Pennyworth Season 2 Episode 10 "The Lion and Lamb" Podcast by TV Podcast Industries

[00:00:00] This is the Pennyworth Podcast on TV Podcast Industries, we're here for the finale of Pennyworth Season 2, The Lion and Lamb

[00:00:39] Welcome back fellow governors and Gothamites, we're back with the finale of Pennyworth Season

[00:01:24] 2 Episode 10, The Lion and Lamb, I'm one of your hosts Derek.

[00:01:29] Hello there fellow governors, I am one of your other hosts John. Yes, The Lion and the Lamb although no lions and no lambs in this episode.

[00:01:39] Figuratively speaking, there may have been a lion and a lamb in the episode.

[00:01:43] Certainly.

[00:01:44] You know, we've been podcasting about Bruno Heller's vision of the DC world for a very long time. We covered every episode of Gotham when it was on, which was five seasons of that show.

[00:01:55] And we've also covered now two seasons of Pennyworth. Some friends of ours are also podcasted at Bill Meeks and Ann Marie DeSimone used to do Legends of Gotham and they used to have a section in their episodes called That's So Gotham.

[00:02:08] And as I was watching the finale of Pennyworth, all I could think of was this is so Gotham.

[00:02:14] Oh yeah, I think the last these last two episodes have had that so Gotham.

[00:02:20] I think since the return of Davos aka Mr. Pennyworth in his wheelchair, since the return where he's got the flashing lights on the front, it really felt like something directly out of their DC Universe in Gotham and now in Pennyworth.

[00:02:37] Yeah, definitely. And taking a terror bomb and converting that into, dare I say it, a superhero or dare I say it, super soldier.

[00:02:49] Yes, then certainly that also was pretty crazy, very Gotham.

[00:02:56] Very, I think.

[00:02:57] But that was one of the wonders of Gotham. And I think there's elements absolutely in Pennyworth that it was kooky and weird and wonderful.

[00:03:06] It made it wonderful. It was on the right side of it and it was like, it just was like, where are they going to go with this? And I guess this is the last episode.

[00:03:16] So if we all to know where they are going to go with it, then certainly there would need to be a season three.

[00:03:24] Exactly, exactly. Yes, this is no confirmed season three. We did talk about this before Bruno Heller has said he is writing season three and he's delighted where he's finished his four major characters,

[00:03:35] which is Thomas Wayne, Martha Wayne, Alfred Pennyworth and Lucius Fox, the four pillars as he calls them of the creation of Batman effectively.

[00:03:45] So he's delighted where he's left them at the end of season two and he's already written a lot of season three says he's broken it knows exactly how it's going to go.

[00:03:52] But we don't know whether we're going to be back for season three.

[00:03:55] So we're going to take season two as the finale of the show as it is.

[00:03:58] This is obviously going to be our spoiler filled discussion for this.

[00:04:01] If you haven't watched season two, there's so many big revelations, so many big moments and so many big shocks.

[00:04:06] You know, Bruno Heller did it again.

[00:04:08] He's twisted quite significantly away from what we expected to happen in this finale.

[00:04:13] Absolutely.

[00:04:14] But one of the things I've probably said quite a lot on this podcast, Gotham TV podcast and on Defenders TV podcast,

[00:04:23] this intermingling of TV movies and comic material and how they can inform one another and what possibilities may come from it.

[00:04:33] You know, there's a really interesting idea in this episode in particular that will be one of our main points given the ramifications that it has for the Wayne family that

[00:04:48] And the Bat versus a Hole.

[00:04:49] And the Bat versus a Hole.

[00:04:51] But that, you know, any comic book writer and any comic book artist could literally take that up and run with it in terms of creating a storyline around the premise that has been established here.

[00:05:07] And that's what I kind of really like.

[00:05:10] This idea of this cross pollination that can happen, not always, sometimes never, but that can happen with the TV shows pushing new envelopes and the comics and the movies doing the same thing.

[00:05:28] And then it being taking up in another form of this comic universe that we're in.

[00:05:34] Exactly.

[00:05:35] So, you know, it's always really creative good stuff, I think.

[00:05:38] Yeah, I think so.

[00:05:39] Before we get into the episode, just to make sure you know as we're closing out our Pennyworth podcast, there'll be nothing else going on speed on the Pennyworth feed for a while.

[00:05:47] So make sure you join us over in our main feed on TV podcast industries.

[00:05:51] You can find that through TV podcast industries.com or main website or just search TV podcast industries.

[00:05:56] You'll get all of the other coverage that we do on a weekly basis.

[00:05:59] We've done just over 560 episodes of the podcast covering multiple TV shows right now.

[00:06:05] We're covering Falcon and the Winter Soldier Season 1.

[00:06:08] We've got four episodes in, two more episodes to go for that show.

[00:06:11] We're also covering Invincible, the animated show from Image Comics and Robert Kirkman, which is airing weekly over on Amazon Prime.

[00:06:18] So lots of comics coverage that we're doing over in TV podcast industries.

[00:06:22] We'd love if you joined us for those podcasts as well as the Pennyworth podcast.

[00:06:25] Since it's finished and since we don't know when it's returned, we don't want to say goodbye to you just yet.

[00:06:29] Come join us for all the other stuff we're covering.

[00:06:31] Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:32] And of course, we've literally just finished up at the start of March our one division coverage as well.

[00:06:39] So there's plenty to dive into the over on TV podcast industries.com.

[00:06:44] Yeah.

[00:06:45] So please join us, support us, subscribe, leave a review because sharing the podcast is sharing the love.

[00:06:53] Absolutely.

[00:06:54] And while we may be going away from Pennyworth, you can always email us.

[00:06:58] You can always reach out to us at feedback at TV podcast industries.com.

[00:07:01] If you have any thoughts or just want to catch up about Pennyworth in between series,

[00:07:06] more than welcome to contact us over there.

[00:07:08] Absolutely.

[00:07:09] Let's get into our spoiler filled discussion about The Lion and Lamb, the 10th and final episode of season two of Pennyworth.

[00:07:15] This episode was written by showrunner and creator of Pennyworth, the TV show Bruno Heller.

[00:07:21] And yes, you can tell as we mentioned earlier on,

[00:07:24] episode directed by Rob Bailey has done a number of episodes this season.

[00:07:26] Some of the really good episodes of Pennyworth as well.

[00:07:29] So a good collaborator on board for this final episode.

[00:07:33] Yes, and your theory holds up that the showrunner writing the first and last episodes of the series,

[00:07:40] at least those two, is always a good sign.

[00:07:44] It shows their creative juices are on board for the majority of the season,

[00:07:49] even though there may be a writer's room or other writers involved in the show and for individual episodes.

[00:07:58] Well done, creative juices from Bruno Heller.

[00:08:01] Well John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for the finale of season two of Pennyworth?

[00:08:07] Sure.

[00:08:08] With the recovered vial of Storm Cloud in hand, Alphie, Lucius, Dave, Boy and Thomas,

[00:08:14] along with his father drive back to London in triumph.

[00:08:17] As Alfie returns to tell his mother of his dad's survival

[00:08:21] and Storm Cloud is taken to the English League, all is not quite as triumphant as they appear.

[00:08:26] Gully Troy is looking for Alfie, his father has something to hide

[00:08:30] and the vial containing Storm Cloud is a fake.

[00:08:34] At the Raven Union headquarters, John Salt rejects the League's unconditional surrender

[00:08:39] after they discover his ruse and he makes his way up to his penthouse

[00:08:43] ready to unleash the real Storm Cloud, safely positioned in London, ready for detonation.

[00:08:49] Back in London with all hope lost, some try and make a run for it,

[00:08:54] while Thomas and Martha say yes and ask Prime Minister Aziz to marry them.

[00:08:59] Meanwhile, back at Alfie's home, Mrs Pennyworth is shocked to see her husband

[00:09:04] but finds it in her heart to forgive him.

[00:09:06] However, the atmosphere is uncomfortable and tense

[00:09:09] and things get worse when Alfie learns of his father's involvement in the Raven Union's deception.

[00:09:15] Upset and angry, Alfie's home truth to his father

[00:09:19] and some words from his wife convince him to reveal the location of Storm Cloud

[00:09:24] which is in Lord Harward's coffin.

[00:09:27] As they race against time to defuse the bomb,

[00:09:30] they are helped when Salt runs into the fists and boots of Bette and Peggy Sykes

[00:09:35] back at Raven Union headquarters, but Salt manages to push the trigger

[00:09:40] but is arrested by the army and Francis Gaunt resumes leadership of the Raven Union.

[00:09:45] In London, Storm Cloud activates but quick thinking sees Gully swallow the capsule

[00:09:50] preventing a devastating detonation

[00:09:53] but unfortunately for Gully it detonates in his stomach.

[00:09:56] Six months later as the Raven Union launches its final assault on London

[00:10:01] Martha gives birth to a girl and the English League, led by Alfie and Bette Sykes

[00:10:06] unleash a new weapon on the Raven Union forces.

[00:10:10] Could they have done more in episode 10 of season 2?

[00:10:14] There's so much going on here, so many great points hit in this final episode

[00:10:20] and so many interesting twists and turns. Lots to talk about here

[00:10:23] but the first thing I want to kick off with John, you mentioned in your synopsis

[00:10:27] that Lucius Day Boy and Thomas along with Alfie's father drive back to London in triumph.

[00:10:32] They don't drive back in a triumph, they drive back in another car.

[00:10:36] Very visible if you're a fan of old 60s Batman.

[00:10:39] I don't know whether we didn't notice it in the last week's episode

[00:10:43] whether it was just not as clear in the last episode.

[00:10:47] I think I was too bamboozled by the fluttering flags of the stars and stripes.

[00:10:51] Maybe that's it but I'm sure they expected us all to notice

[00:10:54] that this looks exactly like the Batmobile from Adam West's Batman

[00:10:58] that they're driving around in.

