Daredevil Born Again Episode 8 Review

[00:00:00] This is Defenders on TV Podcast Industries. We're back talking about the penultimate episode of Daredevil Born Again, Episode 8, Isle of Joy. Look, Phoebe, I don't know why and I don't know how, but somehow I am on the inside of this thing. And as long as I'm in, I'm going to run like hell until, I don't know, until somebody tells me to stop.

[00:00:30] I mean, look at us. How dope is this place? I don't know, it's... I've never been anywhere like you had before. Me either. Shots? Oh. Hell yeah.

[00:01:07] Welcome back, fellow Defenders, to TV Podcast Industries and our Daredevil Born Again coverage. We're back with the penultimate episode of Season 1 of Daredevil Born Again, Episode 8, Isle of Joy. I'm one of your hosts, Derek. I'm one of your hosts, Chris. Welcome back, Chris. Thank you. Thank you. I was taken out by not a rogue tooth. I was taken out by a rogue virus. But it's fine. I have recovered. Get your vaccinations and your shots, folks.

[00:01:37] That flu going around is... Oof! It's a toughie. It's not great. But our other partner in crime was not taken out by any type of virus at all. He was just taken out by the fact that he's been traveling this week. So he's not available. So John's not here. Just myself and Chris once again for another episode of Daredevil. Yes. What an episode. What an episode. Just incredible. Absolutely loved this episode. And there's a reason behind it. You know, we've talked all the way throughout the season about the changes that this show had,

[00:02:05] the change of showrunners, the re-sculpting of the show. And even up until last week, Episode 7, where we said everything just felt very, very rushed as they threw out and finished off every storyline they needed to. And now seeing this episode, it does feel like they were finishing it all off so they could kick into the show they really wanted to make, the new showrunner and the new directors for the episode. So it feels very different and feels wholly a part of the Daredevil story that we've had

[00:02:33] throughout the Netflix series and these episodes of Born Again. But it does feel like something different. Really enjoyed it. Yeah. I don't even want to say different. It feels like they just kicked up a gear. It's almost, it's just like, basically, they got their foundation down. They got this storyline. Benson and Moorhead here. Mm-hmm. It's, you can tell what their style was. Oh, absolutely. They decided, they were like, this is the show we want. Yeah.

[00:03:00] And from that opening blue rose, you're like, oh, I see the vision now. Yeah. I see what this is. And this is your adult MCU. And you've just been building it up. You're building the characters. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Seven episodes of a build. But worth it. Yeah. Because they really put that time and effort in. Mm-hmm.

[00:03:29] Because I forget, we've had three seasons. Mm-hmm. And a Defenders miniseries. Mm-hmm. We've had that background. But a lot of people, some people haven't. Exactly. Like, it's the fellow Defenders who have followed us for these pretty much four seasons of A Daredevil story. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ten years, Chris. Ten years, yeah. Mm-hmm. We have that background. We understand what the character is. But they had to build that character for everyone else.

[00:03:56] They had to understand that narrative and break it down. Like, we talked about breaking the character down and then building them back up. Exactly. That's what they've done. And they've done it in a way I'm like, bravo, take your lap. Go on. Go on. In your penultimate, I am like, well done. Yes, well done. Well, exactly. Exactly. And I think, you know, that's part of the challenge is they did have six episodes that were pretty much created that they had to use. They weren't going back to film everything from scratch.

[00:04:21] So you can kind of feel it here where they were, you can tell they were focusing on certain characters that needed to be in play for these last two episodes to work that may not have had as big a role in the original version of the show as they now have in this episode. But we'll get into that as we break down the episode in full. Just a reminder to our fellow Defenders, if you're not following us, you can follow us over on tvpodcastindustries.com.

[00:04:44] You can find our podcast over there, subscribe over there, or you can subscribe to any of our other channels where we're covering other shows. Lots and lots and lots of shows that we've talked about over the last 10 years and 11 years of podcasting in total, but 10 years on the Marvel side. If you want to send your thoughts to us, you can also email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. That's the same address if you want to join us for our Josie's Bar Quiz. There's another question coming up later on in the episode, even though John's not here. We do have a question from him for the episode.

[00:05:12] And if you want to join us over on our Facebook group, you can join us at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries. There's a spoiler post up there for each of the shows and episodes of those shows that we cover. And you can join us and chat there with other fellow Defenders about the episodes as well. With all that said and done, sir, should we jump into what can only be considered the episode details for this episode? Yes, let's get into the episode details. Episode name, of course, is Isle of Joy. It is an Isle of Joy, really.

[00:05:42] It seems like an oasis of joy at this show as well. The episode was directed by Jason Benson and Aaron Moorhead, who Chris mentioned earlier on. They are probably most well known to us as directors of Moon Knight. They did such a great job on that show, really set up the visual dynamic for how that series progressed. They were the lead showrunners and directors for the episodes. But they have directed loads of other episodes of shows in Loki, for example.

[00:06:10] And now here they are taking on the Daredevil show for the last two episodes as well. There are stamps all over this. It feels like this has been in the grip of new directors who want to put their stamp on the show with the color palette and with some of the excellent scenes we'll talk about later on. So I'm delighted to have the two of them back. Very much so. I heard potentially they're also doing the finale. So then they've done three episodes this season as directing credits between the two of them.

[00:06:40] Yeah, this is their second episode this season. They directed the retooled first episode of this season and are set to direct episodes for the second season, the now confirmed second season of Born Again. If they keep up this visual style into the second season, how different the show will feel and how much better. I think overall the show is going to land as well. Oh, I think so. I think very much so.

[00:07:03] But if anything, I can see this much like Shackman getting spun off to do other things after the success of One Division. I can see that for these two gentlemen if the fidelity continues through season two. Yeah. They would be graced with, all right, you've done so well. Here, take this and show us what you can do with it.

[00:07:30] But we've seen that with the director of Shang-Chi getting now the new Spider-Man, a brand new day. You do something well, you deliver multiple times, you will get recognized and given a project. And this seems to, if the quality continues, I think we're in for something nice. Yeah, and I think that's kind of the big thing here. It's almost like they were brought in to save what was there of a pretty big character for them.

[00:07:58] They didn't want to just bring Daredevil and Kingpin back, put them on Disney Plus for one season and that's it. These were big characters. We've got three seasons on Netflix. They wanted to treat the character right. And it was almost last chance to save is what it sounds like. I think they've done a great job with this episode, certainly. So let's see how the rest of the season plays out with them. Also on board for this episode is the showrunner for season two, the new showrunner for season one. As writer of the episode Darius Gardapain, formerly the showrunner for Punisher in the past as well.

[00:08:28] And this episode was written by Darius Gardapain and Jesse Wiggetu, who wrote episode four and is one of the writers on the upcoming Tron Aries as well, as we mentioned back on episode four. So very cool. Yes, and if you see the trailer, the trailer for Tron Aries is out now. Go watch it. It looks so good. It does look really fun, doesn't it? Very, very excited. I've always loved the previous two Tron movies. So looking forward to seeing the third one now. Yeah, yeah. Be cool. Great stuff.

[00:08:54] Chris, do you want to tell us what they gave us with the synopsis for Daredevil, Bored Again, episode eight, Isle of Joy? Sure. Benjamin Dex, Point Dexter, is moved from solitary confinement to general population on May Fisk Order. Worried for his life, he tries to make a deal with Matt to secure his release, but Matt is unwilling to work with his best friend's murder and leaves him with a severe gash on his forehead.

[00:09:19] With no options open to him, Dex uses the opportunity of being in the medical bay to kill a guard and get himself out of prison. Hoping to mend their relationship, Wilson Fisk reveals to Vanessa that he has imprisoned her lover Adam. Fisk tells Vanessa if he cannot be with her, he cannot be, and gives her a choice to free or kill Adam. She chooses the gun and executes her former lover. As a reward for his loyalty, Frisk promotes Daniel Blake to the Deputy Mayor of Communications.

[00:09:49] Meanwhile, Buck Cashman delivers an invite to Dr. Heather Glenn and Matt's apartment to the Mayor's Black and White Ball fundraiser. This causes Matt Murdock to realise that Fisk is Heather Glenn's patient, further straining their relationship as he contests her anti-vigilante views. Matt returns to Josie Barr and during a discussion with Cherry and Josie, he realises Foggy was celebrating an impending court win.

[00:10:16] The 90 died, so someone must have chosen to silence him using Point Dexter. At the ball, Fisk privately blackmails Jack Duquesne, who is the sword-wielding vigilante swordsman, and other socialites into supporting his port project. Commissioner Gallo speaks against Officer Powell's torture of an infiltrating reporter, but Powell tells him he's no longer his boss.

