01:06:05.747
[DEREK]: So it's probably quite difficult to make it serious.

01:06:05.747 --> 01:06:11.527
[DEREK]: For example, I think Medusa, who was in The Inhumans, has hair that stretches and can do lots of things.

01:06:11.587 --> 01:06:16.947
[DEREK]: And the way they got around that in The Inhumans was to shave her head, so they didn't have to use her power, I would expect.

01:06:16.947 --> 01:06:21.387
[DEREK]: You'd probably have something like, if you have to do this again, they'll put Mr.

01:06:21.387 --> 01:06:25.727
[DEREK]: Fantastic in deep freeze, so his arms and legs can't move and he just has to use his brain.

01:06:25.727 --> 01:06:29.847
[JOHN]: Liquid nitrogen, so that when he stretches, he just sort of disintegrates.

01:06:29.847 --> 01:06:30.487
[DEREK]: Something like that.

01:06:30.487 --> 01:06:31.647
[JOHN]: It's so brittle.

01:06:31.647 --> 01:06:32.847
[JOHN]: Yeah.

01:06:32.847 --> 01:06:34.727
[DEREK]: But it looked well.

01:06:34.727 --> 01:06:39.667
[DEREK]: I'm not saying the CGI was bad or anything like that, but they just don't want to use it very often, is what it felt like.

01:06:39.787 --> 01:06:40.027
[JOHN]: Yeah.

01:06:40.027 --> 01:06:48.707
[JOHN]: I mean, I think stretchy powers are that kind of on the crapper side of the superhero spectrum.

01:06:48.707 --> 01:06:49.867
[DEREK]: Yeah.

01:06:49.867 --> 01:06:56.487
[JOHN]: But one of the upper crapper ones, like I think I'm so accustomed to it.

01:06:56.487 --> 01:06:57.967
[JOHN]: I'm like, I can deal with it.

01:06:57.967 --> 01:06:58.107
[DEREK]: Yeah.

01:06:58.107 --> 01:07:00.467
[JOHN]: And I think again, Multiverse of Madness.

01:07:00.507 --> 01:07:00.587
[JOHN]: Ms.

01:07:00.587 --> 01:07:12.347
[JOHN]: Marvel, of course, so I can certainly buy into it more so than, say, Condiment Man from the DC Universe.

01:07:12.347 --> 01:07:14.207
[DEREK]: Bill Meeks would be very unhappy if he wrote that.

01:07:14.307 --> 01:07:15.167
[DEREK]: I know.

01:07:15.167 --> 01:07:16.847
[DEREK]: But the fight ends.

01:07:17.107 --> 01:07:20.747
[DEREK]: They have won, but they look like they've lost a member of the team.

01:07:20.747 --> 01:07:21.647
[DEREK]: Sue Storm is dead.

01:07:21.647 --> 01:07:25.327
[DEREK]: After all the power that she's used, she is effectively dead in the ground.

01:07:25.487 --> 01:07:27.187
[DEREK]: I'm pretty certain that she's dead.

01:07:27.187 --> 01:07:27.827
[JOHN]: Yes.

01:07:27.827 --> 01:07:29.707
[JOHN]: I took she was dead.

01:07:30.307 --> 01:07:31.227
[DEREK]: Yes, for sure.

01:07:31.227 --> 01:07:33.887
[DEREK]: We even see Reed checking the pulse as he gets there.

01:07:34.007 --> 01:07:38.507
[JOHN]: The breathing is doing the chest compressions, doing mouth-to-mouth.

01:07:38.507 --> 01:07:42.327
[JOHN]: I think definitely in the sense that she has passed here.

01:07:44.827 --> 01:07:54.847
[JOHN]: I think absolutely confirmed with Franklin imbuing animation life back into her and you see that in the eyes.

01:07:55.087 --> 01:07:55.307
[DEREK]: Exactly.

01:07:55.307 --> 01:07:58.127
[JOHN]: With the kind of spooky zombie eyes.

01:07:58.127 --> 01:07:58.407
[DEREK]: Yes.

01:07:58.407 --> 01:08:03.987
[DEREK]: So Franklin's power as shown here, how powerful he is, is able to bring someone back from the dead.

01:08:03.987 --> 01:08:05.387
[DEREK]: And that's his mom.

01:08:05.387 --> 01:08:06.447
[DEREK]: Pretty massive.

01:08:06.447 --> 01:08:09.587
[JOHN]: So we now have sweet zombie Sue.

01:08:09.587 --> 01:08:10.587
[DEREK]: Yeah, basically.

01:08:10.587 --> 01:08:11.047
[DEREK]: Yeah.

01:08:11.047 --> 01:08:12.307
[DEREK]: Yeah.

01:08:12.307 --> 01:08:13.807
[DEREK]: Ready for Marvel zombies.

01:08:13.807 --> 01:08:15.867
[JOHN]: Exactly.

01:08:15.867 --> 01:08:17.387
[JOHN]: I want to eat your brain.

01:08:17.387 --> 01:08:21.727
[JOHN]: And in fairness, she might be satiated quite well if Reed Richards brain is on the menu.

01:08:21.727 --> 01:08:21.987
[DEREK]: Yeah.

01:08:21.987 --> 01:08:23.787
[DEREK]: So the first of our Marvel zombies here.

01:08:24.127 --> 01:08:30.387
[DEREK]: And what do you think of this this moment where we have Franklin raising his mother from the debt?

01:08:30.387 --> 01:08:32.787
[JOHN]: I thought it was really surprising.

01:08:32.787 --> 01:08:39.187
[JOHN]: I was not expecting that, because to be honest, I'm not even sure I know much about Franklin.

01:08:39.187 --> 01:08:56.827
[JOHN]: As I say, Fantastic Four is a property I've probably preferred where they are some kind of vehicle in another bigger sort of storyline in where they're kind of more part of that ensemble piece of the larger storyline.

01:08:57.027 --> 01:09:08.027
[JOHN]: And I think it really works where they take elements of the characters for those important parts of the ensemble storyline and you're kind of going, oh, that's really meaningful.

01:09:08.027 --> 01:09:15.687
[JOHN]: And I've never really, I've just not followed them in their own comics.

01:09:15.987 --> 01:09:25.427
[JOHN]: So like, and whilst I'm into comics, it's like I've just, as I say, Fantastic Four has kind of just not excited me.

