Assembled Agatha All Along

[00:00:00] This is The Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We're back with Agatha All Along to discuss the making of and announce our Cauldron Coven Quiz winner.

[00:00:08] It was so much bigger than we anticipated. And then when I came back to Marvel and started developing some ideas for different shows, every show concept I had, had an Agatha piece to it. You know, no matter what character or what world, there was always, you know. And then in episode 104, Agatha comes in and Kevin finally said, should we be doing a show?

[00:00:29] Based on Agatha? And then it became, why aren't we doing a show based on Agatha?

[00:01:06] Welcome back fellow Defenders to TV Podcast Industries. We're back with Agatha All Along, wrapping it up, talking about the assembled making of Agatha All Along and announcing our Cauldron Coven Quiz winner. I am one of your hosts, Derek.

[00:01:18] Hello there fellow Defenders. I am your other host, John.

[00:01:23] And I am the teen. I mean, Chris, I wish I was a teen. It's been very, many, many years since I was a teen. But I still have the boyish good looks. Well, at least I'm told I do. I think they might be lying now.

[00:01:38] Yes, it does indicate how much younger you are than us, but you're definitely not a teen, Chris.

[00:01:43] But I could be. I think that's the thing.

[00:01:45] Yeah, younger.

[00:01:46] It's like...

[00:01:47] But more wrinkles.

[00:01:48] Yes. I could be a singer, but I'm not. I could be a teen, but I'm not.

[00:01:54] If you shaved, you could do that Beverly Hills 90210 thing where you pretend like you look like a teen even though you're in your 30s.

[00:02:01] Yeah, exactly.

[00:02:02] Yeah.

[00:02:03] It's difficult to know because you've got mostly facial hair.

[00:02:07] See, everything under the facial hair is actually not even there. It's just like pure jawbone.

[00:02:12] He has no jawbone.

[00:02:14] Well, that's a bit creepy. Welcome back fellow Defenders to Agatha All Along.

[00:02:18] And we are once again joined by Chris.

[00:02:19] We are going to talk about our final opinions on Agatha All Along, wrap it up later on.

[00:02:23] And we are going to talk about the assembled documentary, The Making of Agatha All Along, which weirdly was only released on YouTube, not released on Disney+.

[00:02:32] This is the first time that Marvel made this decision.

[00:02:35] It's so weird.

[00:02:35] Yeah.

[00:02:36] Maybe they don't want their platform anymore.

[00:02:39] No, I will say, including our official TV podcast industry's account from the minute Agatha All Along finished,

[00:02:46] everybody that I saw was posting to the Marvel accounts going, post the making of Agatha All Along as soon as possible.

[00:02:52] If you're not going to announce the second season, we want the making of immediately.

[00:02:56] And then almost as if they were just pissed off with the fans requesting it, they responded to one fan's request going, right, there you go.

[00:03:05] It's on YouTube right now.

[00:03:06] And it just was unceremoniously made available for everybody.

[00:03:10] But it is odd because even Deadpool and Wolverine that came out this year, that got its making of.

[00:03:16] The assembled documentary for that was released the day that was released on Disney+.

[00:03:20] So I just think it's a bit odd the way they've released it.

[00:03:23] I have a theory.

[00:03:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:25] We'll never know.

[00:03:27] But I have a feeling it's the audience for Agatha, I think, actually skewed younger to the more kind of TikTok teen generation.

[00:03:39] And I think they might have got some of the highest numbers versus the standard kind of Hawkeye kind of echo numbers.

[00:03:48] I think they may have seen exponentially bigger there.

[00:03:51] We know the ballad went kind of viral on YouTube.

[00:03:55] Absolutely.

[00:03:55] The song went viral.

[00:03:56] The TikTok went viral.

[00:03:58] Not the dance, but the song being used on TikTok went viral.

[00:04:01] Well, I'm literally wondering if it was like, do you know what?

[00:04:06] A lot of the kids are not going to watch it on Disney+.

[00:04:10] They might watch it on making of on small chunks on YouTube.

[00:04:17] So here you go.

[00:04:19] Yeah, but it's weird that it's the first one they've done that with and they have the platform.

[00:04:22] They should still have released it on Disney+.

[00:04:24] If all the other ones are available on their YouTube channel as well.

[00:04:28] But it's just not being made available on Disney+.

[00:04:30] I think it's just the one or the other element.

[00:04:31] I mean, maybe it will go on Disney+.

[00:04:33] Or it's a test.

[00:04:34] It could be a test.

[00:04:35] Literally, it could be a what's the number like here?

[00:04:38] What's the number like over there?

[00:04:39] Yeah, I guess so.

[00:04:40] But it would feel weird that Marvel, a media company, wouldn't be like meteoring it to hell.

[00:04:48] Yeah.

[00:04:50] They put trailers on YouTube.

[00:04:52] Why not unassembled?

[00:04:54] They've got a Marvel channel on YouTube.

[00:04:56] So why not?

[00:04:57] But everybody that watched Agatha Long would have watched it on Disney+, because you had to have Disney+.

[00:05:01] So you put your making of on there like they've done for every single show, including Echo, a five-episode show that was dropped in one day.

[00:05:07] They even did an assembled for that and put it on Disney+.

[00:05:10] So I just find it really odd.

[00:05:13] But we'll, of course, talk in detail about the Assemble documentary, as we always do in our wrap-up podcast.

[00:05:17] But I think we should get down to the Cauldron Coven Quiz.

[00:05:21] Get down to our local Cauldron.

[00:05:23] And have a drink and give out the answers to our Cauldron Coven Quiz, John.

[00:05:27] Let's just get to the squeaky Cauldron in our pub for this quiz.

[00:05:31] Yes.

[00:05:32] Welcome, fellow quizzers and defenders.

[00:05:36] It is answers time for the Cauldron Coven Quiz for this season of Agatha all along.

[00:05:46] Yes, it is.

[00:05:47] I have to say congratulations to all of the correct entries that we got in.

[00:05:51] This is definitely the most entries that we've got in for a pub quiz that we've done on TV Podcast Industries.

[00:05:57] We're mostly doing them on our Marvel shows.

[00:05:59] And we know this show has hit really hard with our listeners.

[00:06:02] And our listeners really have enjoyed the show a lot.

[00:06:04] But thank you so much to everybody who put the answers.

[00:06:07] Thank you so much to everybody who put your entries in.

[00:06:10] I think we have the most correct answers as well.

[00:06:11] We have 20 correct entries in here, which is the most we've had, I think, so far.

[00:06:15] I think previously the most we had was 18.

[00:06:17] So, yeah, well done.

[00:06:18] And to those of you who just entered and didn't get all the answers into us or didn't get some of the answers right,

[00:06:23] thanks so much for at least coming along with us on the wonderful Coven Quiz.

[00:06:26] Absolutely.

[00:06:27] Always good to have a good old pub quiz.

[00:06:31] Absolutely.

[00:06:31] Absolutely.

[00:06:32] Let's kick it off with the first question.

[00:06:34] From Agatha all along episode one, the question was,

[00:06:37] two names are revealed on the toe tag in the morgue, W Maximoff and A Harkness.

[00:06:41] But what dates are beside each name?

[00:06:44] The answer for that was Wanda Maximoff was October 13th and Agatha Harkness was January 21st.

[00:06:50] We called it a toe tag.

[00:06:51] Actually, we were wrong.

[00:06:52] It is the library card that was in the Darkhold is what that was.

[00:06:59] So, yeah, we didn't put that together in the first episode.

[00:07:02] And I didn't spend much time thinking about it because it was our pub quiz question.

[00:07:05] But afterwards, I was going, well, of course it was because it was her going to the library to find the library book that had disappeared.

[00:07:10] So, yeah, October 13th and January 21st.

[00:07:13] Those dates are connected to when the shows aired because Agatha all along was airing during October and WandaVision was airing during January.

[00:07:22] Not exactly the dates, but that's what they're connected to.

[00:07:25] That's cool.

[00:07:26] Next up, question number two from episode number two.

[00:07:31] How would a payment to second Lilia Caldra appear on your bank account?

[00:07:36] The answer is Lilia's leggings because it's a side hustle.

[00:07:40] Exactly.

[00:07:40] Yes.

[00:07:41] I do like that.

[00:07:42] That was a good one.

[00:07:42] I like that she specifically pointed out to the team because you might get worried who had Lilia's leggings on as a bank statement.

[00:07:49] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:07:50] On to question three from episode three.

[00:07:54] What is the name, year, and type of wine that the Coven drink for trial number one?

[00:08:03] The answer is the name of the bottle is the Reina.

[00:08:07] The year is 2016 and it is a Crianza Rioja.

[00:08:11] It is, yeah.

[00:08:12] Reina meaning...

[00:08:12] Love Riojas.

[00:08:13] Yeah.

[00:08:14] Yeah.

[00:08:14] Reina meaning queen and Rioja is a red.

[00:08:16] So it's red queen.

[00:08:17] This was one of the early ones that people thought was an indication we'd be seeing Scarlet Witch, our red queen from MCU, which turned out to be wrong.

[00:08:27] Just a scarlet wine.

[00:08:29] And also, this is the one I was saying to you about that we got a bit of feedback that says some people watch the show on their phones.

[00:08:35] So pausing it to guess three different things from the label on wine was very difficult for those people watching on their phones.

[00:08:41] I like to think the quiz is challenging.

[00:08:44] Yes, or making you watch the TV.

[00:08:46] Not just cerebrally, but also physically.

[00:08:49] Yes, yes.

[00:08:50] On to question number four for episode number four.

[00:08:52] What three instruments does Lilia play in the Rock Covens version of the ballad?

[00:08:57] She plays the zils, the triangle, and the maracas.

[00:09:02] She also holds a tambourine at the end.

[00:09:04] So she is holding four instruments.

[00:09:06] We see her playing three.

[00:09:07] If you had any three of those four, we gave you the correct answer as well.

[00:09:12] You're being too nice, boys.

[00:09:13] Gotta be.

[00:09:14] Gotta be.

[00:09:15] When some questions are too difficult that some people didn't get them at all, we'll give other people a little bit of stretch.

[00:09:21] Okay, on to question number five from episode five.

[00:09:24] What age does the teen say you need to be to play Parker Brothers Ouija board?

[00:09:30] The answer is three and up.

[00:09:32] So unfortunately, I'm out.

[00:09:34] I see him.

[00:09:35] Just I'm out.

[00:09:37] I haven't reset crucial age yet, at least mentally.

[00:09:40] Well, our godson will soon be able to play with Ouija board, Chris.

[00:09:44] Yes.

[00:09:45] Which I find mental.

[00:09:47] I know.

[00:09:47] I know.

[00:09:48] It isn't the same as on the actual Parker Brothers game that is an in-joke that was in there, just to say it.

[00:09:54] Excellent stuff.

[00:09:55] On to question six.

[00:09:59] What is the name of William Kaplan's barking dog?

[00:10:03] Hmm.

[00:10:04] Greg.

[00:10:04] Greg.

[00:10:05] Yeah, I just, I always like animals named after human names.

[00:10:10] You know, not cold, not cold brownie or something.

[00:10:13] You know.

[00:10:13] Cold fire day.

[00:10:14] Greg.

[00:10:16] Like that.

[00:10:17] On to episode seven.

[00:10:18] On episode seven, the divination trial.

[00:10:21] In that, what does the writing on the edge of the tarot tabletop say?

[00:10:25] It says, your path winds out of time.

[00:10:28] A little indication that Lilia was going to pass by the end of that episode.

[00:10:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:10:33] Excellent.

[00:10:33] Next up for episode number eight, question number eight.

[00:10:37] How long has Billy been gone from his home when he returns to his parents?

[00:10:41] The answer is a whopping 24 hours.

[00:10:44] Mm-hmm.

[00:10:45] Whole day.

[00:10:47] You, 24 countdown.

[00:10:50] Do-do-do.

[00:10:50] Do-do.

[00:10:51] They could have the countdown clock on the side as they go through each of the challenges.

[00:10:54] But yeah, they went through four challenges, multiple deaths, all in 24 hours.

[00:10:58] I know.

[00:10:58] Well, time moves differently, you see, on the witch's road.

[00:11:01] It does, especially when it's created by William.

[00:11:04] By Billy.

[00:11:05] The final question, John?

[00:11:07] Yes.

[00:11:07] Final question from episode nine.

[00:11:10] How many covens do we see Agatha take out with the con of the witch's road following the death of Nicholas?

[00:11:19] The answer is four.

[00:11:21] Yes.

[00:11:22] Hundreds, probably.

[00:11:23] He is a serial killer.

[00:11:25] Yeah, but she probably did kill hundreds over the time, but we see four on screen as they go through that.

[00:11:30] Yeah, as I mentioned, we have 20 correct entries.

[00:11:33] Those entries came in from Adam Downing, Dr. Bob Phillips, Heather Sass, Cody Mellinger, The Joyful Baker, Denise LaFleurio, Jorge, Keith Murray, Diane Shaw, Josephine Pruz, Will Walton, Brendan Bueller, Sana Samu, Anthony Davis, Christopher Collinson, Alina Marino, Lisa Winrich, Connie LaBreda, Philip Provencio, and Isadora Meyer.

[00:11:55] Yeah, thank you so much to all of you for getting your correct answers.

[00:11:58] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:11:58] Well done, fellow defenders.

[00:12:01] It's really good to see a nice big batch of you up for the e-tombola that we will run you through, or Chris will run you through.

[00:12:13] Absolutely.

[00:12:13] Yes, I personally will run you all through that e-tombola.

[00:12:17] And by doing that, I usually start by saying, hey, Google, randomly select a number between 0 and 20.

[00:12:28] Here's a random number.

[00:12:29] 18.

[00:12:30] 18.

[00:12:32] That's Connie LaBreda.

[00:12:33] Congratulations, Connie.

[00:12:35] Absolutely.

[00:12:36] Congratulations, Connie, for winning the Agatha Cauldron Pub Quiz.

[00:12:42] Absolutely.

[00:12:43] I'll be reaching out to you in the next couple of days to find out where you are, what part of the world, and then we'll be able to send out some Agatha all along goodies to you.

[00:12:51] Part of that is because I don't know where everybody lives.

[00:12:55] I should really ask everybody for their address when they're emailing it to us, because then I can choose the goodies before I get in contact with everybody.

[00:13:00] But I have my eye on a few Agatha all along things from different parts of the world.

[00:13:04] Yes, you do.

[00:13:06] Well done, Connie, again.

[00:13:08] And a big well done to all of you who sent in your answers to the pub quiz for this season of Agatha.

[00:13:19] Absolutely.

[00:13:19] Yeah.

[00:13:19] More quizzes coming next year, 2025.

[00:13:23] It's going to be good.

[00:13:25] Fantastic.

