The Penguin Episode 8 Review

[00:00:00] This is the Gotham Podcast on TV Podcast Industries, and we're here for the final episode of The Penguin, Episode 8, A Great or Little Thing.

[00:00:09] He was with him, Rex. He lied to me. He came home, acting all sad, like he was the victim, but he knew. My babies were drowning in those tunnels, and he didn't say a goddamn word.

[00:00:25] He had every chance, every goddamn chance to say something, to do something, anything, to stop it.

[00:00:30] He's a kid.

[00:00:31] He locked him inside. The room where they found him, the cops told me they had to pry the door open to reach him.

[00:00:40] If I had known if he had to, I could have saved them, they'd be here with me right now.

[00:00:48] But Oswald didn't want that, though. This is what he wanted, me, all to himself.

[00:00:52] I got the devil in my house, Rex. What the hell am I supposed to do?

[00:01:28] Welcome back, fellow Gothamites, to TV Podcast Industries and The Gotham Podcast, where we are talking all things The Penguin, Episode 8, A Great or Little Thing, the final episode in this series.

[00:01:44] I am one of your waddling hosts, John.

[00:01:47] I'm your other host, Derek. I guess I've been waddling. We haven't, we've been pretty sedentary for the last couple of months.

[00:01:54] Well, since I did my back-in, I've been waddling.

[00:01:56] Yes, definitely, definitely.

[00:01:57] I just now need the full metal regalia around my foot and leg.

[00:02:05] Hopefully not. You're not that bad. You've been walking pretty well the last week or two, which is good.

[00:02:09] Absolutely.

[00:02:10] But, John, what a way to celebrate our 10th anniversary of podcasting from Gotham TV Podcast all the way back.

[00:02:17] We came back to the land of Gotham for The Penguin, and this series has been absolutely stellar.

[00:02:23] Yeah, absolutely superb. Really, really enjoyed this series. I really want another one, another series, another season of this show looking at The Penguin.

[00:02:39] I think it's a great character, because for me, The Penguin's a great character and provides that kind of really natural link between the Falcons and the Moronis and so on.

[00:02:51] But I also just think he connects in really well with just other characters in the Batverse that I enjoy, like the Riddler and Mad Hatter.

[00:03:05] You know, like I really like those characters in Batman, and that's why I loved Matt Reeves' Batman film, because it brought the Riddler.

[00:03:16] Yeah.

[00:03:17] I love the Riddler so much. I love the Mad Hatter, and Penguin I've always really, really enjoyed.

[00:03:25] Absolutely. Well, you know, we did get them all in Gotham, and that TV show for five seasons, we've got all those characters, all major parts in there, so maybe they can do that.

[00:03:33] What we do know, though, for definite is, as confirmed by Colin Farrell this week, he will have five or six scenes in the Batman 2 movie, so this isn't the last we've seen of Penguin and the last cob, which is cool.

[00:03:44] So, and also confirmed by Matt Reeves, they are looking at other possibilities for other shows spinning out of the Batverse, out of the Batman movies.

[00:03:52] Excellent.

[00:03:53] And they will be dealt with in the same way, he says, as they've dealt with the Penguin show.

[00:03:56] So, not confirming a second season for this show, but saying that there will be other characters that will get the treatment like this show has, and if they do it as well as this, I'll be tuning in anyway.

[00:04:04] Yeah, no, absolutely. So, so good. I mean, really, I hope lightning strikes twice, because I wouldn't want them to think, oh, we've got a method here or a formula.

[00:04:17] This formula has been created by Lauren LaFranc, and I think at its heart is the Penguin, played by Colin Farrell.

[00:04:28] For me, it is then Victor Aguilar, played by Renzi Feliz, and it's Francis Cobb, played by Deirdre O'Connell.

[00:04:38] It's about family, and indeed, whilst not part of the Cobb family, the family also includes Kristen Milioti here playing Sofia Falcone.

[00:04:50] Absolutely, all four of them, as leads, quite frankly, even with smaller screen time, absolutely superb.

[00:04:59] And at its heart, the thing I've enjoyed the most is Victor and Oz's relationship, and that's why this episode hits hard.

[00:05:13] But all these dual relationships, Oz and Sofia, or Oz and Francis, have been really, really good.

[00:05:23] They've been so good, absolutely brilliant.

[00:05:26] Meaningful, impactful, like, full of great storytelling.

[00:05:32] Yeah.

[00:05:32] And that is down to Lauren LaFranc.

[00:05:35] What a great idea.

[00:05:37] Yeah, yeah, she's absolutely brilliant.

[00:05:38] What a great showrunner she's been for this show, and I hope we see more from her in the future, whatever she chooses to do.

[00:05:43] And I hope that what they take from this is setting something in the Batman universe between the movies,

[00:05:48] so when we get the end of Batman 2, maybe a character can spin out of that into its own show and seeing the success that Colin Farrell has had here with his version of the Penguin in this show.

[00:05:58] Even he said he was completely taken aback by how well-received it's been as well.

[00:06:03] So hopefully that's the method they'll take, that they'll spin out a great character and do a great story in a great way.

[00:06:09] Absolutely.

[00:06:10] But before we get into our spoiler-filled discussion, fellow Gothamites, please remember, if you haven't already done so,

[00:06:18] to subscribe to TV Podcast Industries over at tvpodcastindustries.com on any ornithological or gangster podcast player of your choice.

[00:06:29] Please also join our group if you want to send in some thoughts, theories, observations, or comments about each and every episode that we've covered.

[00:06:39] Just head on over to facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash TV Podcast Industries.

[00:06:45] And you can also send in feedback through email to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com.

[00:06:53] That's also the place to send in your answers to our Iceberg Lounge quiz.

[00:06:57] The final question for that will be coming up later in the podcast.

[00:07:00] And when we do our wrap-up episode on the Penguin in a couple of weeks' time, we will announce the winner of the Penguin goodies.

[00:07:06] Wah-wah.

[00:07:07] Let's get into our spoiler-filled discussion.

[00:07:11] Wah-wah.

[00:07:12] You're really going to miss doing that, aren't you?

[00:07:13] Yeah, indeed.

[00:07:14] He does it all the time, even when we're not podcasting.

[00:07:16] Batman 66.

[00:07:17] True.

[00:07:18] Absolutely.

[00:07:18] Burgess Marrow.

[00:07:19] Yeah.

[00:07:20] Indeedly, doodly, wah-wah.

[00:07:22] Doodly.

[00:07:24] Derek, what are some of the episode details?

[00:07:27] Well, this show, of course, is based on characters created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane for Detective Comics.

[00:07:31] Spinning out of Matt Reeves the Batman under showrunner Lauren LaFrancq.

[00:07:34] And this episode is, of course, written by Lauren LaFranc herself.

[00:07:38] The episode was directed by Jennifer Getzinger.

[00:07:40] This is her only episode of the Penguin, but we have discussed Jennifer so many times on TV Podcast Industries.

[00:07:45] She directed episodes of Agent Carter, Jessica Jones, Daredevil.

[00:07:49] And most recently, she directed the sixth episode of the Star Wars series Ahsoka as well.

[00:07:55] Excellent stuff.

[00:07:56] I love it when a plan comes together.

[00:07:58] Absolutely.

[00:07:59] I love when our wonderful directors from previous shows that we've loved continue on working in genre shows that we also love.

[00:08:06] Yeah, exactly.

[00:08:07] Yeah.

[00:08:07] Great stuff.

[00:08:08] And John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for The Penguin Episode 8, A Greater Little Thing?

[00:08:14] Sure.

[00:08:15] At the former Monroe Jazz Club, Sophia Giganti uses Dr. Julian Rush's experience to take Francis Cobb back to her youth.

[00:08:23] She recalls meeting with local gangster Rex Calabresi to discuss her son, Oz Cobb.

[00:08:30] She always knew that Oz was the one who killed her other sons, Jack and Benny.

[00:08:34] But despite being given every opportunity, Oz never took responsibility for their murders.

[00:08:40] Rex gives the struggling mother two options.

[00:08:43] Either nurture Oz's tendencies, give him purpose, and he could be something great.

[00:08:48] Or Rex will help her let him go.

[00:08:52] Planning to have Rex murder Oz, she takes him out to Monroe's for one final night.

[00:08:58] But as Oz promises to take care of her if she'll give him a chance, Francis calls off the kill.

[00:09:04] In the present day, Sophia uses his knowledge to encourage Oz to finally admit to murdering his brothers.

[00:09:10] But even with the threat of Francis losing a finger, Oz continues his lies.

[00:09:15] Incensed, Francis disowns him and stabs him with a broken bottle.

[00:09:20] But Francis has a stroke and falls to the ground.

[00:09:23] Using this as a distraction, Oz breaks free, killing Sophia's guards and GCPD detective Marcus Wise, honourable mention,

[00:09:31] before driving his mare to the hospital.

[00:09:35] Meanwhile, Victor Aguilar fails to convince the leaders of the other gangs of Gotham to help Crown Point following Sophia's car bomb.

[00:09:42] Oz Cobb calls him to the hospital, where Victor convinces him that he's important to the city.

[00:09:48] Oz makes a final play.

[00:09:50] He meets with Councilman Hedy at City Hall, telling him the car bomb was just the latest in the tit-for-tat battle between the Falcone and Moroni family.

[00:10:00] If the Councilman brings in Sophia Giganti, the city will be very grateful.

[00:10:05] All he wants in return is the ear of the influential people of Gotham.

[00:10:10] Elsewhere, Sophia has decided to leave everything behind, so she offers the gang leaders the Falcone's home, territories, and businesses to the one who brings her, Oz Cobb.

[00:10:22] The triad's second-in-command, Ling uses his relationship with Victor to get to Oz.

[00:10:27] As Sophia is burning her past, she arranges for Oz's transfer at another location.

[00:10:33] But it's a trap.

[00:10:34] Spurred on by Oz and Victor, Ling turns on his boss, Mr. Zhao, killing him.

[00:10:40] As Oz captures Sophia and turns her over to the GCPD, the tide of Gotham's underworld changes,

[00:10:47] as all the bosses are taken out by their disrespected underbosses and followers.

[00:10:52] Oz takes Victor back to the hospital to celebrate his final success with Francis.

[00:10:57] But he learns that her stroke has left her immobile and non-verbal.

[00:11:01] Unable to get the approval he sought from his mother, Victor commiserates with Oz.

[00:11:07] Realizing his closeness with the kid has become truly familial, Oz strangles and kills him,

[00:11:12] disposing of his ID in Gotham Bay and his last shred of weakness.

[00:11:17] Sophia is unresponsive as she sits in a cell in Arkham, once again under the care of Dr. Julian Rush.

[00:11:24] He brings her a letter from someone claiming to be her half-sister, someone called Selina Kyle.

[00:11:31] Now the king of Gotham's underworld, Oz finally sets the vegetative Francis up in a penthouse overlooking the city.

[00:11:40] As a tear rolls down her face, Oz dances with Eve.

[00:11:44] She's dressed as his mare and tells Oz how proud she is of him.

[00:11:49] He believes there's nothing left to stop him as, unseen by Oz, the Bat-Signal rises over Gotham.

[00:11:57] And there we have the cameo of The Bat-Signal.

[00:12:01] A nice little touch, actually.

[00:12:02] I thought it was great.

[00:12:03] And, you know, one of the things I'll compliment the show for is the cameos it chose to bring in from the movie The Batman

[00:12:09] are the characters who are on the edges of the usually central story, the Jim Gordons and The Batman and Bruce Wayne and Alfred.

[00:12:15] It's all of those characters that have kind of filled in the big world of that movie.

[00:12:20] So you can see why Oz has been able to be in the cracks around the margins, kind of until this moment.

[00:12:27] You know, I don't think the Bat-Signal is going up for Oz Cobb dancing with Eve at the end of the episode.

[00:12:32] It's just showing Batman is in the city.

[00:12:35] The whole point of the Batman movie was that Batman can't be everywhere.

[00:12:38] And why would he pay attention to Oz Cobb in this particular time?

[00:12:41] But he will pay attention to him in the future.

[00:12:43] Exactly.

[00:12:44] Exactly.

[00:12:45] And, you know, that's exactly it.

[00:12:48] It's whether he's big enough, critical enough to be on the Batman's radar.

[00:12:55] Yeah.

[00:12:56] Exactly.

[00:12:56] Or Sonar.

[00:12:57] And he probably will be.

[00:12:59] Yes, indeed.

[00:13:00] Well, let's present our case file for the final episode of the show.

[00:13:03] Yes.

[00:13:04] Let's get into our top five case notes.

[00:13:06] First up, case note number one.

[00:13:08] Surprise, surprise.

