Agatha All Along Finale Review

[00:00:00] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We're back with the finale of Agatha All Along. The final two episodes, episode eight, Follow Me My Friend to Glory at the End and episode nine, Maiden Mother Crone.

[00:00:15] You must know the way then.

[00:00:16] How dare you? Who are you?

[00:00:19] Forgive me. I heard your singing. I thought you may know the way.

[00:00:27] The way to what?

[00:00:29] The Witch's Road.

[00:00:32] I heard tell of it. The road offers a prize worth the peril to witches who are brave and true.

[00:00:40] You know the ballad, and I'm in great need. Might you show me the way?

[00:00:59] You inquire in good faith, so I shall respond in kind.

[00:01:05] Of course I will show you the way to the road. I know it by heart.

[00:01:13] First, we must gather a cavern.

[00:01:47] Welcome back, fellow Defenders to TV Podcast Industries. We're talking about Agatha All Along. The last two episodes of the second season of WandaVision?

[00:01:56] We're talking about episode eight, Follow Me My Friend to Glory at the End and episode nine, Maiden Mother Crone.

[00:02:02] I'm one of your hosts, Derek.

[00:02:03] Hello there, fellow Defenders. I am your other host, John.

[00:02:07] Yeah, no Chris again this week, unfortunately.

[00:02:09] No, no. He's got the big move.

[00:02:11] He does.

[00:02:12] The big move.

[00:02:12] Yeah, move in house at the moment, so we thought we'd be able to fit in a podcast with them, but we were going to do it on Halloween night, and then our neighbor decided to have an entire fireworks display outside our house last night, so we couldn't record, unfortunately.

[00:02:27] Yes, absolutely.

[00:02:28] The remnants this morning of all the fireworks.

[00:02:31] Absolutely.

[00:02:32] Yes, and of course, our cat wasn't particularly pleased with that. Neither were our neighbor's dogs, so yes.

[00:02:40] I think they would have got the message when the dogs were barking for two hours, but anyway, we're not here to complain about our neighbors.

[00:02:45] We're here to talk about the excellent last two episodes of Agatha All Along, but there has also been some Marvel news that came out this week that we want to talk about, because there's lots and lots of stuff coming up on Disney+.

[00:02:55] Loads.

[00:02:55] Next year, or over the next couple of weeks, actually, to begin with, because Deadpool and Wolverine is going to be coming out in November on Disney+.

[00:03:03] And then our next Marvel series is coming up in December. What if season three is coming up on December 22nd, just before the holidays, John?

[00:03:13] Yeah, I know. I, for some reason, completely forgot about it.

[00:03:17] But I love the What If series. I've really, really enjoyed it. And actually, in the announcement, I'm kind of really pleased that there's a whole rake of Marvel animations coming, because they look really cool, like Marvel Zombies, which is for Halloween 2025.

[00:03:37] Yeah. And spinning out of What If as well.

[00:03:40] Yeah, exactly. But also, I mean, the Eyes of Wakanda, which is slightly earlier in August 2025, looks very pretty.

[00:03:49] Yeah.

[00:03:49] Really like the look of that.

[00:03:51] Yeah, it kind of looks like the Star Wars ones that they do. We covered one of the Star Wars short shows that they do in between big animated series.

[00:04:01] It looks similar to that kind of style. It's a four episode animated series as well.

[00:04:05] There's one more animated show that's going to be coming up early next year, which is your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, which we're not going to be covering on TV podcast industries.

[00:04:11] But I know Chris is a big fan and will definitely be showing it to his lovely son, who's becoming a Spider-Man fan, even at one year old.

[00:04:19] So I know he'll be watching that along with him.

[00:04:21] But the big ones for next year as well are three live action TV shows coming next year.

[00:04:26] We knew about one, which was Daredevil Born Again coming March 4th, 2025.

[00:04:31] But there's two more that are coming out next year confirmed.

[00:04:33] Now, we knew they were filming, but the next one is Ironheart, which comes out of Wakanda forever.

[00:04:38] We met the character of Riri Williams in that movie.

[00:04:41] So finally, that's being released.

[00:04:43] And that was that was been in production for about three years.

[00:04:45] I suppose you're doing Iron Man on TV on a TV budget.

[00:04:49] So, you know, there's going to be a lot of CGI and special effects work on that.

[00:04:54] I guess so. But I mean, it depends how they want to treat it.

[00:04:58] If, yeah, they're just flying around in an Iron Man suit every five seconds.

[00:05:02] Well, then, yeah, it's going to be costly.

[00:05:03] It's going to take about 10 minutes.

[00:05:04] As long as they use it well, it doesn't need to be overly expensive, given the amount of CGI that's happening, I think, in TV now anyway.

[00:05:12] Yeah.

[00:05:12] Yeah.

[00:05:13] Some shows have got whole scenes CGI.

[00:05:17] And I'm not just talking about the Rings of Power, but, you know, the Wheel of Time, certainly the big fantasy stuff.

[00:05:24] Yeah.

[00:05:24] It really does.

[00:05:26] Yeah.

[00:05:26] Yeah.

[00:05:26] But I think given the little clip that we saw of Ironheart in the in the teaser trailer, it does look like they're they're going all out.

[00:05:35] So looking forward to that.

[00:05:36] And the next one, which will be very interesting, is Wonder Man coming in December 2025.

[00:05:42] This one kind of came out of nowhere for John, I think.

[00:05:45] Chris had actually mentioned on the podcast a few weeks ago.

[00:05:47] Yeah.

[00:05:47] I just didn't have any notion of this.

[00:05:49] I don't know how I missed it.

[00:05:51] I just find it bizarre that I've missed this.

[00:05:54] But nonetheless, other than Daredevil Born Again, I don't know.

[00:05:59] Ironheart, I think I'm going to have to be won over by that.

[00:06:03] And I've kind of got vibes of I'm not too sure how much I care about it.

[00:06:10] I really like you in Wakanda Forever.

[00:06:12] No, me too.

[00:06:12] Me too.

[00:06:13] And to be honest, the guy in the scene and sort of a little short clip in that montage has been in the recent Twister 2 movie.

[00:06:28] Twisters.

[00:06:28] Yep.

[00:06:28] Twisters.

[00:06:29] In fact, yeah.

[00:06:29] I just keep thinking of the ice cream Twister.

[00:06:32] Oh, right.

[00:06:33] So I'm like, yum.

[00:06:34] But also, I think he was in a Transformers.

[00:06:37] And I think he's quite good.

[00:06:38] And I liked her in Wakanda Forever because I loved that movie.

[00:06:42] But I just don't know.

[00:06:43] I'm just not necessarily kind of vibing it, for want of a better word.

[00:06:49] Okay.

[00:06:50] And it was maybe just a bit like with Hawkeye.

[00:06:54] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:55] You know?

[00:06:56] And you really enjoyed that when it came out.

[00:06:58] So, yeah.

[00:06:58] Yeah.

[00:06:59] So I don't know.

[00:07:00] I'm...

[00:07:00] I've not closed...

[00:07:02] I've not closed my Ironheart series.

[00:07:04] All right.

[00:07:05] But it's the one that is probably going to have to work the hardest for me to sort of get excited

[00:07:11] about because weirdly, and this is why I'm saying this, is because with Wonder Man, I just kind of just didn't realize this was going to be a thing.

[00:07:19] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:19] And I think, actually, from the clip, you've got Yeha Abdul-Mateen II, who was in Watchmen, who I really liked.

[00:07:28] I really liked this actor.

[00:07:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:30] And so I was like, great.

[00:07:32] And then you got Ben Kingsley reprising Trevor Slattery.

[00:07:37] Uh-huh.

[00:07:37] And I was just like, okay, I'm all in on this, even though for some reason it completely didn't appear on my radar.

[00:07:46] And, yeah, I'm kind of really intrigued.

[00:07:48] Maybe it's also the intrigue of Wonder Man.

[00:07:51] You know, it's a very peripheral character in the Marvel comics.

[00:07:55] He's basically a superhero who plays the role of a superhero on TV or in movies.

[00:08:00] Yeah.

[00:08:01] That's basically it.

[00:08:02] So I don't know what tack they're taking here, but effectively, Simon Williams is the character.

[00:08:05] He's going in for an audition, and he looks like he's working with Trevor Slattery, who's trying to make his way back into the entertainment industry after being kidnapped by the Mandarin.

[00:08:15] Yeah.

[00:08:15] So I'm just kind of really intrigued by this.

[00:08:19] And I like certainly sort of the main cast here that I've seen so far.

[00:08:24] I mean, who doesn't like Trevor Slattery?

[00:08:26] Absolutely.

[00:08:27] He's been great, and we haven't seen him since Shang-Chi.

[00:08:29] Yeah, exactly.

[00:08:30] So I'll be looking forward to seeing him.

[00:08:31] But you've got a whole year to get up to speed in that one.

[00:08:33] We'll get ourselves back up to speed on What If? before it comes out in December as to where that's going.

[00:08:38] But we do know, mentioning Shang-Chi, we know that there's going to be an episode at least that features Shang-Chi in there, which is great to see him because I'm really looking forward to that second movie.

[00:08:47] It's been such a long time since I've seen those characters.

[00:08:50] Absolutely.

[00:08:51] But I think that's it for the upcoming slate of Marvel on Disney+.

[00:08:56] And there's lots of movies coming out next year as well, which will be really exciting because this year has been quite light for Marvel.

[00:09:01] It has.

[00:09:02] And that's why I'm also surprised at this slate, to be honest, because I thought they were going to be pacing themselves.

[00:09:09] And all of a sudden, it's kind of like, oh, we need to pace faster.

[00:09:12] I do think there's a point where you've already put down the money for the project, so you have to kind of release it or else it's an accountancy thing where you've already spent it, so you might as well release it to the public.

[00:09:25] Yeah, I agree.

[00:09:26] So there is going to come a point, and especially with everything being connected in the Marvel Universe, you kind of have to put this stuff out or else it starts to make less and less sense.

[00:09:33] Well, yeah, for sure.

[00:09:35] But I think it looks really, really interesting for 2025.

[00:09:39] So, fellow Defenders, there will be plenty of Marvel goodies for you to pop on over to the Defenders podcast on TV Podcast Industries to listen to our dulcet tones.

[00:09:52] And so, as always, if you want to listen to all of that, as well as the stuff we're doing at the moment, please head on over to tvpodcastindustries.com, where you can subscribe on any Wiccan or Android-loving podcast player of your choice.

[00:10:08] There will be tons and tons of opportunities as well for theories, observations, comments, you name it.

[00:10:15] And so we would love to get those from you by email at feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or through our Facebook group at facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash TV Podcast Industries.

[00:10:33] Absolutely.

[00:10:34] A huge thank you to everybody who's been sending in your feedback for Agatha All Along.

[00:10:37] We'll be talking about your feedback later on in the podcast.

[00:10:39] But there will be one last opportunity, if there's anything you want to talk about from Agatha All Along, we will be doing a wrap-up episode where we'll be wrapping up our pub quiz, our Agatha Cauldron quiz.

[00:10:48] Indeed.

[00:10:48] Yes, later on.

[00:10:50] Once the making of episode comes out on Disney+, which is hopefully going to come out in the next couple of weeks, we will be back talking about Agatha All Along.

[00:10:56] So if you want to get any final thoughts into us on the show or the podcast, email us to those that email us.

[00:11:02] Indeed.

[00:11:03] Let us get on with our spoiler-filled discussion of episode eight and nine of Agatha All Along.

[00:11:11] Follow me, my friend, to glory at the end.

[00:11:14] And of course, Maiden Mother Crow.

[00:11:19] Derek, what are some of the episode details, please?

[00:11:23] Well, the showrunner, of course, for the show is Jack Schaefer, who is the showrunner for WandaVision.

[00:11:26] Both episodes here were directed by Ganja Monteiro.

[00:11:29] She directed episode six of Agatha All Along, as we mentioned then.

[00:11:32] She directed two episodes of The Witcher season three and two episodes of the first season of Wednesday as well.

[00:11:36] So a really experienced director in this type of show as well, which is really good.

[00:11:40] For sure.

[00:11:41] Absolutely love the fact that she's done some Witcher episodes.

[00:11:45] We really, really like that.

[00:11:47] And Wednesday as well.

[00:11:49] So, I mean, this is spookily in her wheelhouse, I would say.

[00:11:55] Very much so.

[00:11:55] Episode eight was written by Peter Cameron.

[00:11:57] He read episode five and six of Moon Knight and episode five and six of WandaVision as well.

[00:12:01] He also wrote the teleplay for the excellent horror Halloween extravaganza that was Werewolf by Night.

[00:12:09] And he's a writer on the upcoming Fantastic Four movie as well.

