The Penguin Episode 6 Review

[00:00:00] This is the Gotham Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're talking about The Penguin Episode 6, Gold Summit.

[00:00:08] Look around. Look at what we got, kid. The good people at Crown Point, hard at work, right, protecting us. We got their loyalty. We got their love. You know why? Because we pay them.

[00:00:24] You know how meaningful that is, Vic? To be the guy in the neighborhood who takes care of people? They're gonna tell stories about us one day, kid.

[00:00:36] You think?

[00:00:37] Know it. Victor Aguilar. Has woke up. Yeah. Our names are gonna live forever.

[00:01:13] Welcome back, fellow Gothamites, to Gotham. Yes, to The Gotham Podcast, where we are talking about The Penguin.

[00:01:20] Episode 6, Gold Summit. I am one of your waddling hosts, John.

[00:01:26] I'm your other host, Derek. Welcome back. A little bit later this week, because we had a bank holiday in Ireland after our birthday celebrations week.

[00:01:33] And so we took an extra day to recover from that.

[00:01:36] To recover, recover, recover.

[00:01:38] And watch all the rivals on Disney+.

[00:01:41] Yeah, that is true. Yes. In one big bang.

[00:01:44] It was. It was. But we do have an excellent episode of The Penguin to talk about this week again.

[00:01:49] We do, yeah. Real weaving and dealing. And some genuine worry, nervousness even, as to whether two of the characters will make it out alive.

[00:02:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:03] Yeah, that's a really unnerving kind of scene at the end.

[00:02:08] It certainly is.

[00:02:09] It kind of sent a shiver down my spine, really.

[00:02:13] Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:02:13] So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:02:15] Nice little surprise there at the end for us.

[00:02:17] Yeah, it really was.

[00:02:19] Yeah, another great episode of The Penguin that we're about to cover.

[00:02:24] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:25] Just before we do get into our spoiler-filled discussion, we will, of course, bring some feedback on Episode 5.

[00:02:31] But also a big thank you to those of you who have subscribed to us on the podcast already.

[00:02:37] If you are new to TV Podcast Industries and you want to subscribe, please head on over to tvpodcastindustries.com, where you can subscribe on any ornithological or gangster podcast player of your choice.

[00:02:53] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:53] As I said, we love feedback, so send your thoughts, theories, observations, and anything else to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or over on our Facebook group where we leave a spoiler post for each and every episode of The Penguin.

[00:03:11] Just head on over to facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash TV Podcast Industries.

[00:03:19] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:19] But let us get into our feedback on Episode 5.

[00:03:23] We just have one piece of Episode 5 feedback from Meryl Smith, who says,

[00:03:29] Oh, Ozzy, you've really done it this time.

[00:03:32] With all that plate spinning, you managed to screw up so badly and in such a way that you undid the war you started and possibly ended a feud that went on for years.

[00:03:42] It's quite impressive.

[00:03:44] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:44] The Moronis and the Falcons were like the Hatfields and the McCoys of the mob, and it seems like that feud had come to an end.

[00:03:52] Also, I see this as the show doing a little bit of debris clearing as they move away from the mob element to the next stage, the super criminal or super villain, if you will.

[00:04:04] Sophia is really moving up in the criminal empire world as her meteoric rise has been intriguing to watch, which has never been the most fascinating journey of a dark hero.

[00:04:15] So, Kristen Milioti continues to be one of the biggest powerhouse of the show.

[00:04:21] And now that she's going to be showing scenes with Clancy Brown, I can see a lot more acting work in the next couple of episodes.

[00:04:28] Never forget, this show is one part dialogue, another is action and set pieces, and the third part, the locations, with an additional story that is so compelling that it locks the viewer in and never lets them go.

[00:04:42] Also, can we just pour one out for our old pal Vitti?

[00:04:47] He lasted a lot longer than anyone thought that he would.

[00:04:50] Shout out to Michael Kelly for bringing this character to life before my very eyes.

[00:04:55] I love smarmy characters, and he played his role to perfection.

[00:05:00] Now, this penguin is starting to resemble the Gotham one, killing a mother and a child via fire.

[00:05:06] That is so Gotham.

[00:05:08] Penguin ends up in a sewer.

[00:05:10] Now he's starting to resemble another penguin in the Rolodex.

[00:05:14] Don't know if you guys read the Batman prequel book, but the location at the end of the episode reminded me of the one in there.

[00:05:22] Also, a certain set from Person of Interest that I love a lot.

[00:05:26] He's got a lair now.

[00:05:28] He's legit.

[00:05:30] And finally, Dr. Julian Rush.

[00:05:32] What is it with this actor and playing a character that is aligned with a female crime boss?

[00:05:38] Although he's more a simp here than he was in Luke Cage.

[00:05:41] As someone who knows about the Giganti name in the comics, I love it's incorporated here as a way to honor her mother.

[00:05:50] It goes without saying, but I'm team Sophia, even if I suspect that she may not win in the end.

[00:05:57] Three and a half dead Vickies surrounded by literal blood money, penguins in a sewer, and cold baths of torture out of five.

[00:06:07] Thanks so much, Meryl, for the feedback.

[00:06:11] Yeah, no, I am so glad you're loving this.

[00:06:14] And yeah, it is superb.

[00:06:16] I think I should say Christine Miliotti is really, really excellent here.

[00:06:21] And with Clancy Brown, superb.

[00:06:24] We get some more of that in episode six.

[00:06:26] It's great to see the two of these sort of rolling off one another.

[00:06:33] I think I'm still, at this moment, Team Oz, I guess, of all of them, just because he represents the smaller crime gang.

[00:06:41] But nonetheless, we know definitely what he becomes.

[00:06:45] So I guess it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[00:06:51] And you're right.

[00:06:52] VT stayed around a lot longer than I thought he was going to.

[00:06:55] In episode five, let alone for the series, I'm surprised she didn't knock him off sooner.

[00:07:02] Yeah.

[00:07:02] Yeah, yeah.

[00:07:03] Such a good way to draw it out.

[00:07:05] You're like thinking, is she going to keep him around?

[00:07:08] You know?

[00:07:08] Yeah.

[00:07:08] Does she see like some objective positive about him that can override anything that he's said or done to her in the past?

[00:07:18] Well, exactly.

[00:07:19] I know.

[00:07:19] She is just like going to take him out.

[00:07:22] Or did he get through to her with this, I couldn't save your mom, maybe I can help you kind of thing, you know?

[00:07:27] Yeah.

[00:07:27] So maybe it was that.

[00:07:29] Personally, I'm not Team Oz or Team Sophia.

[00:07:33] I am Team Batman.

[00:07:35] But I'm really interested in how they're telling this story about the villain in Gotham.

[00:07:38] Because that makes it so much more interesting.

[00:07:40] I can't wait for Batman to swoop in and take out the Penguin at some point in the future.

[00:07:45] I'm Team Victor, actually.

[00:07:46] Team Victor.

[00:07:47] Yeah, at the moment.

[00:07:49] Okay, he might turn into a dreadful supervillain.

[00:07:51] Super villain.

[00:07:52] Despite knowing what I know from the end of episode six and the precarious situation that he may be in there, I am Team Victor.

[00:08:01] Right.

[00:08:02] To be honest.

[00:08:03] Yeah.

[00:08:03] See a kid sort of make his way up in the world, even though it is probably on the wrong side of the tracks and with the wrong mentor.

[00:08:10] And yeah, he's probably not in a great place.

[00:08:13] But you know what I mean?

[00:08:14] I'd like to see Victor get out of this alive without a doubt.

[00:08:17] Yes.

[00:08:17] I don't want to see him as a leader of a crime gang by the end of the series.

[00:08:20] But overall, I'm really loving the story, really loving the tale they're telling.

[00:08:24] And I'm glad you're enjoying it as well, Meryl.

[00:08:26] Yeah, some great feedback there.

[00:08:28] I never read the Batman prequel book, the prequel to the movie.

[00:08:30] The only comic I read was the one that was written by Paul Dano from the perspective of the Riddler.

[00:08:36] It was a really interesting comic.

[00:08:38] It was a series of five issues that Paul Dano wrote, kind of from his notes on how he played the Riddler in the Batman movie.

[00:08:44] And he worked very hard on creating the full tale of how the Riddler would have gotten himself to that situation.

[00:08:51] So it's a good read.

[00:08:53] But I wonder, should I give the Batman prequel book a look?

[00:08:56] I'm sure that would be interesting to check out.

[00:08:58] Yeah, I think they're always worth a check out, to be honest.

[00:09:02] And I think, as Meryl says, you know, you can just add something nicely to it.

[00:09:09] Exactly.

[00:09:09] I think the other thing, Meryl is yet totally down with the Penguin having his lair now.