[00:10:41] Meanwhile, Bibi Orook, who is aware of Fisk's involvement in her Uncle Ben's murder, asks Commissioner Gallo to help bring down Fisk and the anti-vigilante task force through whatever means possible. Also at the party, Matt Murdock deduces that Vanessa hired Dex to kill Foggy and confronts her, as Fisk starts to tell Heather Glenn that Matt Murdock is Daredevil, Point Dexter arrives and shoots at Mayor Fisk.

[00:11:10] Matt jumps in front of the bullet and is severely wounded. In the ensuing panic, the Fisks escape, as Heather Glenn tends to Matt, who is bleeding out on the floor. And yes, what an episode, what a final moment for the episode. So much, I think, happened in this episode that, yes, it may have been sort of set up throughout the season, but I think so many people have been watching the season with all the new characters and all the twists and turns that have been had for them going,

[00:11:38] oh, well, Heather Glenn's definitely going to be shot and killed. Oh, maybe it's McBurdy that's going to be killed, or maybe it's Cherry that's going to be killed. Did anybody say it was going to be Matt that was going to get shot in this episode? Oh, yeah, okay, season two's been confirmed and it's going to happen at some point in the future. But you don't expect your main character to get shot in your penultimate episode. No, I was like, as the show and the scene was starting to go out and see Point Dexter, I literally went through every possible.

[00:12:06] I was like, oh, my God, they're going to kill Vanessa. That's going to make Fisk go off the rails. They're going to be like, oh, my God, it's going to be, oh, no, they're going to kill Heather. Oh, my God, that's Matt's critical moment. And they're just going to, they're substituting Heather for what Karen used to be in the comic books. And when they kill, oh, my God, oh, my God. Oh, no, they're going to kill Fisk. And then Vanessa is going to become the new king. I was like, all of these things.

[00:12:31] And then when you see the shot happen, I'm like, well done. I did not expect that. Exactly. Interesting. They did a really good job of moving the camera across every major character that is at that party as well. Even Daniel gets a shot on screen and BB gets a shot there. Just in case you might think a ricochet or one of them might get taken out for a different reason. So very cool. Very cool. But let's get into our case notes. As usual, we're going to talk about our top five case notes from the episode.

[00:13:01] So we'll start out with case note number one. Got to start with Point Dexter's breakout. You might wonder, fellow defenders, why I'm still calling him Point Dexter and not Bullseye, as we did throughout the synopsis here. It was because I was listening back to our season three podcast on Daredevil season three on Netflix. And I realized that throughout that we made the same decision until on screen he's called Bullseye. His name's not Bullseye. But unfortunately, his name is Point Dexter.

[00:13:31] So we have to keep calling him Point Dexter. When I was a kid, Point Dexter just meant a nerd. It was never really somebody's name. So it's very weird to have a character called Point Dexter. He's just a cool nerd. He's just a killer nerd. I wouldn't call him a nerd to his face anyway. So what do you think of this? So the opening of the episode, we have that very cool shot where we see the purple rose growing in the garden. It's got the blue filter over the top of it and as it raises off, you just see the rose being picked by another inmate.

[00:14:00] And it's actually the view of Dex looking out his window. So cool opening to bring back in this character. It's such a big role in that first episode, killing Poggy, of course, and then being sent down for life in prison. But he's being taken out of this solitary confinement by the guards there and being put into Gen Pop, into the general population. Where I guess Fisk believes he's going to be killed by someone. Yeah, he's a cop.

[00:14:28] Cops don't do well in general population if we are to believe any form of cop TV show. Or Batman. Or Batman. That's pretty much all that ever happens in Batman. Yeah. Look, this opening was fantastic. It is the first of many shots that we will discuss, which is these long single take shots, which is fantastic.

[00:14:54] Here they do one of those transitions through a window, bringing us back to Point Dexter. And I actually enjoyed this because the juxtaposition between the red for Matt and blue for Point Dexter. And it's almost the hyper fixation of Point Dexter in on something in the lines.

[00:15:20] Whereas we, and it hasn't been said this year, in this season, but with Matt having the world on fire and that we had this amazing, back in Netflix, we had this amazing visual of sound tickling off everything. And that kind of creating this almost world on fire vision for Matt. So seeing a juxtaposition of the red and the blue, just really, really cool. Yeah, they're using a very different visual trick.

[00:15:50] And I'm a soft and John have mentioned in some of the episodes you haven't been on, Chris. But the visual trick that they're using to display Matt's superpower, his vision and his hearing, or his replacement for his vision, where they're using different aspect ratios. They're using different types of zoom. So we're seeing how he's focusing in on different things without using the world on fire as they used in Netflix. It's a really, it's completely different, but it's a very cool choice to make for the show now. Yeah.

[00:16:20] And with that visualization, right? So the one they're using now, things are, that lens is slightly blurred. So it's kind of fish eyed, if you want to call it distorted around the edges. So it's like he's focusing in. Whereas if you look at that, we see Poindexter standing in front of general population as the camera kind of twists and shows him now on the other side of the bars there.

[00:16:44] Everything, all the sharpness and of those bad guys, as the world turns blue, the sharpness is pulled up. Yeah. Whereas Matt hyper focuses on a sound, a, like everything else is kind of big to sort and he can get a sound from miles away.

[00:17:05] What I assume they're trying to say from this is that Poindexter just sees what's in front of me in a sharp focus, allowing him to flick, let's say, a toenail at someone, cutting them. Or choking them. Things like that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. He definitely has a certain focus to the world, doesn't he? Yes. As well. It's so cool. So cool.

[00:17:35] Him then getting, reaching out to Matt and getting Matt trying to bring him that, that conversation's fantastic. As soon as Matt smashes his face against the table, the desk, I'm like, oh, well, there goes his tooth. That's how he's getting out. Oh, there he goes. I did get that because he comes up grinning and he's like licking the inside of his mouth. Right. So I did kind of catch, I was like, oh, right. But it was fun to see. Interesting. Interesting. And I know we have a question and feedback about this.

[00:18:05] So I'll ask you now, Chris. Do you think it was a plan from Matt? Or do you think it's an opportunistic moment from Dex? Opportunistic moment from Dex. That's my view on it because Matt's never been one about collateral damage. Well, to date. His whole thing is every life is precious as a strong Catholic man. Even the, the, like he would not kill point Dexter who killed his best friend.

[00:18:34] So I don't see it being a, I'm going to release this killer to go after Fisk. Right. Because he knows there's going to be death along the way. Yeah. Again, that's my assumption. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. Got it. That's cool. What about you? No, that's a, it's a really interesting question. I did. I didn't think about it at all. I didn't think that, that Matt had cracked his tooth or anything like that. But it does explain point Dexter, his final words to Matt when he's basically, he's been stonewalled.

[00:19:03] And the offer he's given to Matt, his final words are actually thank you when he's leaving. So it's like, as if he's realized, oh, hang on a second. He's given me an opportunity, even though it may not have been what Matt wanted. He's given me an opportunity to get myself out of here. It's a broken tooth that I can use basically. So that's really interesting that the question came in there and that you'd realize that's what he'd done. I just thought he cracked his head multiple times, but it's very brutal of Matt.

[00:19:28] Like it is literally, how dare you even expect that I would, I would come here and have a proper conversation with you after you killed my best friend. You know, what do you expect me to be? I'm not, that's supposed to be the good man in this world is supposed to be someone that defends their, their greatest enemy as, as Dex says to him. But Matt's kind of going, that's not me. How did you possibly think it would be me? But what foreshadowing? Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

[00:19:54] I know they wrote it that way, but literally it was only as it happens. I'm like, oh my God. He's jumping in front of his greatest enemy. Exactly. I was like, it's almost like they wrote it for narrative. It's almost like this isn't a documentary about a superhero. It's like it's an actual TV show. Love it. Love it. But then there's breakout itself.

[00:20:19] Again, it's about how the camera work is used to focus on these scenes. I love that it's a camera directly in Dex's face as he breaks the tooth and then uses the tooth to take out the guard. You see the camera swings around. Again, you see the guard getting hit by the tooth going off screen. And then again, focusing on Dex when he throws the two, I guess they're scalpels or two pieces of scissors. It couldn't work out which. Scissors. He breaks the scissors.

[00:20:48] He breaks the scissors. Yeah. Yeah. But you don't see the impact. You see the aftermath. It's just a cool choice because you still feel the violence of it, even though you're just seeing the aftermath of the violence of it. But you hear the doctor falling over. You hear the death of the guard who's shouting in pain from the tooth in his face. You hear his death as the piece of the scissors goes into his head as well. But it's a cool choice as he walks out with the guard's uniform on.

[00:21:13] Which, if I am to make any complaints, the next scene with Point Dexter kind of is like, eh, where he gets on the, they have to scan their IDs. Mm-hmm. And he gets onto the bus. Yeah. I'm like, those IDs, which we had seen, look like they had a photo. Yeah. Of the person.

[00:21:35] So I'm like, the ethnicity of the guard that he killed was not Point Dexter's ethnicity. He didn't look very like the guard. Yes, at all. I guess the understanding is that they're just, everybody's just tired. Everybody's had a hard day. Okay. Don't check them every day. But it is a question I always have. I've worked in massive companies with thousands of employees.

