Daredevil Born Again 208 Review

[00:00:00] This is Defenders on TV Podcast Industries. We're back for the finale of Daredevil Born Again, Season 2, Episode 8, The Southern Cross. You know, when I was a boy, I was taught to find the biggest man and bring him down.

[00:00:21] But as I grew, I realized that no man stands as tall as this courthouse, these institutions. That was lovely, Mr. Mayor. Thank you for joining us today. Not at all. I consider it my civic duty. And I welcome the opportunity to see my Safer Streets Initiative in action. See justice prevail.

[00:00:50] I was a little surprised that you showed up. I could say the same for you. Thank you. I'll live. Welcome back, fellow Defenders, to TV Podcast Industries.

[00:01:17] We are on to the finale of Daredevil Born Again, Season 2, Episode 8, The Southern Cross. I am one of your hosts, Derek. I went and found the biggest man in this podcast duo and took him down. And that's why I am Chris, taking down the John. Yes, we are joined by Chris, finally. And we're kind of joined by John.

[00:01:43] When I was a boy, I was taught to never podcast when I have a sore throat. And so I will be leaving now. Yes. I'm surprised they're here, too. Yes. Wilson Fisk. I believe it's my civic duty. It's a great sound. It would work really well for the podcast. But there's no way I can ask John to join us for the finale of the podcast. But the good news is we do have the pub quiz.

[00:02:12] We have the final question of the pub quiz coming up later on today. And when we do our wrap up with the pub quiz, John will be back for that and hopefully feeling much, much better. And tell us all his thoughts about this season of Daredevil Born Again. But John, if you were to give it a rating, because we can't get all of your details. If you were to give it a rating, what would you rate this episode? I would give this five Indian takeouts. Five. Fantastic. Yes. A good Indian takeout. Yes. Yeah. That's something you love. Five Indian takeouts out of five would be the worst thing for me.

[00:02:41] So, fellow defenders, I'm very sorry I can't be on the podcast because of my throat. But remember, keep watching, keep listening, and keep hacking up lots of guitar. Fantastic. Thanks, John. Bye. Talk to you on the boys. And off he toddles on his way to take care of himself. Cell Block H. To Cell Block D or Cell Block H, maybe yes. But thanks so much to John, of course, for joining us for that quick second.

[00:03:10] And you can understand, fellow defenders, why he isn't joining us for the rest of the episode. I've just got my normal gravelly voice. That's not a sore throat for me. So, I'm going to stay. Chris, how's your voice doing? My voice is actually fine. So, yeah, I'm going to stay at least until you'll have me and throw me off for the next episode. I am so excited that you're back for this one. It's kind of like, spoilers from here on out, obviously, it's kind of like Luke Cage has joined us.

[00:03:36] Or Jessica Jones, Christopher Jones, has joined us for the final episode of Daredevil Born Again. You've been watching along, of course. Of course. For the season. But we would have liked to use you more than we could have. But scheduling conflicts, just like Kristen Ritter had in New York for Daredevil Born Again Season 2, meant that you couldn't appear as often as we would have liked you to on this podcast. No, unfortunately not.

[00:04:02] But we also recorded a stonking season of episodes of the one and only Invincible. That was pretty stunning, wasn't it? It was. And again, so without giving away too much away, if you've watched Invincible, you'll know, and you listen to our coverage, you'll understand when I say, I liked this season of Daredevil as much as I liked Invincible. Ooh, fantastic. So. Yeah, it's been a good year for TV so far. Yes, yes.

[00:04:31] Especially for shows that we're covering on TV Podcast Industries. And if you want to get access to all of the shows that we're covering, pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com. The main feed on there has access to everything that we cover, from The Boys to Invincible to Daredevil to the Punisher show, which we'll be covering in the next couple of weeks. And, well, the Punisher episode, which we'll be covering in the next couple of weeks. And all of our episodes on Good Omens, the finale of which is out next week as well. So lots and lots of stuff to listen to over in TV Podcast Industries.

[00:04:58] We are obviously getting to the finale of Daredevil Born Again, but we do want to hear any feedback that you have on the entire series. You can email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or join us over on Facebook at facebook.com slash group slash tvpodcastindustries. You can leave your thoughts on any of the spoiler posts in there, or you can join us on our Discord, the details of which are in the show notes for this episode as well. I'd love to hear your thoughts. And just a reminder, the last question in our pub quiz will be available later on in this episode.

[00:05:25] If you've missed any of the questions, you can pop on over to that website there that I gave you, tvpodcastindustries.com, and all of the questions are available there in pub quizzes, all eight questions there. And you can then send in your correct answers and be in with a chance of getting your hands on some Daredevil Born Again goodies. Ooh. But before we get into all of our discussions, Derek, do you want to tell us who gave us what, where, when, and how in this very special finale episode? Absolutely. Yeah, the episode was directed by Ian B. MacDonald,

[00:05:55] who was the director of episode seven, and the episode was written by the showrunner Dario Scarlapain and Jesse Wiggetu, who wrote episode seven. So yeah, the team's all back on board for this big finale. And once again, they've been pairing the directors for two episodes at a time. So having Ian B. MacDonald, who's been with the MCU right back to the Punisher on Netflix, kind of cool to have him here closing out the series as well. Excellent stuff. Chris, with that, would you like to give us the synopsis

[00:06:24] for Daredevil Born Again, season two, episode eight, The Southern Cross? Sure. As Karen Page's trial continues, Matt Murdock calls his first witness, Mayor Wilson Fisk. Matt presents the video testimony of the late Christofi Sava, who confirms that the captain scuttled the ship on the orders of the mayor because Daredevil was aboard and found the illegal weapon shipment. District Attorney Hochberg pushes to disregard the testimony of Christofi because he isn't in the courtroom.

[00:06:53] So Matt reveals that he is Daredevil. He corroborates the testimony and gets the case dismissed, since the entire program from the Anti-Vigilante Task Force to the Safer Streets Act to the court itself was set up to divert attention away from the criminal Wilson Fisk. Outside the courtroom, Bullseye foils Mayor Fisk's backup plan by stopping the AVTF, officers from assassinating Murdock.

[00:07:22] Instead, Bullseye takes a shot at Fisk, but it hits Buck Cashman. The attack prompts Fisk to lock down the courthouse with his AVTF standing guard. Daredevil supporters surround the building, encouraged by Bibiurk to rise up in memory of all their friends and neighbours lost to the AVTF and Fisk's laws so far. As the threats from Officer Powell escalate, Cole North finally turns on him

[00:07:51] as he becomes disillusioned with his orders to kill retired Detective Cherry. He lets the resistance into the courthouse as the Attorney General of New York State offers Fisk a deal to avoid charges. But, unwilling to step down, Wilson Fisk attacks and kills numerous protesters. Eventually, Daredevil Jessica Jones and Angela Del Toro fight their way through the AVTF officers until they reach Fisk. Matt eventually convinces Fisk to take the deal.

[00:08:21] In the aftermath, Fisk leaves New York. The AVTF officers are arrested. Heather Glenn continues to spiral as she puts on Muse's mask and Jessica Jones reunites with Luke Cage as Bullseye has replaced him in the service of Mr. Charles. At the New York Bulletin, B.B. Ulrich is hired by Mitchell Ellison and given a box of her Uncle Ben's reports to welcome her to the team. As Matt Murdock and Karen Page

[00:08:50] fantasize about living a normal life together, Matt is arrested and imprisoned for his actions as Daredevil. As Daredevil sleeps his first night in prison. With a wry smile on his face. Yes. Yes. Yes. But we have lots... Yes. Lots to go through. Lots to discuss. So, should we get into our top five case notes? Order. Order. Time for the defence to present their evidence. I should have just re-recorded that

[00:09:19] as cases dismissed. Our case notion number one because the trial takes centre stage right from the beginning of this episode exactly where it should be in a Daredevil show. At Daredevil show, you've always got the action and you've always got the court case and this time the court case really takes it over from the beginning, doesn't it? I really love this. The start of the episode where we have everybody in the courtroom waiting for Matt to arrive. We know he got shot at the end of the last episode in the leg but they're wondering whether he died. They're hearing nothing from him.

[00:09:49] He's giving no response. And for some reason, Jessica Jones is tending to his wounds very brutally. Kind of like, Matt, if you're just like me, you've already healed and you'll be already on with your day. Stop moaning so much about this. You know, try childbirth. Yeah. Which was the best line of that whole engagement. This was fun. We were left at the end of episode seven of kind of going, oh, how is Matt going to sort this? Like, he has been shot. He is bleeding. Or I should say, Daredevil is shot and bleeding.

