[00:00:00] This is the Dreadful Podcast from TV Podcast Industries and we're watching Penny Dreadful,
[00:00:04] City of Angels Episode 7, Maria and Beast.
[00:00:30] As I draw breath from my lungs, I will claw through my heart.
[00:00:39] I will climb hills and I will fudge you to the end of days.
[00:00:47] In the name of my children, home God of Ned together in my womb, I burn as you from this place.
[00:01:30] I love Penny Faithful, this is TV Podcast Industries. We're talking about Penny Dreadful, City of Angels,
[00:01:33] Episode 7, Maria and the Beast. Does anybody want to sing Beauty and the Beast?
[00:01:38] With that one.
[00:01:39] Well, I was thinking the Beast is 6666 actually from Hannibal.
[00:01:42] That's cooler and they do have the ACD son.
[00:01:46] They think the Beast is 6666 as well.
[00:01:49] And to be honest, the Beast is Frank who would kill a cute innocent fluffy hamster.
[00:01:56] Absolutely, I just have Maria and the Beast in there.
[00:02:00] But ask me in the German accent.
[00:02:03] Yeah, Maria and the Beast.
[00:02:06] Excellent, let's cut Chris off there and say I'm Derek.
[00:02:10] Hello to your host.
[00:02:11] Hello there, fellow Dreadfuls and fellow Penny Faithful.
[00:02:15] I am one of your other hosts, John.
[00:02:17] And I've already been mentioned as being Chris but I like to be cut off so it's great.
[00:02:22] Just only when I do my terrible German accent.
[00:02:25] We will try to cut you off every time you do that Chris, I promise.
[00:02:28] Okay, good to know.
[00:02:30] Well, I'm Penny Faithful.
[00:02:32] We are a little bit tired today from a very long podcast that we did yesterday.
[00:02:38] We have released our Patreon exclusive podcast on Captain America, The Winter Soldier
[00:02:42] which we have been promising for a few weeks.
[00:02:45] But we did get around to recording yesterday.
[00:02:47] Great discussion really enjoyed that guys.
[00:02:49] It was really fun to talk about some Marvel stuff because we've been going very serious with things like Watchman
[00:02:54] and even The Witcher which was quite in depth when we talked about that
[00:02:58] and then going into Penny Faithful, City of Angels all quiet.
[00:03:01] And all three seasons of Penny Faithful, all quite deep stuff that we've been doing.
[00:03:04] So getting back to a good comic book action movie was great fun to talk about.
[00:03:08] I forgot how much I loved it.
[00:03:10] I really did.
[00:03:11] Yeah.
[00:03:12] It's good to be back in the MCU even though we're not.
[00:03:16] I actually am disappointed that we aren't going back as soon as we are with Black Widow.
[00:03:23] I'm actually now more excited to go back to the cinema in August, September.
[00:03:30] Maybe July.
[00:03:32] I think Black Widow has pushed back to November.
[00:03:34] They moved all the Marvel movies out to the next dates that were on the show.
[00:03:39] So it's November 3rd.
[00:03:40] I though you just made going back to the cinema.
[00:03:42] Yes, hopefully going back to the cinema in July.
[00:03:44] That would be very cool.
[00:03:45] But yeah, just a quick return to the MCU for our fellow watchers over on Patreon.
[00:03:50] You can get access to that podcast if you go over to patreon.com slash TV podcast industries
[00:03:55] and contribute any amount in the course of talk about some comic bookie stuff.
[00:03:58] Yeah, it was good to get back into the old comics and the Marvel universe.
[00:04:05] And the movie really holds up.
[00:04:08] So yeah, it's a good movie.
[00:04:12] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:04:13] And look, any amount you can give in at any time is always fantastic.
[00:04:17] It helps keep the mics on, the lights on.
[00:04:20] And it's just a lovely way for us to give back to you as well.
[00:04:24] So jump on, have a listen.
[00:04:26] And of course, if you can't do that, just share our podcast.
[00:04:29] But sharing a podcast is sharing the love.
[00:04:32] But remember Chris as well, we have an army of hamsters on their wheels.
[00:04:36] That's what keeps the lights on.
[00:04:39] So Frank's not going anywhere, even along with our cat.
[00:04:45] Absolutely, but it does cost a lot to feed them that army of hamsters running our podcast.
[00:04:50] With a cute little cheeks all pouched out with nuts and seeds.
[00:04:55] But of course you can support us however you want to.
[00:04:59] And whether that's in seeds and nuts, that's fine as well.
[00:05:02] And salted preferably, but for sure.
[00:05:06] Any way you want to, you can leave a review and rate as Chris says.
[00:05:10] And speaking of reviews, we have an iTunes review for TV podcast industries.
[00:05:17] Really nice to get it through from gleaming circuit over there on the US Apple podcasts.
[00:05:25] Gleaming circuit says great show covering great shows, which is lovely to hear.
[00:05:31] Because yeah, we certainly do select our shows.
[00:05:34] So I'm glad someone is in tune and in sync with our choices.
[00:05:39] I'm thinking of stealing that as our actual log line for TV podcast.
[00:05:43] That's pretty good.
[00:05:44] That is a great one actually.
[00:05:46] And yet his five star review says this is a fantastic listen.
[00:05:50] You get your breakdown of the episode with thoughtful insights.
[00:05:53] A little humor when appropriate serious group up discussion where it fits with the fans enthusiasm.
[00:05:59] If you live in the US, it's great to get the perspective from this great team in Ireland.
[00:06:04] They're critical without being mean and stay focused on the content of the shows they cover.
[00:06:10] Refreshing and highly recommended them.
[00:06:13] That's really nice gleaming circuit.
[00:06:16] Thanks so much.
[00:06:17] I mean, it's just nice to get the feedback to know that you know, we hit the marks and what we're doing is is being taken up.
[00:06:27] I suppose in the way it's intended.
[00:06:29] I think this really does reflect that.
[00:06:31] So yeah, thanks so much gleaming circuits.
[00:06:34] Really nice to hear from you, Liam.
[00:06:35] So thank you so much for that.
[00:06:36] That's always good to get a review of that quality as well.
[00:06:39] It's a caliber over on the over watching.
[00:06:41] So thank you so much.
[00:06:43] Yes, thank you so much.
[00:06:44] Five stars puts five stars on my shoulders and my heart.
[00:06:48] You're a five star general.
[00:06:50] Yes, yes.
[00:06:51] That is oh my god.
[00:06:53] Yes, that makes no sense in my head where I was about to go.
[00:06:57] But does not matter.
[00:06:58] I will live our listeners.
[00:07:00] Any of our long time listeners will know what I was about to go for.
[00:07:03] So yeah.
[00:07:04] Chris, I've known you 20 years.
[00:07:06] I have no idea where you were going or 50.
[00:07:08] But then you don't know me well enough.
[00:07:10] That's true.
[00:07:11] That's true.
[00:07:12] Let's get into where it has got to be.
[00:07:13] Petty's Redful.
[00:07:14] City of Agile's episode seven at Maria and the Beast.
[00:07:16] The episode was directed by Sherry folks and UK director worked on many shows over the years.
[00:07:20] In the UK worked on called Midwife, which is from the same production company,
[00:07:24] weirdly as as Penny dreadful and also worked on Doctor Who.
[00:07:27] More recently Sherry worked on 12 monkeys TV series and American horror story season eight.
[00:07:33] We've kind of mentioned a few times that Penny dreadful city of angels does have a little bit of a American horror story.
[00:07:38] You kind of vibe to it at times where it feels like we're in this new world,
[00:07:42] which is just slightly twisted with the supernatural.
[00:07:44] So I guess Sherry's brought on some of that knowledge from from American horror story,
[00:07:49] particularly in some scenes in this episode.
[00:07:52] Yeah, I've never been a big AHS fan.
[00:07:56] My wife is and she loves it.
[00:07:59] And I think she even fell off after a while.
[00:08:03] I don't know why I love horror.
[00:08:06] I love horror.
[00:08:07] It's just it never fully cleared to me.
[00:08:09] 12 monkeys was a great premise at a great beginning.
[00:08:15] I just remember finding it hard to it didn't fully stick the end of his landing.
[00:08:22] I think it's because it got cancelled ahead before its time.
[00:08:26] I think they had greater plans on where they were going to go.
[00:08:30] I think what I absolutely love about American horror story specifically is that idea that it isn't until
[00:08:34] anthology shows, so for season isn't hitting with you after a couple of episodes.
[00:08:37] It's a bit three or four episodes per season.
[00:08:39] It's not hitting with your leave us and move on to the next season.
[00:08:42] It doesn't really matter whether you've watched them all.
[00:08:45] I think we've watched about five of the overall show five full seasons,
[00:08:49] but I hope they'll think we watched them back to back.
[00:08:52] I don't think we watch season one through five.
[00:08:54] I think we've picked which ones we like.
[00:08:56] Yeah, no it is great.
[00:08:57] Unfortunately it is a clip by another one of the creator's great horror series,
[00:09:06] which is Screen Queen's season one.
[00:09:10] Season one.
[00:09:11] And then American horror overtakes it.
[00:09:15] Yeah, overtakes season two definitely.
[00:09:17] The American horror is really good and scary as hell.
[00:09:21] Definitely, yeah, there's some great stuff in there for horror fans.
[00:09:24] The episode was written by Colin S. Little.
[00:09:26] I've done a few short films but there's this first major writing credit.
[00:09:29] He's on the writing team for this show.
[00:09:31] I reached out to him over on Facebook and asked him about his experience working with John Logan.
[00:09:34] As we know, John Logan roaches most of the first three seasons of Penny Dreadful.
[00:09:39] And he's wanted to know what it's like working in the writers room with him because so rarely
[00:09:43] someone else comes out with a writing credit for a full episode and having Colin Little get
[00:09:48] this as one of his first credits just thought it would be interesting.
[00:09:51] He responded to me saying he's incredible, extremely generous and talented,
[00:09:54] creates an amazing working atmosphere for everyone around him from the writers room all the way
[00:09:59] through to production, which is just a lovely way to talk about John Logan I suppose
[00:10:03] because he does seem so heavily involved in the production of the show.
[00:10:06] So great to hear it from someone that worked on the show with him.
[00:10:08] Yeah, that's really good as well because when you know you have this singular vision
[00:10:13] and you've got to bring people on board to that vision.
[00:10:20] And so like that just really sounds just consistent with how he would be
[00:10:27] and from what we saw from some of the Blu-ray extras for season one to three of Penny Dreadful
[00:10:33] as well. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:10:35] I'd be so interested and Colin I hope you listened to this and you might feel the chance
[00:10:42] to write into us a feedback at tvpodcastinshew.com.
[00:10:45] I'd love to know where the idea of the degenerate came from that story that mentioned
[00:10:49] and we'll get into it later.
[00:10:50] I'd love to know how that came about and there was any of it,
[00:10:56] was it written word for word, was any of it impromptu based on Nathan Lane.
[00:11:01] I'm just so curious because it's such a powerful scene.
[00:11:04] So I'd be very curious Colin but wasn't that great work?
[00:11:08] Yeah, did a really good job.
[00:11:09] John do you want to tell us what they gave us with the synopsis for this episode?
[00:11:13] Sure.
[00:11:14] Molly visits Tiago at his apartment as he wrestles with guilt over Diego's confession.
[00:11:19] Dossian Lewis confront Brian König for lying about his dual allegiances.
[00:11:24] Elsa and Frank move in with the crafts igniting fear in Tom and Maria
[00:11:30] and of course, Friar took Alex Malone and Councilman Tansen deliberates about how to defeat Councilwoman Beck.
[00:11:37] The Josefina's newfound faith puts her at odds with her family and in particular Mateo.
[00:11:43] Lewis and Lys are reluctant Tiago to join his covert operations against the Nazis
[00:11:48] and Maria summons Santa and Water but an uninvited guest arrives at the same time.
[00:11:55] Yes, the synopsis from showtime there for the episode lots of stuff.
[00:11:58] In there kind of hidden and didn't want to reveal exactly what was going on within the episode.
[00:12:02] So yeah, as we normally see with synopsis for the show but yeah, let's go on this episode.
[00:12:07] I think it's a really good setting episode for the final run-h.
[00:12:12] There's only three more episodes to go after this week's episode.
[00:12:14] So I think they're set up all of our players in their places in this episode.
[00:12:19] Bar one.
[00:12:20] Bar one.
[00:12:22] Yes.
[00:12:23] The one that we still can't figure out what we'll get to.
[00:12:27] Yeah, no, I completely agree with you like this really is setting the final chess pieces
[00:12:33] using the chess analogy that's given by Maria a few times.
[00:12:38] But yeah, no, this sets all the players on the board.
[00:12:43] It's just craft.
[00:12:44] I still can't figure this one out.
[00:12:46] And poor firetuck but let's get into it.
[00:12:48] Absolutely, absolutely.
[00:12:49] I'm going to kick this week off with my big moments from the episode.
[00:12:53] It's more of a theme for the show as we get into these final episodes of the show.
[00:12:59] One of the things that's really standing out to me now is how Magda is manipulating everybody.
[00:13:02] And I was wondering whether this has some comparison even to how Santa Morris'
[00:13:08] Paris protects people from the evils of the world.
[00:13:10] I'm wondering whether Magda's manipulations are kind of the reverse of that.
[00:13:14] She's the one that causes problems in the world and Santa Maria's the one that can take them away
[00:13:18] if you pray to her kind of thing.
[00:13:20] Considering, you know, they're supposed to be sisters.
[00:13:22] They were supposed to be very joined together in the past as we hear at the end of the episode.
[00:13:27] So looking at all of the versions of Magda and all the people that she's manipulating through the show,
[00:13:32] the way I'm seeing it so far as we have with Rio and Mateo
[00:13:36] that she seems to be manipulating Mateo with pride, pride in himself
[00:13:41] and pride in his race and pride in his belief that they shouldn't be downshotted
[00:13:45] in the city of LA.
