Captain America Brave New World Movie Review

[00:00:00] This is Movies on TV Podcast Industries. We're back in the MCU with our spoiler-filled chat all about Captain America Brave New World. You want to talk about it? It just doesn't sit right with me. Captain America answering to the president. President of the country who stole your life? It's not just that. We're talking about Thaddeus Thunderbolt Ross. Son of a bitch earned that nickname too.

[00:00:26] Look, I know Isaiah firsthand. Remember, Ross threw me in the raft. Hounded me, Steve, and Natasha for years. So why are you working for him? As long as you do, Captain America stands for people like him. You've got no business working for the government. You see what's going on out there? The country is lost. I'm standing next to the president, even if it's Ross. He gives people hope.

[00:00:59] Now you're a lot of people tend to lose to me. But I'm going to tell you what to do. You've got no money. Welcome back, fellow defenders, to Movies on TV Podcast Industries and the Marvel Cinematic Universe. We are chatting about Captain America Brave New World, the 35th movie in the MCU. I'm one of your hosts, Derek.

[00:01:25] Hello there, fellow defenders. Yes, I am one of your high-flying other hosts, John. Good to be back on the podcast. It seems like an age, even though it's only been probably just literally over a month. I've been leaving it to you and Chris to take on Invincible. Yes, we've been covering every episode of Invincible. It started out with three all in one day, and then we've been doing one a week since then. It's good to be back. It's like being back in a saddle.

[00:01:55] Did I say saddle? I meant harness. Absolutely. Absolutely. With wings and a shield. I'd go with the wings, I think. Yeah. You need both, though, John. Yeah. But, you see, I remember I was on Iron Man's side during the Civil War. Yes, true. I always forget that. But we are back in the Captain America-verse, which I'm really pleased about, actually.

[00:02:19] And, you know, really great to see Anthony Mackie here now as Captain America. And was really excited to see the new Falcon. He was played by Danny Ramirez. So it was good to see Danny Ramirez here as the Falcon. Yeah. Back again after his turn in Falcon and Winter Soldier, the TV show, of course. Yeah, exactly. And I think that was nice. I'd like to see that he came through from the TV, you know? Yeah.

[00:02:48] It could be so easy to sort of do a replacement or just have a different kind of person there. I know that's not the style of the MCU, but you just never know. So that was really good. So, yeah, I was really pumped for this movie. Excellent. Excellent. We will, of course, talk about all of our thoughts on the movie in our spoiler-filled discussion. Just make sure you go out and see it before you listen to our chat all about the movie.

[00:03:17] It's out this weekend in cinemas all across the world. So loads of opportunities to go and see it. But we are going to go into our full-on spoiler-filled chat. What we would love you to do, though, if you haven't subscribed to our podcast, please pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com. Subscribe to the main feed there. You get access to almost a thousand episodes now of all of our coverage of all of the shows and TV shows that we've covered over the years, including lots and lots of MCU coverage.

[00:03:43] You can also send your thoughts in on any of the shows that we cover to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or pop on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries. You can join us over there, chat about any of the stuff that we cover on the show here as well. Yeah, absolutely. Shall we get into our spoiler-filled discussion of Captain America Brave New World? Yes, we should. Derek, what are some of the movie details?

[00:04:11] Well, the producers for the 35th movie in the MCU are Kevin Feige, Nate Moore, Louis Desposito and Charles Newarth. This movie was directed by Julius Ona. Previously, the big movie that he directed, I suppose, was The Cloverfield Paradox, but he has done a number of very well-respected indie movies as well. So this is his first big MCU project, though. Interesting. Yeah. I kind of like that. I like that a lot. Yeah, it seems to me that the fact that Marvel tend to take is bring somebody on board that's done a small movie

[00:04:40] and acclaimed movie and bring them on board to tell the story of one of their big characters and then they have an action director come on board and do the action stuff in case they've never directed it before. So I'm sure we've had very similar people behind the scenes doing the action sequences here as we had on other Marvel movies and Captain America and the Winter Soldier TV show as well. So, yeah. Yeah. Excellent stuff. Yeah. Now, there are lots and lots of writers on this. The story for the movie was done by Rob Edwards, Malcolm Spellman and Dallin Musan.

[00:05:08] The screenplay was done by Rob Edwards, Malcolm Spellman, Dallin Musan, the director, Julius Ona and Peter Glance. Malcolm Spellman was the head writer and executive producer on The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Dallin wrote the penultimate episode of that series as well. But there have been a number of rewrites and additional writing happened since the original series came out. This was supposed to follow on directly from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier when that originally came out. But it's been quite a long time since that's come out.

[00:05:33] And the world has changed a bit and things changed in the MCU as they do on a regular basis. Lots of moving pieces. This movie was supposed to come out a while ago as well. It's been delayed a few times for various reasons like the writer's strike, the director's strike, so it's interesting seeing how many people are involved in the writing for the movie. Yeah, no, it is interesting. And maybe that in the end is a bit more representative of actually what certainly used to happen.

[00:06:02] I guess it'll change that up as they try and cut costs down the line. But it seems like the writing element, you always think of a book, don't you? And you think of a single author. Yeah. And yet we know from TV that there are writer's rooms and showrunner and then main writers.

[00:06:24] And that in a franchise type movie situation, you're going to probably have significant number of people involved in that. And then that gets compounded by the fact that you have writer's strike, director's strike, COVID, and these delays that have kind of bed in and the need to revisit certain things, I guess. Yeah.

[00:06:55] From the studio's point of view. Yeah. I think we'll probably talk about it as our discussion of the movie goes along. For me personally, while I absolutely accept there are writer's rooms and there's no denying that within the Marvel Studios system, Kevin Feige's at the top. There's a ton of writers underneath him breaking the stories, coming up with ideas for all of the 20 more movies that are planned to go and the 35 that have gone past so far.

[00:07:21] But they do usually leave it to a head writer, a lead writer to break the story and to give us a Marvel movie. In this case, having Malcolm Spellman and Dylan Masan, who both worked on Falcon and the Winter Soldier, being the original lead writers for this movie, felt like it could have been a direct sequel to that show. We know that show didn't land exactly as they wanted it to land because there's a number of re-explored ideas, I guess, in this movie. The movie itself has changed name from the original title that it had,

[00:07:51] which was originally supposed to be New World Order, but that had other connotations out in the world that they didn't want to explore. So it has now become Brave New World for its final release and added on, I think, two different rounds of writing where the writers took the original script and rewrote it in their own way to suit the story they wanted to tell in the end. One of the things I just wanted to call out was the music for the movie. It was done by Laura Cartman. Laura Cartman coming on board from the What If TV show, from Miss Marvel and the Marvels as well.

[00:08:18] So Laura Cartman, another one of the creative founders behind some of the Marvel movies and TV shows as well. So kind of cool to have her on here doing her take on the Captain America themes for this version of Captain America. Very good. John, do you want to tell us what they all gave us? With your synopsis for Captain America Brave New World. Sure. After being diagnosed with a terminal heart condition, cantankerous General Thaddeus Ross turns his life around and is announced as the new US President,

[00:08:47] promising togetherness in the face of overwhelming challenges in the world. Following the discovery of a brand new element, adamantium, in the body of the Celestial Tiamut that still resides in the Indian Ocean, countries across the world are battling for control of the powerful new material. When the Serpent Society, a rogue special ops group led by Sidewinder, steals a sample of adamantium, President Ross sends Captain America to Oaxaca in Mexico to retrieve the item.

[00:09:17] Backed up by his guy in the chair, Joaquin Torres, who wants to be the new Falcon, Cap recovers these items but Sidewinder escapes. If Torres is to be the new Falcon, Sam wants him to train with the best, so he sets up a session with another super soldier, Isaiah Bradley. To thank them for their service, President Ross invites Sam and Joaquin to the White House.

[00:09:43] As recompense, Sam asks for an invite for Isaiah too. But as Ross thanks the heroes, a song begins to play, triggering multiple attacks on the President. Isaiah is one of the shooters. He takes his shot and escapes the White House, pursued by the Secret Service and President Ross's private guard, former Black Widow, Ruth Batserif. But Sam reaches Isaiah first and manages to calm him down.