[00:09:16] And in particular that it's subterranean.

[00:09:19] I think that's really, really good.

[00:09:21] And for you, it reminds you of a certain set from Person of Interest.

[00:09:24] It also reminds me of a certain set from X-Files.

[00:09:27] So I kind of quite like that.

[00:09:29] Interesting, interesting.

[00:09:30] Good stuff.

[00:09:31] I'm sure we're going to be seeing a lot more of that as we see in Episode 6.

[00:09:35] It's quite heavily featured.

[00:09:36] Great stuff.

[00:09:37] Thanks, Meryl.

[00:09:38] Let's get on to our chat about Episode 6, John.

[00:09:40] Yes, with our spoiler-filled discussion.

[00:09:43] Derek, what are some of the episode details?

[00:09:47] Well, the show is based on characters created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane for Detective Comics,

[00:09:51] spinning out of Matt Reeves, The Batman, and with showrunner Lauren LeFrancq.

[00:09:55] This episode was written by Nick Towne.

[00:09:57] He previously wrote episodes of Preacher and Deadwood, two really, really good shows.

[00:10:01] And directed this time by Kevin Bray, who's directed loads of great TV over the years,

[00:10:06] including two episodes of Succession.

[00:10:08] And directed an episode of one of your favorite shows, John Snowfall.

[00:10:12] That's fantastic.

[00:10:13] Yeah.

[00:10:14] Absolutely love Snowfall.

[00:10:15] That's a good show.

[00:10:15] Came to an end this year.

[00:10:18] That's right.

[00:10:19] Season 6 released towards the start of the year on Walt Disney+.

[00:10:24] Over here, yeah.

[00:10:25] So I've just taken my time watching it.

[00:10:27] But I absolutely loved Snowfall.

[00:10:32] It had hints and chimes of The Wire, or one of the seasons of The Wire, which I really liked, to be honest.

[00:10:40] And also, you can kind of see the echoes in a show like Penguin.

[00:10:45] You know, there is that dark underbelly of a city like Gotham, and you saw a lot of that in Snowfall,

[00:10:50] with the realistic story of the progression of the ropes through LA.

[00:10:54] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:10:55] Yeah.

[00:10:56] So a great director on board to join a really good writer and a really good show.

[00:11:00] Also, I love Succession as well.

[00:11:01] Absolutely.

[00:11:02] Absolutely.

[00:11:02] John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for The Penguin, Episode 6, Gold Summers?

[00:11:08] Sure.

[00:11:11] It's winter in Gotham, and in the weeks since he's set up his underground base under the city,

[00:11:16] Oswald Cobb has been growing his empire significantly.

[00:11:19] He employed most of Crown Point's residents to reproduce and distribute the drug bliss throughout the city

[00:11:26] to as many gangs as will take it.

[00:11:28] Sophia Giganti and Salmoroni are irritated by the gang's dealings with Oz.

[00:11:34] They string up three members of the Sullivan gang as a warning to the rest to stop dealing with him.

[00:11:42] Oz makes a decision to give Bliss away for free for one night only to anyone who wants it.

[00:11:47] This seeds the drug into all the boroughs of Gotham.

[00:11:51] He sets a meeting with the leaders of the other gangs in the city, calling it the Gold Summit.

[00:11:56] At the meeting, Oz convinces the gangs to work together against the Gigantes, Moronis, and the upper city elites.

[00:12:05] Together, they will take back Gotham.

[00:12:08] Meanwhile, back in Crown Point, Victor is confronted by Squid, an acquaintance and drug dealer,

[00:12:14] who asks Victor to let him join the operation.

[00:12:17] But given their past, Victor is reluctant to bring him in.

[00:12:21] He tries to pay off Squid, but when he threatens to expose Oz's operation, Victor kills him and flees the scene.

[00:12:29] Also, Oz learns that the Gotham City Council have been redirecting power away from Crown Point to richer neighbourhoods.

[00:12:37] So he threatens a corrupt councilman to return the power back to Crown Point,

[00:12:41] so his mother Frances can feel more comfortable.

[00:12:44] But Frances's condition deteriorates further, and she forces Oz to promise to kill her if she becomes severely ill.

[00:12:53] Elsewhere, as Sophia and Sal try to uncover someone close to Oz, Sophia discovers Eve.

[00:12:59] Visiting the Gotham Red Light District, Sophia finds Eve initially threatening to kill her to get to Oz.

[00:13:06] But Eve gives up his location, after Sophia reveals Oz was aware that she was framed for the murders of Eve's girls by her father.

[00:13:16] As power is restored to Crown Point, Oz's flat buzzes into life with music and lights.

[00:13:22] Frances takes advantage of it, and both her and Victor dance to the music,

[00:13:27] unaware that Sophia Giganti is looking on from the doorway with a crowbar in hand.

[00:13:33] Ooh, yeah, tough old ending, that one, definitely.

[00:13:35] Oh, big time.

[00:13:37] I mean, I know, you know, you can argue, well, they're drug dealers, but she's an old lady,

[00:13:44] and, you know, Victor's a young guy, and Sophia has intent about her.

[00:13:50] You can really see that in her eyes, but what a sort of menacing, unnerving, and precarious sort of ending,

[00:13:58] certainly for Victor and Oz's mother.

[00:14:02] Well, this episode, let's see what happens next episode, yeah.

[00:14:05] Well, exactly.

[00:14:06] But she knows where they are, even if she doesn't do anything about it immediately.

[00:14:10] Yeah, she's right there in the room, though, yeah.

[00:14:13] But let us dive into the case files for episode six of The Penguin.

[00:14:21] Let's start off with our case note number one, Oz's new operation.

[00:14:27] Yeah, this is quite a huge.

[00:14:29] Like, last week we saw him discovering the underground base and kind of indicating to Victor,

[00:14:34] wouldn't this be a great place to grow at the mushrooms?

[00:14:36] He only arrived with two buckets.

[00:14:38] It was just himself and Victor, and here we are.

[00:14:40] A couple of months later, I think.

[00:14:41] It's now gone into winter.

[00:14:43] We kind of get references to that throughout the episode, how cold everybody is in their apartments

[00:14:46] as the power is not being fed through to them.

[00:14:48] We see the snow-covered streets of Gotham at times, which is very cool.

[00:14:52] Some great shots there.

[00:14:53] But it's now turned into a full-blown operation from just the two plants.

[00:14:58] We now have hundreds of plants, and they're now supplying Bliss all across the city.

[00:15:03] He seems to have every single person in Crown Point that's living in the area working for him now,

[00:15:09] or pretending they're working in construction, but working for Oz and delivering the drugs around the city

[00:15:15] to every gang that will take them by the same things.

[00:15:17] Well, definitely.

[00:15:19] I love this.

[00:15:20] I like the opening with the bike coming through the tunnels, just showing that kind of networking underground throughout Gotham.

[00:15:29] I love the fact that it's all massively so much bigger than before, yet you hear Oswald talking about keeping their mouths shut,

[00:15:40] and you see that later with Sophia and Sal getting increasingly frustrated.

[00:15:45] I mean, you hear it again also from Victor saying he was almost caught, but he managed to lose them before he went underground.

[00:15:53] So you have this kind of cat and mouse element.

[00:15:56] But despite all of that, so there is a threat over this operation.

[00:16:02] Yeah.

[00:16:02] But the new operation that sort of develops, as you say, it has gone from strength to strength,

[00:16:10] as they've managed to secretly distribute the drug underground to all these other gangs.

[00:16:17] I like how it opens up with Oz saying, who's got the power?

[00:16:22] That's what the streets are asking.

[00:16:24] Down here, we know.

[00:16:26] You know, it's working.

[00:16:28] He's keeping it hidden.

[00:16:30] But it's involving these different gangs and bringing them in on the distribution of bliss and the selling of it.

[00:16:40] So we have, you know, I think we certainly know of the Sullivans and the Odessas and all this kind of different gangs.

[00:16:49] And smaller, though, than the Moronies and the Falcons ever were.

[00:16:55] Exactly.

[00:16:55] Exactly.

[00:16:56] They're all the regular gangs that were running the drugs for the Moronies and Falconies.

[00:17:00] But they have their own operations that Moronies and Falconies are effectively taking money from all the time to protect them almost.

[00:17:09] So interestingly, though, at the start here, Oz is saying that each of the gangs can't find out that they're dealing with the other gangs either.

[00:17:17] So the distribution network is such that they are distributing the drug, but they're not all saying it's the money's going back to Oz.

[00:17:23] Because if the gangs found out about that, he's worried that they would start a turf war at the beginning.

[00:17:29] So I think that was quite interesting.

[00:17:30] Also loved in his opening monologue the line where he says, who's got the real power?

