Ironheart Episode 2 Review

[00:00:00] This is Defenders on TV Podcast Industries. We're back with Ironheart Episode 2. Will the real Natalie please stand up? Call yourself whatever you want. It's not like you can be around much longer anyway. Run diagnostics. Wait, what? What you mean I just got here? I need to figure out what went wrong so I can erase you, start over and hopefully forget this weird glitch ever happened. Whoa, who you calling a glitch? Run diagnostics. Okay, so you're just gonna threaten my life and then ask for a favor.

[00:00:29] Favor? That's how you do business. Girl, that was an order. Oh. Which as an AI, you're designed to obey. Run diagnostics now. See, I just don't understand why you want to erase me when I'm literally perfection. No, you are a mistake. How, Sway? My goal was to recreate a very sophisticated Wakandan AI called Grio. To enhance my suit's functionality. You sound like Victorian era ghost. Listen, that could be us, but you tripping.

[00:00:56] I'm looking at a hologram of my dead best friend instead. Yeah, man, I've choked so much beer.

[00:01:26] I didn't break. Maybe we should use that for the poke quiz later on. Welcome back, fellow Defenders to TV podcast, Industries 4, Ironheart, episode 2, Will the Real, N-A-T-A-L-I-E. Please stand up. I am one of your hosts, D-E-R-E-K. Sorry, I was too busy spelling that. I was like, yes, you did spell your name correctly. You know my name right, yeah. And I am one of your hosts, J-O-H-M. Well done. Woo!

[00:01:54] And I am, I don't know, I can't assume, C-H-O-R-I-S, but I'm not sure right now. Well done, Chris. Well done, Chris. Yay! That took me a second as well. We record late in the evening when we've used a lot of our brain power. Yes, we have. Yes. I literally, you were going the same as John. I was like, you were spelling your name. I'm like, wait, what does he say? Now I understand when people spell like biscuits in front of toddlers. They're like, huh?

[00:02:23] And you're like, wait, did I actually spell that right? Absolutely. Bisquicks? What are bisquicks? I don't know what biscuits are. Fantastic. But all of that is based on a line of this episode, which is where Natalie gives what her alternate title should be. And the only thing I could think of was the first episode of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. when Agent Coulson spells out S.H.I.E.L.D. to Agent Ward. And Ward says to him, I think somebody just really wanted to spell out S.H.I.E.L.D. So I think Natalie just really wanted to spell out Natalie. Yes.

[00:02:53] But welcome back, brother defenders. Hope you've been enjoying the first couple of episodes of Ironheart. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com. You can subscribe over there to the podcast and get each of our episodes as they're released. And we also want to hear your thoughts on Ironheart. We're recording a little bit in advance, so we haven't heard any of your thoughts yet. But I know lots of people are excited about this show. You can email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with your thoughts or pop on over to our Facebook

[00:03:20] group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries. And there's a spoiler put up there for each of the three episodes of the show that have been released so far. Excellent stuff. And a reminder, we are also doing our Ironheart MIT student bar quiz. The second question of that will be up later on in the episode. It certainly will, fellow defenders. And of course, fellow quizzes. But let us get into episode two.

[00:03:48] But Derek, give us some of the episode details. Yeah, absolutely. As we mentioned before, this character was created by Brian Michael Menlis and artist Mike DiDatio in 2016. The executive producers of the show are Kevin Feige, Louis Despedito, Brad Winterbaum, Zold Neglehut, Shanika Hodge, Ryan Coogler, Zinji Coogler and Sev Ohanian. The head writer for the show is Shanika Hodge. And this episode was written by Mallory Harrod. She was a writer on a show called In the Dark for three seasons.

[00:04:15] But she also worked as crew on Thor Love and Thunder as well. It must have been her way into Marvel. Yes. I thought you were going to be mean and say like your penance or something. Paul Mallory. It wasn't that bad. Do you know, I did hear a brilliant story about Thor Love and Thunder today. Where James Gunn was asked about why he didn't include Thor in his final Guardians of the Galaxy for Marvel. And he said that was their problem to sort out. The minute he saw them boarding the Guardians of the Galaxy ship, he said,

[00:04:44] you sort that out and then I'll come back into Guardians of the Galaxy 3. So he left it up to Taika Waititi to sort all that out in Thor Love and Thunder. I love that. Well done, James. Very fun. And he's right too as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. This episode, once again, directed by Samantha Bailey as well, who directed episode one and directs episode three. John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for? Episode two. Will the real Natalie please stand up? Sure.

