Derek and John are finally back to chat about The Sandman Season 2 Episode 10 "Long Live The King" in spoiler filled detail. It is a huge episode in The Sandman mythos we are sorry it's been so long coming.
The Sandman 210 "Long Live The King" Spoilers
Episode teleplay by Marina Marlens
Episode directed by Jamie Childs
Synopsis: As they continue their path of destruction through The Dreaming, The Furies and their avatar Lyta Hall kills Abel and Merv Pumpkinhead and try to kill Dreams’ raven Matthew, but he escapes to Lucienne, Cain, Corinthian and Daniel in the throne room. Morpheus comes back to his realm and momentarily breaks the hold of The Kindly Ones on Lyta after she sees that her son Daniel is alive. But The Kindly Ones refuse to free her saying they aren’t her to retrieve Daniel they are here for vengeance.
To save his realm Morpheus goes to the waking world to kill Lyta, but Mad Hettie has put protections around Lyta to prevent this. She tells Morpheus that Daniel won't be happy with him if he kills his mother and that’s the last thing he needs.
In the land of Faery, Nuala makes peace with Cluracan and Titania and is allowed to return to the Dreaming. With little other option Morpheus tells everyone he is going to the furthest edge of Dreaming, and has a tearful goodbye with his friends, thanking them for everything that they’ve done to help his growth.
His sister Death arrives and Dream sends Matthew to bring her to him. Death and Morpheus talk for some time and finally Morpheus takes her hand to accept his death and goes with her.
At the same moment, The Kindly Ones vanish and Nuala takes Lyta Hall’s head in the Dreaming. Lyta wakes up in the waking world and Daniel, suddenly an adult as the new Dream, starts to repair the realm and as Delirium is reunited with her dog Barnabas she realises her brother Dream is gone.
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Thanks for joining us for our podcast all about The Sandman Season 2 Episode 10 “Long Live The King”. We'll be back next time with our discussion about The Sandman Season 2 Episode 11 “A Tale Of Noble Ends”. The Podcast is already recorded so we promise it won't be long.
Thanks so much for joining us fellow Dreamers.
John and Derek
TV Podcast Industries
The music for this episode "Lucille" by Zenji is licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives (Creative Commons 4.0)
00:00 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the Sandman podcast on TV podcast industries we're back for the Sandman season 2 chapter 10 Long Live the King.
00:07 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_04]: You left your room drinking.
00:11 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_04]: This castle is ours now.
00:14 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_04]: To do with what we will.
00:17 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_04]: You and yours are no longer safe here.
00:20 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, lighter hall.
00:24 --> 00:26 [SPEAKER_04]: We are not lighter hall.
00:27 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_04]: We are more than lighter hall.
00:30 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_00]: New art, my gatekeeper.
00:33 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_04]: You killed my son.
00:35 --> 00:36 [SPEAKER_00]: You have been deceived.
00:39 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_00]: My those that would use you to achieve their own ends.
01:01 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_04]: That is not Daniel.
01:04 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Not anymore.
01:06 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Let me go.
01:08 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Please, our work is not yet done.
01:12 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_04]: My dear.
01:12 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_04]: That's my baby.
01:15 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_04]: That's Daniel.
01:16 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Partly?
01:17 --> 01:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
01:18 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_04]: He isn't dead.
01:22 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
01:22 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_00]: He is not.
01:23 --> 01:25 [SPEAKER_04]: He is no longer alive.
01:43 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back fellow dreamers to TV podcast industries for our return to the dreaming and the sun man season 2 chapter 10 Long live the king.
01:53 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I am one of your host Derek and I am one of your other host John.
01:57 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back fellow dreamers and a long time no see My apologies for all
02:04 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_03]: delays with the final installments of the Sandman.
02:10 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_03]: We've been looking at Marvel zombies, we've been doing Gen V in the Boyz universe, as well as a whole host of other things.
02:19 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_03]: So the Sandman got slightly interrupted for us, but we are back now to discuss.
02:25 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, absolutely ten.
02:27 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Long live the king.
02:28 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, indeed.
02:29 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_03]: The king is dead.
02:31 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, long live the king.
02:32 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
02:33 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
02:34 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, sorry about the delay and thanks so much to those of you that we checked as a few comments on our Facebook group and people wondering where it's gone.
02:42 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll ever get back to the salmon and uh, a couple of emails that came in as well.
02:46 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but thank you so much for your patience.
02:48 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_01]: We know it's been a very long time.
02:49 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, this was partly as we said before to do with the fact that it was all
02:53 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_01]: over the core, over what we were away on Netflix and there was so much other stuff that we had to cover that was coming out weekly, which tends to get about 10 times the listenership to something that gets dropped and we look back on, so we tend to have to focus on things to come out weekly like GenV.
03:09 --> 03:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you so much for your patience, we are back, we're not gonna dwell on that for too much longer because we will be closing out at Sam and over the next two weeks, so
03:22 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I think we should get into our spoiler-filled discussion for those who maybe are picking us up for the first time Please remember to pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com Where you can subscribe to the podcast on any Dreamlike or Nightmarish podcast player of your choices Especially if you want to pick up some stuff that we have been talking about in the intro between the Sandman and all the other shows that we've been covering all of that up over there
03:49 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, we do like to get your thoughts, theories, observations, even on our interrupted Sandman podcast.
03:55 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_03]: So please send in your emails on any of the episodes of Sandman to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or over on our Facebook group at facebook.com, forward slash groups, forward slash TV podcast industries, but
04:12 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_03]: uh, without further a cat nap deck who gave us what were when and how for episodes 10 of the sunman long lived the king.
04:23 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the executive producers of the show are on the Heinberg Jamie Childs and David Escora Jamie Childs, the director of each of the episodes for season two of the sunman and this episode the teleplay was written for us by Marina Marlins who's been the assistant the executive producers for the entire season for the sunman season two but this is their first credit for this episode.