[00:17:36] Sophia doesn't even like her own name.

[00:17:38] And the Moronies family is ash, which is just the harshest way to describe what happened in last week's episode.

[00:17:45] But just an interesting one there.

[00:17:48] But they also are tunneling out the rest of the subway system, the underground trolley system that Oz was taking over.

[00:17:56] Because you hear him mention that they are going to make able to make their way to another one of the gangs because they've just freed up another tunnel.

[00:18:01] And so he's recreating this structure underneath the city.

[00:18:05] I just think that's a really interesting idea because we are moving to a position where, as Meryl even said in her feedback,

[00:18:10] and as we said in our podcast last week, the criminal overlords of Gotham are going to be more difficult to find than walking up to the biggest mansion in town and going,

[00:18:19] tell me where you got your drug money.

[00:18:21] You know, that's what's coming in the future.

[00:18:23] So Oswald building this whole network of tunnels underground and that being his base is a really interesting development for the future of where everybody else

[00:18:32] and all the other supervillains are going to be hiding out in different places across Gotham, which we really like to.

[00:18:39] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:18:40] But I mean, it is the kind of beauty of the operation that like the dichotomy of it is that on the one hand,

[00:18:48] he has to get the product out there, market it and expose it, give it that sort of push.

[00:18:56] But at the same time, he's got to remain hidden.

[00:19:00] Yeah.

[00:19:00] And it's just really, really good.

[00:19:02] I love that.

[00:19:03] And I think we can go on to our case note number two, because the flip side of this equation in terms of why he needs to stay hidden,

[00:19:12] certainly because of the smaller gangs, but ultimately because Sophia and Sal do take steps.

[00:19:20] Yes, they do.

[00:19:20] You know?

[00:19:20] Yeah.

[00:19:21] And they become increasingly frustrated that they cannot pin him down.

[00:19:25] I do really like that Sophia just thinks, well, he likes the limelight.

[00:19:29] He'll come out eventually.

[00:19:31] But Sal still is grieving, has that bereavement.

[00:19:35] You know, he's really, you see him being really angry with his frustration because of the need to kind of wrap his hands around Oz's throat.

[00:19:48] Well, exactly.

[00:19:48] Yeah.

[00:19:49] And Sophia is kind of thinking it's a matter of time.

[00:19:53] But I love that, you know, this is why, despite the growth of Oz's bliss operation, his further ambition is being thwarted by the two big names in the criminal world,

[00:20:10] which is the Gigantes and the Moronis that have merged with him being their central focus as their enemy.

[00:20:21] Yeah.

[00:20:21] So I really like that.

[00:20:23] It's just the way we see Sophia and Sal Moroni discussing it over dinner and very informally in the kitchen at the former Falcone mansion.

[00:20:34] And I just like the fact that they just say, well, let's just get the runners, you know, the corner boys.

[00:20:43] And so they do and string up three of them with their little pinky cut off as a warning not to buy and sell bliss from Oz.

[00:20:57] Not to work with Oz at all.

[00:20:59] Yeah.

[00:20:59] I love that Sal Moroni is just calling him a weed, you know, that this is the city of Gotham is their garden.

[00:21:05] He's destroying it basically and can't be taken out, can't be easily found.

[00:21:10] So they have to go for a different tactic and attack some members of the gang that they know are dealing with Oz.

[00:21:17] Another interesting part of the discussion that was there is that almost naively we hear Sophia going, you know, yeah, okay.

[00:21:25] Oz has taken over some of the small businesses and dealt with some of the gangs,

[00:21:28] but he can't get out of the triads because the triads made a deal with me, not him, which calls back to the episode where the deal was made.

[00:21:36] And Sophia was there saying they're not here to talk to my driver.

[00:21:39] They're here to talk to Sophia Falcone back then, you know.

[00:21:43] And Sal Moroni is kind of schooling her going, they didn't make a deal with you.

[00:21:47] They made a deal with the person who's selling bliss and that's now Oz.

[00:21:51] So if you're not selling it and they have the money to buy it and the need to distribute drugs, you're out of the equation.

[00:21:56] Yeah, and that's why then she ratchets it up to say, you know, we need to make it crystal clear that playing with Oz comes at a cost

[00:22:07] and so takes down the street runners and the corner boys.

[00:22:11] I do like that we have Oz saying a bit later, sort of derogatory calling them Mork and Mindy.

[00:22:21] And they're beginning to flex their muscles, you know, but his little pet name for the tag team is Mork and Mindy,

[00:22:31] which I thought was quite nice, a nice little reference as well.

[00:22:34] But yeah, here we have them effectively taking steps.

[00:22:40] The other thing I liked about this initial bit as well was with them eating,

[00:22:45] it almost felt like that kind of, you know, the breaking bread moment where it's, you know,

[00:22:51] so far they've made the deal, there's the handshake, but given these two families,

[00:22:58] however much she's now a gigante, she was a Falcone and they were at loggerheads.

[00:23:04] And it feels like it's just another moment of trust building between them by having this meal.

[00:23:10] And definitely required, given that when Sophia comes into the room, she kind of says to Sal,

[00:23:15] you know, a person under house arrest shouldn't be leaving their room, you know.

[00:23:18] So she had him give up his whole family, effectively the Mironi family,

[00:23:22] join up with a gigante family and then was locking him in a room in the Falcone mansion.

[00:23:26] You know, it's one step away from imprisonment really.

[00:23:29] So the fact that they do sit down, break bread, discuss, you know, and as you say,

[00:23:34] everything is reminding Sal Mironi of his family at the moment.

[00:23:37] He's doing a recipe that his wife taught him and he's talking about the extra ingredient

[00:23:41] that his son Taz would have added to it to make it even better.

[00:23:44] And then he just says this, I was learning all of these so I could pass it on as my legacy to my children.

[00:23:51] And then in that moment is the moment when he's kind of eating the food and

[00:23:55] reminding himself almost that he doesn't have that legacy anymore.

[00:23:58] He no longer has a wife and his son's dead as well.

[00:24:00] So he no longer has any of that and it's all Oz's fault.

[00:24:03] That's just the first step they take though, killing the three members of the Sullivan gang.

[00:24:07] The next step is actually going to Oz's place to try and find something that connects Oz and

[00:24:12] somebody that Oz might love so they can leverage them in the way that Oz leveraged the Mironi family.

[00:24:19] Well, yeah, and it comes in part because their whole strategy to pressure sort of the lower level,

[00:24:27] the corner boys, ends off with Oz taking a countermeasure because he can see the threat.

[00:24:34] You know, by going after the low runners doesn't put any of the leaders of the gangs in harm's way.

[00:24:41] They're too scared to go after this merged crime family now.

[00:24:47] And it means that it cuts off his supply effectively or limits it.

[00:24:54] And so he decides to give Bliss away to counter Sophia and Sal's attempt to strangle that distribution,

[00:25:02] which then means they have to counter again.

[00:25:07] And so it comes down to, and I guess it's not even so much a counter.

[00:25:11] It's something I think Sal, you know, Mironi absolutely wants.

[00:25:16] You can sense the need here for him to go looking into Oz's life to find a weakness that they can use.

[00:25:25] Basically someone that he cares about.

[00:25:27] And I like both of these two breaking and entering into Oz's apartment and going through, you know, his stuff.

[00:25:38] I mean, on the one hand, you have a nice little touchback to the fake fire coming on from Sophia.

[00:25:44] Where the music goes on at the same time.

[00:25:45] That's the tacky part.

[00:25:47] You see the anger.

[00:25:50] You know, you see how upset Sal Moroni is.

[00:25:54] You know, he takes everything from me and he has nothing in that he has nothing to care about.

[00:26:01] I can't take it back.

[00:26:03] I can't take back from him.

[00:26:06] And I just really enjoy this.

[00:26:09] I think Sophia gives him one of the golf clubs and says, you know, practice your swing.

[00:26:14] And he goes about smashing up Oz's apartment as she calmly goes into the bedroom.

[00:26:20] And ultimately does found a chink in the armor.

[00:26:24] Yeah, but she does say that this is Oz's superpower.

[00:26:27] He doesn't care about anybody.

[00:26:28] So you can't get to him that way.

[00:26:29] You know, that's Moroni is saying he wants absolute revenge on Oz.

[00:26:35] And straight away, you know, if he'd found anything, any connector, anything connected to Oz, anybody that Oz loved, they would be dead.

[00:26:42] That is his modus operandi.

[00:26:44] And he's telling you right there and then that that is something that he can't do that.

[00:26:48] What's next, you know, but it is Sophia that finds Eve, finds the photograph of her, a little note saying that last song was for you with some love hearts on it.

[00:26:57] She's got a drawer in Oz's apartment.

