Daredevil Born Again Episode 7 Review

[00:00:00] This is the Daredevil Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We're back for Daredevil Born Again Episode 7 Art for Art's Sake. How becoming a true self can be scary. It's like you always say, we can't hide from ourselves. It's only when we embrace who we are we can truly be free. Tell me about that drawing.

[00:00:26] You already know, Dr. Clint. I can see it in your face. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is a good thing. There are no more secrets between us. Is that my true self? Passion, please.

[00:00:51] I know what you're thinking, Dr. Clint. I have only one question on your mind right now. Can I make it to the door in time?

[00:01:19] Welcome back, fellow defenders, to TV Podcast Industries for our Daredevil coverage. We are on to the seventh episode of Daredevil Born Again, Art for Art's Sake, and I'm one of your hosts, Derek. Hello there, fellow defenders. Yes, welcome back to the Defenders Podcast or the Daredevil Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. I am one of your other hosts, John. Yep, just the two of us here this week. Chris has had to take a day off because he's not feeling very well,

[00:01:47] so he'll be fine for next week, but he thought it would be a bit silly for him to join the podcast this evening as he's not feeling well. Yes, he's sick, so we all send him best wishes and get well soon. Christoph. I'm really hoping he'll be feeling better before the podcast even gets out there, so don't worry. He's just feeling a little under the other. Yeah, exactly. But fellow defenders, remember this will be a spoiler-filled discussion of episode seven of Daredevil Born Again.

[00:02:44] Mm-hmm. And reply to one of our spoiler posts over on our group at facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash TV Podcast Industry. Absolutely, and that email address will be back at tvpodcastindustries.com. It's the same address you send your quiz answers to. We'll have the next question in our Josie's Bar quiz coming up later in the podcast. We certainly will.

[00:03:08] Yeah, and if you missed any of the questions from the beginning of the season, you can pop on over to the website at tvpodcastindustries.com, go to pub quizzes, and you'll see all the questions up there for the Daredevil Born Again pub quiz. And if you get all the questions right, you could be in with a chance of getting your hands on some Daredevil Born Again goodies. Absolutely. Yes, let us get into the therapist session from hell. Derek, who gave us what, where, when, how, why, and if?

[00:03:36] Okay, I don't know whether I have the answer to all of those. What I do have the answer to is who directed and wrote the episodes. Well, exactly. Or maybe what if Muse had been in longer in the show? Yeah, that would have been nice. That would have been nice. We're not going to reveal that just yet, our feelings about the episode. But yes, I would love to have seen Muse for a lot longer in the series. And the director of this episode was David Boyd, who directed episode six, Excessive Force, who we talked about last week on that episode.

[00:04:02] And the episode was written by Jill Blankenship, who also wrote episode three of the show, which we mentioned her credits and what she'd done in the past as well. What a great surname. I like that. It's Blankenship. It's good, isn't it? Yeah, I've never heard of it before. It's quite German. It feels a bit German, yes, it does. But maybe because thinking of like... Maybe Dutch. Well, I was thinking like Urship or like Zeppelin type thing. Okay, very good. Or Blimp. The Blankenship.

[00:04:32] Blinkenship, yes. Blanken Blimpenship. All aboard the Blankenship to see what she's written for this episode. Blinken Blanken Blimpenship. Great name. It is. Just to say this is the final episode of the season that is not credited to Dario Skardapane, the showrunner that came on board to retool Daredevil Born Again. He's got the credits on the last two episodes along with one of the other writers as well. So he guides the ship into its final destination for the end of Daredevil Born Again. But this one is a Jill Blankenship.

[00:05:02] So, John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for episode seven of Daredevil Born Again? Art for art's sake. Sure. As Angela Del Toro recovers from the attack by Muse, she tells Matt Murdock and the police that she was saved by Daredevil and gives them the direction to Muse's lair. Inspector Kim reveals all this information to Murph Fisk and informs him they suspect a troubled young man named Bastion Cooper.

[00:05:30] Across the city, Bastion is in session with Dr. Heather Glenn, where he reveals that she is the reason he has been able to embrace his true nature as Muse and knocks her unconscious. Meanwhile, acting on information from Angela, Matt traces Muse to her office through some of his paintings. They fight and Heather shoots and kills the serial killer.

[00:05:52] But at a press conference afterwards, Murph Fisk gives credit to the task force, claiming they are the real heroes that saved the day. And Daniel Blake convinces B.B. Uruk to stick with the story as payment for the access she's received to the mayor's office. Elsewhere, the leader of the tracksuit mafia, Luca, discusses a change of leadership with Vanessa.

[00:06:17] Pretending to be on his side, Vanessa allows Luca to approach Wilson Fisk while he is in a restaurant. But aware of the situation, Buck Cashman kills Luca instead. Now we did take a few creative leaps with that last paragraph because we're not 100% sure of how that all worked out with Vanessa and with Wilson Fisk and with Buck.

[00:06:38] So a couple of leaps there that Vanessa and Wilson are still on the same side and that Buck's working for Vanessa and killed Luca instead of allowing him to kill Kingpin. I think the openness of it is great. Yes, definitely. And I love it. I love the fact that it's given more impetus and sort of that openness is exaggerated by immediately after the attempted hit on him.

[00:07:08] And Wilson Fisk says, call Vanessa and see if she wants anything brought back from the restaurant. Exactly. Exactly, yeah. But almost to say that and tell her that I'm alive and so on because her attempt at regime change has failed effectively. Exactly. Or equally, you know, because she's been a trustworthy lieutenant and my wife. Yeah. You know, so the openness is great. Love it.

[00:07:36] Love it that there's this sort of doubt or not over Vanessa. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Exactly. Will we get into our top five case notes, John? Definitely. Let us get into case note number one. So yeah, our first case note, Angela's guidance. This is about Angela Del Toro at the beginning of the episode. It's more just about the fact that it's still pushing her towards eventually becoming a vigilante, I think, from the conversation she has with Matt where she's in recovery in the hospital.

[00:08:05] She doesn't want to give any details to the police because the police won't care. They didn't care about her uncle. Why would they care about finding Muse? She's, but Matt is saying to her, you know, maybe if you give me the details, maybe somebody else will take care of it. It doesn't necessarily have to be the police. Kind of, you know, shining that light on, you know, your uncle was White Tiger. He was a vigilante. Maybe there's another vigilante out here that would help, but I may be able to get the information to them, you know? Yeah, exactly. Which is really interesting.

[00:08:32] And, you know, it feels like he's very close to going, you know I'm Daredevil, right? You know, it's almost like saying the other vigilante, you know, the one that saved you in that situation, he might get the information through. He may be able to help instead of the police. Yeah, no, like I really like that Angela provides this sort of additional layers of information that Matt asks her about around, you know, is there anything specific, anything there?

[00:08:58] And she just layers in about this artwork that he, the sketches that he's been doing. Yeah. And, you know, and that piques the interest then of Daredevil there. And so it kind of invites him, it forces him to go back to the scene where he had taken out Muse, but Muse had escaped. And also, like, while Angela doesn't want to really give the police much help or information, I mean, she still does.

[00:09:28] And the police also make their way to Muse's lair. Yeah. So I kind of, I like this interplay then of Daredevil going to, back to the underground base of Muse. Yeah. And whilst the police are there as well. So I like that he's kind of slinking around.

[00:09:51] I kind of wish they had done some form of visualization of him running his hands over the painting. Yeah. Now, or the sketch, it worked because it was a painting and it was obviously done in some kind of acrylic. So it was raised and he would be able to sort of figure out sort of at least the boundary or whatever.

[00:10:18] But, you know, as Chris was discussing last week and yourself, like about in the comics, he can actually read newspapers on the basis of his own heightened senses.

