Spider-Noir Episode 6 Review

[00:00:00] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're here with our spoiler-filled discussion about Spider-Noir Episode 6 Nightmare on a Gurney. I mean don't you want to see your comrades cured? Would you want to be cured? What is that supposed to mean? It means I know who and what you really are. I followed you into that ward that day when you and your unit saved us.

[00:00:28] That day when that thing bit you. If you hadn't changed your name, I would have come knocking at your door years ago. Dementia hit early, huh? Don't do that. I can excuse a lot, but I deserve better than that. You're delivering me a death sentence. At least have the decency to be honest.

[00:01:15] Welcome back fellow Defenders to this episode of the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries We are here with your spoiler-filled nightmare discussion about The Nightmare on a Gurney Episode 6 of Spider-Noir. I am one of your arachnid loving hosts, John. I am your other host and John, that is an absolute lie. You are not a fan of spiders at all. I'm not against them, but I do scream. You do a lot. Yeah.

[00:01:45] Very often I'm awoken or distracted from other things when John has happened to see a spider out of the corner of his eye because it could possibly, possibly attack him and give him spider powers. Yeah, the hallucinating psychedelic kind of episode there where he has the big tarantula over his mouth. Yeah. I would certainly scream if I woke up to that. Definitely. Definitely. Will we get into the podcast, John? I think we should get into our spoiler-filled discussion.

[00:02:14] Absolutely. Before we do, though, just a quick reminder to our fellow Defenders that you can head on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com where you can subscribe to any good or evil or thwipping or thwopping podcast catcher of your choice. You can also leave a voicemail over there as well if you want for our feedback. And, of course, we have email with feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com

[00:02:41] where you can send your thoughts, theories, and observations on all things to do with each and every episode of Spider Noir, including over on our Facebook group with our spoiler-filled comment posts. Just head on over to facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash tvpodcastindustries where you can leave your thoughts again on all things to do with Spider Noir. Yeah, we also have our Discord as well.

[00:03:09] Details of which are in the show notes right here as well. Just to mention, we actually did get the chance to put out our Daredevil Born Again quiz wrap-up. Our Josie's Bar quiz for season two. So, yes, the winners have been announced. Yes. So, you have to go over there to find out who they are. Yes, so a big congratulations to the winners over on our Josie's Bar quiz from Daredevil Born Again. Excellent stuff.

[00:03:37] But, Derek, shall we get into our spoiler-filled discussion? Who gave us what, where, when, how, why, and if? I don't know whether I can do that exactly. But the showrunner of the show, of course, is Orin Uziel. This is from executive producers Harry Bradbeer, Orin Uziel, Steve Alifefoot, Phil Lord, Chris Miller, Amy Pascal, Adisa Sood, and Dan Scheer. This episode was directed, once again, by Alethea Jones, who directed the last episode of the show. And the episode was written by Jack Henderson.

[00:04:04] Not a huge amount of credits on his resume so far, but he is an executive story editor on this entire season as well. Excellent stuff. This is his episode. Good stuff. John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with theorist synopsis for the episode? Sure. Ogden comes to Ben Riley's apartment to plead with him to stop Robbie Robertson from publishing his story on Dr. Faber's experiments. He reveals that he served in the war as well, but his mutation has rapidly aged him.

[00:04:32] When Ben refuses to cooperate, he drugs him to forcibly bring him to Faber's lab. Dr. Faber reveals that Ogden is her son, and she is determined to find a cure for the metahumans to help him. While the blood tests on Ben reveal nothing of note, Dr. Faber begins examining Ben's organs. During her operation, Ben has nightmares about the procedures and changes he endured after the spider bite.

[00:04:57] After analysing the samples from Ben's liver, Dr. Faber is able to develop a cure and restores Ogden to his true age. She plans to kill Ben so they can cover their tracks now that Robbie's article has been published. But Ogden allows him to escape to repay his services. Meanwhile, Silvermane and his men invade the facility to find more metahumans to join their ranks.

[00:05:22] After seeing other mutated soldiers that Faber failed to save and getting shot at by Ogden, Dirk Leiden kills Faber and Ogden. As the resulting fire blows up the lab, Ben manages to evade notice by Silvermane, Flint, Dirk and Lonnie and escapes the laboratory with Faber's antidote in his possession. Out, free and with a cure at hand. Absolutely.