[00:26:59] So she knows this is the person she needs to find and goes off to the red light district to try and find Eve.

[00:27:04] I really like this just because the protection that's there for Eve on the streets from everybody around, from all the people that work in this area.

[00:27:13] It really reminded me of Sin City and the ladies town in Sin City, where this is an area that you can go into and you can get your kicks.

[00:27:23] You can pay for whatever you want.

[00:27:24] You're in the red light district, but all of them in there are watching you from the moment you arrive until the moment you leave to make sure you don't hurt anybody in town.

[00:27:31] And even when Roxy comes up and talks to Sophia and goes, oh, maybe I can help you out if you pay me enough.

[00:27:37] That was another little ruse from Eve to get a little bit of extra cash off Sophia because Eve just said to Roxy, it's time to bring her up.

[00:27:46] And they just got a little extra cash for us, which I really liked.

[00:27:49] I just thought that was a nice little touch as Sophia goes up for probably my favorite scene from the episode, Sophia confronting Eve.

[00:27:58] I thought this was just so wonderfully acted.

[00:28:00] And you're seeing two people who've gone through their lives completely mistreated, sidelined, underestimated.

[00:28:07] And, you know, in Eve's case, expected to be the arm candy for the new crime boss of Gotham that was Oz.

[00:28:14] And in Sophia's case, expected to be the one that takes the fall for her father's sins when she accused him of it and her entire family turning on her.

[00:28:21] So seeing the two of these really strong women having survived all of those ordeals, being put toe to toe against each other and getting out the other side of it as well is really interesting.

[00:28:33] Absolutely.

[00:28:34] I think you're right.

[00:28:35] This was superbly tense as well and revelatory.

[00:28:42] Like, you got the sense that Eve is loyal to a T with Oz.

[00:28:48] But the revelation that Sophia tells her that he knew that Sophia wasn't the hangman.

[00:28:55] Because I love how it comes to play back to the film again, that it was Eve's girls that were the women being murdered, you know, by Carmine Falcone.

[00:29:07] But she absolutely thinks it's Sophia on the basis of everything that's been reported, but also being close to Oz Cobb.

[00:29:17] Exactly.

[00:29:17] And so I love that the revelation has its impact to the point where she's still having to battle to think about whether she does or she doesn't.

[00:29:28] But Sophia is literally about to go out the door.

[00:29:31] And Eve tells Sophia not exactly where Oz is, but he's next to the zoo at Crown Point.

[00:29:41] Yeah.

[00:29:42] And that's what Sophia gets in return.

[00:29:47] Because if she'd killed Eve before, Sophia wasn't going to get anything there.

[00:29:52] That's right.

[00:29:52] And even if she'd gone in guns blazing, she wouldn't have gotten anything because she would have never had the opportunity to tell her hangman side of the story.

[00:30:02] Yes.

[00:30:02] And that is what I thought was so good.

[00:30:05] And what I do specifically like about it is that it does show a bit of restraint from Sophia.

[00:30:10] Some restraint that Oz didn't have back in episode one.

[00:30:12] You know, this is Sophia still, while she may be a gigante and may be coming up as a new gang leader in the city, she's still playing by some of those old rules.

[00:30:20] And she still wants some information out of this.

[00:30:23] She could have gone in guns blazing because in her mind, the justification for killing Eve is not just because she's Oz's girlfriend or has a connection with Oz or that Oz loves her.

[00:30:32] Other justification for it is she was the alibi for Oz's murder of her brother.

[00:30:38] She knows Eve covered for Oz back then.

[00:30:42] And so she could have killed Eve purely because of that slight and because she provided the cover for Oz that got him away with it.

[00:30:49] But she doesn't.

[00:30:51] She allows her to talk.

[00:30:52] She sits with her.

[00:30:53] She has a moment.

[00:30:54] And then she reveals to her that Oz never told you that who the real hangman was.

[00:30:59] And that then gets Eve back on her side and she comes out with the information that she needs.

[00:31:03] Yeah, no, absolutely.

[00:31:04] Yeah.

[00:31:04] I mean, that's the thing, the tension, because there's proper kind of punch, counterpunch.

[00:31:14] You know, this is like a fencing match a bit.

[00:31:16] I mean, I like the fact that, you know, Eve's got the now, as you say, to get the money to get Sophia up there.

[00:31:24] And you can sense that Sophia would have some kind of respect for that.

[00:31:27] Yeah.

[00:31:27] But it's also that Eve challenges Sophia and maybe it's what stays her hand.

[00:31:33] You know, as she said, I've not had the privilege of growing up to be able to think that everything is black and white.

[00:31:40] I've had to think of Grey's.

[00:31:42] That's why, in effect, I said I would be his alibi, even though he didn't tell me why when I agreed to it.

[00:31:52] Yeah.

[00:31:52] It's also because it's dealing with Oz, it's dealing with you, it's dealing with whoever else.

[00:31:59] And like that she kind of throws something that, you know, Oz is not that complicated and he's not just one thing.

[00:32:06] Yes.

[00:32:06] Like you seem to think.

[00:32:07] Again, to this black and white dichotomy.

[00:32:10] You know, he's a liar, a narcissist, a killer.

[00:32:15] You know, he's all of these things.

[00:32:17] He's not just one or the other.

[00:32:19] And I just like how this kind of, as you say, just flows through.

[00:32:24] And I mean, in a sense, you do get that sense that Eve is when Sophia says, you know, well, you were his alibi for Alberto.

[00:32:34] You knew that Alberto had been killed.

[00:32:38] And she kind of retorts, but well, are you or are you not the hangman now?

[00:32:45] What are you going to do?

[00:32:47] Yeah.

[00:32:47] Yeah.

[00:32:48] Yeah.

[00:32:48] You're going to shoot me here like the hangman would do like that murderer or are you not?

[00:32:55] It's really great, great stuff.

[00:32:58] Absolutely.

[00:32:59] Absolutely.

[00:32:59] Excellent moments in here.

[00:33:00] And that's what leads Sophia to Oz's apartment at the end of the episode.

[00:33:05] That tip off that she gets from Eve.

[00:33:08] I think we can move away from Sophia for a minute.

[00:33:11] Yes, I think so.

[00:33:12] And on to our case note number three, the gold summit.

[00:33:18] It's kind of a small point, but it's a big moment.

[00:33:20] It even gives the episode its title.

[00:33:22] It's a huge moment.

[00:33:24] It's a small point, though, because the real center of it is that Oz gathers together the heads of every single crime gang other than the Gigantes and Moronis together for a discussion.

[00:33:34] And Oz is at the center of it.

[00:33:36] He says to them all, the Gigantes and the Falconis and the Moronis have all just been looking for your territory, looking for your money.

[00:33:43] They wrap you up, they take your territory and it becomes theirs.

[00:33:46] But the most wanted on all of their list is me.

[00:33:49] And if we all join together, if all of us become a new alliance, we can absolutely take on them.

[00:33:56] If you work with the ones that hate each other the most, it'll become a complete surprise to the Gigantes and the Moronis and we will be able to survive them.

[00:34:06] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:34:07] Like this is small but mighty.

[00:34:09] Yes, it's not particularly long, but it's a scene that brings all the other crime gangs together to be pitched a new way forward.

[00:34:23] And that doesn't involve two crime families.

[00:34:30] But more importantly than that, the higher elites in Gotham running the show.

[00:34:38] No.

[00:34:40] Because we've also seen Oz taking pliers to the nose of a councilman in order to get the power back on in Crown Point and specifically for his and his mother's apartment.

[00:34:54] That was a really brutal scene.

[00:34:56] It really was.

[00:34:57] I don't know why a pair of pliers just looks even more brutal than someone putting a gun to someone or cutting someone.

[00:35:03] No, it does.

[00:35:04] It's just the way they're used is so vicious, I suppose.

[00:35:07] But it's even the aftermath of that.

[00:35:09] I really like how Colin Farrell plays it where he says, as only a little bit of blood, you'll be fine.

[00:35:14] And then the guy gets into the car to take off and then he's kind of faffing around about with the reversing out of the point.

[00:35:20] He says, you've got more room than you think.

[00:35:22] It's almost like being helpful.

[00:35:23] Yeah.

[00:35:24] Like five seconds earlier, he had the pliers ready to pull off his nose effectively.

[00:35:29] Yeah.

[00:35:29] So I can't really like that.

[00:35:31] But I mean, you know, it's to the point that it's not just the Moronis and the Gigantes slash Falcons.

[00:35:38] It's also the city elite, the councilmen, the judges that also get a benefit from running the city.

[00:35:50] Like we heard that all the power has been diverted to the richer neighborhoods, not to the poor neighborhoods.