[00:05:12] Still in need of parts to complete her suit in time for the tunnel heist, Riri reaches out to an underground tech dealer, Joe McGillicuddy, and easily blackmails him into helping her. She soon encourages the meek arms supplier Joe to stand up for himself after learning about his passion for technology, and he provides the items she needs to rebuild her suit.

[00:05:35] The HUD's team has a plan to blackmail the CEO of the seemingly nefarious organization TNNL Tunnel by arranging for Riri to plant a virus in the mainframe. But before she can accomplish the task, her new AI Natalie pops up and startles Riri into dropping the pen drive. Giving over control to Natalie, the two find a workaround and accomplish the mission.

[00:06:02] As the rest of the team get away, Riri is confronted by an armed guard, and Natalie glitches, unable to help. Riri is only saved when Parker uses his power off the hood to take out the guard and get them to safety. After the job, Riri learns that her mother Ronnie knows all about her new AI Natalie made from her best friend. Meanwhile, somewhere in suburban Chicago, Joe takes back control,

[00:06:31] standing up for himself with his pushy neighbor as he breaks down and destroys her flowers. And back in downtown, Parker discusses his master plan aloud as voices echo from the seemingly inanimate hood. Hmm. Don't think it's inanimate somehow. No, it's not. Not seeing his back at the end of last episode. Something's happening. It's magic. His blood is turning. It's magic. It is magic.

[00:06:58] But as Riri said, that is just a way of trying to explain something that you can't work out effectively and explain. Yes. So it's almost taking... Science we don't understand. Yes. Almost the Thor concept of magic and godliness. Yeah. Well, we do know magic exists now in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Yes, we do. We have Wanda and Chaos Magic and Doctor Strange. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[00:07:28] Paul Daniels. Paul Daniels. David Blaine. Chris Angel. Mindfreak. Mindfreak. Oh my god. I'd love if they did a Mindfreak and just brought Mindfreak in to like... And then you'd have like Doctor Shane. Didn't they do that? Wait. She-Hulk. Remember there was the whole bit with Wong and there was the fake guy being his Mindfreak? What was it? It was some form of that. It was funny.

[00:07:57] He'd stolen one of Doctor Strange's portal rings. Yes. Yes. So he was pulling people in from another dimension, which wasn't great. But it is the episode that we got Madison and She-Hulk, one of the best characters in the Marvel Universe. Hopefully she'll be back to fight Doom in Doomsday in the future. Oh my god. She takes Doom out for margaritas. Absolutely. Just walks in one of the portals and grabs Wong and then go off for drinks and watching and spoiling another massive series.

[00:08:27] But we are here to talk about the second episode of Ironheart. So let's start out where the episode started out with a case note number one. Natalie is here. All capitals. She is. Otherwise known as the Neuro Autonomous Technical Assistant Laboratory Intelligence Entity. Looks like someone really wanted to spell shield. I mean, Natalie. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm glad. Well done, John. Well done. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:08:54] But I'm glad this opening kind of brought you right in, you know, follow straight on from the end of episode one and kind of cleared that up that you, you know, you got the sort of the digital glitch and wave running across Natalie. I did really like it where she goes, if I wasn't real, could I do this? And she tries to knock something off the table that goes, oh, okay, I can't do that. Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:21] No, I mean, to be honest, Natalie absolutely grows on me in this episode and in episode three. And I kind of just like the fact that she gets, you know, that Riri's freaked out by it all, is trying to, you know, having this conversation because Riri's like, well, run diagnostics because effectively she wants to erase her. And she's like, but I'm your best friend, you know, and all this. So I kind of just really like this pitter patter between the two.

[00:09:50] It was so well realized through the writing and the performances of these two. So, yeah, I thought this was really good. Absolutely. Absolutely. Why erase me when I'm literal perfection? Like a little bridge has got that same personality that we saw in that flashback at the start of the first episode. I think this is cool for a character like Riri Williams, you know. Anybody can get into the Iron Man suit and have Jarvis in the rear, the upper class British guy, telling them what to do until he became Vision.

[00:10:18] And then we got Irish actress Kerry Condon playing Friday in the suit for Iron Man. You know, that suits Iron Man. That suits Tony Stark. That suits that group of people. Oh, absolutely. Here having Riri Williams with her best friend, with the same personality that her best friend had in her ear all the time, I think is really cool. I love that even when they're investigating who Joe McGillicuddy is, they both instantly joke about the fact that it's obviously a made up name, you know. So Riri has that pitter patter with this person instantly.

[00:10:48] She doesn't have to train her anymore. It's like the best version of AI possible. If I had John in my ear telling me what to do all the time, that would be, well, just like real life, actually. I was going to say. But if I had Chris in my ear telling me what to do and I ignored it all the time, that would also be like real life, wouldn't it? But here we have Riri with her best friend, Natalie, back. And I love the introduction to it. I think it was a really good way of introducing her. For me, it's a fun introduction. I like the character.