[00:11:00] So is that car, is that Alfred Pennyworth's car that he brings with him over to

[00:11:05] or is that Thomas Wayne's car that he brings with him over to Gotham

[00:11:09] and it becomes the Batmobile? Is that what happens?

[00:11:11] No, well I just took it that it is the US Embassy's car.

[00:11:15] So I guess if there are a few lying around

[00:11:19] if they are kind of US government issue

[00:11:22] then maybe Thomas picks one off.

[00:11:26] Maybe Thomas provided us.

[00:11:27] But it's ultimately a black Cadillac so it's pretty, I guess ubiquitous.

[00:11:32] Yeah but it's the red interior and the black Cadillac

[00:11:35] that make it look exactly like Batman.

[00:11:36] Oh absolutely, it's a clear reference to the Batmobile from the 60s Batman

[00:11:42] which is fantastic but I guess this one will be left in the UK.

[00:11:50] You never know, you never know they may bring it with them

[00:11:53] when they go over to Gotham eventually

[00:11:55] but I know the actual Batmobile that was on that West Batman show

[00:12:00] that was a concept car, there weren't very many of those produced

[00:12:02] so this is a reference rather than the exact car

[00:12:05] because it's been a very long time since that car was out there

[00:12:08] but just to point it out we did notice that this episode looked really cool

[00:12:11] with Alfie and Dave Boyd in the car

[00:12:14] definitely looking like Batman and Robin in the car.

[00:12:18] That was very cool.

[00:12:19] Yes and Alfie's dad is still on the back

[00:12:24] looking like the dog with its ears flapping in the wind

[00:12:30] out of the back of a car

[00:12:33] but they're taking Mr Pennyworth Brack to Mrs Pennyworth.

[00:12:38] Absolutely that kind of kicks off our first point as usual

[00:12:40] Alfie and the boys in the job because there's always a job

[00:12:42] and there's always Alfie and a rotating group of boys

[00:12:45] this time as always, Dave Boyd at his side

[00:12:48] but a rotating group of the lads really

[00:12:50] in this moment as we said everybody's together

[00:12:53] with Thomas and everybody returning from Raven Head HQ

[00:12:56] will we talk about the job here, what actually happens

[00:13:00] so Gully has gone to threaten Alfie back at his home

[00:13:06] after recovering from his attack

[00:13:08] he calls in on Mrs P to chat to her about where Alfie could be

[00:13:13] and he does have a great teta test

[00:13:16] let's say with Mrs P where she gives a bit of what for

[00:13:20] Tells him what kind of woman his wife really is

[00:13:22] She does say that Alfie has been an naughty boy

[00:13:26] and she is sorry for him

[00:13:28] but she does say that his wife is all silk blouse

[00:13:31] and no knickers which is a great turn of phrase

[00:13:35] from Mrs Pennyworth to Gully who yes it is like

[00:13:39] like a dog with a bone he just won't give up

[00:13:43] and is searching around all of Alfie's haunts

[00:13:48] to try and find him as he's on the way back into London

[00:13:53] so Alfie drops off Lucius and Thomas

[00:13:59] at the English League's headquarters

[00:14:01] with the vial of Storm Cloud

[00:14:05] whilst he and his father head on over to the family home

[00:14:10] but it's in this moment that they you know

[00:14:13] they're all celebrating everyone is high on life

[00:14:17] on triumph you know and they're all wanting to see the faces

[00:14:22] of the Raven Union High Command

[00:14:26] realizing that they have you know they've failed effectively

[00:14:31] we see Gully then storming in coming to

[00:14:34] the English League High Command to see where Alfie is

[00:14:38] and you know spots this a bit like me with the

[00:14:42] stars and stripes fluttering in last week's episode

[00:14:45] gets bamboozled by the bright blue light of Storm Cloud

[00:14:50] and accidentally drops it and this is the moment where

[00:14:54] as it releases as the casing cracks

[00:14:57] everyone suddenly realizes that they're not dead

[00:15:00] and this is when you know cut to the Raven Union

[00:15:06] we see that immediately Aziz is effectively giving

[00:15:11] the unconditional surrender of the English League forces

[00:15:16] of which Salt is not having any of it

[00:15:19] he says I mean in a sense he's always wanted to drop it

[00:15:23] and this comes out from Field Marshal Thursday

[00:15:27] which says you had no intention of allowing them

[00:15:31] to surrender this was always your plan

[00:15:34] and it has been it's been his design all the way through

[00:15:37] but you know it's kind of this is the thing that happens here

[00:15:44] and couple to this then is what happens at Alfie's home

[00:15:50] I mean first off there's the big reintroduction

[00:15:54] of his dad to his mother

[00:15:57] but also there is the deception that his dad has done

[00:16:03] which is primarily that he knows of the plan

[00:16:07] but has kept the secret because he doesn't need to detonate it

[00:16:11] that's being done remotely by Jon Salt

[00:16:14] it is simply to give them the illusion of triumph

[00:16:18] and do this deception

[00:16:21] and of course the reintroduction of it

[00:16:24] you know great possibly is wasted with his reintroduction

[00:16:30] as Mrs. Pennyworth faints

[00:16:33] I mean she's delighted to see Alfie

[00:16:36] but then all of a sudden you know this

[00:16:39] Dalek like creature appears in the kind of musty atmosphere

[00:16:45] of the Pennyworth home

[00:16:47] and I love the fact that he's holding a bouquet of flowers

[00:16:51] because it is kind of like you know nature versus technology

[00:16:57] you just could imagine that he would kind of crush them

[00:17:00] or like run over them in his wheelchair

[00:17:03] but yeah massive pot of tea wasted as she faints

[00:17:08] and comes back around

[00:17:10] I have to say these scenes in the home are really powerful

[00:17:20] between his dad and his mum in terms of their reconciliation

[00:17:28] you know this idea I wanted to be somebody

[00:17:31] I wanted to do something

[00:17:33] I only ever felt I was a servant

[00:17:37] I doffed the cap, I bent the knee

[00:17:40] for people richer than me but no better

[00:17:45] all of this kind of thing

[00:17:47] and he felt he was worthless and that he didn't matter

[00:17:50] and you know you get this really strong emotional link

[00:17:54] with Mrs. Pennyworth saying

[00:17:57] but you matter to me, you matter to us

[00:18:00] that you know you just didn't appreciate what you had

[00:18:06] or who loved you, who appreciated you

[00:18:11] and this is you know I think it's really good stuff here

[00:18:15] Absolutely and you know talking about the radicalisation of this character

[00:18:19] talking about the fact that he was a servant

[00:18:21] he was a man servant or a butler for the upper classes

[00:18:25] so what you do have is this kind of thing that's run through a lot of the Batman stories

[00:18:30] we saw it in The Dark Knight Rises, this idea of the middle class rising up against the rich effectively

[00:18:36] but then you take a look at the people that are heading up the Raven Union

[00:18:39] and for the most part they're lords and ladies

[00:18:42] so you know he did have Lord Harwood

[00:18:45] you now have Sir John Salt leading up the Raven Union

[00:18:49] and their opponents are also very rich people

[00:18:51] you have the Queen as a leader of the English League

[00:18:55] along with the Prime Minister effectively

[00:18:58] so while you get his understanding that he wants to rise up and change the status quo

[00:19:04] and that's why the Raven Union is formed

[00:19:06] and that's why he's so on board in the Raven Union side

[00:19:09] what you hear from him is these excuses for falling in with this

[00:19:14] and him not realising what he had

[00:19:16] you know I kind of like hearing Mrs Pennyworth say to him

[00:19:20] I didn't realise how unhappy you were

[00:19:23] because if maybe if you'd been happier in our situation

[00:19:26] then you wouldn't have been as stupid as you were

[00:19:29] to join this group effectively

[00:19:31] so that's what gets to him really

[00:19:33] that idea that he's let his wife down

[00:19:36] while you said and you're an opposite she forgives him

[00:19:39] she forgives him but knows he's been stupid

[00:19:42] and has done wrong

[00:19:44] I mean she says I didn't realise you were so unhappy

[00:19:47] I mean that you get this real sense of depression from him

[00:19:51] that he didn't understand the people who cared for him

[00:19:54] who loved him

[00:19:56] and that stiff up a lip

[00:19:59] that you know rigid protocol of serving

[00:20:06] just inhibited him

[00:20:09] I mean it really does to me kind of

[00:20:12] it almost has echoes of Howard's End

[00:20:16] with Anthony Hopkins

[00:20:18] the portrayal of the servant

[00:20:21] as being emotionally undeveloped

[00:20:26] not able to deal with

[00:20:29] I guess a wider reality from their service

[00:20:34] and the soft relationships

[00:20:39] and social nuances in an informal setting

[00:20:44] that kind of thing

[00:20:46] or blind obedience in whatever form that comes

[00:20:51] because effectively he's gone from that butler figure

[00:20:55] to carrying out the plan of the Raven Union

[00:21:01] to the point that he will sacrifice not only himself

[00:21:04] but his wife and son

[00:21:07] and I think that comes to one or the other

[00:21:10] great aspects of here is that you know we talk about the deception

[00:21:13] and Alfred gets a call from his ease

[00:21:16] to say that the storm cloud file was a dud

[00:21:20] and it's not the deception to the wiser organisation

[00:21:25] I mean the whole atmosphere anyway is tense

[00:21:29] and slightly strange it's weird you know

[00:21:32] because they thought he was dead

[00:21:34] and they're all dealing with that

[00:21:36] I love how Alfie leads into it with his father saying to him

[00:21:39] no proclamations, no explanations, no speeches to mom

[00:21:42] I want you to go back and apologise to her

[00:21:44] and that's it or else you're not going back at all basically

[00:21:47] because he's had that line about you know

[00:21:50] some things are worth dying for

[00:21:53] they're worth killing for and Alfie's like nah none of that stuff

[00:21:56] well dare I say it you could cut the tension with a plain digested biscuit