[00:12:12] That is so interesting.

[00:12:15] Peter, you have a lot to do.

[00:12:18] That's me.

[00:12:18] Because I love Moon Knight.

[00:12:20] I think that was the first Marvel property that I gave five out of five literally, I think, for every episode.

[00:12:29] Or there or thereabouts.

[00:12:31] Maybe one I didn't do.

[00:12:33] WandaVision, again, equally solid.

[00:12:36] Werewolf by Night, really enjoyed that as a one-off.

[00:12:39] It was great.

[00:12:40] So good.

[00:12:42] And if that's the quality that Peter Cameron is involved in, then good.

[00:12:47] Because for me, that will be required to dig Fantastic Four out of a Fantastic Four shtick, to be honest.

[00:12:57] And hope, absolutely.

[00:12:58] And hopefully it will get a fantastic five from you.

[00:13:01] Out of five when we see that next year.

[00:13:04] Yeah.

[00:13:04] So, I mean, that's really good to see that someone like Peter Cameron is a supporting writer there in the movie, to be honest.

[00:13:13] Yep.

[00:13:14] And the finale of the season was written by Jack Schaefer, the showrunner, with Laura Dunney.

[00:13:18] Laura Dunney wrote episode two of this season and wrote the penultimate episode of WandaVision as well.

[00:13:23] So, again, I love this about this show.

[00:13:26] We will talk about it as we get into our spoiler-filled discussion.

[00:13:29] But this does feel now, especially at the end of the season, like WandaVision season two, and will be coming out in the future with a third season, which is Vision Quest, based on the adventures of the Vision that we saw leading WandaVision at the end of season one.

[00:13:45] It wouldn't have made sense to call this WandaVision season two, of course.

[00:13:48] It just wouldn't make logical sense.

[00:13:50] The story of season one was about Wanda.

[00:13:52] This season's about Agatha.

[00:13:53] The next season's about Vision.

[00:13:55] So I guess that's the way they're going to work it.

[00:13:58] Now, interestingly, we heard that Terry Metallus is going to be the showrunner for Vision Quest, as it's currently being called.

[00:14:05] Terry Metallus we talked about this year because he was the showrunner for Picard.

[00:14:09] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:14:10] The final season.

[00:14:11] That's really interesting, actually.

[00:14:12] And I like the fact that it will have some linkages here to Agatha all along.

[00:14:17] I think so.

[00:14:18] I think so.

[00:14:18] He's going to be on a quest, and so is his son.

[00:14:20] Yeah, well, I think it makes sense to, because equally, like, we just haven't seen Vision since WandaVision.

[00:14:27] Yeah.

[00:14:27] So we kind of need to have those eyes on Vision, really.

[00:14:30] We need to find out who he is, because by the end of that season, we didn't really know who that character was.

[00:14:36] Yeah, that as well.

[00:14:37] But with all of that said, and I'd have to give a bit of praise to Jack Schafer as well.

[00:14:42] Really interested to see what she does next.

[00:14:44] Since she worked on WandaVision, worked on Agatha all along, I'm certain that she has big things in her Marvel future at the very least.

[00:14:51] But I would be really interested to see what she's done, because she's done such a good job running those two shows.

[00:14:55] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:14:56] I mean, I think Agatha all along has been really standout, for sure.

[00:15:02] But look, we'll get into the episodes, because I mean, I wouldn't necessarily be full of praise for this final swan song with Agatha.

[00:15:15] Interesting, interesting.

[00:15:16] Well, we'll definitely get into that.

[00:15:17] But I enjoyed them.

[00:15:18] Yeah.

[00:15:18] But John, do you want to give us your synopsis for the final two episodes of Agatha all along?

[00:15:23] Sure.

[00:15:24] Following Lillia's death, Agatha is confronted by Rio, the personification of death.

[00:15:29] She believes Billy is an abomination, as he gained a second life by entering the body of William Kaplan.

[00:15:36] Agatha agrees to deliver him willingly to death once they've completed the road, and is allowed to continue on the journey with Jen and Billy.

[00:15:45] But after a few steps, they find that the witch's road goes in a circle.

[00:15:49] Angered that the road is not what he thought, Billy puts his shoes back on,

[00:15:53] and the three are transported to body bags in a version of Agatha's basement, with grow lights that slowly go out.

[00:16:01] The final trial has begun.

[00:16:03] Each of the remaining members of the coven need to get their reward for reaching the end of the road.

[00:16:09] When Jen learns that Agatha was the witch who bound her, she performs the unbinding spell and regains her abilities.

[00:16:17] Jen disappears, having gotten what she needed from the road.

[00:16:20] Agatha helps Billy locate Tommy's soul, and Billy puts it in the body of a drowning boy.

[00:16:27] Billy disappears, and Agatha grows a flower through a crack in the floor, using a seed from her locket.

[00:16:34] Completing the trial in the nick of time, she leaves the room and finds herself in her garden, where death awaits her.

[00:16:41] While Billy returns to help Agatha, she attempts to complete her vow to Rio and give Billy up, but he convinces her it's her time.

[00:16:50] Agatha kisses her old lover and dies, returning to the earth.

[00:16:55] Death allows Billy to leave, and he returns home to his parents.

[00:17:00] Upon entering his bedroom, he realizes that many of the objects match aspects of the road, and hears Agatha laughing.

[00:17:08] Elsewhere, in 1750, Agatha has difficulty in childbirth.

[00:17:13] As death arrives to take her son, Agatha pleads with her not to take him.

[00:17:19] Death tells Agatha that she already has a better deal than anyone else alive, so all she can give her son is time.

[00:17:27] Agatha gives birth to Nicholas Scratch, knowing that one day death will eventually return to take him.

[00:17:35] Agatha spends the next six years absorbing other witches' powers, and leaving their bodies for death while raising Nicholas.

[00:17:42] As they travel together, Nicholas and his mother concoct a familiar song of their journey.

[00:17:48] Over many iterations of their travelling tune, the ballad of The Witch's Road is formed.

[00:17:54] Nicholas performs the song in a small village, hoping to ensnare some witches for his mother,

[00:17:59] but he is too sick to complete the ruse.

[00:18:02] That night, death finally comes to take the young boy.

[00:18:07] While Agatha mourns her son at his graveside, a witch from the village approaches her.

[00:18:12] She wants Agatha to help guide her down the famous Witch's Road.

[00:18:16] Agatha hatches a plan to continue her long life, using the song she created with her son.

[00:18:22] She spends the next three centuries absorbing other witches' magic by tricking them into gathering covens to open the road,

[00:18:30] then aggravating them into attacking her.

[00:18:33] Back in Billy's room in present day, Agatha, now a ghost, tells Billy that he created the road.

[00:18:40] He despairs, blaming himself for the deaths of Lillia, Alice and Sharon.

[00:18:45] Agatha tries to relieve some of his guilt by saying she killed Alice and Lillia gave herself up,

[00:18:52] but admits Sharon was killed by Billy's mind.

[00:18:55] As Agatha planned to kill the whole coven anyway,

[00:18:58] she believes he should consider himself a saviour as Jen got out alive.

[00:19:04] Billy returns to Westview and tries to banish Agatha in her basement,

[00:19:08] but she reveals that she is afraid of dying because she cannot face Nicholas Scratch.

[00:19:13] After all, she's dumb.

[00:19:16] Billy allows Agatha to remain as a ghost and seals the door he created to the Witch's Road

[00:19:21] with the name of Sharon Davis, Alice Wu Gulliver, and Lillia Calderoo.

[00:19:27] Together, the new coven of two, Billy and Agatha, set out on a quest

[00:19:32] based on Billy's vision to find his brother Tommy.

[00:19:37] And so their vision quest begins.

[00:19:39] Exactly.

[00:19:40] I like it, John. I like it.

[00:19:42] Indeed.

[00:19:43] Indeed, yes.

[00:19:44] All I can say as we start out,

[00:19:46] I hope nobody thought I was spoiling anybody when I came up with the theory

[00:19:50] about three episodes ago that this was all in Billy's mind,

[00:19:52] and he put it all together.

[00:19:54] It was all revealed in the room.

[00:19:56] I think that's just good writing.

[00:19:58] They had all of the clues there in the show that

[00:20:01] Oh, absolutely.

[00:20:02] It doesn't come out and sideswipe you when Billy has the realization that this all came from his mind,

[00:20:07] that he created the road.

[00:20:08] So there's only little things.

[00:20:11] He hadn't invented the Witch's like I thought he had that he'd invented all.

[00:20:16] Those were still all pulled in by Agatha.

[00:20:19] And I mean, actually, it makes sense.

[00:20:20] You know, in the good old phrase, it's not from the road he licked it.

[00:20:24] Exactly.

[00:20:24] Because, you know, Billy can manipulate his and others' reality like his mother did in Westfield.

[00:20:32] He has the same tell as his mother, I think, as Agatha says.

[00:20:35] Exactly.

[00:20:35] Yeah, this was really good.

[00:20:37] I did like it.

[00:20:39] And I kind of liked how, in a sense, that con of The Witch's Road by Billy

[00:20:47] is replicated in ye olde times.

[00:20:52] And effectively with the con of The Witch's Road being sort of passed into people's imagination.

[00:20:59] I mean, it's kind of almost like the non-magic form of something that isn't real.

[00:21:05] You know, gaining sort of mythical or law, sort of status of law.

[00:21:11] I mean, it's in the same way that, you know, the patron saint of England is St. George,

[00:21:18] who slayed a dragon.

[00:21:20] Yeah.

[00:21:20] Or you have the unicorn on like the royal crest.

[00:21:26] So, I mean, these mythical creatures.

[00:21:29] And it's kind of in a similar way.

[00:21:32] But it's also like the idea of a story being passed around and suddenly gaining this idea

[00:21:37] that there's a reality.

[00:21:39] Like, what was it?

[00:21:40] Over 2,000 people arrived in Dublin City Centre last night because they mistakenly believed

[00:21:44] there was a parade happening.

[00:21:46] So, they believed because of things that have been said online.

[00:21:49] So, very similar to the story of The Witch's Road.

[00:21:52] We might get another parade from it because everyone's saying, look how many people showed

[00:21:57] up.

[00:21:58] There's obviously a market or, you know, there's a demand for it.

[00:22:01] So, I think it's hilarious that a prank has that many people in Ireland.

[00:22:04] Like, it's a tiny country.

[00:22:05] To get that many people out is very impressive.

[00:22:07] But then again, Irish people will go out for any kind of knees up.

[00:22:11] So, why not?

[00:22:12] Good stuff.

[00:22:13] But let's get into our top five spells for these two episodes.

[00:22:17] We are going to do it kind of chronologically, though.

[00:22:19] Pick up little bits and pieces of bits that happen later on, I suppose, as we talk.

[00:22:23] But let's start out with our spell number one.

[00:22:26] A deal with death, John.

[00:22:29] I think the opening of this, because we have the reveal last week's episode that Rio is

[00:22:35] death.

[00:22:35] And I'm going to just call her death from now on because her name was never Rio.

[00:22:38] Rio is not the character name.

[00:22:41] She is death.

[00:22:41] But we have the moment where she collected Alice Wu Gulliver.

[00:22:46] That's where she disappeared to.

[00:22:48] Once Alice died, we have her talking to death.

[00:22:51] And I must say, this had such a sense of the Sandman version of death, which was always

[00:22:57] really unusual.

[00:22:58] This ear to the dying as they're being escorted away from their bodies and the kind of sadness

[00:23:05] that they have to experience when they're talking to people as they're going.

[00:23:08] And you have Alice going, is this all the time I get?

[00:23:10] Death.

[00:23:11] And death says to her, I've had a nickel for the amount of times I was asked that, you

[00:23:15] know, kind of jokingly.

[00:23:17] But she is very careful with her and very kind with her.

[00:23:20] We hear Alice kind of going, well, I finally overcome this curse that I've had for my entire

[00:23:24] life.

[00:23:25] Now I can finally do great things.

[00:23:27] And she says, but you're a protection witch and you died protecting someone.

[00:23:29] You have achieved the biggest life goal you could have achieved, really.

[00:23:34] You know?

[00:23:34] It's very matter of fact.

[00:23:36] And I kind of like the deadpan-ness that death does.

[00:23:39] I mean, yes, she's right.

[00:23:42] But I don't think it's as harsh as Rio has been in the last few episodes.

[00:23:47] It feels like there's still a kind of a welcoming of Alice Wu.

[00:23:50] This is her job.

[00:23:52] Everything else.

[00:23:53] And the harshness probably is more directed at Agatha.

[00:23:57] Yes.

[00:23:57] And that's where you see that the relationship has broken down.

[00:24:00] But yes, you're right.