[00:11:16] I like the actress who plays her. I'm interested to see how they continue and what they do to continue the character. Especially because Riri's mom meets her. Yeah. And that is definitely, but at a certain point, she's going to end up, Riri's going to have to tell her brother. Yeah. Natalie's brother that they've created.

[00:11:46] And I'm interested to see how, is there a origin? So we know that she fell asleep. She imagined, she scanned her own brain to create her own version of herself as an AI. And somehow got a form of Natalie, more than likely because she was listening to Xavier's mixtape with Natalie's voicemail on it. So, and he does call out and Riri says it back to him.

[00:12:16] He listens to that tape sometimes because it's nice to hear her voice. Is there going to be a fallout from this creation of Natalie? Yes. Yes. And how, yeah, yes. We all know it. Especially because Xavier's being set up to be the love interest. The puppy dog guys. So interesting to see what comes from it. Is there, what is the fallout?

[00:12:44] But also, do androids dream of electric sheep? Do we get this, the AI is fully sentient? Yeah. What is the impact from that and things like that? Yeah. So it's going to be interesting to see what comes. So, but again, even if nothing and it's like not, we don't get a massive payout. But the character itself is fun in the way they interact and they have that banter between the two. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:13:12] And, you know, it's probably the really interesting way they've done it here as well. I mentioned characters like Jarvis back in the day when it was ostensibly a control system inside of the suit. AI hadn't really been talked about at the time in the way it's talked about now. So it didn't have its wants and needs. It was just a comedy foil sometimes for Tony Stark until eventually we had the whole Vision storyline coming out of that.

[00:13:36] But here we have almost instantly we have Natalie being pushed into the laptop by Riri going, you're not going to be connected to my suit. You're staying at home here. And she goes through a whole story in this episode of getting herself out of the laptop, projecting herself in front of Riri's mom, having a conversation with her where she gets some advice from Riri's mom going, no, you just need to push through Riri. Mom seems really happy with the fact that there's a version of Natalie back.

[00:14:06] And then she works out a way to get back into Riri's suit as well. So she's gone on her own journey in her own arc as her own character in this episode. That's something that you wouldn't have seen back in the early days of AI in the Marvel Universe, let's say. So I like that they've given her her own character and the actors are doing a great job. Every time she's on screen, it just makes me laugh. She's great. Yeah. And she's not evil for now. And isn't going to launch all the nuclear ballistic missiles. Yeah.

[00:14:34] At least we can count on one AI to not do that. Yet. Yes. Where we go next for our case note number two, guys? I think we should go off to Han Solo, also known as Joe McGillicuddy. Yes. Eldon Ehrenreich playing the character of Joe McGillicuddy. And he was Han Solo in the Solo movie, which we've now watched many, many times. But yeah, we have a bit of Joe McGillicuddy here. We certainly do.

[00:15:01] He's the closest black market trader that can get the repulsors and the kit required for the suit and for Riri to fix the suit in time for the TNNL or tunnel heist with the HUD and the team. So yeah, I mean, this is kind of good.

[00:15:27] We see Joe in a sense being just sort of bullied by his neighbor. We weirdly see a dog taking a dump and literally had to remind it to make sure that what I had just seen wasn't the figment of my imagination. But it did happen, fellow defenders. It did happen. See, John taking the hit so you don't have to. Exactly.

[00:15:56] With all this browbeating and so on, he drops his groceries as well. This is where Riri sort of comes on in to sort of negotiate with Joe. You know, he's kind of denying it. Where's your stash? She asks, but you've got the wrong guy.

[00:16:18] But, you know, she forces that negotiation, threatens him with prison by snitching that he's got all this kit. And in the end, all this kit has this whole load of stuff in this really kind of quite cool little sort of agricultural grain silo. Yeah.

[00:16:46] Kind of like that a lot. To be honest, I was thinking that was going to be her kind of workshop that these two were going to kind of team up. And that's going to be the base of operations. A bit like Micro with the Punisher. You know, maybe Joe would be her sidekick or at least tech sidekick. The guy in the chair. Yeah. So that I kind of really enjoyed.

[00:17:13] So interesting character is just because it's such a big actor for me to be playing this traitor. Yeah. I really liked him. One moment that I really, really enjoyed is after Riri's forced him to take her in the car to his hideout. And he just starts to cry. And she's like, hang on a second. Are you crying about being blackmailed? And he goes, no, no. This is basically the second time I've been blackmailed today. I get blackmailed every day.

