[00:00:00] This is the Pennyworth Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're talking about Pennyworth Season 2 Episode 9 Paradise Lost
[00:01:07] What are you going to do about that? We're American citizens. There'll be consequences for this. Your renegades, desperados shouldn't think they'll make too much of a fuss if you disappear, do you? Is this what you're fighting for, is it? Sadism and barbarity? Cruelty and strength I'd call it.
[00:01:26] But yes, that's what we're fighting for. Do you know why gentlemen? Because it works. Welcome back fellow governors, fellow Gothamites to TV Podcast Industries and the Pennyworth Podcast. We are on to Episode 9 of Season 2 of Pennyworth and this is the episode Paradise Lost.
[00:02:09] I am one of your hosts, John. I'm your host, Derek. The penultimate episode of Pennyworth. Yay, we finally have an answer. There's two more episodes left. This is one of them, another one out of this way.
[00:02:19] Yes, and possibly as we discussed in our last episode, possibly a Season 3. Don't quote me on that for sure, but certainly it was floated around by the showrunner and writer Bruno Heller on an online virtual Comic-Con. Yeah, that was pretty cool. Hopefully we'll get a Season 3.
[00:02:44] It'll be really interesting to see if they change things up completely. It seems like the war is coming to an end one way or the other next week. Yes, absolutely. Will it end in Storm Cloud being dropped or will Alfie and his gang save the day?
[00:03:01] Well if Storm Cloud was dropped that would absolutely be the reason why everybody leaves England, right? Yeah, definitely. Get on the plane and run away. Need to fly off, but thanks to those of you who are joining us on the Pennyworth Podcast
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[00:04:16] to edit all of the episodes that we're doing at the moment. We're currently covering Invincible, the Image Comics animated series from Robert Kirkman. That's over on Amazon Prime. We're also covering the Marvel Comics TV show Falcon and the Winter Soldier and
[00:04:30] the Marvel Comics series each week at the moment. So three different shows from three different comics companies every week. So lots of editing and lots of coffee being drank. Yes, we just had a new trailer drop for Loki that we will be covering in June.
[00:04:45] And we have just also finished our coverage of WandaVision. So the nine episodes of WandaVision are available to download and listen to and watch the show. But I think we should get on to our spoiler filled review of episode nine of Pennyworth Paradise Lost.
[00:05:07] Derek, what are some of the episode details? Well, the episode was written by Hannah Boschie. She wrote episode five of this season as well. So on board for the whole season of Pennyworth. The episode was directed by Rob Bailey, one of the most prolific directors of Pennyworth.
[00:05:22] Over his time he's directed episode five and episode nine of season one so three and four of this season as well. So has done lots and lots of Pennyworth episodes. Yeah, good stuff to returning writers and directors for this episode. Exactly.
[00:05:37] Jon, do you want to tell us what they gave us in the penultimate episode of Pennyworth with your synopsis for Pennyworth? Season two, episode nine, Paradise Lost. Sure. With less than 48 hours to go until the English League surrender
[00:05:51] or face annihilation from the destination of a storm cloud device over London, Alfie, Thomas and Martha concoct a plan to infiltrate Raven Union headquarters with Dave Boy and Lucius to steal Project Storm Cloud. Meanwhile, Bette and Peggy Sykes also infiltrate the headquarters of the Raven Union
[00:06:09] with Vicky de Frenche to rescue Francis Gaunt and to get to High Chancellor John Salt. As Alfie and the gang enter the mouth of the dragon, their plan goes wrong and they are captured, beaten and imprisoned. While Lucius, Dave Boy and Thomas languish in their cells,
[00:06:24] Alfie is reintroduced to his T-Trolley father who tries to persuade him to join the Raven Union side. Failing to convince Alfie, Salt informs Mr Pennyworth that they will enact Plan B, Deception. Back in their cells, they have a fortuitous encounter with Bette, Peggy and Vicky de Frenche
[00:06:42] who have rescued Francis Gaunt. As Bette and the girls make their way to Salt's living quarters, Alfie and the boys attempt to escape again and fail. In front of John Salt, he gives them a second chance in the ranks of the Raven Union but is rebuffed.
[00:06:56] Left with his father, Alfie is offered a chance to escape for a third time which they seize. Alfie, Lucius, Dave Boy and Thomas make their way back to London with both the only vial of storm cloud
[00:07:08] and batteries not included daddy who knows more than he is letting on. That closing scene with Mr P in the back of the car was hilarious.
[00:07:19] Absolutely. It reminded me of a dog with its head out at the back of the car window just enjoying the wind whistling through its ears and for sure.
