Daredevil Born Again Episode 1 Review

[00:00:00] This is Defenders on TV Podcast Industries. We're back with Daredevil Born Again Episode 1. Well, I'll admit it's not entirely unpleasant to see you again. It's been a long time. Life has happened. You have children? No. You? I don't know. I tried to mentor someone, but... Well, that's the closest I've come.

[00:00:28] Um, didn't she shoot you in the face? Yeah. Younger generation, what can we do?

[00:01:00] Welcome back, fellow Defenders, to TV Podcast Industries and to Daredevil Born Again. We're talking about Episode 1 of the brand new Disney Plus Daredevil season. I'm one of your hosts, Derek. Hello there, fellow Defenders. Yes, great to be back in the world of Hell's Kitchen and Matt Murdoch and Daredevil. Uh, I am, of course, one of your other hosts, John. This feels very special, doesn't it, John, to be back? It really does. Very nostalgic. Yeah.

[00:01:28] Uh, what, 10 years, uh, since we covered the Marvel Netflix Daredevil season one? Yeah, we started our first Daredevil podcast 10 years ago. I think it was February, uh, 10 years ago when we did our first Daredevil podcast. And yeah, it's been quite a long time since we covered Daredevil. Um, the last Daredevil episode that we covered was our 200th podcast episode. And just last week we did our 900th podcast episode. So we've done 700 podcasts since the last time we covered Daredevil.

[00:01:58] But, John, what am I saying? Yeah, that is amazing. And here we are back welcoming our fellow Defenders. We've got our Mississippi McDonald's theme tune back again for our Daredevil coverage. And also we've got our gavel ready for our case notes once again. Yeah. Oh, that feels good, doesn't it? Jeez, yes. And as always seems to be the case recently, unfortunately, we do have to say, uh, that Chris can't join us for these first couple of episodes of Daredevil. Sorry about that.

[00:02:24] Our foggy Nelson of the podcast can't be with us for unknown reasons. Well, well, the real reason is that he's covering Invincible with me and he only has time to do one podcast a week at the moment. So we've got two more episodes of Invincible to go. Once those are finished, we will be back here with us for our coverage of Daredevil. So he is our missing avocado at law. Which is not a good thing given the opening of this episode.

[00:02:47] But I think before we get into our spoiler-filled discussion, as we are back in the world of Daredevil, for any new Defenders who are just starting to follow our Defenders podcast on TV Podcast Industries, please head on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com, where you can subscribe to any devilish or heavenly podcast catcher of your choice.

[00:03:14] Absolutely. And we want to hear your thoughts about every single moment of Daredevil. We want you to email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com, or pop on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries, where there'll be a spoiler post up for each and every episode of the show. We are covering these a little bit in advance for the first two episodes, so we will be talking about your feedback as we get into next week, and as the episodes release weekly, we'll chat all about your thoughts on the Daredevil Born Again series.

[00:03:41] Yes, absolutely. Let us get into our spoiler-filled discussion with the episode details. Derek, take us away. Well, we don't have the episode names as they're coming out in advance. I presume this one's just called Born Again, do you think? Maybe, yeah. Killed Again. Or Fiscal Fix It, maybe? Maybe, or Foggy Fades Away. Foggy Fades Away. You know, like a fog as the sun rises. Wow, that's incredibly insightful of you, John. Disappoints.

[00:04:09] Yeah, I guess those 700 episodes of the podcast have enhanced your descriptive abilities. But no, we're going to... Okay, thank you. We're going to talk about the people that are behind the show. On this episode, the directors are Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead. We know them, of course, as directors on Moon Knight and Loki Season 2. They did four episodes, I think, of Loki Season 2 and two episodes of Moon Knight. Excellent episodes there as well.

[00:04:32] They are two of the showrunners for Daredevil Born Again, along with Dario Scardapain, who took over the lead role of showrunner after the previous attempt at getting Daredevil Born Again was kind of scrapped and retooled. He was the showrunner on The Punisher on Netflix, so he's coming with all that knowledge of the Netflix shows. And this whole episode was completely retooled after they had decided they were going to go a different direction from the original planned direction on Daredevil.

[00:04:58] So Justin Benson, Aaron Moorhead and Dario Scardapain coming on board to focus it more like a sequel to Daredevil series from Netflix. Yes, absolutely. You can really tell, can't you? You can, actually. It really feels of that same vein, to be honest. More so than, I think, any other Marvel TV so far. Yeah, absolutely. They've all had their style that's fit in with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the movies.

[00:05:25] This really feels like you just walked out of the set of Season 3 and went straight into Season 4. It's interesting. We were listening back to our 200th episode about Daredevil, the final episode of Daredevil, and we were speculating that there might be a fourth season of the show coming up. We were really excited about it and what could happen, and could characters like Bullseye come back and Wilson Bethel come back and play him? And here we are opening the episode with so much nostalgia and so many actors coming back and playing their previous roles.

