Spider-Noir Finale Review

[00:00:00] This is the Defenders, podcast on TV Podcast Industries, with our spoiler-filled discussion of the Spider-Noir Finale, Episode 8, Man Behind the Mask. Tell us, do you think the spider would have any interest in working for me? I wouldn't hold it against him if he backed the wrong horse. I haven't the faintest idea. The spider tends to do what the spider wants to do. He's actually extremely annoying. What the hell is going on?

[00:00:28] I'm wearing myself some travelling money. I'd invite you to join me, but we know how that goes. And I could have told Sobermane that you're the spider. And I could have told him you're his rat. I still can. Guess we've cut each other by the throats then. Rare.

[00:01:08] Welcome back, fellow Defenders, to our finale podcast on the Defenders Podcast, where we are discussing everything to do with Spider-Noir, Episode 8, Man Behind the Mask. I am one of your hosts, John. I am your other host, Derek. Welcome back, Spider-Friends. Yes, indeed. We are ripping off the mask, revealing the spider, but not before it's already been done in Episode 8. Well, exactly, yes. Yes. We know who it is.

[00:01:38] Spoilers ahead! I think most people have known who it is. I think so. I agree. But let's get into our discussion about the final episode of Spider-Noir, Episode 8. We'd love if you subscribed to the podcast on tvpodcastindustries.com. You can get access to our main podcast feed, where we have over 1,000 episodes of podcasts all about great TV shows, including Spider-Noir, of course, every episode.

[00:02:03] You can get in contact with us on any of the shows that we cover by emailing us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com, popping over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash tvpodcastindustries, or joining us on our Discord. The details are in our show notes right here for this very episode. Absolutely. So, Derek, what are some of the episode details? Well, the showrunner of the show, of course, is Orin Uziel, who also wrote this episode, of course, as the final episode of the season.

[00:02:30] Executive producers of the show are Harry Bradbeer, Orin Uziel, Steve Lightfoot, Phil Lord, and Chris Miller, and Amy Pascal with Adita Sood, and Dan Shear. This episode was once again directed by Greg Yutanis, who directed the last episode as well, Episode 7 of Spider-Noir. Excellent stuff. The good old rule of thumb that we have. It's always good to see the showrunner write one of the start or end episodes, for sure. Or both. Yes, indeed.

[00:02:57] I've heard recently that that has changed in the writer's room after the most recent writer's strike, that effectively there's a writer's room and each writer is allocated an episode that they get the full writing credit for, but all of them write all episodes because they're in a writer's room and they're all breaking all the story down, which makes a lot of sense, but you can't put every writer on every episode. So it makes more sense that they would just do, like Orin Uziel would just do one or the other then, like the start or the end.

[00:03:23] That he would get the credit for the final episode because he's the lead in the writer's room and get the credit for the final and the first episode, if that's the case, yeah. So that makes a lot of sense, makes a lot of sense. But John, do you want to tell us what he did give us with the finale of Spider-Noir, Episode 8? Sure. After learning that Ben Reilly has an antidote for the superpowers, Cat Hardy arranges a meeting with his secretary, Janet. Cat asks Janet to get the antidote to her so she can cure Flint Marco and Dirk Layden.

[00:03:52] But they were watching and they follow Janet to Robbie Robertson's place and they capture the recovering Ben Reilly. Silvermane forces Ben to contact the spider, with Robbie posing as him, and orders the antidote brought over to the alcove bar. After Dirk Layden recognises Ben from the war, Silvermane realises Ben is the spider and threatens Cat to make him confess. To protect Ben, Cat reveals she is the one who betrayed Silvermane.

[00:04:18] Before Silvermane can kill her, Robbie arrives dressed as the spider. Thinking he is the spider, Megawatt injects Robbie with the cure and electrocutes him, then tries to persuade Flint Marco to help overthrow Silvermane. Ben regains use of his webbing just in time and fights the two powerful fighters, while Cat tracks down and kills Silvermane. Sandman turns on Layden after he attacks Cat.

[00:04:45] The spider gets the better of Megawatt and kills him by throwing him into an oncoming train. Ben gives the last antidote dose to Flint Marco, sacrificing his only chance to become human again so Cat and Flint can be together. In the aftermath of Silvermane's death, Mayor Morris is re-elected. Robbie leaves the Daily Bugle to lead the Harlem Herald,

[00:05:09] and Ben and Janet renovate their joint office, now called Riley and Ruiz Investigations. Aw, precursor to alias investigations. I know, exactly. Really good. Yeah, I like that. Absolutely. I like that little touch. It's great. It's great. And seeing it shadowed on the floor. Yeah. Right at the end. Superb. Really good sign. Really good sign. Let's get into our web shots, John. Indeed. Webshot number one.

