The Penguin Episode 5 Review

[00:00:00] This is the Penguin Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We're back with the fifth episode of The Penguin, Homecoming.

[00:00:40] Don't lie to me. You're bad at it.

[00:00:44] It's the truth. Oz... Oz pulled this off.

[00:00:53] That's why I'm here right now, to... to make sure that you're safe while this is all going down.

[00:01:01] Finally. Okay then. So... he's gonna need my help then, right?

[00:01:33] Welcome back Gothamites to The Penguin Podcast on TV Podcast Industries.

[00:01:37] This time we're chatting about The Penguin Episode 5, Homecoming. I'm one of your hosts, Derek.

[00:01:41] Yes, and with a thwip and a thwip, I'm one of your other hosts, John.

[00:01:47] Welcome back fellow Gothamites, quizzers, and of course, waddlers.

[00:01:54] Yes, welcome back to The Penguin. I'm guessing that's a joke about Spider-Man Homecoming, John.

[00:01:59] Yeah, it is. Thwip and thwop.

[00:02:02] Thwip aren't usually ones that you would put on Spider-Man.

[00:02:05] I'm sure I saw Spider-Man sort of zipping around in the canyons of Gotham.

[00:02:10] Very high up, I'd say, over these streets.

[00:02:13] Yes, welcome back to our fifth episode of The Penguin Podcast.

[00:02:17] Really enjoying this show, suffer.

[00:02:19] Absolutely. But before we get into it, I do have a little thing that I think is hilarious.

[00:02:25] Okay.

[00:02:27] So, if you look at the Penguin title, so it fills the screen, you know, it's really big, it's in red, it's on.

[00:02:36] If you just look at the G, I think you might spot a very famous claymation antagonist to Wallace and Gromit in there.

[00:02:46] Because to me, it looks like we have another Penguin, Feathers McGraw.

[00:02:52] Really?

[00:02:53] Yeah.

[00:02:53] In the G of the Penguin.

[00:02:56] And the only reason that came to my mind was because there was the short trailer for Wallace and Gromit's Murder Most Foul, spelt F-O-W-L.

[00:03:08] Of course.

[00:03:08] Of course.

[00:03:09] The return of Feathers McGraw.

[00:03:11] And it is the return of Feathers McGraw.

[00:03:13] And I was like, oh my goodness.

[00:03:15] The G looks like sort of a stylized drawing of Feathers McGraw.

[00:03:20] It's more the beak, I guess.

[00:03:21] Maybe.

[00:03:22] Maybe.

[00:03:22] It's weird because obviously that's intentional.

[00:03:24] It's supposed to be the Penguin.

[00:03:26] So that's it.

[00:03:26] It is supposed to be the Penguin's beak.

[00:03:28] But it's Feathers McGraw.

[00:03:29] It's funny that it looks like Feathers McGraw.

[00:03:31] I love it.

[00:03:31] I love it, John.

[00:03:32] Nice opener for this episode.

[00:03:34] Just want to say a huge thank you to all of those who've subscribed to us so far.

[00:03:38] If you haven't subscribed to us yet, you can subscribe to the podcast over on tvpodcastindustries.com.

[00:03:42] Or just search for TV Podcast Industries on your favorite ornithological or gangster supporting podcast player.

[00:03:49] Absolutely.

[00:03:50] You can also email your thoughts about the Penguin to us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com.

[00:03:54] And you can also email us there with your answers for our Penguin Pub Quiz.

[00:03:59] Yes, the Iceberg Lounge Quiz.

[00:04:01] The one.

[00:04:01] We have question five coming on up.

[00:04:05] We do.

[00:04:06] But let's start the way we usually do with our Criminal Comms Feedback section.

[00:04:10] Our feedback on last week's episode.

[00:04:12] First up, we have an email in from Victor.

[00:04:14] Yes.

[00:04:15] Victor says on episode four, greetings Gothamites.

[00:04:19] Well, looks like our protagonists' backstories are coming full circle.

[00:04:24] Sophia as an Arkham survivor is sure playing her cards right.

[00:04:29] Happy trails.

[00:04:30] Old Falcons.

[00:04:31] Moronis.

[00:04:32] You're next.

[00:04:33] Next.

[00:04:33] I guess Sophia will task Viti with hunting down the Penguin.

[00:04:37] I don't believe Oz can talk his way out of this one.

[00:04:40] Expecting some heavy action next week?

[00:04:43] Think on your feet.

[00:04:44] Victor Zaz Von Doom.

[00:04:46] P.S.

[00:04:47] Not sure to trust a Theo Rossi character with or without Shades.

[00:04:53] Very good.

[00:04:54] Very good.

[00:04:55] Yes.

[00:04:55] Theo Rossi, of course, played the character of Shades in Luke Cage, in case you didn't watch that show.

[00:04:59] So, yeah.

[00:05:01] Is he trustworthy or not with or without Shades?

[00:05:03] As you see this episode, trustworthy I guess to Sophia.

[00:05:07] Yeah.

[00:05:08] I think he's probably almost feels like, I don't know, maybe some kind of reverse Stockholm syndrome or even dare I say a Harley Quinn to Joker.

[00:05:18] Like he kind of seems in awe of her.

[00:05:23] And it's like she's rested the power of control over him and he's a bit kind of in awe of her.

[00:05:31] Yeah.

[00:05:32] But as Victor says, do we trust him at all if he's played the characters he's played in the past?

[00:05:37] Maybe not.

[00:05:38] Yeah.

[00:05:38] It's difficult to know now because I'm not really sure of the character.

[00:05:42] Exactly.

[00:05:43] Exactly.

[00:05:44] Great stuff.

[00:05:44] Thanks very much for your thoughts on last week's episode, Victor.

[00:05:46] Great to hear from you on this season of The Penguin.

[00:05:48] Absolutely.

[00:05:49] Good stuff.

[00:05:50] Thanks, Victor.

[00:05:51] We also have an email on last week's episode from Meryl who says,

[00:05:54] What an amazing character this series has crafted with Christine Milioti as Sophia Falcone.

[00:05:58] I love how great of a character study this episode was in exploring every facet of Sophia as she journeys through the evils of Gotham.

[00:06:05] After re-watching The Batman, I've come away with the revelation that Carmine Falcone was the actual big bad of that film

[00:06:10] and every other faction, Batman, Selina and Riddler, was going against him to take him down.

[00:06:15] His control and reach was so potent and deep, it took a lot to eventually stop him.

[00:06:20] And this series is basically the fallout chapter of what happens next when you remove a figure of status, power and influence.

[00:06:26] Nature abhors a vacuum after all.

[00:06:28] So that power of vacuum must be filled with something.

[00:06:30] Also, I'm wondering if you guys watch the Inside the Episode segment at the end of the episode or on YouTube after the episodes are out.

[00:06:36] It gives a lot of insight on certain things the writers and other players on the board were going for with the story.

[00:06:41] Shout out to Mark Strong for portraying a slightly different interpretation of Falcone,

[00:06:44] but one that conveys something completely different than what John Turturro was giving in The Batman.

[00:06:49] Both actors had a different aspect of this character to give off a certain aura,

[00:06:52] and I'd say they definitely captured that perfectly.

[00:06:55] Also, Mark Strong's forehead is a pretty defining feature of this actor.

[00:06:58] Not a bad thing, but you could definitely tell that this was a different actor.

[00:07:01] Also, I've heard others bring this up, and I noticed it too, but when he says Sophia will take over,

[00:07:07] he chooses his words carefully.

[00:07:08] They'll do what he says.

[00:07:10] Translation, everyone will still listen to him and work for him, while Sophia will be a public face.

[00:07:15] The charity is also part of it.

[00:07:17] The name of it is after his wife, who he killed.

[00:07:19] Philanthropy, to cover up the crime element that lies beneath, works every time.

[00:07:23] He was also gaslighting and disrespecting way earlier than we thought.

[00:07:27] From when Sophia was a child to later in her adult life, he changed tactics, but the formula was still the same.

[00:07:33] For me, five makeshift gas chambers, ditched alliances through saving your own skin, and mashed magpies made of five.

[00:07:40] Excellent, Meryl.

[00:07:41] Very good, Meryl.

[00:07:42] Yes, I do like the mashed magpies.

[00:07:44] Poor magpie.

[00:07:45] She doesn't do very well these shows at all.

[00:07:46] She doesn't last long, does she?

[00:07:49] It's such a shame, because I could see she could be another really good pickpocket or thief type person, a bit like Catwoman.

[00:07:58] Yeah.

[00:07:58] So, yeah, real shame about old magpie, but mashed magpies, I do like it.

[00:08:03] Yeah, I think you're right.

[00:08:04] I think definitely Mark Strong, who I absolutely adore, and Turturro bring their own thing here.

[00:08:13] I think I, in some ways, prefer Mark Strong's version, but he's also, I feel, given the nature of it, it feels very much like you kind of get to know Carmine Falcone a bit better than what you did from Batman the movie.

[00:08:28] Mm-hmm .

[00:08:29] But I do really enjoy Mark Strong's portrayal here.

[00:08:33] It just feels so controlling and manipulative.

[00:08:38] Yeah.

[00:08:38] And as you say, really picking his words very, very carefully.

[00:08:43] In some ways, you're absolutely right.

[00:08:45] This is the vacuum.

[00:08:47] He was the A-game of Gotham, really, here.

