Daredevil Born Again Episode 1 Review

[00:00:00] This is Defenders on TV Podcast Industries. We're back with Daredevil Born Again Episode 1. Well, I'll admit it's not entirely unpleasant to see you again. It's been a long time. Life has happened. You have children? No. You? I don't know. I tried to mentor someone, but... Well, that's the closest I've come.

[00:00:28] Um... Didn't she shoot you in the face? Yeah. Younger generation, what can we do?

[00:01:00] Welcome back, fellow Defenders, to TV Podcast Industries and to Daredevil Born Again. We're talking about Episode 1 of the brand new Disney Plus Daredevil season. I'm one of your hosts, Derek. Hello there, fellow Defenders. Yes, great to be back in the world of Hell's Kitchen and Matt Murdoch and Daredevil. I am, of course, one of your other hosts, John. This feels very special, doesn't it, John, to be back? It really does. Very nostalgic. Yeah.

[00:01:28] What, 10 years since we covered the Marvel Netflix Daredevil season 1? Yeah, we started our first Daredevil podcast 10 years ago. I think it was February 10 years ago when we did our first Daredevil podcast. And yeah, it's been quite a long time since we covered Daredevil. The last Daredevil episode that we covered was our 200th podcast episode. And just last week, we did our 900th podcast episode. So we've done 700 podcasts since the last time we covered Daredevil, John.

[00:01:59] Yeah, that is amazing. And here we are back welcoming our fellow Defenders. We've got our Mississippi McDonald's theme tune back again for our Daredevil coverage. And also we've got our gavel ready for our case notes once again. Yeah. Oh, that feels good, doesn't it? Geez, yes. And as always seems to be the case recently, unfortunately, we do have to say that Chris can't join us for these first couple of episodes of Daredevil. Sorry about that. Our foggy Nelson of the podcast can't be with us for unknown reasons.

[00:02:29] Well, the real reason is that he's covering Invincible with me and he only has time to do one podcast a week at the moment. That is true. We've got two more episodes of Invincible to go. Once those are finished, we will be back here with us for our coverage of Daredevil. So he is our missing avocado-in-law. Which is not a good thing given the opening of this episode. But I think before we get into our spoiler-filled discussion, as we are back in the world of

[00:02:54] Daredevil, for any new Defenders who are just starting to follow our Defenders podcast on TV Podcast Industries, please head on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com where you can subscribe to any devilish or heavenly podcast catcher of your choice. Absolutely. And we want to hear your thoughts about every single moment of Daredevil. We want you to email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or pop on over to our Facebook group at

[00:03:23] facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries where there'll be a spoiler post up for each and every episode of the show. We are covering these a little bit in advance for the first two episodes. So we will be talking about your feedback as we get into next week. And as the episodes release weekly, we'll chat all about your thoughts on the Daredevil Born Again series. Yes, absolutely. Let us get into our spoiler-filled discussion with the episode details. Derek, take us away.

[00:03:50] Well, we don't have the episode names as they're coming out in advance. I presume this one's just called Born Again, do you think? Maybe, yeah. Or Killed Again. Or Fiscal Fix-It, maybe. Maybe, or Foggy Fades Away. Foggy Fades Away. You know, like a fog as the sun rises. Wow, that's incredibly insightful of you, John. I guess those 700 episodes of the podcast have enhanced your descriptive abilities. But no, we're going to talk about the people that are behind the show.

[00:04:20] On this episode, the directors are Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead. We know them, of course, as directors on Moon Knight and Loki Season 2. They did four episodes, I think, of Loki Season 2 and two episodes of Moon Knight. Excellent episodes there as well. They are two of the showrunners for Daredevil Born Again, along with Dario Scardipane, who took over the lead role of showrunner after the previous attempt at getting Daredevil Born Again was kind of scrapped and retooled. He was the showrunner on The Punisher on Netflix, so he's coming with all that knowledge of the Netflix shows.

[00:04:49] And this whole episode was completely retooled after they had decided they were going to go a different direction from the original planned direction on Daredevil. So, Justin Benson, Aaron Moorhead and Dario Scardipane coming on board to focus it more like a sequel to Daredevil series from Netflix. Yes, absolutely. You can really tell, can't you? You can, actually. It really feels of that same vein, to be honest. More so than, I think, any other Marvel TV show so far. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:05:19] They've all had their style that's fit in with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the movies. And this really feels like you just walked out of the set of season three and went straight into season four. It's interesting. We were listening back to our 200th episode about Daredevil, the final episode of Daredevil. And we were speculating that there might be a fourth season of the show coming up. We're really excited about it and what could happen. And could characters like Bullseye come back? And would Wilson Bethel come back and play him?

[00:05:46] And here we are opening the episode with so much nostalgia and so many actors coming back and playing their previous roles. It's really interesting that this many years later, it's seven years, I think, since the last time we had a Daredevil episode. This many years later, this many people came back to reprise their roles for this opening of Daredevil. Yeah, absolutely. Cool. But John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for Daredevil Born Again, season one, episode one? Sure. The avocados at law, Nelson, Murdoch and Paige head out for a celebratory night at Josie's

[00:06:16] bar as one of their police contacts, Cherry, is retiring. While there, Foggy gets a call from a client he has stashed at his apartment. He believes he's under attack. While Matt suits up as Daredevil to help the client, Bullseye, an enemy from their past, assassinates Foggy and begins to open fire on Josie's bar. Daredevil quickly returns to the bar to tackle Bullseye, while Karen is unable to save Foggy.

[00:06:41] As Daredevil hears Foggy's heart stop and in the pain of Matt's loss, he throws Bullseye from the top of the building attempting to kill him. One year later, Matt is now working in his new law firm with up-and-coming lawyer Kristen McDuffie. He gives a victim impact statement at the sentencing for Bullseye as Karen Page returns to town. With Bullseye convicted for 17 life sentences for murder, the system has worked, but Karen

[00:07:09] isn't willing to stay with Matt after her loss. Meanwhile, Wilson Fisk returns from his time in Tamaha, Oklahoma. While he has been away, his wife Vanessa has been running his nefarious businesses. All connections to the Kingpin have now been removed, allowing Wilson Fisk to run for mayor of New York City. When former police officer Cherry fails to find any dirt on Fisk, Matt sits down face-to-face with him.