[00:05:52] It's really interesting that this many years later, it's seven years, I think, since the last time we had a Daredevil episode. This many years later, this many people came back to reprise their roles for this opening of Daredevil. Yeah, absolutely. Cool. But John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for Daredevil Born Again Season 1, Episode 1? Sure. The avocados at law, Nelson, Murdoch and Paige head out for a celebratory night at Josie's bar as one of their police contacts, Cherry, is retiring.

[00:06:20] While there, Foggy gets a call from a client he has stashed at his apartment. He believes he's under attack. While Matt suits up as Daredevil to help the client, Bullseye, an enemy from their past, assassinates Foggy and begins to open fire on Josie's bar. Daredevil quickly returns to the bar to tackle Bullseye, while Karen is unable to save Foggy. As Daredevil hears Foggy's heart stop and in the pain of Matt's loss, he throws Bullseye from the top of the building attempting to kill him.

[00:06:50] One year later, Matt is now working in his new law firm with up-and-coming lawyer Kristen McDuffie. He gives a victim impact statement at the sentencing for Bullseye as Karen Page returns to town. With Bullseye convicted for 17 life sentences for murder, the system has worked, but Karen isn't willing to stay with Matt after her loss. Meanwhile, Wilson Fisk returns from his time in Tamaha, Oklahoma.

[00:07:17] While he has been away, his wife Vanessa has been running his nefarious businesses. All connections to the Kingpin have now been removed, allowing Wilson Fisk to run for mayor of New York City. When former police officer Cherry fails to find any dirt on Fisk, Matt sits down face-to-face with him. They warn each other of returning to their former lives of crime boss and vigilante. As Matt goes on a date with therapist Heather Glenn,

[00:07:46] he hears the news that Wilson Fisk has become mayor of New York, and a lone graffiti artist paints a mural of Kingpin on a wall in Hell's Kitchen. I was trying to interpret that painting that was on the wall. It looked like the Kingpin with the mask of Wilson Fisk was being held in his hand. It was just an interesting image to end the episode on. It was like as if someone knows that Wilson Fisk is hiding behind the mayor title, I guess. It's a great way to end the episode.

[00:08:15] Very interesting to look forward to. What's your thoughts on this first episode and the return to Daredevil born again, John? I just thought it was really good. I think it's really straight in, and I think that opening is an absolute sort of wham-bam. All senses are engaged here. All emotions are engaged. I think it's really good. I love how they focus, like they did in the original series, with Matt listening in on conversations

[00:08:43] and slightly blurring the image in some cases. So that's really good. I loved it when they did that the first time, when you see him listening in to the conversation that Foggy's having on the phone. You see the screen actually widens to full screen. So it's got those black bars on the top and bottom, and then it widens to the full screen when you see Matt focusing in. It's a really cool idea. It is. It's a great idea. So I loved all that.

[00:09:09] And I think it's the setup, but it's done, I think, really well in terms of reintroducing these characters, having a huge emotional gut wrench of an opener, and then setting up Matt Murdock in, I guess, the life that has developed since that tragic evening, and also with the return of Wilson Fisk.

[00:09:35] So, yeah, this is, I think, a really good episode one to get people who remember Marvel Netflix back on board, but equally, you know, to spin it about a bit and mix it up. Yeah, couldn't agree more with you. It does feel like we're back in adult Marvel again. Oh, definitely, yeah. Like we were watching the Netflix shows. Not that there's been anything not adult about shows like Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which was very violent, had that kind of touch to it as well,

[00:10:03] but this feels like we're back in that universe again that we were watching on Netflix. It just feels more mature. I mean, it really does, it feels mature adult, yes, but it does have that absolute grounding of street-level everyday superheroes that the original four from Marvel Netflix kind of had, you know? So that's what I think is different. You know, it's different when you've got sort of Westview

[00:10:31] totally encapsulated by hexes and a whole new imagery being projected by one person. It's just a different type of approach, but it's the grounded feel, I think. You know, the sights and sounds of New York City are really focused in here, and that's partly because you're dealing with a character who's blind, so that's sensory element, but it just really makes it very grounded. And also, of course,

[00:11:01] returning to film in New York as well. All practical sets and practical filming are mostly practical filming in New York, which is cool. Really, really good. Let's get into our way of covering the episode. We're going to talk about our top five case notes for the episode. So, with case note number one, ooh, bullseye hits his mark. I kind of mentioned this a little bit, but the opening of the episode, starting off the way it does, where the last season of Daredevil finished off with them writing down

[00:11:30] that they were going to have their own practice, that Nelson, Murdoch, and Paige were going to have their own practice, and here we see our three major characters from Daredevil walking out of their practice to go out for a drink in Josie's bar. Just the nostalgia flooding back in. It's just lovely to see, you know. We haven't really had any further time with these three characters since the Netflix show's finished, so seeing all three of them together coming out of their practice, just seeing that it's a very successful practice, and them going back through Hell's Kitchen

[00:11:58] was a nice kickoff for the episode, even though it ends quite tragically. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, it really does tee up the emotional rollercoaster of this opening section of Daredevil. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's really good seeing that, you know, they've established their law practice. You know, you're hearing about Cherry's retirement from the police force, but you have this, you know, there's a little bit of snippets,

[00:12:26] which I wonder whether they'll come back into play through the season, where you have Karen talking about, you know, police are leaving the force quite a lot, like 30% of the police force have retired, left, moved on, whatever. And so, you know, there's a little hint there that something's not quite right. But equally, then, you are sort of engaged in all these different conversations in Josie's bar then.