[00:10:58] Yeah. And he can't read newspapers without them being in Braille, for example. And him actually being able to run his fingers over a painting and translate that impression he has to the face of his girlfriend. Out of all of the many faces he may have touched over the years. Yeah. It's just a little bit of an extra leap that's adding in the comic book superpowers to Matt, I think. I don't think, for me, I felt that Marvel Netflix did it better because you had that kind of, the visualization of it.

[00:11:28] I'd agree, yeah. Like I remember them zooming in and then blurring out, having the, you know, the thing that was crystal clear in focus and then everything else blurry. And I thought the Marvel Netflix show really leaned into the fact that he had superpowers.

[00:11:44] Because this, I think, it's unsaid visually from sort of CGI or an effect because he's there just running his hand over it. And that's fine. Yeah. You know, but I like the fact still that he did that. And I think it works because you can see the raised element of that picture. Of the last one.

[00:12:13] But he is able to read the other ones as well is the point. Agreed. And I suppose we'd probably disagree then because I think this is something that they never showed in the Netflix show, him being able to look at a picture. You know, that's essentially what he's doing here, using his other senses. He's looking at a picture. They never really showed that in the Netflix show that I can remember, of course. There's a lot of episodes there. Maybe there was another moment there. I thought there was a real visual thing on it.

[00:12:40] Yeah, that's kind of interesting because I would have thought this is something new that they've introduced in Disney+. And I kind of almost feel that they've used it as a way of shortening down the path or the time it takes Daredevil to find Muse, effectively. So he's able to look at a painting. It happens to be of his girlfriend who he's touched the face of. And he's able to connect the two things together. So he's able to find out where Muse is. He suddenly realizes he's with Heather.

[00:13:06] So he knows exactly where Muse is and goes to find him in the office immediately afterwards. So I just thought it was quite interesting that they would have taken this little step here. And it's almost just to tie the story quicker together. So he doesn't have to investigate a huge amount more. He's able to use this power that I didn't think we'd seen before to be able to connect the two things together. So it's an interesting choice here.

[00:13:30] Yeah, I mean, I guess as well, at least what we get here as well is some, you know, the police doing their detective work. There's a bit of cloth that's bloodstained that they pick out, which until back in Fisk's office, we don't really get a sense of the importance of that. And but yeah, certainly I like the fact that whilst he's in there, the police are kind of also investigating, trying to get clues of their own.

[00:13:56] And but I also just like the fact then that he does bump into Officer Powell as Fisk has actually sent. And I guess with the exception of Detective Kim has sent the new task force that he created at the end of the last episode.

[00:14:17] And so Daredevil does bump into Officer Powell, who then he kind of knocks out with his Billy club. Yeah, it's really good. And we move on from Angela's guidance from our case note number one, because we want to talk about Fisk and the task force a little bit in our next case note. Yeah, let's get on to our case note number two. Didn't have any idea what to call this case note, but it really kind of kicks off with Fisk's anger at the return of Daredevil.

[00:14:48] To me, I think it's a great opening scene where we have Fisk looking out the window and you've got his two henchmen or lapdogs behind him. You've got Buck and you've got Daniel behind him and Fisk looks out the window and goes, what do you see when you look at this window? And Daniel's first response is Starbucks and Buck says voters.

[00:15:07] And Daniel instantly copies him saying voters just showing how quick they can suck up to Fisk because Buck realized it was actually a rhetorical question and asks Fisk, what does he see when he looks out the window? And effectively, it's all about Wilson Fisk explaining to them where he sits in this situation. He sees outside that window that there is fear outside and he wants to turn that to his advantage. He wants to be the one to protect the city of New York.

[00:15:36] And now with Daredevil back, everything has been thrown on its head effectively, which I just love this perspective of Wilson. And we hear more about it as the episode goes on. We hear that he thinks of Daredevil as being the person that put tons and tons of blue collar millionaires out of work because all they were doing was working with the greatest industry in the world. Fisk's underground criminal enterprise.

[00:16:02] And Daredevil had to stick his nose in and had to beat all of these blue collar millionaires out of their money and put them in prison and take away their source of income. How dare he? But just what a great perspective to hear from Wilson Fisk. Yeah, no, I really like this. You know, how, you know, it's his pent up frustration and anger.

[00:16:24] And I guess, in a sense, his seething nature for ultimately, I'm guessing, revenge is really what the undertones of this. Because ultimately, it's a bit tit for tat because, well, he took down my criminal empire, which I took 10 years to build up. You know, vigilante is righteousness, pulled it down without due process.

[00:16:53] You know, and he vents this frustration, this anger. In a sense, that shackled element for Fisk to book. And kind of follows that up with, you know, I have the responsibility to protect the city from people outside of the law. And again, it is, you know, having learned that it is Daredevil that has rescued Angela.

[00:17:21] You know, he's angry that he's back. Maybe he feels like it is a betrayal from the conversation that was had in the diner. Back at that time, yeah. But equally, you know, it's what that's leaning into for them both, I guess.

[00:17:46] Because Fisk is becoming Fiskier through, you know, as the season goes through. Even in office at the mayor's offices, you know. So, I think, yeah, no, this was good. I also like then how after, you know, being down in Muse's sort of underground lair,

[00:18:11] you have then Detective Kim coming in later, a little bit later here. And effectively bringing a bit of detective work, actually, to this rare fabric. I like how she breaks this down, you know, that it's such a rare fabric. It's only sold in one place. And there were only 12, you know, buyers of this fabric.

[00:18:39] We've gone to 11, and there's one left, and that's Bastian Cooper. And I like, actually, how this is being done in parallel with Bastian Cooper at Heather's practice as he's going through a therapy session. Certainly around the taekwondo element where you kind of, in the end, are left with no doubt that it is the same person that they're talking about,

[00:19:08] both Detective Kim and who Heather is actually talking to. And also that there are troubling signs from his past when he was much younger of people going missing, even before his murderous killing spree. So I like this. I also like, you know, Fisk asking Detective Kim, sort of inquiring about Daredevil being down there, you know, what did they find? But ultimately, Fisk saying, I'll take it from here,

[00:19:36] yeah, effectively leaving her hanging there because he's going to pass this now to the vigilante task force. Yeah, it's an interesting one. It's almost like as if Detective Kim is working for Fisk when she passes over that information, isn't it? Yeah. You know, she's Cherry's former partner. She's worked as a detective for many, many years. She's now the lead detective. We saw her in the bank heist episode as being quite a lead detective. And here she is going straight to the mayor's office to give him all the details about who Bastion is, who the suspect is, that they're on the trail from you.

[00:20:06] And he just kind of takes the file and goes, well, I'm going to take point on this through my task force team. Get out of here, basically. Which I don't think happens very often for detectives who are working a serial killer case. No, I don't think so. They're not very often kicked off when the mayor takes over. So, an interesting moment for her. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it does. It seems like she's using the infrastructure of the New York Police Department and then effectively

[00:20:33] all that intel, all that is being used then towards the vigilante task force for a particular reason. I mean, it is literally Fisk using the power granted to him by his office and the infrastructure

[00:20:53] of power, whether that's police, fire, city garbage, that he is using that in order to sort of do what he needs to do. You know, it kind of harks back to that conversation he had with Vanessa in the last episode where he's saying about how he has to think differently about how he uses what is available to him

[00:21:22] in the office of mayor, which is different from being the kingpin. But he can use it for the same ends. But it's a different thought process and different decisions in order to get the same outcome. Yeah, yeah. And it's really interesting on the other side of the coin, I suppose, everything that's going on with Matt in his law practice. You know, his partner there, McDuffie, is saying that she hasn't seen Matt for days. She can't get in contact with him about the massive workload that he has.