[00:22:01] because I have to absolutely disagree with Dave Boyd

[00:22:06] is literally the worst biscuit you could possibly

[00:22:10] maybe with some chocolate on it yeah

[00:22:12] no it's great, it's a great dip in biscuit

[00:22:14] and its comparative is that it's much better than Jaffa cake

[00:22:17] save those, you get your dip in biscuit for your tea

[00:22:20] I understand, I understand it's very plain

[00:22:23] but I like it

[00:22:25] Alfie's reaction to the phone call when he gets it from Aziz

[00:22:29] is so good this moment where he's saying to his father

[00:22:32] Jack Bannon again really delivers a great emotional performance here

[00:22:38] but when he's saying to his father you know

[00:22:40] why have you done this

[00:22:42] and his father's saying well because we're nobodies

[00:22:44] we can sacrifice people like us for the greater good

[00:22:47] the greater good

[00:22:49] and Alfie's going to go and she's not nobody

[00:22:51] she's my mom, why would you kill her

[00:22:54] that's a really good performance from Jack Bannon

[00:22:56] exactly, but it was also him personally

[00:22:59] as much for his mom

[00:23:01] but for himself

[00:23:03] I thought I was getting my dad back he says

[00:23:06] he says I thought you gave me the gun

[00:23:09] because I was your son and because you loved me

[00:23:12] not because of some deception

[00:23:14] it is this idea of feeling betrayed here

[00:23:19] and protective of his mother

[00:23:22] and about their relationship and their love

[00:23:26] that he somehow seems to be casting everything

[00:23:29] their entire family relationship

[00:23:31] the years they've spent aside

[00:23:35] and yeah it's delivered really really well by Jack Bannon here

[00:23:40] I must say I really thought it was quite powerful

[00:23:43] and I think you know ultimately this

[00:23:46] blast of emotion and anger by Alfred

[00:23:51] along with his mom

[00:23:55] ultimately convinces his dad

[00:24:00] I mean it all centres around this picture of him

[00:24:03] and Alfie, a black white photograph

[00:24:07] absolutely love that moment when Alfie smashes the picture frame

[00:24:10] of that picture and his mom gets really annoyed

[00:24:13] saying she bought that den in Wicks for 10 shillings

[00:24:16] really expensive photo frame why are you smashing that

[00:24:19] it's a really good scene but kind of leads us into

[00:24:22] his father finally making the turn to the right side

[00:24:25] and revealing that well revealing that we were right

[00:24:29] finally that one of the only things we get right about this episode

[00:24:32] we were right the funeral that had happened for Lord Harwood

[00:24:36] was a way of John Salt placing Storm Kled in London

[00:24:39] without anybody finding out

[00:24:41] Storm Kled is in the coffin

[00:24:45] with the body of Lord Harwood and the church

[00:24:48] this is revealed by Mr P to Pelleworth and Dave Boy

[00:24:52] and they rush off to the church to try and stop us

[00:24:55] in a as I say in a real Batman and Robin way

[00:24:58] you know you see them arriving stop at the car running into the church

[00:25:01] and then getting confronted by a priest inside

[00:25:04] a gun-toed increased because again this is Pelleworth

[00:25:07] so of course we're going to see a gun-toed increased inside

[00:25:10] I wasn't sure because there's no real declaration of it in the episode

[00:25:15] I wasn't sure whether the priest is a member of the Raven Union

[00:25:18] who has been supposed to be protecting the body of Lord Harwood

[00:25:22] or is he just a priest that's really unhappy with people grave robbing

[00:25:26] and is it just he's so used to London now he carries a gun

[00:25:30] well I guess the way in which he was

[00:25:33] unceremoniously dispatched by Gully

[00:25:36] which is effectively he's executed with a bullet to the head

[00:25:42] then it would kind of lead you towards

[00:25:46] that he is yes this kind of undercover guard to some extent

[00:25:51] but I actually just took it as a regular chaplain or priest

[00:25:55] who was had seen two people

[00:26:00] rifling through the coffin of a dead person

[00:26:04] and an important dead person lying kind of in state I guess

[00:26:09] and so I thought the comedic element was that it came out

[00:26:14] with this machine gun and starts firing on them

[00:26:18] it kind of does you know it's that comedy element of the

[00:26:24] one of the ladies a lady picking up a machine gun

[00:26:29] with a big herdo and all the kickback start

[00:26:33] the her begins to disintegrate as the beehive starts to fall apart

[00:26:38] and it felt the same here this chaplain wielding

[00:26:43] this lethal weapon but ultimately it does get taken out

[00:26:48] absolutely it does kind of remind me of the start of the season when we were

[00:26:52] hoping we're going to see lots of grannies with guns because that's what we saw in the first episode

[00:26:56] saw the grannies with guns in the first episode and there we see a priest with a gun

[00:27:00] a priest with an assault rifle taking them down

[00:27:03] yes Gully arrives with Lucius Fox hopefully going to be able to be

[00:27:08] the team together these four people together hopefully going to be the ones to stop

[00:27:12] Stormcled from exploding because what we hear from John Salt it doesn't give a timeline on it

[00:27:17] they usually do give a timeline but it doesn't give a timeline he says

[00:27:20] he's going to set off Stormcled in London but they won't have time to get out

[00:27:24] so everybody has to stay there they'll have time enough to say goodbyes

[00:27:28] it's really because... exactly it's about an hour he says at Raven Union

[00:27:33] but it's ultimately not enough time for them to escape

[00:27:38] but enough time for them to say goodbye

[00:27:40] and only because Mr. P has told them where the bomb is

[00:27:44] that they've been able to get there with enough time to save it effectively

[00:27:47] I like that they have Lucius Fox here one of the creators of Stormcled

[00:27:51] along with the other scientists in the Raven Union hopefully he's going to be able to stop it

[00:27:55] but unfortunately the button is pushed as he's going through his steps of saving it

[00:28:01] he says the only way to stop it now there is a way to cancel out Stormcled

[00:28:05] which is by putting it into a metal box and dropping it into the ocean

[00:28:08] which they definitely don't have time to do

[00:28:11] and then the decision is taken by Alfie first off

[00:28:15] to potentially maybe if I swallow it that would stop the bomb from going off

[00:28:22] this was the lovely weird element

[00:28:25] it looked like a big bright blue glowing gobstopper

[00:28:30] and it was like I'm going to swallow this, wash it down with Dave Boyz Whiskey

[00:28:36] but then we get the chain of command thing from Gully

[00:28:41] he goes no I'm the senior officer here I'm going to do it

[00:28:45] if anyone's going to be a hero here it's going to be me

[00:28:47] so you have the craziness of it all

[00:28:50] but it is kind of it's the weird wonderful element here

[00:28:55] but I love the idea of what could it hurt

[00:28:57] if the bomb goes off we're all dead

[00:28:58] if I swallow the bomb and it doesn't do anything we're all dead anyway

[00:29:02] so I might as well try and see if by swallowing it it'll stop the bomb going off