01:09:26.147 --> 01:09:33.907
[DEREK]: I definitely say the ones that I've read, the Jonathan Hickman arcs that he's wrote, written for Fantastic Four are absolutely excellent.

01:09:33.907 --> 01:09:38.007
[DEREK]: And their kickoff for Secret War and Battle World.

01:09:38.007 --> 01:09:38.847
[JOHN]: Yeah, I agree.

01:09:39.067 --> 01:09:41.267
[DEREK]: They have such a great storyline leading up to that.

01:09:41.747 --> 01:09:47.327
[DEREK]: They're the ones where we have the Earth from different universes clashing together.

01:09:47.327 --> 01:09:52.467
[DEREK]: That all started in the Fantastic Four, which is what I thought was going to happen, as we mentioned earlier on, what I thought was going to happen in this movie.

01:09:52.467 --> 01:10:09.727
[DEREK]: But to have just this moment in their own universe where they've just had their child and the child brings his mother back to life after the end of the Battle of Galactus, I think is showing you how powerful that character is and showing you how important these characters The Fantastic Four could be for the MCU in the future.

01:10:09.967 --> 01:10:13.367
[JOHN]: It would be like, don't annoy the baby.

01:10:13.367 --> 01:10:14.687
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

01:10:14.687 --> 01:10:16.667
[JOHN]: It's kind of a bit mid-witch cuckooey.

01:10:16.827 --> 01:10:19.027
[JOHN]: Where it's like, don't annoy the kid.

01:10:19.027 --> 01:10:19.867
[DEREK]: Well, yeah.

01:10:19.867 --> 01:10:25.187
[JOHN]: Because he might be able to do the opposite side of this power.

01:10:26.487 --> 01:10:27.507
[DEREK]: Yep, absolutely.

01:10:27.507 --> 01:10:32.987
[DEREK]: And that could absolutely be the story of Franklin Richards in the MCU.

01:10:32.987 --> 01:10:34.547
[DEREK]: He's a very powerful character.

01:10:34.547 --> 01:10:35.967
[DEREK]: Something about Franklin.

01:10:36.207 --> 01:10:36.867
[DEREK]: Yep, yep.

01:10:36.867 --> 01:10:39.287
[DEREK]: He becomes a very powerful character.

01:10:39.287 --> 01:10:42.847
[DEREK]: Is there anything else about the central part of the movie, John?

01:10:42.847 --> 01:10:48.447
[DEREK]: Anything else about the story of the movie to this point that you want to talk about before we move on to the post-credit scenes?

01:10:48.447 --> 01:10:51.087
[JOHN]: No, I think that's everything for me.

01:10:51.087 --> 01:10:54.427
[JOHN]: I think we should go on to our post-credits.

01:10:54.427 --> 01:10:54.947
[DEREK]: Yes.

01:10:54.947 --> 01:10:57.027
[DEREK]: Yeah, a couple of post-credit scenes.

01:10:57.027 --> 01:11:01.007
[DEREK]: The first one's probably the most important, one of the post-credit scenes.

01:11:01.007 --> 01:11:03.567
[DEREK]: Four years later, we have Sue with a slightly older...

01:11:03.627 --> 01:11:05.767
[JOHN]: Well, is four years later again.

01:11:05.767 --> 01:11:09.887
[DEREK]: Slightly older Franklin Richards, of course, four years later.

01:11:09.887 --> 01:11:16.407
[DEREK]: She's reading to him, Not the Origin of the Species, which seems to be a favorite book of his, so he's already got his dad's big brain.

01:11:16.487 --> 01:11:17.827
[JOHN]: Well, exactly.

01:11:17.827 --> 01:11:18.627
[DEREK]: I love the joke here.

01:11:18.627 --> 01:11:24.347
[DEREK]: He's reading The Hungry Caterpillar, which is a story about a caterpillar who can't satiate his hunger.

01:11:24.347 --> 01:11:27.287
[DEREK]: Obviously, he has some connection to Galactus there as well.

01:11:27.307 --> 01:11:29.047
[JOHN]: Hungry, Hungry Caterpillar.

01:11:29.047 --> 01:11:32.327
[DEREK]: Yeah, maybe that's just the story of Galactus, where they got it from.

01:11:32.327 --> 01:11:37.067
[JOHN]: Weirdly as well, from that post-credit, I just took the thing of, well, I've read both of those books.

01:11:37.067 --> 01:11:37.807
[DEREK]: Really?

01:11:37.807 --> 01:11:38.807
[DEREK]: Excellent, excellent.

01:11:38.807 --> 01:11:42.787
[JOHN]: The Origin of the Species and The Hungry Caterpillar.

01:11:42.787 --> 01:11:43.787
[JOHN]: And I like both of them.

01:11:43.787 --> 01:11:44.447
[JOHN]: Yeah.

01:11:44.447 --> 01:11:45.947
[JOHN]: So it's quite good.

01:11:45.947 --> 01:11:49.347
[DEREK]: But while she's away, somebody else turns up in the building.

01:11:49.967 --> 01:11:54.007
[JOHN]: It's not even turns up, like literally teleports.

01:11:54.007 --> 01:11:57.567
[JOHN]: So maybe has that power or knowledge as well.

01:11:57.567 --> 01:12:00.087
[DEREK]: Well, I have a little theory that will talk about one second.

01:12:00.087 --> 01:12:08.307
[DEREK]: And it's just important that the person that has appeared is a person that has a mask, has a big green cloak, and effectively could be Dr.

01:12:08.307 --> 01:12:09.607
[DEREK]: Doom.

01:12:09.607 --> 01:12:11.707
[JOHN]: I think most definitely is Dr.

01:12:11.707 --> 01:12:14.427
[JOHN]: Doom in at least 828 Earth.

01:12:14.647 --> 01:12:21.207
[JOHN]: And with his shiny mask, and shining away all shiny.

01:12:21.207 --> 01:12:25.407
[JOHN]: And I don't know why I have as much of a problem with that as I do.

01:12:25.407 --> 01:12:27.567
[JOHN]: But nonetheless, I can deal with it.

01:12:27.567 --> 01:12:30.107
[DEREK]: I didn't I didn't even cross my mind.

01:12:30.107 --> 01:12:36.127
[DEREK]: I probably just knew that the mask was there, but I didn't even look at it for more than a couple of seconds because I was going, oh, my God, this is how they've introduced him.