[00:05:38] The kidnapping of Benjamin Riley. Yeah, the episode itself starts out with Silvermane's men, Megawatt and Sandman, following Cat as she goes for a meet with Janet. They meet in the same location that Cat meets all the people in her life, in the rundown theater with the big hole in the roof. But we have the conversation outside with Megawatt and Sandman, where Megawatt's chatting about all the saps of the world

[00:06:06] and how much better than them he is now that he is superpowered. I just really like that Sandman is like, do you ever shut the hell up? You know, the crash is coming, and you just can't feel it. You will be dead soon, basically. So in that moment, I was right on Flint's side, because I can only imagine having that co-worker who just won't shut up beside you, especially someone as blustery and as vacuous as Megawatt.

[00:06:33] Yeah, but I mean, it's dangerous talk, isn't it, really? Because he's got an ego. It's almost as well like he's kind of letting Flint into his personal philosophy or outlook on life, you know, look at these saps, lost, blind, and they don't even know it. I'm only getting stronger, even though, as Flint knows, every time he uses his power, he's closer to death.

[00:07:02] And this carries on a little bit through the whole episode with Dirk having these visions of becoming the big boss man, you know, where again, whilst they're in the car, he says, you know, why are we running around after this old man? You know, what happens when you stop being loyal? Because Flint is, it is loyalty that has aligned him with Silvermane. Yeah.

[00:07:29] And he distinguishes that as the difference between him and Megawatt. Absolutely. So it's kind of a nice little moment here, I think, having these two then sort of come together to kidnap Ben. Yeah. And it also comes back to the old saying, you know, the brains and the brawn, right? Silvermane is the brains, these guys are the brawn. And don't step over to the other side of there.

[00:07:58] You wouldn't expect Silvermane to step over on the brawn side. Megawatt cannot step over into the brains side. He's not the brainy one. He may work out a few things in this episode, but he's still just a brawn, right? Yeah, exactly. And I think as well, it's, you know, as you say, we have Kat and Janet meeting up. I love that Janet slaps Kat once for Ben and once for herself.

[00:08:22] And, you know, after she's learned that she didn't really love him, you know, yes, she says, you did it for love, but who's love? Flint or Ben? She goes, Ben is a good man. Not necessarily, and not now we know the person who she loved. It is Flint. So I do like this little moment between Kat and Janet as well,

[00:08:49] two really strong women that ends up with them just, you know, stating their place really and what they think of one another. So, yeah, this is all really good. But Ben's place is also, and Janet specifically has been watched here. And so when she goes over to Robbie's place, she's followed by Flint and Durka in the back. You have Perry and Pudge up front.

[00:09:18] And you just have the moment where they come in and a lot of scrambling. Robbie's trying to hide the antidotes. Then, you know, a lot of eyes and all that to sort of formulate the plan. I'm going to put this in your coat. Exactly. But he's whisked away from the coat by Dirk too soon. He's like, you don't need a coat. We'll keep it toasted. Yeah, exactly. So I like all this. Yeah.

[00:09:46] But we do have this first recognition by Dirk that he might know Ben Reilly, to which point Ben Reilly says, well, maybe you slept with the wrong man's wife. And he's like, why were you here? I took photos of the right woman's husband. Yes, exactly. I love the interaction between the two of them. But yeah, that plays out quite well later on. Our Megawash realizes who Ben is. That's really good.

[00:10:15] But yeah, that kind of sets up the episode. We now have Ben on his way to Silvermane after last episode, where we had Mayor Morris and Silvermane wanting to get access to Ben. Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be much from Mayor Morris in this episode. Given that final moment in the last episode, I was expecting all of the police to be standing outside Robbie's apartment and Ben's apartment, you know, connections between them all.

[00:10:42] The only thing that does happen is Janet gets a call at the office saying Mayor Morris is sending out all the troops looking for Ben, just warning her because she has that connection in the office. Yes. That's all. And we do see little Frankie as well in the office waiting when Janet's there and he just can't work out the vagueness of English when he's speaking to her because, hey, look, he's a street artist and he makes all of his money by selling info. Yeah. He doesn't need to know the Queen's English to do that,

[00:11:11] even though Janet's trying to correct him. But yeah, it can be very complex English, can't it? Oh, very. Yes. It has all the rules and none of the rules that you would associate with something like French or German. Exactly. Exactly. It is rules-based, but those rules can be broken. Let's put it that way. They're quite bendable, aren't they? Yes. With that, let's get on to our web shot too.

[00:11:41] A Call to the Spider. Yes. So now at the Alcove Bar, we have this really nice little touchback between Silverman and Ben Reilly where Ben Reilly is giving a lot of mouth here and Silverman's, I said your mouth would get you in trouble one day. Is this it? I like the expression on Silverman, just him hearing everything that Ben Reilly is saying. He's like, look at the neck on this one.

[00:12:06] But ultimately, I like how it descends into, and I mean that literally into a negotiation because you have Ben going, well, there's the mare and you looking for the spider. You've both got deep pockets. How much do you want? He just says $500. And he's like, well, it starts with a five, but that's not the amount I was thinking of. And it says $5,000.

[00:12:34] And eventually it comes down to two. But I love the little post-negotiation thing between Silverman and Ben Reilly where Ben says, I'd have settled for one. And Silverman goes, and I'd have given you ten. Because Silverman desperately wants the spider to bring the antidote here to him. And after this, Ben Reilly is kind of, well, can I leave now?