[00:13:10] I still remember.

[00:13:12] Okay.

[00:13:13] I chose the case note names after Sogs, just in case you start to get creeped out by the way they've written them.

[00:13:19] But the first one is, of course, I still remember because the episode opens with Frances going back to her youth through the abilities of Dr. Julian Rush.

[00:13:28] We finally find out what he was talking to Sophie about when he said, when you catch Oz, I'll use my talents.

[00:13:33] So his talent is being able to regress Frances back to the point when she found out or when she had the discussion with Rex Calabrese about what to do about her son, Oz.

[00:13:44] She's always known that he's responsible for the murder of his brothers.

[00:13:47] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:13:49] She finds a flashlight in Oz's coat pocket and knows that he was with them when they were playing hide and seek and not the story that he told her, that they had gone off to the cinema and he hadn't been playing with them.

[00:14:07] Yeah.

[00:14:07] So, yeah, that's kind of really interesting here.

[00:14:10] It is that notion of living with the devil.

[00:14:13] You know, she says, I have the devil in my house.

[00:14:17] What do I do?

[00:14:18] Yeah.

[00:14:19] You know, seeking counsel from Rex Calabrese.

[00:14:23] And I really like actually that, you know, he gives two options here.

[00:14:28] Yes.

[00:14:29] And you can let him go, which is effectively, you know, and he says, and I can help you with that, which is effectively bump him off.

[00:14:37] Yeah.

[00:14:38] You know, smother him under a pillow or, you know, kill him in some way.

[00:14:43] Yeah.

[00:14:43] Or that he can serve a purpose.

[00:14:46] And I like how Rex kind of plays this with people within his own sphere who come looking for him.

[00:14:57] You know, he says, if they're looking for money, money doesn't buy loyalty.

[00:15:02] Yeah.

[00:15:02] But if they're looking for a father, that does.

[00:15:05] Now, Oz isn't looking for a father because he's got you.

[00:15:08] Yes.

[00:15:08] You can.

[00:15:10] You've got the loyalty of Oz Cobb.

[00:15:13] So he can serve a purpose.

[00:15:15] So like Rex calls it about they can either serve a purpose or you let them go.

[00:15:20] And in this case, that's the other option that he serves a purpose.

[00:15:23] And there's so much in this scene.

[00:15:25] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:15:26] So much is going on.

[00:15:27] You know, all the way through the season, we've heard Oz talk about this Rex Calabrese, this huge character in his childhood, this person that he aspires to be.

[00:15:35] And here we actually learned that his mom had hired Rex or had asked Rex to kill Oz when he was a kid.

[00:15:42] You know, this person that Oz has looked up to could have been the death of him that night back in the day.

[00:15:48] Also love the touches from Deirdre O'Connell.

[00:15:50] I think are fantastic.

[00:15:51] The moment where she sits down at the table and there's just marks still on the table from her other kids.

[00:15:56] And it all comes across in how she performs.

[00:15:58] And she's not saying anything, but she's looking at these little dents in the table that are reminding her of the other children that the son that's still living with her killed.

[00:16:06] Yeah.

[00:16:07] You know, just really interesting touches in there.

[00:16:10] And also the other thing that comes out of it is Rex is saying she needs to nurture her.

[00:16:14] So that now explains why Frances has been this monster nurturing mother for the last 30 years or so.

[00:16:21] But yeah, no, I mean, and that's what's so good.

[00:16:24] She has decided, dare I say it, to use an original Batman movie phrase, to dance with the devil in the pale moonlight.

[00:16:32] There you go.

[00:16:33] Like she really has.

[00:16:34] We also see Frances, you know, the other side of that story of her taking Oz to Monroe's.

[00:16:43] And, you know, the previous tale of this was where it's kind of she snaps out of her grief, really.

[00:16:50] And her and Oz make the pact that he will, you know, provide for her.

[00:16:57] And he won't give up.

[00:16:59] And he won't give up on his mom.

[00:17:02] And effectively lavishes his mother with praise.

[00:17:05] And here we see, you know, don't give up on me, Oz saying to his mom.

[00:17:12] Because I won't give up on you.

[00:17:14] You know, dance with me.

[00:17:16] And that in a sense, either knowingly or unknowingly for Oz Cobb in that moment, he's made that pact with his mother.

[00:17:25] Yes.

[00:17:26] And sealed it with the dance.

[00:17:28] Exactly.

[00:17:29] As she kind of, you know, nods to Rex Calabrese to sort of leave off.

[00:17:35] And sort of stop the hit effectively on her own son.

[00:17:40] Mm-hmm.

[00:17:40] I love that she does that.

[00:17:41] And I also love that the music that's playing when they go into Monroe's, when we find them first, is Let's Face the Music and Dance.

[00:17:48] Which is kind of a little gag on the fact that she has to own up to this.

[00:17:53] She has to look her son in the eye and accept what he did and then nurture him in the way that Rex has told her to.

[00:18:00] I think that's really interesting.

[00:18:01] Also a cool touch that we know that Julian is the one in control here.

[00:18:04] Because we see Julian and Sophia sitting in the corner of Monroe's in the past.

[00:18:09] And then it cuts to Oz in the present day having been captured by the GCPD detective and brought to the present day Monroe's.

[00:18:18] And Sophia's...

[00:18:19] You also get the Cylon red as well.

[00:18:21] You do, of course.

[00:18:21] On his little device.

[00:18:23] Yep.

[00:18:23] To help with this recollection.

[00:18:26] Yes, you do.

[00:18:26] It's used in treatment of people with PTSD to help them explore what had happened in the past.

[00:18:31] It's a real psychological device or psychology device, I guess you call it.

[00:18:35] Yeah, very good.

[00:18:36] Yeah.

[00:18:37] But this was all a ploy from Sophia to get the two sides of the story so that the Cobbs could finally go at each other.

[00:18:45] She's hoping that she can tear the family apart by getting them to admit the truth to each other.

[00:18:50] I think this is so interesting.

[00:18:52] Again, Kristen Milioti is so devilish here herself trying to get the two of them to admit.

[00:18:58] She wants Francis Cobb to admit that she wanted her son killed and was going to have her son killed when he was a kid.

[00:19:03] And she wants Oz to admit he's the one that murdered his brothers.

[00:19:06] Yeah, no, absolutely.

[00:19:07] I mean, this is really intense, actually.

[00:19:10] And I mean, I love the way that it's played by both Francis and Oz here.

[00:19:16] That really, in a sense, it's who's going to break first.

[00:19:21] And it's not Oz Cobb here.

[00:19:23] Oh, yeah.

[00:19:23] It is Francis.

[00:19:25] But, you know, you have Sophia sort of probing and saying, you know, we know what you did.

[00:19:36] You know, you act effectively towards your mom.

[00:19:39] You tell her everything.

[00:19:41] And she acts as though she believes you.

[00:19:43] You have Sophia saying, you know, to Francis directly, what did you lose by keeping him alive?

[00:19:49] Not just her sons, but what in herself did she lose by keeping him alive?

[00:19:59] And even with, you know, trying to cut off Francis's pinky with the cigar cutter, you know, Oz is still not telling the truth about what he did to his brothers.

[00:20:10] And he keeps refusing it.

[00:20:13] It's her disease.

[00:20:13] Yeah, keeps refusing, you know, despite, again, being goaded by Sophia to admit it.

[00:20:19] And it's ultimately Francis that breaks here and telling him, you know, I already know.

[00:20:26] You know, I hate you.

[00:20:28] I hate you.

[00:20:28] I've always hated you.

[00:20:30] It's just the whole thing.

[00:20:32] The whole scene is fantastic for me because, you know, you have Sophia saying, you don't care about her enough like you say you do.

[00:20:42] You know, for Oz to his mother.

[00:20:45] Effectively, her pinky arm is coming off.

[00:20:47] And then, you know, you couldn't even tell her the truth here.

[00:20:54] And Francis is in bits here.

[00:20:57] You know, I should have let Rex kill you when I had the chance.

[00:21:00] And ultimately breaks a bottle and stabs him in the stomach.

[00:21:04] Yeah.

[00:21:04] And this whole scene is just so goddamn intense.

[00:21:09] It's a quadruple, a quintruple, an octruple espresso.

[00:21:17] It's so intense.

[00:21:19] It really, really is.

[00:21:21] And that moment when you realize Oz is not going to tell the truth, despite the fact that everybody in the room knows the truth.

[00:21:28] They've all heard it.

[00:21:29] Francis knows the fact that he's saying it's her disease that's making her think that she did it.

[00:21:33] And I'm going to let everybody in on this, John.

[00:21:36] While watching the episode the first time, John said, do you think that's actually true?

[00:21:41] Do you think that Julian has actually used his powers to convince Francis that Oz is the one that killed him?

[00:21:45] Because you're still at this point in the episode, you're still thinking maybe they're going to have this arc for Oz.

[00:21:51] That he is a kind of good guy that's just trying to make it up to his mom.

[00:21:55] But in that moment when Sophia looks at him and says, you don't love her the way you say you love her.

[00:22:02] It's only yourself that you love and you're looking for her approval.

[00:22:05] And that's it.

[00:22:06] That's all you want from her.

[00:22:07] You realize that the motivations behind Oz Cobb are really villainous.

[00:22:12] All he wants is his mom to say, I'm proud of you for being as villainous as you are.

[00:22:17] It's really interesting for this character and makes this show a villain show, not a redemption arc for a villain.

[00:22:24] Absolutely.

[00:22:24] Previously known by us.

[00:22:25] And I love it.

[00:22:26] Absolutely brilliant.

[00:22:27] I think that is it.

[00:22:28] You know, it's portrayed so well that you're just going, is this all just kind of made up?

[00:22:34] You know, or is it not?

[00:22:36] You know, and again, it's to the themes that we've had across the series about, you know, I've never really understood you.

[00:22:43] And actually by the end of this episode, we do hear Sophia saying, I finally met you.

[00:22:49] Like she understands who he is.

[00:22:52] You know, it's like that conversation between Sophia and Eve.

[00:22:56] You know, even then she didn't fully guess it.

[00:23:01] And it's not until this moment and later on that she, you know, the remaining pieces fit together about how despicable he is.

[00:23:14] Yeah.

[00:23:15] I mean, she says, what did you promise Link knowing effectively that Link probably, you know, maybe six months, eight months will be dead because it's a threat.

[00:23:25] Yeah.

[00:23:26] Potentially.

[00:23:26] Yeah.

[00:23:27] Yeah.

[00:23:28] One other thing that I also love, and it's an action beat, but it also shows you where Oz's mind is.

[00:23:35] After Frances has her stroke and sees her sons on the other side of the room, she falls, she collapses to the ground hitting her head.

[00:23:44] Oz uses that as a distraction to get himself out of there and takes his mom with him, of course.

[00:23:50] But it is used as a distraction.

[00:23:53] It's the moment where he goes, all right, here's my moment.

[00:23:56] He's been waiting for a way to get out of here, basically.

[00:23:59] So it's another little bit of Oz's mind.

[00:24:01] I know he did think he was saving his mother as well, but it is.

[00:24:05] He's always a step ahead or always thinking ahead.

[00:24:08] If I have an opportunity here, I'm going to do it.

[00:24:10] And he does.

[00:24:11] He takes out all of the guards.

[00:24:12] Luckily for Julian and Sophia, they get away.

[00:24:15] But he also goes out and puts a bullet through the eyes of the GCPD detective outside.

[00:24:19] I know we named him in the synopsis as well, but that's because he also appeared in The Batman.

[00:24:25] He's a big character for that.

[00:24:26] I thought that was hilarious, actually.

[00:24:29] Because, yeah, you're right.

[00:24:30] Not only did Sophia and Julian Rush sort of manage to escape the bullets flying from Oz, but Sophia has a gun.

[00:24:38] She's shooting at him.

[00:24:40] He's waddling out of there with his mom over his shoulder.

[00:24:44] And his stab wound.

[00:24:45] And the stab wound.

[00:24:46] And you have Detective Marcus Wise adding in his drug drops into his eyes.

[00:24:52] And then there's just his forehead explodes.

[00:24:54] And I'm like, that is...

[00:24:58] I just thought it was a really dark, humorous touch.

[00:25:02] It was.

[00:25:02] It was.

[00:25:03] And I liked it.

[00:25:04] I liked it a lot.

[00:25:06] Yeah.

[00:25:06] Anything else on this first case now, John?

[00:25:08] No, nothing from me.

[00:25:10] I think we should move on to our case note number two.

[00:25:14] The Cult of Personality.

[00:25:17] Our second song title.

[00:25:18] It is.

[00:25:19] It's a political song, Cult of Personality.

[00:25:21] So I thought it would be a good choice for Oz's big plan.