[00:35:57] And so this gold summit does involve crime, but it starts to aim and take aim at the city's foundations.

[00:36:10] Because Oz Cobb is very good at bribing and manipulating the city, whether it's in the mayor's office, the courts or the GCPD.

[00:36:23] So I really liked this pitch.

[00:36:27] Yeah.

[00:36:27] And I liked his challenge to like, I think it's the head of the Sullivan gang.

[00:36:32] You know, he's kind of saying, yeah, but it was my guys that were strung up as a message.

[00:36:37] And Oz just goes back to him.

[00:36:39] Well, why?

[00:36:41] Why aren't you after the Moronis and the Gigantes?

[00:36:44] They did it.

[00:36:45] Yeah.

[00:36:45] Why are you coming for me?

[00:36:48] Because they keep you in this low position through fear.

[00:36:54] They ignore you.

[00:36:55] I'm offering that we'll have each other's backs.

[00:36:58] You know, I like the fact that the triad is still sort of wavering.

[00:37:02] I actually did think that his second in command, his underboss, was going to shoot him because he was going to be taking too long.

[00:37:10] Yeah.

[00:37:10] I thought he was going to like do the can, which he doesn't.

[00:37:14] But I love the whole can that's of the can going as like the non-verbal agreement.

[00:37:22] I thought that was really, really good because, you know, he strolls on up and just starts throwing out cans of beer to which one of the gang leaders says, what's this about?

[00:37:32] You know, what are you doing?

[00:37:34] I think as well, there's a bit of the narcissist element that Eve talks about here, even though it might be actually covering some truthful elements here where, you know, Oswald is confessing to killing Alberto, taking the bliss for his own ends.

[00:37:52] Yeah.

[00:37:52] Effectively, because that's where the distrust from the triad leader is still coming, you know, from.

[00:37:58] But he's basically saying, you know, he hustled.

[00:38:01] And he's he's making the pitch of I'm the same as you.

[00:38:04] Yeah.

[00:38:05] I'm a hustler.

[00:38:06] Yes, I did all these things.

[00:38:08] But if we come together right here, right now, you know, if we work with those we hate rather than those who don't know our names and we can change Gotham and this city for us.

[00:38:23] Absolutely.

[00:38:24] He does also take credit for the murder of the Moronis as well, for setting them on fire and says this in front of all the gang leaders.

[00:38:30] You know, so he's telling them how brutal he is and he's telling them the things that he's done.

[00:38:35] But that is the that is the kind of big thing that ties Oswald Cobblepot in with all of this is they will know your name.

[00:38:43] It's a it's it's a very Godfather thing, a very mafia thing.

[00:38:47] And what he's saying here, but it's he's standing in front of a group of people and telling them, you know, the Sullivan specifically.

[00:38:52] He's telling them, you know, they were the first gang in Gotham, even the comic books.

[00:38:56] The Sullivan's were that were before all the other gangs in Gotham.

[00:38:59] But they never ran anything.

[00:39:00] They ran for the other crime bosses.

[00:39:02] And he's saying to them, you know, when the Sullivan's came here, when the Irish came here, they built the massive bridge you see behind you, the massive bridge that people wouldn't be able to get to the rich part of the city without that bridge.

[00:39:12] And whose name is on it?

[00:39:13] It's not the Sullivan Bridge.

[00:39:14] You know, it is the rich people that are naming the bridges in the city and your names are being forgotten.

[00:39:19] And so he had said that earlier on with with Victor, he'd said, you know, our names will live in infamy.

[00:39:26] People will tell stories about Oswald Cobb and Victor Aguilar.

[00:39:31] Our names will live on forever.

[00:39:33] And here he is telling the heads of the gangs of Gotham that their names will live on in infamy and using the same method that Eve uses with her girls, which is, again, something interesting.

[00:39:42] You know, she said to Sophia, my girls have my back.

[00:39:47] I have theirs.

[00:39:47] Whereas I had the same with ours and ours is now telling all the rest of the gangs.

[00:39:52] If we all have each other's backs, we'll take over the city here.

[00:39:55] It is.

[00:39:55] It's it's it's all those different strategies.

[00:39:58] It's also that I come from humble, low beginnings like you.

[00:40:02] We are cut from the same cloth.

[00:40:04] Yeah.

[00:40:04] Even runs in.

[00:40:06] We have him and Victor earlier on talking about the gang leader that he really looked up to.

[00:40:12] Yeah.

[00:40:12] And, you know, because he's bringing everyone from Crown Point into work.

[00:40:16] Exactly.

[00:40:16] They're making money.

[00:40:17] They're working.

[00:40:18] Yeah.

[00:40:19] And again, it's to that point that he is making to, you know, the other leaders of the gangs here, like the Triads, the Lowboys, the Odessas, the Sullivans.

[00:40:31] And it's actually a little bit German Mao, like really, you know, lowly beginnings and making big revolutionary changes or whatever, any kind of revolution, you know, in that sense.

[00:40:46] Yeah.

[00:40:47] And so really, really good.

[00:40:49] Absolutely.

[00:40:49] Really enjoyed this.

[00:40:51] But I think on to our case note number four, because, yes, everyone's doing much better in Crown Point.

[00:40:59] Certainly now that Arliss has used the plier technique to get the power back on, but more so as well, people have got money.

[00:41:10] But not necessarily everyone.

[00:41:12] And I love how this thing comes back to Squiz, who we saw in the last episode watching Victor and Francis Cobb going into the building where they're staying.

[00:41:25] And this comes back over the course of this episode, you know, I think Victor tries to tell him he's got problems when he used to know it could be an issue for the operation.

[00:41:36] You know, he's worried that this is going to somehow upset the apple cart.

[00:41:40] Yeah.

[00:41:42] And in the end, the way Victor tries to handle it by kind of fobbing him off and paying him off with some of his wage, Squid is not happy about.

[00:41:54] He wants to be in on the money because he's seeing Victor with a swag in his stride and new runners and money.

[00:42:09] Exactly.

[00:42:09] And he wants a part of that.

[00:42:11] And lots of it, you know, like, again, Squid would have known him when he lost his family.

[00:42:16] He was working for Squid when he was trying to steal the hubcaps off us's car.

[00:42:21] So Squid knows where Victor comes from and knows that if he suddenly has this influx of money, there's something behind it.

[00:42:27] But what I do really like about Squid is that he obviously grew up in the streets of Gotham because he had that information about Victor and Oswald's mom for what we know now as months because he saw them when they arrived on the first day.

[00:42:38] Yeah.

[00:42:39] And held on to that piece of information, squirreled it away, put it in the back of his mind and said, whenever that becomes important for me to use in the future, I will use it at the best time possible.

[00:42:48] And he thought this moment with Victor where Victor's pushing him away, telling him he's going to pay him some money now.

[00:42:54] Maybe there'll be a job down the line, but he'll get him some more money the next week.

[00:42:57] When Victor's trying to placate him, he thinks that's the right time to use that information and say, well, maybe I want to cut at this.

[00:43:03] Maybe I'll be able to sell out Oswald and to the other people that are looking for him, basically.

[00:43:09] Yeah, no, absolutely.

[00:43:10] And I think as well, the other really great part about this kind of sequence with Victor and Squid is he like in the aftermath of Squid being shot in the neck.

[00:43:25] It looks pretty gruesome and gory.

[00:43:27] You have Victor telling Oz sort of by not really saying that he's gotten rid of him, that he's killed him.

[00:43:36] And you have Oz coming back as that, in a sense, you know, weird father figure where he tries to calm him down.

[00:43:45] You know, he's saying, you know, you've done the right thing.

[00:43:48] You protected those you cared about.

[00:43:50] You're strong.

[00:43:52] And I love the moment that he whispers to him.

[00:43:55] It gets easier.

[00:43:57] I just think that's a like it's weird that I'm about to say it, but I just feel that's really important for this character.

[00:44:05] Yes.

[00:44:05] And and to be honest, I think it's what heightens sort of the ending of this episode for me, because you feel as though it's coming together here for Victor.

[00:44:14] Even yes, he's killed Squid and it's not a nice thing.

[00:44:18] But in that world, he is fighting for his life and he's taken this path because it's a path where he can see that he can create a better life for himself.

[00:44:29] You know, and Squid endangered that.

[00:44:34] And so he's fought.

[00:44:37] He's shot him, you know, and then you have him being kind of just centered again.

[00:44:44] And by Oz, you know, did you get away clean?

[00:44:48] Yeah.

[00:44:49] Get get those clothes off.

[00:44:50] Yeah.

[00:44:51] Make the changes.

[00:44:52] Get get them disposed of those clothes and get a good night's sleep and we're ready for you tomorrow.

[00:44:59] He is.