[00:21:51] So, he's kind of losing her and the firm in one sense. And he's also having problems with Cherry. Cherry now knows that Daredevil's back on the street and is telling him and is challenging him and is telling him, I'm not going to be able to do the work for you that you want me to do if you put back on the mask, effectively. So, on one side, Fisk is getting stronger with the people that are around him. He's got a whole task force at his command. He's got the sycophants working for him directly.

[00:22:17] And he's got Detective Kim coming in and giving him all the information about an ongoing investigation. Whereas Matt's side of the house is all kind of falling apart a bit. Not only that, he had a bit of a fight with Heather in the morning before she went off to her session for the day. She joins him in the shower and finds out that he's covered in bruises and bleeding from the previous night. And she challenges him on it, saying, what are you doing that's causing all of these bruises? And Matt has a really weird response to her.

[00:22:47] He says, sometimes everything in my life at the moment doesn't feel real. And it seems like he's almost pushing Heather away. Heather takes that to mean the relationship he has with her isn't real. Even though both of them say they love each other to each other. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty harsh. I mean, he says, to me, it feels fake, all of this. It kind of connects it a bit back to Foggy and all that.

[00:23:13] But it feels like he's trying to deflect away from her questions because she's asking, where did you get the bruises from? And he's kind of like, well, you know, I bump into things. I fall over. It's my reality. But he then kind of, you know, he kind of compares his current situation to his old life. And it's almost to try and avoid the questions and then comes out with this really kind of

[00:23:41] harsh sentence of, you know, to me, what I have now feels fake. And as you say, like their relationship. And I mean, in a sense, I think she doesn't really she doesn't take the bait to sort of not then speak to him or whatever. She's she takes it on the chin and realize, you know, because she's a therapist. So she's trying to work through it rather than immediately jump to conclusions.

[00:24:10] But it's really, yes, pushing away. And you get that sense throughout the whole of this, like whether it's he's not he's not talking to Cherry about what he's doing and becoming daredevil. He's not giving his legal partner and McDuffie the time that she needs.

[00:24:33] She knows that something is happening and that he's not actually doing all the casework that he should be doing, at least not for the last. But I mean, he's only just like that evening gone into the daredevil suit. I mean, he's done the little investigation around the Punisher. So, you know, again, I just feel this could have been signaled a bit more through some of the earlier episodes.

[00:25:01] And it's a bit like with the with this episode, I think, in general. A lot of things were thrown at you really quickly and actually closed out very quickly, such as Muse. And I guess we've come to that in our next case note. But this is another one of those where it was like, you know, McDuffie had kind of fallen off the show a bit in a sense after the first two.

[00:25:29] And then all of a sudden she's asking these questions and it's like, you know, that's just kind of suddenly reared up, reared up. And even though it hadn't been telegraphed in any way beforehand. And it's literally he's only done one night in the daredevil suit. So has he really been giving up or, you know, neglecting his casework? I don't think he has. Yeah. You know, in that sense. So I don't know.

[00:25:59] Yeah, it's it's it is one of those odd ones. The time is truncated 100 percent truncated in this episode. You really feel it because even the investigation that Detective Kim is talking about with Fisk, you're kind of going, well, hang on a second. You put that over to the lab and you got the results of 12 people you got in contact with with 11 of them, not the 12th. You have all the details about who this chief suspect is. And you left an hour ago. So, you know, the forensics alone, a chain of evidence of something like that would be weeks, you know.

[00:26:29] OK, it could be expedited, but then equally. And probably is, you know, the no red tape. Yeah, I know. Mayor is responsible for this. It's it's it's a fragment of cloth with no discernible identifier. So they have to analyze this. And then it's rare. So it's like, OK, what are all the textile shops in New York? Go to them. Do they sell it? If they do, who did they sell it to? So this is something that is all kind of speeded up. And I get it. It's for the show.

[00:26:58] But yeah, it's all very truncated. It is. It is. So I suspect originally in the script, this probably took place over a few days, if not a week or so. And over that time, we would have seen Daredevil unable to make it to certain cases, that kind of stuff. Because you're right, that does seem to come out of nowhere with a way of bringing McDuffie back in where she's going. I've been able to get two minutes at math for ages now. And you're kind of going, well, for one day, I haven't been able to get two minutes with him.

[00:27:26] But most other days he's there and has been working late nights as well with you by his side. So so that passage of time seems to be kind of missing in this episode. But what isn't missing is is Muse. Will we get on to our case note number three and talk a little bit about the session? Yes. Let us get into case note number three. Yes. Bastian in session with Dr. Heather Glynn. Yeah.

[00:27:49] I mean, for me, I did like how this I mean, I knew from when he was in the queue for her autograph back in episode one or two. Yeah. And that this was probably Muse and it transpires. It is. I'm glad we've gotten that out the way. And I think to avoid saying. Yeah.

[00:28:12] I mean, I really enjoyed this scene with how it interlaced with Detective Kim explaining the main suspect of all these murders to Fisk. And that it is Bastian Cooper. And, you know, in particular, as I mentioned in the previous case note around, you know, Bastian Cooper being, you know, this Taekwondo trained in Taekwondo competitive.

[00:28:38] And his coach has disappeared and was a troubled young man. I like how it intensifies as it goes back to Heather and the taking her notes. And I kind of then like the realization that Heather has. I mean, it comes across really well as she realizes that Bastian is Muse.

[00:29:05] And he's like, I mean, it's almost like classic Hannibal Lecter type talk. What you're thinking is whether you can make it to the door in time. And clearly she doesn't. Because then there's a bit of bloodletting that he is looking to do there. So I kind of really, really like this. I think my main thing is, oh, Bastian, oh, Muse, we hardly knew you. Yeah.

[00:29:34] Whatever about truncated, it's almost like one of those hard intercuttings of someone, almost like from Benjamin Button, where it's like it's the embryo. It's the semen going to the egg. It's the embryo. It's the birth. It's the growing up and playing. It's the school. It's graduating. It's the first job. It's the last job. It's retirement. It's old age is death. Yeah. And grand. Oh, hey, right. Okay. Get it. Life moves quickly. It's New York.

[00:30:03] Nobody has time for this stuff. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I like the fact that they play on the taekwondo. So you go, okay, that's why he's got skills up against Daredevil. And again, I really like the fight that happens in her office with them. When Daredevil finds his way there. You know, as he finds his way to Heather's office from those paintings in his lair. So, like, again, the fights between these two are really good.

[00:30:31] But ultimately, they are, you know, it's a second fight and his last fight as Heather kills him. And, yeah, I mean, that's my only, kind of my only issue here. It felt like two people that have been quite nominally treated in this series so far in Muse and indeed in Heather Glenn are suddenly given their firework moment.

[00:31:00] And it is literally that firework moment of bang and it's gone. Like, I'm kind of there going, to what extent will we see Heather Glenn after this? Other than maybe some kind of hospital scene afterwards. She's already been told she's coming home from the hospital the next day. Exactly. She's fine.

[00:31:18] So, like, I just don't know to what extent we're going to see it because I think it's going to focus on Fisk, the vigilante task force, and Matt Murdock having sort of taken back on the suit of Daredevil. Yeah.

[00:31:33] The only thing I'm wondering, I don't know why I thought this, but in the fight, because, again, Muse has got a knife, I felt some of Daredevil's blood was spilt in Heather's room. Okay. In her office, you know?

[00:31:55] So, I thought there was a moment where visually it kind of showed blood coming from Matt's arm, from Daredevil's arm, and into the room. And I think it's just because of the whole thing with the blood, with the fabric, and Detective Kim, that it's like, oh, well, if they do forensic sweep of this, they have Daredevil's blood. Well, maybe, yeah, yeah. We know how fast the detectives work in this city. Do you know what I mean?