04:41 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_01]: A pretty big episode to get your first writing credit, so guessing the game and may have been the other writer on this, but as his credits have been removed from the show, I would suggest this is probably one of the episodes he wrote.
04:53 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, excellent.
04:54 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And but good to have someone who's been involved with the show coming into to deal with the Tally play alongside, we're guessing, Neil Gaiman.
05:05 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
05:07 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for the 10th episode of Season 2 of The Sandman Long with the King?
05:15 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
05:16 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_03]: As they continue their path of destruction through the Dreaming, the Furies and their avatar lighter hull, kill Abel and Mave Pumpkinett, and also try to kill Dreams Raven Matthew, but he escapes to Lucien, Kane, Corinthian and Daniel in the throne room.
05:34 --> 05:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Morpheus comes back to his realm and momentarily breaks the hold of the Cangley Wands on Lighter, after she sees that her son Daniel is alive, but the Cangley Wands refused to
05:46 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Here to retrieve Daniel, they are here for vengeance.
05:50 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_03]: To say his realm, Morpheus goes to the waking world to kill lighter hull, but that he has put protections around lighter to prevent this.
05:58 --> 06:04 [SPEAKER_03]: She tells Morpheus that Daniel won't be happy with him if he kills his mother, and that's the last thing he needs.
06:04 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_03]: In the land of Fairy, Nula makes peace with Clurrican and Titania, and is allowed to return to the Dreaming.
06:12 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_03]: With little of that option, Morphis tells everyone he is going to the furthest edge of the Dreaming and has a tearful goodbye with his friends, thanking them for everything that they have done to help his growth.
06:23 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Dream's sister death arrives, and he sends Matthew to bring her to him.
06:28 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Death and Morpheus talk for some time, and finally Morpheus takes her hand to accept his death and goes with her.
06:36 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_03]: At the same moment, the kind who wants vanish, and new the takes later hulls head in the dreaming.
06:41 --> 06:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Lighter wakes up in the waking worlds, and Daniel suddenly an adult as the new dream starts to repair the realm, and as Delirium is reunited with her dog Barnabas,
06:52 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_03]: She realizes her brother Morfius is gone.
06:54 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, John, you've watched it along, having not read the comic books, did you think this is so?
06:58 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_01]: The tale would end.
06:58 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_01]: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
07:05 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_03]: No, actually, I thought he would riggle out of it, but I think this episode as well as episode 11, I think has a really nice message to say, ultimately, about death, really, and so I think it's really, really beautiful.
07:29 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_03]: So I absolutely enjoyed how this ended up.
07:34 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
07:34 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was quite pleased to see it.
07:36 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think over these two kind of final episodes, there is that meta story or point being made about writing as well.
07:48 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's by a writer.
07:50 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
07:50 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's really good.
07:51 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I must say I really enjoyed how
07:55 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_03]: this episode went and how it plays out.
07:58 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, and I will say that's probably a big trait of Neil Games as well, you know, the stories that her is best stories, things like American gods or Alancy Boys or the graveyard book or of course the Sunman itself heard.
08:11 --> 08:14 [SPEAKER_01]: tend to be stories about storytelling in a way.
08:14 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It's almost him telling his process out loud to the audience, which makes him so detailed and so interesting to read.
08:22 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm glad it's transferred so well into the series.
08:25 --> 08:32 [SPEAKER_03]: It does also have one of my best lines in quite some time from Nula the Fairy.
08:32 --> 08:43 [SPEAKER_03]: As she says to Clariken, as she wants to leave the land of fairy, I'll have you remove this glamour and give me back my face.
08:43 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, really good.
08:44 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
08:45 --> 08:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think I mentioned before that she does look, when she's made up, does look very like an Irish dancer.
08:51 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was once again struck at how close that is when you see her fully made up with her
08:57 --> 08:58 [SPEAKER_01]: air high energy.
08:58 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, like this patchantry thing exactly see in Louisiana.
09:02 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's yeah.
09:03 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's pretty much the same thing except Irish dancing is yeah, usually reserved for a small group of people in Ireland.
09:09 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So they'd be very used to that.
09:10 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very good.
09:12 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Very good, shall we get into our top moments from the episodes?
09:16 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, yeah, let's start with Morphius and what he is aiming to do.
09:21 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So he is looking to kill lighter in the waking world.
09:25 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_01]: The episode starts out with the continuation of the attack by the kindly ones on their avatar at now, like a whole, being used by them to kill anyone in her way.
09:35 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_01]: which starts off with her killing Abel and I love this this moment of of his death because we've seen and if you've read the comic books Actually you've seen Abel die at the hands of Kay and over and over and over again sometimes for not bringing him a cup of tea sometimes for much bigger reasons but he always comes back
09:55 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm this moment when he's being faced with true death for at the hands of life issues.
10:02 --> 10:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in the sword towards him and he says, but you don't even love me, you don't even know me.
10:05 --> 10:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's part of the deal that there is between these brothers who are one brother who murders the other brother, the deal is.
10:11 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_01]: because he loves him, he can kill him and able will come back from the dead, so he's actually facing his true death and knows it at the hands of ISIS.
10:19 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought that was a really interesting little touch that you have in there that line, which more speaks to the bigger wider story of those characters in the comics.
10:28 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I do like it kind of foreshadows the notion that she's not entirely transfixed or under the spell or the mindless avatar of the furies as she kind of hesitates or doubts the retrieval of
10:44 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_03]: the sword from Abel's body.
10:48 --> 10:52 [SPEAKER_03]: But ultimately as well, that they then move on to the next.
10:52 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So it is a bit like the grim reaper with the size, making its way through the dreaming.
10:58 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_03]: As they move on to poor old Smith Pumpkiness, I can only ever say it like that.
11:04 --> 11:31 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a long-standing joke between myself and John, there's an old, he's a 17-hour minute, he's called Pumpkinhead, and that I always thought would be hilarious to set in Liverpool because of how the Penance Pumpkinhead, and to be kind of like the way that they brought up to date the movie Candy Man, and brought that to a much more recent history, if you brought Pumpkinhead to Liverpool, it would just be very good fun.