[00:13:26] So those will be winging their way to you as soon as possible.

[00:13:28] Obviously, with the time of year, it might take a little bit of time to get them out to your address, but I'll be in contact with you as soon as I possibly can.

[00:13:35] Guys, I think we need to talk about Assembled, the making of Agatha all along and Agatha all along itself.

[00:13:42] Chris, you missed out on the last few episodes of Agatha all along.

[00:13:44] Overall, what did you think of the series?

[00:13:46] It was one of my favorites of all the MCU properties, and especially as a follow-up sequel to WandaVision.

[00:13:57] In the same instance, it is also an origin story in its own right.

[00:14:03] So I don't want to say it was a pure sequel.

[00:14:06] It was also its own thing.

[00:14:10] I would strongly give it a strong, like if I was to grade, it would be that 8 out of 10 range.

[00:14:17] And for me, one of the slight, and Derek and I discussed this offline, how they decided to do that ending in terms of, I wasn't unhappy with it.

[00:14:28] Because again, using that last episode to show the true truth behind the ballad of the road, the witch's road.

[00:14:40] And to be fair, the truth and real history behind Agatha, I felt that could have been almost, the last episode could have been not swapped, but maybe edited slightly differently.

[00:14:56] It just felt very, I want to say hard cut.

[00:15:02] Right.

[00:15:02] Which is, we went from one episode, and it was like, it was almost that standard Marvel kind of ending where you have two people of the same powers fight.

[00:15:12] Yeah.

[00:15:13] Now they did it slightly differently.

[00:15:14] Mm-hmm.

[00:15:15] Like they didn't do a power versus power, boom, boom, boom, done.

[00:15:20] Mm-hmm.

[00:15:21] They did slightly, but not to the same extent as say like Secret Invasion.

[00:15:25] Yeah.

[00:15:26] Um, yeah.

[00:15:27] See, remember when I said that?

[00:15:29] Uh-huh.

[00:15:29] But I just feel it then went from that to like, almost like a screeching halt.

[00:15:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:15:36] And then you're going into a different timeline.

[00:15:38] I enjoyed it, and I felt the revelations made up for it, but it was a bit of that narrative.

[00:15:45] It blush, because you're going from a crescendo of a finale, which was episode eight, and then to episode nine, which still a finale, but almost like an epilogue, if you will.

[00:15:58] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:15:59] I felt like that, that it just felt a bit narratively.

[00:16:03] So maybe the editing could have changed it and would have made it even stronger.

[00:16:08] However, that being said, it was still well told.

[00:16:14] Like, I think, well done to Derek for guessing the twist, be it that it is.

[00:16:21] Yeah.

[00:16:22] Um, and I think that's a huge thing, because I wholeheartedly thought you were bonkers for what you were saying.

[00:16:31] I was like, no!

[00:16:32] That Billy had created the road.

[00:16:33] It was all from his mind.

[00:16:35] Yeah.

[00:16:35] I did say on the podcast, I'm only repeating because you're here, Chris, but I did say on the podcast that, um, I think that's great writing.

[00:16:42] If anybody can guess the show, it shouldn't be about not being able to guess.

[00:16:47] They put the clues there, and we put it together, because we're podcasting about it every week.

[00:16:51] And there's nothing wrong with that, doesn't it?

[00:16:52] No.

[00:16:52] I don't want them to have mystery boxes that just come out of absolutely nowhere when they get the answers out there.

[00:16:57] So I'm delighted I was able to guess it, because that's good writing.

[00:17:01] I'm delighted with that.

[00:17:01] And it has been a few weeks since Agatha Long aired and aired its finale.

[00:17:06] So Jack Schafer's been on the full press tour.

[00:17:08] She's had loads of discussions about the decisions that they made on the show.

[00:17:12] One of the things she said that was always in her plan when she got the call to do the Agatha Long series was that she wanted to have the second last episode be the battle.

[00:17:23] And their version of the battle is obviously Agatha versus Death or Rio.

[00:17:27] They wanted to have that as the second last episode and do the last episode with that explanation of how Agatha got from that point to here.

[00:17:35] So that was always in the plan.

[00:17:37] But interestingly, she said that they were going to end the series with eight episodes.

[00:17:41] And I don't think it would be the same cliffhanger where Billy realizes and he sees the ghost behind him, and that would be it.

[00:17:46] I think it would be extended slightly.

[00:17:48] And then they were going to drop this episode of this.

[00:17:51] And then they were going to drop that final episode with Agatha Harkness and her son.

[00:17:55] And they were going to drop that a few weeks later, like the way they did with Sandman.

[00:17:59] It was just going to be that segment of it showing Agatha in the past going all the way back to the Witch's Road.

[00:18:06] And that would be a completely separate episode dropping a few weeks or a few months after Agatha dropped.

[00:18:11] So I think that was quite interesting.

[00:18:13] I prefer that we got them both on the same day, to be honest.

[00:18:17] But interesting, that was always kind of in her plan, that she never wanted to end the show with the big battle.

[00:18:21] Because, again, as was criticized in She-Hulk and as Deadpool has had a stab at, that tended to become the MCU idea.

[00:18:31] There's a build-up and a build-up, and then you have a big battle at the end, and people just punch each other, and that's the end of the show.

[00:18:36] So she didn't want that.

[00:18:37] I feel that Jack Schafer's really made a name for herself in now almost doing what I want to call the OG Jon Favreau Marvel kind of piece.

[00:18:53] In that Jon Favreau took what was your B-list Avengers in the day and made them.

[00:19:06] Like, you had your Iron Man, your Thor, and Captain America, and the Guardians of the Galaxy.

[00:19:13] Back in the day, these were not your top-tier A-list kind of properties.

[00:19:20] Not at all.

[00:19:20] Like, that was your Hulk, your Fantastic Four, and your Spider-Man.

[00:19:25] Like, those were the names days.

[00:19:26] All the ones they'd sold off to the studio space.

[00:19:28] Exactly, yes.

[00:19:29] The Sony properties, Fox properties.

[00:19:32] What I think Jack Schafer's done is taken Iatha and Wiccan and really built them narratively into a space where I think,

[00:19:44] like, I'm really interested to see, like, you could give me a Monster of the Week building of Agatha and Wiccan going on a journey to find other people and the other young Avengers,

[00:19:58] and they have to battle.

[00:20:00] It's like a supernatural spin where they have to battle some demons every couple of weeks.

[00:20:06] And with enough of that banter and narrative and the dialogue that they built now over this season,

[00:20:12] plus everything we know about Agatha from season one, that's interesting.

[00:20:17] Like, that is something I'd sit down, and that would be my kind of pay-per-view viewing.

[00:20:25] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:20:25] Well, that's it.

[00:20:27] I think the whole magical side of the Marvel, I guess, TV and cinematic, it feels like that's got the most options.

[00:20:38] Yeah.

[00:20:38] Or has maybe consistently just been kind of developed through the phases in this kind of, you know, after Avengers,

[00:20:48] with having, you know, WandaVision, Agatha all along, but also having their multiverse of madness.

[00:20:55] Even, I guess, the Eternals with that sort of end credit scene with the Black Knight and all that.

[00:21:02] Again, it's all fairly, like, there's options there.

[00:21:06] You know, a sandbox to play in, and I think that's what's really good.

[00:21:10] And I totally agree with you, Chris.

[00:21:11] Because I think Jack Schaefer has done a really good job here in the TV with WandaVision and now with Agatha all along.

[00:21:21] Absolutely.

[00:21:22] And I think they're immensely rewatchable as well, these shows, which is really good.

[00:21:28] Like, I could quite easily go back to WandaVision again and to the start of Agatha all along.

[00:21:34] So I think that's really, really good from them.

[00:21:37] It's such a shame that she's not going to be involved in the Vision show, Vision Quest or whatever it's going to be called.

[00:21:45] Interestingly, Terry Metallus is the person who's been tapped to direct that, who did Star Trek Picard.

[00:21:51] Yeah.

[00:21:52] Which was really good, especially that third season, which he was helming.

[00:21:55] So that'll be really interesting to see what he brings to Vision.

[00:21:58] But I wonder, will they reincorporate now that Agatha has been quite successful?

[00:22:02] I wonder, will they incorporate Agatha and the story of Wiccan and Agatha looking for Tommy?

[00:22:08] That would be interesting as a separate storyline within the Vision Quest show.

[00:22:12] While Vision goes on his quest, his son's also gone on his quest to find his other son, you know.

[00:22:17] That could be quite interesting.

[00:22:18] I wonder what she's working on now.

[00:22:20] We don't know.

[00:22:21] We don't know.

[00:22:22] But we'll talk about it a little bit more during the documentary bit when we're talking about the Assembled.

[00:22:28] Because there's some interesting discussion about how she came on board for Agatha all along, I think.

[00:22:33] Overall, though, Chris, was there any episodes particularly that stood out?

[00:22:36] Especially ones that you didn't get to talk about with us?

[00:22:39] For me, actually, it is the, and we'll get into it in the Assembled, the actual, the last two.

[00:22:45] So, costume design across the last actual three, because you have the tower trial, then you have actual Wiccan's costume, his actual uniform, his creation to Wiccan, I want to call it that, or that kind of superhero costume.

[00:23:05] He had Agatha's power-up and that changing costume that gives her.

[00:23:11] Rio being Rio, Lady Death.

[00:23:13] The use of practical prosthetics there.

[00:23:16] Oof.

[00:23:17] Amazing.

[00:23:18] And then, actually, the transfer, or the traveling through time in that final ballad of The Witch's Road,

[00:23:27] where you see how it's evolved, the song, and you see Agatha singing it throughout the ages, and it changing each chorus and each piece,

[00:23:39] slowly changing the words slightly as it's updated, as it's tweaked and changed.

[00:23:46] Just so powerful.

[00:23:48] Yeah.

[00:23:49] And again, we're going to get through this in the Assembled.

[00:23:51] Those are the three that are the strongest for me, beyond the first episode.

[00:23:56] Yeah.

[00:23:57] Which I felt, the first episode for me was, looking back on it now, the bridge between WandaVision and what the show was going to be.

[00:24:08] Yeah.

[00:24:09] And that worked for what it is.

[00:24:11] Now I'm looking at what the show was.

[00:24:13] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:13] The last three were the strongest for me.

[00:24:16] Yeah.

[00:24:16] Yeah.

[00:24:17] And I think, for me, the storytelling in episode seven was fantastic.

[00:24:21] Lily's trial.

[00:24:22] That's my, yeah.

[00:24:23] Yeah.

[00:24:23] I thought that was brilliantly told, and something that could be, that kind of style of storytelling could be taken out of here and done in a completely different way,

[00:24:31] in a different movie, different genre, with different characters, and would still work just as well.

[00:24:35] But the way it was done in this episode, where we see how Lily has been dealing with her life, living in different timelines almost, and then it all comes together and converges in that episode.

[00:24:46] Yeah.

[00:24:46] As she comes to her end, I thought it was fantastic.

[00:24:48] Yeah.

[00:24:49] I think my favorite was episode seven, effectively Lily's story.

[00:24:53] Yeah.

[00:24:53] And I think it's because, weirdly, in the end, for me, this series coalesced for me around Jen, Lily, and Alice.

[00:25:07] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:07] The three kind of witches coming along on this journey.

[00:25:12] Yeah.

[00:25:12] And I think it's mainly because, emotionally, I think they had the heartbeat in it for me.

[00:25:18] I mean, I actually even think, even in the making of here that we're going to discuss, the stuff with Patti LuPan actually is really great and speaks to me.

[00:25:30] So I kind of coalesced around that.

[00:25:32] That's not taking anything away from Wiccan, you know, the origin story of Wiccan.

[00:25:37] I really liked that.

[00:25:39] And, you know, I read a number of, like, Young Avengers and stuff, really liked the character.

[00:25:47] And I thought that was going to be the big thing for me.

[00:25:50] And in the end, it's still massive.

[00:25:53] Yeah.

[00:25:53] But I just liked the little ensemble of the three witches coming along on this journey.

[00:26:00] Yeah.

[00:26:00] And because I kind of got invested in them.

[00:26:03] And two of them died.

[00:26:05] And Jen, like, I mean, really intrigued to know where did Jen go?

[00:26:10] Absolutely.

[00:26:10] And what's, you know, she's being told she's the future.

[00:26:13] So what is she going to do?

[00:26:15] Yeah.

[00:26:16] I hope they have a plan.

[00:26:17] Yeah, I really do too.

[00:26:18] I really do.

[00:26:19] I really want to see her back in something else in the future.

[00:26:21] But you're totally right.

[00:26:22] And I think part of it is going to be in the show because they're trying to stretch it around Agatha's story for the whole season.

[00:26:29] And we didn't get the reveal of what was happening until the last episode.

[00:26:33] And that fleshes out both Billy and Agatha's characters when you realize Billy's created the road.

[00:26:38] And it's from a song that was created as a con or was used as a con for 100 years by Agatha or 300 years by Agatha.

[00:26:44] Sorry, I'm getting all my timelines wrong.

[00:26:46] But those things being held back make it difficult to kind of align yourself with both Agatha and Billy because you're trying to learn who they are.

[00:26:54] Whereas Jen and Lilia and Alice, they come on screen fully formed.

[00:27:00] You know, they are characters that you're following along and you can identify with them and you can see them on the journey.

[00:27:05] So, yeah, you're right.

[00:27:06] They are the heart of the show more than the other two because you're learning about the other two.

[00:27:09] And there's big things being held back from you as an audience member.

[00:27:12] Agreed.

[00:27:12] But there was still stuff that was kind of withheld like, you know, the person who had depowered Jen.

[00:27:20] And even like with Lilia's, you know, the fact that she was having these moments through space and time.

[00:27:26] So it, you know, that disjointed nature of Lilia throughout the episodes until you get the full story.

[00:27:37] Yeah.

[00:27:38] Again, it's in the same way.

[00:27:40] I think it's just that can be sometimes the thing is like with the with lead characters is that in a sense it's because you do know them.

[00:27:51] Yeah.

[00:27:52] And so you have these characters that you're trying to find out, you know, like why are they on the road with them?

[00:28:00] Are they just body fodder for, you know, for death?

[00:28:04] You know, so what is going on?

[00:28:05] So like, anyway, like I just really enjoyed the series, to be honest.

[00:28:11] It was just very, very, very good.

[00:28:15] Absolutely.

[00:28:15] And yeah, I really hope that we get another one in this wheelhouse.

[00:28:21] Like almost like the Holy Trinity from Jack Schaefer.

[00:28:26] You know, the magic trinity would be quite.

[00:28:29] That's what I would say.

[00:28:30] I could see this being a really well done trilogy.

[00:28:33] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:34] Um, Trinity.