[00:13:02] Because we've negotiated and he's going to come over and he's like, no. Exactly. Deliver the antidote and then you can go. Yeah. You know? I really like it. And Ben just going, I want my $2,000. Or as the French say, my Cecil B. De Me. His French is also terrible. But that's it. That's the trigger for Megawatt to realize who Ben actually is. Yes. He goes, I remember you. It was France. I was from that POW camp.

[00:13:32] So it is Ben talking about the fact that he wants to go back to an island in France. That triggers Megawatt realizing who he is. And then suddenly Finn or Silvermane starts to suspect that maybe this is the spider. Yeah. Yeah. This is really a great little bit of TV for me. You know, you have Silvermane kind of, well, I'm a bit of a detective like yourself.

[00:13:59] And you have, as you say, Silvermane deducing then that the spiders already walked through the door in the form of Ben Reilly. Now, Ben does kind of provide a good enough excuse where Silvermane says, well, I'm convinced, but I'm not certain yet. And, you know, his reasoning becomes, well, you, like me, Ben, you know, you're out for yourself.

[00:14:28] But the spider cares about people. And who in this room and just the way it plays out, you know, you've got me and you've got my heavies. Who in this room would the spider care about? Who would he save? And he asks Cat, you know, give me your gun, the one you think nobody knows about. And he pulls the gun on Cat, which I think kind of brings us nicely into web shot number three. It does.

[00:14:58] This had to be its own point, really, because it's so good. It's such a great change from the old version of storytelling. Our web shot number three is threatening Cat. As you say, Silvermane is questioning, is Ben Reilly selfish or is he the spider? There's only two choices here. That is that is it. Either Ben Reilly doesn't care about anybody other than himself. So it'll be fine with Cat dying or he's the spider and he will reach out and try and save Cat.

[00:15:27] Either way, Silvermane doesn't care. It'll prove the point to Silvermane what he what he wants to prove and what he suspects is that Ben Reilly is the spider. What I love about this is how it flips. I love that it's Cat revealing she's the rat. She's the one that turned on Silvermane. She's been in love with Flint. She wanted Silvermane dead with all of her heart for what he did to her previous fiance and for what he was going to do to Flint or what he could do to Flint.

[00:15:56] She hired someone to kill Silvermane. And then she says the killer line basically saying now that you've got all that information, now you'll kill me because you hate me, not because you're trying to prove something about Ben. I love that because she's just changed herself from a character that is being effectively fridge like so many female characters and girlfriend characters and boyfriend characters are in TV shows nowadays and movies nowadays. She's turned herself into the most active character in the show alongside Ben Reilly.

[00:16:26] Her name could be above the credits of Spider Noir for this moment. She's the noir in Spider Noir. Right. So she is the character that's going. I did all this. I was the mastermind behind all of this. The whole kickoff of the season was Silvermane trying to find out who it was that burned down his house trying to kill him. Right. So that's all here in this moment with Kat and her telling him everything that's happened. Very luckily, we have the arrival of Robbie dressed as the spider, which confuses everybody.

[00:16:56] Suddenly, Ben Reilly isn't the suspect to be the spider. And we have Robbie pretending to be Nicolas Cage. He tried it on the phone as well, which I thought was quite funny. His version of Nicolas Cage's speech pattern, at least, of the phone. And here in the club, dressed as the spider, he's now trying to affect the mannerisms of Ben Reilly as well. Well, that's it.

[00:17:22] I think this whole section is just wonderfully done because it goes from real high tension. Yeah. And, you know, Flint's there. I mean, that's the whole point. I mean, you have Dirk sort of going on as though he is opening the next act at a theatre. You know, get a front seat row. You know, things got a new plot twist or whatever. You know, he's saying all this kind of stuff.

[00:17:52] You have Silverman kind of realizing you're my Judas about to pull the trigger on Cass. And then you have Robbie arriving, giving this really interesting impression. But also one that Ben is then trying to manipulate. He's like, well, don't over-egg yourself here. Don't over-egg the pudding. Don't say too much without trying to say that because you're going to make it.

[00:18:21] I have to deal with what you're saying here. Exactly. So maybe you want to reconsider what you're actually saying here and that you might want to think about working for Silverman, who's put that on the table. Robbie's like, well, I could just take over all of it. And he's like, no, you can't because you're Robbie Robertson in an outfit. Just because you have the spider outfit on, you are the spider. And also, just to note, I don't have my webbing back yet.

[00:18:49] You know, you see him kind of shaking his wrists over and over again trying to get the webbing working in front of Robbie. So he's saying, I can't save you either. So if you get yourself into deep trouble here, both of us are not powered right now. Indeed. We also have Janet being captured as well by Pudge and Perry. So this is all suddenly become all the principal characters are all in this one room. You've got to have that.

[00:19:15] And you have the vials taken by Dirk, who then immediately uses it on Robbie and electrocutes him saying, they do work. It is the antidote, not knowing it's not the real Spider-Man. It's quite funny though, isn't it? Because basically it all works the way it's intended to, because he thinks that the antidote works because Robbie doesn't have superpowers when he injects him. Right.