[00:12:56] You know, I like the moment where you see Foggy speaking with Kristen McDuffie, who's in the DA's office. Yeah. And, you know, again, he's talking about Hogarth and... Hogarth Chow and Benowitz. Chow and Benowitz. And that law firm, you have him then talking about Nelson, Murdoch and Page just with the first letter of each, you know, NMP. And just having, you know, the fact that here,

[00:13:26] Foggy's probably about to get chewed up by Kirsten McDuffie. You know? Well, yeah. But he kind of feels like he's chatting her up. Yeah, exactly. You know, he feels like he's doing his thing. I like that. It was nice. Again, a nice little thing. And then you start to sort of have the concern from Matt as Foggy's had to take this call out, sighs, and they go to see what happens. But ultimately, the Benny, I think, is the person who calls and is feeling threatened. But ultimately,

[00:13:56] the person who we see skewer a fly off a light bulb with a paper clip is trying to find out where Foggy is. So he's specifically targeting Foggy. It's not, it seems to me, that, yeah, that's the feel of it. Yeah. Because then Benny says, you know, he's gone now. He was asking where you are. Yeah. Now that could also be the Karen and Matt as well. Because

[00:14:25] after Bullseye does take the shot that fatally injures Foggy, he does say, hi, Karen, and he raises his pistol to shoot her. But it is thwarted by the arrival of Daredevil just in time. Yeah. But he's, I think he's going to kill everybody in Josie's. It looks like he has, his plan is to take everybody out, but absolutely Foggy and Karen would be the first targets and then probably Matt if he was in the, if he was in the place. But yeah, the plan to use Benny

[00:14:53] to distract Daredevil from the place so that he can take out his closest contacts is definitely what he's going for. He's really brutal here and they're doing a nod back to Netflix Daredevil's one-shotters or one-ers, which used to be the five-minute no cuts or a scene that looked like it had no cuts and they try to do that here with, with Bullseye and Daredevil and their battle through Josie's. Well, yeah, that's it. I mean, it's a great fight actually

[00:15:23] between Bullseye and Daredevil. I love the fact that Bullseye seems to be creating a pin cushion out of Daredevil with all the knives that are sticking out of him and I mean, it's a really brutal fight. As I say, it's like corridor stirwell fight which is really kind of famous. Some of the CGI here is a little bit stilted as it kicks in, like certainly as Daredevil swings in. I think as it goes from the outside

[00:15:52] to the inside, yeah, it does feel a little bit more CGI'd than I would have expected at the initial part of the fight but as it goes on, I think it's just catching the glimpses of what Bullseye is doing throughout. Daredevil is trying to beat him back, trying to beat him down but Bullseye is taking every opportunity to kill anybody he can around him. He's using snooker balls from the table or pool balls from the table to take out people as he goes. He's using all of his knives as you say to throw them at Daredevil but also to kill other patrons

[00:16:20] of Josie's Bar that night, you know? Yeah, or still using knives. I mean, how one suit can hold that many sharp implements, I don't know but nonetheless, he has a ton of knives at his disposal. Did you see his, he has the kind of, I don't know what they're called, a bandana or whatever, it's the thing that wraps around the body that carries all the knives and it does get emptied as he goes up, as he makes his way to the stairs you see him reaching for, trying to find another knife

[00:16:49] and there's none left there and then he just kills a couple who are coming back home with their shopping on the way up the stairs. So he has no respect for human life at all. This Bullseye we know at the end of Daredevil Season 3 he had become that villainous character. He'd lost his partner, he'd turned on everybody around him and I thought he'd been arrested and put away actually at the end of Daredevil Season 3 but here he is back out so obviously some time has definitely passed. I think it's about three or four years

[00:17:19] since the end of that show and the start of this show and we have Bullseye here taking out his revenge on Matt and his family I guess. Well as the judge says he was without remorse and it was pretty brutal and uncompromising the attack on Josie's bar. I think what's great here then is that Foggy has been shot it's bleeding out Karen is trying to stem that blood flow and loss I think the ambulance