[00:10:10] He soon realizes, though, he has no memory of the incident. But with the high-profile attack, Isaiah is imprisoned while the investigation takes place. As Sam tries to clear his friend's name, he and Joaquin learn there is one person behind everything who they must uncover. President Ross has a secret. Following Bruce Banner's escape 16 years ago, Ross locked up his scientist contact Samuel Stearns,

[00:10:38] forcing him to be his own personal think tank and to create a cure for his illness. But imbued with supreme intelligence, Stearns has used his skills to plant commands in agents across the world. He created a statistically probable chain of events to get payback on President Ross. When the Japanese government chooses to take the adamantium for themselves, the US tries to intercept them. Stearns' manipulation almost leads the two countries to war,

[00:11:08] until Captain America and Falcon convince them otherwise. But Falcon is injured in the crossfire. As President Ross announces the new cooperation between Japan and the US, Sam learns that Stearns' real plan was to turn President Ross into a real monster. The life-saving pills he created to save Ross were infused with gamma radiation, which transforms the President into the aggressive Red Hulk. Sam has to use all of his abilities to calm the monster inside Ross,

[00:11:38] who finally gives himself up and is taken to the RAF prison, where his estranged daughter Betty pays him a visit. With the true culprits in custody, Isaiah Bradley is rightfully freed. And Samuel Stearns warns Captain America of the impending arrival of others, who will destroy their world. Meanwhile, Sam decides Thaddeus Ross was right about the need for a new Avengers initiative.

[00:12:04] He officially recruits the recovering Joaquin Torres as the new Falcon, as they set out to find their new teammates. And breathe. Yeah, that was very long, fellow defenders, so apologies for that. But it's a big movie. Lots of different elements to it. But I think, you know, it was... I think there's a good, fairly direct storyline in here.

[00:12:30] But it's good to see it bringing the events of the Incredible Hulk there, with Samuel Stearns, who's played by Tim Blake Nelson, who I absolutely love. All the way back to Oh Brother, where I kind of first really sort of got to see him properly, I think. I think so. He was great in that. You know, I think he was in all the stuff as well before that,

[00:12:56] but that's where I really kind of, well, maybe leap into Tim Blake Nelson as an actor and really enjoy his stuff. Yeah, it's really interesting that they take some of the lead from Incredible Hulk. That was the second movie released when the Marvel Cinematic Universe was getting established. It was just after Iron Man. It's largely forgotten because Edward Norton played the role of Bruce Banner in that movie. A lot of people kind of ignored it.

[00:13:25] They didn't really realize it was as incorporated into the world. We didn't see many of the characters before, other than Thunderbolt Ross, who is now played by a different actor. Thunderbolt Ross originally played by William Hurt, all the way back to that movie, and has appeared himself a few times across the MCU for the last couple of years in big movies like Civil War, like the Avengers Endgame. You know, he's appeared a number of times and unfortunately passed away a couple of years ago, so has been replaced here by Harrison Ford. But it's really interesting hearing and seeing some reviews.

[00:13:54] The numbering of the MCU gets changed sometimes. People sometimes call this the 34th movie instead of the 35th movie. And a lot of that is because people have discounted the Incredible Hulk so much that they feel it's not part of the MCU. And also people just getting the numbering wrong as well. I'm not saying I'm 100% sure it's the 35th movie either, but according to my numbering, it's the 35th movie. But it is an interesting jumping off point. Absolutely. And the other big jumping off point, of course, is the fact that Winter Soldier TV show and the other Captain America movies.

[00:14:24] We will get into our major bullet points about it, but the first thing I would say is one of the kind of drawbacks for this movie for me was the amount I knew about it going into the film. I think the advertising for it, the marketing for it, the casting announcement for it from a company like Marvel who tends to keep a lot of that stuff back felt like I was prepared from the moment I sat down for what was going to happen at the end of the movie. Some character appearances that I probably shouldn't have known about until the movie was over and the credits are rolling.

[00:14:53] I knew about months and months in advance. So I was quite surprised at that. And I feel like as we go through the movie, I wonder whether I would have had a different experience if I hadn't have known all the things I knew going into the movie. Yeah, I mean, I think for me, I would have done, yeah, for sure. I mean, the Red Hulk is a huge spoiler. I think so. It kind of, in a sense, sort of pulls the rug

[00:15:22] under the feet of the whole movie to some extent. It does, doesn't it? I feel so, yeah. Because that's kind of the big reveal, yet you're, but you know it's coming. So in the end, my big debate is about whether the pills that Thaddeus Ross or President Ross is taking is the ones that are preventing him from turning into the Red Hulk or causing it.

[00:15:51] And we find out that it's actually causing it. And I'm like going, this doesn't feel like it has the same cultural significance as Red Pill, Blue Pill from The Matrix as to does it have gamma radiation or not? And I mean, it just undermines, I think, this. And it means that I think a few other things are undermined as well. But I wonder if that's only for us.

[00:16:20] We have covered every Marvel movie. We've covered every TV show. Maybe not. Had a podcast about every single one, but we've watched every one of them. We've covered all the TV shows. We've covered everything. We are fully aware of the universe. And we're now 35 movies. And as pointed out in this movie, 17 years into the MCU, you've got 17-year-olds who weren't born when the Iron Man was out. So I think for me, it was stuff like knowing Liv Tyler was going to be in the movie. She's the last new character to appear in two seconds of the movie at the end,

[00:16:48] and knowing Tim Blake Nelson comes back, his reveal is an hour into the movie that this is a character we knew before. And knowing the Red Hulk is there, which, understandably, it's the cool thing that will draw people into the movie. So it just felt odd that it was something revealed towards the end of the movie. But I don't want to be too down because we knew this stuff. No, absolutely. I mean, ultimately, you know, spoilers, I enjoyed this movie. I'm certainly going to recommend it in my out of five. And, you know,

[00:17:17] just to counter my own point previously that, you know, knowing the Red Hulk was going to come here undermined it. It did because it was so obvious. But I do actually need to counter that myself because I think the thing is is that Captain America Winter Soldier, the actual title gave away that the Winter Soldier was coming, and yet that movie had an edge and an eeriness to it

[00:17:46] despite knowing that it was coming. He was coming. It was how he arrived in the movie, how the tension and the pressure built up. And I just, that just didn't happen for me on this movie. So this to me, as a Marvel cinematic movie, felt really by the numbers. Mm-hmm. And not to the same extent as the Sony Marvel. Yeah. Like,

[00:18:16] absolutely nothing like that. They're by the numbers 90s Marvel movies. This is by the numbers MCU. Yeah, exactly. Which is still a very high bar in comparison to the crappy Marvel movies over in Sony. Yeah. Like, the real heart and soul and I think the real edge in this movie came around Isaiah Bradley and Sam and Joaquin. Yeah. and that also was brilliant but also some of that you felt you'd seen in the TV show.

[00:18:46] Mm-hmm. And so, again, slightly undermined but ultimately I enjoyed the movie and Anthony Mackie I'm always going to turn up to the cinema to see because I just really, really enjoy him and his characters as he's portrayed them in the MCU including in this movie. Absolutely. You know, despite maybe me not having such a warm sense to it initially but I also need to probably re-watch it

[00:19:16] because I've seen The Winter Soldier a million times this I've seen once but I think that's the main thing really, you know? Yeah, it's really interesting that you mention The Winter Soldier because this movie of course is going to have the comparison that is the best of the Marvel movies it's the best Captain America movie and here we are basically Captain America for a brand new Captain America here and also really interestingly you mentioned The Winter Soldier because we knew that was Bucky from the start from the comic book fans we knew it was going to be Bucky there were probably people in that audience who went to and went oh my god

[00:19:45] that's his friend from the first movie you know? That's true. So here you will have people that will be really surprised at some of the reveals and some of the moments that are going on I do feel it's a bit of a reset for the MCU as it gets into a new wider world after 35 movies for people who are 15, 16, 17 years old coming along to their first Captain America movie and hopefully going to enjoy this as much as we enjoyed those movies as they were coming out as well but in that vein our bullet point number one just like Captain America's Winter Soldier started out with a big mission for Cap