[00:19:44] But if he had injected Ben with that, he would have taken away his spider powers. But it still would have been the same thing. It still works because it works. We just use it on someone that didn't actually have any superpowers. Exactly. And this immediately precipitates Dirk going off piste, really, at least for Silverman. Why should we give you this antidote? Silverman's going to hand it over. And he's like, Flint is kind of a bit wary here, but Dirk says, he's your puppet master, Flint.

[00:20:14] He's an old man trying to stay relevant. And, you know, again, it looks like it's going to kick off in that direction until Ben gets his thwipping back in action. Yes, he does. And takes the little roll of vials back off Dirk Layden. You know?

[00:20:39] Yeah, I love that little moment where Robbie's knocked over the back of the bar after they've revealed his face. And you just hear Robbie going, I now know why you don't like this job. Really good. Finally realizing why. Well, there's another moment as well when Ben, I think, whilst the fights kind of started and he's like, are you OK? And he's like, he just raises his thumb really slowly. Still slightly dazed from the electrocution, which I thought was really good. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:21:09] And this section kind of ends with Megawatt and Sandman throwing the spider out the window after they've had their initial fight inside the bar. Now they take it to the street. I think we should throw ourselves into web shot number four. Mm-hmm. The real spider is revealed here. But ultimately now it's a fight for survival, as you say.

[00:21:39] Dirk and Flint basically team up against Ben Reilly here after they've thrown him out into the streets. You've got a crowd developing. Some really good moments in this. Like, I do think Dirk Laiden here is really, really good. He's one of those characters which they're excellent because he's really annoying, but that's the whole point of him.

[00:22:04] He is this arrogant electrical megawatt. Yeah. You know? I like the... Groundstanding. Yeah. A-hill. I love the fact that you have, like, the use of cars where Ben Reilly effectively does a car crash of two cars onto the Sandman, which shows him go immediately deform into a pile of sand. Yes. And then you see him reforming in that classic Sandman look.

[00:22:34] And you have Dirk saying, it is me, Megawatt, and the Sandman. I think it's the first time we get that reference directly. Yeah. In the show from Megawatt. Megawatt. Yes, because Dirk says he doesn't... I don't think he likes his new nickname at all as they start to turn on each other. Yes. Then, yeah. There's another great use of a car here when Ben uses it effectively to get megawatt off his back. It kind of...

[00:23:02] It's just the energy he flips... As he flings this car away, it propels them up into a neon sign, him and Megawatt, in order to get megawatt off his back. Really good. I like the fact that you have the start of Ben's mask starting to rip apart and those cracks to show. But, you know, ultimately Sandman and Megawatt are a lot of super-powered metahumans here.

[00:23:31] And they do incapacitate Ben the spider, you know? And certainly Megawatt wants to follow up here. I like this from Flint where he says, you know, you've proved your point. He doesn't think Megawatt should kill the spider. But Megawatt's ego, like, from the start... Well, it's my turn on Broadway. I'm the star attraction. Yes.

[00:23:53] And so here we see the start of this rapidly formed alliance of the Sandman and Megawatt rapidly crumble just like Flint Marco when he's been hit by two cars, ultimately. Exactly. Yeah. And then, meanwhile, we have Kat and Silvermane. Silvermane escaped from the big battle that was going on inside the club. And Kat's the one that chases him down.

[00:24:20] A really interesting way of doing this, this hall of mirrors that are surrounding Silvermane while Kat is shooting the bullets. I would definitely say, and I do like the scene, no major criticism of it, but I do think this is definitely much more style over substance as they're having the conversation. And she's shooting all the glass around him until she eventually gets the bullet that kills him.

[00:24:45] Just because of that one pan back where it's basically the whole floor is just covered in glass and Silvermane's about two and a half inches away from Kat. I was like, well, she would have been able to guess where he was at some point during that shooting before she smashed all of the glass around him. Yes, no, absolutely. I think you're right. I think the mirror scene is absolutely beautifully done. I love it.

[00:25:07] I love how, you know, the shots from Kat as Silvermane sort of throws little bits of insult towards her. You know, you love being kept. Yeah. As another shot is fired and a mirror breaks to the floor, she's going to have quite a lot of bad luck, I guess. But irrespective of that, yes, I think you're right.

[00:25:33] I think the problem that then happens is that he's immediately stood in front of her. And you get the sense he knows that she's used the right number, that she's used up all her bullets and then is surprised that he hasn't. Now, I think you're right. I think it would have been better if he'd kind of tried to jump her and she stepped to one side or something. And you even have that word of, well, you're out of bullets. And she's like, that's what you think or something.

[00:26:04] Bang. Didn't know it was a seven shoot, not a six. Yeah, exactly. Something like that. A little dirty Harry moment. Like, I really like the way actually Silvermane falls to the ground. It's almost like he bounces and like, how did he do it? Do you know? But it was just like the death was very good. I think you're right. It's just him suddenly popping up right in front of her, like maybe five feet away. Yeah. It felt like a comic book panel. Yeah, it did. I can see it.