[00:07:29] For some reason I had the Beverly Hill billies in my mind with Granny on the rocking chair in the back of the car. I almost, that's probably the reason but that was what was in my head.
[00:07:39] It was just the look on his face where he's like, it's so cool. I love it. I love it. Okay we will admit our way of covering this episode is completely broken the way we normally cover it with Alfie the boys and a job,
[00:07:54] the English League and normally we have Raven Union but as everything is coalescing together so are our points for this episode. They really are. But let's kick off with Alfie the boys and the job because there is a job.
[00:08:05] We have three different boys this time. We have Alfie, Dave boy, Thomas and Lucius on the job off to Raven headquarters to take back Storm Cloud. What I like about this job is that they don't really have a plan.
[00:08:18] It's like Thomas they're going well I can get us inside the doors by saying I'll bring your lost scientist back to you. And then once we get inside we'll steal Project Storm Cloud. That's it.
[00:08:29] I thought it was pretty bold actually rocking up to the front gates in a Cadillac with two massive American flags flying and certainly I kind of feel that at least Alfie would be someone of interest to the wider Raven Union They know who he is. Exactly.
[00:08:51] So I thought it was pretty bold and the way in which they rocked up and managed to get into Raven Union headquarters to deliver Lucius the kidnapped scientist delivering back. I found it interesting that Salt said that's strange as though getting their scientist back would be strange.
[00:09:14] But I guess as a the fact it's strange that he's in CIA hands because it's the cover of the CIA with Thomas Wayne. That is the main reason for them to be able to just simply rock up to the front gate.
[00:09:31] He kind of flags the diplomatic pass really. Exactly. We've got to think that Salt suspected that at the very least Lucius would have been debriefed by the CIA. I know the CIA kind of are supporting Raven Union.
[00:09:43] Well they're kind of taking a hands off approach more than anything else not really supporting the Raven Union just assuming they're going to win basically.
[00:09:50] So you would have assumed that Salt will go but hang on a second now they're going to know all about start Project Storm Cloud because they've had him in their possession for about a week or two days.
[00:09:58] You would have guessed that this wouldn't have worked as a plan. I do like how it played out the kind of movements of it. Everything seems to be going quite well.
[00:10:06] They get their way pretty easily down to the basement levels into the science division and take Storm Cloud out just by knocking out a few guards basically. Yeah absolutely. I liked how when Martha Thomas and Lucius come to Alfie's Alphys Mums house.
[00:10:26] I like that there's kind of that oceans 11 scene where Alfie plays how they're going to do it in his head. Yes. And when they get to the Raven Union that's how it plays out. I thought that was quite a nice little touch.
[00:10:39] I also just as a side I love the fact that Dave Boyd and Mrs. Pennyworth seem to be rubbing each other up the wrong way. You know kind of shouting about fingers of shortbread. And obviously I think they're getting on one another's nerves a bit too much here.
[00:10:56] So I really like those kind of little sort of very just a little humdrum playouts that they do around normal life.
[00:11:06] You could imagine a family or you know having an argument over we've taken the last two chocolate biscuits or something like it's all that kind of stuff and it feels really kind of grounded and normal. Yeah.
[00:11:18] And given the craziness of everything else it actually plays off really nicely I think.
[00:11:25] And but for me the whole storm cloud vile that's down in the lab there because that looks very comic bookie with the blue glow it being held in kind of a stasis and electrical chamber and so on.
[00:11:39] So I really I really like this seeing how it plays out but it goes south very very quickly and and they're kind of confronted in the lobby of the headquarters.
[00:11:51] You do have that nice little standoff moment with Alfred saying well I'll drop drop the vile and salt simply just going well you're the one in charge and think of the innocent people in the local vicinity.
[00:12:05] And so they get you know they get arrested effectively beaten up or a good dropping good and then thrown into the cells at the the Raven Union headquarters.
[00:12:19] The one thing I really enjoyed here which is maybe a little sadistic I guess and was I thought John salts action in this episode felt really really good and it felt real and visceral and that moment where he hits Alfred with the end of the telephone after Alfred has spoken to a Z's to the fact we say you know game over
[00:12:43] yeah and it felt really vicious really spiteful and so on yeah and then later on in the episode that there's almost a replay of this but with a bit more comedy where he spits into the palm of his hand and slaps really hard Dave Boyd or derogatory terms about his mother.
[00:13:03] And but I really kind of like that they've seen this physical side of John salt you know he's he's the thinker he's the philosopher he's the manipulator he puts in place plans he doesn't really get his hands dirty but you know with this.