[00:20:15] to establish him in this world here we have the Mexican mission where we establish how our new Captain America how Sam Wilson is in this role and who his new sidekick is Joaquin Torres we say that he was in Falcon and Winter Soldier a very small role really in Falcon and Winter Soldier because they were dealing with those two major characters but really cool to have this sprightly enjoyable character here in Joaquin Torres the guy in the chair almost but he also wants to get access

[00:20:44] to Sam's Falcon gear wants to become the new Sam which we see in this whole Mission Den of Mexico yeah he's effectively Sam's army liaison support guy but he's been doing that job for too long and is excited about what Sam does so wants to be a part of that wants to be the new Falcon I really really enjoyed that and I really liked as well that this mission

[00:21:13] like introduces Sidewinder and I love the fact that it's played by Giancarlo Esposito Seth Volker Sidewinder and I guess this was a kind of interesting surprise for me I thought Sidewinder was going to be the main antagonist here and in a sense wasn't but I do like the fact that Sidewinder persists in this

[00:21:43] world still yeah you know could be that Winter Soldier type antagonist to Sam but without any history so actually it's worse because there's no chance of a resolution to it so you know maybe that's a really interesting kind of duo you know the dark and the light here being introduced and again Giancarlo Esposito really enjoys his character

[00:22:12] I mean I think the moment where he sort of crashes into the big truck that Sam is driving and comes out guns blazing as he does this ambush almost of Sam you know you really get the sense that Sam is in trouble here but also you know he's upped for the task and I like that because there is that sort of thing pervading through this movie

[00:22:42] about well he doesn't have super soldier serum so you know he is in a sense human he's not pumped up with serum yeah and I think this is one of the things that they have to deal with in the MCU as well isn't it when you have a TV show that takes one of the major storylines out of the movie out of the cinema puts it on TV explains the story and then you come back to the cinema again with this character under the title of Captain America and now it's Sam Wilson now it's Anthony Mackie they do have to address

[00:23:12] those people that only see the movies they have to do it and so when someone walks into the cinema and goes hang on a second that's Sam Wilson how would he have the power to deal with this stuff so here they upgrade a suit now we've got a brand new Captain America suit I think it's pretty damn cool love seeing him with the wings that are now provided to him by the Wakandans who had a good part in Falcon the Winter soldier this is their reward I suppose for him dealing with Baron Zemo who also played a major role in the series

[00:23:42] so what I love about this really is the fact that I feel like you should see the TV show I thought the TV show was really good and it's taking jumping points off it but there is an explanation for how Sam is able to deal with these kind of superpowered villains that is given to you on screen here as well he's also got this brand new suit which he gets off screen we didn't see that in the TV show but here he is fully powered up and able to deal with it he's using Captain America's shield just like

[00:24:12] Steve Rogers did in the past and he's using his wings now the way he used to use them but also with the added benefit of the vibranium that Wakanda have infused into it so he's able to take the damage and he's able to do the energy blast that you can then release back to sort of create a shockwave and all that so yeah really good and very handy when up against the Red Hulk well absolutely it comes in very handy later on and as we mentioned we do have the new sidekick in Joaquin

[00:24:41] Torres being the new Falcon which comes in really handy when things split you know we have the Serpent Society trying to keep the brand new Captain America at bay while they get away with the stolen adamantium Falcon goes after that while Sam is trying to stop Sidewinder here from getting away as well so yeah and so it was it was a good little opening actually it was yeah good action and a good sort of

[00:25:10] connection made and I think that's really important here you know because okay I don't want to be using comparisons all the time but Cap had Bookie and ultimately and I think here what's great is Sam and Joaquin they really really connect for me they look and feel like a really good partnership moving forward yeah and I think what's really good as well is very early on as well you get

[00:25:39] the requests coming from the newly elected President Ross to form a new Avengers yeah and so I think on to bullet point number two yeah and because after that mission and both Joaquin and Sam get invited to the White House and to be sort of recognized for their work yeah and for recovering this stolen adamantium

[00:26:09] from the Serpent Society yes exactly exactly lots of little little things revealed in the start here I love the reveal that the item that they've recovered is adamantium we know adamantium from the comics because it's what Wolverine's claws are made of so a big connection into Wolverine big connection into the X-Men here who will be appearing in the MCU pretty soon but here's where we bring in another character that was I think a real

[00:26:39] standout of Falcon the Winter Soldier Isaiah Bradley just absolutely great and played by Carl Lumley in the TV show and of in the movie here and the way they bring him in I think is really interesting having this constant push from Joaquin Torres to become the Falcon and Sam goes well do you know what you can't get to meet Ant-Man you're not an Avenger yet if you want to learn how to become Falcon I'm going to get you taught by a former Captain America I did like Sam's constant not by Ant-Man I

[00:27:16] Ant-Man movie that was one of the plot points I like that little touch I thought that was nice coming from Sam again I think for me the Isaiah Bradley story is really really powerful it was in the TV show and it continues here it's very heartbreaking it is that soul I think of this about the bad things that were done and forced upon Isaiah

[00:27:45] Bradley back in the 50s for the Korean War and that's really powerful in the TV show this idea of justice no matter who you are the idea that you get justice for bad things that are done to you and I do like how this is brought through into here I like the fact that Sam is maintaining that sort of close friendship with him and trying to see that

[00:28:15] his wrong is right yeah and it's really tough almost because we've seen what happened to him we've seen the history he's gone through we've seen that he's disavowed nobody knows who he is one of the plot points at the end of Falcon the Winter Soldier is that Captain America puts an extra wing in the Smithsonian exhibit dedicated to this lost Captain America Isaiah and here Sam and Joaquin are getting the invite to go to the White House and he refuses it he said he won't go unless Isaiah is being invited up here and look what happens to poor Isaiah

[00:28:45] he basically spends the rest of the movie behind bars for something that he was not in control of I think the other thing I like the nice little touch point around the suit that he's wearing which was when he the suit that he wore to get married and he's kind of

[00:29:20] that comes through their mobile phones and there's a number of different personnel that are then shooting in the White House I think there's five of them that stand up the biggest one is the former Cap America Isaiah Bradley I really like that touch as well as you say there's five people in the room that stand up that take their attempts but he's the one that gets closest and he's the one that's chased down and arrested he's the one that's the most important because he's got a super

[00:29:50] soldier shirt inside him so he takes those three shots from the gun they all smash into the glass the presentation glass that the president is using and he he remembers arriving there a little flash on his phone and then

[00:30:19] that whole period is wiped from his memory yeah absolutely I mean I think the other thing that really nicely kind of contrasts this whole part of the movie is Sam Joaquin and Isaiah arriving and all their banter in the back of the limo you know we know that Isaiah wasn't particularly keen on sort of joining them but is persuaded and we know that

[00:30:49] he Sam is looking for him to sort of teach Joaquin and there's a great energy and banter between the three just before this and that's what makes it more kind of heartbreaking really is that in the end Bradley is arrested for this attempt on the president's life because immediately what becomes apparent is that both with Bradley

[00:31:18] but also with the other people that took shots not only do you have this cue music that plays in the White House Mr. Blue but also they capture on CCTV just the phone their mobile phones flashing and almost conditioning the prospective assassins prior to the event by the president yeah yeah

[00:31:48] this is kind of where one of the new characters Ruth Batzaraf is introduced in here and we're really in that you know those 70 conspiracy theory movies here you know like of course Manchurian Candidate would be the big one but that's where it's starting to feel really similar to Winter Soldier isn't it these are the moments where you're feeling those political thrillers of the 70s coming out through the storytelling absolutely and I think what's really powerful here I think it's just the thing that maybe they just let go of really a bit too

[00:32:18] soon is the paranoia like the Manchurian Candidate is a really good example of where you know the people in power don't know whether their best colleague their brightest colleague their best friend who's also a colleague at the highest levels of national security aren't also working against them and that paranoia you know the deep throat element and I think

[00:32:47] you kind of get that sense initially here and I think they just kind of let it go because there's some really good aspects firstly that you know these people have the potential on queue to be conditioned to turn violent who else is that you know has it gotten to Joaquin has it even gotten to Sam you know that distrust and I don't think

[00:33:28] it the incarceration of Samuel Stearns is he still there he's concerned that he's escaped and gotten out and this is the attack on him and that's it it's getting that balance right which is the really difficult part isn't it because of course the Manchurian candidate that was the entire movie it was only about who could be the traitor in my midst yeah so that is the entire plot of your movie