[00:10:20] So seeing Matt kind of make his way into the courtroom and kind of give that sarcastic sly is kind of that continued very Matt Murdock, Charlie Cox kind of line delivery of like, I'm here and barely I nearly didn't make it but I'm here. Yeah. And just so well delivered

[00:10:49] and it just kind of feeds from there. And I think you said it right which is Daredevil as a character in the comic books very much so and is nothing without the courtroom kind of lawyer side of things and we felt that in kind of season one, two and three of Daredevil back on Netflix days you could see the lawyer side as much as the man in black and the later Daredevil pieces. Yes. Even throughout this season he has very much

[00:11:18] battled with the battled Karen with what is the law how can he use the law to ensure not just vengeance but justice. Exactly. We see him use it in a way that we probably most people maybe thought didn't think that he did. He calls Wilson Fisk which is a gamble which everyone says is a gamble because it is Fisk

[00:11:47] and even Fisk goes I don't know if I'll do this. So seeing Matt kind of hobble in call Fisk and then seeing the goading between the two of them very much I'm going to do this are you going to do this? Are we really doing this? Are we really doing this? We as an audience know what they are doing we can tell what they're talking about and then seeing them decide to move forward and kind of yeah this is it. But I love the way

[00:12:17] it played out I love that it's Matt's choice Fisk is using it as a threat Fisk is effectively saying to him if you don't let this go through you will be imprisoned at my hand I will reveal what I know about you to everybody and Matt's kind of going well you can't reveal it if I do it myself and I'm going to use it to my advantage not just that I'm Daredevil I'm going to use the knowledge that I have as Daredevil to take you down effectively which is really cool one thing I just want to mention to begin with is Heather Glenn is on the stand

[00:12:46] and D.A. Hochberg is just using this opportunity once again exactly the same way he did back in the trial of the swordsman at the start of the season where he's trying to do it as this big opportunity for himself to just grandstand he believes that because he's on the side of the mayor he just can do anything he wants to in this circumstance he's trying to get Heather Glenn to throw Karen under the bus by revealing what she got out of her interview with Karen we know because we watched the episode that she only spent about three minutes with Karen

[00:13:16] took absolutely no information from her and then started slapping her across the face so all of this stuff was completely useless and then he gets her to read a passage from her book which just the way it was done it really did sound like Heather Glenn was going to stand up and say unavailable from all good book stories yeah it really sounds like welcome to Barnes & Noble but I love that that's the first thing that Matt does when he walks into the room it just goes this is all conjecture this is absolutely useless

[00:13:44] you can't accept her opinions and did you slap Karen across the face when you're in the room with her you know so instantly her testimony is thrown out and Matt just steps up and does the greatest Matt Murdock defense that we've seen since probably season 3 of the Netflix shows when he was up against Kingpin before really love this when they get the opportunity to play with Matt as a lawyer and the idea that he sets the whole thing up from bringing in the video testimony that was that was taken

[00:14:13] and deposed by Kristen McDuffie so he was able to use that to set everything up we know he didn't sink the ship we know they sank the ship because of instructions from someone they suspect to be the Kingpin or Mayor Fisk and then if we can place Daredevil in that location if we have Daredevil to give testimony then everything lines up and we know we know that it's all the truth we know that this can all be pulled apart which is just how cool is that to be able to have that big gotcha moment

[00:14:43] really cool yeah no and again that gotcha moment really does kind of carry through Fisk believes he is on he's going to get past this again he has bribed or threatened the three judges as part of the court and so he's just kind of grandstanding on the stand so we do as you heard at the beginning he talks about his job was to come in

[00:15:12] and take when he was a kid he would come in and take on the biggest when he was a boy Chris when he was a boy we got the callback it was so funny I know everybody associates that with with Wilson Fisk and the Netflix series if you've watched the original Netflix series I think we have a special connection to that because that was our opening our opening words for our episodes on the podcast for so long as well so I heard it about 900 times and so many times that the second he said when I was a boy I was going

[00:15:42] oh they're actually doing a specific callback to dialogue from the original series which was quite fun and then also I love that we get a moment with Wilson Fisk losing it while he's on the stand where he says to where he says to to Daredevil I am here to protect you all I'm keeping the streets safer you don't need to know anything further than that you don't need to know what's going through my ports everything above that level is above your pay grade little man to him

[00:16:12] so Wilson Fisk is losing it in front of the cameras here people are starting to really see who he is beneath all the staged to camera pieces that he's done beneath all the massaging that people have done around his reputation people are really seeing what he's really like in these moments and that plays out as the episode goes on right yeah 100% and I think as he prods Fisk and you see as he says as he loses it

[00:16:42] at that point introducing the video testimony or getting it introduced and then you have that scene where they're with the judges and they're having a whisper conversation to each other and then the building to well hold on all of this is moot because that person's not here and but we've got you to agree that Daredevil and then he does do the I am Daredevil and I thought

[00:17:12] it initially lacked that very much Robert Downey Jr I am Iron Man kind of reveal and maybe it's a callback it's when everyone challenges very quickly and he just throws his cane and knocks and kind of bing bing bing bing and then catches it I was like oh that's what you've done perfect that's that's your I am Daredevil moment and it's great because it does yeah Charlie Cox is not

[00:17:41] Robert Downey Jr in terms of that so he doesn't need to be Matt Murdock and Tony Stark are not the same character Matt is doing this because he's proving that he is Daredevil just so he can win the case exactly not to do with anything else yeah or no but he's willing to accept the consequences for it we see that later on yes you know he's willing to do everything he can because he needs to take down Fisk he needs to believe in the law he needs to believe that if he presents the correct evidence to the court

[00:18:11] they will do what the court does that's what he's always believed in that's why he's a lawyer right he believes in justice as you say not revenge and I love the turn in it you know we have almost every single thing that DA Hochberg says the judge says sustained over and over again he's objecting to everything that's being presented by the defence she's saying sustained and finally it starts to get through to her what he's saying when he's talking about the AVTF in your employee takes orders from you the DA Hochberg in your employee

[00:18:41] takes orders from you the court itself in your employee takes orders from you and suddenly you see the twist in the judge saying overruled when Hochberg starts trying to object to it and then finally the court is on his side and they say well we can't adjudicate this and we will look for a dismissal with prejudice in other words this should never have even come in front of us as a court because of how it was set up it was just fantastic really perfect and the prejudice

[00:19:10] bit does come from I think he admits Hochberg in the chambers admits that they won't even get to appeal and he kind of by saying well look we won't even allow an appeal once it comes through and you're like oh you're saying that part out loud exactly and he's saying that with three judges in the room you're saying this will not get an appeal yeah that's not how the justice system works yeah so the prejudice bit I think also kind of locks that part down

[00:19:40] as well but it does set up just a a very happy win moment as the case is thrown out and but you do see Fisk start to kind of twitch oh yeah like angrily twitch at this point and that does lead to some of the best next steps because we do get then kind of a

[00:20:09] cold cut to the AVTF officers in a corridor and so let's do we move on to our point number two because that kind of leads towards as the the the ending of that that the case is done so case note number two is Bullseye takes out the poser which is really it's cool so we knew like in the last previous episodes like we have

[00:20:39] learned that Bullseye is trying to redeem himself in his own eyes like do something good and that back and forth led to the previous episodes led to the Matt sparing him and then Matt going to him and giving him like if you want to redeem yourself this is what

[00:21:11] a shot at him or Karen or someone based on the back of like them losing this case so he knew something would be happening because that's the only thing you can think of because we do see then as I said you kind of get this kind of cuts to the AVTF in this kind of stairwell and you just see kind of them talking and then you see an AVTF officer

[00:21:41] upstairs and then suddenly we get the corridor kind of stairwell again and then you get the bullseye as the camera's taken out and the two guards are killed then you get what we think is bullseye setting up walking to a window and then you get really weird because you do then see an AVTF officer walk by and just stand in front and almost look at him

[00:22:10] and you're like oh god like wait what's going on is bullseye back working for Fisk what's going on and then we get the real bullseye making his appearance known and that's when you get the real um classic bullseye I want to call it like the power set it was just really really good to see like and I think they've I obviously I haven't been on this season of recording

[00:22:40] like they really nailed the visual and the sound and how bullseye uses his power set in this kind of in this version I think like the scene in the in the cafe the diner and then here seeing him use his knives using his weapons using like just everything and not going straight for the kill and the one shot kill it's all very much like like he uses when the once he's killed everyone

[00:23:09] or about to kill everyone the last guy the guy drops his gun and he uses one knife to hit the gun away the guy flips over and then he uses another knife to spear him in the head and I'm like oh that's it's just very cool he is a psychopath he is going to take more love and kind of pleasure out of the the pain and suffering yes I think he's making definitive choices and we'll probably hear a little more about that if we do get to see the character again in the future