[00:07:37] They warn each other of returning to their former lives of crime boss and vigilante. As Matt goes on a date with therapist Heather Glenn, he hears the news that Wilson Fisk has become mayor of New York, and a lone graffiti artist paints a mural of Kingpin on a wall in Hell's Kitchen. I was trying to interpret that painting that was on the wall. It looked like the Kingpin with the mask of Wilson Fisk was being held in his hand. It was just an interesting image to end the episode on.

[00:08:07] It was like as if someone knows that Wilson Fisk is hiding behind the mayor title, I guess. It's a great way to end the episode. Very interesting to look forward to. What's your thoughts on this first episode and the return to Daredevil born again, John? I just thought it was really good. I think it's really straight in, and I think that opening is an absolute sort of wham, bam. All senses are engaged here. All emotions are engaged. I think it's really good.

[00:08:36] I love how they focus, like they did in the original series with Matt listening in on conversations and slightly blurring the image in some cases. So that's really good. I loved it when they did that the first time when you see him listening into the conversation that Foggy's having on the phone. You see the screen actually widens to full screen. So it's got those black bars on the top and bottom, and then it widens to the full screen when you see Matt focusing in.

[00:09:05] It's a really cool idea. It is. It's a great idea. So I loved all that. And I think it's the setup, but it's done, I think, really well in terms of reintroducing these characters, having a huge emotional gut wrench of an opener, and then setting up Matt Murdock in, I guess, the life that has developed since that tragic evening. Yeah. And also with the return of Wilson Fisk.

[00:09:35] So yeah, this is, I think, a really good episode one to get people who remember Marvel Netflix back on board, but equally, you know, to spin it about a bit and mix it up. Yeah, couldn't agree more with you. It does feel like we're back in adult Marvel again. Oh, definitely, yeah. Like when we were watching the Netflix shows. Not that there's been anything not adult about shows like Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which was very violent, had that kind of touch to it as well.

[00:10:03] But this feels like we're back in that universe again that we were watching on Netflix. It just feels more mature. I mean, it really does, it feels mature adult, yes. But it does have that absolute grounding of street level everyday superheroes that the original four from Marvel Netflix kind of had, you know? So that's what I think is different.

[00:10:29] You know, it's different when you've got sort of Westview totally encapsulated by hexes and a whole new imagery being projected by one person. And it's just a different type of approach, but it's the grounded feel, I think. You know, the sights and sounds of New York City are really focused in here. And that's partly because you're dealing with a character who is blind.

[00:10:56] So that sensory element, but it just really makes it very grounded. And also, of course, returning to film in New York as well. All practical sets and practical filming are mostly practical filming in New York, which is cool. Really, really good. But let's get into our way of covering the episode. We're going to talk about our top five case notes for the episode. So with case note number one, oh, bullseye hits his mark. I kind of mentioned this a little bit, but the opening of the episode, starting off the

[00:11:25] way it does, where the last season of Daredevil finished off with them writing down that they were going to have their own practice, that Nelson, Murdoch and Page were going to have their own practice. And here we see our three major characters from Daredevil walking out of their practice to go out for a drink in Josie's bar. Just the nostalgia flooding back in. It's just lovely to see, you know, we haven't really had any further time with these three characters since the Netflix show is finished.

[00:11:53] So seeing all three of them together coming out of their practice, seeing that it's very successful practice and then going back through Hell's Kitchen was a nice kickoff for the episode, even though it ends quite tragically. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, it really does tee up the emotional rollercoaster of this opening section of Daredevil. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's really good seeing that, you know, they've established their law practice.

[00:12:18] You know, you're hearing about Cherry's retirement from the police force, but you have this, you know, there's a little bit of snippets, which I wonder whether they'll come back into play through the season where you have Karen talking about, you know, police are leaving the force quite a lot, like 30% of the police force have retired, left, moved on, whatever. And so, you know, there's a little hint there that something's not quite right.

[00:12:48] But equally, then you are sort of engaged in all these different conversations in Josie's bar then. You know, I like the moment where you see Foggy speaking with Kristen McDuffie, who's in the DA's office. Yeah. And, you know, again, he's talking about Hogarth and... Hogarth Chow and Benowitz. Chow and Benowitz. And that law firm you have him then talking about Nelson, Murdoch and Page just with the

[00:13:18] first letter of each, you know, NMP. And just having, you know, the fact that here Foggy's probably about to get chewed up by Kirsten McDuffie, you know? Well, yeah, but he kind of feels like he's chatting her up. Yeah, exactly. You know, he feels like he's doing his thing. I like that. It was nice. Again, a nice little thing. And then you start to sort of have the concern from Matt as Foggy's had to take this call

[00:13:44] out, sighs, and they go to see what happens. But ultimately, Benny, I think, is the person who calls and is feeling threatened. But ultimately, the person who we see skewer a fly off a light bulb with a paperclip is trying to find out where Foggy is. So he's specifically targeting Foggy. It's not, it seems to me that. Yeah. That's the feel of it. Yeah.

[00:14:14] Because then Benny says, you know, he's gone now. He was asking where you are. Yeah. Now, that could also be the Karen and Matt as well. Exactly. Because after Bullseye does take the shot that fatally injures Foggy, he does say hi, Karen, and he raises his pistol to shoot her. But it is thwarted by the arrival of Daredevil just in time. But I think he's going to kill everybody in Josie's.

[00:14:42] It looks like he has, his plan is to take everybody out. But absolutely, Foggy and Karen would be the first targets. And then probably Matt if he was in the place. But yeah, the plan to use Benny to distract Daredevil from the place so that he can take out his closest contacts is definitely what he's going for. He's really brutal here. And they're doing a nod back to Netflix, Daredevil's one-shotters or one-ers, which used

[00:15:10] to be the five-minute no-cuts or a scene that looked like it had no cuts. And they try to do that here with Bullseye and Daredevil and their battle through Josie's. Well, yeah, that's it. I mean, it's a great fight actually between Bullseye and Daredevil. I love the fact that Bullseye seems to be creating a pin cushion out of Daredevil with all the knives that are sticking out of him. And I mean, it's a really brutal fight.