11:31 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
11:32 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I dare to say Candyman as well, he has scar sex and it would be pretty good as well.
11:37 --> 11:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
11:38 --> 11:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Candyman, Candyman, Candyman, Candyman.
11:42 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_01]: He's coming in there, John.
11:44 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Amy.
11:45 --> 11:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But that is on the side.
11:46 --> 11:48 [SPEAKER_01]: We do have action hero.
11:49 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Murr of public and head here with his massive gun.
11:52 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I do love when the kindly ones are looking over at him going.
11:55 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_01]: What?
11:55 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_01]: The hell are you, and he goes, I'm a pumpkin with a shock.
11:59 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're worse than me.
11:59 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a human.
12:00 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:01 --> 12:02 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the worst nightmare.
12:02 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Very cool, very cool.
12:04 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, then, thereafter, Matthew, and as he sort of manages to escape, he just flies a cane, Lucien, and Corinthian, saying that they all laying waste to the dreaming.
12:16 --> 12:21 [SPEAKER_01]: He does, but I just thought it was really interesting when the Kylieones is one, the eldest of the Kylieones.
12:22 --> 12:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It's when they're having that conversation and they're going, oh, that's more of your spirit.
12:26 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_01]: He wouldn't like it if we if we killed him and the eldest one goes, he wouldn't like it all with a little smile in our face.
12:32 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So they are relishing this moment of revenge.
12:34 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's really noticeable in that moment when they fire the bullets back and kill Murr Pumpkin had his fire at all the bullets to them.
12:42 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_01]: They send them all back killing him and then they want to take Ash Matthew.
12:46 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_01]: The youngest doesn't because she fears what more people do.
12:50 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_01]: The middle one Realizes the situation and the eldest one really relishes wanted to take him out.
12:55 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So you know, it's that
12:57 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: That thing of those characters, they're not always written the best way, but usually there should be some sense of a useful a middle age and an elderly version of their conversation when they're speaking to each other, and I think that's just one of those moments that stands out quite well to me.
13:11 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, definitely.
13:12 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Definitely.
13:13 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, ultimately you have then more for your skin froncing lighter hole and the furious and the gates of the dreaming, you know, he says you've been deceived by those who would use you to achieve their own ends.
13:31 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, all the time, I love the fact that I
13:35 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_03]: on the doorstep, there is this tug of war between the fates and Morphius of Lighter Hall, the Vatre trying to keep her on mission, you know, your son now belongs to the dream king, they kind of sort of temper the fact that Morphius is saying he's still alive effectively.
13:54 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, he tries to wake her up, but I'm momentarily freezer from the fates, and you have this
14:05 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, exclusive access in a sense to these theories, who say we don't rescue, we revenge when she says, but he's alive, can we not just get my son back, and that's not their point, that's not their mission.
14:23 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and you know again we've seen this through at the series they say they can to take action that's not what they do when someone comes to them and asks them to take action they will empower them to do effectively what the fewies want to do you know they're not going to be able to do this but they can have their avatar being the one taking out.
14:44 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Morpheus, even though there's nothing to take revenge over, Morpheus never laid a hand on Daniel.
14:49 --> 14:53 [SPEAKER_01]: That was what Pock did, that's what Loki did.
14:54 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_01]: He was given the boy back and I guess that's the machinations behind the scenes that suppose is what got Daniel back into the realm of the dreaming.
15:03 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And he did originally say that he would come and take her son at some point in the future, so she does blame him for it, but seeing that Daniel is alive here in some form.
15:14 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Almost breaks the spell.
15:16 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_01]: They're almost breaks the action.
15:17 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I suppose and bush following this dream Tells everybody else in the room there that he needs to go and take care of Lysa.
15:26 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_01]: He needs to go back into the Into the World of the Living and attend to hip-alight.
15:32 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's it.
15:33 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
15:33 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_03]: He says he he says he needs to attend to hip-alight a whole and it's like came is
15:41 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And what do you actually mean by a 10, which is also meant to kill her?
15:46 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
15:46 --> 15:51 [SPEAKER_03]: As he says, any threat to the dreaming must be destroys.
15:51 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And I like it here where he goes in all menacing and I like the fact that
15:58 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_03]: good old Henrietta, tempers him here.
16:01 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_03]: In part because, you know, she has put up that physical protection ring with hip alighters lippy around her.
16:10 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, I think she tempers him, she says, it wasn't her who put you in this mess.
16:16 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_03]: It was you.
16:16 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why the fates are after you.
16:19 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_03]: It's because of the blood
16:23 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_03]: on your hands from killing another one of the endless, your son.
16:28 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And she says, we're all here for the same reason.
16:34 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_03]: We've all lost a child.
16:36 --> 16:44 [SPEAKER_03]: The three of them, including Henrietta, but equally and more personally to this, is Hippolyta is.
16:44 --> 16:45 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why she's here.
16:46 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And ultimately,
16:52 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Effectively, she tempers him persuades him not to kill her because the last thing he needs is for Daniel to know that he killed his mother Exactly exactly yeah, and so I love the sequence of the veterans and and kind of just Henrietta's
17:11 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_03]: loyalty really to.
17:13 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_03]: In a sense, herself, you know, like she says, well, I've always had a thing on the side with the fate.
17:19 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_03]: They asked me to do something that I do is, you know, why have been a life for two years?
17:24 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_03]: And they keep me in a wage, effectively, or as a kind of long life.
17:30 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_03]: And while at the same time, I would do stuff for you for the same thing, you know, and they have their own relationship.
17:36 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And in some respects, actually Henry S's relationship with them is very transactional, but I just kind of liked how it came across here.
17:45 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:45 --> 17:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And she felt very sagey.
17:47 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_01]: She absolutely did, I guess that's why you're calling her by her full name instead of calling her mad at me.
17:52 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:52 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:53 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely love this moment.
17:55 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_01]: You're totally right.