[00:33:58] with the MCU you have to also add in well there's Captain America in there he's got to have a big action sequence fighting against some bad guys you know you've got to have that you've got to have the friendship between him and Falcon building up so that does get a bit lost in there and again having this character of Ruth Batarath supposed to be the investigator she's going on the investigation route but

[00:34:29] it's almost like she's doing the leg work but ultimately it keeps coming from other people where she should go and what she should do there's literally just a point when she appears in the movie in

[00:34:59] there must have been more of this character in there and interestingly also there's a character agent Lila Taylor who is the security head for the president you see him confiding in her when he's talking at the graveyard to his wife or confiding in her about the fact in the

[00:35:29] final movie they seem to both be doing a very similar thing for the president they both seem to be in charge of his security it felt a bit odd I will also say I thought Ruth Batzeroff had a name like a James Bond character because of the way a lot of the Americans were pronouncing her name it sounded like she was called Batzeroff so all Batzeroff when she's

[00:35:59] but that's kind of the big point around Bradley that it is his story in here that he once again is being accused of something that he didn't do by the US government and is going to prison for it he's being put incarcerated for the foreseeable future unless Sam can free him unless Sam can find out where this all came from which brings us on to our bullet point number three the leader's plot we'd mentioned Samuel Stern earlier on a character that was in incredible

[00:36:29] hulk back in 17 years ago mr. blue back then he was called mr. blue when he was talking to the incredible hulk who was called mr. green in their conversation so he's the one that uses this song mr. blue to to to ignite the people that he has is able to use for his for his missions his character is really interesting here the leader has got additional super powered intelligence from an interaction with the blood

[00:36:59] of the hulk back in that movie he now has enhanced thinking he is able to look at all probabilities of all situations and come out with the perfect probability of all events going in his way but it seems like a real superpower something we haven't seen in the Marvel cinematic universe very often other than you know this person was created by god so this person is a god therefore he has super straight their super speed or something like that here this super

[00:37:28] enhanced intelligence seems very different for the MCU it seems like something we haven't seen explained on screen in quite a long time yeah I think so what do you think of it as a power no I really like it as a power I think my main thing here is I wish they had slightly I guess it's just my presence I wanted more like Zemo you know I really kind of wanted to understand

[00:37:59] better his absolute contempt for Thaddeus Ross and I don't think it came across enough and I think aesthetically I wanted it more like Baron Zemo because ultimately you got the sense that Baron Zemo again hugely skilled at the probabilities of it not in the same sense as the leader but coming at it from a very personal point of view that absolutely was the you know you immediately think that it's

[00:38:29] something to do with Hydra or something because of the Russian book but ultimately it's a very personal thing for Baron Zemo Zemo's plot was hinged on the fact that he was a simple person who couldn't go up against superheroes who will have them tear themselves apart here it is absolutely a superpower he is playing with the probabilities of everything around him and when some things are really convenient and happen very conveniently there's no way he could have

[00:38:59] known that Sam Wilson and Joaquin Torres and Isaiah Bradley were going to be in that room with the president and he would be able to get Isaiah Bradley to pick up a gun and shoot at the president except it's his superpower to know exactly those outcomes of every situation so I think we should have had a little bit more explanation of that I felt like the thing they wanted to explain more so was why did he do it at the end of it rather than how did he do it at the beginning of it and aesthetically because it obviously

[00:39:28] needed CGI to do his knobbly head I actually aesthetically I wish he wasn't deformed I just wish he came across without the knobbly head or even as he thought about something it pulsated or rippled in the hair line in fact I think when the blood goes into him when he's lying on the floor it's a little cut in his head and you see it pulsating a little bit with

[00:40:00] it a bit more because I think like you say sometimes unless it's by divine intervention or through books and learning like Doctor Strange it's like these things that people are working at I think with the Hulk it's because you have to be exposed to gamma radiation and like with the Hulk I would like to see that kind of dichotomy of the fact that

[00:40:30] he's not green he's not got knobbly hairs to all intents and purposes he comes across as quite normal but the gamma is working on his brain and his thought processes and his ability to work out all and manipulate the probabilities of things happening and working towards that seeing those outcomes and impacting and influencing those outcomes like it's said in drop lines it's explained a bit but I think

[00:41:00] it's just about how well it's done like for example they tried to make it really clear but I don't think it is clear the reason why Thaddeus Ross is president of the United States of America having been this really curmudgeon general who everybody hates the reason why to the position as

[00:41:30] president he became the president one person think tank who was locked up in a prison working only for Ross for 16 years to get him in this position where he stands in front of the American people and goes together is how we will win this thing even though anybody knows Ross from the movies everything that he's done has always torn everybody apart I mean he's that character for me in Marvel comics in the Hulk TV show in the

[00:42:00] movies that really gets under my skin I really dislike him and it's such a great characterization because that's exactly what he's supposed to be and I think Harrison Ford does a good job of getting to that point as well and actually at the start you're kind of going why is Ross talking about togetherness how has he been able to transition from being a military

[00:42:30] general to present there are absolutely examples of that in the US like Eisenhower and Grant there's also examples of octogenarians over 80 year old being the only option for president of the United States and then not getting their position as president and somebody else who is also way too old to be president becoming president probably in the editing time

[00:43:08] and hulk more like the actual president would you think possibly that might have been part of the editing and rewriting that have gone I kind of don't know now I think for me the whole White House thing it probably imbued with too much rawness like the lesson of the tale is I don't need to involve the White House I think

[00:43:37] ultimately you have the leader's plot getting Thaddeus Ross to the White House and then setting up the situations like the Serpent Society in Oaxaca in confrontation with Japan and the US to bring about these events which increasingly is putting and adding layers of pressure onto President

[00:44:07] Ross and you see him almost breaking down and there you go you see him taking the tablets and you think that's what's calming him down most notably when the US and Japan send their fleets to the celestial Tiamat that island in order to claim the adamantium this new precious material that has been found on Tiamat the celestial

[00:44:37] island as they're calling it I like that I'm really pleased that they involve the celestial that you've got that recognition of a huge rock celestial coming out of the Indian ocean from the eternals of course from the eternals but you know the leader is bringing all these together and you know being able to mind control at various aspects we have you know the assassination attempt in the White House but now then as the US and Japan send their

[00:45:07] fighter jets towards towards one another you have him controlling the mind of the pilot so that they engage with one another and you get the pressure of this situation building on President Ross and you see him grabbing a little squeeze of metal pipe so it's building there and it's all there to force out the monster of Thaddeus Ross

[00:45:37] and I do like that symbolism that the Red Hulk embodies the monster that Thaddeus Ross is as a human it's the inner demon being let out it's that metaphor you know for Thaddeus Ross and I just really really kind of enjoyed that and I liked seeing him kind of yeah and it's

[00:46:07] interesting thinking back because again when we were going to the cinema watching the movie and going throughout I absolutely thought there had been other instances in the past when he'd become the Red Hulk in the privacy of his own home or something and here he was trying to prevent it from happening again whereas watching the movie again thinking about it you go well actually he never knew that's what was going to happen to him he never knew he would literally blow his top and become the monster that he chased down 16 years ago but even more aggressive even more angry

[00:46:37] that's all he was this mindless monster we're so used to seeing Bruce Banner over the last couple of movies being smart Hulk for example we're so used to seeing him being really restrained in the role just being a very powerful person we've seen She-Hulk an entire series where we had a person in control of the monster inside and here we have Thaddeus Ross who has no control at all he is completely mindless when he does eventually become the Red Hulk so that was really interesting I was kind of hoping we'd just see it a little

[00:47:07] bit more early on you'd love to see him transform back into a human and go what the hell just happened to me there we're kind of expecting a little bit more of that but with the leaders plot setting US versus Japan against each other we also have Sam as Captain America and Falcon having to go out to this battle and stop two mind controlled pilots from starting World War 3 basically so we do have the involvement of them and they don't really know what's going on they still haven't fully worked

[00:47:36] out that it's to do with mind control yeah and I mean it slowly though gets exposed where the prison that the leader has been kept in where the prison bars come down on the doorway and you have Sam in there with Joachim and you just have the silhouette of the leader really