01:12:36.127 --> 01:12:38.787
[DEREK]: And this is the character I thought was going to be in the movie.

01:12:38.787 --> 01:12:41.767
[DEREK]: You know, get a full hour of Robert Downey Jr.

01:12:42.807 --> 01:12:43.967
[DEREK]: as Dr.

01:12:43.967 --> 01:12:48.007
[DEREK]: Doom, that we'd understand where he came from, why there's a Robert Downey Jr.

01:12:48.007 --> 01:12:52.107
[DEREK]: in this universe, whatever they were going to explain in the movie, but they didn't do it.

01:12:52.107 --> 01:12:59.587
[DEREK]: But it did lead me to another theory, John, because Franklin seems pretty happy to hang around with this stranger.

01:12:59.587 --> 01:13:02.747
[DEREK]: He's touching the face of behind the mask.

01:13:02.747 --> 01:13:03.467
[DEREK]: If you know Dr.

01:13:03.467 --> 01:13:06.307
[DEREK]: Doom in the comic books, the reason why he may be touching his face is because Dr.

01:13:06.307 --> 01:13:09.287
[DEREK]: Doom has a burnt face from an accident that happened.

01:13:09.387 --> 01:13:13.027
[DEREK]: So maybe he thinks Franklin can cure him of the burns.

01:13:13.027 --> 01:13:13.827
[DEREK]: Maybe that's it.

01:13:13.827 --> 01:13:14.767
[DEREK]: Possibly.

01:13:14.767 --> 01:13:34.007
[DEREK]: But because of the appearance of Natasha Lyonne in this movie, the presence of the character in there got me thinking of Poker Face, which does this thing where every single episode, a brilliant show if you haven't seen it, every single episode has the opening of it to a murder, which goes about 15 minutes of the show.

01:13:34.007 --> 01:13:43.327
[DEREK]: Then after that, they show the credits and then after that, they recap those 15 minutes and Tashley Owens' character of Charlie has been in the background of the episode the whole time.

01:13:43.327 --> 01:13:43.927
[DEREK]: Right?

01:13:43.927 --> 01:13:45.367
[DEREK]: The camera is just avoided seeing her.

01:13:45.367 --> 01:13:51.827
[DEREK]: You may have seen the hand or she may have given a tell to somebody and they've taken the tell in the first half of the first half of the movie.

01:13:51.827 --> 01:14:01.247
[DEREK]: So it got me thinking, was Doctor Doom in the Fantastic Four movie in the background the whole time?

01:14:01.247 --> 01:14:08.927
[DEREK]: Is Doctor Doom actually Doctor Franklin Storm, who is the father of Sue and Johnny?

01:14:08.927 --> 01:14:12.347
[DEREK]: And has he been in the background helping out the Fantastic Four throughout?

01:14:12.347 --> 01:14:16.347
[DEREK]: It's the Baxter building, would have been owned by Franklin Storm in the comic books.

01:14:16.347 --> 01:14:18.427
[DEREK]: So there is mention of the character.

01:14:18.627 --> 01:14:23.127
[DEREK]: We hear Sue talking about him, that their mother died and he was the one that raised them.

01:14:23.127 --> 01:14:27.227
[DEREK]: But I don't think we heard whether he's alive or dead in this universe.

01:14:27.227 --> 01:14:29.447
[DEREK]: We know their mother is, but I don't think she mentioned that.

01:14:30.327 --> 01:14:36.267
[DEREK]: So I wonder, will we see this from the other perspective when we get to Avengers Doomsday?

01:14:36.267 --> 01:14:41.607
[DEREK]: Will it be that, let's say Grandad Doom, Dr.

01:14:41.607 --> 01:14:43.747
[DEREK]: Franklin Storm, Robert Downey Jr.

01:14:43.747 --> 01:14:45.227
[DEREK]: has been there helping out everybody.

01:14:45.227 --> 01:14:52.187
[DEREK]: And when these universes collide and when the Fantastic Four meet up with the rest of the MCU, they're on the side of Doom because he's related to them.

01:14:52.187 --> 01:14:53.207
[DEREK]: Yeah, absolutely.

01:14:53.207 --> 01:14:54.547
[JOHN]: It could very well be.

01:14:54.767 --> 01:14:58.767
[JOHN]: And I mean, just the fact that the antagonist here wasn't Dr.

01:14:58.767 --> 01:15:03.147
[JOHN]: Doom in 828, I don't know.

01:15:03.147 --> 01:15:05.107
[JOHN]: The relationship could be very different.

01:15:05.107 --> 01:15:08.467
[DEREK]: Because in the other movies, at least, they usually push Dr.

01:15:08.467 --> 01:15:19.907
[DEREK]: Victor Von Doom aboard the spaceship and he gets his scarred face from the accident that gave them their powers, separating them and making him into the villain for them.

01:15:19.907 --> 01:15:20.987
[DEREK]: That's not the way they went in here.

01:15:20.987 --> 01:15:22.407
[DEREK]: They never mentioned that he was on board.

01:15:22.547 --> 01:15:24.387
[DEREK]: It was always the four of them that went out there.

01:15:24.387 --> 01:15:25.467
[DEREK]: Much more hopeful side.

01:15:25.467 --> 01:15:27.567
[DEREK]: We never got to see that dark side with Dr.

01:15:27.567 --> 01:15:28.027
[DEREK]: Doom.

01:15:28.027 --> 01:15:29.807
[DEREK]: And again, that's not always the story of the comics.

01:15:29.807 --> 01:15:33.947
[DEREK]: It's been retold multiple different times, of course, over the years as well.

01:15:33.947 --> 01:15:36.567
[DEREK]: So you can always do a different origin story.

01:15:36.567 --> 01:15:44.907
[DEREK]: But I do wonder if that's the way they're going to approach it, that the person in the green hood could have been someone connected to the family.

01:15:44.907 --> 01:15:45.307
[JOHN]: Yeah.

01:15:45.307 --> 01:15:47.527
[JOHN]: Oh, it sounds like a really interesting theory.

01:15:47.527 --> 01:15:49.227
[JOHN]: So let's see how it goes.

01:15:49.227 --> 01:15:50.187
[JOHN]: Yeah, definitely.

01:15:50.807 --> 01:15:57.267
[JOHN]: And I mean, from my side, I'm just really excited that Doctor Doom is coming into the MCU.

01:15:57.667 --> 01:15:59.487
[JOHN]: I really love the character.