[00:13:21] Plan in action he's involved in a broiled in the middle of it and I love the fact that he's totally on a word that there are there is another plan that involves him as well that's going on at the same time with yet in Peggy Sykes and but yeah that there's a really nice.
[00:13:42] Yeah it feels brutal than being sort of locked up here and you have that moment where he says you know Thomas is saying is this what you're trying to achieve you know and violence and brutality and salts just yes they are and because they work you know ultimately so yeah there was nice little I think that.
[00:14:04] Moment was really at really good but I like that that's the one I chose as the quote for the opening of the episode excellent yeah it's a good it's a good moment to really shows you that effectively he wants to rule with an iron fist that is absolutely the plan of salt here he doesn't want everything.
[00:14:20] Everybody to be able to do what they want to once every to do the things that he wants them to do in his in his mind and his decisions and everybody should follow orders and every should follow what he wants them to do so yeah he's showing his true side here we got a glimpse of it in the last episode where he.
[00:14:38] Banks is fist on the table at the negotiations with the English league and you know up till then and certainly in this episode you know he's been playing me can mild it's like I'm doing your bidding and so on but now he has.
[00:14:54] Absolute power here with the Raven Union Council it seems like that power has extended to dominance over the military where you felt there was some sort of.
[00:15:07] Not resistance to him but it was a counterbalance to the council side so that this is and that this is really is true colors coming out you know this this kind of.
[00:15:18] Sociopathic manipulator and control freak basically and I think that's what it is it's control freakery it's that everything has been so meticulously plan.
[00:15:31] And we see this here with the plan be a bit as well that's I guess with with Alphys dad yeah you know he puts plans in motion and.
[00:15:44] The meticulous and very well thought out and they normally work yeah I suppose remember the way we were introduced to John salt was with him murdering George Orwell yeah in that first time we saw him effectively so.
[00:15:55] So he has always been a kind of an evil guy but now he's got the power as well which is really the corrupting part you know that his troops.
[00:16:02] Are all wearing the same uniforms and no longer an army uniforms to now in the Raven Union uniforms and they look like.
[00:16:08] Like Matt's effect yeah that's very much the side they look like the henchmen of the villain now so so yes we are definitely getting more comic bookie.
[00:16:17] Add these as the series goes on as it should be you know it is based on DC comics characters of course so as you expect that yeah the plan here from from John salt and using Alphys father basically so if he's father definitely gone completely evil even though.
[00:16:34] You know first season he was the kind of big bad at the end he was the one willing to blow up.
[00:16:39] The queen effectively for the Raven Union to take over so it's no surprise that he's a bad guy but how bad he is here where he's manipulating his own son in order to enact the plan of.
[00:16:52] John salt even there's even a moment where and Alphys talking to about how ashamed his mom would be of him and but she'd still probably forgive him and you think he's being on the level about the fact that.
[00:17:03] He wants to see his wife again he does lover but then he says he's willing to let her die because he's willing to let he's willing to watch everybody else lose loved ones so of course is gonna be willing to let her die so.
[00:17:13] Kind of shining a light on the fact that that his final conversation with Alfie there where he allows me to take the gun and shoot some of the guards and isn't on the level so so very much.
[00:17:24] This is the other plan this is the plan B that's it i mean his dad is totally an indoctrinated here. And by salt and it's certainly you know it's it's it's on the face of it the plan is that.
[00:17:42] Alphys dad will convince Alfie to come over to the Raven Union size very dad later looks exactly but. Ultimately that is not the plan because it doesn't work and i there's really interesting moment with luchas fox after alpheus come back from the.
[00:18:00] And rejecting his dad's plan thinking he's a monster i actually thought the way jack bannon acted in that both the surprise of when he sees his dad and the state that he's in.
[00:18:13] And as well as the conversation about his mom and dad is mum going to his his grave every every week and the the betrayal that he would allow this terror bomb to be dropped on her and i thought he played that really really well.
[00:18:32] Yeah but it back in the cell it's i think luchas and i'm just wondering whether at least the group has someone in luchas that recognizes you know why would salt bring.
[00:18:44] And his dad and ask him to come over he know if you know if his dad knows his son knows that alphe won't do that so.
[00:18:54] What's the other play here and we see salt informing as you say and his dad that will have to go with plan B which with the multiple arrests and failed attempts here at then escape i think there's at least you know that this three in total.
[00:19:13] And of which the last one is successful we have alphe and the gang being freed by best and Peggy and then again when they're.
[00:19:23] Arrested it's with his dad who allows Alfred to get his gun to kill the guards and the escape with his dad at the back of it there is this plan B.