[00:48:06] really enjoyed that I love him just sending the guards after them as they pursue him and all of that I just really really enjoyed again it was like it was like Steve Rogers and Black Widow investigating what was going on in Witcher Soldier exactly and I as I say I think that could have been I just think it could have been drawn out more I mean I do think that there is a moment where the leader suddenly turns up at a place there's another one

[00:48:36] of the army guys I think is investigating what's happening and he just kills them and I know he knows that they should be there because he's seen all the outcomes probabilities but I just don't think it

[00:49:07] teleport he's still going to get a train or whatever to get there but I think part of that has to do with this being the shortest MCU movie in a very long time it

[00:49:37] are stopping him from becoming or are they causing him becoming the Red Hulk so yeah there needed to be a but

[00:50:07] that's the complexity of the leader's plot for bullet point number three one of the things that does happen in that battle over the sea is that Torres goes in too hard as the Falcon and almost gets killed an interesting little touch that I only remembered afterwards this is what happened to Falcon's partner in the past before he met up with Steve Rogers his partner died in a similar situation when they were both using their wingsuits that's why he

[00:50:36] met up with Steve and that's why he he had left the army at point out around I think it was Joaquin that you're the right person to be there for him but having said that I do

[00:51:06] wish they hadn't taken him out and effectively put him in hospital for the remainder of the movie and that mainly is to do with the final big showdown between Sam and the Red Hulk to be honest I if we had the two of them side by side it would have set up a really strong team up going forward and

[00:51:57] to have to have a team around him that's for the next Avengers movie to explain I'm sure that's what the decision had to be made so they take Torres out here it's a reminder that Sam has lost people in the past it's a

[00:52:27] he's not as much of a superhero he's still biting at the heels of Captain America it does make sense but there was just

[00:52:57] exactly I suppose it does speak to the MCU a little bit more when they deal with their human characters that they do tend

[00:53:27] make him invulnerable invincible or a superhero so I can see why they did it but it does lead to our bullet point number four he gets his own bullet point John a visit from Bucky Barnes being the other central character in Falcon the Winter Soldier I suppose we should have guessed that the Winter Soldier was going to come into this movie but I was quite surprised to see him appear here as Torres is recovering in the

[00:53:56] room he's getting an operation Sam is watching it over him and Bucky arrives in the room to give Sam some advice yeah I think this took me completely by surprise I mean firstly in a good way because it was like it's Bucky Barnes and I absolutely love Bucky Barnes I love the Winter Soldier and then kind of in a bad way because I

[00:54:37] did feel feel feel a little bit too cameo for me I would have loved to have Bucky Barnes that connection between the two be involved a bit more than being a sense of Bucky Barnes who gave that two cents book up Sam so I think if Bucky wasn't saying the things that were as important as the things he actually said to Sam

[00:55:07] this is the post credit scene this is where you have Bucky setting up his appearance in Thunderbolts coming up in just can't even protect the one young kid that has put his trust in him the one young kid that's been inspired by Sam

[00:55:37] the one that's been by his side he can't even protect him and he's in a bed possibly going through a really terrible operation that may not be able to walk after is what is going on in Sam's head and Bucky is here to tell him you can lead the Avengers but don't do it because you think you're like Steve Rogers Steve Rogers had the super soldier serum you don't have that but even with the super soldier serum Steve couldn't save everybody in his life that's not what it's about I love the line

[00:56:07] Steve gave people something to cameo was here it's just that I wish there had been more yeah and it's also one of those things were absolutely he's doing two things here he's setting up

[00:56:37] that he's going to have to be a senator in Thunderbolts but also being that connector here giving Sam his pep talk around that really really important but also I just felt like bringing back again I think I just walked out the movie going I wanted the white wolf and I got a public

[00:57:06] senator yeah yeah but I he was basically reiterating what Sam felt like at the end of that series where he finally accepted the mantle and became Captain America he's going back on himself Sam going back on those thoughts again

[00:57:36] in this movie but that's for those in the back that didn't pay attention to the TV show that Sam questioning himself am I the right person here again and Bucky is here to reiterate absolutely you are the right person they could have done something different we wanted to see Joaquin Torres at the end as the Falcon standing side by side with Captain America well you could have had Bucky coming in at the end to battle against the Red Hulk in that final battle at the end you could have done that but I presume again

[00:58:06] this is to do with the MCU they great line you know about Steve gave people something to believe in you give them something to aspire to because they're in is the essence of

[00:58:36] the difference and who better to do that than Bucky who as I say is that bridge but equally I think like with the new Avengers thing it's like he's there giving that advice again if he showed up at some point to help with the Red Hulk but again it's just that bridge of the Avenger and when asked if he would be a part of it he goes I'll always be around

[00:59:05] but I've got something else to do onto the Thunderbolts so loved Bucky because he's such a great character so glad he was in this really important thing I actually I think we can get Sebastian Stan down here he's doing so many movies god this guy is nominated for Emmys he's nominated for

[00:59:35] Oscars I think this year or at least the BAFTAs this year he's done so much since the last time we've seen him on screen and of course he's in the Thunderbolts he's quite a big character I believe in the Thunderbolts so it felt like maybe we can't get him down here he'll give him that push even if we don't have Bucky in his full outfit going toe to toe with another Hulk we have

[01:00:06] Sam with the reminder of who he is and why he should be able to stand up to he had so zero interaction with any other character other than Sam Wilson in the scene it did feel like maybe they just added that to just

[01:00:35] because they had some time with Sebastian Stan and because it in a couple of months time yeah absolutely hopefully as the white wolf or back as the winter soldier which I think

[01:01:05] is going to happen I five I'm mad as hell and I just can't take it anymore we have Harrison Ford as the red hulk we certainly

[01:01:35] do so the leader's plan comes to fruition at a press conference as we see President Ross getting more and more aggressive and aggravated about what's going on and then it's revealed that Starns is free as well something he'd been trying to keep under wraps for 15 or 16 years at this stage that he'd just been keeping this guy prisoner using him as his think tack for that long yeah absolutely again I don't know

[01:02:04] I don't mean to kind of be too down on this I guess because it was spoiled but it was kind of like we had a challenging press conference and he turned into the Red Hulk like I kind of would understand it a bit more being under a fire from Japanese missiles on the ship but we did see that too yeah slight turn but he doesn't turn the press are really annoying in America at the moment I get it but it's

[01:02:34] just like it felt odd it felt edited weirdly yes that's what I'd say but ultimately we get what we get and we have him turning I think it was to the point of having him turn into the Red Hulk on the front of the White House and then partially dismantling the White House so we get it it's for the look but we've seen Statue of Liberty torn apart we've

[01:03:04] seen the monument that the Lincoln memorial that was torn apart as well both in Spider-Man movies it was also torn apart in this as well it was we have him crashing into the Washington memorial so that's the one sorry not Lincoln memorial sorry Washington memorial so it's chasing out Captain America and because Sam is trying to get him away from Washington and calm him down

[01:03:34] remove that Red Hulk vibe from him by taking him to the cherry blossoms the place where he always used to go with Betty his daughter and so you know but it doesn't work and you have this fight where effectively Thaddeus Ross destroys these lovely cherry blossoms so he won't be walking there again with Betty maybe by the time he gets out of

[01:04:04] prison they'll have grown back but I did laugh that that was one of the little things callbacks throughout the the I'd love to take a walk with you in the cherry blossoms and then by the end they're just all on fire and in bits absolutely I mean I love that they've given Falcon Wakandan technology to absorb all this power because he needs it

[01:04:40] within the mix within the vibranium the mix of having the vibranium shield and the suit having both of those things together means he's able to take on a little bit of the Hulk's power at least and the fact that as the suit absorbs the power power

[01:05:10] here of Red Hulk just really came across to me more so than how Banner's Hulk had been portrayed in say for example like Love and Thunder oh yeah yeah no but it almost undermined it here it was just that raw power of anger I stuff

[01:05:40] around here it's just this unrestrained Red Hulk the aggression has totally overtaken him he's the first powerful Hulk we've seen on cinema screens for years so it's cool to see a moment when we just see this unrestrained power absolutely and it really comes across I love that I love that within the fight sequence and I mean almost to the point as I say because we've been told that he doesn't have the serum like how is he surviving this with