[00:29:07] yes so it is Gully that swallows it

[00:29:10] and he gets taken out and brought into ambulance later on

[00:29:13] by the attendants because it doesn't kill

[00:29:16] it doesn't go off and kill everybody in the room

[00:29:18] it just turns Gully blue effectively

[00:29:21] so kind of like something out of Willy Wonka's Chocobo factory

[00:29:24] he's been turned blue or violet

[00:29:27] yeah exactly I mean it also immediately you know screams

[00:29:31] Mr. Freeze type blue as well to some extent

[00:29:35] but once the explosion has gone off

[00:29:38] and he's fallen to the floor of the church

[00:29:41] the colour drains from him slightly

[00:29:45] so you see the blue rising up around his neck

[00:29:49] and then onto his face

[00:29:51] and then it's kind of like he dies

[00:29:53] and so the colour drains and is casted off

[00:29:56] by the hazardous containment units

[00:30:00] now two things in this episode

[00:30:02] this is the second one of them

[00:30:04] two things in this episode

[00:30:05] so the explosion in the hazardous van

[00:30:08] you see the blue smoke rising

[00:30:10] you see the explosion

[00:30:11] and Alfie goes up and opens the door

[00:30:13] yeah and you see the wisps of blue smoke coming round

[00:30:17] and the door and you're like thinking

[00:30:19] could he still die

[00:30:21] well that's the containment unit

[00:30:22] if Stormcrite is being released now

[00:30:25] he's just opened the containment unit

[00:30:27] possibly killing all of London effectively

[00:30:29] if this was just a delays of reaction

[00:30:31] but it was coming out anyway

[00:30:32] but I guess it I mean they

[00:30:34] I mean Lucia says

[00:30:36] it must be that

[00:30:38] Stormcloud was deactivated by some bioenzyme

[00:30:42] in his stomach

[00:30:43] so I guess

[00:30:44] I guess that's what happened ultimately

[00:30:47] but I love that he has no answer to it

[00:30:49] but yes you don't go up and open the door

[00:30:51] because he may have just slowed down the explosion

[00:30:53] but it's the second time in this episode

[00:30:55] because even that moment when

[00:30:56] in the English League

[00:30:57] when they're holding what they thought was Stormcrite

[00:30:59] it's not exactly protected from somebody

[00:31:01] sitting on it by mistake

[00:31:02] Gully picking it up

[00:31:03] and dropping it on the floor

[00:31:04] and smashing it by mistake

[00:31:06] It's the first time when Lucia says

[00:31:08] at the English League headquarters

[00:31:11] and in front of Aziz

[00:31:12] and all the high command

[00:31:14] effectively the leading politicians

[00:31:16] that it needs to be put in a hermetically sealed box

[00:31:19] and buried

[00:31:21] my question would be

[00:31:23] why would you take a terror bomb

[00:31:26] to your Prime Minister

[00:31:28] it's kind of like

[00:31:30] I don't that's not what you do

[00:31:33] I know there's health and safety

[00:31:35] and there's checks these people should be doing

[00:31:37] but luckily it doesn't turn out as bad as it could have

[00:31:40] there is no Stormcrite in London

[00:31:42] and that's kind of where we leave Alphie and the boys in the job

[00:31:44] they're effectively they've saved London

[00:31:46] from Stormcrite

[00:31:47] it hasn't gone off

[00:31:48] and the only person

[00:31:50] that seems to have been affected by it

[00:31:52] is Gully by swallowing Stormcrite

[00:31:54] Yes

[00:31:55] and apparently

[00:31:58] is maybe not as dead

[00:32:00] as we think

[00:32:02] because of what happens in the ambulance

[00:32:04] where you know

[00:32:06] there's all this kind of

[00:32:08] rocking of the vehicle

[00:32:10] and so on

[00:32:11] so you think he's dead

[00:32:12] but it looks like he could still be alive

[00:32:14] but you get the shock horror from Alphie

[00:32:16] on his face

[00:32:18] but that's ultimately where

[00:32:22] it ends in that sense

[00:32:24] I want to give a big shout out to Patrick Lemke

[00:32:26] one of our listeners over on Twitter

[00:32:28] who contacted us to say

[00:32:30] that this is possibly

[00:32:32] a reference to a DC Comics character

[00:32:34] a character that was actually created in the 40s

[00:32:36] during the war it was eventually became

[00:32:38] a DC character

[00:32:40] a character called Human Bomb

[00:32:42] the character itself was Roy Lincoln

[00:32:44] what happened with this character

[00:32:46] and you like the artisan story here John

[00:32:48] so effectively himself and his father were creating

[00:32:50] a big weapon

[00:32:52] to destroy foreign armies

[00:32:54] when they were attacked

[00:32:56] and the weapon was going to be taken from them

[00:32:58] Roy Lincoln took it upon himself

[00:33:00] to swallow the weapon

[00:33:02] hoping that it would protect it from getting

[00:33:04] into the hands of the enemy

[00:33:06] thinking it would kill him and it doesn't kill him

[00:33:08] it turns him into the human bomb

[00:33:10] throw explosives at people

[00:33:12] from his body effectively

[00:33:14] he did continue through AC for many many years

[00:33:16] he's been featured in

[00:33:18] multiple times in multiple comics over the years

[00:33:20] so good catch there Patrick

[00:33:22] that this could potentially

[00:33:24] be a reference to that character

[00:33:26] at least the style it's not

[00:33:28] Gully is not the same as Roy Lincoln

[00:33:30] Roy Lincoln seems to have done this particular

[00:33:32] act as a

[00:33:34] saving act and he is a hero in the comics

[00:33:36] Gully

[00:33:38] as we've seen this series I don't know

[00:33:40] whether anybody would call him a hero

[00:33:42] he's not a great guy as such are Gully

[00:33:44] no but ultimately

[00:33:46] it's duty

[00:33:48] to his country I guess it's coming from

[00:33:50] that perspective

[00:33:52] thanks Patrick for that really good

[00:33:54] bit of feedback

[00:33:56] really a great catch

[00:33:58] thanks Patrick

[00:34:00] but given all this commotion

[00:34:02] given that

[00:34:04] the English League know

[00:34:06] that the storm

[00:34:08] cloud vile is not

[00:34:10] is not real

[00:34:12] that it's a fake that actually

[00:34:14] it's already in place to be detonated

[00:34:16] I think moving on to our

[00:34:18] second point of the English League

[00:34:20] this causes

[00:34:22] disease

[00:34:24] to offer surrender which salt

[00:34:26] refuses

[00:34:28] with salt saying

[00:34:30] you can say goodbye but I won't give

[00:34:32] you enough time to escape

[00:34:34] I love the fact that there are some people

[00:34:36] in the English League

[00:34:38] that go right see ya I'm off

[00:34:40] bye you'd have a go yeah so they

[00:34:42] make their way and then others

[00:34:44] are resigning themselves

[00:34:46] effectively this is where you get the big

[00:34:48] guess to the proposal of marriage

[00:34:50] for both of them

[00:34:52] ultimately you know that

[00:34:54] Martha Stanserground says

[00:34:56] I'm not going to try and leave you know Thomas's

[00:34:58] first reaction is

[00:35:00] let's try and get you on a plane out of

[00:35:02] here as quickly as possible

[00:35:04] and Martha's kind of no I've

[00:35:06] I've

[00:35:08] spent the last however many years

[00:35:10] of my life helping to defend

[00:35:12] the English League

[00:35:14] and be a part of

[00:35:16] this struggle I want to stay

[00:35:18] here but I want to be married to you

[00:35:20] and you have this

[00:35:22] ceremony of marriage performed

[00:35:24] by Aziz

[00:35:26] he's really chipper about the fact that they've asked him

[00:35:28] I know it's like well might as well

[00:35:30] do we have nothing else to do we're all going to die anyway

[00:35:32] so why not have a lovely

[00:35:34] the ceremony but I love that it is a really quick

[00:35:36] ceremony that Aziz gives very much

[00:35:38] do you take her to be your wife

[00:35:40] do you take him to be your husband

[00:35:42] yes kiss the bride right off we go

[00:35:44] so

[00:35:46] a wartime wedding for the Wains

[00:35:48] yes like that nice

[00:35:50] nice little moment and we do have

[00:35:52] Thomas and Martha Wayne married

[00:35:54] going into season 2 with

[00:35:56] a baby on the way

[00:35:58] which we'll come back to

[00:36:00] we will come back to that for sure

[00:36:02] because it is not the baby you think

[00:36:04] it might be

[00:36:06] well it's even more not the baby that you think

[00:36:08] it might be as well

[00:36:10] our prediction was also wrong

[00:36:12] we'll come back to it in a second

[00:36:14] our last major point is about

[00:36:16] the Raven Union usually

[00:36:18] but this time we have changed it to

[00:36:20] Beth and Peggy Sight's

[00:36:22] dismantling the Raven Union basically with a couple of quick punches

[00:36:24] and a couple of quick kicks

[00:36:26] we have Beth and Peggy

[00:36:28] still waiting in the penthouse

[00:36:30] for John Salt to arrive because they've

[00:36:32] got his partner Vicky de French

[00:36:34] they've used her to get themselves

[00:36:36] up to the penthouse

[00:36:38] and we have yes another wonderful

[00:36:40] Peggy moment where she's

[00:36:42] wow what's the phrase losing the rag

[00:36:44] with John Salt

[00:36:46] I love that she

[00:36:48] makes Vicky de French take the first punch

[00:36:50] on Salt

[00:36:52] makes her hit him

[00:36:54] knocking him down and then

[00:36:56] she can take action effectively

[00:36:58] Beth can kick him and punch him as much

[00:37:00] as possible trying to use

[00:37:02] a little bit of reverse psychology on her

[00:37:04] when she finds the button that controls

[00:37:06] Storm Kled

[00:37:08] trying to tell her no you can't press that button

[00:37:10] don't do it

[00:37:12] trying to get her to press the button because he seems

[00:37:14] to know that's the kind of thing that Beth

[00:37:16] would do once again

[00:37:18] Peggy stepping in and kind of going

[00:37:20] he's trying to be smart with you

[00:37:22] don't let him do it, don't let him twist you

[00:37:24] but ultimately it comes down to that

[00:37:26] it comes out to enter the battle over the activation button

[00:37:28] in Raven HQ and

[00:37:30] and he gets to press it as well and we know

[00:37:32] because we've been seeing the other side of the battle

[00:37:34] we know that they haven't been able to deactivate

[00:37:36] the other side but he does get to push the button

[00:37:38] in this scene here so

[00:37:40] Yeah, he activates the destination

[00:37:42] which is kind of because it seems

[00:37:44] you know got to be an aerosol

[00:37:46] you see it starting to fuse

[00:37:48] in the capsule

[00:37:50] that is

[00:37:52] in the church in London

[00:37:54] that Alfie and Lucius

[00:37:56] are all trying to diffuse

[00:37:58] and figure out what to do with it

[00:38:00] so I mean there's some nice intercutting

[00:38:02] here, I think the

[00:38:04] painting of John Salt by

[00:38:06] Peggy

[00:38:08] again got

[00:38:10] I guess it's the hair

[00:38:12] on John Salt, it kind of goes all

[00:38:14] curly and out of shape

[00:38:16] and it's very comedic

[00:38:18] Oh no, it's not just the hair

[00:38:20] it's also the teeth and the teeth in this case

[00:38:22] brutalised by Bette as well

[00:38:24] being kicked multiple, multiple times

[00:38:26] and because he's pressed the button

[00:38:28] we have Francis Gaunt in here in the room

[00:38:30] and we have

[00:38:32] Field Marshal Thursday

[00:38:34] arriving in with his forces

[00:38:36] to take down John Salt

[00:38:38] he's pushed the button, they know this

[00:38:40] they know he's gone mad, they know he's lost control of the Raven Union