[00:25:24] What's he going to do now?

[00:25:25] He's on the run from Sophia.

[00:25:27] She found him once.

[00:25:29] What will he do?

[00:25:30] And it lands with Victor.

[00:25:33] Victor is trying to find Oz, thinking that he's dead in the car bomb.

[00:25:37] That hits Crown Point.

[00:25:39] He brings all the leaders of the other gangs, as Oz told them to.

[00:25:42] And they all make it known that they're not there for the Penguin.

[00:25:45] They're there for the drugs.

[00:25:46] And that place is blown up now.

[00:25:47] So they all leave him.

[00:25:49] But he gets a phone call from Oz and making him go over to the hospital.

[00:25:54] Victor goes there and talks to Oz, telling him that everything that he's done for Crown Point, giving people jobs, giving them respect for themselves, bringing money back into the area, all of those things are inspirational.

[00:26:06] All of those things make Oz a better person than he thinks he is.

[00:26:09] So it's Victor's urging that make him convince him.

[00:26:12] Yeah, he talks about the dignity.

[00:26:14] He says, yes, the money is important, but you gave them power back and dignity.

[00:26:21] Yeah, I really enjoyed this.

[00:26:23] And I think this is a really important moment in terms of just teeing up how then crestfallen I was with Oz Cobb later on in the episode that, yes, of course, we'll get to.

[00:26:35] But, you know, you see the loyalty and the passion and the proving of his worth of Victor here in terms of bringing the gangs to effectively help Oz.

[00:26:46] But it's too late.

[00:26:48] You know, the explosion's gone off.

[00:26:49] Yeah.

[00:26:49] And in the end, he's confronted with the greedy truth that is they're only there to make sure that they can sell the drugs and continue to make the money.

[00:27:03] Yeah.

[00:27:03] And, you know, they're here for the product effectively.

[00:27:06] I love both of the speeches that Victor makes in these scenes.

[00:27:09] The speech he's making to the leaders there is really cool.

[00:27:11] And then when he gets to punch in the stomach from laying the underboss of the triads, he tells him, look, you need to know your place.

[00:27:21] Just like Oswald has been told all of his life, Victor's being told, you need to know your place or else you could get a bullet and that'll be the end of it.

[00:27:27] You don't have a place.

[00:27:28] Yeah, no, exactly.

[00:27:29] Love that.

[00:27:30] And then when he's talking to Oz and convincing him, Oz just looks at him and goes, did you practice that?

[00:27:35] Yeah, no.

[00:27:36] Exactly.

[00:27:37] But, you know, he calls it, you know, what do you even stand for?

[00:27:40] You're all cowards.

[00:27:41] And you see the gang members getting the gun out and you have Link stepping in and making that moment.

[00:27:49] And that's where I think then in the hospital you get not only the next speech from Victor, but, you know, he's effectively telling Oz to pull himself together here.

[00:28:05] Yeah.

[00:28:05] And that it's not just me, but he can see from that exchange that Link also believes in him.

[00:28:12] And I think this is a really important rhythm in Victor's character here because you then have them formulating sort of this next big plan.

[00:28:26] And as Oz says, you know, Sophia is expecting a brawl.

[00:28:29] So we come at it sideways and they head off to City Hall to effectively mix up the situation, throw a bit of chaos, you know?

[00:28:39] And it is fantastic.

[00:28:40] I love this twisting of the truth and the lies together that Oz does to Councilman Hady, who we saw earlier on in the season, the one that Oz had convinced to get the power back on.

[00:28:52] And we also saw him in the Batman, but this whole thing that he's putting in front of Councilman Hady is if you give people the person to blame in this city, if you give them the person to blame for that big car bomb that happened, that big terrorist attack that happened, they're going to love you and you become the mayor.

[00:29:11] You become the person that everybody wants to lead them in this city.

[00:29:15] They want a hero.

[00:29:16] You give them the villain and you become the hero.

[00:29:18] So yeah, I love it.

[00:29:19] And the explanation that he comes up with, because I wanted to just call it out, what he says is the Moroni's killed Alberto.

[00:29:25] Sophia went crazy, so she killed Moroni's wife and son.

[00:29:29] Moroni is also in charge of bliss in the city, so Sophia killed him with the car bomb as well.

[00:29:35] So it's all blamed on crazy Sophia who just got out of Arkham Asylum going crazy because Moroni killed her brother.

[00:29:43] And, well, two of those things were Oz, right?

[00:29:47] So he just removed himself from it, put Moroni in his place.

[00:29:50] And then his explanation for what the proof is, is if you look down there, you'll find lots of bodies of falcones, which were Oz's men.

[00:29:58] And you'll find the body of Moroni down there, all in bits and pieces, who Oz killed.

[00:30:02] And so I love how he threads this lie together.

[00:30:06] And I love that Councilman Hades almost calls him out and he kind of says, how much of this is actually true?

[00:30:12] And Oz kind of looks up and goes, all of it's true.

[00:30:14] Yes, all of it's true.

[00:30:16] Well, absolutely.

[00:30:17] And I like that, you know, Councilman Hades there saying, and what is it that you want in return?

[00:30:24] What is the deal that you're offering here?

[00:30:27] And he says, to feel welcome in City Hall.

[00:30:34] You know, and I think with this, like you say, Oz's manipulation of the truth here is really, really good.

[00:30:43] It probably speaks to Councilman Hades' own manipulation of the truth and spin of the truth in politics.

[00:30:53] But, you know, I like that he kind of retorts back with, you know, if you want to be welcome, you have to look clean.

[00:31:03] Yes.

[00:31:03] And he goes, clean as a whistle.

[00:31:05] And I, yeah, I mean, all of this I just really, really enjoyed.

[00:31:09] I also like that it was cutting back to Victor really taking a bit of a gamble in answering the phone to Link.

[00:31:20] Mm-hmm.

[00:31:21] And it adds just some really great intrigue because you're kind of going, are they all going to come bursting in whilst he's speaking with Councilman Hades?

[00:31:29] Yes.

[00:31:29] And this is all for nothing.

[00:31:31] Will his plan be able to live through?

[00:31:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:31:33] You know, is he telling the truth or is there a betrayal here?

[00:31:37] Exactly.

[00:31:37] You know, what is it?

[00:31:38] Has Victor picked up on the signals correctly that Link believes in Oz to the extent that he would take a gamble on Oz as opposed to ultimately his boss, Mr. Zown?

[00:31:56] And absolutely at this moment I thought it was Link going, right, Victor, we need to get Oz.

[00:32:01] We need to take him out of there.

[00:32:02] You've got the way in.

[00:32:04] And I'm contacting you so we get the leg up in this moment, basically.

[00:32:08] But such an interesting conversation between the Councilman.

[00:32:11] And one of the things I liked about this, again, when they're doing these twists and origin tales like the Penguin is and like the Matt Reeves Batman movie is, when they're doing that, it's to set it up for something that you know of the character in the future.

[00:32:24] And with Penguin, with Oz Cobb, Oswald Cobb, the comic books, was a very wealthy person and had the Cobblepot family had a very similar stature in Gotham as the Wayne family did until they lost their money in some of the stories.

[00:32:38] So he was someone that would rub shoulders with the influential people of Gotham.

[00:32:42] Very often you'd see that version of him in the comic books.

[00:32:45] So here we have this version of Oz Cobb coming from a very poor family, very poor background, working his way up to the point where he's now made a deal to be able to rub shoulders with the influential politicians of Gotham and becoming eventually king of Gotham.

[00:32:59] So I love that they've done it this way.

[00:33:01] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:33:02] It's a nice twist.

[00:33:03] And even the Gotham version of Oswald Cobb was a different type of character.

[00:33:07] So what you have here is another take on how Oz gets into his position of that high level influential person in Gotham, which is cool.

[00:33:16] Yeah, definitely.

[00:33:17] Shall we move on to our case note number three?

[00:33:21] Absolutely.

[00:33:21] Burning down the house.

[00:33:25] I think this is cool.

[00:33:26] It was.

[00:33:26] It reminded me very much of the gremlins with one of the evil gremlins with multiple cigarettes in their mouth.

[00:33:35] Absolutely.

[00:33:36] This is really interesting.

[00:33:38] And I also love that we kind of talked about it a minute ago that Sophia has offered all of the old Falcone territories house, the businesses to whoever brings her effectively the head or the living body of Oz Cobb.

[00:33:52] And there she is the next time we see her walking around the house, taking her father's suits out of the wardrobe, throwing them on his bed, setting fire to them with his booze and his cigarettes, basically.

[00:34:02] And then going to his office, setting fire to his office with, again, all of his booze.

[00:34:07] Well, that's it.

[00:34:07] I mean, I actually really like how Mr. Zhao goes, like, what are you actually offering here?

[00:34:13] Like, there's a slight disbelief in his voice that she's going to offer all the means to control Gotham for as long as they can hold it in exchange for Oz Cobb.

[00:34:30] You know, effectively putting a bounty on his head.

[00:34:32] Uh-huh.

[00:34:33] But only one of them is the way she says it.

[00:34:35] Yeah.

[00:34:35] Exactly.

[00:34:36] So.

[00:34:36] First one to bring Oz back gets it all.

[00:34:39] But I love that she's setting fire to one of the biggest properties in Gotham, you know?

[00:34:43] And, again, it took me a second to realize what she was actually doing.

[00:34:47] It was going through each of the rooms in the house that reminded the most of Carmine Falcone.

[00:34:51] And that's where she's setting the fires to take down the whole house.

[00:34:54] I think that's, you know, this is her effectively doing what she said she was going to do in front of the family before killing them all.

[00:35:00] She is burning down everything to do with the Falcone family and walking away.

[00:35:04] This idea of the Giganti crime family that she's set up has plummeted so quickly after Oz and what he did that she's about to walk away from it.

[00:35:14] I just think that's really interesting.

[00:35:15] She's probably wanting to head to Italy like she was told to do by John Yoviti.

[00:35:22] Yeah.

[00:35:23] You know, interesting, isn't it?

[00:35:25] Yeah.

[00:35:26] The decisions and the turns that we make along the path, you know?

[00:35:31] Yeah.

[00:35:31] So, yeah, this was really good.

[00:35:33] Yeah, I just loved the kind of just the sense of unhinged-ness.

[00:35:39] I think certainly with the lighting of the three cigarettes, I just thought this was really good kind of beat within this episode.

[00:35:47] Absolutely.

[00:35:49] I have to call out the music again, John.

[00:35:51] During this scene, it's a cover of the song Where Did You Sleep Last Night by Sleigh Bells is the man that did the cover.

[00:35:58] But a very famous cover of that was Nirvana.

[00:36:00] And as we definitely remember, if you watched the Batman recently, Nirvana's song goes all the way through X that and many different versions.

[00:36:08] So I just liked that they chose a Nirvana song to underscore what's happening here with Sophia, even though it isn't their version of it.

[00:36:15] But I just like that.

[00:36:17] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:36:17] Good stuff.

[00:36:18] Let us get into case note number four.

[00:36:22] Yeah, our next musically titled case note.

[00:36:24] Yes, it's all part of the master plan.

[00:36:28] It's Oasis, John.

[00:36:29] It certainly is.

[00:36:32] Because underneath it all, we realize how much of a great student Victor has been of everything that Oz has been doing and telling him for the last seven episodes of the show and all the time he spent with him.

[00:36:43] Because Vic has made his own plan.

[00:36:45] And working on the standing on the shoulders of Oz the Giant who convinced all of the other leaders and all of their underbosses that his plan to get them all working together with the right way to run Gotham from now on.

[00:36:59] Vic kind of inspires them all to take out their leaders and join up with Oz Cobb.

[00:37:07] It's fascinating how this all plays out.

[00:37:09] I thought it was really, really well done.

[00:37:10] And it kicks off at the airport where Oz has been taken by Zhao and the triads.

[00:37:18] And it's Link that pulls the trigger.

[00:37:20] Absolutely.

[00:37:21] I like the fact that Sophia says, congratulations, Mr. Zhao.

[00:37:25] You know, it's the most short-lived congratulations ever as she sees the smirk coming across Oz's face.

[00:37:33] And yet you have Link shooting Zhao through the head as Oswald is making his ascendancy here without having to lift anything.

[00:37:46] And I just think it's really, really cool.

[00:37:50] Yeah, and even just Victor being the one that's pulling the gun on Sophia.

[00:37:55] You know, it was taken earlier on in the season we were talking about it that Sophia wouldn't go after someone like Victor because he's just Oz's driver.

[00:38:02] And it's just interesting that that whole turn in here is she underestimated Oz.

[00:38:07] He was the one that put her in Arkham the first time.