[01:06:11] smarts and Wakandan technology ultimately I really like the fight and I just think it would have been really fitting that in the end you had the new Falcon and even then you know the former teammate with Bucky coming in to control this Red Hulk because Captain America has always been about the team you know as well as being

[01:06:41] in and of himself individually strong like you kind of forget you know I did say I feel like this was the discussion in the writers room we want to give Sam Wilson his moment as Captain America not not Falcon and the Winter soldier he's now Captain America it's about him being Captain America but you're right interestingly throughout the history of Captain America Steve Rogers was never really just Captain America he was Captain America and the Howling Commandos when he was in the first movie and then became the new person hired into

[01:07:11] the Avengers we had in the team in Winter soldier with the introduction of Black Panther Black Widow working right by his side all the way through that movie and then we had him with all the Avengers in Civil War and you

[01:07:44] Mark Ruffalo Hulk he's using that calming tones to soothe the savage beast even just taking him to the cherry blossoms to try and get his mind elsewhere to think about his daughter to think about the fact that he does have someone that

[01:08:14] to get the Red Hulk to go away really and it works we have the melting down of the Red Hulk into this 82 year old Harrison Ford it's a cool effect again I always love this transformation effect when they melt down

[01:08:44] the heroes that were put there by him as a result of the Sokovian Accords exactly and so yeah no that was good I like the fact that as well you have Isaiah Bradley sort of getting released yes and also getting his suit back which was a good little touch and I like those two moments with Isaiah Bradley just how Carl only performs them on screen just you know that moment

[01:09:14] when we have Sam coming in to free him finally after his massive ordeal here and just goes what took you to for him it did

[01:09:44] almost give me a bit of a tear in my eye that they realized how badly treated this character is finally is what it feels like I for many years as well

[01:10:14] I feel like Isaiah Bradley deserves a little bit of reparations at some point definitely yeah yeah and I think I like that it is neatly tied into a bow in the sense that you know Sam really does take on board what togetherness Ross was talking about around the new Avengers yeah that I like that it

[01:10:44] becomes the Falcon or Joaquin's Falcon that is the first one to be effectively invited to the new Avengers table yes absolutely I also think it's really interesting that the original offer that was put in front of Sam was do you want to form the Avengers and Sam's big complaint about it was well we'll have to answer to you Mr. President if we become the Avengers which is what we were fighting for all along right that was the

[01:11:14] big issue they didn't want to be beholden to a president they wanted to be the Avengers initiative and he actually I think he echoed Captain America I think Steve was was to set up the Avengers now President Ross is behind

[01:11:44] bars Sam is setting up the new Avengers probably with a little less oversight or a little less connection to a specific sitting president I mean I think always oversight in that there was shield but the thing is that also was a spy agency run by Hydra well exactly but I mean it but it's Nick Fury that forms the Avengers initiative yes there's Hydra

[01:12:14] infiltrated but he's their point of contact he is the one so they've always had oversight but they're with a secret service agency that kind of is outside of normal government structures and but not entirely and sometimes might need to investigate government structures when one of them happens to be a red hulk so maybe the oversight of a president that could turn into a very

[01:14:05] they are coming down the line and that's kind of it it's something that we as people who've watched all the movies and all the tv shows know that there is this other world the other multiverse that's all going on that's all out there and it is something for the heroes in this main world to be worried about um but that's the stark warning that's coming from sterns oh yeah absolutely i mean this to me is just another way of talking about incursions which was done more explicitly

[01:14:33] at the end of um multiverse of madness yeah and by incursions i mean were two universes two worlds collide together and at least in the comic books one will get wiped out and gradually to remain with just a single uh world or single universe yeah and are sometimes a patchwork i think it's a different

[01:14:58] universe yeah and i mean so i think it's another way and i like i know there's been a lot of writer's strikes and so on and so forth but i kind of wish some of these storylines would stop playing out in the movies and not be left to post-credit scenes because in some ways that's almost like one of the most interesting parts of this movie as well is that thing you know even if it you had stern talking

[01:15:27] about it all the way through the movie yeah and you know yeah but because you know again equally it feels like there's the need for a lot of reputation of stuff and themes that went in the tv in this movie because you so decide where they're playing out i think um and maybe it's part of the fault

[01:15:52] that everything is connected but i've always said that i like that idea i get it i understand it when it comes off it comes off i don't know sometimes but it can also be a bit problematic because for those who really are marvel fans you get a rinse and repeat of what happened in a tv show or you if you're comic fans and you know these terms that are being banded around it's almost like the story is being

[01:16:20] played out in these mid and post-credit scenes yeah i don't you know the argument is of course that that's exactly what happened with thanos you know we saw him for in in post-credit scenes or things indicating what happened with thanos for almost 20 movies before we got to the big moment at the end of endgame and now we're 10 movies beyond that now and a couple more uh a couple more tv shows as well so i guess yeah and also the other argument as well is you know the marvels came out

[01:16:45] over a year and a half ago um that was the last mcu movie we've had uh deadpool and wolverine that came out but that really wasn't connected to the other movies very much it was a goodbye to the fox universe uh it wasn't really part of the mcu story and there's only one more movie to go in this multiversal saga these stories that are telling different parts of the multiverse before we start getting into the build-up to uh the avengers movies so i think you're probably right i think the weight that's on a post-credit scene to set up something that's coming along

[01:17:15] may have been because brave new world wasn't as strong a movie as it could have been if brave new world was up to that level of say the winter soldier you probably wouldn't care at all about that post-credit scene probably you're probably waiting for something much bigger to happen because so much had been spoiled uh going into the cinema i mean the point is i still like the post-credit scene i like that stern is telling sam to watch out the builders because it's like you know it gets you salivating for what's to come and so on but in the same way that incursions did in multiverse of

[01:17:44] madness the same way that we've been going through this multiversal timelines heavy stuff in the mcu i really like this element and yet people are now saying we've got the last movie and they're sick to death of the multiverse stuff and yet nothing really seems to have happened in it um you know and yeah this was all set up for the yeah the next phase which is in two movies time and they've got

[01:18:11] to be careful because maybe lightning doesn't strike twice and and what they did previously with the thanos run to get to end game is not something that is easily bottleable again absolutely yeah but having said that you know again to counter my own point when it does work like with one the vision and it connects in really nicely with multiverse of madness for me yeah at least i'm not

[01:18:40] saying it was perfect but it connected into the multiverse of madness and really nicely um and it also sets up the current journey that we're on with incursions and i know again lots of water under the bridge um it seems to be a a problem of the timings haven't worked out because of external facts yes yeah i'd say that that's that's one of the diff one of the big difficulties that marvel's been

[01:19:10] hitting up against is not just writers and director strikes it is also the covid impact playing out over years it is also recasting major characters unfortunately people passing away uh other people being uh taken out of their universe like a very central character in jonathan major's um role as kang having to be completely removed luckily those those movies hadn't really come out they hadn't really set up too much

[01:19:36] so they can change gear and there's gonna be a major problem with that um but the great news is after an opening weekend that's done even better than anybody's expected for a brave new world all the naysayers that say the marvel universe is dead um maybe that's just to them maybe they just aren't people that are going to enjoy the rest of the mcu but there's lots and lots of people out there uh making this movie successful and who are willing to go out to the cinema to go and see

[01:20:01] um see marvel movies still absolutely so that's a great thing uh we're going to get more uh stories and we're going to get more tales in this uh in this cinematic universe in the future and i'm looking forward to them uh because they're definitely better than what was being delivered by sony i'll say that again oh absolutely uh john is there anything else about the movie you want to mention anything we didn't get to mention uh on the podcast here no no i think we've covered everything that i wanted to talk about very good i just want to mention uh the arrival of live tyler it was nice to see her back

[01:20:30] because she was an interesting casting back in um incredible hulk she's an actress i've always really liked she was great in the tv show the leftovers she was really good in lord of the rings loved her in that uh of course so having her back here reprising the role um was really nice for that one scene um i'm glad that it didn't just get somebody else in there or it wasn't just another phone call with her dad i'm glad it was actually her on screen that was cool uh she has reprised the role in in what if