[00:05:50] Really interesting to think where that might go. Looking forward to the next episode already. I love this. I would say it's an efficient episode. It's only got so much it needs to tell and it does it in a good way. But it felt quite quick compared to actually episode five, which I felt was long. Not in a bad way. Just this felt really quick.

[00:06:18] It felt like it was over before it began. But ultimately, it's quite a simple structure of man gets kidnapped. Man gets operated on. Man escapes with antidotes with a few other things happening in between. Yeah. And not very many. I think we might be stretching our web shots a little bit in this episode, John. Will we start out with our first one, though? Well, yes. I guess stretching our web shots like sort of a more obese Spider-Man would do.

[00:06:45] Like Into the Spider-Verse with one of the Peter Parkers who'd put on a bit of weight. Peter Porker. Yeah. Yes. No, not the pig. Not the pig. Okay. Yeah, the other guy. The actual Peter Parker. Oh, Peter B. Parker. Yeah, Peter B. Parker. Yes. Because he kind of let himself go a bit. He had, yes. Yeah. Yeah, that's what happens. The webs. You got the dad bod. That's all. Yeah, exactly. Obese. You just had dad bod. All dad bod then. Yeah. Dad bod Spider-Man would also kind of stretch the web shot slightly as well. That's it.

[00:07:13] And so we will start out stretching our web shots with our web shot number one. Indeed. Yes. Ogden is another mutant. Or a mutant. Or a human. Or a metahuman. Or a monster. Or a suit. Actually, now that I think about it, because this is a Sony production, they can't use the word mutant. Yeah, they can only use something like metahuman, I think. Because if they were able to use mutant, then they would steal all the X-Men from Marvel. So that's the little way to do it. Well, they call them soups here, don't they? Maybe superhumans.

[00:07:43] Yeah, but I think she calls them metahumans. Oh, maybe. Yeah, yeah. I think Dr. Ogden. Dr. Faber does, I think. But Ogden is another mutant. Interesting. So I quite like this opening, actually, because you have Ben Reilly preparing to leave, not knowing that he's just been thrown onto the bus by cats. Is he packing up his smalls? He's packing everything, yeah. I feel like his undies are getting... But he only takes one per and leaves a load.

[00:08:11] Well, you know, it is the 30s, John. That's going to get a little dodgy. I don't think he leaves a load. But I think he leaves one behind to show that his apartment's still there. I don't know. There's a weird kind of commitment and lack of commitment in the way that he's packing. He's packing most of his stuff. There's a really sad moment where he sees the photograph of Ruby and leaves it behind. And we, as the audience, know that cats just turned on him. Exactly. And here he is leaving behind the photograph of the love of his life. Indeed.

[00:08:38] Whereas my thoughts were kind of turned more towards whether he was packing his smalls or not. But anyway, it's amazing how you pick up on different things in the same scene. But yes, absolutely. We've talked more about the smalls than we have about his photograph. About him leaving the picture of his former love. But I quite like this scene because, yes, you have him leaving or preparing to leave, not knowing that he's been betrayed.

[00:09:04] As the person who is about to sort of implode his world comes, at least you think that. But I like the way that Ogden doesn't say that it's Cat Hardy that's told him where he is. He actually uses his own reason for knowing and recognizing Ben Reilly because he was one of the POWs

[00:09:31] that was at the camp when Ben Reilly rushed in to save them all. He was called Freckles. And we find out here that his mutation ages him. So it's interesting to wonder what kind of animal he was hooked up to. I guess it's just one that has a very short life cycle. So it just ages him really rapidly. But I was kind of wondering whether there was anything more to his superpower, not that he just ages quickly.

[00:09:59] I mean, I guess he gets lots of birthdays quite quickly. It's the worst superpower ever, isn't it? Do you want another slice of birthday cake? But I just had one last week. Exactly. But I like the way that actually, in a sense, he hides the fact that he's just been told by Cat. He doesn't see it of any importance to say that. So Ben Reilly is, at this moment, none the wiser. He doesn't know. About why Ogden is there.

[00:10:25] To him, Ogden is simply there because he knows the secret. He saw him getting bitten by the man spider. That's what he says. Yeah. And he also pretends that he's not there to take the spider in. He pretends that he's there to convince him to tell Robbie not to publish the story, interestingly. That's it. It's kind of like a test for Ben Reilly. If he goes along with it and says he'll get Robbie Roberts to not publish the story, then maybe things might have played out slightly differently. Yeah.