[00:28:36] Uh, yeah, I know, but you can't do that because that's a DC thing.

[00:28:40] That's Blade Trinity.

[00:28:41] Oh, I suppose.

[00:28:43] Yeah, okay.

[00:28:44] Well, that definitely can't be done.

[00:28:45] That's a Wesley Snipes thing.

[00:28:46] There you go.

[00:28:47] For the moment.

[00:28:47] It's the one.

[00:28:48] We do have Mahershali coming in to play Blaze for the first time.

[00:28:51] Sure, sure.

[00:28:52] And what if he's coming out next month?

[00:28:54] Yeah.

[00:28:55] That will be the one and only time.

[00:28:58] He will be voicing Blade next month.

[00:29:00] Yeah.

[00:29:01] One if he's actually got to play the role.

[00:29:04] Exactly.

[00:29:05] So I guess finally then, Chris, do you defend Agatha Long before we go into the Assemble documentary?

[00:29:09] I do.

[00:29:10] I really strongly, strongly do.

[00:29:12] Again, echoing what John said there, I think that's the best way.

[00:29:16] Right now, this is an amazing kind of duology of kind of a back-to-back.

[00:29:22] You can almost think of it as two beautiful films that kind of tell part one and part two.

[00:29:29] And now I'm kind of salivating for part three.

[00:29:33] I'm really interested to see where this story.

[00:29:36] That being said, the supernatural world of the MCU through Doctor Strange and now these two shows,

[00:29:49] I could do with little projects in this world.

[00:29:53] If you think of Werewolf by Night, give me these Marvel Premiere Selects, I think they were calling them Marvel Selects.

[00:30:01] They changed again for Echo, didn't they?

[00:30:04] Yeah, it did.

[00:30:05] I can't remember what it was.

[00:30:06] It was Marvel Spotlight, maybe?

[00:30:07] Marvel Spotlight, I think it was.

[00:30:09] Give me one more of those like every Halloween.

[00:30:12] Yeah.

[00:30:12] Like just give me an hour-long horror slash witchcrafty supernatural delve into this world and you could do it well.

[00:30:21] That'd be cool.

[00:30:21] And I suppose the one thing to really remember here is Matt Shackman was pulled from his work on WandaVision and elevated into the movies.

[00:30:29] And now he's the writer on lots and lots of the Marvel movies.

[00:30:33] I think he's one of the lead writers for Marvel Studios.

[00:30:35] So everything kind of run past him.

[00:30:37] So got Jack Schafer working on season one of WandaVision, then doing Agatha Long as showrunner.

[00:30:43] So I want them to pick her up and put her somewhere else.

[00:30:46] I really want them to give her Doctor Strange 3.

[00:30:48] That's where I really would love to see her go and go, right, we're going to have a proper wizard in Doctor Strange here.

[00:30:56] This proper Sorcerer Supreme with lots of other sorcerers around.

[00:30:59] I'd love to see her tackle that story.

[00:31:01] That would be really very cool.

[00:31:03] Like bringing in sort of the witches, but also you had clay as well at the end.

[00:31:08] So really, that would be quite cool, I have to say.

[00:31:12] Yeah.

[00:31:12] So that's the job I'd love to see Jack Schafer.

[00:31:14] Yes.

[00:31:15] If she's not going to get just another series.

[00:31:17] But whatever she does next, I'll be around looking forward.

[00:31:20] And I definitely want to see the magical bar as well.

[00:31:23] Oh, the bar with no name?

[00:31:25] Yeah.

[00:31:26] I'd love to see that in a Marvel property.

[00:31:30] That'd be cool.

[00:31:30] And I want to see Brother Voodoo as well.

[00:31:33] Of course.

[00:31:33] You've been asking for that since back in the cage days, John.

[00:31:36] I know.

[00:31:36] Just get on it, will you, Marvel?

[00:31:38] Someday.

[00:31:40] Stop keeping me waiting.

[00:31:42] All right, guys.

[00:31:43] Let's get on to the Agatha All Along Assembled documentary on YouTube.

[00:31:48] If you haven't watched it yet, pop on over to the Marvel YouTube channel.

[00:31:51] It's on there.

[00:31:51] It's about an hour long, as all the Assembled documentaries are.

[00:31:54] But the first kind of thing I want to mention about this, I suppose,

[00:31:57] first kind of point, this really does seem like an episode by episode

[00:32:01] mini show stitched together into the Assembled documentary.

[00:32:06] Didn't feel like the other Assembled documentaries.

[00:32:08] I know I mentioned at the top that they didn't release this in Disney+.

[00:32:11] But I think we've been watching a lot of HBO shows recently,

[00:32:14] and they do a little 10-minute clip afterwards,

[00:32:16] and AMC shows do this 10-minute clip afterwards where they talk to the cast

[00:32:19] or the director and writer about the episodes or the stunt coordinators.

[00:32:23] And this feels like one of those stitched together into this full Assembled documentary.

[00:32:29] I guess so.

[00:32:30] Like, you know, I quite enjoyed this.

[00:32:34] I just found it, because it was done chronologically,

[00:32:37] I found it infuriating because I kept writing.

[00:32:41] This is purely as a note-taker for the podcast,

[00:32:45] because I think they had the first sort of element where they were talking to,

[00:32:52] like, you know, the costume designer and maker and all that.

[00:32:57] I was writing all that down.

[00:33:00] And then Dan Saloni.

[00:33:04] Taking all that down, you know, and I was like,

[00:33:07] why has he not gone into Wiccan's costume?

[00:33:10] I was like, this is really weird.

[00:33:13] He's not gone into Wiccan's costume.

[00:33:15] But then there were another three smaller bits on costumes all the way through.

[00:33:21] And so just from that perspective, I don't know why.

[00:33:25] Maybe it was just like the evening I was watching it.

[00:33:28] It really infuriated me.

[00:33:31] Because it just kept...

[00:33:32] Give me the costume session.

[00:33:33] It kept circling back to different things.

[00:33:36] And rather than taking it, I guess, a bit like the making of for the Penguin,

[00:33:42] where they took it as, you know, stunts and production design and music and all those

[00:33:51] and looked at those sort of departments behind camera.

[00:33:56] Yeah.

[00:33:56] And that's kind of, I guess, how I've always seen making of, really.

[00:34:02] It's primarily focusing on those units and teams that put a lot of production work into

[00:34:12] the making of TV and movies.

[00:34:15] And there is crossover.

[00:34:15] They can appear in other segments, of course.

[00:34:17] But it is nice to be able to go, okay, skip to 10 minutes in.

[00:34:21] I want to see all about the costumes and see a whole segment about the costume.

[00:34:24] Or 20 minutes in and see the whole segment about how they did the music for the show.

[00:34:28] Yeah.

[00:34:28] And I think it just got in my head, really.

[00:34:30] So it's not even that important.

[00:34:32] But it's just because it went chronologically.

[00:34:34] I guess, why are they not talking about such and such thing or such and such thing?

[00:34:38] But what I did really like about it was just a lot of the pieces to camera from Patti LuPone,

[00:34:45] actually.

[00:34:46] I just think she's class act.

[00:34:49] There's a moment where she says, you know, we've become sisters.

[00:34:53] And, you know, there's just that exploration and love.

[00:34:56] And it was fun to find our instruments.

[00:35:01] A really nice sentiment, you know?

[00:35:04] Especially when the episode, they were talking about the first ballad.

[00:35:08] Yeah, exactly.

[00:35:09] They were singing to go down the road.

[00:35:10] And she was talking about, I think it was Jennifer, the actress who plays Jennifer,

[00:35:14] was especially saying, like, Patti turned her around and goes,

[00:35:18] oh, no, my dear, I only sing soprano.

[00:35:20] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:35:22] That was to the writers of the song.

[00:35:24] Oh, gosh, yeah, there was a composer.

[00:35:25] I forgot that, yes.

[00:35:27] Like, that was a really nice moment.

[00:35:29] Just, you know, weird.

[00:35:30] And just because that, Down the Witch's Road,

[00:35:34] is so central to this series.

[00:35:36] And it was a really nice moment of them, you know, coming together.

[00:35:41] A little bit of shock and awe that they were going to have to sing with this icon of Broadway.

[00:35:50] And actually, this icon of Broadway is just a very generous actor who, you know,

[00:35:56] as she says, it was exploration between friends and finding our own instruments

[00:36:03] and a lot of love and health along the way.

[00:36:06] And it was a really nice sentiment.

[00:36:09] And, yeah, really kind of liked that focus on Patti at first.

[00:36:15] Speaking of that, like, that's kind of a follow-up.

[00:36:18] One of the key bits, I found that the way they edited it,

[00:36:21] and like you said, it was all these different pieces.

[00:36:23] I found that a bit frustrating.

[00:36:25] Yeah.

[00:36:27] But one of the behind the scenes I found just,

[00:36:31] I don't believe they did it, but they did,

[00:36:34] was the raw, unedited kind of sound of the ladies singing.

[00:36:42] So when they were singing their version,

[00:36:44] like we already know they recorded all of that offstage.

[00:36:49] Yeah.

[00:36:49] On soundstage, essentially, in their own recording booths

[00:36:52] because they told us as much.

[00:36:54] But you could hear them raw singing it.

[00:36:57] And I was like, oh, that's brave.

[00:36:59] Like, that's, they had such a stand behind the ladies singing

[00:37:06] and how it still sounded great,

[00:37:07] even with that very much raw, unedited,

[00:37:11] no backing vocals, no harmonious, like prop.

[00:37:15] And then there was like one or two,

[00:37:16] they definitely missed it and they giggled

[00:37:19] and they just broke into laughter.

[00:37:20] And you're like, that's classy because you're showing that,

[00:37:24] especially Catherine Han, who apparently,

[00:37:26] I just want to be her friend now.

[00:37:29] Like, she's just awesome.

[00:37:31] Like, it's her and Albie Plaza seemingly riffing off each other

[00:37:36] as much as they did.

[00:37:38] And you're like, yeah, I just want to,

[00:37:40] can I just be your friends?

[00:37:42] You're kind of cool.

[00:37:44] It's great.

[00:37:44] It's great, isn't it?

[00:37:45] But yeah, that scene when they're in the basement

[00:37:47] and they're doing the Witch's Road for the first time together,

[00:37:50] I think that's the one they focus on the most

[00:37:52] when they're talking about the music business

[00:37:54] because I'm sure it is really difficult.

[00:37:56] You hear Jack Schafer saying to them,

[00:37:57] okay, you don't need to hit your marks perfectly on this,

[00:38:00] but we're going to do a take where you sing all of the words

[00:38:02] so that we can match it to the one you record in the studio.

[00:38:05] And it's there where you go,

[00:38:06] oh, this is where you hear Patti LuPone's voice.

[00:38:09] Yes.

[00:38:09] I kind of thought that was Catherine Hang

[00:38:11] because she leads the song at the beginning,

[00:38:13] but no, you see Patti LuPone taking over

[00:38:15] and it is her vocals absolutely on top of everybody else.

[00:38:18] Everybody else is following her,

[00:38:19] but they're all doing such a great job.

[00:38:22] They've obviously all sang the song multiple times

[00:38:24] before they got to set,

[00:38:25] but it's a really special moment seeing them all together

[00:38:27] sing the song the way that we heard it on screen.

[00:38:30] It's really cool.

[00:38:32] One of the things I really loved about Patti LuPone,

[00:38:33] the reason that she did the role,

[00:38:35] it was described to her as

[00:38:36] she's a Sicilian tarot card reader

[00:38:38] and she went, well, I'm Sicilian

[00:38:40] and the last show I did was

[00:38:42] I was a tarot card reader in it,

[00:38:43] the American Horror Story.

[00:38:45] So this is coming down my path.

[00:38:47] I wonder, did she actually mention

[00:38:48] in the original version,

[00:38:49] did she mention her work as a witch

[00:38:53] on Penny Dreadful as well?

[00:38:55] And they just cut that out

[00:38:56] because Penny Dreadful isn't available on Disney+.

[00:38:58] Well, maybe, yeah.

[00:38:59] American Horror Story is, weirdly,

[00:39:01] through Hulu.

[00:39:02] Yeah, no, that was interesting

[00:39:05] because I don't think I've even seen

[00:39:10] that series of American Horror Story.

[00:39:12] I think it's season 28 or something.

[00:39:13] Yeah, no, exactly.

[00:39:14] It's gone on for so long.

[00:39:15] Yeah.

[00:39:16] I think the other thing as well,

[00:39:17] the music part of this was really good

[00:39:20] and it's the same couple,

[00:39:22] Kristen Anderson Lopez and Robert Lopez

[00:39:25] that are back again doing the music here.

[00:39:28] Who famously, of course,

[00:39:29] did the music for Frozen.

[00:39:30] Yes.

[00:39:31] Let it go.

[00:39:32] And, of course, Wild Division.

[00:39:34] Yeah.

[00:39:35] And, again, it's just because

[00:39:37] The Witch's Road is so central to the show,

[00:39:41] I loved how Kristen was really getting excited

[00:39:46] about the challenge of having to sort of develop,

[00:39:49] you know, this tune to these lyrics.

[00:39:53] You know, it had to fit both sort of an ancient chant

[00:39:58] of a coven to a 70s to a blues,

[00:40:02] you know, to a sacred sort of choral chant.

[00:40:08] And, ultimately, the first time we hear the music

[00:40:13] in the show is Agatha humming it in the police car

[00:40:17] going to, you know, Wanda's body in the woods,

[00:40:20] the Scandic Nordic crime drama.

[00:40:25] So I really liked that.

[00:40:26] I really enjoyed hearing them again

[00:40:30] and sort of going through how they work this out

[00:40:35] because I found them really fascinating in WandaVision

[00:40:38] just because of having to do the different music

[00:40:41] for the different era of shows

[00:40:43] and just using that,

[00:40:44] the themes and sounds of those decades, you know.

[00:40:50] So that was really cool.

[00:40:51] Absolutely.

[00:40:51] And I don't think we even mentioned it on our podcast

[00:40:53] for the first episode

[00:40:54] that also the theme tune for Agnes of Westview,

[00:40:57] the TV show in that first episode,

[00:40:59] that theme tune is a version of Down the Road,

[00:41:03] Down the Witch's Road,

[00:41:04] but the lyrics are different

[00:41:06] because it's not the Witch's Road in that,

[00:41:08] but it is another version of the song.

[00:41:11] It's because we were watching the episodes one at a time,

[00:41:13] so we hadn't got to the second version

[00:41:15] of Down the Road at that stage,

[00:41:17] or the ballad at that stage.

[00:41:19] But yeah, I loved it.

[00:41:20] I loved the way she talked about it being that puzzle box.

[00:41:22] For her, she loved just putting it together

[00:41:24] like a crossword puzzle

[00:41:25] or solving all of these things

[00:41:28] that were being thrown at her.