[00:13:48] It seems to be working with his pride on that, with Tenzend and her version as Alex
[00:13:54] she seems to be working on Tenzend with the promise of power that he will be the one to lead the country
[00:13:59] she even says at one point in this episode that she's manipulating using the idea
[00:14:04] that he will get greater and greater power if he just listens to what her direction says.
[00:14:09] And that's what it feels like.
[00:14:11] Absolutely. To the utter shock of Councilwoman Beck,
[00:14:15] I thought that was just really nicely done.
[00:14:19] Yeah. I'm liking Councilwoman Beck a lot.
[00:14:22] I think I would be a new dealer in this time period.
[00:14:26] Beyond her side definitely.
[00:14:28] There's a...
[00:14:29] It's not very well veiled that this is talking about a certain leader that's sitting in the White House at the moment.
[00:14:35] I think we have talked about it many times.
[00:14:37] That is John Logan's intention with the entire show that it's reflecting or downright calling out what's been happening
[00:14:43] over the last few years, particularly in American politics.
[00:14:46] So this storyline of this atrocious, horrible man that is Tenzend basically bulldozing everybody around him
[00:14:53] to get his way to Mara Seese to Senator and then all the way up to the White House
[00:14:58] with the help of Alex does seem to be a reflection of another famous politician beginning with the same letter.
[00:15:06] Yeah.
[00:15:07] Yeah, no. The writing's on the wall and it's smacking in your face.
[00:15:12] Yeah.
[00:15:13] Yeah. Let you continue on because there's a few more.
[00:15:17] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:15:18] I feel that with Elsa, the persona of Elsa that we have...
[00:15:22] We see a lot of in this episode.
[00:15:24] I feel she's using lust to manipulate Dr. Kraft.
[00:15:27] Chris, you were wondering how Dr. Kraft fits into the future of her plan.
[00:15:32] I think we don't know that just yet, but we get some indications here where she's kind of saying to him
[00:15:37] about basically getting rid of Maria because she's manipulating the kids and teaching the kids about another culture
[00:15:44] that isn't German and isn't American. So why is she there?
[00:15:47] So it feels like she's saying to him in the future you will be a great leader of the Nazi race effectively.
[00:15:53] And this may be something that plays out in season one.
[00:15:55] It may also be something that plays out if there is a season two or a season three
[00:15:58] where we see the continual manipulation of Dr. Kraft into a leader of the Nazis effectively
[00:16:05] just happened to be based in the US.
[00:16:08] So that's what I'm kind of seeing just from that conversation that they have.
[00:16:11] Yeah.
[00:16:12] Maybe that's what she's doing.
[00:16:13] It's interesting because she says you will be a strong, important man and the world will watch
[00:16:19] which is really kind of fairly impressive for effectively a general practitioner.
[00:16:25] Dr.
[00:16:26] So there's something then again, I suppose what's in the shadows still with Dr. Kraft is
[00:16:32] what happened to him or to his family in Essen.
[00:16:37] And obviously as well we've only just touched slightly on the German American bond that he is involved with.
[00:16:46] But whether it's something to do with leading that as a political party you just don't know.
[00:16:51] But I thought it was interesting that it came at the same time where you have her
[00:16:56] Goss with Brian Kernig and with Kurt watching sort of on, I suppose with his hands right on his on his
[00:17:07] Luga.
[00:17:08] His silence Luga ready to take out Paul Brian if the need arises that you have Goss talking about
[00:17:15] these plans for when Hitler arrives.
[00:17:20] His new eagles nest he calls it you know in amongst the new world where the fjure can contemplate
[00:17:27] in his new eagles nest in the new world surrounded by trees.
[00:17:32] So I you're just kind of wondering, okay, yeah, this feels like it potentially will play out over
[00:17:39] a longer period than maybe just season one if there is to be a season two.
[00:17:46] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:17:47] But it's I thought that was interesting you have Goss saying this is the plans we're making for effectively
[00:17:54] Germany coming into North America occupying it I suppose.
[00:18:01] You know very much in the kind of feel of the man in the high castle and then you have this idea
[00:18:08] that maybe Elsa is prepping this man to be this important figure that the world will watch.
[00:18:16] Yeah, and potentially leading that onslaught in LA when when the fjure arrives I suppose in the future
[00:18:23] to set up his his part of the Nazi regime in LA.
[00:18:28] Yeah, yeah, or the only other thing I can think of is he is a doctor and the Germans were hugely
[00:18:36] obsessed with race and genetics and this idea that maybe it's around something along those lines
[00:18:49] in terms of maintaining racial purity and hence why then she's trying to poison him
[00:18:56] towards someone who actually he seems to have a lot of respect for because of how long she's been in his employ
[00:19:03] and her relationship with Tom and Trevor that she's trying to poison him against Maria
[00:19:08] with that whole spiel in the bedroom.
[00:19:12] Yeah, and so I don't know these are just theories really in that sense because I do I think it seems like
[00:19:19] this is almost a long gestation kind of period for what she needs from from Doctor Kraft.
[00:19:27] But it might move massively fast as well as I so she seems to be using this lust of craft to manipulate
[00:19:32] him. She's what maybe a week ago two weeks ago she's already gotten the wife at the door
[00:19:37] or she's moved in, she's got her son moved in, she's rearranged all the Belgians in the house,
[00:19:42] got Maria moved in by the garage and is already talking about getting Maria potentially out
[00:19:47] of his employ and off the property and it's probably less than a couple of weeks since they met first
[00:19:52] going by the timeline of the show.
[00:19:55] So yeah, this could all happen really fast you know this she might be just in absolutely the right place
[00:20:00] for Magda and this manipulation to just put him over the edge really quickly into this future plan
[00:20:06] that she has for him.
[00:20:08] But in this episode we're really seeing I think we mentioned a little bit about Frank this version
[00:20:13] of Magda that she reabsorbed early in the first time we saw him reabsorbed back into the body
[00:20:20] what we're seeing in this episode now is that he's got he's a full persona of Magda now
[00:20:25] alive living 12 times having conversations with Tommy in one room while she's having conversations
[00:20:31] with Dr. Kraft in another room so he's completely independent as I magda now I think we can say right?
[00:20:38] If you were putting up a poster of who naturally door plays in the show it would be the four of them and maybe Frank as well
[00:20:45] so that's the way I'm saying it but with Frank it seems like his manipulation is through fear
[00:20:50] with Tommy you know some people could question why he's doing it
[00:20:54] but if he keeps Tommy quiet then it keeps the one that's questioning Dr. Kraft about things
[00:20:59] that Elsa might be doing he's gonna keep Tommy quiet and out of the way while
[00:21:04] Elsa does the manipulations on Dr. Kraft so I think that's why he's using fear to manipulate Tommy
[00:21:09] I thought it was interesting or the other it says everything about the actor that plays his older brother
[00:21:13] plays Tommy's older brother and Trevor yeah I don't know why but it felt weird that the two of them are sitting at the table
[00:21:20] Dr. Kraft breaks the news to them and Maria comes in and helps out and the only one of the two kids
[00:21:25] the talks is Tommy Tommy's questioning everything Tommy looks scared Tommy just want his mommy to go away
[00:21:29] kind of thing and Trevor said he there wait to get back to his breakfast it seems like he gets no lines
[00:21:33] to say to his dad a bit as mom leaving like it's just it's just slightly older and he's just accepted
[00:21:38] or he'd like to have a little bit of insight to that but it seems like they're looking at Tommy as the one that's going to question
[00:21:44] and the one that's gonna stand up for his family and maybe Frank can rule them with fear
[00:21:50] and take him out of the equation maybe that's the way that he's doing I know you're gonna talk about it
[00:21:53] a bit more about that relationship John but there's just one last manipulation of Magda in this episode
[00:21:58] that really stands out which is Magda meeting Maria was a big scene at the end of the episode
[00:22:04] but she uses family to manipulate Maria Maria goes to ask the question of Santa
[00:22:10] Mora why is my family being attacked and it seems like Magda's using the idea of family back on her saying I can save them
[00:22:16] if you just give up your belief in Santa Mora Santa Mora said and worship me if you come and join my side effectively
[00:22:23] so this is part of the reason why I wanted to talk about this in here was just wondering whether it does compare to Santa Mora's
[00:22:29] or is this Paris you pray Santa Mora so you can get help with prosperity you can get help with clearing negative influences
[00:22:36] you can get help with legal matters get help with love and you can get help with protection from dark magic
[00:22:42] those are the main powers that she has when you pray to her and what we see on the other side here is Magda
[00:22:47] is manipulating everybody using similar types of powers similar I'm thinking because I did name them myself
[00:22:54] remember from my notes there might be just other names that match a bit closer to it
[00:22:59] but it's like she prays on the you know this idea of the seven deadly sins you know this idea of pride and greed
[00:23:09] and power you know that could be Townsend you know it's his greed for
[00:23:15] yeah and the the all then all this type of things or it's definitely that kind of reflection back from what Santa Mora does
[00:23:27] to the manipulations that Magda is doing but I think this thing with Magda Maria
[00:23:34] and with Santa Mora's her like Santa Mora's is still a bit of a mystery to me
[00:23:39] and like it does she feels very passive I was expecting some kind of interjection
[00:23:48] maybe if they weren't interrupted by Magda she would have done but there was that nice moment between the two sisters anyway
[00:23:55] and were do you remember when you effectively forsake me as your sister
[00:24:03] and she goes I've lived with my decision and she goes no but do you remember and you just get the tear
[00:24:10] and that kind of drives her away so I kind of just because it's an area of I suppose
[00:24:20] and the supernatural spiritual world that I don't know a lot about it would be really interesting to get some kind of explanation as to what that may be
[00:24:32] I know Magda's not necessarily a real life but or just maybe where he's drawing inspiration from even if it is like a made up history of that supernatural relationship between these two sisters
[00:24:46] I think would be really really interesting
[00:24:49] so I was questioning that too is the moment they're discussing the cornfield
[00:24:54] yes it feels like it yeah it feels like that to me is a good for sake of me for the humans
[00:24:59] so when basically Santa Mora's they protected Thiago and well when she started to take protected Thiago
[00:25:07] and didn't it Thiago burn in the flames that Magda says because there was that initial discussion
[00:25:13] and I went back we don't fully know what the fight about like in terms of what came before
[00:25:21] but this seems this is the the folkroom of where it looks like their relationships left
[00:25:27] yeah in that they were she was like there is this prophecy I will do this prophecy you will stand aside
[00:25:33] and Santa Mora there was like no yeah potentially that's it and I think the response from Magda when she does see the tear
[00:25:42] on Santa Mora's face is it's all worth it I've now gotten you to cry and I've now possibly even a river of tears
[00:25:49] as the way she's kind of saying yeah or an ocean of tears she's saying to her I've made I've you know I've cut a gut
[00:25:55] I've got somebody that is supposed to be very powerful and they're crying because they can't do anything in the way of what Magda's saying
[00:26:03] so while Santa Mora is a passive character in a way I don't think we're gonna see her take out swords
[00:26:10] and go into actual battle versus Magda in this show I don't think so I don't think it's gonna be like that
[00:26:17] but I do I do think that would be consistent with the caring character of Santa Mora so to her followers
[00:26:23] she's someone that you pray to and she she helps you actually in situations where as Magda's someone that nobody really wants to rank
[00:26:30] and she likes them using all of these elements so she does but I did like the whole point that Magda kind of mentioned to Santa Mora
[00:26:41] so is that you know she says to Maria you embrace Santa Mora so the icy you know who is basically the icy grasp of death
[00:26:53] yet I'm someone that will listen to your every need and provide it and you forsake me now obviously it's a slight manipulation of what she actually does
[00:27:04] which is she allows humans to do whatever they want to do and her belief in humans is they all want to do bad things
[00:27:12] yeah no but what I mean is that word of the protector the people pay to pray to for a protection and Magda delivers to humans was the worst possible thing they can do
[00:27:21] exactly I'm not but what I'm saying is it's kind of actually the choice between these two ladies doesn't seem that great quite frankly
[00:27:30] I mean I know Santa Mora seems to have obviously is not just going around collecting her her souls if you can pray to her for you know prosperity or justice
[00:27:44] or purity of heart and so on but certainly you know in the material world and certainly that of I suppose a blossoming consumer culture of 1930s America
[00:28:00] post the depression sort of awakening from that you know she's certainly pitching her message quite nicely
[00:28:08] I suppose to people whether it's to bring themselves out of the slums whether it is to reengage with that as a middle class or upper class person in society
[00:28:19] but yeah no I thought this I just have to say the set though there is great it's so beautiful even though it is like scary skeletons
[00:28:29] skeletons and teeth but I mean it is kind of when you have Maria lighting the candles and she's lit in a few and then it goes it cuts to I think Tiago and Lewis
[00:28:40] and it comes back to her and it's all lit up and it's very very very very beautiful in terms of the set design
[00:28:49] and of course what a kind of amphitheist is to have this battle between Maria and Magda this verbal battle which is just so nicely played out I think it is really really good
[00:29:04] and I think as well you know we get to hear that her spiritual guide her spiritual animal is the coyote which is interesting because you had said Derek
[00:29:17] that there's a lot of references to coyotes in this show and we want every episode for at least the first five we had some mention of coyote
[00:29:26] yeah a coyote watching on or I'll feed you the coyotes I think is mentioned to Brian the first time he's threatened by Lewis so it's something that's been in the background the whole time
[00:29:35] I just kept going why coyotes I know it's LA and okay he might be something scary if you live there but it just felt odd that it was there
[00:29:43] and then from the first moment of this episode where you see Maria and the boss she's got her little totem of a coyote
[00:29:51] and she's referred to as the old coyote she goes the old coyote knows and I like the fact that Santa Mercer goes do I need to tell her how to look after her curbs
[00:30:04] because obviously she's looking for protection for her family this is kind of interesting so I kind of looked this up on Wikipedia
[00:30:14] and just on Google in general and and generally the there is it's the very old coyote or the old man coyote
[00:30:23] but it is generally a very positive meaning in Aztec culture was and but it symbolizes the stuartness, worldly wisdom and pragmatism
[00:30:34] which is certainly things you could describe Manor Maria for and I think the only thing is that it's normally male beauty
[00:30:43] and youthfulness but it can be gender changing which I thought was interesting and because it can also be about youthfulness
[00:30:53] and passion and sexuality but it that it's a balanced kind of symbol or around goes an evil around this idea of being youthful
[00:31:04] it can shape so two interesting things it can be a shape shifting God which given what Magda does I'm like going
[00:31:14] is this kind of a counterbalance or is this why maybe Maria was she didn't see her or didn't seem to recognize Elsa
[00:31:22] and she said she could smell her you know she could feel her on her neck of Magda
[00:31:29] because I thought it was interesting that Maria didn't notice Elsa being or looking like Rio
[00:31:40] and given the intensity of that meeting with Rio and I was waiting for it.