[00:15:36] As I say, it's like corridor stirwell fight, which is really kind of famous. Some of the CGI here is a little bit stilted as it kicks in. Like certainly as Daredevil swings in. I think as it goes from the outside to the inside, yeah, it does feel a little bit more CGI than I would have expected at the initial part of the fight. But as it goes on, I think it's just catching the glimpses of what Bullseye is doing throughout.

[00:16:05] Daredevil is trying to beat him back, trying to beat him down. But Bullseye is taking every opportunity to kill anybody he can around him. He's using snooker balls from the table or pool balls from the table to take out people as he goes. He's using all of his knives, as you say, to throw them at Daredevil, but also to kill other patrons of Josie's bar that night, you know? Yeah, well, still using knives. I mean, how one suit can hold that many sharp implements, I don't know.

[00:16:32] But nonetheless, he has a ton of knives at his disposal here. Did you see his, he has the kind of, I don't know what they're called, a bandana. No, it's the thing that wraps around the body that carries all the knives and it does get emptied as he goes up, as he makes his way to the stairs, you see him reaching for trying to find another knife and there's none left there. And then he just kills a couple who are coming back home with their shopping on the way up the stairs. So he has no respect for human life at all.

[00:17:00] This Bullseye, we know at the end of Daredevil season three, he had become that villainous character. He'd lost his partner. He'd turned on everybody around him and he, I thought he'd been arrested and put away actually at the end of, at the end of Daredevil season three. But here he is back out. So obviously some time has definitely passed. I think it's about three or four years since the end of that show and the start of this show. And we have Bullseye here taking out his revenge on Matt and his family, I guess.

[00:17:27] Well, as the judge says, you know, he was without remorse and, you know, it was pretty brutal and uncompromising the attack on Josie's bar. And I think what's great here then is that, you know, Foggy has been shot, is bleeding out. You know, Karen is trying to stem that blood flow and loss. And I think the ambulance has been called. You can hear sort of sirens in the distance. But ultimately, you know, at this time it comes too late.

[00:17:55] I love the fact that you have Daredevil and Bullseye on the roof, still fighting. And at that critical moment, you hear Matt tuning into effectively Foggy's heart stopping. And you have that sort of huge wrench of emotion, both with Matt and with Karen. Yeah. And you have Daredevil effectively, in a sense, as Fisk would describe, connecting with his

[00:18:25] dark side, you know, and effectively loses it and throws Bullseye off the roof. And, you know, that also freaks Karen out. She can see, like, she hears the flood behind her and is like... I don't know whether she's saying, oh, no, no, no, no, no, because of Foggy. I think it is part of that. But then the realization that Matt has actually also done the same thing.

[00:18:53] So I think it merges into that where she's, like, realizing he's effectively killed someone. So she thinks, so he thinks. Yeah. I am still surprised he is alive after that. Yep. But I like the wide-angle shot of him being thrown off. Mm-hmm. And the top of Josie's bar. Yeah, it was really good. It was really... It really was kind of impactful. Mm-hmm.

[00:19:19] Just go from that straight to sort of a close-up of him sort of on the street after that. But ultimately, this is a really sort of big, meaty impact of an opener with the death of Foggy Nelson. Absolutely. Absolutely. And effectively with ramifications for, you know, the remaining duo. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, it is confirmed later on in the episode that Matt was attempting to kill.

[00:19:47] He did think he was going to kill Bullseye by throwing him off the building. He wasn't pulling his punches. He wanted him dead. And I think you're right. I think the reaction from Karen is, oh, God, he's gone again. That's happened before in their history together. Yeah. She's lost him completely. So she doesn't want to put up with that. She doesn't want to be able... She doesn't want to have to go through that again, especially after losing her best friend in Foggy as well. Exactly. Yeah. One final thing that happens in this opening section as well that we should mention, you

[00:20:13] talked about Karen mentioning how many of the police force have retired or left the force over the last couple of years. Her numbers are always accurate, she says. And it's a huge percentage that are leaving. Cherry is the one that's retiring from the force. He says to his partner that the reason he's going is because the streets belong more to the vigilantes like Daredevil and White Tiger, he mentions. Yeah. Who we see on the TV screen there. That the streets belong more to them than they belong to the police officers now.

[00:20:40] And Cherry actually is on the top of the building when Daredevil throws the body of Bullseye off the roof. And then as he removes his mask and reveals it's Murdoch underneath, Cherry's there to see it. And so he now knows the secret of who Daredevil is as well. Yeah, absolutely. So let's get on to case note number two. We're moving on a year later. And Cherry's now working for Matt as well. He's kind of his undercover private detective.

[00:21:10] Yeah, absolutely. I like this idea. I like the investigator element in law firms. I think it's a really cool job. So I'm really pleased that Cherry is Matt's investigator. I like the fact that whilst Murdoch and Page couldn't continue as a law firm, I like seeing that there is Murdoch and McDuffie, the new law firm here as well.

[00:21:37] And again, you sort of introduce this one year later, you know, here that there is the mayoral elections going on in New York City. And I kind of like how in this little moment you have both Matt Murdoch and Wilson Fisk getting ready in their own ways. That was also another feature of the Marvel Netflix shows. It was.

[00:22:04] But I like that the kind of common thing is them choosing their suit that they're going to wear here. I thought that was a nice little touch here. It was. I was. It took me a while. And isn't it how the silly things that happen on TV shows that you're going, what the hell is that? Yeah. Okay. There's a nice bit of camera work, but I of coming, showing Wilson Fisk with his breakfast, which all I could recognize was the asparagus. And I was thinking, what is that white thing?

[00:22:32] Are you just talking about that as well? I was like, is it a big marshmallow? Is it a chicken breast? I was like going, what on earth is this? And then realized it was an egg white omelette. Yeah. And I only knew that because there was an interview between Vincent D'Onofrio and Charlie Cox, where Charlie is asked, what is Fisk's favorite breakfast? And he has no idea what it is. And eventually D'Onofrio says to him, it's an omelette and asparagus.