[00:32:22] And I'm kind of like, there is a DNA profile there that can happen. And just because of the way the vigilante task force is conceived, and, of course, what comes and what follows from it, because they're there outside of Heather's practice and her office as this fight is happening. But I don't know. I feel like it might spell trouble for Daredevil and Matt Murdock. I agree.

[00:32:52] But there's a simpler jump to it as well. Fisk knows that Matt Murdock is Daredevil. Well, that's also true. They do have the conversation in the aftermath, I suppose, where one of the leads of the task force says he is 100% convinced that Daredevil was in this location. So he's certain that Daredevil was there. And that's what Riles fisk up even more. His anger gets more and more aggressive. So you kind of go, well, maybe he'll just send the task force around to Matt Murdock's house to take him out. He knows that that's who he is.

[00:33:22] This will be the first sacrifice of this task force will be to take out the vigilante known as Daredevil basically straight away. So that's entirely possible. But, yeah, I'd make the same point on this case note because it is a big bugbear for me about Bastion and how his reveal happens and how the reveal of Muse happens all in this episode. Because he is a very interesting character. He's a very striking character. He's very short-lived in the comic books as well. I think he only has six or seven appearances.

[00:33:52] I read them all just before this season. So he's not in comics for a very long time either. But he has a big impact in the comic books, two of the things that he does there. And the big one they took from that was the murals that they were putting on all the walls, which is what annoyed Fisk and what drove Fisk to follow up and try and find who Muse was. In the show, there's so much in the background. And in the show, this character of Bastion is so much in the background that we only got one moment with him where he goes and asks Heather for an appointment at the signing.

[00:34:21] And we knew instantly we were going, well, that guy's got to be coming back in the future. And then he does. He comes back for one episode. This one right here where he tells her everything. She finds out everything. So it's even kind of left open to interpretation as to whether this is the first session she's having with Bastion or whether this is the 12th session she's had with him. Was this supposed to be intercut in each episode? She would have a moment with Bastion where you learn more about him and he becomes really sympathetic.

[00:34:47] You find out or maybe the audience thinks he's not Muse because of the conversation he's been having with Heather. And then suddenly the reveal comes in episode seven that this person who's just this nice, normal kid from an upper class family that actually he is Muse and she's been pushing him towards taking on this mantle, taking on this mask. You know, because all of it coming in one conversation doesn't feel like a reveal as much as it feels like we need to get the story out and closed to move on to the next story.

[00:35:15] And it seems like her previous session. I mean, for me, I took it that this was session number X, whatever it was. Yeah, but they hadn't had that before, of course. Sorry. Yes. But it was now he was able to reveal himself and wanted her to share in his new real persona, hence the bloodletting. Yeah.

[00:35:42] In order to use her blood to do the next mural, effectively, to be a part of it, of what he is. But it's just, you don't, there's no sense of their previous rapport as, you know, doctor-patient relationship. There's no sense.

[00:36:01] I mean, it's also because his fully formed creep look is, like, even in that queue at her book signing, it's like the shifty eyes, the sort of downward. You know that's not just a normal person in the queue asking for help. Yeah. You know? You just knew. Yeah, but equally it's five episodes ago and it was only one quick moment and lots of people didn't notice in there.

[00:36:27] Yeah, but, like, I've heard podcasts where, you know, there's like, oh, it's going to be X, it's going to be Y, it's going to be, you know, Z. And it's like, clearly that's not happening. Yeah. It's clearly that person. Well, exactly, exactly. There was no chance it was ever going to be Daniel, for example. There was no chance it was ever going to be Bebe, Ulrich, you know. There's nobody else that could have been. Which is unfortunate because if you do this well, can I spoil a little bit of Wednesday?

[00:36:56] This is the other place we know this actor from, the actor who plays Bastion. His character in the TV show Wednesday on Netflix is this lovely guy. He seems to be a great love interest for the character of Wednesday. And then it's revealed later that he is a bad guy, right? Yeah. So, for four or five episodes ago, and, oh, that's a really nice guy. And then there's a reveal that he's a bad guy. Exactly. And that's exactly what it should have been here in this show. Maybe they thought, oh, well, he's just done that on Netflix. Maybe we need to cut out that role.

[00:37:26] Or maybe they just thought, well, we need to fit this in around all the other story that we're telling. Exactly. Or it's even just the fact that, you know, like, you had that Bebe Ulrich thing of her interviewing one of the graffiti artists. And that actually then in the end, she's following him doing all this work. You know, hence why then the two girls that get murdered but are able to find out when and where he's doing it.

[00:37:53] Because Bebe Ulrich has been following, you know, doing that segment. Yeah. And so you kind of think, oh, he's just a graffiti artist. Yeah. You know, unless you've seen the comics. And that, you know, or, you know, maybe, yes, he's doing this. It's not enough money. He's in with Dr. Glenn for another reason.

[00:38:12] But she's drawing out things that he's taking in a way to then, you know, even go deeper into this or something. Yeah. You know? But, yeah, you're right. It's just all thrown at you in this episode. And that's a shame. It is. It is. I would love to have seen more of that Muse story. And even the one that's presented on screen, I think you could have presented it over the course of a few episodes and just made him a more sympathetic character for a while.

[00:38:42] So the reveal that he is Muse would have been a bigger reveal. But even intercutting the two scenes together, while it works with Detective Kim, it just feels like you're throwing even more information on top. Just so you know, for 100% definite, the guy that's sitting in that chair right there across from Dr. Glenn, that is the only person that we have that's a suspect in this case. And they'll have a fight with Daredevil and he will die in the same episode. It's like, all right. Okay. We've done that. It's out of the way. Right. That's gone. There's the end of the Muse character.

[00:39:12] But I did really like him and I'd love to have seen more. Definitely. Yeah, absolutely. Let's get on to case note number four, John. Yes. Fisk gives the Vigilante Task Force the credit for Heather's rescue, effectively here. Yeah, no, I kind of, I like this. You see the police arriving as Daredevil and Muse are sort of fighting in Heather's office. They hear the gunshots ring out.

[00:39:41] Daredevil has gone and escaped by the time they come bursting through to see Muse dead. I do like the fact that he's on his own canvas. I thought that was quite a nice little touch, actually. And Daredevil has kind of created a mural with the blood from. Exactly. Did you notice that moment where he uses his billy club around the throat of Bastion, pulls him towards him and you see the blood coming out and it's all spilling down his back. It's like there's a little bit more of that brutality that we've seen in the season.

[00:40:10] But I like the fact that later on, you know, Sergeant North is there saying to Fisk, who's the, you know, the Daredevil was up here. Even in the chaotic mess, you know, we're sure that he was up here and was fighting Muse. And I do love this from Fisk where he just says, no, it was just the task force.

[00:40:37] It's, you know, it's you that are the heroes. And I love that, just that political spin that he is placing on this. Absolutely. The vigilante Muse was taken down by his task force, not by another masked vigilante. And, you know, it makes perfect sense that that would be the case.

[00:41:03] I also just like the fact that I guess it's coming to the point of whether, you know, Daniel is sort of baby porky sort of kingpin. Well, yeah. That I like the fact that Daniel here seems to switch a gear. It seems like he's taking something from Wilson Fisk where he pressures B.B. Ulrich, you know, and really presses her on the narrative that Fisk is establishing here.

[00:41:33] That it wasn't Daredevil. He didn't do anything. It was only the task force, you know. And effectively, he threatens her here. And I like that, again, it's a subtle threat. It's like what you decide here will determine how awesome or, you know, shitty your life will be from here on in. I'd be so stoked if you made the right choice. Exactly. And I just thought this was really, like, excellent.