[00:08:52] Um, resources, money, uh, men, you know, a whole network of, uh, of a crime syndicate, you know, and actually what you're hearing in, in this, um, series is he took down the tryouts.

[00:09:09] He limited them to Chinatown.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:11] He effectively neutralized the Moronis.

[00:09:13] Mm-hmm .

[00:09:14] And I think there's a really good piece around the difference between the Moronis and the Falcons here in episode five as well, uh, that we'll get to later.

[00:09:24] But, uh, I, I think, uh, that's a really important, uh, like, parallel theory that's going on here in this world.

[00:09:33] Yeah, it's not just about the rise of Batman, but it is the fall of established crime, in a sense.

[00:09:41] Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:41] Um, you know, so really interesting.

[00:09:43] Yeah.

[00:09:43] Yeah.

[00:09:43] I really love that pick up a bit, uh, about, um, Carman Falcone being the big bad of the Batman movie.

[00:09:49] And then we're into kind of the second season here, the second part of the story with the penguin rising to be the big bad.

[00:09:55] I wonder how they're going to manage that.

[00:09:56] If they're going to have three Batman movies, which is the plan, uh, with Robert Pattinson and maybe another TV show in between.

[00:10:03] Would it be like, you know, five seasons of a TV show where you have one big bad centering on a movie, then on the series, a movie, and then on the series, and then on the movie again.

[00:10:11] Yeah.

[00:10:11] You know, something like that bring back Joker in the third Batman movie and he's your final big bad or something like that.

[00:10:15] You know, um, it's a really interesting idea.

[00:10:18] As for the, um, episode segments at the end of the episode, we don't get to see those.

[00:10:21] Um, unfortunately they're not provided to us as part of our, uh, preview episodes that we get for review, but there is a penguin podcast, the official podcast that comes out the day after the episodes are released.

[00:10:31] Um, which I do get to listen to occasionally.

[00:10:33] They are, um, great interviews with the, with the cast and the people behind the scenes, uh, and given their motivation.

[00:10:39] Um, but they are also about an error as well.

[00:10:41] And we have to get our episodes out.

[00:10:42] So we, uh, we don't listen to them before we record our podcast.

[00:10:45] That is true.

[00:10:45] We do drop in and catch up.

[00:10:47] It's been really interesting.

[00:10:48] There's a great, uh, great first episode, I think, uh, where Colin Farrell talks a lot about his approach to the character and how, how, uh, difficult it was over the course of, of this many episodes, um, working, uh, in this character of the penguin after just doing a small bit in the movies, really.

[00:11:03] So, um, yeah, highly recommend that.

[00:11:05] Excellent stuff.

[00:11:06] Thanks so much, Meryl for the feedback.

[00:11:08] Really good.

[00:11:09] Good stuff.

[00:11:10] Absolutely.

[00:11:10] We got a little bit of feedback on this episode coming after you get into our discussion.

[00:11:15] Absolutely.

[00:11:15] Let us get into our spoiler filled discussion of episode five of the penguin homecoming.

[00:11:22] Derek, who gave us what, where, when, and how?

[00:11:25] Well, the show of course is based on characters created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane for detective comics, spinning out of Matt Reeves, the Batman and under showrunner Lauren LaFontaine.

[00:11:33] Frank, this episode was written by Brianna Gibson and Shay Ogubana.

[00:11:36] Brianna used to work as a script coordinator on The Walking Dead and Fear the Walking Dead.

[00:11:40] Interesting.

[00:11:41] Yeah.

[00:11:41] It's an interesting one.

[00:11:42] I like one of those.

[00:11:43] Yes, me too.

[00:11:44] I liked the first three seasons of, uh, of Fear the Walking Dead and, uh, liked all seasons of The Walking Dead, so.

[00:11:49] I liked The Walking Dead.

[00:11:50] There you go.

[00:11:51] And, uh, Shay Ogbona is the creator and lead writer in the Samuel L. Jackson, uh, miniseries Fight Night that came out just in the last couple of months.

[00:11:58] Um, it's called Fight Night, the Million Dollar Heist.

[00:12:00] I have to check that out.

[00:12:01] It's on Peacock over in the U.S., which takes a lot longer, uh, to get over to European stories.

[00:12:06] Oh, yeah.

[00:12:07] But, uh, has an amazing cast and I'll watch anything with Samuel L. Jackson in it, so.

[00:12:11] Definitely.

[00:12:12] Yeah.

[00:12:12] Good stuff.

[00:12:13] And this episode was once again directed by Helen Shaver, who directed episode four as well.

[00:12:18] Good stuff.

[00:12:19] John, do you want to tell us what they gave us through this synopsis for The Penguin episode five, Homecoming?

[00:12:24] Sure.

[00:12:24] Annoyed that Salvatore Moroni's wife Nadia stole his drug business out from under him, Oz Cobb and his crew kidnapped their son, Taj.

[00:12:33] Oz issues an ultimatum to the Moronis, offering to return Taj to them in exchange for the mushrooms used for the drug Bliss.

[00:12:41] During the exchange, Oz, who has bribed a prison guard to assassinate Sal Moroni and covered Taj with gasoline, kills Taj and Nadia by setting them on fire.

[00:12:51] But the fire activates the chemical fire extinguisher, destroying most of the Bliss mushrooms.

[00:12:56] However, his plot against Sal Moroni doesn't go as planned, as Sal survives the attempt on his life, escaping prison.

[00:13:05] Meanwhile, Victor is tasked with bringing Oz's mother, Frances, to safety while he deals with the failure of his great plan.

[00:13:12] Vic chooses to hide her in the one place no one would suspect, the flood-damaged ruins of Crown Point.

[00:13:19] When Oz finally arrives to lay low with them after being shunned by his girlfriend Eve, he's left with nothing.

[00:13:25] But it sparks a memory in Oz of when he and his brothers used to have the city as their playground.

[00:13:31] He brings Vic to a hidden, abandoned underground trolley station where he plans to set up his brand new base of operations.

[00:13:39] Meanwhile, after the death of all her family, Gia Vitti is sent to a children's home and following hours of torture,

[00:13:47] Johnny Vitti decides to support Sofia's bid to head the family after they reminisce about her mother, Isabel Gigante.

[00:13:56] Joined by Dr. Julian Rush, who has fallen in love with her, Sofia rebrands the family under her mother's name and earns the loyalty of Carmine's men

[00:14:05] by arguing how they were similarly mistreated and neglected under Carmine's rule.

[00:14:11] When Johnny objects to her plans to make peace with Sal Moroni, Sofia executes him, severing the last tie to the Falcone crime family.

[00:14:20] To cement her new place in Gotham, she meets with Salvatore Moroni to form an alliance of their families and take over the city.

[00:14:28] But first they're going to kill Oz Cobb, the common source of their problems.

[00:14:33] I have to say that's one of the moments I really loved in this episode when Sofia turned around to Sal Moroni and was like,

[00:14:39] I'm not going to kill you because that's what Oz wants. We're going to team up and we're going to kill him.

[00:14:43] I don't know why, but it just really struck me as a great moment when the bad guys who are being played suddenly realise they're not the bad guys.

[00:14:49] The bad guy is the guy that's manipulating them.

[00:14:52] But the thing is, and then take over the city and then probably kill Sal after that.

[00:14:56] Probably.

[00:14:56] Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:58] Let's get rid of our common problem first.

[00:15:01] Exactly.

[00:15:02] The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[00:15:04] Yep, yep.

[00:15:05] They do say they're going to team up, but we'll talk about it, of course, as we get into our top five case notes for the episode.

[00:15:11] Let's start out with case note one and Oz making his play.

[00:15:15] So this follows on directly from the end of the previous week's episode where Victor had come to save Oz as Maserati crashed in,

[00:15:23] crashed the car, killing one of Sofia's men.

[00:15:25] And now we see the Maserati right at the beginning of the episode being burnt out by Oz as he's walking away.

[00:15:31] Yeah.

[00:15:32] And I love to have the conversation again about Rex Calabrese, the conversation that was had between Oz and Alberto Falcone in the first episode.

[00:15:41] Yeah.

[00:15:41] Where he was laughed at by Alberto and it led to his death.

[00:15:44] This time he's having the conversation with Vic and Vic gets it instantly.

[00:15:48] He goes, oh, I understand what you're talking about.

[00:15:51] I understand this guy must have been so influential in your local neighborhood when you were growing up.

[00:15:55] You know, he instantly gets it.

[00:15:57] You can tell because of Vic's being really apologetic about what happened to the Maserati.

[00:16:01] And he goes, I'm sorry.

[00:16:03] I'm sorry we destroyed your chariot.

[00:16:05] So he knows exactly what Oz is getting at, you know?

[00:16:08] Absolutely.

[00:16:09] I mean, this is really good.

[00:16:10] I love the fact that in a sense, it's almost a bit like them proclaiming their love for one another at the start of the marriage where you just have Oz saying you and me to the end.

[00:16:23] I mean, this is basically the play now plays out and it's success or it's failure.

[00:16:32] And it's to the end, you know?

[00:16:35] And I really like that because it's kind of like this marriage where then, as you say, Oz has always kind of understood it.

[00:16:42] Victor now understands what's happening.

[00:16:45] You know, Oz is the, he's really praising Victor here.

[00:16:49] You know, he stepped up for Oz and he's kind of thankful for that loyalty that's been shown.

[00:16:56] And as he says, it's worth a hundred Maseratis.

[00:16:59] Yeah.

[00:16:59] That's worth a lot.