[00:38:09] And now she underestimated Victor.

[00:38:11] And Victor's the one that inspired and helped inspire the rest of the underbosses to overthrow their leaders in the city.

[00:38:17] So she's underestimated another driver.

[00:38:21] And then it does lead to the reuniting or the replaying of the old days as Oz drives Sophia out to the docks.

[00:38:32] I really, really love this moment.

[00:38:34] Oh, yeah.

[00:38:34] Like, just it starts off, you know, what do you say that me and you go for a drive?

[00:38:40] You know, she thinks she's going to her death.

[00:38:44] But Oz has got different plans.

[00:38:46] And I like the fact when she asks, you know, what did you promise Link to be turned and for him to shoot his own head of the triads?

[00:38:57] Oz just turns back and says, because he was tired of being overlooked, something that I thought you would understand.

[00:39:03] And, yeah, because, I mean, for me, I just I feel it's like he has understood her, but she's actually gone against type, even with all the promises of getting rid of the Falcone name, becoming a gigante, like almost doing very similar things to Oz.

[00:39:22] I mean, even saying, I'm going to, you know, mix it up a bit like Oz says, you know, that's what she said in terms of sending the car full of explosives rather than her actually bringing Oz's mom to him directly.

[00:39:40] You know, the both of them, in a sense, have been doing similar things.

[00:39:45] So he, you know, he's kind of saying, would you not thought it would have just been simply effectively to allow him to have his shot, you know, have his chance.

[00:39:58] This is where Sophia actually pins him down, where she just says, Oz Cobb, man of the people.

[00:40:05] That's what you need to believe.

[00:40:08] Yes, because the big difference between Oz and Sophia is even though she had that conversation with all of the underlings and the guys who weren't made men in the Falcone family,

[00:40:18] she still set herself up as the leader of the Gigante family and merged herself with the leader of the Moroni family.

[00:40:24] So she was still relying on some of the old ways, whereas Oz is telling them all, we're all equal here.

[00:40:29] We all get our fair share and we're and you're never going to be overlooked again.

[00:40:33] And yet he is also setting himself up as the person in control, but telling everybody he's the man of the people.

[00:40:39] Yeah.

[00:40:39] And I mean, you know, ultimately she says, I didn't see you, but your mom did.

[00:40:45] Your mom always saw a monster, you know, just connecting back to that whole moment in Monroe's.

[00:40:52] And I really liked that.

[00:40:53] And I liked that she's then thinking she's going to get shot.

[00:40:56] Yeah.

[00:40:57] And ultimately the close up on her face as you get the lights from the helicopter overhead and the police cars arriving.

[00:41:07] Because actually Oz is not going to kill her.

[00:41:11] He's making her, like you said, the villain and giving the people someone to hate the villain.

[00:41:20] And yeah, really, really good.

[00:41:24] I love this.

[00:41:25] And as you say, I think Victor also his part in it really, really good.

[00:41:32] Absolutely.

[00:41:32] Absolutely.

[00:41:33] One other thing in this section that I absolutely loved in the car ride when we see the other underbosses taking out their leaders.

[00:41:40] You know, they obviously took inspiration from some major crime movies and gangster movies and TV shows.

[00:41:46] This felt like the end of The Godfather.

[00:41:48] It's felt like just going out and whacking everybody across the city.

[00:41:51] And I love that it's just you see each of them being taken out by an underboss that we've seen in the background.

[00:41:57] The ones that didn't get lines, the ones that were in the background standing behind as the muscle for their leaders are the ones that we see taking out their bosses.

[00:42:04] And it's every single gang leader in the city.

[00:42:07] So cool.

[00:42:08] What a moment.

[00:42:09] Really, really good.

[00:42:10] But let's get on to our case down number five, John.

[00:42:12] Yes, this is the end.

[00:42:15] Mm-hmm.

[00:42:15] It's the doors, John.

[00:42:16] It certainly is.

[00:42:18] Yeah, this is really, really interesting.

[00:42:22] All the kind of threads have kind of pulled together here at this end.

[00:42:27] Some of them quite shocking as well.

[00:42:31] Oh, yes.

[00:42:31] You know, I mean, firstly, we have Sophia back in Arkham State Hospital.

[00:42:35] And you just wonder, is she going to go absolutely off her trolley here because of that rather than actually being killed and free from it all?

[00:42:48] You know, it feels like she's been denied her freedom, not only because she's not been able to take off in the private jet, but because Oz didn't kill her.

[00:43:00] And, you know, that look until then, Julian Rush comes in with a letter, which seems to suggest that he's offering her some hope here.

[00:43:10] But I'm like, what is the deal with Julian Rush?

[00:43:14] That sounded very Seinfeld there, John.

[00:43:17] What's the deal with Julian Rush?

[00:43:19] It's like, because maybe she's too gone or whatever in Arkham.

[00:43:24] She's gone into herself with what's happened.

[00:43:37] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:38] Working at Arkham, we know that he had left Arkham previously.

[00:43:45] Yes, because of the senior medical officer's treatment of Sophia.

[00:43:48] He's back now working with her.

[00:43:49] So either he's totally infatuated with her, but like has not lifted anything to help her.

[00:43:55] I'm like really intrigued with Dr. Julian Rush.

[00:43:59] I think it's the one bit that is not fully explained and could be included in a season two.

[00:44:07] It could be.

[00:44:08] It could be.

[00:44:09] Okay, we have some theories and we're going to talk about them.

[00:44:11] Number one, I love Theo Rossi.

[00:44:13] We love Theo Rossi.

[00:44:14] We loved him back in his days in Luke Cage.

[00:44:17] But he is an actor in need of a big breakout role, the one that makes you a household name in the Batman movies.

[00:44:23] And the same way that Paul Dano being Riddler made him a big household name.

[00:44:29] I think this could be leading to something for Theo Rossi in Batman 2.

[00:44:33] We kind of mentioned before he was in the background only with Sophia for so much of the season this season that you felt like maybe Theo Rossi came on late.

[00:44:40] So they just filmed some extra scenes to build him up a bit more.

[00:44:43] But his moments with Francis at the beginning of the episode where he's the one that's able to extract that information from her.

[00:44:49] Kind of reminds me a little bit of what the Mad Hatter does where he's able to get into the mind of other people a bit more than your average psychologist or psychiatrist.

[00:45:01] It feels like Julian's controlling him in some way.

[00:45:04] And just that mention of when you find Oz, let me use my methods on him.

[00:45:08] It makes it sound like it's almost a power in this more realistic, grounded version of the Batmanverse.

[00:45:15] So maybe the Mad Hatter is one of my predictions.

[00:45:17] That'd be cool.

[00:45:18] My other one is because we have two live-action Harley Quinns going out there.

[00:45:22] We have Lady Gaga playing Harley Quinn in the Joker 2.

[00:45:25] And we have Margot Robbie already played her in live-action in a couple of movies as well.

[00:45:31] I wonder if they're doing that story of a psychiatrist who falls in love with their criminally insane patient, the Joker and Harley Quinn, if they're doing that with Sofia Falcone or Sofia Giganti and Dr. Julian Rush.

[00:45:46] So is he Harley Quinn?

[00:45:47] A version of that, you know?

[00:45:49] Or at least that maybe is where the inspiration came from.

[00:45:52] But I think there's more to be seen from Theo Rossi.

[00:45:54] And I would love to see him get the big role that he deserves in a big movie.

[00:45:58] Because I know he's done loads of TV and people know him from loads and loads of shows and loads of work that he's done.

[00:46:05] But I'd love to see him get that big movie role that he so deserves.

[00:46:08] Because he's such a great actor.

[00:46:09] Absolutely.

[00:46:09] And, of course, that letter then that I mentioned is from Selina Kyle.

[00:46:15] Yes, it is.

[00:46:16] Who believes that she's a half-sister.

[00:46:20] She is.

[00:46:21] Oh, she is.

[00:46:22] Yeah, exactly.

[00:46:23] But she's writing to tell Sofia Falcone this.

[00:46:28] And this is really interesting because we know from the Batman that Selina Kyle knows everything about the Iceberg Lounge.

[00:46:36] So she knows what happened with Carmine.

[00:46:39] She knows he has a proclivity for murdering women by choking them to death.

[00:46:44] She knows that Oz was a very duplicitous character.

[00:46:46] So she knows all about that.

[00:46:48] So I wonder if, you know, Selina Kyle and Sofia Giganti, you know, could they team up and go up against Oz Cobb?

[00:46:55] It's a really nice, intriguing prospect.

[00:46:59] Yeah, because it feels like we didn't see the letter, of course, but it feels like the reason why.

[00:47:04] In the season two.

[00:47:04] Yeah, but it feels like the reason why Selina would reach out is because she feels Sofia is innocent because of all the knowledge she has about the family and the other residents of Gotham.

[00:47:14] So that's really interesting.

[00:47:44] Yeah.

[00:47:45] Like, I did it.

[00:47:46] I'm the effing king and all this kind of stuff.

[00:47:49] And it's almost like it's the last bit of power that Frances has is that she can't actually verbalize her approval to give him what he feels he wants.

[00:48:01] Or is the only reason that he has had for keeping her around.

[00:48:06] Exactly.

[00:48:06] And, you know, so he wants to fulfill that promise that he made to her when he was a kid.

[00:48:11] And it doesn't matter how sick she gets, how ill she gets, how much she needs to have medical help in the home at all times.

[00:48:17] He wants to keep her close to him so that she can say, I'm proud of you for giving me that thing that you told me you'd give me when you're a kid.

[00:48:25] You know what I mean?

[00:48:26] It's more like that conversation that they had with Sofia.

[00:48:29] It's more about that than him wanting to keep his mom around because he loves her so much and wants to keep her safe.

[00:48:34] It's that he wants her to be around when he becomes the big shot that he promised he would become.

[00:48:38] Absolutely.

[00:48:39] And she cannot respond to him.

[00:48:40] Absolutely.

[00:48:41] What a moment.

[00:48:42] And that's when you realize he's despicable.

[00:48:44] And even just later on where he's like, hey, you've got your view, but she's effectively in a coma state, you know.

[00:48:54] I wanted to talk about that.

[00:48:56] Okay.

[00:48:57] Interesting.

[00:48:57] I wonder if Frances is actually, I think you said it in the synopsis, if she's immobile and nonverbal rather than unable to understand what's going on around her.

[00:49:10] Because I feel like that would almost be the prophecy of what happened between herself and Oz earlier on in the season when she was in the bath and couldn't get out.

[00:49:19] And she told Oz, I want you to end my life if I get to the point where I'm in a vegetative state and have only the awareness to know that I can't do anything I want to do.

[00:49:33] And she's there in the bed with this penthouse view that he promised her years ago as a kid.

[00:49:39] And you see the tears coming down her eyes when Oz is looking at her and saying, how are you doing today, ma?

[00:49:45] Probably a bit better than yesterday.

[00:49:47] Yeah.

[00:49:47] And she knows she's in that state exactly as she had foreseen.

[00:49:51] And Oz didn't carry out the promise that he made to her to end her life.

[00:49:55] But that to me has that sort of darkly poetic sense to it.

[00:50:02] And again, it's as I say here, these final moments, you really are just being told how despicable of a person this is.

[00:50:11] Let alone that we know that he killed his brothers.

[00:50:13] Yeah.

[00:50:13] He hid the truth from his mother.

[00:50:15] Isn't able to verbalize that truth in any way.

[00:50:18] It's so ingrained and has become the truth probably even in his own mind.

[00:50:24] Self-deluded himself.

[00:50:25] Yeah.

[00:50:25] Yes, he does know.

[00:50:26] But the tale he's spun that they went off to the cinema, he left them and they were fine, has deluded him.

[00:50:36] Yeah.

[00:50:36] I think it is.

[00:50:38] This is really like significant sort of wrap ups, but in a way that paints Oz in the worst light.

[00:50:45] And possibly in full light, in full truth revealing light.

[00:50:50] And I think, you know, coming to the one that really, really also hurt me was killing Victor, strangling him.

[00:51:00] You know, effectively, Victor is too loyal, too close, too good.

[00:51:04] And, you know, there was a moment where I think did Victor seal his own demise in being strangled because he says you're like family to me.

[00:51:19] That when he says that to Oz and it's not really.

[00:51:23] Oz is set on a path here.

[00:51:26] Yes.

[00:51:26] He's like saying I couldn't do any of this without you.

[00:51:29] You did good, kid.

[00:51:32] And, you know, he says you've been there by my side, but I can't bring me with you this time.

[00:51:39] There is a respect there in a sense from Oz.

[00:51:43] Oh, absolutely.

[00:51:43] But it's the respect of knowing who's your threat and taking them out before they do.