[00:26:32] So I'll give it style points rather than substance points. Definitely. And again, really glad that it's cats. That's the one that gets to take out Silvermane. Absolutely. The story started with them. Ben Reilly got engaged and involved in it and it ends with them. Exactly. But immediately as well, Cat then goes down to intervene in the fight because you have Megawatt

[00:26:59] becoming quite dangerous to everyone, in particular to Flint. I love the fact that she goes to shoot Megawatt telling him to stay back up from Flint. It clicks. She has now run out of bullets. And so he electrocutes her with a Palpatine style kind of electricity arc.

[00:27:24] But I think for me as well, from this just seeing Megawatt using his powers to heat the sand to turn Flint's arm to glass, I think it's really good. Geography in action, John? It's like a lightning strike. It's chemistry. It's chemistry. Yeah. Okay. Like, I just think it's really cool. I like the way it's done. I love how Megawatt is sort of just seething with this power. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:53] And ultimately, though, Flint is then saved by Ben Reilly or the spider finding the strength to web him. And even as electricity shoots up the web to Ben, again, you have that almost the Darth Vader of the electricity going across his face as he flings him into the path of an oncoming train or one of the raised trains. Yeah.

[00:28:23] Yeah, yeah. In New York. I love that. So I presume he's dead. If it's electric, he may have actually gained some power from it. Yeah. He's now in the next stage version of Starlight Express, John. That'd be awesome. He is electric. Yes. No, I absolutely love this. And I don't know why there's something about Spider-Man that always has something to do with trains. Right back to the original Tobey Maguire movie, having the scene on the train, the New Yorkers.

[00:28:51] There's always that moment where it feels like a spider project has to have a train in it. And that's why Venom didn't work. And that's why Morbius didn't work or Craven didn't work because I know trains in them, John. That's what I think. It's all about the trains. It's all about the trains. Everyone loves a good train. Yes, they do. That's what I would say. But that's it. That's the battle all over. All of our bad guys are gone. We have Cat being given the antidote for Flint by Ben, which means that he has to give up on his dream of becoming human.

[00:29:22] And that's the last opportunity, right? There's nobody else that had the files. Nobody else has the ability to cure Ben. So Ben will stay as a spider in order to give Cat the man that she loves. Exactly. Yeah. I think we can get on to our web shot number five. It is the aftermath or the epilogue here. As you say, we do see that Flint is cured and well.

[00:29:48] Maybe his arm is still not right because I'm guessing he lost. He's kind of holding it in. So I'm guessing that the arm that was turned to glass didn't heal. And snapped off. And snapped off. But that's at Silvermane's funeral where it's literally the person that killed him, Cat, along with Flint and Ben Reilly being the only people in attendance there. So the femme fatale is still fataling here.

[00:30:19] I don't know why. It kind of made me smile in a way because it's a big indictment of the belief of Silvermane, of Finn, of Finn Bern. You know, this idea that he got everything he wanted. Cat even asked him, why are you still fighting? You have everything. You have the best of the world. And here he is. It's his funeral. We know it's his actual funeral because the priest is there saying prayers over the grave. This isn't them visiting the grave, right? This is him in his casket.

[00:30:46] And the only people there are his murderer, the person that he wanted to kill, and Ben Reilly. You know? So he ended off having absolutely nothing other than maybe a very expensive coffin. Yes. And his anniversary is facing there to, in essence, make sure that he's seen off. Yeah, no, I love that. I love the fact that, you know, she comes over to Ben, asks Flint if they can have a moment.

[00:31:13] And it's the classic line, in another world, I'd have run away with you. But she didn't. And this is the real world. And Ben doesn't really take that in the way it's intended. He's going to, like, effectively get lost. Yeah, so that's a great way of telling me I'm the backup for the boyfriend that you have. Basically, you say, oh, I'm still your backup. Great. And she's like, go to hell, Ben. I'll be there. I'll keep it warm for you. Yeah, exactly. When you get there. Really good.

[00:31:41] So, yeah, everything else that's going on with everybody else. We find out that Mayor Morris is returned for another year. Landslide. In a landslide victory, yeah. Frankie's going to go to school, apparently. Exactly. Janet's getting a new office. Yeah. More, you know, more than we think. Robbie has a paper to run there with the Harlem Herald. Yeah.

[00:32:06] And Ben kind of just wants to get a hot dog before his next appointment at two o'clock. Yeah. And it's great. Then we see that not only has Janet got a new office, she has become a partner in the business of the private dig. Absolutely. She is the new PI, which makes loads of sense because she did do a hell of a lot of work. But I do like her remodeling her office. The first thing she wants is just maybe a desk that doesn't wobble. Can we fix that, please?

[00:32:36] Well, and Frankie can't do his geometry on a wobbly desk. His geometricals, John. Yeah, his geometricals. Yes, agreed. Great little ending just to have the wrap up of everybody. I think it still leaves them in a place where we could come back to them for a second season with a brand new story. You know, it feels like, you know, you now have a bit of a Poirot set up here. You have Riley and Ruiz PIs. What's the next case that's going to walk through their door and be reported on by Robbie Robertson? Yeah, exactly.

