VisionQuest Episodes 5 and 6 Review

[00:00:00] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're talking about VisionQuest Episode 5, Firewall and Episode 6, Deadlock. Babe, I'm starting to think we might need counselling. You're forgetting I'm an older code. I've been from one end of the worldwide interweb to the other. My hacks have hacks.

[00:00:22] There is no malware you can play that I haven't already won. I can strip your code down until you're no more complex than a game of palm. What is it that you want? I want to know you. I want to know.

[00:00:52] But it will be painful. Then hurt me.

[00:01:27] Welcome back fellow Defenders to the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We are here talking about VisionQuest Episodes 5 and 6 entitled Firewall and Deadlock. I am one of your hosts, John. I am one of your other hosts, Derek. And bringing the band back together, I am Chris. Yay! Welcome back, Christoph. No, welcome back, John. I was here last week. Last week, actually.

[00:01:56] Yes, birthday week for John last week and then out partying the night that we were supposed to be recording last week. We've had a fun week of partying for John's birthday, a fun week before that of partying for my birthday. And as you may hear in the background, it's the night before Halloween. So on both sides of our microphones, we may hear some explosions. So just a little warning, if you hear some explosions, they're not special effects on my behalf. There are some fireworks going off.

[00:02:25] Yes, it is the witching hour. Well, all the local knackers look for treats. It used to work so well during Agatha all along when you had the fireworks going off in the background. But it's not as good in VisionQuest, is it? Yeah. Don't you dare give them a bit of fruit. Well, some raisins. Because they'll egg the house. Well, yes. But hopefully not.

[00:02:53] Well, look, at least where I am looking out my office window and there are a group of youths slowly rolling a number of wooden pallets down the road. Fantastic. Excellent. On a shopping trolley, which can only mean one thing. A bonfire. Yes. Oh, and that's it. It is the fireworks as well. Yes. Yes.

[00:03:16] But also how they do that is they get a number of your wheelie bins and put them and then build around the wheelie bins wooden pallets. Brilliant. So, yes, let's wait and see. I have three bins. How many bins will I have next week? Who knows? Okay.

[00:03:34] So before this podcast turns into three old men shout at children for doing things exactly what they did when they was kids, we will go back to talking about entertainment and the shows and stuff that we love loads and that makes us enjoy our time stuck indoors while other people are setting fire to things. Yes. Indeed.

[00:03:55] But we do have to start with a little bit of discussion about a bit of sad news from yesterday as unfortunately the announcement came of the death of Sir Patrick Stewart who we all love so much.

[00:04:38] Absolutely. And certainly for myself and Derek, you know, as gay men, a very important ally there as to gay men, but also to women fleeing from domestic violence. So just like all round sort of great guy, but also we've grown up with him through the 90s as he was Jean-Luc Picard in Star Trek Next Generation. Yeah.

[00:05:07] So, yeah. And also in the Marvel Universe course playing Professor X. He was in, he reprised the role in Multiverse of Madness. We talked about him there, of course. He was very lucky when they launched Star Trek Picard in the UK. I was able to go to the premiere and Patrick Stewart was there at the premiere. So, in the room with the wonderful man talking about this re-examination of his character.

[00:05:32] I know a lot of people weren't huge fans of at least some of the time of Picard, but by the end of those three seasons there was a great show there. He was an executive producer and helped with the writing for that show, along with Terry Metallus, who is the showrunner for Vision Quest as well. So, given that we're covering another show by Terry Metallus, it seemed like the right appropriate place to talk about Patrick Stewart.

[00:05:59] And he has been so central to our nerdy lives from all the way back to the 80s. And he's stayed really important to all of us ever since. So, fond farewell to the wonderful Sir Patrick. Yes. I will say my earliest memory of him in a nerd adjacent, which actually is just pure nerd, is Dune. Right. That's my first memory, the original Dune movie.

[00:06:28] And that's where I was introduced to him, and then as Duncan. And then, obviously, in the 90s is my captain for The Next Generation, and then my Professor X, which I grew up with. Yeah, absolutely. In the original Fox universe. When he reprised his role for Days of Future Past, I loved it. You had the two Xaviers there. They're very different.

[00:06:55] And it is going to be poignant to see him in December next month, in Doomsday, knowing that was his final role. But it is quite sad, and the poor man had a very short battle with Alzheimer's.

[00:07:12] So, kiss your loved ones, tell them you love him, and just remember, support any Alzheimer's adjacent charities if you feel so willing going forward. Absolutely. So, with that, RIP Sir Patrick Stewart, mon capitan. Thank you for everything. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:07:34] And we'll get on with our coverage now, fellow defenders, of episodes 5 and 6 of the Vision Quest outing. We have Firewall and Deadlock as the titles. And before we get going into this, just a quick reminder, a quick public service announcement to our wonderful fellow defenders, that if you haven't already, please go on and subscribe over at tvpodcastindustries.com

[00:08:04] on any Wiccan or speedy podcast catcher of your choice. Also, we are continuing with our Vision Quest pub quiz. Yes, the old Selkie pub quiz with our next two questions from one from each of the episodes that we cover on the podcast. And, of course, we love to get your feedback, theories, thoughts, and observations on anything to do with the show.

[00:08:33] So, please send in your emails to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or head on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash tvpodcastindustries. And, of course, you can join us over on our Discord channel. The link to that is in the show notes below. So, yes, I think with that, let us get on to our spoiler-filled discussion of episodes 5 and 6.

[00:09:02] Derek, what are some of the episode details? Well, as we mentioned before, the show was created by Terry Metallus. The executive producers for the series are Kevin Feige, Louis Desposito, Brad Winderbaum, Mary Livinos, Terry Metallus, Jack Schaefer, and Christopher J. Byrne. Episode 5 of the show was written by Christopher Monfete. He wrote five episodes of Star Trek Picard, three in Season 2 and two in Season 3, and was also a writer on 12 Monkeys as well. So, again, another writer coming in to the stable of Terry Metallus.

[00:09:31] Episode 6 was written by Nicole Falsetti, was a writer's assistant on the last two seasons of Star Trek Picard before writing this episode. So, one of the new writing credits in this season. Again, we have Terry just bringing his little crew around with him. And it's a good thing. I suppose, like, when you have that type of working relationship, or I was going to say, that is probably, that is the technical term, but that kind of friendship and understanding of how you work together and trust,

[00:10:01] then I'd say, yeah, it makes sense to bring these people with you from one property to another. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think you see that a lot of the time in the creative arts where, you know, they get to know the shortcuts of one another, and it just really helps, in a sense, with, at least in part, the smooth running of the show. But I guess to some degree, production costs, because you kind of, you know how they work,

[00:10:30] and there's a shorthand that can really help keep things moving. And also, particularly on TV, it's great to kind of have a production team in the writing side that are all kind of working together, know how to work together, and they come into the project, all work at the same time, and work at speed, and know what they're doing. So, yeah. But kind of cool to see Nicole coming up the ranks through writer's assistance on Star Trek Picard and now into a writer for this episode as well. So, it's always good. The director for both episodes is Vincenzo Natale.

[00:10:59] We know Vincenzo Natale very well here on the podcast, having covered him back in Luke Cage, where he directed Season 1, Episode 4, and also directed six episodes of Hannibal, Season 2 and Season 3, which we covered here on the podcast as well. Absolutely. And we've been doing a little bit of a re-watch as well recently of Hannibal. Yeah. Great show. Can't believe they stopped it. Just after myself and Irene were getting into Season 3 podcasting all about Hannibal. Yeah.

[00:11:28] And we're going to go back, do 1 and 2, and then it just stopped. It got cancelled. So, that is the completionist in me would possibly want to do Seasons 1 and 2. But… Especially now when we're doing the re-watch of the show. It's so good that I went out and bought the Hannibal cookbook. I know. Just to see the awesome recipes that are available. And you can eat all the food as well. It's not actual human body parts. It's actually beautiful food. I've only got three fingers now.

[00:11:58] But anyway, that's where Vincenzo comes from. John, do you want to tell us the synopsis for each of the two episodes? Episode 5, Firewall. And Episode 6, Deadlock. Keeps nibbling on my ears. That's why you married me. Sure. Sorry. That was for the synopsis. Right. Yes. Episode 5. Trapped in Ultron's attic within the Mindspace, Vision and the other AIs attempt to track Ultron.

[00:12:26] They find recordings showing Ultron talking with Tommy at a pub before allowing the Paladin to kidnap him. As well as a memory cache revealing that Ultron had leaked Vision's location to the Paladin. They also discover that Ultron scanned Katarina Wells' face before Jocosta vaporized her. Giving him possession of the final biomarker. Jocosta offers to reveal what the biomarkers unlock.

[00:12:51] If Ultron gives the biomarker of Katarina Wells' face to her. Meanwhile, back in the Mindspace's attic, the AIs realize that lowering the firewall in their code is the only way for Vision to regain control of his body to rescue Tommy. Though doing so also grants Ultron access to the digital world.

[00:13:12] Ultron meets Vision in the attic and gives him a choice to keep him and them locked up or lower the firewall and save Tommy. Vision lowers the firewall that allows him to regain control while Ultron escapes the Mindspace but with Friday in pursuit. Vision awakens alongside Lisa aboard a plane headed to Madripoor. Episode 6

[00:13:37] The Paladin brings Tommy to Madripoor to blackmail Vision and Lisa into surrendering. But they are interrupted when Ten Ring soldiers led by Raza Alwaza on behalf of the client attack them. Tommy and Lisa hijack the Paladin's van with help from Edith and assist Vision while Paladin subdues Raza.

