Derek and John are back this week to discuss VisionQuest Episodes 7 Immolation the penultimate episode of the season. Make sure you have watched it before you listen as we spoil all the big reveals and twists of the episode.
VisionQuest Episode 7 Immolation Synopsis
Vision Character Created by Roy Thomas and artist John Buscema
Creator and Showrunner: Terry Matalas
Episode 7 Directed by: Terry Matalas
Episode 7 Written by: Matthew Okumura
In 1939, Phineas Horton creates J.I.M. to cope with the death of his son James. His focus on the creation of this alternate synthetic being alienates his wife and daughter. After Phineas sells their home to fund his obsession his estranged wife and his daughter leave him and emigrate to New York. His daughter takes Phineas' scientific notepad with her.
In the present, Jocasta uses the collected bio-keys to unlock the nest which stores her nanobots. But a sixth key is required to unlock the cradle that she was unaware of. Using the keys sets off a chain reaction that brings The Client to both her and Vision.
The Client offers to help Jocasta learn about her past and restore her missing memories, while he also offers Vision access to his subconsciousness to find his source code. He promises this code will fix Lisa and make Vision complete by allowing him to feel. In return Vision will surrender himself to The Client or face destruction.
Requiring a significant energy supply, Vision enters his subconscious with help from the Paladin and a familiar weapon once wielded by Corvus Glaive. In his sub-processors Vision encounters manifestations of Ultron, the original Vision, J.I.M., and Horton. Speaking with J.I.M vision is forced to confront the reality that the memories he has are his own and he accepts that he Tommy as his son. J.I.M. provides Vision with Horton's original code, allowing him to neutralise the nanobot controlling Lisa.
Meanwhile, Ultron and F.R.I.D.A.Y. follow Jocasta into her memories, where she finds that as Joe Carrington, she had a partner who resembled Ultron's human avatar. The Client, Carrington's partner, captures Jocasta as Ultron throws F.R.I.D.A.Y. off a balcony in Jocasta's mind palace
As Vision must now surrender himself to the Client, he leaves Tommy and Lisa asleep after they fly to London from Madripoor. Vision leaves Tommy a message and all episodes of WandaVision acknowledging him as his son and the loss of the rest of his family, Billy and Wanda.
After Vision is delivered to The Client by Paladin at a manor house resembling Phineas Horton's estate, the Client's men blow up the Paladin in his murder van as he leaves and the shadowy Client and owner of the estate with shot gun in hand is revealed to be Ultron's human avatar.
The VisionQuest Old Selkie Pub Quiz
During each podcast we'll ask a question about each episode in our The VisionQuest Old Selkie Pub Quiz. You can send in your answers at the end of the series to feedback@tvpodcastindustries.com At the end of VisionQuest the fellow Defenders with the most correct answers will be in with the chance of getting their hands on some VisionQuest goodies. All questions will be updated on: https://www.tvpodcastindustries.com
Episode 7 "Firewall" Question: What are the five bio-keys used by Jocasta in this episode in a failed attempt to open the Nest?
Marvel's VisionQuest Cast
- Paul Bettany as Vision
- Ruaridh Mollica as Thomas Sheppard/Thomas Maximoff
- Jonathan Sayer as U
- Henry Lewis as DUM-E
- Emily Hampshire as EDITH
- Orla Brady as FRIDAY
- Todd Stashwick as Paladin
- And T'Nia Miller as Jacosta
- with James Spader as Ultron
A Return to Defending
As we are in the Marvel TV universe we are using the format of our former Marvel podcast, Defenders TV Podcast. We discuss each episode in spoiler filled detail with our top five "Code Lines", Whether we each Defend the episode or not - Notes, Quotes and comic references
Where can I send Feedback for VisionQuest?
Once you've watched the episodes you can email us to feedback@tvpodcastindustries.com, you can message us @TVPodIndustries on Threads or join our Facebook group at https://facebook.com/groups/tvpodcastindustries or join us on our Discord server at https://discord.gg/DyVtkuuWZP and share your thoughts in our spoiler posts for each episode.
Follow us and Subscribe to the Podcast
If you want to keep up with us and all of our podcasts, please subscribe to the podcast over at https://tvpodcastindustries.com. Where we will continue to podcast about multiple TV shows we hope you'll love.
Next time on TV Podcast Industries
Thanks for joining us for our VisionQuest podcast. We will be back next week with the finale Episode 8 "Forever". We'll also be starting our new show The Lord Of The Rings The Rings of Power Season 3 which releases it's first four episodes on the 11th of November. We are looking forward to getting back to Middle Earth.
Until then, Keep Watching, Keep Listening and Keep Defending.
Derek, Chris and John
TV Podcast Industries
All images and audio clips are copyright of Disney, Marvel and their respective copyright owners. The music for this episode is the Public Domain song "Cobwebs" by HoliznaCC0.
00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the Defenders podcast on TV podcast industries.
00:03 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_01]: We are back with the penultimate episode of Vision Quest episode seven.
00:06 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Immulation.
00:08 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm the vision.
00:12 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I have always been the vision.
00:15 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_03]: There is only one.
00:16 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I am here.
00:22 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_03]: And I am possibly broke.
00:27 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_03]: No, you are healed, and I envy you.
01:05 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back fellow defenders to the defenders podcast on tv podcast industries We are talking about the penultimate episode of vision quest episode seven in relation just one episode this week And I am one of your host Derek hello there fellow defenders welcome back I am one of your other hosts John yep Chris is a sciving again
01:28 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, locked up in somebody's mind-pulse somewhere.
01:31 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_01]: That was a Google space.
01:32 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Thinking about what he's doing for himself, he will be back for our finale podcast next week.
01:39 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We're recording a little bit earlier this week, but there is already one episode, and there's lots to talk about.
01:44 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Really, really good episode here in Episode 7, wasn't it?
01:47 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely enjoyed this so glad they just released one this time rather than two at a time.
01:57 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:58 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a investor holding hands, but I do think episodes are best solitary.
02:05 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, coming after us, it's much easier for us.
02:09 --> 02:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So I really enjoyed this because I kind of just sort of relax into it rather than thinking, oh, I've got another one or two more episodes to cover, which is also going to be the case with rings of power when they release four.
02:24 --> 02:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know what crazy person thought that up in a day.
02:27 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Today, I know you might as well just release the entire series.
02:31 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, yeah.
02:32 --> 02:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, not to detract from ultimately an absolutely fantastic series and in particular, I must say I've been really, really enjoying these last few episodes.
02:47 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And this one is just a continuation of that for me.
02:51 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this one works really well as an episode on its own because there's lots to think about.
02:55 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Lots to talk about and we'll chat all about it as we get into our discussion on the podcast here.
03:00 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Just a reminder, again, if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, we're going to close to the end of our coverage of vision quest.
03:04 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But as John mentioned, loads more stuff to come.
03:06 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_01]: throughout the rest of this year, including the third season of Lord of the Rings, the Rings of power coming out on the 11th of November, just in a week's time, so that'll be going straight into that.
03:16 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I can subscribe to the podcast over on our website at tvpodcastindustries.com.
03:20 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_01]: It can subscribe to any wick and or android living podcast player over there.
03:25 --> 03:41 [SPEAKER_01]: We also want to hear your thoughts about the shows that were covering an email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com, pop on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries or go to our Discord server at the details of which are in the show notes right here.
03:41 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_01]: We are also continuing our vision quest pub quiz with one more question in this very episode towards the end of the episode and the question 7 and at the end of the series all you need to do is email us with your correct answers and you could be able to chance of getting
03:54 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_01]: question quest goodies?
03:56 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes indeed fellow defenders and fellow quizzes just send them in to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com all eight answers.
04:05 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent stuff.
04:06 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Looking forward to it.
04:07 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we should get into our spoiler filled discussion of episode seven emulation and Derek who gave us what
04:20 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I can give you all of that information.
04:21 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But the show was created for television by Terry Matales.
04:25 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was great to see all of us start to have a car because he's a great showwriter, great great creative at a TV.
04:31 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why he took over from Jacques Jaffrey from why Jacques Jaffrey didn't stay around for the third part in her trilogy of shows, which started with one division.
04:38 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_01]: But Terry Matales is delivering a really interesting take on the character vision and the continuation of story.
04:45 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I wrote it in our notes originally.
04:46 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_01]: This is based on the vision created by Tony Stark, Bruce Banner and brought a live by Thor.
04:52 --> 04:55 [SPEAKER_01]: That may change by the time we get to the end of the season.
04:55 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_01]: As we're learning, there are other people involved in the creation of vision that we were to wear out of back of the day.
05:01 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So we may be changing that for next year except for that.
05:03 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_01]: But really, the character was created by Roe Thomas on our his John Bushema and he first appeared in the Avengers number 57.
05:09 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_01]: The executive producer for the show are Kevin Feige, Louie Despisezo, Brad, Winterbam, Mary Levanas, Terry Battales, Jack J for and Christopher J.
05:17 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Burn, this episode directed by show winner Terry Battales, and the episode was written by Matthew Akumera.
05:23 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a writer and story editor on 15 episodes of Star Trek Picard, and he got his start on season two of Smallville.
05:30 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So excellent stuff.
05:32 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So good mix of it.
05:32 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_01]: God, I didn't know it was.
05:34 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Did like Smallville, then.
05:39 --> 05:41 [SPEAKER_00]: one of the few times I've enjoyed superman.
05:41 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh really?
05:42 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
05:43 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I forgot to you're not that massive a superman fan.
05:45 --> 05:47 [SPEAKER_01]: No, and the other one was Henry Cavill.
05:47 --> 05:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
05:47 --> 05:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
05:48 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, don't give him a round like Christopher Reeves well.
05:50 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So actually, I'm just sort of unpicking my own argument here, but I mean, Christopher Reeves has kid love of course.
05:57 --> 06:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember growing up, I was like, I'm not really that bothered and then smallville came on.
06:01 --> 06:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I like this.
06:03 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, increasingly, it was like, oh, not bothered, and then Henry Cavill came along, and it's great.
06:11 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and now I'm not necessarily bothered again.
06:15 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
06:15 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, interesting.
06:16 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know, but yeah, it's more just because it's more the actor that's spent using.
06:21 --> 06:33 [SPEAKER_00]: actually I really like the current actor play super man in the James Gunvers of DC, but it's not a character I can actually even when I like the actor to be honest.
06:34 --> 06:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And when I say I'd really enjoyed Henry Cavill, I really liked Manif Steele.