[00:22:02] If somebody came in and sat down beside me on the bus home from the office that I worked in, I'd probably recognize that they didn't work there. Yeah. If I was one of the most wanted men in New York and had been in that place for a couple of months as well, and I was another guard on board that bus, I'd probably recognize them. But for the fact that he gets out and it is a comic book show, we're going to give it to them. We're going to give it to them.

[00:22:28] It's in everything from, you know, Star Wars with throwing on the Stormtrooper outfits, you know, from that all the way through our entire history of nerdism has somebody putting on the costume of the officer and nobody notices, even though it could be the person they eat dinner with every day for their entire life working there.

[00:23:14] That's fair. And the ending, which we'll talk about later, that I remembered how much I enjoyed this actor in this role in the previous season. I was like, oh, yeah, he plays a real good psycho. Well, really well. So, yeah, that was just for me. It was just like, oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And as long as they don't, which I don't think they would, but it is a Marvel problem where they kill off some of their best villains.

[00:23:43] I don't think they'll kill him off in the next. I can't wait to see more of him because he is he's a mainstay in Daredevil. So if we see see more of him next episode and maybe a bit more in season two, I'm happy. I'm happy with that. He's certainly a big character. And interestingly, the showrunner for Daredevil on Netflix was talking last week about his plan, his plan for the next couple of seasons of Daredevil, if it had continued on on Netflix.

[00:24:08] And he said that the season after the one that we saw where Dex gets put in prison at the end and wasn't going to include Bullseye. It was going to be a season off for him. It was going to be a season featuring Typhoid Mary. And then the season after it, that's the one that would have Bullseye return. It would be a proper Bullseye season because we had the Dex season beforehand where he gets created as a villain. Then he comes back in season five as a villain.

[00:24:31] So again here, as I mentioned earlier on, again, we're still calling him Boyndexter because he's not Bullseye yet, even though he has even more abilities than he had back in the Netflix series. But you're right. If he gets put away one more time and then comes back out in a costume, he could be Bullseye for another couple of appearances. Yeah, I'm hoping so. But should we move on to case note number two? Absolutely. Poor old Adam.

[00:25:00] We're going to go on to the death of Adam because Wilson Fisk finally reveals what he did to Adam and what he has been doing to Adam, which is, as he introduces it, well, not killing him. I did keep my promise, Vanessa. I've not killed him. He's right there. Look, you can see him with your own eyes. What an interesting way to seal their relationship again. You know, nobody else, no other relationship has these kind of complications about them where you have two kingpins in the family, basically.

[00:25:27] So how do you sort out marital problems when you have two kingpins in the family? You can't walk away from each other because you know each other's secrets. You know literally where the bodies are buried, right? So to sort it out, look, I understand. I was away for a while. You had a relationship with this guy. Okay, so your choice is either you set him free or you shoot him in the head and then we can rekindle our relationship and go on together.

[00:25:54] It's basically this scene with Wilson Fisk and Vanessa. Wow. And then the choice she makes, which is take the gun and shoot her lover multiple times, even though he's pleading. He had no idea about how bad this was going to get. He had no involvement. And Vanessa is agreeing to that. She's agreeing that Adam had no real way of knowing that this is how everything would end up. But she still shoots him multiple times and then puts a final bullet in his head just to make sure.

[00:26:22] It reminded me of the sit down scene in season three of the original Daredevil series where we see Vanessa for the original scary lady that she is. Yep. It reminded me very much of that, which is, again, we learn that she is as pragmatic as Fisk.

[00:26:46] She is, if not in the comic books previously, Vanessa was just the wife. She was not the character that Vanessa is in very much these series, where is an equal to Fisk. She was the kingpin while he was not around. She doesn't actually get there in the comics, but yes, when created originally, yes, she was just a partner of Wilson Fisk. Yes. Sorry. Exactly. Sorry. I thank you for correcting that.

[00:27:16] But I just mean in here, we are very much see how she is, that they are the two psychos connect. They are peas in a pod, if you will. They're not yin and yang. They are similar people. There's a reason they're together, yes. Exactly. I was curious how they were going to almost bring these couple back together. Uh-huh.

[00:27:43] In the understanding of what we have seen previously on, um, throughout this season of, like, they were estranged. And I did see almost, like, they're trying to set it up that Vanessa is going to leave. Like, they were probably at some point in a previous iteration of this. That is what they were looking at. I think they were probably trying to almost set it back to everything back to a zero state. So you get rid of Vanessa. You get rid of it.

[00:28:13] Whereas here, correctly, I view they've done the correct thing, which is putting these two back together again creates an almost unstoppable force against Daredevil. Because you have the first man and first lady of New York. Yeah. While also having this cutthroat, two cutthroat kingpins of crime.

[00:28:43] Yeah. Like, even complimentary on the way in, he's going, you know, maybe I haven't said how much all of the things that I'm doing are dependent on the things that you've done while I was away. The way you handled our finances, the way you handled the business, cleaning everything up. That's part of the reason why he's able to achieve the things he's achieving. Yeah. The money that he's able to funnel through this support project. All of that is because of what Vanessa has done, how she's run the business differently to the way he is.

[00:29:11] But I also love, even though he is changing, even though he's, you know, he's moving into this kind of more mayor role. In these moments with Adam in the background, Wilson Fisk that we know from all the time we've seen him in the past, his really violent side is coming out as well. The frustration, the anger, the moment where he could just break the neck of someone in front of him.

[00:29:34] Those are also coming out while he's being pleaded with by Adam, which I love. And then Vanessa, as I say, shoots him in the head and then their relationship is back on. There's such a great shot that Benson and Moorhead get where the two of them hug to seal that she's just killed her lover. And the camera focuses on his head in the background. Yeah. It doesn't focus on the two of them. It focuses on the dead guy in the background. It's just such a great little choice.

[00:30:04] Exactly. Yeah. Really good. And they're back now. And they're back now. And then that sets us up for not just the remainder of this episode and into the next, into setting up the main party and the reveal of who was behind everything, which is not something I actually expected. But we can chat more about that later. Exactly.

[00:30:27] Isn't it amazing to think, given the scenes that we're seeing here, it's amazing to think that the original version of this show, Aylid Zuer, had been replaced in the role of Vanessa. Another actress was playing her. They'd written the role completely differently. Exactly. All of these scenes with her being acted here were brand new scenes written with Darius Garda Payne involvement in the show. Isn't that amazing to think they wouldn't have brought her back? They would have just replaced her with a different actress. She wasn't available at the time when they were doing the original filming. That's the reason. That's the reason they gave.

[00:30:55] But D'Onofrio and Charlie Cox and the new showrunners said, we have to have Vanessa involved in the show. We have to get Aylid Zuer back in. If we're going to retool the show, bring her in. How much different would it have been if the character of Vanessa had just become the housewife to Wilson Fisk's kingpin and Mayor Fisk? If she'd just been a basic playing character, which seems to have been the way they were going to go with it. She wasn't going to have these scenes. They were all tooled for this version of the show. Amazing to think.

[00:31:26] And that's just amazing, flabbergasting. Because I'm just, as much as I love this season and I'm kind of cut out of the bag, I love this season. And I can't wait to see season two. I am morbidly fascinated with what could have been and what would have been the original season. Season one.

[00:31:49] I think that, as we said, the one thing that really I can see is the episode of The Bank, for example. Yeah. That was apparently largely unchanged from how it was originally put. There's a couple of lines that are in there to tie it into other episodes. And the courtroom episode, the White Tiger episode, that's pretty similar. So it feels like you would have much more of, as I think we mentioned this before, much more of a drama version of the She-Hulk show. Where there's lots of stuff in court with Matt defending people.

[00:32:18] And it's all building to the end of the series where Matt puts on the mask for the first time. You see him as Daredevil. So a little bit of season one of Daredevil on Netflix and a little bit of the She-Hulk show. All merged together to make a Disney Plus six episode drama show with Matt Murdock mostly not in the suit. And him and Wilson Fisk not meeting until the end of the season was pretty much the idea that we think has happened. But there's just these little tidbits of, why would you have cast a different actor there?

[00:32:47] Would it have played the same at all? Or is it because Eilid Zura and Vincent D'Onofrio have such a strong relationship in the previous seasons that their scenes work so much better? I don't know. I don't know what the other actors actually delivered. She could have been amazing in the role and completely different. But that's the big difference here, I think. Yeah. Well, for me, there is a... Not just because I enjoyed them in the previous season. But for me, she does embody Vanessa. Yeah.

[00:33:15] The same way Debra and Wall embodies Karen. Mm-hmm. And there will only be one Foggy. Yeah. And I think... I know some fans would say, oh, well, we wanted them back because they were with that. I think it's very much almost like when you take...