[00:23:01] And I looked at that the second time we watched the episode, I looked at it and went, that's not an omelette. I know. It's not yellow. So yes, it's an egg white omelette. It's a bit of a weird thing. Anyway. Yes. That's just a peculiar thing that I picked up on because I was like, what? I mean, it didn't look real, quite frankly, but there we go. Maybe it's something you have to try the next time we go to New York. Can you give me an egg white omelette and asparagus for $25, please? But the reason we're coming back a year later to Matt's life is because this is the day that

[00:23:32] Bullseye is having in court and he's going to be convicted of the murder of Foggy and everybody else that's killed at Jodie's bar. So Matt has to go and give a deposition or go to the deposition and give his impact statement, I think is what we'd call it here anyway. I'm not sure what it's called in American law, but I think that's what he's doing, giving his victim impact statement for the death of Foggy. A really emotional speech from Charlie Cox. And that's why he's so good at this role.

[00:23:59] He can play both sides of the character really well, that kind of violent, aggressive, on-edge character that he plays and also that really emotional person dealing with the death of his best friend. He does it so well. The speech itself where he's talking about, you know, justice will not be served today. There's no way to serve any kind of justice on what this guy has done because we'll never see our friend again as Karen comes into the courtroom.

[00:24:24] All I can hope is that there will be some form of punishment for what's happened is the way that he talks about. And he gets 17 life sentences. You know, I think the judge goes hard in here because also it's not just Foggy. Exactly. Okay. That's the focus here. But a number of other people that are taken out at Jodie's bar as well. And I do think it's also sort of double whammy there at the same time of all that emotion

[00:24:53] coming back to Matt Murdock and also having had difficult conversations with Karen because of this strange relationship since the death of Foggy that it's also the same day that Wilson Fisks announces his candidacy to run for Mur. Yeah. So that's kind of, it's just like, it's the horrendous day for Matt Murdock. But I think the interesting thing as well coming out of this was that in a sense, rather

[00:25:22] than pulling together as Murdoch and Page say, and maintaining that law firm in memory of Nelson and instead of sort of supporting one another, that actually both Karen and Matt have drifted apart really with this tragedy. And the relationship's really strained. I mean, to the point where Karen has moved to San Francisco. That's right, yeah.

[00:25:52] Like New York, but not too much like New York. Yes. Like I did like Matt's phrase that I didn't realize this tragedy would destroy more than Foggy. You know, it's basically ripped apart the trio. Obviously with Foggy dying, but Matt and Karen's friendship is just really, just hugely strained. And, you know, I would have liked to have seen a bit of that in some way.

[00:26:21] Because it is quite sort of shocking to see them really not being able to almost talk to one another. Yeah, absolutely. And especially if they were so close, there was even a little joke in the opening scene about Karen saying, let's get out of here. And Matt going, no, that would cross our boundary as friends. And you're part of the friend code. And as a lawyer, I can't possibly break the friend code. There was a bit of a joke again about their chemistry and their relationship. I do feel now, after hearing some of the behind the scenes stuff, I do feel that this was all added on.

[00:26:51] That the return of Debra Ann Wall, the return of Eldon Henson, and the return of the Avocadol, all that opening sequence is completely added by Benson Moorhead and Scarlet Payne for this new retooling of the show. And that we actually probably won't see Karen again in the series. I think this is all trying to give you a shorthand to show you how Matt's moved on and how he has a new group of people around him and not Karen and Foggy. Absolutely. And I think really when you hear about it, it's just simply that they couldn't get past

[00:27:21] each other's grief and weren't like Matt isolated himself from Karen initially. And then Matt, as he's kind of pulled himself together, was like, but you haven't contacted me. So I think it's all kind of, you know, based around their own sort of consumption of by the grief with the loss of Foggy Nelson. And I really like that. Do you know why particularly?

[00:27:49] Because it always happens in comic book stories and in any kind of drama that you have, that the male character who loses his best friend is the one that's suffering most and the female character is the one that always has to comfort the male character. It's always the way. It's happened in every single story we've ever seen. Karen is just as close, perhaps even closer to Foggy than Matt is. And I like her retort here where she says, I lost my best friend as well. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Matt.

[00:28:16] And I think there's also, you know, under this is the duplicity really of Matt being Daredevil as well. And that complicates it further for Karen. And, you know, so yeah, I kind of really enjoyed this scene between the two of them. It felt really wrenching as well. Exactly. And to your point earlier on, it is Karen going, she assumes that he's going to fall back into that persona of Daredevil.

[00:28:44] She gives him back the horn of his helmet that he lost in Josie's bar. And it is all about her saying to him, I can't put up with you also going out and being this vigilante in the streets of New York that I could lose you as well. So she's kind of cutting him off there and saying, I'm not going to be able to support you the way I did in the past as well as losing Foggy. Yeah, exactly. Great scene. Really, really good scene. And that kind of catches us up to wherever everybody is now, one year later.

[00:29:10] There is one other thing, I don't really know where to put it in, but there's a really cool framing mechanism that the showrunners have created for the episodes, the kind of setting up of what's going on in the city, where they're using the character of B.B. Ulrich doing the B.B. report on the street. And I think it's a really cool mechanism. It is a really nice way of doing it. I mean, it follows that whole thing of seeing the newsreader.

[00:29:36] And again, you have a lot of that here as well with the different points of the mayoral race that's done through the TV news coverage, which is also a really big comic book kind of element as well, which I really like. And this is just kind of another way of, in the era of people having their own YouTube

[00:30:00] channels that, you know, this is sort of the more modern or up-to-date investigative journalism that's being done by private individuals through YouTube channels rather than the big papers. Exactly. And, you know, there's old mainstream newspapers and TV news. Yeah. And so she's kind of doing all this documentary style snippets that come in over the course

[00:30:29] of the episode, like focusing on the rising crime in New York or even about why or whether you should be voting for Fisk or not. You know, so people say, yeah, he's a great guy, you know, gets things done. Um, and there's another lady that then comes in and says, why is he even allowed to run? You know, it's been said that he battered someone's head in and smashed someone's head in. Yeah. And so I was trying to work out what that is. Sorry to just take that off slightly as well, but I was trying to work out whether they mean