[00:17:49] has been called you can hear sort of sirens in the distance but ultimately at this time it comes too late. I love the fact that you have Daredevil and Bullseye on the roof still fighting and at that critical moment you hear Matt tuning in to effectively Foggy's heart stopping and you have that sort of huge wrench of emotion both with Matt and with Karen and you have Daredevil

[00:18:19] effectively in a sense as Fisk would describe connecting with his dark side you know and effectively loses it and throws Bullseye off the roof and you know that also freaks Karen out she can see like she hears the flood behind her and is like I don't know whether she's saying oh no no no no because of Foggy I think it is part of that

[00:18:48] but then the realisation that Matt has actually also done the same thing so I think it merges into that where she's like realising he's effectively killed someone so she thinks so he thinks yeah I am still surprised he is alive after that but I like the wide angle shot of him being thrown off the top of Josie's bar yeah it was really it really was kind of impactful

[00:19:18] and just go from that straight to sort of a close up of him sort of on the street after that but ultimately this is a really sort of big meaty impact of an opener with the death of Foggy Nelson absolutely and effectively with ramifications for you know the remaining duo yeah exactly and you know it is confirmed later on in the episode that Matt was attempting to kill he did think he was going

[00:19:48] to kill Bullseye by throwing him off the building he wasn't pulling his punches he wanted him dead and I think you're right I think the reaction from Karen is oh god he's gone again that's happened before in their history together she's lost him completely so she doesn't want to put up with that she doesn't want to be able she doesn't want to have to go through that again especially after losing her best friend in Foggy as well exactly one final thing that happens in this opening section as well that we should mention you talked about Karen mentioning how many of the police force have retired

[00:20:17] or left the force over the last couple of years her numbers are always accurate she says and it's a huge percentage that are leaving Cherry is the one that's retiring from the force he says to his partner that the reason he's going is because the streets belong more to the vigilantes like Daredevil and White Tiger he mentions who we see on the TV screen there that the streets belong more to them than they belong to the police officers now and Cherry actually is on the top of the building when Daredevil throws the body of Bullseye off the roof and then

[00:20:46] as he removes his mask and reveals it's Murdoch underneath Cherry's there to see it so he now knows the secret of who Daredevil is as well yeah absolutely so let's get on to case note number two we're moving on a year later and Cherry's now working for Matt as well he's kind of his undercover private detective yeah absolutely I like this idea I like the investigator element in

[00:21:15] law firms I think it's a really cool job so I'm really pleased that Cherry is Matt's investigator I like the fact that whilst Murdoch and Page couldn't continue as a law firm I like seeing that there is Murdoch and McDuffie the new law firm here as well and you know again you sort of introduce this one year later you know here that there is the mayoral elections

[00:21:45] going on in New York City and I kind of like how in this little moment you have both Matt Murdoch and Wilson Fisk getting ready in their own ways that was also another feature of the Marvel Netflix shows but I like that the kind of common thing is them choosing their suit that they're going to wear here I thought that was a nice little touch here it was it took me a while and isn't it how the silly things that happen

[00:22:15] on TV shows that you're going what the hell is that okay there's a nice bit of camera work of coming showing Wilson Fisk with his breakfast which all I could recognize was the asparagus and I was thinking what is that white thing is it a big marshmallow is it a chicken breast I was like going what on earth is this and then realized it was an egg white omelet yeah

[00:22:45] I only knew that because there was an interview between Vincent D'Onofrio and Charlie Cox where Charlie is asked what is Fisk's favorite breakfast and he has no idea what it is and eventually D'Onofrio says to him it's an omelet and asparagus and I looked at that the second time we watched the episode I looked at it and went that's not an omelet it's not yellow so so so yes it's egg white omelet it's a bit of a weird thing anyway yes that's just the peculiar thing that I picked up on

[00:24:07] and person dealing with the death of his best friend he does it so well the speech itself where he's talking about you

[00:24:37] hard in here because also it's not just foggy exactly okay that's the focus here but a number of other people that are taken out at Josie's bar as well and I do think it's also sort of double whammy there at the same time of all that emotion coming back to Matt Murdoch and also having had difficult conversations with Karen because of this strange relationship since the death of Foggy that it's also the same day that Wilson Fisks

[00:25:06] announces his candidacy to Rome for Murdoch and so that's kind of it's just law firm in memory of Nelson and instead of

[00:25:36] sort of supporting one another that actually both Karen and Matt have drifted apart really with this tragedy and the relationship is really strained to the point where Karen has moved to San Francisco but not too much like New York yes like I actually would destroy more than Foggy you know it's basically ripped apart the trio

[00:26:06] obviously with Foggy dying but Matt and Karen's friendship is just really just hugely strained and you know I would have liked to have seen a bit of that in some way because it is quite sort of shocking to see them really not being able to almost talk to one another and especially if they were so close there was even a little joke in the opening scene about Karen saying let's get