[00:17:00] You know?

[00:17:01] And so I, I really thought this was, um, just really good how, how then he calls in his men as well.

[00:17:08] And, you know, this is really right.

[00:17:10] Fight or flight here.

[00:17:11] Either I'm going underground, which ultimately he does, but he's making the fight play to begin with, which is, um, this whole sequence of capturing the son of Sal and Nadia Maroni.

[00:17:30] Um, and, um, in order to make an exchange for, um, the mushrooms, uh, which create the bliss drug.

[00:17:37] I mean, what an idiot Taj on TikTok saying that the Maronis are going to take out, um, their vengeance on the one that wronged them on TikTok from the tattoo parlor where he's getting his tattoo done.

[00:17:49] Like, you know, I know Oz isn't the smartest person in the world, but it doesn't need to be to take someone like Taj Maroni.

[00:17:58] Taj Maroni is an absolute idiot here.

[00:18:00] Um, I would, the only guess I have to give him a little bit of credit is that he must've done, he must've been doing the tattoo on a few segments.

[00:18:09] Cause you don't always get your full tattoo, kind of the back tattoos that he's getting done.

[00:18:13] It's probably a few visits that he has to do.

[00:18:15] So, um, so maybe they're staking the place out that decided to edit that for time.

[00:18:19] Cause otherwise it looks like he's live on TikTok and then Oz drives over there and kills everybody in place at five minutes after he's done it.

[00:18:26] So I think it might be keep an eye out on the, on the tattoo parlor.

[00:18:30] The next time he goes back, we're taking everybody out.

[00:18:32] It must be something like that.

[00:18:33] Absolutely.

[00:18:34] I must say, I really thought that scene was great.

[00:18:37] Brilliant.

[00:18:38] You have Taj with his, um, um, earphones on and you just see, uh, his protection getting taken out, uh, shot down and including the poor tattoo artist as well.

[00:18:52] And he's just kind of left there.

[00:18:54] I just, I love that scene.

[00:18:55] I love the fact that, you know, when the sound does come through, you have Victor, who's the one that is grabs him, throws a few punches in order to effectively, um, subdue him as then you get Oz and giving him a foot to the face.

[00:19:12] I'm hoping it's not the foot with the metal bar across the bottom that supports his club foot because otherwise that really would have hurt.

[00:19:20] It certainly knocks him out.

[00:19:22] Yeah.

[00:19:22] Um, I do like this as well, cause I think it plays a little bit into sort of a bit later with Victor as well.

[00:19:28] You know, he's kind of done the raced in, thrown a few punches, gotten the, gotten the target.

[00:19:34] Yeah.

[00:19:34] Um, and he's kind of pleased as punch and ultimately Oz wants him to babysit his mother.

[00:19:40] Absolutely.

[00:19:41] Weirdly, he sees that as a disappointment to begin with, but it's actually, um, the, the more prestigious thing because it's Oz's mother.

[00:19:51] It's the most trusted position you can be in.

[00:19:54] Exactly.

[00:19:54] Yeah.

[00:19:54] So he's not going to put Vic in any danger and he's going to make sure that his mother's taken care of by the only person that he trusts to do that.

[00:20:00] Yeah.

[00:20:01] Yeah.

[00:20:01] And then it's really interesting.

[00:20:02] We see Oz going to the Moronis to tell them that they've kidnapped Taj.

[00:20:08] Um, the confidence of the penguin here to walk into the prison where Sal and his wife are, his, Sal's the one in prison.

[00:20:15] And his wife can get out any time and has access to all of the Moronis men.

[00:20:19] And he's walking in there going, we've, we've kidnapped your son.

[00:20:22] You know, um, I love the conversation between the two of them as, as Nadia gets really aggressive with him and goes, there are rules here.

[00:20:29] You know, this is a member of our family.

[00:20:31] He's not a member of the crime family.

[00:20:32] He's one of our kids.

[00:20:34] Um, you can't threaten to kill him.

[00:20:36] And Oz's response is maybe I kidnapped the wrong one, meaning I could have, I could have just kidnapped you, Nadia.

[00:20:41] Well, that's it.

[00:20:42] Yeah. I mean, I kind of feel like it's almost the equivalent of social media disrupting like everyone's life with all its crap.

[00:20:49] It's like here we have Oz just disrupting the sort of old age and honored traditions of being a crime family.

[00:21:03] Like there's rules here and Oz is going against the rule.

[00:21:07] Exactly.

[00:21:07] And I think it's like only like later in this episode with Sophia, do you realize that she's also coming at it from a similar position of the rules changing.

[00:21:19] Absolutely.

[00:21:20] Even just in terms of the drug of choice and what it's doing.

[00:21:23] Yeah.

[00:21:23] You know, so it's kind of really interesting.

[00:21:25] I love how, um, as you say, like massive kahuna is really there for, uh, the penguin in terms of going in face to face with, with Sal.

[00:21:36] Um, and I guess this is where he's tricking them really into thinking that it may well be a rules based order whereby look, we'll make the, we'll make the exchange.

[00:21:47] It is.

[00:21:48] You get your son back.

[00:21:50] I want my plants back.

[00:21:52] You know, that's the exchange.

[00:21:54] And I love how Nadia speaks with Sal, um, in her own tongue, um, saying like she doesn't trust him.

[00:22:02] Yeah.

[00:22:03] Um, you know, he's just going to turn on us.

[00:22:04] He's going to turn on us.

[00:22:05] Yeah.

[00:22:06] And I mean, ultimately as well, she does think she is, um, playing it safe when she goes to actually do the exchange.

[00:22:16] And I think that this is where, you know, you underestimate Oz Cobb at your peril.

[00:22:20] Absolutely.

[00:22:21] I think she thinks bringing in just three or four, uh, extra men will be enough.

[00:22:26] Yeah.

[00:22:27] Um, and in the end, um, Oz is just sort of a, a way more elaborate, um, or inventive way of killing Taj and her.

[00:22:38] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:39] Um, in that, what's the first thing a mother will do if her son has been kidnapped and is brought back to her?

[00:22:45] It's to hug him.

[00:22:46] Yeah.

[00:22:46] Um, and Oz just lays a trail of gasoline from where he stood, um, and lights her.

[00:22:53] Like there's no doubt the second he got out of that car, there was no doubt in my mind he was covered in gasoline.

[00:23:00] That has to be what it was.

[00:23:02] You know, we saw.

[00:23:02] Yeah, well you see the cans in the back.

[00:23:04] Yeah.

[00:23:04] Exactly.

[00:23:04] But the second he walked out, you're kind of going, okay, Nadia's in a bad place right here.

[00:23:08] But I kind of expected that there'd be some shots fired off and, and Oz would maybe escape there with his life basically.

[00:23:16] I didn't think it was going to go down the way it did where they actually do take out all of Moroni's men.

[00:23:21] Just the two of them.

[00:23:21] Oz and the one guy he brought with him.

[00:23:23] Yeah.

[00:23:23] They take out all of, all of her men.

[00:23:26] And as you say, set fire to Taj and Nadia.

[00:23:29] That's a really brutal way to kill them.

[00:23:31] And you know, exactly as you were saying a moment ago, the big thing about Oz here is he is switching up the rule.

[00:23:36] This is the changeover from the old guard of Gotham to the people that had, that were subservient to them in the past now rising up and throwing out all the old rules because they want to be in charge now.

[00:23:48] In the past, over the course of the many years, the Moroni's and the, and the Falconi's have been in power.

[00:23:53] There's been people overthrowing.

[00:23:55] Yeah.

[00:23:55] So there, there's always been people within the family getting into higher positions, but they have had the stranglehold on Gotham.

[00:24:02] And it's, it's like this moment in Gotham history where everybody else is going, hang on a second.

[00:24:07] We're not going to give it to these five or 10 people having control of this city.

[00:24:11] We're going to overthrow it.

[00:24:12] So yeah, it's a great conversation as, um, Oz has already seen that, that Sophia's killed the Falconi.

[00:24:19] She saw the news report and he arrives back to his men, uh, who are guarding Taj in, in, uh, Eve's apartment.

[00:24:25] And he says to them, why do you care about any of those people?

[00:24:27] They never paid you well.

[00:24:29] None of you were made men.

[00:24:30] None of you were really part of the family.

[00:24:31] Um, they never gave you the money you deserved.

[00:24:34] None of them deserve any of your tears at all.

[00:24:36] So we are now setting up a new crime family effectively with Penguin at the head.

[00:24:41] Yeah.

[00:24:42] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:24:43] Absolutely.

[00:24:43] And also sort of concurrent to all of this, you have Oz after, um, going to face Sal at Blankgate to, um, organize and set up this exchange, um, with Nadia.

[00:24:56] Um, he, he's paid one of the prison guards to sort of shiv, uh, Sal at some point.

[00:25:04] I love how it's like proper old school, you know, this was from Oz as the guard goes in.

[00:25:11] But Sal does survive this and you see him phoning up in a sense, quite gleeful, um, because he survived it.

[00:25:19] And, you know, him giving Oz a piece of his mind.

[00:25:22] And, um, I mean, this is kind of where it slightly falls apart for Oz now, because not only are the mushrooms destroyed from the, the, um, sprinkler and the fire system, uh, that's, that's set off with the death of Taj and Nadia.

[00:25:41] Um, it's also that when he's realizing that all his mushrooms are, are dead, uh, he gets the call from Sal Roney to say that, look, I survived your assassination attempt here.