[00:31:45] And then Magda so yeah I agree I was kind of waiting for it as well.
[00:31:49] At the end of the last episode we'd said you know she has mass Rio and then if we get into this episode she's going to meet a second version of Magda
[00:31:56] and then just a mess with us it seems the show has Magda appear in the opening scene of the episode watching Maria go buy on a bus
[00:32:04] so just to remind you this is what I looked like when you get over to Dr. Krabs says you meet your one
[00:32:09] that's me as well you know but they do all look slightly different and I think the way I kind of am puzzling it out in my head
[00:32:16] because we're not getting any explanation on the show is that we're seeing everybody as being played by Natalie Dormer
[00:32:22] but nobody else is seeing Natalie Dormer is her exact face that way she is covering herself some way
[00:32:29] because it would be really stupid for a demon to be walking around in a city or an area as small as LA
[00:32:35] this LA or this area of the city that we're seeing over and over again be very stupid of a demon to not cover herself up
[00:32:42] and realize you could bump into somebody that could recognize you and foil all your plots and plans
[00:32:48] so my in-universe idea is that we're just seeing her look the way she does but she doesn't actually look exactly that way to everybody else
[00:32:57] So I took it slightly differently. I took it as one of Magda's powers if you will
[00:33:03] is that essentially no one will see no one will connect the dots
[00:33:10] like deep as I think it was the other councilman when she meets Alex is like who are you you've come out of nowhere
[00:33:17] yeah yeah these are all figments or elements of Magda so Maria could see Magda as she was in that opening scene
[00:33:26] which is great and we see her I think she feels Magda everywhere because Magda is ever
[00:33:34] she felt it with Rio there she just doesn't know that Magda is real yeah so she can't connect those dots
[00:33:41] yeah so in me it's for me it's like one of Magda's powers is that even if I walk out I'm talking to you as Alex
[00:33:50] and then I walk into I walk out the door and come back in split second later as Rio no matter what
[00:33:58] even if I look the same you will see two people right exactly like you know think of think of Scott
[00:34:04] Bacula in quantum leap he's embodying a different person every week we as the audience see the face
[00:34:09] I'll Scott Bacula but everybody else sees what he really looks like exactly and that is it there
[00:34:14] mine yeah absolutely and that's that's why Maria she said I can smell her I can feel her on my neck
[00:34:20] yes it's the sensation of being close to evil you know when people say we walked into this place
[00:34:26] and you could sense that it was evil you know when coppers talk about gruesome crime scenes
[00:34:31] and so on that evil had been there or whatever and I think yeah so just I was just going to quickly say
[00:34:38] this shape shifting go so I thought that was interesting I wondered whether we're gonna see Maria
[00:34:43] shape shift actually and if maybe she is imbued with some old Aztec magic or power given the
[00:34:57] the speech effectively she gives to Magda around being kings and queens with Aztec blood running
[00:35:07] through us just to call it just to remind her as well remember this is a similar speech was given by Ryo to
[00:35:14] Mateo about who the Petucas are they are they are from royal blood of the Aztecs so
[00:35:19] so there is something there potentially in all of Maria's family there is a direct ascendancy
[00:35:25] from the Aztecs potentially that's another one of the supernatural aspects that could be running
[00:35:29] in the show in the future I normally end off this moment by saying that was my point
[00:35:34] but that was kind of all of our points talking about one of the biggest moments in the episode
[00:35:37] my point was just purely about the manipulations of Magda and how they're possibly opposites
[00:35:43] of what's going on with Santa Morta John do you want to take us on with another big point from the
[00:35:48] episode well it's got a small point actually it's RIP fry talk it's a very small point
[00:35:56] yeah well it and to be honest it's more about how Frank is freaking out Tom yeah it is this idea
[00:36:05] of the fear that Tommy has or of Frank and again it's not something spoken it's
[00:36:15] something that Tommy is getting you know it's instinct from Tommy around Frank
[00:36:21] that this is not how a kid of his age behaves like probably none of his friends do so it
[00:36:27] is the idea that he's a little strange and a little weird but then with the things that have
[00:36:35] happened to him it always seems to be there with Tom whether it was seeing the you know
[00:36:40] the girl who had been murdered in physical form in his room during the sleepover
[00:36:48] for Trevor's birthday or now we have this whole kind of moment where you know he's got
[00:36:57] he's got someone who was probably glad to see go out the door after the sleepover
[00:37:02] suddenly being invited into his own home by his dad and he's just like this is not no wonder
[00:37:13] he's he causes a fuss at the dinner table you know where is my my mom kind of thing
[00:37:19] and it's even just you know this tension you can hear it in the music even as
[00:37:27] Elsa starts to effectively get Maria to make sure that Trevor goes into her room
[00:37:34] she goes into the garage and Frank moves in with Tommy because she worries about
[00:37:41] Frank so she you know moves Frank into to Tom's bedroom it is it's just but the music
[00:37:49] is very sinister and you just know that as soon as the show goes back to that
[00:37:56] bedroom at night time that I would sleep like Tom does if I knew I had some kind of
[00:38:02] crazy melty boy that just melts into his mom not they knows that but I would be
[00:38:09] kind of bolt straight with my arms over the covers to stop anything from getting
[00:38:15] between them and kind of stirring sort of straight up the ceiling and at the same
[00:38:21] time it's like it's just what happens it's just how Frank kind of inserts
[00:38:27] himself to to coming over and showing the bed with with Tommy
[00:38:34] and then you know that you know that Friar took him for a bad ride really on his spinning
[00:38:43] wheel just because you've had that earlier scene where actually Tommy seems to be
[00:38:50] trying to get to no Frank and explain about Robin Horde and brings his hampsies
[00:38:54] called Friar Talk and then it's just then Franks kind of just goes all weird on him
[00:39:01] and he's like what's an unusual creature as though he's never seen a hamster before
[00:39:06] or he's never heard of one and there's only big creatures a bit of
[00:39:10] weakness as well so it's you know and it is kind of Tommy has just got the
[00:39:16] little hamster in his in his kind of fist just stroking the top of his head
[00:39:22] with his thumb and I thought that was really cute and then effectively to see
[00:39:25] the end result of all this with the death hamster in the spinning wheel I was like
[00:39:30] I'm a Friar Talk and I was like Frank I know.
[00:39:36] I know.
[00:39:37] But why have you done this and it would it's the psychology the Frank seems to be
[00:39:43] doing this fear as you say whether it's to help and keep him quiet so
[00:39:49] that he doesn't cause problems for his dad but I'm like I surely Tommy is
[00:39:54] going to go to his dad and go you know this is this is really freaking me out.
[00:40:00] How many harm is it?
[00:40:01] How many harm is it has seen especially one set in the early 1900s where kids
[00:40:06] go and try to tell their parents about the thing that scared them in their room
[00:40:09] and the parents go shut up get back in the room.
[00:40:12] You're just I think that's I think that's as parents in general.
[00:40:14] Yeah you're just unnerved by somebody else living in your room that you've never
[00:40:18] never slept in the same room with because they don't want to deal with the
[00:40:22] Babadoo in the closet.
[00:40:24] It's not because you're told Frank that's the only thing that that keeps you
[00:40:29] feeling safe in your room is hearing the guinea pig go random random as we
[00:40:33] allow night and then he died immediately after Frank turned around and
[00:40:37] stared directly at him it's nothing to do with that can't possibly be this
[00:40:40] no such thing as the super natural you know so yeah yeah
[00:40:44] It's just the first kill by Magda.
[00:40:48] This is her first kill that we've seen.
[00:40:52] What a success she is.
[00:40:54] If you think about every other death has been not by her hand she influences
[00:41:02] death and destruction.
[00:41:04] Is this a heart attack on the guinea pig?
[00:41:07] Yeah exactly so you think it's a false attack.
[00:41:10] I think she used the whisper to make the hamster run until it had a heart attack.
[00:41:15] Yeah I don't even think it was that I think it was it was that Frank doesn't
[00:41:19] even leave the bed like he's lying in the bed he turns over looks over at the
[00:41:22] hamster wheel the hamster wheel stops moving he turns back over with those
[00:41:26] creepy, scary eyes at Tommy and then Tommy realizes uh oh my guinea pig is no
[00:41:31] longer moving looks over okay isn't moving it's not like they wake up in
[00:41:35] the morning in the guinea pigs dad.
[00:41:37] I've had a massive sort of like moment that I didn't realize because they
[00:41:42] come back to it because it doesn't continue there.
[00:41:46] It doesn't they go there's another scene in between and then they come back
[00:41:50] to Tommy and Frank and it's just that Tommy is lying in bed and it looks
[00:41:54] like he's lying in bed alone like Frank's gotten back into his bed
[00:41:58] and you just see Paul Fryer took on his back in the wheel.
[00:42:04] And so yeah it could be a heart attack but I just kind of thought that Frank had
[00:42:08] gone back to his bed and in the process kind of done a quick little twist
[00:42:14] of the poor hamster's neck and then gotten into bed because I thought he was
[00:42:18] then turning away from the hamster which would mean he'd be looking at Tommy
[00:42:23] but he wasn't I can't okay grand oh no he was in the same bed so he's
[00:42:29] turning back to look at Tom yeah with those scary eyes as the wheel is no
[00:42:35] longer moving yeah so I can't focus anyway still Frank this is she can
[00:42:41] communicate with animals and she told the hamster to run until it had a heart
[00:42:46] well and because she didn't kill it like like she didn't just like because
[00:42:50] then why didn't she can't kill can't even back because I because she's
[00:42:55] a councilman not a hamster but she if you can make it look like a heart attack before
[00:43:00] we get lowage of messes in it's a guinea pig as well so oh guinea pig or a hamster
[00:43:06] obviously all of us have taken different notes because I know both of you have
[00:43:09] called them either a hamster or guinea pig and I'm calling it a guinea pig
[00:43:12] it's a hamster okay so maybe a hamster so really sorry if we got that wrong
[00:43:16] to hamster to try and get me pick Tommy says this is my hamster try to pick
[00:43:21] but anyway that's fine sorry okay so whatever I dent whatever rodent it is
[00:43:28] it does deserve this death no it did not but I first of all it's the first
[00:43:34] body kind that we see directly at the mind or hands of my dad didn't
[00:43:42] touch us didn't touch us didn't touch us said mind or hands mostly mind
[00:43:46] but this for me is that the weird part because it is she usually whispers
[00:43:52] so she didn't go like she's getting so angry at like can't
[00:43:57] to one back at that point that she now is going to get and we'll discuss
[00:44:02] it later she's gonna get the Nazis after can't to one back so I'm just like
[00:44:07] hmm maybe she can't influence she can't just kill you dead
[00:44:14] yeah that's why it was like maybe she has to do the whispers and the whispers are
[00:44:18] run until you you have heart attack or it shoot that gun or it's like
[00:44:24] she she cannot directly attack you yeah she can influence
[00:44:30] she has no power she's like a person under the age of 25 with an Instagram
[00:44:34] account she's an influencer she tells people
[00:44:38] shuts fire just because I'm not under 25 anymore that's her
[00:44:42] but you're still on Instagram I'm not an influencer in I think she as well
[00:44:47] she's going to play it more savvy because town centers talked about getting rid
[00:44:52] of her before yeah and she's just kind of like will know and but
[00:44:57] and at the same time in a conversations with her guests she it was more
[00:45:02] about and well if depending on if the time is right and if depending
[00:45:08] on how events move maybe we have to but for the for the moment we don't want
[00:45:13] the light shining on us we don't want to try and encourage that so I think
[00:45:18] you know because immediately after that she talks about
[00:45:23] councilman Beck being a problem to towns and towns and says
[00:45:27] you're a cutthroat political analyst but now we need someone to effectively
[00:45:32] you know cutthroat yeah and so like this this is kind of coming back to the
[00:45:37] promise but yeah I mean I kind of still feel I mean even with Maria and
[00:45:42] Magda I kind of felt that I was kind of in my mind saying Maria a little too
[00:45:47] close to Magda here you don't know what she's going to do I still feel
[00:45:51] that she could do something but I suppose I'm coming around to your
[00:45:57] you're feeling and Derek and Chris that yes she's maybe a little her
[00:46:05] power isn't in physicality it's purely an manipulation but I still feel
[00:46:11] she looks pretty intimidating. Her power seems to be in finding the
[00:46:14] people that she that can be manipulated and manipulating them in the way
[00:46:18] that she needs to having that ability to be able to manipulate
[00:46:21] them and as a chair John she does have to be much more careful with
[00:46:24] councilman Beck than Frank has to with fire talk because you can't
[00:46:28] really flush councilman back there. Well you killed her good.