[00:19:36] It can only be in my mind anyway something to do with his Darth Vader wheelchair and there is some kind of detonation device or maybe he is the destination device and it knows that he will explode and take the and the vial of storm cloud with him.
[00:19:58] Yeah it seems like it's the from the conversation with luchas that it is just a breakable file drop the file on the ground and explain it goes off but i still wonder if there's something connected with Lord harwoods coffin in London the burial that happened a few weeks ago they were so insistent.
[00:20:13] That the raven union were so insistent that he was buried in London and now they're on the way to London with storm cloud so it makes me wonder whether there's some kind of distribution device there or something.
[00:20:25] That will that still involved in the in the burial of Lord harwood so i just wonder if that's gonna play out in the final episode we'll see there's only one more episode to get.
[00:20:34] Yeah exactly that is the main body of the episode and mostly what's happening with the English league is these guys are effectively carrying out their mission trying to save England from the raven union but there's a couple little things within the English league that aren't included in this just i like the idea of Martha.
[00:20:51] Kind of sitting around waiting for news and being involved with the Z's the two of them sitting there waiting you know for everything to go down for to find out news as to whether.
[00:21:01] I'll be in the boys have been successful or not you know they're just pacing the office effectively at this after Martha and Thomas finally agreed to get married and they have they have their conversation and Thomas puts a good point forward to Martha that if he does get killed.
[00:21:16] What's what she going to tell their child is she gonna tell them that he asked her to marry him.
[00:21:22] But she just went me or is she going to say he went off to go on a major mission and ask me to marry and of course i said yes it's much better story so that's the way he convinces her and i do love that he calls out that he does lover he would have proposed to her maybe in a few years time he's proposing to her now because she's pregnant.
[00:21:44] He's not proposing to her because she's pregnant yeah and she said exactly and you know she says to him all that's better you know you've got me listening i do like the kind of thing that they say between one another that i thought being in love would be more fun seems like it's been a real trial for the two of them.
[00:22:01] Which is really good and then as you say that there is a really nice montage here before they go off to.
[00:22:10] And the raven union headquarters on their mission and this is kind of montage of of them sort of kind of waiting and fidgeting and there's real finality about it this is the last chance.
[00:22:25] You know they're at the people saying bye to one another and there's the whole toasting of new friends i particularly like a z's Dave boy and luchas and having that you know sharing in a whiskey.
[00:22:39] And as these kind of raises a toast to friends and Dave boy you know bit morbidly says all my friends are dead and he says well here's to new friends you know with the three of them i thought that was a real nice little moment but there's a nice montage of of them all kind of.
[00:22:55] You know that calm before the storm of going into the operation which i really really like and this is also pointing out that nobody has nobody in in England at all though other family members nobody else to spend this final time with effectively everybody he knows over in America over in Gotham basically.
[00:23:12] There's a little shout out to Gotham in the episode you do have a day boy once again lamenting the fact they're not in America because right now he could be in Gotham with a with a steak which is where he wants to be.
[00:23:23] And putting the scenes with Martha and on a z's together as he finds out that she's pregnant and i like his reaction to it you know it again we're talking early sixties early to mid sixties.
[00:23:33] And there is this idea that Martha doesn't want to tell anybody that she's pregnant effectively but as he's kind of says well you know any kind of pregnancy during wartime should be celebrated of course you know it's new life coming into a world of war you know.
[00:23:45] I'm liking his ease a lot more this season in this in this role as prime minister he's done some pretty bad things as well this season but he seems less and less like he's falling into mistakes which is what i've seen last season he wasn't.
[00:23:59] So much an antagonist of of Alfie last season as everything he did messed up things for Alfie whereas this season he's much more active character needs much more involved character and everybody else around him which i really like.
[00:24:12] Yeah exactly and and there's also you know that nice moment i think with Alfie and Sandra and as well which it's almost a final moment with Sandra mean it.
[00:24:24] Continues as their relationship has been you know Alfie mugging her off really it's a little awkward because he's been throwing the stones at her father's window.
[00:24:36] And you know tells him to sling his hook basically leave his daughter alone and stop upsetting her basically and but i do like and the fact that Sandra here really you know she just.
[00:24:50] You know she holds a ground challenges him what would you be saying sorry for and you actually get really good sense of Alfred's turmoil here in the you know he says actually that he does love her too.
[00:25:05] To pretend that he wouldn't let her down at some point in the future and that one day he would break her heart and so that's why sorry but.
[00:25:14] It feels like a really defining moment actually without for that in a sense he is a womanizer but he can't do female commitment you can't commit to female for me anyway just you know he's committed to the service of whether it's in the army to his country.