[00:51:54] Well, absolutely.

[00:51:55] He says family brings you strength, but also weakness.

[00:51:58] And I can't have that anymore.

[00:51:59] Yeah.

[00:52:00] What's been happening throughout the series really is that Sophia's come at him through his family.

[00:52:04] She's been she's come at him through his mother.

[00:52:07] He doesn't have any other family.

[00:52:08] And in fact, had told everybody that his mother was dead.

[00:52:12] Right.

[00:52:12] We heard that earlier on in the season.

[00:52:14] He'd already told Sophia that Francis was dead.

[00:52:15] So she wasn't even looking for Francis until she found out that she was alive.

[00:52:20] And somebody else in the future will try and twist that knife.

[00:52:23] Somebody else will try and take Victor, who has now become the only family that is around and available to Oz.

[00:52:30] So he takes him out.

[00:52:31] But that's it.

[00:52:32] I mean, this whole end, it's really Shakespearean.

[00:52:36] I mean, in terms of what this, you know, this is Julius Caesar to some extent.

[00:52:42] But actually, it's Caesar taking Brutus out before he can do anything.

[00:52:49] And I think that's the point of it.

[00:52:50] Yeah.

[00:52:51] But just the added, I don't know, kick in the teeth almost of it, where he takes Victor's wallet from his dead body,

[00:52:58] takes the money out of the wallet and takes the driving license,

[00:53:01] which was the first thing he read when Victor was driving over the first time,

[00:53:05] the driver's license that Victor had in his wallet,

[00:53:08] and throws that driver's license into Gotham Bay.

[00:53:11] It's just the disrespect that he leaves behind for Victor Aguilar.

[00:53:15] He told him in the past, your name and my name will be written in lights.

[00:53:19] People will tell stories about us.

[00:53:21] Now, this kid who has no family, he's removed his identity,

[00:53:24] has no family left in the city, and nobody will ever know who this body is.

[00:53:28] I can't imagine he has fingerprints on fire or anything.

[00:53:32] Whilst he's saying you're a good man with a good heart,

[00:53:36] no, it's whilst he's strangling him.

[00:53:37] But it is.

[00:53:38] It's almost so Titus Andronicus.

[00:53:41] It's the power play.

[00:53:45] It's the politics play.

[00:53:47] It's the wheeling and dealing.

[00:53:50] It is that it's all about him.

[00:53:53] And I think not only that,

[00:53:54] there's a real Oedipus complex here,

[00:53:58] then later when you see Eve,

[00:54:01] who really does,

[00:54:03] I mean, the makeup, the dress,

[00:54:05] the hairstyling,

[00:54:06] really great.

[00:54:08] And that,

[00:54:09] you know,

[00:54:09] from that distance,

[00:54:10] she looks like Francis Cobb.

[00:54:13] Mm-hmm.

[00:54:13] But that Oedipus complex,

[00:54:16] really,

[00:54:16] and alluded to by Rex Calabresi as well.

[00:54:20] Yeah.

[00:54:22] That's Cobb's father figure,

[00:54:25] his mother.

[00:54:25] Yeah.

[00:54:25] And again,

[00:54:28] really quite unsettling,

[00:54:29] slightly disturbing,

[00:54:31] after he's just been in with his own actual mother,

[00:54:35] who's in this coma.

[00:54:37] And there you have Eve dressed like his mother,

[00:54:40] being asked to pretend to be his mother.

[00:54:43] Mm-hmm.

[00:54:43] And, you know,

[00:54:45] being told to whisper the pep talk,

[00:54:50] the sweet nothings,

[00:54:52] into the ear of Oz Cobb.

[00:54:55] Tell him she's proud of him,

[00:54:57] exactly what Oz wanted his mom to say.

[00:54:59] Yes, exactly.

[00:55:00] All these years.

[00:55:02] It's really unsettling.

[00:55:04] And wasn't Colin Farrell right when he told us that by the end of this series,

[00:55:07] everybody's going to hate Penguin.

[00:55:09] Yeah.

[00:55:09] Nobody's going to want to be around this guy.

[00:55:11] And it's truly everything that he does here is awful.

[00:55:17] He is the true villain.

[00:55:18] He is a proper villain going into Batman season,

[00:55:21] Batman 2.

[00:55:23] Totally.

[00:55:23] So it's fabulous.

[00:55:25] It's absolutely so well written and so interesting.

[00:55:28] But yes,

[00:55:29] he is truly a villain.

[00:55:31] I do really worry for Eve.

[00:55:33] I feel like this isn't the first time that Oz has asked her to do that.

[00:55:37] And part of the conversation that she had with Sophia when Sophia visited her house

[00:55:41] to get that information out on Oz.

[00:55:45] There's just some interesting moments in that discussion where she kind of says,

[00:55:49] Oz isn't that complicated a person,

[00:55:50] but I know him and I know what he likes,

[00:55:52] basically.

[00:55:53] And it feels like this is what he wants.

[00:55:56] He probably doesn't want to have her as a sex worker.

[00:56:00] He doesn't want to have her for sex.

[00:56:02] He wants to have her dress up as his mom and tell him that she's proud of him.

[00:56:06] You know,

[00:56:07] that feels like an Oz Cobb thing.

[00:56:09] That that's what he wants.

[00:56:11] That's more important to him than anything else.

[00:56:13] That someone is proud of him.

[00:56:15] That someone loves him.

[00:56:15] But that's it.

[00:56:16] And I think that's what's really good with the ending here.

[00:56:19] Then when,

[00:56:20] you know,

[00:56:20] Eve is saying Gotham's yours and nothing stands in your way now.

[00:56:25] As the camera is pulling back on the,

[00:56:27] you know,

[00:56:28] the apartment block and the penthouse of that.

[00:56:31] And you see the bat symbol rising and shining in the sky.

[00:56:36] So cool.

[00:56:37] The Gotham.

[00:56:37] So cool.

[00:56:38] I just really,

[00:56:40] really nicely done.

[00:56:41] Yeah.

[00:56:42] Yeah.

[00:56:42] Fantastic.

[00:56:43] Fantastic.

[00:56:44] Um,

[00:56:45] the other reason I'm a bit worried for Eve though,

[00:56:48] as well is because,

[00:56:49] well,

[00:56:50] Sophia found out where,

[00:56:52] um,

[00:56:53] Oz was keeping his mom and Victor,

[00:56:55] uh,

[00:56:55] because of her conversation with Eve.

[00:56:58] And that's why Oz killed Victor was because they can come at him through,

[00:57:03] uh,

[00:57:04] through Victor.

[00:57:04] So,

[00:57:05] um,

[00:57:05] if he ever finds out that he's the reason why Sophia found his mom,

[00:57:09] well,

[00:57:10] I don't think she's too long for this world either.

[00:57:11] Absolutely.

[00:57:12] Yeah.

[00:57:13] Wow.

[00:57:13] What an episode.

[00:57:15] Um,

[00:57:15] yeah,

[00:57:15] completely.

[00:57:16] What a brilliant final moment.

[00:57:18] Really,

[00:57:18] really good.

[00:57:19] Yeah.

[00:57:20] Uh,

[00:57:20] any notes in the episode,

[00:57:21] John?

[00:57:21] Um,

[00:57:21] the only note from me is that we do see,

[00:57:24] uh,

[00:57:25] Oz with his top hat as he comes to his apartment block.

[00:57:31] We see him in his full comic book.

[00:57:33] Indeed.

[00:57:34] He's wearing his proper,

[00:57:35] um,

[00:57:36] his proper costume from the comic,

[00:57:38] except for the top hat,

[00:57:39] which as you say,

[00:57:40] he's holding in his hand.

[00:57:41] Uh,

[00:57:41] I think he puts it on top of an umbrella when he comes into the penthouse

[00:57:43] department as well.

[00:57:44] That's where he stores his,

[00:57:45] his hat.

[00:57:46] So,

[00:57:46] uh,

[00:57:46] while we didn't see Oz with an umbrella,

[00:57:48] uh,

[00:57:48] throughout the season,

[00:57:49] he does have everything available to him to become the penguin from the comic books.

[00:57:54] Uh,

[00:57:54] no monocle.

[00:57:55] That's the only,

[00:57:55] the only thing that doesn't have,

[00:57:56] right?

[00:57:57] Yes.

[00:57:58] No monocle.

[00:57:59] Um,

[00:57:59] one thing I really liked,

[00:58:00] I've been playing a lot of the,

[00:58:01] uh,

[00:58:01] a lot of Batman games,

[00:58:02] uh,

[00:58:03] over the last couple of years,

[00:58:04] um,

[00:58:05] penguin has been played with a British accent,

[00:58:08] either upper class or lower class,

[00:58:09] British accents,

[00:58:10] usually like a Londony type accent.

[00:58:12] Uh,

[00:58:12] it's an interesting choice.

[00:58:13] They have an Irish actor playing,

[00:58:17] uh,

[00:58:17] a New York Bronx,

[00:58:18] uh,

[00:58:18] type accent for,

[00:58:19] uh,

[00:58:20] for Oz Cobb,

[00:58:20] bringing him back to being working class American,

[00:58:23] basically.

[00:58:23] Uh,

[00:58:24] I think that's quite an interesting choice for this season,

[00:58:25] but I just noticed it cause I've been playing the games a little bit over the last

[00:58:28] couple of days.

[00:58:29] So,

[00:58:29] and one more for me,

[00:58:30] I mentioned at the top about the cameos that they have in the show.

[00:58:33] Um,

[00:58:33] from the Batman,

[00:58:34] you know,

[00:58:34] people like detective wise and the councilman,

[00:58:36] um,

[00:58:37] interesting that they had,

[00:58:38] uh,

[00:58:38] they did have a moment,

[00:58:39] uh,

[00:58:40] of Bella real as well.

[00:58:41] The newly crowned mayor at the end of the Batman,

[00:58:44] uh,

[00:58:44] is in a scene in this episode,

[00:58:46] but I was looking at her from afar.

[00:58:48] It's almost what I said.

[00:58:50] Um,

[00:58:50] it's almost,

[00:58:51] you can have her in the background,

[00:58:53] but if you had Oz interact with her,

[00:58:55] that would mean it's really the movie and that he could also interact with

[00:58:58] Batman on this TV show.

[00:58:59] But if you have Bella real kind of out of reach,

[00:59:02] then it shows Oz isn't at that level yet.

[00:59:05] uh,

[00:59:05] so I just liked that little touch and he was kind of saying in the future,

[00:59:09] this is the deal that he has with councilman Haiti,

[00:59:11] um,

[00:59:12] that he will be able to be in the same room as her and she'll listen to him.

[00:59:16] Definitely.

[00:59:17] Yeah.

[00:59:17] Last one for me,

[00:59:18] uh,

[00:59:18] just to mention,

[00:59:19] cause,

[00:59:19] uh,

[00:59:19] a very famous Irish poet is involved in this one.

[00:59:21] Uh,

[00:59:22] the episode title,

[00:59:23] a great or little thing is from the Oscar Wilde poem,

[00:59:25] the ballad of Reading jail.

[00:59:28] Um,

[00:59:28] the verse that it's in reads,

[00:59:30] I never saw a man who looked with such a wistful eye upon that little tent of blue,

[00:59:33] which prisoners call the sky and every drifting cloud that went with sales of silver by,

[00:59:38] I walked with other souls in pain within another ring and was wondering if the man had done a great or little thing on a voice behind me whispered low,

[00:59:45] that fellas got a swing.

[00:59:48] Um,

[00:59:49] great touch because again,

[00:59:50] this is something that could apply to Sophia because she's obviously in prison.

[00:59:54] What's she in there for?

[00:59:55] Has she done a greater little thing?

[00:59:56] And that she has to swing.

[00:59:57] And also it could apply to Penguin himself.

[01:00:00] He's done a great thing here,

[01:00:02] a massive thing in the city of Gotham.

[01:00:04] And he's also killed the person closest to him as well.

[01:00:07] A great and little thing,

[01:00:07] I suppose.

[01:00:08] Um,

[01:00:08] so love it.

[01:00:09] And I also love that it's Oscar Wilde as well.

[01:00:11] One of our favorite poets.

[01:00:12] We took a photograph with,

[01:00:14] uh,

[01:00:14] well,

[01:00:15] his statue,

[01:00:15] at least cause he's been gone a long time,

[01:00:17] uh,

[01:00:17] for our wedding.

[01:00:18] Yeah.

[01:00:19] Yeah.

[01:00:19] Love Oscar Wilde.

[01:00:21] Love him.

[01:00:21] Love him.

[01:00:21] And that brings us to our final rating.

[01:00:24] John,

[01:00:25] how do you rate the episode?