[00:46:33] What took place? Let's see if bodies have been found in the
[00:46:35] series was quite difficult to flush body. More bits of it one at a time.
[00:46:40] I'd take too long. You could. Gosh it sounds as though I knew it
[00:46:44] was going to be out of this which is not the case. Fellow
[00:46:49] treadfalls. So very much the way I see it is that Magda
[00:46:53] and Santa Marta are two sides of the same coin. The young
[00:46:57] young of a divine angel god demigod whatever their powers
[00:47:04] are manipulation through whispers and that gets you to
[00:47:09] the end point. So you pray to Santa Marta for for money prosperity
[00:47:18] and what you get is Santa Marta influences basically a lot of
[00:47:25] scratch card or a bank manager or a windfall or you pray to
[00:47:30] Santa Marta for a job and she influences you the interview
[00:47:35] or interview work. The Magda is the same way if you prayed to
[00:47:42] Magda which she tries to get Maria on to and go I want to
[00:47:46] become the new furler then she would influence or council
[00:47:52] tansend councilman tansend goes I want to be powerful. I want power
[00:47:58] so she through manipulation through whispers because she cannot
[00:48:02] directly go out and kill someone directly she manipulates
[00:48:07] through all the different channels to her end gold in ultimate
[00:48:11] power is becoming the president of the United States of America
[00:48:14] at one point. And that's where she's pushing council
[00:48:17] and tansend but I think the interesting thing with Magda is that
[00:48:20] she has almost that anarchist go behind all of these people
[00:48:24] that she's manipulating who may or may not be praying to Magda
[00:48:27] or may or may not know that that Magda is behind their success
[00:48:32] most of them will not know that Magda is behind their success
[00:48:35] but they are getting what they want but like the old Mokees
[00:48:39] Paul idea they're kind of wish granted bush the negative side
[00:48:42] of it is that it's all building towards she's putting in those
[00:48:45] positions to get to her ultimate goal of creating fire in chaos
[00:48:49] in the world race against race brother against brother nation
[00:48:53] against nation. Yeah and I think it's going to come John doesn't
[00:48:56] know the Mokees Paul idea sorry Mokees Paul that's from many fantasy
[00:49:01] stories effectively the three wishes you get three wishes granted
[00:49:04] and you say you know I like Aladdin like Aladdin but it's
[00:49:08] much more there's always a negative impact for the wish that
[00:49:11] you want to get given the wish but there's something I've never
[00:49:14] heard of a Mokees Paul before. Well it's you're in in all
[00:49:18] in original films they started one of them was the twilight on
[00:49:22] it was literally a Mokees Paul and every time they made though
[00:49:26] it started as a kind of fist in the fingers come up started
[00:49:30] as three three fingers and a thumb and as you made each wish
[00:49:35] they went oh I do remember that yeah and then at the end
[00:49:40] so each one had a negative reaction like I want money but
[00:49:44] you get money because you're all your family die and you get in
[00:49:48] hell well I do remember that and actually that would fit in neatly
[00:49:52] with Maria because let's face it she has prayed to Santa
[00:49:55] Moser and there is a moment where I feel it's like
[00:49:59] none of that seems to have helped I mean in a sense why she's
[00:50:03] going back again to pray to find out why her family is falling apart
[00:50:06] but I just thought so sorry for Maria Vega she comes back
[00:50:10] from a full day working at the craft. Oh yeah. To prepare all
[00:50:13] the food for a family no one helps her and half a
[00:50:18] children are not those so the tables only set for three
[00:50:21] and use the good ivory culture exactly. Yeah she has
[00:50:26] a fight with here's a female who also then doesn't eat
[00:50:29] and hasn't helped doesn't do the watch. Yeah they look
[00:50:34] really nice and Raoul is useless after the one thing
[00:50:38] that you know her prayer has affected is just she goes
[00:50:43] you sit and sit and don't say anything you know it's good
[00:50:46] to know that here's a female has an older brother that can
[00:50:49] tell her as it's like you know she's seeing her family fall
[00:50:52] apart doing all this work for them and everyone's
[00:50:56] and is a nightmare and certainly after Mateo basically told
[00:51:03] her to run and jump in the last episode I was like
[00:51:06] distraught for the poor woman because I think Adriana
[00:51:10] Berasa is just playing her so well I feel so sorry for
[00:51:14] her and I'm expecting her to become badass because she is
[00:51:19] just because of what she's having to put up with but like
[00:51:22] so she's talking to suit two supernatural beings who are
[00:51:24] almost threatening very threatening to her and she's
[00:51:26] taken nothing. Yeah she's really steps up. She banishes
[00:51:30] that was cool that was awesome but she does have a
[00:51:33] great line and snark though I have to say for Maria
[00:51:36] Adriana Berasa just delivers some lines so good I love
[00:51:39] what she's saying in that room in that argument with
[00:51:42] Josephina and turns around to Raoul going tell your
[00:51:45] sister I won't even listen to her nonsense anymore
[00:51:47] kick her out and then Josephina runs away and then
[00:51:49] she goes to Raoul you do nothing at all you say
[00:51:51] nothing you sit here and do nothing at all and then
[00:51:54] that's it she walks out the river love the kind of
[00:51:56] sass and confidence that she has even though she's
[00:51:58] really angry at everything that's going on she just has
[00:52:01] a way of really showing it to the kids you know
[00:52:04] but yeah I think you're you've hit a John absolutely
[00:52:08] zombie bro still hasn't had any kind of story lines
[00:52:10] since he came back from the dead as we're calling
[00:52:13] and at least based on the prayer two centimeters
[00:52:15] but the cost of it is Maria's family is falling apart
[00:52:19] and all of these bad things from her point of view
[00:52:21] at least all of these bad things are happening to her family
[00:52:24] and yeah both families actually and yet her
[00:52:28] contention that you know her family is at the center of this
[00:52:32] chess game of this battle our plan between these two
[00:52:36] sisters that she knows nothing about you know
[00:52:40] is absolutely confirmed here by by the two sisters
[00:52:46] really in terms of that they don't and they don't
[00:52:50] refute it but so this is they don't refute it
[00:52:55] but I have a question is Mike there really after her
[00:52:59] family if we if we look back and using I think yeah
[00:53:04] don't know whether she's after because I took it as
[00:53:07] she was saying why is Mike to after me and my family
[00:53:11] so because and then if we that's the way I took
[00:53:14] because she this is when she describes I I know
[00:53:17] she's there she's always at the back I tell you
[00:53:20] the back of my neck she's after my family she's
[00:53:22] destroying my family and the only
[00:53:25] version of Mike that directly going and targeting
[00:53:31] her family is real because when Mike
[00:53:35] at the Wyatt in episode one was not directly
[00:53:39] targeting the older brother it was not directly
[00:53:43] targeting Tiago no but it's pulling them into
[00:53:46] the situation so Mateo possibly more directly
[00:53:51] than than the others and Ti and it's not
[00:53:55] just Magda I think it's a bigger thing
[00:53:58] between Santa more certain max and again
[00:54:01] just to kind of go back to what we were talking about earlier on
[00:54:03] I don't think Maria even recognizes Magda is
[00:54:07] Rio Magda is Elsa she's had no reaction to that
[00:54:10] so while you're right Chris for we've seen on TV
[00:54:13] on these episodes is Rio has manipulated one of her children
[00:54:16] that version of Magda in Rio has manipulated
[00:54:19] one of her children what she's feeling is Magda's
[00:54:22] all around my family is falling apart both
[00:54:25] families I'm involved in the craft family that
[00:54:27] she's been involved in since the children were
[00:54:29] we're only just born that family's falling apart
[00:54:32] as well this must be the influence of the devil
[00:54:35] as we say in Kristen faith and Catholic faiths
[00:54:38] she's saying Magda the demon of their faith
[00:54:42] is the one that's manipulating her family
[00:54:45] and destroying them just she can't see it she can't
[00:54:47] prove it she can't she doesn't know for a definite
[00:54:50] but she can feel it in her bones
[00:54:52] and that's why bringing it back to my point
[00:54:55] Friar Tuck was an innocent cute little hamster
[00:55:00] slash guinea pig slash rat slash mouse
[00:55:04] slash gerbil slash prairie dog caught in the
[00:55:07] house just to cover all red squirrel and
[00:55:10] slash squirrel okay
[00:55:12] no no and but that's the thing I find
[00:55:15] so funny because
[00:55:19] it's the presumption that
[00:55:23] we know to be true we know it to be true
[00:55:27] it's just that blind faith
[00:55:29] the world is my family's going to hell
[00:55:32] I believe I feel
[00:55:34] the hand of the devil
[00:55:36] the devil is targeting me
[00:55:38] it's just like I take it as such a
[00:55:41] commentary right and not just a commentary on
[00:55:44] people who blame
[00:55:46] kind of misfortune on
[00:55:49] faith demigods faith religion
[00:55:52] things like that now we know it to be true
[00:55:55] but like in real life
[00:55:58] that like people do that as well
[00:56:00] I just I found it that I was just like
[00:56:02] it's really the way he's the nuance
[00:56:04] of what he's doing yeah but
[00:56:05] strangely enough
[00:56:07] it's true it is but true in a different way
[00:56:10] and that's kind of where we're having the
[00:56:12] question popping up for all three of us
[00:56:14] really is because it is true and it did in a different way
[00:56:16] we're seeing magnet impersonating
[00:56:18] three different people manipulating people
[00:56:20] that's benefacting Vega family
[00:56:22] craft family what she's feeling is the devil
[00:56:25] is having a hand in destroying her family
[00:56:27] she won't she wouldn't be able to point
[00:56:29] to these three women and a lineup and go
[00:56:31] this one is the one that's running to
[00:56:32] aggers life this is the one that's
[00:56:34] really just feed his life this is the one
[00:56:35] that's that's running
[00:56:37] Mateo's life she wouldn't be able to do that
[00:56:39] she just knows the devil Magda is involved
[00:56:42] in the reundition of her family
[00:56:44] and you're right Chris
[00:56:46] there's definitely this episode
[00:56:47] particularly has some damning commentary
[00:56:50] on their on religions
[00:56:52] and blind faith more than anything else I think
[00:56:55] blind faith particularly
[00:56:57] like religion that I'm sure
[00:56:58] I don't believe there's any commentary
[00:57:00] on people who are religious but having blind faith
[00:57:02] and things seems to be where John Logan
[00:57:05] has had the issue with people in the past
[00:57:07] religious people who believe everything
[00:57:09] because faith says believe it all
[00:57:11] rather than having a question
[00:57:13] opening mind and being religious
[00:57:15] seems to be where his perspective comes from
[00:57:18] so gentlemen I think as a time we move on
[00:57:22] all the supernatural
[00:57:24] this is a great tip to my point
[00:57:26] which is the Zee Germans
[00:57:30] no no no I'm joking
[00:57:32] it's actually just because I wanted to say this
[00:57:36] I know every episode
[00:57:38] we will get to the Nazis
[00:57:40] but I want to tell you
[00:57:41] we are never covering a show that specifically relates
[00:57:44] to something in Germany
[00:57:46] like dark for example
[00:57:48] no no oh my god
[00:57:50] anyway let's move on
[00:57:52] we did get a request from one of our fellow watchers
[00:57:54] that we actually covered hunters on Amazon
[00:57:57] we actually covered the show
[00:57:58] we've talked about it a few times
[00:57:59] I'll watch till I'll enjoy it
[00:58:00] and I'm never covering that show with you Chris
[00:58:02] there's no chance
[00:58:03] I'm not going to lie
[00:58:05] I'm just like yeah
[00:58:07] I don't think I can do it with a straight face
[00:58:09] I make too much light of terrible situations
[00:58:11] it's the Irish in me
[00:58:13] so yeah I want to move it on to my main point
[00:58:16] which is my second cousin
[00:58:18] the Gegemmer
[00:58:20] this
[00:58:22] well first of all you have two parts to this
[00:58:25] we have Mitch
[00:58:26] first of all
[00:58:27] now we get the scene where Tiago
[00:58:30] a mentioner are in
[00:58:32] Mitchner's Nazi hunting cave
[00:58:34] aka his apartment
[00:58:36] and we do get this great part
[00:58:38] where Tiago is pushing back going
[00:58:40] no I'm not going to help you
[00:58:42] with hunting these Nazis
[00:58:44] and this is where Mitchner comes in
[00:58:46] and goes
[00:58:48] do you think I helped you for this
[00:58:50] just being friends
[00:58:52] I love that
[00:58:54] this is my favorite
[00:58:56] I'm calling in my favor
[00:58:58] I just wasn't expecting it to be
[00:59:00] as blatantly put by Mitchner
[00:59:02] I was expecting that later on
[00:59:04] I was expecting that in the car
[00:59:06] but straight up
[00:59:08] Mitchner's like no no no
[00:59:10] I've covered your ass
[00:59:12] I've saved your family
[00:59:14] you're saving mine
[00:59:16] then he goes into
[00:59:18] speaking about his friends
[00:59:20] who have died
[00:59:22] and we're reintroduced to Dottie
[00:59:24] which gives us a classic
[00:59:26] classic where you see Tiago
[00:59:28] kind of go
[00:59:30] her really?