[00:33:38] When someone takes a character and we've yet to see them really kind of on the silver screen or golden screen or any screen. I think once they take it and run for as long as they did, three seasons is not anything to be kind of joke at. I can only see Vincent D'Onofrio as Kingpin now. Right. I remember what other characters and other takes are. But he is that quintessential. Mike Black Duncan, of course. Yeah.

[00:34:07] He is that quintessential now. And it's the same with Samuel L. Jackson. He is now my quintessential Nick Fury. Mm-hmm. Because he has, for the guts of nearly 20 years, embodied what that take on that character... What a take on that character, which then spun out into almost the arc matching the idea later on. Yeah.

[00:34:32] And I know, again, sacrilege slightly with Nick Fury with you, but I just mean in that character... He didn't get a bloody chair for the Avengers Doomsday premiere, did he? They have said they're not finished yet. They're calling. He's still being punished for secret invasion. I know. Exactly. Exactly. I just think... I can't wait to see more of them. And I think that's where I was a bit shocked moving into our next case note, right? Mm-hmm. Let's move on to case note number three. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:04] I think it's time to party, Chris. Let's get on to the black and white party. Because there's so much happening here. This feels like something that probably should have been set up a lot earlier in the season, that there's this moment when all these characters are going to be together. But it kind of starts off as an invite being delivered in the morning to Heather Glenn at Matt Murdock's apartment by Buck Cashman, which I love that it's only when it's said in...

[00:35:33] It's only when it's said in dialogue by Matt Murdock, Buck, how would Buck Cashman know to come to my apartment to find Heather Glenn? The psychologist or psychiatrist working with... Or the marriage counsellor working with Fisk and his wife. Why would he come to my apartment? How did he know that? I love it. Because it didn't cross my mind at all until Matt asked the question. And Buck's response going, well, Mayor Fisk likes to keep an eye on the important people in his life and in the city.

[00:36:02] Well, that's not any kind of comfort at all, is it? So Matt rightly puts two and two together. Based on the invitation to the black and white party, he puts two and two together and going, oh, the reason why he's a client of yours was because he knows exactly who you are. He knows you're connected to me. And he's now in my life and your life. That's why he's using you. And she can't confirm anything. She can't say he's even a client. But it kicks off the whole argument between the two of them.

[00:36:29] But it's all because of that invite to the black and white party, which I love. Do you feel, because we understand the timeline with Buck, do you feel the psychiatrist that she was chosen by Buck? Do you feel that is the reason? Or do you feel it is a lucky happenstance, a coincidence that did turn into something fantastic?

[00:36:58] Because there was the date, but then there was the book launch. But in theory, the date and the book launch don't happen. They happen before Matt and Wilson Fisk sitting down in the diner. So has he always been keeping an eye on Matt and being very close?

[00:37:24] For me, it was a bit like, I think it was a happy coincidence. It's interesting you say that because the conversation in the diner between the two of them confirms that both Wilson Fisk and Matt Murdock are constantly keeping tabs on each other. They know information that neither of them should know unless they're keeping tabs on each other. Matt says to him, your daughter tried to shoot you in the head, right? Oh, yeah.

[00:37:50] Yeah, so, and Fisk is saying to him, when's the last time you were out as Daredevil, basically. So the two of them are keeping tabs on each other, and that's confirmed in that diner scene. But I think part of it is Buck was sent out to get somebody to mediate between Wilson and Vanessa. But there's an opportunity there, and he took the opportunity to bring in Heather Glenn. That's the perfect person. There's a connection to Matt.

[00:38:18] And now, maybe they didn't find out the connection, but as soon as they found out the connection, well, Wilson Fisk now has something to hold over Matt. So the second they found it out, I'm sure that was the plan always. We can now use this as well. It's interesting, when it gets to the party, the first interaction that we have is between, one of the first interactions that we see with Heather is between her and Vanessa, where she comes over and basically says to her, thanks very much for coming along tonight. We don't need your services anymore. We've resolved all of our issues.

[00:38:48] Thanks for all your help. Drink the gorgeous champagne here. So from that point onwards, the only reason Heather is actually at the party is for Wilson Fisk to reveal to her that Matt is Daredevil. Yeah. I guess, right? Yeah. Thanks very much for all your help, of course, as well. Yeah, of course. We're back together, stronger than ever, killing people together. Together.

[00:39:11] I'm very interested to see where Heather character goes. Hmm. Because it is setting up her as a foil, as a potential foil between the two. Or foil for Matt, I should say. Yeah.

[00:39:32] And on top of that, a person who now actively disagrees with the persona that is a vigilante. Absolutely. Yeah. Which is a fun trope. Yeah. The man falling for the girl that hates what the man is. Yeah. She's totally on Wilson Fisk's side. She's been bought into my... I absolutely love the argument, to be honest.

[00:39:59] Just the idea that Matt has pieced all of it together going, the only reason he wants you there is to use your trauma. Use it to get more money out of people for his project. Don't expect him to be friends. Don't expect anything out of him. That's what he wants you there for. Or his whole anti-vigilante thing is something that he wants you on the side of. And then she kind of goes, well, I am on the side of that. That's exactly what I believe. The two vigilantes that came into the room. One of them wanted to kill me. The other one wanted to kill him. I'm the one that saved myself, she says to Matt. And Matt's kind of going, hang on a second.

[00:40:28] I think I had something to do with it, didn't I? But yeah, but no, she's convinced that there's no need for vigilantes in the city. She's got her convinced. So how does Matt have that relationship with her now that he's gone back to his vigilante ways? It will all depend on the next couple of episodes, of course. Absolutely. Let's wait and see where we are. It was getting more and more tense as the episode went on between the two of them.

[00:40:52] I love that moment when Matt walks in late and then they're having the conversation and he just drifts off to listen in to another conversation. Heather says to him, you're not even listening to me now, are you? And we know because we're following what Matt's doing. He hasn't a clue what she's saying to him. It's like, that's just another argument, whatever. I'll move on to more important things. My real love is Wilson Fisk and what's going on. But it's such, I think this is a fantastically put together scene.

[00:41:22] Again, old dialogue. Nobody's in any kind of superhero suits. Nobody's in any massive outfit. Everybody's wearing gorgeous outfits. But the intro to this scene as it goes around the party is just absolutely brilliant. I didn't even notice the first time I watched it where it starts out with the conversation between Sheila and Daniel. A brilliant conversation after Daniel's become the new deputy mayor. The line between the two of them where Sheila's kind of going, oh, don't worry. I wasn't telling you you're not right for the job. I'm telling you're too young for the job.

[00:41:51] Maybe in a few years time you'll be ready for it. And Daniel's response to her is saying, I'm not worried. I used to be worried about being on the same side of you. I'm no longer worried about that. It's just a beautifully written response. It's effectively Daniel going, I know you're on the wrong side now, Sheila. And I don't want to be involved with you anymore. We put Sheila in even more of the crosshairs than she has been for most of the season. It's like, you're done now. I don't need you anymore.

[00:42:18] I got made deputy mayor by going against everything you told me was the right way to deal with the new mayor. So really, really good. But it follows Daniel around. He has another conversation with Bebe. And then as their conversation fades out, you see the commissioner behind them. The camera pans over him. It cuts to Jack Duquesne as he meets one of the other socialites, Artemis, whose husband has now gone missing. So probably taken out because of the horrible words she said to Wilson Fisk. The horrible word was no.

[00:42:49] So it then cuts to Heather trying to reach Matt on the phone. But all of this in one continuous movement, like as if it's a stage play as the cameras are moving in and out of each of these characters to catch all of their conversations. I thought it was beautifully done. Really, really just stood out for the episode. Oh, 100%. And it's the focus, the camera focus on the conversations really allow you to just hyper focus on what those important bits are.

[00:43:16] So seeing Artemis going, and Jack Duquesne making his jokey quips, moving that forward into Fisk blackmailing them in the individual rooms. Again, calling out that Jack is the swordsman in the side. Which I think some people did miss the little swordsman newscast. Yeah.

[00:43:46] So it was a blink and you'll miss it very quickly. But yes, he is a vigilante himself. And we talked about it back in Hawkeye as well. But I love, you know, again, underneath it all, Fisk has been saying he's changed. Fisk has been saying he's a mayor. This is the first time it's really confirmed to us as the audience. Fisk hasn't changed at all. He's just using different tools. Yes. He's going, right, I want to get rid of all the vigilantes. Well, actually, he's not going to put Jack Duquesne in prison if he can use Jack Duquesne. If he can use this knowledge he has about him to get the money that he needs for his project.

[00:44:15] Well, then Jack Duquesne can go about being a vigilante or not. But that doesn't matter to him. He just wants the money, basically. Yeah. But he finds multiple ways. And that's what you get from that one scene with Jack is that Wilson Fisk has this information about all of the other socialites that he needs the money out of. Because throughout the rest of the episode, you keep hearing him, keeps coming back to him going, just remember, I'll be in contact with your financial director tomorrow morning to get that money from you that you've just agreed to.