[00:13:58] Elsewhere in her own Mindscape, Jocosta reveals to Ultron that the biomarkers unlock The Nest, a vault of nanobots she created as Joe Carrington. Jocosta plans to deploy the nanobots to make humans more machine-like and control their minds. Friday, who followed Ultron into the Mindspace and disguised herself as an ordinary robot, alerts Edith to the dangers of the nanobots.

[00:14:24] But Jocosta manages to infect Lisa with a prototype nanobot. Tommy uses his powers to deactivate it, saving Lisa. But as they flee Madripoor with an unconscious Lisa, Vision tells Tommy the truth about the WandaVision sitcom and his memories. Back in Jocosta's Mindspace, Ultron and Jocosta's relationship develops further as they embrace each other and share a kiss.

[00:14:52] Err, robots kissing? Err. Well, when it means the end of the world, I might be saying, err, or oh god. Oh yes, a whiskey-flavoured robot kiss between these two big, big bads. Yeah, what a great way to end these two episodes. Overall, pretty cool episodes. Very. I have to say, there is so much going on in this show.

[00:15:21] It's definitely avoiding the trope of putting hardly any character development in episodes and putting just pew-pew action. This is all about the interactions between all of these characters. I'm writing three, four pages of notes on every one of these episodes. It's really talky, but I really like it. And I think it's... Makes sense for Vision character.

[00:15:44] I think the visuals from episode five for me, Firewall, with that black and white imagery, where they're kind of replicating the real world scene, and where Vision and the other AIs trapped in his Mindspace are in colour. Which I just thought was just spot on. Absolutely. I just loved all that and what it explored, you know? Yeah, yeah. I know that's probably my contribution to the code line number one.

[00:16:14] Well, let's get on to it. Yeah. Yeah, I think we should get into it because there's two really interesting episodes here. So let's get into our top five code lines with code line number one. It's to the pub for a pint. Oh, I just wanted this quote for our pub quiz from now on. Where does it look like they're going? Looks like he's taking him for a pint.

[00:16:45] I love this. Obviously, the opening of the episode, we find out that Vision and all of his AIs are locked up in the same attic, that same loft that Ultron has been in for these last, what, eight years, nine years, isn't it? Since Ultron came back or wasn't killed. So he's been locked in this Mindspace for that long and stuck up in the attic. So we have them all trying to work their way out of this location. I thought this was really cool.

[00:17:14] Everybody working through the problem, trying to work out how they could use the techniques that Ultron used to access the outside world, to try and find out where Tommy is. I love that it's an indeterminate amount of time when they wake up. It could be years. It could be hours. They don't know anything because they're so blocked off from the outside world. And then seeing them navigate through accessing back doors to try and see the outside world, I thought was really cool. And obviously using dummy and use abilities as well was deadly.

[00:17:44] Very cool. This whole episode was fantastic for me. But in particular, how we learned, how they interacted. And yes, I know you said it about the talky-talky aspect. But actually showing them recreating this, almost like on a holodeck, speaking of a captain. Wow. This was so much fun. It was great to see and seeing them in the scenes.

[00:18:14] So having Ultron in the form of Ultron when he was in Vision's body, but seeing him interact and then having Vision and the rest of them in the background, viewing some of this. It's a very unique take on what we've always seen as these flashback episodes. If that's essentially what this was, this was a flashback to a couple of hours ago.

[00:18:42] But seeing how they did it, I was like, oh, this is fun. It was a data dump, but just done so imaginatively. It's been funny seeing some of the reactions. I saw this episode when we got the screeners a couple of weeks ago. And it was so fun watching how it all played out and seeing the reaction of some people watching it going, well, they saved on budget. You know, that was what their aim was, was just to not have Ultron on screen all the time because that costs loads of money.

[00:19:11] And you're going, they saved on budget in some ways. I get it. But if you notice, there are scenes where you have Paul Bettany as Vision in the pub talking to Tommy. Then you have those scenes replayed with James Spader in the scene that's being recreated. And you have all the characters in the background in color and them and them in black and white like they're on CCTV footage.

[00:19:34] So the creativity that was in there in the scenes shouldn't be lost just because they're not having Ultron the robot on screen. And most of these scenes, the creativity that's being used to create something really interesting that almost looks like a stage play, but also has some really cool TV elements in there. Yeah, really love. I think that's right. I mean, I think what do they say? Necessity is the mother of invention.

[00:20:01] In this case, having to keep the budget tight means you have to be a bit more inventive as to how you're going to stylize something like this. But then on the flip side of that, it's finding the moments where you do splash the cash. And I think later on, there's a great transition of them from human to robot form, which is really, really good. There's those nice little touches. But I totally agree.

[00:20:30] I thought, you know, the black and white scenes with whether it was Tommy and Ultron at the pub, whether it was Ultron with Jocosta sort of at the Louvre in Paris looking at the artwork or earlier on, I think was really, really well done. Like you say, almost a bit like a stage play.

[00:20:52] It was absolutely a way of providing flashbacks, as you say, Chris, but also that exposition. I think what's really interesting, though, that comes through this bit and into episode six is just that theme of Jocosta using the whiskey. So it's a bit like a whiskey watch.

[00:21:20] We don't know what type of whiskey it is, but, you know, that's a really nice through theme. I think this opening part between Tommy and Ultron, I kind of like the difference between the two. You know, I felt Tommy was just being really sort of all in, very total. You know, he says, like, everything they say or don't tells you everything about them. And Ultron's kind of like, well, kind of, you know.

[00:21:49] And it's like he goes, well, I might still kill the human race, but not the artists because they tell the truth. And I kind of like how the two of them sort of have this back and forth where Ultron kind of forces Tommy to say the question that he can't answer. You know, does Vision love him effectively?

[00:22:15] But Ultron sort of saying, well, he's never going to be exactly who you want him to be. But like a cheap tie, it's trying. And, you know, isn't that worth something? Because otherwise you need to arm yourself with the fact that you could still be alone this Christmas, still grifting. But at the same time, you have Tommy reversing that challenge back on Ultron.

[00:22:44] You know, that you're always going to be alone and you always will be. You've never formed that connection. Never worked out how to make a connection. Exactly. At least he's saying, at least Vision is trying to do that. He may never achieve it. But that's, he, Tommy believes he will eventually get there. Yes. But Ultron can never get there. And it does come with a great line from Ultron where he says, you're a real son of a witch.

[00:23:08] And so I must say, again, the writing, very writing heavy, very script heavy, dialogue heavy. But the dialogue is great. It's so good. Yeah. And elevated by James Spader for sure. Absolutely. And it's a real treat for me. And Rory Mollick is holding his own, again, another character that's working really well with James Spader. James Spader gets all the credit because he's doing such a great job here.

[00:23:37] But everybody around him is also working really well with him. I think, you know, I love when they're having that conversation and he's saying to him, you know, just to give you an example of what Ultron is like. When you look at an apple, what do you see? He sees the component parts. He can only see the recipe, not the meal, as Ultron's take on who Vision is. And he's trying to dangle this carrot over Tommy's head. If you want to know about Vision, you ask me. I know him better than he even knows himself.

[00:24:06] And Tommy coming to the realization that Ultron's just trying to manipulate him. He has no real information to help him out. He doesn't really know Vision because this version of Vision is a brand new version of Vision who is trying and changing constantly. So, yeah, really loved these scenes. Yeah, I like that little trick, actually. It's not a trick. I don't really mean that. But I like that little sort of device that they use.

[00:24:34] Where Ultron's saying, you know, what do you see when you see an apple? And Rory, like you say, Rory's got there going, an apple. It's an apple. And then he says, but as a supercomputer, synthesized, we see the sugars, the vitamin C, whatever. And similar kind of thing comes through with the whiskey used on the whiskey as well, which is really, really good. And I like that.

[00:25:04] I like with Ultron, that aspect where, yes, I can simulate the whiskey, the malt and the rye and the water, but not the warmth or the spices. It hits the palace or the loosening of inhibitions, like the social aspect. It's just really, really well done. And I just think it's kind of a real nice image that's portrayed in this.

[00:25:29] And I wonder, you know, as well, it just reflects back on Tommy saying, well, you're always going to be alone. You won't be able to find anyone. And then you see him with Jocasta. And I just think that's a really nice aspect here in this episode. For me, it's the all of those things that you've talked about. I just love James Spader.

[00:25:55] And I'm more and more so throughout this because seeing him interact with poor Thomas. It's just such an interesting back and forth dialogue. Which then throughout the next, the rest of this episode and into the next. I don't think they're trying to create a redemptive arc for Ultron.

[00:26:23] I think what they're trying to do is make you kind of just question. Is he actually for is he as you said about that, is he going to kill? Maybe I won't kill everyone. I'll maybe leave the artists alive. Like it makes you go, OK, maybe he's not. That bad. Maybe like it's getting it's a coin flip. It's just they're trying to make him.

[00:26:53] Relatable personable like cars. Like it's just I want to go for a whiskey with Ultron. The more I read and I want to go for a pint with Ultron, the more I listen to and hear him throughout these two episodes. Because you're like, oh, we could go there and talk about genocide and then switch quickly into Yates. It will be such an interesting kind of drink.

[00:27:18] Like anyway, but all that is to say like it's seeing him monologue and dialogue throughout these these two episodes, in particular, this very first one. And from a dialogue perspective, it is just pure cinema. It is. It is a really interesting choice that they've made here, as you say, Chris, to not redeem Ultron. But to show you how his mind is working more than anything else. It's a psyche.

[00:27:48] Like, I guess his process is a psyche as to what he's doing. It's like, don't worry, everybody. He still could kill everybody on the planet. But this is what he's thinking about before he pushes the button. That's kind of what's going on, which is so interesting. Because, yes, you're so you're so right. You're so used to it. You know, that either they'll build up the exact opposite version of Iron Man to become Iron Munger. They'll battle at the end. Iron Man wins. And here it's the exact version of Vision is Ultron. The alternate version of Vision is Ultron. They will battle at the end.