[01:00:27] Five fag fives out of five.

[01:00:30] Five fag fives?

[01:00:32] Yeah.

[01:00:32] Fag threes out of five.

[01:00:34] Well,

[01:00:34] I guess so,

[01:00:35] but I just fag five.

[01:00:36] Okay.

[01:00:37] I like it.

[01:00:37] I like it.

[01:00:38] Does that translate to the whole series or is it this episode?

[01:00:41] It's for this episode.

[01:00:42] I think this is a really wonderful final episode.

[01:00:46] Um,

[01:00:48] you know,

[01:00:48] despite all the things that may be just tipping you to think that

[01:00:52] Oz Cobb is not as bad as they say he is,

[01:00:56] um,

[01:00:57] possibly he might not have all the luck in the world.

[01:01:00] You realize he is just despicable.

[01:01:02] Yeah.

[01:01:03] You realize that actually his,

[01:01:05] his best quality is cunning,

[01:01:08] um,

[01:01:08] and ruthlessness,

[01:01:10] um,

[01:01:10] absolutely to anyone.

[01:01:12] Um,

[01:01:13] and the most important person in the entire world is him.

[01:01:16] Yes.

[01:01:17] Exactly.

[01:01:17] Um,

[01:01:18] I just love this.

[01:01:20] Um,

[01:01:20] absolutely gutted that Victor and Oz's relationship,

[01:01:24] um,

[01:01:25] is,

[01:01:26] is gone,

[01:01:27] but not surprising.

[01:01:28] It totally makes sense that Oz would do this.

[01:01:31] I say the,

[01:01:32] the line that your family is a greater strength and also,

[01:01:36] uh,

[01:01:37] can be your weakness.

[01:01:38] I can't have that anymore going forward.

[01:01:41] Like it totally makes sense.

[01:01:43] Eve.

[01:01:44] I mean,

[01:01:44] the whole ending of,

[01:01:46] you know,

[01:01:47] the,

[01:01:48] the,

[01:01:48] the flip of Sophia being back in Arkham hospital,

[01:01:51] the whole thing with Eve and Oz is kind of seeming.

[01:01:55] Oedipus complex,

[01:01:58] really,

[01:01:59] really,

[01:01:59] uh,

[01:02:00] unsettling actually,

[01:02:01] but like,

[01:02:02] so fantastic that the show is doing this.

[01:02:06] I really,

[01:02:07] really enjoyed this episode.

[01:02:09] I think it pulled everything together.

[01:02:11] That opening,

[01:02:12] um,

[01:02:14] between.

[01:02:16] Oz and Francis in the Monroe is so tense.

[01:02:20] It sets Oz up to expose exactly who he is.

[01:02:25] Um,

[01:02:25] you know,

[01:02:26] and I think,

[01:02:27] you know,

[01:02:27] third use to everyone involved here.

[01:02:30] Uh,

[01:02:30] so good.

[01:02:31] I can't really praise it,

[01:02:32] uh,

[01:02:33] highly enough,

[01:02:34] you know,

[01:02:34] and that's why I give it five,

[01:02:35] thank fives out of five.

[01:02:37] Fantastic.

[01:02:38] Yeah.

[01:02:38] Huge praise specifically to Laura LeFranc.

[01:02:41] And I know she pulled together a team that worked everything to do this.

[01:02:44] It's amazing to think this show is,

[01:02:46] had started before the writer's strike,

[01:02:48] uh,

[01:02:49] and the director's strike last year.

[01:02:51] And they took,

[01:02:51] I think it was a three or four month break,

[01:02:53] uh,

[01:02:54] during the season and then came back and filmed the last couple of episodes of the show.

[01:02:58] Um,

[01:02:58] and the quality that's remained in the show has just been fantastic.

[01:03:03] give Lauren LeFranc all the work.

[01:03:04] Uh,

[01:03:05] James Gunn,

[01:03:05] you're now in charge of the DC universe.

[01:03:07] bring her back.

[01:03:08] Make her do something else,

[01:03:09] uh,

[01:03:09] uh,

[01:03:10] or whatever else she wants to do.

[01:03:11] Of course,

[01:03:12] uh,

[01:03:12] hopefully,

[01:03:12] uh,

[01:03:13] in fairness to Matt Reeves,

[01:03:14] you know,

[01:03:14] for choosing her to be the showrunner and the lead here for this show,

[01:03:20] uh,

[01:03:20] in the bat,

[01:03:21] bat universe that he's got control of.

[01:03:24] Absolutely.

[01:03:24] Whatever about James Gunn,

[01:03:26] um,

[01:03:27] so far,

[01:03:28] other than his own movies,

[01:03:29] I haven't seen him being sort of the,

[01:03:32] um,

[01:03:33] conductor for the DC verse.

[01:03:35] That's right.

[01:03:36] The first,

[01:03:36] uh,

[01:03:36] first one of those,

[01:03:37] the creature commandos is coming out in December,

[01:03:40] an animated show.

[01:03:41] The first,

[01:03:41] first creature's gone commando.

[01:03:43] Maybe knowing James Gunn,

[01:03:45] perhaps,

[01:03:46] but that's coming out next month in December.

[01:03:48] Don't get me wrong.

[01:03:49] I love James Gunn.

[01:03:50] I really enjoyed his stuff and he's made me want to watch things that I never thought I would want to like.

[01:03:55] Like peacemaker.

[01:03:56] Yeah.

[01:03:57] Like the DC universe of movies.

[01:03:58] No,

[01:03:59] I'm sorry.

[01:03:59] I'm joking.

[01:04:00] I'm joking.

[01:04:00] Suicide squad.

[01:04:01] Yeah.

[01:04:02] Absolutely.

[01:04:02] Really,

[01:04:03] really good.

[01:04:04] So I'm looking forward to what he's going to do,

[01:04:06] but I have to say on the darker side of it,

[01:04:09] Gotham and Matt Reeves,

[01:04:11] um,

[01:04:12] and indeed,

[01:04:13] Lauren LaFranc have done fantastic stuff here.

[01:04:17] Absolutely.

[01:04:17] I'm a huge Batman fan.

[01:04:19] And this is one of the best things I've seen in that Batman universe.

[01:04:22] And one of the best shows I've seen this year as well.

[01:04:24] I really,

[01:04:24] really loved this show and I've really loved talking about it with you,

[01:04:27] John.

[01:04:28] Um,

[01:04:28] so let's raise a glass and let's head on over to the iceberg lounge.

[01:04:32] Cause I think we need to do that.

[01:04:34] John.

[01:04:34] Yes,

[01:04:35] indeed we do.

[01:04:36] Fellow Gothamites,

[01:04:37] fellow quizzes.

[01:04:39] Uh,

[01:04:39] welcome to the iceberg lounge.

[01:04:41] It's final orders.

[01:04:42] It is question eight.

[01:04:45] And the question is,

[01:04:46] where does Sophia meet Mr.

[01:04:48] Zhao to exchange Oz Cobb?

[01:04:51] Oh yes.

[01:04:52] We want the full detailed answer for this as well.

[01:04:54] Full name of the airport and the number of the hangar.

[01:04:58] Oh,

[01:04:58] okay.

[01:04:59] Great.

[01:04:59] Uh,

[01:04:59] you're giving the tips this time.

[01:05:01] John,

[01:05:01] great stuff.

[01:05:02] Do you want to give the question one more time?

[01:05:03] Yes.

[01:05:03] Where does Sophia meet Mr.

[01:05:06] Zhao to exchange Oz Cobb?

[01:05:08] Fantastic.

[01:05:09] That's the eighth question.

[01:05:10] All of eight for our penguin iceberg lounge quiz.

[01:05:13] Get all your correct answers in now to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com.

[01:05:18] The person with the correct answers could be in with a chance of getting their hands on some penguin goodies.

[01:05:22] They certainly can.

[01:05:23] Uh,

[01:05:23] good luck fellow quizzes and fellow Gothamites.

[01:05:26] Absolutely.

[01:05:27] Let's get over to some feedback from our wonderful fellow Gothamites on our criminal comms feedback section.

[01:05:32] First up,

[01:05:33] we have an email in from coffee and vodka who says,

[01:05:35] greetings fellow cabbage patch defenders.

[01:05:37] In as much as we could expect anything,

[01:05:39] this was it.

[01:05:40] Oswald on top with a great view of the bat signal.

[01:05:42] The cat and mouse between the penguin and lady loon ends here for now,

[01:05:46] but with more productions to go,

[01:05:47] we'll see.

[01:05:48] Sophia's too great a character to shelve.

[01:05:50] No tears spill for Vic.

[01:05:52] As soon as he said the F word,

[01:05:54] family,

[01:05:54] you knew the inevitable outcome.

[01:05:56] From start to ending,

[01:05:57] both for this episode and season,

[01:05:58] a wonderfully tight and suspenseful package.

[01:06:01] MVP's got to be Colin.

[01:06:03] 4.5 emperor penguins,

[01:06:05] victorious victims and sisterly reunions out of five.

[01:06:09] Peace and take care.

[01:06:10] Coffee and vodka.

[01:06:11] Excellent stuff.

[01:06:11] Coffee and vodka.

[01:06:13] Totally agree.

[01:06:14] Uh,

[01:06:14] really superb,

[01:06:16] uh,

[01:06:17] show here.

[01:06:18] Yeah.

[01:06:18] Um,

[01:06:19] and the episode and the season,

[01:06:21] uh,

[01:06:21] as well.

[01:06:22] Yeah.

[01:06:22] Um,

[01:06:22] I really hope we see some of your country back.

[01:06:25] Um,

[01:06:25] Oh,

[01:06:26] I think so.

[01:06:26] And I,

[01:06:27] I think in,

[01:06:28] in the sense that she's shelved in Arkham.

[01:06:30] So she's shelved in character in Arkham,

[01:06:33] ready,

[01:06:34] uh,

[01:06:34] to burst out with the Riddler and maybe the Joker.

[01:06:40] Exactly.

[01:06:41] Exactly.

[01:06:41] I think both.

[01:06:42] I'm glad they've kept them alive because they can always come back.

[01:06:46] Exactly.

[01:06:46] And it could be like the worst,

[01:06:48] like Avengers assemble ever.

[01:06:50] It could be.

[01:06:51] It could be.

[01:06:52] All the villains bursting out of Arkham.

[01:06:54] That would be awesome.

[01:06:55] You know?

[01:06:55] It would be awesome.

[01:06:56] It's what,

[01:06:56] it's what people love to be at the Arkham Asylum games.

[01:06:58] Definitely.

[01:06:59] Uh,

[01:07:00] so good stuff.

[01:07:00] Thanks coffee and vodka.

[01:07:01] Absolutely.

[01:07:02] And your email completely changes all of the fast and furious movies.

[01:07:05] Cause,

[01:07:05] uh,

[01:07:05] the F word family has said quite a lot in those as well.

[01:07:09] Thanks coffee and vodka.

[01:07:10] Yeah.

[01:07:11] Thanks so much.

[01:07:11] Uh,

[01:07:12] we also got an email in from Meryl Smith who says,

[01:07:15] greetings,

[01:07:16] waddlers and waddler enthusiasts.

[01:07:18] And welcome to the finale of the penguin.

[01:07:21] Let's get this out of the way up top.

[01:07:24] Hats off to the,

[01:07:24] everyone involved that came together to deliver a spectacular,

[01:07:28] spectacular spectacle of a show.

[01:07:30] First things first,

[01:07:32] Sophia really does know how to organize one hell of a therapy session for Oswald and Francis.

[01:07:38] Deirdre O'Connell delivers a captivating performance throughout the entire episode.

[01:07:44] Even when she's motionless,

[01:07:46] you still get something from her to convey exactly what she's feeling.

[01:07:50] Something interesting that I realized is that Sophia won,

[01:07:54] but in a different,

[01:07:55] more unique way.

[01:07:57] While Oz is the last man standing on top,

[01:08:00] it's like the Thanos meme.

[01:08:01] What did it cost?

[01:08:03] Everything.

[01:08:04] The worst prisons are the ones that you build for yourself.

[01:08:07] And this is the one that Oz has always been creating from childhood to now.

[01:08:12] Special shout out to Renzi Feliz,

[01:08:15] who plays Victor.

[01:08:16] He's come a long way since I last saw him in Runaways.

[01:08:20] He's really brought this character to life in all these captivating ways,

[01:08:25] but he was doomed for a tragic end.

[01:08:27] This has been borrowed time at best.

[01:08:30] Love that speech that he gives Oz earlier in the episode.

[01:08:33] It really shows how far of a journey that he's gone through,

[01:08:37] and the potential he could have.

[01:08:39] But there are no happy endings in this story.