[00:26:36] out of here and Matt going no that would cross our boundary as friends and you you're part of the friend code and as a lawyer I can't possibly break the friend code a joke again about their chemistry and their relationship I do feel now after hearing some of the behind the scenes stuff I Ben Moorhead and Scarlet Payne for this new retooling of the show and that we probably won't see Karen again

[00:27:06] in the series I think this is all as he's pulled himself together but you haven't contacted me so I think

[00:27:35] it's all based around their own consumption by the grief with the loss of Foggy Nelson I really like that do know why particularly because it always happens in comic book stories and in any kind of drama that you have that the male character who loses his best friend is the one that's suffering most and the female character is the one that always has to comfort the male character it's always the way it's happened in every single story we've ever seen Karen

[00:28:05] is just as close perhaps even closer to Foggy than Matt is Karen and you know so I really enjoyed this scene between the two of them it felt

[00:28:35] really wrenching as well exactly and to your point earlier on it is Karen going she assumes that he's going to fall back into that persona of daredevil she gives him back the horn of his helmet that he lost in Josie's bar and it is all about her saying to him I can't put up with you also going out and being this vigilante in the streets of New York that I could lose you as well so she's kind of cutting him off there and saying I'm not going to support you the way I

[00:29:22] of what's going on in the city where they're using the character of B.B. Ulrich doing the report on the street I

[00:29:52] kind of element which I really like and this is just kind of another way of in the era of people having their own YouTube channels that you know this is sort of the more modern or up to date investigative journalism that's being done by private individuals through YouTube channels rather than the big papers and you know those old mainstream newspapers

[00:30:21] and TV news and so she's kind of doing all this documentary style snippets that come in over the course of the episode focusing on the rising crime in New York or even about why or whether you should be voting for Fisk or not people say he's a great guy and he gets things done and there's another lady that then comes and says why is he even allowed to run it's been said that he battered someone's head

[00:30:51] in smashed someone's head in I was trying to work out whether they mean where he killed the ice cream vendor in front of Echo when she was a zeitgeist and also the other cool thing about Bibi Uric being here

[00:31:21] for those of you who watched the first three seasons of Daredevil on Disney Plus or originally on Netflix she's the daughter of Ben Uric a major character from the first season and a major character from comic books Ben Uric was very involved in Daredevil and Spider-Man back in the comic books so having his daughter here I believe it's his daughter maybe his niece we'll find out as the season goes on but having her here as an interstitial presence in New York City is really cool definitely

[00:31:52] shall we get on to our case note number three absolutely Vanessa is back John she certainly is Vanessa is I guess Madame Kingpin she has been looking after the crime and business interests of Wilson Fisk Kingpin whilst he's been away and indeed has made them bulletproof she has made them

[00:32:20] unsinkable in terms of moving things around so that all the other gangs are in line are reporting transferring money to the Kingpin operation but also getting their percentage back all tax exempt no tolls on this and she is kind of made this crime operation absolutely watertight

[00:32:50] for cleaning the dirty money and I really like this and it kind of comes in though where then you realize that there has been that time apart between Vanessa and Wilson Fisk through this and he shows up at this meeting where effectively then all the other gang leaders just leave and she makes that point and I really like that it says you know you still got the ability to make all the heads

[00:33:20] of the different crime organizations leave a room without saying a word it is a real cool moment where she points that out just to show the reputation the power of the kingpin that he holds over the others yeah it's kind of the two different management styles she points out he ruled by fear basically you do what I tell you to do or I kill you or I get you killed she's ruling by

[00:33:57] the red hook mafia from Brooklyn who are one of the crime family that's there it's just pointed out that they're a shorter term crime family and the red hook leader points out that they've been in the business much longer than the other guys getting his tracksuit so they must be the tracksuit mafia who were very central in Hawkeye the last time we saw Kingpin or one of times

[00:34:27] Adam who I think is the leader of that family you see the look on his face when Wilson Fisk comes in and I guess slightly defiant I would have said not totally but almost he wants to still be seated and not to move but is kind

[00:34:57] episode with the interaction with Vanessa you realize in that time being away Vanessa has played off piste but he knows about Adam yes there was a relationship between the two I didn't catch that very good job but she says don't kill him he won't he's shattered and broken

[00:35:27] but he knows two things and whilst he was recovering you know his undying love for her Vanessa and what we could do for this city as he you know is happy that all the operations are bulletproof because this allows him to run from there yeah but I do like that in his moment of triumph you know Vanessa is distant from him she's sipping champagne but effectively leaves and he is kind of torn between

[00:35:57] receiving the accolades from and because of his victory but also he's kind of trying to keep an eye on Vanessa he wants her to be a part of it but she at least in public she isn't but they do meet up on the rooftop after his victory in the elections yeah and I think that's partly to kind of create that distance from the two of them in case there is some of