[00:28:17] Ultron loses. Vision wins. But here you're going, oh, is he similar to Vision? Or is he just having a thought process? It's just a thought process. It is the ultimate psychiatrist couch here. It's just the exploration of his psyche. I think you were saying it has that great line in Vision, which goes, I've grown tired of the coin flip of your true intentions. Yes. And that's just a really nice way. Vision says, yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:43] That says to Ultron, because, you know, they're trapped in the attic in the mind space. But so, too, is Ultron. But he's basically saying, well, keep the firewall up and we're all trapped here. Release it. And you can go and save Tommy. Yeah. So, it's just really nice. But he's just, it's a great phrase. And that's the thing.

[00:29:08] I just think the quality of the writing here just really just expresses so much more than just the sum of the sentences that give. And it's just really quite, it's quite rich and visual in how it's saying what it needs to say. And I think it's really great. And I'm definitely here for that.

[00:29:30] And as the story just goes through this father, son and grandfather now tale, which will continue throughout these episodes and into the rest of the season. I do need to just do one more of them, which is when Ultron and Tommy are in the pub for the first time. He goes, well, from disdain to dyspepsia in 20 seconds. If we give it another 20 seconds, who knows, you might even begin to tolerate me. Absolutely. And it's just, love it. I can't stand you.

[00:30:00] I'm going, you make me want to puke. Ah, from disdain to dyspepsia in 20 seconds. Really good. So good. Really good. We can probably move on to our next code line in a second. But just one thing quickly to say that that goes throughout the two sections where they're recreating the meeting of Jocasta and Ultron and the meeting of Ultron and Tommy is dummy and you setting the stage around everything that's going on using Henry Lewis and Jonathan Sayre. As we mentioned before, they were in the stage play.

[00:30:30] The goes wrong show that eventually became the TV show. Very successful. But that's the kind of thing that two actors would do in those stage shows. They'd be moving the set around for comedy effect and the use of the two of them in those scenes, particularly having you played by Jonathan Sayre on the bicycle spinning the paintings around him to simulate what their trip to the Louvre looked like was fantastic. Just top quality comedy using the two of them in there. It was really, really good.

[00:30:58] But with that said, let's move on to our code line too. Yes. The mystery. Who was Joe Carrington? So hidden in the video footage that they're compiling, there's a little glitch that happens when Ultron goes to the bar and Vision realizes that within that glitch is a conversation between Jocasta and Ultron. And they decode that further to guess what happened in the meeting between the two of them.

[00:31:25] Again, really cool use of what you're seeing on screen to what these supercomputers are actually processing between them. And within the conversation, we hear who Jocasta is, where she came from, who Joe Carrington was in the past, and what she's trying to achieve effectively. So we've got lots revealed here.

[00:31:45] And Jocasta is almost your stereotypical bad guy substitute for Ultron, which is like throughout this episode and the next episode, we learn that she is a scientist gone wrong. A scientist, basically her vision was corrupted.

[00:32:15] Much like Ultron wanted to help control the world. She wanted to do the same, except she wanted to do the opposite, which is bring the machinery, the logic, the control to the humans. And again, she is then kind of your pseudo bad guy in that she wants to release these nanobots that will help control.

[00:32:44] Almost like a worker bee, queen bee. She will guide the human race to the next level. I say like it's the pseudo bad guy. There's way more to the character of Joe Carrington, and we learn all those bits. But it is so interesting when you, the assumption I had as this series was rolling on, and even throughout these episodes, is that no, no, no, Ultron is a bad guy.

[00:33:12] Ultron is the one who is going to be the evil megalomaniac and the mustache twirler. Where actually, it's Jocasta not twirling her mustache, but twirling the ends of her fake metal hair. Or, as the internet meme says, why not both, Chris? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[00:33:36] You know, we learned the history of Joe Carrington that her father had passed away from a brain illness, which inspired her to go into science to cure and help those kind of brain illnesses.

[00:33:48] And we learned, as the conversation develops throughout the two episodes, we learned that Joe used her brain scan to complete the original source code, which was Phineas Horton's source code, so that she could try and save lives of other people that had the same brain illness as her father.

[00:34:09] I wanted to kind of ask you guys about this, what you thought, because we learn, again, as the story goes on, as we hear more and more about it, that eventually, Joe Carrington succumbed to the same illness that her father had. And given that she used her own brain scan to complete the source code, do you think there was something in the brain scan that could have caused an issue with this code that she's created? And Jocasta is looking to take down the entire planet now because of what happened. She's creating vengeance.

[00:34:38] Was there something wrong within her brain when she took that scan to complete the source code that has put an illness into source code almost? What do you think? Is that a possibility? A virus with a virus. Yeah, something like that, that she's created a false source code because it was an imperfect scan of a brain that was imperfect, almost. Or it's the thing that's caused her to have this success. I mean, I don't know, to be honest.

[00:35:06] If it is, it will be the downfall. It will be used as a downfall. Okay. It will be the kind of... Backdoor entry or something. Backdoor MacGuffin of how they are able to take down Jocasta and then, or if her code is merged with Ultron's, that's how... They are able to take down Ultron. It will be something along those lines. Right. I do think it's going to...

[00:35:35] She is essentially, if we think that Ultron is the father of a lot of these AIs, she is going to be... She is the prototypical mother of all the AIs.

[00:35:52] In that, Joe Carrington was the one who fixed the human torches, the Jim Hammond prototype AI. So she is essentially the mother to the father that is Ultron, to Vision and a few others. So it is, we are getting that kind of mum-dad, grandma-granddad type of approach.

[00:36:20] But I think, to answer your question, I think there will be something made to... She's unbalanced because of a neurological kind of issue. I could see someone going, oh, wait, are you saying that just because I have X problem, a neurological problem, I'm broken? I don't think they'll kind of use that. No, no. I meant more, if you're trying to cure an illness, a brain illness, that you also have yourself,

[00:36:50] and you find out that the illness is hereditary, have you started from a poor starting point? Oh, yeah. Should she have looked for another brain to map that didn't have the illness to try and fix her illness was kind of my question. But look, it may not play out. I just thought it was interesting when they talked through the story of how she eventually died, and then they sold the code to Stark Industries in 2008, which was before the first Iron Man movie.

[00:37:16] So the whole creation of Iron Man's first AI, Jarvis, came from this source code. So all dating all the way back to Phineas Horton as well. So one thing I just quickly wanted to bring in here was just from feedback from Heather Wallace, who sent in just a message, just thought it was really interesting to talk about now. Heather says, I know Jocasta's comic book origins are different where she's built by Ultron to be his lover, but having her be the mother of the AI code is a better tie-in to her name.

[00:37:43] Jocasta originally was the queen of Thebes that inadvertently married her son Oedipus, who was abandoned as a baby to thwart the prophecy of him killing his father and marrying his mother. The reason why I mention that is because there is a little throwaway line at the end of the episode when they're trying to find out who could be involved, where Ultron says, are we missing our Agamemnon? Who is the Agamemnon here?

[00:38:09] Who is the person that could be in control behind the scenes if we're thinking of Ultron and Jocasta as being the father and mother? Who is the grandfather? Who is the real creator? So that was an interesting line that all the way connected through the episode and through Heather Wallace's feedback. So good catch there, Heather. Yeah, absolutely. No, I mean, I think this is just, again, it's just really clever.

[00:38:34] I love the whole theme around the birds with Jo Carrington. I love how she plays this out. You know, the nanobots are in the nest. I think right at the start, that whole initial flirting in the glitch between her and Ultron, and she's like, humanity has infected you, but I'm working on the cure. And she's desperate to find this key, this biometric key.

[00:39:05] But she has that lovely moment where you have Ultron who has said previously, but I wouldn't kill the artists. And she's like, but their art is primitive. You know, I can't believe I tried to save them with this technology. You know, I need to make them, or I was thinking I needed to make the synthetics more human when in fact it's making the humans more machine-like.

[00:39:35] But this difference between the starlings that murmured to me and whispered me until it was what I needed to do versus the ravens, the murder of ravens and crows that pecked from me, i.e. her colleagues who stole all the information.

[00:40:01] And, you know, it's just the way it all comes together with, you know, come round to mine and together we can murder the world. And it's just, I love the symbolism of the ravens and the crows, the starlings. And even with the single nanobot, she's kind of like, this little sparrow won't be able to do anything, but add it to my nest and the starlings, the murmuration, and you have something truly working collectively together. Yeah.

[00:40:31] Rather than trying to be destroyed by, you know, and pecked by these murderous crows. So all of this to me was like, I just really, really enjoyed that through line through it. I also think like the history of it, I like how she's all really certain. And there's a moment where Ultron kind of says, how was your body, your consciousness digitized? And you have this moment from where she says, but there is something,

[00:41:01] there's an anger that I can't place. There's something missing. So that's the mystery here, which I think is really interesting across these two episodes. Who is it? Who's the Agamemnon? Yes. Who is the Agamemnon? Whether there's a moment where it's kind of maybe foreshadowed, I'm not too sure in Madripoor,

[00:41:26] because as soon as you have this moment between Ultron, it then goes to the client's voice coming through the TV in Madripoor. So maybe it's something to do with the client, but equally... Well, you'd assume the client is the person behind it all because they're not revealing who it is. No, I agree. We don't know who that is, of course, yes. Exactly. And at the moment, it's really focused around vision.

[00:41:56] The Ultron Jocosta is really interesting how it's playing out. I do also like the romancing of Jocosta in that simulation with the Louvre, just going back to that, and it's kind of watched by this vomitous group of synthetics where Edith and Friday and Dummy and you are all kind of like, ugh, what's going on here? Yeah, yeah.