[00:42:02] And I was good to see that little shift from, like, even just the start of the episode where Daniel is kind of just following book. Here it feels like he is taking an executive decision here. I'd agree with that, yeah. That absolutely is protecting the Fisk narrative. And not necessarily with Fisk's.

[00:42:30] I mean, Fisk will absolutely be fine that he's done that. But not with Fisk having told him to do it. Maybe, yeah. I mean, we know he's kind of a loyal mouthpiece. It's part of the reason why Fisk, you know, let him off in the last episode. But I like that that's just given a bit more emphasis here for Daniel. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, it's all based on that, on the story that Bibi wrote.

[00:43:00] Effectively embarrassing Daniel, taking information that he gave to her in private context, as we found out at 4 a.m. after they'd taken loads of drugs and been drinking together all night. She took that story and printed it without kind of getting his approval. Of course, he doesn't have to, but he's saying, you know, what risks I'm taking for you to get you the connections that you have and how that made me look bad. This is one choice that you have to make. You have to print this story. So, yeah, I'd really like that. And I think you're right.

[00:43:29] I think there is a possibility here that we could see Michael around for a very long time as the apprentice to Kingpin. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So, yeah. And even, you know, here as this is happening, you have, you know, the hospital scene with Heather there recovering. Where Heather's kind of weakly is saying to Matt, who's by her side, that she thinks that Daredevil said her name. Oh, yes.

[00:43:54] So there is that little thing that's going to, I guess, persist in her memory or may even be mentioned to the police. Well, exactly. And I'm also surprised she didn't say he said my name and he has your beard, Matt. Yeah, exactly. Again, he needs to shave. He does. He does. But this is a big kind of setup for what Fisk is doing with his task force.

[00:44:18] He's now changing the narrative, making sure the vigilante doesn't even get the win or the heroic moment in the city. He's taking that and putting it on onto his task force now. So another big twist in the story of Fisk as well. Well, there's one more to go. We have our final case note, John. Yes. Case note number five. Yes. The death of Luca. Yes. Here. Yeah.

[00:44:43] As we started right at the top of the podcast, I think what I really like here is just the fact it's so open around what role Vanessa has here. Because we do see earlier in the episode, you know, that lovely kind of plotting. You know, Luca is finding it difficult. He doesn't really understand why, what Fisk's angle is with becoming mayor.

[00:45:11] You know, and things were better when he wasn't around and it was Vanessa heading up his operations because they actually earned money. And the rules made sense to him. So he's just like he's kind of a bit awash with what's happening, why it's happening. And actually, in the end, business is not as good at the moment. Well, there's indications throughout this conversation that he's not able to read Vanessa at all anyway.

[00:45:38] So he's trying to tell her he's unsatisfied by Wilson Fisk's return. And he's telling her, you know, we worked really well together. You know, we made so much money at the time and now I'm making nothing. And then he imposed this massive bill on me, this 1.8 million or 2.8 million eventually that I have to pay. And I wasn't making any money at all. And then Vanessa goes, no, no, that was me that imposed that money on you because you broke the rules.

[00:46:02] So he's having a conversation with someone that already is on the back foot with him and that is in full agreement, it seems, with Wilson from what we've seen anyway. And he's trying to push her to say that she doesn't agree with what Wilson Fisk's doing. Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, it's like, you know, he's asking for permission or help, she asks, you know, maybe time for a change. So, again, you know, I just had, you know, is this Vanessa plotting or is it a red herring?

[00:46:31] You know, it's drawing Luca in because, yeah, Luca may not be the full penny. You know, you've updated from shilling, John. Or shilling. Yeah, exactly. Not the full sense. I do like the little, it felt almost a bit lyrical from Vanessa where he says, you know, and the rules made sense. And she goes, ah, yeah, the rules play nice, keep smart, keep low. You did none of that. Now you owe.

[00:47:00] I just thought that was lovely. Yeah, I love that little moment where she said that. And just because it made sense for Vanessa to say that. But equally then, you know, we have Luca going to 32 Withers Street where Fisk is alone. This felt absolutely like a setup from the end of The Godfather where they're taking out all the heads of the families. You know, Vanessa is texting the location of Fisk to Luca. Yeah.

[00:47:27] She certainly did that, whether she also sent it to book, you know. But I love the fact that he goes in, you have that classic kind of scene of, you know, the Godfather with his back to the door. Or Luca coming in with the gun raising up. And then it's just from the shadows, book takes him out with a silencer on. And then you get the moment of, oh, give Vanessa a call, see if she wants me to bring home any, you know, food.

[00:47:57] And you're like, is that a signal to say because I'm still here or because it's done, you know. And Luca's dead that the double crosses work. Yeah. So I like that. And I'm looking forward to seeing how it actually is. It's so interesting because I just can't tell now, especially after this episode with how they dealt with Muse's story. Usually by the stage in the series, you'd be going, oh, they're probably maybe maybe it is Vanessa.

[00:48:26] Maybe she's double crossing Fisk. And actually, Buck has double crossed Vanessa by arriving there and taking out Luca because he was aware of the plan from Vanessa because he's closer to her than he is to Fisk. And then after you think about that, you go, well, but in this show, does that fit the narrative of how they've written the show so far? Because it doesn't feel like it does. It did feel like by the end of the season, there would be a decision made whether Vanessa gets killed by Fisk because she's gone against him or whether they resolve their differences.

[00:48:56] Is that what this is building up towards? I just can't tell. I mean, I really like Buck, actually, a lot. I just wish he wasn't called Buck because I just keep thinking of Buck Rogers. So I'm expecting the robot Tweedy to come in and like, hey, Buck or something. Well, I've got a different one. I've got from Kill Bill. My name is Buck. And I like, no, I'm not going to finish that right. No, don't. No, but this is Buck Cashman. Yes. Yes.

[00:49:24] But I love the character. Yeah. I think he's a bit mysterious. I once again, just like in the Netflix shows, as I've been saying constantly, this is a character that would be fleshed out in the Netflix shows. You'd know more about him by this stage. Yes, you're right. I like the secrecy. I like that he's the guy in the background. But that allows you to kind of infer personality traits on top of them that we may have actually learned if we'd had more time with them. I mean, I like the mystery.

[00:49:51] But I say that in that, but I'd like to know whether he's actually in effect owned by Fisk or Vanessa. That's yeah. But it equally might just be both. Well, exactly. I mean, that's what I'm increasingly thinking is the case. He works for them. Yeah. And they're both kingpin now or something. Yeah, yeah. That would be a great reveal that they're both kingpin and they're both in charge of Buck equally.

[00:50:21] Yeah, exactly. But yes, another head of another family taken out. The tracksuit maviar. Another lost leader now at this stage. Do we have any notes on the episode? Anything else you want to talk about that we didn't get to talk about in our main case notes? I think we just have, we have a whiskey watch. We do. For sure. We have Winston Supreme Canadian whiskey, which I guess made it in time just before the tariffs.

[00:50:50] It got there to the States, tariff free. Very expensive whiskey now. Yeah, no, it's an advert for Winston Supreme Canadian whiskey as shown right at the beginning of this episode. But interestingly, this was the whiskey of choice for Jessica Jones. In three of the episodes in season one and two episodes of the defenders.

[00:51:15] But it was also in an episode of Agent Carter with Howard Stark when he is bemoaning the breaking of an expensive bottle of Winston. So this straddles Winston Supreme Canadian whiskey. Someone loves it somewhere in the writing room has straddled Jessica Jones, Agent Carter, and now Daredevil Born Again. And the defenders as well. Yeah. And the defenders. Plus this one. Yep. Yep.