[00:23:40] so Matt let him free to save the governor and we hear the the final part of that when the governor goes to goes to fist to tell him to resign that when Bullseye went to kill to save the governor he didn't kill her assassin so the assassin is alive yes he specifically left the assassin alive so that's quite interesting I think the reason why he's actually here at the courthouse is because Wilson Fisk is trying to set up Bullseye as the killer of Matt Murdock he doesn't know

[00:24:10] how the court case is going to go when he set it all up you hear him talking to Buck earlier on saying that's what we need to do it's his backup plan that if everything goes bad when Matt leaves the courthouse you get him shot he's shot by Bullseye and then you can still enact vigilante laws that he's that he's been championing effectively another vigilante has taken out the great Matt Murdock the guy he believes is a hero right and Bullseye is like not a chance so I love that he chooses to kill the guy dressed as himself

[00:24:39] and calls him a poser just before he puts in the killing blow I'm not sure if he's killed all the other AVTF officers he may have but he specifically kills the guy that's dressed up as him and calls him a poser so that's definitely a decision that he makes and yeah he tries to kill Fisk or does he does he kill does he shoot Buck specifically because he knows Buck is the one that set this whole thing up yeah that's the other kind of question everybody looks at it and goes was he going to kill Fisk there's lots of

[00:25:08] questions over that all the way throughout the season he has wanted to go out and kill Fisk and Matt's told him no constantly but he does shoot towards him and takes out Buck would Bullseye have missed or did he miss on purpose to take out the guy that set up this person to take his place and in this setup that's just a question that I had and I don't know whether we'll hear about in the future but it was really cool that he has this moment here we weren't sure whether we were going to see him after what he did last week

[00:25:39] but yeah him coming back feels like he did it by choice not because he was told by somebody to be there he went there because somebody was trying to pin it all on him yeah and the final bit really that happens at Bullseye in the episode is that we see him at the end that he is now working for Mr. Charles or Mr. Robinson he's on the flight out of the city now on what we know Matthew Lillard's well another alternate name for Matthew Lillard's character Mr. Robinson

[00:26:08] as they fly off to the next destination and he's taken the place of Luke Cage so he is on this new team that Matthew Lillard's been setting up with superpowered beings from New York I am hoping this pays off my biggest fear is that this is just a loose end left hanging for the next five years ten years until they replay cast everyone and it's all because I would like

[00:26:38] to see what is going to be some form of like their task force X suicide squad type of thing I literally think he's adding members to the Thunderbolts new Avengers team yeah we know he's working with Val that was established in the first episode and we know Luke Cage is pretty heavily powered and we know he was abroad because that's what they said last episode he was working overseas so now he's brought back from overseas and he's being replaced by

[00:27:08] Bullseye that's what's said here so we're going to see the Thunderbolts team or some of them at least in the upcoming movies and we know we've got a third season of Daredevil Born Again and they're likely to bring back Wilson Bethel in that so let's hope that's where we're going to see it a year away let's hope we see his character and Matthew Lillard's character back at least then and maybe in the movies yeah yeah I don't know about the movies but I think at least my hope is

[00:27:38] the season three sets up deeper into what this character and his superpowered individuals are doing out of America and then season four is that which is okay we have to go stop them because it's illegal and not right and yada yada because while we still think of Luke Cage as a good guy technically he ended his seasons and his run in the Netflix

[00:28:07] as as a mobster essentially he took over and he became the evil in order to save and be better for Harlem so it is kind of like okay well so he was a bad guy so it's essentially it's an army of dark avengers that type of thing new avengers so I do want to see daredevil bullseye someone else versus luke cage someone else versus

[00:28:37] jessica jones etc etc etc a defenders series essentially as well it is the defenders versus the anti-defenders yeah it's crazy to think isn't it like we watched I was re-watching the defenders mini-series there a couple of weeks ago it's amazing to think that happened after the end of season one of each of the shows and I think season two of daredevil and then they all had seasons that went on afterwards and they never did a big reuniting episode where all of them came together again they never

[00:29:07] did it again they never did another defenders season two would have loved to have seen that hopefully we get to see that at least in daredevil next season but maybe if everything works out and people keep watching the show keep watching it I keep telling you we might get other shows spinning out from these ones and these appearances hopefully I think that's it for our bullseye point let's get on to our case note number three everybody in lockdown

[00:29:35] so with those shots ringing out from across the street taking out Buck Cashman the opportunity is taken to go into complete lockdown in the courthouse AVTF standing outside the courthouse blocking everybody from coming in Fiske inside with his team and Matt and the rest of the team plus the governor all inside I absolutely love while they're all in lockdown Jessica Jones of course reaches into a drawer in our

[00:30:05] whiskey watch to take out a bottle of whiskey and drink about three quarters of it before makes any decisions to do anything else to help it's like oh I am so happy that judges are able to keep whiskey in their bottom drawers right thank god for Jewish prudence I believe so funny very cool but yeah we have this great concept of Fiske on the inside being protected by his AVTF him choosing because he's in there he can make an address on the TV

[00:30:34] telling everybody that there's been a big miscarriage of justice and everybody who believes in him should know he will always be there for the city and we have Matt Karen Jessica all watching on to this performance that he's doing on TV and we know that people are starting to see through Fiske we've seen the attacks we've seen the escalation of violence in New York and this spreads out to the BB report we see BB Urich puts out her

[00:31:04] city without fear report this time calling for unity calling for everybody to join together it's going to be her final broadcast of the BB report she reveals it's her behind the mask to anybody probably won't know her very well although they will of course for the regular BB report they will know her face from that so she has revealed herself on the city without fear as being the person behind the mayor kingpin and she calls for everybody that's up against him to come down to

[00:31:34] the courthouse and we just see the city dressing up in their Daredevil costumes and coming down it's so cool it really reminded me of V for Vendetta which I'm sure was the big inspiration for it just everybody coming down I love that they used some of the masks that you can buy from Daredevil Born Again season 1 that you can buy in your local comic book shop loads of people running down to New York Midtown Comics to pick up their DD masks so they can join in the riots

[00:32:03] and then they all come down and converge on the courthouse thought it was cool so we have in the lead we have the three major police officers that we know Officer Kim Cherry and Mahoney all leading the way trying to get into the courthouse so I love the standoff there as well the suit up scene was great and as you hear Matt says what's happening or you hear Karen say to Matt what's happening and the city is picking sides and

[00:32:32] seeing that suit up moment not just from old DD because he gets his suit off Jessica but you see everyone else putting on their masks and stuff and it is as you said very V for Vendetta esque it is very much I am Iron Man where everyone that little kid in Iron Man 2 who everyone keeps saying is Peter Parker but sure it's not but anyway he puts on an Iron Man mask and tries to blast the

[00:33:01] big robot I'm Spartacus probably be the other big inspiration for the types of scenes and movies I am Spartacus no I am Spartacus everyone is there I I like when they get up to the courthouse there and then you really see you see the old guard versus the AVTF and we've seen them go after Jerry we've seen them nearly kill Jerry we've seen them nearly kill the people protecting Jerry

[00:33:31] so seeing them just broadly and brazenly walk up to the AVTF that is the strength in numbers moment that we kind of get and you get the ever delightful Powell just escalating things just pushing it and pushing it and like oh yeah he's the one and he lets it slip that he killed White Tiger that it wasn't Muse it was them and it was a way to frame and then he also killed the officers

[00:34:01] so then you see Cole go whoa hold on I got burned up for nothing and I thought I was like on the side of I thought I was doing the good that's where you see Cole wrestle with and then go no no no no no no and then we get the let them through yeah and like you know it's been really clear that Cole was going to finally was going to eventually turn on Powell there

[00:34:43] it was to happen but I do love the moment when he's effectively asking Powell hang on a second what did you tell me in the past and he goes I don't care I told you to shoot this guy in the face and Powell's going no no he's an NYPD officer like we are it's like no no not like us we're different from them shoot him in the face and it just gets escalated until Powell cracks him

[00:35:13] the course of the last eight episodes Powell is the one character we do want to see gone we want to see him taken out by a major character hopefully Punisher we were hoping Frank would come back and kill him

[00:35:43] that whole thing about him trying to spring Matt and then Matt going no I don't want to be sunk but a part of that or he gets caught and then going on his kill spree in there because I was like you're right at the end they all all the baddies end up in jail and I'm like Frank's not gonna like that so I do I as well hope but

[00:36:13] Powell and everyone versus Matt in prison so I was like oh okay maybe maybe that's a better story I think the other thing the other way to twist it is what's happened here with Powell is he's been put in prison to take him off the board for the Punisher one last kill coming out next week so so he's not on the streets he's not