[00:59:32] and she goes I was running guns
[00:59:34] in the Spanish-American war
[00:59:36] before you were in diapers
[00:59:38] and he goes out there
[00:59:40] that was awesome
[00:59:42] I
[00:59:44] want someone in my life
[00:59:46] like Dottie
[00:59:48] but yeah I do love the scene
[00:59:50] as Lewis gets his
[00:59:52] Batman gets his Robin into
[00:59:54] this is a it's interesting
[00:59:56] because we did talk about
[00:59:58] last week you know this idea
[01:00:00] of the misuse of power
[01:00:02] with the police
[01:00:04] with these two
[01:00:06] going into the situation
[01:00:08] and making the decision
[01:00:10] as to what way they were going to proceed
[01:00:12] with putting Diego behind bars
[01:00:14] and they were going to pin
[01:00:16] these crimes on them
[01:00:18] and sometimes that story is just left
[01:00:20] there you know
[01:00:22] effectively he knows he wasn't
[01:00:24] manipulated into doing what he did
[01:00:26] he didn't make a bad choice
[01:00:28] or a mistake
[01:00:30] he's gone along with something that is a sin
[01:00:32] and Lewis here going
[01:00:34] I also know it's wrong
[01:00:36] and I didn't just do it for your benefit
[01:00:38] I did it from my benefit as well
[01:00:40] I did it because it was the best option
[01:00:42] and the only way for both of us
[01:00:44] in this situation and your brother
[01:00:46] and I did it so I could get a favor
[01:00:48] from it which is
[01:00:50] the storyline egg from last week
[01:00:52] this isn't something that is just
[01:00:54] they made this decision as police officers
[01:00:56] to put this guy behind bars
[01:00:58] and that's it they can move on
[01:01:00] and make other bad decisions in future
[01:01:02] this is something that will
[01:01:04] prevail on both of these characters
[01:01:06] for the rest of season
[01:01:08] I thought it was really good
[01:01:10] that Lewis reveals
[01:01:12] his own kind of private Nazi investigation
[01:01:14] to Tiago
[01:01:16] but I love to even more
[01:01:18] I'm collecting on
[01:01:20] your debt basically
[01:01:22] and it even makes the scene
[01:01:24] at the end of last week's episode
[01:01:26] with
[01:01:28] Nathan Lane does this really good thing
[01:01:30] where you kind of
[01:01:32] certainly for the character
[01:01:34] of Mitchner
[01:01:36] he really kind of shows
[01:01:38] that he's processing
[01:01:40] everything that's going on
[01:01:42] with everything that's been said
[01:01:44] and it's in this moment
[01:01:46] I can now use
[01:01:48] you know I've lost Anton
[01:01:50] I've lost my two wing men
[01:01:52] I've only got Dottie left
[01:01:54] I can pull him into this
[01:01:56] and use this as leverage
[01:01:58] to effectively force him into it
[01:02:00] and I think that's kind of interesting
[01:02:02] you know
[01:02:04] it's probably wise he got to where
[01:02:06] he has got as a detective
[01:02:08] in the LAPD
[01:02:10] so yeah I really like this
[01:02:12] So that was perfect
[01:02:14] thank you John because the way you said
[01:02:16] at that point he forces Tiago
[01:02:18] into joining him
[01:02:20] then we move to the car scene
[01:02:22] and this is the scene where we get
[01:02:24] where Mitchner is explaining
[01:02:26] his second cousin
[01:02:28] from the Reinland
[01:02:30] which was invaded by Germany
[01:02:32] he was a Jew
[01:02:34] and homosexual
[01:02:36] he was the trifecta
[01:02:38] he was a generous
[01:02:40] as they called him
[01:02:42] and we get the story of
[01:02:44] when he was a child
[01:02:46] his second cousins came over from the Reinland
[01:02:48] and basically
[01:02:50] they swam in the sea
[01:02:52] and it was all nice
[01:02:54] and he brought over belt and chocolate
[01:02:56] which is some great chocolate
[01:02:58] and we will do it this
[01:03:00] but then we get the story of how he
[01:03:02] unfortunately was killed
[01:03:04] by a midhook
[01:03:06] and they took photos
[01:03:08] and film and sent it back to
[01:03:10] but this changes it because
[01:03:12] the reason he brings the story is
[01:03:14] because he basically says
[01:03:16] no Tiago we are not here
[01:03:18] to arrest these boys
[01:03:20] we're here to kill
[01:03:22] the Gestapo and Heragos
[01:03:24] like these men will die
[01:03:26] for what they've done
[01:03:28] and you can see
[01:03:30] Tiago bristle
[01:03:32] I'm not going to commit another scene
[01:03:34] like this is not my retribution
[01:03:36] this is
[01:03:38] I won't be better by doing worse
[01:03:40] but through this story
[01:03:42] basically it's no longer forcing
[01:03:44] Tiago because Tiago
[01:03:46] then willingly
[01:03:48] believes in the justice of what they're about to do
[01:03:50] he like takes out the gun
[01:03:52] and he's like yeah
[01:03:54] it's a redemption part
[01:03:56] two a degree
[01:03:58] not killing someone is not
[01:04:00] redemptive
[01:04:02] but it's softening it because he's doing
[01:04:04] the right thing
[01:04:06] well it's proper revenge
[01:04:08] and I think
[01:04:10] Lewis has given Tiago
[01:04:12] the justification he needs to
[01:04:14] join in the revenge
[01:04:16] yeah one of the things
[01:04:18] I really liked about the story
[01:04:20] Christian you're right
[01:04:22] another great moment from Nathan Lane
[01:04:24] in this show
[01:04:26] one of the great things I like
[01:04:28] about the kind of framing of that
[01:04:30] within the overall narrative
[01:04:32] and within the
[01:04:34] scenes that his cousin
[01:04:36] died on a meat hook
[01:04:38] and that was filmed and sent to Hitler
[01:04:40] now these days
[01:04:42] you say something is filmed
[01:04:44] and sent around online
[01:04:46] and it takes two seconds
[01:04:48] every takes out the camera phone
[01:04:50] and it's sent around online
[01:04:52] I like the way that it's
[01:04:54] it's set within the 30s
[01:04:56] that all of these people are film fans
[01:04:58] they're all living in LA
[01:05:00] they understand something like
[01:05:02] they've had cameras in their house
[01:05:04] like they would have in the 60s or 70s
[01:05:06] so this idea that they actually
[01:05:08] went out of their way to ship a camera
[01:05:10] to Berlin
[01:05:12] to watch this as they called
[01:05:14] a degenerate die film that
[01:05:16] and send it to Hitler for a laugh
[01:05:18] that's a massive thing
[01:05:20] and I think they surrounded it so well
[01:05:22] in production that you do get
[01:05:24] the feeling why Tiago would go
[01:05:26] these people are monsters
[01:05:28] like it's a monstrous thing
[01:05:30] on YouTube this is
[01:05:32] they've made a production out of this
[01:05:34] to show off to Hitler how much
[01:05:36] they're willing to do
[01:05:38] on his behalf around Berlin
[01:05:40] and it's sent a message all the way across the world
[01:05:42] to Lewis who's going
[01:05:44] these people can't be allowed anywhere near
[01:05:46] our country
[01:05:48] yeah and I mean
[01:05:50] but the Nazis were at the
[01:05:52] you know gobbles was at the forefront of using
[01:05:54] in those days
[01:05:56] the modern technology
[01:05:58] to just enhance the Nazi party
[01:06:02] propaganda so whether it was movies
[01:06:04] you think of the Nuremberg
[01:06:06] rallies in the staging and radio as well
[01:06:10] and grand proxies
[01:06:12] to cement the power
[01:06:14] I mean whole range of different ways
[01:06:16] but one of them was the new
[01:06:18] media for that time
[01:06:20] as well which is
[01:06:22] is fascinating within the current
[01:06:24] context I think as well
[01:06:26] I think the other interesting thing is that
[01:06:28] you know
[01:06:30] Jews
[01:06:32] were targeted
[01:06:34] before the
[01:06:36] extermination camps
[01:06:38] but so were you know things like
[01:06:40] homosexuals
[01:06:42] disabled people
[01:06:44] and Romanovs
[01:06:46] and gypsies
[01:06:48] they were even
[01:06:50] in a sense there I say it's softer
[01:06:52] easier targets to begin with
[01:06:54] in terms of
[01:06:56] various persecutions that the Germans did as well as with the Jews
[01:07:00] and I love the fact that
[01:07:02] with Mitchen's story a fact you know
[01:07:04] in terms of the degenerate
[01:07:06] there's two
[01:07:08] parts of his
[01:07:10] cousin because he's Jewish
[01:07:12] and his ancestry
[01:07:14] and because he's a homosexual
[01:07:16] yeah
[01:07:18] it is
[01:07:20] the biggest affront to this
[01:07:22] Nazi regime
[01:07:24] and yet at the end of the day
[01:07:26] it's something
[01:07:28] completely innocuous
[01:07:30] I've done literally
[01:07:32] even say he couldn't live based on their rules
[01:07:34] and how they run the society
[01:07:36] my cousin couldn't live because he
[01:07:38] not only is a Jew he's also queer
[01:07:40] like it's
[01:07:42] two different elements that
[01:07:44] they couldn't possibly let this guy
[01:07:46] live on the rest of his life
[01:07:48] and I think as well
[01:07:50] there's little you know
[01:07:52] from a historical point of
[01:07:54] something in Mitchen's story where he says
[01:07:56] where he talks about this
[01:07:58] re-militarization of the
[01:08:00] Rhineland that he says
[01:08:02] but he probably didn't even hear about
[01:08:04] you didn't even catch it
[01:08:06] or it didn't even register with you
[01:08:08] and I think that's one of the really interesting things as well
[01:08:10] there was a lot of shouting at this
[01:08:12] that there was more
[01:08:14] to the Nazis than
[01:08:16] met the eye in that sense
[01:08:18] and that's just a little nod to that
[01:08:20] in Mitchen's story and I think
[01:08:22] it covers
[01:08:24] it's so well detailed about
[01:08:26] what's happening here
[01:08:28] and yeah it's a great
[01:08:30] great story in that it brings Tiago
[01:08:32] from being a reluctant participant
[01:08:34] in this to one where
[01:08:36] you know he goes
[01:08:38] he gets his gun out effectively
[01:08:40] to become a willing
[01:08:42] to be a licensed and registered
[01:08:44] detective to go
[01:08:46] and effectively
[01:08:48] collect further deaths
[01:08:50] of Anton and the other guy
[01:08:52] I can't remember the other guy's name
[01:08:54] and...
[01:08:56] no no the two Jewish friends
[01:08:58] of Mitchen
[01:09:00] collect their deaths you know
[01:09:02] repay the death of their deaths
[01:09:04] so I thought that was
[01:09:06] great little story
[01:09:08] yeah and this as you
[01:09:10] minutes we talked about how
[01:09:12] they did use technology
[01:09:14] and in this case
[01:09:16] radio we're starting to see
[01:09:18] our threads are coming together
[01:09:20] our chessboard is starting
[01:09:22] to make sense because
[01:09:24] outside of councilman
[01:09:26] Tenzend joining
[01:09:28] hairgoss and cut the Gestapo
[01:09:30] who were just having a nice
[01:09:32] long discussion about
[01:09:34] how he was a co-blit
[01:09:35] killer icicle and if he's
[01:09:37] becoming a soft icicle
[01:09:39] he gets more useful
[01:09:41] are you a hard or soft
[01:09:43] icicle for councilman
[01:09:45] Tenzend?
[01:09:47] yes but then we see the
[01:09:49] councilman join and Alex join
[01:09:51] and I was like cool
[01:09:53] that's I saw the other chair
[01:09:55] and I went okay maybe
[01:09:57] production just did it like that
[01:09:59] but then finally
[01:10:01] we now start to understand
[01:10:03] because Miss Adelaide, Molly's
[01:10:05] starting to see
[01:10:07] oh wow
[01:10:09] hold on
[01:10:11] they are going to use
[01:10:13] Molly and I think this is something
[01:10:15] that Derek you back in episode
[01:10:17] 1
[01:10:19] no, when back in the
[01:10:21] episode 3 when Molly is
[01:10:23] introduced
[01:10:25] you talked about how this was
[01:10:27] the newest thing
[01:10:29] this was their internet
[01:10:31] this was their TV
[01:10:33] and it was beyond just an
[01:10:35] evangelical kind of
[01:10:37] big session
[01:10:39] this was something huge
[01:10:41] and I'm like okay
[01:10:43] now that the
[01:10:45] the chess board is starting to make sense in my head
[01:10:47] we couldn't figure out how
[01:10:49] I couldn't figure out
[01:10:51] originally how Molly was
[01:10:53] directly tied to the larger story
[01:10:55] and now we can start to see
[01:10:57] okay well she's tied
[01:10:59] to this because
[01:11:01] essentially her mother
[01:11:03] is using the church
[01:11:05] or potentially will use the church
[01:11:07] as part of the Nazis
[01:11:09] nefarious scheme
[01:11:11] absolutely
[01:11:13] or has been the whole time
[01:11:15] and Molly has been
[01:11:17] manipulative the whole time
[01:11:19] which means we could have killer
[01:11:21] curse right here
[01:11:23] curse could be the one responsible
[01:11:25] for the hazelitz murders
[01:11:27] it seems very likely he'd be
[01:11:29] for Miss Adelaide
[01:11:31] and Molly's practice
[01:11:33] and the church
[01:11:35] it's very likely he would go
[01:11:37] do you know it will be a really good way
[01:11:39] to get them out of the way
[01:11:41] if we blame it on somebody else
[01:11:43] kill them in a style
[01:11:45] that leads the police towards the Mexicans
[01:11:47] that is very likely
[01:11:49] something that curts
[01:11:51] and the Nazis would do
[01:11:53] so I'm kind of thinking
[01:11:55] this is not the first meeting
[01:11:57] so much that didn't seem to be
[01:11:59] I don't know whether there was even
[01:12:01] an introduction between the mother
[01:12:03] then he pulls the chair out as she sits down
[01:12:05] so we need to see what's happening
[01:12:07] in that room but I think
[01:12:09] this is something that's been going on for a long time
[01:12:11] and I think we've just found our killer
[01:12:13] just purely from that connection
[01:12:15] well they're talking about the war
[01:12:17] to come following
[01:12:19] Miss Malone and
[01:12:21] Councilwoman Beck's meeting
[01:12:23] and you know
[01:12:25] it almost feels to me we had previously at
[01:12:27] the crafts were
[01:12:29] Peter's
[01:12:31] colleague in the German American
[01:12:33] Bunts as we need to use
[01:12:35] radio so there's been that
[01:12:37] kind of potential way in but
[01:12:39] here as well you're just wondering
[01:12:41] whether Miss Adelaide
[01:12:43] is what
[01:12:45] Alex says that
[01:12:47] you can take all the right
[01:12:49] thinking people and we'll
[01:12:51] take all the angry people
[01:12:53] that are remaining and
[01:12:55] that wave of anger and fear
[01:12:57] and obviously
[01:12:59] this to me is
[01:13:01] the meeting of that council
[01:13:03] to ride that wave
[01:13:05] and some of it
[01:13:07] may be towards
[01:13:09] the death of
[01:13:11] Councilwoman Beck
[01:13:13] and maybe it's something that
[01:13:15] it's Kurt
[01:13:17] or they're going to try and get
[01:13:19] Randolph, Miss Adelaide
[01:13:21] sidekick to do that
[01:13:23] and
[01:13:25] she will be the propaganda
[01:13:27] because she's not owned by
[01:13:29] the Catholics or the Jewish
[01:13:31] owners of the big
[01:13:33] media stations and radio stations
[01:13:35] that they will be
[01:13:37] the mouthpiece to effectively
[01:13:39] preach and evangelize
[01:13:41] and effectively
[01:13:43] hate from
[01:13:45] the gospel
[01:13:47] so yeah it's really
[01:13:49] it's really
[01:13:51] interesting to get
[01:13:53] cancer maintenance
[01:13:55] present.