[00:25:55] Yeah.

[00:25:55] I just really liked how it was played.

[00:25:58] It's almost like Oz is angry.

[00:26:00] And so he just bites back and he goes, well, it's funny you should say that, you know, try calling your wife and son.

[00:26:07] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:08] And so on.

[00:26:09] And it's just like, that's so brutal.

[00:26:11] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:11] Like, um, but really, really well done.

[00:26:14] Um, uh, just the delivery of it.

[00:26:17] Yeah.

[00:26:17] I really enjoyed.

[00:26:18] Uh, Califaral had some great moments in the, in these seats.

[00:26:21] There's also the one where he's, when he's bringing Taj out and Taj has got the, um, the tape on his, on his mouth.

[00:26:27] And, uh, Nadia is going, remove the tape from my son's mouth.

[00:26:30] And he's going, he's a bit of a talker.

[00:26:31] I'm doing you a favor here.

[00:26:33] Yeah.

[00:26:33] Yeah.

[00:26:33] I really like that.

[00:26:34] But, uh, but you're right.

[00:26:35] The, the kind of threat back to Salvatore there where he's telling, effectively, he is telling him that he killed his wife.

[00:26:41] There's no moments from, from these scenes where Penguin is trying to cover it up or throw the blame on somebody else.

[00:26:48] He walked in there, told them, I've kidnapped your son.

[00:26:52] And now he's on the phone to Sal saying, I killed your wife and your son.

[00:26:56] So there's no moments where he's hiding behind anybody else.

[00:26:58] Not at all.

[00:26:58] You know, like he kind of did with the death of Alberto.

[00:27:01] Not anymore.

[00:27:01] It's all out in the open.

[00:27:02] Yeah.

[00:27:02] It's playing in real time out in the open.

[00:27:05] Yeah.

[00:27:05] But when he killed Alberto, he was trying to put it on somebody else.

[00:27:07] He was trying to put it on the Moroni family at that time.

[00:27:09] Now it's him going, no, I did it.

[00:27:11] And I don't care.

[00:27:12] You know?

[00:27:13] Yeah.

[00:27:13] Sal does say to him, he wouldn't have gotten out of prison if it wasn't for, uh, if it wasn't for Oz because that's how he got access to the keys and got himself out of prison.

[00:27:20] Yeah.

[00:27:20] So I thought that was really interesting.

[00:27:22] But his grand plan, which was to get all the bliss plants back, him to set up the drug operation and kill all of the Moronis in one fell swoop, doesn't work actually.

[00:27:30] Because now he doesn't have the bliss plants.

[00:27:33] He only has two of them.

[00:27:34] And Sal Moroni is still alive and very angry at me.

[00:27:37] Well, interestingly as well is I think he's looking at taking out the Moronis because he thinks to my mind that they have also taken care of Sophia.

[00:27:48] And, but he sees on the TV in Blackgate that Sophia has survived.

[00:27:53] Yes.

[00:27:53] So again, it's another little dent to actually his plan, but he's taken it too far now because he's set up the exchange.

[00:28:01] He's paid the guard, you know?

[00:28:04] And yet he, he sees that there is still a Falcone crime family here despite having seen that they have died.

[00:28:13] Yes, exactly.

[00:28:14] You know?

[00:28:14] Exactly.

[00:28:15] Anything else about Oz's play at this point?

[00:28:18] No, I, I just really liked it.

[00:28:20] I liked that he went for it.

[00:28:21] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:23] Ultimately.

[00:28:23] All out and all in.

[00:28:24] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:25] And that's the thing, as he says to Victor, you and me to the end.

[00:28:28] So this is like all the cards being pushed in.

[00:28:31] This is the big white meringue wedding that they're having.

[00:28:37] Yes.

[00:28:38] You know?

[00:28:38] They're all in.

[00:28:39] And Victor now understands it.

[00:28:42] Oz gets it because he's got no other choice.

[00:28:45] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:46] Well, then let's get on to case note number two.

[00:28:48] Sophia's chat with Johnny Vitti because that's exactly how last week's episode ended.

[00:28:52] With only one member of the Falcone family alive, Johnny Vitti.

[00:28:56] And Sophia saying that she needed to talk to him.

[00:28:59] The only other member of the family that's alive is Gaia, who Sophia had taken out of the house while she gassed everybody else other than Johnny.

[00:29:09] Interesting opening to the scene, though, where we see Gaia being sent off to a children's home.

[00:29:14] And Sophia doesn't seem massively perturbed by what she's just sent her cousin's child off to.

[00:29:22] No, not really.

[00:29:23] Doesn't seem to be like comforting her or saying she can stay with me or anything like that.

[00:29:27] It's just off she goes to the children's home, you know?

[00:29:29] Which is pretty, you know, again, Sophia, as we can see, is...

[00:29:33] But I don't think she was ever going to suddenly, like, adopt her and...

[00:29:36] And I think this is the kind of dividing line with Sophia.

[00:29:41] Yes, it may have been brutal what she did, but in a sense, if there's any justification, she spelled it out at the dinner table.

[00:29:51] And Gaia has no kind of input into that because it was 10 years ago.

[00:29:56] You know, she is innocent.

[00:29:58] Absolutely.

[00:29:59] Absolutely.

[00:29:59] I just more meant her being sent off to the children's home seemed a bit of a harsh thing to happen to the poor kid when she came from a very rich family up until morning.

[00:30:08] But I think if you're planning, it might be something where that's where she's going to in the meantime.

[00:30:13] Because I think if you're looking to establish yourself as a crime leader in the city, that's probably where she's got to focus her time.

[00:30:21] Oh, absolutely.

[00:30:21] Yes, a kid wouldn't be great around there.

[00:30:23] No, I wouldn't have thought so.

[00:30:25] But we do have police chief Mackenzie Brock coming back.

[00:30:27] There's a character played by Con O'Neill in the Batman movie.

[00:30:31] Kind of cool to see him back on screen here.

[00:30:33] And it's interesting that as the conversation goes on, you realize he's not really there to investigate the Falconning murder.

[00:30:39] He's there to just kind of taunt Sophia about all her family being dead and kind of let her into the idea that he probably knows it's her that did it as well.

[00:30:49] But I love the pushback from Sophia.

[00:30:51] Is it just that you're worried about all the kickbacks that you're not going to be doing anymore?

[00:30:55] Are you going to be sitting around with all your buddies later on looking over the crime scene photographs of my family and then selling them on to replace that money that you've lost?

[00:31:03] It was just a real good pushback.

[00:31:07] It was really good.

[00:31:09] I must say it was really good.

[00:31:10] It's funny, though.

[00:31:11] I didn't know whether I fully understood the chief of police Brock here.

[00:31:18] The voice seems so strained.

[00:31:20] But I remember that's what it was like in the Batman as well.

[00:31:24] But it just took a while for my ear to tune into the kind of rasp.

[00:31:29] It's more of a rasp.

[00:31:31] It's kind of like he's had surgery on his voice box or something like that.

[00:31:35] I'd have to look that up.

[00:31:36] I know Conor Neal is most well known as an actor in musical theater.

[00:31:40] He was in Blood Brothers for years.

[00:31:42] That's where he got his first award.

[00:31:44] He's a British.

[00:31:46] A British actor, yeah.

[00:31:47] Yeah.

[00:31:47] In Blood Brothers, which is a musical.

[00:31:49] So I would presume he may have had some damage to his vocal cords from there.

[00:31:55] But I don't know.

[00:31:56] So I don't want to say that.

[00:31:58] But the choice, at least, that he's made for this character does make it quite difficult to understand.

[00:32:03] And we don't have subtitles on our version of the episode.

[00:32:08] So I couldn't see it there.

[00:32:09] I'd say it was more tuning into it, actually.

[00:32:11] Just because it's so raspy by the nature of the character.

[00:32:18] So, yeah.

[00:32:19] No, I really enjoyed that.

[00:32:21] I love the fact then that kind of transitions to going down to the Falcon family crypt where he's chained up as Johnny Vesey.

[00:32:32] So he has survived.

[00:32:33] Yeah.

[00:32:33] It's interesting.

[00:32:34] A bit like Victor Von Doom in the feedback.

[00:32:37] I definitely thought that Johnny Vesey was going to be there to kind of, yeah, like, haunt track Oswald because he hated Oswald as much as Sophia now does.

[00:32:55] Yeah.

[00:32:56] So it was interesting then seeing him kind of stuffed down in the mausoleum and, in a sense, trying to sort of plead for his life here.

[00:33:06] I mean, yeah, you know, he's been drenched with water, ice-cold water, down in a crypt and, you know, chained up.

[00:33:17] And Sophia is really, she's not going to take no for an answer, basically.

[00:33:23] I mean, like, Johnny Vesey is basically saying, just kill me because, obviously, I can't say anything that's going to make you forgive me.

[00:33:31] After a while, he starts talking to her about how he tried to help Isabella escape.

[00:33:37] And that was the time when Falcone had basically killed her.

[00:33:43] He got wind of it, I presume, but that Johnny Vesey had a car and both Alberto and Sophia were going to be taken with her.

[00:33:54] She was going to leave with her and that she'd done this before, but she'd always come back because of Alberto and Sophia.

[00:34:01] And so this time she was going to take them, but it didn't play out.

[00:34:05] And I do really, really like the fact that Sophia called it out immediately, yet you kept on working for him for years.

[00:34:15] You were his underboss, you know, and...