[00:38:42] so Raven Union is now

[00:38:44] back under control of Francis Gaunt

[00:38:46] Well that's it because we have this strange

[00:38:48] kind of thing right at the start

[00:38:50] where John Salt is flicking

[00:38:52] elastic bands at

[00:38:54] the army guards and then

[00:38:56] fires them at

[00:38:58] Field Marshal Thursday

[00:39:00] and then he's

[00:39:02] given the information that

[00:39:04] this is all going to happen anyway

[00:39:06] and so

[00:39:08] very much John Salt has done

[00:39:10] this coup within

[00:39:12] the Raven Union structures

[00:39:14] but sidelined the army

[00:39:16] just like we talked about last week

[00:39:18] all of these men are wearing their kind of Nazi

[00:39:20] outfits for the Raven Union

[00:39:22] and then they take Thursday away

[00:39:24] and take all of his men away as well

[00:39:26] but it's interesting

[00:39:28] because I almost felt as well

[00:39:30] that John Salt

[00:39:32] because he comes up to the penthouse

[00:39:34] because he's in his main office

[00:39:36] and

[00:39:38] you know

[00:39:40] he's there opening and closing

[00:39:42] the protector over the button

[00:39:44] it almost felt like he was a little hesitant

[00:39:46] that there was some kind of

[00:39:48] realisation

[00:39:50] of what impact

[00:39:52] and the consequences or the ramifications

[00:39:54] of pushing that

[00:39:56] button would have

[00:39:58] and certainly given

[00:40:00] he's just declined

[00:40:02] the surrender of the English League

[00:40:04] the challenge by Field Marshal Thursday

[00:40:06] and so it's

[00:40:08] he goes off up to his penthouse

[00:40:10] in order to kind of

[00:40:12] I guess maybe get away from

[00:40:14] those staring eyes

[00:40:16] the eyes of judgement

[00:40:18] I remember this is a reference to last

[00:40:20] episode when he told Elphi

[00:40:22] if he dropped Storm Claid who would become

[00:40:24] the biggest mass murderer in the world

[00:40:26] and killing all of those innocents

[00:40:28] in the local towns in the area

[00:40:30] that's what he's about to become

[00:40:32] when he pushes that button

[00:40:34] he may have murdered people

[00:40:36] as we've seen, he's tortured and killed people

[00:40:38] in the past that we've seen on screen

[00:40:40] he's led people to their death

[00:40:42] like Harwood but now if he pushes

[00:40:44] that button on his own

[00:40:46] he's becoming a mass murderer

[00:40:48] so you hear him saying to himself

[00:40:50] John this is your time

[00:40:52] you can do this so you hear him talking to himself

[00:40:54] like a crazy cartoon character

[00:40:56] that he is by this stage

[00:40:58] the crazy comic book DC character

[00:41:00] affected that he's become

[00:41:02] so he's trying to talk himself into it

[00:41:04] but it feels like he is hesitant

[00:41:06] and it feels that

[00:41:08] the intervention of Betts and Peggy

[00:41:10] Sykes here

[00:41:12] because they take

[00:41:14] the trigger control away from him

[00:41:16] it suddenly becomes about

[00:41:18] the plan that he's done

[00:41:20] and so I don't want to be

[00:41:22] failed because of someone else

[00:41:24] if I'm not going to hit the button

[00:41:26] because it's me making that decision

[00:41:28] so be it

[00:41:30] but because

[00:41:32] they take away that trigger

[00:41:34] he gets involved in a brawl

[00:41:36] to do it and manage it

[00:41:38] it's almost like a thumb war that they have

[00:41:40] on the trigger

[00:41:42] but he manages to depress it

[00:41:44] and that's when you see him become

[00:41:46] a bit maniacal

[00:41:48] really and with the kind of

[00:41:50] full set of bloody

[00:41:52] broken teeth

[00:41:54] he really does

[00:41:56] kind of look like

[00:41:58] the crazy mad

[00:42:00] scientist that has developed this

[00:42:02] who has become

[00:42:04] the crazy mad politician

[00:42:06] so it's great visuals

[00:42:08] I think for John Salt

[00:42:10] for sure but he is ultimately

[00:42:12] carted away

[00:42:14] by Thursday

[00:42:16] not Wednesday

[00:42:18] with Francis Gaunt

[00:42:20] assuming

[00:42:22] the role of

[00:42:24] the leader of the Raven Union

[00:42:26] I'm in control there

[00:42:28] and of course with all of that

[00:42:30] it seems like

[00:42:32] maybe

[00:42:34] the negotiation for peace between the two

[00:42:36] would happen on a level

[00:42:38] playing field

[00:42:40] where we saw

[00:42:42] approach one another on the field

[00:42:44] when

[00:42:46] the intentions were deemed to be

[00:42:48] pure by at least the English League

[00:42:50] so you kind of think

[00:42:52] maybe with Francis Gaunt

[00:42:54] that it would get better but it cuts

[00:42:56] she is certainly

[00:42:58] more restrained of everybody that's involved

[00:43:00] in the Raven Union she questioned Harwood

[00:43:02] when he was going off the deep end

[00:43:04] under the control of Salt effectively

[00:43:06] she clearly questioned Salt a bit too much

[00:43:08] and that's why she ended off

[00:43:10] where she was as well

[00:43:12] with her in charge and with Thursday

[00:43:14] in charge now remember Thursday

[00:43:16] of course is the one that's been saying

[00:43:18] that he was about to win the war

[00:43:20] so he is certainly against

[00:43:22] the English League he certainly

[00:43:24] he wouldn't be looking for peace

[00:43:26] he would be looking for the win here

[00:43:28] but you're right yeah it cuts to

[00:43:30] our actual final point

[00:43:32] our post credit scene almost

[00:43:34] our passage of time six months later

[00:43:36] the battle actually rages on is what we find

[00:43:38] we

[00:43:40] cut to the opening scene where we have

[00:43:42] Thomas and Martha sitting

[00:43:44] on the couch Martha now

[00:43:46] fully pregnant at this stage bombs going off

[00:43:48] outside the house as they're watching

[00:43:50] broadcasts from

[00:43:52] the English League that get interrupted by

[00:43:54] the Raven

[00:43:56] Union's version of Blue Peter

[00:43:58] yeah it really did look like that

[00:44:00] Blue Peter being a British magazine

[00:44:02] show for children it's got very

[00:44:04] upbeat hosts always very positive

[00:44:06] and they come in with a really

[00:44:08] positive vibe of don't

[00:44:10] don't adjust your sets the Raven Union have taken

[00:44:12] over you don't need to worry now we're in control

[00:44:14] from from one

[00:44:16] end of the country to the other so it feels like

[00:44:18] they have now broken into London at this

[00:44:20] stage and they have broken the borders

[00:44:22] and starting to take control of London

[00:44:24] at least BBC television said that they've broken

[00:44:26] into and taking control yeah it looks more like

[00:44:28] they've cut the signal and

[00:44:30] they're now broadcasting on their own

[00:44:32] frequency

[00:44:34] to get into

[00:44:36] every box set

[00:44:38] TV box of

[00:44:40] anyone in London

[00:44:42] and again another great little

[00:44:44] aerial visual I think they've done this

[00:44:46] really well this season of

[00:44:48] London being bombarded

[00:44:50] by the Raven Union missiles

[00:44:52] absolutely and just looked at my notes

[00:44:54] and realized I completely forgot what the

[00:44:56] actual broadcast that Thomas and Martha were watching

[00:44:58] it was Sandra has made

[00:45:00] it as a

[00:45:02] big singer she's on TV now she's singing

[00:45:04] rock and roll suicide the David Bowie song

[00:45:06] beautifully singing it once again I love

[00:45:08] the choice of music that had been given to Sandra

[00:45:10] the whole way through this series but

[00:45:12] that's the broadcast that Thomas and Martha are watching

[00:45:14] Alfie's

[00:45:16] old girlfriend who he dumped

[00:45:18] and then went back to has now made it so it is

[00:45:20] at least she gets

[00:45:22] a nice happy ending for her story

[00:45:24] yeah exactly but

[00:45:26] as the bombs rain down

[00:45:28] Martha is going to go off

[00:45:30] and fight but her waters break

[00:45:32] and you see then

[00:45:34] war baby a war baby exactly

[00:45:36] but it is a baby girl

[00:45:38] yes it is

[00:45:40] that is the big craziness here

[00:45:42] that we I mean it's not crazy

[00:45:44] but it in terms of

[00:45:46] I guess the preconceptions

[00:45:48] that we had of

[00:45:50] it could have been Bruce but I know at

[00:45:52] least I thought that

[00:45:54] and

[00:45:56] Alfie was too young still

[00:45:58] compared to Gotham

[00:46:00] and if even if it maybe

[00:46:02] isn't a continuity

[00:46:04] but that timeline

[00:46:06] would mean you know he would be too

[00:46:08] young yeah and I think one Brunner

[00:46:10] Heller announced that Martha was going to be pregnant this season

[00:46:12] I think in general most

[00:46:14] people thought pregnant with Bruce

[00:46:16] yeah it was the was the concept but

[00:46:18] we talked about on the podcast

[00:46:20] a couple of weeks ago a couple episodes ago

[00:46:22] we were wondering whether her being pregnant

[00:46:24] there is in continuity

[00:46:26] an older sibling to Bruce

[00:46:28] there is a Thomas Wayne Junior and we were going

[00:46:30] do you think they do that do you think they pull

[00:46:32] the rug out of the major audience and go

[00:46:34] we'll have Thomas Wayne Junior here

[00:46:36] well they went even further

[00:46:38] they pulled the rug out of us and

[00:46:40] and they now have a sister

[00:46:42] a a a Wayne

[00:46:44] girl has been born here

[00:46:46] now one thing you always have to

[00:46:48] remember with comic books and you know DC

[00:46:50] has probably got a bit more of this than

[00:46:52] Marvel do in general remember Marvel

[00:46:54] has a big connected

[00:46:56] movie universe so for the most part

[00:46:58] they don't have multiverses

[00:47:00] at the moment but in the TV

[00:47:02] series for

[00:47:04] the DC shows like for example Flash

[00:47:06] on the CW will be the prime

[00:47:08] example of this every single character

[00:47:10] lives in a different universe

[00:47:12] they regularly travel to earth

[00:47:14] 1 through 99 or earth

[00:47:16] 1 through 700

[00:47:18] effectively so they have multiple

[00:47:20] Earths where there's multiple different versions of the characters that we see