[01:13:57] Yeah and it is
[01:13:59] it starts to open up
[01:14:01] what may actually happen
[01:14:03] for sure.
[01:14:05] So I am curious
[01:14:07] does that I wonder
[01:14:09] if looking back at this now
[01:14:11] in a new lens
[01:14:13] when Miss Adelaide
[01:14:15] is Molly's mother
[01:14:17] sitting with Molly
[01:14:19] and she's going to
[01:14:21] get a lot of
[01:14:23] things that she's
[01:14:25] going away from her
[01:14:27] flock and all that
[01:14:29] it's because he's
[01:14:31] Spanish-American
[01:14:33] he's Latino.
[01:14:35] Maybe.
[01:14:37] Like there could be
[01:14:39] an Nazi element to this.
[01:14:41] Maybe I think it was more
[01:14:43] what wasn't said
[01:14:45] by her anyway in that
[01:14:47] she tries to get Molly
[01:14:49] to not go into the
[01:14:51] relationship because
[01:14:53] Molly would lose all the
[01:14:55] great things that she created
[01:14:57] and Molly kind of says
[01:14:59] to her and you also don't get
[01:15:01] the money from the church.
[01:15:03] She goes we don't get the money
[01:15:05] from the church but the other
[01:15:07] thing that she's probably
[01:15:09] getting out of this
[01:15:11] relationship with the Nazis
[01:15:13] is a lot of power which
[01:15:15] seems to be something that's too
[01:15:16] eager for the Nazis and has
[01:15:18] the era of what she probably
[01:15:20] believes is going to be a very
[01:15:22] powerful group.
[01:15:24] You could be.
[01:15:26] But I'm interested to see
[01:15:28] where this goes because straight
[01:15:30] away we get
[01:15:32] Mentioner and Thiago.
[01:15:34] Guns are put away.
[01:15:36] This suddenly just got
[01:15:38] a lot more interesting.
[01:15:40] Unless you said
[01:15:42] I'm taking it back
[01:15:44] to the early parts of our
[01:15:46] episode where we say
[01:15:48] maybe they're setting up the
[01:15:50] craft for season two.
[01:15:52] Don't do that.
[01:15:54] Please don't do that writers.
[01:15:56] Don't do that John Logan
[01:15:58] because
[01:16:00] you're not going to
[01:16:02] get the money from the
[01:16:04] church.
[01:16:06] You're not going to get the money
[01:16:08] from the church.
[01:16:10] You're not going to get the money
[01:16:12] from the church.
[01:16:14] You're not going to get the
[01:16:16] season two.
[01:16:18] I think
[01:16:20] a more self-containing
[01:16:22] that story,
[01:16:24] this story deeper is going
[01:16:26] to be interesting.
[01:16:28] If you get season two
[01:16:30] go all to history.
[01:16:32] That's going to be great.
[01:16:34] Bring Hitler to America
[01:16:36] and put him up and set him up
[01:16:38] and everything like that.
[01:16:40] That's the core of it.
[01:16:42] Yeah, there's no question
[01:16:44] that we have no idea
[01:16:46] whether there's going to be a second
[01:16:48] season. There's been no
[01:16:50] announcement of that at all. I suppose
[01:16:52] the reason why I have it on my head
[01:16:54] that might be the way it's going
[01:16:56] is because the timeline that we're talking about seems very long.
[01:16:58] For only three episodes unless
[01:17:00] there's a time jump which could
[01:17:02] absolutely happen in the last
[01:17:04] episode. That could be a time jump that sets up season two
[01:17:06] perhaps something like that.
[01:17:08] I haven't seen it but
[01:17:10] Penny Dreadful season one,
[01:17:12] the big bad of that show
[01:17:14] is not Satan and is not drag
[01:17:16] Dracula. Those are the two big
[01:17:18] bads for the next two seasons
[01:17:20] but those two characters are set up
[01:17:22] during the running time of season one
[01:17:24] they're mentioned as being
[01:17:26] people that are on the opposite
[01:17:28] side of our main cast
[01:17:30] but they don't come out
[01:17:32] they don't become the big bads
[01:17:34] within the first season of that show.
[01:17:36] Doctor Craft being played by Roy
[01:17:38] Kiner. We're all interested in Roy
[01:17:40] Kiner as an actor because we love them in other shows
[01:17:42] but his part hasn't played a huge
[01:17:44] event in this season
[01:17:46] so I'm wondering had they cast him
[01:17:48] in that role to keep you interested
[01:17:50] in something that may not play out this season?
[01:17:52] I hope it does play it more and I think
[01:17:54] this episode is the one that gave us more
[01:17:56] about Doctor Craft than any other
[01:17:58] episode so far but it's still not tying
[01:18:00] into the main storyline just yet so
[01:18:02] maybe it's something that might just tie it at
[01:18:04] the end of the season so we can see
[01:18:06] now he's Nazi Craft
[01:18:08] and then we see his head
[01:18:10] completely plays out you know
[01:18:12] it's like Minecraft
[01:18:14] but it's not that
[01:18:16] because I keep thinking that craft
[01:18:18] should be spelt with a K
[01:18:20] not with a C. I'm constantly
[01:18:22] got that in my mind
[01:18:24] for sure. That's like a cheeser
[01:18:26] or butter in Germany isn't it?
[01:18:28] It's Wistland craft butter craft
[01:18:30] cheese isn't it?
[01:18:32] And on top of that as well
[01:18:34] it's craft services
[01:18:36] and craft Philadelphia
[01:18:38] Yeah exactly
[01:18:40] But gentlemen
[01:18:42] No I was just going to say one
[01:18:44] other quick thing from this whole
[01:18:46] thing around Mitchenod
[01:18:48] but just coming back to Dottie
[01:18:50] I loved the moment
[01:18:52] that Dottie
[01:18:54] sort of reflects or echoes
[01:18:56] back to Brian
[01:18:58] in the cafe
[01:19:00] what effectively her
[01:19:02] goss has just told him that
[01:19:04] you know he talks about
[01:19:06] we are builders not destroyers
[01:19:08] as goss is
[01:19:10] outlining where
[01:19:12] Brian's lab
[01:19:14] future lab maybe in this new
[01:19:16] eagles nest
[01:19:18] and I really like the fact
[01:19:20] that Dottie
[01:19:22] here also
[01:19:24] in trying to explain
[01:19:26] that it's not just politics
[01:19:28] the stuff that's going on in the media
[01:19:30] and in the press
[01:19:32] that's all just politics
[01:19:34] and I don't pay that any
[01:19:36] hoot. And she just
[01:19:38] gives the story of
[01:19:40] this Yiddish theatre with her
[01:19:42] and her father which is really good
[01:19:44] and talks about the destruction
[01:19:46] of that
[01:19:48] I think it's
[01:19:50] earlier than that he's
[01:19:52] but you know by anti-Jewish groups
[01:19:54] as I say you know
[01:19:56] Europe was rife with
[01:19:58] the
[01:20:00] people in the US and
[01:20:02] when she lived in New York
[01:20:04] and had the
[01:20:06] all but that came over
[01:20:08] as well I suppose on that
[01:20:10] journey across the Atlantic
[01:20:12] and she just reflects back
[01:20:14] that you know some men create
[01:20:16] some men destroy
[01:20:18] to Brian who is kind of
[01:20:20] wobbling
[01:20:22] and I do like in that moment
[01:20:24] that Brian comes across
[01:20:26] and I think
[01:20:28] that's the point of really
[01:20:30] valid and they respect my
[01:20:32] intelligence and
[01:20:34] respect my science
[01:20:36] unlike you and you kind of think
[01:20:38] is he on their side does he
[01:20:40] believe what they're saying
[01:20:42] but it's so quick afterwards
[01:20:44] where he goes please don't let them kill me
[01:20:46] yeah wait you see you realize
[01:20:48] he's just terrified. I think
[01:20:50] you know just the reference to
[01:20:52] him going to get a you who I
[01:20:54] like yeah
[01:20:56] but it's an indication of how
[01:20:58] young Brian is he's the kind of
[01:21:00] person that won't go and get himself
[01:21:02] a coffee won't go and get
[01:21:04] himself a strong drink he'll go and
[01:21:06] get himself a you who so that's why
[01:21:08] the reaction that you get from the
[01:21:10] us like oh my god this kid is
[01:21:12] involved with the Nazis he's got all
[01:21:14] this pressure on him he's in college
[01:21:16] and look how young this kid is
[01:21:18] yeah it's just that little moment
[01:21:20] I think as well it's the
[01:21:22] thing that you're into hiding
[01:21:24] she does have that nice joke
[01:21:26] about nothing's happened around
[01:21:28] the the topics for a million
[01:21:30] years when the last
[01:21:32] wooly mammoth sort of
[01:21:34] went into it or whatever
[01:21:36] or save us to the tiger
[01:21:38] but also you know again
[01:21:40] this instance in the carway
[01:21:42] puts away his gun in seeing
[01:21:44] this collection of people
[01:21:46] from her goss and
[01:21:48] Kurt to Molly's mother
[01:21:50] and councilman towns and
[01:21:52] that you know
[01:21:54] Mitchen has got smarts he's
[01:21:56] really good and I love
[01:21:58] how this character is
[01:22:00] absolutely absolutely
[01:22:02] Chris that it for your
[01:22:04] final that's it that's it really
[01:22:06] is yeah I just can't wait to see
[01:22:08] where we go from here and
[01:22:10] that's literally seven days away
[01:22:12] absolutely absolutely um only the
[01:22:14] thing that we haven't really talked
[01:22:16] about in the episode is just the
[01:22:18] one just a few and I just thought
[01:22:20] it was interesting might have been
[01:22:22] a little bit heavy handed for me
[01:22:24] but I did think it was
[01:22:26] interesting you know having that
[01:22:28] moment because it's exactly
[01:22:30] the thing that Matteo didn't want to hear
[01:22:32] and I suppose if you've got a squeeze in there
[01:22:34] that she's now part of this religious cult
[01:22:36] effectively um it's a good way to get
[01:22:38] the to get it started where she kind of
[01:22:40] goes I'd not be anyone here for you
[01:22:42] that's also gotten heaven here for you
[01:22:44] it feels like something she would say
[01:22:46] in her face um it feels like
[01:22:48] she may pass that on to Matteo
[01:22:50] just saved her remembering in that one
[01:22:52] session she had with Sister Molly
[01:22:54] she feels saved and feels
[01:22:56] like God is there for us so it does feel natural
[01:22:58] for her to bring that up quickly
[01:23:00] it did feel heavy handed in the
[01:23:02] episode but it does lead to
[01:23:04] I thought a really interesting conversation
[01:23:06] um this idea of the
[01:23:08] incorporation of uh
[01:23:10] of Santa Morita into
[01:23:12] Catholicism has always been a question
[01:23:14] um always been questioned by religious
[01:23:16] people this idea of people
[01:23:18] bringing parts of their
[01:23:20] religions and incorporating them into
[01:23:22] Christianity and Catholicism so that
[01:23:24] they can call themselves Catholic
[01:23:26] or Christians while still having pagan
[01:23:28] beliefs we have at an island quite
[01:23:30] a lot with some of the elements of
[01:23:32] pagan beliefs that were in Ireland
[01:23:34] being brought and incorporated into the
[01:23:36] Catholic and Christian faiths over here
[01:23:38] so I thought it was interesting seeing
[01:23:40] Maria give out to Josephina for
[01:23:42] police church saying that's not even
[01:23:44] you can't call yourself a Catholic anymore
[01:23:46] you should be going to our priest
[01:23:48] and Josephina echoing exactly the
[01:23:50] same sentiment back at Maria going
[01:23:52] how can you go to the church
[01:23:54] get confession when you don't even pray
[01:23:56] for the pray to God when you need something
[01:23:58] you go out into the shed and pray to Santa
[01:24:00] Morita when you need something
[01:24:02] how can you call yourself a Catholic so
[01:24:04] I thought it was a really good argument
[01:24:06] about the religion that they both
[01:24:08] are supposedly share that both
[01:24:10] church and now both of them have
[01:24:12] completely different things that are
[01:24:14] connected to that central religion so
[01:24:16] just thought it was an interesting
[01:24:18] discussion this episode
[01:24:20] yeah I'm right there with you it's
[01:24:22] going to be interesting the one thing i will
[01:24:24] say is um
[01:24:26] materials overreaction
[01:24:28] yeah to uh Josephina
[01:24:30] is just
[01:24:32] crazy yeah I think so too
[01:24:34] I mean I'm a little
[01:24:36] I mean
[01:24:38] in the best sense he is
[01:24:40] literally self-isolating when he
[01:24:42] doesn't need to um it's kind of like um
[01:24:45] he's over reacting
[01:24:47] yeah well
[01:24:49] too soon um but I suppose
[01:24:52] it's just this self-enforcement
[01:24:56] and isolation
[01:24:58] from
[01:25:00] of it from his family
[01:25:02] it seems I think it's
[01:25:04] I think you're right it feels a little
[01:25:06] extreme and over the top in
[01:25:08] having a conversation with the sister
[01:25:10] that he would then run off
[01:25:12] and decide that he can never speak to
[01:25:14] her ever again in the same
[01:25:16] sense that he's obviously
[01:25:18] applied that logic to his mom when she
[01:25:20] came to see him
[01:25:22] and Tiago I can understand more
[01:25:24] in a sense um
[01:25:26] because of
[01:25:28] um the
[01:25:30] yeah because he's a detective
[01:25:32] it's growing up as well we've gone through a lot more in his life than
[01:25:34] Mateo has and you know there are elements again of the religion
[01:25:37] side to that story as well with Ryo remember Ryo pulled off the cross
[01:25:41] off his neck saying to him he can no longer believe in that
[01:25:44] yes and I believe in the religion
[01:25:46] behind the petuchos that she has talked to him about um
[01:25:50] you know there is that I kind of get the reaction you know
[01:25:53] that it that is the thing um I kind of
[01:25:56] I laughed slightly or smile slightly at the reaction
[01:25:59] the line that Mateo says which is
[01:26:01] I didn't come here from make believe I don't
[01:26:03] only hear about this god thing that you believe in I wanted my sister
[01:26:07] kind of smirked at the way that he responded to or but
[01:26:09] you're right they're kind of running away and
[01:26:11] getting it out of there but I think just to incorporate
[01:26:13] him in there you probably needed a scene um
[01:26:15] to make sure that everybody knows that Mateo is still
[01:26:17] hercing out there he's still not
[01:26:20] a trained killer yet he's not going out
[01:26:23] in the war against the police he still
[01:26:25] is very sorry for what he did
[01:26:27] and didn't realize that he could
[01:26:30] murder someone the way that he did with Riley