[00:34:20] Oh, you felt so sorry for her that you worked for him for another 10 years.

[00:34:23] Exactly.

[00:34:23] 20 years afterwards, yeah.

[00:34:25] And I just really liked this because it was just so tense.

[00:34:29] And then as it plays out, you realize that the whole thing in the mausoleum from Sophia was that literally what she needed was untraceable money.

[00:34:41] That is what Johnny could help her with.

[00:34:44] That's what she wanted from him.

[00:34:46] Actually, in the end, she took a bit of his advice in that not only did he get the untraceable money for her,

[00:34:52] but he was able to bring in those members of the Falcone cartel that he would have led and ordered around

[00:35:04] because you need more than just money.

[00:35:08] You need reputation and muscle.

[00:35:11] And he brings that, but then is dispatched really, really quickly.

[00:35:17] Absolutely.

[00:35:18] And I'm just like going, that wasn't a smart play, Johnny, what you did there.

[00:35:23] I don't think he had any way out of this.

[00:35:24] No, I don't.

[00:35:25] And what I liked about it, you know, when he's talking about those stories of Isabella Giganti to Sophia,

[00:35:32] he's still very harsh about it.

[00:35:34] Like he's telling the stories to her and then he's going, she tried to get away once before.

[00:35:38] If it wasn't for you stupid kids, she would have basically.

[00:35:40] So he doesn't seem like he's trying very hard to get on Sophia's good side.

[00:35:45] He knows he's dead.

[00:35:46] Either he dies in a horrible way here by pneumonia or by freezing to death where she leaves him in the mausoleum,

[00:35:54] or she'll kill him at some point later because when he gives her what she wants,

[00:35:58] she'll kill him is what he believes anyway, which turns out to be true.

[00:36:03] So he kind of knew, I think that the death was coming at some point,

[00:36:08] but he felt if he offers to bring respect to her and bring the family towards her with his help,

[00:36:15] that maybe he could do what he did with Carmine and stay at the underboss for a bit longer under Sophia.

[00:36:21] Yeah.

[00:36:21] And to be honest, he may have been permitted to do that possibly,

[00:36:27] but I think Sophia is smarter than that.

[00:36:29] Yeah, I don't think so.

[00:36:30] I think she always would have just seen him as a threat given he threatened to kill her a few episodes ago.

[00:36:38] I think Sophia hates him and we kind of have this split into two different case notes.

[00:36:43] Our case note number three is goodbye, Falcone, hello, Gigante.

[00:36:48] And this is about what happens with Sophia after she frees Johnny.

[00:36:54] We don't see how this resolves.

[00:36:56] We see the end of the conversation before it goes into the ad break, basically,

[00:36:59] where Johnny Vitti says to her, I couldn't save your mother.

[00:37:04] Maybe I can save you.

[00:37:06] And we don't hear her answer to this.

[00:37:08] We just see her going around the house.

[00:37:11] She finds her mother's coat, sees her mother's real name on there, her maiden name as Gigante.

[00:37:17] And she chooses to take that as her new name for the family.

[00:37:22] And Dr. Julian Rush joins her.

[00:37:25] Sophia Ross's character comes in and joins her, saying that he knew instantly when he watched the TV news

[00:37:30] that she's the one that had done the murder.

[00:37:32] And he can feel that she has found her freedom.

[00:37:35] She's finally found the thing that she's been looking for for all of those years,

[00:37:38] even when she was in Arkham.

[00:37:40] She's had her revenge.

[00:37:41] She's had her moment.

[00:37:42] And he tells her, effectively, that it was never the conversations or never the therapy

[00:37:49] and the treatment of Sophia that kept him coming back.

[00:37:51] It's his love for her.

[00:37:52] And he wants to stand by her side when she makes this new move.

[00:37:55] So here he is standing by her side.

[00:37:58] By her side for the things to come.

[00:38:00] Like, he looks on perfectly fine for a medical professional after she's put a bullet in Johnny's head.

[00:38:08] So, yes, I'm wondering if we'll see a bit of another side from Julian Rush.

[00:38:14] I don't recognize her name within the Batman canon, so I don't know quite how this character will play out.

[00:38:22] But it's almost, as I say, it's almost like this reverse Harley Quinn and Joker to some extent.

[00:38:29] Entirely possible.

[00:38:30] Entirely possible, yeah.

[00:38:31] I say reverse, but it's probably the same thing.

[00:38:33] It's the same, yeah.

[00:38:34] It is.

[00:38:35] You know, it's the psychiatrist falling in love with the patient, effectively.

[00:38:41] But I absolutely adored Sophia making her play as leader of the Gigante cartel.

[00:38:50] In many respects as well, it's just like she's a real, real good character.

[00:38:56] As I say, like, yes, she's still a crime lord.

[00:38:59] She will kill.

[00:39:01] Not many redeeming features in that sense.

[00:39:04] But you sense how she's been wronged.

[00:39:07] And she, you know, she talks about how her mother has been wronged, how she was wronged.

[00:39:14] And ultimately then with the assembled sort of underlings or underbosses that would report into Johnny Vesey, how ultimately they were wronged as well.

[00:39:26] Absolutely.

[00:39:26] And that is a big important point here that she's making.

[00:39:29] And again, it ties into exactly the point that Oz made with his men.

[00:39:32] Yeah.

[00:39:33] None of these people are made men.

[00:39:34] And all of them were called in by their boss, by Johnny Vesey.

[00:39:38] And she's saying to them.

[00:39:40] You're not made men.

[00:39:41] You're not.

[00:39:41] Yeah.

[00:39:42] You know, not like Johnny Vesey here.

[00:39:44] Exactly.

[00:39:45] And I love that.

[00:39:46] Well, there's two elements to it.

[00:39:47] First of all, I'm going to address the elephant in the room.

[00:39:51] I guess the family, you know.

[00:39:52] And they're all there kind of like, okay.

[00:39:54] And then she kind of just tells them, you know, they dispense with my mother and they treated her as they treated you as pawns.

[00:40:05] You are overlooked.

[00:40:06] You are expendable.

[00:40:07] I'm going to stop this war between the new Gigante cartel and the Moronis.

[00:40:18] And, you know, you just see Johnny just not really getting it.

[00:40:23] He's like, hang on a second.

[00:40:25] Hang on.

[00:40:26] Wait a second.

[00:40:26] It's again what we were saying about Oz, this idea of Sophia coming in and throwing out all the old rules.

[00:40:32] The idea that you would throw away the family name, this one that struck fear into the heart of everybody and has controlled the lawmakers, controlled the police service, controlled everything in the city.

[00:40:43] And throw that name out for the name of a woman who died 20 years ago, effectively.

[00:40:48] And it was strangled to death by Falcone.

[00:40:51] Instantly, you see Johnny's going, you can't do this.

[00:40:53] And she's absolutely standing up in front of all of these people and going, it's a new time.

[00:40:59] You will get paid more money than you ever thought.

[00:41:01] And you will get paid what you're worth as well.

[00:41:03] So she hands over all of that money, the clean money that has no connection to the family.

[00:41:08] She hands it all over to them.

[00:41:10] They have to come and take it to join her.

[00:41:11] And turns it into blood money because she pulls it into the blood that spilled out from Johnny's brains onto the table.

[00:41:18] I really, you know, it is.

[00:41:20] It's not just that he interrupts her about the family name, but it's almost a protest that this, as you say, the new direction.

[00:41:27] Yeah.

[00:41:27] That she's going to stop and make peace with the Moronis.

[00:41:30] It's like, well, we wouldn't do that.

[00:41:32] You know, we finished them off.

[00:41:34] And I think it links in really well with her conversation then with Moroni.

[00:41:39] Mm-hmm.

[00:41:40] Which I think is really superb.

[00:41:42] But, yeah, she gives them the money and they're there, you know, to go and work for her.

[00:41:48] And you have Julian Rush looking on all quite pleased as punt.

[00:41:52] Absolutely.

[00:41:52] He knows what's going to happen, I think, at that point.

[00:41:56] But I almost got the feeling that she was, this was her big thing that she was going to do.

[00:42:03] Regardless of whether Johnny gave her the money or not, I felt like she was going to kill him in front of everybody to prove that she was willing to do it.

[00:42:12] It's easy to walk into a room and I don't think anybody doubted that she was responsible, but it's easy to walk into a room and go,

[00:42:17] yeah, I killed all of my family, but much more difficult and much more underlying of your position if you walk into the room with your uncle and kill him in front of everybody else.

[00:42:25] Yeah.

[00:42:26] And go, a new family is starting now, you know?

[00:42:28] That is a much more definitive moment for everybody in the room to realize that you actually mean what you say, right?

[00:42:36] Yeah, definitely.

[00:42:37] It could have been just an accidental ghastly that killed all of her family and she's taken credit for it.

[00:42:41] Here, right now, you can see her with a gun putting a bullet in her uncle's head.

[00:42:45] Yeah, you know exactly who she is.

[00:42:47] Yeah, from that moment onwards.

[00:42:48] And again, she joins the ranks of the new villains of Gotham, I think, here.

[00:42:53] The only old villain of Gotham we have now left is Sal Moroni.

[00:42:58] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:43:00] And I think on to our case note number four.

[00:43:03] Yes, Sal Moroni, like a stuck pig, is hanging out in a safe house ordering in Italian food from New Jersey and New York City.

[00:43:12] No, he's hanging out at his funky hideout.

[00:43:16] Yes.