[01:20:55] she's uh she has voiced the character and what if um in the past but it was nice to see her on screen so hopefully we do see her uh in the future again in the mcu all is forgiven uh to all the cast of uh incredible hulk except apparently ed norton i don't think he'll ever want to come back to be honest no i don't think so i think he's moved on i think he has i think he has but john do you defend

[01:21:18] captain america brave new world i do defend captain america brave new world i'd give it three red wings out of sorry red hot hulky wings out of um out of five and i thought this was a really good movie and i just think it could have done better i think it could have been an even better movie

[01:21:42] i really like anthony mackie as captain america i love the relationship that formed the with joaquin and with isaiah i really pleased for tim blake nelson to come back as the leader i really enjoy that character and yes some visuals are of him really i thought it could have the aesthetic of him

[01:22:06] could have been better for me um but i really like this character and there's really uh interesting character almost like a you know a soothsayer uh type person and and uh harrison ford i think really brought the cantankerousness of uh thaddeus ross to the hulk because i do feel you know this

[01:22:32] uncontrollable rage um not seen that for a long time in the marvel movies um with the hulk and you know yeah there are different versions but i kind of like angry hulks um i like how uncontrollable chaotic

[01:22:55] uh dangerous they are and how that messes with their hero friends um when the beast is released and i thought it came across really well with the red hulk love seeing bucky barnes in there um i think for me this movie sang with the trinity of sam wilson joaquin torres and isaiah bradley and i felt

[01:23:24] the paranoia the manchurian candidate level of paranoia that could have been brought by samuel sterns his relationship with president ross the whole confrontation with japan over adamantium could just have been ramped up that could have been the edge that this movie had like with winter

[01:23:49] soldier and i just don't think it delivered that so it is a recommend if you like captain america you're going to like captain america brave new world and i love these types of movies absolutely down for this i feel focus on captain america a bit you know just to make it as good as it can be yeah and i think they didn't necessarily do that here but all the performances were really good i think if

[01:24:19] anything it was more that jean carlo esposito's sidewinder and and shira has's ruth bat seraph and uh osha uh rockmore as agent leela taylor they almost got lost or slightly just misjudged in their roles yeah and but i think i think yes literally their scenes were caught that's all i can think

[01:24:45] um you know but otherwise yeah i do defend this uh this movie and yeah i'd give it three red hot hulky wings excellent out of five if it was super bowl night i'd say chicken wings very good very good derek do you defend um captain america brave new world i do defend this i was going in setting my expectations where i thought the movie was going to meet them um you know we've

[01:25:15] seen a lot of sam wilson um particularly as captain america we've seen a lot of it in in the falcon winter soldier tv show you know we we knew he who's going to be i felt there was a fight on screen um that he was having with himself that i had already seen and had agreed with in back in the winter soldier he is absolutely the captain america for the mcu i'm i'm totally on board with that i love anthony mackie so i felt like him having to retread that ground even in the small way that he

[01:25:42] had to in the movie was unfair to the character and to anthony mackie i hope that's it that's the end of the conversation we don't have to do it again in the future um he's now the leader of the new avengers so he doesn't have to question himself in the future um it felt unusual i suppose there is the old adage of uh leave them wanting more if you create good entertainment leave them wanting more right um yeah and i want more i want more of all the characters that have uh seen scenes cut i want

[01:26:10] more absolutely of other characters in the mcu coming in here um one thing that i that kept going through my head it being a sequel to the incredible hulk and us having that scene in she hulk of mark ruffalo trying to get tatiana mizlany to accept her time as the hulk it being totally uncontrollable well maybe he should have done that with ross maybe we should have had a moment where we have

[01:26:34] mark ruffalo's bruce banner talking to ross about what it's like to be the new hulk and calming him down and bring him off to his island getaway in in hawaii you know doing that little comedy moment at the end that that's where he goes instead of going to the raft you know that would have been a nice little tie into some of the tv shows again you know something that we did watch and did really enjoy it would be great to see mark ruffalo there um to help calm down the hulk because i'm not

[01:27:00] totally sold on how that final scene worked when we have a completely new angry red hulk being calmed down by sam i know it worked for black widow calming down the hulk who'd been calmed down many many times before but i'm not sure how it worked in that fight sequence that we just saw for three or four minutes at the end my only other big complaint really is about how much was revealed ahead of time

[01:27:24] i know you gotta market a movie but for once here i think they went way too far with telling us who was going to be in it and revealing last 10 minutes of the movie scenes um is it just to get younger people who aren't sitting in the cinema to watch a two-hour movie is to get them in there to actually watch all those scenes is that what happens you have to tell them what happens at the end of the movie to get them to sit there for the whole movie is that the way it works i don't know um but it was

[01:27:53] too much it was too much was revealed i was waiting the entire movie for the red hulk and i didn't come to the end i was waiting the entire movie for live title to appear and she didn't come until uh one line at the end of the movie so i i think they need to sort that out for the next for the next one but maybe they don't they had they took in 200 million dollars um internationally over the first weekend this movie opened so that's pretty good numbers uh to do in your opening weekend i think second

[01:28:19] highest of all the captain america movies yeah that's what i saw um so maybe i'm completely wrong and i'm glad there's people out there that are enjoying the movie and enjoying uh going to see this in the cinema i definitely enjoyed my time with it i want to see it again i can't wait to see it again um but maybe i was just a little bit disappointed that so much was revealed before i went into the cinema it's like it's like reading the book and then going to see the adaptation in the cinema almost but that's it for our thoughts and our defense and let's go over to

[01:28:48] our feedback from our wonderful fellow defenders first up we got an email in from coffee and vodka who says greetings fellow foul following defenders a really good movie that could have been better and i'd like to have seen the cut before the test audience has prompted the powers that be to send it into reshoots this especially considering that 54 of that audience might consider bad anyway all the usual great action direction acting and mid writing which announced twists and removed consequences big

[01:29:14] pluses adamantium a decent leader foreshadowing of battle world sam's second costume and acknowledgement of the big baby sticking up out of the ocean my mvp giancarlo esposito sidewinder who was yours an all right start to a great cinematic year looking forward to superman fantastic four and the thunderbolts 3.5 whiskey shots betty lace the nevers and parked fords out of five peace and take care

[01:29:39] coffee and vodka fantastic coffee vodka excellent coffee and vodka love the betty late the nevers perfect uh perfect uh stuff there um my mvp i'm gonna say a whacking the new falcon um probably could have been a higher mvp if he had actually stayed on the field of play for uh the full movie yeah but i i really really uh enjoyed him and sam's sort of pitter patter um and i i enjoyed that from

[01:30:10] from the tv show as well so i'm glad that this kind of crossed over into into the movie for sure yeah my mvp isaiah bradley um absolutely brilliant i think every time uh carl umd he was on screen he was great he was great in the tv show and great to have him back here the real heart of the movie for me absolutely loved him and i mean like yourself you know having adamantium um the and what that

[01:30:32] tells us for x-men and uh the wolverine in in the mcu really good and i agree i think you know a decent leader here i really enjoyed his propelling of this storyline and i hope he comes back actually i could really see him um in another movie actually tim black narson yeah and whilst um he's in the raft

[01:31:01] um you know i'm sure he's seen the probabilities and knows when he'll escape i presume when uh red hulk has has about his first bad prison meal yeah you'll just have him uh whispering to him like uh like um hannibal lecter did to meeks yeah exactly in sounds of the lands um he's been whispering to him today for days maybe that'll be the way it'll go uh great stuff thanks coffee and vodka

[01:31:25] yeah thanks coffee and vodka uh over on facebook we got some feedback as well first up claire owens who says just came out of the cinema it was okay a lot of little easter eggs but the end credit scene left me like yeah well we know all that um i'm kind of with you there claire to be honest and certainly that was my uh initial thought coming out the cinema was you know that was grand um and yeah i mean

[01:31:51] with the end credit yeah let's just get there please and have it's going three movies telling the story and first time ever i'm really looking forward to the fantastic four because i know that's going to propel that storyline forward yeah um because it's it's fresh in the door yeah i'm quietly hopeful for the fantastic four but i was very hopeful for fans four stick and uh that was very