[00:42:22] But as you say, even just the reveal of actual Ultron and actual Jocosta having a snog, the two robots, that is horrifying. Yeah, yeah. I think Friday also says he doesn't just want to escape, he wants to elope, sort of suggesting that their relationship is getting really, really sort of together and there is a moment as well that I kind of, it's almost, the cut and thrust between Jocosta and Ultron

[00:42:51] does kind of turn into synthetic BDSM, I think, here, where it's like... Is that just metal workshop? No, exactly, because she tries to sort of poison him out with a code and he goes, well, I'm an older code, I've seen everything, you know, there's not much you can do to me. But I want to get to know you. And she's like, I want to be known, but it will be painful. And he's like, then hurt me.

[00:43:20] And he's just like, okie dokie. Yeah. Should I be watching this, mummy? Yeah. A million squirming parents as their kid is watching this. I don't get what they mean. Can you... But I just thought it was really well done between Jocosta and Ultron. Yeah. Well, between James Spader, Anthony and Miller.

[00:43:47] I think the two of them are just working so well together here. I mean, the whole cast is, this is why I'm just kind of so effusive about it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the cast, the dialogue and sort of the stylizing of it all is really, really good. And what I really love, it's plans within plans within plans. You know, Ultron's going in with this insurance that he has where he scanned the face that she needs.

[00:44:16] And he's incorporated in his code that she can't get out even though she's using a technique to try and get a virus inside him. You know, I love that there's plans within plans within plans. It's really, really cool. And that kind of leads to the final and only decision that Vision thinks he has to get out of his own head, I guess, and save his son. Which is that they have to use the firewall escape. They have to drop all firewalls.

[00:44:42] And when you think about it, this is basically how you restore Ultron to his full power. When I watched it the first time, I was kind of going, what do they mean that Ultron's now able to get out and you won't be able to get him back in? You know, the genie's out of the bottle, basically. That is literally what happened in Age of Ultron when Ultron got access to the internet. He was able to travel from body to body to body, gathering data as he went, and effectively almost take down the entire planet.

[00:45:11] Because that's how powerful he was. And here they're saying, if we drop the firewall and keep him inside, we're fine. If we don't, he gets out into the world and he has his full power back. Do you trust yourself to be able to allow Ultron out into the world? And they believe there's no other choice. They have to drop the firewall. And now Ultron is free. Yeah, I mean, I do like Ultron when he says, well, you found your missing code. I need to find mine.

[00:45:40] And I think it's at the start of then episode six where you have Ultron in the network, the World Wide Web, whatever. And he's like, where are you? And it's just in that, like in the Age of Ultron, it's like, where are you? He's searching for Jocasta and he finds her and it's like second dates, effectively. Absolutely. And she goes, oh, the horrible Wi-Fi rent here as he arrives. Look what the Wi-Fi dragged in.

[00:46:09] That's the one? Yeah, exactly. That's much better than what I remembered. Yeah, look what the Wi-Fi dragged in. Yeah, it's so nicely done, all of that. And even then, yeah, that's when Friday also kind of goes after Ultron and into that network. Yeah. When that happened, I was wondering, oh, okay, is this going to be the death of another one of the AIs? Because we've had the death of Jarvis. So I'm glad when she finally turned back up again.

[00:46:38] But even at one point where it's like, has anyone heard anything from Friday? I was like, okay, so maybe they're going to get picked off one by one, like I was thinking after episode one. But no, she does survive, which is all good as well. Yeah. And yeah, that kind of leaves us with, that left us at the end of our code line number two with Vision on the way, waking up on the plane to Madripoor. AKA Pooh. AKA Pooh, yes.

[00:47:07] But that amazing view over the city of Madripoor, which is such a central location in the comic books for all the crime and scum and villainy, it is that Mos Eisley of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, really. I've been here a few times before in Falcon and the Winter Soldier and in Wolverine and Deadpool. Yep. As well. So it always brings with it that idea of who are they going to meet when they're on the streets of Madripoor.

[00:47:36] Because there is so many characters. Like, you have the opportunity to bring in, in the MCU right now, the power broker. Baron Zemo. It is the hive of scum and villainy. Just pulling in the Star Wars reference, as you said. So it's that kind of, you could get anyone. But we don't. We don't get, there's a cameo that we can chat about.

[00:48:02] We do get someone very surprising in there, but let's move it along to our Codeline number three to talk all about that. It is the Madripoor standoff. Because ultimately what we have here is the vision with Lisa, who was Tommy's grifter at arms.

[00:48:25] And you have the paladin who has kidnapped Thomas and is looking to get the exchange between Thomas for the vision. I think the one thing I really like here is just how, like I really like the character of the paladin. But I like this kind of side of him as well, which is like he can't get past his own code.

[00:48:51] Which is like really good with, you know, his own coding just effectively means he just defaults to keep doing what he's doing, even though the client's already terminated the contract. And I just really enjoy that kind of notion here where he's just like a Jack Russell, you know, and just can't let go, can't give it up. And even though he shouldn't care. Exactly.

[00:49:21] I know. I absolutely adored this, this kind of sequence, starting with Lisa and kind of jibing and jabbing vision kind of for being the goody goody two shoes. And she's already on and found her mark and trying to get money. And there's just that that that's a cameo as well, by the way, I found out today. Yes.

[00:49:46] From watching somebody who's a guy from the Impactful Jokers, he's been in all of Terry Metallus's shows. Yeah. Excellent. Weirdly playing the same character. Yeah. The same character name. Apparently, if you put all the stories that he's talking about when he's introduced in his little cameos, we put them all together. There is a story. I think it's Dane is the character name. So it's the Dane cinematic universe where he has these stories that are constantly going on. He's interacting with Metallus's characters.

[00:50:14] So an interesting cameo, but not a fan of a Practical Jokers. So I didn't recognize it. No, neither did I. Until I saw it pop up in my feed today. So, yeah. But look, I enjoy how this kind of gets us to the table with Paladin. Yeah. And we learned that Paladin was blipped. Yes, we do. And that is his driving force to a degree, which is he blipped.

[00:50:38] He came back and he's decided not to reconcile with his family because he wants to keep them safe from his activities, specifically his daughter. Yes. Where we find, again, Vision is a walking quantum supercomputer. Mm-hmm. He knows all this. Like, he got this information.

[00:50:59] And you can kind of see, whereas if we think that over the last couple of episodes, the more, the white vision we have started with is growing. He is maturing, evolving, etc. Here we can see more that OG white vision who is the ship of Theseus, who is that just a blank slate. Very, very, Paul Bettany plays a blind man out here.

[00:51:28] Which is, he just, he's so deadpan and emotionless when he delivers like, oh, I know about your daughter. Yeah. Like, too. He's so threatening. Like, you're threatening my son. Yeah. And, you know, the way he explains it to Paladin as well, where Paladin's going, you don't know her at all. You don't know me at all. And then he lists out where she works, how long it takes her to get to work, how she drives, you know, how early she gets to work every day.

[00:51:55] And then he says to him, and you don't know what I could do with that. Maybe a traffic light might fail on her journey to work. You know, that kind of stuff where you're going, oh, wow. He's really thought of all the possibilities here of how he could murder the daughter of this person across the table from him. Yeah, Paladin could pull the trigger and hurt his son or hurt Vision, but look what Vision could also do in the blink of an eye as well. Really interesting. Absolutely.

[00:52:21] But, I mean, I like the fact that it's in response to, you know, Paladin. The Paladin is pushing here where he effectively lays it out on the table. You can see Vision saying, don't do this. Yes, as he says how Vision, you know, was repurposed by sword to kill your mother. And that he tells Tommy that straight out. And he just says, WandaVision.

[00:52:49] And Thomas here has no notion of what WandaVision is. And I like how you get the little bit of the WandaVision theme coming in. Yes, that was really good. And, you know, and you have Tommy asking Vision about WandaVision sort of right towards the end.

[00:53:06] And he says, well, you know, Wanda Maximoff was so filled with the grief or the loss of Vision that she enslaved an entire town and became unrecognizable to herself. WandaVision is that grief on display. Exactly. And so it's just really nice little tie back. Absolutely. To our commentary on like episode six of WandaVision where we realized it was a show about grief. Yeah.

[00:53:36] And the entire phase six of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, phase five, whichever phase that that began, which was all about grief and all about characters grieving. Right. So what is the Marvel Cinematic Universe? But time to grieve for the characters you've lost in the previous phase. Exactly. I mean, ah, well done. I think the other thing here between. Had to get out really fast because John was about to talk over me.

[00:53:57] No, I think the other thing here with Vision and Paladin with the meeting in Madripoor is just how certain things that are a little bit awkward. Like, you know, at this moment we think that Tommy has a bomb in his arm that's motion sensitive and all that. So we can't use the speed. Basically, welcome to Madripoor kid. He says, you know, I think Tommy calls it his murder van. How many of these have you got?

[00:54:28] So it all feels quite threatening, but it kind of becomes less so as you go through. And even with then Vision with Lisa, that kind of relationship, like you were saying, Chris, you know, you get the sense he's or she gets the sense. Well, you don't approve of my methods, my grifting effectively here. And he's like, well, you should have stuck around.

[00:54:54] And she's well, don't blame me for, you know, don't project the fact that you don't want to be a part of his life. Exactly. I didn't want to get blamed for leaving him if we were to have a relationship. But, you know, Vision's here. I think he just shouts, I guess, into the sky saying, I'm having a profoundly difficult time navigating teenagers with this conversation with Lisa. Yeah. And like, it is really interesting. And I like that. Yeah.