[00:36:43] where he'll be brought back to have a battle with Matt in the prison that's what it feels like so unfortunately I

[00:37:13] maybe that's it one other thing I want to mention about the lockdown is that there is an offer on the table for Fisk so we saw the governor confront Fisk and say she wants him to stand down give up the job he says no and then there's another offer that comes in from the attorney general who the offer to Fisk is that he gives up his residency in New York leaves and he will not be prosecuted he is

[00:37:43] allowed to leave the city Sheila is the one that proposes it to so I love that she finally had a moment to stand up against

[00:38:13] yeah I didn't like this offer being very personally I'm like it feels I think it's supposed to feel that way which is that you're kind of going well hold on a guy who's done all this way yeah I think it's supposed to feel like that in the world today

[00:38:43] that someone in a position of power would be released from that and the only thing would be that they're no longer in power but they're able to live on their island in the world you know like punishment huh you live on the island that you built for yourself but we know he doesn't like Sam between his toes it's the ultimate one person who does get their comeuppance at the hands of somebody else which just want to mention because we mentioned obviously Powell goes to prison not really getting his comeuppance but

[00:39:15] we do have a moment between Heather Glenn and D.A. Hochberg the touch her on the shoulder bad move mate I love that he gets the throat punch from Heather Glenn saying do not ever touch me this is a woman who was allowed to strangle Buck a couple of weeks ago you know that's the kind

[00:39:44] of person that she wants to be around somebody will always ask her whether she wants to you see Buck smile very wide at her absolutely so Buck's still alive at least will we move on to our next case now Chris let's do it order in the court I'm loving

[00:40:14] that these are all working really well for our final episode they haven't worked very well for all season Chris so I like that we have our courtroom moments here so our fourth point really is the duel battle throughout the courthouse because it starts with the anger of Fisk at this offer to step down and step away from the office of the mayor through Sheila he's so angry at that it just incenses him and you see him running towards the door going open the door open the door now and then

[00:40:44] he pulls it open himself saying boo to the first protester outside and cracking his this is the Wilson Fisk of old yeah you know I think you're a comic book fan as well Chris you know this story has been in the comics this mayor Fisk idea and it's always like hang on a second how can a person like Wilson Fisk who has been in serious actual brawls and fighting and killed lots of people himself in the

[00:41:14] comic books how can he get into a position like the mayor when is the point where he is going to break out and start punching people in the face so I'm so glad we got to see a moment of this in the TV show where we actually see the brutal Wilson Fisk just go all out punching people left and right yeah and it's been coming and kind of telegraphed since the moment Vanessa initially got glass in the temple from that point onwards he become quite

[00:41:44] enranged and sensed and it starts you could see it building and building and building I think my hesitancy on seeing Wilson end up in Tahiti on an island that's a one for all of our agents Agents of Shields fans absolutely I think he might be the new occupant of Epstein Island but seeing how many people

[00:42:14] he kills as he brutally brutally makes his way through the corridor towards the front entrance so and then getting to see the parallels which is the pure violence of Wilson Fisk as we have Jessica Jones Matt as Daredevil and then the White Tiger joining them yes we do yes kind of cool to see Angela take up the mask and join them in the fight and powered up like really using her powers in that

[00:42:44] way because we see her flipping and jumping as much as Matt would for example off the walls interestingly as I said I was watching the Defenders miniseries in the first episode where the four defenders come together and have their own hallway fight this is exactly what it reminded me of where we have Jessica Matt and Angela fighting down the corridor with the AVTF in front of them it looked very like the Defenders scene as well so I thought that was quite a nice little callback for me for me I think the missed

[00:43:14] opportunity in this episode is that this should have been a single take can you it is the epitome as you said of the hallway scene and most Daredevil seasons have a hallway scene have a scene a one take so we got it earlier we got it earlier this season in the warehouse this for me would have been the now I don't know how you would do it because you have to do Fisk they were cutting to Fisk and cutting

[00:43:43] to Peace back to the other team but it's just I think personally I will very hand on heart say it's a beautiful scene it is so well choreographed it is fantastic to see how each of them use their powers but personally I would have loved to see that as a one taker I know there's just so much complexity so much choreography that has to take place

[00:44:13] you do have to use the actors to hand it off which is what they've always done with Charlie Cox and his stunt person they've always had him handing off the scene so that it looks like it's all done in one take I know and this actually has come out this week she was in New York to work on another project she was there to work on

[00:44:43] the last season of Dexter when it comes to season three she signed up fully that is her role that she'll be working on see some of that next season but I think they

[00:45:12] probably went right we'll do something with Charlie Cox as a nod back to the one take scene they did it about the courtroom scenes and if you just

[00:45:42] have people being punched in the face all the time well then you're doing just a standard action show like the arrow or flash those kind of TV shows that always had to have hero punches villain in the face and that's the end of your episode so what an interesting way to close out this season of Daredevil having Fisk cracking skulls all the way through the courthouse having Daredevil Jessica and Angela fighting their way through his own personal army and then when they meet up

[00:46:12] Daredevil's personal army or the people that think they represent Daredevil start to attack Fisk and Daredevil has to stop them Daredevil and Jessica Jones have to stop the resistance fighters from ripping Fisk apart they have to calm them down with words and tell them they're better than this they aren't there to kill Fisk they're there to take him out remove him from the situation and yeah it's dealt with Matt giving the offer one last time

[00:46:42] to Fisk for him to leave the city yeah and it's given in a way that it is very poignant I suppose no heartfelt like it harkens back to their fight under in Fisk's personal chambers where he had the rabbit in a snow storm the painting it harkens back to their conversation they harkens back to their conversations throughout many

[00:47:11] of the seasons where it is like this will continue when does this end well it ends with justice it ends with neither of us are willing to give up the city we live and breathe the city as much as the city lives and breathes with us but it can only end when one of us leaves so you get all that and the ending is the acceptance by Fisk yes it's the offer that Matt

[00:47:41] gives him is to give the city peace even if we do not have peace maybe we can solve this with grace love it absolutely I'm calling back to the Christian moments the Christian grace over acceptance and all that Chas and the

[00:48:34] I fisk apart um to talk him talk everybody down and give him one final offer that allows the city that both of them love to go on by both of them deciding we can't be in this city anymore one going off to his private island and to uh stretch out on the on the sand and the other being taken off to prison um because by this point matt knows he's going to jail i think yeah i think they made that call

[00:49:00] once he decided to essentially just go i i i am daredevil yeah yeah because it's interesting there's a line on it which i noticed the second time i was watching it um after they dismiss the case the judge that dismisses it says and mr murdoch stay in the court so she's saying to him you've revealed yourself as the vigilante you will be facing prosecution effectively everything goes and changes after that of course but um but yeah she's effectively saying to him um since you've

[00:49:29] said you're a vigilante you can't like walk out of walk out the front doors right now you know but he does but that's a different story yeah yeah well eventually he does um speaking of which we move on to our final case note let's do it because there's a big wrap-up from this point onwards everything else is in the is in the montage basically um yeah all to the uh wonderful tunes of radiohead's pyramid song one of my favorite uh radiohead songs absolutely love it um i love the

[00:49:57] reason why they've chosen this song i think is for a specific line in there there's uh one of the lines is um there's nothing to fear nothing in doubt um the man without fear the city without fear is such a central theme to the series choosing that as the radiohead lyric to play over this montage of everything that's happening happening to everybody uh fisk on his island um mass going to prison um then the reveal of lady muse uh i guess um heather glenn sticking on the stinky mask uh from her

[00:50:26] uh would be murderer or the person she murdered uh last season um what do you think of that one chris uh i liked it just the only reason i liked it is because they stuck in her looking in the mirror with the mask on seeing herself hearkening back to without the mask sorry so her masked self

[00:50:50] is when she takes off this muse mask so when she is maskless she is being her that is so basically hearkening to her courtroom where matt had asked well are you like what is a mask what is the vigilante what is that that part and so essentially she has become muse she that is who she is and who or

[00:51:15] and partly in thanks to buck um so buck has kind of trained her on that which i did have a question on yes buck alive we don't know i was interested we were watching we watched it together myself and john watched it together um first time neither of us seen the episode and even by the time the uh they're in the courthouse and the news report is outside it's gone from daylight to dark yep and

[00:51:43] buck is sitting on the floor and heather glenn's going he's pretty cold gonna get a jacket and john's like he'd be dead by now he absolutely would be dead now the only thing that i have to go on because i'm not in any way medically trained the only thing i have to go on is a monologue in reservoir dogs if you remember the quentin tarantino movie um one of the guys takes a gut shot and the other criminal with him harvey keitel says if you take a gut shot you will eventually die but it's the longest