[00:25:32] And you know i guess in the future to the way into their son that he likes that relationship to a service of doing something that maybe is honorable or is justified and it's not that he.
[00:25:48] Hasn't had relationships with women but the commitment side of things like Thomas and Martha doing in terms of committing to marriage to a long term relationship.
[00:25:59] He finds harder to do as a person and i thought that was kind of interesting here and i'm glad that they kind of broach that with Sandra and. You know kind of maybe just shine that light onto Alfred and his personality that you know in a sense maybe.
[00:26:24] It's camaraderie that he prefers rather than long term. Intimate relationships is not that he can't be intimate it's not that he doesn't love women loves his mother he loves you know he loves Sandra and he says that to her but the idea that he would stay.
[00:26:44] Rooted in one place yeah with a person in a relationship is not necessarily him like that's a real lads excuses and it's a it's a real thing like you know i can sleep with everybody i'll never fall in love with you but this feels like a book and to that conversation had in bed with gully's wife.
[00:27:00] Where he was saying the reason why i can be with you and find it easy to be with you because you don't love me.
[00:27:05] And that means you i won't break your heart effectively so the other book and to this actually talking to the person that he is left and dumped a couple of times and cheated on a few times and telling her.
[00:27:16] The reason why i broke up with you effectively and was gonna leave is because i will eventually break your heart in the future and i don't want to do that to you because you love you love with me and i'm in love with you exactly even says we did make love here.
[00:27:30] Which he would never really say that's not something that i'll be would really have those conversations about us once again setting up this idea that you know the offer that we know from comic books is a much older character who's living in the way in household.
[00:27:43] He's only really had one or two major relationships that we know of from the comic books. So while the version in gotham was a bit of a playboy we had some interactions with fish mooney if you remember john season one of gotham.
[00:27:58] He's definitely a ladies man is definitely attractive to other people but the way the jack balance playing this character expect him to be married with kids you know so i like that they're creating the separation as a reason why he wouldn't.
[00:28:10] End of what you know he's already lost someone that he did that he was engaged with doesn't want to lose another person so he's gonna sleep around with anybody as long as they don't fall in love effectively so.
[00:28:19] So i do like that but speaking of other love stories in this episode the disease queen of england relationship seems to be continuing this episode we saw the cheeky kiss last episode when they realize they were going off to die.
[00:28:32] This episode they have another kiss as he's about to turn himself in and the queens off to France i genuinely think there's a bit of a gag in here from brunner heller and from Danny cannon who's one of the creators of the of penny worth.
[00:28:46] I know they're not royalists in the back of my mind and other not big fans of of royalty in england and i feel the way they treat the queen in these episodes is quite funny it feels.
[00:28:57] Completely anti the way you would see Queen Elizabeth all the time like the idea that she wouldn't stand up for country she just. Leg it off to France and threatened and leave the prime minister to deal with it i think is really funny even the idea of.
[00:29:11] The prime minister dating the queen is very funny in its own exactly it feels very awesome powers form of the queen to you know to some degree that she's actually.
[00:29:24] A groovy person it feels more like say princess Margaret and her to the queen where you know it's the big sunglasses it's the socializing it's the hobnobbing and she's she's kind of more.
[00:29:37] Into that and it's kind of an interesting slant on it and i think i mean it works well i like that feels a bit like anarchy yeah little anarchy in terms of the queen and then you know because it's very much no stiff up a lip rod in the back.
[00:29:58] You know duty and service and this is she does that but there's also feelings emotion and she has a libido as well and i know she's been with alphie and now in the moment of desperation i guess at.
[00:30:16] The loss and surrender of the english league you know almost upon them she finds it with a z's yeah i think that's kind of it for the main stuff that's going on with the english league and obviously i'll feed the boys in the job.
[00:30:29] Last kind of section of the episode really is about best and Peggy Sykes taking a vicky to french to salt.
[00:30:36] There are some absolutely great moments to this i love them on the phone with vicky trying to force her to tell salt that you really want some account waiting for the day to see him.
[00:30:47] And that kind of again the stiff upper lip british version with salt on the other end going that makes me rather happy to hear that.
[00:30:55] I think i can make some time in my schedule exactly and for sure that was really really funny i love the fact that you've got Kate in the Sykes house of pain you know watching vicky being forced to speak to john salt in a very sexualized terms.
[00:31:15] And and Kate is just gonna breaking up laughing at yourself that's really good and again these three come straight through the front gate.
[00:31:26] No subterfuge in that sense of sneaking over over the fence or through the wall of the massive headquarters of the raven union has had two attacks in the same day from two completely different groups of normal people like no weaponry involved here as they come into attack effectively.