[00:43:17] And I love how she says, I see you're fond of wood.

[00:43:22] Because it's a log cabin covered in wood, wood, wood, wood, wood.

[00:43:28] Yeah.

[00:43:29] Yeah, I mean, this is really good because immediately one of the new underbosses, you know, he sticks his head in.

[00:43:36] He's the one that shot the two guards.

[00:43:45] Well, absolutely.

[00:43:50] They're trying to put an end to our family wall.

[00:43:53] and of which to Sal that would immediately be I'm getting a bullet in the head.

[00:43:58] Absolutely.

[00:43:59] And I like how then she kind of brings this around about the effectively,

[00:44:04] you know, the reason for being of the Moronis versus the Falcons.

[00:44:09] You know, Sal says the Falcone family, they just eat each other.

[00:44:13] And, you know, Sophia is kind of saying, but I see the Moronis,

[00:44:17] you know, you care too much about your family.

[00:44:21] Yes.

[00:44:22] And Carmine always says you were sentimental.

[00:44:26] But then she brings it back to Oz to say, with my family,

[00:44:31] I had a driver who ratted me out hinting that it's Oz Cobb and he was rewarded.

[00:44:38] I was the one that was punished for over 10 years at Arkham with the family lying against me,

[00:44:45] you know, spinning against me.

[00:44:48] Effectively, Sal Moroni turns around and says,

[00:44:50] I would have cut out his tongue.

[00:44:53] And that's the thing.

[00:44:55] She tells him, I'm not a Falcone because he is.

[00:44:59] He's kind of like, but you're a Falcone.

[00:45:01] Yeah.

[00:45:01] And so she goes, no, I'm a Gigante.

[00:45:04] You know, she offers this alliance to Sal to merge the families, kill Oz Cobb and take over the city together.

[00:45:13] And I just loved how this played out.

[00:45:16] Absolutely.

[00:45:17] Yeah.

[00:45:17] Really, really good.

[00:45:18] Yeah.

[00:45:19] And it's such a great scene between these two.

[00:45:21] Yeah.

[00:45:21] Yeah.

[00:45:22] And another one of those rules you don't break when you're in the two biggest crime families.

[00:45:25] You don't merge the two families together to take over the city.

[00:45:27] The battle was always between those two families and her going, nope, that's not what it's about this time.

[00:45:33] It's about us getting together and we will run the city with the new drug effectively.

[00:45:37] So, but as I say, putting it at the top of the list that it's Oz's fault.

[00:45:42] I'm not going to kill you because that's what Oz has been trying to manipulate us into.

[00:45:45] The amount of people who have looked at Oz Cobb in this show and underestimated him.

[00:45:51] And he has been manipulating behind the scenes.

[00:45:54] He does believe that he's getting what he wants by sitting back in the darkness, in the shadows and pulling all the strings.

[00:46:00] Yeah.

[00:46:00] And he's been doing it.

[00:46:01] You know, he has been getting what he wants.

[00:46:04] But she's saying, enough of that.

[00:46:06] And I don't care what anybody tells me, the two of us are ganging up together and we're taking out Oz Cobb together.

[00:46:12] He's been manipulating us from behind the scenes.

[00:46:13] Yeah, he's our common enemy.

[00:46:15] He's the common threat.

[00:46:16] He's the one that has you with a wound in your stomach that has meant the death of your wife and son.

[00:46:24] And it is to the point, Sal's response is hugely emotional and revenge, vengeance orientated.

[00:46:36] You know, when he calls Oz after he survived that knife attack, you know, he's there.

[00:46:43] I'll hunt you down.

[00:46:44] There's nowhere you can hide.

[00:46:47] That's what Sophia has been saying should have happened to the killers of Alberto.

[00:46:53] Yes.

[00:46:53] Nothing happened.

[00:46:55] Yes, exactly.

[00:46:55] Just allowed to be the casualty of criminal war and let's not upset the boat.

[00:47:04] We can't start doing that.

[00:47:06] You know, Sal is I'm going after Oz.

[00:47:10] Yeah.

[00:47:10] And that's what she offers to him.

[00:47:12] Exactly.

[00:47:13] And it's just really, really good.

[00:47:15] It is.

[00:47:16] It is.

[00:47:17] Love it.

[00:47:18] Let's get on to our final case note then.

[00:47:20] Case note number five, Oz in exile.

[00:47:21] As you mentioned earlier on, Oz saying that his choice was kind of a fight or flight.

[00:47:25] He did the fight and now he has to do the fight.

[00:47:27] Yeah, exactly.

[00:47:28] But it does start off with Oz sending Victor to go and pick up Francis Cobb, his mom, from her home.

[00:47:37] So Victor goes out on his own.

[00:47:39] It's an interesting moment again with Francis where she thinks that Victor is her son coming back,

[00:47:44] showing him the baseball glove.

[00:47:46] But I love how her sense comes back to her at times.

[00:47:50] She's so well played when she suddenly comes back to herself and you expect she's just going to be,

[00:47:55] you know, a nice old lady, basically.

[00:47:57] You know, but suddenly she's asking Victor what's happening because she recognizes him.

[00:48:03] And it's very unusual that Oz would send someone that he recognizes.

[00:48:06] So something must have gone really wrong.

[00:48:09] And Victor's going, well, actually, this is how everything's playing out.

[00:48:13] The Falcones are dead.

[00:48:15] Oz was responsible for that.

[00:48:16] That was part of his plan.

[00:48:17] And now he's taken out the Moronis.

[00:48:20] This is all the plan coming together.

[00:48:22] Until the Moronis are taken out, I'll be here to take care of you, basically.

[00:48:27] But that's it.

[00:48:27] It's like there's a lot of heat on Oz at the moment.

[00:48:30] You know, you need to be looked after.

[00:48:32] And that's the thing.

[00:48:33] It seems really good until it's not because it's gone south.

[00:48:38] But the pride that comes out in France is when she hears that the Falcones have been taken out by Oz

[00:48:43] because she's thinking of the Falcones as being the much bigger crime family.

[00:48:47] There's no way Oz could get to them.

[00:48:48] And he worked for them.

[00:48:50] And equally, it's the disappointment of being brought back to Crown Point.

[00:48:56] And, you know, so we'd heard that Oz had grown up in the same, you know, in the same area.

[00:49:03] And everybody comes by.

[00:49:04] Yeah.

[00:49:04] Yeah.

[00:49:06] As Victor.

[00:49:08] And I just really enjoy that, like, her conversation with Victor.

[00:49:15] She just said how it reminded her of her apartment, that she had the kids brought up, and that the place is cursed.

[00:49:26] You realize she has no love for this neighborhood.

[00:49:30] Absolutely.

[00:49:30] And what it did, what happened here.

[00:49:33] You know, and it's kind of alluded to a bit when Victor asks Oz what happened to his brothers.

[00:49:38] And, you know, kind of noncommittally just says the city took them in the same way that it took your parents and your sister.

[00:49:48] And it was the city that killed them, that took them.

[00:49:52] And you get that sense a bit from Francis.

[00:49:55] I still think there's more to find out there.

[00:49:57] Yeah.

[00:49:58] But I just like how her disappointment here, you know, as Oz comes back.

[00:50:07] Yeah.

[00:50:08] That scene with Oz kind of cradling his mom is so utterly fantastic as he's trying to apologize to her, saying that he's going to fix it.

[00:50:19] You know, he's still got his big dreams, and she's like, you know, like your father.

[00:50:26] Yeah.

[00:50:26] And then she's just like, are you trying to kill me?

[00:50:29] Bringing me back here, reminding me who I lost.

[00:50:34] You know, because she's really like, get off me.

[00:50:38] Yeah.

[00:50:38] So it suggests something really traumatic here that in a sense is being masked, really, with the dementia.

[00:50:47] Well, absolutely.

[00:50:48] Yeah.

[00:50:48] Potentially.

[00:50:49] Yeah.

[00:50:50] Yeah, definitely.

[00:50:51] And I suppose that the plan in her mind, when she does have her faculties about her, the plan in her mind has been Oz will get her out of the squalor that she lived in almost, the apartment that she lived in.

[00:51:03] He did that.

[00:51:03] He moved her to the suburbs.

[00:51:05] And then the next stage after that, because we've already heard her complain about the house that she lives in in the suburbs.

[00:51:10] The next stage after that was that Oz was going to set her up for life in a beautiful apartment, a beautiful home.

[00:51:16] And Oz has never achieved that.

[00:51:17] And now he's, in fact, going backwards.

[00:51:19] So even when he achieves his goals, even when she hears everything from Victor about what he's done, she's still not getting out of there.

[00:51:26] So she again says, I think she said to him before, what kind of kid can't take care of their mom?

[00:51:31] This is the second time she said that to Oz.

[00:51:33] So she's holding that over him constantly.

[00:51:35] And it does feel like we're going to see that backstory at some point this season.

[00:51:38] If you're telling the story about Oz, you've got to see what happened to his brothers and what happened to his dad.

[00:51:43] Yeah.

[00:51:43] So I wonder if they either worked for the Moronis or the Falconis and died because of it.

[00:51:49] And that's what Oz's plan has always been, to get that revenge from the position that he was in.

[00:51:54] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:51:55] It feels a bit like that.

[00:51:57] But I think the other side of it then is even in his lowest moment then with him in exile, he's managed to salvage two of the mushroom sort of buckets that Nadia had exchanged.