[00:44:59] And you're staying at home.

[00:45:00] Yeah.

[00:45:00] Minds elsewhere.

[00:45:01] So you're not coming to the gang meets with me.

[00:45:04] Yeah.

[00:45:04] You go home.

[00:45:05] Look after my mother.

[00:45:06] Mm hmm.

[00:45:06] And but I just thought that whole scene was great.

[00:45:10] And I just think cherry on top for me was just the way you have Oz Cobb leaning in, giving him that reassuring hug.

[00:45:19] But just saying in a whisper, it gets easier.

[00:45:22] Yeah.

[00:45:22] Yeah.

[00:45:23] Because he's been there.

[00:45:24] Well, exactly.

[00:45:25] You know, the two things about Victor really are that the last positive influence he had in his life got on a bus and left the city and he let her go.

[00:45:35] That's one of the most important things about what's happening with Victor here.

[00:45:40] And the second thing that I do want to know about, though, is Oz says to him, did you get away clean?

[00:45:44] Did he get away clean?

[00:45:45] Because it looked like he fleed the scene to me.

[00:45:47] He shot him and ran away from the scene.

[00:45:50] And we know the GCPD aren't really that great in this version of Gotham.

[00:45:54] They're not people that hunt down killers.

[00:45:56] They usually just try and get a couple more kickbacks.

[00:46:00] But also potentially not in Crown Point.

[00:46:03] But leaving the body of Squid on the street, you know, where it was they met.

[00:46:08] I know they met in a bit of a weird location, a kind of a hidden location.

[00:46:12] But did Victor get away clean?

[00:46:14] Will somebody find and connect the death of Squid with Victor?

[00:46:19] Will he be found out for his first murder?

[00:46:21] Or has he got way bigger things in his mind other than that body being found?

[00:46:25] Absolutely.

[00:46:26] I mean, and I think interestingly, though, it just foreshadows what's about to come, which is Oz actually hasn't gotten away clean either because you have Mama Giganti stalking around Crown Point.

[00:46:41] Absolutely.

[00:46:42] And I think with that, onto our case note number five, which is dealing with that, but it's also Francis Cobb's declining health.

[00:46:51] We've got some really tough scenes here between Oz and his mother, Francis Cobb, who's just played so well here by Deirdre O'Connell.

[00:47:04] It's just good.

[00:47:05] Like, there's a few things here where I'm just like, it's such fantastic sort of observation in the character.

[00:47:15] Yeah, she just gives an absolutely wonderful performance here.

[00:47:18] Really, really love those moments.

[00:47:19] The power's just gone out.

[00:47:21] The music's gone off.

[00:47:22] And she starts to talk about, you know, well, if I'm going to be locked up here, I'm going to be able to listen to my music.

[00:47:27] Why aren't you paying the bills?

[00:47:28] And starts to get a little bit confused about why Oz is there.

[00:47:32] Where's her husband?

[00:47:33] Is he downtown paying the bills?

[00:47:34] Is one of her sons downtown paying the bills?

[00:47:36] And Oz completely flips on her saying, you know, they're gone.

[00:47:40] I'm the only one here for you.

[00:47:42] Victor kind of interrupts and tries to play along with this lie or play along with this version of life that's going on in Francis's head.

[00:47:52] But interestingly, that's where Oz turns on Victor for a second.

[00:47:56] We see a bit of anger from Oz saying, what are you doing?

[00:47:59] You're making it worse.

[00:48:00] And don't you ever speak of my family again.

[00:48:02] Don't you ever speak of my brothers.

[00:48:03] Don't mention their names again.

[00:48:05] I don't know.

[00:48:06] We don't know how this series is going to end.

[00:48:08] And certainly at the end of this episode, we don't know what is going to happen to Victor or Francis.

[00:48:12] But just that moment where Oz turns on Victor for the first time in a couple of episodes, let's say, with a lot of frustration.

[00:48:20] I do wonder if Victor's going to end at the hands of Oswald Cobb towards the end of the series.

[00:48:27] Is he going to say something or do something that will push him over the edge?

[00:48:31] Remember, we were talking earlier on in the season that he'd gone through three episodes in a row having a gun pointed at him by Oz.

[00:48:38] So will that be the way that Victor goes towards the end of the series?

[00:48:42] Well, let's say it could all just be a big lie from Oz as well in order to get himself back on the running.

[00:48:50] In the same way as with the Gold Summit.

[00:48:53] I mean, I think it is to that point.

[00:48:55] You know, you have Sophia and Sal's take saying he doesn't care about anything or anyone.

[00:49:02] And clearly we see him caring about his mother and potentially Victor.

[00:49:09] The question is, are they genuine?

[00:49:13] Is it something that he's hiding or covering up with his mother?

[00:49:18] Or is it just some kind of using of Victor that we don't know about?

[00:49:25] So, like, we don't know.

[00:49:29] I mean, we're assuming that him giving Victor responsibility to look after his mother, which you think he clearly does care about from all of this, means that he cares about Victor.

[00:49:42] And the same with those moments.

[00:49:43] So we don't know.

[00:49:44] It could all just be a ruse for sure.

[00:49:47] But again, the other side of this is where we see her in a cold bath.

[00:49:53] Don't know for how long.

[00:49:54] And Oz finds her.

[00:49:56] And in the end, I mean, it's quite a touching scene, I think.

[00:50:01] But it ends off with her saying, you know, if I get any worse, then you need to kill me.

[00:50:10] I don't want to be one of these broads who doesn't know where they are, doesn't know what they're doing.

[00:50:16] If I ever get like that, promise me that you'll kill me.

[00:50:21] And he's like saying, no, I can't.

[00:50:24] So I won't.

[00:50:24] It's not natural to do.

[00:50:26] But in the end, sort of agrees to her wishes because she says, well, if you really love me, you would do that.

[00:50:34] And then you have this quite tender moment of him applying her makeup to make her look really pretty.

[00:50:40] So like some of this is really, really tough, I think, and really sort of quite deep.

[00:50:48] And the observations, the character observations of this is, I think, are really quite good.

[00:50:54] Absolutely.

[00:50:54] To be honest.

[00:50:55] Yeah, it's so tough to watch just, you know, again, Francis Cobb saying, you know, I don't want to have just that enough left of my mind to know how everything has fallen apart.

[00:51:06] I want you to be the one to kill me.

[00:51:09] It's your responsibility.

[00:51:10] You're my son.

[00:51:12] And it's really tough.

[00:51:13] You know, it's a really, really tough watch, but excellently performed by Deirdre O'Connell.

[00:51:19] Really loved it.

[00:51:20] And again, that moment where she's all dressed up and ready to go to the ball where Oswald makes her feel good about herself again, you know, as she gets all dolled up by him.

[00:51:30] I think it's very cool.

[00:51:31] Yeah.

[00:51:32] Yeah.

[00:51:32] I think it's like when the power comes back on, you know, and the lights and music all kind of power back up.

[00:51:38] Yeah.

[00:51:39] And initially she's all kind of disorientated and shocked, but, you know, then kind of wants the music and the light on.

[00:51:48] And I like the way how she starts to dance with Victor.

[00:51:51] I mean, Victor is the one that looks awkward.

[00:51:53] Yeah.

[00:51:54] Given his age, he seems to be the stiffest of them, whether it's just because he's doing it with an old lady.

[00:51:59] But he gets into it.

[00:52:01] And I think this is the point that's really good then just coming back to Sophia arriving at Oz's apartment.

[00:52:08] And all the shenanigans and goings on of the power coming back on and the record player blurring out, the lights flickering on and so on.

[00:52:19] Fans whirring back into action.

[00:52:21] You do hear a noise, some kind of background noise.

[00:52:24] And you do see Victor sort of looking to see where that's come from.

[00:52:30] And that is Sophia breaking into the apartment in order to get in without a shadow of a doubt.

[00:52:36] And that's why then it, for me, it just felt really chilling seeing these, this really quite cute moment between Victor and Francis.

[00:52:44] And some joy after what you'd seen, but that it could potentially be ripped away because you see Sophia there with crowbar in hand, sort of looking on at Francis Cobb and Victor.

[00:53:02] Yeah.

[00:53:03] Yeah.

[00:53:04] Yeah.

[00:53:04] You're absolutely right.

[00:53:04] It's a really shocking way to end the episode.

[00:53:07] I just thought it was going to pan out and then go on to something else that Oz was doing.

[00:53:11] You know, didn't expect it to have Sophia at the end of the hallway with the crowbar in hand.

[00:53:16] And that's kind of it for the end of the episode.

[00:53:19] But that's the cliffhanger that we have to wait a week to watch the next episode.

[00:53:24] Absolutely.

[00:53:24] Yeah.