01:16:00.947 --> 01:16:05.687
[JOHN]: And I think always makes other characters around him really interesting.

01:16:05.687 --> 01:16:09.747
[JOHN]: I've always liked the team up with Doctor Strange.

01:16:09.747 --> 01:16:13.087
[JOHN]: I'm really hoping there's a bit of that in future movies.

01:16:13.087 --> 01:16:14.227
[DEREK]: I think we'll get there.

01:16:14.227 --> 01:16:15.507
[JOHN]: So we'll see.

01:16:15.507 --> 01:16:24.947
[JOHN]: But yeah, really excited for this character coming into the MCU, always been the best part of the Fantastic Four for me is Doctor Doom.

01:16:25.447 --> 01:16:26.167
[DEREK]: Yep.

01:16:26.167 --> 01:16:26.607
[DEREK]: He's great.

01:16:26.607 --> 01:16:27.387
[DEREK]: He's a great character.

01:16:27.387 --> 01:16:29.127
[JOHN]: I always loved his stories.

01:16:29.127 --> 01:16:31.907
[JOHN]: And really complicated guy.

01:16:31.907 --> 01:16:32.447
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

01:16:32.447 --> 01:16:32.887
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

01:16:32.887 --> 01:16:36.607
[JOHN]: Which always makes for a good or bad or is he moment.

01:16:36.607 --> 01:16:39.187
[DEREK]: And but yeah, especially him being played by Robert Downey Jr.

01:16:39.187 --> 01:16:41.107
[DEREK]: We still don't understand how that's happening.

01:16:41.107 --> 01:16:44.247
[DEREK]: So I'm intrigued to see how they're going to do that in this universe.

01:16:44.247 --> 01:16:54.627
[JOHN]: So in addition to the old Vicky Doom, showing up, we have further post credit scene right at the end.

01:16:54.627 --> 01:17:10.107
[JOHN]: Initially kicked off with a quote from Jack Kirby, and just the reveal that the you put something of you in everything that you do, which is the kind of the thrust of the quote.

01:17:10.167 --> 01:17:21.427
[JOHN]: There is the real, yeah, there is the reveal that Earth 828 is based on the creator, Jack Kirby's birthday on August 28th, 1917.

01:17:21.427 --> 01:17:21.647
[DEREK]: Yeah.

01:17:21.647 --> 01:17:22.627
[JOHN]: That's really good.

01:17:22.627 --> 01:17:23.687
[DEREK]: Such a lovely touch.

01:17:23.687 --> 01:17:24.887
[JOHN]: It was a nice touch, wasn't it?

01:17:24.887 --> 01:17:25.667
[DEREK]: Yeah.

01:17:25.667 --> 01:17:29.147
[DEREK]: Because it does feel like something that's jumped out of a Jack Kirby comic.

01:17:29.147 --> 01:17:32.927
[DEREK]: So what a lovely way to honor him in this closing moment.

01:17:32.927 --> 01:17:36.887
[DEREK]: That was one of the first big comics that he worked together with Stan Leon back in 1961.

01:17:37.187 --> 01:17:41.847
[DEREK]: So giving him his due in the creation of these characters at the end of this movie was very cool.

01:17:41.847 --> 01:17:43.067
[JOHN]: Yeah, absolutely.

01:17:43.067 --> 01:17:49.327
[DEREK]: And then we got the final post credit scene, which was the animated show that we saw earlier out of the movie.

01:17:50.587 --> 01:17:53.967
[DEREK]: And all of the villains of the characters of the Fantastic Four.

01:17:53.967 --> 01:17:54.967
[DEREK]: Quite cool.

01:17:54.967 --> 01:17:58.567
[DEREK]: There's a couple of little nods to all of the other villains that have been in there.

01:17:58.567 --> 01:18:10.007
[DEREK]: We saw the original cover of Fantastic Four when they were doing that recap at the beginning of the movie, where the battle with Giganto is the first ever issue of Fantastic Four.

01:18:10.007 --> 01:18:13.087
[DEREK]: But we also have these scenes in the animated show.

01:18:13.087 --> 01:18:20.027
[DEREK]: You remember this, John, when we were kids, these used to be shown on TV, which are almost like slow animation.

01:18:20.027 --> 01:18:25.927
[DEREK]: It's like there's only 40 or 50 sheets of paper being used for a 30-minute episode of the show.

01:18:25.927 --> 01:18:28.767
[DEREK]: But Herbie was in there when we were kids as well.

01:18:28.767 --> 01:18:33.607
[DEREK]: And here they're made to look like the cast of the Fantastic Four First Steps as well.

01:18:33.807 --> 01:18:36.827
[DEREK]: So Reed Richards looks exactly like Pedro Pascal, for example.

01:18:36.827 --> 01:18:39.027
[DEREK]: So I thought it was a really cool little touch.

01:18:39.027 --> 01:18:47.047
[DEREK]: And just the tiny little reveal at the end, you see it's actually Herbie watching them on the TV because he's the one that turns off the TV when he's finished watching the episode.

01:18:47.047 --> 01:18:49.787
[DEREK]: But a nice little gag in the end.

01:18:49.787 --> 01:18:52.287
[JOHN]: Absolutely, yeah, really good.

01:18:52.287 --> 01:18:57.847
[JOHN]: I'm glad that it closed out with old Herbie, who was good throughout this movie.

01:18:57.847 --> 01:18:59.327
[DEREK]: It's good fun, it's good fun.

01:18:59.327 --> 01:19:02.807
[DEREK]: Well, that's it for our Fantastic Four movie review.

01:19:03.107 --> 01:19:04.967
[DEREK]: So, just one last thing to do then, John.

01:19:04.967 --> 01:19:07.647
[DEREK]: Do you defend Fantastic Four First Steps?

01:19:07.647 --> 01:19:11.327
[JOHN]: Yes, I do defend Fantastic Four First Steps.

01:19:11.327 --> 01:19:15.327
[JOHN]: I'll give it four Hungry Caterpillars out of five.

01:19:15.327 --> 01:19:16.787
[JOHN]: I just really like the premise here.

01:19:16.787 --> 01:19:22.187
[JOHN]: I like the retro future, kind of aesthetic to it.

01:19:22.187 --> 01:19:38.147
[JOHN]: I like that in the end, it was very much a self-contained story in Earth 828, and I loved the portrayal of all these characters, including the Silver Surfer and Galactus.