[00:17:40] I'm just worried about the fact that you're going to take all the stuff that I've worked so hard to get. It's like, you need to really think about your life, mate. If you're getting blackmailed every single day, there's a problem here. Just really liked it. There's also that moment where she's like, have you ever touched them? Yeah. As well. Yeah, yeah. He's literally just, which is kind of slightly weird. He's literally bought them on the black market and holds them to sell.

[00:18:10] Yeah. But doesn't physically hold them. Yeah. And so again, weird, slightly intriguing as to why that is. Yeah. I really have to say I love the character and the actor again. As you progress through episode two, the character is charming. Mm-hmm. The character is just fun. You want to see more of him and Riri play.

[00:18:38] Similar to the dynamic between Riri and Natalie, this dynamic between Riri and Joe is fun. Yeah. It is. It is. And you want to kind of like, okay, give me more of this team up for going with that old school. Yeah. So again, we've seen episode three. So we'll talk more about this character in our kind of coverage on episode three. But this introduction kind of extension of this character throughout the episode two is just fun. Yeah. Yeah. Really liked it. Really liked you.

[00:19:08] Again, it's just the fact that this 18-year-old kid can blackmail him into giving him everything that she needs. Actually, she might be 21, 22 now. But it's just I'm confused by the timeline because in the first episode they said that she went to college at 14. And they said that she's had three or four years of matriculation or three or four years in college and hasn't finished her college course. I don't know whether that's after. Was that a four-year postgrad after her time in college? Is she in her 20s? Is she 17, 18 now? I don't know.

[00:19:37] But anyway, the point is she's only about five foot tall and she's able to browbeat this guy into getting everything that she wants out of them. Which I think is a great start for the character. So our introduction to Joe. Definitely. Yeah. Should we move on to our next case note? Yeah. Yeah. Let's get on to our heist two. We had a heist each of the episodes now so far. We've had the heist without Riri in the first episode. And this time we have a heist in Tunnel. I love this.

[00:20:07] Do you know why? Because that is 100% how someone in Silicon Valley would spell tunnel. Absolutely. Like it is just I was like, yep, yep. Well done. Yep. That is 100% the annoying way that they would do it. As someone who is in that annoying ecosystem myself, I was like, yeah, I could see them. And then it's going to be like, again, with the acronym, it will be something crazily silly.

[00:20:35] That just makes no sense just because they want to dispel tunnel. They deserve to be robbed. We'll go that far. One thing I will say is this is an obvious kind of joke on the very similar one that is being done in L.A. Boring by Elon Musk. Oh, right. Right. Because he is doing the exact same thing.

[00:21:01] His way to solve traffic in L.A. is the boring company and going underground. These large, only Teslas can go on these tracks underground. Right. So, sorry. So, boring, not as in not interesting. Boring as in cutting holes into something. Okay, great. But it is boring too. Yes. I don't know. I was watching this on screen and watching the representation of what was happening.

[00:21:27] I was going, does that actually save traffic time when you just have to kind of park up, your car falls through the floor and then joins a queue that doesn't move very fast. And eventually it pops up the other side, I guess. It just looked really unnecessary because they're using, you know, old tunnels that had been sort of dug out and bored and so on from like,

[00:21:53] I guess, you know, the Victorian kind of era of Chicago. Well, that period, you know, the 19th century. Right. And it's like, and then it kind of showed where it looked like it was just hover cars, but just on tracks. And I mean. But regular cars on hover tracks, no on hover platforms. No, just on platforms being taken around. But it seems so extensive, the system.

[00:22:23] And I was like, yeah, it wouldn't look like that at all, you know. And I was like, that must have cost a fortune. You'd be better off doing the repulsor car that you've seen in one of the movies that sort of flies around, you know, or like Coruscant. Lola, John. Yeah, exactly. Yes. You know, so I was just like, okay, yeah, that does sound like what a nutty billionaire would do.

[00:22:48] And then make it like where effectively the USB thing is only specific to his brand. So no one else could use it. That just makes a lot of sense. Doesn't it really? It does sound like it's all pointed at a particular person. Yeah, it does. Yes. It sounds like, look at this waste of money. Yes. But can I just very quickly talk about this heist?

[00:23:12] Because the one thing I want to say is, and Derek and I discussed this in coming up to this, there's no way they're going to show like the suit, like doing Iron Man stuff in every episode. Yeah. We're two for two. Yes, we are. Like, and extensive scenes.

[00:23:32] Like, and this whole heist is ostensibly just them underground, aside from the fight cuts and the piece in the car. So I was surprisingly shocked and delighted, surprised and delighted by this. Because I was like, I was not expecting this. I was expecting it to be more Ocean's Eleven. Yeah. Type of like kind of them doing a bit more of the punching and thing.