[00:41:29] Give her the puzzle,

[00:41:29] let her sit in a room

[00:41:30] and she can work it all out

[00:41:31] and then she hands it over to Robert Lopez

[00:41:33] who does the music for it

[00:41:34] and does the production for it.

[00:41:36] That's it.

[00:41:36] I didn't really hear Robert say that

[00:41:38] and I was like,

[00:41:39] did he not like that challenge?

[00:41:41] It seems that she's focused on the lyrics

[00:41:43] and that style

[00:41:44] and then he's the one that has to do the,

[00:41:46] to wrap the music piece around it.

[00:41:48] But even,

[00:41:49] kind of like you said as well, John,

[00:41:51] even the way she said that

[00:41:52] she took inspiration from songs

[00:41:55] that would have traveled down through centuries

[00:41:57] and had changes made to them

[00:41:59] through songs coming from native countries

[00:42:01] to America

[00:42:02] and being transformed into blues,

[00:42:03] being transformed into jazz,

[00:42:05] that kind of thing.

[00:42:06] Those kind of songs have lasted

[00:42:07] for hundreds of years

[00:42:08] and that's what she needed to create.

[00:42:10] What a big challenge.

[00:42:11] But if anybody can do it,

[00:42:13] it's a person who's won

[00:42:14] pretty much every single musical award there

[00:42:17] and an Oscar as well, of course.

[00:42:20] Yeah, well, we hope.

[00:42:21] Yeah, yeah.

[00:42:23] Yeah, no,

[00:42:23] I think on the costuming,

[00:42:26] you know,

[00:42:26] so actually we did luckily get

[00:42:31] some explanation around Wiccan's costume,

[00:42:33] which I thought was really cool

[00:42:35] in that you had Vision's motifs

[00:42:39] on the inside of his cape.

[00:42:41] So cool, yeah.

[00:42:41] And you had Wanda's on the outside

[00:42:44] from WandaVision,

[00:42:46] her motifs.

[00:42:47] Yeah.

[00:42:48] I thought that was really cool.

[00:42:49] But even the other stuff

[00:42:50] of the actual,

[00:42:51] the jumper and jeans

[00:42:53] that Teen had been wearing

[00:42:54] all the way throughout the show

[00:42:56] being converted

[00:42:57] into the Wiccan costume.

[00:42:58] Yeah, yeah.

[00:42:58] So having, you know,

[00:43:00] the elements that he'd sewn himself

[00:43:03] onto the jeans

[00:43:04] turning into a protection spell,

[00:43:06] the runes that form

[00:43:07] a protection spell,

[00:43:08] that's cool.

[00:43:08] That's really interesting

[00:43:09] for a costume designer

[00:43:11] to be able to do it.

[00:43:12] I haven't seen any of his work before,

[00:43:14] but he's so interesting.

[00:43:15] Yeah, but even Agatha's coat,

[00:43:17] which, you know,

[00:43:17] everyone was saying

[00:43:18] was just so swishy and great.

[00:43:20] Yeah.

[00:43:21] But I love the fact

[00:43:22] that you had that flock of birds

[00:43:24] at the top

[00:43:24] that fly down

[00:43:25] the spine of the coat,

[00:43:28] but eventually are turning

[00:43:30] into runes

[00:43:32] in the tail of the coat.

[00:43:34] Yeah, so good.

[00:43:35] Really, really cool.

[00:43:36] Yeah.

[00:43:36] And then on

[00:43:37] Patti LuPone's jacket,

[00:43:40] again,

[00:43:41] it's kind of

[00:43:42] taking inspiration

[00:43:43] from Sicilian,

[00:43:45] sort of kind of quite

[00:43:46] ancient Sicilian

[00:43:47] types of clothing.

[00:43:49] And again,

[00:43:50] it was just

[00:43:51] the scenes

[00:43:52] around the scarf collar

[00:43:54] and effectively

[00:43:56] there were scenes

[00:43:56] of women

[00:43:57] passing knowledge

[00:43:58] between each other,

[00:44:00] sort of all

[00:44:01] culminating

[00:44:02] in the eye

[00:44:03] of knowledge

[00:44:03] at the back,

[00:44:05] at the bottom

[00:44:07] of the neck,

[00:44:08] at the top

[00:44:08] of the coat.

[00:44:09] So I thought

[00:44:11] that was really

[00:44:12] excellent.

[00:44:13] And what did he say?

[00:44:13] He loved the idea

[00:44:14] of her looking forward

[00:44:15] into the future

[00:44:15] and also looking behind

[00:44:16] her at the same time,

[00:44:18] which is kind of

[00:44:18] her old character.

[00:44:19] I was just shocked

[00:44:21] that this level

[00:44:22] of thought

[00:44:23] and detail

[00:44:24] went into the costume.

[00:44:26] And I mean,

[00:44:27] I understand costuming,

[00:44:28] especially on TV shows,

[00:44:30] it's a huge production

[00:44:31] and it's a huge piece.

[00:44:33] But these,

[00:44:34] like,

[00:44:35] the small runic details

[00:44:36] on some of the jackets

[00:44:38] and the,

[00:44:39] like,

[00:44:39] the dresses

[00:44:40] and the gloves

[00:44:41] and the skirt,

[00:44:43] unless they were

[00:44:45] pointed out,

[00:44:46] which they were,

[00:44:48] I don't know many people

[00:44:49] would have copped them.

[00:44:50] No.

[00:44:51] Yeah.

[00:44:51] The small galaxy wave

[00:44:54] on Wiccan's costume,

[00:44:55] which calls back

[00:44:56] to some of his

[00:44:58] mid-costumes

[00:45:01] at the moment

[00:45:01] or when he was in space.

[00:45:03] Like,

[00:45:03] I just thought

[00:45:05] it was a nice

[00:45:06] dark hue blue.

[00:45:08] But then they,

[00:45:09] high-res photo show

[00:45:11] it has a bit

[00:45:11] of white speck

[00:45:12] so it's the galaxy

[00:45:13] callback.

[00:45:14] And I'm like,

[00:45:15] dude,

[00:45:16] well,

[00:45:16] like,

[00:45:17] that's the level

[00:45:18] of Easter egg

[00:45:19] like,

[00:45:20] that you love

[00:45:21] to hear about.

[00:45:22] You could have,

[00:45:22] like,

[00:45:23] given us,

[00:45:23] like,

[00:45:24] 20 less runes

[00:45:25] and we would have

[00:45:26] still given you

[00:45:27] a huge high-five.

[00:45:28] You didn't need

[00:45:28] to go that,

[00:45:29] like,

[00:45:29] that's the student

[00:45:31] that goes for,

[00:45:32] like,

[00:45:33] the A+.

[00:45:35] And then when you,

[00:45:36] they're already

[00:45:36] at the A,

[00:45:37] you're like,

[00:45:37] dude,

[00:45:38] it's fine.

[00:45:39] You win.

[00:45:40] It's fine.

[00:45:40] They're like,

[00:45:40] no,

[00:45:41] no,

[00:45:41] no,

[00:45:41] I'm going.

[00:45:42] I'm finishing this.

[00:45:43] They could have

[00:45:44] gotten down to a thrift store

[00:45:45] or a second-hand store

[00:45:46] and picked up,

[00:45:47] you know,

[00:45:47] a blue jumper

[00:45:48] and a pair of jeans

[00:45:48] and given them to Joe Locke

[00:45:50] and said,

[00:45:50] that's your costume

[00:45:51] for the teen.

[00:45:52] But having them,

[00:45:53] you know,

[00:45:54] having them handcrafted

[00:45:55] or having them hand-adjusted

[00:45:56] by the teen

[00:45:57] in character

[00:45:58] where he's creating runes

[00:46:00] and creating magical symbols

[00:46:01] on his own clothes

[00:46:02] and those turn into something

[00:46:03] for Wiccan.

[00:46:04] That's so much thought in there.

[00:46:06] I think from the Penguin documentary,

[00:46:07] there's an interesting discussion

[00:46:08] with the costume designer there

[00:46:09] where she says,

[00:46:10] you know,

[00:46:10] the actors take the script

[00:46:11] and they act it.

[00:46:12] The writers write the story.

[00:46:14] In costuming,

[00:46:15] what we do is

[00:46:15] we write our own story

[00:46:17] for the characters.

[00:46:18] We create their past

[00:46:18] and create something

[00:46:19] for the actors to take

[00:46:20] and wear

[00:46:21] and use to form their character.

[00:46:23] So from their perspective,

[00:46:25] that's their art.

[00:46:26] That's their tool

[00:46:26] that they use

[00:46:27] in the production.

[00:46:28] So having someone

[00:46:29] be as detailed

[00:46:30] as Dan Salon is here

[00:46:32] on the costumes

[00:46:33] adds to the world of Agatha.

[00:46:35] Well,

[00:46:35] that's it.

[00:46:35] I mean,

[00:46:36] like even Jen's costume,

[00:46:37] it had all these different symbols

[00:46:38] of different herbs

[00:46:39] and flowers

[00:46:40] almost effectively nodding

[00:46:42] to her potions master

[00:46:44] and using them

[00:46:46] in her potions.

[00:46:49] But also that

[00:46:50] it was a very subtle tone

[00:46:52] of pink,

[00:46:53] which they used

[00:46:54] because it used to be

[00:46:55] a manly color.

[00:46:56] Yeah.

[00:46:57] To mean strength.

[00:46:58] To mean strength

[00:46:59] and to give her

[00:47:01] that element as well.

[00:47:02] I mean,

[00:47:03] I almost,

[00:47:04] even though Alice Wu's costume

[00:47:06] had something in it,

[00:47:07] I almost felt sorry for Alice

[00:47:09] for just kind of

[00:47:10] looking like a rock star.

[00:47:13] Well,

[00:47:13] I love,

[00:47:14] I love the description

[00:47:14] that Dan has of that.

[00:47:16] That's the costume

[00:47:17] is protection armor for

[00:47:18] that's why it looks

[00:47:19] so strong and tough.

[00:47:20] It's the leather jacket,

[00:47:21] which is,

[00:47:21] she's the protection witch.

[00:47:23] But on the back of it

[00:47:24] is a flaming cabin.

[00:47:26] That's effectively

[00:47:26] the death of her mother.

[00:47:27] The thing that's brought her

[00:47:28] to the road

[00:47:30] is that she,

[00:47:31] what did he say?

[00:47:31] She wears her worst pain

[00:47:33] on her at all times,

[00:47:34] which is,

[00:47:34] you know,

[00:47:35] an interesting part

[00:47:36] of Alice's character as well.

[00:47:37] And even like the Salem 7

[00:47:38] were,

[00:47:39] you know,

[00:47:39] the costumes all had

[00:47:41] a reflection of that animal

[00:47:43] that they were

[00:47:44] where that was the case.

[00:47:46] So like,

[00:47:46] that was really cool.

[00:47:47] And actually,

[00:47:48] you know,

[00:47:48] you kind of lose it

[00:47:49] because it's a black costume.

[00:47:51] Yeah,

[00:47:52] at night.

[00:47:53] Yeah,

[00:47:54] definitely highly recommend

[00:47:55] going onto Instagram

[00:47:56] or TikTok

[00:47:57] if you have TikTok

[00:47:58] and go check out

[00:47:59] some of the actors

[00:48:01] and dancers

[00:48:02] that played

[00:48:03] the Salem 7

[00:48:04] because they put up

[00:48:04] some videos of them

[00:48:05] working together

[00:48:06] on their movement.

[00:48:07] And it was so interesting.

[00:48:08] It's really,

[00:48:09] really cool.

[00:48:10] Yeah.

[00:48:10] Then just on the practical effects,

[00:48:12] I like the fact that

[00:48:13] there were,

[00:48:14] you know,

[00:48:15] the miniatures

[00:48:15] of like the beach house.

[00:48:17] I liked

[00:48:18] how the whole

[00:48:20] wood

[00:48:20] of the Witch's Road

[00:48:22] was done

[00:48:23] inside

[00:48:24] and it was

[00:48:26] with matte paintings

[00:48:27] as well.

[00:48:28] I really like

[00:48:29] how matte paintings

[00:48:31] are getting a bit

[00:48:33] of a comeback.

[00:48:34] Yeah,

[00:48:35] absolutely.

[00:48:35] Really cool.

[00:48:36] We're a bit Star Wars fan

[00:48:37] so that's something

[00:48:38] we all know from that.

[00:48:39] Exactly.

[00:48:40] But it also worked

[00:48:41] thematically

[00:48:42] because you have

[00:48:42] Rio slicing through it

[00:48:44] showing that

[00:48:45] it's been constructed

[00:48:46] in,

[00:48:48] in,

[00:48:48] by Billy

[00:48:49] effectively.

[00:48:49] Yeah.

[00:48:50] And,

[00:48:51] but even then

[00:48:52] the flooding

[00:48:52] of the beach house

[00:48:53] that they had

[00:48:54] all these tanks

[00:48:55] and I didn't,

[00:48:57] like just seeing

[00:48:58] that being done

[00:48:59] practically

[00:48:59] really,

[00:49:01] really good.

[00:49:01] So I,

[00:49:02] I really enjoyed

[00:49:03] just hearing about

[00:49:04] these different

[00:49:06] practical effects,

[00:49:07] you know.

[00:49:08] I guess it's like,

[00:49:10] it's not just Star Wars

[00:49:11] though.

[00:49:11] Like Indiana Jones

[00:49:13] had really good

[00:49:14] matte paintings,

[00:49:15] you know,

[00:49:16] at the end

[00:49:17] has done.

[00:49:18] So I,

[00:49:19] I liked how they

[00:49:20] were trying to

[00:49:21] reduce that amount

[00:49:22] of green screen.

[00:49:24] Yeah.

[00:49:24] And interestingly

[00:49:25] for the wood

[00:49:25] because we watched

[00:49:26] Wizards of Oz

[00:49:27] recently.

[00:49:28] Of course we did.

[00:49:28] How very similar,

[00:49:32] obviously much brighter.

[00:49:34] Yeah.

[00:49:34] But those practical

[00:49:36] effects of the path

[00:49:37] going through the woods,

[00:49:40] you know,

[00:49:41] really you,

[00:49:42] you felt the DNA

[00:49:44] of the Wizard of Oz

[00:49:45] after watching it.

[00:49:47] Yeah.

[00:49:48] And tonally,

[00:49:49] it totally makes sense.

[00:49:50] Again,

[00:49:51] you know,

[00:49:51] with the revelation

[00:49:52] and the reveal

[00:49:53] that it is

[00:49:54] all from Billy's mind,

[00:49:55] he's pulled these images

[00:49:56] from his mind

[00:49:57] and creating this whole thing.