01:19:38.147 --> 01:19:41.807
[JOHN]: The post credits are really good here.

01:19:41.807 --> 01:19:49.147
[JOHN]: I think it was actually shorter and less complicated than I thought it was going to be in the movie.

01:19:49.147 --> 01:19:56.747
[JOHN]: So, you know, I think, yeah, it was kind of that family unit of the Fantastic Four that they focused on.

01:19:56.847 --> 01:19:58.827
[JOHN]: I think that really, really helped.

01:19:58.827 --> 01:20:08.927
[JOHN]: I love the portrayal of all these characters as well by Pedro Pascal, by Vanessa Kirby, Evan Moss-Bachrach and Joseph Quinn.

01:20:08.927 --> 01:20:10.827
[JOHN]: They're all really, really good.

01:20:10.827 --> 01:20:11.587
[DEREK]: So good.

01:20:11.587 --> 01:20:16.987
[JOHN]: So yeah, for me, I'd give this four Hungry Caterpillars out of five.

01:20:16.987 --> 01:20:17.707
[DEREK]: Fantastic.

01:20:17.707 --> 01:20:18.507
[DEREK]: Fantastic.

01:20:18.507 --> 01:20:21.967
[JOHN]: In fact, Derek, do you defend the Fantastic Four?

01:20:21.967 --> 01:20:23.167
[DEREK]: Yeah, I really enjoyed this.

01:20:24.267 --> 01:20:32.767
[DEREK]: As we said, we came into this probably a bit more skeptical because having watched the last Fantastic Four movie and going, oh, no, pleased.

01:20:32.767 --> 01:20:35.627
[DEREK]: We were very excited about that going into the cinema.

01:20:35.627 --> 01:20:37.227
[DEREK]: Thought it was going to be fantastic.

01:20:37.227 --> 01:20:42.287
[DEREK]: Ended up being really one of the worst of the non-MCU films that we'd seen at the time.

01:20:42.287 --> 01:20:44.167
[DEREK]: We've seen far worse since then, thankfully.

01:20:44.167 --> 01:20:46.067
[DEREK]: So it's not the worst movie of all time.

01:20:46.247 --> 01:20:48.747
[DEREK]: It's not the worst Marvel movie of all time.

01:20:48.747 --> 01:20:50.967
[DEREK]: This one though, really took me by surprise.

01:20:50.967 --> 01:20:52.707
[DEREK]: I had expectations going into it.

01:20:53.107 --> 01:21:04.787
[DEREK]: I thought we were going to be treading a little bit of water in the 60s set world and then move into the MCU and then see a fish out of water story where we have the four members of the Fantastic Four in the MCU proper.

01:21:04.787 --> 01:21:05.587
[DEREK]: But they stayed there.

01:21:05.587 --> 01:21:13.307
[DEREK]: They stayed in the 60s set world, which is a real surprise and told a real Fantastic Four story in its own isolation.

01:21:13.307 --> 01:21:24.347
[DEREK]: That gave them the opportunity to spend time with the characters and their relationships and really have that family feeling of these, I guess, now five characters that make up this group with Franklin Richards as well.

01:21:24.347 --> 01:21:26.127
[DEREK]: So that's really cool.

01:21:26.127 --> 01:21:35.627
[DEREK]: That's a really great way to do it and a really great way to introduce these characters now that we've moved into a brand new phase of Marvel as we get ready for two new Avengers movies.

01:21:35.627 --> 01:21:41.887
[DEREK]: Now we have time, we've spent time with them, and I would be more than happy to have another Fantastic Four movie coming next year or the year after.

01:21:41.887 --> 01:21:42.587
[DEREK]: That would be cool.

01:21:42.587 --> 01:21:43.487
[JOHN]: Yeah, definitely.

01:21:44.247 --> 01:21:46.327
[DEREK]: Definitely defend this one.

01:21:46.327 --> 01:21:47.387
[JOHN]: Excellent stuff.

01:21:47.387 --> 01:21:49.427
[JOHN]: Defense all around fellow defenders.

01:21:49.427 --> 01:22:01.207
[JOHN]: So yeah, if you are unsure, if you've been totally spoiled by our conversation, then absolutely make sure you get yourselves to a cinema to watch the Fantastic Four.

01:22:01.207 --> 01:22:02.367
[DEREK]: Because definitely, yeah.

01:22:02.367 --> 01:22:05.207
[DEREK]: And definitely the visuals are well worth seeing as well.

01:22:05.427 --> 01:22:06.547
[DEREK]: It's absolutely cool.

01:22:06.547 --> 01:22:10.327
[DEREK]: I will say the third member of our team, Chris, will probably enjoy this even more than we did.

01:22:11.887 --> 01:22:13.727
[DEREK]: I think that's just that story of fatherhood that's in there.

01:22:13.727 --> 01:22:18.147
[DEREK]: And Chris obviously being a new father with our awesome Miles.

01:22:18.147 --> 01:22:18.947
[DEREK]: I think he'll love this.

01:22:18.947 --> 01:22:26.867
[DEREK]: I think he'll love the idea of Reed Richards trying to go through that big change in his life and the rest of the family go through it as well.

01:22:26.867 --> 01:22:28.227
[DEREK]: I think that's something that will really hit with Chris.

01:22:28.227 --> 01:22:31.687
[DEREK]: So I can't wait for him to see it in the next couple of weeks when he gets out.

01:22:31.687 --> 01:22:32.427
[JOHN]: Good stuff.

01:22:32.427 --> 01:22:35.107
[JOHN]: Well, hopefully we'll hear Chris' thoughts soon enough.

01:22:35.107 --> 01:22:39.167
[JOHN]: But with that, let us get onto our feedback section.

01:22:39.307 --> 01:22:42.067
[JOHN]: And here are fellow Defenders' thoughts.

01:22:42.067 --> 01:22:47.787
[JOHN]: First up, we have some feedback through from Coffee and Vodka.

01:22:47.787 --> 01:22:51.947
[JOHN]: Coffee and Vodka says, Greetings, fellow Fantastic Defenders.

01:22:51.947 --> 01:22:57.847
[JOHN]: We finally got a real Fantastic Four movie, and dare I say it, a return to brand excellence.

01:22:57.847 --> 01:23:02.427
[JOHN]: The best thing about it, for me, was the John Lennon Imagine vibe.