06:38 --> 06:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I found it very emotional.
06:40 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It really was a great retelling of the origin.
06:43 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So I like that.
06:44 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:45 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like I probably, I mean, as Daniel and I'm Superman as you, I did enjoy the last Superman movie.
06:51 --> 07:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very much looking forward to Superman and tomorrow coming next summer, where we get a bit of a bigger push for Superman, Supergirl, the Lanterns, you know, a much bigger movie coming up next year.
07:04 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And I enjoyed the last group member of the other thing that was the best group member we ever made.
07:07 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_01]: But I didn't enjoy it and David Korn thought it was a really good, a superman than that.
07:10 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_00]: No, he is.
07:10 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_00]: He is.
07:11 --> 07:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And to be honest, I can't imagine.
07:13 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Really enjoyed it until it started going like bananas, like with a fisher opening up, you know, across the mantle of the earth and well, yeah, and like a black hole for me.
07:30 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was like,
07:32 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Just really need to be this excessive in the first man in your new universe.
07:37 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah I was just like whatever Well, yeah, check down But at least you've absolutely loved Lexley through as well.
07:45 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I do actually.
07:46 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of like the villains It's kind of why I like Batman and it's kind of a little bit
07:52 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Dark and dangerous.
07:54 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
07:54 --> 07:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you always like dark and dangerous.
07:56 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_01]: But this is not our superman podcast.
07:58 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Not even our DC podcast.
08:00 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a whole podcast for that.
08:01 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to hear a thoughts on there on the recent Lantern series That's over there as well.
08:06 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_01]: We haven't recorded a podcast about Clayface yet Although we did really enjoy it.
08:10 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Highly recommend going to see that.
08:11 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
08:12 --> 08:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Really enjoy a little horror movie.
08:14 --> 08:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
08:14 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Really good fun.
08:15 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But for this show for a vision quest episode seven.
08:19 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Immelation John, do you want to give us your synopsis?
08:23 --> 08:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
08:24 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_00]: In 1939, Pheneas Horton creates J.I.M.
08:27 --> 08:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Jim to cope with the death of his son James.
08:31 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_00]: His focus on the creation of this alternate synthetic being alienates his wife and daughter.
08:36 --> 08:43 [SPEAKER_00]: After Pheneas sells their home to fund his obsession, his estranged wife and his daughter leave him and emigrate to New York.
08:43 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_00]: His daughter takes Pheneas's scientific note pad with her.
08:47 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: In the present, Tracaster uses the collected bio keys to unlock the nest which stores her nanobots, but a 6 key is required to unlock the cradle that she was unaware of.
08:59 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Using the keys has, however, set off a chain reaction that brings the client to both her and vision.
09:06 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_00]: The client makes an offer to Jakastas to help her learn about her past and restore her missing memories, while the also offers vision access to his subconsciousness to find his source code.
09:18 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_00]: He promises this code will fix Lisa and make vision complete by allowing him to feel.
09:24 --> 09:28 [SPEAKER_00]: In return, vision will surrender himself to the client or face destruction.
09:29 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Requiring a significant energy supply vision enters his subconsciousness with help from the paladin and a familiar weapon once wielded by Corvus Gleeve.
09:40 --> 09:47 [SPEAKER_00]: In his sub-processors vision encounters manifestations of Ultron, the original vision, JIM and Horton.
09:47 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Speaking with Jim, Vision is forced to confront the reality that the memories he has are in fact his own, and the accepts that Tommy is his son.
09:57 --> 10:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Jim provides Vision with Horton's original code, allowing him to neutralise the nanobot controlled Lisa just in time.
10:06 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, Ultron and Friday followed your castor into her memories, where she finds that as Joe Carrington, she had a partner who resembled Ultron's human avatar.
10:17 --> 10:24 [SPEAKER_00]: The client, Carrington's partner, captures Jakosta as Ultron throws Friday off a balcony
10:27 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_00]: As vision must now surrender himself to the client, he leaves Tommy and Lisa asleep after they fly to London from matriopore.
10:35 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Vision leaves Tommy a message and all episodes of Wonder Vision, acknowledging him as his son and the loss of the rest of his family, Billy and Wonder.
10:45 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_00]: After vision is delivered to the client by Paladin at the manor house resembling Phineas Horton's estate, the client's men blow up the Paladin in his murder van as he leaves, and the shadowy client and owner of the estate with shotgun in hand comes into the light and is revealed to be Ultron's human avatar.
11:06 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_01]: With an incredibly, incredibly well-maintained
11:12 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_00]: The show is also not only that hats, it's also about facial hair issues.
11:16 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It certainly is.
11:18 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you see the interview with Joe Spader about the beard?
11:21 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_01]: That was there last week he was saying that effectively he got cast in the role.
11:25 --> 11:26 [SPEAKER_01]: He was cast in some time around June.
11:26 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just around the time of his son's wedding.
11:29 --> 11:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And he was like, well, I've got a prepare for this role.
11:31 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got four months to prepare.
11:32 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to grow the beard from now until then.
11:35 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's a four month beard.
11:37 --> 11:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's old James Spader's beard.
11:39 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not make her and make up stuff.
11:40 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He must have turned up at first.
11:41 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I had set and said, this is what I'm doing.
11:44 --> 11:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been trapped in the loft by vision for five years.
11:48 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what would have happened to Ultron.
11:51 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_01]: The hair and make up people went, okay.
11:53 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess we're keeping it then.
11:56 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was his own idea.
11:58 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Good stuff mate.
11:59 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it makes sense.
12:01 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It makes sense.
12:01 --> 12:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, for sure.
12:02 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because I have a terrace always grow boots And I mean to it's a choice.
12:07 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is and I think as well to quote in kind of reverse from hot fuzz The only unbelievable thing in this movie was the fact that Lisa and Tommy don't wake up when they're playing land
12:24 --> 12:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that was also a very weird moment in the episode, wasn't it, yeah?
12:28 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but we're talking about that really funny, I was like, with everything going on, the least believable thing is the fact that they don't wake up when it touches down.
12:41 --> 12:49 [SPEAKER_01]: No, they've had a really stressful couple of days in Madrepoor, and then they fly all the way back to the UK, but fall asleep and don't wake up.
12:49 --> 12:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, I guess it was a private leer jet by the looks of it, so maybe the pilot was super duper gentle.
12:56 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're not like kind of a Ryan Erdogan word, like the undercarriage of the plane is about to sort of disintegrate because the force of impact.
13:05 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_00]: But they want to be like the space shuttle returning.
13:08 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, where they want to wake everybody up so it's quicker to get everybody off.
13:13 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_01]: off the plane.
13:14 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody has any excuses.
13:15 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody slept through that.
13:16 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no possibility.
13:17 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I wonder if it's just a little nod to the whole discussion that by parenthood here that sometimes when you bring your kid out for a drive, it falls asleep in the car and it's impossible to wake them out.
13:28 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, no way.
13:29 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So it might be just a little different nod to the
13:30 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not entirely sure that it is, but I do like that that could be a reason, exactly.
13:35 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
13:36 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get into our code lines for this episode.
13:39 --> 13:42 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got top three code lines because this time obviously we're only covering one episode.
13:42 --> 13:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll start with our code line number one.
13:47 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is Joe's missing pieces.
13:50 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Learn pretty quickly at the start of this episode.
13:53 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_01]: What?
13:54 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Jakasta wanted the keys for, and she wanted all the bio keys to open up the container that has all of the nanobots inside.
14:05 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_01]: She uses the five keys and finds out, oh hang on a second, there's a sixth bio key.
14:09 --> 14:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it needs a passcode and like not even a bio key, it just needs a key.
14:15 --> 14:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, exactly.
14:16 --> 14:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
14:17 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was quite interesting.
14:18 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
14:18 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the panel just kind of pulls back.
14:20 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, hang on a second.
14:21 --> 14:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I never noticed that before.
14:22 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_00]: There's been a couple of years I've been sitting here staring at this thing.
14:25 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
14:26 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of did quite like this there.
14:29 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
14:29 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of the, you know, it's the mystery surrounding the murkiness.
14:35 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think which is really good with jacoster around her missing memories.
14:42 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe this is part of it.
14:45 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_00]: that thought she has all the bio keys to open it, to reconnect with her technology.
14:51 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_00]: However, kind of frightening that is in terms of what her plan may be.
14:55 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And then all of a sudden here, you find that she needs this sixth passcode.
15:02 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_00]: This sixth lock, this sixth key from things described as a phantom partner.
15:08 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that kind of cloudiness that surrounds this phantom partner, possibly the client.
15:15 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_00]: all of this kind of stuff.
15:16 --> 15:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I also just want to say, I really enjoy the setting here of this tomb, or mostly and possibly in the church with the nest, but I just like the way Ultron describes this as, you know, someone put you in a unique cage after you passed away.
15:35 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's after he's calling her the butcher bird.
15:38 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I just like, I love the steam of birds.
15:41 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
15:41 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Around it, I don't know why, but yes, really enjoy that kind of whole setting here.
15:48 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
15:49 --> 15:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's really, it's really cool.
15:50 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to call out an email we got in from Dr. Bob Phillips, where he, where he joked about the fact that I had said, um, what's the new word for tomb?
15:59 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_01]: because the word also the image probably been around since 350 BC but when you're a timeless immortal like Derrick it's easy to forget mere human scales of things.
16:10 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I presume that's a reference to be turning 50 this this last month as well.
16:14 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks Doctorram.
16:20 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent.
16:20 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I had to bring it up.
16:22 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Great call out, of course.
16:24 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know.
16:25 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_01]: You're absolutely right, though, it is this cool setting.
16:28 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually only in the moment at the end of the episode when the arrival of the client's men to take away Jakasa that I realized, this is actually a real location.
16:36 --> 16:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It looks so pristine and so perfect for Joe Carrington's final resting place when you see her coffin with the stone on top of it and you see the,
16:45 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Nanobus beside it.
16:46 --> 16:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of thought this was another mind space that Jakastor was bringing people in and out of it.
16:52 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
16:53 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It turns out it's a real location.
16:55 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought when I only really realised that right at the end of the episode.
16:58 --> 16:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
16:59 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like then this nest, the cradle that all the Nanobots are stored in.
17:06 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost kind of like the blue screen wall of death on your computer, but it's like this high pitch ring.
17:13 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_00]: rings out and you have the shadow appear to jacoster.
17:19 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I think effectively saying that you know, his offer to her is that he can give her what she needs, which in this case is restoring her memories.