[01:08:42] Such a heartbreaking scene,

[01:08:44] and all Victor can say is Oz and please.

[01:08:48] One of which was what he said when they first met,

[01:08:51] bringing it full circle.

[01:08:53] Also, two details that I noticed.

[01:08:56] Oz takes Sal's ring in the last episode,

[01:08:59] and in this one,

[01:09:00] the way he kills Vic is how Carmine kills his victims.

[01:09:04] So he's essentially took elements from different crime bosses

[01:09:08] and blended them together.

[01:09:10] And lastly,

[01:09:11] our dark hero Sophia Giganti,

[01:09:14] who, as I stated,

[01:09:15] won over Oz in a psychological battle

[01:09:18] that left him pretty shattered and broken

[01:09:21] in a lot of ways,

[01:09:23] while she actually is stronger in different ways than he is.

[01:09:26] I like that effigy burning of the Falcone house

[01:09:30] and was almost like a full cleansing of her past

[01:09:33] and trying to move forward.

[01:09:34] Although it makes the frame job against her work better,

[01:09:38] but nothing in life is perfect.

[01:09:40] Am I right?

[01:09:41] It was halfway through the season

[01:09:43] when I realized she wasn't going to die.

[01:09:45] The fate worse than death play

[01:09:47] is always the worst

[01:09:49] than can be bestowed upon someone.

[01:09:52] Although there may be a light

[01:09:54] at the end of the tunnel for Sophia

[01:09:56] in the form of Selina Kyle.

[01:09:59] I was expecting a cameo of Batman,

[01:10:01] but this works better

[01:10:03] as this story is about the penguins rise

[01:10:06] and now he's on top.

[01:10:08] His downfall begins now.

[01:10:10] Five effigy burnings of the past,

[01:10:13] frame jobs disguised as executions,

[01:10:15] sister reunions incoming,

[01:10:18] reminders that Batman exists

[01:10:20] and mothers trapped in a living hell

[01:10:22] out of five.

[01:10:24] Excellent stuff there.

[01:10:27] Meryl, I am totally with you on Victor.

[01:10:31] Both in terms of just how

[01:10:33] he's played that second fiddle to Oz

[01:10:38] but has learned from the best

[01:10:41] is almost, you know,

[01:10:43] the threat as well as the family

[01:10:45] and I agree.

[01:10:47] I loved him in The Runaways as well,

[01:10:50] but he's a different type of story

[01:10:53] and it shows some really good acting chops

[01:10:56] from him.

[01:10:57] Yeah, definitely.

[01:10:59] Oh, he was just fantastic.

[01:11:00] Oh, well, yeah.

[01:11:01] It really hooked me into this series.

[01:11:04] All the different relationships have

[01:11:07] and I think that's why I've really enjoyed it

[01:11:11] and the reason I always kind of keep picking

[01:11:13] Victor and Oz Cobb above, say,

[01:11:17] Oz and Sophia,

[01:11:19] even though, again,

[01:11:20] that's just absolutely perfect to me,

[01:11:22] is because the Oz and Victor one

[01:11:25] is so unexpected.

[01:11:26] Yes.

[01:11:27] Yeah.

[01:11:27] It just,

[01:11:28] I never thought that would be

[01:11:30] where I'm kind of rooting for someone

[01:11:32] to succeed.

[01:11:34] And I mean,

[01:11:35] I think,

[01:11:36] like you say,

[01:11:37] it's,

[01:11:38] in a sense,

[01:11:41] he chose his fate

[01:11:42] because he didn't get on the bus.

[01:11:45] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:11:46] Yeah.

[01:11:46] And he could have been

[01:11:46] on the other side

[01:11:47] over in LA

[01:11:48] with his girlfriend.

[01:11:49] And yeah,

[01:11:49] I'm still like,

[01:11:50] my notes for this episode

[01:11:52] just says like,

[01:11:53] Darth Vader,

[01:11:54] like,

[01:11:54] no.

[01:11:55] Well,

[01:11:55] exactly.

[01:11:56] You know,

[01:11:57] so,

[01:11:58] yeah,

[01:11:59] really good stuff.

[01:11:59] Thanks, Meryl.

[01:12:00] Absolutely.

[01:12:01] Thanks so much,

[01:12:02] Meryl,

[01:12:02] for your thoughts.

[01:12:02] Over on Facebook,

[01:12:03] Patrick Lemke says,

[01:12:04] very refreshingly avant-garde

[01:12:06] to have a character

[01:12:07] so disgustingly evil

[01:12:08] and irredeemable

[01:12:09] as the main character.

[01:12:10] It's a story first and foremost

[01:12:11] and if the character

[01:12:12] is evil to the core,

[01:12:14] if it is given a reason

[01:12:15] in a well-written way,

[01:12:16] that's good enough for me.

[01:12:17] Solid miniseries.

[01:12:18] Thanks so much,

[01:12:19] Patrick.

[01:12:20] Yeah,

[01:12:20] completely

[01:12:22] with that assessment.

[01:12:25] It doesn't need to be

[01:12:25] one of those redemption arcs

[01:12:27] for villain stories.

[01:12:28] There's too many of them.

[01:12:29] There's lots of villains

[01:12:29] out there too.

[01:12:30] Let's tell their story

[01:12:31] of villains.

[01:12:31] And despite all

[01:12:32] the disgustingly evil

[01:12:34] and irredeemable aspect of it,

[01:12:36] there's still moments

[01:12:37] where you kind of

[01:12:37] want to root for him.

[01:12:39] And you're like,

[01:12:39] but it's in this

[01:12:43] final assessment

[01:12:44] where he's just

[01:12:45] the worst

[01:12:47] to the people

[01:12:47] that should be

[01:12:50] the ones

[01:12:50] that care about him

[01:12:51] the most

[01:12:52] or do care about him

[01:12:53] the most

[01:12:53] or he should be

[01:12:54] looking after the most.

[01:12:55] He is despicable.

[01:12:57] Well,

[01:12:57] exactly.

[01:12:58] Exactly.

[01:12:58] And the show

[01:12:59] made a great choice

[01:13:00] to have Victor

[01:13:00] in there

[01:13:01] so you could

[01:13:02] root for Victor

[01:13:03] and not feel too bad

[01:13:04] about that.

[01:13:05] Exactly.

[01:13:05] You know?

[01:13:06] Exactly.

[01:13:06] Great stuff.

[01:13:07] Thanks, Patrick.

[01:13:08] thanks, Patrick.

[01:13:08] Also,

[01:13:09] Victor Von Doom says,

[01:13:10] I loved everything

[01:13:11] in this series

[01:13:12] except Vic's

[01:13:13] demise,

[01:13:14] of course.

[01:13:15] Emmy nominations

[01:13:16] all around

[01:13:17] for this one.

[01:13:18] Totally agree,

[01:13:19] Victor.

[01:13:20] Totally agree.

[01:13:21] Thanks for the comment.

[01:13:22] Thanks, Victor.

[01:13:23] Also,

[01:13:24] Becky Anderson says,

[01:13:25] this finale

[01:13:26] solidified for me

[01:13:27] this is the best show

[01:13:29] in 2024.

[01:13:31] Incredible ending.

[01:13:32] So many incredible,

[01:13:34] suspenseful,

[01:13:35] heartbreaking,

[01:13:36] and shocking moments.

[01:13:37] Frances living with the truth

[01:13:39] of what happened

[01:13:40] to her sons.

[01:13:41] Oz taking out Vic.

[01:13:43] I did not expect that.

[01:13:45] Sophia ending up

[01:13:46] in her worst nightmare

[01:13:48] back in Arkham.

[01:13:49] Oz's every word

[01:13:50] and move

[01:13:51] proved why he rose

[01:13:52] to be the king

[01:13:53] of Gotham.

[01:13:54] Don't ever

[01:13:55] underestimate

[01:13:56] Oz Cobb.

[01:13:58] I appreciate the story

[01:13:59] being left open

[01:14:00] with Selena's letter

[01:14:00] to Sophia

[01:14:01] and the bat signal

[01:14:03] flashing

[01:14:03] just as Oz says

[01:14:04] nothing can stop him now.

[01:14:06] To the entire cast

[01:14:07] and crew,

[01:14:08] I tip my top hat

[01:14:10] to you all.

[01:14:11] Absolutely brilliant

[01:14:12] and I hope

[01:14:13] come awards season

[01:14:14] this show

[01:14:15] gets the credit

[01:14:16] it so rightly

[01:14:17] deserves.

[01:14:19] Absolutely,

[01:14:21] Becky Anderson

[01:14:21] and totally

[01:14:23] with you there

[01:14:23] 100%.

[01:14:24] This is a

[01:14:25] superb,

[01:14:26] superb show.

[01:14:28] For me,

[01:14:29] it's my best show

[01:14:30] in 2024

[01:14:31] so far.

[01:14:33] Did not expect

[01:14:34] the Vic

[01:14:34] takeout

[01:14:35] either

[01:14:36] and

[01:14:37] yeah,

[01:14:38] just absolutely

[01:14:39] brilliant.

[01:14:39] Yeah,

[01:14:40] it's absolutely

[01:14:41] right up there

[01:14:41] at the top for me.

[01:14:42] I wasn't expecting

[01:14:43] it to be this good.

[01:14:44] I love dramas,

[01:14:46] I love crime dramas,

[01:14:47] I love Batman,

[01:14:47] it's ticking so many boxes

[01:14:49] for me

[01:14:49] and went way beyond

[01:14:50] and hey,

[01:14:51] it has an Irish star

[01:14:52] so we gotta love it

[01:14:54] as well for that

[01:14:54] as Irish podcasters.

[01:14:56] Definitely.

[01:14:57] Yeah,

[01:14:57] he really is so good

[01:14:59] in it.

[01:14:59] Like there's a moment

[01:15:00] where he's walking

[01:15:01] out of City Hall

[01:15:02] and I think

[01:15:03] it's like

[01:15:04] it's before you

[01:15:05] have his silhouette

[01:15:06] with the city

[01:15:07] in front

[01:15:08] when he's at the top

[01:15:09] of the stairs

[01:15:09] but he's walking

[01:15:10] across like

[01:15:11] the huge entrance

[01:15:12] hallway

[01:15:14] and his lean back

[01:15:15] and his walk

[01:15:16] as he's moving

[01:15:17] to me is so

[01:15:19] Oswald Cobblepot.

[01:15:21] It looked fantastic.

[01:15:23] Yeah.

[01:15:23] Just the gait

[01:15:24] of his walk,

[01:15:25] the limp

[01:15:26] within it

[01:15:27] and the fact

[01:15:27] that he wasn't

[01:15:28] kind of

[01:15:29] stood up.

[01:15:30] It was almost

[01:15:31] like leaning back

[01:15:32] and walking.

[01:15:33] It looked like

[01:15:34] something out

[01:15:35] of one of the

[01:15:35] graphic novels.

[01:15:36] It was superb.

[01:15:37] Just that

[01:15:38] sort of distant

[01:15:39] sort of look

[01:15:41] at Oswald Cobblepot.

[01:15:43] And that's the moment

[01:15:44] where he sees

[01:15:45] Mayor Belarreal.

[01:15:46] Just after that.

[01:15:47] And he walks

[01:15:48] across to go

[01:15:49] outside.

[01:15:50] Interesting.

[01:15:50] I really thought

[01:15:51] that was a nice

[01:15:53] there's something

[01:15:54] about that

[01:15:55] and how it was

[01:15:56] done,

[01:15:57] how it was set up

[01:15:58] and the way

[01:15:58] Colin Farrell

[01:15:59] does the walk

[01:16:00] is just really

[01:16:01] good.

[01:16:02] I think he

[01:16:03] probably

[01:16:03] that was probably

[01:16:04] intentional as well.

[01:16:05] I didn't mention

[01:16:06] that someone was

[01:16:07] trying to convince

[01:16:07] me that the scene

[01:16:08] where he's sitting

[01:16:08] in the room

[01:16:11] talking to the

[01:16:12] councilman

[01:16:14] that all of

[01:16:15] the curtains

[01:16:15] around him

[01:16:16] look like

[01:16:16] owls in the

[01:16:17] shape of owls.

[01:16:18] So it's supposed

[01:16:18] to be a reference

[01:16:19] to Court of Owls.

[01:16:20] I don't see it

[01:16:21] but go check it out.

[01:16:22] Tell me if you

[01:16:23] see it.

[01:16:23] I kind of

[01:16:24] get where they're

[01:16:26] coming from

[01:16:26] but it could

[01:16:27] equally be a bat

[01:16:29] or...

[01:16:29] I just think

[01:16:30] it's curtains.

[01:16:30] That's how

[01:16:31] curtains hang.