[00:44:45] So there's something that he said to each of them to get them on his side. It's a cool, cool moment. Very, very. And then we do get to see Bibi. She is at this party as well. She chats with Daniel and we see them mend their friendship initially. What we led to believe is Bibi mending their relationship with the deputy mayor for communications.

[00:45:13] Well, we'll talk about it in a second because I want to talk about Bibi herself for a big reveal at the moment. But she mends it because he tells her I'm now deputy mayor of communications because of the help you gave me. So she kind of instantly goes, oh, that's quite a high position. Grounds. So I guess at that moment you probably think that's very quick. She's very angry at him when she arrives, being forced to write the story that he asked her to write.

[00:45:40] But it's later on you get the confirmation as to why she really takes that up. But I do absolutely love his line to her where he says to her, I got this job by doing what I'm doing. And as long as I'm in, I'm going to run like hell until somebody tells me to stop. I don't care about people telling me that's not the way you do things. He is now fully an acolyte of Wilson Fisk. He is fully on board with anything Wilson Fisk tells him to do.

[00:46:08] He tells him in the room when he gets made deputy mayor, I'll burn for you. This guy is a true believer in the cult of Wilson Fisk now. But I love that moment of him telling I'm going to run like hell until somebody tells me to stop because I know I'm doing it. I know I'm on the right path for what Fisk wants me to do. Yeah. Fab. Have you heard the rumor? The one that's kind of doing the rounds at the moment about Daniel? There's a few rumors that I've heard.

[00:46:37] One is that it's a long lost son from another marriage. The other one is that he shaves his head and becomes the new kingpin after Vincent D'Oprio decides to leave the role. He'll be the young upstart who takes over from him. So that's the current theory doing the rounds. Because there's a new theory every week. Yeah. I'm always really careful with theories because all these episodes are actually released. So somebody's seen the episodes and I'm always really careful about theories.

[00:47:06] Yes, exactly. So this one for me was the I don't think there's anything to this because. Yeah. So the main one that is doing the rounds is that Daniel is an illegitimate son of the kingpin and that is why he is the man that he is. And I'm like, no. Yeah, that's a story. But the better story is what you said, which is this man will burn.

[00:47:32] He is wholeheartedly an acolyte of Wilson Fisk. The man, the myth, the kingpin, the legend, the mayor. That is a better story. And I think that is what people have kind of misinterpreted as this father-son devotion as a relationship. I'm like, no, no, no. This is just, yeah, maybe Daniel would look good with a shaved head and being like a new younger version of kingpin at some point.

[00:48:01] Maybe we'll see where that takes us in a few years. I think for now, the story is of what Daniel will do for this. And as you said, that line, I'm going to run like hell until someone tells me to stop. We've all been there. We all remember in our first couple of jobs where we worked 40, 80, 90 hour weeks because you're like, yeah, I need that money. Give me, give me, give me. I'm going to do good.

[00:48:27] So, yeah, I just, it's interesting to see where they take this character further. Chris is not speaking on behalf of all the people in the TV podcast industry. I never worked more than my 35 or 40 hours a week, whatever I was contracted to. Once the whistle blew, I was out of there. Yes, because you worked in a place where the whistle, like a coal mine factory? Well, close. I worked in a call center. So once the lines shut off, I had 10 minutes afterwards to wrap up my day and then I was out in the pub. That was it. Okay. I did not.

[00:48:54] And I worked the 60 hour, 80 hour weeks. I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that policy. TV podcast industry does not endorse working more than contractuals. And anybody that makes you work longer than your working hours in a week, especially if they're not paying you for it. Anyway, enough about work practices. Let's move on to our case note number four. We're still the black and white party, of course, but we need to talk about the anti-vigilante task force because they really step it up in this episode.

[00:49:22] We've seen a little bit of them represented by Powell in the last couple of episodes, but they kind of step it up in this episode. They're the personal guard of Wilson Fisk, it seems. Yeah, they really, exactly. It's better putting it. They are his legitimized gang. They are his new muscle. Yeah. Outside of his illegitimate gang and muscle. Because he still has those to a degree. Like, we've seen parts of them.

[00:49:51] And just seeing Powell pull this reporter into a side passage who is dressed as, yes, the reporter is undercover and is dressed as a waiter. But you see the violence streak, the above the law, the judge dread, I am the law style. And again, just we knew these, we know this task force is the worst of the worst.

[00:50:18] We know they're not, they're all willing to go that extra mile, as Fisk puts it. So seeing how the commissioner kind of tries to stop them. And then as the commissioner comes in to try and stop Powell and his partner, you see more of them filed in behind. Yeah. And it is then just at that point like, okay, yeah. Like, just even the commissioner is like, yeah, whatever. Okay. Doesn't matter. I am your boss. No, you're not. Okay.

[00:50:47] Well, at this point, he's just resigned to the fact that he has lost control. Yeah. But there's also that old phrase in there that really typifies what Powell is like here. The drunk with power. Yes. Phase is what Powell is in right now. He's looking at us. Is it still his boss? I know the mayor has taken over this task force, but he's the guy that basically signed his paychecks for 20 years, I guess. He's looking at him going, you can't do anything about this.

[00:51:16] I'm going to fry this guy's hand right in front of you. Like, he really feels like he's untouchable at that moment. So it really feels like, as I say, drunk on power for Powell. But God, that guy really needs to be taken out. I really hope that he is someone that Matt takes out next episode. I hate him. I think you're supposed to. I think. Oh, yeah, of course. I don't think. The actor's great, obviously. Yeah. I don't. I think he may return and punish her. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I think that's he.

[00:51:46] He's one of our. He's. They're setting him up to be so. Distasteful. Yeah. You're like, OK, you're not going to mind him getting punished by the Punisher. Yeah. And we know that these were a contingent within the police force have co-opted that Punisher logo. I feel this is a good setup.

[00:52:11] But that being said, I felt many of these theories in our lifetime of covering Daredevil shows and episodes. Not all of them have been right. So let's wait and see as he gets shot by points extra in the first 10 seconds of the next episode. You never you never know. But I would say that is probably going to be where what the Punisher show is going to be based on. I think you're totally right with that.

[00:52:37] The idea of him going after the the anti-vigilante task force or at least the the people misusing his symbol is very likely what that story of Frank Castle's next one shot is going to be kind of cool. And the other thing I wanted to talk about in this here was the big reveal from B.B. Uric because it's on the basis of this anti-vigilante task force. She finally reveals that she does have something else going on. She's not just the niece of a reporter who has her own YouTube channel.

[00:53:05] And it's all much, much bigger than that, which we had hoped for when the characters introduced, I think, in that first episode or second episode. We first got to hear that it's B.B. Uric. That's not just, oh, well, Ben Uric's dead. So we can't use him in the show. So we'll create a niece. Yeah. OK, that's fine. We can still tell the same story. This is someone that knows Wilson Fisk was responsible for the murder of her uncle.

[00:53:30] And she's going after Wilson Fisk with using the methods that he would have taught her, which I really like. You know, we first hear her mention it to to Daniel. She says, are we standing up for ourselves? Are we standing up to to the bad things in the world? Is that because that's what my uncle always told told me I should be doing? And then we hear it in the discussion with with the commissioner when she asks him for for some information. And he says, are you working tonight? You know, I read that piece that you wrote.

[00:54:00] When did you become the minister of communications? And BB responds. But at the same time, you became the head of his SS, which I love. These two people who effectively recently have been used for what they can do for Wilson Fisk and are teaming up to take on Wilson Fisk with the knowledge that they have. Very cool. Yeah. I'm interested to see what these other ways, these other names, non-deplumes that she writes under. She suggested that she writes under other names.

[00:54:31] Yeah, maybe she's writing under Peter Parker since that name is no longer being used. Yeah, exactly. It was wiped from everywhere. Peter B. Parker. That's it. BB Parker. There you go. Maybe that's it. But yes, I really like it. I'm so glad it's come out now. I wish again, it's one of those things. If the show had been done a different way, maybe that would have been the character from the beginning. You would have known she was doing the investigation. But I like this reveal, at least, that she does have much more to her character. No, exactly.

[00:54:59] And I can't wait to see what we get with this and how this kind of... I'm just hoping that she doesn't end up the same way as her poor uncle. But I can see them almost doing that, having Daniel having to do something. Maybe. They're building up a good story there. Or maybe she's the one that takes out Daniel. Maybe that would be a cool little twist. Oh, that would be a good one. Yeah. Excellent stuff.

[00:55:29] That's our case note number four. Going to move on to our final case note. Case note five. The first and last dance. About Murdoch. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. Yeah, this is just how it all culminates together. And again, so interesting. These two major characters, Fisk and Murdoch haven't shared the screen pretty much at all since that diner scene at the beginning of the season.