[00:51:45] I think we talked about it on Whiskey Watch before that the first season of, the first time we did Whiskey Watch, it was actually just branded stuff. Somebody's drinking Jameson. Somebody's drinking this. I think they eventually created a brand that they drink in the Netflix shows so they didn't have to pay out money to places like Jameson or to bourbon companies in the US. So this is the one they came up with. So it started to be shared around the sets of all of these shows. So something to connect them all. So it's kind of cool to see an advert for back here. Yeah.

[00:52:13] And as always, it is, of course, a whiskey without the E. Oh, it is, isn't it? I wrote it down with an E in my notes. So that's just me. Yeah. I think there's some split as to whether you spell whiskey with an E in it or not at one point. But I think now it's you take your chances. Sometimes with an E, sometimes with an E. That's all. That's all. I think without an E is more North American. Right. I would say that's probably true. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:43] And probably a couple of Scottish whiskeys have no E. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. But anyway, yes. Whiskey Watch. Kind of good Whiskey Watch. This week for us, especially after coming out of starting it back in the Defenders days and now coming full circle. Certainly with this one. With being Winston Supreme Canadian and the fact that, as I say, it straddled the Marvel TV shows. It's kind of cool. It's quite nice. Kind of cool. Great stuff. I guess that leaves us with our defense, John.

[00:53:12] Do you defend Daredevil Born Again? Season one, episode seven. Art for art's sake. Yes, I do. But I give it three and a half artsy blood blessings out of five. You know, I like this more than that probably suggests. Yeah. Because I do like a lot of what happens in this episode.

[00:53:33] I just can't really get over how much of the story is just thrown at you in this episode. And it almost feels like Muse could have just been a vehicle for something else. And it is and it will be. Yeah.

[00:53:54] Rather than trying to just introduce this new character to the Marvel street level world. And in particular, the Daredevil world. You know, I wish there had been a bit more time because this did feel really truncated. And I actually felt sorry for the two actors that, you know, with Heather's character and the Muse character or the Bastion character.

[00:54:23] And kind of just being sort of put into this rocket that explodes with this stuff that seems to just come too quickly. And I think also, you know, it's a bit the same with the investigation as well. It feels like it could have happened earlier. I just think a lot of it hasn't been signposted that well.

[00:54:50] And yet I loved the whole ending of this with the death of Luca. And I've said about with Vanessa, that sort of, you know, is it duplicitous or is it loyalty that she's playing here? And I do like the the whole fight between Muse and Daredevil. I like the the almost politicization of Wilson Fisk.

[00:55:14] He's starting to understand how he can use this role, this legitimacy to his benefit. And and I really like that.

[00:55:25] But, you know, I think both with Heather and Bastion in the room, as well as Matt's personal relationships with Cherry and with his partner, McDuffie, they just seem really rushed here, truncated, let alone Detective Kim's investigation. And it feels like this could have come a little bit earlier, actually, in terms of the lair.

[00:55:52] And it may be maybe two episodes ago. And this was the sort of culmination of that. Exactly. And, you know, but I did enjoy it. And so I'd give it three and a half artsy bloodlettings out of five. Excellent. Excellent. There is a one line justification from Matt Murdock as to why everything goes so fast in this episode. Did you notice it when Cherry's telling him why you put on the costume again?

[00:56:18] He goes, because I put the costume on and I found Muses' lair in one day, one night, basically. So it's kind of almost saying we sped everything up because he got the costume on and now we can now we can tell the story really, really quickly. But the police investigation is going very fast, too. Yeah, definitely. And but, Derek, do you defend Daredevil Born Again? Episode seven. I do defend it because I like everything that happened in this episode. I felt there's nothing that's in this episode that you could excise from the show to make it any better. Yeah.

[00:56:47] So I do defend that episode. But I totally agree with you. Most of this could be spread across the season. If other if other elements of this show were going to be taken out, if this show was telling a different story, I think Muses would be much more front and center. It'd be much more the tale about Daredevil and Fisk going after this this person in the city. Fisk because he thinks he's a vigilante who's annoying him with the with the murals and Daredevil because he realizes he's a serial killer.

[00:57:16] That's the tale from the comic books. That's what it's being lifted from effectively. So that could have been spread much earlier in the show. You would have had, as we said, those moments where he and Heather are having their their sessions from earlier on in the season. And then the big reveal that this is Muses is the person that everybody's been trying to find would make more sense. The way it sits now, it just does feel so rushed.

[00:57:41] And as you say, it's now a character where people who haven't read the comic books will be wondering why he was interesting in the first place. You know, why is this character so interesting? Why did people really latch on to this character? You could have just made him a serial killer. Yeah, exactly. Not a serial killer and a mask. I mean, well, he has to be in a mask for it to work for Wilson Fisk's task force. Yeah, exactly. But there's so many other vigilantes in a mask. Like even just white tiger, you know? Yeah.

[00:58:08] Something that plays from that or whatever it is. Yeah. You could pick whoever. Yeah, you pick someone really interesting and it's just really not dealt with that well. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a real shame. I love because I don't think we're going to get Muses back in another way in the future or anything like that. A lot of characters we've seen in these shows, you go, OK, well, actually.

[00:58:34] Unless Elektra does something, you know, I guess exotic to him. Well, absolutely. That could happen. That it's happened before. You know, there's other characters have come back from the dead. I totally get that. But it feels like there's not enough there to latch on that people will want to see Muses 2, you know? Even with white tiger, what we've seen on screen, people are clamoring to see Angela del Toro take up the mask of white tiger in the future because they're dropping hints that that could happen in the show.

[00:59:02] With Muses being used in this way, I don't think anybody's clamoring to see that character back in the future. They're probably clamoring for a different version or more of the story that's here. What was left on the cutting room floor is what this episode left me thinking. But I did still enjoy it. It's still a good Daredevil episode overall. Yeah, definitely. But with that said, I think it's time to wet our whistle once again. Get down to the pub. Grab a pint, John. Let's get down to the Josie's pub quiz. Yes, absolutely.

[00:59:32] Fellow quizzers and, of course, fellow defenders, welcome to question seven of this season of Daredevil Born Again. Yes. Question seven. How many millimetres of blood did Angela del Toro lose to Muses? I know it sounds like a lot. Would you accept that as the answer? A lot? No. No. Okay, grand. So there is a very specific... There is a number called out. Okay. Do you want to get the question one more time, John?

[01:00:02] How many millimetres of blood did Angela del Toro lose to Muses? Excellent. That's the seven questions, John said. Gather together all of the correct answers and email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com at the end of the season with all the correct answers, and you can be able to chance of getting your hands on some Daredevil Born Again goodies. Yes. Good luck, fellow quizzers and defenders, with the answers to this season's Josie's pub quiz.

[01:00:29] I think it's time for some feedback from our fellow defenders. Absolutely. Yep. First up, we got an email in from Chris Farmer, who had some feedback on episode five. He says, Hey guys, great recap of Daredevil's double drop last week. I accidentally watched episode six first and didn't even notice I'd missed an episode. But I just had a question for you. Can you please unpack what the bank robber was saying about St. Patrick's Day not meaning anything to a Protestant? I think there was some subtext that I, as an American, missed, and I've watched all of Derry Girls.