[00:36:36] they lightly reference the events of Hawkeye that he was very heavily injured thought to be dead returned recovered while he was away in Tahoma and returns after being spurned I guess by Echo and here he is back with Vanessa so Vanessa's dealing with all the business dealings without knowing whether her husband was ever coming back so it's an interesting situation that you got with them here and also the final reference that they have there also references when in

[00:37:06] three of Dare Level that Kingpin was actually brought down by them finding the ties between his public persona and what he was keeping behind so this time he's prepared himself he's made sure he's completely separate from the gang work going on in New York so absolutely let's get on to a quick point John on to case note number four dating Matt because it's Matt he always has to have a love interest it has been a

[00:37:36] year I suppose since there was at least the test with him and Karen in Josie's that particular night but his new partner sets him up in such a great trauma and need some therapy advice and

[00:38:06] for a minute at the beginning of this when they sit down and they having coffee you find out that she's a therapist for a minute I confessional I guess effectively yeah so but

[00:38:36] it turns out it's actually a first date doesn't go very well I like specifically Heather calling out I don't date lawyers your errors are terrible and you between the two of them as they carry on the conversation which is

[00:39:06] quite nice I think yeah and you know well absolutely I wow you know and I like this and we see then

[00:39:35] and that they do go on a dinner date I like says we better dinner date than a coffee date and again I just love the fact that as they're walking down the this

[00:40:05] because this is where he learns that he's won the meral race and it's interesting I think that we get from Heather that she asks him you kind of fixated obsessed by him is there a history there you know and in the end it's kind of left there but

[00:40:37] she does say a phrase that a lot of people are saying at the moment about a wider election in the US she says well you know look if the people of New York voted for them they get what they deserved they they obviously want someone like Fisk in charge of New text out of a very political movie that

[00:41:06] it seemed like it was edited out of it and here we are two weeks later the first episode of Daredevil and they're going straight for the jugular there's no doubting who Fisk is in exactly what story they want to tell

[00:41:36] with Mare Fisk taking over the city absolutely so yeah I think with dating Matt and Heather I'd be interested to see how she gets embroiled in Matt's life exactly you know love life or otherwise because I suspect yeah it might be problematic down the line people close to Matt don't tend to do very well today

[00:42:05] foggy well that's it the avocados have become the guacamole smashed and battered but we are finishing with dating Matt we're going on to our last point we've talked about it

[00:42:35] we had we're we're we're going to go

[00:42:51] Yeah, no, exactly. It is like part of his Wilson Fisk's campaign team. I like to have Fisk can fix it. That's his slogan. I think in the past I could have done a little tune to go along with that. But unfortunately, due to sort of what the reputation of that person that was involved with that TV show back in the day, I can't really do it.

[00:43:19] That's a British one. That's that. It is. Jim will fix it. Yes, sorry. Because I was all I was thinking of was was what's the what's the cartoon character, John? Can we fix it? Yes, we can. Bob the Builder. Unfortunately, I had the Jim will fix it for you and you and you. Just with Fisk. Yes. Yes. But yeah, we see Sabrina Guevara as Fisk's campaign manager, kind of old school campaign manager, which we get here.

[00:43:48] And which we have kind of a new guy who's the that Fisk seems to have taken an interest in. So we'll see how that goes. He's there simply because he got 2000 signatures and was cheap. Yeah, you're kind of the young social media manager who's who's saying, but everybody's talking about him online. He's definitely going to be really, really. Yeah, he's definitely going to win this election. And as a British fair is kind of good. Look, it's not about social chat. It's about getting feet on the street and getting the votes in through policies like, yeah, yeah, old lady. That's not how it works.

[00:44:17] Well, that's it. There is that chat of, you know, you've brought in a number of unconventional sort of new people onto the campaign team. Exactly. This is one of them, but also you see Fisk's, I guess, new right hand man in book. Yes.

[00:44:36] I mean, ultimately you think he's just part of the campaign team, but I think when you see Fisk coming out of the TV studios and he's being, you know, book is passing all the people. And he's the first one to see Matt Murdock and knows who he is and what he's about effectively. Are we thinking book is the new Wesley? I think so. One of our favorite characters from the original Daredevil show.

[00:45:06] I am thinking that book is the new Wesley. Yeah. He just has that look about him as well. It looks quite like Wesley from the original series as well. We should mention that the young social media guy is played by James Gandolfini's son, Michael Gandolfini. So quite a famous connection, I suppose, to the mafia side of New York in the Sopranos family. So interesting that he's the actor playing this character here working alongside him. But you started to mention it there.

[00:45:32] The other big thing we haven't talked about is the big scene between Fisk and Murdock. Yeah, the face off in the diner. I love this. And I know it was in the trailer. I don't hold that against him. This is the big first episode. You want to know that the two of them sit down together, have this discussion. It has that feeling about it like Robert De Niro and Al Pacino sitting down in the heat and having that moment together in the diner. So it's really good. It's the lines being drawn, isn't it, really here. Yep.