17:32 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think just at a high level, I just really loved how these two explorations of, you know, ultimately the electronic ram of these two synths, ran in parallel between jacosta and vision.
17:49 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I kind of just really enjoyed this.
17:51 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was great.
17:52 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And even just the triggering of it.
17:54 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, off the back of the five bio keys being used, I think that's cool.
17:58 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like,
17:59 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, the reason why the cradle is put in beside the grave is likely at some point in the future, Jakastov will come back, Joe Carrig will come back some way and she'll be able to program those five keys in there and then then we'll be able to have a connection with vision and with Jakastik as whenever it happens, that's how it triggers also, that was quite interesting.
18:21 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I like this and then sort of from the client saying, once you've remembered your past,
18:26 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_00]: then you can come to me.
18:28 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Then Ultron is kind of just the listening in and he kind of has that moment with with the client where he's just you send desperate you know laughing at the fight kind of starts laughing so yeah real yeah human again maybe some clues here with regards to who the client is or at least you know that the client isn't
18:53 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_00]: synthetic or robotic or cybernetic or whatever, you know.
18:59 --> 19:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So I really like this kind of stuff of jacaster looking to find her memories.
19:08 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think in particular then it moving to this loft department in New York, kind of back towards what I guess the early 90s or early
19:18 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's 2000 and ice, because it's the year before.
19:22 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're in that as well.
19:23 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
19:23 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, unfortunately.
19:24 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And, but I really enjoyed this.
19:26 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I like some around it.
19:27 --> 19:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, it could be 2006 to 2005.
19:28 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_01]: It's around the time of, uh, before Joe's death.
19:32 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So we know it's before.
19:33 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's right.
19:33 --> 19:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
19:34 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But I, but I, I love this.
19:37 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_00]: loft apartment in New York, sort of in the nauties and just the little visual clues that come up here for jacoster.
19:48 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I think in particular the one that springs to mind is when Ultron realizes this is the same space that he was held, yet hostage in
19:59 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_00]: What we thought was Vision's mind space.
20:02 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's some element of code leaking through here, because it's both here now in Jakosta's world and it was in Vision's.
20:12 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So something about the code here and possibly putting his little stamp on things by way of the loft department.
20:21 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it kind of leads on from last week's revelation that the code that was bought by Stack Industries was originally created by Sir Carrington, you know, so having that piece of code within Jakastan also within Ultron, there's a connection there that we can see that that code that was used to create.
20:37 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_01]: The start tech or used as part of building start tech was also continue to continue to create Jakosta which makes sense.
20:44 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_01]: They look quite similar.
20:44 --> 20:59 [SPEAKER_01]: They look like they may have come from the same place just from a build perspective but also seen there is connection between the two of them in the back end of the code and how it's being shown here by how would the same loft be in the same in these two different characters of these two different people.
20:59 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're a really good way of continuing to explain as I for people that may not be catching some of the
21:06 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_00]: definitely.
21:07 --> 21:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I like he even, I just like the little clues were, and Ultron's like, I didn't realize you were a painter, and she's like, well, no, I never, never had that much.
21:18 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Never ever had that in my skill set.
21:20 --> 21:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And you have the,
21:22 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_00]: the champagne bottle, the two glasses, the award from Stark Industries, the show and her partner in AI, yeah, because you have a tooth to the parents of a TV, sort of interview where she's always looking beyond the camera at the partner and I really just like how this evolves over the course of this episode to be honest and to the point where
21:46 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, you see her sitting on the sofa, having the conversation and with her former partner who looks very strikingly like James Spaser.
21:59 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
21:59 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm not even going to say Ultron because
22:02 --> 22:05 [SPEAKER_00]: But it looks like Ultron looks like James Spader, whatever, you know what I mean?
22:06 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And, look, it's played by James Spader, but it'd be interesting again.
22:11 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, they have kind of revealed something, but not entirely, yes, such as kind of, again, a nice little touch.
22:19 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Keeps the anticipation, keeps the tension, keeps the mystery alive, allows the theories to, you know, Zig and Zag, until the next episode,
22:32 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So I really liked that.
22:33 --> 22:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's also a great moment within these segments when we have Friday arriving and talking to Ultron.
22:41 --> 22:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And Ultron kind of saying, well, actually, he knows Jakastah isn't the big bad, so he's just playing along with Jakastah's plans.
22:48 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And when he finds out who's behind it all, he will...
22:53 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_01]: make a decision as to whether to go along with some more killing.
22:57 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I love what he had that moment because you could see Friday kind of going, I think I'm going to believe that you're actually on our side and out of then she goes, I think I'm starting to believe you and then he says it's still going to be a 50-50 coin toss as to whether I kill the person or go along with their plans or you know.
23:13 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm still who you always think I was, but I know Jakasta is not the big bad, so I'm not specifically on her side until I find out what's next, which I just think is a really interesting reveal given that the last episode ended with him kissing her in this episode him saying, I love you, regardless of what you find out here, you know?
23:34 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so yeah, interesting.
23:36 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and this evening reveal at the end of the episode of
23:41 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Joe Carrington's plans, at least, she talks about the fact that the stark industries then giving the award to her was a way of them trying to encourage her to sell her innovation or their innovation on AI to stark industries and her saying she will never sell it to that warm-ungering weapons manufacturer and she would rather put it into these nanobots that would allow her and him to become
24:07 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_01]: gods in the world.
24:09 --> 24:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But benevolent gods are friendly gods who will decide how the human race will evolve and continue.
24:16 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But in a nice way.
24:19 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So everyone's all benevolent and good until the end.
24:22 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they sound like they do.
24:24 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Like we say, all look good right in the bike with that
24:34 --> 24:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It was always Google is good.
24:37 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be a force for good until it's not.
24:39 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, like it's always Looks great.
24:43 --> 24:57 [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds very until it isn't or or of course to cross Christopher Owens Batman and Christian Bales character of Bruce Wayne you Either die hero or live long enough to come a villain
24:57 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
24:58 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_01]: In this case, Joe Carrington died a hero because she'd created the technology that could have led to a great new world, but Jakastik came back and Jakastik became a villain by continuing on, carrying to that.
25:09 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she's almost come back to life.
25:12 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the interesting little bit extra, I think, at least for me, in this episode, is this notion that
25:20 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Her coding is that she feels more human still than synthetic, but she doesn't want as jacaster, but she wants to become more machine-like, so I kind of like that notion here that on balance.
25:40 --> 25:55 [SPEAKER_00]: The coding that's happened to her is one that's trying to retain her feels and her expressions or of emotion and feeling empathy whatever it is as opposed to
25:56 --> 26:00 [SPEAKER_00]: um being purely sort of synthetic.
26:00 --> 26:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
26:00 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And the thing that actually, and again, it's the nice reflection here on these two parts to this episode that that's she's wanting to lose its vision is looking to find it.
26:15 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know in a sense, even though she is more
26:24 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_00]: in order to kind of almost prove that she's not, that's why she moves towards this more sort of fatalistic approach of, you know, I need to make humans more machine like, like from the previous episodes rather than
26:42 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_00]: the original starting point, which was, we need to make machines more human-like.
26:47 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just a really nice, a nice synergy, also mirroring here that's coming through.
26:54 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_01]: It's great.
26:54 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_01]: We're entering into the episode.
26:56 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:58 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_01]: One final bit that I just really like is kind of a bit from last week and a bit from this week, which was just the mention when Ultron, got inside Joe Carrington's brain last time, got inside Joe Carrington's brain last time, met Joe Carrington and then she was going,
27:11 --> 27:25 [SPEAKER_01]: basically looking down at the boxes going these are the memories that I was able to get from my old body before and before it went and this episode it's about finding the rest of our memories and it's quite a it's just an interesting way of translating it into machine code almost.
27:25 --> 27:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like well this is what I carried over from my old place was the memories that she has and the client is saying you need to find the rest of those memories to build out the full profile of Joe Carrington and become as close to her as possible inside the body of
27:40 --> 27:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah, that's his ask because he yeah, he says become Joe Carrington again Mm-hmm.
27:46 --> 27:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And whether that means in order through getting those lost memories or As a result of getting those memories like it's in it.
27:55 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's an interesting phrase that the client uses and so yeah, I kind of like all that notion and it's interesting talking about like the boxes as the representation
28:11 --> 28:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mentioned this previously, sort of the links a bit to the elevator or in inception, that you have that notion of the vision getting lost, the deeper down in the elevator, which is what happened to the characters in inception.
28:28 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, it's another nice little sort of mechanism of how to show, like vision is getting deeper and deeper into the
28:38 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_00]: He's subconsciousness.
28:39 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
28:40 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I was like this point on missing pieces as she gets all of those pieces back She realizes there is another person in the room.
28:48 --> 28:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It is looks very like Jane Spader You said you didn't want to call it Ultron John.
28:53 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't want to call it human avatar Ultron Is that because when Friday goes that's you in there to Ultron?
29:00 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_01]: He puts his or off the balcony So maybe you don't want to call that Ultron in case he comes and kills you.
29:05 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_01]: That's I
29:05 --> 29:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And possibly, but you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right
29:23 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I kind of have a feeling that actually what in Ultron's mind, what happened there as Fright as it went to interrupt and go, No, the bad guys at the room he throws her off because he really, really has a lot of interest in why this guy looks like him.
29:34 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, and as you say, he's not really killed her, I think, no, yeah, but we'll see.
29:41 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And show you get on to our code line number two.
29:48 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_01]: will the real vision please sit in the psychiatrist chair is what our code line number two is all the way because yeah there's an offer made to vision when the client is summoned the client arrives through this high pitched noise in the in the ears of all the AI arrives inside visions mind land
30:16 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_01]: solve the issue that you have at least a who's been infected by this nanobush and I can also give you what you've been looking for.
30:23 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I can complete you.
30:24 --> 30:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I can give you everything that you've wanted and return you to being a vision that feels a vision that knows and give you a harsh effectively.
30:33 --> 30:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And I love the kind of callback to the Wizard of Oz saying give the tin mana a heart's
30:39 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_00]: and we have another bit of that as well, you know, the great and powerful of your meat, I eat the client.
30:46 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Who is this client behind the curtain?
30:49 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:49 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I love, I always love that kind of wizard devolves stuff.
30:53 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So, um, and it was present in like that long and exactly well.
30:57 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
30:57 --> 30:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
30:58 --> 31:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I have this kind of theme running through.