[00:52:13] way to die it takes way longer than being hit in any other part of your body because that's the whole premise of the movie that you don't know when the character's going to die and everybody loads of stuff is being revealed because he's dying over hours and hours and hours so so buck did take a gut shot he got shot in the stomach so that's my feeling that he was able to live long enough for somebody to come in and take him off to hospital and we'll see him next season yeah i i do think

[00:52:39] because we didn't see him die i think he is alive i think if anything he will train lady muse he yes that's where she will learn her additional um skills she definitely has throat punching down yes he does down choking but the rest she will need to learn and you can see a he will be the man in the chair to lady muse if you will he will be that oracle uh to batman etc etc um he does he does have some

[00:53:10] interesting ways of killing people right just on skills uh this season right um i'm okay with it but seeing her don the mask and then seeing that scene in the mirror really just solidifies that kind of oh i'm very interested to see where that goes throughout the next season yeah um i must say i absolutely love the the back and forth in that piece in the courtroom with matt and heather where uh matt's asking you know do you think karen has to wear a mask if she's a vigilante she goes no

[00:53:37] she's using daredevil a mask as a mask and he goes oh like you're using the uh the fisk organization as your mask and then the defense rests basically so you got a really good dig in there at her potentially being a vigilante using uh using kingpin as her mask i thought that was very cool very cool i do think she'll go after karen i think because she is not she is not she is not in any way

[00:54:01] oh like superhuman i think her her target if anything would be another human and this person who made her uh who outed her in her mind who took away her boyfriend yada yada yada yada will be karen page so i think that's like karen will be hunted by lady muse if you will call it that i i definitely think that's gonna happen all because matt woke up out of his coma and asked for karen

[00:54:28] uh who hadn't been seen for uh for months on end in front of heather glenn yes bad buzz bad buzz um one of the big moments in the finale uh is that we have jessica jones uh with her wonderful lovely daughter danielle as luke cage arrives back dressed in his awesome outfit i love uh love this looks like uh like mayor um cage from the comic books he has that that cool look uh comes in gives her a massive

[00:54:56] hug and she closes the door and the glass is in place alias investigations is back in operation uh probably hasn't gone out of operation for the last eight or nine years but awesome to see uh that we have the two of them back together in hell's kitchen and uh alias investigations is there and ready to go yeah and i i just can't wait to see i really hope upon hope that people watch the next season

[00:55:20] that they are given a uh they are given next season uh like jessica jones is given the right amount of time she becomes even more beloved and we get a season a new season on disney plus of jessica jones because i think the character of kristen ritter now being a mom too with her powers in and out you get it

[00:55:46] gives a lot of potential for story and we've seen a resurgence of jessica jones in the comic books um so we definitely know there's a wider audience as well and we saw a resurgence of jessica jones from netflix when it came to disney plus um so it's about booking in uh kristen ritter because she is a very busy actress and then just writing and i think that's one where i would love to see the powers that be

[00:56:14] really kind of lean towards as long as everything goes well next season yeah absolutely i'll repeat once again what the powers that be at disney have said watch the episodes as they're coming out that's the only way to guarantee a fourth season i've seen absolutely tons of articles on the uh drop-off from season one the lower viewing figures for daredevil season two um and the response that i've seen at least online is loads of people are just waiting for the full season to come out and then watch

[00:56:44] just they don't care anymore they don't want to watch it week to week anymore if they're watching like that disney's not going to produce this stuff we're more likely to get things like the punisher one one last kill this one hour episode rather than getting series of the tv and i think there's a place for both i'd love to see more uh disney tv um actual tv shows with multiple episodes over multiple weeks that get people really interested in the characters and lots to discuss it's not about

[00:57:10] just the story um it's about a weekly story about ongoing storytelling you know and the fact that we're already down to just eight episodes in these shows instead of the 13 weeks to have in the past where we can't explore the characters and why they're doing what they're doing you know uh something that i think really uh was lost in this season um was christian mcduffie you know she's a very competent lawyer who used to work for da hockberg there was definitely would have been a storyline as to why

[00:57:37] she was resistant to challenge what he was doing in court because she worked with him in the past and had a connection in the past and it was all boiled down to one line when he turned to work for fisk where she's going i can't believe that you've sold your soul like that that's kind of it you get if that was in a proper tv show the like the old netflix days we would have had some more characterization work uh for her and now she feels like she was almost incompetent without mass being around i know

[00:58:03] that sounds really bad but she only had one or two lines and she was lead attorney on the case right um she was and running the practice when matt wasn't around exactly you know so she's definitely competent just wasn't shown on screen because i didn't have time i guess yeah exactly uh anything else on the wrap-up chris the final is and we've already mentioned it matt ends up in prison he is taken away uh from his beautiful date with karen where they thought they'd have more time

[00:58:30] i did for a second when he did his usual cocked head and we heard sirens i was like oh is he going to run off and be daredevil again is that i thought we were going to get almost like a spider-man peter parker on a date with mj hearing a kind of an alert and then running off and we would have seen daredevil kind of running across rooftops jumping twisting things like that um so it was interesting

[00:58:54] i did not think he would end up in jail um so seeing that uh fallout i think is interesting for a setup for next season i think that's key which is well what do you do when matt murdoch and daredevil are in prison i think in the comic books at one point electra was daredevil um and yeah

[00:59:21] like i think quite recently actually yeah i think that was when matt was dead but anyway do you have karen page do you have electra do we bring back elodie young um as electra next season who dons the her her suit plus a mask and a thing like do we have resistant fighters as we are daredevil and you have an army of people dressed as daredevil who are daredevil um yeah it's interesting to see

[00:59:50] where you take it absolutely and i think that's where i end a lot of it which is i wish it was a fantastic ending but i wish i got an inch more just because something to kind of wet the whistle kind of but i think what they did purposely was here is some threads that if we left it at this if we did not get

[01:00:13] a season three yeah you're okay you know where things are headed but they're like okay well we're getting a season three so it's also you can kind of fantasize about where me go exactly exactly like what like what we've really got here is we've got this the city streets will be taken care of because luke cage and jessica jones are back in hell's kitchen so that's fine while daredevil's in prison we've got that and then we've got punishers coming next week we've got a story there uh in the city of

[01:00:40] new york coming up very soon and then we've got spider-man uh coming up in just about a month's time so um so we're gonna get to see that as well right so we'll so we'll have some indication of what's going on in new york but it takes matt off the table for any other appearances in things like the avengers doomsday uh between now and next year right so as i have a reason why matt will not appear anywhere else uh even spider-man i would guess at this stage because he's in prison right

[01:01:06] you'd have to have a have a reason to break um matt out of jail to to appear in in spider-man so they don't have to do that but isn't it interesting that there was a prison scene in this spider-man trailer oh there's always a prison scene sure all the cynicistics are in prison exactly exactly um they're in there with daredevil they're trapped in there with him uh any any other notes chris that you want to mention uh for the episode before we close it out none from my side it's fantastic truth is

[01:01:36] great and shall prevail uh is one that one note that i took and i just thought was really funny uh that that's the uh quote that's sitting in the courtroom uh above there that must be i should look up who who that quote should be attributed to because in a courtroom having truth is great written on the wall um it just seemed a little a little underplayed uh for a courtroom um so chris one last

[01:02:00] thing to do then silence do you defend this episode chris do you defend daredevil born again season two episode eight yes much like john who's no longer with them rest in peace or rest his voice in peace uh his voice in peace absolutely i give it five indian takeouts out of five this is actually one of the better endings definitely better than last season's ending um and i i think it just as a

[01:02:26] whole for an episode gave you everything you wanted in a daredevil seat episode it gave you courtroom it gave you fisk versus matt it gave you some emotion it gave you action it gave you daredevil it gave you it wrapped things up well but also left some things on the table um so yeah for me this was a fantastic episode one of the better ones uh derek what about you do you defend this episode of daredevil absolutely

[01:02:55] yeah i totally agree with you chris this is an excellent finale for daredevil and what i love about it is this can only be done in comic book tv yeah so we've wondered about comic books being translated to tv shows and where they fit in genres and how what type of tv show they'll be it could be an action adventure show like a hundred other action adventure shows it could be a courtroom drama like a million other courtroom dramas it could be a police procedural like a

[01:03:24] thousand billion other police procedurals this is daredevil and having the idea of the person that you're trying to take down throughout the entire season in wilson fisk becoming mayor you're going well how are they going to deal with it are they going to deal with it in one of those three genres will it be the action adventure punch in the face will it be um the the police procedural put in prison will it be courtroom drama taken down by the justice system what i didn't expect to happen was