[00:47:22] and they use that quite a lot

[00:47:24] in DC TV specifically

[00:47:26] Marvel TV doesn't

[00:47:28] tend to use that very often we know we're going

[00:47:30] into a multiverse time

[00:47:32] in Marvel Universe so we

[00:47:34] may see some of that in the future

[00:47:36] but for the most part we don't see it

[00:47:38] very much in Marvel it's mostly a DC thing

[00:47:40] so what's happened here is there is now

[00:47:42] a continuity where

[00:47:44] Pennyworth the TV show and potentially

[00:47:46] Gotham the TV show live

[00:47:48] in their own DC universe

[00:47:50] in the same way that Supergirl

[00:47:52] when it was originally created was on its own

[00:47:54] universe and then it moved over to

[00:47:56] where all the other CW shows

[00:47:58] sit they're now all in the same universe

[00:48:00] so I thought that was really interesting

[00:48:02] the idea you know obviously not

[00:48:04] beyond the realm of possibility that Thomas

[00:48:06] and Martha could have a girl

[00:48:08] in some other alternate

[00:48:10] universe right so it seems like another

[00:48:12] Earth story right absolutely

[00:48:14] it really really does

[00:48:16] so like fur Jews again

[00:48:18] the hellaverse we'll call it because

[00:48:20] the hellaverse that is a good name

[00:48:22] I like that yes

[00:48:24] but yeah I mean

[00:48:26] so again I think as

[00:48:28] we were saying at the start

[00:48:30] this would be really nice to see

[00:48:32] in a season 3 for sure

[00:48:34] a couple of years jump

[00:48:36] yeah years and then we have a young

[00:48:38] a young daughter of

[00:48:40] Thomas and Martha and see how she's

[00:48:42] how she's getting on yeah definitely

[00:48:44] I think it'd be really really interesting

[00:48:46] and just to mention you kind of mentioned earlier

[00:48:48] you're on as well just gone to Thursday

[00:48:50] or in control of the Raven Union they are certainly leading this attack

[00:48:52] on London which you kind of wouldn't have expected

[00:48:54] as you mentioned you kind of would have expected that

[00:48:56] they would have had some kind of

[00:48:58] overture towards the Raven Union

[00:49:00] and the English League

[00:49:02] coming together in some way

[00:49:04] since all of this battle that happened

[00:49:06] this might have been a turning point in this battle

[00:49:08] but what we find is everybody

[00:49:10] all of our main characters that we've been following

[00:49:12] are now in the English League

[00:49:14] we have Alfie, Beth, Dave, Boyd, we have Katie

[00:49:16] as well all of the front lines here

[00:49:18] Katie and Beth specifically

[00:49:20] are trying to take down a tank

[00:49:22] from the Raven Union that has arrived in the city

[00:49:24] London is looking

[00:49:26] very much in disarray from all the bombing that's been going on

[00:49:28] yeah proper urban warfare

[00:49:30] you know with all the bricks

[00:49:32] and all the

[00:49:34] destruction sort of

[00:49:36] around and about

[00:49:38] but it's a really, there's a real funny moment where

[00:49:42] the Raven Union have got tanks

[00:49:44] they've got machine guns

[00:49:46] and you know it looks more like the English League

[00:49:48] are kind of resistance

[00:49:50] fighters that really is a matter of time

[00:49:52] and then this bread van

[00:49:54] pulls up with Alfie

[00:49:56] and Dave Boyd

[00:49:58] and there's some really funny

[00:50:00] snide remarks coming from the Raven Union soldiers

[00:50:02] absolutely

[00:50:04] I'll have a ham and cheese sandwich please

[00:50:06] or they start off

[00:50:08] with is this a tank

[00:50:10] no it's a bloody bread van

[00:50:12] so I put out

[00:50:14] of this bread van does

[00:50:16] come the

[00:50:18] English League secret weapon

[00:50:20] which is a weaponized

[00:50:22] gully toy

[00:50:24] feels like a Christmas tree though

[00:50:26] who is able now

[00:50:28] to fire I guess

[00:50:30] bolts of storm cloud

[00:50:32] out and directed

[00:50:34] at the

[00:50:36] Raven Union soldiers who have that same effect

[00:50:38] where they go blue and then grey

[00:50:40] almost like they turn to black and white

[00:50:42] TV footage

[00:50:44] and we have Lucius

[00:50:46] Fox there as well

[00:50:48] bringing him out so looks like

[00:50:50] Lucius Fox has had a

[00:50:52] role in his

[00:50:54] development should we say

[00:50:56] I think Lucius probably created the suit

[00:50:58] that he has to wear effectively to keep him alive

[00:51:00] that's what I think is happening here

[00:51:02] yeah it's really interesting

[00:51:04] at this moment I'd rather like a really fun moment

[00:51:06] because it's such a surprise

[00:51:08] that gully is still alive and he's the super

[00:51:10] powered soldier also interesting to

[00:51:12] notice Alfie is now a colonel

[00:51:14] in the English League

[00:51:16] we see Beth talking to him

[00:51:18] like she knows him basically and he kind of says

[00:51:20] have you forgotten your manners soldier effectively

[00:51:22] so he is now a colonel

[00:51:24] in the English League

[00:51:26] yeah real shocker but also

[00:51:28] you don't think the English League were going to be winning this battle

[00:51:30] you see some of the lads

[00:51:32] from the team running up with

[00:51:34] their rocket launcher trying to take out the

[00:51:36] the tank

[00:51:38] one rocket misses

[00:51:40] completely and the second one

[00:51:42] he takes so long

[00:51:44] setting up the shot that they all get blown away

[00:51:46] and killed

[00:51:48] yeah you know with Griller warfare has to be quick

[00:51:50] and you have to maintain cover

[00:51:52] or else this may happen to you

[00:51:54] but yes that is our final moment we have

[00:51:56] Pennyworth and the boys going over

[00:51:58] the top effectively Pennyworth in the lead

[00:52:00] of Katie and Beth

[00:52:02] and now

[00:52:04] Super powered Gully who does look like Mr. Freeze

[00:52:06] as you mentioned earlier on

[00:52:08] yes going into the final battle

[00:52:10] with the Raven Union

[00:52:12] yeah I mean it feels really comic booky

[00:52:14] actually with Gully in that suit

[00:52:16] that's where it's kind of like

[00:52:18] it feels

[00:52:20] the link to Gotham

[00:52:22] has maybe started

[00:52:24] seeing this

[00:52:26] super

[00:52:28] fueled I guess

[00:52:30] in a super powered

[00:52:32] protagonist

[00:52:35] in this episode

[00:52:37] were you expecting the moment because when we

[00:52:39] not to keep going back to Gotham

[00:52:41] but back in Gotham there was a moment

[00:52:43] where all of our major cast

[00:52:45] at the end of season

[00:52:47] middle of season 5 I think it was

[00:52:49] where the whole of the cast of our team of Gotham

[00:52:51] got together to battle the attackers

[00:52:53] shouting for Gotham out loud

[00:52:55] to the air as they

[00:52:57] went into battle it really felt like

[00:52:59] you could have had a for London moment here

[00:53:01] where Alfie shouted that out in the lead

[00:53:03] but that's where we leave

[00:53:05] Pennyworth the show

[00:53:07] Pennyworth season 2

[00:53:09] with this battle still raging

[00:53:11] so we had hoped that the battle would be over

[00:53:13] the

[00:53:15] war would be over and maybe season 3

[00:53:17] if there is one would move on

[00:53:19] and we'd have a resolution to that that didn't happen

[00:53:21] we still have that war raging on

[00:53:23] no clear winner here at the moment

[00:53:25] but if Gully is able to do that

[00:53:27] to every person that he comes across

[00:53:29] it will not be a long war

[00:53:31] absolutely it just has to be placed in the right

[00:53:33] position to attack everybody

[00:53:35] and take them all out

[00:53:37] and we have a baby girl for Thomas and Martha

[00:53:39] another shocker and yeah

[00:53:41] at least Sandra's made it I suppose

[00:53:43] yeah she certainly has

[00:53:45] and third use to Sandra

[00:53:47] she has shown everyone that she can do it

[00:53:49] so good stuff

[00:53:51] any notes about the episode John?

[00:53:53] just a quick one I didn't

[00:53:55] for some reason didn't mention it when we were talking

[00:53:57] about Mr and Mrs P

[00:53:59] coming back together again

[00:54:01] or reintroduced to one another

[00:54:03] but there is a real emotional moment

[00:54:05] where Alfred has gone off

[00:54:07] to save London from the

[00:54:09] real storm cloud device

[00:54:11] which is

[00:54:13] just a moment shared between

[00:54:15] Mr Pennyworth and Mrs Pennyworth

[00:54:17] and you know

[00:54:19] she feels she's got her husband back

[00:54:21] that

[00:54:23] they can begin to rebuild

[00:54:25] it's in this moment where

[00:54:27] Alfie's dad pulls the plug

[00:54:29] on himself on his life

[00:54:31] support system and passes away

[00:54:33] in effect killing himself

[00:54:35] as

[00:54:37] his wife has gone back

[00:54:39] to get

[00:54:41] some tea or some biscuits

[00:54:43] for you know

[00:54:45] there's also this like comedic touch

[00:54:47] to it because

[00:54:49] the sound of

[00:54:51] the machine turning off

[00:54:53] is effectively like

[00:54:55] a deadline telephone

[00:54:57] from an old style telephone

[00:54:59] where it's like beep

[00:55:01] beep

[00:55:03] beep

[00:55:05] it's very kind of you know

[00:55:07] the Star Trek kind of thing as well

[00:55:09] we used to have landlines at home when we were younger

[00:55:11] both of us because we're old now

[00:55:13] but we used to have landlines

[00:55:15] and you would hear the deadline

[00:55:17] tone very often on

[00:55:19] phone lines so it really did sound like it

[00:55:21] but it's like

[00:55:23] the machine in a hospital as well

[00:55:25] that's why they chose it

[00:55:27] and probably for some of our younger listeners

[00:55:29] and younger viewers of Pennyworth

[00:55:31] they may not recognize that tone

[00:55:33] and may think it is a hospital tone

[00:55:35] but it is a phone line going dead

[00:55:37] what I also love about the scene is

[00:55:39] she's having the conversation with him as he's dying

[00:55:41] and she calls him a silly sod

[00:55:43] basically and that's when his green light

[00:55:45] goes to red so the moment he dies

[00:55:47] that's what he hears

[00:55:49] the moment he's saying things that Mrs. P

[00:55:51] says about him afterwards or the other criticism

[00:55:53] that she says about him afterwards

[00:55:55] but it is actually a really touching

[00:55:57] moment where she kind of cups his hand

[00:55:59] when she realizes that he's dead

[00:56:01] and that you know

[00:56:03] the plug has been

[00:56:05] taken out effectively

[00:56:07] he's disconnected, he's ventilated

[00:56:09] keeps him breathing

[00:56:11] they have a really nice little

[00:56:13] conversation beforehand

[00:56:15] where

[00:56:17] she says at last you're being sensible

[00:56:19] you know

[00:56:21] he says no I'm not being sensible

[00:56:23] I'm being sentimental, you know he's happy

[00:56:25] that he's finally back

[00:56:27] with his wife

[00:56:29] who has forgiven him

[00:56:31] but still what if he was wrong

[00:56:33] still won't admit that he's wrong

[00:56:35] but ultimately

[00:56:37] I'm not being sensible because if I was being sensible

[00:56:39] I'd still do the same thing

[00:56:41] wouldn't have told you about stroke and being sentimental

[00:56:43] to keep your family, yeah exactly

[00:56:45] I think it's a really good moment for him that he's still not admitting that he's wrong