[01:32:21] disappointing very disappointing exactly this is a very different one and it's at the fce so all good thanks claire for your thoughts uh felipe over on facebook as well says had a good experience overall yeah the effects look lazy sometimes you can clearly see that the reshoot scenes feel weird but the movie was used to fix some loose ends from previous movies the incredible hulk and eternals for

[01:32:45] example anti mackie is great as captain america danny ramirez is charming harrison ford is harrison ford in a marvel movie i liked giancarlo esposito's character even though he only interacted with anti mackie and then vanished in act three it made me smile and have so much fun so for me captain america 4 brave new stars out of five very good ps hated the villains look excellent felipe totally with

[01:33:15] you on that it looked like he had smallpox or something on the head and the green hue to him just yeah didn't i i didn't like the look either um for sure so with you on that felipe but i love the leader for sure i think as well he was kind of like a gray silvery green he was yeah and not even like green green i know but a little nod to all the different colors of all the uh of all the different

[01:33:42] um hulk's i wonder whether it was a touch of his mr blue coming in there was kind of a blue green i guess so i guess so but yeah no um loved the leader loved the character actually adore tim blake nelson i know yeah um but yeah the look the aesthetic just didn't uh do it for me yeah very good uh thanks felipe i did mention earlier on about that scene with sebastian stan talking to anthony mackie being a

[01:34:09] cool scene but being filmed in isolation yes the giancarlo esposito scenes uh with anthony mackie i think they were also filmed in isolation um yeah rumor has it um well we know definitely that seth rollins the wwe wrestler was supposed to be in the movie he was originally supposed to be cast as sidewinder who is the character that eventually giancarlo esposito played and so he was removed from the movie i don't i'm not sure but i think that means that giancarlo esposito scenes were all

[01:34:38] refilmed scenes that were originally uh done by seth rollins so um that adds a lot of extra weight when you have a wwe star he is a star in the wwe but he's not someone that has been seen in movies very often so this character of sidewinder played by seth rollins wouldn't have had as much weight as he has when it's giancarlo esposito um i think yeah absolutely totally agree on that but the good

[01:35:06] news is that they've been trying to get giancarlo esposito in the mcu for a very long time so um likely we'll actually see the character of sidewinder again in a big project in the future that'd be great yeah definitely excellent stuff thanks so much for that felipe we also got some feedback in from sandra senders who said it was good but i didn't love it anthony mackie was great of course but the story just seemed disjointed giancarlo esposito's role was underwhelming the leader looked terrible harrison ford and red hulk were great i did enjoy it but i'll probably never watch it again

[01:35:35] like i haven't rewatched any of the mcu movies since endgame with the exception of deadpool and wolverine my favorite scene was the gym scene with sam isaiah and joaquin it made so much sense that sam would train with isaiah and i loved their chemistry thanks sandy i totally agree with that yes sam isaiah and joaquin together fantastic really enjoyed that as well sandy weirdly i'm probably on the other side of it with the mcu the odmcu movie i haven't haven't rewatched since endgame is

[01:36:03] deadpool wolverine i can't find a day that i want to rewatch that um but i'll definitely stick on most of the other movies just in the background as i always have done yeah and me too um but i i can see to some degree you know as i say it's a question of what what were they doing i mean unless it's your own personal fandom like multiverse of madness for me yeah but but again it that's to me where

[01:36:30] doctor strange is treated as that character and taken through i mean i know you know like captain america where there's almost that own little trilogy exactly or trilogy happening in these bigger films so it's kind of also contained and that was always great about the original trilogy um of captain america uh it's just how nicely contained it was for captain america but ultimately brought in then the wider

[01:36:58] cinematic universe through civil war absolutely so it was just so expertly done yeah um and yeah so i i do see where sandy's coming from for sure but yeah really good point um you know that the leader looked terrible uh did look like sort of carton of eggs on his head or something um anyway thanks

[01:37:23] andy absolutely michael carrier says uh solid marvel movie experience for me the final fight with red hulk had me jumping in my seat i had no idea how the heck captain was going to put red hulk down i think sam's long-term movie franchise credibility as captain america he had to defeat red hulk alone but him doing the talking down gave the moth the moment vibes from batman and superman

[01:37:50] i think it should have been the president's daughter four and a half out of five i hope bookie took the wakandan laboratory's extended warranty plan option when he purchased sam's wings yes i avoided all previews and trailers for this movie so went in spoiler free oh good man michael

[01:38:12] carrier that is the way to do it said punch to judy i guess that's why he did it um for sure try and remain spoiler free um because yeah the red hulk was a massive spoiler um i i but like when we were buying our food before going in there was a bucket the popcorn bucket was the red hulk the poster going in the door was was the red hulk like it was just because it was so pervading it wasn't even um

[01:38:40] just in the trailers it was like they want you to know the red hulk's in this movie if you just wait around long enough you'll get to see him for five minutes at the end just before we go to credits um absolutely that was my that was more of my problem but i'm glad it didn't spoil your experience absolutely and i'm really pleased um you like the final fight because i i think i did too i really liked the power that the red hulk portrayed and how vulnerable sam felt and i totally get it you know

[01:39:09] he needed to to defeat him alone but i do think there is an idea behind captain america that certainly from the steve rogers era but also within the comic books he is part of a wider team or leads that wider team um and i think with the new avengers element um here i think you could have

[01:39:34] had joaquin maybe bucky coming in but i totally get where you're coming from for sure but there's even a moment on the battlefield at the end where you see ruth batsaraf and sam wilson and lila taylor beside each other you see the three of them all there and i think there's one other person as well and that you see from the movie and they're all supposed to be teaming up with sam it's like as if they were all supposed to have a big part in the fight and then they went no actually we'll just

[01:39:58] keep this to captain america versus red hulk it is a decision whether in the editing room or the writing one or the other um probably both that they wanted it to be captain america versus red hulk in the end of this movie um but yeah i there's definitely more there um that we haven't seen and we may never see unfortunately um but a good movie overall absolutely yeah thanks so much michael for your feedback really good to get your thoughts and of course everyone else who sent in

[01:40:27] their feedback for captain america brave new world absolutely not long to wait until we're back at the cinema again we'll be going back to the cinema on may 2nd for the next mcu movie thunderbolts asterix which don't forget of course does feature the winter soldier and the other captain america boo john walker wow that's true yeah well does it feature the winter soldier or does it feature

[01:40:52] senator bucky it does feature senator bucky i guess but we've seen him there's there's a new thing we've seen the trailer we know we know we will see him in action in there winter wolf winter wolf winter wolf but knowing marvel now that might be the last five minutes of the movie that they put into the trailer so maybe i should stop watching trailers yeah but as i said that is the final movie in phase five the multiverse saga continues and goes on to phase six so uh maybe that is the

[01:41:20] reason for the asterix in the thunderbolts asterix that it's the end of uh of phase five or maybe it's not going to be called it's thunderbolts it's going to be called um senator bucky barnes's team doesn't just roll off the tongue it doesn't yeah it really doesn't but if you do want more podcasts more stuff to listen to we are we are covering invincible the third season is available coming out weekly on prime video myself and chris are covering those episodes as they come out each week

[01:41:50] and the other big one that we'll be covering coming out from the start of march is daredevil after 10 years covering the mcu we will be returning to what started it all for us which was daredevil on tv definitely yeah no i can't wait for the return of daredevil as well really really looking forward to that um yeah it should be great fun so it should be great fun and of course loads of other stuff as

[01:42:14] well over on tv podcast industries um such as wheel of time oh yes wheeling its way in so uh please uh subscribe to the podcast on any good or evil podcast catcher of your choice you can do that through our website at tv podcast industries dot com and of course please remember to subscribe

[01:42:39] there and to share the podcast because of sharing the podcast is of course sharing the love yes it is thanks once again for joining us for another wonderful marvel movie and a great podcast hopefully uh you enjoyed it thanks once again for joining us for our podcast all about captain america brave new world another mcu movie uh in the books john yes absolutely good stuff thanks fellow defenders for

[01:43:03] joining us as always until the next movie which is very soon indeed keep watching keep listening and don't get killed no dying copy that bye bye now you're a lot of people tend to believe but i'm gonna tell you what to believe you you