01:23:02.427 --> 01:23:07.247
[JOHN]: Everything about the movie evoked it except for the possessions and religion part.

01:23:07.687 --> 01:23:15.227
[JOHN]: Then, they refused to give up their only son to save humanity, and we almost had our former beetle bingo.

01:23:15.227 --> 01:23:23.547
[JOHN]: With few action beats preferring to rely on character development and the natural progression of events, it seemed more organic than directed.

01:23:23.547 --> 01:23:32.207
[JOHN]: In addition to being progressively uncompromising, it joined the ranks of the MCU's best Iron Man, The Winter Soldier and Ragnarok.

01:23:32.207 --> 01:23:39.067
[JOHN]: They respectively were action, political thriller and comedy movies that just happened to be about superheroes.

01:23:39.067 --> 01:23:47.967
[JOHN]: Being science fiction first and Marvel's first family second, it looks like we've got our fourth Mount Rushmore MCU face.

01:23:47.967 --> 01:23:52.347
[JOHN]: Finally, this isn't the first time the team has been accurately put from page to screen.

01:23:52.347 --> 01:23:59.387
[JOHN]: It is, however, the first time it's been backed with the budget and comic accurate Galactus it deserved.

01:23:59.387 --> 01:24:03.207
[JOHN]: First Superman, now this and next year the best Daredevil ever.

01:24:03.627 --> 01:24:06.427
[JOHN]: A good time for a geek to be alive.

01:24:06.427 --> 01:24:13.987
[JOHN]: Five Bring My Own, New York Cities, Bug Crushed Orphans and Doomed Endings out of Five.

01:24:13.987 --> 01:24:17.267
[JOHN]: Peace and take care, Coffee and Vodka.

01:24:17.267 --> 01:24:18.287
[DEREK]: Excellent Coffee and Vodka.

01:24:18.287 --> 01:24:25.507
[DEREK]: We're guessing the BMO NYC is Bring My Own NYC because that's what Reed was going to do.

01:24:25.507 --> 01:24:29.627
[DEREK]: He was going to bring the planet Earth wherever he wanted it to go.

01:24:29.627 --> 01:24:30.767
[DEREK]: I guess that's what it is.

01:24:30.767 --> 01:24:31.687
[DEREK]: Is that right, Coffee and Vodka?

01:24:33.367 --> 01:24:35.847
[JOHN]: Let's hope, because that's what I've said now.

01:24:35.847 --> 01:24:36.367
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

01:24:36.367 --> 01:24:38.907
[JOHN]: Sorry Coffee and Vodka if it's not.

01:24:38.907 --> 01:24:43.167
[JOHN]: That's interesting around the Mount Rushmore MCU face.

01:24:43.167 --> 01:24:47.167
[JOHN]: I think I probably wouldn't put Ragnarok up there.

01:24:48.007 --> 01:24:52.627
[JOHN]: Otherwise, I'm with you on the other ones.

01:24:52.627 --> 01:25:00.547
[DEREK]: I probably wouldn't put Iron Man up on my number one, but I would put The Winter Soldier up there and definitely an Avengers movie's got to go up there somewhere.

01:25:00.807 --> 01:25:07.067
[DEREK]: But that's the great thing about the Marvel Cinematic Universe, 37 movies and lots of favorites to choose from as well.

01:25:07.067 --> 01:25:08.387
[DEREK]: This is definitely up there.

01:25:08.767 --> 01:25:14.767
[DEREK]: This is a real surprise of a movie for me that's come into definitely top 20 of the MCU.

01:25:14.767 --> 01:25:16.047
[DEREK]: So yeah, really cool.

01:25:16.047 --> 01:25:18.187
[DEREK]: I'm looking forward to seeing it again.

01:25:18.187 --> 01:25:19.267
[JOHN]: Yeah, absolutely.

01:25:19.267 --> 01:25:21.267
[JOHN]: Thank you so much, Coffee and Vodka.

01:25:21.267 --> 01:25:21.647
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

01:25:21.647 --> 01:25:22.547
[DEREK]: Thanks, Coffee and Vodka.

01:25:22.547 --> 01:25:24.147
[DEREK]: Some quick thoughts over on Facebook.

01:25:24.147 --> 01:25:29.547
[DEREK]: The movie only came out yesterday, so we're expecting to get a bit more thoughts from our wonderful fellow defenders in the next couple of weeks.

01:25:29.827 --> 01:25:37.187
[DEREK]: We got some thoughts in from Mathematician who says, Loved us, but, and this is the first for me, the MCU have been outdone by DC this summer.

01:25:37.187 --> 01:25:38.487
[DEREK]: I preferred Superman.

01:25:38.487 --> 01:25:48.467
[DEREK]: I think my issues were that I only have only ever enjoyed Pedro Pascal in a mask and I didn't really enjoy Kirby as the White Widow from the Mission Impossible movies and haven't seen her in anything else.

01:25:48.467 --> 01:25:59.867
[DEREK]: This worried me a little before watching a new experience with me for an MCU movie, as I feared the two leads really didn't impress me that much, but they weren't terrible and it was more than made up for by the rest of the cast.

01:25:59.867 --> 01:26:09.187
[DEREK]: The banter between Johnny and Ben was great, Joseph Quinn and Evan Moss-Bachrach, I recognized his face so checked it out, the brilliant micro from The Punisher, where both bossed in their roles.

01:26:09.187 --> 01:26:18.967
[DEREK]: The premise of the bad guy wanted to eat a baby was a bit risky for an MCU movie and really small children might not like it, but it made the team's stakes a bit more personal than just saving the world.

01:26:18.967 --> 01:26:31.407
[DEREK]: Not sure why they set up all the portal traps in places like Times Square and the Eiffel Tower, etc., obviously just visuals for the movie, but a lot of damage was done in Manhattan when they set the bait right in the middle of the busiest part of 10.

01:26:31.407 --> 01:26:37.627
[DEREK]: The action was great, the special effects for the thing in Human Torch were spot on and the Silver Surfer looked amazing.

01:26:37.627 --> 01:26:43.007
[DEREK]: Proper mid-credit scene that got your rubbing hands together the way mid-credit scenes used to in the MCU.

01:26:43.007 --> 01:26:52.507
[DEREK]: I enjoyed Herbie in a similar way that I enjoyed Crypto from Superman, and I thought the depiction of Galactus as a menacing giant rather than a cosmic cloud was an enormous improvement on the 2000s movies.