[00:23:59] And she's there for her repulsor ray and her wrist and things like that. But that's it. Like, I thought that it was a really good kind of action sequence, really. And even just like once it was in play as well with, you know, the dropping of the pen drive and then. Because Natalie appears back up in the suit. I thought it was hilarious. I was just like, hi. Exactly. With Natalie appearing. But then the improvisation is happening. She informs Slug.

[00:24:29] You know, John's not particularly happy that the improvisation is taking place. But then it's like Natalie just goes, oh, yeah. And in literally five miles, you're going to get crushed like a tin of tuna type of thing. So you need to hurry up and do this. So there's some real trepidation here. And I kind of thought it was really good. And in particular, I thought the clown's explosive was really cool. That it kind of like melted in.

[00:24:54] And then sort of because they said that she's going to use an explosive that's really quiet. And it was just I didn't quite know how they were going to realize that. And then they showed this thing kind of almost like melting into the tarmac and concrete. And then it kind of just doing this soft. Yeah. And I thought that was really cool. It was. It was. Again, just even taking it outside of what RiRi does, seeing what the blood siblings do.

[00:25:21] The fights are dynamic. They're really good. And one thing I'll say about the director is that the choice, the camera choices while they're fighting, there is some crunch to the, like at one point, one of the saving grabs a guy by the head, vaults over the console and smashes his head into the console as they land on the other side. Very cool.

[00:25:47] And the camera pans the right way, follows them and just keeps the head in the center of the screen and smashes it down. So there's this very kinetic, fluid motion to the kind of the pan of the camera that you feel. They were very reminiscent for me of John Wick. Right. That's where I got that kind of like, oh, you, your cinematographer, your director, your DP is like, oh, they watch this and we're going to do this for these fights.

[00:26:16] And it works. It works well. I think we're in a brand new world ever since the John Wick movies came out. There's a brand new world of action out there. And there people will always try to emulate it now. You know, either in Marvel, you go and do your Daredevil one shot hallway scene or you have to do something approaching what what's happened over the what's it now? Six John Wick movies. The ballerina. Oh, it's like the Nolan sort of truck flip.

[00:26:44] Because even just the head smash just felt reminiscent of the Joker putting the pencil up and shoving that. Yeah. I don't know why. It just it just the noise. It's again, it's that kinetic kind of crunch that they add from the sound effect as well. So as you can feel you, you hear bones breaking, but you can hear it. And surprisingly, a lot of that's done with celery. Right. The ADR is like literally someone is in front of me just breaking celery.

[00:27:13] And that's the crunch they get from those celery pieces. I like it. That's why I don't do celery. Yes. Mind your bones breaking. Mind your broken bones. Absolutely. I think as well here, the another big kind of moment of this is that we see the hood, some of the hood's powers that it imparts on Parker.

[00:27:35] And that he can effectively go invisible as he appears next to Sheila Zarate, who's the owner of Tunnel. And effectively gets him and his team, you know, on the board, on the payroll, stock options, all anonymous kind of thing, you know, and she's willing to sign up.

[00:27:59] Otherwise, yeah, the virus is going to sort of run ragged through the tunnel mainframe. Yeah. Or the other threat is that even if they do cure the virus and stop the virus from happening, they can also come back at a later stage if she reneges on the deal and do it while one of their big clients is in the tunnel as well. So they have proved they can do it now. They'll come back and do it again. What's this attack called again? This is the ransomware attack, basically, that's done against other countries here. Much more dynamic, much more physical.

[00:28:28] Unfortunately, in the real world, it's just an email that goes into a system sometimes and goes, we are now in control of your system, unfortunately. But here, much more exciting to watch it this way, right? Yeah, well, and that's it. And then the other one is the ability to bend bullets that we see as he's sort of getting Riri out of a scrape with one of the security guards after the mission has gone down.

[00:28:56] She comes back out, caught by security, points a gun, and that makes Natalie effectively glitch. So she loses control of the suit. She's not able to put the helmet fully closed and down. So the hood steps in and wounds this security guard.

[00:29:16] So, you know, again, a little bit more problematic for Riri that he shot the security guard, but it was only to wound him, not to kill him. So I kind of like that we kind of get these different powers of Parker or the hood. But also then it raises the question here.

[00:29:40] So we do have Riri asking, I think, Clown, you know, what do you know about Parker and this hood? And she says she's heard that he got it from lost property at the airport, effectively, which I thought was cool. Wrestled the cape off a demon and she's seen him without it on.