[01:26:32] yeah um so I think it's it's good that you have that little moment in there
[01:26:35] and if you can't use anybody out in the family because they're all going
[01:26:37] through their own things apart from uh
[01:26:40] roll who's just listening to baseball on the cage
[01:26:42] you might as well use the right issue between
[01:26:44] Josephine and uh and uh Mateo
[01:26:47] yeah I'm trying to figure out what the next steps on this chess board is
[01:26:53] um and I don't know if I want to go too far and
[01:26:56] try and figure it out myself but at the same time
[01:26:59] I actually just tell me the story yeah
[01:27:01] let's get on with it i feel like there's a few things in this episode that kind
[01:27:04] you know the coyote thing I thought was interesting
[01:27:06] after noticing something was going on in the first four or five episodes
[01:27:09] we now have an explanation for why it's in there so
[01:27:12] i feel like i might get a few other things like that towards the end of the
[01:27:14] season that will explain things we're seeing now so
[01:27:16] that's probably why i don't want to predict
[01:27:18] what's gonna happen wouldn't think i did really like um
[01:27:22] and that's just going on to note sesabose one thing i did particularly
[01:27:25] like was the story that that Maria tells to
[01:27:28] the two boys tarman and his brother abouche
[01:27:31] handsling grethal remember them they got the they found their way home and
[01:27:35] tarman instantly responds with yeah but they killed the witch before they got
[01:27:38] their way home indicating that he may possibly have a battle coming up with
[01:27:43] one of the might as they may have to kill i took that as well
[01:27:46] they may have to kill um yes Elsa uh all frank um
[01:27:51] but uh yeah that that's pretty cool actually
[01:27:54] and also interesting to choose you know handsling grethal i think you mentioned
[01:27:58] burial of of Elsa's um husband was in a very
[01:28:03] german folklore of very german story book kind of setting like
[01:28:08] handsling grethal so interestingly chose that to kind of explain the situation
[01:28:11] of as mother going away so yeah there you go that was my note
[01:28:16] nothing from my set great no i've just got a few notes um
[01:28:19] i mentioned about the coyote and just i didn't mention that the good evil on
[01:28:25] the good side of this shape shifting is around
[01:28:29] mariamont and music and passion and on the dark side it's more
[01:28:34] mischief and pranks but that ones that can get brutal and bloody which is
[01:28:38] kind of interesting um the well exactly the
[01:28:43] spanish-american's war of 1898 because i can't
[01:28:48] like this that dotty is speaking of her past
[01:28:53] which is actually in is like the 1850s and 60s effectively as a kid
[01:29:00] moving up or because i actually talked about uh
[01:29:05] providing bombs in chicago and i um i can't remember what the name of that was
[01:29:09] now but it was to do with one of the big
[01:29:12] labor disputes where the police were against the unions and it kind of helped
[01:29:16] inform labor relations in chicago but it ended off with kind of
[01:29:20] molotov cocktails or you know bombs and it was fairly violent
[01:29:25] but uh this that spanish-american civil war is from 1898
[01:29:31] and began effectively with the americans coming in and intervening
[01:29:37] in the Cuban war of independence uh between the Cubans and the spanish
[01:29:42] and and uh effectively this led to the spanish relinquishing sovereignty
[01:29:49] of a Cuba victory for the us but they also ceded
[01:29:53] Puerto Rico in the same sense so it was like this whole
[01:29:56] emergence of a us uh predominance in the Caribbean region that kind of geopolitical
[01:30:01] thing um which obviously i think Puerto Rico is still
[01:30:05] and what do they call it um a unincorporated territory of the US
[01:30:12] um so it's not officially one of the states well
[01:30:15] so it's very like jersey or isle of man for the UK kind of trying to claim
[01:30:18] that that was a reason for it to not help the mate after a natural disaster
[01:30:23] yeah well like the there is that as well and the ryanland thing was in
[01:30:27] 1936 which was the remilitarization of the ryanland so after the world wall
[01:30:33] one it had been removed of all military um almost as a buffer because it uh
[01:30:39] onto to france and then uh hitlow basically walked
[01:30:44] all his troops back into it um so it was occupied by the allies but
[01:30:50] there was no fighting but hitlow marched his troops into the ryanland
[01:30:55] which was in kind of total contravention of the Versailles Treaty and of course
[01:31:00] it was the big industrial heartland of germany to help build various bits and
[01:31:06] bobs of the the military machine
[01:31:10] some fascinating history stuff that's uh let's incorporate into the show
[01:31:13] definitely i've only got one final note and that note was i've read my notes
[01:31:17] and it says friar took the hamster so i did have hamster
[01:31:20] written denomites and i thought i had guinea pig um that's it for guinea pigs are
[01:31:25] guinea pigs are a delicacy in is it Peru or Bolivia where they wrap them up in
[01:31:31] vine leaves uh hole yeah we don't know you get the teeth you got there
[01:31:37] is that even the teeth it's the bones there man there it's like crispy duck oh yeah
[01:31:42] well crispy i don't need the bones of my crispy duck because the skin's
[01:31:45] won't be crispy but you can if like you can do it where the bones are just
[01:31:50] like almost brittle yeah yeah wow okay tasty moving swiftly on gentleman i think
[01:31:56] that's how we wrap up our discussion of ways that you can eat a duck or a hamster
[01:32:01] yeah this has been your dreadful podcast but gentlemen rather than
[01:32:06] going into culinary delight let us discuss our final thoughts on this episode uh
[01:32:10] i'll tee it up first John what did you think of this episode
[01:32:15] i um i really like this episode um in fact it's it's really improved with our discussion
[01:32:21] and so i'm giving it i had it down as full but i'm gonna do just for the macabreness of it all
[01:32:26] is four and a half spinning dead hamsters out of five so that i suspect there'll be um
[01:32:33] you know blood forensics required for the ceiling from from this one um but uh yeah i
[01:32:40] i really like how and magta effectively cropped up in different locations with Maria
[01:32:48] and you have that final um sort of rousing sort of banishment from from Maria um to to magta
[01:32:56] and i kind of invoking the the the kings and queens were with the Aztec blood running through them
[01:33:02] in the same way that um magta did with mateo i thought was really good um and then
[01:33:10] i think uh just yeah having all these different little snippets you know dolly is like she's a
[01:33:16] walking history book and she's fascinating and i really love her uh and Maria is just a powerhouse
[01:33:23] um it is amazing and just having the coyote element kind of just explained a bit further as i say
[01:33:30] i really hope that she's kind of a shapefifter as well and turns into sort of a badass coyote to
[01:33:36] to sort of protect her pubs that's how you do uh misprediction for the rest of the series Chris
[01:33:43] exactly if you're gonna fail in misprediction fail big fail big i fail fast
[01:33:49] misprediction it's like misconjuniality but it's not something like that i loved all of this and i
[01:33:54] think yeah the whole michner a tiago and goss and brian and michner and dotty um everything
[01:34:04] them linking into um Alex and townsend and obviously now with ateliers coming to the table uh of
[01:34:13] the third Reich um it's just all really put into a really intriguing place and i i think um
[01:34:22] i think that's really really fascinating and then just the sheer terror of what would be disruptive
[01:34:28] enough for the likes of tom and trevver um in you know with his his dad bringing in this this lady
[01:34:36] that he burly knows and this kid that he doesn't particularly like into their home and his whole world
[01:34:45] being turned upside down from that but having his brother moved then out of his bedroom and just
[01:34:51] the creepiness that frank brings i mean these two child acts are really great actually i think
[01:34:56] they're fascinating i love the i love the stoicism of tom you know he does come across a bit as
[01:35:03] an adult in in kids uh in a kid's body but you know he just give it back to his dad he says i already
[01:35:11] have a mother and a brother is you know i don't want anymore and certainly not the likes of
[01:35:16] Elsa and frank um and i think hopefully they are both him and trevver are both hamsel and gratul
[01:35:26] and they're going to boil that which alive uh and invoke the spirit of friethuck as well
[01:35:34] the hamster that we have finally nailed down as a hamster well to stop it spinning we finally nailed
[01:35:42] friethuck down exactly so really really like this so yeah for and a half spinning dead hamsters out
[01:35:51] of five crystal uh what did you think of this episode i'm getting more and more uh pleasantly
[01:35:59] surprised by each episode i do believe that the the setting up this chessboard is making more sense to
[01:36:10] me and it's where i was previously getting somewhat annoyed by the i don't want to call a bloat but
[01:36:18] it was narrative narrative dissidents in a way that i was like okay i don't know where you're
[01:36:23] going with this like i liked i like to at least don't need to signpost it but you at least need
[01:36:29] to tell me kind of what the end direction will be aside from a prophecy about brother versus brother
[01:36:36] nation versus nation race versus race like yeah that that could say a lot that's basically world
[01:36:42] were two um so is it just that she's building more of war two who knows um i just the annoyance i have
[01:36:52] and the outside i can't wait for each episode i'm dying to see where they go with the last three
[01:36:56] three episodes three hours it's just the crafts yeah it's such an interesting story i just don't
[01:37:05] get it yeah and i'm like i'm hoping i'm hoping upon upon hopes that come episode nine
[01:37:15] we turn around and base the audience oh my god it was staring us right in the face this was amazing
[01:37:21] well done john this was the best setup the best story piece ever i just hope that's where it goes to
[01:37:29] it otherwise if it's set it's a setup purely for season two i'll it will take the overall
[01:37:36] arching season and the creation of what he's done down a bag in my opinion again i'm not a paid
[01:37:43] critic so what does my opinion care but we are here to tell this is your opinion gris we do have
[01:37:50] a podcast about the show so you're alive it's true it's true so this is also about the the man who
[01:37:55] has some pretty wild theories so let's not go down that my thoughts sometimes are crazy but overall
[01:38:01] i like this episode i just want i wish i could fast forward three hours to see where i am at the end
[01:38:08] but i want i'm looking forward to that journey and more excellent so your big culture Chris oh go away
[01:38:16] i'm not that i'm not that young say what say what say what
[01:38:26] so moving on to the other greyhair man in the room all three of us are guys slightly
[01:38:33] distinguished i'm silver foxes yeah but to the silverous fox of them all
[01:38:40] Derek what do you think is this only because i still haven't i'm going to go to the hairdresser's
[01:38:43] Chris that's all right yeah i think overall this is this is a good episode it's a good place
[01:38:49] setting episode for the season but i think if you if i look at the point that i chose for the
[01:38:54] episode to describe it and that's exactly where my head is at about the show at the moment
[01:39:01] if you looked at it without taking account of what's what the overarching storyline is
[01:39:06] the story of a guy trying to get a road build in la the story of a wife a guy who cheats on his wife
[01:39:13] and brings his lover in it to move into the house with his kids you know those those kind of
[01:39:17] storylines are pretty pedestrian they've been around in every type of show from soap operas to
[01:39:21] to science fiction movies you know um but viewing it through the idea of these manipulations will
[01:39:28] lead to a war a battle will lead to watch this demon might do wishes to happen with this city of la
[01:39:36] with this uh central point that's going on uh with all of the characters i think that's what
[01:39:41] elevates this show into something really interesting to watch every week so i think this episode
[01:39:48] really accomplished its job in getting us set up for the final battle at the end of this season and
[01:39:54] i think everything that's going on in the manipulations and seeing Maria trying to investigate
[01:39:59] her own mind why is she so heavily involved really did make this episode exciting and interesting
[01:40:04] and yes that final scene with Maria versus uh santa moris a rival of magda and then
[01:40:10] the disappearance of santa moris after the out of the two sisters battle or have their battle
[01:40:15] of wills and then magda versus maria is just stunning great great see really loved it fantastic um
[01:40:23] yeah i think we're all on the same page jencement i do believe it's time for a penny for your thoughts
[01:40:29] our feedback section where you are listeners right into us with your thoughts your feedback
[01:40:34] and everything in between civically on this episode so you don't forget if you want to be involved
[01:40:40] going forward you can send your thoughts to feedback at tvpodcastinstree.com or join us on our
[01:40:45] facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tv podcast industries and just make sure you put
[01:40:51] your comments into our spoiler post for that episode over on facebook we did get one piece of
[01:40:57] feedback on this episode so far which was from claire lafay who said love to love maria
[01:41:02] i want my very own outfit that rio wears and my final thoughts on the episode nathan lain is still
[01:41:08] amazing i love how the character has shown such darkness and such vulnerability there are a lot