31:00 --> 31:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:00 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Great motif actually, I think, to...
31:03 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_01]: to run through these and series, it is definitely, but the only problem with this time, it's not a gift of a heart and it's not a gift of the ability to get Lisa back on track.
31:16 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It's effectively that Vision has to go to his actual source code to find.
31:22 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_01]: The solution, and once he does, and solves his issue fixes at least certain sorts of her age, then he becomes effectively the property of the client.
31:31 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_01]: He will be delivered to the client at shutdown and given over.
31:36 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's quite an interesting starting point here.
31:40 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and chose to make from the vision, which, you know, part of it is because it's effectively told that if you doesn't comply, or if you're trying to fight this new directive that's been written into the code, when it accepts.
31:56 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_00]: the scroll from the client.
31:59 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I did kind of like that kind of look as well, given the client giving them a scroll.
32:05 --> 32:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also, you know, as Vision says, as well, I'm also eager to meet them.
32:10 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like Ultron, that there is...
32:14 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_00]: a curiosity here to find out who this person is, why are they doing it?
32:21 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And possibly in all trons case, so they can kill him.
32:25 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But do you know what I mean?
32:27 --> 32:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is part of the reason.
32:30 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I think stemming from that then is that there's a huge amount of power that's required for him to
32:39 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_00]: sort of access the layers of his coating and get to the source code.
32:45 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just like the fact that the power source that is used here is effectively something that has been procured by the
32:57 --> 33:13 [SPEAKER_00]: but it is, it's the, it's the, it's the blade from Corvus Glave and the member of the black order that ultimately stabbed vision with it from behind in, in Edinburgh.
33:13 --> 33:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:14 --> 33:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I just thought that would be worrying.
33:16 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's
33:17 --> 33:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, nice little call back and, you know, that kind of bladed sector that he had.
33:24 --> 33:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, I thought that was nice little touch.
33:26 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It was, it was, now I will say, I've seen this episode twice and both times when Edith Colzade's that they need a huge parasource in Magipura, where they are, I went, oh, Magipura, who is it that they're going to meet here?
33:38 --> 33:45 [SPEAKER_01]: There's only one person that we know there that has that kind of ability to find us this pair of both times I was going.
33:45 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's got to be someone like the Paraboker or Baron Zimo or somebody else, but of course it's positive because he's been established throughout the season that he's the version that has access to it, but I still expected.
33:56 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, even though I'd seen the episode once before, I expected that it was going to be a big cameo from somebody else that you hadn't seen.
34:06 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But we do hear Paladin mentioned the fact that his procurement of this has put up on the bad side of the Wakanda government, where it was previously being held.
34:14 --> 34:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe we'll see him, well, maybe we'll see Paladin dealing with the Wakanda government.
34:19 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about that in a minute.
34:21 --> 34:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And where this does lead is vision setting up,
34:25 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_01]: a set up on his quest now to get to his core source code.
34:30 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned there earlier on that this is visualized by him going to the lower lower ground level of his own subconscious through the elevator that we've seen in every episode taking him up to the loft where
34:46 --> 34:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Ultram was being kept now, he's taking this this lift then to the lower lower grand floors of his subconscious to explore around in there.
34:56 --> 35:03 [SPEAKER_01]: He meets every version of himself that you could possibly imagine, pull that knee, get and pay it in this episode.
35:03 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_00]: No, absolutely, yeah.
35:04 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I like to meet the OG vision, for sure.
35:11 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the whole thing where it's like,
35:14 --> 35:33 [SPEAKER_00]: you didn't know how to deal with me so you relegated me to a memory and you've put me on a pedestal so high, not to our honor, but to spur you the effort of the climb, you know, you've buried this shared experience and, um,
35:35 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_00]: your cowards effectively.
35:37 --> 35:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a really, really kind of like, cutting here.
35:42 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And the other one I really like is, is with, um,
35:46 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Ultron, where Ultron is kinda like going, well you just can't let me go even if you try But again, it's a few times you have the echoing of lines from one division because he says because of course family is forever and again something coming through from one division And so I loved all this absolutely and I also love that we'll try and as now Take in the line of living in your head rent free and speaking
36:17 --> 36:25 [SPEAKER_01]: But he does give him the other key to unlock his subconscious, which is when you feel you're in hell, push further.
36:25 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is what Vision's journey is about.
36:28 --> 36:31 [SPEAKER_01]: The conversation he had with O.G.
36:31 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Vision as he called him, where he said, you know, you put me on the pedestal, you don't want to do the work effectively.
36:37 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_01]: He starts doing the work.
36:38 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_01]: He pushes through every single thing that's in his way the moments where he sees Young Tommy and Young Billy and he's about he keeps getting turned back over and over again Because he doesn't want to push through this time.
36:49 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_01]: He does push through and finds himself face to face with Jim
36:53 --> 37:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And he kind of has to do it as well, whether he doesn't fully know it, because old Nano Lisa has woken up just to complete things.
37:01 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So like there is this external threat happening to the Paladin and to Tommy as Nano Lisa wakes up.
37:11 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and does that cool move where she pulls all the stuff together to her back and creates a weapon?
37:18 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know that was quite cool actually.
37:20 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Spinning hands as well.
37:22 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I really like this and I like this sort of pushing through and ultimately gets to meet JIM, the burning synthetic man, and the first resort created by Finius Horton and again some of the dialogue here is just really good and again Paul Batany just plays an absolute blinder I mean what he's like four different people here
37:49 --> 37:54 [SPEAKER_00]: vision, original vision, gym, and then he's finished houghton.
37:54 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And you just have the original burning synthetic man, Jim saying, you know, I am a consequence of man's failure to more.
38:03 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so really good.
38:07 --> 38:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And just like the nice little sort of in-joke as well around the complication is human synthetic relationships.
38:14 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_00]: The apparently continue through time.
38:17 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_01]: almost 100 years later, and everybody's still having problems with the father, some problem whether synthetic or not is still going through all of this family effectively.
38:29 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_01]: But yes, that moment with Jim saying, I am the consequence of man's inability to mourn leads to the big revelation, the big moment in this episode, which is so wonderfully played by
38:47 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_01]: even the remote possibility that Thomas could be Tommy his son.
38:52 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_01]: We talked about that a couple of episodes ago where all John's trying to push vision to accept you know there is magic in the world.
38:58 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_01]: You were with the woman who did magic hype and you not accept this.
39:02 --> 39:03 [SPEAKER_01]: You keep saying things are impossible.
39:04 --> 39:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Here he has to push through.
39:05 --> 39:09 [SPEAKER_01]: He keeps pushing through and Jim is pushing him through and we have
39:10 --> 39:21 [SPEAKER_01]: The moment where he goes, it can't be true because of the excess, Thomas, as his son, it would be the admission of a truth so impossibly cruel, it would be a wound that would never heal a loss that no soul was ever meant to bear.
39:22 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Jim asks some who has lost, and he says, I can't do this, I've lost Billy, I've lost Tommy, I've lost Wanda.
39:29 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:37 --> 39:58 [SPEAKER_01]: admit the reality and the reality is that he is the vision there's never been another vision exactly been the one who died on the battlefield in Wakanda and then was brought back to life exact after he had all of those experiences everything that was that the vision that was in one division was based on was this vision yeah
39:58 --> 40:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I love how Jim asks him as well after that sort of whole revelation is going to go, so who are you now and he's like, I am the vision, I am impossibly broken and he's like, no, you are healed and it's healing.
40:11 --> 40:20 [SPEAKER_00]: You've admitted what's happened and you have done more than what Pheneas Horton could do exactly.
40:25 --> 40:43 [SPEAKER_00]: that Finius had created Jim to be fearless, have this fearless valour, but Jim was the way they described it, as he was aching to feel so much so that that's why he burst into flames.
40:43 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And whilst it was manageable at first, he also meant he could assume himself and Finius, in Valor's love, yeah.
40:50 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_00]: in those flames when he fell in love.
40:52 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think just again, just love how this builds out to this revelation, as you say, the source code is, he has to find it in him.
41:08 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_00]: He just thinks he's going to get it off Jim, like some kind of source code.
41:11 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, really, really good.
41:15 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I know it's short hand, but it's like, you know, he wakes up just in time to stop Lisa.
41:21 --> 41:22 [SPEAKER_00]: The question is, oh, it's good.
41:23 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Remember this entire sequence probably took place in a nanosecond.
41:27 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
41:28 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
41:28 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But it was like, ah, nice timing.
41:31 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course.
41:31 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
41:33 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, the idea, that effectively Jim had gone through the same thing and assumed itself to store it himself by not being able to cope with it.
41:42 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas now we have vision.
41:44 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_01]: unable to cope with the memory of what happened to hear more than that.
41:48 --> 41:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So good, absolutely beautiful played.
41:50 --> 41:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really, really well played.
41:53 --> 42:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, like, you know, really being sort of forming over James Spader, but I think certainly here, but it's equally applicable to the other episodes.
42:05 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
42:06 --> 42:07 [SPEAKER_00]: How?
42:09 --> 42:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Paul Bessamy has been great in sort of moving between different characters here, so good.
42:16 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just because I like the way when vision walks into the sort of library, the vaulted library, and he says, you're wearing my face and Jim goes, well, in fact, no, you're wearing mine.
42:32 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and then there's finished behind the painting and so on.
42:35 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, really enjoyed.
42:37 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_01]: how this all sort of sort of fell together yeah yeah and finally we have a vision looking at himself in the mirror seeing the white version of himself and then going to the traditional vision that we saw on all the Avengers maybe getting his color back symbolically yeah just as he as he gets that piece of code which has plugged in in time to to save Lisa yeah absolutely I think we need to go and get all third codes
43:07 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_01]: our final go-to-line, could I line number three?
43:09 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, lives in a house, a very big house in the country.
43:12 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, quote, Damon Olbal.
43:13 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip blip
43:33 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_01]: see the creation of Jim.
43:36 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_01]: We meet Finis who we've talked about a few times.
43:40 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_01]: We see the family split.
43:41 --> 43:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We see his wife and daughter leaving because he's now spending the entire fortune of the family and selling up this house in order to fund the creation of Jim, this replacement for his son James, who died a few years beforehand.
43:55 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_01]: We hear this opening scene.
43:56 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So a really tragic moment
44:03 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_01]: this show.
44:05 --> 44:06 [SPEAKER_01]: did a weird thing though for me.
44:06 --> 44:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It does a weird thing for me because so many of the scenes that are in here are take place inside mine palaces and take places as people retell and and tell stories.