[00:10:55] Maybe he'll be on the side of Ogden and Dr. Faber. But ultimately, despite all the pleading here, Ben is kind of, well, Robbie is going to sort of publish this anyway. There's no way I'm going to stop him. I'm not even going to try. And this is where it ends up with Ben ultimately not going to help him. So Ogden goes to leave. But as he goes to give a farewell handshake, he injects him and knocks him out.

[00:11:20] I think the other interesting thing here is Ogden actually says to Ben Reilly, if you hadn't changed your name years ago, I would have been knocking at your door sooner. So I wonder what his name actually is. I wonder if it's a double P, Peter Parker. Well, like, you know, that is the situation in the comic books. Yeah.

[00:11:42] Ben Reilly, the first person to take the name, was known as Peter Parker for many years and turned out to be a clone and then took the name Ben Reilly and disappeared off into the Spider-Verse, eventually getting his own comic back. I think he's the Scarlet Spider in the comic book. God, somebody will have to correct me. I wish Chris was here to tell me for definite. But yes, originally, Ben Reilly was Peter Parker and then changed his name.

[00:12:05] And so here, yeah, just a reference that we have potentially Ben Reilly was previously called Peter Parker, which is quite cool. They've mentioned this a couple of times about the characters that they've chosen for the show and the character names are being used are a lot of them. The choices that are made are so that they don't confuse people because of the new Spider-Man brand new day movie coming up in just a couple of weeks time.

[00:12:29] But they just didn't want to choose characters that could potentially be in that universe and have people confused on what they are because this is another live action universe. So that's why we have characters that aren't appearing in the new Spider-Man movie in here and why we have the Ben Reilly name instead of the Peter Parker name here as well. That's one of the reasons anyway. But there you go. Yeah, excellent. I mean, I think also, you know, he doesn't really suggest that he's in the apartment with Dr. Faber.

[00:12:56] Other than that, he says Dr. Faber is my last chance. So there's no the family connection isn't revealed here either. So I kind of like how this plays with Ogden. He's he's giving everything up, but not the critical thing. So Ben Reilly just thinks, OK, well, I didn't recognize you because he's 35, even though he looks around 66 or 76. You know, so it all kind of makes sense.

[00:13:23] But then ultimately, Ben is knocked out. And I think that kind of brings us on to our web shot number two. Yeah. Yeah. It is Ben's nightmare. And ultimately, not just the nightmare or the vision, the psychedelic hallucination and nightmare that we see him have. But it is, you know, the name for this episode, a nightmare on a gurney. He gets strapped down.

[00:13:53] He gets drugged many times. Even at the end, Dr. Faber is, well, we've done all this against his will. You know, we need to sort of get rid of him. And also they've had to use so much of the chemicals to knock him out because the spider is very powerful. Exactly. Very strong. So this really reminded me the way that they filmed the scene coming back in after the opening. It really reminded me of the Ang Lee version of the Hulk.

[00:14:20] That movie, because they were they were trying to take some cues from comic books by having some panels come in with different things going on in the panels. And what we see here is as Ben's being strapped down, you see them being shown from different angles as if it's part of panels from a comic book, which I thought was really cool. Yeah. No, it's really good. I mean, actually, it takes a really nice dark turn here. Like Ben says, let me go and I won't kill you. You have Faber kind of coming back saying, well, you're not a murderer.

[00:14:48] You've saved all the lives of these POWs, came home and you saved a load more people. But again, you have, you know, this nightmare for Ben because he says, well, I've been here before. I've been subjected to tests by the army after he liberated the POWs and got bitten by Man Spider.

[00:15:11] And, you know, this is where we kind of have that first kind of little bit of a flashback or hallucination after he's been drugged. Yeah. Where he is finding it difficult to control the tics and motions of his body now that it's got the arachnid genes flowing through it. And I have to say these spasms and tics that Nicolas Cage does, I just absolutely love them.

[00:15:38] In some respects, I'm like going, how did he make that choice to do that kind of stuff? It's Nick Cage. He's a great actor. But it made total sense. I mean, there's some really good physical acting going on by him here in this moment. But even when he's staggering along the corridors of this private lab of Dr. Faber,

[00:16:02] even where he's using his webs to keep him upright, it's just really, really good. It's fabulous. And I thought these tics and motions were just classic. Yeah. And just where he's got his hands against his face, like he's got the mandibles of a spider when he's going along. Literally, the note that I've written down is Nick Cage's performance is saving millions on the effects budget for this show. Because what's really going on inside is, it seems, at least from the conversation he had with Kat in the last episode about the arachnogenes being in his body,