[01:00:56] Was he saying that he's a Protestant and therefore he and Matt don't have as much in common as Matt was banking on? Or that in general the world doesn't really respect St. Patrick's Day, and so that's why he was happy to commit crimes on that day. Thanks. From Chris. Interesting question, Chris. Thanks for the email. Yeah, absolutely. Excellent, Chris. So really, St. Patrick is an Irish Catholic saint. He introduced Catholicism to Ireland, or at least explained Catholicism to Irish people

[01:01:23] in a way that they took on board, and he's become the patron saint of the Republic of Ireland. And so without going into too much of the religion or political side, it's very much this guy is from Northern Ireland, a different country, not the Republic of Ireland, and he's a Protestant who doesn't follow the Catholic teachings. And St. Patrick is the one that taught the Catholics their first teachings, really. Yeah. I mean, I think it might be more that he's a Northern Irish Protestant rather than being

[01:01:51] an Irish Protestant, because of the association that generally, from a Northern Irish Protestant perspective, you would be more aligned with being a Unionist rather than a Republican, I guess. Well, yes, yes, you'd be more aligned. So there's that element to it as well, I think. There is. But equally, you know, in Ireland, Catholics and Protestants celebrate St. Patrick's Day. Not traditionally, though. So that's a very new...

[01:02:19] No, not traditionally, but now that we've kind of grown up, it's like they do. Oh, well, St. Patrick's Day is Mardi Gras in Ireland now. It's nothing really connected to St. Patrick anymore. But when you're in New York and you're seeing the parade go by, that is very much an old traditional Irish parade. Oh, agrees. It is supposed to be celebrated by the Catholics. Things they don't allow in the New York parade that is fundamental and central to the Irish St. Patrick's Day parade is very, very different. But the point he's saying is that St. Patrick's doesn't represent a Northern Irish Protestant,

[01:02:49] let's say. That's kind of the basic of it. So we should have described that and explained that a little bit more, Chris, when we talked about it, especially to someone who's watched The Dairy Girls, an excellent comedy show all about Northern Irish Protestants and Catholics and their relationships with each other. Great question, Chris. And thank you so much. Next up on email, Coffee and Vodka shared his thoughts on this week's episode. He said, greetings, fellow canvas defiling defenders.

[01:03:19] Starting with the end, it was either Sopranos level excellent if Vanessa wasn't acting in concert with Wilson or just all right if she was. The former implies so much depth of character and intrigue, while the latter would only be capitulation. Everything from the business to Adam to her very identity hangs in the balance, which way do you all think it will swing?

[01:03:44] From discovery to demise in like 17 minutes, you could feel Muse being unfairly bum-rushed off stage. After such a buildup only to be used as another brick in the path to Daredevil and Kingpin's confrontation was just criminal. Speaking of criminal, Murdoch's disrespectful treatment of McDuffie and their practice is a clear sign that they're on the outs. If nothing else, the original creative team managed to pick up on Matt's less than perfect

[01:04:13] character traits and play them to perfection. Not complaining, love me a flawed hero. And his calling this past year of his life fake was telling indeed. Indeed. Another scar to pain edit perhaps. Time and next episode will tell. Four-ish slashed psychoanalysts, Russian roulette relationships and vanishing villains out of five. Peace and take care. Coffee and vodka.

[01:04:42] Very good coffee and vodka. I like that. I think we mentioned which way we think Vanessa strings in this situation and we do think that she's aligned with Wilson Fisk, but it would be really interesting if she wasn't, if she was sending someone there to murder her husband and it just turned out that that book got there in time to kill the attempted assassin. That would be a really interesting twist for the show, wouldn't it? Definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:05:08] And yeah, I guess Matt's calling an entire year where he's not wearing the Daredevil costume fake is quite a big moment for him, you know? I know what you mean. I like that, you know, that the previous writing team and runners of this really did sort of link

[01:05:32] into sort of those personality traits for better or for worse of Matt. I mean, in a sense, whilst, you know, it's almost that self-loathing. We've just not had it in a confessional box, you know, that self-loathing of everything that's happened in the year because he's not had the suit on.

[01:05:55] But it, you know, it infects McDuffie, Cherry and Heather, you know, in this episode. I love that Heather's going, oh yeah, you used to have a different life. You know, back in the old days in the different firm with Foggy and Karen and Matt's kind of going, yeah, kind of. I don't really mean that life. I mean the entirely different life that I was leading at night, killing bad guys and saving all of Hell's Kitchen, you know? Yeah. Not saying it's too rude. Yeah. But great stuff. Thanks, Coffee and Vodka. Thanks, Coffee and Vodka.

[01:06:24] Victor Von Doom shared his thoughts as well in the episode. He says, greetings to Fender's. What? Mew's gone already? Feels really rushed, but perhaps a vigilante will come looking for his killers, maybe? Is Vanessa drawing battle lines or is she pushing Wilson just to get her kingpin back? Ooh, interesting. Heather, as a therapist, seems to have a blind spot when it comes to Matt. One would think a lover showing up with huge bruises would call for a much deeper and longer discussion. The sex comes later.

[01:06:52] This and other inconsistencies could be a symptom of the series mid-production change. I'm sure next season will be all one creation and much smoother. In the meantime, enough Heather, enough Angela, enough Daniel, enough Vanessa. Well, perhaps more Vanessa. Anyway, let's get Punisher and Swordsman here to help Dee Dee set things right. Understanding the production circumstances, I do defend this episode, though. Until next time, be careful what you wish for.

[01:07:24] Excellent stuff, Victor. Yeah, I think book is really interesting in that regard. And actually, the plant side of things is something that I've thought about as well. And certainly with this episode where he is effectively keeping protection over Wilson Fisk, knows that there is someone about to, at some point that evening, is going to come through

[01:07:51] the door and Wilson is fairly confident enough to have his back to the door and put blind faith in book to take that shot when he needs to. Rather than just shooting him. So, yeah. I mean, I'm not too sure whether book is playing both sides or whether he is with both sides. Yeah. Effectively, two become one here, as the Spice Girls used to say.

[01:08:19] I do think our fellow defenders are coming up with some great ideas that may have worked in the writers' room if they had been there. Definitely. So, well done, fellow defenders. Absolutely. Great stuff, Victor. And yes, Muse gone too soon, I think. Or too quickly, I should say. Without a bit. Yeah, for sure. Over on Facebook, Harvey Locus says, Hey guys, loving your coverage of the show. Thus far. Especially the Whiskey Watch.

[01:08:46] I won't mention too much about the Jessica Jones reference here, just in case you use it for the trivia question. But I do want to address something you mentioned in the first episode. We had an off-camera bourbon pour, but you said it wouldn't count. I just wanted to say it would count because all bourbon is whiskey. Bourbon is a whiskey that just has stricter parameters. It has to be made in the US. It has to have at least 51% corn and cannot reuse the charred barrels.

[01:09:16] P.S. Canadian whiskey is garbage. P.P.S. I had some small batch Bohane gin from Ireland and it was divine. Very good. Good stuff, Harvey Locus. Now we're cooking. You're the big gin drinker of the two of us. You're the one that loves your gin. Do you like the Bohane Irish gin? I've never had it, actually, but I will certainly go looking.

[01:09:38] There are a lot of nice gins in this neck of the woods, particularly from County Cork. There are. A lot of small batch ones. Really nice, depending on what botanicals they might use. I know gunpowder would be the big one that sort of set off the Irish small distillery gin production.

[01:10:04] And, of course, it'd been really good because you can get vodka and gin before you get your whiskey. So a lot of these places are also doing their whiskey. But in the meantime, they'll make a really nice small batch gin or, indeed, a vodka. But I will certainly check that one out. I think some of the botanicals, there's one from Cork that uses milk. Yeah, it's the one with the cow on the front of it with the hoof print in the wax. Very good. Very nice.

[01:10:34] So, yeah, they are really nice and smooth. Another one I would advise, Harvey, is Blood Monkey. It's so smooth, you can probably drink it neat. Ooh. That's from near your hometown in the UK, isn't it? No, no, it's Irish whiskey. It's Irish. Small batch, yeah. Oh, very good. And it's so smooth. They actually recommend you can drink it neat. I mean, even though it is smooth, I still need...