[00:30:59] where he killed the ice cream vendor, um, in front of Echo when she was a, when she was a kid in front of Maya, uh, when she was a kid, or is it the one that he crushed in the, in the door of his car in the Daredevil TV show? I can't tell which one it was. I think it could be either. Or just one of them has made it out, I guess. One of them has made it out. Exactly. Into the zeitgeist. Yeah. And also the other cool thing about Bibi Urik being here, um, for those of you who have watched the first three seasons of, of Daredevil, uh, on, on Disney plus or originally

[00:31:27] on Netflix, she's the daughter of Ben Urik, um, a major character from the first season and a major character from comic books. Uh, Ben Urik, um, was very involved in Daredevil and very involved in Spider-Man back in the comic books. So having his daughter here, Bibi Urik, I believe it's his daughter, maybe his niece. Um, we'll, we'll find out as the season goes on, but, uh, but having her here as a kind of a, an interstitial, um, presence in New York city is really cool. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Uh, shall we get on to our case note number three? Absolutely.

[00:31:59] Ah, Vanessa is back, John. She certainly is. Vanessa is, I guess, yeah, Madame Kingpin. Yeah. She has been looking after the crime and business interests of Wilson Fisk, Kingpin, uh, whilst he's been away. Yeah. Um, and indeed has made them, as she says, bulletproof. Um, she has made them, uh, unsinkable in terms of moving things around, um, so that all the

[00:32:28] other gangs are sort of in line are reporting, transferring money to the Kingpin operation. Yeah. Um, but also getting their percentage back, uh, all, uh, tax exempt, no tolls, um, on this. Uh, and, uh, she is kind of made this crime operation, absolutely watertight for cleaning the dirty money.

[00:32:52] Um, and I, I really like this and it kind of comes in though, where then you realize that there has been that time apart between Vanessa and Wilson Fisk through this. Um, he shows up at this meeting where effectively then all the other gang leaders just leave. Yeah. And she makes that point. I really like that. It says, you know, you still got the ability to make all the heads of the different crime

[00:33:21] organizations leave a room without saying a word. It is a real cool moment where she points that out. I think just to show the, you know, the reputation, the power of the Kingpin his, you know, that he, he holds over the others. Yeah. It's kind of the two different management styles. That's what she points out. He ruled by fear. Basically you do what I ask you, what I tell you to do, or I kill you or I get you killed. Um, she's ruling by rewarding them and giving them payments. And she says the payment breeds loyalty basically.

[00:33:50] So, uh, but an interesting little, uh, little Easter egg there, or I guess it's quite highlighted rather than an Easter egg. The two families that are there, we have the Red Hook mafia from Brooklyn, uh, or one of the five crime families, but the other crime family that's there, uh, it's just pointed out that, um, they've owned their, uh, shorter term, uh, crime family. And he, uh, the Red Hook leader points out that they've been in the business much longer his tracksuit. So they must be the tracksuit mafia who were very central in Hawkeye.

[00:34:17] The last time we saw a Kingpin or one of the last times we saw Kingpin, um, was in, uh, in Hawkeye as well. So it's that crime family who are sitting down at the table with, uh, with the Fisks. Yeah. And themingly though, that also Adam, who I think is the leader of that family that you see the look on his face when Wilson Fisk comes in and I guess slightly defiant, I would have said not totally, but almost he wants to still be seated and not to move, but it's

[00:34:46] kind of the wave of everyone else moving. He moves as well, but there's an, there's a look on his face and Wilson Fisk. So over this, um, episode with the interaction with Vanessa, you realize in that time being away, Vanessa has, you know, plays off piste and, um, like, but he knows about Adam. Yes. There was a relationship between the two. I didn't catch that. Very good job. Yeah. And she, but she says, but don't kill him.

[00:35:14] And he's like, he won't, you know, he's not going to do that, but you see that there has been this distance, even though, um, you know, with Wilson Fisk back from recovery, he says, you know, I was shattered and broken, but he knows two things. Um, whilst he was recovering, you know, his undying love for her, Vanessa, and what we could do for this city as he, you know, is happy that all the operations are bulletproof because

[00:35:44] this allows him to run from there. Yeah. But I do like that in his moment of triumph, you know, Vanessa is distant from him. She's sipping champagne, but effectively leaves. And he is kind of torn between receiving the accolades from, uh, and because of his victory, but also he's kind of trying to keep an eye on Vanessa. He wants her to be a part of it, but she, at least in public, she isn't, but they do meet

[00:36:11] up on the rooftop after his victory in the elections. Yeah. And I think that's partly to kind of create that distance from the two of them in case there is, um, some of the, um, nefarious activities could lead back to him. So he can possibly say that in public, they are slightly estranged. Um, maybe that's a way to do it. Um, but also because he'd been away and, you know, they, they, they likely reference the events of, uh, of echo.

[00:36:35] Um, they likely referenced the events of, of, um, of Hawkeye that he was very heavily injured, thought to be dead, um, returned, recovered, uh, while he was away in, in Tahoma, um, and returns after being spurned, I guess, by echo. Uh, and here he is back with, uh, with Vanessa. So Vanessa's dealing with all the business dealings without knowing whether her husband was ever coming back. So, um, so yeah, so it's a, it's an interesting situation that you got with them, uh, here.

[00:37:02] And it also, the final reference that they have there, it also references when, uh, in season three of Daredevil, that, that Kingpin was actually brought down by them finding the ties between, um, his public persona and the, and what he was keeping behind. So that was how he was taken down. So this time he's prepared himself. He's, uh, he'd make sure he's completely separate from, uh, from the gang, uh, work going on in New York. So, yeah. Absolutely. Uh, let's get on to a quick point, John, uh, onto case note number four.