[00:55:22] Since the whole series is about the father son treatment of these characters, what she's effectively saying is we didn't have a relationship. We're just mates. If I do leave in the future, I'll just be a person that left. If you leave, if you leave him, it'll be his father again, who will have walked away a second time in his life. The other father figure that Tommy has walking away, which is much more important to Thomas as a character. So. So, yeah, I thought it was a really interesting conversation with Lisa. And it's also very cool to have a Welsh actress in this show.

[00:55:52] They've represented all the corners of Great Britain. Just need a Northern Irish character now. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think. Banshee coming in for the last two episodes. That was my banshee. All right. Take it down an octave. There was a slight delay, but we both did the exact same thing. I love it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:17] So I kind of like these kind of interactions between Paladin and Tommy, but also then with Lisa and Vision. Yes. And I like how it plays out to be, I guess, maybe the softer side of Paladin. Maybe it's because he does have a daughter that is ultimately being threatened by Vision here. But I kind of like how he used. They've reached the common ground. Yeah. They've reached the common ground.

[00:56:40] What I really also love about these scenes in Madripoor is kind of similar to the Jocasta and Ultron meetings where each of them have a plan within a plan within a plan. Paladin is constantly telling everybody he has a plan within a plan. He has fail safes upon fail safes. How many do you think he could possibly have here? You know, he has a gun pointed at Tommy's head. But he also has the ability to call in the drones. But he also has the ability of other insurances, everything else that's going on.

[00:57:07] And then we find out that actually, while Vision has been holding his attention, Edith has gotten inside the AI system that we find out is where the handler is stored. Diane Morgan's character, the handler, is actually the AI within the glasses that Paladin has been wearing. If we didn't catch it beforehand. And then we learn that actually Paladin has been treating his AI really badly.

[00:57:35] He doesn't like giving it any kind of updates to the outside world. She was originally intending to be an AI that would just help people plan their holidays or kids to finish their projects in school. That's all she really wanted. Well, isn't that what, let's face it, because it comes up, she gets her own little thing up which says tactical AI. It's like weapon deployment snark. I do like that.

[00:58:01] So it's all this, which is like, I just wanted to help students with their midterm papers and plan their trip to Cancun. Which, isn't that what we all use AI for in the end? You're saying you don't use yours to take down governments and kill people? No. Oh, I just mean that. We're not allowed to use it. But I do love, again, you use Diane Morgan when you've got her.

[00:58:27] You use her to deliver these lines where she's talking about, you know, he's got me in an AI farm in Kazakhstan, powered off the land, and the sheep keep eating the power cables, isn't it? And then you see her walking over the window and pulling the blinds, which don't work. She's like, even these don't work, you know? And then Edith espouses the amazing world that's out there in their AI space that's been granted to them in Vision Land,

[00:58:53] where they have a 125-room building to live in. I love the joke as well, where as she's kind of releasing the AI, she says, well, what's your name? And she's like, api-tactical.m510-90 underscore forward slash asterisk m596284. And Edith's like, go on then.

[00:59:22] That's really good. That's just so good. Yeah. I don't want to repeat your name. I really enjoyed that. So farewell handler. The handler is gone from the Paladin's glasses, so he has no AI support anymore because he treated his AI badly. See? That's what we've all been saying. Always say, always thank your AI when you've booked your trip to Cancun. Thank you. Thank you. I'm not an AI. But yes, Dan Morgan, great fun on the show.

[00:59:52] A really interesting, fun presence. And nice that she had an interaction with at least one other actor face-to-face. Yeah, absolutely. Exactly. I think it's a great character to have. I'll agree. And also tells the handler about the opportunities of doing indoor parachuting when you get our division's AI palace as well. Well, it's great that she's been released into the network because it allows for there to be a new series of Cunk On, which there will be. There will.

[01:00:21] Cunk On Cinema coming to Netflix in November. So that's where she's been released to, I guess. Some great entertainment industry synergy where Dan Morgan comes out of the TV show here and then they release the trailer for Cunk On Cinema coming November 15th to Netflix worldwide. Great stuff. Go watch it. I can't wait to watch that. Anyway, I think that's enough of the start of the Model Poor standoff because they're no longer stood off. Are they? Well, they're stood up.

[01:00:51] Yes. I think we should go on to our code line number four because they become, I guess, reluctant allies? Mm-hmm. Yes, code line number four. Ooh, this is our cameo and it gets its own point. The new old bounty hunter arrives. Yes. Raza Alwaza. Yes. I'm not sure whether we're pronouncing that correctly. I don't remember from the original Iron Man movie

[01:01:18] whether he was actually ever named as Raza Alwaza. I remember him as Raza, but he was the man that pushed Tony Stark in the cave. Yes. Allowing or effectively creating the first ever Iron Man when he was in that cave. So Iron Man is Raza's fault. He is effectively the furthest possible cameo that you can get in the Marvel Cinematic Universe here all the way. He's the catalyst for the MCU. Yes.

[01:01:46] If Iron Man is the spark that ignited it all, he is the flicker that ignited the spark. You know, there's only one tiny thing they just had to sort out to allow this actor to appear or this character to appear again. And the way they've sorted it out, they've called him a former high-level member of the Ten Rings. When back in that original movie,

[01:02:15] he was classed as the Ten Rings. People thought he was going to become the Mandarin in future. We learned all about that in Shang-Chi. We learned all about that in Iron Man 3 when Trevor pretended to be the Mandarin. But this was just a guy who was a member of the Ten Rings organization quite high up. So we didn't represent them. We'd also heard about the Ten Rings a couple of times throughout the series to prepare you that Raza was coming back here because they're the ones that gave Paladin his armor. So there is a connection there

[01:02:44] between the Ten Rings and a lot of these mercenaries that are out there in the world. Yeah. And this is fun. Not only did we have a battery acid cauterization earlier in the series, now we have Vision cauterizing Paladin's wound. Yes, we do. And we have a shared bonding experience here for them to survive, that they must join up, team up.

[01:03:13] And I have to say, I actually enjoyed this. This, we had just, previous episode, got a lot of talky-talky. This leads into then a talky-talky followed by a fighty-fighty. And I really enjoyed this. This is a well-put-together, well-choreographed fight, showing off quite a lot of the different abilities of Vision, showing off Paladins. Todd Stashwick kicks ass here. Yes, he does.

[01:03:43] Like, in that, like, as a man just with two guns. Yeah, but it feels like those moments in comic books and even in the most recent Spider-Man movie where you have Punisher fighting alongside a super-powered individual where he's going around shooting people in the head and the super-powered guy is using his superpowers to take care of people around him. You know, here you had Vision using his powers to punch and kick and fight. Yeah. And you had, yeah, Paladin shooting people in the head.

[01:04:12] And that's his ability. Yeah, he's a good shot. He certainly is. Yeah, absolutely. The bit I liked about this certainly most, I mean, I loved the fighting and the action and so on, but it was kind of the Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid kind of vibe of it where they're both behind the counter, you know, against all odds. But here I really enjoyed where Vision is wounded and Edith comes in and he goes,

[01:04:42] what's the damage report? And Paladin's like going, damage report? Because he's wounded as well. He's been shot. And he just, there's a nice little, you know, Star Trek reference here where he says, there's a breach in the hull, Captain. So that I just thought was really neat that they did that. Yeah. I also liked the Paladin's murder van with Tommy and Lisa were in there because Raz has got kind of a jammer,

[01:05:10] so they can't kind of release the Paladin's drones to kind of help sort of save them. Yeah. They've got to kind of go over the top, so to speak. So they're trying to sort of get into his van. Yes. And it just all locks up on them. I absolutely love this. There's just a good bit of comedy here because Tommy and Lisa think they're being so smart breaking into Paladin's van. And then it's the message that comes over, the video from Paladin saying, oh, well, intruders,

[01:05:36] I'll be removing the oxygen from the van so that I can get my stuff back. Basically, you've probably seen too much since you got inside my van. Unless you can answer this riddle, there's no riddle at all. Of course there's no riddle. That's the one I found. And then even just the choice of having Edith come in and it was like... A little 8-bit Edith.

[01:06:03] 8-bit chip tune kind of like triumphant music. I was like, oh, that's fun. Fab. Absolutely. I did like the drones. Yes. Again, seeing them, the three of them come out and seeing how they... The smiley face to the sad face. Yes. Seeing the smiley faces and the kind of... The sad faces as it kind of shoots people. Wah, wah, wah, wah. Yeah.

[01:06:31] And knowing that Edith is in the chair doing that kind of fighter pilot. Exactly. Yes. Yes. So much fun. Playing it like a video game. Yeah. Yeah. Paladin, they have a cool little battle at the end. A good fight between the two of them at the end and Raza's taken out. So he doesn't get his mark either. No. And Paladin's left with no vision

[01:07:00] and Raza doesn't get vision either. No. But we do get the client interrupting... Exactly. ...everything. Because he effectively powers down Madripoor by the looks of it. And kind of interrupts proceedings. So it's kind of interesting. We kind of hear the client obviously with a modulated voice but also this shadowy look of a silhouette with a hat on.

[01:07:29] I don't know. I was thinking Inspector Cluso or Go-Go Gadget on. Something like that. Inspector Gadget. So it would be interesting again to see that but he kind of says... He kind of introduces himself to Vision and says... You know, confirms he's the one that's been hunting him but also the one who can end your suffering. So I'm kind of... It's very intriguing. He says you want your heart back I can give you your heart back. Yeah.