[00:49:58] It does make sense

[00:49:58] that he would create

[00:49:59] something just like

[00:50:00] the Wizard of Oz,

[00:50:00] a soundstage

[00:50:01] with things built

[00:50:02] practically there,

[00:50:04] not grown,

[00:50:04] you know,

[00:50:05] not like a real wood

[00:50:06] in a real forest

[00:50:07] that they're going through.

[00:50:08] It just has that

[00:50:09] magical tinge to it.

[00:50:10] But it is beautiful.

[00:50:11] I was getting

[00:50:11] little flashbacks

[00:50:12] to some of the

[00:50:13] Lord of the Rings

[00:50:14] documentaries

[00:50:15] when they were,

[00:50:15] when they were looking

[00:50:16] at their miniatures

[00:50:17] and how they created them.

[00:50:18] You know,

[00:50:18] that beach house shot

[00:50:19] where they say

[00:50:20] they recreated

[00:50:21] the beach house

[00:50:22] and it took them,

[00:50:23] six weeks,

[00:50:23] wasn't it,

[00:50:24] to build every single element

[00:50:26] of that,

[00:50:26] every single tile

[00:50:27] and the roof

[00:50:28] was handcrafted,

[00:50:29] all put into

[00:50:30] the exact same position

[00:50:31] that the one

[00:50:32] that was used

[00:50:33] on set was

[00:50:34] and all for just one shot

[00:50:35] that they had to get

[00:50:36] at exactly the right moment

[00:50:37] so that the,

[00:50:38] the flash of the light

[00:50:40] could block the seam

[00:50:41] between the two,

[00:50:42] between the,

[00:50:43] the wood that they'd created

[00:50:44] and this miniature

[00:50:45] of the,

[00:50:46] of the beach house.

[00:50:47] It's so cool.

[00:50:47] I love that stuff

[00:50:48] that people would spend

[00:50:49] absolutely months

[00:50:50] working on these things

[00:50:51] for one shot.

[00:50:52] You could tell the emotion

[00:50:53] of the,

[00:50:54] the person who was working

[00:50:55] on the show

[00:50:56] saying that she cried

[00:50:57] when she saw

[00:50:58] that moment on screen

[00:50:59] because they'd accomplished it.

[00:51:01] They'd actually gotten

[00:51:01] the thing they wanted to do.

[00:51:02] You can see how passionate

[00:51:03] they all were about it.

[00:51:05] For me,

[00:51:06] one of the,

[00:51:07] the next pieces

[00:51:07] was the actual flooding

[00:51:08] of the set.

[00:51:10] So the episode,

[00:51:11] I think it was episode three,

[00:51:14] um,

[00:51:15] the,

[00:51:15] the house scene,

[00:51:16] um,

[00:51:17] where they said

[00:51:18] where basically the water

[00:51:19] started coming into the house

[00:51:20] and they said

[00:51:22] they did a number of tests

[00:51:23] without any water

[00:51:24] and then on the first

[00:51:26] test with water

[00:51:28] they said

[00:51:28] it would just be a trickle,

[00:51:29] it'd be all grand

[00:51:29] and then they actually

[00:51:31] fully let the,

[00:51:32] the tanks go.

[00:51:34] Uh,

[00:51:34] so the shock

[00:51:35] and awe

[00:51:36] and run

[00:51:37] from the,

[00:51:38] the,

[00:51:38] the people

[00:51:39] were actual,

[00:51:40] was actually correct

[00:51:42] and I was like,

[00:51:42] I like it,

[00:51:42] I like it.

[00:51:43] Yeah,

[00:51:44] absolutely.

[00:51:44] That's really cool.

[00:51:45] It's really cool.

[00:51:46] Um,

[00:51:47] I just have one other thing

[00:51:48] that I really loved

[00:51:48] when they talked about

[00:51:49] in the practical effects

[00:51:50] when they talked about

[00:51:50] the tower,

[00:51:51] um,

[00:51:52] Lilia's episode

[00:51:53] and they talked about,

[00:51:54] uh,

[00:51:54] you know,

[00:51:54] that those were all

[00:51:55] actual swords

[00:51:56] that were dangling

[00:51:57] from the ceiling,

[00:51:58] uh,

[00:51:58] all on the ropes

[00:51:59] that,

[00:52:00] uh,

[00:52:00] that were all numbered

[00:52:01] so they know exactly

[00:52:02] which,

[00:52:02] uh,

[00:52:03] which sword is going

[00:52:04] to fall so they don't

[00:52:05] obviously kill one of

[00:52:06] the actors,

[00:52:06] uh,

[00:52:07] but also that the

[00:52:08] ceiling itself

[00:52:09] is controlled,

[00:52:10] um,

[00:52:10] to be coming down

[00:52:12] towards them

[00:52:13] but it is counterweighted

[00:52:14] so it will fire back

[00:52:15] upwards if anything

[00:52:16] goes,

[00:52:16] goes wrong

[00:52:17] rather than going

[00:52:18] down really quickly.

[00:52:19] So,

[00:52:20] uh,

[00:52:20] which again,

[00:52:21] you don't want to

[00:52:21] kill your actors

[00:52:21] when you're on a show

[00:52:23] like this.

[00:52:24] Brilliant stuff.

[00:52:25] Uh,

[00:52:25] I know you mentioned

[00:52:26] about the costumes

[00:52:27] already,

[00:52:28] John,

[00:52:28] about the main

[00:52:28] costumes,

[00:52:29] uh,

[00:52:29] that they talked

[00:52:30] about on the road

[00:52:30] but again,

[00:52:31] there was a little

[00:52:32] split,

[00:52:32] uh,

[00:52:32] of the costumer,

[00:52:33] a costume designer

[00:52:34] coming back

[00:52:35] and talking about

[00:52:36] the costumes

[00:52:36] as he went

[00:52:37] through them.

[00:52:38] Definitely my favorite

[00:52:39] was when he talked

[00:52:39] about the costumes,

[00:52:40] uh,

[00:52:40] in the recording

[00:52:41] studio in Alice's

[00:52:42] trial.

[00:52:43] Uh,

[00:52:43] I thought that

[00:52:43] that was really,

[00:52:44] really interesting

[00:52:45] where he mentioned

[00:52:46] all the inspiration

[00:52:47] that he got

[00:52:48] from various,

[00:52:49] uh,

[00:52:49] from various people

[00:52:50] in the real world,

[00:52:51] rock musicians,

[00:52:52] you know,

[00:52:52] he talks about,

[00:52:53] um,

[00:52:54] death costumes

[00:52:54] being inspired

[00:52:55] by Cher,

[00:52:56] Jen's costume

[00:52:57] inspired by

[00:52:58] Donna Summer

[00:52:58] and Diana Ross,

[00:52:59] um,

[00:53:00] Agatha's costume

[00:53:01] uh,

[00:53:02] inspired by

[00:53:02] the ladies

[00:53:02] in Fleetwood Mac

[00:53:03] and Patti Smith,

[00:53:05] uh,

[00:53:05] Teane's costume

[00:53:05] just had that

[00:53:06] swagger of Jagger,

[00:53:07] I think,

[00:53:08] as Joe Locke

[00:53:08] says as well,

[00:53:09] they wanted to

[00:53:09] give him that

[00:53:10] swagger so he felt

[00:53:11] like a rock star

[00:53:12] in his 70s,

[00:53:12] which is cool.

[00:53:13] And then Lilia,

[00:53:14] of course,

[00:53:15] um,

[00:53:15] with the Liza Minnelli

[00:53:16] look that we all

[00:53:17] noticed immediately,

[00:53:18] but the joke in there

[00:53:19] is that she worked

[00:53:20] with Liza Minnelli

[00:53:21] is a very good friend

[00:53:22] Liza Minnelli

[00:53:22] or at least was

[00:53:23] back in the 70s,

[00:53:24] she would have

[00:53:24] actually seen

[00:53:25] Liza Minnelli

[00:53:25] wearing that exact

[00:53:26] outfit out in the

[00:53:27] night out,

[00:53:28] uh,

[00:53:28] so I really liked that,

[00:53:29] thought that was,

[00:53:30] thought that was cool.

[00:53:30] And the interesting one

[00:53:31] because we couldn't

[00:53:32] work it out when we

[00:53:32] watched the show,

[00:53:33] but Alice's look

[00:53:34] inspired by

[00:53:36] John Lennon

[00:53:37] and Yoko Ono

[00:53:38] and Steven Tyler

[00:53:40] from Aerosmith,

[00:53:40] I thought that was

[00:53:41] really interesting.

[00:53:42] Uh,

[00:53:42] and when you look

[00:53:43] back at it,

[00:53:43] you go,

[00:53:43] yeah,

[00:53:44] I absolutely see that.

[00:53:45] Yeah,

[00:53:45] absolutely.

[00:53:45] Um,

[00:53:46] Yoko Ono was such

[00:53:49] how you can mix

[00:53:50] those two looks

[00:53:51] plus add a bit of,

[00:53:52] again,

[00:53:53] the swagger of

[00:53:53] Steven Tyler as well.

[00:53:54] That's cool.

[00:53:55] Yeah.

[00:53:55] One piece we learned

[00:53:56] from that,

[00:53:56] that,

[00:53:57] that,

[00:53:57] that set or

[00:53:59] that kind of

[00:54:00] look back was

[00:54:01] all the rest of them

[00:54:02] received musical

[00:54:03] instruments and

[00:54:04] learned their

[00:54:04] musical instruments.

[00:54:06] Uh,

[00:54:06] Joe Locke

[00:54:06] received his guitar,

[00:54:08] still couldn't play it

[00:54:10] even after.

[00:54:11] It's like I did a few

[00:54:12] I did a few lessons

[00:54:13] over the course of a year

[00:54:14] and here I am sitting

[00:54:15] beside someone who's

[00:54:16] an actual pianist

[00:54:17] who's leading this.

[00:54:18] And you're like,

[00:54:19] yeah,

[00:54:19] we have,

[00:54:20] uh,

[00:54:21] Aubrey Plaza going,

[00:54:22] yeah,

[00:54:22] I have a drum kit at

[00:54:23] home for the last

[00:54:23] six months.

[00:54:24] It's amazing.

[00:54:25] That's really cool.

[00:54:26] That's really cool.

[00:54:27] Um,

[00:54:28] any other bits and

[00:54:29] pieces that came out

[00:54:29] from the episode that

[00:54:30] you want to talk about?

[00:54:31] No,

[00:54:31] none for,

[00:54:32] from me.

[00:54:33] Nothing else from

[00:54:33] myself.

[00:54:34] I just wanted to

[00:54:35] talk about kind of

[00:54:35] Jack Schaefer's

[00:54:36] initial discussion

[00:54:37] about how she came

[00:54:38] back on board,

[00:54:39] um,

[00:54:39] for Agatha

[00:54:40] all along that

[00:54:40] she has been

[00:54:41] working with Kevin

[00:54:42] Foggy on developing

[00:54:43] multiple projects.

[00:54:44] I loved this,

[00:54:45] uh,

[00:54:45] this moment.

[00:54:46] I think it might

[00:54:46] even be the clip

[00:54:46] up front for this

[00:54:48] episode,

[00:54:48] but where she says

[00:54:49] every single character

[00:54:51] that I worked with

[00:54:52] in the MCU trying to

[00:54:53] develop a show or a

[00:54:54] movie out of,

[00:54:55] Agatha would just

[00:54:55] pop in in episode

[00:54:57] three or in scene

[00:54:58] five.

[00:54:58] Agatha would just

[00:54:59] appear there and

[00:54:59] love this,

[00:55:00] that,

[00:55:00] um,

[00:55:01] you know,

[00:55:01] she could be

[00:55:01] working on the

[00:55:02] new Incredible Hulk

[00:55:02] movie and then

[00:55:03] Agatha appears in the

[00:55:04] background or she

[00:55:05] could be working on

[00:55:05] whatever,

[00:55:05] whatever other

[00:55:06] project it is.

[00:55:07] And then Agatha

[00:55:07] appears and Kevin

[00:55:08] Foggy goes,

[00:55:09] um,

[00:55:09] do you want to make

[00:55:10] it Agatha all along

[00:55:11] follow up?

[00:55:12] You know,

[00:55:12] do you want to make

[00:55:13] another show about

[00:55:14] it?

[00:55:14] I thought that was

[00:55:15] really interesting.

[00:55:16] And the fact that it

[00:55:17] did all come from that

[00:55:18] song hitting as big as

[00:55:19] it did,

[00:55:20] Agatha all along from

[00:55:21] WandaVision,

[00:55:21] when it hit so big,

[00:55:22] when it went to number

[00:55:23] one around the world

[00:55:24] in multiple charts,

[00:55:26] that they went,

[00:55:26] oh,

[00:55:26] hang on a second,

[00:55:27] there may be something

[00:55:28] quite big here in

[00:55:29] Agatha Harkness that

[00:55:30] we might want to

[00:55:31] develop something out

[00:55:32] of this in the future.

[00:55:34] Uh,

[00:55:34] loved Catherine Hand

[00:55:35] saying,

[00:55:35] I became a meme,

[00:55:36] I became a gif and

[00:55:37] then my kids had to

[00:55:38] explain to me what a

[00:55:39] meme is and what a

[00:55:40] gif is.

[00:55:41] I love that.

[00:55:43] She says she just

[00:55:44] crapped her pants when

[00:55:45] she got the phone call

[00:55:45] saying,

[00:55:46] uh,

[00:55:46] do you want to come

[00:55:47] back to the MCU

[00:55:47] and lead a TV show?

[00:55:49] Um,

[00:55:49] that was really,

[00:55:50] a really cool little,

[00:55:51] uh,

[00:55:52] insight into what,

[00:55:53] what works for

[00:55:54] Marvel Studios.

[00:55:55] You know,

[00:55:55] they find something

[00:55:56] that works and

[00:55:56] they'll develop

[00:55:57] something around it

[00:55:57] and hopefully with

[00:55:58] the right people,

[00:55:58] it'll be as

[00:55:59] successful as Agatha

[00:56:00] all along,

[00:56:01] I guess.

[00:56:01] Yeah,

[00:56:02] no,

[00:56:06] get pen to paper

[00:56:08] and start writing

[00:56:09] a third,

[00:56:10] uh,

[00:56:11] witchy season.

[00:56:12] Absolutely.

[00:56:14] Part of me is very

[00:56:16] curious what else

[00:56:17] they're working on

[00:56:17] because back in,

[00:56:19] about what,

[00:56:19] five years ago,

[00:56:20] we got that big

[00:56:22] Hall H look

[00:56:24] and it was

[00:56:25] everything.