[00:16:32] it's like as if he's trying to forcibly stop himself from becoming like the man spider. And he's being successful by pushing it inside of himself. You know, that's what it's almost like. Whereas the soldier that had been turned into the man spider, who we see in a really scary moment in this nightmare sequence, it's as if because he was strapped down to the gurney after his experiment,

[00:16:57] that he was unable to do what Nick Cage is able to do here with the way he's pushing everything inside himself. You know, it's such a cool way of doing it. And again, I'm sure this is coming from Nick's experience as an actor as well and making all these interesting choices. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I do think this hallucination is really good. It's cool, yeah. And, you know, as the drugs kick in, you have that general asking, you know, effectively saying, well, let's see what's inside of you, what you're made out of.

[00:17:26] I love the, you know, the cut that they make. Of course, at the same time, this is being done, that cut is being done by Dr. Faber, but it's all these little spiders pouring out of the wound. Yeah, it's flashbacks back to the man spider.

[00:17:47] And ultimately, it kind of, you know, as the drugs are kind of really circulating, it's just this moment, quiet moment with Ruby, this vision of Ruby, which then ultimately turns into a nightmare. She disappears because, in a sense, he's leaving her behind like he was doing with the photo in the drawer. So it was just really, really neat, I thought.

[00:18:14] I thought this was really nice, the way this played out, you know, Ben's nightmare on a gurney through this episode. Yeah, and that Ruby moment, a real reminder for me of Twin Peaks. It just felt like they were in the red room there with the big red curtains around Ruby, and then as she disappears, so something going on in the dreams. As always, lots and lots of things in the world remind me of Twin Peaks as well, though, because I love it. Yeah, absolutely. Really cool moment, though.

[00:18:42] Let's get on to a very quick web shot, number three, I think, John. Yes, The Cure. We're going to see them next week, haven't we? We are going to see them next Friday. Or The Antidote. Right. I think just to begin with, though, I do like that Ben kind of looks at Dr. Faber and says, you're one of those scientists, you know, and she's like, I'm nothing like them. She gets really angry.

[00:19:10] And this is where it comes out that Dr. Faber's son is Freckles. You know, I want my son to have a second chance. And, you know, she will do anything to try and save her son Ogden or Oggy, as she calls him. But this is the moment where she says that it was his lady friend that told her where to find him. You know, she's very beautiful.

[00:19:39] And ultimately, this is where Ben realizes that Kat was responsible for giving his identity away. Absolutely. And not only does she say she's very beautiful, she said she's trying to save a love in her life just like I am. So almost telling Ben that he has been taken in by the femme fatale who has turned on him to save somebody else that she actually loves. Yeah, absolutely. Which is a very hard moment.

[00:20:08] But all the blood that's been taken is madingly kind of normal for Dr. Faber after all that kind of blood extraction. And so Dr. Faber sort of turns to taking biopsies of his organs, different organs. Yeah. And as she takes it, you know, she kind of reminds Ben Reilly that you're the only test subject that mutated or whose mutation didn't come with a degradation. Yes. And I think Flint Marco says something really nice.

[00:20:38] He says, whilst we're getting stronger, we're also getting weaker as it takes its toll on them. And here then, after a little bit of a biopsy and a little bit of centrifuging and a few chemicals into the mix, you know, within 10 minutes, she has found the answer and has identified his regenerative powers from his liver and then also creates an antidote.

[00:21:08] So I think, you know, no clinical trials just before she uses this cure on her son, Freckles, that she'll do anything to save. But, you know, it's straight in at the deep end. I do like the moment because, you know, Freckles is saying, well, are you sure about this? And she's like, well, I've already done it. I'm like, OK, so not even any consent form. No. I'm like, and she does say, I've never been more sure about anything else that we've ever done.

[00:21:38] Agreed. But that's not necessarily confirmation that she is sure. It's just that she's never been more sure. No, exactly. But we're right in the territory here. We've gone out of the crime noir movies and we're now into 50s creature features. That's really what this felt like. And in black and white in this one, you could see all the shadows. Absolutely. You could see that darkness. You can see a little bit of Frankenstein in there with Dr. Faber as well. Definitely.

[00:22:01] I mean, I must say when she injects her song with this, I do love that they just use a simple spinning camera. And it's mainly as it goes around for the second pass because you still have Ogden as an old man. Yeah. And it goes then on to Dr. Faber who is, or it looks like she's about to scream and you're thinking, okay, how is this going to be horrific? Yeah. Or is it going to be fine?