[00:55:55] Throughout the season, it's all been about their journey coming back to who they were in the past, but completely separate paths. And now we have them in the same room together. And from the minute Matt walks into the room, he is drawn to just watching Fisk or following Fisk. There's a great moment when they have their first dance. Vanessa and Fisk, not Matt and Fisk. Vanessa and Fisk have their first dance and they come out on the floor beautifully attired in his white suit and her red dress.

[00:56:22] And as the music is playing, this jazz standard, I guess, about New York, as it's playing, the music starts to melt out as Matt is watching Fisk. And it's all distorted and all weird as he's focusing on his enemy. I thought that was really cool. And his enemy starts talking to him while dancing with Vanessa. Awesome.

[00:56:43] Just such a clever use of Fisk understanding who Daredevil is, how he works and what he can do. And just getting that. They're having this conversation. It needed an extra beat of almost Matt responding because I was just hoping for that.

[00:57:03] Well, his response, because he can't let Heather know that he has heard this conversation from Fisk and he's dancing with her. His response is immediately to tell Heather, get out of here. If anything goes down at all, here's what you need to do. These are the steps you need to take because he's suddenly, uh-oh, Wilson Fisk knows exactly why I'm here. Wilson Fisk is talking to me directly. And it didn't take a massive machine like the signing machine that he built to talk to Echo.

[00:57:33] You know, he didn't like drop a drop into Matt's ears to make him visually able to see him or something. God, that would have been cool. Sorry. No, it would not have been cool. Here's some new glasses. Put these on, Matt. They can suddenly make you see again. And just because I want to tell you this five-second conversation. But no, it was really cool to just see because, again, it's Wilson's knowledge of Matt as the foe. It's very cool. Yeah, no, 100%.

[00:57:59] And then as that progresses and how that progresses, we get the reveal that it was Vanessa. Vanessa was the one behind the Foggy and sending Point Dexter to kill Foggy because of the case. Because that was where she was laundering some money as the kingpin. Which, again, only when you cop the Matt's kind of piece in Josie's bar as they piece together.

[00:58:28] It did take me a second to go, oh, yeah, Foggy was working on a case that's been in the background. It's about embezzlement money. Blah, blah. Pieces just like click, click, click, click, click, click. Exactly. Exactly. But just how this then starts to really ramp up. The tension is ramped ever so much every couple of seconds. Yeah. As Matt then jumps in and grabs Vanessa and starts that conversation.

[00:58:56] But also, as Buck reveals that Point Dexter's on his way and Vanessa goes, oh, hang on a second. He can't arrive before I tell Wilson that I'm the one that ordered the hit on Foggy. She's like, I need to tell you something right now. And he goes, no, no, we can't talk about anything like that while we're waiting right here. Probably because Matt's within earshot. And then Matt whisks her away, said the two of them.

[00:59:18] So she never gets to tell Wilson Fisk that she's the one that hired Point Dexter, which is really interesting after everything that happened with Adam earlier on as well. And as it then continues, because we see them Point Dexter slowly making his way up to the balcony. We see Fisk dancing with Heather, trying to tell Heather. And you see it just culminates. It's almost as the music swells in the background as well.

[00:59:45] It's just, it is this kind of, best you can put it, is this cacophony of jazz. Where, you know, there's disparate scenes and notes that are very jarring as it cuts and flashes. And again, it's why some of these two directors, they've done some very, I want to say bold choices. Because that is the best way. Like, they've taken colors and shots and focuses.

[01:00:14] And this is one as well. As it is not just panning, it is whip panning at one point. Like, literally all, we've seen it done before where you have a behind the scenes where a guy's on a camera on a thing. So it was tapping on the shoulder as he, so he whips one way and then whips again back and forth.

[01:00:33] Just such a jarring kind of scene culminating in the click, click as you see or you hear, I should say. Yeah. The gun being about chamber loading and about to fire. Yeah, and you have it all through Matt's ears, I guess. Through his version of Vision, where he's focusing on everything around him.

[01:01:03] Even though he's also hearing a conversation where Fisk is about to reveal his identity to his girlfriend, you know. But he's still going, oh, there's something else at play here. He knows Point Dexter's on the way because of Book's conversation. But then the shot gets taken. As we mentioned up front, that moment as it pans around the crowd, because it's picking out all of your major characters that are here. Who's he going to shoot? Who's the one that he's going to take out? Is it going to be Vanessa for hiring him? Is it going to be Matt for leaving him in prison? Is it going to be Fisk for moving him to Genpop?

[01:01:33] Is it going to be Heather accidentally? But it's Fisk. He takes the shot on Fisk and Matt's the one that jumps in the way and takes the bullet falling to the ground. As the Fisks get whisked out of there. I never thought I would get through saying Fisks get whisked. But as they get taken out by his private guard with Matt left on the floor in Heather's arms, blood everywhere. And then it cuts to that overhead shot with the red filter over it.

[01:02:04] This is a comic book cover. I know it is. But the only one I can think of is the death of Captain America, where we see it through the sniper rifle. He's on the steps and the blood is around him when the shot's been taken. I can't think of another one where someone's in the arms of their love as they're dying on the steps. I'm sure it's another one. Death of Superman, maybe? Yeah, there's one there where Death of Superman is dying out in Lois Lane's arms. That was one.

[01:02:34] There is the Ultimate Universe, Death of Spider-Man, where Punisher takes out Spider-Man. Oh, spoilers, I guess. For like a decade old comic book, sorry. That Ultimate Universe is well gone. Yes, literally, there's a new version of it. The Ultimate Universe has its out-beter-parker there, yeah. Yeah. There is one, and I can see this cover, similar to you.

[01:03:03] We're just waiting for someone to Easter egg it out. It's going to be an obscure one. It's going to be a 1980s comic or early 90s with Todd McFarlane flair, that time style. Maybe, or as I say, it's going to be one that we already mentioned. I'm going to plump for Captain America. That's the one I'm going to plump for. But we'll probably find out next week. But what a way to end the episode. It's really cool.

[01:03:30] And, you know, is Poindex going to be really annoyed that he was made miss a shot and took out Matt instead of Fisk? Don't know. I doubt it. I think he's just going to take another shot. But, again, another great visual. We saw earlier on that Vanessa, after Vanessa took out Adam, you see it panned to the Rabbid and Snowstorm painting with the blood on it. So, blood on the white background.

[01:03:56] Here we have, when Matt takes the bullet and falls to the ground, Fisk's entire white suit is covered in Matt's blood. So, another little visual touch there in the show. Loved it. Yeah. I'm interested to see it. I'm sorry to kind of put it into this way, which is, it's a choice to do this. It's been hinted that Matt has some form of kind of accelerated healing. It's been hinted. Kind of. Like, just because, again, he takes a beating multiple times. He does. And he takes multiple beats.

[01:04:26] So, it's kind of, he's special. We usually see those bruises and his batter for months on end and then they do a time jump and then he's okay. So, I'm just interested to see how you put, when you shot a character through the chest. Yeah. Shoulder chest. Still. Shoulder. Shoulder means not dead. It's fine.

[01:04:47] He's not dead, but it's just, you can't put him in the suit next episode unless he is some form of, unless you kind of like, they do the old kind of adage of like, get him some adrenaline and shoot him in the arm and patch him up. And he jumps out of the moving thing with a load of like EpiPens just sticking them into himself. Night nurse back next week. Confirmed. Sorry, Dawson's coming back. It's interesting. It's just, no.

[01:05:16] It's a, I could see you doing this on like the finale of the season. Right. Like, that's your cliffhanger. So, I'm so interested to see where you take it in your finale. I think you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to come up with a way around this and the easy way is that they just do a time jump and next week he's back on the path for Wilson Fisk. And he's in the suit for the final episode.

[01:05:46] Six months later. Exactly. That's what it'll be. In probably three weeks is probably what it'll be. But we don't know. We don't know. But that's probably the way they'll do it so that they can put him in the suit for the final episode. 12 years later. Yep. Yep. And Daniel is now Wilson Fisk taking over as mayor of the city as the new kickpin. There you go. Excellent stuff. Any notes about the episode? Anything else you want to talk about the episode that we didn't mention, Chris? No, just the band.

[01:06:13] You very quickly mentioned the band in the ball. I think they were just fantastic. Very, that quintessential New York jazz kind of, I want to say quartet. But just very... But there might have a fire rhythm. We don't know. Yeah. But just very much when you think of New York jazz, what the mind goes to. And it just fits so well in with the style of what that ball was.

[01:06:42] So just a hat tip to that music choice. Absolutely. They were very cool. What about yourself? I like it. No major extra notes for the episode. We talked a lot there. But the one thing I did want to mention is who would have thought that the whiskey watch that we've been doing throughout the season would have been such a big plot point. The whiskey at Josie's bar, which I think was our first question and our first pub quiz.