[00:31:44] But the idea that the psych sisters are pretending to be extra visitors at salt request because he has some some interesting movements planned for the evening effectively.
[00:31:58] I really like that that's that's the way they're playing at these three women arriving three good looking women arriving to two salts headquarters effectively so i should write on up but.
[00:32:08] They have free road of the entire place you know they've got passes and they use them to their advantage which i really really like in this one thing i would say as well the location.
[00:32:21] The internal bits of the and raven headquarters that sort of austere concrete and certainly the lobby bit but even the outside with the gate in the sort of and the guard tower yeah i thought it was really nicely done it feels.
[00:32:38] Proper brutalist and that kind of authoritarian sort of idea you know you think of communist Russia or or Nazi Germany and those author authoritarian regimes and it really fits that really well.
[00:32:54] Great location a great set perhaps but but a great location for the filming really really good to see it and i want to talk about in just a slightly different way john we talked a little bit about about Peggy freeing.
[00:33:05] The lads who are stuck in the in the basement but this is a really good scene to have in the show having having best Peggy and Francis gone to they've freed from her cell.
[00:33:16] Yeah arriving in to meet up with Alfie Dave boy Thomas and Lucius because these characters don't interact very often it's kind of called out quite considerably really if you were to rename this show you could call it.
[00:33:27] Pennyworth and Sykes because bet Sykes is the other major character in the show so she got the opening scene in season one.
[00:33:34] All the way through to now her story has been really interesting to follow alongside but they haven't met very often there was that kind of weird situation between them where bet was in love with as many though as my didn't care for as may was was Alfie's girlfriend so they had those interactions in season one but you haven't seen them together in season two and i like.
[00:33:55] In this finale and it's in this penultimate episode i like that Peggy kind of calls out that alpha is a pretty alright guy you know at the end of the day not good enough for as me of course boss.
[00:34:05] What is a good guy and she does free him and they have the conversation just kind of finding and finding out about each other and catching up on where each other lives have taken them in the last over the war over the last year.
[00:34:18] Yeah no i thought this was a really felt really natural than the meet up as such you know given the situation of being incarcerated in the cells but it comes back to as me that's their focal point and you know at the time it was tense between them because.
[00:34:38] You know in a sense bet almost wanted to kill Alfie in order to get and have as may offer a self yet but as miss is dead she's moved on just found true love again says that to Alfie and she goes no you're an alright bloke your tall you've got good.
[00:34:55] Good head of her and then she knocks out a guard and she goes and now you've got a gun because they were looking for a gun and Peggy was just.
[00:35:04] No we need our own guns you gonna find your own so she gets him a gun and i love and bet you know she moves through the different cells where she goes that says most bloke that's the jock and that's the fit yank and then goes to luchas.
[00:35:20] We haven't had the pleasure you know a really really nice kind of moment i think here we should point out for american listeners because you may not know that in in england scottish persons called a jock.
[00:35:32] America jock would be a football player or a very sportsman so i weird thing to call david boy if you kind of see him in action you wouldn't think of him as a sportsman first of all i know a scott's.
[00:35:44] I love his reaction to seeing frances gantt as well as like oh mrs gantt you're the one that did that that's so me up last time the stitches held really well.
[00:35:52] Like taking pride in their work and really happy that she gets the compliment and i again just interactions between these characters that you don't see together i think it's really good to see because.
[00:36:00] That it spread them all across the board all across england in season two lots of characters didn't interact so getting so many of them together here was great the other thing as well the one thing i really liked about the way Peggy was handling herself all of that it was as though she.
[00:36:14] Owned the headquarters it was like well i've got my past i'm entitled to be here we may have gotten ourselves lost you know lost along the way in this rabbit warren of.
[00:36:24] Of corridors and rooms but you know every time she came across a guard it was as though we're entitled to be here there's a reason for us being here is our pass and i love that first god who is.
[00:36:36] And guarding the cell of frances gawnt is that you know she's she's holding up the past she's making sure and.
[00:36:44] Everything's kind of you know below the radar but they keep their cover in that sense and bet just pulls out a razor and slices her neck and you see vicky kind of about to scream and she gives a good slap across the face i was just like you know raise the slice and vicky slap.
[00:37:01] And it was just like classic bet and Peggy i really loved and these two. That it's just i love the way Peggy and that hold themselves and move through the scenes and through this world i think it's really really good yeah i believe.
[00:37:20] Best Peggy and vicky in raven hq as the as alphian the boys easily get out of the headquarters after a couple of attempts as you mentioned earlier on. They're off in the car and heading on home but we still have bet and Peggy on their way up to.