[00:56:26] We had the next

[00:56:27] six to eight years

[00:56:28] of shows

[00:56:30] and movies

[00:56:30] and everything

[00:56:32] and now

[00:56:34] they're being a lot

[00:56:34] more,

[00:56:35] they're holding a lot

[00:56:35] more cards to their

[00:56:36] chest,

[00:56:36] obviously.

[00:56:37] We know why

[00:56:38] COVID scrapped a lot,

[00:56:39] changed a lot,

[00:56:41] Kang Dynasty issue

[00:56:43] changed a lot,

[00:56:45] the Rider Strike

[00:56:45] changed a lot.

[00:56:46] We had,

[00:56:47] I understand why

[00:56:48] they're doing it

[00:56:50] but looking forward,

[00:56:51] I'm actually like,

[00:56:53] I don't know much

[00:56:54] more shows.

[00:56:56] By the end of next

[00:56:57] year,

[00:56:58] every show in

[00:56:59] production that we

[00:57:00] are aware of

[00:57:01] will have been

[00:57:01] released.

[00:57:02] Yes.

[00:57:02] Apart from season

[00:57:03] two of Daredevil

[00:57:04] Born Again,

[00:57:04] we know season one

[00:57:05] of Daredevil Born

[00:57:06] Again is coming

[00:57:06] out in March,

[00:57:07] season two,

[00:57:08] it's been split and

[00:57:09] season two will come

[00:57:10] out in the future

[00:57:11] but everything else

[00:57:12] that we're aware of

[00:57:14] will pretty much be

[00:57:15] out next year.

[00:57:15] Vision Quest,

[00:57:16] sorry,

[00:57:16] that's the only

[00:57:17] other one,

[00:57:17] whatever that show

[00:57:18] is going to be

[00:57:18] called in the

[00:57:19] future,

[00:57:19] that starts

[00:57:20] filming next year.

[00:57:21] But yeah,

[00:57:22] there's not much

[00:57:22] on the future

[00:57:23] slate at the

[00:57:25] moment.

[00:57:25] I think part of

[00:57:25] that is because

[00:57:26] they slowed down,

[00:57:28] they released a few,

[00:57:28] a lot less things,

[00:57:30] I think only one

[00:57:31] movie this year,

[00:57:32] right?

[00:57:33] So they've slowed

[00:57:35] down in releasing

[00:57:35] them because of the

[00:57:37] writer's strike and

[00:57:37] the director's strike

[00:57:38] and of course the

[00:57:39] challenge that they

[00:57:39] had with the

[00:57:40] special effects

[00:57:41] studios who were

[00:57:42] working massive

[00:57:43] overtime and led

[00:57:44] to one of the

[00:57:45] major executives

[00:57:45] in Marvel being

[00:57:46] fired for their

[00:57:47] work with them.

[00:57:48] So they've had a

[00:57:49] lot to deal with.

[00:57:51] They slowed down

[00:57:52] the release of a

[00:57:54] lot of shows and

[00:57:55] movies that are

[00:57:56] all back on the

[00:57:57] schedule for next

[00:57:58] year.

[00:57:58] We've got a big

[00:57:59] Marvel year next

[00:57:59] year because they

[00:58:00] are trying to lead

[00:58:01] back into the

[00:58:03] next Avengers

[00:58:04] movie.

[00:58:04] So there will be

[00:58:05] space in the future

[00:58:06] for other projects

[00:58:07] down the line.

[00:58:09] Hopefully this

[00:58:10] Disney Plus thing

[00:58:11] keeps going and we

[00:58:11] keep getting great

[00:58:12] shows on Disney Plus

[00:58:13] and hopefully Jack

[00:58:14] Schaefer is in the

[00:58:14] lead of those in

[00:58:15] the future as well.

[00:58:17] Yeah,

[00:58:17] I'm kind of

[00:58:17] hoping I really

[00:58:18] am.

[00:58:19] Yeah,

[00:58:19] definitely.

[00:58:20] I've only got one

[00:58:21] final note before

[00:58:22] we close out this

[00:58:23] portion of the

[00:58:24] making of Agatha

[00:58:25] all along.

[00:58:25] Just because we

[00:58:26] referenced all of

[00:58:27] the Wizard of Oz

[00:58:28] stuff throughout the

[00:58:28] series,

[00:58:29] there was also one

[00:58:30] little reference

[00:58:31] that you might

[00:58:32] have missed.

[00:58:32] You might have

[00:58:33] blinked and missed

[00:58:34] it.

[00:58:34] But the filming of

[00:58:36] the show was under

[00:58:36] the name My

[00:58:37] Pretty,

[00:58:38] which I loved.

[00:58:40] Oh,

[00:58:40] the Green Witch.

[00:58:41] I'll get you my

[00:58:42] pretty,

[00:58:43] yes.

[00:58:43] Oh,

[00:58:44] well done.

[00:58:45] They even had a

[00:58:46] little reference to

[00:58:46] Wizard of Oz

[00:58:47] in the making of

[00:58:48] Agatha all along.

[00:58:49] Very good.

[00:58:51] Very good.

[00:58:52] So that just leads

[00:58:53] to one final thing.

[00:58:54] John,

[00:58:54] do you defend

[00:58:55] Marvel Studios

[00:58:55] assembled the

[00:58:56] making of Agatha

[00:58:57] all along?

[00:58:58] Yes.

[00:59:00] I hadn't really

[00:59:02] gotten a defend

[00:59:03] or not.

[00:59:03] Yeah,

[00:59:04] I do defend

[00:59:04] this.

[00:59:04] It's great to

[00:59:05] always look

[00:59:06] behind the

[00:59:07] curtain,

[00:59:08] shall we say.

[00:59:09] Or a slash

[00:59:10] through the

[00:59:10] scenery.

[00:59:11] Well,

[00:59:11] just to give

[00:59:12] another Wizard of Oz

[00:59:13] reference.

[00:59:13] Absolutely.

[00:59:14] And see how

[00:59:16] the cogs work

[00:59:17] and if indeed

[00:59:18] it is actually

[00:59:19] just someone

[00:59:20] pulling levers

[00:59:23] I'm pretending.

[00:59:25] Yeah.

[00:59:25] And I did.

[00:59:28] I found it a little

[00:59:29] frustrating.

[00:59:30] I think,

[00:59:31] you know,

[00:59:31] when it feels

[00:59:33] like it's

[00:59:34] stitched together

[00:59:34] but that doesn't

[00:59:36] take away from

[00:59:37] just,

[00:59:38] you know,

[00:59:39] exploring the

[00:59:40] costuming,

[00:59:41] exploring the

[00:59:41] music,

[00:59:42] exploring the

[00:59:43] practical effects

[00:59:44] and how it was

[00:59:46] done and little

[00:59:47] snippets around

[00:59:47] other aspects of

[00:59:48] the production.

[00:59:50] I'm always

[00:59:51] going to like

[00:59:52] that.

[00:59:52] So yeah,

[00:59:52] I do defend

[00:59:53] this.

[00:59:53] Chris,

[00:59:54] do you defend

[00:59:57] assembled the

[00:59:58] making of

[00:59:58] Agatha all

[00:59:59] along?

[01:00:00] I do,

[01:00:01] but much like

[01:00:02] you,

[01:00:02] I had not

[01:00:02] fully,

[01:00:03] this one even

[01:00:04] didn't feel

[01:00:05] like a,

[01:00:07] I suppose,

[01:00:08] again,

[01:00:08] it was,

[01:00:09] they're testing

[01:00:09] a few things,

[01:00:10] it didn't feel

[01:00:10] like another of

[01:00:11] the previous

[01:00:12] making ofs

[01:00:12] that where we've

[01:00:13] seen a bit

[01:00:14] more of a

[01:00:14] deep dive.

[01:00:15] I love some

[01:00:16] of the things

[01:00:17] we've seen

[01:00:19] but there's

[01:00:20] only so much

[01:00:20] victory laps,

[01:00:21] I can give

[01:00:21] them as high

[01:00:22] fives as they

[01:00:23] go past us.

[01:00:23] I'm like,

[01:00:24] yeah,

[01:00:24] you did great,

[01:00:24] you did okay,

[01:00:25] you still did

[01:00:26] great,

[01:00:27] well done.

[01:00:28] I like the

[01:00:29] costume design,

[01:00:29] I'm like,

[01:00:30] you guys went

[01:00:31] above and

[01:00:31] beyond,

[01:00:32] well done.

[01:00:33] Much like

[01:00:34] Agatha

[01:00:34] all along,

[01:00:35] the song,

[01:00:36] The Witch's

[01:00:37] Road,

[01:00:37] the song,

[01:00:40] is in my

[01:00:40] head to this

[01:00:42] day.

[01:00:42] It is like

[01:00:43] toss your

[01:00:43] coin to your

[01:00:44] Witcher.

[01:00:45] It will stay

[01:00:46] in my head

[01:00:47] every now

[01:00:48] and again.

[01:00:50] I listened

[01:00:51] to two

[01:00:51] verses of it

[01:00:51] the other

[01:00:52] night again.

[01:00:53] I'm loving

[01:00:54] that song.

[01:00:55] Toss a

[01:00:55] coin to your

[01:00:56] Witcher or?

[01:00:57] No,

[01:00:58] Chris,

[01:00:58] not toss

[01:00:59] a coin to

[01:01:00] your Witcher.

[01:01:01] The ballad

[01:01:02] from Agatha

[01:01:03] All Along,

[01:01:03] Chris.

[01:01:05] I thought

[01:01:05] we were

[01:01:06] going to

[01:01:06] have a

[01:01:06] Witcher

[01:01:06] moment

[01:01:07] there again.

[01:01:09] I listened

[01:01:10] to

[01:01:10] Zigga

[01:01:11] Zigga.

[01:01:13] If you

[01:01:13] want to be

[01:01:14] at my

[01:01:14] level,

[01:01:16] but

[01:01:17] beside

[01:01:17] that,

[01:01:17] so look,

[01:01:19] I do

[01:01:19] defend it.

[01:01:20] I think

[01:01:20] they need

[01:01:20] to settle

[01:01:21] on a

[01:01:21] formula

[01:01:21] for the

[01:01:23] Assembleds

[01:01:23] and really

[01:01:24] kind of

[01:01:24] just figure

[01:01:25] what,

[01:01:26] like,

[01:01:26] that out

[01:01:26] so we

[01:01:26] know

[01:01:27] kind of

[01:01:27] what it

[01:01:28] will be.

[01:01:28] Every now

[01:01:29] and again

[01:01:29] it still

[01:01:29] feels,

[01:01:31] all right,

[01:01:31] well,

[01:01:32] we're just

[01:01:32] going to

[01:01:33] put the

[01:01:34] intern

[01:01:34] with a

[01:01:35] camera

[01:01:35] there

[01:01:35] and just

[01:01:36] take some

[01:01:36] B-roll

[01:01:37] and get

[01:01:37] them to

[01:01:37] interview

[01:01:37] one or

[01:01:38] two

[01:01:44] you know

[01:01:45] what

[01:01:45] you have

[01:01:46] you know

[01:01:46] at this

[01:01:46] point.

[01:01:47] That is

[01:01:47] gold standard

[01:01:48] but I think

[01:01:48] that cost

[01:01:49] them a

[01:01:49] couple of

[01:01:49] million to

[01:01:50] make as

[01:01:50] well to be

[01:01:51] honest.

[01:01:52] But I

[01:01:53] do think

[01:01:53] the Echo

[01:01:55] assembled

[01:01:56] that was

[01:01:56] done earlier

[01:01:57] on this

[01:01:57] year for

[01:01:58] the five

[01:01:58] episode season

[01:01:58] of Echo

[01:01:59] added so

[01:02:00] much to

[01:02:01] the production

[01:02:01] of the

[01:02:02] show because

[01:02:02] you had

[01:02:03] interviews with

[01:02:04] the first

[01:02:04] peoples that

[01:02:04] were involved

[01:02:05] in creating

[01:02:06] the show.

[01:02:06] That's

[01:02:07] fascinating

[01:02:07] stuff.

[01:02:08] That's not

[01:02:09] just people

[01:02:09] sitting down

[01:02:10] going,

[01:02:10] I wrote

[01:02:11] the lines

[01:02:11] because I

[01:02:12] liked this

[01:02:12] and I got

[01:02:13] the part

[01:02:14] and I

[01:02:14] worked with

[01:02:14] these people

[01:02:14] and they

[01:02:21] can go

[01:02:21] in depth

[01:02:27] as to what

[01:02:28] was going

[01:02:29] on in

[01:02:29] their head

[01:02:29] when they

[01:02:30] created

[01:02:30] something

[01:02:30] for the

[01:02:30] character.

[01:02:31] That adds

[01:02:32] something to

[01:02:32] the show

[01:02:32] and we

[01:02:33] got a bit

[01:02:34] of that

[01:02:34] in this

[01:02:35] assembled

[01:02:35] documentary

[01:02:36] but it

[01:02:37] could have

[01:02:37] been better

[01:02:37] there could

[01:02:37] have been

[01:02:38] more

[01:02:38] they could

[01:02:39] have had

[01:02:39] it segmented

[01:02:40] like John

[01:02:40] said rather

[01:02:41] than it being

[01:02:42] 10 minutes

[01:02:42] in each

[01:02:43] episode

[01:02:43] or something

[01:02:44] like that

[01:02:44] or 10

[01:02:45] or 15

[01:02:45] minutes

[01:02:45] in each

[01:02:45] episode

[01:02:46] and we

[01:02:47] could have

[01:02:47] talked about

[01:02:48] that project

[01:02:49] and that

[01:02:49] writing.

[01:02:50] I've learned

[01:02:50] a lot more

[01:02:51] from listening

[01:02:52] to podcasts

[01:02:52] with Jack

[01:02:53] Schaefer

[01:02:53] about her

[01:02:54] process

[01:02:54] than I did

[01:02:55] her talking

[01:02:56] to the

[01:02:56] camera

[01:02:56] in this

[01:02:57] episode.

[01:02:58] Well to

[01:02:58] quote my

[01:02:59] notes I've

[01:03:00] got weirdly

[01:03:01] it didn't

[01:03:02] mention

[01:03:02] Wiccan's

[01:03:03] costume.

[01:03:05] And then

[01:03:05] it did.

[01:03:06] But then

[01:03:06] it's right

[01:03:07] at the

[01:03:07] end of the

[01:03:09] actual show.

[01:03:09] Ah they

[01:03:10] mentioned Wiccan's

[01:03:11] costume.

[01:03:11] Yeah exactly

[01:03:12] because like

[01:03:14] and that's

[01:03:14] the thing

[01:03:15] I was just

[01:03:15] okay because

[01:03:17] it literally

[01:03:17] went through

[01:03:18] Agatha's

[01:03:18] coat it

[01:03:19] went through

[01:03:19] Jen's

[01:03:20] stuff it

[01:03:20] went through

[01:03:20] Lillia's

[01:03:22] sort of

[01:03:22] jacket so

[01:03:23] like it

[01:03:25] felt strange.