[00:22:30] And it ends off being fine. Yeah. And it's really good. But I just like that little sense of tension just from as you're waiting for the camera to spin round back to Ogden to see if it's worked in this, you know, quick time. Yeah. I do like how expedited scientific discoveries are done in movies and TV. Oh, it's certainly back here. It's certainly back here. This is definitely a nod to those types of movies. You have to get past your point where you're...

[00:23:00] This is faster than the COVID vaccine. It is. Absolutely. As they keep saying. And that was many, many years in the making. Exactly. Yeah. But I do love how they do this as well. As you say, John, having Andrew Robinson standing in the frame one second. And then we have a new actor playing young Ogden, Cal Castor, who plays young Ogden there. Great choice here by the casting director. He looks exactly like Andrew Robinson would have at that age.

[00:23:26] So maybe he's got a career ahead of him working in a new Hellraiser movie playing the young Andrew Robinson in there. Or maybe if Deep Space Nine wants to get a new Garrick back, maybe they can stick him in the Kardashian outfit. That would be kind of cool. I must say, though, it did really make me laugh that the cure for the virus was found in Ben Reilly's liver, of all places. Like, is this this week's Whiskey Watch? We've got the liver. It's the green spot.

[00:23:56] Maybe that was the red spot in his liver. Because even earlier on when Ogden went to visit his house, the first thing he said to him was, do you want to come in for a drink? And they sit down for the non-branded whiskey once again. Yeah. Maybe the cure is in the non-branded whiskey. It could be. It just took a while to go on to Ogden. It's why Silvermane doesn't like the taste of it. But for Ben, he's got arachnid taste. It's fine. Do you know? Yeah.

[00:24:24] So ultimately, Oggy is fine. I do. You know it's not going to end well when, you know, a little bit later after this. Because Oggy is basically, goes down to pretend to kill Ben. Because now that this has all happened, his mum, Dr. Faber, kind of freaks out a bit. Also, they know that Robbie's article will have published.

[00:24:53] And so they need to go on the run. And she's like, it's his life for yours. And Oggy goes down, but ultimately isn't willing to kill him because he helped save his life. But Ben asks, as they're escaping the lab, well, what are you planning to do with the rest of your life as we see Silvermane and his men arrive at this secret lab?

[00:25:22] So I think we can go on to our web shot number four. Yeah, that did seem to be a portent of death right there. What are you going to do with all the rest of this life that you've gained? Indeed. Not much. Our web shot number four. Dirk Lydon kills Dr. Faber and Oggy. So, yeah, again, this is, speaking of creature features, this is just good.

[00:25:49] You know, ultimately, Silvermane is here because he wants to recruit more mutants, more metahumans, super-powered individuals. He's got a gang. He wants an army. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. This is where they have come previously in order to have the tests done by Dr. Faber to try and cure them of the mutation and the degradation.

[00:26:16] What happens is, I love the fact that you have, I mean, we don't see it, but Ben Reilly strings himself and freckles up on the ceiling of the lift as Silvermane, Flint, Dirk and Lonnie come down to find Dr. Faber. But freckles does go back to help his mum. And that's immediately after Ben Reilly has asked him what he's going to do with the rest of his life. Yeah.

[00:26:43] And it kind of goes downhill from there for the double Fs, really, because, you know... Freckles and Faber, right? Freckles and Faber. Yeah. Mainly because, you know, there's a hint here that actually they become suspicious of Dr. Faber that she's not really been trying to save them. That possibly she could be the one that is making them worse.

[00:27:09] And this is sort of compounded when you come onto this ghoulish site, like you say, this creature feature where you see, like, three or four other of the POWs who are now dead, but almost, like, kept in those, you know, like, huge jars of formaldehyde and preserved because they've died. They've grown the different limbs.

[00:27:34] I think the only one that I could really spot from this was the brain mantis claw that we saw. And just so I could remember that from the flashback to Ben Reilly saving them from the German camp. But there were a few others as well. You know, so you have this ghoulish site. I think, you know, in a sense, Silvermane has realised there's nothing really much here for him anymore.

[00:28:04] But this is all compounding the thought that, well, are you really trying to help us? And you see Megawatt begin to sort of pulse with his electricity. And then this gunshot goes off, which is from Freckles. And, you know, Flint kind of sort of gets him but recognises him. And after he's shot Megawatt, but Megawatt then goes to get his revenge.