[00:56:47] he still believes in his beliefs

[00:56:49] but for his wife and for his son

[00:56:51] he'll save them

[00:56:53] and I think that he is dying here

[00:56:55] anyway

[00:56:57] I think the suit is prolonging his life

[00:56:59] rather than

[00:57:01] a permanent

[00:57:03] way of keeping him alive

[00:57:05] until old age

[00:57:07] old age, you know

[00:57:09] so it's just a

[00:57:11] should mention the death of

[00:57:13] Pennyworth as well

[00:57:15] because as well Alfred is not there to see it

[00:57:17] yep, yep absolutely

[00:57:19] that's it for our coverage of

[00:57:21] Pennyworth season 2

[00:57:23] John how would you rate the episode?

[00:57:25] I would give this 4 crazy

[00:57:27] machine gun toting chaplains out of 5

[00:57:29] you know

[00:57:31] this is not

[00:57:33] usual final episode

[00:57:35] it's got a lot of intrigue

[00:57:37] in there

[00:57:39] with the

[00:57:41] baby

[00:57:43] girl

[00:57:45] born to Martha and Thomas

[00:57:47] like fantastic

[00:57:49] and I really hope season 3

[00:57:51] if there is one

[00:57:53] can just explore that

[00:57:55] that would be really really interesting

[00:57:57] and you have a real crazy

[00:57:59] comic booky side of things

[00:58:01] with gully and with storm cloud

[00:58:03] and gully

[00:58:05] becoming human bomb

[00:58:07] and

[00:58:09] this new weapon

[00:58:11] that is being used to defeat the

[00:58:13] Raven Union and you have some really

[00:58:15] emotional moments in the

[00:58:17] Pennyworth household between

[00:58:19] Dad, Maum and Alfie

[00:58:21] and I think it really kind of pulls

[00:58:23] things nicely

[00:58:25] together for this season 2

[00:58:27] and I think you know

[00:58:29] Bruno Heller was looking to

[00:58:31] establish this foursome

[00:58:33] of Lucius, Thomas, Martha

[00:58:35] and Alfred Pennyworth

[00:58:37] you know those four pillars

[00:58:39] that

[00:58:41] are supporting

[00:58:43] Bruce Wayne in the future

[00:58:45] and are an inspiration to him

[00:58:49] during his life

[00:58:51] then he has

[00:58:53] set that up and I think it's

[00:58:55] all massively

[00:58:57] interesting and intriguing to think

[00:58:59] what can be taken

[00:59:01] further with season 3

[00:59:03] so we'll see if we get a season 3

[00:59:05] who knows but certainly

[00:59:07] we have

[00:59:09] the death of John Salt

[00:59:11] we see the dispossession of John Salt

[00:59:13] from the Raven Union

[00:59:15] High Command we see Francis Gaunt

[00:59:17] being a ruthless

[00:59:19] you know

[00:59:21] as Field Marshall Thursday

[00:59:23] in terms of pushing their advantage

[00:59:27] and just in conventional warfare

[00:59:29] and so you know

[00:59:31] this really does wrap it up

[00:59:33] so I mean

[00:59:35] I really kind of enjoyed

[00:59:37] this and I think the emotional

[00:59:39] moments coupled with the more comic

[00:59:41] book and the weirdness

[00:59:43] the wonderful weirdness that I think

[00:59:45] you can really get from these

[00:59:47] episodes was

[00:59:49] fantastic.

[00:59:51] Really good.

[00:59:53] And just a reminder at the end of this season

[00:59:55] I remember this was a show that was filming

[00:59:57] half before Covid and then got

[00:59:59] shut down. I remember

[01:00:01] John was in a conversation

[01:00:03] around the time that they went back to filming

[01:00:05] and were finishing up the season

[01:00:07] and he was saying at the time that

[01:00:09] things had to change quite clearly

[01:00:11] they came back and were filming during the time

[01:00:13] I covered there were one of the first shows back

[01:00:15] filming and he said that a lot of scenes

[01:00:17] where there would have been big battle sequences

[01:00:19] or big fight sequences had to be changed

[01:00:21] so you had things like I would presume

[01:00:23] the standoff that we had in

[01:00:25] Raven Union headquarters where

[01:00:27] lots of people are around

[01:00:29] and guns at each other you kind of expect

[01:00:31] from the history of Alfa Pennyworth in the show

[01:00:33] that would be a bit of a punch up, a bit of a dust up

[01:00:35] there going on with them. A lot of the scenes

[01:00:37] had to be filmed differently

[01:00:39] but I think they accomplished a really good

[01:00:41] ending for the show we've seen

[01:00:43] at least one of the show that ended this year

[01:00:45] that had some quite severe restrictions where we lost

[01:00:47] some major characters

[01:00:49] didn't get the end of their stories

[01:00:51] I'm talking about one division here John

[01:00:53] Yeah yeah absolutely.

[01:00:55] Some major characters didn't get the end of their stories because they couldn't come back

[01:00:57] before filming at the end effectively

[01:00:59] so I think they did a really good job of wrapping up

[01:01:01] the story the way they did and making it feel like

[01:01:03] it was still as epic as the show

[01:01:05] has been for these last two seasons

[01:01:07] so I'm really hopeful to see what happens

[01:01:09] if they get a third season

[01:01:11] having worked under those kind of restrictions

[01:01:13] I suppose let's see what

[01:01:15] they would get in future. Definitely

[01:01:17] definitely. We do have

[01:01:19] some feedback for our final episode we did hold off

[01:01:21] on recording our final episode until after it had aired

[01:01:23] so we did get some feedback in

[01:01:25] first up Patrick Lemke responded to our

[01:01:27] episode last week

[01:01:29] our season 2 episode 9 podcast he says

[01:01:31] great listen I'm hoping for a third season of the show

[01:01:33] in terms of where Alfred's story could go next

[01:01:35] considering he'll likely be the country's hero

[01:01:37] by the end of season maybe he gets another

[01:01:39] offer as an MI6 agent

[01:01:41] after the Reven Union has dealt with there could be

[01:01:43] other threats he could face before

[01:01:45] going to the US. I'm reminded of a line

[01:01:47] in season 1 episode 4 in the news

[01:01:49] broadcast about Germany and Netherlands

[01:01:51] that could be a potential issue at the show's time

[01:01:53] that Alfred as an MI6 agent

[01:01:55] could deal with. Yeah that

[01:01:57] could be really really interesting

[01:01:59] thanks Patrick for that

[01:02:01] and certainly you know it could

[01:02:03] tie into

[01:02:05] Thomas

[01:02:07] Wayne CIA

[01:02:09] credentials and also

[01:02:11] with Martha possibly

[01:02:13] still being employed as an advisor

[01:02:15] to the English League

[01:02:17] about maybe removing

[01:02:19] other you know

[01:02:21] authoritarian regimes from around Europe

[01:02:23] that is of course when the Reven Union

[01:02:25] is dealt with because they're still not dealt

[01:02:27] with at the end of the season but looking more

[01:02:29] likely and a little more powerful than that

[01:02:31] we have Gully onside. Thanks so much for that Patrick

[01:02:33] also over on Twitter Debbie Fincham says

[01:02:35] great twists fantastic

[01:02:37] action scenes bring on season 3

[01:02:39] after watching the finale

[01:02:41] yeah Debbie totally totally with you on that

[01:02:43] absolutely

[01:02:45] great twists indeed Debbie

[01:02:47] yeah Dulce and Bashitha says

[01:02:49] it's a girl I mean how

[01:02:51] Batman never had a sister

[01:02:53] so I thought comb through everywhere

[01:02:55] just to find a clue about who she is

[01:02:57] so far nothing I need some

[01:02:59] fricking answers here. I don't

[01:03:01] think there are any answers

[01:03:03] except for the answer

[01:03:05] provided by

[01:03:07] Pennyworth uh Dalshan

[01:03:09] I think this is um a

[01:03:11] a holy

[01:03:13] new thing a holy

[01:03:15] guacamole new thing for

[01:03:17] Batman yeah and and for the

[01:03:19] Waynes and

[01:03:21] the origin is in

[01:03:23] this show that it was

[01:03:25] a love child between

[01:03:27] Thomas and Martha Wayne

[01:03:29] and that has in

[01:03:31] part brought them together to be married

[01:03:33] and I guess

[01:03:35] we

[01:03:37] have no clues other than

[01:03:39] that. Well my speculation is that it's just

[01:03:41] another earth just like all

[01:03:43] the DC comic properties that

[01:03:45] have gone to movies and TV

[01:03:47] they've created another earth here

[01:03:49] you know they they've made reference to

[01:03:51] the fact that Michael Keaton's Batman

[01:03:53] in the movies is on a completely

[01:03:55] different earth to Christian Bale's

[01:03:57] version of Batman

[01:03:59] is on a different earth to Ben Affleck's

[01:04:01] version of Batman you know all of those are

[01:04:03] on different earth so what we're seeing here I think

[01:04:05] is another earth where

[01:04:07] it's just a sister that

[01:04:09] Bruce Wayne has and not as

[01:04:11] massively shocking as some of the other ones we've had

[01:04:13] we've had an entire movie where

[01:04:15] the Joker thinks that he's Bruce Wayne's brother

[01:04:17] and that he's born to Thomas Wayne and was

[01:04:19] thrown into a

[01:04:21] psychiatric facility right and so

[01:04:23] if that's possible

[01:04:25] surely it's possible that there's another universe

[01:04:27] where a sister is born right

[01:04:29] absolutely.