[00:24:02] With Alice Wu, she is relatively gentle with her.

[00:24:06] And just very matter of fact, plain speaking to her.

[00:24:12] You know?

[00:24:12] You've died.

[00:24:14] And you died protecting someone.

[00:24:19] And you're a protection witch.

[00:24:21] Exactly.

[00:24:21] Yes.

[00:24:22] So she's realized her greatest possibility.

[00:24:26] Protection witch dying protecting someone.

[00:24:28] I liked it.

[00:24:29] But we do also have a bit of a conversation.

[00:24:32] So Agatha leaves and goes outside.

[00:24:34] Jen and Billy are talking just after the end of the last trial where Lillia died.

[00:24:39] And we learn a little bit more about death.

[00:24:41] We learn, Jen, saying the green witch is about growth and decay of all living things.

[00:24:46] So when death said or when Rio introduced herself to everybody, she said she is the green witch.

[00:24:51] That does kind of jibe with this a bit.

[00:24:54] She is the green witch.

[00:24:55] It's all about growth and decay of all living things.

[00:24:57] So she is the biggest of all green witches because she is death.

[00:25:01] Yeah, exactly.

[00:25:02] Interesting.

[00:25:02] But, I mean, you have here then this deal being done with death between death and Agatha.

[00:25:12] Because the whole point here is that Billy is seen by death as a violation because he's stolen a second life in William Kaplan.

[00:25:25] And he's going to try and do that again to try and find Tommy.

[00:25:29] And he can't be allowed to do it twice.

[00:25:31] So, you know, he's kind of disrupting.

[00:25:35] I think she calls it he's disrupting the sacred balance.

[00:25:38] Yes.

[00:25:39] Which I really hope this isn't like the sacred timeline.

[00:25:42] I hope we're not introducing another concept.

[00:25:45] As soon as she said sacred balance, I was like, is this like Loki?

[00:25:50] It kind of reminded me of it.

[00:25:51] Absolutely.

[00:25:52] And I think that is now a thing in the MCU.

[00:25:55] There is, you know, like Doctor Strange saying there's only one option out of the 14 million options to save us from Thanos.

[00:26:02] You know, like Loki saying the sacred timeline.

[00:26:05] And now we have death saying there is a sacred balance that she needs to maintain, which we understood this is part of the reason why she was chasing down the witches, because they live a longer life than most other people.

[00:26:15] They should be dead far earlier.

[00:26:17] But which is like Lilia who've lived for centuries and Jen and Agatha are all people that shouldn't be alive in the world today.

[00:26:25] But they've had a much longer life than others.

[00:26:27] That's why death is particularly in need for them.

[00:26:30] At least that's my speculation.

[00:26:31] And we'll talk a little bit more about the kind of deal Agatha has, because that's still a bit hazy for me.

[00:26:37] But the deal that she makes with death here is.

[00:26:41] Because death can't take Billy, she can't kill him.

[00:26:44] If she kills him, he'll reincarnate.

[00:26:47] So she doesn't actually get the life that she that she wants to have.

[00:26:50] She makes a deal with her that she will convince Billy to give himself up willing.

[00:26:54] Yes.

[00:26:55] At the end of the road, as long as they're allowed to complete this task, complete this trip on the to the end of the road, then she will hand over.

[00:27:01] Billy willingly to death.

[00:27:03] Yes.

[00:27:04] But in return, it's that she or Agatha is allowed to go and be free.

[00:27:10] Yeah.

[00:27:10] And not have to deal with death, her former lover.

[00:27:16] Yeah.

[00:27:16] And when the time comes where she does that, she doesn't want to see her face.

[00:27:20] Yeah.

[00:27:21] So interesting.

[00:27:22] Interesting.

[00:27:22] Yeah.

[00:27:23] And I thought there was there is that moment of sadness almost that comes across death when she hears this from Agatha.

[00:27:31] It's not only that their relationship is broken down and that Agatha hates her.

[00:27:34] It is that she never wants to see her again ever.

[00:27:37] Yeah.

[00:27:37] And I think there's always been this bit between the conversations or in between the words that are being said that you feel like Rio death wants to get back with Agatha.

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:49] I think so.

[00:27:50] I think that's.

[00:27:51] But in this moment, it's again, to what extent does anyone trust Agatha?

[00:27:59] Yeah.

[00:28:00] You know, because we've had this all along.

[00:28:02] We have.

[00:28:02] You know, where Agatha's reputation proceeds.

[00:28:08] She is the covenless witch.

[00:28:10] She is the witch that kills all the witches.

[00:28:13] Yeah.

[00:28:14] And here she is effectively making a deal with death to betray Billy.

[00:28:22] And I don't.

[00:28:23] And I think this is interesting.

[00:28:24] And I certainly will come to a bit later.

[00:28:27] But I, in this moment, believe that Billy wouldn't trust Agatha.

[00:28:33] Yeah.

[00:28:33] You know, because of everything that's happened along the road previously.

[00:28:38] Yeah.

[00:28:38] And the warnings from Jen, the warnings from Lilia, you know, seeing his reaction to Agatha as well over various things that have happened along the road, like, you know, the death of Alice Wu.

[00:28:52] So this is the intrigue here for me is, is Agatha so untrustworthy that she will effectively sell out Billy?

[00:29:07] And the likelihood is, is that it's a yes.

[00:29:11] Well, exactly.

[00:29:11] Exactly.

[00:29:12] Although there's just two last little points I want to make about this section here.

[00:29:17] One is that death says to Agatha, why do you let them believe these things about you?

[00:29:22] So it's like her saying to her, you know, everybody seems to think you're this bad person who killed your son or sacrificed your son for a longer life.

[00:29:32] Why do you let them believe all of these bad things about you?

[00:29:35] So death has always seen the good side of Agatha almost.

[00:29:38] So the fact that she is untrustworthy or the fact that she's maintained this reputation of being untrustworthy, death seems to be saying to her, no, that's not, that's not the real you.

[00:29:49] I know the real you.

[00:29:50] And then one other tiny thing in here is just that when death makes her exit, it's the reveal that the road doesn't really exist because she walks up to the side of the road and just cuts her way out like it's a stage.

[00:30:02] Yes, exactly.

[00:30:03] And I like that.

[00:30:03] It's just a little subtle touch that the road isn't what you thought it was for the season so far.

[00:30:09] And by the end of the episode, you know that it's not, that doesn't exist.

[00:30:11] Agreed.

[00:30:12] But I just like that little touch as she says goodbye and cuts her way out.

[00:30:15] Yeah, definitely.

[00:30:16] Exit stage left, pursued by Bear.

[00:30:18] And on to spell number two.

[00:30:21] Exactly.

[00:30:22] The end of the road, the final trial.

[00:30:25] Yeah, I thought this was quite interesting because we have them all grouping back up together, going on the journey again, and then suddenly they're back at the start.

[00:30:34] They're back at their shoes at the beginning of the road.

[00:30:36] And technically there isn't a final trial as such.

[00:30:40] We had seen it in all the previous episodes of them going into a trial to get past it, to get to the end of the road.

[00:30:47] What's happening here is they get to the end of the road and then go into the trial to earn their gifts, to earn the thing that they need to, to leave the road almost.

[00:30:54] So it's slightly different.

[00:30:56] This seems to be Agatha's trial, as she says at the end, this is my trial to pass.

[00:31:01] But everybody does their piece and exits the road at this point.

[00:31:06] Were you kind of shocked by this moment when they arrive back at their shoes at the beginning of the road, John?

[00:31:15] What do you think of it?

[00:31:16] No, I like this.

[00:31:18] I mean, I think that circularity of the road makes sense to me.

[00:31:26] The path isn't always in one direction away from the starting point.

[00:31:34] That you sometimes come back to that beginning.

[00:31:37] But you're coming back to that beginning or that moment having changed because you've been through the trials along the way.

[00:31:47] Absolutely.

[00:31:47] And here we get...

[00:31:49] Maybe the trial was the friends that we made along the way.

[00:31:51] Exactly.

[00:31:51] And then you have this final trial, which is that you can do something differently.

[00:31:59] And actually in this moment, and Agatha calling it out as her trial, it's that Agatha, unbeknowing with Jen, helps her.

[00:32:12] With Billy, she helps him and she helps herself.

[00:32:16] Well, yes.

[00:32:17] You know?

[00:32:17] She creates life from death.

[00:32:19] Exactly.

[00:32:20] That's the big task.

[00:32:20] So I really, I thought this made sense to me.

[00:32:23] And I like that, you know, it cleared up Jen's story.

[00:32:27] So as to why the doctor, you know, she couldn't figure out how this doctor was able to bind her.

[00:32:33] And people were saying, well, it's in your head and all that.

[00:32:36] And then you suddenly see a sheepish Agatha because she realizes, oh, you were passing through Boston at that time as well.

[00:32:46] Yeah.

[00:32:47] And that, you know, she would bind witches for cash, even though she is a witch, so that she could get a bit of greenback, you know, effectively.

[00:32:55] I think by the end of the ninth episode, we've learned that Agatha really doesn't care for witches as such.

[00:33:00] She really doesn't care about their lives.

[00:33:02] She's, as we said earlier on, and as the teen calls her, she is a covenless witch.

[00:33:07] I just called him the teen again for the first time in three episodes.

[00:33:09] As Billy says, she's a covenless witch.

[00:33:11] She doesn't care about other witches.

[00:33:12] So the idea of her taking banknotes for binding witches, it makes sense.

[00:33:18] Again, by the end of the ninth episode, you've kind of seen how bad she's been to witches over the centuries.

[00:33:24] I do love the opening of it, of this trial, when they all roll out in body bags and the teen gets out instantly and Agatha gets out immediately.

[00:33:33] And they're all kind of freaked out by being in the body bags.

[00:33:36] And then Jen comes, get the zip open and Agatha turns around to Billy and goes, don't take away her struggle by helping her out of the body bag.

[00:33:45] That was a really funny little moment from Agatha.

[00:33:48] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:33:49] And I kind of, I love the visual of the grow lights almost being like a huge clock face and the tick down there as we have Jen, as I say, doing the unbinding spell in order to, with a piece of Agatha's long hair, sort of winding it around her wrists.

[00:34:12] It almost reminded me of Harry Potter when you have Bellatrix, Lestrange, putting the unbreakable vow, I think it is, around Snape's wrists.

[00:34:25] It kind of felt very similar to that.

[00:34:28] And I kind of like that.

[00:34:29] I like the fact that, you know, Agatha is almost trying to goad her, put her off, whatever it is.

[00:34:35] And Jen is just very, you know, you hold nothing, just chanting, you hold nothing.

[00:34:42] Love us, yeah.

[00:34:43] As she's doing this unbinding ritual.

[00:34:46] And then there were two, effectively.

[00:34:50] As Jen gets her power back and the road has given her what she was seeking and she leaves the trial.

[00:34:59] Mm-hmm.

[00:34:59] Yeah, yeah.

[00:35:00] And then it's Billy's turn.

[00:35:02] And again, as you say, this is Agatha creating life from death.

[00:35:07] Something that's the opposite of what she's been doing for the last 250 years.

[00:35:11] She has brought Jen back, would have killed her at the beginning.

[00:35:16] She's working with Billy to bring Tommy's essence back.

[00:35:20] I love this scene.

[00:35:22] I thought it was a really powerful scene when she's asking him to remember the last time he was with Tommy.

[00:35:27] And it is that moment that we saw in WandaVision when the two of them are put to bed for the final time by Wanda and Vision.

[00:35:34] And they're saying goodbye to each other.

[00:35:36] And we have that guidance from Agatha, you know, listen to his breathing.

[00:35:39] And even when his breathing stops, concentrate on your breathing.

[00:35:42] You won't lose him if you focus on him.

[00:35:44] I just thought it was really interesting.

[00:35:46] And then she guides him to put him into another vessel, similar to the way that he's put himself into the vessel of William Kaplan.

[00:35:52] And there was an interesting little touch from Agatha there as well when she's trying to guide Billy.

[00:35:57] And Billy says, I don't know how I did it the last time.

[00:36:00] How am I going to do it again?

[00:36:01] And she kind of says, well, that's just how magic works, isn't it?

[00:36:03] You never know how you did it, but let's work together.

[00:36:07] And eventually they find a draining boy.

[00:36:10] And this, I think, is interesting because this is obviously the thing that's going to be followed up in future.

[00:36:14] In either a future series, either the Vision TV show or maybe an Agatha season two.

[00:36:21] It's that the boy that he puts Tommy into is being bullied and dies by drowning.

[00:36:27] And you hear Billy really worried about it because he says his life will be hard.

[00:36:31] He has no one to care for me.

[00:36:33] He has no family.

[00:36:33] He has no one around to take care of from.