[00:28:34] You know, he is quite a loose cannon. And so grabs Freckles. Flint is telling him not to. And you even have Lonnie trying to pull him off. But ultimately he's got both Dr. Faber and Freckles. And I guess discharges too much electricity into them. And they both die. I think he's holding Freckles gun as well. So there's some electricity that will transfer through the metal, I guess.

[00:29:03] I guess so. But I just think it's direct sort of electrocution from him. And they both fall down dead together. And as I say, Silverman is more, well, there's nothing here for me now. But he does say to Megawatt, you're going to have to learn some impulse control here. I do like it. Just again, it's just because Brendan's using his Dublin accent. Just the way he says it just sounds really threatening to me. Absolutely.

[00:29:33] We've heard criminals in Ireland speak those types of words. And you know this is when the criminal mastermind tells you you're going to have to learn something, that means you're probably going to be dead in the next episode. So I don't think Layden's going to survive very much longer. No, I don't think so. I mean, interestingly, Silverman is quite sort of peripheral here. But he has that moment with Dirk Layden.

[00:29:56] I do like the other moment where, you know, as they arrive down into this bunkered laboratory, he says to Dr. Faber, you have quite an operation down here. The only things missing are a cauldron and two weird sisters, because it just looks like this witch's paradise. That was a nice little touch here. But otherwise, you know, there's nothing of any value for him here,

[00:30:26] because the rest of his so-called army have already perished. Yeah, he's got the main group himself. Just one question that I had was, do Flint and Lonnie know Ogden at all? Has Ogden been beside Dr. Faber the whole time, pretending that he's her assistant? Or do they know that he was freckles when he was in the POW camp with them? And that he's aged? Do they know that that's what happened to him?

[00:30:55] I couldn't catch that, whether they knew him or not. I think it comes more from Dirk. Dirk says, because he asks Dr. Faber, how is your old boy Ogden? Okay, so yeah. Is he still alive? And she says, no, he's dead. And it cuts the laughter. She's trying to protect him ultimately. Yeah, yeah, okay. So they didn't know that Ogden was a member of their crew and had just gotten old as his super fair. Yeah.

[00:31:23] It's pretty terrible for a super fair. But yeah, we've only got one last web shot to go, John. A very small one. Absolutely. Let's get on to web shot number five. Just the reveal as Ben makes his way out after being freed by Ogden, the reveal is that Ben has the antidote. Yes. So what's he going to do with it? Who's he going to give it to? Is he going to take it himself so that he is cured of his spider powers?

[00:31:53] It's quite a tantalizing little moment, actually, because we are in this different multiverse of Spider-Man with Spider-Noir. He has that antidote here. He has managed to evade being noticed by not only Perry and Pudge outside, waiting at the cars, but equally Silvermane, Flint, Lonnie and Dirk.

[00:32:20] And he has also, I mean, I don't think they looked at anything that forensically or went back to it, but the lab is now destroyed. Absolutely true. And you have him before the fire absolutely destroys everything, taking off the labels off the Petri dish to show that it's his sample. His incredible curing liver.

[00:32:45] You know, he's getting his clothes and all that so that he can leave, but also that they don't find them. And his spider mask. Yeah, and his spider mask. But luckily it does get thrown up into flames, so I don't suspect that they've seen any of this and they wouldn't have known about the antidote either. It's very good at Dr. Faber to write it in really neat handwriting. Absolutely. The antidote is written on the jar. You have to do that, right? Of course you do. That's just scientific procedure. Yes.

[00:33:16] So I guess we'll see how that plays out next week. And I guess there's a choice for Ben Reilly. 62 years old are the actor playing Ben Reilly, Nick Cage. So potentially this is a good option for him to take the antidote and then move on from being the spider at the end of the series. That would be a good way to end the spider story, I suppose. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Any notes from the episode, John? Anything you want to mention that we didn't mention already? No notes from me. Derek, what about yourself? No, nothing from me.

[00:33:45] I'm ready for dinner. I want some ravioli. Excellent. I have no idea why that was what came out of Ben Reilly's mouth as he passed out. But I kind of fancy some ravioli sometimes as well. So, John, do you defend Spider Noir, episode six, Nightmare on a Gurney? I really do defend this episode. I'd give it four oggy oggy oggies, oi, oi, oi, out of five. And we're back in the boys. Yes.

[00:34:13] I do like a Cornish pasty being thrown down at me whilst I'm working in the mines. What? I believe that's where it comes from. It's like, oi, oi, oi, oi. And they go, oi, oi, oi. And you chuck down the food. Well, that's some history that I didn't know. I only know it from my days in Skys, John. This could be myth. I don't know. But I think it's a Cornish kind of expression. There you go. So, I do. Yes. I think this episode, it was short and sweet. It was.