[00:33:06] No, really, really good ending. Wrapped up very, very nicely, I think. Absolutely. Derek, any notes from this episode? I think we wrapped it up in a nice, neat little package there. Nothing from me. Excellent. How about your subject? The only thing for me is just there is that moment where Silvermane talks about him leaving Ireland to come to America.

[00:33:29] And he talks about, again, it's another little bit of his own wisdom being imparted towards Kat in a way, like we saw at the start of the episode seven, where he says, you know, the difference between me and other people was restlessness. I couldn't get comfortable. You know, that was the difference between me and others that came out of that time, I think is the way he describes it.

[00:33:57] You know, or the courage to keep going after things, because you should never accept what you're given, never be satisfied. And in a sense, then, that is what happens with Kat killing Silvermane. Absolutely. I'm not going to be controlled by you anymore. Yeah. You know, I'm not going to accept what you are giving me. Exactly.

[00:34:23] So it's a nice little kind of element here that we get at the start that sort of reverberates in the confrontation between these two and ultimately the death of Silvermane at the hands of Kat. Yeah. It's interesting. It's like he sealed his own fate there when he said to her, nobody will ever give you what you want. They'll only give you what they want to give you for their reasons. Yes. So it's like she has finally got that through her head at the end of the episode. Hang on a second. He never gave me anything.

[00:34:53] He just waltzed in, took the club from me. I work for him. And now he's telling me constantly, you're getting older, you're getting to be a worse singer, and you're interfering in my business. He's just going to replace me. So that's the end of him. Absolutely. Yeah. Great stuff. Yeah. Derek, do you defend this episode of Spider Noir? Episode eight, The Man in the Mask. I absolutely defend this episode and I really defend the series. This was a real standout after something.

[00:35:21] And I remember talking to Chris and yourself when this was announced going, oh, I cannot imagine how bad this is going to be. You know, if they've relegated to TV and they're dropping it all in a day and they're pretending that you have to watch it in black and white and color so they can double the ratings for the show, this must be absolutely terrible. And then I watched the first episode and went, this is so much fun. And it stayed that way throughout the series. The touches that they've made towards the noir stories,

[00:35:47] the elements of the Spider-Verse that they brought into the show with all the named characters from Spider-Man comics and the slightly different versions. All great. The acting's been fantastic throughout. Very difficult to go against Nicolas Cage on a good day. But Brendan Gleeson seems to have been enjoying every single moment on screen. And to get to the end of the series and have Legion Lease, Kat Hardy be as central a character to the story as Ben Reilly.

[00:36:14] You know, her taking out the big bad that is Silvermane. After telling everybody that she is the rat that started the whole thing, I thought was a great way to end the series. Absolutely. It works out really well. It feels like Poirot mysteries or maybe the Benoit Blanc mysteries that are really popular at the moment. You can now go on to a second season with some of the major characters. We probably won't see Kat back. We may not see Flint Marko back. But we can have another cast of characters coming into the office and kicking off a brand new adventure,

[00:36:43] which is exactly what I wanted from the series. Way more than I expected, but exactly what I wanted when I saw the first episode. How about yourself, John? Do you defend the final episode of Spider-Noir? I really do. I think for the same reasons you've just mentioned, I'd give it five glassy-eyed flints out of five. Very good. We've referenced the film noir, the detective noir tropes and approaches here, and they work really, really well because, yes, they are there,

[00:37:11] but as well there's just been some really beautiful sort of through lines of character development, dialogue, the direction, just layering it in and with some really complex characters. And I think it's, you know, in the end, what's happened is it's been underpinned by not just sort of great acting from Nicolas Cage, but also Lee Jun Lee as well as Lamarne Morris as Robbie Robertson.

[00:37:41] Yeah, he was great too, wasn't he? Really good, really coming together, as well as then having Brendan Gleeson as Silvermane, such a great antagonist here. I think Jack Houston as Flint Markov, they've all worked really well. Indeed, like with Dirk Layden, Andrew Lewis Caldwell, like he just absolutely just, just some of his pronunciation was so off the charts crazy. And he was just doing that voice that was really down the back of his throat

[00:38:09] that made you go, God, he must need a lozenge after every scene that he records. Exactly. And it plays out in a really good scene in the alcove, followed by the big fight in the street, the personal fight between Silvermane and Cat Hardy with the mirrors, which I still absolutely love, despite, yes, it being a little bit of a shock that it was like they were almost touching noses at one point.

[00:38:37] I think it was all just really nicely conceived and this to me was cherry on top, really. So for me, I give this five glassy-eyed flints out of five. Great stuff, great stuff. Let's find out what our fellow defenders think over on our feedback section, John. Indeed. First up, an email from Coffee and Vodka who says, Greasing's fellow played and paid defenders.