[00:36:36] Yeah, but he's also concerned that he's killing this boy so that his own brother, Tommy, can live.

[00:36:43] But then disappears and doesn't have the question answered.

[00:36:50] I love the fact that Agatha answers that question with him absent and says sometimes boys die.

[00:36:59] And, you know, like it's really kind of poignant, really, in a sense.

[00:37:07] Billy is finding this vessel.

[00:37:11] I mean, it's ultimately what perturbed death was that, you know, Billy can actually give Tommy another life by using this drowned boy's body.

[00:37:23] Yeah.

[00:37:23] And finding it.

[00:37:25] I love the way that it's kind of, you know, Billy's going, it's dark.

[00:37:28] I can't see.

[00:37:30] I can't find this other life.

[00:37:32] You know, gradually then you just, that darkness makes way to the flashes of the kid being bullied and drowned.

[00:37:39] And then obviously that moment where Tommy is with that boy's body and it all, again, then there's one.

[00:37:50] Yeah.

[00:37:50] You're down to one.

[00:37:52] And it was really good.

[00:37:54] Yeah.

[00:37:55] I really enjoyed these for sure.

[00:37:57] Yeah.

[00:37:58] Yeah.

[00:37:58] And then it's Agatha's turn.

[00:38:00] Yes.

[00:38:00] Just one thing, I don't think we said it earlier on.

[00:38:02] One thing that I just thought was interesting.

[00:38:04] Agatha does say this room is her basement very early on in the trial.

[00:38:07] You know, all the rest of them had been houses that they'd gone into on the road.

[00:38:11] But Agatha very early on says there's no place like home where she looks around the room, even though it looks nothing like her actual basement.

[00:38:17] I guess you can tell by the size of it.

[00:38:19] I think it's the exit.

[00:38:20] Yeah.

[00:38:20] I think it's more the exit.

[00:38:22] Yeah.

[00:38:22] And also another reference back to the Wizard of Oz.

[00:38:26] Of course.

[00:38:26] Yeah.

[00:38:26] Toto.

[00:38:28] Of course.

[00:38:29] But it's her turn and she has only seconds left.

[00:38:34] And in the locket that she's been holding for these hundred years, with the lock of her son's hair, of Nikki's hair, there's a dandelion seed underneath his hair.

[00:38:46] And she uses that to grow in the room to, again, create life from death.

[00:38:50] The locket that has held the hair of her dead son brings new life into the world.

[00:38:55] So, again, taking the two episodes together, I think this is really important for Agatha, for the growth of Agatha herself as a character.

[00:39:03] And the change that we're seeing at this stage after hundreds of years of her being and doing the things she's done, there is a change that comes to Agatha here.

[00:39:11] Absolutely.

[00:39:11] And interestingly as well, she escapes the road but doesn't have her prize, which is magic.

[00:39:21] Yeah.

[00:39:21] And I think with that, on to spell number three, because she needs that magic to defend herself pretty quickly.

[00:39:30] Yeah.

[00:39:30] Because we have the battle with death.

[00:39:33] Yes, we do.

[00:39:34] Between Agatha and Rio, or a.k.a. death.

[00:39:39] Mm-hmm.

[00:39:40] And she's there trying to sort of counter death here, and she doesn't have the magic.

[00:39:49] She doesn't have her power.

[00:39:52] And I love the fact that you just have Rio cackling on top of the roof.

[00:39:57] That's great, yeah.

[00:39:57] I love the moment where she floats down from the roof as well.

[00:40:01] I think there's so much to enjoy in this battle.

[00:40:05] What a costume for death, though.

[00:40:07] It looks so, so cool.

[00:40:09] And I know we saw a little flash of it last week when the character was revealed for the first time of the skull going over Aubrey Plaza's face.

[00:40:18] But it's so well done.

[00:40:20] It's really, really cool.

[00:40:21] It looks really cool.

[00:40:22] I also like 18th century Green Witch as well.

[00:40:26] I love the cloak and I kind of, the whole dress was just really, really well done.

[00:40:33] Well, I was going to talk about it later on, but I'll talk about it here because I thought one of the interesting little costume touches.

[00:40:37] The 18th century Death does look like her cloak is made of moss almost.

[00:40:41] Yeah, exactly.

[00:40:42] Whereas this version of Death looks like a tree.

[00:40:46] It looks like the way the cloth is.

[00:40:49] It's not a pure green.

[00:40:50] It's this multicolored tree look to it.

[00:40:54] That's what it feels like.

[00:40:55] It feels like bark rather than moss.

[00:40:58] It's got browns and greens in there.

[00:41:00] Yeah, exactly.

[00:41:01] Beautiful, beautiful costume.

[00:41:02] The other costume we have is the full on Wiccan costume as well.

[00:41:08] Yes, we do.

[00:41:09] Because we have Wiccan, a.k.a. Billy, a.k.a. William, coming in to help protect Agatha here.

[00:41:19] I think that looks so cool.

[00:41:21] It's one of the most comic accurate MCU costumes that we've seen for quite a long time.

[00:41:26] A lot of them don't translate very well to the screen and aren't directly taken over from the comic.

[00:41:32] But this is like his first appearance on the front cover of The Young Avengers.

[00:41:37] This is exactly what it looks like.

[00:41:39] Part of the crayon.

[00:41:40] The crayon is more stylized for the show.

[00:41:41] The thing is as well, he's unaware of why Rio is attacking Agatha here.

[00:41:49] Because ultimately, the standoff between Agatha and Death is because Agatha hasn't upheld her end of the deal that she made.

[00:42:00] So it's Agatha that's going to be coming with, you're coming with me effectively, Death says.

[00:42:07] Because Billy is not there to be taken.

[00:42:11] So I like this.

[00:42:13] But it also plays out a bit later on in this battle.

[00:42:17] Because Billy doesn't know why this is happening.

[00:42:22] But comes to the rescue anyway.

[00:42:24] And it's great to see the costume.

[00:42:26] But it's also then, again, interestingly, that he trusts her to feed from his power.

[00:42:36] And she does cut it off in time.

[00:42:38] But you do see him aging and withering from the power being taken.

[00:42:43] It's quite subtle.

[00:42:45] Yeah, it is subtle.

[00:42:46] And I think part of that, I know it was a joke earlier on in the season about when he was in his Maleficent costume.

[00:42:52] Where he was talking about his cheekbones.

[00:42:53] And saying that, you know, if you can wear this costume, you've got great cheekbones.

[00:42:57] But interestingly, as she's kind of sucking the life out of him, it's supposed to be on the cheekbones that you're seeing.

[00:43:03] You're supposed to see his face kind of hollow in, as we see in the ninth episode.

[00:43:07] As the essence is pulled out of other witches, it is their faces start to sink.

[00:43:11] But I guess because he's quite a thin guy with good cheekbones, you don't notice it as much.

[00:43:16] But I like the subtlety of it.

[00:43:18] You're not sure whether it is going to be Agatha taking all of his power or whether she will relent.

[00:43:24] Whether she will, whether his trust is placed in the right person.

[00:43:28] One other interesting touch that I like here is that the neighbors are looking on going, is it happening again?

[00:43:33] I wasn't sure whether they could see Rhea or not.

[00:43:36] I don't think they could.

[00:43:38] I think they just see a storm coming in.

[00:43:40] And they're worried that this is like the battle that Agatha had with Wanda at the end of season one of WandaVision.

[00:43:46] So I just like that the neighbors are going, what is going on?

[00:43:50] Please don't say we're going to be in for more magic spells that will destroy our lives again.

[00:43:54] Yeah, and it's interesting that sort of when Billy is leaving, you see them all looking at him.

[00:44:01] Like they don't recognize him because he looks like William Kaplan, of course.

[00:44:06] Not an older version of the Billy that they knew.

[00:44:10] And equally, he doesn't recognize them.

[00:44:15] He has no memory of anything before.

[00:44:19] So he's...

[00:44:19] Well, he just kind of puts his hoodie up and walks away.

[00:44:21] But he doesn't talk to them.

[00:44:23] I guess he's still a teen.

[00:44:25] He's still a teen though.

[00:44:26] He just puts his hoodie up and ignores all the adults that are around him.

[00:44:29] Yeah, exactly.

[00:44:30] The smelly adults.

[00:44:31] Exactly.

[00:44:32] But I just kind of thought it was, you know, given that we had young Billy living as a neighbor to all of these other characters that he might have said hello or said something.

[00:44:42] But again, he's probably hiding that.

[00:44:44] He doesn't want them to know who he is, I suppose.

[00:44:46] But I just thought it was interesting that they had that.

[00:44:48] But the fight that we get here between Agatha and Death when Billy has handed over some of his power to Agatha, I just thought was really interesting.

[00:44:57] There's one line that I didn't hear the first time we watched it, but saw in the subtitles where Death says to Agatha, oh, power looks good on you.

[00:45:06] And Agatha responds with, yeah, baby, everything looks good on me.

[00:45:09] Yeah, I know.

[00:45:10] It's a great Agatha line.

[00:45:11] It's really good.

[00:45:12] And it's all kind of done in the background because, yeah, Death has just kind of like flicked Billy through the greenhouse effectively.

[00:45:22] I like that he gets his own back and flicks her through the house though.

[00:45:24] So it just shows he was caught off guard.

[00:45:27] It's not that he's not powerful.

[00:45:28] Not absolutely.

[00:45:29] But ultimately, Agatha is there saying, you know, this is futile.

[00:45:34] You can't fight Death.

[00:45:35] And you have Death coming back saying, you know, I want my soul effectively.

[00:45:42] And I like Billy steps up to say, take me.

[00:45:45] I mean, this is kind of interesting.

[00:45:48] I'm not entirely sure I figured out why certain why this was the case.

[00:45:53] But he says, take me.

[00:45:55] And I like the fact that Agatha effectively goes to betray Billy and says, OK, then that's fine.

[00:46:02] Starts to walk off.

[00:46:03] It is to the point before that, you know, Agatha does actually betray him here.

[00:46:11] Yes.

[00:46:11] And walks off.

[00:46:13] It's only with his mind talking and infiltrating into her mind saying, is this how Nicky died?

[00:46:22] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:23] It kind of stays her feet effectively from walking further away and turning around to snog death effectively.

[00:46:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:34] And but it's interesting because she was there ready to betray him.

[00:46:39] She was.

[00:46:40] I took that as this is has been Agatha's personality for so long that she's willing to just play along with it further.

[00:46:49] So there's two characters in the scene who both see who Agatha really is underneath all the bluster,

[00:46:55] underneath all of the cover that she's put on herself for the last 250 years.

[00:47:01] one is death as we said that moment when death said to her why do you let people believe these

[00:47:06] things about you yeah and the other here is billy because billy is is holding agatha and telling her

[00:47:12] she's a good person and she says you're the only one that believes that of me nobody else in the

[00:47:17] world believes that i'm a good person so yeah it's almost as if when agatha is walking away and

[00:47:22] sacrificing billy and she is sacrificing absolutely but it's almost as if well when he goes away

[00:47:27] there's nobody else in the world that will believe this i can go on with my immortal life and she's

[00:47:31] made that agreement with rio with death that she will live a very long life if billy is taken yeah

[00:47:39] and i think as well it comes back to something from the episode nine where you know she says how billy

[00:47:47] reminds her of nicholas in some of the things that he says and some of his mannerisms so in that moment

[00:47:56] that also makes sense to me yeah um that that would stay her you know and um but it isn't it isn't just

[00:48:05] i suppose that there's there's more to it than just the line of billy um saying to her is they say nicky

[00:48:11] died it's it's much more to it than just i said one words and she changed her mind it's that choice

[00:48:16] that she makes and we'll definitely talk about this in episode nine it's the choice that she made after

[00:48:20] nicky died to then just go full bore bad guy kill everything in her wake to make sure that her life

[00:48:27] lasts forever she's realizing in this moment that her son would never have wanted her to do that

[00:48:31] and billy is reminding her of that that her son was really compassionate we saw that or we will see

[00:48:37] that as we talk about it in the next piece but it's that moment of realization for her that actually

[00:48:43] maybe i've made the wrong choice to stay alive by sacrificing other people and i think this

[00:48:49] in a sense so i really like these two episodes but it to me it's that they're out of kilter okay um

[00:48:56] that episode nine to me feels like something that should have been sprinkled lovingly through the whole

[00:49:04] of this season okay and in some way and apart from the right at the end and in order for that to make

[00:49:16] more sense okay as episode eight watching episode eight yes you've got episode nine then and so on but

[00:49:24] it's like here's the dump after the fact to tell you what and i kind of and because to me up till then

[00:49:33] all the way through then it's you cannot trust agatha and billy is being told this yeah and he's even said