[00:34:43] It was to the point. It did what it needed to do, ultimately. But, again, I think it had some nice moments between Ben Reilly and Ogden or Freckles. I do like the fact that we see, you know, the plan of Silvermane to build his super-powered army, as you say, to rule the streets of New York, to hassle and intimidate Morris.

[00:35:12] But, ultimately, that's kind of dashed on the rocks because most of them have died already now from their exposure to these tests. I don't think Silvermane actually needs a massive army. The three people that he's got up against Mayor Morris would probably do a good bit of damage to him. Absolutely. But, you know, his kind of master plan here. I like just how this is very much, you know, history repeating for poor Ben.

[00:35:42] You have him being tested on immediately after being bitten by Man Spider in Germany to now being strapped to a gurney and experimented on without his consent by Dr. Faber. However, good reasons it is for in terms of around her son, you know, I do like where you get this moment where he says, you know, if you let me go, I won't kill you. I just think that's kind of, you know, really dark.

[00:36:12] And I kind of like this. I mean, whatever about, you know, she has such a facility at her disposal. It looks quite a complex. It's our private lab. Yeah, exactly. But I guess it's private connected maybe to the hospital that she works at or something. I don't know. No, she's Dr. Frackenstein. It is really, yeah. It's the modern day, yeah, castle. You know the way you kind of siphon off a few pens and some paper from work, you know, if you siphon off all of this equipment, you can set up your own lab.

[00:36:40] The wobble on her desk is being held up by one pack of A4 or something. Exactly. Exactly. So I think it also looks like it's in a power station, doesn't it, or something like that? Yeah, it does. So, yeah, I thought this was really good. I thought it was a nice, short, sharp, sweet episode. Well, maybe not so much sweet. You know, I think at the end of it, you have Ben Reilly coming out with an antidote to all his woes. He knows about Kat Hardy's betrayal.

[00:37:09] So let's see what happens. So, yeah, for me, four Oggie Oggie Oggies. Oy, oy, oy, out of five. Excellent. Excellent. Derek, what about yourself? Do you defend Nightmare on a Gurney? I keep wanting to say Nightmare on Guernsey. Okay. It's like an episode of Bergerac or something like that. Like an episode of Black Mirror. Yeah. Yes, I do defend this episode.

[00:37:34] The only one thing that I really wanted to say in addition to what you've talked about is that I think this is a great showcase for Nick Cage, more so for this episode than most of the rest of the season. Because this feels like his version of the fly. It's like Jeff Goldblum in that movie did the transformation into the insect there. And here we have Nick Cage's version of trying to protect himself from transforming into the Iraq. And I think just being able to have that on screen in this short episode with a very simple premise works really well.

[00:38:04] So I'm delighted this has seen the light of day just for that in this episode. So yes, absolutely defend it. Really good stuff. Excellent stuff. Shall we get on to our feedback from our fellow defenders? Let's do it. First up, over on our Facebook group from Alan Thomas from one of the previous episodes, we have a couple of minor corrections regarding US history.

[00:38:28] Hoovervilles were the bitter kind of sarcastic nickname for any camp of unemployed vagrants at the time. So it wasn't just the name of that camp. You were right that they were named after President Hoover. But in November 1932, FDR won the presidential election against Hoover. So unless this is a very, very early in 1933, Hoover is no longer president. Excellent stuff, Alan.

[00:38:55] Thanks so much for that little bit of history and the timeline around Hoovervilles. I guess it's something that's maybe a legacy of that term of President Hoover. Yeah. But just it's lingering on, I guess, maybe. Oh, absolutely. And I think it was just I misspoke. I knew it wasn't a specific camp on a specific street in New York that was called Hooverville or called Hooverville. I knew that was there was the general name for any of those camps. I think I just misspoke then.

[00:39:23] But, yeah, it came from President Hoover from early on in the Depression. And it has lasted up until this time because it's been going on for quite a long time at this stage. And I would presume it probably played into his loss to FDR. Not many presidents would be able to survive having camps of unemployed people in the city of New York. Named after them. Yeah. I guess the Depression, though, it took quite a lot of politicians down. Absolutely. For sure. But great stuff.