[00:39:02] Seems Ben was drinking enough to have died from alcohol poisoning three times over this season. Turned out I'd guessed all the major ending points correctly, but still found the journey entertaining. Cat was the living adage of, if you want a job done right, do it yourself, by taking Silvermane out with her pea shooter. While should we get another season, I think we haven't seen the last of Megawatt. You could see where most of the effect budget went,

[00:39:30] even if we didn't get any classic Sandman shape-shifting or weapon forms. We at least got to see him reform after being powdered. No notes of note for either episode or season. It was a romp from beginning to end. A good time series set in the Depression. Who'd have thunk it? Five badly jabbed pseudo-spiders, passed on bygones, and beachfront battles out of five. Peace and take care. Coffee and vodka.

[00:40:00] Fantastic coffee and vodka. Glad you enjoyed it as much as we did. It's been such fun watching along with this show, hasn't it? Absolutely. You know, I think it's, what's the phrase? It's not about the ending. It's about the journey. And I think that's what this has provided. The journey is really good. And I think despite a lot of, you know, things that can be predicted or guessed because they're leaning heavily in this style

[00:40:28] and era of filmmaking, it's also one in which, you know, there is that tune-up to it and how things are being brought to the show. So I really totally agree with you. Coffee and vodka. Yeah, and I know exactly what you mean about you can see where the effects budget went. You know, that moment when Flint and Megawatt

[00:40:57] kicked the spider out of the window into the street. I'm going, oh, okay, well, they reserved enough budget for this massive fight on the street. They had to get rid of Lonnie because you couldn't have four super parrot people against each other. So you just have the three of them against each other smashing everything in the streets. I thought it was really good fun and felt like a great way to end the season by putting all the budget into the last battle. Look, they used to get criticized for doing it all the time. I feel like we haven't had a big battle between multiple supervillains for a while.

[00:41:26] So I thought it was really cool to end it this way. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I think you're right. Possibly Megawatt is still there. Yeah, maybe. Who knows? He's coming back. Nobody just yet. That's true. But equally, potentially the antidote, whilst it works for now, it might be something that wears off. Maybe. So we'll see. It'd be really interesting. I really hope we get to see something of a season two. Yeah. Somehow, I guess.

[00:41:55] But shall we get on to our Discord feedback? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Coffee and Vodka. Yeah, thanks, Coffee and Vodka. First up, Philippi Gurgle says, really enjoyed the show. It was great to see Nick Cage going full unhinged again, but for good, especially in the episode where he is hallucinating. I watched it once in black and white, but I'm seriously considering giving the full-color version a chance too. It's such a great concept to build a series out of the amazing, no pun intended, Spider-Verse. Am I crazy for wanting more spinoffs with the other Spider-Variants?

[00:42:24] Each done a completely different style. It's not perfect, but I'd still give it a five out of five. It's one of the series or movies that caught and actually kept my attention the most so far in 2026. Ooh, really interesting, Philippi. Thanks for that. Yeah, thanks so much, Philippi. I think certainly the full-color version, you should give that a chance. Definitely, yeah. You know, it's really vibrant. It's really, actually, the contrast is shocking to begin with because it's just such rich colors.

[00:42:53] I mean, I think in episode seven, I mentioned to Derek, I said, like, did you see the wall colors in Robbie Robertson's apartment? Just so, so good. Yeah. And I think, you know, it is a great concept to build maybe another series out of as well. Yeah, we could see the animated version of Penny Parker from the future with her digital spider. Remember that from the original Spider-Verse? We could have Peter Porker

[00:43:23] in much more of a Porky Pig kind of cartoon way. That'd be kind of fun, wouldn't it? Yeah, exactly. Loads of opportunities. A Christmas special, you know? Maybe, yeah. Loads of opportunities, but we still do have the third Spider-Verse movie to come from Lord and Miller in the future. So I'm really glad for what we got here. I'd love to see another season of this now after watching these eight episodes. So maybe another spin-off might work, but I do still err on the side of caution with the Spider-Verse on Sony's side.

[00:43:52] It seems like only things with actual Spider-Men in them are good. And the other stuff, not so much. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Philippe. Thanks, Philippe. Yeah. Joe Herb says, Fun show. I have quibbles with some of the details, like why was Flint attacking Ben in the bar when Ben was saving Cat? And Flint wanted the cure that Ben was trying to jab them with. Brendan Gleeson was great as the villain. The actors helped elevate the somewhat basic story.

[00:44:21] Robbie was fun playing the spider. Did he start his own newspaper? They blew past that. Also from episode seven, Joe Herb said, The montage of scenes when Ben reveals he's the spider to Janet was also great. Was that? Yeah. Thanks so much, Joe Herb. I think it's that he is running a newspaper that already exists in the Harlem Herald, potentially. But you're right. I don't know whether he started it up on his own

[00:44:50] or whether he has come in to run the Harlem Herald. Yeah. I think for me, it's just I like that he's taken on Lonnie's advice. Exactly. I think that's the important thing for me. But agreed. I think, you know, there are some certainly things that are all skimmed over a little bit, but you can pick them out as they go. But I agree.

[00:45:18] Robbie was also fun playing the spider, certainly with Ben trying to tell him what not to say and what to say to save his own skin. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Really good. Yeah. Again, you know, we talked about the fact that the racism inherent in what was going on in the 30s was there in the background of the show and they didn't really dwell on it. They didn't really talk about it. But really, the idea was that Robbie was fighting for his way back into a white run newspaper with white people who were staring at him all the time like you shouldn't be there.