[00:37:36] Salt's penthouse apartment effectively and when he left from mr pennyworth he said he was going off to grab his lunch so i presume he was on the way up to the penthouse where yeah.
[00:37:46] Where he'll meet the ladies so that will obviously be the way we start at the final episode of season two of pennyworth next week.
[00:37:54] Yeah i really hope so i wanna see salt the face to face with the psych sisters sure and but yeah that they are still at raven headquarters and insults sort of quarters living quarters and we're left with you know the daddy tea troll.
[00:38:16] On the back of the car with the wind whistling through his his locks that's got the goggles on so he looks kind of biggles as.
[00:38:26] As they head back to London and you see the storm cloud vile and being held as they're informing disease that they've managed to escape with the storm cloud yes and so this is all sort of interesting now as we move to the final episode and.
[00:38:45] All season two yeah that tea trolley daddy is from alfie slag yes absolutely all the slags are from alfie so he says and.
[00:38:54] Again the battery is not included one is like can you get wasted about your batteries when he's trying to convince him to turn to the raven union side so yeah.
[00:39:08] And couple of notes about the outside things we haven't covered in here i really like to having lucius lucius fox admonish all of the scientists and he meets me kind of goes.
[00:39:18] You all should know this is wrong science is supposed to be a calling here you know it's only when he's told by Thomas that he needs to hurry up and get out of there that he stops but.
[00:39:26] He's really annoyed at all of these people you know i know he was a he was a mole effectively from the cia but he's looking at all these other scientists who created this bomb effect of did to kill people you know.
[00:39:37] We saw in that interview with the actor who plays lucius fox that one of the guides that he was given for the character is open him or the idea that someone would create a nuclear bomb.
[00:39:47] I'm or would realize after they done their scientific work that what their work was being used for was a nuclear bomb and that's the kind of guy do you have to stop having this moment here where he's talking to the former people that you work side by side with and going.
[00:40:00] You're still making this you're still dealing in death weapons i thought was a really good scene to have for him because we haven't had a huge amount of lucius this season was introduced quite late and in the app in the show.
[00:40:10] And we've only had a few kind of moments with him but but seeing more of his character is really it was it was a nice little touch at the other thing i really really enjoyed was the raven union blimp over london with yes big neon surrender i thought that was just so funny.
[00:40:28] It's so central from from got them all the way through all the way through to now seeing the blimps overhead big cities is a real thing in the dc world or at least for hellers version of dc so having this blimp over london with surrender written across.
[00:40:41] Flatter back and forth that was hilarious and that's what you see when thomas is sitting at home writing his letters to his mom to explain that he's getting married.
[00:40:49] To someone she's never even met you see the surrender blimp outside the window at the same time so just showing what dire peril there in i suppose definitely that was definitely my favorite little background moment from the episode.
[00:41:02] Final one is just to call it the poem that's being recited by frances galt when she's when she's alone just because the title the episode is paradise lost i was assuming it would be paradise lost that she was reciting in there cuz she has lost everything effectively.
[00:41:16] Which is not she's reciting a cuba can the poem by cool rich so just an interesting i suppose surprise for me that's not what she's residing but they finally for me for the episode my quote for the episode something that i didn't understand and i had to look up as usual we explain these on the episode.
[00:41:35] Just misses p when she's talking to alphie and thomas and martha about their plan and she calls it the phrase who put the bell on the cat about alphie being involved in this plan that's actually from a fable effectively about a.
[00:41:52] Court of mice who are trying to work out how they will deal with their greatest enemy one of the mice comes up with a great plan of putting a bell on the cat because when they have a bell on.
[00:42:01] They will all be warned for one of the cat coming and everybody thinks it's a brilliant idea and then the oldest member of the of the mice court says but who's going to put the bell on the cat.
[00:42:12] Of course complete the undermining the entire plan so if you come up with an idea you also have to work out who it is that's going to carry out that idea.
[00:42:19] Exactly there's also i think and alphie when he's hugging his mom saying that he'll be alright he says about and just before he goes on the mission.
[00:42:29] He says it'll be cake cake and i think that is ultimately a reference to it's it'll be easy as making a cake or it's a piece of cake yeah it's a piece of cake yeah and it's easy everyone likes to eat cake there's nothing hard in it and you know i'm saying making one.
[00:42:45] And i think it's just an abbreviation of that but i was thinking.
[00:42:53] What's he talking about it'll be cake it'll be cake okay that's it that's all i have for the episode anything else to add john no nothing from my side and overall what did you think the episode how would you read it i would give this for daddy tea trolleys out of five i thought this is really nice consolidation of the series coming to that.