[00:46:02] You know, it starts off jovial enough. But when I say jovial, it's kind of light but edgy and a few little barbs. It's like I do like that, you know, Fisk says, well, I tried to mentor someone. That someone being Echo. And you have Matt going, but didn't she shoot you in the face? Exactly.

[00:46:23] You know, it's a barbed response to his kind of conversation about whether, you know, does Matt have kids and so on. But also reveals that Matt's been keeping tabs on him because Matt wasn't anywhere near that situation. So he knows exactly what's gone on.

[00:46:41] But yeah, there's some really interesting moments in there, you know, where Fisk saying to him he does want to become the mayor of New York because he does love New York and says a rich man is self-serving, but a mayor serves his city. And what I love about Matt is Matt is a human lie detector. That's part of the abilities that he has is that he can tell when someone's lying. And I think he believes that at least Wilson Fisk believes this about himself. He believes he wants to become mayor because he wants to serve his city.

[00:47:10] And that's the interesting thing about Wilson Fisk's character. He has always believed in what he's doing, that he's doing the right thing. He never believes that what he's doing is the wrong thing. So so what's interesting about their dynamic is Matt's trying to get him to trip up and say, well, really, what I want to do is is free the cities and allow allow all the villains to take over. And what he's actually saying to him is I want to bring the city back to the way it used to be and get rid of all the vigilantes is the big platform that he's running on.

[00:47:39] Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, because this whole conversation, you know, really stops starts to slip, though. But and it's because, you know, Matt has his suspicions. He's concerned that Kingpin is back and he's just gaming the system. As I say, he's trying to find that out. But, you know, I think there's a few like tense moments where Fisk kind of without being asked confirms he didn't have anything to do with Foggy's death.

[00:48:04] And I'm like going, OK, maybe that's just maybe that is right. Maybe it's not. But also I know there's still that thing in the back of my head where I'm going is just going to be revealed at the end of the series that that Bullseye was working for Fisk. Exactly. Exactly. And I think, you know, you have Matt really both of them starting to caution one another effectively.

[00:48:32] That matters, you know, if you've changed, that's fine. But step out of line and I'll bring retribution. You know, whereas Fisk talks to Matt about the darkness inside, the violent nature that can transform you. And talking about throwing Bullseye off the roof effectively. But equally, Fisk then moves it that he is not going to tolerate vigilantes and men in costume.

[00:49:01] So if he goes back to that, he will be pursued by the law. Yes, there will be consequences if you go back. So I kind of like how this kind of initial standoff goes from a little bit like slightly jovial to some extent. But all the time, it was always going to end off with this seriousness and the boundaries being drawn. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:49:30] If you go back, if either of them go back to their old ways, the other will punish them for it. It's kind of the rule that comes out of this. But yeah, it is interesting when Fisk mentions about Matt. He's the one that confirms that Matt was trying to kill Bullseye when he threw him off the roof. That's the confirmation that we have. So again, a piece of information that Kingpin shouldn't know about Daredevil and a piece of information that Daredevil shouldn't know about Fisk are both shared in this conversation.

[00:49:58] Both knowing that this is their biggest nemesis. They have both kept tabs on each other throughout the years. So yeah, really, really interesting one. And yeah, as we said, he has become New York mayor and leaves everybody with a good night saying tonight and every night I love New York. So yeah, it's a massive moment. And I guess it's kind of summed up by the social media manager that you mentioned earlier on where he's going,

[00:50:26] Mayor Fisk, that was the coolest thing in the world. And that's why he's gotten to this position. We're here watching him from the outside, knowing this guy is a real villainous character. And here he is sitting atop New York in that massive position of power over the city and what's Matt going to do about it? Yeah, really interesting. Absolutely. Good stuff. Derek, any notes for this episode? I think we talked through all my notes, but I'm going to leave the one note I do have. I'm going to leave it to you because it's a little callback to our old days. It is, absolutely.

[00:50:56] We do have our whiskey watch, our first whiskey watch of the Disney Plus era in Josie's bar. Now, one of those whiskey watches is our first question. That's right. But there is another one. And whilst very blurry, I think we do have it as either Summer Hill or Summer Hall whiskey. Yes. And that Josie pours for Cherry and Lieutenant Kim. So, yes. Our first whiskey watch.

[00:51:25] I wonder if we will get any more. We brought this in with Jessica Jones because she liked her whiskey. She certainly did. But we do get a lot of whiskey being poured out there in Josie's bar at the start of this episode. And a famous tale of a mythical whiskey, which will be our first Josie's pub quiz question. Yes. But before we get on to our pub quiz, let's wrap up the episode with our usual. John, do you defend Daredevil Born Again Season 1, Episode 1?

[00:51:55] I absolutely do defend this episode of Daredevil Born Again. I give this four and a half red bullseyes, give you wings, out of five. Yes. I thought this was a really strong opener in terms of telling you where everyone is, whether that's six feet under, whether it is guacamole as opposed to full avocados,

[00:52:21] and how they've recovered from a bullet to the head and are back in New York looking to plot the next phase of the domination of that city, but this time through the mayoral race. So I really liked it. I felt the first opening, great getting bullseye back.