[01:07:09] The whiskey at Josie's bar is the thing that gets Matt to connect everything together. He knows that whiskey is only drunk when you know you definitely have won a case and Foggy is celebrating beforehand. So he knew he had the case won. That whole thing is all pieced together around a bottle of whiskey. Well done to the whiskey watchers out there and the ones that obviously know how important whiskey is to the Daredevil series. Exactly. And the Jessica Jones series. Absolutely. Absolutely. Great stuff.

[01:07:38] I think that's it about the points. Notes on the episode. Chris, do you defend Daredevil? Born Again, Season 1, Episode 8. I do. And I would give this five bleeding mats out of five. Mm-hmm. On the floor. Bleeding out. Slowly dying. No. Fantastic. I already kind of mentioned literally at the top of this episode how happy I am with how this season has kind of set up the new foundation. And I'm interested to see where it ends this season.

[01:08:08] But just so enthused about how they have really taken what this series is and was and just made it this born again version. So yeah. No. Really do defend this. What about yourself? Do you defend this episode of Daredevil? Oh, absolutely. This is a great episode of Daredevil. Born Again. I'd give it five broken teeth in the eyes out of five. Ooh. As well. This is just excellent.

[01:08:36] I think they've picked up all of the pieces from the season and turned them into great moments in this episode. There's some great moments for each of the characters that we've had from earlier on in the season. It's great to revisit Josie's. It's great to bring back Poindexter again for this big moment. And that ball was fantastic. Really loved it.

[01:08:56] But the visual touches from the directors and the writing touches from the new showrunner leading us into the final episode and then going into the second season give me even more hope for more great Daredevil stories coming up in the future. So yes. Absolutely defend this episode. Fantastic stuff. With all of that salivating from watching everyone else drink the fantastic champagne at the ball. Should we head on over to Josie's pub for a wee tipple ourselves? I think we should. I think we should.

[01:09:26] But before we do, just one tiny comment that I didn't make that I did think was really funny. Do kids these days not know what shots are, Chris? As our youngest member of the team, you have to tell me because there's definitely twice that Daniel says to BB, will we do shots? And then they end up in the champagne glass. That's not a shot. That's a glass of champagne. It's just a very big shot. Let's do shots of champagne in a glass. I'm okay doing that.

[01:09:54] I will take at least four shots of champagne over the course of a period of a night. And then you'll be on your ear, Chris. No, just like because it's four shots of champagne. So four glasses of champagne across the night. It'd be fun. That'd be great. That's how they got to 4am the last time they went out and did shots in the past. But anyway, let's head over to Josie's Bar for our Josie's Bar quiz. Welcome back, fellow quizzers and fellow defenders. Question eight of nine for this week is,

[01:10:24] what perfume does Heather and a lot of the other guests of the Black and White Bowl wear? Ooh, it's one more time for those in the back who didn't hear. Of course, what perfume does Heather and a lot of the other guests of the Black and White Bowl wear? That's it. That's the eighth question of nine. I hope you've been gathering together all the correct answers. At the end of next week's episode, you'll have the ninth question. Send in all your correct answers to us at feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. And you can be in with a chance of getting your hands on some Daredevil born again goodies.

[01:10:54] Yes. So answers on the back of the postcard as you get it. But no, answers on the back of an email. Or the front of an email would be really better because I could read it then. Yes. But if you also want to give us some feedback, you can send it to the same place at feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. Much like our good friend Coffee and Vodka did when he sent us this feedback. Greetings, fellow dentally damaged offenders.

[01:11:19] First, so nice they went back to the series defining note of the mystery around Vodka's death. Second, I knew it. It was Vanessa all along. So nice to see that nod to Vodka's run, in many ways the best since Miller's. By tying episode one so tightly to the eighth with the return of Bullseye, the continuing erasure of Heather and Kristen, the death of Adam, and the potential vengeance of Ben Ulrich via BB,

[01:11:48] we've officially got a three episode season. The only downside was finding out that the nature of Luca's death. Still, Vanessa seems to hold a carefully concealed grudge. Can't wait to see where it and the rest of the show goes. Next episode, five dancing devils, perforated Picassos, and murders on the dance floor out of five. Peace and take care, Coffee and Vodka. P.S.

[01:12:14] I did squeed loudly enough to wake my wife when seeing Matt in front of Josie's. As for no tights this episode, they weren't required. This was pure Dee Dee wearing his Matt mask. I do have to wonder at his freeing a Bullseye. The whole thing felt a little set up, which will likewise be addressed next week. Thanks, Coffee and Vodka. I don't think it was a setup. I think happy coincidence, and if anything, Matt will punish himself

[01:12:44] for that happy coincidence in the future. I understand what you're saying, that this three episode season, for me, it's more, it's still, I know you weren't the fan of too much of it, but for me, I think it's very much the setup. It's the redefining of the characters for this new MCU take. And again, we have been with these characters as fans of this since Netflix for multiple years.

[01:13:13] So I think this was also, again, trying to just reintroduce or introduce this character, their motivations, what drives them. So yeah, glad we got there as well. I think, I do think, and we've said it before, we tend to be a lot more positive on the shows that we're covering that we really like. And part of that's because one of the fundamental things about the shows that we cover is we like spending time with these characters.

[01:13:43] We like spending time with these actors and watching what they do. And when you have Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio on screen as Fisk and as Matt Murdock, it doesn't really bother me if every episode isn't completely part of the narrative. You know, if it's Matt Murdock in a bank fighting bank robbers, hey, it's Matt Murdock. It's more Matt Murdock. That's an issue of a comic book, right? Not every single issue adds to the overall whole. So while you're absolutely right, Coffee and Vodka,

[01:14:12] those three episodes could have been the first, the only three episodes shown so far, we've gotten eight. That gave us five more episodes of time spent with these characters that we really like. So hopefully next episode is even more of the stuff we like and next season is even more of the stuff we like. That's great. But I have enjoyed the season so far as well. It's just great to be around Vincent D'Onofrio and Charlie Cox as well. Agreed. Great stuff. Thanks, Coffee and Vodka. Next up, Victor Von Doom says,

[01:14:42] greetings, defenders. So it was Vanus all along. I took a while to get the tempo of that. Thanks. Thanks, Victor. He says, Nice to see fear cross the kingpin's face upon hearing of Bullseye's escape. RIP, Adam. I thought it a gritty way to confirm Vanessa's depravity. Happy trails, Kristen M. The fur may not last into the next season. The BB Gallo connection spells trouble for Daniel. He may indeed burn for kingpin.

[01:15:11] I suspect he is a dead patsy walking. Sheila should join forces with BB and Gallo or leave town right now. The dichotomy between the Matt Heather and Vanessa Wilson relationships is notable as one is on the rocks while the other is strengthened. Very good, Victor. Regarding Matt's injury, can that happen without a fast forward time shift? I just gotta see Powell get destroyed. Quote from Kingpin here, Secrets make us sick. Like that.

[01:15:41] Excelsior, Victor Cherry Von Doom. P.S. Regarding Heather, did she not really believe she saved herself from Muse? She's gone. So Victor's question there, I guess, is Heather signing her own death warrant by believing she's the one that saved herself from a vigilante like Muse? Is she gonna die when she thinks she could take on Bullseye or Poindexter in the future? No, I could see it becoming this really interesting... I'd love to see, like, if she does hang around

[01:16:11] for the next season and she understands who Matt becomes or is. Right. I can see that being a really cool piece of, like, what does a real psychiatrist think? Can Matt bring her around to his way of thinking? Or does she become an anti-vigilante vigilante? Yeah. Maybe that's the way it is. She is the new version of Typhoid Mary, but for the brain. Could be it. That could be it. Great stuff. Thanks very much for that, Victor. Thanks, Victor. And that's two mentions

[01:16:40] of the fact that the firm isn't gonna survive until next season because of Christian's challenge to Matt in this episode. So, impossible. I'd love to have seen more of Christian McDuffie, you know, considering in the Netflix shows, obviously Foggy and Karen Page were a significant part of that show and they were the other two members of their law firm. It just seems like Christian kind of pops in occasionally and has some moments with Matt mostly berating him for not being in the office

[01:17:09] and that's kind of all she's had. I wish she'd had a lot more. She seems like a really good actress, so I wish we'd had a bit more of her in this season. I'd say we'll get there. I hope so, but again, that's two pieces of feedback if you're saying that that's the end of the law firm because it's gonna break apart. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. Time will tell. Yeah. Thanks very much for that, Victor. We do have a quick bit of feedback over from Instagram. Zora Allens said, more great coverage, lads. Totally agree with the pacing

[01:17:38] for that episode. Last week's episode being a bit rushed. I wish they had more episodes to really let the story breathe. I also wish Muse stuck around longer, but it is what it is. Still a phenomenal episode all in all, and I'm both eager and unprepared for the season to end. Cheers. Thanks so much, Zora, for your thoughts on last week's episode and on our coverage. It's really good to be back talking about Daredevil, to be honest. Really lots of fun. But yeah, there's things that we'd love to have seen happen even if we'd had the Muse story

[01:18:07] just handled differently under these directors, but it feels like they didn't want to do that. They wanted to tell a different story, a bigger story, and they have gotten their way with these last two episodes, hopefully. Yeah. No, I think so. And look, Muse is a great character, but I think the better, more interesting foil right now for Matt Murdock as the story of Matt Murdock and Daredevil is Kingpin. Mm-hmm.