[00:39:53] Thanks so much, Alan. Thanks, Alan. For that feedback. Really good. Over on email, we have Coffee and Vodka who says, Greetings, fellow liver-spotted defenders. A nicely sparse episode with a clear moral message. All doctors are evil. Beyond this, an impromptu antidote and a day off for most of the cast. All I've got for this one, other than Andrew Lewis Caldwell, is having far too good a time. Mm-hmm.

[00:40:21] Four cagey contortions, leveled, layered, level layers, and well-preserved failures out of five. Bees and take care, coffee and vodka. Excellent stuff. I do like the well-preserved failures out of five. Very good. Excellent. And the cagey contortions is a good one as well because I did really enjoy Nicolas Cage doing kind of the robot, the dance robot. As it were. I am.

[00:40:51] For sure. A 1930s robot. Yeah. Very good, yeah. And Andrew Lewis Caldwell is doing a great job here as Dirk Layden or Megawatt. He's just doing such a good job. And I suppose the part of the character is that he is supposed to be massively theatrical because he believes he should be on the stage. He's an actor. He's an actor. In the earliest days of acting that way in New York. So we like that. And I have to say, yes, not all doctors are evil. No, they're not. They are not, John. No, absolutely not. Absolutely.

[00:41:20] Including doctors of geography. Exactly. Doctors of geography are just lovely. And other doctors as well, like Dr. Bob, who has his feedback over on Discord. He says the quality of this show isn't drifting. So many excellent bits. The split screen in the secret lab. The delirium played out in full 60s technicolor mania. Yes, rewatched in color for this. The physical performance of the spider contortions dropping from the ceiling as the doors let the quartet of doom enter.

[00:41:45] And the final walk of cool as the baddies didn't need to rush from the plot paste fireball. Only bits to complain about would be the use of open liver biopsy when the Europeans have been doing needle ones for about two decades. The way that Petri dish looked heavily contaminated with Staph auras, not hepatitisites. And the quite atrocious technique for barbiturates injections. They should be deep intramuscular. Oh, Dr. Bob. See, not an evil doctor.

[00:42:13] A doctor that's just concerned about his patients getting the barbiturates put into their body correctly. Indeed. I thought as soon as I saw what was going on from Dr. Vero, I was like, oh, I'd love to know what Dr. Bob thinks of this. No clinical trials before. Just whacking off the injection into Augie. Uh-huh. Yeah. There you go. The killer cure, I guess. Absolutely.

[00:42:40] And yeah, totally, you know, really excellent aspects here in this episode as well. Whether it's in black and white or the full color, it's just really nicely done. Again, I'm really glad you enjoyed the performance of the spider contortions as well as, yeah, the quarters of doom is quite a nice phrase as well. Great name for it. Absolutely. So good stuff. Thanks so much, Dr. Bob. And of course, coffee and vodka previously.

[00:43:10] Absolutely. Absolutely. Finally, Joe Herbst says, Cage is a bit old for this role, but he's still got the physical performance for it. I'm surprised Flint and Lonnie were so callous about their former comrade burning to death. They hadn't seemed so bad before this episode. The doctor was a bit odd, seeming to oscillate between wanting to help the soldiers and willing to kill them. She was mostly focused on her son, but still. Absolutely. I think she's kind of made that rationale, though, Dr. Faber, that, you know, if she can save everybody else, great.

[00:43:38] But the focus is absolutely on saving Arden. Yes. And she has saved him at this stage. So, yeah. But she sees him unsaved. That is the problem. She certainly does. And vice versa. Yeah. The lights go out, as they say. But Flint and Lonnie do seem to have taken up their positions as the heavy men for Silvermane. Yeah, I don't know whether there's any saving them as the season goes on either. I feel Lonnie potentially more so. Certainly not Dirk.

[00:44:07] In fact, he might be so much of a loose cannon. Who knows what he might do. Everybody's got to gang up together versus Dirk. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, it'll be interesting there. How this Doom Quartet, as Dr. Bob calls them, play out. I'm not entirely sure they are quite as comrade-y as they may make out. I don't think so. Just don't know how it's going to play out here. But only two episodes left to find out how it is going to play out, John. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:44:36] Thank you so much, fellow Defenders, for all the feedback. Keep them coming in for the remaining two episodes of Spider Noir. But we will be back next time with our chat about Spider Noir, episode 7, Nobody's Hero. So we would love to get your feedback on that episode. Absolutely. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll talk to you again next time. Can't wait for it. Until then, keep watching, keep listening, and of course, fellow Defenders, keep defending. Bye.

[00:45:06] Bye.