[00:52:13] Yes, but he couldn't salvage his relationship with Eve though.

[00:52:16] Eve got really stressed out when he arrived there with Taj at the beginning, earlier on in the episode.

[00:52:22] And when he comes back to say he needs to go underground, he needs to go and lay low for a while.

[00:52:27] She needs to come with him.

[00:52:28] And Eve's like, I am out.

[00:52:30] I cannot go with you.

[00:52:32] And he absolutely freaks out.

[00:52:34] We haven't seen Oz this angry, I think, for most of the season.

[00:52:37] We've seen him get stressed out.

[00:52:39] But certainly with Eve, he's not lost his temper like this before.

[00:52:42] She does calm him down though.

[00:52:44] Yeah, she does.

[00:52:45] I'm sure he'll be back on top.

[00:52:46] And when you're back on top, come back to me basically.

[00:52:48] Yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be a complicated relationship, if any, there.

[00:52:56] Because I felt as though she salvaged it.

[00:52:59] I think whether Oz accepts that or whether he just uses that again at some later date.

[00:53:05] And it's also because she calms him down, the way she says it, like, you know, we had a deal.

[00:53:11] Me and my girls wouldn't get heat.

[00:53:14] Yeah.

[00:53:14] And that's what he's brought on her.

[00:53:16] So he calms down and I wonder if it's the realization that, well, I have brought heat here.

[00:53:23] He has, absolutely.

[00:53:24] You know, onto her and to her apartment, both with Sophia but also with the fact of bringing Maroney's son to the house.

[00:53:33] But Sophia's one probably is more scary for her because she's just seen on the news that she's killed all of her family in their home.

[00:53:39] And she was in the room with Eve and the girls selling the drugs.

[00:53:42] So that's a direct connection to find out where Oz is.

[00:53:45] If Sophia's looking for him, she's going to be coming back to the house.

[00:53:48] And yes, Taj was there.

[00:53:50] But Maroney probably wouldn't know that Taj was there.

[00:53:52] No.

[00:53:53] But she's angry about being involved in it overall and him using her place as kind of a hideout.

[00:53:58] So that's probably where it goes.

[00:54:00] But yeah, you're right.

[00:54:01] She does come down and get him out of the house.

[00:54:04] But he probably does realize how bad he's done her.

[00:54:08] Of course.

[00:54:09] So whether he salvaged things with Eve is still to be seen or whether she, in fact, survives Oz at all.

[00:54:17] I have a feeling that's stop number one for the Maroney's son.

[00:54:20] I would say so.

[00:54:21] The Gantt family next week.

[00:54:21] But he does manage to salvage two buckets of mushrooms.

[00:54:27] And I like the fact that the box of memories that Frances has brought with her to Crown Point.

[00:54:35] I love the fact that she arrives in Crown Point with a bejeweled lamp, bedside lamp that she's holding.

[00:54:42] And like it just looks so sort of tacky.

[00:54:46] But I just love the fact that that's what she's holding on to.

[00:54:49] Of course.

[00:54:49] As kind of you have Victor trying to sort of usher her into the sort of abandoned apartment so that he's not spotted by Squid.

[00:55:02] Yes.

[00:55:03] But he is spotted by Squid.

[00:55:04] And whilst that's to be played out, like it's kind of left in this episode, Squid does see him going into the building.

[00:55:14] And just a reminder, Squid is the cousin of the kid who was murdered by Sophia, who was out with Victor trying to steal the hope caps off Oz's Maserati.

[00:55:25] Yeah.

[00:55:26] But also he was on the rooftop then out of the fireworks, what they thought was going to be the fireworks, but turned out to be the flood into Crown Point.

[00:55:33] So he knows Vic very well.

[00:55:35] Vic doesn't get on with him.

[00:55:36] And he was called a drug dealer as well.

[00:55:38] So which family is he connected to?

[00:55:40] Does he have a connection?

[00:55:42] Has that connection gotten closer since the Crown Point flooding a couple of weeks beforehand?

[00:55:48] So he seems to have his own gang that he's sending into all the houses of Crown Point, stealing all the stuff inside.

[00:55:54] And he definitely sees Victor going into the house with Francis.

[00:55:58] So will this be the way that they find Oz and hit where his mom is?

[00:56:02] Well, that's it.

[00:56:03] It depends how this plays out.

[00:56:04] It depends how they kind of what direction they take it, because it could equally be that Oz manipulates Squid and I guess an aquatic animal.

[00:56:17] So maybe that's where the, you know, it's the penguin and the squid.

[00:56:21] Maybe.

[00:56:21] But just because she has killed his cousin.

[00:56:25] And you can see in some respects, yeah, he doesn't necessarily get on with Victor, but it wasn't so much that they were fighting.

[00:56:34] It was more that because Victor got a lot of hassle from his dad because it was his dad who didn't like squid.

[00:56:40] It was about that it felt to me.

[00:56:43] And I feel as though squid is looking at Victor along the lines of, oh, there's Victor.

[00:56:49] He might know where my cousin is.

[00:56:51] Well, maybe, yeah.

[00:56:52] Yeah, maybe it's that.

[00:56:53] Whereas he doesn't.

[00:56:55] But it was just when Victor was talking with his girlfriend and they were on the rooftop.

[00:56:57] He says to her, I didn't even know he was going to be here.

[00:57:00] I can't believe he's here.

[00:57:01] He'd lied to his father saying he definitely wouldn't be there.

[00:57:03] He's hardly ever around.

[00:57:04] And then he turns out to be there and he apologizes to his girlfriend on the roof.

[00:57:09] So I don't think they're firm friends, but I think that I think he knows how to play squid.

[00:57:17] But I think the good thing here is that's something that, you know, hopefully we'll see in the next few episodes as to how that plays out.

[00:57:24] Because with salvaging the two plants and having a spark of inspiration from the memory box that has been brought over, he goes to all these underground passageways from the old trolley lines that are beneath Gotham in order to use that humid atmosphere in order to grow the shrooms and for it to be his base of operation again.

[00:57:54] I absolutely adored this outcome because it just reminded me of just how you can freshen up the character's journey of the penguin.

[00:58:08] This idea that there'd be, it kind of freshen up what was done in Batman Returns.

[00:58:15] This idea of being in the sewers and underground Gotham.

[00:58:20] And you've seen that previously in comics with the penguin.

[00:58:24] But this is about still being underground in Gotham.

[00:58:28] But it's on the trolley line.

[00:58:30] It's got the water works as well, you see.

[00:58:34] And I just love this.

[00:58:36] This means that Oz can move about Gotham undetected using the tunnels.

[00:58:43] And he's also in a relatively unexpected location.

[00:58:48] So I thought this was really, really good.

[00:58:51] And I liked how both Oz and Victor sort of respond to one another as, you know, Oz says, it's warm and moist here, which is good for what?

[00:59:01] And, you know, Victor answers with mushrooms.

[00:59:04] And there's just this kind of like, almost gleeful, like laughter and realizing that they've got this new base of operation.

[00:59:15] Absolutely.

[00:59:15] It's cool.

[00:59:16] Just finding the supervillains hideout.

[00:59:18] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:59:19] I think one of the cool things about being a Batman fan and Batman universe fan now and having watched Gotham and having watched the Nolan movies and the Tim Burton movies, you know, we've lived long enough now to have three or four massive reinventions of this world.

[00:59:36] You know, of this, of how you make it more grounded, more realistic.

[00:59:40] When the Christopher Nolan movies came out, they were going, this is going to be much more grounded and realistic than Tim Burton's one.

[00:59:44] And when Tim Burton's one was coming out, this is going to be much more grounded and realistic than the 60s Batman that you all remember.

[00:59:50] And here we are 10 years later on from Gotham, which was the reimagining of a grounded Gotham around the GCPDs as the center of it.

[00:59:58] And here we are reimagining once again, the Batman universe, like Matt Reeves reimagined a young Batman when they're reimagining the villains and how they find their villain hangouts, which we've never really gotten in any of the other ones.

[01:00:12] People just moved into mansions.

[01:00:14] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:00:15] We've never really gotten one of our supervillains getting their base of operations in a realistic world.

[01:00:22] And this makes total sense here.

[01:00:24] And for a realistic reason, which is I need to grow a crop of mushroom.

[01:00:28] This is warm and moist.

[01:00:29] It's also, for the time being, I'm hidden.

[01:00:32] You know, like he, when he arrives in Crown Point, is, you know, again, he's saying to Victor, you know, you did good, kid.

[01:00:40] It was a smart thing to do.

[01:00:43] Bring in a hair.

[01:00:44] No one will expect that.

[01:00:45] So again, it's like, you know, it's a good outcome for Victor.

[01:00:50] So yeah, absolutely love this.

[01:00:52] That whilst yes, in a sense, he's in exile.

[01:00:57] I think he's got a good springboard.

[01:00:59] Definitely.

[01:01:00] Definitely.

[01:01:00] And what a great use of music.

[01:01:02] Finding that, finding the base of operations are using the cure of forest, the instrumental part of one of my favorite cure songs.

[01:01:09] It's just got that real good tension to it and a real, a real good darkness to the song itself.

[01:01:14] So, and interesting, it's called the forest and they're going to be growing mushrooms there.

[01:01:17] So, and so obviously intended as well.

[01:01:20] Any other notes, any other points about the episode you want to talk about, Sean, that we haven't mentioned at all?

[01:01:24] The only note I've got is that Isabella was Johnny's cousin.