[00:37:31] Dating Matt, um, cause it's Matt. He always has to have a love interest. Um, it has been a year, I suppose, since there was at least the tete-a-tete with him and, uh, him and Karen in, uh, in Josie's that particular night. But, um, his new partner sets him up in such a great way with one of her friends. I really liked this where Matt's being told that he needs to go out to, uh, to speak to, um, a potential client. Dr. Heather Glenn, the therapist. Exactly. Exactly. And she is being told by her friend, Kirsten, that she has someone who needs some, uh, help

[00:38:01] with trauma and needs some therapy advice. Yeah. Yeah. And for a minute at the beginning of this, when they sit down and they're having coffee, um, you find out that she's a therapist. Um, for a minute I was thinking, oh, is she actually just sending him, is Kirsten actually just sending her friend out to a therapist? Because Matt would be unwilling to go to a therapist. I thought it wasn't a date. I thought he was actually genuinely being sent there to talk about his feelings to a therapist because, uh, cause she'd realized how, how traumatic his last year had been.

[00:38:31] Well, it's the new confessional, I guess. Basically, yeah. Effectively. Yeah. So, uh, but it turns out it's actually, um, a first date. It doesn't go very well. Uh, I like specifically how they're calling out adult date lawyers. Your errors are terrible and you argue everything. And Matt goes, well, that's the sweeping generalization. She goes, see, look, you're even arguing that. Yeah, my point is exactly. Exactly. It's also the fact that, you know, it's the blind date that none of them knew about. And it's like, I'm going to kill Heather. And she says, could you, you know, make sure you do it properly for me as well. Like the two of them.

[00:38:59] Well, there is something clicks there between the two of them as they carry on the conversation, which is quite nice, I think. Yeah. Um, you know. Well, absolutely. I love that she points out, you know, she asks where he's from. Um, he gives her the street numbers an instant and she goes, oh, hell's kitchen. Tough guy. Why are you? And he's like the furthest thing from a tough guy ever. We, of course, uh, no, he's not. And he, like, he, he mentions about her coming from Queens and she's like, oh, how did you know? It's like the accent. She's not managed to get rid of it totally.

[00:39:29] Um, so it's, it's a blind thing. And she's like, wow. You know, and I like this and we see then, um, that they do go on a dinner date. I like she says we had a better dinner date than a coffee date. Yeah. Um, again, I just love the fact that as the walking down the street after the dinner date, you know, Matt is getting swamped by all the noise that is focusing on, um, Fisk, um, you

[00:39:55] know, from other people, from the TV, from conversations on the street. Yeah. But his own bias is tuning into all the different conversations about Fisk, because this is where he learns that he's won the mayoral race. Um, and it's interesting, I think that we get from Heather that she asks him, you know, you, you kind of seem fixated, obsessed by him. Is there a history there? You know?

[00:40:21] And in the end, um, it's kind of left there, but it's an interesting sort of pickup that she, you know, makes and that connection that she makes. And I wonder if that will be important, um, at some point. Well, Matt says they have cross paths a few times, but she also does say a phrase that a lot of people are saying at the moment about, um, let's say a wider election in the U S. Um, she says, well, you know, look, if the people of New York voted for him, they get what they deserved.

[00:40:48] They, they obviously want someone like Fisk in charge of New York. That's, uh, yeah, that's their ass. It's just interesting. The reason I pointed out is because we've just reviewed, um, the most recent Captain America film, brave new world. And while we liked it, we felt that it kind of lacked the teeth that it seemed to be going for. It's into pull all political context out of a very political movie that, uh, it seemed like it was edited out of it. And here we are two weeks later, the first episode of daredevil and they're going straight for the jugular. There's no doubting who Fisk is, uh, in this show. There is no doubting.

[00:41:18] And there's no doubting what he was in the comic books. The Mirafix storyline is a very famous comic book story arc. It has always been the case where we had this criminal rising up and taking over New York. Um, and it was based on, uh, on real politics at the time. And here we are, uh, taking into the show and it feels like they've got their teeth right here. They know exactly what story they want to tell with Mirafix, uh, taking over the city. Absolutely. Uh, so yeah, I'm, but I think with, uh, dating Matt and Heather, uh, I'd be interested to see

[00:41:46] how, um, she gets embroiled in Matt's, uh, life. Exactly. You know, love life or otherwise. Um, cause I suspect, uh, yeah. Um, it might be problematic down the line. People close to Matt don't tend to do very well. Do they? Foggy. Yeah. Well, that's it. The avocados have become the guacamole is at law. Oof. Smashed and battered. Oof, John. Oof.

[00:42:14] But we are finishing with dating Matt. We're going on to our last point. We've talked about it quite a lot, but let's talk about our final case note. Mayor Fisk. Um, time to talk about Mayor Fisk. Uh, as we said, we've talked about it quite a bit. We know he becomes, becomes mayor, but there's a couple of other movements that are in here that are really interesting. Uh, one that we definitely want to highlight because it's our big anniversary this year. We had our 10th anniversary of Gotham last year, our first ever podcast that we were covering and we have a character from Gotham, an actor from Gotham, Sabrina Guevara, uh,

[00:42:44] who played Sarah Essin, Captain Sarah Essin in, uh, in the first episode of Gotham, uh, is here now in the first episode of Daredevil. I just think that's a bit of kismet, John. I think it's kind of cool. Yeah. No, exactly. It is like part of his, uh, Wilson Fisk's, uh, campaign team. Um, I like to have Fisk can fix it. And that's his slogan. I think, uh, in the past I could have done a little tune to go along with that, but unfortunately

[00:43:08] due to sort of, uh, what, uh, the reputation of that person that was involved with that TV show back in the day. I can't really do it. Um, that's a British one. That's that. It is. Jim will fix it. Yes. Sorry. Cause I was, all I was thinking of was, um, was, uh, what's the, what's the cartoon character, John? The, uh, can we fix it? Yes, we can. What was it? Bob the Builder. Bob the Builder. Yeah.

[00:43:38] Um, but, uh, yeah, we see Sabrina Guevara as, uh, Fisk's campaign manager, kind of old school campaign manager, which we get here. Um, which, uh, we have kind of a, a new guy who's the, that Fisk seems to have taken an interest in. So we'll see how that goes. He's there simply because he got 2000 signatures and was cheap. Yeah. He's kind of the young social media manager who's, who's saying, but everybody's talking about him online. He's definitely going to be really, really, uh, yeah, he's definitely going to win this

[00:44:07] election and, uh, as a bit of a fair is kind of good. Look, it's not about social chat. It's about getting feet on the street and getting the votes in through policies like, yeah, yeah, old lady. That's not how it works. Well, that's it. There is that chat of, you know, you've brought in a number of unconventional, um, sort of new people, uh, onto the campaign team. Exactly. Uh, this is one of them, but also you see Fisk's, I guess, new right-hand man in book. Um, yes.