[01:41:15] of actors and actresses that i admire but there's only a few that i really love to meet and he's one
[01:41:19] of them thank you claire for that feedback and yeah i'm right there with you on Nathan lain every
[01:41:26] show i'm seeing him in and even just watching his press coverage for this show on the likes of
[01:41:33] like Seth Meyers and Steve co-bearers i'm like i love you even more it will force me to go back
[01:41:39] and watch birdcage but i've avoided that one just because of the rob mulliams because i'm like
[01:41:44] i don't know if i'm ready to i know i know i will it's just one of those i have to go back but i
[01:41:51] jean haunt me this amazing i forgot it's jean haunt me nannis yes yes oh my god yeah
[01:41:58] yeah yeah i know what you mean christ they're watching someone as talented as rob mulliams after he's
[01:42:03] passed watching him and one of those kind of roles is always difficult isn't it yeah but it's
[01:42:08] well worth celebrating you know it's he's such a good talent and he's very good in a very different
[01:42:13] role for rob mulliams really good i'm great to see Nathan lain that as well but definitely i'm
[01:42:18] with Claire as well i think as every episode of this show goes on you know i would love to to meet
[01:42:28] and hear Nathan lain's thoughts i think he has done an amazing job of providing sort of that
[01:42:35] breadth and depth to this character and i think the same is it for for adriana baraza as well
[01:42:45] i've absolutely loved um there just how they have brought so much to
[01:42:53] and their character and with not that much screen time as well i think Nathan lain has now gotten
[01:42:59] quite a lot of it but i think at the start you know focusing on tiago and i think meria has been
[01:43:06] on the periphery a bit so that's the thing this this coming back and forth in different episodes
[01:43:13] depending on how much you have there i think um like they're the two i'm i'm reaching for
[01:43:20] and in this for sure i think they're they're amazing yeah definitely thanks so much for that
[01:43:25] Claire i'll agree with Claire she wants every egg fit owned by real and she wants to own all of
[01:43:31] those Claire does i want to own the egg fits by every guy in this show i don't know why
[01:43:35] we don't dress as well as these guys too i love the style in this show it's absolutely amazing
[01:43:41] 100% i want to just wear mag does leather
[01:43:44] yeah so big completely different just not in the la heat i can't imagine i would be
[01:43:51] i feel very sorry for i would be sort of have to be yanked out of that if i was put in it
[01:43:57] maybe maybe when it gets later on in the summer chris we can get you uh get you one of those dresses
[01:44:01] send it over to you get you take a photograph of uh of you in mag to dress yep i i i i
[01:44:06] too was 28 degrees temperature yeah just put me put me in a locked room i'll sweat it i'll do
[01:44:13] a few pounds there you go there you go as the podcast room is getting up to about 250 degrees
[01:44:18] let's move on to our next piece of feedback thanks for that again Claire um voicemail from Steve
[01:44:22] brand who Derek john and chris uh this is Steve this is for the latest episode of pinning dreadful
[01:44:29] i think it actually is episode seven this time uh we are barreling man fast towards the end and i'm
[01:44:37] uh i'm anxious to see what happens next but at the same time i don't want it in i love new content
[01:44:43] i love all the stuff that we're getting and so much happened in this episode i'm gonna watch it
[01:44:47] again tomorrow morning but i wanted to send this out just in case i don't get a chance to send
[01:44:51] something my initial kind of of thoughts so i uh i really loved that we we finally do get a little
[01:44:59] bit of the supernatural aspect at the end there when we see uh the grandmother kind of dispelling
[01:45:07] magda sending her away and we see santa marita walking away from her i'm not really sure exactly
[01:45:13] what happened there i'm gonna have to rewatch the episode to really get a clear idea um i love
[01:45:21] the fact that that mitsnir and it seemed to me like mitsnir had tiago convinced
[01:45:29] to just straight up murder those germans and and then of course they they pulled back when they
[01:45:35] saw towns and and alix show up at the at the restaurant but tiago was all in ready to
[01:45:42] to follow him into battle and uh after hearing about how his friends were killed and all that and uh
[01:45:49] i wonder if we are gonna see karts uh start splitting some throats because as towns and said
[01:45:55] he he told alix that she's cutthroat but maybe we need someone that can actually cut throats
[01:46:01] so we might see karts actually do some damage um i i don't know but a lot was set up in this in
[01:46:10] this episode we're seeing the the religion that uh josephina is starting to embrace going against
[01:46:18] her grandmother's wishes uh her mother's wishes i'm sorry and uh and then also we're seeing
[01:46:24] tiago's brother both his brothers kind of being affected so okay uh i can't wait to hear
[01:46:29] you guys thought talk to you later thanks so much see if uh yeah another another manipulizer
[01:46:35] in this episode with loose uh good good points like he does manipuliteago into going along with him
[01:46:40] and killing someone when two episodes ago he was completely shocked by the idea that matel would
[01:46:45] murder someone as well so um even at the beginning of the series i think he even spoke to
[01:46:49] louis about the fact that louis hadn't shot his gun very often in service uh and now a week or two
[01:46:54] into service uh he's being asked to shoot his gun yeah well i i think the the first of all thanks
[01:47:00] Steve um for the the feedback i think that there's that really nice um moment at the start and it kind
[01:47:09] of i think it kind of links Steve to the idea of josephina kind of rebelling and going to the temple
[01:47:16] rather than to um the the Catholic church and father nooners and and even taking up santa morse
[01:47:23] um but we have here molly rejecting her mother's advice by connecting back in with tiago
[01:47:31] maybe there's some ulterior motives now that we've seen her mom having uh dindens with the third
[01:47:37] rike but i you know that's kind of interesting but also i think we're set up here uh with tiago's
[01:47:45] mindset uh where he goes you know that there's have you ever done something where there's no right
[01:47:51] answer everything you do will be wrong you do something it's not a compromise it's not a mistake
[01:47:58] it's a sin um or it's just plain wrong and it's it's it's that aspect of what he did to protect
[01:48:07] matero and what will ultimately happen with dago and that's his mindset and then effectively
[01:48:13] michner connects it into that totally to um manipulate him uh into doing that um but then thankfully
[01:48:24] pulls back um as well uh it'd be so yeah it's a really interesting moment but i think that's
[01:48:31] seen at the start with molly uh really sets up uh kind of the mindset of tiago quite nicely um
[01:48:38] i think yep thank you so much for your feedback Steve um i can't say much more than the boys have
[01:48:44] said absolutely one other thing i will say is that uh i know what you mean Steve about new content
[01:48:50] i feel like i'm getting like some proper tv addict now when somebody tells me a new show is on
[01:48:55] and it hits me i watch the whole thing in a day and then i'm like oh no i've got to wait five months
[01:49:00] for new content uh we watched upload in one day uh on on uh amazon prime and then somebody said to us
[01:49:06] that's the new season of queer i was on and we watched five episodes of that yesterday and
[01:49:11] like i'm not holding on to the content like i should it it's like i've i should be hoarding it for
[01:49:16] to donate to myself over the next couple of months because i'm gonna eat three new episodes of
[01:49:20] this show and then that's it for a little while i'm not sure what the next big thing is other than
[01:49:24] the boys i think is coming um and the brother academy is coming during the summer
[01:49:28] was the only two things that i'm aware of up until like september well that's true and we watched more
[01:49:32] than five because um i was blubbing for at least sort of six or seven of the eight episodes
[01:49:40] that we watched of queer i and for sure yeah it was like i'd just gone no well pretty i
[01:49:48] like i've just gone to a funeral or something um
[01:49:56] the stories are the people that they're helping and the dresser uh and why can't they come to
[01:50:03] island and i just decided to do that but um yeah it was uh yeah it was very emotional
[01:50:10] they need to come to Ireland and sort me out they see if someone could put me on queer i for the
[01:50:15] straight guy they don't even call it queer i for the straight guy anymore don't they they call it
[01:50:18] queer i that's queer i know yeah okay yeah it's for everyone exactly yeah yeah it's it was
[01:50:24] the original that was queer i for the straight guy back in the nineties yeah yeah um as
[01:50:29] well as we've kind of finished talking about petty vet for one of the things i always noticed when
[01:50:32] we watch a new season of queer i is there's five of them there one guy gives them a little bit
[01:50:37] of uh a little bit of a hair crush one guy talks about that does their clothes and the guy helps them
[01:50:42] with their confidence what another guy helps them do their cooking and then the last guy bobby does
[01:50:48] their entire house and maybe their office and gives them a new car and sets up that business sets up
[01:50:53] their business for them and he gets about two minutes of every episode and everybody else gets like
[01:50:58] you know 20 or 30 minutes of the episodes and like bobby and his entire team have done a whole makeover
[01:51:04] show of the building in the house and he's ignored on the episode he just gets a couple of minutes at
[01:51:10] the end of it this is number five seasons he must be like can i have my own makeover show please
[01:51:14] can i have uh i'll make over people coming i say justice for bobby is coming yeah there you go
[01:51:21] anyway that's that's the right any other points about to penny dreadful before we go by the way
[01:51:26] thanks so much for the feedback clarin steve any other points of it the episode that we have
[01:51:30] where we go no i think i think that's it i think it's about time for a quick tipple before we head home
[01:51:36] yes it's the penny dreadful pub quiz and it's been a morning of heavy drinking just like tiago
[01:51:43] uh as we discuss uh putting away an innocent person for the crimes of your own brother so yes a
[01:51:49] real strong morning drink is required down at your local and this week's local is the uh dreadful
[01:51:58] pub quiz bar yes um so this week's question for all you intrapid pub quizzes is what plays does
[01:52:07] dotty minter recount from her performance days with her father at the yiddish theater
[01:52:13] what plays does dotty minter recount from her performance days with her father at the yiddish
[01:52:21] theater so she names a few there both with names and and without as well i think um so yes please
[01:52:29] answers to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com you can send them in on a episodic basis uh as we go
[01:52:37] through them or chuck them all in right at the end uh and submit them in time for a recap episode where
[01:52:43] we go over all things penny dreadful city of angels absolutely thanks so much for that John
[01:52:49] we enjoyed these questions each week you can get all the questions by going over to our website
[01:52:53] at tvpodcastindustries.com there's a tab there where you just go and see all the questions that we've
[01:52:57] asked so far this season if you missed any of them from our episodes thanks so much once again for
[01:53:02] joining us please stay subscribed to tvpodcastindustries if you want to contribute on it if you want to get
[01:53:07] access to our captain america the winter soldier podcast go over to patreon.com slash tv podcast
[01:53:13] industries or of course just share the podcast with any of your friends because sharing the podcast
[01:53:18] is sharing the love. Yes thank you so much obviously we'd love to have you as a patreon because
[01:53:25] unfortunately we have just lost one hamster uh we need to replace him to keep the lights on
[01:53:30] uh as john said we have an army of hamsters in wheels keeping electricity running here
[01:53:35] but uh if you can't sure as you heard at the top of this episode we had a great review when
[01:53:41] I read us uh and even five stars on your podcast platform of choice because obviously that
[01:53:47] will always help us yeah thank you so much and i look forward to speaking you all again next episode
[01:53:52] yet thanks so much for all the support uh fellow dreadfuls it's really great to get back
[01:53:59] we'll be back next week with penny dreadful city of angels episode eight hide and seek
[01:54:09] Chris will you help me be a good brother
[01:54:15] Chris can i get into bed with you
[01:54:18] well that's different question i'm not known all three of our your podcast host everybody to jump
[01:54:26] into a bed and stare and kill a gerbil hamster rodent i think bye everybody see you next time
[01:54:34] thanks so much for joining us fellow dreadfuls really great to have you on board for this
[01:54:39] episode keep watching keep listening and remember keep spinning
[01:54:45] we all right bye bye
[01:55:09] you
[01:55:17] no i think i think that's it i think it's about time for a quick tipple before we head home
[01:55:23] yes exactly it is the penny dreadful pub quiz it is early morning
[01:55:30] a little
[01:55:38] i'm tripping in my words today i instead of symbolism i went to
[01:55:43] Derek i was like oh it's simbally
[01:55:47] the simbally of the curiosity and the episode is simply it looks like you're simple but it's
[01:55:56] simply yes well and two days we have done over five hours of podcasting so i totally understand
[01:56:03] why why brain you don't have it might be a little fuzzy today so let's go