[01:03:50] the comic book way where wilson fisk rips open the door and starts crushing people's heads before and before facing off against our our daredevil hero uh where they don't throw punches and they talk him down and they come to a resolution which is about giving the city peace it is about grace and plays into the plays into the show it really felt like a comic book it felt like the final issue in an eight issue arc

[01:04:15] telling the story of daredevil uh daredevil born again and mayor frisk i loved it thought it was absolutely excellent and again something that could never be done on any other type of show other than a comic book show i think yeah no i love it great well done lads well done well done well do the bus take a round absolutely speaking of taking a round chris let's go to the pub yay yes off to the Josie's Bar for our final question in our Josie's Bar quid season two question eight chris

[01:04:45] what is mayor wilson fisk's middle name did we know this before we did from literally the netflix when he uh we had his origin right i didn't know that we we knew his middle name but uh chris do you want to one more time one more time one more time what is mayor wilson fisk's middle name fantastic there

[01:05:11] you go that is the eighth question of eight all you need to do is gather together the correct answers to all eight questions email the two feedback at tv podcast industries.com and you could be with a chance of getting your hands on some daredevil goodies um we have two weeks i think before we'll be recording our roundup episode maybe three uh given uh all the other stuff that's going on at the moment we want to close out the boys in their final season as well which will be uh which will be finishing in about two weeks time uh so you have a bit of time to get all your answers into us we hope

[01:05:39] you join us for our pub quiz and our wrap-up and that email address is the same place you send in your feedback for each of the episodes or for this whole season of daredevil born again um let's go over to our fellow defenders for some feedback chris let's do it first up we have a voicemail in from harrison fox greetings vigilante supporters when i was a boy my father always told me to know your worth which is why after being offered a plea deal for illegal arms trading

[01:06:06] i made sure to murder like 20 people before accepting it and he still ends up on that beach uh amazing finale unbelievable the courtroom scene to top all courtroom scenes daredevil unmasked bb unmasked lady muse unmasked via a mask jessica jones not only getting coffee with luke but now

[01:06:32] stitching up matt she's really embracing that claire role um no just unbelievable the call back to karen and matt's first date at the restaurant i just i think this was just perfect everything about this was perfect a great way to leave off this the uh series right now uh matt being in prison and we have

[01:06:59] spider-man coming out in two months and spoilers if you didn't see the trailer we know that spider-man's going to be fighting the hand in a prison maybe there's a connection i don't know um no fantastic i cannot wait to hear what you guys have to say um just five injured bucks out of five loved it

[01:07:23] fantastic thanks harrison yeah thanks harrison yeah they they did do a lot of unmasking when you look at you say it like that i do agree with you though which is like fisk like this is randomly well not randomly fisk murdering like 13 people or at least grave grievously harming like six and killing six

[01:07:48] um before he takes a plea deal and runs away and gets off get full immunity you're like okay um fair i do say he has to give up his his american citizenship don't they so he is kind of stuck on that island and he does have a big problem with sand um uh that's all that's there is just sand he doesn't have a house uh or anything he's just he's living out on the beach uh um no i i i think um you're right it's it's almost like in that moment

[01:08:17] where he cracks he goes and i've been holding back from killing people for so long i think i need to kill some people before i take that plea deal because the plea deal doesn't change even though he kills a bunch of people in the courthouse right yeah the only thing i i i was actually hoping was that when because it was some of it looked like a cgi beach i was hoping that it would kind of fade away and it would be him in prison right staring at a wall uh or staring at a white

[01:08:46] wall and imagining himself on the beach um that's what i was hoping for we don't get that we don't get that no no we don't uh excellent stuff thanks harrison for your voicemail as well we've got an email in from reina as well reina says greeting lads what a fantastic final this is probably up there with the netflix seasons for me as cathartic i beat you was the whispering acceptance from fisk was just as good for me i appreciate the fact they spent so long in the courtroom building the tension i like

[01:09:12] how matt took control of his own fate and didn't let fisk out him excited to see if they do the devil in cellbox d for season three very good heather has finally accepted the mask now i do wonder how she is going to be as muse she isn't necessarily very artistic or skilled in fighting on the other hand is book okay bleeding out in the ground unemployed mind you also daniel says how long till you end up on the floor with a gun pointed at your head and this literally the next day it

[01:09:38] happens it was good to see pal in prison though i rather i'd rather see him dead and cole north finally reverted to the side he should be on luke returning this episode was unexpected dex going mr charles feels like a setup to get bullseye into the thunderbolts or something like that i know the show has gotten criticism for its shorter runtime which i think really just comes down to disney being disney but with what they were given i think they executed a great season and giving them leeway for not wrapping everything up given the time and the possibility to wrap it up next

[01:10:07] season the story isn't finished yet five when i was a boys out of five letters gators reina excellent stuff thanks very much for the feedback there um yeah i think i think i said this earlier on i've said it multiple times throughout the season the big challenge for disney is balancing the cost of these shows and the viewership that's that's kind of it you know we've had um some big successes and things like the mandalorian on disney which is finally making it to the to the movie theaters um but we've had

[01:10:36] some shows that have uh have crashed without people watching them on a weekly basis and that's what they are planning it into if you have a show that's eight episodes long comes out weekly that's two subscriptions what they're expecting out of that everybody to pay for two months so they watch the eight episodes and if people are just buying you know one month to watch all episodes in one month halving the amount of revenue they can expect from it there's all the financey revenue type thing so

[01:11:00] um yeah we are more likely to get shorter shows less episodes in future um i would say rather than having longer shows unfortunately yeah there was a discussion in one of the trades about how some seasons might even go to six episodes uh so shorter production time shorter editing time like so you're basically cutting two episodes off but they still get the theoretical two months out of

[01:11:27] like out of someone um or it will actually be five weeks because it's two episodes to kick off and then four episodes so i remember reading that in the trades i was like yeah that actually makes somewhat sense but you're again you're cutting in eight hour show down to a six hour show again just i know the other thing for daredevil was that they had um 18 episodes originally commissioned yep

[01:11:56] they did nine episodes in season one eight episodes season two and the reason they lost an episode was so so they could redirect the budget to retool uh season one to turn it into a show much more like the netflix daredevil which they knew uh they expected most people would prefer yes so yeah um but thanks reina no i agree i i think most of the things you said is which is most people are happy and we are getting a season three and interested to see where it goes exactly exactly i love the idea

[01:12:26] that uh that daniel has um a superpower of clairvoyance that he said how long is it going to be before you're bleeding on the ground uh with somebody pointing a gun at you and that's basically what happened to buck uh it is really sad that daniel's gone i must say vincent onofrio's delivery in that moment when he's told by buck that daniel didn't deliver bb and he knows that daniel has been killed by buck um it's completely silent moment but you see it in uh in the face of

[01:12:53] incest onofrio that daniel didn't last i suppose um and then he he delivers the line i feel the pressure of the city on me i didn't realize it in the past um and you feel that's kind of connected to daniel as well so uh really great scene i thought yeah no 100 thanks so much reina thanks over on another email we have feedback from coffee and vodka who had this to say greetings fellow

[01:13:16] courted defenders even without including turk claire or melvin it's clear what the season has been clean up on aisle daredevil born again season one with that ending it seems as though with daredevil born again season three we are we are about to finally get daredevil season four with absolutely the best daredevil source material ever the brew baker era the devil in cell block d

[01:13:44] and return of the king have been firmly queued up and i could not be happier but we are here to talk about this episode and this season in both cases i'd have to say point dexter elevated both as a provider of quality violence and as scarter pain's chief broom his diner scene will forever be right up there with daredevil's first hallway kerfuffle the final confrontation between daredevil and kingpin

[01:14:12] could only be what it was satisfyingly verbal with the courthouse replacing the diner after already have having had their physical fight i do take some issue with the ease with which the crowd was stopped from tearing wilson apart especially after his previously injuring killing so many protesters don't see much happening with the lady muse in the future unless she's to replace lady bullseye

[01:14:39] possible spoiler but of powell's fate being stuck in the slammer with matt there's little doubt likewise it looks like bb's been more or less shelved it was great to see jessica reunited with luke while giving benjamin a purpose finally though more cameo than featured it was a pleasure to meet agent shaggy all in all an excellent transitional episode and season 4.5 book shots pasted protesters and self

[01:15:08] outed avocados out of five peace and take care coffee and vodka ah yes avocados in law outed good callback absolutely absolutely great stuff coffee vodka um is bb off the table interesting um i love the fact that we have um ellison back here uh we'd noticed that she was sending that text message to

[01:15:31] ellison from the daredevil seasons um on her phone she was texting him so she had a connection um i'd like to think that what the show is really talking about there is the difference between her doing her online bb report and being recognized by legitimate media like the new york bulletin and people like fisk talk about um legitimate media as being fake news but now that he's gone the news can take over