[00:53:25] Any notes for this episode?

[00:53:27] Just the one thing we didn't talk about was Dr. Julian Rush in the episode because he makes another insanely good appearance in a moment with Sophia.

[00:53:36] Sophia, as we see him strapped to a chair, pants down after getting a right old whipping, it sounds like, from Sophia.

[00:53:46] She even says to him, you know, are you okay?

[00:53:48] Are you hurt?

[00:53:49] And he goes, well, if I am hurt, I deserved it for what I did to you.

[00:53:52] You know, so he's still on his knees, still begging for forgiveness for Sophia, who doesn't really seem to care that much at this stage.

[00:54:00] No, he seems to have a bigger bee in his bonnet than she does, to be honest.

[00:54:05] Yeah.

[00:54:06] Yeah.

[00:54:06] But there's just an interesting line that he says to her where he asks, when you find Oz Cobb, make sure you use my talents and contact me and use my talents.

[00:54:18] Feel free to use my expertise, he says.

[00:54:21] Yeah.

[00:54:21] So what's that?

[00:54:21] What expertise does he have?

[00:54:23] Well, we know he's a psychologist and a psychiatrist, I guess.

[00:54:26] I guess he knows safe words after this one.

[00:54:29] I'd say he does.

[00:54:30] I'd say he does.

[00:54:31] Yeah.

[00:54:31] He might know how to type people up.

[00:54:32] Yeah.

[00:54:34] I mean, at least intuitively, it's that he's a psychologist.

[00:54:38] He can use him to sort of maybe interrogate him or, you know, he's got access to various chemicals or whatever that may prove useful.

[00:54:48] Maybe, yeah.

[00:54:49] Yeah.

[00:54:49] That could be an interesting idea.

[00:54:51] Yeah.

[00:54:51] Could be.

[00:54:52] Yes.

[00:54:52] You know, psychotropic gas, I guess, that would show images of their past and, you know, fear.

[00:55:03] Yeah.

[00:55:04] Hanging on that same kind of thing.

[00:55:06] Maybe it's on similar kind of plane as that, maybe.

[00:55:10] Yeah.

[00:55:11] Yeah.

[00:55:11] But just a very interesting scene with him.

[00:55:13] So I do want to see more of Theo Rossi later on in the season.

[00:55:17] Yeah.

[00:55:17] We've only seen little bits of him throughout the season, so I'm hoping we're going to see more of him later on in the season.

[00:55:22] Yeah.

[00:55:22] No, the only other note I have is probably an observation, and you mentioned it about when Oz says to himself and Victor, he says, you know, our names will go down in history across Gotham, you know, as he does say Victor Aguilar and Oz Cobb.

[00:55:43] And it's just the expression he has after he says Oz Cobb, he realizes that it's not got the ring to it.

[00:55:51] Oh, interesting.

[00:55:52] It just felt that was the kind of expression.

[00:55:55] Right.

[00:55:56] That he was like, oh, maybe that doesn't sound quite as good as, you know, it should do.

[00:56:01] Interesting.

[00:56:02] Interesting.

[00:56:02] So we think, like, he actually calls himself Oswald Cobb here as well.

[00:56:07] So do you think he might be adding on the cobble?

[00:56:10] Well, I wonder if the name might get longer, but you never know.

[00:56:13] I mean, it could just, yeah, it might be nothing or it could be something.

[00:56:17] It might just add back in the name.

[00:56:19] Maybe for all the comic books that'll be written about his adventures in Gotham.

[00:56:23] Anyway, overall, John, how would you race this episode of The Penguin?

[00:56:28] Another corker for me.

[00:56:29] I'd give this five squid games out of five.

[00:56:33] Yeah, I just really, really enjoyed seeing this sort of time jump.

[00:56:37] I love all the relationships here.

[00:56:39] And in particular, I think sort of seeing this new onscreen pairing, however brief it might be, of Eve and Sophia.

[00:56:47] It was really, really good.

[00:56:49] Yeah.

[00:56:49] But, I mean, this cast is phenomenal.

[00:56:53] I mean, from Victor, Francis and Oz to Oz's kind of pitch to the other gangs, to Sophia and Sal, everything is really, really firing on all cylinders.

[00:57:09] Absolutely.

[00:57:09] And I'm just getting pulled into this.

[00:57:11] It's not one thing that I can say, oh, I love the action here.

[00:57:14] I love this scene here.

[00:57:15] I'm just liking the whole story.

[00:57:19] All of it's working for me.

[00:57:20] Multiple levels, you know, in the moment, being worried about characters that I shouldn't be, you know, hoping that they survive, you know, real sort of getting buy-in here.

[00:57:36] So, absolutely love what they're doing here in the Penguin series.

[00:57:40] I would give this five Squid Games out of five.

[00:57:45] Fantastic.

[00:57:46] Yeah.

[00:57:47] Love it.

[00:57:47] Really, really enjoying the show.

[00:57:49] Let's go on to the Iceberg Lounge for our next quiz question, John.

[00:57:54] Yes.

[00:57:55] Fellow quizzers, fellow Gothamites, it is question six of our Iceberg Lounge quiz.

[00:58:01] And here we go.

[00:58:03] What is the dish that Salmarone cooks for Sophia Giganti?

[00:58:08] And for an extra point, what did Salmarone's son add to it to make it better?

[00:58:17] Very good.

[00:58:18] I have a feeling you might need the subtitles on for this one.

[00:58:21] I know we did to get the spelling.

[00:58:23] John, do you want to give that question one more time?

[00:58:25] Yes.

[00:58:25] What is the dish that Salmarone cooks for Sophia Giganti?

[00:58:31] And what did his son, Taj, add to it to make it better?

[00:58:37] Fantastic.

[00:58:38] That's question six of ice.

[00:58:39] Gather together all the correct answers and email us at the end of the season to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com

[00:58:45] with your correct answers.

[00:58:46] And you could be in with a chance of getting your hands on some Penguin goodies.

[00:58:49] Please, that's also where you email us with your feedback for the show at that address or pop on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash TV podcast industries where you can share your thoughts on each of the episodes as they come out.

[00:59:02] Yes.

[00:59:02] But shall we move on to our criminal comms feedback section for episode six?

[00:59:09] First up, we have an email from Coffee and Vodka who says,

[00:59:13] Greetings, fellow Blissfully United defenders.

[00:59:16] So Oz might be paying blood for blood with his past sins, but that kind of doesn't bother me.

[00:59:23] With two teams and three complicated but decidedly bad guys, I honestly don't have a horse in this race.

[00:59:30] Sal's begrudging recognition of Oswald's power is as entertaining to see as Sophia's dogged detecting.

[00:59:38] And watching their game of dominoes from warnings to free demand creating drugs to an inter-gang alliance was solidly and organically interesting.

[00:59:50] Oz's solution to not being a wimp and bringing power to the masses, but mostly his mother, was about as direct as you'd expect,

[00:59:57] but still creative in his choice of tools for the job.

[01:00:01] But it all comes down to a happy dance to a nice song in an apartment with a revenge-hungry Sophia waiting in the wings.

[01:00:10] We need next week, now, five squibbled squids, leatherman embraces, and power moves out of five peace and take care, coffee and vodka.

[01:00:22] P.S. Julian's rather strong Scarecrow hint did not go unnoticed, but is something for a season two if we get one?

[01:00:31] Oh, very good, coffee and vodka.

[01:00:33] So that could be why, that could be the words of Dr. Julian Rush, that he could be Scarecrow.

[01:00:39] Maybe Scarecrow in the Batman 2 movie.

[01:00:41] We don't know much about Batman 2 at all yet.

[01:00:44] So maybe the reason why we see Julian on his own quite a lot is it might have been a late-minute addition to the show.

[01:00:49] So we see Theo Rossi kind of being added in around the edges.

[01:00:53] So that when it gets to Batman 2, he can come to the forefront as a new Scarecrow.

[01:00:58] That would be interesting.

[01:00:59] Yeah, I think certainly there's a good hint there, as coffee and vodka has noticed as well.

[01:01:06] Yeah.

[01:01:07] And I mean, absolutely, completely with you,

[01:01:10] I think that ending absolutely ties this episode in a fantastic little bow.

[01:01:19] And with the cherry on top, it just really is and screams.

[01:01:24] Next week, please.

[01:01:26] Absolutely.

[01:01:27] Absolutely.

[01:01:28] So, yeah, thanks very much, coffee and vodka.

[01:01:30] Thanks, coffee and vodka.

[01:01:32] We also got an email in from Meryl Smith on this episode who says,

[01:01:34] Welcome fellow families of Team Penguin and Team Giganti Moroni.

[01:01:38] Another good episode of The Tank.