[01:11:04] Some time ago. It's like drinking vodka neat. It's just not possible, really. We've done that, though, as well. And I think, sorry, but coming back to the bourbon point, sorry, I got a little lost in gin for a while. Sometimes happens, yeah. I'm now thinking I might have a nice gin and tonic after this. But it wasn't that it wouldn't count as whiskey. It's just because we couldn't see the bottle or the make. So, yes, bourbon absolutely is a whiskey. Yeah.

[01:11:33] Totally agree with you, for sure. So, I think as well... We can't use it as a pub quiz question because there's no name on the bottle. Yeah. So, that was part of the reason we were having that discussion. So, it does count, of course, bourbon as absolute whiskey. We don't want to dispute that. But if it doesn't have the bottle on screen, we can't use it as a pub quiz question because we wouldn't say they were drinking bourbon. Somebody would say whiskey. I agree.

[01:11:57] And I think one of the other defining elements of bourbon as opposed to scotch and as opposed to Irish whiskey is it is only distilled once. And that's why it's always been slightly fierier. Oh, very good. You can still get smooth bourbons. Whiskey is generally distilled twice. And Irish whiskey is always triple distilled. Oh, very good. Did not know that.

[01:12:27] And so, that's another important defining feature. And I guess, yes, as you say, bourbon is at least 51% corn. And generally, you would have a lot of peace involved with scotch or Irish whiskey. I might just have to turn this into a whiskey watch corner in the future. I'm more of a yo-ho-ho with a bottle of rum kind of guy, to be honest. But I do always love whiskey watch. Yeah, in these shows.

[01:12:57] Thanks so much, Harvey, for that. Great stuff, Harvey. Yeah, thank you. We also got a message from Dr. Bob Phillips who says, Great stuff, Dr. Bob.

[01:13:26] Yeah, there was some really good things in this episode. There's no doubt in that. It's just the amount of them that were put into this episode that could have been stretched a little bit in other episodes. I think that's kind of where we're all sitting, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And you're right. He does look like a young Chekhov. He does look a little bit like young Chekhov, yes. But I think that's more to do with the Chekhov's gun idea. Placing it in that one, it has to be used by Act 3. Yes. So, yes, I think it's that.

[01:13:53] But he does look like Chekhov from the Star Trek movies. Yes. That's why I was like, oh, does he mean that Chekhov or does he mean Chekhov's gun? The Chekhov's gun. No, I think it could be both. It's a double from Dr. Bob. It's a double whammy. Double barreled. Yes. Yeah. Of whiskey. Thanks, Dr. Bob, for your thoughts there. Lovely. Thanks, Dr. Bob. And finally, Parthenia Locklear just got all caught up and says,

[01:14:20] I'm enjoying it, although I do feel like things are being rushed through. His new instant relationship was rushed. The male race rushed. Finding and ending muse definitely rushed. That was a short-lived story. I also felt cheated by the White Tiger story. Overall, it's enjoyable, but I do feel like there's just so many stories being patched together. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with that. I think that's valid. Yeah. Absolutely loving it.

[01:14:48] And, you know, if you just look at a distilled episode, like the bank job episode, that worked so well, an episode where we have Matt not in costume, but dealing with bad guys in a bank with a guest star from another MCU show, you know, it worked so well as an episode. And if all the episodes have had that kind of balance of how you tell the story from beginning to end and it's one thing happening, it would be great. You know, sometimes I wonder, you know, have months passed here in the seven episodes and

[01:15:18] sometimes you're watching them going, has this all happened in one whole week? You know, is Matt going to bed and getting up the next day and then going to court and doing all of his work and doing everything in one day and all the investigations are going on? Or has literally months gone by here to fit in all of the story that they're squeezing into some episodes, particularly like episode seven? Yeah. I mean, I don't know. In the end, to me, a lot of this feels really strange that they've taken such a large character.

[01:15:44] You know, Daredevil is a big character, yet not as big as, you know, some of the ones that we've seen in the MCU or whatever. But, you know, a beloved character. Yeah. I would say, you know, arguably, you know, there is some equivalence there with Spider-Man. You know, so like he's that there's that fan base for Daredevil.

[01:16:08] And it feels strange that they've allowed this to happen with that prophecy. Well. To some extent. Or just maybe. Yeah. I would say the argument is they created the show. They delivered it. We speculated there was only six episodes in what was delivered and then they fired everybody involved in that, asked Darius Gardapain to come in with the other writers and shaped this into a story that lasted nine episodes, gave him a couple of extra episodes to play with.

[01:16:36] But he had to shape what was already filmed and what was already written into a coherent story that added to a bigger situation. And if you look at some of the episodes, you can kind of see it in there as well. This may have felt as small as Echo did. And Echo felt like a really small story, really good one. But it felt like a really small story over those five episodes. And I think Daredevil was probably there. And they realized, hang on a second, there's three seasons of the show. There's loads of fans out there that want a bit more of that play between Kingpin.

[01:17:03] So I feel like they've turned what may have been a very small story into a massive story. And by doing that, things are getting a bit confused and a bit lost. Yeah, no, agreed. And I think, actually, I think they've done things well in how they've done it. I think it's just in this episode. And actually, you know, I think what Parthenia says here, you know, just the story's being patched together. That's fair to me.

[01:17:30] I think the join is really noticeable in this episode. Maybe the other ones, it's just much subtler. And so you go, okay, I get it. I mean, even with episode five, you tell that's almost like standalone. But still, it felt involved in that story. It did, absolutely. Absolutely. And there's a reason they were in the bank. There's a reason the heist was going on. It's all connected to the overall story.

[01:17:55] It's almost like they've got to episode seven and went, oh, we've got all that Muse stuff that we edited out of the first few episodes. We need to finish that story so that we can get on to these two new episodes at the end. Let's just put it all in here in episode five, episode seven. That's kind of what it felt like. But still, again, overall, defend the episode. That's it for our feedback for the episode. And that's it for our discussion on Daredevil Born Again, season one, episode seven. We'll be back next week, of course, with the penultimate episode of Daredevil Born Again, episode eight. Looking forward to that one.

[01:18:24] Yes, looking forward to that indeed. Remember, fellow defenders, that you can head on over to Patreon or buymeacoffee.com where you can support TV podcast industries. But equally, you can support us by sending in feedback because we love to get your thoughts. We do. Or share the podcast because sharing the podcast is, of course, sharing the love. Yes, it is. Yes.

[01:18:49] We will also be back, just to let you know, in a couple of weeks' time with the second season of The Last of Us. Oh, I cannot wait. Which will be coming back to HBO Max. And yes, I cannot wait to see the old mushrooms rising up against humanity again. I'm really, really excited about this. I have no idea what amount of the story they're going to tell from The Last of Us, the second game. Myself and John replayed it last year.

[01:19:19] And there's such a huge, great story in there to tell. So much stuff that I think it's probably going to be spread over two seasons. But I don't know where they're going to start. I don't know where they're going to end. I'm really excited to see what they have. There's seven episodes coming for season two of The Last of Us beginning on the 12th, I think, of April. Don't hold me to that because I think it's on the next day in Europe. So it's on the 13th in Europe and the 12th in the US, as far as I know. Yeah. Or North America and Europe. There you go.

[01:19:49] But very much looking forward to that. It'll be a lot of fun myself and John will be covering that like we did the first season. So looking forward to being there. But also looking forward to the eighth episode of Daredevil Born Again. And hopefully you'll join us next week for that chat. Yes. Thank you so much, fellow defenders, for joining us for this discussion of Daredevil Born Again. Until next time, of course, keep watching, keep listening. And, of course, keep defending. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.