[00:44:35] I mean, ultimately you think he's just part of the campaign team, but I think when you see Fisk coming out of the TV studios and he's being, you know, book is passing, uh, all the people and he's the first one to see Matt Murdock and knows who he is and what he's about effectively. Are we thinking book is the new Wesley? I think so.

[00:45:02] One of our favorite characters from, uh, from the original, uh, Daredevil show. I am thinking that book is the new Wesley. Yeah. He just has that look about him as well. It looks quite like, uh, Wesley from, uh, from the original series as well. Uh, we should mention that the young social media guy is played by, um, James Gandolfini's son, Michael Gandolfini. Um, so, uh, quite a famous, uh, connection, I suppose, to the mafia side of New York and the Sopranos family. Uh, so interesting that he's the actor playing this character here, uh, working alongside.

[00:45:31] Um, but you started to mention it there. The other big thing we haven't talked about is the big scene between, uh, Fisk and, uh, and Murdock. Yeah. The face-off in the diner. Yeah. I love this. And I know it was in the trailer. Um, I don't hold that against them. This is the big, uh, first episode. You want to know that the two of them sit down together, uh, have this discussion. It has that feeling about it. Like, um, like Robert De Niro and Al Pacino sitting down in the heat and having that moment together in the diner. So, uh, it's really good. It's the lines being drawn, isn't it?

[00:46:01] Really here. Yep. Um, you know, it starts off jovial enough, but when I say jovial, it's kind of light, but edgy and a few little barbs. Like I do like, um, that, you know, Fisk says, well, I tried to mentor someone, uh, that someone being Echo and you have Matt going, but didn't she, uh, shoot you in the face? Exactly. You know, I'm like, it's, it's a barbed response to his kind of conversation about whether,

[00:46:30] um, you know, does Matt have kids or, and so on. Yeah. But also reveals that Matt's been keeping tabs on him because Matt wasn't anywhere near that situation. So he knows exactly what's gone on. Um, but yeah, there's some really interesting moments in there, you know, where, um, where Fisk saying to him, he does want to become the mayor of New York because he does love New York, um, and says a rich man is self-serving, but a mayor serves his city. Um, and what I love about Matt is Matt is a human lie detector.

[00:46:56] That's part of the abilities that he has is that he can tell when someone's lying. And I think he believes that at least Wilson Fisk believes this about himself. He believes he wants to become mayor because he wants to serve his city. And that's the interesting thing about Wilson Fisk's character. He has always believed in what he's doing, that he's doing the right thing. He never believes that what he's doing is the wrong thing. So, um, so what's interesting about their dynamic is Matt's trying to get him to trip

[00:47:24] up and say, well, really what I want to do is, uh, is free the cities and allow, allow all the villains to take over. And what he's actually saying to him is I want to bring the city back to the way it used to be, uh, and get rid of all the vigilantes is the big platform that he's running on. Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's, you know, cause this whole conversation, you know, really stops, starts to slip though. But, and it's, it's because, you know, Matt has his suspicions. He's concerned that Kingpin is back and he's just gaming the system. As you say, he's trying to find that out.

[00:47:55] Um, you know, I think, uh, there's a few like tense moments where Fisk kind of without being asked confirms he didn't have anything to do with Foggy's death. And I'm like going, okay, maybe that's just, um, maybe that's just, um, maybe that is right. Maybe it's not. Um, but also, I know there's still that thing in the back of my head where I'm going is just going to be revealed at the end of the series that, um, that bullseye was working for Fisk. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:48:21] And I think, um, you know, you, you have Matt really, both of them starting to caution one another effectively. Um, uh, that matters, you know, if you've changed, that's fine, but step out of line and I'll bring retribution, you know, whereas Fisk talks to, to Matt about the darkness inside the violent nature, uh, that can trans, can transform you.

[00:48:49] Um, and talking about throwing bullseye off the roof effectively. Um, but equally Fisk then moves it that he is not going to tolerate vigilantes and men in costume. Mm-hmm. So if he goes back to that, he will be pursued by the law effectively. Yes. There will be consequences if you go back. Yeah. So I, I kind of like how this kind of initial standoff, um, goes from a little bit like slightly

[00:49:17] jovial to some extent, but all the time it was always going to end off with this, um, seriousness and the, the, the, the boundaries being drawn. Yeah, absolutely. If you go back, if either of them go back to their old ways, the other will punish them for it. It's kind of the, uh, the rule that comes out of this. Um, but yeah, it is interesting when Fisk mentions, uh, about Matt, he's the one that

[00:49:41] confirms that Matt was trying to kill, um, bullseye when he threw him off the roof. That's the confirmation that we have. So again, a piece of information that Kingpin shouldn't know about Daredevil and a piece of information that Daredevil shouldn't know about Fisk, um, are both shared in this conversation, both knowing that this is their biggest nemesis. Uh, they have both kept tabs on each other throughout the years. So yeah, really, really interesting one.

[00:50:06] Uh, and yeah, as we said, he, he has become a New York mayor and, um, leaves everybody with a good night, uh, saying tonight and every night I love New York. So yeah, um, it's a massive moment. And I guess, I guess it's kind of summed up by the social media manager that you mentioned earlier on where he's going, um, Mare Fisk, that was the coolest thing in the world. And that's why he's gotten to this position. We're here watching him from the outside, knowing this guy is a real villainous character.

[00:50:35] And here he is, uh, sitting atop New York, uh, in that massive position of power over the city and what's Matt going to do about it? Um, yeah, really interesting. Absolutely. Good stuff. Uh, Derek, any notes for this episode? I think we talked through all my notes, but I'm going to leave the one note I do have, I'm going to leave it to you because it's a little call back to our old days. It is. Absolutely. We do have our, uh, whiskey watch, uh, our first whiskey watch of the Disney plus era in Josie's bar.