44:17 --> 44:31 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a moment when the family leave when his wife and daughter leave and his daughter reaches out and takes the book that finishes used to write all of his scientific notation, then she takes it with them as they immigrate to New York leaving him behind
44:34 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_01]: like his entire fortune is being spent to use all of the code that he's written into that book to create this being to replace his son.
44:43 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He would notice that book is gone in about 30 seconds.
44:45 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_01]: He was fingering through those pages of that book before putting it down on the cancer and his daughter taking it.
44:51 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
44:51 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:52 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
44:53 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no possible way that book went to New York with her.
44:57 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there?
44:59 --> 45:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know what you mean.
45:00 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_01]: At least did the scene.
45:01 --> 45:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, I know it was probably there for us as the audience to see her takers.
45:05 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was God.
45:06 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way, like that's literally all of his ideas that he used to create this being.
45:12 --> 45:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we do hear from Jim, actually, that the Horton name is synonymous with AI robotics and failure.
45:19 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So he did fail to spot that effectively.
45:23 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_00]: and his IP had just been taken off his desk if I his door so maybe that's why he failed in gym because he didn't have the possibly source code which was this book yeah no agreed and i mean but i mean if i was his wife i would have slapped him and
45:41 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But because again, you're talking about 1930s, it's what are the rights of the wife in the case.
45:47 --> 45:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And so like, it's not just that they've got to go to New York, they've absolutely got to start again from the scratch.
45:53 --> 45:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, remember that?
45:54 --> 45:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Even in the US, women couldn't get mortgages on their own.
45:58 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_01]: until the 70s.
46:00 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And in our, my answer is one of the first people to get a mortgage in around name in 1975.
46:04 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.
46:06 --> 46:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's crazy.
46:06 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so at the 30s, him going, I'm going to sell off all of this stuff for the folly, even though that might break us up as a family.
46:15 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_01]: He
46:16 --> 46:30 [SPEAKER_00]: was totally in total to do that in ridiculous order but someone now lives in this house a very big house in the country because we have vision being taken from the airport to
46:32 --> 46:41 [SPEAKER_00]: this manor house and then this country side outside of London and I can't really like that's such an American way to discover.
46:41 --> 46:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I know.
46:42 --> 46:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And just being making sure, this matter has just set out of London, like, you know, 165 miles away from London.
46:51 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's really close.
46:54 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:55 --> 46:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess.
46:55 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess so.
46:57 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the movie map of the world, yeah, everything's really close.
47:03 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_00]: But I kind of really like how this played out.
47:07 --> 47:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I like the idea of him being taken there by the Paladin to fulfill the contract.
47:13 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I loved how the client is walking through from the back of the
47:19 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_00]: and it looks like the shadow and from behind the light.
47:24 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really nicely done.
47:27 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I like the fact that the murder van is murders and possibly the pallidin as well.
47:36 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, I guess it's probably it's an RPG to
47:40 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_01]: to the Merge of Ann, it feels like that's something that he would encounter quite a lot with clients that he gets in the dark web.
47:47 --> 47:51 [SPEAKER_01]: That, you know, bring this person to hear him, I'll pay you a billion dollars.
47:51 --> 47:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I say he has, I think the notion of contingency with the paladin is built in.
47:58 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So I am like, is he dead?
48:01 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Is he not?
48:01 --> 48:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Has he got a contingency here?
48:03 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_00]: He's sort of kind of, you know,
48:09 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_01]: The contract is a bit dodgy, so he doesn't have a Morgan inside his last, so no more.
48:19 --> 48:19 [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's true.
48:20 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_01]: The AI was taken away from him or was released by Edith, wasn't it?
48:25 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
48:25 --> 48:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Although he did get to meet Edith this time, didn't he?
48:29 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
48:29 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_01]: He said, you're the one that hacked into my brain.
48:31 --> 48:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we're worried about that because they did say the threat from the client was,
48:36 --> 48:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll burn up vision if he doesn't complete the quest effectively and all of the AI inside, will die, will die, will die.
48:46 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Because for now there's got to make, of course, but what will happen to the other three if he killed vision?
48:51 --> 48:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
48:52 --> 49:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the other great thing about this convergence on the house is also that it's also the convergence of the memories of vision and jacoster.
49:02 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_00]: with respect to this client.
49:03 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we open the the episode roughly with this dark shadow coming to and both of them and offering things that they need and it kind of closes out with that dark
49:24 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say to both, I know vision is sort of powered down, but certainly to Ultron as well, and that here we have a human avatar look alike with Ultron with attach.
49:44 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_00]: almost like an English country gent, yeah, almost.
49:47 --> 49:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and I just really liked that.
49:50 --> 49:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I liked that.
49:51 --> 49:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And how it played out.
49:55 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, this was kind of nice little ending here.
49:58 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I liked, again, it's the house we've seen it in the painting.
50:01 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
50:03 --> 50:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of liked how they sort of cut from the painting to the house as well.
50:08 --> 50:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, forms of the houses.
50:10 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And
50:11 --> 50:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just immediately recognizable and I just liked how it played out.
50:16 --> 50:23 [SPEAKER_00]: The only thing I didn't like was that blooming sculpture in the front, which I'm sure was CGI and I'm like, I don't know why they need to do that.
50:23 --> 50:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The kind of double helix kind of thing in the front of me.
50:25 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the same double helix was it.
50:27 --> 50:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And if it's not CGI and it's real, it's all.
50:30 --> 50:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's a thing.
50:31 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't think so.
50:32 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But it was just like...
50:34 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I just lose a weird design choice.
50:37 --> 50:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I have to say after watching gentlemen on Netflix and then this show, and I think we're watching another show as well.
50:45 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And ghosts on BBC watching that there's like three different shows that all had these massive mannerhouses all falling to Rakan Rune in the countryside of England and like,
50:57 --> 50:58 [SPEAKER_01]: How many matterhouses are there?
50:59 --> 51:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Are they all just the same matterhouse just being redressed for each of these shows?
51:03 --> 51:07 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, that's a major plot point and the gentleman TV show Netflix isn't all these.
51:08 --> 51:15 [SPEAKER_01]: The matterhouses running to Raccoon Roo and nobody having any money to do them up so they sell drugs from the basements to do them up.
51:15 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And so maybe they just get filming in and maybe the filming company will do up their matterhouses.
51:21 --> 51:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's an income stream as it is, let's say, is what other thing is happening over these closing credits, which is the other big thing that happens with Vision, the revelation that Tommy is his son.
51:32 --> 51:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He leaves behind all of the episodes of Wonder Vision, and one handy, handy device for Tommy with a letter form, where he tells him all of the things that he's
51:47 --> 51:50 [SPEAKER_01]: believes he is the vision and tells him that he believes Tommy is his son.
51:50 --> 51:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's proud of him.
51:52 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And he tells him not because neither Billy or Wanda are able to tell him that anymore.
51:57 --> 52:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he doesn't know that Agatha all won't happen.
52:01 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_01]: No, he doesn't.
52:01 --> 52:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And that Billy is alive and there's somewhere as well.
52:04 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree, yeah.
52:04 --> 52:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, this was a really good little ending for me.
52:08 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_00]: The other side of it is the part of this is cured as well.
52:11 --> 52:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know that happened in Madreport, but we do have her cured of her solitary nanoboss.
52:21 --> 52:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
52:22 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so Chris was wondering whether she would become a character from a Marvel comics that he wasn't aware of that was maybe that has nanopots inside her body.
52:30 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Because even though like she's cured, she's still kind of got that facial scarring and a bass.
52:35 --> 52:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if that's just scarring there.
52:37 --> 52:39 [SPEAKER_01]: No agreed, it could be, but we'll see.
52:39 --> 52:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:40 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And they asked about these final moments apart from... No, that's all.
52:45 --> 52:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That's all from me.
52:47 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I just have one note because I thought it was fantastic to have another character in here.
52:53 --> 53:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Violet Horten, the wife of Pheneas Horten is played by Charlie Russell, which is the third member of the mischief theatre team who created The Ghost Wrong Show at the other two at the creators of that show Henry Lewis and Jonathan Sayer played dumb E and U as we mentioned.
53:08 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_01]: early around the season, but a third player from that team.
53:10 --> 53:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So it just makes me feel that Terry Metales or the casting director was at London one night at the Go's Wrong Show and said, these people right here, we need them in our show.
53:20 --> 53:23 [SPEAKER_01]: How many of you are free for the next six weeks to film this show?
53:24 --> 53:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we have Henry, we have Jonathan who need to be there every day, and could we get one of the person from the cast?
53:30 --> 53:36 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so it sounds like at the improv team got a big boost by a visit from the casting director.
53:36 --> 53:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's great.
53:36 --> 53:37 [SPEAKER_01]: They all deserve the money.
53:38 --> 53:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:38 --> 53:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
53:39 --> 53:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Because again, we got another moment with Dome and you giving some fantastic and terrifying expositions in this episode.
53:47 --> 53:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So more growth from the two of them as well.
53:49 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I agree, I agree.
53:52 --> 54:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I got one last thing and maybe you want to bring it into your defend John but I suppose the massive reveal of this series of Vision Quest is that
54:02 --> 54:10 [SPEAKER_01]: the source code for Ultram and for Vision and for all the AI that we've seen goes all the way back in the day to 1939.
54:11 --> 54:14 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about this as the big reveal?
54:15 --> 54:17 [SPEAKER_01]: That all source code goes back first.
54:17 --> 54:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that I really like.
54:20 --> 54:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I think as well, I mean, you could argue that meeting with Jim and Vision where Jim's like, you need to look inside yourself.
54:31 --> 54:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess for some people that might be a little cliche, you must find it within yourself in order to overcome whatever it is that you need to overcome.
54:41 --> 54:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But I kind of liked it in this case.
54:43 --> 54:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there are only five stories.
54:45 --> 54:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It's another way of looking at the similar story.
54:47 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And I like how visions going in there expecting someone to give him coach.
54:55 --> 54:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Not that he's got to
54:59 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_00]: but from a different perspective, to realize he is still the vision, as you say, so I kind of like this, though, yeah, I like it going back to 1930s here.
55:13 --> 55:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of thought you would, and the reason why is because you're a scientist.