[01:16:32] But maybe

[01:16:33] they're trying to

[01:16:33] make a reference

[01:16:34] to Court of Owls.

[01:16:35] But someone

[01:16:35] was saying

[01:16:36] that was a

[01:16:37] deep cut

[01:16:38] Easter egg.

[01:16:39] You know those

[01:16:40] videos that they

[01:16:40] have the 165

[01:16:41] Easter eggs?

[01:16:42] It's like that

[01:16:43] coffee cup over

[01:16:43] there was used

[01:16:44] under the show.

[01:16:45] That's what it

[01:16:46] felt like to me.

[01:16:47] Okay.

[01:16:47] Grouch.

[01:16:49] Thanks so much

[01:16:49] for your thoughts

[01:16:50] Becky.

[01:16:50] Yeah.

[01:16:51] Thanks Becky.

[01:16:52] Mike Zomkowski

[01:16:53] says oh man

[01:16:54] best ending of a

[01:16:55] show in many

[01:16:55] years hit me

[01:16:56] with a few

[01:16:56] twists hate

[01:16:57] rooting for

[01:16:57] Oz and they

[01:16:58] made it really

[01:16:59] tough the last

[01:17:00] two episodes.

[01:17:00] Bring on the

[01:17:01] next phase of

[01:17:01] DC.

[01:17:02] Definitely.

[01:17:03] Thanks Mike.

[01:17:04] Yeah.

[01:17:04] Thanks Mike.

[01:17:05] Richard Blaze

[01:17:06] says where

[01:17:06] that was some

[01:17:07] damn fine TV

[01:17:08] but I think

[01:17:08] everyone has

[01:17:09] added quiet

[01:17:09] was just so

[01:17:10] phenomenal.

[01:17:11] I'm just in

[01:17:12] awe.

[01:17:13] Excellent stuff

[01:17:14] Richard.

[01:17:14] Thanks Richard.

[01:17:15] Glad you

[01:17:15] enjoyed.

[01:17:16] Yeah.

[01:17:16] It is very

[01:17:17] awesome.

[01:17:19] It is.

[01:17:19] It is and

[01:17:20] Richard's been

[01:17:20] around all the

[01:17:21] way the last

[01:17:22] 10 years watching

[01:17:22] Gotham and all

[01:17:24] the rest of the

[01:17:24] shows with us.

[01:17:25] So thanks for

[01:17:26] your thoughts

[01:17:26] Richard.

[01:17:27] Yeah.

[01:17:27] Thanks Richard.

[01:17:28] Richard.

[01:17:28] And finally on

[01:17:30] Facebook.

[01:17:30] Philippe Florencio

[01:17:31] says what a

[01:17:32] dark twist at the

[01:17:33] end for the Vic

[01:17:34] character.

[01:17:35] I should but I

[01:17:36] didn't expect that

[01:17:37] to happen.

[01:17:38] Great show.

[01:17:39] Amazing characters.

[01:17:41] I'm looking forward

[01:17:41] to the Matt Reaves

[01:17:42] universe to continue

[01:17:43] and hopefully to

[01:17:44] expand beyond the

[01:17:46] following the

[01:17:47] Batman sequel.

[01:17:48] Colin Farrell is

[01:17:49] also so great

[01:17:51] being the Penguin

[01:17:52] that I have to

[01:17:53] consciously remind

[01:17:54] myself sometimes

[01:17:55] that he is the

[01:17:56] actor below the

[01:17:57] makeup and the

[01:17:59] silver lining after

[01:18:00] this bleak finale is

[01:18:01] that we will most

[01:18:03] likely have

[01:18:04] Kristen Milioti

[01:18:05] Sophia acting

[01:18:06] alongside Zoe

[01:18:08] Kravitz's Selena

[01:18:09] in the future.

[01:18:11] Five out of five

[01:18:12] top hats for me.

[01:18:14] Excellent stuff

[01:18:15] Philippe.

[01:18:16] Absolutely.

[01:18:16] How cool would

[01:18:17] that be?

[01:18:17] I'd love to see the

[01:18:18] two of them together.

[01:18:19] Oh it must be.

[01:18:20] It must be.

[01:18:21] I hope so.

[01:18:21] Crossing everything

[01:18:22] and still writing

[01:18:23] going on.

[01:18:24] Filming is supposed

[01:18:24] to be happening

[01:18:25] next summer for

[01:18:26] the Batman 2

[01:18:27] so hopefully

[01:18:28] they're going to

[01:18:28] incorporate some

[01:18:29] of the ideas

[01:18:29] from the Penguin

[01:18:30] into that.

[01:18:31] It's interesting

[01:18:32] isn't it?

[01:18:33] In Marvel

[01:18:33] that would be

[01:18:35] some kind of

[01:18:35] post-credits

[01:18:36] or mid-credits

[01:18:37] scene.

[01:18:38] Yeah.

[01:18:39] And actually

[01:18:39] there is a reason

[01:18:40] why you just

[01:18:41] should have

[01:18:43] your story

[01:18:44] in the story.

[01:18:45] Well yeah.

[01:18:45] You know?

[01:18:46] Yep.

[01:18:47] Absolutely.

[01:18:47] Because it's just

[01:18:48] another dimension

[01:18:49] to the ending

[01:18:50] that really

[01:18:52] weights it up

[01:18:53] do you know?

[01:18:54] Yeah.

[01:18:55] And doesn't

[01:18:56] just kind of

[01:18:56] immediately

[01:18:57] separate it.

[01:18:58] Now you probably

[01:18:58] could have done

[01:18:59] that in this case

[01:19:00] given it's in

[01:19:01] prison but

[01:19:02] you know

[01:19:03] it's an

[01:19:03] interesting thing.

[01:19:05] Yeah.

[01:19:05] I love things

[01:19:06] that differentiate

[01:19:07] DC and Marvel

[01:19:08] and I'm glad

[01:19:09] that they can be

[01:19:09] just great

[01:19:11] TV shows now.

[01:19:12] Let's move away

[01:19:13] from the time

[01:19:14] when you'd go

[01:19:15] to a DC movie

[01:19:16] in the cinema

[01:19:16] and worry that

[01:19:17] you'd have

[01:19:17] wasted some money.

[01:19:18] So we're having

[01:19:19] a great time now.

[01:19:20] We have Marvel

[01:19:21] doing good stuff,

[01:19:21] DC doing great stuff.

[01:19:22] Let's keep the

[01:19:23] trend going for both.

[01:19:26] That's all of our

[01:19:26] feedback.

[01:19:27] Thank you so much

[01:19:27] to everybody that's

[01:19:28] been sending us

[01:19:28] feedback for the

[01:19:29] Penguin Threat series.

[01:19:30] If you do have any

[01:19:30] thoughts on the

[01:19:32] series as a whole

[01:19:32] when you've had a

[01:19:33] chance to think

[01:19:34] about it please

[01:19:35] send them in to us

[01:19:35] along with your

[01:19:36] answers of course

[01:19:37] to the Iceberg

[01:19:38] Lounge quiz and

[01:19:39] we will chat about

[01:19:39] them on our wrap-up

[01:19:40] podcast in a couple

[01:19:41] of weeks time.

[01:19:42] We're going to take

[01:19:42] a little bit of a

[01:19:43] break from Penguin

[01:19:44] so probably give you

[01:19:45] about two weeks to

[01:19:46] send in your answers

[01:19:47] to the Pope quiz and

[01:19:48] we will have our

[01:19:48] Penguin wrap-up

[01:19:49] podcast out a

[01:19:50] couple of weeks

[01:19:51] time.

[01:19:51] Yes, we certainly

[01:19:52] will.

[01:19:53] We will be up

[01:19:54] next though with

[01:19:56] our Agatha All

[01:19:57] Along wrap-up

[01:19:58] podcast so if you

[01:20:00] were following along

[01:20:02] with us and

[01:20:03] listening to our

[01:20:03] podcast for Agatha

[01:20:05] All Along please

[01:20:06] make sure to tune

[01:20:07] in for that.

[01:20:08] Yep, that should be

[01:20:09] it next week.

[01:20:10] The Agatha All

[01:20:10] Along Assembled

[01:20:11] will be coming

[01:20:12] apparently on the

[01:20:13] 14th of November.

[01:20:14] We're away this

[01:20:14] weekend so we can't

[01:20:15] record this weekend

[01:20:15] but we'll hopefully

[01:20:17] record next week and

[01:20:18] wrap up the Agatha

[01:20:20] All Along Coven

[01:20:20] Quiz.

[01:20:21] Yes, and staying

[01:20:22] in the Marvel

[01:20:23] universe we will

[01:20:25] be covering season

[01:20:27] three of What If

[01:20:29] as well.

[01:20:29] The final season,

[01:20:30] yeah.

[01:20:30] The final What If

[01:20:32] and so looking

[01:20:34] forward to that

[01:20:35] really enjoyed the

[01:20:36] What If series of

[01:20:38] animation on Marvel

[01:20:40] and that along with

[01:20:42] our Penguin wrap-up

[01:20:43] so stay tuned to all

[01:20:47] things TV podcast

[01:20:48] industries over the

[01:20:50] next while.

[01:20:50] Absolutely.

[01:20:51] One last one we

[01:20:52] should mention in

[01:20:54] wrap-ups is that we

[01:20:55] just did a wrap-up of

[01:20:56] The Rings of Power

[01:20:57] season two.

[01:20:58] We did a crossover

[01:20:59] wrap-up with our

[01:20:59] friends over on

[01:21:00] Podcastica.

[01:21:01] It was so epic we

[01:21:02] had to break it into

[01:21:03] two parts.

[01:21:04] Part one is over on

[01:21:04] podcastica.com and

[01:21:06] the second part is on

[01:21:07] tvpodcastindustries.com

[01:21:08] so to get the whole

[01:21:09] experience you'll have to

[01:21:10] pop on over to

[01:21:11] Podcastica and to

[01:21:12] TVPI.

[01:21:12] Indeed.

[01:21:13] We're doing so much

[01:21:14] wrapping up anyone

[01:21:15] would think it's coming

[01:21:17] into Christmas.

[01:21:17] Christmas exactly.

[01:21:18] Exactly.

[01:21:19] But of course fellow

[01:21:22] Gothamites please stay

[01:21:24] subscribed to the

[01:21:25] podcast and of course

[01:21:27] please if you can

[01:21:29] support us either over

[01:21:31] on patreon.com forward

[01:21:33] slash tvpodcastindustries

[01:21:34] or buymeacoffee.com

[01:21:36] forward slash tvpi

[01:21:37] or indeed and this is

[01:21:41] the best one support

[01:21:42] us by subscribing to

[01:21:44] the podcast and sharing

[01:21:45] the podcast with your

[01:21:47] friends family and

[01:21:48] relatives and pet

[01:21:51] penguins I guess

[01:21:52] because of course

[01:21:53] sharing the podcast is

[01:21:55] sharing the love.

[01:21:56] It is sharing the love

[01:21:57] absolutely and no we

[01:21:58] don't think of family

[01:21:59] the same way Oswald

[01:22:00] does.

[01:22:01] You are our strength

[01:22:02] not our weakness

[01:22:04] that we want to take

[01:22:04] care of.

[01:22:07] Thanks so much for

[01:22:08] joining us.

[01:22:08] Great to be back with

[01:22:08] Gotham.

[01:22:09] Hopefully we'll be doing

[01:22:10] some more of this in the

[01:22:11] future as more projects

[01:22:13] are announced.

[01:22:14] So keep subscribed.

[01:22:14] Talk to you soon.

[01:22:15] Yes thanks so much

[01:22:16] fellow Gothamites for

[01:22:17] joining us for our

[01:22:18] coverage of the

[01:22:20] penguin.

[01:22:21] Until next time keep

[01:22:22] watching keep listening

[01:22:23] and of course keep

[01:22:24] waddling.

[01:22:26] Bye.

[01:22:26] Bye.

[01:22:53] Meanwhile Victor

[01:22:54] Aguilera says his

[01:22:58] hips don't like oh no

[01:22:59] that's not him.

[01:23:01] Christina.

[01:23:03] What would Victor

[01:23:04] Aguilera say?

[01:23:08] Party.

[01:23:08] Da da da da da.

[01:23:12] When I get dirty

[01:23:13] that's the one.

[01:23:15] There's another great

[01:23:17] Christina Aguilera song

[01:23:18] as well.

[01:23:20] Anyway.

[01:23:21] Is the just ease

[01:23:22] adverting?

[01:23:23] No.

[01:23:24] Okay.

[01:23:26] All right.

[01:23:26] Back to it.

[01:23:26] I'm going to go to the

[01:23:28] end.

[01:23:28] I'm going to go to the