[00:49:46] it to her so anyway nonetheless it is rectified for me in episode nine i like this anyway because i do

[00:49:55] think the death of firstly the betrayal of agatha even though i anticipated it i was surprised it still

[00:50:05] that she did because i thought they were kind of moving past that but i think it was always the danger

[00:50:12] um but also the death of um of agatha i just thought was really well done i thought it was dead striking

[00:50:23] really and i kind of wasn't expecting her to die and of course we see that she doesn't fully die her

[00:50:32] corporal form is retained in ghost form absolutely um which is really cool um certainly given um

[00:50:42] the video game midnight sons well yes where we see her in ghost form as well but in comic books the

[00:50:49] reason why the video game took that is because in comic books agatha is a ghost and has been a guide

[00:50:55] for wanda she she is in the ghostly form she's been around for many many years and there are times when

[00:51:00] she is a ghost but yeah it's just fun because we played about 100 hours of midnight sons i think we

[00:51:05] played it through twice yeah and agatha is a really central character in that and this is the only form of

[00:51:10] agatha i've ever seen in a lot of is that version in the video game so um so now we're like oh she's

[00:51:15] they've now got a comic accurate ghostly version of yeah exactly which i really liked and i also like the

[00:51:22] fact and i know it's probably an obvious pun but i love the fact that it's the kiss of death

[00:51:26] uh that she gets quite literally uh that and that's uh what what takes i love all the the kind of

[00:51:32] the the flower and shroom uh mound that forms um the in the garden i just think it's really

[00:51:40] pretty absolutely the green witch the uh goddess of growth and decay yeah um and that's exactly what

[00:51:45] happened i thought it was cool um and again in retrospect after watching the ninth episode i like that

[00:51:50] we have rio death standing over the grave of agatha for a moment um there's definitely a tear in her

[00:51:57] eye at that moment as well uh very similar to agatha over uh nikki's grave later and she turns to billy

[00:52:04] say you know you may go i don't need to collect your soul yes she does and billy goes back home and

[00:52:12] um you know we get kind of the wrap up that you would think this is the final episode um billy is

[00:52:18] talking to his parents saying you know how sorry he is and uh explains to them what happened uh off

[00:52:23] screen and then goes back to the bedroom and then that's the moment when everything flips on its head

[00:52:28] um and the real reveal happens and this is partly why i think episode nine works really well for me

[00:52:34] because just like the road itself episode eight leading into episode nine makes this show it's a

[00:52:43] circular show um if you didn't catch the idea that billy had created the road uh earlier on in the

[00:52:50] season that we when we were talking about if you didn't catch that and you get to episode nine you

[00:52:54] find all of the cons and all of the twists and turns you're going to want to go back to the start

[00:52:57] of the season and watch agatha's performance throughout the season so far all of the times

[00:53:03] that she was told um you lead us on the road you're the guide and avoided anything like that

[00:53:09] avoided providing any guidance because she'd never been on the road before yeah um i mean it's

[00:53:14] certainly been signposted for sure yeah because even you know not only about uh billy's room or

[00:53:22] william's room and seeing that but it it's also um the notion that agatha really didn't know what she

[00:53:30] was doing on the road as well absolutely and she was trying to she wasn't doing any of the tasks the

[00:53:35] first task she tried to avoid being involved in it because it must have just come as an absolute

[00:53:39] shock to her that she's suddenly on this uh famed road and being told you've been here hundreds

[00:53:44] of times before or you've been here before and we know you can you can lead us so yeah um so i

[00:53:48] thought i thought that was a really good moment when we have his realization when he's looking through

[00:53:53] um looking through all of the posters in his room and going hang on a second did i do this and then

[00:53:57] we hear the cackling of uh of agatha in the background yeah no i i really enjoyed the walk through

[00:54:03] of all those markers um of the road in his bedroom yeah i thought that was really good yeah definitely

[00:54:10] i know we're only in the middle of our spells john but that's kind of the end of episode

[00:54:14] eight would you like to give your rating for episode eight do you defend episode eight

[00:54:19] oh i do i give this four road closures out of five um yeah i really enjoyed this um as i say i i

[00:54:28] thought it was very visual still and i i liked how it concluded i love the fight between rio

[00:54:36] and uh agatha i like seeing sort of billy in full uniform effectively i like the little twist um

[00:54:47] here and final reveal that it is billy who's able like his mother to manipulate his and other people's

[00:54:55] reality i love the call out from lily's uh reading to him the card reading that she did where it calls

[00:55:01] back to her going you are the magician you can turn all your goals into reality which is what he

[00:55:06] quite literally exactly um it was really good uh just sort of piecing all that together um you know

[00:55:14] it was really good i think for for me um i kind of just need the latter part of episode nine would

[00:55:24] have bolted on really nicely here yeah with with that and the the 18th century stuff just peppered

[00:55:33] throughout to give that sort of developing story of agatha and her son right right and but that's just

[00:55:43] my own personal view it's easy to say um it's difficult to write that you know and but i still like

[00:55:51] episode nine you know and we'll get to that but um this i really enjoyed give it four road closures

[00:56:00] out of five well let's get on to our uh our next spell then let's get on to episode nine with spell

[00:56:05] number four agatha's other deal with death yeah back in uh 1750 we have a pregnant agatha um running

[00:56:14] through the woods or uh seems to be really in pain um very close to delivery of her child i guess

[00:56:20] as well but she's on her own she is a covenless witch and she's running through the forest here

[00:56:26] pregnant um the one thing that i was really surprised about because this episode is so focused on giving

[00:56:33] you our backstory of who agatha is and why she becomes the let's say villainous character that she

[00:56:38] is when we meet her first in wandavision why she is that villainous character that's what this episode

[00:56:43] is all about what i was really surprised about is she's already in the relationship with death

[00:56:48] and death has already given her as she described it more protection than any other living being

[00:56:53] um i kind of thought we'd get that meeting of her and death we get a bit of their relationship maybe

[00:56:59] at some point during this flashback episode and why agatha has been gifted with this uh long lasting

[00:57:06] life um the inability to die uh or why she's killing witches and that's allowing her to extend her life

[00:57:15] it's all peppered in in dialogue um to nicholas but she dumbs it down a bit for him because he's only six

[00:57:21] um when they're having their conversations she doesn't really say why she's doing what she's doing

[00:57:26] but she says she does it to keep her alive and at the beginning here she's having so much trouble with

[00:57:35] the birth of her son we see death arriving to take nicholas away um to take agatha's son and agatha's

[00:57:43] pleading with death saying you can't take him please don't take him yeah and all death officer all death

[00:57:49] can offer is to give time with her son no i mean this was um i i found this really kind of affecting

[00:57:57] actually because um i think that kind of brutality of death here yeah but i know this is going to sound a bit weird i think but

[00:58:11] but the beauty of what she's wearing with the green and i think it's that kind of stark contrast and i think that's why

[00:58:19] um i um i know i noticed that sort of bright green flowing cloak um you know and the kind of corseted

[00:58:29] dress with that intricate lacework and it really stood out and it but then it stood out on you know in

[00:58:38] contrast to kind of in a sense the the coldness of

[00:58:44] the the kind of brutality of taking an unborn child you know which is what agatha is pleasing for and i just thought this was

[00:58:55] really kind of stark and that's why then agatha holding the newborn nicholas but realizing um that she's only got so much

[00:59:06] time you know it's the tragedy of that and we get that um where she says you know i can um i can trick a feeble

[00:59:17] mind into doing what i what i want i can do all these spells have all this power um but i can't divine when

[00:59:27] she'll return you know i don't know when death is going to come back for you yeah and it's like living on

[00:59:35] that knife edge you know it can be and i suppose that's the that's the interesting way that i take

[00:59:41] these scenes and i don't think of this as much magic here um what death offers agatha in this moment

[00:59:51] is what every parent has when their child is born um none of us knows how long our time is going to be

[00:59:59] on earth none of us knows how long we're going to have with our children or with our parents um no

[01:00:05] yeah you know absolutely when your child is born you could die certainly not in 1750 absolutely she

[01:00:11] could have died childbirth right there after nick but that's what i assumed was happening that's why

[01:00:16] death showed up so she would never have any time with um with nicholas it wasn't so it was almost going

[01:00:26] to be a stillborn um yeah so actually death does provide life to nicholas but on a time-limited basis

[01:00:37] because she should have taken him then yes and all the way through it it's the mention that you look

[01:00:46] sickly or exactly you look ill you're you know you need some you need to be fed and to to put color in

[01:00:55] your cheeks it's that sickly look yeah and and absolutely agatha enjoys all the time she has and

[01:01:03] that's really wonderful but it's also it's it's the other side it's the ying and the yang of that where

[01:01:09] yes she's making to some degree the most of her time she's using him as a a law to to kill people and i do

[01:01:18] like the fact that you have nicholas say well why do you kill witches and she says to survive and he's

[01:01:25] like well can't we survive with those witches without you killing them and of course because of

[01:01:31] the deal with death you know that she'll provide these dead bodies yeah well that's again that's

[01:01:38] the thing i wish there's a little more clarity on yeah i wish there was just that scene where we saw

[01:01:41] the deal agreed you know um because it feels like a third deal there's a deal that she will provide

[01:01:48] um the bodies of witches because agatha is able to take all their power and wither them on the vine

[01:01:58] and which means they die quicker than what they would normally do yeah and there's a deal

[01:02:06] for nicholas's life yeah and in that moment as well as then the deal we see with death to to try and

[01:02:15] give billy's life over to her so yeah yeah um but i wish we'd seen the deal because yeah you could

[01:02:20] the other way the show has explained this to us is if she lives with a coven of witches at some point

[01:02:26] she'll annoy them enough that they'll attack her and she'll suck the life out of them and take their

[01:02:30] magic and then they will try and kill her again um or they would kill nicky if the two of them were

[01:02:35] there if she did this in their company um or they even learned that she'd done it before that they would

[01:02:41] kill her and nicky that's that's kind of what the show is telling us but it does seem like she had

[01:02:47] made this deal that she can live technically she can live forever if she continues to provide

[01:02:53] the bodies of witches is what that's that's what i believe the offer is and what the what the deal is

[01:02:57] with uh with rio with death um but i just wish that had been a little bit more clear um and also

[01:03:05] it feels like that deal extends to nicky when she kills witches and takes their essence takes their

[01:03:13] power it keeps nicky alive for a bit longer as well is what it seems like yeah i i didn't really

[01:03:18] think of it like that but you're right because the time where he then just doesn't want to go

[01:03:26] through with the ruse yeah and so agatha gets her sort of five five portions a day and then you have

[01:03:36] death coming for him that night yes yeah so and it could be it could be linked yeah interestingly i

[01:03:45] know this i don't know whether this means anything again because this is the last episode of the season

[01:03:49] so i don't know whether we'll ever return to this but interestingly that moment when he refuses and says

[01:03:54] he's too sick he says his mother needs him home and that night he dies and his mother agatha is in the

[01:04:02] room there with him rio and agatha have had a relationship in the past and i wonder if that is

[01:04:08] him saying my other mother yeah possibly yeah rio needs him home if he knew because he walks out the

[01:04:15] door and disappears yeah um as agatha walks out with him so i don't know i just it was just something

[01:04:21] about the way that line was delivered by uh by nicky where he says his mother needs him home

[01:04:26] um i just thought that was that was uh representative of the couple that's there of agatha and ria so

[01:04:31] um but the other big thing that happens throughout this here is just this really cute um traveling

[01:04:38] tale or traveling song that nicky kicks kicks off yeah the windy road yeah and it's instant like you

[01:04:46] you catch it instantly they've done such a great job winding the song into the series so far the

[01:04:51] minute he starts to sing it you go oh that's the that's the witch's road that he's singing um

[01:04:56] and this it turns out to be their song they created together as a lot of parents do with the kids

[01:05:02] having a little song together a little story that they create together um for their travel throughout

[01:05:07] the harsh life that they have living in forests everywhere that's it i mean i like that they sing and

[01:05:13] develop it together you know as they're traveling together on the road and it's to entertain themselves

[01:05:22] but then you know the last uh moment we see it being used to entertain a tavern yeah and to effectively

[01:05:31] pique the interests of of other witches who were there yeah and to lure them into agatha's

[01:05:39] power hungry um and and i kind of i quite like this i thought it's it's both cute and then it's it's

[01:05:53] manipulated more and more by agatha um to the point that with the death of nicky yeah that evening

[01:06:02] then we kind of have that montage of her then using the law as in l-o-r-e uh-huh because i'm northern

[01:06:12] you see so if i say the law they sound exactly the same and so you couldn't do that very famous podcast

[01:06:19] no exactly so law as in the law of the the witch's road l-o-r-e yes you know it just um