17:56 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a moment to stay the hand of Morpheus, so she can explain to him why he shouldn't murder a human.
18:06 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to spell any more blood.
18:08 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_01]: This is your fault, Mothers.
18:10 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_01]: She is not responsible for what happened.
18:12 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_01]: All you're doing is putting down another symptom effectively.
18:15 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So it is great that we have, how do you hear doing this?
18:18 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And I love that her reappearances, this massive moment that makes Morpheus reconsider everything he's been thinking.
18:26 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's not a vengeful guard, but he was a bag to take vengeance on the person that isn't responsible for everything that's happened.
18:33 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, really enjoyed that.
18:34 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was a real good moment.
18:36 --> 18:50 [SPEAKER_03]: I think the other thing that we should just quickly point out is, as I say, is Nula leaves Ferry to come to defend the dreaming.
18:50 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Because, again, I think there's another really nice little moment here between her and Clarican, you know, where he's kind of saying he is nothing without her.
19:01 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_03]: He's kind of anxious for her, because she is family after all, and, you know,
19:09 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_03]: to everyone else it goes I'm nothing but at least to you I'm family and it's kind of sweet but then it also becomes kind of funny because of his own ego where she says well you could come with me and I think it was but then
19:26 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_03]: the both of us could die and who would be here to remember you buy it and I just think that's the most perfect cleric in line effort in fact as I say this passage of writing and just that the little phrase is that Kate came out of both Nula and cleric and are just really special for me and they're just almost like
19:55 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Comedy in a little faint sprinkling of magic comedy fairy justice in this kind of really quite witty episodes yeah and actually it made me even more kind of like
20:10 --> 20:15 [SPEAKER_03]: and joy-chloric and as a character in this show throughout.
20:16 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_03]: He is self-absorbed, he is an ego-maniac really, but nonetheless, Newler is his sister, his family, and
20:29 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_03]: he likes the fact that she gives him attention.
20:33 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's just something that I know of it.
20:35 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_03]: But also that he appreciates that in that moment.
20:39 --> 20:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's kind of sweet, and she does understand that.
20:41 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, because she smiles, and she thinks him and so on.
20:45 --> 20:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think he's able to express that anything more deeply that that that he cares about her because if she's not there and no one will care about him.
20:54 --> 20:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think even again, this is another nod to the storytelling thing.
20:58 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, you know, I do all these stupid things.
21:00 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I drink too much asleep at the wrong person exactly the wrong time, which creates these great stories and that's what everybody wants to hear.
21:07 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Who will care about me when I do all those horrible things?
21:10 --> 21:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody, they just want to hear the stories.
21:12 --> 21:12 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what he says.
21:12 --> 21:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So again, another story teller in this world, explaining that thing of having to experience those horrible moments to come up with the great stories to entertain people may not be great for one's own soul.
21:23 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I suppose would be almost the way he's saying it to.
21:26 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_01]: but it is a really good moment.
21:28 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_01]: She does have, as she's leaving, very, she does say goodbye to Queen Titania.
21:33 --> 21:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, Queen Titania is on the right side after her being the one that brought Morpheus out of the dreaming, allowing the kind they wanted to come in an attack, and she realizes there's no stopping Nula, so gives her the sword.
21:48 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.
21:49 --> 21:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I was so glad to go.
21:50 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_03]: I was so glad to go.
21:52 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Right,
21:52 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I was saying to John, this did kind of remind me of that moment in the Lord of the Rings with Ayo and where her character has been pretending to be a man in the army so she can ride in with the heroine in the massive battle against the witch king of Agmar.
22:07 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a whole prophecy that he can't be killed at the hands of a man and she jumps out, rips off her helmet and goes, I am no man and there's
22:14 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That moment can you kind of go, yeah, okay.
22:16 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_01]: That didn't really work.
22:17 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But look, I'll take it.
22:18 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: It's an epic.
22:18 --> 22:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
22:19 --> 22:24 [SPEAKER_01]: This moment where Nula's saying goodbye to Queen Titania.
22:24 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_01]: She says, I will not allow you to write a debattle and pause for a beta-millisecond, and then goes,
22:30 --> 22:34 [SPEAKER_01]: With that, my soul hurts more than a day soared and gives her this massive sword to take into battle.
22:34 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like it's part of a prophecy, sometimes because the show has been condensed as much as it is.
22:39 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_01]: They have to get from point date to point at point B.
22:42 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_01]: We know point B later on in the episode, this is really important that she has a massive sword in her hand.
22:47 --> 22:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Nula only does one of the thing in this episode, so it was really important to get her from being at a party in fairy with the glamor on to getting to being in the dreaming with that sword.
22:59 --> 23:05 [SPEAKER_01]: out of there is what it did just have that moment where it did make me smile um thinking that doesn't really work together.
23:05 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah well it's almost trying to sort of eek out the fact that there's been that tension between them so they well is this going to be a confrontation but ultimately then she gives her a weapon
23:19 --> 23:26 [SPEAKER_03]: to ride in to defend the dreaming and she has become an ally rather than an obstacle.
23:26 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so yeah, I mean, but I know exactly what you mean, it's kind of like, if
23:33 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_03]: there had been space here.
23:35 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that relationship would have been much better evolved.
23:40 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
23:40 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It was at the course of the the episode.
23:42 --> 23:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Just even even a moment of her going, oh, I really made that bad decision by taking your necklaces and calling more fiercely.
23:50 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but she's the queen as well.
23:51 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
23:51 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
23:51 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_03]: So like, you know, the queen's never wrong.
23:54 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_01]: True.
23:54 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Very true.
23:55 --> 23:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she just wasn't going to say that.
23:56 --> 23:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they would never never say that.
23:57 --> 23:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think.
23:59 --> 24:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Just give her the, give her the story and everything's left on said.
24:02 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's what I guess.
24:03 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I'm not a storyteller.
24:06 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_01]: But the rest of the episode really is dedicated to our next point, which is dream accepts his face.