[01:01:29] Don't know if we said that.

[01:01:30] Don't think so.

[01:01:30] We said he was related, but he was her cousin.

[01:01:34] No, we didn't mention that.

[01:01:35] And he says he's the one that introduced Carmine Falcone to her.

[01:01:39] So almost saying this is entirely my fault.

[01:01:42] If I hadn't introduced the two of them together, they wouldn't have fallen in love and she wouldn't have died at his hand.

[01:01:46] So that's why he's trying to say to Sophia that he's the right person to help Horat.

[01:01:50] I think in Sophia's head, it almost guarantees she's going to kill her by her own hand because she's kind of going, oh, hang on a second.

[01:01:58] So you're actually responsible for everything then, Uncle Johnny.

[01:02:01] I hate you even more now.

[01:02:03] So, yeah, good point to mention that as well.

[01:02:06] I just want to mention how terrible security guard Victor is.

[01:02:09] He's supposed to be taking care of the boss's mother, the only most trusted person for that.

[01:02:15] And Oz walks into the apartment and Oz, I would say, makes quite a lot of noise with his leg the way it is and walking through in the darkness.

[01:02:24] Oh, yeah.

[01:02:25] No movement from Victor at all.

[01:02:26] He doesn't wake up at all.

[01:02:28] He's very apologetic when he does wake up, of course.

[01:02:30] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:02:31] But, yeah, not a very good security guard.

[01:02:33] Yeah.

[01:02:34] John, overall, how would you rate this episode of The Penguin, episode five, Homecoming?

[01:02:39] I love this again.

[01:02:41] This is really an excellent series for me.

[01:02:45] I'd give this five subterranean shrooms out of five.

[01:02:50] I absolutely loved the new base of operations.

[01:02:53] I love the fact, you know, forced out into the open, Oz makes a play and to some extent is mildly successful, at least in taking out one half of the Moroni crime syndicate.

[01:03:06] Unfortunately, his assassination attempt in Blackgate doesn't work out and the Moronis have failed to deal with Sophia previously.

[01:03:17] But effectively, again, you know, yes, it doesn't play out for him.

[01:03:21] He has to make the flight.

[01:03:22] He has to go into exile.

[01:03:26] But he's down the majority of the Falcone crime syndicate, and at least their leadership.

[01:03:34] Yes, there are others that are around.

[01:03:38] But it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

[01:03:42] And half of the Moroni head honchos are gone, effectively, with Nadia and Taj.

[01:03:51] So there's positives there for all.

[01:03:53] There could be.

[01:03:54] I feel like he's just refined the two families to their most lethal.

[01:03:59] He's got Sal who's willing to kill him in revenge for the death of his wife and child.

[01:04:03] And he's got Sophia that's willing to kill him for being in Arkham for 10 years.

[01:04:07] And nobody else around to hold them back or calm them down or talk about business to them.

[01:04:11] Maybe we won't be making money if there's a big battle going on the streets.

[01:04:14] The two of them are now out for blood against Oz.

[01:04:16] It just feels like the refined version of evil of both of the families.

[01:04:22] I love it.

[01:04:23] It's brilliant.

[01:04:23] Definitely.

[01:04:24] But for me, I think this whole episode is just...

[01:04:28] There's three scenes for me that I absolutely think are amazing.

[01:04:35] In fact, four.

[01:04:36] I think the kidnapping of Taj, that play.

[01:04:38] I just think how that shot really, really well done.

[01:04:42] I love Sophia announcing that this is a new family.

[01:04:46] This is the Gigante cartel, not the Falcone.

[01:04:50] And taking out Johnny Vitti.

[01:04:53] Really good.

[01:04:54] I love Sophia and Salvatore in the log cabin.

[01:05:02] Such a great scene.

[01:05:03] And Oz and his mom, Frances.

[01:05:07] Yeah.

[01:05:08] And I think coupled to that, the sort of the ending, it's just played so well.

[01:05:14] I just thought this was a great episode.

[01:05:16] So five subterranean shrooms out of five for me.

[01:05:21] Fantastic.

[01:05:21] Yeah.

[01:05:22] Really enjoyed it as well.

[01:05:23] I think we need to have a drink, John.

[01:05:25] Let's head on down to the Iceberg Lounge and see if it's open this time.

[01:05:28] Yes.

[01:05:29] Fellow Gothamites, fellow quizzers, welcome to the Iceberg Lounge and welcome to the fifth

[01:05:36] question in our Iceberg Lounge quiz for this series of Penguin.

[01:05:43] Question five.

[01:05:45] What are the two line numbers shown on the trolley carriages in the station that Oz and Victor

[01:05:52] make as their base of operations at Crown Point?

[01:05:55] Yes.

[01:05:56] Very good.

[01:05:57] Line numbers.

[01:05:58] Okay.

[01:05:59] Yes.

[01:05:59] Cool.

[01:05:59] Do you want to get the question one more time?

[01:06:01] Yeah.

[01:06:01] What are the two line numbers shown on the trolley carriages in the station that Oz and Victor

[01:06:08] make as their base of operations at Crown Point?

[01:06:11] They're the big numbers you'd get on the side of the train carriages, effectively, or

[01:06:17] the trolley carriages.

[01:06:17] The trolley carriages.

[01:06:18] Excellent stuff.

[01:06:19] That's great.

[01:06:20] That's our fifth question of eight.

[01:06:21] At the end of the series, email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with your answers

[01:06:27] to all eight questions you can be given the chance of getting your hands on some Penguin

[01:06:30] goodies.

[01:06:32] Good luck, fellow quizzers and Gothamites.

[01:06:35] Absolutely.

[01:06:36] Excellent.

[01:06:36] We do have a little bit of feedback in from Coffee and Vodka on this episode.

[01:06:41] He says, greetings, fellow battle prepping defenders.

[01:06:45] Everyone's back for the gathering and culling, and for once, Victor wasn't one of those with

[01:06:49] a gun to his head.

[01:06:50] Sophia's doing everything right, including waiting to waste Johnny until he gathered the

[01:06:53] forces and put her at the head of the table.

[01:06:56] We finally got an uncaged, ifshived, Sal, and Oz got his full name.

[01:07:00] Oz's poor mother.

[01:07:01] It looks like she had to go home again.

[01:07:03] You really don't want to push anyone in the series too far.

[01:07:06] The look of Pengi in the family firelight was ironically chilling.

[01:07:09] Looking forward to the battle royale after all this priming so far.

[01:07:13] So HBO, four little giants, mother huggers, barbecued moronies with mushrooms, and underground

[01:07:19] railroads out of five.

[01:07:21] Peace and take care, Coffee and Vodka.

[01:07:23] Excellent stuff, Coffee and Vodka.

[01:07:25] I know exactly the scene you're talking about there of the Penguin in the family firelight.

[01:07:32] Yeah, it really did look chilling.

[01:07:35] And looked as chilling as Feathers McGraw as well.

[01:07:39] A little more chilling than Feathers McGraw.

[01:07:41] No, it was really well captured.

[01:07:43] Yeah, that's the thing.

[01:07:44] Some scenes, some shots, just so well done in this show.

[01:07:49] Really, really classy.

[01:07:51] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:07:52] Absolutely.

[01:07:53] So thanks so much, Coffee and Vodka.

[01:07:55] Absolutely.

[01:07:55] Thanks, Coffee and Vodka.

[01:07:56] For the feedback.

[01:07:57] And one final announcement, fellow Gothamites, for this episode.

[01:08:02] It is my co-host's birthday today.

[01:08:06] He is a bajillion years old.

[01:08:09] Happy birthday, Derek.

[01:08:11] Thank you very much, John.

[01:08:12] Yeah, thanks very much.

[01:08:13] I feel about a billion years old at the moment, but I've had a good weekend, at least, before

[01:08:17] we recorded the podcast.

[01:08:19] But yes, thank you very much.

[01:08:20] Another happy birthday.

[01:08:21] Absolutely.

[01:08:22] Another orbit around the sun.

[01:08:24] Another orbit around the sun.

[01:08:25] Another cake day.

[01:08:26] Yeah, exactly.

[01:08:27] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:08:28] Yeah, we all have them every year, hopefully.

[01:08:29] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:08:30] So I'm really enjoying it, to be honest.

[01:08:33] So thank you very much, and thanks, everybody, for your messages.

[01:08:35] We will be back next week for the next episode of The Penguin Gold Summit, which will be out

[01:08:40] on HBO, Net TV, and Sky Atlantic on Sunday evening into Monday morning.

[01:08:44] Yes.

[01:08:44] Thank you for subscribing to the podcast, fellow Gothamites.

[01:08:48] Of course, as well, you can support us over on Patreon and buymeacoffee.com.

[01:08:53] Just search TV Podcast Industries.

[01:08:55] But importantly, you can also support the podcast by sharing it with family, friends, and Waddley

[01:09:03] Penguin.

[01:09:03] Mm-hmm.

[01:09:04] Because, of course, sharing the podcast is sharing the love.

[01:09:09] Yes.

[01:09:09] Excellent stuff.

[01:09:10] Thanks so much for joining us.

[01:09:11] Start to again next time.

[01:09:12] Yeah.

[01:09:12] Thanks for joining us, fellow Gothamites.

[01:09:14] As always, a pleasure chatting all things Pengi with you.

[01:09:19] But in the meantime, keep watching, keep listening, and keep waddling.

[01:09:24] Bye.

[01:09:25] Bye.