[01:06:30] pulls in as we see over time all these all the witches and to the sort of vacuum that is agatha

[01:06:38] yeah yeah absolutely just just before that that moment though as after nicky dies i do think there's

[01:06:44] a really stunning scene that catherine han plays after he dies where she's shouting going no i want

[01:06:51] more time um yeah you know and i think again as i said ron regardless of this being a show about

[01:06:57] magic i kind of think that's what happens if you're a parent that sadly has lost a child um no

[01:07:02] matter when it happens that you want more time even though you've always been told that your time is

[01:07:07] limited on the planet um you know that it will never be enough um you will always want more time

[01:07:12] and i think there's just the way catherine han play plays that moment and then as she's sitting by

[01:07:17] nicky's grave mourning him she says the line that defines the rest of her character defines the next

[01:07:23] centuries which is i bury my heart here with you my child um agatha is often described as being

[01:07:31] heartless um from wandavision all the way through to uh to agatha all along she's being described as

[01:07:36] heartless many many times um and that's the moment her heart died with her child dying is is what she's

[01:07:42] saying there um and very quickly a witch comes up and says to her hang on a second i noticed that that

[01:07:47] song that that's sung by agatha she she recognized that song you must know the witch's road um and

[01:07:53] agatha concocts her plan very quickly in her head um this is a great way to to lure in covens um and

[01:07:59] it's wonderfully filmed these uh these centuries of uh of taking witches powers um absolutely and just

[01:08:06] gets more powerful and as it goes into the singing of the witches road by um by lilia alice jen

[01:08:15] and mrs heart um and then it actually working and you sort of transported back to that that moment

[01:08:21] earlier in in the season so yeah it was really good and we get the signature catherine hand look

[01:08:27] straight into the camera and go wow like um just has that moment going hang on a second how the hell

[01:08:33] did this work i created this this song with my child and suddenly there is a path into the witch's

[01:08:38] road how the hell did that happen uh love it love that moment it's it's the opposite of a wink into the

[01:08:44] camera it's a shock faced into the camera um so really enjoyed that and that takes us right up to

[01:08:48] date and right into our spell number five the true end of the road yes and we're back to the end of last

[01:08:54] episode with uh with agatha in uh in billy's room um doing her boo because now she's a ghost

[01:09:01] so we see her um incorporeal form now is that right yeah her translucent form um uh looking very

[01:09:10] different uh from uh from how we've seen her in the past uh but she's getting very starting to get

[01:09:16] used to living in this world and she says you know i died i did die but i took a calculated risk

[01:09:23] yes so even in that moment of seemingly self uh you know um selfless sacrifice she was taking a

[01:09:31] calculated risk that this particular magic would work and she would come back as a ghost but as she says

[01:09:38] still figuring out the rules as she tries to slap billy uh but effectively is giving him a slap

[01:09:46] which was really good i love that yeah and i was wondering what the calculated risk was actually

[01:09:51] that puts that makes a lot more uh a lot more sense she did not sacrifice herself for billy she says

[01:09:56] and and i was wondering was the calculated risk would death really take her given their relationship in

[01:10:02] the past when she goes up and kisses rio kisses death uh would death actually take her i thought that

[01:10:07] was the calculated risk but no it makes it makes sense that she had a backup plan if she died she'd

[01:10:12] come back as a ghost exactly and then it talked you know there's that moment coming back of billy

[01:10:18] um realizing that the road was made by him but him getting um wracked with guilt oh yeah the idea that

[01:10:26] well actually his projection his reality that he created killed um lilia uh on the road alice on

[01:10:37] the road uh and mrs heart as well sure well the lady next door i love that who's that from agatha

[01:10:47] the gardening woman yeah but again i don't know it's i know this is obvious but i will say it because i

[01:10:53] say obvious things all the time all the time now that you've seen the history of agatha up until this

[01:10:57] point how many witches lives she's taken over time the idea that she couldn't remember yeah

[01:11:02] yeah yeah sharon davis couldn't remember her name couldn't particularly place just another dead

[01:11:07] person um you know i kind of get it there yeah definitely and again you have agatha being very

[01:11:13] truthful but you know if you work out you actually saved a life uh jen's life because on day one i was

[01:11:22] doing exactly what i'd done over the course of the previous kind of two and a half centuries three

[01:11:30] three and a half centuries um which was i was going to kill them all to take their power yeah um

[01:11:39] the only one really um lilia sacrificed herself alice well i killed it's mrs heart who is the

[01:11:50] the death yeah the the true i guess non-witch death yeah and that's why she said to billy after

[01:11:57] after she died that's why she said to him um i didn't think you had it in your kid um because

[01:12:02] he killed someone yeah that was you know literally quite quickly after they got on the road uh that's

[01:12:08] when she died but jen is alive and we have a quick flash to jen crawling out from under the ground at

[01:12:14] the opening of westview and flying off very similar to wanda with her powers no definitely

[01:12:19] fly off quite similar to wanda maxima i don't understand why she appeared from under the ground

[01:12:23] because they were underground by agatha's house yeah because they were actually underground um

[01:12:29] that's what the train system that we saw a couple of episodes ago that there was a thing that sharon

[01:12:34] davis said about uh underneath westview the only thing you'll find is a tram system a subway system

[01:12:39] that's our trolley system whatever it was that's um that's been broken down for years and we actually

[01:12:43] saw the trolley system uh jen was beside us and lilia's beside us so um so they were underground

[01:12:49] at some point um just not on the witch's road it was just i guess covered by the um the

[01:12:56] imagination of billy to look like the witch's road so yes they were underground at some point

[01:13:01] but yeah jen's jen's off out in the ether hopefully we'll see her again in the future yeah i hope so

[01:13:06] yeah it'd be great if we it feels as though lilia gave her quite an important tag um you know as the

[01:13:12] future yeah so that would be quite interesting to see if we see jen again yeah but then billy goes

[01:13:21] effectively out being wracked with guilt um like initially so i thought when he was doing the

[01:13:28] pentagram and putting the candles out and everything i thought this was to try and bring back lilia

[01:13:34] alice and mrs heart to undo what he was doing but in the end he's trying to banish agatha to send her

[01:13:43] towards the light to rio's toxic embrace he says and so he's there sort of recat chanting uh the the

[01:13:51] latin to banish agatha you see agatha starting to fade and but then sort of a last gasp attempt to try

[01:14:00] grab the locket that he's got of hers which is the personal item required for the the spell yeah in

[01:14:08] the end he she manages to knock the locket out because you know he's screaming at her why are you

[01:14:16] still here and she's like because i can't face him i nicholas yeah scratch and in that sort of

[01:14:26] outpouring she's able to connect with her locket and knock it out of billy's hand to stop this this

[01:14:34] spell um i think i think billy also stopped it because of that admission from um no absolutely

[01:14:40] absolutely um as i say i just felt this maybe went a little it felt quick it felt a little out of the

[01:14:49] blue um that he's trying to actually banish her here get rid of her and i know that moment and it

[01:14:57] all comes from what we've seen yeah but billy didn't see that but billy didn't see that yeah and

[01:15:08] billy wasn't told about her i mean even if it was done in a way that it was agatha telling yeah

[01:15:14] them of nicholas scratch yeah a bit like agatha actually trying to correct the record that rio has

[01:15:23] said why do you let them think the worst of you and begins to tell her tale well i do also think there's

[01:15:30] a big way it could have been fixed and an easy way it could have fixed uh billy's a mind reader

[01:15:34] we've seen him been able to read everybody's mind so if it just had that moment where he gets the

[01:15:38] rush of the memories that uh we've just seen on screen yeah and then she says oh i can't face

[01:15:44] nicholas you go okay well i understand that because this is all based it all hinges on the choice that

[01:15:51] agatha made to go and destroy every coven of witches and use the song that her son created to take

[01:15:58] out more and more witches over the centuries it all hinges on that decision that she's made that

[01:16:01] she couldn't possibly face her son nicholas who she lost at such a young age um and if you don't

[01:16:07] buy into them if you don't get that then you would think that agatha is just a bad person who

[01:16:14] has no possible redeeming features but this is her moment of redemption the start of her arc of

[01:16:18] redemption let's say i don't think she's ever redeemed during the show agatha all along but

[01:16:22] this moment of her going i couldn't possibly face him as her realizing how bad she's actually been

[01:16:27] since her son died or what she's already and has always known but has suppressed it so much

[01:16:35] and you're right totally totally get that um but it's not in her power it's in billy's

[01:16:44] and billy knows her as the person that

[01:16:49] wonder effectively destroys um and has been told not to trust her so what i mean is it's like

[01:16:56] it's kind of like mental warfare really in the sense that you know for eight episodes we've been

[01:17:02] saying don't trust this person yeah final episodes you do but the point at which you are told to do

[01:17:11] to that she is good and can be trusted is kind of in that final moment and you're like i just feel

[01:17:21] the balance is off possibly yep in the storytelling and not that i disagree with what's happening and

[01:17:29] that that's the thing um and it's easier said than done as i said um i do think it leaves the character

[01:17:35] of agatha in a place where she can still be the same antagonistic agatha that we've seen for

[01:17:42] wandavision and agatha all along she's not redeemed i don't think there's just a moment where billy's

[01:17:46] going to say well i won't banish her i understand somehow um i understand why she doesn't want to be

[01:17:53] want to go and die and then see nicholas and face him and i'm going to team up with her to go and

[01:18:00] find um my brother yeah i know i think it was just like the stairway to heaven sort of oh with the

[01:18:06] bright lights and it's like let's we could be a good team i mean effectively creating a coven of two

[01:18:12] here yes you know which is which is a joke from earlier on in the season when to go and find tommy

[01:18:16] is it is a coven true or coven of two and it's this is a coven of two it's not necessarily a coven

[01:18:22] truth though um i just feel it could have been woven in so this didn't feel like it came out the blue

[01:18:30] okay all right i don't think it came out of the blue myself but i i take it so i understand uh i understand

[01:18:37] but i still enjoyed it yeah yeah and that closes out the episodes the two of them now going off on

[01:18:42] their on their quest to uh to find tommy and i hope they find him soon just by that description

[01:18:46] of um a bullied kid who was drowned by people in an area in a town where he has no family and no

[01:18:54] friends um doesn't bode well for poor tommy suddenly arriving back at least at least when billy

[01:19:00] went into william's body he had parents that were taking care of him and helped him for three years

[01:19:05] and then had a boyfriend who was side by side with him taking care of him tommy doesn't sound like he's

[01:19:10] in anywhere close to that position it's not going to be a good place so hopefully they find him soon

[01:19:14] and we don't just have um agatha all along season two coming in five years time and they're all that

[01:19:20] they're all in their 20s and uh and all the bad things happen to poor tommy but if tommy has the

[01:19:24] powers of the tommy that we know in wantivision he can run away at least yeah and i mean ultimately

[01:19:30] they'll find him in time for young avengers hopefully hopefully although if they take their

[01:19:36] time on that it'll be old avengers new avengers yeah well that's true um any notes anything else

[01:19:42] we haven't talked about that you want to just bring into this final discussion on this no i've

[01:19:46] got uh no notes really um for the rest for the for the the two episodes there's just one cool scene

[01:19:54] one cool moment that i really liked when uh billy's in this banishing place in the basement for for

[01:20:00] agatha i just love that he uses his powers to get his spell book back um just the way he uses

[01:20:06] uses the powers and moves uh to get his spell book back so that he can banish agatha i thought was

[01:20:11] really cool because he left down the road so um so yeah i i also well i should say i also like the

[01:20:17] uh billy uh makes a kind of memorial to um alice lilia and uh sharon do you know the way that was

[01:20:26] done i must say when i watched that a bit of a tear in my eye i thought it was really i thought

[01:20:30] that was a nice touch yeah yeah they seal off the road with this seal of the names of the fallen

[01:20:35] witches yeah um i think actually i do have a another note which is um yeah we have no post

[01:20:40] credits or mid credit scene yeah at all which kind of interesting all season nothing not a one on any

[01:20:47] episode i know at all which is a shock you usually have one uh post credit scene i think i think every

[01:20:53] show that they've had has had one at least uh in one episode but there's never any in this in this

[01:20:58] season um i think the only thing that actually changed was just the title card agatha all along

[01:21:02] in episode um eight when it's revealed or when billy has that moment of realization

[01:21:07] in episode eight the title card of agatha all along goes over his bedroom rather than over the uh the

[01:21:13] forest that we've seen for the other yeah the other seven episodes i thought that was a cool little

[01:21:16] uh change in those credits because nothing else changed um but it was just oh hang on a second

[01:21:21] we're actually just been looking at his wall the whole time rather than looking at the first

[01:21:24] yeah quite cool so john do you defend the finale of agatha all along or the finale of