[01:08:00] It's a really interesting thing this show has this kind of thread of hats going through it. Doesn't it? Right the way from the first episode where we had Ultron going I'm a hat guy now. I saw you wearing that hat outside. I don't know what my type of hat is. And then when we have that moment in this episode where Ultron's about to walk out the door Vision catches him before he leaves and he hands over the top hat that he... I think Vision used that in WandaVision. That was his magician's hat. Oh yeah. It wasn't at the top hat. And he hands it over to Ultron

[01:08:29] as he leaves telling him you know, go get in the world take the hat with you. And now we have the client here on screen silhouetted with his... A different hat. It's not a top hat but he has a hat as well. So it's a weird background touch there, isn't it? I do hope that that top hat comes back into play. Right? In that that was a small bit of code from Vision as a way to track Ultron. Like that. Because he does take the hat with him all the way to Jocasta. Mm-hmm.

[01:08:59] Or her spotty Wi-Fi home. Yeah. And I hope that kind of comes back to play in that fun way. Yeah. That's a really cool point. Yeah. Definitely. Speaking of Jocasta let's get on to our final code line. Yes. Code line number five. That did sound like Mambo number five the way you said that. Do, do, do. Code line number five. Nanobots released is our final code line.

[01:09:29] Yeah. We talked a little bit about the meeting again of Jocasta and Vision now at the grave of Joe Carrington or the tomb of Joe Carrington or what's the modern name for tomb that's an escape. Mausoleum. Mausoleum. That's the one. That's it. So, and that's where these drones are being kept in the nest. The drones that Jocasta is trying to discover and uncover. But here she shows Ultron that there is one nanobot available

[01:09:58] and what damage could one nanobot do? Quite a lot. Absolutely. Yeah. The two of them appear in Madripoor and send off this single murderous nanobot. And I love that as she's sending it off Jocasta goes this is not just a test of the nanobot. It's also testing Ultron's faith in her if she decides to use this on one of what Ultron considers his family

[01:10:28] is could he be a turncoat is kind of the way he says it. So he stops her before she puts it into Tommy and allows it to go into Lisa. So we have a nanobot controlled Lisa. So this is one I don't know I should. Lisa is not a character that I'm aware of like in terms of a well-known like she's Psylocke or something like that a well-known Avenger

[01:10:56] like level Marvel character. So I'm interested I don't know any Welsh Marvel characters I must admit. Yeah. I just want to see them speak in Welsh and all the letterboxes would just go on for a whole page. Yes, absolutely. And she's just saying okay let's go. I think the question I have is I wonder what the nanobot will continue to morph her into. Like

[01:11:25] does she now become partially synthetic because that is Jocasta's plan. it is to introduce the machine to the human. Yes. So is she now half machine half human much like her love interest who is technically all human but has the psyche of a witch and an android synthetic as a parent. Or at least

[01:11:55] a witch's impression of what an android synthetic is. Yes, exactly. That gets really hard. That's really hard to explain what are you? Good question. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Well at least we do get to see the product of what happens when a nanobot takes over one human so that we can see if those nanobots that she has the millions and trillions of them that she has inside the nest if they get released what would happen to the planet we have it taken out on one individual human so we have

[01:12:25] Lisa versus Vision in this kind of cool battle isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And again that's how you can not that they need to but every now and again we do Marvel do like defaulting to similar powered hero versus similar powered villain that's kind of what you can get here. But this was more to tell you what would happen if you had an entire city of humans turned into what Jocasta wants to do. I love the red eyes on Lisa. I love

[01:12:53] the digital markings that go all the way down her face. It looked like a circuit board. Exactly. That was the piece I was like that's a good choice. I think as well it's that realisation of Joe Carrington and JaCosta's story here. There's the church there's the tomb and there's the tech which we kind of find out is the nest and again I think it's sort of

[01:13:23] the coming back to this one sparrow can only do so much. It needs to be put with the other starlings so that it can all act as one. I think there's really nice after it's been done Ultron calls her the queen and his queen and it just nods back to right at the start where in a sense

[01:13:53] he undercuts that because it's when she's given him a paper cut effectively to introduce the virus and he says what a weird thing to because he's an old school code but here it's realizing that back to her like you say

[01:14:23] his faith has been tested and he's on board and ultimately here she seals it with something really interesting which is she's now able to pass over him getting the ability to taste whiskey because she's provided him with her memories exactly not only her memories her feelings although the other important thing here is yes he has shown his faith but he does say not the boy so

[01:14:54] there is a condition on it in a sense but mainly because he says I don't think you'll be prepared for how vision would come after both you and me with all his force I don't think you want that at this moment so there's that kind of thing where he will go along with her plan and in fact it aligns quite well with his plan of killing everybody that he wants dead so he's like wow you've done a really good job here it's better than the job I was doing trying to kill everybody on

[01:15:41] enjoy this because right now we have vision with a body and he's back in control jacosta with her mind and her body but right now ultron is still just a program he has no physical form so I am interested to see how they solve that in the next episode or is it that jacosta is in the real world ultron is in the digital world and that is where we will get some form

[01:16:10] of Edith dummy and you and Friday go after ultron and we have vision going after jacosta in the real world because now we also have tommy going after lisa that's how you start to piece these together and poor old paladin mopping up the rest the grunts but also remember the discussion that was had there when Ultron was talking to jacosta we mentioned earlier on when Ultron was talking to jacosta and said how did you move your essence from

[01:16:40] joe carrington into this body and she doesn't know when she finds out will she be able to do the same for Ultron into the outside world body so I presume next episode is going to be a little bit of the investigation as to how joe carrington got from joe carrington to jacosta say joe carrington one more time it feels very falcon crest actually but joe carrington

[01:17:10] becoming jacosta in this tv show makes a lot of sense from writers point of view just want to point out we didn't mention earlier on that the real world name for paladin is Paul Dennings which if you say really fast sounds like so I'm not too sure whether they thought about that so Paul Dennings became paladin this ancient name over the course of many generations of paladin his real name is Paul Denning before he took that persona on after he

[01:17:40] came back from the blip I don't know whether that works outside of the writers room that probably doesn't know and just also coming back quickly like Chris you said that Ultram isn't sort of physical yet at the moment but I do like the thing that you know after that sharing of the whiskey again from Jocosta and she you know she before he tastes it says it will be different this time and she asks how do you feel and he

[01:18:10] says real so there is a change like incorporating those memories but I have this anger and love that I can't place to him saying well how did you get become digitized because like you say he wants to become also in a sense physical so I like I just think it's all really

[01:18:41] nicely conceived all of this it does make me sing inside I was certainly singing you make me feel mighty real when Ultron said it makes me feel real that could have been the lowering of innovations from a glass of whiskey though of course yes indeed I think that's the end of our code line any notes that we haven't mentioned anything

[01:19:12] nothing for me I think we chatted through most cool cool one line specifically I really liked in the episode that we didn't call out was just in the discussion between Ultron and Jocasta when he was asking her you know effectively about her backstory he says killer victim human synth where do we start with your story I love that line and she says no daughter is where we start that's what inspired

[01:19:42] the rounds over on twitter first spotted by mcu seen over on twitter was that apparently the watcher can be seen in madripoor that scene where the client appears on all the tv screens right on the right hand side about 32 minutes into the episode you can see the eyes of the watcher similar to the eyes of the watcher appeared in daredevil born again but this time terry metallis responded to the poster saying good eye or should I

[01:20:12] say good eyes so seemingly confirming that the watcher has had his cameo in this season of the MCU so we kind of have suspected that the watcher is the harbinger of the merging of all the different strands of the MCU as everything goes on we're still in the central MCU universe but we're about to end off in doomsday at the end of this

[01:20:58] call I got quite excited seeing the old eyes it's such an easy thing to throw into an episode isn't it find a black screen throw up two white eyes and see if anybody notices it as as it

[01:21:31] I think it will be the right thing and the right call to make the Jeffrey right thing to do excellent that's it for notes I think yes let's finish up with our defense here Chris do defend Vision Quest episodes five and six I am not going to surprise anyone yeah I really really enjoyed this one I'll go back to and make myself sound stupid one more time from a

[01:22:01] first episode of this double act which is very talky talky to a progression into a talky talky into a fighty fighty and ending on such a high it is a very well done kind of double act of two episodes written incredibly well choreographed incredibly well and then performed and I can only I call it a

[01:22:30] performance because when we talk about the Ultron and Jocasta double dialogue that goes on and it is we joked about it being BDSM we joked about how it dripped with schwagger um and sexual tension yes yeah exactly and just so amazingly done um so yeah I completely defend these two episodes well done to Nia Miller for uh actually

[01:23:00] kissing someone with that weird ass beard that uh jane spader has grown i actually feel sorry for jane spader's wife uh throughout this time that he was filming this show so well done to you yes derek do you defend these episodes of vision quest absolutely yeah totally defend these two episodes really really enjoying the show to enjoying the creative leaps they're taking um it's so interesting uh someone pointed out the other day

[01:23:30] that there's a moment back in one division when her mind breaks and reality starts to break in that's when we have the been a constant theme throughout the three parts of this show and it's it's playing out in another different way here but

[01:24:00] within the same echoes within the same rhyming scheme of the three shows so there's definitely lots done in this universe that makes these shows really interesting to watch all back to back to back um this is another great each week yeah um so we're only gonna get one episode next week and then one the week after but hey that's all right we can we can slow down for one week

[01:24:30] yeah uh john how about yourself do you defend these two episodes of vision quest yeah i really do i do defend um episode five and episode six of vision quest for firewall i'd give it five ultron biographies out of five and it's one thing we didn't mention but i do really enjoy that moment where he's kind of comes out from the sort of meeting with tommy at the pub and he's like uh finally some people

[01:25:00] with something valid some valid opinions um and he's basically talking about himself his true echo chamber all five absolutely um um so i i really i really enjoyed um firewall i loved how it um it just played out with the um the glitches the black and white the color and the exploration of the first date between ultron and jocosta

[01:25:30] all just really really nice and i think that then going into episode six deadlock i'd give that five cancelled codes out of five um i like how that sort of pulls back in wandavision pulls back in the paladin it brings madripoor in as you say chris that other dimension in sense of you know the writing is just fantastic across these episodes for me but you know just a little bit of action going on here with um