[00:43:16] Crux of the matter of alphie and his group working together having the intersection with them with bet and Peggy and their storyline and you know i think thomas and martyre was really important about their feelings for one another as well as alphie and Sandra and i thought i thought that was a real nice little consolidation.
[00:43:37] And i think that you know the two parts here i think really played out quite nicely and i met actually three i think one was salts just physical presence in this episode with the telephone and attack i guess on alphie and his slap of Dave boy and but i love jack banan both in terms of.
[00:44:01] His conversations with Sandra and but also the the shock surprise and admonishment of his father you know that relationships really and tense it's really difficult because of what's gone on to the bridge it was certainly difficult when you blew him up a dynamite last season exactly and so i think jeban played that really really well and to be honest and the third one was was.
[00:44:27] Just the psych sisters and i think you know they they bring pure class every time on the screen so for me it's for daddy tea trolleys out of five yeah. The success is always bringing class and sharp weapons.
[00:44:45] Absolutely thanks so much for joining us for this episode we're back with the finale of season two of penny worth next week the lion and the lamb upset 10 of season two.
[00:44:54] What do you want to happen in the finale i think we're gonna ask that before we watch the finale john what do you wanna see happen and everyone's live happily ever after okay.
[00:45:03] I don't think everybody's gonna live at the end of the season but i kinda want half of the episode be to be dealing with the end of this war taking out the raven union and whatever the final.
[00:45:15] State of England to be and i love if the other half the episode sent them off to the US sent them off to Gotham.
[00:45:21] On their travel set up a new normal for the characters i really don't want to for going into season three i really don't want another season about the raven union versus the English league or whatever they're gonna rename themselves for third season.
[00:45:33] I love if they closed off that raven union versus English league storyline at the end of the season somebody wins somebody loses and i love that the way we have it and they'll live happily ever after yeah no i agree i think and if we get in a season three.
[00:45:50] I definitely would like to see this part of Alfie's life kind of begin to come to a close and that maybe season three deals with and establishing himself in America i'd like to see Dave boy there and dare i say i'd even like to see the psych sisters there.
[00:46:11] And i really wouldn't want to lose them and maybe though there's still some connection with with England and just.
[00:46:20] Sort of in the background off center bit like Alfred is there in the same way that Thomas is there for the CIA at least to begin with you know and something happens but that it's focusing on Alfred establishing himself in Gotham and the continued relationship with Martha and Thomas because i think from here on in.
[00:46:41] That's the important thing moving this character Pennyworth in terms of what we know is to call and it's not to necessarily get to that point where he is their butler but i think it would be really good to have them in America for season three and to have some.
[00:47:00] You know peripheral sort of nod back to maybe the English league and a Z's or something you know so that it's not because it's still part of Alfred's history i mean he's literally just come on board with them so like if he's some kind of representative in America.
[00:47:17] So we want different things i want the battle between the Raven Union English League over i'd love if we continue season three is Pennyworth as a show maybe a spin off of bet sites.
[00:47:26] In the UK and have the UK as as their hunting ground maybe and i'll be working on his future as part in Gotham in a young Gotham yeah 60s got that'd be cool.
[00:47:37] And yeah no i don't think we're on different pages i definitely want to see and the war finish i want to see them in America.
[00:47:45] I don't know whether we will ever given this is a spin off in a sense of the previous show i don't think there'll be a spin off of this show.
[00:47:53] I'd like to just because it's early days of Alfred in America and you know it's not going to suddenly be with him as butler to Martha and Thomas so i'm you know that link back to his his country makes sense.
[00:48:14] In some ways and i think it might be an opportunity not to say that the actors will be there just be almost name references possibly but it may be possible that some of the characters that have been so memorable like bet and Peggy.
[00:48:30] And make their way over to Gotham i mean i can see bet and Peggy Sykes in Gotham so they fit in quite well i think they really would fit in quite well whatever decades we're going to be set in for for Pennyworth and Gotham.
[00:48:44] Really good if we see that next season but we only have a week to wait for the final episode of season two of Gotham the line in the lamp looking forward to it thanks so much for joining us for this episode of Pennyworth hopefully you're joining us for other podcasts if you're not already you can subscribe to the podcast on TV podcast industries.
[00:49:00] And get our coverage of invincible and Falcon the Winter Soldier which were also covering each week otherwise we'll see you next week for the finale of Pennyworth.
[00:49:08] Yeah thank you so much Gothamites and fellow governors for joining us for this episode of Pennyworth it has as always been a pleasure so we'll speak with you again next time bye bye.