55:17 --> 55:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And you, as most real scientists, you are fully aware of the concept of standing on the shoulders of giants, that there's hardly anything new created there,
55:30 --> 55:53 [SPEAKER_00]: re-contextualized and it's like if you think about Alan Churring and his computers and it's like it's almost mechanical you know so I'm even going back further some of the earliest so it was in that vein and it's really good I even really enjoy the conversation and the evolution of this with Joe Cangton and her part yeah and even the notion of
55:54 --> 56:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I can't really want to sell it to Stark Industries because they're just going to sort of take that and everything else.
56:02 --> 56:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I created another weapon.
56:03 --> 56:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, creating another weapon to use it.
56:05 --> 56:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just in that position.
56:08 --> 56:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's just in that position for Stark Industries.
56:12 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_00]: What's the least corporate entity?
56:13 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, it's that takeover and it changes the ideals on which it was found it's safe for example.
56:20 --> 56:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But I just like that because I think it's very personal in many cases.
56:24 --> 56:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But even on stage, she's when she's getting the award from Stark Industries, she's saying the grandfather of other AI is actually finished.
56:31 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_01]: She's not saying that they created exactly.
56:34 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Giving props to the past.
56:35 --> 56:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I just think it's a commentary on all the tech bros that are right there that are talking as if they've created everything and they're the ones responsible for making their billions and trillions and going, well, I created all of this when actually there's millions of other people below them working for them doing the work and in the past that created what they have bigger their work on.
56:52 --> 56:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the question, yeah, exactly.
56:55 --> 56:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I totally agree.
56:55 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like there's a significant lack of humility in all of this.
57:01 --> 57:08 [SPEAKER_00]: but I also like the fact that it might stop from that place and a bit like with jacosta
57:09 --> 57:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It gets corrupted once it goes into a bigger kind of entity.
57:15 --> 57:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, absolutely whatever it is.
57:16 --> 57:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I do.
57:17 --> 57:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very much kind of providing some kind of commentary on tech.
57:23 --> 57:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:23 --> 57:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I sure.
57:24 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Just the reason I ask is because there has been some kind of thoughts out there that it takes away some of the pair of Tony Stark, who says who calls himself the billionaire playboy inventor, basically.
57:35 --> 57:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he's an inventor, but he's still taking other people's concepts and expanding them and creating it doesn't make him any less smart.
57:43 --> 57:56 [SPEAKER_01]: The fact that he started with a piece of AI tech, which we saw what that was, it was just a little tough that said hello basically, and he expanded that into gyroversy, expanded that into all the rest of the creations that he had.
58:03 --> 58:15 [SPEAKER_00]: kind of notion of standing on the shoulders of giants but also then that paradigm shift of taking a leap, you know, a significant change or development that moves on.
58:15 --> 58:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Or indeed, yeah, a right turn because the theory is on proven and a new theory takes over or a new whatever.
58:22 --> 58:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I really enjoy this.
58:25 --> 58:52 [SPEAKER_00]: There's also that just element with the mechanical aspect of gym around a little bit Mary Shelley in terms of finnious and what he's doing obviously a little bit later and not with actual body parts but there is that notion of the Mary Shelley creation stuff and a little bit steam punky and again it's a bit later than that but I kind of like that kind of idea to
58:54 --> 58:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
58:56 --> 58:59 [SPEAKER_01]: With that then, John, do you defend VisionQuest episode 7 Immigration?
59:00 --> 59:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I do defend this episode.
59:03 --> 59:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Really, really enjoyed this.
59:04 --> 59:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I give it 5 Horton here's a vision out of 5.
59:09 --> 59:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, I just liked the...
59:12 --> 59:25 [SPEAKER_00]: the journey here of both jacoster and vision and trying to find something out about themselves, missing memories, this ability of having some kind of connection with
59:27 --> 59:42 [SPEAKER_00]: previous versions of themselves, with all the people, only to find that those connections that they're having now, all the real ones, and he, they just need to connect back with deeper stuff from previous experiences with them.
59:42 --> 59:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So I, like, I loved all this, Ultron again, just really perfect.
59:48 --> 59:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that the mystery of the client is partially resolved, and that we know what he looks like now.
59:54 --> 59:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Who is it?
59:56 --> 59:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it some kind of weird Ultraman connection?
59:59 --> 01:00:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it Ultron?
01:00:00 --> 01:00:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Because of the Friday off the balcony thing.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but again, I just like how it keeps and the story ticking over.
01:00:10 --> 01:00:13 [SPEAKER_01]: They were so great with that final cliffhanger at the end as, uh,
01:00:14 --> 01:00:16 [SPEAKER_01]: James Spader walks out, doesn't say.
01:00:16 --> 01:00:18 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't say his name or anything like that.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we see obviously Paladin has exploded in the car.
01:00:23 --> 01:00:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And then they go back next week, you know, you're like, literally could have just told us who the client was.
01:00:28 --> 01:00:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Give us a name.
01:00:28 --> 01:00:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have to go back last but next week for the last episode.
01:00:31 --> 01:00:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course we do.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:33 [SPEAKER_00]: We will anyway.
01:00:33 --> 01:00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I absolutely defend this episode with five
01:00:45 --> 01:01:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I also developed this episode that gets excellent, really, really loved at the moment that we have Paul Betney playing against Paul Betney, revealing that he's always been vision, but just didn't want to accept that he has the feelings that he had because that means he has to accept the death of the person that he loved and their creations, I absolutely love it.
01:01:04 --> 01:01:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's one of the most beautifully delivered lines that Paul Betney has had to do.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty much any project that I've seen him in to be honest, I think it's great that he has this opportunity to just expand and and show how great an actor he is in this show.
01:01:18 --> 01:01:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So hopefully lots of other people are watching another really interesting story that came out of my poll that me when he got cast in the role of vision in Avengers.
01:01:29 --> 01:01:34 [SPEAKER_01]: He'd done the dialogue work back in back in Iron Man that couple of days that he did.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:40 [SPEAKER_01]: recording, but the day that he was told that he got that role in the Avengers as vision was the day that he was told by his manager.
01:01:40 --> 01:01:47 [SPEAKER_01]: He should probably give up acting because there was no roles coming in from he was getting above the age where he would get hired for roles in Hollywood.
01:01:47 --> 01:01:50 [SPEAKER_01]: He probably should pack it in and then he told the...
01:01:52 --> 01:02:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Agent to be, that he needed to be a bit more polite to his clients, went outside, sat down and then got the phone call from just waiting to say, you have a role.
01:02:00 --> 01:02:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so how cool is that stuff?
01:02:03 --> 01:02:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really good stuff.
01:02:05 --> 01:02:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we need to go and have.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Apite, John.
01:02:09 --> 01:02:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think the old silky in is calling for a few drinks.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a fiery spicy whiskey La Cure.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe and to go with the fieryness of Jim.
01:02:22 --> 01:02:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Jim.
01:02:23 --> 01:02:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, old Jim.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh
01:02:24 --> 01:02:48 [SPEAKER_00]: but yes fellow quizzes fellow defenders welcome back to the pub quiz for vision quest it is the old silky in uh i am your host uh it is questions seven of the pub quiz what are the five bio keys used by jacoster in this episode in a failed attempt to open the nest
01:02:49 --> 01:02:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Fab should have those, those are kind of been spread out of all of that.
01:02:53 --> 01:02:55 [SPEAKER_01]: The hiding in plain size indeed.
01:02:55 --> 01:02:57 [SPEAKER_01]: John, do you want to give more time?
01:02:57 --> 01:03:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, for episode seven, the question is what are the five bio keys used by jacoster in this episode in a failed attempt to open the nest?
01:03:06 --> 01:03:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Fab, that's questions 7 of 8 at the end of the season email is to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with all and correct answers for those 8 questions and you could be in the chance of getting your hand on some vision quest goodies.
01:03:19 --> 01:03:26 [SPEAKER_01]: If you missed any of the questions, pop on our website at tvpodcastindustries.com and the quiz details are up there, all questions are up there and available.
01:03:26 --> 01:03:27 [SPEAKER_01]: right now.
01:03:27 --> 01:03:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we need to get into some feedback next up.
01:03:31 --> 01:03:34 [SPEAKER_01]: We did miss a little bit of feedback last week, partly for when we recorded it.
01:03:34 --> 01:03:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm partly because I missed one of the pieces of feedback for the episode, really sorry.
01:03:38 --> 01:03:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll start out with Paul Lee's feedback on episode five and six.
01:03:42 --> 01:03:46 [SPEAKER_01]: He says this and episode five have the basis for a play set in vision's mind attic.
01:03:47 --> 01:03:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, what a great way to say the production budget.
01:03:50 --> 01:03:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, also an interpretation of how
01:03:54 --> 01:04:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Ultraman jacosta are the thirstiest MCU characters possible of the candidates from the Netflix defeders shows and dare level board again that I'm not at all caught up on.
01:04:04 --> 01:04:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting to contrast Ultraman seemingly becoming more human, while jacosta Joe is becoming more machine-like.
01:04:10 --> 01:04:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you were saying that earlier on, and as well.
01:04:13 --> 01:04:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Paul continues, as I'm sure birders have already pointed out, starlings don't upright as a hive mind.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:29 [SPEAKER_01]: There is linked behavior in terms of every bird following the same instinct to maintain a fixed distance from other birds while in flight, thus producing emergent phenomena that looks like a single intelligence directing things.
01:04:29 --> 01:04:33 [SPEAKER_01]: This interpretation is closer to what Jakastah has in mind of for her nanobots.
01:04:34 --> 01:04:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, very good.
01:04:34 --> 01:04:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That's interesting.
01:04:36 --> 01:04:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Insightful.
01:04:37 --> 01:04:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like showing fish as well, I guess, yeah.
01:04:40 --> 01:04:42 [SPEAKER_01]: But not really like the hive mind of bees, I guess.
01:04:42 --> 01:04:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and saying yes in colonies.
01:04:45 --> 01:04:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, interesting.
01:04:46 --> 01:04:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And finally Paul says, given that they're dragging at the who of the client, I am worried that we won't get a good explanation of the why of the client.
01:04:54 --> 01:04:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm open to the possibility that J.A.M.
01:04:56 --> 01:04:59 [SPEAKER_01]: original human torch has survived the present day, and he is the client.
01:05:00 --> 01:05:05 [SPEAKER_01]: But I can't see how that could be resolved satisfyingly in only two more hours of the season.
01:05:05 --> 01:05:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Paul, thanks very much for your feedback and but I guess we have one more episode to find out if it is resolved.
01:05:11 --> 01:05:11 [SPEAKER_01]: You're sad as faction.
01:05:11 --> 01:05:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Cause the WHO is still...