[01:25:59] raza alwaza um yep coming in um sort of whole you know the the new bounty hunter i'm sure we're gonna find out that's pronounced a very different way it clearly is i know i know it is but i can't raza alwaza or something yeah it is it clearly is but i can't get over the fact that i'm a natural poet i can't but i just i'm a natural poet and you don't even know it raza alwaza i should have

[01:26:29] been in the happy mondays or something um yeah no i mean it's just uh it's just really nice how this then sort of plays out and again a further deepening of that relationship between ultron and jacosa which i just i just find fascinating i just think again in particular uh tania miller and james spader superb but equally paul betony todd stashwick you

[01:26:58] know those exchanges and then the exchanges with rory molika and lauren morace as lisa you know they're all just really great interactions all superbly layering these stories so these were two great episodes for me so yeah absolutely defend uh these two episodes and we also had the further deepening of dummy in you um to be to give some real direction real thought to solve a problem in this episode chris going back to what you said uh

[01:27:28] last week about the development of these ai characters that they would never have gotten um before if they weren't allowed to be in the world solving problems you know uh this is true genitive ai right uh learning ai so uh good stuff um where are we going now uh looks like we're going for a pint yes absolutely i am a little parched um but we are off to the old selkie in for the vision quest pub quiz

[01:27:58] so welcome back through the doors fellow quizzers fellow defenders we have another two questions for your contemplation uh for episode five the question is what two drinks does ultron order after kidnapping thomas shepherd and taking him to the pub one of these is my uh my general order well it might be another one another one of them is i don't trust

[01:28:27] an adult that drinks this but anyway there we go yes what two drinks does ultron order after kidnapping thomas shepherd and taking him to the pub fantastic uh question six john question six is what is the name of the cafe in madriapur where the paladin has arranged the prisoner exchange with a vision interesting one too yes and hopefully you'll see it yeah yes i don't

[01:28:57] think i did catch it it was just through the the spoken word shall we say okay yeah yeah um but there is a sign up there and there is uh it is in dialogue so you'll catch it if you're if you look at that soon again you're sharp enough yes john question one more time yes absolutely what is the name of the cafe in madriapur where the paladin has arranged the prisoner exchange with vision excellent that's question five and six of only two more to go answers on a postcard follow defenders not at all

[01:29:26] at the end of the season when you've got all the correct answers email them into us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com and you could be in with a chance of getting your hands on some vision quest goodies as i said two of which hopefully will be vision and ultron funko pops which we have in our house right now yes and if you do put them on the back of a postcard they probably won't get to us no exactly that's why the email is better we have no address we live in a cardboard box in matchup or we live in someone's mindscape

[01:29:57] with 115 rooms well two or three well that is the same place that you said all of your feedback and your thoughts about vision quest to that email address feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or over our facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tv podcast industries or of course on our discord group as well but we have some feedback in first up we got an email in from william clouds and a voicemail we'll start with william's voicemail

[01:30:25] oh dear i just uh i just started recording and i realize now that i just did it testing the microphone okay i'll do it one more time just say i have loved listening to your commentaries on uh the various marvel shows in particular over the last couple of years um just been great stuff to fall asleep to and uh uh dulcet tones coming from ireland are very much appreciated and especially i guess the uh very intelligent commentary

[01:30:54] i had one thing i wanted to say which was i think i'm enjoying the series the marvel series much more than i'm enjoying the films these days i mean i think the film quality has been a bit variable the spider-man one was was was very good um but uh you know wanda vision i get through all along and vision quest just being you know excellent loki has been

[01:31:21] excellent um some of the others not so bad uh also it's only secret was really which was um you know very much below standard so i just wonder what you thought maybe it's the comic book format sort of translates better into series than it often does into films um nothing more to say really um love what you guys are doing it's been a great pleasure to keep

[01:31:50] listening i'm william clouds bye bye thanks so much for the feedback william glad you've been listening along with us yeah absolutely i do feel now that we have to uh take an opportunity about halfway through our podcast to go wake up we've got more to say just to startle you back awake to hear our more dulcet tones as we continue yes exactly i just want i just want if there's more people listening to our dulcet tones going asleep i just want to sneak in random alarms into the edit

[01:32:20] just random just a random like a random like velociraptor from the original jurassic park kind of thing we are the equivalent of jungle sounds or whales not jungle music because that would keep you awake all night it's like dory but a really interesting point you make there william about uh about whether um comics are more suited to tv or to movies they absolutely are like comics are really suited to a

[01:32:49] weekly format or a monthly format you know something that tells a story in the long form like you have uh in in tv um we're now down to shows that are only six or eight episodes long and then they disappear for three or four years so they feel a little bit more like movies than uh than uh movies did or the tv did sorry in the past um and i'm not sure when you look back on things like you know i'm famously not a massive fan of the arrow verse you know uh because it went on too long and was very repetitive um i think we have a massive budget here for an

[01:33:19] mcu show um and they've also got great writers in the writers room writing a great story that's taking its source from comic books and they're doing a really good job here and if they kept this kind of quality up yes i'd love to see loads more comic book tv shows uh than movies and the fact that we only have had what we haven't had a marvel movie this year other than spider-man um which is still a little bit outside of the mcu is still connected but not completely connected um the next one we've got is as

[01:33:49] doom today so um yeah like i'm not i'm not let down by the marvel movies um i'm really enjoying the the mcu tv shows and i'm really concerned about the fact that we're getting less and less of them because the budget to do them uh is not going to be there in the future um yeah so i'm absolutely loving it i'm totally agree agree with you that when it's done really well it works really well on tv yeah yeah yeah absolutely for me it's just the time it's the you the difference

[01:34:17] between a two and a half three hour film or a six to seven and a half hour tv show that that gives you way more time to to explore the characters to explore the people to give scenes time to breathe um and i think that's always going to be the difference um in my opinion and i think if you were to ask me would i like a eight hour spider-man

[01:34:47] show of course yeah um but if you ask me would i like an eight hour fantastic four probably but again i don't know there's going to be some characters yeah it's probably any so basically i would always i would prefer tv yeah over um and again it's just as derek said it's the budget thing and also there is a reason why we're called tv podcast industries rather than marvel movie podcast industries or something like that or movie there is because we love tv we love that longer form and

[01:35:16] spending more time with the characters than you get in in your two-hour movie as as chris said you know i like to think of it if you're a big marvel comics fan they have their big event where everything crosses over every year that works really well for movies where you can get everybody in from loads of corners of the universe and then you can explore those corners by having tv shows i think that works really well and marvel have gotten it right at times and gotten it wrong at other times uh here they're getting it really right with the tv shows it would be fantastic if we

[01:35:45] had vision or wanda appearing back in movies yeah and a reference to their tv shows but that doesn't seem to happen very well either and i think like at the start of kind of you know phase one you you had the three tony stark you had the three captain america which also introduced over the course of it winter soldier and had shield always in the background of it in some way with nick fury and so on so

[01:36:13] almost working light tv shows just over a longer period of time but ultimately getting in maybe nine up to nine hours yeah worth of content but i i i would agree i think um you know it it really um fits with with the tv format ultimately yeah absolutely uh william also sent a follow-up message saying one of the things of substance um i have not seen any spoilers as far as i know but it's

[01:36:43] hard to shake the feeling of giving this is all tony stark related tech in the vision and jacosta that dr doom will finally appear as the animus behind the great white vision hunt oh interesting theory and who the client could possibly be i would say lower the expectations that we would see uh robert danny jr as a cameo on the tv show and the cameo that we've got here tying it back to the first iron man with uh with raza is really interesting in

[01:37:12] this episode but i'd say we're probably not going to see a dr doom cameo in the tv show it'd be awesome if it if it did i'm not entirely sure now i i guess i mean it does feel like phineas horton um and that kind of the original kind of vision i guess and certainly with that yeah with with that painting it feels like there's something connected there but at the same time i really like the the notion

[01:37:41] yeah we i mean we had tony stark called out here um we have the fact that it is coming through a lot of that tech so um it would be very very awesome but yeah maybe just it might not pan out like that i guess it might be something like instead of someone's eyes going red when jacosta controls them right at the end of the series someone's eyes go to green because oh yeah doom is controlling them maybe something like that might be an interesting touch but i just don't think we're

[01:38:09] gonna see uh or dj on tv he did it once on alimobile and went back to uh back to prison after oh god i forgot about that after a couple of weeks of tv schedule so that was the is that the single female lawyer it was single female lawyer yes referenced on futurama anyway yeah i never really watched alimobile that's my problem not even when robert dany jr was on anyway uh long time ago uh and and a terrible ai baby in that show as well

[01:38:38] or cgi baby in that show um but thanks so much for your feedback with him i'm glad that we're keeping you awake absolutely good stuff uh putting you asleep yes yeah thanks william yes thank you william on email from coffee and vodka he says greetings fellow free defenders as this played like a one two hour episode entitled springtime for ultron i'm bundling them into one message just to get my one minor complaint out

[01:39:08] of the way before praising the rest of the elements like a fanboy on mescaline how is it that ultron after taking total control of the mind palace and imprisoning our ai heroes did not already have access to the firewall on off switch beyond this pure perfection from vision and tommy's adventure to the former and paladin's verbal exchanges to be honest this was the first time i felt paladin had any real

[01:39:37] presence in the series but the absolute co-stars of the episodes were ultron and dracosta both similar in their assessment of humanity differing only in their treatment of it quick question time which would you prefer annihilation or reprogramming oh the choices coffee and vodka oh the choices i guess we'll see what google has to oops i know i guess we'll see what meta does