[00:30:04] And it's like, you know, he's hot, but the scales everywhere, but not like a lizard person. So I kind of just like how, you know, seeing this skill of him saving her and the bullet being sort of bent and arced through the air. A bit like John Wick as well. And then, what's the bullet bending one?

[00:30:33] I had Chris Evans in a movie about that. Wanted. Oh, wanted, sorry. Yeah, it was with what the Scottish dude, wasn't it? James McAvoy. James McAvoy. Based on a comic book, but completely changed from the comic book. Oh, they kept it with the bullet bending, wasn't it? Pretty much. Well, no, they kept some of it about the assassins, but like, yeah, they changed a lot. We have different types of comic book movies these days. Yes.

[00:30:57] So I kind of like the fact that the more they revealed here then about the hood, the more Riri, you know, in true sort of mechanic and hard work, the technician style wants to look under the hood to find out more about Parker. Love it. And so, yeah. Yeah. And we're going to talk a little bit more about him in our final point for this episode as well. Just want to quickly get back to the heist. Just one tiny thing that I wanted to mention as well, Chris.

[00:31:25] You talked about the exciting in-air stuff with the Ironheart suit in this episode. I also loved that they did a mechanical version of the thing from Wednesday and from The Addams Family where she sends off the hand to do the job that she can't reach. I thought that was just a great use of the suit. And again, seemingly an expensive thing to do. And they've given themselves ways out all the way through the show. They've given themselves ways out in case they can't use the suit or don't want to use the suit. You know, they crashed it in the first episode.

[00:31:54] They now have it being controlled by Natalie, her best friend, so she could easily go, I have to leave it at home and come up with something else. But no, they're using it. So that's quite cool. And one other thing I really liked in the heist. When HUD gets the sign off on the contract from the CEO of Tunnel and tells everybody to leave their positions, one of the blood siblings turns around to the guy she's just been beaten on and goes, see you at the Christmas party. Because they're now all on the payroll. Oh, what a great little joke there.

[00:32:25] Anything else about the heist? Did it all make sense to you what they were doing in the heist? Initially, no. Initially, you are like, what is happening? And then as Parker produces the contract and they all walk, then it all can click, click, click, click, click. And it makes a lot of sense. And it's not a smash and grab, which again, you are kind of expecting to a degree based on heist in episode one.

[00:32:55] And based on the first one in the first episode, which looked a bit like that. Exactly. So again, is Parker that Robin Hood-esque outfit to take from the rich to give to himself and the crew? But is there more an altruistic approach? Is there something more going on? Yeah. And you're led to question a bit more of it. What is the true motive behind this?

[00:33:23] But as a fun heist, it is cool as hell. It is the set piece of this episode. And it really ends on a high. It does. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a big moment. And again, I think the heist itself, you're right. The heist itself just took a second to realize what it is they're actually doing here with Tunnel. But we do get a little conversation between John and Hood that says this is just one of the plans, one of the heists that they're doing.

[00:33:52] They're moving along through a list, effectively, that they have to get to. So that is the bigger overarching thing that we just don't know anymore about. But there are other heists to come as we go through the season and go through the plans as well. Let's move on to just a final note for this episode, the case number four, just to wrap up. Because I thought it's important just to wrap up those stories as they do at the end of the episode. So we have Riri returning home after the situation.

[00:34:19] She comes in through the house and finds out that her mother has learned that Natalie is an AI. She's created one. I just thought it was important to mention because what she says to her is she's absolutely perfect. Can you create Gary? Yeah. I think that's just quite a big moment for these two characters. She realizes that Riri's created her best friend in such a great way that her mom thinks she's actually having conversations with her best friend. And she wants her to recreate her dead husband, effectively.

[00:34:49] Yeah, exactly. And Riri instantly says, no, I can't do it. But can I talk about this at this point? Right. Yeah. So this is where I feel they failed to a degree. And maybe it's, I'm saying this now not having seen other episodes outside of the third. And what most of our listeners will have seen. Riri doesn't explain why she can't. She just says, no, I can't.

[00:35:14] And you can see that abject kind of crush on her mother. I was like, well, why? Why can't you? And it's a third that's left loose. And I hope they do get back to it because that is something that you, like when your stepfather, but your mother's husband is killed in the same time as thing. And you bring back one, but not the other.

[00:35:40] And you don't explain, I don't know how I've done it, but if I can in the future. So it just seems that she's being a BITCH to her mother. Like there's no rationale given. There's just a Kurt with some emotion. No. So I just felt this was a bit that I was like, oh, I hope this pays off because. Yeah, maybe. I think you're right.