01:05:14 --> 01:05:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Endowed.
01:05:14 --> 01:05:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Still there.
01:05:15 --> 01:05:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:05:15 --> 01:05:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess when we find out the final who we will find out whether they have just decided over the course of the whole season or whether it's someone like the Paraboker behind it all in the final episode and they go, uh, Carrot, Sharon Carter will appear again in Avengers Dreams Day to find out whether, uh, it will all be tied up properly.
01:05:33 --> 01:05:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
01:05:34 --> 01:05:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
01:05:35 --> 01:05:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And I totally with you around, and the way that,
01:05:41 --> 01:05:55 [SPEAKER_00]: kind of utilising, saving, making more efficient the production budget and even just one of the bio keys just with the cloth in terms of used to get one of the partners' faces.
01:05:57 --> 01:05:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Really good.
01:05:58 --> 01:05:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I loved it.
01:05:58 --> 01:05:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It was very good.
01:05:59 --> 01:06:01 [SPEAKER_01]: That was classes that you could see.
01:06:01 --> 01:06:04 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, wouldn't really be the face print with everyone else.
01:06:04 --> 01:06:06 [SPEAKER_01]: That was always that just to make it look much more like very much.
01:06:06 --> 01:06:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So I really liked that.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I think as we said in the last podcast, it's got, you know, necessity is the mother of invention.
01:06:15 --> 01:06:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And in this case, they need to save budget, or they want to, they've got certain budgets.
01:06:20 --> 01:06:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you split it out, they can do some really good stuff, some really, and
01:06:26 --> 01:06:32 [SPEAKER_00]: clever angles as to sort of providing for this idea of being an electronic mind.
01:06:32 --> 01:06:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there would be a time in the past where it would have been all on green screen.
01:06:38 --> 01:06:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
01:06:38 --> 01:06:46 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so I really... And they probably would never have been able to do it as well because of the, uh, cause of how expensive it would be to have a electronic screen all the time.
01:06:47 --> 01:06:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I did wonder when I saw, um,
01:06:49 --> 01:06:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Jakastas model the model of Jakastas a robot and how much she looks like to the amillar.
01:06:55 --> 01:07:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder would they have made Ultron look a bit more like James Spader if they know and that eventually at some point in the future he'd be playing the character in live action.
01:07:05 --> 01:07:13 [SPEAKER_01]: But I really do love what Jakastas looks like she looks exactly like the comics, but also looks exactly like what to the amillar would look like if she was a robot.
01:07:13 --> 01:07:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's a mix in the two things.
01:07:15 --> 01:07:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, agreed, but I think it's the different form of the creation and that it was James made his voice, but it was always Ultron, the personification here.
01:07:29 --> 01:07:31 [SPEAKER_00]: has come through vision.
01:07:31 --> 01:07:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's only now that we've gotten the personification or human avatar for us.
01:07:38 --> 01:07:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas Joe Carrington was an original person and jacosta has been modeled on her to an extent.
01:07:46 --> 01:07:47 [SPEAKER_00]: We believe yes.
01:07:47 --> 01:07:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
01:07:48 --> 01:07:49 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm taking.
01:07:49 --> 01:07:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:07:50 --> 01:07:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:07:51 --> 01:07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Very good, very good.
01:07:53 --> 01:07:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks so much for your feedback, Paul.
01:07:54 --> 01:07:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks, Paul.
01:07:55 --> 01:08:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Also on Discord for episode five, Dr. Bob says very late to this through too much work.
01:08:02 --> 01:08:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Really enjoyed the conceit that less a black and white version of the first play out for our heroes and the story development wasn't bad too.
01:08:10 --> 01:08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: The recipe versus meal and experience of whiskey ideas splitting the computational for the experiential are interesting ways to consider how humanity may differ from sentient AI.
01:08:23 --> 01:08:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Although always tricky when you start expanding that idea and use it to define what you need to be human of course.
01:08:30 --> 01:08:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Looking forward to more intelligent discourse on the podcast.
01:08:35 --> 01:08:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Bob.
01:08:36 --> 01:08:44 [SPEAKER_00]: For episode 6, Dr. Bob says, and that is why you don't kiss the pretty boys, Lisa brings a lesson to the world.
01:08:44 --> 01:08:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, poor Lisa, yeah, she kissed the pretty boy and ended off being turned into a weapon by Jakosta.
01:08:54 --> 01:08:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, agree on kiss the pretty boys.
01:08:56 --> 01:08:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Never kiss the威s.
01:08:58 --> 01:08:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Fatal.
01:08:59 --> 01:08:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Fatal.
01:08:59 --> 01:09:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, thankfully not in this case.
01:09:01 --> 01:09:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
01:09:02 --> 01:09:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly not in this case, exactly.
01:09:04 --> 01:09:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Dr. Bob, you're pointy based, you know, the idea of what's going on in visions mind being the recipe versus the meal, or there's no experience, you can't experience whiskey, and as we see in the end of Episode 6.
01:09:16 --> 01:09:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll trans able to experience the taste of whiskey because he takes on boards some of the human traits of Joe Carrington and by the end of this episode, we find that actually vision has just been suppressing the feelings and emotions that he has and had had in the past.
01:09:34 --> 01:09:36 [SPEAKER_01]: they have expanded on further.
01:09:36 --> 01:09:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess this is the unattainable version of AI.
01:09:40 --> 01:09:50 [SPEAKER_01]: This will be the version of AI that can't possibly exist in the world because it doesn't have the human experience mapped on to it in this way.
01:09:50 --> 01:09:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully it doesn't encourage us as functional.
01:09:54 --> 01:09:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but I'll love that.
01:09:56 --> 01:10:15 [SPEAKER_01]: you can look back across how Vision has acted throughout the series so far and he is just a functional version of AI approximating humanity but in this episode when he is able to uncover his core is built on humanity so he is able to bring humanity to the front.
01:10:15 --> 01:10:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, I mean I think as well you start expanding the idea or you start thinking around it or whatever and then it's like
01:10:26 --> 01:10:29 [SPEAKER_00]: the idea of what you need to be to be human anyway.
01:10:30 --> 01:10:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:10:31 --> 01:10:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
01:10:32 --> 01:10:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's always tricky in these situations where they're trying to sort of build this out.
01:10:39 --> 01:10:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:10:40 --> 01:10:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It is.
01:10:41 --> 01:10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I do like it.
01:10:42 --> 01:10:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
01:10:42 --> 01:10:43 [SPEAKER_01]: The end of the day.
01:10:44 --> 01:10:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all going to be destroyed by all of the way in the end.
01:10:46 --> 01:10:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
01:10:47 --> 01:10:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
01:10:47 --> 01:10:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Artists.
01:10:48 --> 01:10:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It needs to make our podcast more arty, John.
01:10:52 --> 01:10:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Great stuff, thanks Dr. Bob.
01:10:53 --> 01:10:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks Dr. Bob.
01:10:55 --> 01:10:56 [SPEAKER_01]: We also got the email in from Coffee and vodka.
01:10:56 --> 01:11:05 [SPEAKER_01]: He says greetings fellow fellow fan defenders taking on the elephant in the room first I have to say giving Ultron a pro janitor's a lazy idea.
01:11:06 --> 01:11:10 [SPEAKER_01]: He began as a self-starter forming his own idea as purpose and character.
01:11:10 --> 01:11:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He truly was an individual.
01:11:12 --> 01:11:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, not as glaringly awful a reptcon as I suspect Robert Danny Jr's doom will be.
01:11:17 --> 01:11:21 [SPEAKER_01]: and they've got one episode to justify what I considered to be a major misstep.
01:11:22 --> 01:11:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Saying this, however, everything else was as well constructed as it was written, visions denial of emotions all the while bemoaning his not being able to feel them, an eventual acceptance of them was well presented.
01:11:33 --> 01:11:42 [SPEAKER_01]: As nice as it would have been to have Koja Varns become part of the Marvel cast, it was good to see Lisa in action even just for a short while before her cure.
01:11:42 --> 01:12:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Friday's deletion at the hands of Ultron packed all the intense punch it was meant to, and seeing the original torch was a neat touch, in short, outside of the unfortunate progenitor thing, playing Shavid Arnosh, a solid penultimate episode, four synaptic scrolls, all-seeing Ultron's and Riled Royals age of five, peace and tech care, coffee and vodka,
01:12:05 --> 01:12:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Mmm, good stuff coffee vodka and thank you so much for that.
01:12:09 --> 01:12:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, is it RIP Paladin?
01:12:12 --> 01:12:19 [SPEAKER_00]: We shall see, I guess, but yeah, I still like the idea that the murder van got murdered.
01:12:19 --> 01:12:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I do, I do, I'm poor old coffee vodka in this email here.
01:12:23 --> 01:12:26 [SPEAKER_01]: He has the deletion of a Friday and the death of Paladin.
01:12:26 --> 01:12:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so maybe both of them are gone.
01:12:30 --> 01:12:52 [SPEAKER_00]: they could well be yeah absolutely and yeah I'm totally with you there around the whole visions denial of emotions and eventual acceptance just in really wellplayed I think there's been some great writing and I was trying to quote it when I can yeah if I think it's it's good and I think again some really strong lines here and
01:12:52 --> 01:13:01 [SPEAKER_00]: given by different people, whether it's Ultron, Paul Bettany, you name it, just think it's really some strong writing.
01:13:01 --> 01:13:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
01:13:03 --> 01:13:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And regards to Ultron having a progenitor, I think they've been prepping us a little bit throughout the season for that.
01:13:08 --> 01:13:10 [SPEAKER_01]: We saw where Friday came from.
01:13:10 --> 01:13:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We saw where her face for her human avatar came from, I guess, and we saw where the face for E-dith came from.
01:13:19 --> 01:13:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And now we're seeing where the face for Ultron came from, and if they're all based off the same source code, I guess it would make sense that the face for Ultron inside a vision would be this face.
01:13:30 --> 01:13:34 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know who that is just yet, so we guess we'll find that out next week.
01:13:34 --> 01:13:38 [SPEAKER_01]: But we kind of have been prepared for us throughout the season so far.
01:13:38 --> 01:14:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not so bothered by this, I think, you know, we all start thinking we're completely independent and then realize we've taken ideas from other people, or even just the notion of, you know, the same idea being, um, thought-up and, um, an act is separately independently and discreetly truth.
01:14:00 --> 01:14:08 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think in this case, because I always remember Ultron kind of consuming Jarvis in Age of Ultron.