[00:45:47] And Lonnie telling him, you don't need to do that anymore. There are places that you can go where your work will be valued for what it is. Great writing in a city that needs great writers. So the fact that he took his advice and went to the Harlem Herald and is now running it as a great choice. I think that's a great way of ending it. It's a shame that it's so much in the background that that's what he's done here. He's been chasing a dream that he didn't really want. And until he spoke to someone who has fought for his whole life like Lonnie,

[00:46:16] he doesn't get the inspiration to go out on his own and the way he should have. So I really like that story when you look at it and you're able to see it. As for what's happening with Flint Marco, yet we kind of blew past that bit ourselves. Cat made that offer to Janet to say, give me the antidote and I'll inject Flint and cure him. And you're kind of going, that's all the objective really was for Ben, wasn't it? To cure them and then cure himself.

[00:46:45] So she probably would have been able to cure Flint. And he wanted to be cured. Yeah. And he just saw his boss threatening the person who he loved. I mean, that was the drama of it as Megawatt was announcing to the room, you know, as the actor. So I thought it is a little odd that that played out. They didn't think that Robbie was still the spider

[00:47:14] after Ben went behind the bar and put on the eight foot again. Did they? I don't think so. Okay. Maybe they did. Maybe that was it. Maybe Flint didn't know. No, it can't be that. I'm trying to give them something. But no, it feels like, as I said before, all I can say is maybe when you have the powers, you go full on mad at times. You start to go a little over the edge and just fight anybody that's in front of you. So maybe it was that. But thanks so much for your feedback, Joe. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Joe.

[00:47:44] Dr. Bob Phillips has his thoughts on the finale. He said, Landed is perfectly. Loved the Megawatt, sorry, Megawatt, unrepentant villain ending, being crushed by public transport for a diva, seems very apt. Sparkled with the shattering of the Hall of Mirrors, again, leaning into the back catalogue of thrilling tales after Kat had come clean to say both her men thought the fake spider worked very well, though was expecting a so that's how he got all the stories line from someone. And I expected the show

[00:48:14] to wrap with the hat replacement in the mausoleum, perhaps at the rest of the walk and mayoral parade being a post credit that got re-edited into the main show. Finally, given how key the deliciousness of hot dogs have been to both this show and Daredevil, I think I need to take a trip to New York post-regime change and find out if this is fiction or fact. Indeed, yes, a nice tasty hot dog in New York just before New York Comic Con maybe. That would be fab, that would be fab.

[00:48:44] And we can say, Dr. Bob, because we have had New York hot dogs when we have been over in New York, they are lovely. They're really nice. Just don't think about what's in them. That's all you need to do. Don't think about what's in them. Yeah, and I know this isn't necessarily the right thing to say, but I prefer the hot dogs in Vancouver. No, right? Interesting. So maybe it was filmed in Vancouver. Maybe it was filmed in Vancouver and everybody just wants to have some hot dogs. It wasn't. We know Daredevil was filmed in New York.

[00:49:14] But it is interesting that there's that connection between the two shows, isn't it? That's true. Yeah, absolutely. They're very popular in New York. Yeah, I do like a good hot dog and certainly when watching Super Bowl and tons of mustard, tons of ketchup. Not much else. Some fried onions? No. No. Interesting. Just a big sausage in a bun. There you go. Absolutely. Great stuff. Thanks, Dr. Bob. Absolutely. Thanks, Dr. Bob. And thanks to all of you who've been sending your feedback throughout the season.

[00:49:44] It's been great to hear all of your thoughts. You can keep contacting us, email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or please join us over on our Discord group, the details of which are in the show notes for this episode or over in our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries. That's the end of the coverage for Spider Noir, but we do have loads more to cover this year. Yes, indeed. We'll be back next time with Spider-Man Brave New World when we return from our jollies in late July,

[00:50:14] early August. We'd love to get your feedback on the movie when you get to watch it. Yeah, I'm really excited to see Spider-Man Brave New World. Me too. Some of the trailers looking really cool. Really excited to see some of the characters that are going to be in that one. Yeah, it's fun. Looking really, really interesting. But I'm also quite excited about the fact that we get a little bit of a holiday after this show. We're on a little bit of a break for a couple of weeks and we will be back

[00:50:45] indeed. But thank you so much fellow defenders for joining us for our eight episode coverage of the Spider Noir. Let's hope it returns for season two. Fingers crossed, legs crossed, toes crossed, rubbing our rabbit's feet at the same time. All eight legs crossed. Yes, indeed. But until next time, keep watching, keep listening, and of course,

[00:51:14] keep defending. Bye. Bye.

[00:51:47] Yeah, I just think, you know, we say it's going into the Black Noir tropes and it is and we, you know, you know, we've referenced, you know, we've referenced the Black Noir. That's why I was correct. I just want to be five-year-old. So you can have the Black Noir to speak because I don't know But I don't know the Black Noir pas Joe can see it. So see it. So