[00:36:07] It's a bit of a cliff edge rather than her just saying, like you say, I don't know how this happened. I'm trying to figure it out. And that's part of getting to know Natalie through this, the show. But or even just if it was, I don't know, but I didn't intend to do it. And there's like, obviously the whole moral kind of dilemma of it as well. And also, yeah.

[00:36:36] And also there's the fact that Riri hasn't accepted what Ronnie has. Riri hasn't once sat down with Natalie and had a conversation and found out her personality or anything like that. Ronnie had that conversation and went, she's perfect. She's exactly like Natalie was before she died. You've created something absolute perfection. Can you do that and create my husband? And Riri's going, I think Riri's going no, because Riri hasn't accepted that Natalie is perfect. Natalie is the right thing and the right creation. So it's kind of they're talking at two different perspectives of Natalie here.

[00:37:05] But it's a really interesting moment, I think. Yeah, absolutely. I think the other thing as well that we get here from Natalie is that she has sensed this crazy energy, not from around here, on Parker, from the hood. And that he's wrapped up in some sketchy stuff here. Yes, he is.

[00:37:27] And as that conversation, I guess linking back to the conversation that Riri's had with Clown about what they know about Parker, this is additional stuff, again, just adding intrigue. We see that Parker's veins on his back are growing further over his body.

[00:37:48] And actually, you get the sense that John is worried about this because he's concerned he can't cover them all up with his excellent tattoo work. He just doesn't want to do face tats. Yeah. Because nobody needs face tats or neck tats. He just doesn't want to do that. He's like, I'll reserve it for the back. That's fine. But you won't get a job if we do it in front of you or in your neck or in your head. No, no. Yeah, I definitely see it. And I think we know this series is going to start to feature magic more.

[00:38:17] We've heard Parker say that the hood is magic. There was an interesting moment when after Parker has used the powers of the hood to bend the bullets around Riri, where they're having their conversation and Parker's standing in front of many posters for the play Faust, which is about the theme of the play, is about a character who sold their soul to the devil. I think we're going to be getting... Is it Mephisto confirmed, I think is what we're saying. Doesn't he plus show? There has to be a reference to Mephisto somewhere.

[00:38:47] There's going to be a reference, but I don't think it's... It's not going to be someone... It's going to be Malbuja, the third... They're just... They're not going to do it. Well, it does keep all the rumour of all the Mephistos that we've been predicting. It's still a chance here. Absolutely. And the other possibility, I still keep thinking, that if you're going to bring magic into this world, connecting it back through Doctor Strange is usually a good way to do it.

[00:39:15] So do we have Dormammu influencing this universe from his banishment by Doctor Strange back in Doctor Strange? Is this a way to tie in another big Marvel movie into this world? Possibly. I mean, certainly clowns, you know, one of the rumours that he wrestled a cape off a demon has a ring of truth about it as well. Yes, it does. It's just which demon is she talking about?

[00:39:41] And it's just the fact that we now, for the second time, hear the voices as Parker's discussing out loud. We hear these voices once again. So do we have a demon? Do we have Mephisto? And the last character to really wrap up, I suppose, is we do see Joe regaining some of his power as he walks across the street to snip the plants of his neighbour,

[00:40:09] who wouldn't allow her dog to go in the garden because she didn't want to ruin her grass. Oh, that whole conversation wrecked my head. Yeah. Oh, no. Can't be doing with it. Cannot be doing with it. You're a dog. You're a property. You bag it. You put it in your bin. Don't come anywhere near my property. I didn't buy the dog. Yeah. Or the dog goes in the bin. No, no. Not the dog's fault. Owner's fault. Owner goes in the bin. What a nightmare.

[00:40:38] But anyway, Joe does fight back. The empire strikes back. Yes. Yes, he does. Yes, he does. Any notes that we haven't talked about for the episode? Anything we haven't called out? No, I do kind of like words. You know, as the repertoire grows between Riri and Joe, as she mends her suit, there's this kind of giving flair tips about the repulsor for the suit.

[00:41:06] And he's like, where's your arc reactor? And you find out that it is solar and wind powered. Yes, absolutely. I think that's kind of cool, you know. She says she's going to make it better than Tony Stark did, than anybody else can. Instead of putting a nuclear bomb in the middle of her chest, she's decided to go for wind and air power. Absolutely. Solar power. I just love the fact that that will wreck so many people's heads. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. When it shouldn't bother them at all.

[00:41:36] Yeah. I actually even love the scene where we see the suit up in the air, taking in the solar power and taking the wind power and then coming down to the ground. I think that's quite cool to see that. There's a couple of other notes from me. Just when Riri is telling Natalie to shut herself off, she says, as you wish, Master Riri, which is a reference to I Dream of Genie. And so Natalie realizing she's basically a genie that can do anything that Riri wants her to do. And Riri's not willing to help her out or not willing to use her.