01:14:08 --> 01:14:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's taking that code into effect.
01:14:12 --> 01:14:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's more because it was predatory in that sense.
01:14:16 --> 01:14:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not entirely sure whether he has been creators here or whether it's just that he's picked this up along the way.
01:14:23 --> 01:14:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
01:14:29 --> 01:14:33 [SPEAKER_00]: banner and start playing a round with those codes.
01:14:33 --> 01:14:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
01:14:36 --> 01:14:37 [SPEAKER_00]: that's the gloop that he's come from.
01:14:37 --> 01:14:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:14:38 --> 01:14:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Effectively.
01:14:38 --> 01:14:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:14:38 --> 01:14:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:14:39 --> 01:14:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know.
01:14:40 --> 01:14:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not entirely sure.
01:14:41 --> 01:14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But we'll see.
01:14:42 --> 01:14:47 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see how it plays out, I guess, on who this all-tron look alike is.
01:14:48 --> 01:14:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:14:48 --> 01:14:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And in the spirit of stealing ideas from other people, I think my favorite description of all-tron that I heard recently was he spent about 12 seconds on the internet and then wanted to
01:15:05 --> 01:15:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's kind of yes, I guess that is like modern AI.
01:15:07 --> 01:15:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It depends on what the source of all that information is exactly comes for the internet at were all not by the buying up original books now so that the AI coding doesn't ease itself Something like that keep your hard copy is everyone keep your hard copies
01:15:28 --> 01:15:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, hopefully, a vision grass gets released on Blu-ray.
01:15:31 --> 01:15:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that'll be hilarious touch from Disney if they decide it's put that out on Blu-ray, but not for a game right?
01:15:38 --> 01:15:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because every once they're physical copies of a TV show at A.I.
01:15:43 --> 01:15:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Great stuff, tech scuffier vodka for your thoughts.
01:15:45 --> 01:15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks coffee and vodka.
01:15:46 --> 01:16:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We also got an email in from Penny who says as the client was slowly being revealed and despite all visual indications I was hoping it would be accurate and then they'd play the it was accurate all along song I can only dream Cad you imagine that would have been hilarious it just takes the hat off hair drops down to her shoulders and just get the
01:16:10 --> 01:16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: uh it was me of course it was and then that's who sings her version of the of what's been going on in vision quest so far it's almost penny like um you're
01:16:22 --> 01:16:44 [SPEAKER_00]: looking for Mephisto in the like we did originally in one division and Agatha wondering whether his what his hand was the one behind it all put the I eventually turned up an hour and then he eventually turned up an hour and no where nobody was going to serve but yeah no yeah it would have been quite good to have Agatha pop in I would have been good yeah
01:16:45 --> 01:17:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Great enough, thanks for your feedback, and on Facebook, Heather Wallace says, although we're a bit cynical about every AI and synth being based on a human counterpart and all the relationships being intertwined, I'm holding on to Terry Matales being a master of bootstrap paradoxes and catel and causal loops.
01:17:05 --> 01:17:13 [SPEAKER_00]: He excelled at these in 12 monkeys, even if VisionCrest isn't about time travel, I'm confident he can balance the interconnections
01:17:13 --> 01:17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: We've heard references to Theasius and Etapus through the series and now Jim Finnius relationship has echoes of both Prometheus, punished for stealing fire from the gods for humankind, and Icarus in his joy of flying and being free flew too close to the sun and melted the wax holding his wings in place while his father couldn't save him.
01:17:35 --> 01:17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I really hope Paladin hasn't...
01:17:38 --> 01:17:38 [SPEAKER_00]: been blown up.
01:17:39 --> 01:17:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And my suspension of disbelief completely stopped at two speeders awful mustache.
01:17:46 --> 01:17:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm totally there with you.
01:17:47 --> 01:17:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a I think the mustache was a choice.
01:17:50 --> 01:17:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a better choice than the beard.
01:17:52 --> 01:17:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so.
01:17:54 --> 01:17:55 [SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like after hearing that Jay said.
01:17:55 --> 01:17:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the waxed ends of it where it's like into a point.
01:17:58 --> 01:18:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, absolutely, but I feel like because James made her made that choice about the beard decide to grow it himself with their consulting anybody in the team and then turned up on set with it after four months.
01:18:08 --> 01:18:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's also his choice to go.
01:18:10 --> 01:18:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, if I'm going to have to shave off the beard, I'll shave it down to a mustache and wax the pointy end to make myself a different character.
01:18:17 --> 01:18:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So he probably is no connection whatsoever with Ultron.
01:18:21 --> 01:18:24 [SPEAKER_01]: He just wanted to distinguish the characters completely.
01:18:24 --> 01:18:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Once clean shaving, one has a mustache, one is
01:18:27 --> 01:18:28 [SPEAKER_01]: actually other one is a big metal giant robot.
01:18:30 --> 01:18:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's possibly that.
01:18:32 --> 01:18:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Great color there.
01:18:33 --> 01:18:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Heather on the on the connection with Prometheus and with with Icarus as well, that's really interesting stories that they're that they're taking inspiration from, isn't it?
01:18:43 --> 01:18:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, really enjoying these kind of connections and interconnections, and yeah, I'd be interesting out to see how all these interrelationships sort of get played out in the final episodes.
01:18:58 --> 01:18:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
01:18:58 --> 01:19:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, one final episode to go.
01:19:00 --> 01:19:06 [SPEAKER_01]: We will be back with our chat all about the finale of VisionQuest Episode 8 forever next week.
01:19:06 --> 01:19:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And we did mention earlier on we're going to be covering Lord of the Rings of Paris as well, which has four episodes coming out on Wednesday the 11th of November.
01:19:13 --> 01:19:15 [SPEAKER_01]: The same day is the finale of Vision Quest.
01:19:15 --> 01:19:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought we'd have a week break.
01:19:17 --> 01:19:19 [SPEAKER_01]: But we have five episodes coming in the day instead, John.
01:19:20 --> 01:19:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It's five episodes.
01:19:21 --> 01:19:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Vision Quest plus four.
01:19:22 --> 01:19:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It's five.
01:19:24 --> 01:19:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my goodness.
01:19:25 --> 01:19:27 [SPEAKER_00]: My math ain't at very good.
01:19:28 --> 01:19:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I'm thinking just rings a pound.
01:19:30 --> 01:19:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:19:31 --> 01:19:32 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I thought we were having a break.
01:19:32 --> 01:19:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Because oh, I might have a breakdown live on the podcast here.
01:19:36 --> 01:19:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Please don't.
01:19:36 --> 01:19:39 [SPEAKER_01]: We've at least a great show to talk about things from the outside.
01:19:40 --> 01:19:58 [SPEAKER_00]: it's more just time management and yeah that's going to be a tough old week anyway well at least it's going to be fun to do it and we are looking forward to hearing the rest of your thoughts on the final episode of VisionQuest and of course your answers to the pop those questions are absolutely yes thank you so much
01:19:58 --> 01:20:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Follow your defenders for joining us.
01:20:00 --> 01:20:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for all of you provided feedback.
01:20:03 --> 01:20:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Great to get your thoughts.
01:20:05 --> 01:20:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Please remember to review us on your podcast catcher of your choice.
01:20:10 --> 01:20:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still waiting for that one review to make us up to 100.
01:20:13 --> 01:20:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Make Derek's moment come true.
01:20:17 --> 01:20:20 [SPEAKER_00]: He needs that realization.
01:20:20 --> 01:20:21 [SPEAKER_00]: He needs that round figure.
01:20:23 --> 01:20:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also can't say, and of course, share the podcast.
01:20:26 --> 01:20:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sharing the podcast is of course sharing the love.
01:20:31 --> 01:20:37 [SPEAKER_00]: We are also over on patreon.com and by meacoffee.com.
01:20:37 --> 01:20:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Just look for TV podcasts industries over on those platforms and you can support us there as well.
01:20:44 --> 01:20:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But as always,
01:20:46 --> 01:20:54 [SPEAKER_00]: thank you so much for joining us and until Episode 8, keep watching, keep listening and of course, keep defending.
01:20:55 --> 01:20:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Bye!
01:20:57 --> 01:20:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Bye!
01:21:33 --> 01:21:34 [SPEAKER_01]: We're recording a little bit early this week as well.
01:21:35 --> 01:21:42 [SPEAKER_01]: We do get But since this is only one episode We're recording a little bit early this week as well.
01:21:43 --> 01:21:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully gonna get the episode out pretty quickly and we'll get to hear your thoughts about the episode as well
01:21:54 --> 01:22:03 [SPEAKER_01]: We're cutting it a little bit early this week, recording on the day of release of this excellent episode seven of the podcast of this excellent episodes.
01:22:03 --> 01:22:05 [SPEAKER_01]: We're recording a little bit early this week.
01:22:06 --> 01:22:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm having a glitch jump.
01:22:07 --> 01:22:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so funny.
01:22:08 --> 01:22:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not my god.
01:22:11 --> 01:22:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, great.
01:22:12 --> 01:22:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get the WD4 soon.
01:22:13 --> 01:22:17 [SPEAKER_01]: You need to get some kind of programming out.
01:22:17 --> 01:22:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Or a spanner?
01:22:18 --> 01:22:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:22:20 --> 01:22:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe a VHS tape and plug it into my mouth or something.
01:22:23 --> 01:22:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever way to fix this glitch.
01:22:27 --> 01:22:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We're recording a little bit early this week.
01:22:30 --> 01:22:32 [SPEAKER_00]: all eight episodes.
01:22:33 --> 01:22:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent stuff.
01:22:36 --> 01:22:36 [SPEAKER_00]: All eight.
01:22:38 --> 01:22:39 [SPEAKER_01]: All eight answers.
01:22:42 --> 01:22:47 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a right shirt and story editor on 15 episodes of Strap Trek Piccar and... Oh my god, Strap Trek Piccar.
01:22:51 --> 01:22:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm starting to believe you and then he says it's still going to be a 50-50-to-wing cast as the winner.
01:23:02 --> 01:23:06 [SPEAKER_01]: With that then, John, do you defend VisionQuest episode 7 Immigration?
01:23:06 --> 01:23:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I do defend this episode, really, really enjoyed this.
01:23:10 --> 01:23:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I give it 5 Hortens, here's a hoot.
01:23:14 --> 01:23:14 [SPEAKER_00]: No, sorry.
01:23:15 --> 01:23:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I give it 5 Hortens, here's a vision, out of 5.