[01:21:30] wandavision season two as i'm going to be calling it in my head yes uh yes i do i do defend this

[01:21:35] episode um i give it three and a half uh witching wonders out of five and again i really really

[01:21:43] enjoyed this and i loved seeing 1750 agatha i love the backstory with nicholas sometimes i just wonder

[01:21:50] why are shows holding certain things back um you know to me this should have kind of been about

[01:21:58] billy and agatha and that whole showdown with death in westview uh to be honest and to come

[01:22:10] straight back into 1750 love the backstory absolutely love it absolutely wanted it um

[01:22:18] but i kind of wanted that to be sort of as expertly placed and peppered through this

[01:22:27] series as and it's just my own choice um in the same way that you got the hints around billy being

[01:22:39] the one creating okay the road yeah i don't know it felt like as i say like you're being told not to

[01:22:50] put your hand in the fire you don't you don't you don't you don't and then one person says put your

[01:22:54] hand in the fire and then you put your hand in the fire okay despite all everything up until then

[01:23:01] saying don't trust her and you even have agatha being untrustworthy and by seemingly giving billy up

[01:23:11] to death so the whole kind of going off in the sunset to rescue tommy i love it but i just i wanted

[01:23:20] it's kind of it's more a structure thing for me i think on um on on the series but i enjoyed

[01:23:27] everything that was contained in episode nine and actually um seeing that again you know second time

[01:23:37] through it does connect much better yeah uh but i still hold that i think um this would have been nice

[01:23:46] peppered through because as i said at the start this felt like you know the the mythology the tale of

[01:23:55] the witch's road that ultimately is a story but somehow ends up being like you know the lost cities

[01:24:03] of gold you know people go searching for it yeah and it's a manipulation of the reality in the same way

[01:24:10] that uh billy had done through the road and that those two sort of contrasting off one another

[01:24:17] through this show i think would have been really good and that evolution of

[01:24:28] agatha and uh rio's or death's relationship you know i thought would have been really good but yeah

[01:24:37] for me i do defend um this episode uh with three and a half uh witching wonders out of five excellent

[01:24:45] derek uh do you defend um episode nine of agatha all along yes i absolutely do i think i'm a lot higher

[01:24:55] on uh on these last two episodes than you are john um i really enjoyed them and i think keeping back

[01:25:00] the true nature of what happened to agatha and who she has been for these last couple of centuries

[01:25:06] kind of allowed me as a viewer of the show for the last eight episodes to go oh actually maybe she's not

[01:25:12] that bad maybe she's just misunderstood you know um and then you realize well actually she made a decision

[01:25:16] um that that moment in episode nine where you realize she made her decision when her son died that

[01:25:22] that's it her heart is gone she is going to be the bad one um i kind of like that because

[01:25:28] there's so many redemption stories of villains now that's something that people want to do all the time

[01:25:32] that they try to do it with the joker um you know this idea that behind every villain is a is a reason

[01:25:39] why they're as villainous as they are they're not just bad guys so having it done this way with agatha

[01:25:44] was it was refreshing it was it was different it was it was interesting i do think the two things i'm

[01:25:49] really missing from the show are the deal with death um that agatha made that means she gives over

[01:25:56] witches for centuries i think that's quite important to find out that that's her deal and

[01:26:00] that's the only deal death is willing to give her and that's why she won't keep nicola scratch alive

[01:26:05] forever um because she's already got that deal we never saw the deal in the show i just thought it

[01:26:09] was weird that we didn't and having billy being able to read her mind and learn the story so that

[01:26:14] that's why he forgives her i think those are two things you could have could have done and probably

[01:26:18] should have been in the ninth episode um but overall i think this series has been so

[01:26:22] interesting and it feels like this was out there this is the series i did not expect to enjoy as

[01:26:28] much as i did um we went into it going well this will be a bit of fun it's a marvel show we love

[01:26:32] marvel shows and it's been a lot more than a bit of fun it's been a really enjoyable show each week

[01:26:37] i've really enjoyed uh theorizing again because we don't get to do that very often in marvel shows

[01:26:42] anymore and they kind of put everything on the table and tell you what's actually happening so

[01:26:45] the show being as twisty and turny as as wandavision season one

[01:26:49] um has made it great i really really enjoyed it yeah excellent stuff i think with that it is

[01:26:55] off for a drinky poos yes at the agatha all along cauldron quiz yeah i need a flag and an ale john

[01:27:02] after that yes indeed we have two questions fellow defenders fellow quizzes uh for episode eight the

[01:27:11] question is how long has billy been gone from his home when he returns to his parents house

[01:27:18] this is a bit of a surprise to me so uh yes definitely go check that out uh you'll you'll

[01:27:22] see it in the episode john do you want to get the question one more time yes how long has billy been

[01:27:27] gone from his home when he returns to his parents house very good and the final question for episode

[01:27:32] nine john how many covens do we see agatha take out with the con of the witch's road following the death

[01:27:41] of nicholas fantastic in that cool scene and we're not going to include the uh the coven uh

[01:27:47] with alice and lilia and jen because that coven wasn't taken out right it's just the other covens

[01:27:54] that's that's agatha's okay do you want to get the question one more time john how many covens do

[01:27:58] we see agatha take out with the con of the witch's road following the death of nicholas

[01:28:05] that's it that's nine questions you've got now for agatha all along if you want if you'd missed

[01:28:09] any of them pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com there's a pub quiz

[01:28:13] section there that has all nine questions and send us in your correct answers to feedback at

[01:28:20] tvpodcastindustries.com and you could be in a chance for getting your hands on some agatha goodies

[01:28:24] we want to hear from you get them into us as soon as possible and as soon as the making of episode

[01:28:28] for agatha is out we will be recording our our final episode of the agatha all along podcast which

[01:28:34] will reveal all the answers to those questions as well and the winner of our pub quiz excellent

[01:28:38] stuff let us get on to our feedback section our first bit of feedback is actually on episode seven

[01:28:45] it came in just after we'd finished our recording um i came in from the joyful baker who says hi again

[01:28:49] loved episode seven what ride lilia was wonderful and this one gave me all the feels i was wondering

[01:28:55] about the writing on the table she was sitting at with her teacher since it was the same shape as the

[01:28:59] table and the task on the side of the top it has the latin in nave expeditus system seller quam ventus

[01:29:07] i hope i pronounced that close to uh close to how it's supposed to be written but the joyful baker

[01:29:13] says google says that it translates to be swift in the ship as swift as the wind a search for the

[01:29:18] saying came up with nothing but when you look for ships and tarot cards the ship is commonly featured

[01:29:23] in the art of the death card however not rio's death card in the show interesting very excited for

[01:29:28] the last two episodes next week cheers the joyful baker i had to have a look into this excellent stuff

[01:29:35] yeah just looked a little bit further um and apparently the full phrase on the table is in

[01:29:40] nave expeditus system seller quam ventus morse which apparently adds the word morse which is death

[01:29:47] so it actually translates to you are as fast as the wind of death on a ship so i would think that's a

[01:29:54] reference to the fact that lilia has been running death for as long as she has because she hasn't

[01:29:59] been accepting her fate she's been running away from death and now has realized this is her end

[01:30:03] and that's why it's on the table that's what i think that would certainly make sense because that's i i

[01:30:09] mean in a sense that's the whole episode yeah and of her trying to face up to death yeah um but uh yeah

[01:30:17] it's a great catch uh joyful baker uh on the side of the table and i i love this stuff it's just really

[01:30:26] really cool that that level of detail is you know brought into the show and for this character of lilia

[01:30:34] you know so good yeah absolutely i'm so glad you didn't quote the uh what was on the other table

[01:30:39] uh in the task because that was our pub quiz question from last week's episode so uh thanks for that

[01:30:43] great catch joyful baker yeah thanks joyful baker uh on this episode uh an email from coffee and vodka

[01:30:51] who says greetings fellow force ghost defenders well better than the conclusion of wandavision not as

[01:30:59] good as episode seven agatha being the source of jennifer's binding was disappointing a writer's

[01:31:05] short course in an otherwise okay ending agatha stopping short of killing billy when draining him

[01:31:12] show that all the deaths that went before were not part of some curse or automatic function beyond her

[01:31:18] control in short she is a murderous villain and not a victim of an uncontrollable power so billy's

[01:31:26] acceptance of her kind of makes him an accessory after the fact adding some nice depth to his character

[01:31:33] i guess the road being his creation and the deaths resulting from it helped him inform his decision

[01:31:40] in for a penny in for a massacre it was nice to see alice get a proper farewell in a scene that was

[01:31:47] very sandman in nature also does this mean that billy and tommy are eternal what wasn't answered is why

[01:31:55] agatha allows the belief that she had something to do with nikki's death when it was her entreaties

[01:32:01] to death which extended his life finally do you think this is all for jen or will we see more of her

[01:32:08] in an upcoming show off for another rewatch and the long wait for mephisto's debut in iron hearts

[01:32:15] four lyrical long cons murdered mrs what's her names and blind bindings out of five peace and take care

[01:32:25] coffee and vodka excellent stuff coffee and vodka yeah i think you're on par with um sort of me here

[01:32:33] and uh i'm certainly waiting for mephisto to to turn up um i could i could see him rocking an iron

[01:32:40] man suit actually do you know i'm in devil red i think i know they made a mention of mephisto in uh

[01:32:47] in this season but that was definitely just to uh just to um have a bit of fun with the fans who

[01:32:54] thought he was going to turn up in one division but you know given that we have the return of the

[01:32:58] catholic um daredevil coming in march maybe mephisto could appear in daredevil born again you know

[01:33:04] mephisto born again uh and actually just thinking about mephisto because yes it was a little kind of

[01:33:09] breadcrumb there and a little sort of nice little playful gesture i think from the showrunner and and

[01:33:16] the writers i was just wondering whether you know the black heart uh identified by uh lilia also

[01:33:24] you know in the text message from um billy's boyfriend and also the i think someone said that

[01:33:33] billy's earring was a stud in the shape of a heart as well um that was it that's all it was it was

[01:33:39] wasn't it just a little red herring yeah exactly yeah yeah it's it's again one of the things i like

[01:33:45] about this now being a circular show where you go back to the start and you watch it all through

[01:33:48] again knowing the things you know um it adds to it i think uh it'll make it it'll make it more

[01:33:53] interesting because a lot of the stuff that actually happened on the road a lot of the stuff

[01:33:56] that you're speculating about is actually just things brought in from yeah billy's room billy's

[01:34:00] life so um so that's that's really cool um interesting that koffi and vodka pointed out something about

[01:34:06] agatha i said earlier on in the season that i wondered if agatha was unable to stop her taking

[01:34:12] the entire life force of a witch i'm still not sure whether she was able to stop in the past or

[01:34:18] whether she just chose to write it out because she made that choice at the graveside of uh of nikki

[01:34:24] that she was going to take all of the lives um but here she makes the choice to not take billy's life

[01:34:30] but i think she was teetering on the edge though i think there is a moment where you see her genuinely

[01:34:35] go oh this feels great to have the power and she does look like she's just going to take billy's

[01:34:39] wife and then chooses not to chooses to let him live here um so no she she doesn't seem like it's

[01:34:45] it's a curse or it's completely automatic that she's going to kill them but i just wonder if she

[01:34:50] um just hadn't tried in the past to stop herself maybe yeah exactly excellent stuff koffi and vodka

[01:34:56] uh thanks so much for the feedback absolutely thanks koffi and vodka uh let's head on over to our

[01:35:01] facebook group facebook.com slash group slash tv podcast industries first up brian mersk says other

[01:35:07] than some great character building not really too sure i really get what the point of the entire

[01:35:11] show was interesting grian uh i guess not on the uh on the joy train for uh agatha all along

[01:35:17] this time i really enjoyed it um you know i guess i guess once again it's the journey and the

[01:35:22] development of the characters that is what the show is about i guess yeah i think so yeah definitely

[01:35:28] yeah this is a big universe and hopefully we'll see them all again yeah i mean i i think

[01:35:33] i think this is the problem with connected universe though is that in order to build the platform and

[01:35:42] certainly through tv shows where you're six seven eight hours um sometimes it might get lost if it's

[01:35:55] building towards a movie that has the payoff you know and i i i guess i can i can understand that

[01:36:01] that is a risk here for marvel yeah but one of the things i have loved about the feedback about

[01:36:06] agatha all along specifically is that you don't have to watch anything else you can just watch

[01:36:10] all along yeah on a loop over and over again absolutely and sometimes the point of a show is just to

[01:36:15] tell a great story with some characters you know absolutely i like i like as a bit as a big comic

[01:36:19] book fan a big marvel fan specifically um i'm more of a fan of these stories that go on for