[01:15:58] again and start reporting again so she's now got a place within legitimate media just like ben eric did so i think that's what they're really saying whether she will become the news reporter for season three of daredevil born again rather than her being off the table she'll be able to be part of news media which will start reporting correct news again uh rather than being the mouthpiece of uh of the of the mayor right yes and also some of those pieces were from ben on daredevil and kingpin so yes yes he was he was

[01:16:27] given the box of of his uh of all of his articles uh from back in the day as well so yeah very cool so allowing her to almost build up additional cases and stuff like that and kind of understand the story of daredevil yes and in a good daredevil show somebody has to work at the bull and yes and even karen worked there for a while exactly exactly great stuff thanks coffee vodka and thanks for your feedback throughout the season as well it's been great hearing your thoughts as we went uh

[01:16:53] throughout the season uh we have another voicemail chris a voice from steve brown yes hello tv podcast industries this is steve and uh this is for all right is defenders is defenders for both the boys and daredevil anyway this is for daredevil the season season uh two uh final episode wow such a great final episode set up for the next season as well and that reveal at the end i was not

[01:17:19] spoiled uh about luke cage's return so it was great to see him walk in the door there uh there at the end uh and uh as uh um jessica closes the door and we see the alias investigation sign uh which is is intact apparently um so at least for this for now uh we'll see how long uh that lasts but yeah it's a great final episode uh matt going to jail kingpin on his island uh somewhere i guess we'll have to see

[01:17:48] where we go from here uh what is season three going to hold for us uh what do they have i mean we've got matt in jail how is he gonna get out of this uh can't wait to watch it again and then talk about it with my podcast partner uh talk to you later brilliant stuff thanks steve yeah i'll be uh looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say over in the palance to pixels podcast uh about daredevil uh thanks for taking the opportunity to uh to send us in a voicemail uh with your thoughts as well uh it's

[01:18:15] on defenders it's fellow defenders and boys it's fellow boys and girls yeah that's the that's the difference isn't it yep yeah and on gen v because it's in college we called them alumni didn't we we did students oh we also we don't we did uh the the light and dark siders uh and the the sith and jedi um over when we covered uh some of the bad batch we've done we've done many many

[01:18:41] yes yes we usually come up with uh with something fun uh but always for the marvel shows has always been defenders uh right back to our first days on there uh but yes great to hear your thoughts uh i'm glad you enjoyed the uh the episode as much as we did as well yeah i agree and i can't wait to hear more over on your podcast absolutely thanks steve uh we also got an email in from meryl smith who says order in the court the finale of Daredevil Born Again is here and has now concluded

[01:19:07] and it was spectacular after all the battles in this entire season the biggest one happened in matt's perfect arena of choice the court where he does his best work fisk already suffered a severe enough beating from matt a couple of episodes ago where he kind of hit at the heart of what this conflict really does boil down to between the two of them their love for new york and if they have the ability to walk away from it to save it you can tell how in this element he really is considering how many times he's shown smiling and making jokes already like it's an easy layup for him to expose the truth

[01:19:36] to fisk also i love a good reference to a few good men getting a person to reveal things that they weren't even on trial for classic there's a statement in the spectacular spider-man said by green goblin that goes we all wear masks but which one is which the one that hides your face or the one that is your face and that's the general gist of what is getting from that discussion between matt and heather once the reveal happens i think that was the final push that she needed to complete her transformation

[01:20:02] that and punching that guy in the neck into the lady muse one of my favorite moments was fisk whispering to matt from the other room knowing that he could hear him with matt responding to him and having to cover in front of other people the back and forth between them reaches its fever pitch with him revealing his identity i am daredevil a la tony stark's i am iron man style with the creative staff ricochet tossing it to be as dramatic as possible powell's reaction was priceless and it

[01:20:28] did give him some points in my book for the humor of the situation he's now at negative 20 for a moment there i did think it was buck in that bullseye suit but apparently fisk found time in his busy schedule to hire an impersonator who definitely won't be in season three it looks like dex is finally on the other end of that trick but there's only bullseye and there's only ever gonna be one which made me think of a funny bit in which dex removes the mask of a copycat bullseye and it's

[01:20:53] revealed to be colin farrell and what's a daredevil series without a hallway fight scene matt's second one with jessica jones what makes this better is that even kingpin got in on it boo i also couldn't help but think about the rogue one darth vader hallway scene too because of the similar vibes and level of brutality my favorite scene was definitely seeing kingpin covered in the blood of the people of the city and saying that they're wrong about him and he fought for them i think that he may have

[01:21:20] gotten a couple of wires crossed there i still don't understand there was even still a deal to be offered after that slaughter but i digress this was definitely an interesting new status quote put matt and fisk in this time around one's in jail and the other in exile a special shout out to the officer whose name keeps escaping me every time everyone remembers it escapes me again and she's talking about coal and that one standing up to powell and letting the people into the courthouse while also not being let off the hook for the actions that he did still do in the line of duty

[01:21:50] next is bb who is the great spirit of people taking off their masks remove her own when exposing all of fisk's dirty deeds love the creative use of the color red in that scene as well karen even gets a moment to shine here and i love that she and mac had a nice quiet dinner together even if it was brief another thing to highlight is that i'm sure spider-man is somewhere remembering that moment in his apartment and coming to his own realization about why his lawyer was able to catch that brick

[01:22:17] very good it was good seeing another fellow defender in the form of luke cage sweet christmas i'm also intrigued by that spin-off pitch of bullseye and mr charles which i call shaggy decks it'll be nice to move on to some other members of daredevil's rogues gallery the defender setup is here and i look forward to seeing what they do next five hallway slaughter fest scenes and a fun fantastic thanks meryl thanks meryl yes slaughter fest scenes is definite there was a fair amount of blood in this one

[01:22:47] actually when you think there certainly was yeah and i think just because we have fisk always in the white suit uh the blood really shows up uh yeah when when fisk is crushing skulls i think in the past he'd taken off that white that white jacket but not even willing to do that here he's just gonna go straight through every protestor he can get his hands on uh throughout it uh meryl i absolutely love the idea that if we took off that mask it would be uh colin farrell and i'm sure knowing colin farrell's

[01:23:12] sense of humor he would have loved to have been in for just a quick second yeah no can you imagine he definitely would have i would he would have um i i did like the the the fake um at home thrift store poser costume they did pull together like and you can see the comparative it's basically like the cosplay versus the the the actual or the the the homemade versus the actual professional cosplayer kind of version and you're like genuinely because i didn't know what was coming when i watched

[01:23:42] it the first time i was going that's just the outfit that snipers who work for the swat team wear and that's where dex got his outfit from he must have kept it when he was a sniper you know he must just retooled it slightly uh from when he was a sniper and then i was going oh no no no the guy is dressed up in cosplay as as him okay right i get it then so uh yeah so i i was fooled for a second yeah and that's why they did it exactly exactly uh brilliant stuff thanks meryl uh we're gonna pop over to

[01:24:09] discord for our next bit of feedback chris yes over on discord dr bob had this to say shot through the liver and bullseyes to blame he gives vigilantes a bad name yes just in case chris makes it to the podcast to set the ears of the listeners bleeding yay i had to just because dr bob specifically requested me but even if you'd read it in advance you would

[01:24:38] have had the bon jovi uh bon jovi song in your head wouldn't you i would have but i wouldn't have sang just because dr bob called it out if but if he hadn't have called it out i probably would have sang it probably would have sang yeah see that's how it works yeah you like i you zig i zag that's it that's it dr bob went on to say never expected matt to out himself the white tiger to

[01:25:03] finally appear or for the resolution to be grace although that is the perfect way for daredevil to undo the deadlock with fisk absolutely brilliantly balanced episode that brought everything the arc delighted in courtroom twist corridor fights romance and heartbreak and justice standing up where the last step to side plus a throw punch for the creepy da absolutely you know honestly i think that was probably my favorite moment in the episode even if it was heather glenn that did it i think i just

[01:25:32] enjoyed seeing the horrible da get a punch in the throat yeah no 100 thanks dr bob absolutely thanks dr bob and over in our facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash tv podcast industries jules sharpton says an amazing episode in an alarmingly good season rivals the best of the netflix season for sure didn't love the use of jessica but my guess is that's mostly set up for the future can't wait to

[01:25:55] see punisher next week thanks joel yeah i didn't know but as derek said like she she was busy filming dexter um so that made sense so yes setup but more fantastic that we have her my namesake continues to rock on screen absolutely christopher jessica jones yeah um yeah um yeah i just remember when the announcement uh came in that she was cast in dexter um lots of daredevil fans are going but