01:26:52.887 --> 01:26:55.427
[DEREK]: Although he didn't appear large enough to consume planets.

01:26:55.427 --> 01:27:01.247
[DEREK]: Really good movie, but like Herbie's cooking, just needed a little bit more zip to make a great Marvel effort.

01:27:01.247 --> 01:27:07.787
[DEREK]: A fantastic 4 out of 5 for me will be interest to see how the rewatchability holds up.

01:27:07.787 --> 01:27:09.187
[DEREK]: Great stuff, mathematician.

01:27:09.187 --> 01:27:11.787
[JOHN]: Yeah, thank you so much, mathematician.

01:27:11.787 --> 01:27:15.747
[JOHN]: I think in terms of baby eating steaks, I think...

01:27:15.747 --> 01:27:18.367
[DEREK]: No, don't put those two words together, Tom.

01:27:18.407 --> 01:27:19.547
[JOHN]: No, exactly.

01:27:21.007 --> 01:27:31.527
[JOHN]: I think Austin Powers had it there with the old fat bee stard and I think he wanted to eat your baby.

01:27:31.527 --> 01:27:39.387
[JOHN]: So I think we have had Hollywood movies wanting to consume babies before.

01:27:39.387 --> 01:27:43.427
[JOHN]: So I think there is precedent, is all I would say on that one.

01:27:43.567 --> 01:27:50.147
[DEREK]: I will actually say one thing that I thought after watching Fantastic Four, and I really did enjoy it and we've gone through all of that in our review.

01:27:50.147 --> 01:27:56.267
[DEREK]: I would say it is aimed at the more younger crowd of the Marvel movies.

01:27:56.267 --> 01:28:04.547
[DEREK]: We've seen things like Daredevil this year, which is in the MCU now and it's clearly aimed at people over 18.

01:28:04.547 --> 01:28:11.487
[DEREK]: So having a movie that's aimed at the more general audience where parents can bring their kids along is very important for Marvel to do, and they do need to do that.

01:28:11.487 --> 01:28:13.647
[DEREK]: They can't all be aimed at everybody in their 40s.

01:28:13.867 --> 01:28:15.647
[DEREK]: It has to be aimed at a much broader audience.

01:28:15.727 --> 01:28:22.667
[DEREK]: So I'm glad Fantastic Four feels like it could be something that people could bring their nephews, nieces and kids along to.

01:28:22.827 --> 01:28:31.647
[JOHN]: I think as well, I think mathematician, I think you kind of write around the leads in terms of Sue and Reed.

01:28:31.647 --> 01:28:37.527
[JOHN]: But what I mean by that is because I think we were discussing it and it felt like an ensemble piece.

01:28:37.527 --> 01:28:41.807
[JOHN]: Which is strange because Pedro Pascal huge at the moment.

01:28:41.807 --> 01:28:50.647
[JOHN]: But I think just the Fantastic Four by its very nature generally leads to that kind of more ensemble feel.

01:28:50.647 --> 01:28:54.987
[JOHN]: I think that's always good because sometimes you either just lose one of the characters.

01:28:54.987 --> 01:29:02.427
[JOHN]: I do think that in some of the other movies, Ben Grimm, just because he's kind of the hardest one I feel to relate to.

01:29:02.427 --> 01:29:03.467
[DEREK]: It's because he's made of rock.

01:29:03.467 --> 01:29:10.827
[JOHN]: Well, it's rock, but it's kind of in a sense what Fantastic Four stick was trying to do with the body horror.

01:29:10.827 --> 01:29:12.727
[JOHN]: That sort of nightmare for him.

01:29:15.367 --> 01:29:18.287
[JOHN]: It's a little tough sometimes.

01:29:18.687 --> 01:29:21.587
[JOHN]: It's a bit cold, because he is rock.

01:29:22.307 --> 01:29:28.667
[JOHN]: It's not huggable, but it's not got the zip of Johnny and so on.

01:29:30.407 --> 01:29:35.347
[JOHN]: I think it was good that they gave each their own kind of time here.

01:29:35.347 --> 01:29:36.807
[JOHN]: I think that was important.

01:29:37.307 --> 01:29:41.187
[JOHN]: I think that might be why the leads possibly didn't impress.

01:29:41.347 --> 01:29:46.567
[JOHN]: I mean, I'm not saying that is exactly the reason, but I do think it was more ensemble.

01:29:46.567 --> 01:29:52.327
[JOHN]: I do think as well with Galactus, yeah, much, much improved.

01:29:52.327 --> 01:29:56.987
[JOHN]: And I think it was more his ship that seemed to devour the planet.

01:29:56.987 --> 01:30:01.647
[JOHN]: It almost made the rock all molten, that that's then how he fed from it.

01:30:01.647 --> 01:30:01.947
[DEREK]: Exactly.

01:30:01.947 --> 01:30:04.027
[JOHN]: Like an intravenous drip of molten lava.

01:30:04.027 --> 01:30:05.827
[DEREK]: He kind of drinks it, yeah, after it.

01:30:05.827 --> 01:30:07.027
[DEREK]: Exactly, exactly.

01:30:07.027 --> 01:30:08.747
[JOHN]: Which was kind of a nice touch, I thought.

01:30:08.747 --> 01:30:09.267
[DEREK]: Yeah, yeah.

01:30:09.567 --> 01:30:13.967
[DEREK]: I was kind of surprised that he was walking on the planet Earth, but that's exactly like the comics.

01:30:13.967 --> 01:30:21.147
[DEREK]: It seems like, you know, you could see him from this massive entity outside in space, and then he's able to walk down the streets of New York.

01:30:22.227 --> 01:30:23.387
[DEREK]: It seemed a bit odd.

01:30:24.007 --> 01:30:25.387
[JOHN]: But, yeah, tricks and cameras.

01:30:25.387 --> 01:30:26.867
[DEREK]: Exactly, exactly.

01:30:26.867 --> 01:30:27.687
[JOHN]: Angles.

01:30:27.687 --> 01:30:28.187
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

01:30:28.187 --> 01:30:28.707
[DEREK]: Great stuff.

01:30:28.707 --> 01:30:29.507
[DEREK]: Thanks, mathematician.

01:30:29.507 --> 01:30:30.927
[JOHN]: Yes, thanks, mathematician.