24:13 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Once back in the land of the dreaming after that conversation with Hetti, Dream tells the rest of his friends that he is going to go to the furthest part of the realm to meet with the furies.
24:28 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a really emotional moment.
24:30 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of moments over the next couple of episodes, which in any other show, if the show had gone on as long as it should for a five seasons, these moments would mean probably even more.
24:40 --> 24:55 [SPEAKER_01]: If you've read the comic books, you spent eight or nine years with these characters or many, many decades if you've read them over and over again, at a moment where Dream is telling Lucien how much she means to me thanking her for everything that she's done, where he's praising Corinthian for becoming the person that he's become.
24:55 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Those moments are really big moments when he's tanking Matthew or when Matthew's saying he will sacrifice himself to stay with his Lord He doesn't care if he will die at the same time.
25:05 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to go with them.
25:06 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are all really big Really impactful moments and I think they are served very well here in the app.
25:13 --> 25:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I think so.
25:14 --> 25:21 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I really like all these good buyers to be honest I do like the fact that you know, I like
25:22 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_03]: that Lucien is an opportunity for me to say thank you for everything always.
25:28 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, that's his closest confidence, both the family and Matthew is one of the others and Matthew's response is different.
25:40 --> 25:48 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, in the sense that more of his wants to send them away somewhere so that they are safe, that's how as an endless he's
25:48 --> 25:59 [SPEAKER_03]: change, but Matthew wants to stay with him and go to finish this, you know, they have absolutely faith in Morpheus resolving this in some way.
26:00 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And so you know the goodbyes are great, it's also tense with tragedy with what's to come and I do like it when Morpheus says, well I must confront
26:14 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_03]: And again, a bit like with Kane at the start around what do you mean by a 10 to hit the life to hold it?
26:21 --> 26:23 [SPEAKER_03]: You have them saying, well, what does that mean?
26:23 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_03]: You are coming back on you or does this mean you're not coming back.
26:28 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_03]: So I kind of like they kind of play with that.
26:31 --> 26:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
26:31 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Joe, again, with the kind of the more ethereal sort of nature of Lord Morpheus's tongue, I guess.
26:40 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
26:40 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_03]: How he speaks.
26:41 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel that there was a general in the British Arby and World War one who was quoted as saying that he was going over the top, but he wasn't saying he was going to his death, even though he knew he was.
26:51 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like that's this is kind of the way that Morpheus is talking here.
26:55 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_01]: He's saying I'm just going off with the other end.
26:57 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't you worry about it?
27:01 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
27:02 --> 27:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he hasn't really answered my question there.
27:06 --> 27:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think they're trying to stop him from making these Proclamations because they all know and they all want to get a real goodbye with Morpheus Bush He wants to have that moment where he's telling them not to worry about him He wants to worry about them for once
27:20 --> 27:25 [SPEAKER_01]: but it is Matthew that holds on, and he's really clearly asking questions of Morphias.
27:25 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He's clearly saying, do you expect to come back from here?
27:28 --> 27:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And you see tears forming in Morphias' eyes when he's saying, no, I don't expect to come back, and Matthew goes with him.
27:35 --> 27:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, absolutely, and to this far edge of the dreaming where he meets with the fates, you know, and they are fateful.
27:46 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_03]: It's time, they say.
27:48 --> 27:51 [SPEAKER_03]: We can't leave until our task is done.
27:52 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Our avatar is ripping your world apart, you know, you see a hip-alighter, sort of.
27:56 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Slicing through the the earth of the dreaming and splitting it, causing a fisher to run towards the palace.
28:05 --> 28:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so you see pieces of the palace falling.
28:08 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no absolutely.
28:09 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So I take this edge of the dreaming this this place that more pieces standing in.
28:13 --> 28:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I take it that this was.
28:14 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_01]: one of the first and earliest parts of the dream in that he created.
28:18 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I would think that that's what it is.
28:20 --> 28:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a terror that's in ruins.
28:23 --> 28:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So it feels like it's an old dream.
28:25 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Something like a god.
28:26 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's what I thought.
28:29 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was something like that.
28:31 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Or maybe it's something
28:34 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_03]: you know like with nightmares that side of the dreaming or something it is close to the nightmare part of the dreaming realm and I don't know but yeah it certainly could do with a spruce or and for sure my friend got right there and
28:52 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_03]: But I do like the fact, you know, sort of speaking with the fates, it's almost incessant, they have a mission, they have a job and that's what they focus on.
29:02 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, more of you say, as you won't be satisfied with anything left really when he starts to realize, you know, and then dawn on him how, in a sense, this, this will go.
29:14 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's very
29:22 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Ultimately, then more fierce asks Matthew to go back to the palace in order to bring his sister death to him.
29:34 --> 29:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, he says, ask my sister to join me here.
29:40 --> 29:42 [SPEAKER_03]: a new Matthew weight with the authors.
29:43 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_03]: So actually having then his sister there, you know, again, it changes the dynamic.
29:49 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Does it become more fateful, do I say it?
29:52 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Because she's there going, you could have left like your brother destruction.
29:57 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_03]: And there's so many things that you could have
30:04 --> 30:05 [SPEAKER_03]: die here.
30:05 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, even the fact that she goes to the palace to begin with, and she says, well, I'll wait here.
30:11 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, actually, the destiny is in dreams hands.
30:16 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
30:17 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_03]: He is the one that needs to make the call.
30:20 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, and you put on destiny is on to face.
30:22 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:23 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like,
30:24 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_03]: You have him having all these feelings running through, you know, feeling guilty every sun.
30:29 --> 30:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I failed my son twice once when I did not help him and once when I did.
30:35 --> 30:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And so all of this is swirling around in more fuses mind, you know, he's
30:41 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_03]: playing it out with death in a sense, but he comes round to the fact that I will not let them destroy the dreaming.
30:51 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_03]: There is a price for what I have done as he reaches to take death's hand.
30:57 --> 31:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it was just really, really nicely done, I thought.
31:00 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I like the fact that at the same time you have new la effectively slaying the avatar.