[01:18:36] Whereas Muse, as a just position of Matt and Tom thing, that's almost a season three if you were to use him later when you've done Kingpin, when you've done Bullseye. So I think they did best with what they could with it. It did feel slightly rushed, but I think for what they had and how they used him, it was good. I wish you'd have kept more of the comic book story, but at least the comic books are there. Definitely go out and read them. If you haven't read the storyline when Muse, it's a really,

[01:19:07] really interesting storyline, quite different from what we ended off with in the show, unfortunately, but well worth reading. Exactly. Over on the Book of Faces Facebook, we got some feedback from Mindy Megan, who had this to say. Greetings, lads. I'm glad to be back watching along with you. I started Born Again a few weeks late, but I'm excited I caught up on all the podcast episodes before the finale. Side note, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was bothered by the CGI in the fight scenes from episodes one and six,

[01:19:36] although it's worth mentioning there were some really amazing camera work in the first fights between Daredevil and Muse. After enjoying Jessica Jones, I tried Daredevil on Netflix, but it didn't grab me. I've since gone back and watched up to season two, episode two, and so I regret sleeping on Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock because he is absolutely my favourite moody baby girl hottie. The parallels between Daredevil and Fisk this season have been excellent, though I do agree the last episode felt rushed

[01:20:06] and there was a missed opportunity to develop the Bastion character to make a second guess if he was actually Muse or not. I haven't read the comics, but I've been told and seen some panels that Muse gets really brutal, almost in an NBC Hannibal way it looked like. I would have loved to have seen more of him past the murals, especially since both the original series and Born Again are considerably gory violent compared to other Marvel series.

[01:20:36] I think Vanessa as the boss is super badass and loves seeing her debut at the ball in all red, coupled with the just position of her dancing with Matt with his red glasses while Heather and Fisk are all in white together dancing. I was not expecting this ending and can't wait to see what happens next week and in season two. Thanks Mindy. I'm glad you caught up. Great to have you with us. Absolutely. It's always happy as people kind of

[01:21:06] follow along with us. It's fun, isn't it? Because we've mentioned the Daredevil show and Netflix quite a lot, but in the past, because the entire season was dropped in a day and we were doing it weekly, everybody had caught up way beyond us when we were podcasting about it. So it's fun that people are catching up to us now and people are going back and listening to the Netflix coverage as well. That's great. So great to have you back, Mindy. Yes, 100%. And in terms of kind of, you know, kind of going back

[01:21:35] onto season two of Daredevil and him being your favourite moody baby girl hottie, I can see it. I've never said it out loud, but that's exactly what I think of Mindy. I'm just glad that you also came over from Jessica Jones because my namesake, she's a special person. I'm hoping we see more of her next season two. Let's hope so. Let's hope so. Let's hope we get to see her. Yeah, but she's going to be working on the new Dexter season, so she has other filming commitments,

[01:22:05] but maybe we'll see her sometime again in the future. It'd be great to see her back in the leather jacket at some point in the future. On Musing Comics, I can kind of say it now a little bit more than we've been saying in the past, but yes, he does move on from murals into using body parts as another expression of his art. It's not just murals he paints, so yeah, a little bit more like Hannibal or some of the characters from Hannibal or some of the killers from Hannibal. Hannibal himself is a cannibal, so he doesn't really have that many

[01:22:34] body parts left. Thanks so much, Vinny, for your feedback. Dr. Bob Phillips had some thoughts on this episode as well. He said, I didn't have Daredevil catching a bullet for Fisk on my list of plot points, nor did I think that murdering one's ex-lover was a way to rekindle romance, or that I'd ever watch a deep fat fryer being misused so atrociously. Did the mayor get rid of food hygiene rules while he was ripping and stripping red tape? Can't quite see how this can wrap up in one more episode, but looking forward to seeing them try.

[01:23:05] Excellent, Dr. Bob. Great news, of course, is that they don't have to wrap it all up in one episode. They've got a second season to come, which is filming right now in New York as well, so it'll be interesting to see how they close out the season next week because there's definitely going to be lots of strands left to lead into next season. Yes, very much so. I can't imagine them even getting rid of Mayor Fisk next week. You know, I presume he's going to still be mayor at the end of the episode unless they do a time jump of, what's it, four and a half years of a sitting mayor and it just goes to his final week in office and he gets voted out.

[01:23:35] That's how the episode ends. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. It will be, and I'm saying this controversially, no, no, no, it will be he suddenly gets renewed for a second term. For a second term. Even though it's constitutionally against, you know, they run two terms back to back. He suddenly manages it. But anyway. That's a big pin thing to do, doesn't it? It does. It really does. Thanks so much, Dr. Bob. And the final piece of feedback comes in from Mathematician who had this to say, what a twist.

[01:24:04] Vanessa behind it all and Fisk knew nothing about who was behind Foggy's death. I thought I knew what was happening. As usually happens with me, I was way off. Fabulous twist with the cherry on the cake being that there was a good reason for Point Dexter to shoot any of the four in the crosshairs. So you were frantically trying to figure out who he was aiming for. Fantastic. Yep. That's it. We just, there was even a point where I was like,

[01:24:34] oh, he's going to kill Vanessa, but Vanessa's in Matt's arms and Heather's in white in Fisk's arms and they were both facing away from Point Dexter. So he may have, I was like, oh, he's going to shoot Heather thinking it's Vanessa in Fisk's arms and at a rate, I was like, that's 100% what's going to happen. And nope. I thought the music was going to change and it would be a tango

[01:25:03] and they'd all be spinning around on the floor and Dex couldn't get a bead on the right target and accidentally shoot somebody else like BB in the background or something or Daniel in the background. I didn't really. I thought exactly the same as you two, Matthew. I didn't know who his target was going to be of the four that were right in the centre of the floor. Really cool though. What a great way to close out the episode and looking forward to what happens from next week. Thanks so much to everybody for your feedback for this episode. Once again, keep sending it in to us at feedback

[01:25:32] at tvpodcastindustries.com. Just one episode left to go. The finale of Daredevil Born Again is out next Wednesday on Disney Plus around the world. So we'll cover that and then of course we will do a wrap-up episode because we've been doing our pub quiz. We will do a wrap-up episode. So if you want to get if you back in for the entire season, you'll have about a week after that final episode comes out to tell us what you thought about the whole season before we discuss it on our finale. Yes. So make sure you get in that feedback and put in all your

[01:26:02] questions from Josie's. And while you're at it, do us a favour, head on over to Spotify or any Fisk or Murdoch associated podcast catchers and subscribe to the feed to make sure you never miss anything we put out Daredevil related, Defenders related or just TV podcast related because you know we cover some good stuff and there's some good stuff coming down the line. You have none other than season two of The Last of Us.

[01:26:31] You have none other than The Thunderbolts. Fantastic Four first steps. You have so much goodness coming. Just make sure you are subscribed so you don't miss a thing. Absolutely. Yeah. Big one coming next week. Last of Us season two kicks off on Sunday. This is the biggest show that HBO put out. The second season confirmed we're going to have a third season so we're going to be in quite a similar position with The Last of Us. It's not going to tell the entire story of The Last of Us the second game.

[01:27:01] It's going to tell about half the story and then the third season will close that story out which will be very interesting. I'm really intrigued to see how they tell that story especially after such a successful first season of that show. One of the best shows that we've covered on the podcast here so very excited to return to the infested filled world of Joel and Ellie. Yes. It is going to be good and if you liked the previous season and our coverage of it well not head on over to patreon.com

[01:27:30] slash tvpodcastindustries where you can support us for any ongoing monthly amount and it helps keep the likes and mics a-going but you can also just support us with a bit of caffeine by going to buymeacoffee.com slash tvpi and keep our editor-in-chief our producer extraordinaire in caffeine and the odd bit of whiskey as it is whiskey watch just keeping it the Irish coffee style into the wee airs as he edits our dulcet tones

[01:27:59] and your fantastic feedback into a concise podcast that you get in your ear holes right now so just make sure you do that so head on over to patreon.com until then fellow defenders we will see you for the finale of daredevil born again season 1 I can't believe it's coming to an end Chris it feels like it only just started it did but anyway it literally did compared to the old seasons

[01:28:28] where they were like 13 episodes this did we are very much looking forward to the finale of daredevil next week cannot wait thanks so much for joining us we'll speak to you again next time yes thank you so much and in the immortal words of Dr. Harrison keep watching keep listening and keep defending bye bye