[01:01:39] Something of note that stuck out to me was the mention of the Lowboys, which I remembered from Gotham.

[01:01:44] Although I didn't know they were from the comics.

[01:01:45] I thought it was an original group created for that show.

[01:01:48] I love when some obscure comic stuff can still surprise me.

[01:01:51] Also, it looks like Sophia and Julian finally had a therapy session.

[01:01:54] And then she immediately goes and talks with her new father figure, Sal Moroni.

[01:01:58] Probably an upgrade, all things concerned.

[01:02:00] It's seven degrees of messed up in almost every scene that she's in.

[01:02:04] I love every second that Kristen Milioti is on screen.

[01:02:07] My favorite scene is probably the one with Sophia and Eve,

[01:02:09] which managed to go from a shark circling her prey to two people connecting to their place in the world of Gotham and how they relate.

[01:02:15] Now, I really want to see her interaction with Selina Kyle.

[01:02:18] Loved all the Oz and Francis stuff.

[01:02:20] Perfect Shakespearean tragedy.

[01:02:22] And I think he might end up being the one to kill her, euthanization style.

[01:02:26] If Sophia doesn't beat him to the punch, that is.

[01:02:29] Victor really is in the thick of it now.

[01:02:31] I love everything with him and Oz and Francis as well.

[01:02:34] What a unique makeshift family unit they've become.

[01:02:37] Looks like Penguin finally landed a speech that works.

[01:02:40] Although it's one that I've heard before.

[01:02:42] And let's not forget that ending.

[01:02:43] Victor really sucks at doing security.

[01:02:45] Can't wait to see where we go from here.

[01:02:48] 3.5 Jason Todd references via my nemesis, Krobarkin.

[01:02:52] Squids sleeping with the fishes.

[01:02:54] And you want to know how I got these scars therapy sessions out of five.

[01:02:58] Very good.

[01:02:59] I like that.

[01:03:01] Yes.

[01:03:01] So Julian covered in scars after his therapy session with Sophia.

[01:03:06] Thanks so much, Meryl.

[01:03:08] Absolutely with you on everything you've said.

[01:03:12] I think in particular the unique makeshift family that is Oz, Victor and Francis.

[01:03:18] There's, I don't know, something really kind of positive about it.

[01:03:24] And I mean, you know, that's in a, I guess as like Coffee and Vodka said, that's in a show where technically you shouldn't have a horse in the race here.

[01:03:34] They're all potentially varying degrees of despicable.

[01:03:40] Apart from Francis, maybe I would hasten to add.

[01:03:43] Although she certainly seems to have a good influence over Oz.

[01:03:48] But yeah, she's wondering which members of which family is going to kill next.

[01:03:52] You know, she's kind of enjoying the old, the death of the existing order.

[01:03:57] But I really like that.

[01:03:59] I just call it the makeshift family.

[01:04:02] And yeah, he does suck at doing security.

[01:04:07] But I think crowballs are pretty good at getting through security if they need to.

[01:04:14] I think what's really good, as I said, that moment where you hear it before you see it, in a sense.

[01:04:21] You hear the forced entry.

[01:04:25] But over the din of everything else, it doesn't necessarily register as that.

[01:04:30] And you get that reaction from Victor.

[01:04:32] And then you see her stood there with the crowbar.

[01:04:35] And you're like, that's so good.

[01:04:37] That's really good.

[01:04:37] It's really good.

[01:04:38] But yeah, last week he was asleep when Oz walked into the house.

[01:04:43] And this week he's dancing when there's an attack from the Giganti family.

[01:04:48] Not great.

[01:04:49] Let's see how that plays out next week.

[01:04:51] Thanks so much for that, Meryl.

[01:04:52] Yeah, thanks, Meryl.

[01:04:53] Over on Facebook, Richard Blaze says,

[01:04:56] What an absolute belter of an episode.

[01:04:59] From Vic killing a squid to Oz's rousing speech near the end, it was virtually perfect.

[01:05:05] And whilst you have the backdrop of violence, drugs and poverty, it's the time Oz spends speaking with and caring for his mom that is really making this show stand out.

[01:05:16] The delight at seeing her up and dancing at the end was on a real emotional punch.

[01:05:22] Really not looking forward to next week's episode and what it means now Sophia has found them.

[01:05:28] I completely agree with you, Richard.

[01:05:32] That moment of Frances and Victor dancing and just Victor being really awkward with it and her kind of really going to town with all the lights.

[01:05:43] You know, like Christmas has all come at once in that moment.

[01:05:47] And it wasn't a real emotional punch with the pan back of it's like death watching over, you know, a joyous occasion, knowing that a death is about to happen.

[01:06:01] Really, really good.

[01:06:03] And I'm totally around these moments, particularly in this episode of Oz and Frances's relationship.

[01:06:14] But also you get Victor trying to sort of step in a bit here, like you had mentioned, Derek, and kind of being admonished by Oz for speaking about his brother.

[01:06:30] Yeah.

[01:06:30] I mean, he has no right to, but trying to help Frances out to that connection, you know.

[01:06:36] Mm-hmm.

[01:06:37] Yeah.

[01:06:37] Good stuff, Richard.

[01:06:39] Absolutely.

[01:06:39] Thanks, Richard.

[01:06:40] Also, some feedback in from Becky Anderson, again, about this family dynamic being the most important part of this episode.

[01:06:46] Becky says, the moments between Oz and his mom were heartbreaking.

[01:06:49] Hard to see a loved one disappearing like that.

[01:06:51] But I love how loving and tender Oz was with her incredible acting by both.

[01:06:56] Vic is all the way in now.

[01:06:57] No coming back from taking someone's life.

[01:06:59] Oz was brilliant selling the cruise on working with them.

[01:07:02] The devil you know versus the devil you don't.

[01:07:04] Anyone else notice the ceiling light in Eve's apartment looked like Penguin's umbrella?

[01:07:08] The look of longing on Sophia's face when she saw Victor and Mama Cobb dancing and when Eve was talking about her girls having each other's back.

[01:07:16] Things that Sophia never knew and never had.

[01:07:20] Great catches there, Becky.

[01:07:21] Yeah, that's a really good point about how Sophia is kind of learning from all of these other interactions and encounters that she's having across Gotham.

[01:07:31] Will it bode well for Frances Cobb next week when she may be able to talk to Sophia and may be able to encourage her not to kill them in some way?

[01:07:43] Or maybe Victor's going to be able to talk her around because of the things she's learning about all these people around the city?

[01:07:50] I don't know.

[01:07:51] I don't think so, though.

[01:07:52] But I think Sophia's at least learning that there's a different way of living life in Gotham than she's been used to as part of the Falcone family.

[01:08:02] Yeah, but she also realizes the need for blood when it happens.

[01:08:07] So I don't know.

[01:08:09] I don't think she's going to learn something from them.

[01:08:11] I think it might be that she keeps them alive for just the right amount of time or one of them gets away, the other doesn't, or she allows one to get away so that it can give the message.

[01:08:27] I mean, we'll have to see.

[01:08:29] I think the point is that she's found the weakness of Oz Cobb, which is the tender moments that Richard talked about.

[01:08:38] And that you see between Oz and his mother.

[01:08:42] Absolutely.

[01:08:43] Absolutely.

[01:08:43] Great stuff, Becky.

[01:08:44] Thanks so much for your feedback.

[01:08:45] And thanks, everyone, for your feedback this week.

[01:08:47] We can, of course, be reached on our email address, feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or over at our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries.com.

[01:08:57] Any other thoughts on this episode or any of the rest?

[01:08:59] Yeah, thank you as well for supporting the podcast.

[01:09:02] You can support over on patreon.com or buymeacoffee.com.

[01:09:07] Just search TV Podcast Industries.

[01:09:09] And, of course, for those who have subscribed to the podcast, please also share the podcast because sharing the podcast is, of course, fellow Gothamites sharing the love.

[01:09:21] We'll be back next week for the penultimate episode of The Penguin, Episode 7, Top Hat.

[01:09:29] That's really interesting it's called that because this week we saw Oz Cobb in his very long coat.

[01:09:35] Looks very like the cover of most Penguin books.

[01:09:38] He also had his cigar in hand.

[01:09:41] I guess maybe next week it'll be raining and he might have his top hat and umbrella.

[01:09:45] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:09:47] He's building his outfit as we speak.

[01:09:49] He is.

[01:09:50] He is.

[01:09:50] Thanks so much.

[01:09:51] Talk to you next time.

[01:09:52] Yeah, thank you so much, fellow Gothamites, for joining us for this episode of The Penguin.

[01:09:58] Of course, until next time for Episode 7, keep watching, keep listening, and, of course, keep waddling.

[01:10:05] Bye.

[01:10:06] Bye.