31:06 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_03]: of the fates and you have goldie in the waking world sort of turning to sand as he reforms back in in the dreaming.
31:17 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that's a really cool little touches.
31:20 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I just I love that scene with Delirium carrying egg and walking down the road streets with Gildian and realising nobody's seen this in a small gargile flying a beige before, so she turns her into a balloon and then he disappears because back into the dreaming.
31:32 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I love this, you know, again, this is the storytelling that's so evident within the San Man, this is more of your accepting, his face, he's accepting what he's done, he doesn't want anybody else to pay for it, he wants to pay for what he believes his slices, it's not about anybody else here, it's not about whether he can get out of this or not, it's all about these 600 choices he could make.
31:55 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Death says to him, I've seen you lower than this, I've seen you in more instrumentable situations and you've made decisions to get out of there.
32:02 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Morpheus is choosing his own fate here.
32:06 --> 32:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That is the reason why it's not in Destiny's books.
32:10 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the reason why everything leads to this moment is because Morpheus is saying, This is my time to die.
32:16 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the moment where the story ends.
32:18 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_01]: This is how it will go, and that's why he takes the hand of death.
32:22 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not there to be protected by Marv Punkrenhead with his machine gun, he's not there to have his friends down in front of him in a line, going don't take our master, it's not even for the fights to put their hands on him and take him, it's for him to accept his death.
32:36 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_01]: because he wants to, he is making his decision to do so.
32:40 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_01]: He says to death, I am tired.
32:42 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's almost if you can read into it that if he had lived, if he had chosen to stay on, that would eat him up inside and therefore eat up the dreaming.
32:52 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He is not in a longer able to accomplish the work, accomplish the jobs that he asset out from self, so he's willing to accept this is the time for him to move on.
33:01 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
33:03 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Be a really big moment.
33:05 --> 33:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I have to just call out Tom Sturge in this moment here.
33:08 --> 33:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel so sorry for watching these scenes as the rain gets heavier and heavier.
33:13 --> 33:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Any standards there for what?
33:14 --> 33:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Almost have been days on end.
33:16 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And even so, but even throws off his coach that stands there and just a shirt and you can see him shivering in the cold rain while he's saying his lines to Karabbe, how about he supplies death while he's having those conversations with you.
33:32 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_01]: You can see him shivering.
33:33 --> 33:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess the dialogue was we recorded afterwards because you can't hear a word of it as an as voice, but
33:40 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But well done Tom Stewart, it's a massive scene, a massive moment, and he carried it off so well, I thought I would bring it in.
33:46 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:46 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think it's really good as well, then, you know, it goes to sort of bright white.
33:52 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_03]: I do like the, you know, you have delirium recognizing that
33:56 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_03]: he's gone, with Goldie turning to Sand, and you have hip-alighter waking up, and I mean this I thought was, again, a really like, hectic in this episode, and I like the fact that hip-alighter wakes up, you know, still alive, it's only a
34:14 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_03]: It's only her avatar that has been killed in the dreaming, slain, and she asks, what's happened?
34:22 --> 34:27 [SPEAKER_03]: And Hettie's quite massive of facts about it, she says, you've got what you wanted.
34:27 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_03]: He's dead, the dream king, and, you know, she's inquires after her son, and
34:35 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Henrietta just says there's no guessing Daniel back after what you've done and it's kind of really interesting it almost feels as I say it just feels like Henrietta's being this kind of balance that's your stist element here.
34:53 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_03]: and it is just really interesting in terms of phrases that it seems quite absolute really now for both Hippolyta Hall as well, you know, and so I just thought it was a really interesting
35:10 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_03]: little part of this ending.
35:13 --> 35:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, and the fact that it echoes the conversation with Morpheus, where she told Morpheus don't kill Hepaletta Hall or you won't be able to use Daniel as your the new dream king when you die.
35:24 --> 35:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And then she just told Hepaletta that she can't see her suddenly more because she killed Morpheus.
35:28 --> 35:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So interestingly, one of them would have the outcome that the child wouldn't be able to to see them again, or wouldn't want to see them again.
35:35 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So what an interesting way of doing that.
35:37 --> 35:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
35:38 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Very good.
35:40 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of which, that is our final point, Daniel is the new Dream King.
35:46 --> 35:54 [SPEAKER_01]: just touching back quickly to him as a baby in the arms of Corinthian and then that's when he sent off to the throne room for protection.
35:55 --> 35:59 [SPEAKER_01]: They're all sitting there playing around with the playing around with the big big sea through bowl.
35:59 --> 36:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody can get it to work but happens to touch the hands of Daniel and he suddenly has this vision.
36:04 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the orb explodes in color in the same way that did when Morpheus was remaking the dreaming after he returned from
36:12 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_01]: from his captivity.
36:14 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And I love that before he left Morpheus as them.
36:17 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll have a conversation with them and they're all going to go and it's baby.
36:21 --> 36:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah exactly.
36:23 --> 36:26 [SPEAKER_01]: But after he dies, we see Daniel appearing.
36:26 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, adults.
36:27 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
36:28 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_03]: New Lord of the Dreaming is there.
36:30 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
36:31 --> 36:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And like it is, says,
36:33 --> 36:35 [SPEAKER_03]: He's not Daniel anymore, that's true.
36:35 --> 36:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And this is the new Lord of the Dreaming, which is really, really good.
36:41 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, really, really interesting.
36:43 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Because the new Lord of the Dreaming is played by Jacob Anderson, who was Greyworm in Game of Thrones.
36:49 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
36:50 --> 36:53 [SPEAKER_03]: More recently, it was in interview with the Vampire.
36:53 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_03]: David is on TV.
36:55 --> 36:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Louis DuPont de Lac, a fantastic role in that show.
36:58 --> 37:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Loved him for the two seasons that we've seen.
37:01 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, he's been fantastic at that show really, really good.
37:04 --> 37:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So great to see him here.
37:06 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And this was one of the things that I was trying to protect, John from seeing all the way back to August.