[00:52:41] You know, he is a psychopath and it comes across really well in that opening fight scene, the pain of the loss of Foggy and how that sort of rips apart the remaining members of Nelson, Murdoch and Paige with, you know, effectively through their grief of the loss of their friend.

[00:53:08] And I really liked that final scene between Matt and Fisk in the diner. It's such a great face-off and loved that. I'm just intrigued by a number of the different things through here. You know, the conventional campaign manager versus the unconventional members of the team that Fisk has brought on for his advisory team and campaign team. Book, interesting to see his role here.

[00:53:36] But equally then the relationship with Vanessa, with Fisk and Matt's with Heather. And indeed, Kirsten McDuffie, because I'm really pleased you've got Murdoch and McDuffie as the new law firm. And maybe we can add a page to that by the end of the season, possibly. But yeah, for me, four and a half red bull eyes gives you winks. Nice. After five. Nice. Well done. Well done.

[00:54:06] No trademark infringement intended. Excellent. Excellent. Derek, do you defend Daredevil Born Again Season 1, Episode 1? Oh, yes, I do. We're back, baby. I'm so glad we are back with Daredevil. You know, this prospect that we could have had a fourth season of Daredevil this long after the first three seasons finished. I never thought it would really happen. It was saved by the fans. I think they're all giving credit for that.

[00:54:34] That without the fans pushing for the return of Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio and Eldon Henson and Debra Ann Wall to the roles that made them really famous, really stand out. If it wasn't for the fans, it wouldn't be here. And I think when they had finished the first version of the series, they realized that what the fans really want is a follow up to the original Daredevil series rather than something brand new. So I like how they bridged the gap between the two. Things have to be different. Things have moved on.

[00:55:04] The Netflix series weren't at their faults. There are things that will be done better and can be done better. So I'm glad they took the opportunity here to give us a moment at least of nostalgia and then kind of use that nostalgia against us fans. Having them kill off such a major character as Foggy to kick this story into motion and break up the avocados at law completely. Leaving Matt on his own with a brand new cast of characters around him and dealing with the familiar villain that is Wilson Fisk is a great way to start off the series.

[00:55:34] I'm really interested in the story they're going to tell this season with Mare Fisk. It's one of the most interesting storylines from the Daredevil comic books. I really enjoyed it when I read it before. And there's a couple of other people that are coming up in the season that I'm really excited to see as well. So a great kickoff for season one, episode one. Looking forward to episode two next time. Excellent stuff. I think without further ado, let us get on to Josie's pub quiz and the question for this episode of Daredevil.

[00:56:03] The whiskey watch in question form for the pub quiz. Yes. Throughout the season, we're going to be giving out a question each episode of Daredevil. All you need to do is gather the answers together and email us at the end of the season to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with your answers. And you could get your hands on some Daredevil born again goodies. Excellent stuff. Question one for the first episode of Daredevil born again. What is the name of the 20 year old bottle of whiskey that Josie keeps behind the bar? Excellent. It's said in dialogue.

[00:56:32] And I think we even see it being poured in the episode, but definitely said in dialogue. So you'll see it. Pop on your subtitles in that bar scene. You'll catch the spelling of it too. John, do you want to give the question one more time? Absolutely. What is the name of the 20 year old bottle of whiskey that Josie keeps behind the bar? Fantastic. That's it. Justice is served. That's the end of our discussion about the first episode of Daredevil born again. We will be back next time with our discussion about season one, episode two of Daredevil born again.

[00:57:02] But if you want a different flavor of what we cover here on TV Podcast Industries, we're also covering the wonderful Invincible over on Prime Video. We've got episode seven of that coming out this week, which we're looking forward to chatting all about. You can find that over on our main website at tvpodcastindustries.com as well. Absolutely. And of course, please support the podcast by sharing the podcast. Because sharing the podcast is, of course, sharing the love. Yes, it is.

[00:57:27] You can also as well leave a review and you can also support us through our Patreon and BuyMeACoffee accounts as well, if you wish to. Exactly. Exactly. But we'd love to share the podcast. Absolutely. Can't waste to go on this journey 10 years after starting the journey. Absolutely. And feedback, fellow defenders. Importantly, feedback. We love getting your thoughts in on these great shows.

[00:57:50] So please send it in to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or over on our Facebook group in the spoiler posts at facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash TV Podcast Industries. Absolutely. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll talk to you again next time. Absolutely. Thank you so much, fellow defenders, for joining us in this very special show from Marvel TV until episode two of Daredevil. Keep watching, keep listening, and of course, keep defending.

[00:58:19] Feels nice to be saying that again, doesn't it? Absolutely. Bye. Bye.