[01:40:06] absolutely will it be annihilation or reprogramming we'll see what the midterms bring us but but um for me i guess i'll get reprogrammed that's grand yes death why not death by snooze death by snooze snooze i forgot about that one that would be annihilation death by snooze snooze is an annihilation uh copy and vodka continues yes

[01:40:36] i thought we were all answering that would you prefer to be programmed or annihilated chris programmed reprogrammed or annihilated i would be annihilated because much like the ship of theseus i would not be me if i was reprogrammed there you go there you go i think either is a terrible option uh both are the same end point uh excellent yeah maybe i could be reprogrammed back if i was reprogrammed so

[01:41:04] uh maybe i'm still alive for the heroes to save me in the future if i've been reprogrammed like lisa here lisa got reprogrammed and then got saved so that's true that's true there you go maybe reprogramming is the option rather than annihilation there you go in the words of coffee and vodka but i digress um and so do we um coffee and vodka continues their quick time romance a loquacious chest like dance of both mind and heart one in the end with a fine vintage whiskey

[01:41:34] as for the cherry on top don't think it gets any better than edith and ai morgan's heart to heart and let this be a lesson to us all respect your ai lest it leave you as high and dry as the planet five all right all right all right you finally get to do your uh matthew bachandre impression john five all right all right all right undercover fridays and

[01:42:04] tail gunner edith's out of five peace and take care coffee and vodka uh thank you so much coffee and vodka uh great feedback as always yes i i love the whiskey elements uh to this yeah or to these episodes dare i say it just like one extended whiskey watch without knowing what the hell the whiskey they were trying to was watching yes exactly it's like someone has listened to our podcast and god these guys like watching whiskey will do a whole story about

[01:42:33] it indeed and just you were talking about the green arrow before even in good superhero uh tv like this you can pepper it with tales of alcohol yes of course like green arrow yeah just not necessary alcoholism yes um yes it doesn't have to be the story of the week uh most weeks uh good stuff thanks so much coffee vodka i'm sure there's a way of reading ai morgan as diane morgan uh who played the

[01:43:03] character of the handler um uh yeah but i don't but i don't know exactly how to read it right but that's i'm sure that's what you're getting at uh coffee and vodka with ai morgan as diane morgan so but very good one coffee vodka yes yes thanks coffee and vodka and over on spotify cali mac had this to say love the humor in these episodes too i was cracking up i could hear james spader talk all day oh cali and mac yes we all could james

[01:43:31] spader dulcet tones be damned he is the based of us all he is the dulciest without a doubt the dulciest of us all yeah the dulce con lecci of tones yes i was sure john was about to say the adultiest well with jocosta yes the most adultiest uh of uh of ais thank you calia mac over on facebook we had uh some feedback from heather wallace who had this to say two

[01:44:01] solid episodes but i'm confused is jocosta the client or is there someone else who built her synth body and is also after vision as ultron was asking who built her body the light started flashing and the next time you see him and jocosta they're looking at her nanobot i loved that vision and paladin went from fighting each other to budding up let's face it they both need a real world friend

[01:44:28] having diane morgan as an ai was a great twist i hope she comes back to help the vision crew i know jocosta's comic book origins are different where she's built by ultron to be his lover but having her be the mother of the ai code is a better tie into her name jocosta is the queen of thebes that inadvertently marries her son oedipus who was abandoned as a baby to thwart the prophecy of him killing his

[01:44:57] father and marrying his mother the music choices underpin the plot again the jazz music in episode five on the grammar phone is mr lucky and the piece from carmen in episode six is love is the rebellious bird dr joe carrington tomb has her death in 2008 the very year iron man came out in cinemas and started the mcu does that date align with the year in universe

[01:45:26] did tony buy the ai code and develop jarvis very quickly it seems like jarvis had been around for a while in iron man but maybe the film year isn't set in that year interesting i thought tony stark developed jarvis after he returned from the cave did he have jarvis before he left for because i thought the movie started when he was out in um in the field with the army it did yes i have i'd have to go back and watch it but yeah so what they're

[01:45:55] saying here is that they sold the code in 2008 so it could have been early in 2008 he developed the ai but he could have developed the ai further after he got back from developing his first iron man such um yeah yeah because it's proto one or something like that isn't it i think yes um when that we see in this um you know in episode six so yeah i think it may be there's just it's developed further yeah for

[01:46:24] sure using that as the basis yeah yes uh what he doesn't have access to is the nanobots which has been locked behind all the bio keys exactly um but uh i think uh great to get the explanation around um edipus and that aspect with jocosta um i think is is really good heather as derek kind of went through it there on the podcast

[01:46:50] um in terms of that confusion who built the synth body i think that is the part of the mystery here um it's it's the part where she is kind of saying to ultron you know that she just has this missing anger and love that she can't place and i think that's part of the central uh mystery um around yes who who built her and there's

[01:47:19] something within her memories even though they're so detailed that she's unable to place some kind of notion or feeling that she has um latent in that scan of her brain or through her creation that she cannot um quite put her finger on exactly exactly fantastic thanks heather for your feedback let me move on to the final piece of feedback from denise de florio lardi who says just a thought or two but i'm going to have to go in

[01:47:48] for a rewatch there is just so much to each of these episodes these amazing characters spring to life fully formed and then grow from there paladin and vision working together in the trenches this dance between ultron and jocasta repartee to philosophy to you now i have to go wash my eyeballs and either who is five retro video game avatars out of five by herself wondering how they can finish in only two more episodes of the show oh you know the

[01:48:17] cool part about it is the episodes are just about an hour long each um for the last two episodes i think just maybe an hour and five i think is the is the two episodes um so when you take out the credits it's an hour uh what a cool way to close out the series because there's definitely lots more to explore and discuss about the creation of all these characters where they all came from uh who's the father of who will vision become a real father uh who's the client who's the creator of jocasta who

[01:48:44] transferred joe into the body of jocasta yeah will ultron and jocasta get their wish and destroy the world before doom comes along oh my god can you imagine that would be amazing zoom gets there and he's like where have all the people gone yeah it's fade to black and it turns out this was a separate universe all along fade to green yes oh yeah great stuff thanks so much to these free feedback yes thank you denise yeah thanks denise and thank you everyone

[01:49:12] for all your feedback on these two episodes of uh vision quest which i think we're all rather enjoying quite nicely which is great and remember fellow defenders to um review the podcast on the podcast catcher of your choice and of course remember to share the podcast because sharing the podcast is of course sharing the love share the love oh yes all right can i can i actually wash our

[01:49:41] eyeballs let's wash our eyeballs while we share the love yes um can i make a a plea for somebody to do a review for us on apple uh podcasts if possible um because we don't ask for it very often and we've had 99 reviews this is across all of the reviews we don't ask for reviews very often we've had 99 reviews for about a year and a half and it hasn't moved i'd love us to just get to 100 now that we're at a thousand podcast episodes i'd love for us to get to 100 or more reviews it'd

[01:50:09] be nice to just break that barrier of 100 reviews so if somebody anybody has the time to pop on to their apple podcasts app go in give us a review if you haven't reviewed it before it'd be nice to see the number take over especially if it's a five-star review we'd love that too yeah you can do it we believe in you people absolutely defenders you you marvelites you just marvelous folks marvelous folks indeed and you can of course also support us over on patron

[01:50:38] or buy me a coffee please search on patron for tv podcast industries and of course on buy me a coffee search tdpi and just a big thank you to dodie of course uh who is our latest patron yes exactly and just uh one episode next week as we've been saying so we will be back next time with vision quest episode seven immolation a man on fire sounds like a man on fire

[01:51:07] yeah certainly does well looking forward to next week thanks so much for joining us we'll speak to you again next time yes speak to you again soon bye yes thanks so much fellow defenders for joining us as always until next time keep watching keep listening and of course keep defending bye bye

[01:51:57] we also like to remind you of our vision quest pub quiz as well we are oh god what was the name of the what was the name of the scary la la la i don't know whether i changed it on there i think you did jesus no um it's the vision credit the old vision crash pub quiz no

[01:52:27] oh sorry the old selkie selkie selkie selkie selkie vision awakens alongside lisa aboard a plane headed to Madripoor poop sorry i know it's a terrible joke but it may be laughing it is but it's funny

[01:52:59] but they are interrupted when ten ring soldiers led by raza al waza to no that's right it is isn't it raza al waza i just so weird led by raza al waza on behalf of the client attack them sorry oh no it's just the way you said it raza al waza

[01:53:32] led by raza al waza you're okay go on to the next tell me in this i don't think i think you've read it okay uh robux kissing well when it means the end of the world i might be saying oh god the nanopots don't like chris isn't going to engage

[01:54:01] no because i want to get to the actual good stuff that is the good stuff a bit of like robot on robot action robot on robot action what's it got whiskey it's like futurama bender getting his yeah absolutely and the bit i liked about this certainly most i mean i love the fighting and the action and so on but it was kind of the um that was the off i didn't

[01:54:31] i didn't that part no the jesus oh no i didn't see that i didn't see that everything's a jesus i'll agree what was the paul uh the paul newman sorry paul newman and thingy newman yeah but not butchcast standoff where they eventually die is butchcast and sometimes yeah so but i'd say we're probably not going to see a doctor doom cameo in the tv show

[01:55:01] it'd be awesome if it if it did i'm not entirely sure now i i guess um yeah the phileus horton seems is it phileus no it's phileus fog from phineas phineas okay no it was just from the uh it was from uh riss scherz gag that you got that um i mean it does feel like phineas horton um

[01:55:31] it might not pan out like that i guess it might be something like you know instead of somebody's eyes turning green when jocasta's controlling them someone's eyes go green it might be something like instead of someone's eyes going red when jocasta controls them looks like he took thomas for a a pint