[01:03:26] And they

[01:03:27] probably should

[01:03:27] have mentioned

[01:03:28] that William's

[01:03:29] costume on

[01:03:30] the road is

[01:03:30] different to

[01:03:31] the Wiccan

[01:03:31] costume later

[01:03:32] it's a

[01:03:33] costume that

[01:03:33] he wears

[01:03:33] throughout and

[01:03:34] there are

[01:03:34] elements of

[01:03:35] it that are

[01:03:36] interesting and

[01:03:36] detailed about

[01:03:37] his character

[01:03:37] but they

[01:03:38] probably didn't

[01:03:39] want to say

[01:03:39] it because

[01:03:39] they hadn't

[01:03:39] revealed by

[01:03:40] that episode

[01:03:41] that they

[01:03:41] were doing

[01:03:42] this 10

[01:03:42] minute short

[01:03:43] about you

[01:03:43] know that's

[01:03:43] what I mean

[01:03:44] exactly exactly

[01:03:44] the point if

[01:03:45] they were doing

[01:03:45] a documentary

[01:03:46] on the

[01:03:46] series they'd

[01:03:47] be able to

[01:03:47] talk about

[01:03:48] all of those

[01:03:48] things in

[01:03:49] segments about

[01:03:50] the show but

[01:03:51] because they

[01:03:51] were doing them

[01:03:52] as little slots

[01:03:53] but overall

[01:03:54] though I always

[01:03:54] love the behind

[01:03:55] the scenes stuff

[01:03:55] and this is a

[01:03:56] fun one there's

[01:03:57] some great ones so

[01:03:58] overall I defend

[01:04:00] this but again it's

[01:04:01] in the region of

[01:04:02] three and a half

[01:04:03] to four because

[01:04:04] they could do

[01:04:04] better I'd like to

[01:04:05] see more of the

[01:04:06] interesting details

[01:04:07] behind the show

[01:04:08] there's lots more

[01:04:09] to talk about

[01:04:09] there's tons of

[01:04:11] podcasts tons of

[01:04:12] interviews out there

[01:04:13] that you'll learn

[01:04:13] loads about behind

[01:04:14] the scenes stuff

[01:04:15] so I wish it was

[01:04:16] all just stuffed

[01:04:17] into a great

[01:04:17] documentary as well

[01:04:18] yeah on Disney

[01:04:20] plus not just on

[01:04:21] YouTube there

[01:04:22] have been over

[01:04:24] 800,000 views of

[01:04:26] this on YouTube

[01:04:26] though so it has

[01:04:27] it has massive

[01:04:29] legs for a

[01:04:29] behind the scenes

[01:04:30] documentary which

[01:04:31] are usually 40 to

[01:04:32] 50,000 on YouTube

[01:04:33] having 800,000

[01:04:34] people tune in and

[01:04:35] watch this hour long

[01:04:36] documentary on YouTube

[01:04:37] is pretty big

[01:04:39] for a show you

[01:04:40] have to have seen

[01:04:40] all nine episodes

[01:04:41] of to understand

[01:04:42] the documentary so

[01:04:44] that's pretty big I

[01:04:45] think so hopefully

[01:04:46] they'll put it back

[01:04:47] on Disney plus and

[01:04:48] give me the

[01:04:49] give me the

[01:04:49] logo image because

[01:04:51] I don't know what

[01:04:51] I'm putting as our

[01:04:52] logo image because

[01:04:53] I just usually use

[01:04:54] the image of the

[01:04:55] assembled documentary

[01:04:56] that didn't create

[01:04:57] one for this

[01:04:57] excuse me

[01:04:58] here here

[01:05:00] you're on there

[01:05:01] already Chrissy

[01:05:02] you're on there

[01:05:02] already

[01:05:06] that's it for

[01:05:07] our coverage of

[01:05:08] I guess all along

[01:05:09] the assembled

[01:05:09] making of documentary

[01:05:11] our Cauldron Coven

[01:05:12] quiz but it does

[01:05:12] leave us one final

[01:05:13] section our feedback

[01:05:14] section for the

[01:05:15] episode first up we

[01:05:16] have a little bit of

[01:05:17] feedback in from

[01:05:18] coffee and vodka on

[01:05:19] the series who said

[01:05:19] greetings fellow

[01:05:20] scare and back again

[01:05:21] defenders had a

[01:05:22] rewatch after the

[01:05:23] knowledge drop of

[01:05:24] the final couple of

[01:05:25] episodes and it

[01:05:25] went down much

[01:05:26] better I'm thinking

[01:05:27] John was right about

[01:05:28] the whole peppering

[01:05:29] the last episode

[01:05:29] through the season

[01:05:30] though either way

[01:05:31] easily one of the

[01:05:32] best MCU series

[01:05:33] produced post

[01:05:33] daredevil and

[01:05:35] Jessica Jones

[01:05:36] four forested

[01:05:37] BDSM basements

[01:05:38] red queens and

[01:05:40] sidebarred Salem

[01:05:41] twos out of five

[01:05:42] peace and take

[01:05:43] care coffee and

[01:05:44] vodka thanks coffee

[01:05:45] and vodka I must

[01:05:46] question how many

[01:05:47] forested BDSM

[01:05:48] basements do you

[01:05:49] know is there

[01:05:51] four of them are

[01:05:52] they forested in

[01:05:53] green forest

[01:05:54] evergreen

[01:05:55] deciduous

[01:05:56] you must tell us

[01:05:57] in the next email

[01:05:58] you don't have to

[01:05:59] tell us coffee

[01:06:00] like I promise

[01:06:03] yes and thank you

[01:06:04] coffee and vodka I'm

[01:06:05] not always right but

[01:06:07] I'm glad that you

[01:06:08] thought I was right

[01:06:09] yeah

[01:06:10] yeah it's a win

[01:06:11] and you were right

[01:06:12] for what's

[01:06:13] exactly

[01:06:15] great stuff

[01:06:16] thanks coffee and

[01:06:17] vodka

[01:06:17] thanks coffee and

[01:06:17] vodka

[01:06:18] we also got an

[01:06:20] email in from

[01:06:21] indigo

[01:06:22] who says

[01:06:23] hi guys I've been

[01:06:24] listening to your

[01:06:25] podcast since the

[01:06:26] start of Agatha

[01:06:26] and have been loving

[01:06:27] hearing your thoughts

[01:06:29] I have absolutely

[01:06:30] loved this series

[01:06:31] and I'm so sad

[01:06:32] it's over

[01:06:33] well I'm not 100%

[01:06:34] sold on the finale

[01:06:36] but overall I did

[01:06:37] love it and I think

[01:06:38] it provided some of

[01:06:38] the most powerful

[01:06:39] scenes from the

[01:06:40] entire show

[01:06:41] one thing that I

[01:06:42] can't help thinking

[01:06:43] is if Agatha's

[01:06:45] plan was to kill

[01:06:46] the coven

[01:06:46] that first day

[01:06:48] why on earth

[01:06:49] did she tell

[01:06:49] Lillia that she

[01:06:50] can only steal

[01:06:51] powers when she is

[01:06:52] blasted by witches

[01:06:53] one more thing

[01:06:55] that bugged me

[01:06:55] in episode 8

[01:06:56] was Agatha's

[01:06:57] ever-changing

[01:06:58] motives

[01:06:59] to the point

[01:07:00] where it felt

[01:07:00] a little clunky

[01:07:01] to me

[01:07:02] I get that she

[01:07:03] is manipulative

[01:07:03] and a trickster

[01:07:04] but she went

[01:07:05] from sincerity

[01:07:06] to betrayal

[01:07:07] and changing

[01:07:07] her mind

[01:07:08] to betrayal

[01:07:09] again

[01:07:09] to sacrificing

[01:07:10] herself

[01:07:11] it just felt

[01:07:12] like she didn't

[01:07:13] even know

[01:07:13] what her

[01:07:14] objective was

[01:07:15] in saying

[01:07:16] this

[01:07:16] I loved

[01:07:17] finally seeing

[01:07:17] Agatha

[01:07:18] show some

[01:07:18] vulnerability

[01:07:19] and the last

[01:07:20] two episodes

[01:07:21] made me

[01:07:21] emotional

[01:07:22] multiple times

[01:07:23] thanks for your

[01:07:24] coverage

[01:07:25] and hopefully

[01:07:26] see you

[01:07:26] for season

[01:07:27] two

[01:07:28] vision quest

[01:07:29] whatever

[01:07:29] is next

[01:07:31] thanks so much

[01:07:32] indigo

[01:07:32] glad you found

[01:07:33] us

[01:07:34] and glad you

[01:07:34] enjoyed

[01:07:35] hearing our

[01:07:37] thoughts

[01:07:38] about the

[01:07:39] series

[01:07:39] Agatha

[01:07:39] absolutely

[01:07:40] loved it

[01:07:40] too

[01:07:41] I think

[01:07:41] it's no

[01:07:42] secret

[01:07:43] that

[01:07:44] you know

[01:07:45] the finale

[01:07:46] was

[01:07:47] not necessarily

[01:07:48] sold to me

[01:07:49] I did like

[01:07:51] it

[01:07:51] and I

[01:07:52] think

[01:07:52] I'd

[01:07:53] certainly

[01:07:54] like to

[01:07:54] go back

[01:07:55] and watch

[01:07:55] it again

[01:07:55] after hearing

[01:07:56] coffee and

[01:07:56] vodka

[01:07:57] saying

[01:07:57] on rewatch

[01:07:58] that it

[01:07:59] sells a bit

[01:08:00] better

[01:08:01] and I

[01:08:02] think it

[01:08:02] could have

[01:08:03] just been

[01:08:04] that sort

[01:08:04] of sheer

[01:08:05] really

[01:08:06] between

[01:08:06] episode

[01:08:07] eight

[01:08:08] and episode

[01:08:08] nine

[01:08:09] but I

[01:08:10] certainly

[01:08:10] enjoyed it

[01:08:11] and I

[01:08:12] liked seeing

[01:08:12] the history

[01:08:13] of Agatha

[01:08:13] and going

[01:08:15] back

[01:08:15] in time

[01:08:16] to see

[01:08:17] how

[01:08:18] everything

[01:08:19] with her

[01:08:20] son

[01:08:20] Nicholas

[01:08:21] played

[01:08:21] out

[01:08:22] but yeah

[01:08:23] great stuff

[01:08:24] thanks

[01:08:24] Indigo

[01:08:25] I love

[01:08:25] that I

[01:08:25] can kind

[01:08:25] of see

[01:08:26] how it

[01:08:26] would work

[01:08:26] as an

[01:08:27] episode

[01:08:28] standalone

[01:08:28] on its

[01:08:29] own

[01:08:29] in the

[01:08:29] future

[01:08:30] as well

[01:08:30] because of

[01:08:31] how it

[01:08:31] starts

[01:08:31] and because

[01:08:32] of how

[01:08:32] it ends

[01:08:32] I really

[01:08:33] liked the

[01:08:34] finale

[01:08:34] and yeah

[01:08:34] why did

[01:08:35] Agatha

[01:08:35] tell

[01:08:36] Lillia

[01:08:36] that she

[01:08:37] can only

[01:08:38] steal

[01:08:38] Paris

[01:08:38] when she's

[01:08:39] blasted

[01:08:39] by witches

[01:08:40] I take

[01:08:41] it that

[01:08:42] because

[01:08:42] Agatha

[01:08:42] had spent

[01:08:43] 300 years

[01:08:44] convincing

[01:08:45] coven

[01:08:45] witches

[01:08:45] to

[01:08:46] attack

[01:08:46] her

[01:08:46] that

[01:08:46] she

[01:08:47] probably

[01:08:47] felt

[01:08:47] she could

[01:08:48] get

[01:08:48] all

[01:08:48] of

[01:08:48] these

[01:08:49] witches

[01:08:49] to

[01:08:49] attack

[01:08:49] her

[01:08:50] even

[01:08:50] if

[01:08:50] she

[01:08:50] told

[01:08:50] them

[01:08:51] I can

[01:08:51] steal

[01:08:52] your

[01:08:52] powers

[01:08:52] when you

[01:08:52] do

[01:08:53] I feel

[01:08:54] like

[01:08:54] she knows

[01:08:55] how manipulative

[01:08:55] she can

[01:08:56] be

[01:08:56] and how

[01:08:57] difficult

[01:08:57] she can

[01:08:58] be

[01:08:58] and that's

[01:08:58] why she

[01:08:58] thinks

[01:08:59] she can

[01:08:59] get

[01:08:59] them

[01:08:59] all

[01:09:00] to

[01:09:01] attack

[01:09:01] her

[01:09:01] even

[01:09:02] though

[01:09:02] she's

[01:09:02] told

[01:09:02] them

[01:09:03] that

[01:09:03] she

[01:09:03] will

[01:09:03] steal

[01:09:03] their

[01:09:03] powers

[01:09:04] I think

[01:09:05] that's

[01:09:05] probably

[01:09:05] just

[01:09:05] the

[01:09:05] overconfidence

[01:09:06] of

[01:09:06] Agatha

[01:09:06] I think

[01:09:07] that's

[01:09:07] part of

[01:09:08] it

[01:09:08] the part

[01:09:23] of

[01:09:29] I think

[01:09:30] that's

[01:09:31] something

[01:09:31] we

[01:09:31] learned

[01:09:32] throughout

[01:09:34] this

[01:09:34] like

[01:09:35] she told

[01:09:35] us

[01:09:35] pretty much

[01:09:36] a lot

[01:09:36] of it

[01:09:37] from

[01:09:37] net

[01:09:38] day

[01:09:38] zero

[01:09:40] but

[01:09:40] we all

[01:09:41] thought

[01:09:41] there was

[01:09:42] a greater

[01:09:42] thing

[01:09:43] happening

[01:09:43] a greater

[01:09:44] kind of

[01:09:44] mystery

[01:09:45] beyond

[01:09:46] what was

[01:09:47] happening

[01:09:47] and no

[01:09:48] it was

[01:09:48] all there

[01:09:50] she kind

[01:09:51] of laid

[01:09:51] it out

[01:09:51] she needed

[01:09:53] her power

[01:09:54] back

[01:09:54] and wanted

[01:09:54] to find

[01:09:55] the coven

[01:09:55] so she

[01:09:55] was

[01:09:55] going

[01:09:55] to kill

[01:09:56] them

[01:09:56] her purple

[01:09:56] back

[01:09:57] exactly

[01:09:58] exactly

[01:09:59] great

[01:09:59] stuff

[01:10:00] thanks

[01:10:00] so much

[01:10:00] indigo

[01:10:00] for your

[01:10:01] feedback

[01:10:01] yeah

[01:10:01] thanks

[01:10:01] indigo

[01:10:02] just

[01:10:02] jumping

[01:10:03] in

[01:10:03] really

[01:10:03] quickly

[01:10:03] after we've

[01:10:04] recorded

[01:10:04] we got a

[01:10:05] voicemail in

[01:10:06] from dr.