37:12 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I think when the episodes released, as soon as it was, all of the other groups were going, you should watch Sandman, what's the end of Sandman?
37:18 --> 37:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think they even changed the picture of the Sandman on Netflix to Jacob Anderson in the robes.
37:27 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Luckily, John hadn't seen it up until the episode, so he was nice to see him.
37:32 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, I'm kind of rarely on Facebook, and if I am, it's now more for people that I really do know.
37:38 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And no, he's stuff I've kind of moved away from that, so I just missed it.
37:43 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
37:43 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_03]: And delighted.
37:45 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm delighted.
37:46 --> 37:49 [SPEAKER_03]: I know I'm moving on on the other stuff I missed it, so I just missed it.
37:49 --> 37:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, I just know how much you love Jacob Anderson and it did that.
37:53 --> 37:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I said, what a great way to take you home.
37:55 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
37:56 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_03]: It just shows you how much the algorithm knows me because it's not throwing this stuff up at me.
38:01 --> 38:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
38:02 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Even though I'm looking at things all the time, so yes, not the same.
38:06 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Very fortunate in that sense.
38:07 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was cool though.
38:09 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Really great to see Jacob Anderson here.
38:11 --> 38:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I know we will get him back in the next episode for the final of the story in the episode 11.
38:17 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Any other notes in the other points you want to talk about that we didn't mention John from the episode.
38:21 --> 38:27 [SPEAKER_03]: The only one I kind of liked was just the fact that Morpheus does rescue the Griffin.
38:28 --> 38:32 [SPEAKER_03]: You have Wyvern and the different guardians of the palace.
38:32 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And Nula's boon is for Morpheus to return to the dreaming and he gets back just in time to kind of save.
38:41 --> 39:09 [SPEAKER_03]: The elderly Griffin who's kind of been aged by the words of the fates and I like that I kind of enjoy it just seeing that human dare I say it side are of more fears because I think one of the main aspects here in the second season is the notion that there has been a change about the dream king
39:09 --> 39:17 [SPEAKER_03]: And then to some extent, it's how is that embossed in the chats that he's had for Daniel, if it's a tool, if it's all.
39:17 --> 39:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So it'll be really interesting.
39:19 --> 39:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:19 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
39:20 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
39:20 --> 39:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess we'll find out in the next episode.
39:22 --> 39:26 [SPEAKER_01]: John, overall, what do you think of Episode 10 of Season 2 of the Science Man?
39:26 --> 39:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I really, really enjoyed this give it four and a half on kindly nightmares out of five.
39:32 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I just really, really well done quite short, but nice and sweet and, um, I think, you know, again, you could probably see episode 10 and 11 as a single, um,
39:44 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_03]: episode.
39:45 --> 39:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just really, really well done.
39:48 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
39:49 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Fantastic.
39:50 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's find out what some of our fellow dreamers thoughts with our feedback on this episode.
39:54 --> 40:00 [SPEAKER_01]: They sent their emails into feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or popped in over to our Facebook group at facebook.com.
40:00 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Slash Group slash tvpodcast industries.
40:03 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_01]: There are posts up there with all of our spoiler posts for all the other shows that we're covering, but we know it's been a while.
40:07 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Since some of them put their thoughts in there for the salmon man.
40:10 --> 40:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So they may not remember what they put in there.
40:12 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_01]: At what first up, we got an email in from Coffee and Vodka with his thoughts.
40:16 --> 40:20 [SPEAKER_01]: On episode 10, he says greetings, fell out, done, and dusted defenders.
40:20 --> 40:22 [SPEAKER_01]: The dream is dead, long live the dream.
40:22 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_01]: All the feels, as this reconstructed telling of the last tale of Morpheus comes to an end.
40:27 --> 40:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So much lush and melancholy beauty, but what else would you expect in the dreaming and the death of her master?
40:33 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_01]: The menace of lighter and the kindly ones, now there's a band name.
40:36 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_01]: was undeniable in every sense of the word, save for that of a too light-delivered sword swing, death, and dream's final conversation was every bit as affecting as the source material, and Daniel caught a fine figure of a new member of the endless.
40:49 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, Delirium and Barnabas are back together again, so there's that.
40:53 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Short of writing a ulogy, this was a fallously acted produced and presented blew me feast for the senses.
40:59 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_01]: 5 outgun pumpkins, wages of kindness, on glamorous beheadings and sated fates out of 5, peace and take care, coffee and vodka.
41:08 --> 41:10 [SPEAKER_03]: great stuff, coffin vodka.
41:10 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that would be a good band, lighter and the kindly ones.
41:14 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, no, this was as well.
41:16 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_03]: I think really just nicely done in terms of the last tell of Morpheus.
41:21 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, for someone has actually not read the comics.
41:23 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't think he was going to die.
41:25 --> 41:36 [SPEAKER_03]: And so he is dead here now, you know, short of anything miraculous happening in episode 11.
41:36 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_03]: or just the fact that there is an eternity about the endless ones hence the name that there is this sense of oh that is kind of a hard full stop here you know and so I like it for that as well that it had that notion to do that as I say
41:56 --> 41:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so yeah, really well told.
41:59 --> 42:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, I think the whole series has had a melancholic beauty to it and and a lush gloom in the sense to this.
42:09 --> 42:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
42:09 --> 42:13 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, really totally agree with the coffian vodka.
42:13 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
42:14 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Good stuff.
42:14 --> 42:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much, coffee vodka.
42:15 --> 42:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, thanks, coffee and vodka.
42:17 --> 42:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, over on Facebook, Dr Bob Phillips says, what?
42:20 --> 42:21 [SPEAKER_03]: No, but what?
42:21 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Didn't believe it would happen, or at least not without the end of the endless book dream is gone.
42:26 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like the Queen all over again, at least it's not a Prince Charles ascending to the throne.
42:32 --> 42:44 [SPEAKER_03]: And that Dan Dream, who is differently dreamy, has Superfairy, the original murderer, Iboy, Librarian, and Matt Crow to help him build new worlds.