[00:42:02] I also think that there's a moment with Joe and Riri in the car where Joe plays You Oughta Know by Alanis Morissette. I still think that's the greatest group sing-along song of all the 90s. That's some strong words, but especially when we have Chumbawumba. No. No. So that's one of the worst. I think there's a moment in You Oughta Know when you have a group, certainly a group of my friends at our age group, when they get through the first two or three lines of that

[00:42:31] song and then everybody realizes they know every other word of the song and sing it at the top of their lungs, just like Riri Williams does with Joe in the car. I think it's great. And he goes, I didn't think you'd be an Alanis Morissette fan. And she goes, I'm a person of layers. I'm not layers. That's really good. It's really good. And then the final one for me, just the street sign that spells out Ironheart at the opening of the episode. We seem to have that every episode where we have the Ironheart coming out in a different way each episode. Yeah. It reminds me very much of another Disney Plus show called Bill Trent, where there's different styles of Bill Trent.

[00:43:01] We also got that with Ms. Marvel back in the day. Remember there was the different elements of Ms. Marvel. So great to see. Absolutely. Absolutely. So guys, with that all said, John, do you defend Ironheart? Season one, episode two, will the real Natalie please stand up? Yes, I do defend this episode. Give this a four hood heists out of five. Yeah.

[00:43:24] No, I just really enjoyed the action, like that main action sequence of the tunnel heist. I love sort of the interaction between Natalie and Riri here, the development of that. Again, you know, she's still freaked out by Natalie, whereas her mom has kind of taken her under her wing. She's sort of warm to her immediately.

[00:43:48] I like the whole, you know, I like though that they have that moment, as we mentioned, where Ronnie asks her, you know, can she make one of her husband, Gary? So, you know, really, really good. I love also this new sort of repertoire relationship forming between her and Joe. Again, there's intrigue there around Joe. Who is it?

[00:44:16] And sort of seeing more of the hood, the powers, how this is working really good, and the inquisitiveness around, well, actually, you know, what do we know about Parker? What is under the hood, so to speak? So, yeah, give this four hood heists out of five. Excellent. Chris, how about yourself do you defend this episode? I do.

[00:44:44] As the episode progressed, for me, this was getting better and better, and especially the heist elements of it. If we get a heist every episode, I'm down. It is that fun Ocean's Eleven, as they call out, and I think it's going to be key to kind of where the story goes. But overall, absolutely enjoyed it. Excellent. D-E-R-E-K.

[00:45:09] Did you enjoy, did you defend this episode of Ironheart? I was wondering after 20 years, could you spell out my name? I'm glad you could, Chris. Thank you. I is smart, S-M-R-T. Yes, I absolutely defend this episode. I think it was really, really good. The epicness of that heist was really, really good. And getting the introduction to Ironheart's Joe was really interesting, having this extra

[00:45:35] character outside of Riri and outside of all the people that she knows adds a bit more to the show as well. Yeah, really intrigued to see how the rest of the season plays out. And yeah, having the magic side of the Marvel Universe, meeting with the tech side of the Marvel Universe, quite literally in this episode. I really want to see how they're going to manage this as the show goes on, how it's going to be merged in whatever way it's going to get merged as the season goes on. Yeah. Yeah. Really love this. Great stuff. Let's wet the whistles.

[00:46:05] Let's get down to our local MIT bar for our Ironheart MIT student bar quiz. John, do you have a question for this episode? I certainly do, fellow defenders and fellow quizzers. Here is question two. What is the name of the flowers destroyed by Joe in his neighbour's garden? Ooh, very good. Yes, stupid Heather's flowers. Not Heather's flowers. We do want the actual type of flower that they are. It is mentioned at the show. It certainly is.

[00:46:35] John, do you want me to give the question again? Yeah. What is the name of the flowers destroyed by Joe in his neighbour's garden? Fantastic. That's question two of six. We will have four more questions to go. And at the end of the season, email us with the correct answers to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. And you will be in with a chance of getting your hands on some Ironheart goodies. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode. We'll be back later on with episode three. We are in danger, girl. Yes, we in danger. Don't call me girl, Sherby.

[00:47:05] Have you seen the trailer for the new Naked Gun? Oh, it's so good. So good. It looks so good. So good. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll talk to you again next time. Yes, thank you so much. Yeah, thanks so much, fellow defenders. Until episode three, which will be out this weekend. Remember, keep watching, keep listening, and of course, keep defending. Bye. Bye.