[01:10:06] bob phillips

[01:10:07] i know he's been

[01:10:07] really busy over the last couple of weeks

[01:10:09] but thankfully he was able to get a voicemail into us

[01:10:12] so i'm gonna pop it in here

[01:10:14] folks it's bob here

[01:10:15] i am really

[01:10:19] really really

[01:10:20] sorry i haven't got to re-watch agatha all along

[01:10:22] at least one more time before offering my feedback on the entire series

[01:10:27] but essentially

[01:10:28] wow

[01:10:29] what a show

[01:10:31] i mean amazing to watch through with the twists the turns the way that you're anticipating stuff and then it doesn't quite happen the same way and then when you watch it back and start to see how it was there all along and you just didn't notice it

[01:10:46] what joy

[01:10:48] what joy

[01:10:49] what depth

[01:10:49] what

[01:10:49] what getting at

[01:10:52] the terrors

[01:10:53] that are happening

[01:10:54] to our society

[01:10:56] and really pushing

[01:10:57] the idea of power and thought

[01:10:59] and grasping

[01:11:01] one's self

[01:11:02] in the world

[01:11:03] to go forwards

[01:11:04] but all wrapped up

[01:11:05] but all wrapped up

[01:11:06] in a whole load of sprinkly

[01:11:08] possibly mysticism

[01:11:10] maybe magic

[01:11:11] maybe just something

[01:11:13] we don't quite understand yet

[01:11:15] this has to be a story that carries on

[01:11:19] i can't wait

[01:11:21] i can't wait

[01:11:21] to see where we go

[01:11:22] with vision quest

[01:11:24] and if

[01:11:24] jack sheffer

[01:11:25] ends up getting the film series

[01:11:28] that she most richly deserves

[01:11:30] this was a superb series

[01:11:33] i deeply appreciated it

[01:11:34] and just in case there's

[01:11:36] any

[01:11:37] any doubt at all

[01:11:38] nicholas scratch

[01:11:39] was an entirely

[01:11:40] human

[01:11:41] being

[01:11:42] and i don't think

[01:11:43] had any magic

[01:11:44] in his creation

[01:11:45] at all

[01:11:46] if that was

[01:11:47] an area

[01:11:48] of debate

[01:11:49] superb pod

[01:11:50] chaps

[01:11:51] absolutely

[01:11:52] love it

[01:11:53] and look forward

[01:11:54] to the next season

[01:11:55] of the next thing

[01:11:56] that you'll be watching

[01:11:57] thanks so much

[01:11:59] dr bob

[01:11:59] glad you enjoyed the show

[01:12:00] as much as

[01:12:01] you sound like you did

[01:12:02] and as much as we did

[01:12:03] yeah absolutely

[01:12:04] great stuff

[01:12:05] dr bob

[01:12:05] i mean like

[01:12:06] i think that's it

[01:12:07] it's like

[01:12:08] this

[01:12:08] this show

[01:12:09] really

[01:12:10] really

[01:12:12] enthusiastic

[01:12:13] and i think it just

[01:12:14] brings out

[01:12:15] um

[01:12:16] such

[01:12:16] positive

[01:12:18] energy

[01:12:19] yeah

[01:12:19] and it's really

[01:12:20] interesting thing that you

[01:12:21] talk about actually with

[01:12:22] nicholas scratch as well

[01:12:23] just that you know

[01:12:24] actually born of

[01:12:26] biology

[01:12:27] ultimately

[01:12:28] you know

[01:12:28] normal human

[01:12:30] interactions

[01:12:31] although we don't see the

[01:12:32] father so maybe not

[01:12:33] entirely normal

[01:12:34] i still think it was death

[01:12:35] as the other mother

[01:12:37] mephisto

[01:12:37] well no

[01:12:38] death

[01:12:38] rio

[01:12:39] oh okay

[01:12:40] yeah possibly

[01:12:41] or mephisto

[01:12:43] maybe

[01:12:43] but in any case

[01:12:45] like the interaction

[01:12:46] um

[01:12:47] that

[01:12:48] agatha has with nicholas

[01:12:50] uh in the time that he has

[01:12:52] available

[01:12:53] yeah

[01:12:53] is

[01:12:54] like normal really

[01:12:56] um you know

[01:12:57] and

[01:12:57] as much as it can be

[01:12:59] it's it's that

[01:13:00] mother

[01:13:01] son

[01:13:01] interaction

[01:13:02] yes

[01:13:02] and the

[01:13:03] the anguish

[01:13:04] around what she knows

[01:13:06] about

[01:13:07] her

[01:13:07] son

[01:13:08] yeah

[01:13:09] is

[01:13:10] equally

[01:13:11] that

[01:13:13] human

[01:13:14] relationship

[01:13:14] and really

[01:13:15] really good

[01:13:16] and

[01:13:16] and i think i think the point is

[01:13:18] he's not coming back i don't think we're going to see

[01:13:20] nicholas scratch in some other time

[01:13:22] it's going to be

[01:13:23] maybe some of the flashbacks or

[01:13:25] anything like that

[01:13:25] yeah billy just keeps coming back

[01:13:28] but thanks so much for that dr bob

[01:13:30] we will hand you back over to chris uh

[01:13:32] from our

[01:13:32] previously recorded podcast to talk about the last piece of feedback from facebook

[01:13:36] yeah great feedback thanks dr bob

[01:13:38] and over on facebook we got a quick message from paul tncd who had this to say

[01:13:44] something i noticed when they were talking about the ballad

[01:13:47] it was both the song that agnes was humming in the car as she was driving to the location of the body in episode one

[01:13:53] and it was also the song playing over the titles of the agnes of westview

[01:13:57] the titles versions being sung by a male african-american voice and he sings down the winding road

[01:14:04] which is closer to the original version that nicholas sang

[01:14:07] this is of course all inside agnes's head

[01:14:10] so she would definitely know the original lyrics

[01:14:13] and it's another tip off that the song isn't quite what it seems

[01:14:19] thanks paul

[01:14:20] i didn't actually get the winding road bit

[01:14:23] yeah

[01:14:23] so that's really interesting that we had actually heard

[01:14:26] the original

[01:14:28] i knew that they were singing a kind of different variation of it

[01:14:33] um but yeah i didn't catch the the winding road which is very interesting

[01:14:37] yeah that's that that's the first words that nicholas sings are down the winding road in that

[01:14:41] so um yeah that it's a really cool touch um and again it's more seeing it after seeing the later episodes

[01:14:47] and hearing uh down the witch's road as many times as we have that when you hear the original go

[01:14:51] oh yeah of course it's the same song

[01:14:53] yeah it's a great it's a great kind of motif through uh this series yeah and uh good spot as well on the agnes of westview

[01:15:02] uh the the music there

[01:15:04] um i i hadn't heard that so again another little thing to look out for

[01:15:09] exactly

[01:15:09] on a rewatch

[01:15:10] uh great thanks paul

[01:15:11] absolutely

[01:15:12] thanks so much paul and thanks everybody for all of your feedback and all the entries for the coven cauldron quiz as well

[01:15:17] uh throughout the season been great keeping in contact with you

[01:15:19] uh during our coverage of agatha long and hearing all your wonderful thoughts and theories

[01:15:23] uh as we went through it and congratulations to connie labrada who won of course our coven cauldron quiz

[01:15:28] yes big congratulations connie

[01:15:30] yes absolutely and don't forget you guys too can win stuff next year when we do more pub quizzes when we cover more shows

[01:15:40] but we will be back in just a few mere weeks as we dive into what could be what might be what if

[01:15:51] and what is the final season of what if the third season uh tons and tons of mcu cast uh gonna be appearing in what if

[01:16:00] as they've done along lots and lots of major uh players from the mcu coming back to revoice their characters

[01:16:06] rumor has it including catherine han coming back to voice agatha harkness in one of the episodes as well

[01:16:11] very very cool and as i mentioned uh potentially our second uh vocal appearance from hershal ali at blade

[01:16:19] um and lots more like i'm telling you i have about a two-page list of casts that have been confirmed for uh

[01:16:24] for appearances on the on uh in what if season three an eight episode series this time instead of ten

[01:16:30] um but it is the final season starting on the 22nd of december with one episode coming out every day

[01:16:34] uh from the 22nd of december all the way through to the 30th of december um we don't know exactly how

[01:16:39] we're going to be covering it um hopefully we may get previews of us which will allow us to cover over

[01:16:45] the over the time uh if we don't we'll do it like we did last year and do a couple of episodes

[01:16:49] after the holiday period so like merry christmas exactly exactly yes but one thing i will quickly note is

[01:16:57] ladies and gentlemen there's a kaiju episode yes there is yes it's a pacific rim avengers big machines

[01:17:06] versus big monsters mm-hmm sure i doubt i'm like i didn't know i wanted to see a mecca

[01:17:14] captain america but i'm here for it and more importantly a mecca moon knight yes yes

[01:17:25] absolutely yes also confirmed that uh that oscar isaac is coming back to play um to play moon knight

[01:17:30] excellent as well so that's kind of cool now we'll have shang chi back in the second appearance

[01:17:34] since uh since the shang chi movie we are still waiting for shang chi 2 it will be coming in the

[01:17:39] future we will see uh shang chi back but uh at least we'll get his voice uh for the second season

[01:17:44] and i'm hoping we'll also get to see kihori as well the uh the character created for what if season

[01:17:49] two that'd be great um yeah yeah and who's voicing the zombies uh i don't know whether there is a

[01:17:58] zombie episode this this season because we have marvel zombies coming out next october uh the the

[01:18:02] spin-off show uh from this show so i don't know whether we're going to see marvel zombies in what if

[01:18:07] season three i know i keep thinking that there is marvel zombies in uh the third series of what if

[01:18:13] but that's mainly because they chopped and cut and interspersed all these different animated

[01:18:19] elements together yeah yeah so i probably just it is probably the marvel zombies footage it probably

[01:18:26] is it probably is but i just thought it was what if because it's kind of similar artwork yeah you

[01:18:30] probably think there's going to be a wakanda episode when that's eyes of wakanda which is always

[01:18:33] also coming out next year um yeah it might be but who knows only time will tell and you know what that

[01:18:40] means it's time to say goodbye and until what if thanks so much for joining us uh for all of our

[01:18:45] chats about agatha long hopefully you'll be back with us uh in the future for more marvel and loads

[01:18:50] of other shows that we're covering on tv podcast industries yes thank you so much from me and if

[01:18:55] you're looking for something to watch may i recommend legends of wak makeda season three

[01:18:59] only on prime video now go check it out why thank you chris yes uh very good i can concur with uh old

[01:19:07] christoph uh the big one that's been recommended to me is arcane uh which finished arcane season one

[01:19:12] and two i haven't haven't started it yet um but we've had lots of recommendations lots of people

[01:19:16] telling us we'd love it so uh i'm gonna check that to watch that spectacular season two i i so far first

[01:19:24] part one amazing i haven't watched part two or part three yet but yeah and it's all out all the

[01:19:29] end as well it's finished so it's full complete uh two seasons of the show out now there you go

[01:19:34] fellow defenders and again a big thank you to our quizzes as well for uh popping over those answers

[01:19:41] uh but until next time fellow defenders keep watching keep listening and of course

[01:19:47] keep defending bye bye

[01:20:22] is anybody going to the cinema to watch craven the hunter uh we probably aren't

[01:20:26] uh well yeah i i don't know i think it would be just for ab watch i guess oh yeah um it's it's kind

[01:20:32] of like you know spring watch and and awesome watch uh on the bbc it is bbc nature but it's ab watch

[01:20:39] yeah yeah mcu apps or it's not mc apps sony sony uh victory it's sony marvel ab watch

[01:20:46] i don't know i i'm hearing i am hearing good things well from the director of the movie he said

[01:20:55] please please those people that have been disappointed by sony uh sony movies and spin-off

[01:20:59] movies please come check out my movies you'll you'll like it yes but then again good things

[01:21:04] but then again we also heard the same thing from the director of fan four stick who said no no don't

[01:21:09] you worry about all the other crap that you've been hearing my movie's great and he said that the day

[01:21:14] before his trash movie came out so wait are you telling me mobius was not awful was dreadful and

[01:21:23] madame madame webb was awful hey the venom movies have been a good laugh but not a what a waste of 40

[01:21:32] quid to go to the cinema madame a weeb was so bad it circumvented itself flipped upside down

[01:21:43] saw that it was gonna flip i kind of became an okay chuckle like that's terrible that was like

[01:21:51] that was enough it got some belly laughs out of me i fell asleep not because it was on purpose like

[01:21:57] they weren't trying to get belly laughs out of me it just the shield alone with the popsy side

[01:22:04] bitchy it was terrible yeah it was just grim i'm asked for joker like it's not just marvel who

[01:22:12] are having this problem like joker follow a dude has come out it's available to buy i turned around

[01:22:16] to john last week and said do you want me to purchase that so we can watch it tonight and john said no

[01:22:20] absolutely not we'll wait for it to come out on normal tv like this is a dc property with the

[01:22:26] joker in it starring two massive actors and john was like nah not a chance so it's not just marvel

[01:22:33] having that problem or sony having that problem uh there's lots of problems with terrible superhero

[01:22:38] movies uh and they're not on on the mcu side thankfully well supposedly brave new world has

[01:22:45] gone back into re-shoots yeah it's like now we know a lot of re-shoots happen and that's a lot of

[01:22:53] it it's always like oh they showed it everyone hated because everyone likes to hate on mcu

[01:22:57] that being also said it's three months plus from release i would say it's locked i can't imagine

[01:23:04] they're doing anything other than tiny tiny re-shoots um yeah potentially the post credit

[01:23:08] which is always shot way later than the than the movie itself you know um yeah but you're absolutely

[01:23:14] right if there's any sniff of somebody getting in front of a camera again at marvel it's uh it's oh

[01:23:20] my god the end of the studio i mean the stuff around multiverse of madness was just crazy nuts nuts like

[01:23:29] i mean to the point dare i say i wonder sometimes whether these movie review journalists or tv review

[01:23:39] journalists even have ever stepped inside a studio like i just don't know you know not not the ones

[01:23:47] that write the headlines of it's the end of the studio because they're doing reshoots that's just

[01:23:52] standard process at the moment but since nobody cursed um i'm going to use this as our post credit

[01:23:56] so say goodbye again guys bye this was fun talk bye guys bye