[01:04:31] Dilton did respond to that and said

[01:04:33] so they're adding another earth to the equation

[01:04:35] like we haven't had enough thank god for

[01:04:37] crisis in that matter

[01:04:39] but anyways that's a possibility and a great

[01:04:41] answer and crisis that

[01:04:43] when they brought all of those

[01:04:45] various earths back together I suppose

[01:04:47] so

[01:04:49] a consolidation and rationalization

[01:04:51] of the DC Universe.

[01:04:53] Exactly, so good thoughts as well Dilton

[01:04:55] over on email Victor

[01:04:57] Sellar sent us an email. Yes Victor

[01:04:59] says, greetings all

[01:05:01] I'm a Marvel defender but could not

[01:05:03] resist commenting on this season

[01:05:05] and your podcasts

[01:05:07] I truly enjoyed the arc of the

[01:05:09] psych sisters and bets beat down of salt

[01:05:11] were shocked at the newly married

[01:05:13] Wayne's expecting a daughter

[01:05:15] I suppose much more

[01:05:17] will happen before Bruce's arrival

[01:05:19] I question how a couple

[01:05:21] of their experience were killed

[01:05:23] by a street thug in Gotham

[01:05:25] Congrats on your

[01:05:27] great podcast yours Victor

[01:05:29] Von Doom. Yet thanks

[01:05:31] so much Victor for this I completely agree

[01:05:33] as soon as you mention it

[01:05:35] I absolutely

[01:05:37] understand

[01:05:39] your reasoning

[01:05:41] around you know with

[01:05:43] their experience in general

[01:05:45] warfare in espionage

[01:05:47] in sub defuge

[01:05:49] and being kind of

[01:05:51] you know pragmatic

[01:05:53] and all that

[01:05:55] that's a street

[01:05:57] thug in Gotham could

[01:05:59] have been overcome but I guess

[01:06:01] as well they were just unlucky

[01:06:03] Maybe, yeah

[01:06:05] I can't remember they were at a point

[01:06:07] where they weren't expecting anything to happen

[01:06:09] they just got out to the opera with Bruce

[01:06:11] for the evening or the cinema depending on which

[01:06:13] version of the movies or

[01:06:15] comics that you've seen

[01:06:17] they were completely caught on awareness by a street thug

[01:06:19] and I'm not sure

[01:06:21] whether Thomas is that much of a fight

[01:06:23] Well yeah that's true

[01:06:25] I think Thomas is a bit of a talker and that's kind of what happens

[01:06:27] effectively at least in the majority

[01:06:29] of the stories street thug

[01:06:31] tries to steal from Martha

[01:06:33] Thomas tries to talk him down

[01:06:35] and the street thug shoots Martha

[01:06:37] and then shoots Thomas to cover up the murder of Martha

[01:06:39] there's loads of other versions of this story

[01:06:41] that's the general story there's somewhere

[01:06:43] he's a hired killer like in Gotham

[01:06:45] who's hired to kill the Wayne specifically

[01:06:47] so he's experienced street thug

[01:06:49] but the majority of them is

[01:06:51] it all goes wrong because Thomas

[01:06:53] tries to talk him out of stealing

[01:06:55] from them and that's why it goes wrong

[01:06:57] so I can actually see this version of

[01:06:59] Thomas and Martha falling into that situation

[01:07:01] but excellent great to hear that you're following along

[01:07:03] with us Victor I know

[01:07:05] you're going to be following along with us for Falcon the Witcher

[01:07:07] Soldier over on our TV podcast

[01:07:09] industry coverage of that show as well

[01:07:11] so great to hear from you. Yeah thanks again Victor

[01:07:13] over on our Facebook

[01:07:15] group at facebook.com

[01:07:17] forward slash groups forward slash tv

[01:07:19] podcast industries and GR

[01:07:21] who says well that was

[01:07:23] interesting didn't see any

[01:07:25] of that coming what is Gully

[01:07:27] supposed to be and

[01:07:29] a Wayne girl I sure hope

[01:07:31] there is a season three so

[01:07:33] that these mysteries are

[01:07:35] explained thanks for another

[01:07:37] great podcast on this season

[01:07:39] guys thanks Eddie yeah thanks

[01:07:41] so much Angie yeah absolutely

[01:07:43] interesting indeed

[01:07:45] and I think Gully

[01:07:47] is just a weaponized version

[01:07:49] of Storm Cloud in human form

[01:07:51] basically but I mean

[01:07:53] he's a comic book editor now basically yeah

[01:07:55] yeah but it's great

[01:07:57] to have you know

[01:07:59] possible connections with

[01:08:01] the human bomb as

[01:08:03] was given by Patrick

[01:08:05] you know and I think

[01:08:07] that's a nice little tie in

[01:08:09] it certainly adds a more comic

[01:08:11] element to the season so far

[01:08:13] yeah and to the

[01:08:15] whole series in general I think

[01:08:17] and yeah

[01:08:19] season three would

[01:08:21] be great for

[01:08:23] some of these mysteries

[01:08:25] maybe to see a bit more creep

[01:08:27] with super powered individuals

[01:08:29] coming into maybe

[01:08:31] the non Gotham verse

[01:08:33] and seeing that it's maybe a global

[01:08:35] phenomenon and stuff so

[01:08:37] yeah interesting now showrunners

[01:08:39] and writers of shows don't always get

[01:08:41] what they want but initially Brutah

[01:08:43] Heller and Danny Cannon who created this series

[01:08:45] after Gotham did say they always

[01:08:47] approach these types of shows

[01:08:49] hoping to get five seasons that's

[01:08:51] their kind of arc that they hope to get

[01:08:53] as five seasons so when they make these

[01:08:55] kind of big moments and big

[01:08:57] declarations of what's happening it is

[01:08:59] aiming to get to a point where in the

[01:09:01] future as I think Bruno described

[01:09:03] with Brutah Heller described it in the

[01:09:05] future there will be a world that will need a Batman

[01:09:07] will need superheroes to take care

[01:09:09] of him the ways the way he's seeing it is

[01:09:11] we're back in the 60s here we are

[01:09:13] at the start of that world so

[01:09:15] so things will start to creep up over time

[01:09:17] where you will need a world that will need

[01:09:19] all the superheroes so that's their approach

[01:09:21] to getting the best of us so if we don't get a season

[01:09:23] three I'm reminded of

[01:09:25] I think was it Star Trek the next generation

[01:09:27] that had the moment where they turned

[01:09:29] Captain Picard into a Borg and ended

[01:09:31] the season there not even knowing if they had

[01:09:33] a following season so they ended up with this

[01:09:35] really dark moment that corner

[01:09:37] that they couldn't write themselves out of effectively

[01:09:39] on purpose so that they

[01:09:41] would be hired on for a next season to

[01:09:43] explain what would happen so I wonder if

[01:09:45] Bruno Heller has used that trick here how

[01:09:47] does he write out write himself out of this corner

[01:09:49] and put himself in at the end of season two

[01:09:51] yeah good stuff thanks Angie

[01:09:53] and finally Shelby

[01:09:55] Dockery echoes the

[01:09:57] thoughts on Facebook of a lot of people

[01:09:59] watching Pennyworth

[01:10:01] she says I can't wait

[01:10:03] to watch and hopefully get a season

[01:10:05] three renewal too

[01:10:07] yeah I think a

[01:10:09] season three would be really

[01:10:11] nice for this show given

[01:10:13] I think the

[01:10:15] the ending

[01:10:17] of the

[01:10:19] Wayne girl as Angie

[01:10:21] says and also I think

[01:10:23] with Gully and superheroes

[01:10:25] being

[01:10:27] introduced for the first time into the show

[01:10:29] I think it will be really really

[01:10:31] take it in a different way

[01:10:33] be really interesting yep absolutely

[01:10:35] absolutely let's hope we hear

[01:10:37] some more from Bruno Heller over the next couple of months

[01:10:39] if they do start filming again traditionally

[01:10:41] they start filming sometime towards the

[01:10:43] summer time so we've got a few months to wait

[01:10:45] before any kind of confirmation will be coming out

[01:10:47] about a season three but

[01:10:49] I'm excited to see what they do in the future

[01:10:51] even if they take it up and do comic books

[01:10:53] from the scripts that Bruno Heller's written

[01:10:55] I'd be happy to read them yeah absolutely

[01:10:57] it's great having fresh

[01:10:59] new approaches

[01:11:01] to a world

[01:11:03] that we know exactly

[01:11:05] once again fellow Gothamites and fellow

[01:11:07] Governors thanks so much for joining us for another

[01:11:09] season of Bruno Heller's

[01:11:11] Hellerverse yeah hashtag

[01:11:13] restore the Hellerverse

[01:11:15] make sure you subscribe to the podcast over on TV

[01:11:17] podcast industries you can find all of our podcasts

[01:11:19] over there as we mentioned we've been covering

[01:11:21] Falk and the Winter Soldier and also Invincible

[01:11:23] on a weekly basis we'd love if you joined us

[01:11:25] for those podcasts we will return

[01:11:27] if there is a Penneworth season 3 on the

[01:11:29] Pennyworth feed and we hope you return

[01:11:31] to join us for any of one of our upcoming

[01:11:33] podcasts yeah

[01:11:35] thank you so much fellow Governors

[01:11:37] and fellow Gothamites

[01:11:39] for joining us on this final

[01:11:41] episode chit chat

[01:11:43] on season 2 of

[01:11:45] Pennyworth it has been

[01:11:47] great speaking to you as always

[01:11:49] and can't wait to speak to you again

[01:11:51] soon bye

[01:11:53] Sláin Givá

[01:11:55] bye