[01:36:24] years at times the one shots are very very rare in marvel where they just have one issue that

[01:36:30] comes out and tells you one story that's self-contained that's not really something that marvel has ever

[01:36:34] done so um they they do maybe once every couple of years they do a one-shot issue but it always

[01:36:39] builds into something else i guess it's cheaper to do a comic though than uh a movie oh very much so

[01:36:46] very much so but yeah i mean that's that as i say it's more of the risk i think that

[01:36:53] things don't pay off or take so long to pay off you know um it's it's different medium so

[01:37:01] it's not necessarily the same but it does depend on what what the payoff you're looking for is the

[01:37:05] payoff here for the character of agatha is that she has now aligned herself with the good guy she's

[01:37:09] she's stopped her or has he aligned herself with being a bad i mean this is the point but she doesn't

[01:37:15] have the ability to take to take the power of other witches now she's become a ghost she hardly have

[01:37:19] the power to touch anything anymore so for a penny in for a massacre that's that's the way and again

[01:37:25] maybe not off the road elictus um given wonder perhaps and you just do you know what i mean i'm

[01:37:33] just saying it's like it's it's an interesting unresolved thing um again with jen will that get

[01:37:40] resolved we'll see um or is that the resolution her flying off into the sunset and she's out there

[01:37:46] with her powers now yes yeah you know um thanks for that brian and thanks for sending in your feedback

[01:37:51] i'm sorry you didn't enjoy it as much as we did yeah thanks brian also paul tenshi lee says episode

[01:37:56] six cemented the very real possibility that william billy is the real driver behind the road and now

[01:38:00] we find out that nicholas and agatha created the song and she used it as a con for hundreds of years

[01:38:05] to gain power these two episodes are arguably the heart of why this season exists and were slightly

[01:38:10] less satisfying to me because they weren't as tightly crafted as episode seven however eight nine sets

[01:38:15] then various bits of lore gives agatha a new job and opens up the route for billy wiccan to continue

[01:38:21] on the mcu yes absolutely there you go yeah um yeah i wholeheartedly agree uh with your sentiment

[01:38:29] there paul for sure definitely absolutely anything that keeps catherine han and joe lock in a job i'm

[01:38:35] all up for it excellent stuff uh thanks again paul uh courtney mcclain says i really wanted to love

[01:38:42] the finale i enjoyed it but it felt like a lot of build up and was a bit hollow in the end

[01:38:49] too many loose ends and ambiguous one-liners i get wanting to set up the next season i just feel like

[01:38:56] there were elements to the season that should have had more conclusion and these episodes fell flat

[01:39:02] after lilia's episode how exactly is jen the way forward why did agatha promise rio bodies why did rio

[01:39:10] want agatha dead in the first place just love a scorn i loved how the show kept me guessing and it was

[01:39:16] beautiful i wish it had made me feel more of anything at the end thanks so much courtney um that's really

[01:39:24] interesting and i do have sympathy with what you're saying because certainly i think for episode six at

[01:39:30] the end with billy with the crown and not really seeing all of it and then suddenly going off in a

[01:39:36] different direction um i do feel you know the thing that you do is you want a conclusion um you know

[01:39:46] whether that's that they find tommy at the end of the road or that it's you know the the going off

[01:39:54] together is because they're going into the mcu and it's a new story and so i i kind of i have

[01:40:01] sympathy for what you mean around everything having to be left for another time because in this world of

[01:40:10] television now there may never be another time um you know i'm like and i kind i personally i get the

[01:40:17] resolution that tommy has been brought back into the world though you know we now know that he's there

[01:40:22] he's he's in a body he's alive and while billy and himself didn't reunite at the end of the road like

[01:40:28] billy thought was going to happen he's brought him back at the end of the road he's brought him

[01:40:32] back into the world so that in itself can be a resolution for the show for me i do agree with

[01:40:36] you about some of the outstanding questions you know the idea of why did agatha promise rio the

[01:40:40] bodies and why did rio want agatha dead in the first place i think just in general the the concept

[01:40:45] of death really as as she says herself in the show is she's the inevitable thing she's the thing

[01:40:51] that happens to everybody we all die and agatha is a character that's defied that now for

[01:40:55] centuries on end and had defied it at the point when um that we see death and herself meet

[01:41:01] when nikki dies so it's not necessarily that rio specifically wants agatha dead agatha should be

[01:41:09] dead by now because humans should be dead much earlier than 400 years you know that's kind of

[01:41:14] what i think it is um i don't think rio specifically chasing down agatha i don't think she wants to take

[01:41:20] her away but she should be dead so death is there to claim the people that should be dead so she's

[01:41:26] saying to her i'll give you another chance here if you give me billy you can you can live for longer

[01:41:30] but if not it's your time to go now basically you know um so i don't think i don't that's about the

[01:41:35] lover scoring part of it in fact i feel like agatha is the lover scorned that's why she hates rio as

[01:41:41] much as she does that's why she hates death as much as she does she feels like she's the lover

[01:41:45] scorned uh more than anything else but thanks so much for your thoughts courtney yeah thanks courtney

[01:41:50] heather wallace sent in her thoughts in the episode and said i honestly don't know how to feel

[01:41:54] i went from being moved that agatha sacrificed herself for billy to despising her for murdering

[01:41:58] witches for her own gain i had a similar reaction to wanda in multiverse of madness grief is not an

[01:42:03] excuse to become a monster mostly i just feel angry that sharon alice and my queen lilia died for

[01:42:09] absolutely no reason i mean lilia even warned agatha about hitting the deck and that sneaky witch didn't

[01:42:15] deserve it the road was a con the song was a con and i kind of feel con too

[01:42:19] if the episode order was reversed and we saw agatha's sacrifice after we knew her backstory

[01:42:23] that may have made me more sympathetic to her but i still feel that sacrifice was all part of a con

[01:42:29] for immortality the only way to look at it is that agatha was the anti-hero all along thanks so much

[01:42:35] uh heather yeah i mean that could absolutely be the the way of it really um and i do feel um

[01:42:44] not so much reversed but i think that's my kind of feeling around it having agatha's sacrifice

[01:42:53] peppered through this series um it's kind of like nicholas scratch you know just tell nicholas

[01:43:01] scratch's story because actually i loved it i don't think it needs to be held back as another red herring

[01:43:06] you know because we've got the black cart red herring with the mephisto red herring

[01:43:10] nicholas scratch is he isn't he you know is and like in the end it's sometimes just tell the story

[01:43:18] and and i think that just would have helped for the final episode to be honest um i still really

[01:43:27] enjoyed it um and i kind of did like the fact that the the song was a con and as i say it felt to me

[01:43:36] more in keeping with billy projecting his reality and making up the road and it was made up in song

[01:43:45] in 1750 so it felt like there were parallels and that's why i feel have them running along together

[01:43:52] and then you get rather keeping agatha's story a mystery you expose it and you have it and you

[01:44:02] embrace you've got lilia's mystery in there you've got a whole rake of other mysteries and it's like

[01:44:09] it's too many mysteries for one series to potentially cope with i would say it's just about coach with it

[01:44:18] but i think it could have been handled even better right i'll respectfully agree to disagree

[01:44:25] on that but thanks so much for your thoughts either um we'll move on to adam burton who just simply

[01:44:30] simply says bit underwhelming to be honest like the second last episode then the finale was just a bit

[01:44:35] flat for me thanks adam yeah thanks so much adam um yeah i think that can be the way sometimes

[01:44:40] um donald dennis says i really liked it but a lot of the final episode almost felt like it was meant

[01:44:47] to be released later as a surprise like the cats episode of sandman the creation of the song was

[01:44:53] interesting but i'm surprised they didn't show agatha using her stolen power to try and heal her son or

[01:44:59] bring him back yeah interesting actually yeah although i mean we just get that moment where she

[01:45:05] says you know i can do all these things i can cast the spell i can can control feeble minds and but i

[01:45:12] can't divine when you're going to be taken from me and she also says i can't heal you i can't help you

[01:45:19] you know and i can't feed you effectively through magic exactly exactly um that's a really interesting

[01:45:25] idea though um but i do also have the side of my head where it's also the mcu so the idea that

[01:45:32] any character can bring people back from the dead after they're gone um that does open up a can of

[01:45:37] worms that you might not want to open in the mcu i think yeah exactly thanks donald thanks donald

[01:45:42] adrian johnson says i surprisingly really like this series overall i enjoyed the story the new characters

[01:45:47] and although i wanted the ones we lost to all come back at the end i do appreciate that they didn't

[01:45:52] i look forward to the journey ahead marvel tv is back in good form absolutely uh asian i'm with you

[01:45:59] even though i've kind of been a little bit off um i'm totally with you i love this series

[01:46:07] i still did a defend for both of them absolutely you know um i just uh and i think it's overall it's

[01:46:15] really good season so i'm i'm not hating absolutely and it's been great i've loved it as well adrian

[01:46:21] thanks so much for your thoughts great adrian thanks so much uh becky anderson says episode eight was okay

[01:46:27] the showdown was cool i loved all the visuals this show has had all season i'm glad agatha didn't let

[01:46:34] death take billy after all the best part was the end watching billy realize the truth of the road

[01:46:40] or all i could think of was the usual suspects i literally said billy is kaiser soze to my tv

[01:46:48] great reveal and ending with agatha saying boo behind him was great episode nine was brilliant i loved

[01:46:56] getting the backstory of the song and the reveal the road was never real just a con seeing her with

[01:47:01] nikki was so sweet and made sense why she was so fond of teen my favorite moment was when she admitted

[01:47:08] the reason she wouldn't cross over is because she was afraid to face her son billy making the entrance

[01:47:14] to the road a memorial for the fallen witches was so touching hope they find tommy i'm going to miss

[01:47:22] this show so much what a ride absolutely becky and it might be riding into vision quest who knows it

[01:47:30] might be sooner than we think i mean that is pure speculation on our part but filming doesn't start

[01:47:36] until 2025 they're still writing scripts at the moment given the reaction to agatha all along and how

[01:47:42] much fun people have had and how much joy it's brought people i would be shocked if they don't

[01:47:46] incorporate something of agatha all along into into vision quest yeah yeah great stuff thanks uh becky

[01:47:52] absolutely thanks so much becky and one other thing that i do love about the series that i

[01:47:56] didn't say earlier on um what i love about it is it didn't end with the big punch-up battle uh the

[01:48:02] big punch-up battle happened in episode eight and they went for the emotional punch instead with the

[01:48:06] final episode that's something different um you know we saw the whole joke in she hulk that they

[01:48:10] always thought an mcu movie has to end with a big punch-up battle between the two

[01:48:14] uh big bads against each other uh they chose to go for the emotional punch which i think makes more

[01:48:19] sense for the show that agatha all along was delivering yeah yeah uh twist and turn he rose

[01:48:24] indeed exactly exactly and finally dr bob phillips says jack schaefer certainly knows how to write a

[01:48:30] tale of complex grief doesn't she sometimes boys just die despite everything anyone can do episode

[01:48:36] seven might have been the best standalone episode but i love the unveiling of the con turned reality in

[01:48:42] the final episode and really really want this storyline to continue excellent stuff uh dr bob

[01:48:47] yes dr bob uh totally uh want the story to continue as well for sure yeah yeah brilliant thank you so

[01:48:54] much everybody for your feedback on this season of agatha long again if you want to get in contact

[01:48:58] with us before our wrap-up finale episode uh you can email us to feedback at tv podcast

[01:49:02] industries.com or pop on over to our facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tv podcast

[01:49:07] industries if you want to support us you can also support us over on patreon.com slash tv podcast

[01:49:13] industries or you can support us by going over to buymeacoffee.com slash tvpi and the best way of

[01:49:20] course to support us is sharing the podcast because sharing the podcast is sharing the witchy love it is

[01:49:26] we will of course be back with the next marvel tv show which is what if season three coming out in the

[01:49:31] 22nd of december i'm looking forward to covering a different type of marvel show um on the podcast here

[01:49:37] but if you want to catch up with the other stuff we're covering uh you can pop on over to tv podcast

[01:49:41] industries.com join us there we're covering the last couple of episodes of the awesome penguin

[01:49:46] another one of the best shows of the year one of the ones i'm really enjoying covering every week

[01:49:50] definitely just two episodes left for that one as well yeah i know uh flying uh through that even

[01:49:55] though penguins can't fly absolutely and there's no batman to fly in there i know yeah but thanks so

[01:50:01] much for joining us on the road so far and until we see you later on down the road see you later

[01:50:06] which is yes thanks so much fellow defenders for joining us as always it's a pleasure discussing

[01:50:12] all things uh marvel with you until next time keep watching keep listening and of course keep defending

[01:50:24] bye bye

[01:50:58] down

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