[01:26:23] dexter shoots in new york daredevil shoots in new york can she not appear for an episode and she was going no no it's a full-time job being over in dexter and then we watched the season of dexter and she didn't appear in it as much as i was expecting her to appear in it she has about three or four episodes i think it is she's a very big character in it but three or four episodes i think and she was supposed to be a central character and that's when i started to suspect that she might be over in uh in filming both at the same time basically so uh yeah yeah very cool

[01:26:51] thanks joel thanks joel we also have some feedback from alissa lynn muska one of my favorite matt court scenes charlie really gave a good performance curious to see how they'll adapt devil and cell block d since it is so different that's another call out for devil and cell block d yeah i think i think a lot of people will have to go use marvel unlimited and read it or go to your local comic book store

[01:27:17] and buy some of the collected editions um before next year yeah yeah uh one of the things i always want to give away as as part of our uh part of our goodies for uh for our pub quizzes is access to marvel unlimited because it is great literally when somebody calls out something like this i just go into marvel unlimited go right devil and cell block d that's my reading material for the weekend i haven't read that in ages so i'd love to read it again i think it's in there so i think that's what i'm going

[01:27:43] to be reading um so you never know that might be what one of the goodies will be uh for our uh for our pub quiz so get your answers in for that and great stuff thanks alissa thanks alissa mathematician says episode eight was an episode of sacrifices matt sacrifices freedom to give karen hers we know that for sure that daniel is dead sacrificing himself so bb could survive and buck sacrificing himself to save fisk's life putting the kingpin in the dock was a risky move for matt knowing how good

[01:28:12] the mischievous mayor is at manipulating the truth i love how the finale was written as a head-to-head between matt v wilson rather than daredevil v kingpin unexpected angle for me loved it after matt martin himself allowing fist to keep his freedom i would now like to see some new villains for season three or it will all have been for nothing if we just have daredevil versus kingpin again hopefully the rumored reunion for the defenders for the next series along with the hand being part of this spider-man movie means they will head off in another direction next time around in the meantime the city

[01:28:42] responded to matt's personal sacrifice by coming out to stand up to fisk some of them paying a heavy price of their own with shattered spines and smushed heads as kingpin goes berserk matt revealing his identity a la tony stark was an enormous surprise every now knows who he is and i can't see dr strange agreeing to that dodgy spell again after the mess it caused last time no more anonymous nighttime crime fighting loved how terrified the pretend bullseye was when he realized the real deal was

[01:29:09] standing right behind him he was bricking it and it was great to see angela join up with jess and matt to show us what she can do as the white tiger the least satisfying part for me was the lack of a beating pal took and he even gives matt a confident smarmy look during the scene in the prison i desperately wanted him to pay a bigger price than he did also heather becoming muse was a strange turn up for me not sure where they'll take that moving on a nice ending for the defenders members

[01:29:35] with jessica satisfyingly calling fisk kingpin rather than mayor kingpin emphasizing to him that his reign of terror is over and luke cage returning from his black ops work for val to reunite the family matt saves fisk's life one last time before being arrested himself and thrown behind bars not too sure why they haven't set it sent him to the raft or agent cleary's dodc supermax prison he can escape whenever he chooses to surely alias investigations is up and running again and mr

[01:30:01] charles looks happier than the proverbial pig when collecting his million miles frequent flyer award great episode great season bring on frank castle great stuff mathematician um yeah it is interesting we now have a third location right we have we have just a regular prison in new york uh we wondered all the way throughout wonder man why they weren't using the raft we wondered why uh now we're wondering why they're not using the drdc location or the raft um we know that they have troubles right

[01:30:27] filling up uh with people and matt has outed himself as a vigilante and super buried right so uh yeah he probably should be in one of those two the only thing that i was wondering about is we don't see any court case yes matt's arrested by the police and he's put in prison similar to um to karen but karen was put behind bars in a certain precinct that i won't name because that was the question from last week um but she's put behind bars he's put behind a metal door right is he being held there until his

[01:30:57] court case comes down because he must be right he can't just be put in prison with no due process i would assume it will be everyone keeps talking about the the devil in cell block d it might actually just be the the trial of matt murdoch um in the next season where in actual fact rather than him being by him where this is like yeah holding like essentially or kind of gen pop holding to a

[01:31:21] degree versus super max or because it does all seem very quick and you would expect matt the the trial of matt murdoch to be a really interesting piece of tv like yeah he he represents himself maybe he doesn't maybe does karen who is also an attorney or for was for a while had some

[01:31:46] abilities well you'd hope his other partner christian mcduffy yes would represent and then maybe the door swings open and foggy comes back from the dead to um defend yeah matt murdoch no he's dead probably not he is he he he is dead deceased no more but i had one thing that i i do want to say from comic books um when matt's uh when matt was revealed as uh being daredevil far as i remember in the comic there's a

[01:32:13] really weird one where they used killgrave's children to wipe the minds of everybody that knew that matt murdoch was daredevil um so maybe they might do that the tv show i don't think so i suspect they don't want to go that route with uh at least with the daredevil tv show but just because of the connection of killgrave and and jessica jones it would be interesting to have his kids come back and wipe everybody's mind yeah uh but in the comics it led to wilson fisk knowing there was

[01:32:38] something about daredevil that he used to know and doesn't anymore and kind of set him on an even bigger path to track down uh matt murdoch was a really interesting storyline so um i don't know maybe they'll go that way i have i'm gonna have to read that i love comics they just have such great storylines don't they yeah it does sound very almost almost too close to uh spider-man and the

[01:33:00] films so i'd say that's why they wouldn't do that um but i can see them playing a uh like bringing bullseye in as daredevil or someone else cosplaying as daredevil vigilante and it's just like well actually i'm daredevil it's been all along and then it's your daredevil and your matt murdoch together at the same time how is that possible um maybe maybe that might be a way to do it but

[01:33:28] so yeah i love the idea that somebody could take up the mantle while he's in prison uh even if uh everybody thinks everybody knows that he is or was daredevil for a while somebody else taking on i also love the fact because this is a comic book show chris you said earlier on uh in comic books um that was when matt murdoch was dead um because that can be a state that happens for a very short amount of time in the comic books or for a year or two you know while he was dead somebody else took on the mantle and then he came back to life because they do in comics now we we do know an

[01:33:57] extremely skilled martial artist who is also caucasian and could put a beard on and could cosplay as or could put on the costume temporarily maybe he comes back seeing that we've had three of the four defenders um so maybe daddy rant takes on because he is no longer the iron fist he could become the daredevil that that's also a possibility also a possibility uh loads of things uh that we'd

[01:34:25] love to see uh if the show gets enough uh story time to tell them all i don't know um we we definitely have one more season of daredevil coming up uh next year um all being filmed at the moment so um lots of speculation about what's going to be happening in that show i'm really looking forward to it but the one thing i am looking forward to and is coming really really soon uh is the punisher special presentation one last kill which is coming out in disney plus next week on may 12th

[01:34:51] um we are away on holidays from may 12th unfortunately and the punisher uh the boys season five and good omens will all be coming out on the same day once again uh the final episode of good omens the penultimate episode of the boys and the one-off one shot that is uh punisher all coming out in one day and we're not here so all of those are going to have to be delayed unfortunately but there will be

[01:35:17] spoiler posts up for each of them on our facebook group and on discord leave your thoughts there we want to hear what you think about them so we can discuss them in full detail when we get back from our holidays yes because much like the city rising up you too shall rise up and write us some feedback so we can fill out the episode and discuss your thoughts because we are defenders you are defenders

[01:35:41] the whole dang city is a defender absolutely thanks so much for joining us throughout the season we hope you join us for a wrap-up and for our pub quiz podcast in a couple of weeks time at four daredevil or at the very least join us for our punisher special presentation in a couple of weeks time as well uh thanks so much we will speak to you again really soon yes thank you so much and we'll speak to you

[01:36:02] again in a few weeks until then keep watching keep listening and keep defending bye bye right um my voice

[01:36:32] comes to you today from 40 a day laramie wood pine cigarettes out of five fantastic right i need my notes you some of that chris with that would you like to give us the synopsis for daredevil born again season two episode eight the southern cross sure as caram pray that actually hurt

[01:36:59] like it harkens back to their fight under uh in uh fisk's personal chambers where he had the uh white rabbit on snow um wait is that ours no rabbit in a snowstorm which had rabbit in a snowstorm the painting um first up we have a voicemail in from harrison fox

[01:37:30] that's not harrison fox but he does do an impression of king that's what i was like so i wasn't wrong to leave it on for a long for a long time okay back to harrison fox greetings vigilante supporters