42:44 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And Delirium has a doggy back,
42:48 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Excellent, Dr. Wobby, I completely agree.
42:51 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I was a, a noble, yes, but noble, yes, but, as well.
42:58 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I love the, the, the, um, new, the super fairy and the cane is the original murder.
43:04 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I boy, I guess, then is that is going to be crazy too, right?
43:08 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And library, of course, is, uh, is Lucy.
43:12 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and Macro is Matthew, is Matthew the Crow.
43:15 --> 43:16 [SPEAKER_03]: That last one is pretty obvious.
43:18 --> 43:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Excellent, thanks Dr. Bob.
43:19 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, Dr. Bob.
43:21 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Also at Facebook, Cassandra Leigh-Anne says this season has been so beautifully done.
43:25 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_01]: The audible version ends at the funeral procession, and I've just hit that point in the comics, so I had an idea what was coming, but need to read on to see what, how they adapted, was definitely not expecting the Wii to show up as grown Daniel New Dream massive squirrel when he did as I made a huge interview of the vampire fan as well.
43:43 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Excellent.
43:45 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Excellent Cassandra.
43:46 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I think there are lots of schools.
43:48 --> 43:54 [SPEAKER_03]: What with Jacob Anderson showing up as the new dreamy dream as Dr. Bob would say?
43:55 --> 43:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
43:55 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
43:57 --> 43:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
43:57 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Dan dream, I guess, is what we have to call them.
44:00 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, Andrew must probably be the right one.
44:02 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Danny, Danny the Dreamer.
44:04 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
44:04 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Andrew.
44:05 --> 44:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, thanks, Andrew.
44:07 --> 44:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Finally, Paul Tien-Chili says, The show goes from heights to heights.
44:12 --> 44:23 [SPEAKER_03]: The inevitability of the death of Morpheus Current incarnation of Dream of the Endless was arguably foretold back at the beginning aka Preludes and Notters.
44:23 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Looking back across the full two seasons of the show and revisiting portions of the comics, it seems clear to me that Neil Gaiman created the framework for more fears to change on top of the irony of having a character who thinks he can't, shouldn't change, but is also in charge of something as variable as dreams.
44:41 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_03]: The Dreaming.
44:42 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I have more thoughts about this which will be in my next episode feedback.
44:47 --> 44:55 [SPEAKER_03]: As Derek alluded to in the podcast for episode 7, we get the return of Mad Hetti, who plays a pivotal role.
44:55 --> 45:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Once again, I can't remember how much of this was from the comics, but it's a good use of an existing character if this was invented for the show.
45:04 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_03]: It also somewhat explains how Hati has managed to stay alive for the better part of four centuries.
45:10 --> 45:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Also, not the last time we'll see her in the season.
45:13 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Also, I'm glad to see pork realized from a few episodes ago that Loki is not a good romantic partner.
45:19 --> 45:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, this is a softer and more self-aware pork than what I remember of the comics, so good on him for getting out and inadvertently telling Loki over to Oden and Thor.
45:29 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't discover that your podcast drink season 1, but I have listened now to your cover of job it and can't remember if Derek explained a bit about death's effect in the comics versus the show.
45:40 --> 45:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And specifically thinking of how she has what is effectively a manic pixie dream girl vibe way before that
45:48 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_03]: term was invented and the show pulls back a bit on that without losing her essential kindness and what can only be described as optimism, which is more for my episode 12 comment.
46:01 --> 46:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously that tone wouldn't work here, but that damping down really makes her a more flexible match to her little brother who has to make a big decision.
46:09 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I was much more existentially sad about this particular ending, but not as gut-punched as the
46:17 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can see that this does feel like a more epic ending or fierceist death was a real surprise and quite brutal in and of itself as well.
46:29 --> 46:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So this moment where we see the decision of more fierce to die, to take the hand of a sister and die does feel massive.
46:39 --> 46:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I think back in our season one coverage when Kirby was introduced as death, I think we're more talking about the casting and how she has that lightness tour which is similar to the comic books, but you're totally right.
46:49 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember back in the day back in the late 80s and early 90s, the amount of people walking around with the t-shirts of death, this cute little girl.
46:56 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_01]: dressed up as death, you know, the real shocking difference from what we'd seen for decades and many of beforehand of the skull with the size coming through killing everybody.
47:07 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_01]: You just don't expect that this as you described a pixie dream girl would be walking around as death being nice to everybody.
47:15 --> 47:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But they've done such a good job with Kirby in the show.
47:18 --> 47:25 [SPEAKER_01]: She's really brought that likeness and brought that humanity and brought that caring nature of the character to life.
47:24 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely, I mean, it just speaks to, I think, Neil Gaiman's reimagining of characters and well-known characters, well-known stories and how he can just refract the reflection of them in different ways and make them so good, so fresh and vibrant and updases really in a sense.
47:46 --> 47:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, I think to your point Paul as well, totally agree around Mad Hetti, I really enjoyed her in this episode.
47:56 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, she felt like a profit in some respects.
48:00 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think, yeah, it was just the pivotal role that she plays like you mentioned.
48:06 --> 48:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Just really,
48:08 --> 48:15 [SPEAKER_03]: felt meaningful to this story in this episode so yeah definitely agree with that.
48:15 --> 48:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Great stuff thanks Paul.
48:16 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely thanks so much Paul for your feedback and thanks everybody for your feedback so far on this episode one more to go in the main season which we'll be talking about later this week.
48:25 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Please stick with us, and you can subscribe to the podcast over on TV podcast industries.com, the main podcast feed is there for TV podcast industries, and also our Sandman feed, which has the DevBode Detectors and the first two seasons of Sandman there as well.
48:38 --> 48:45 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be back next time for the Sandman Season 2 episode 11, a tale of graceful ends.
48:45 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I can't wait to be back with episode 11 of the Sandman until next time of course fellow Dreamers keep watching keep listening and of course keep dreaming bye bye