[00:51:05] Um, now one of those whiskey watches is our first question. That's right. But there is another one. Um, and whilst very blurry, I think we do have it as either summer hill or summer hall whiskey. Yes. And that Josie pours for cherry and, uh, Lieutenant Kim. Um, uh, so yes, uh, our first whiskey watch. I wonder if we will get any more. We, we brought this in with Jessica Jones because she liked her whiskey. She certainly does.

[00:51:31] Um, and, but we do get a lot of whiskey, uh, being poured out there in Josie's bar at the start of this episode. And, uh, a famous tale of a mythical whiskey, uh, which will be our first Josie's pub quiz question. Yes. But before we get onto our pub quiz, let's wrap up the episode with our usual. John, do you defend Daredevil Born Again season one, episode one? I absolutely do defend, uh, this episode of Daredevil Born Again.

[00:52:01] I give this four and a half red bullseyes, give you wings, uh, out of five. Uh, yes. Um, I thought this was a really strong opener in terms of telling you where everyone is, um, whether that's six feet under, uh, whether it is guacamole as opposed to full avocados, um, and how, uh, that they've recovered from a bullet to the head, um, and are back in New

[00:52:29] York looking to plot the next, uh, phase of the domination of that city, but this time through the mayoral race. So I really liked it. I felt the first opening, uh, great getting bullseye back. Um, you know, he is a psychopath and it comes across really, uh, well in that opening fight scene that the, the, the pain of the loss of, uh, foggy and how that sort of rips apart the,

[00:52:57] uh, the remaining, uh, members of, uh, Nelson, Murdoch and page, um, with, uh, you know, effectively through their grief of the loss of their friend. Um, and I really liked that final scene between Matt and Fisk in the diner. It's such a great face off and love that. I'm just intrigued by a number of the different things through here. You know, the conventional campaign manager versus the, the unconventional, uh, members

[00:53:25] of the team that Fisk has brought on, um, for his advisory team and campaign team, um, book, uh, interesting to see his role here. Um, but equally then the relationship with Vanessa, uh, with Fisk and Matt's with Heather. Yeah. Um, and, and indeed, uh, Kirsten McDuffie, um, because, uh, I'm really pleased you've got Murdoch and McDuffie as the new law firm. Absolutely.

[00:53:52] And maybe we can add a page to that by the end of, uh, the season possibly. Um, but yeah, for me, four and a half red bull eyes gives you winks. Nice. Nice. Well done. Well done. No trademark infringement intended. Excellent. Excellent. Derek, do you defend Daredevil Born Again? Season one. Episode one. Oh yes, I do. We're back, baby. I'm so glad we are back with Daredevil.

[00:54:21] Um, you know, this prospect that we could have had a fourth season of Daredevil this long after the first three seasons finished. Um, I never thought it would really happen. Um, it was saved by the fans. I think they're all giving credit for that, that without the fans pushing for the return of Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio and Eldon Henson and, uh, Debra Ann Wall to the, to the roles that made them really famous, really stand out. If it wasn't for the fans, it wouldn't be here.

[00:54:47] And I think when they had finished the first version of the series, they realized that what the fans really want is a follow-up to, uh, to the original Daredevil series rather than something brand new. So, um, I like how they bridged the gap between the two. Things have to be different. Things have moved on. The Netflix series weren't at their faults. There are things that are, that, that will be done better and can be done better. So I'm glad they took the opportunity here to give us a moment at least of nostalgia and then kind of use that nostalgia against us fans.

[00:55:17] Having them kill off such a major character as Foggy to kick this story into motion and break up the avocados at law completely, um, leaving Matt on his own with a brand new cast of characters around him and dealing with the familiar villain that is, uh, Wilson Fisk is a great way to start off the series. Um, I'm really interested in the story they're going to tell this season, uh, with Mare Fisk. It's one of the most, uh, interesting storylines from the Daredevil comic books. I really enjoyed it when I read it before. And there's a couple of other people that are coming up, uh, in the season that I'm really excited to see as well.

[00:55:46] So a great kickoff, uh, for season one, episode one, looking forward to episode two next time. Excellent stuff. Uh, I think without further ado, let us get on to Josie's pub quiz and the question for this episode of Daredevil, uh, the whiskey watch in question form, uh, for the pub quiz. Yes. Throughout the season, we're going to be giving out a question. Each episode of Daredevil, all you need to do is gather the answers together and email

[00:56:12] us at the end of the season to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with your answers and you could get your hands on some Daredevil born again goodies. Excellent stuff. Uh, question one for the first episode of Daredevil born again. What is the name of the 20 year old bottle of whiskey that Josie keeps behind the bar? Excellent. It's said in dialogue and I think we even see it being poured, uh, in the episode, but definitely said in dialogue. So you'll see it, uh, pop on your, uh, your subtitles, uh, in that bar scene and you'll catch the spelling of it too.

[00:56:42] John, do you want to give the question one more time? Absolutely. What is the name of the 20 year old bottle of whiskey that Josie keeps behind the bar? Fantastic. That's it. Justice is served. That's the end of our discussion about the first episode of Daredevil born again. We will be back next time with our discussion about season one, episode two of Daredevil born again. But if you want a different flavor of what we cover here on TV podcast industries, we're also covering the wonderful invincible over on prime video.

[00:57:09] We've got episode seven of that coming out this week, which we're looking forward to chatting all about. Uh, you can find that over on our main website at tvpodcastindustries.com as well. Absolutely. And of course, please support the podcast by sharing the podcast because sharing the podcast is of course sharing the love. Yes, it is. You can also as well leave a review and you can also support us through our Patreon and buy me a coffee accounts as well if you wish to. Exactly. Exactly. But we'd love to share the podcast.

[00:57:39] Absolutely. Can't waste to go on this journey 10 years after starting the journey. Absolutely. And feedback, fellow defenders. Importantly, feedback. We love getting your thoughts in on these great shows. So please send it in to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or over on our Facebook group in the spoiler posts at facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash TV podcast industry. Absolutely. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll talk to you again next time. Absolutely.

[00:58:05] Thank you so much, fellow defenders, for joining us in this very special show from Marvel TV until episode two of Daredevil. Keep watching, keep listening. And of course, keep defending. Feels nice to be saying that again, doesn't it? Absolutely. Bye. Bye.