01:30:30.927 --> 01:30:33.727
[DEREK]: Ben Rush says, honestly, I think it was better than Superman.

01:30:33.727 --> 01:30:35.467
[DEREK]: And I am shocked to say that.

01:30:35.847 --> 01:30:37.647
[DEREK]: Ben Rush, a confirmed Superman fan.

01:30:37.767 --> 01:30:39.347
[DEREK]: So that's interesting.

01:30:39.347 --> 01:30:43.207
[DEREK]: I'm excited to see Superman myself when we eventually get the chance to get out to the cinema.

01:30:43.207 --> 01:30:46.067
[DEREK]: We're only just back from holidays, so we couldn't fit both in this week.

01:30:46.067 --> 01:30:49.687
[DEREK]: But I'm intrigued to see what Superman's like.

01:30:49.687 --> 01:30:50.967
[DEREK]: I've heard great things as well.

01:30:51.387 --> 01:30:51.727
[JOHN]: Yes.

01:30:52.007 --> 01:30:52.507
[DEREK]: Yeah.

01:30:52.507 --> 01:30:59.527
[DEREK]: And finally, Sandy Resendez says, I loved it, maybe because I'm a mama bear, but Vanessa Kirby was awesome in this role.

01:30:59.527 --> 01:31:02.087
[DEREK]: I loved how this was in its own universe.

01:31:02.087 --> 01:31:04.607
[DEREK]: So it was just something a bit different from the MCU.

01:31:04.607 --> 01:31:05.667
[JOHN]: Yeah, agreed, Sandy.

01:31:06.327 --> 01:31:12.207
[JOHN]: And you're right, Vanessa Kirby, really good in the role of Sue Storm.

01:31:12.207 --> 01:31:13.287
[DEREK]: Real MVP, yeah.

01:31:13.287 --> 01:31:19.267
[JOHN]: And yeah, I'm totally with you around its own universe.

01:31:19.267 --> 01:31:27.427
[JOHN]: I think actually it really benefited from keeping this short, sharp and sweet and separate, I think.

01:31:27.487 --> 01:31:34.787
[JOHN]: Certainly at this moment, because things are going to get an awful lot joined up anyway, very soon and very quickly.

01:31:34.787 --> 01:31:37.607
[JOHN]: So yeah, really glad you enjoyed it, Sandy.

01:31:37.607 --> 01:31:38.167
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

01:31:38.167 --> 01:31:38.547
[DEREK]: Absolutely.

01:31:38.547 --> 01:31:39.747
[DEREK]: Thanks so much for your thoughts.

01:31:39.747 --> 01:31:41.947
[DEREK]: We'd love to hear from you if you've just seen the movie.

01:31:41.947 --> 01:31:47.627
[DEREK]: You can email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with your thoughts, or go over to our Facebook group at facebook.com/group/tvpodcastindustries.

01:31:50.347 --> 01:31:53.287
[DEREK]: Leave your thoughts on the spoiler post up there and we'll have a chat about it.

01:31:53.287 --> 01:31:54.107
[DEREK]: Great stuff.

01:31:54.107 --> 01:31:56.467
[DEREK]: That's it for Marvel Cinema for 2025.

01:31:57.247 --> 01:32:03.227
[DEREK]: We've got the next MCU movie coming up next year is Spider-Man Brand New Day, which coming out in July 31st next year.

01:32:03.227 --> 01:32:09.047
[DEREK]: Then we move on to Avengers Doomsday, which has been pushed back now to December 18th next year.

01:32:09.747 --> 01:32:12.947
[DEREK]: Really intrigued to see how those two movies play out actually.

01:32:12.947 --> 01:32:17.687
[DEREK]: Spider-Man Brand New Day, they just recently confirmed that we've got the Punisher showing up in there.

01:32:17.687 --> 01:32:22.007
[DEREK]: Got the team up of Peter Parker and Frank Castle on screen.

01:32:22.087 --> 01:32:23.267
[DEREK]: That'll be kind of cool.

01:32:23.267 --> 01:32:26.847
[DEREK]: Really interesting, particularly because Frank Castle started out in Spider-Man comics.

01:32:26.847 --> 01:32:29.587
[DEREK]: So that was his first appearance, I think, was in Spider-Man.

01:32:29.587 --> 01:32:31.167
[DEREK]: So that's quite cool.

01:32:31.167 --> 01:32:33.847
[DEREK]: But we've got some TV coming from Marvel.

01:32:33.847 --> 01:32:37.927
[DEREK]: Later this year, we've got the animated show, Eyes of Wakanda, which is coming out in the 1st of August.

01:32:37.927 --> 01:32:40.787
[DEREK]: A couple of weeks time, just less than a week's time actually.

01:32:40.787 --> 01:32:44.727
[DEREK]: Then we've got the Wonder Man, which is coming out in December as well.

01:32:44.727 --> 01:32:46.127
[DEREK]: Really intrigued for that one.

01:32:46.127 --> 01:32:48.107
[DEREK]: Seeing Trevor Slattery back in this universe as well.

01:32:48.687 --> 01:32:49.267
[JOHN]: That'll be good.

01:32:49.867 --> 01:32:52.947
[JOHN]: Very intrigued by Wonder Man.

01:32:52.947 --> 01:32:58.087
[JOHN]: Looking forward to the animated Eyes of Wakanda for sure as well.

01:32:58.087 --> 01:33:08.567
[JOHN]: Yes, so lots of stuff being released in the immediate future, and we've still got as well our coverage of the Sandman to go through as well.

01:33:08.567 --> 01:33:16.127
[JOHN]: So yeah, lots of goodies coming up for our fellow Defenders and fellow Dreamers, of course as well.

01:33:16.547 --> 01:33:20.787
[DEREK]: Absolutely, so thanks so much for joining us for our chat, all about the Fantastic Four.

01:33:20.787 --> 01:33:22.847
[DEREK]: We hope you enjoyed that as much as we did.

01:33:22.847 --> 01:33:24.747
[DEREK]: We'll talk to you next time.

01:33:24.747 --> 01:33:27.747
[JOHN]: Yes, thanks so much fellow Defenders for joining us.

01:33:27.747 --> 01:33:38.227
[JOHN]: As always, until our next Movie Magic, as well as our next TV show, keep watching, keep listening, and of course, keep being fantastic.

01:33:38.227 --> 01:33:38.387
[DEREK]: Bye.