The history of the war dogs takes us to Troy in Eyes of Wakanda Episode 2 "Legends and Lies". This episode gave us a very interesting take on Achilles and Odysseus as a Wakandan spy infiltrates their ranks to reach Helen and Paris.
Eyes of Wakanda Episode 2 "Legends and Lies" Details
Executive Producer: Ryan Coogler
Series helmed by: Todd Harris
Episode Written by: Marc Bernardin
Episode Directed by: John Fang
Spoiler Filled Synopsis: In 1190 B.C., the famous attack on the heavily fortified City of Troy by Odysseus is taking place. Each attack is repulsed by the Trojan forces, even those led by the legendary Achilles and his band of Myrmidons.
After another failed attempt to storm Troy, Achilles and his trusted friend and right hand man Memnon collect their thoughts around the campfire. Despite the deep brotherhood between Achilles and Memnon, Ferris, another member of the Myrmidons, is suspicious of Memnon who is an outsider.
Despite Achilles' trust in Memnon, little does he know that Memnon is a War Dog from Wakanda. He is at the siege of Troy to recover a Wakandan pendant from around the neck of Helen of Troy.
As the Myrmidons, led by Achilles, attempt another attack on Troy this time using Odysseus’ Trojan Horse tactic. They successfully infiltrate the city and let the rest of the Greek army in to attack. But the alarm is raised and in the ensuing battle Achilles sees Memnon peel away towards the palace as he is surrounded by the Trojan forces and left for dead.
Memnon recovers the purple amulet but is seen by Achilles who escaped the Trojans. Achilles believes he's been betrayed and that Memnon is in fact a Trojan spy. They fight one another and following blow after blow between the two Memnon cuts his friend’s heel. Despite slowing Achilles down, Memnon cannot convince his friend to stand down and as the fight rages Achilles is killed by Memnon who places the coins on his friends eyes for the ferryman.
Six months later, back in Wakanda, B’Kai (aka Memnon) tells the leader of the War Dogs, Noni, that the mission to Troy has left its mark and he feels like a stranger in his own home as he remembers his deceased friend, Achilles.
Cast of Eyes of Wakanda Episode 2
- Memnon / B'kai - LARRY HERRON
- Achilles - ADAM GOLD
- Older Noni - LYNN WHITFIELD
- Ferro - JASON KONOPISOS
- Odysseus / Nicos - KIFF VANDENHEUVEL
- Guard 2 / Trojan Watchman - YERMAN GUR
- Helen - JOANNA KALAFATIS
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We'll be back next time with our podcast on Eyes of Wakanda Episode 3 "Lost and Found" we hope you'll join us.
Keep watching, Keep Listing and Keep Defending
John, Chris and Derek
Defenders on TV Podcast Industries
Date recorded: 31/07/2025
Date published: 04/08/2025
All images and audio clips are copyright of Marvel and Disney Plus and are used for the purposes of review no infringement is intended.
00:00 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the Defenders podcast on TV podcast industries and we're talking about the eyes of Wakanda, Episode Two, Legends and Lies.
00:10 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_00]: How many good men have I recruited to fight for justice?
00:14 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Only to lead them to their end.
00:17 --> 00:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Achilles, we joined you because you showed us there are some causes with dying for this.
00:23 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: No cause!
00:25 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's supposed to be a legend, Memnon.
00:28 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_00]: to inspire generations to come.
00:31 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead, it's just a story of Greek bodies.
00:34 --> 00:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Biled higher now than that the cursed wall.
00:37 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Legends are lies, my friend.
00:39 --> 00:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Tales told by those who never did to those who never will.
00:44 --> 00:46 [SPEAKER_00]: What we do here is not done for their benefit.
00:47 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_00]: We fight for home.
00:49 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never met a warrior more devoted to a home he was not born to.
01:09 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back fellow defenders to the defenders podcast on TV podcast industry is we're about to get into episode two of Eyes of Wakanda at this time entitled Legends and lies we head into Ancient Greece and the Trojan wars interesting always yes, but of course
01:32 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_02]: is rude of me not to introduce myself.
01:34 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm one of your host, Jill.
01:36 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Remember, don't attack.
01:38 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm one of your other hosts, Derek.
01:40 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, I'm your other host, Derek.
01:41 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're still the man, Dan.
01:42 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Chris, I'm able to join us.
01:43 --> 01:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Man down, man down.
01:44 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:45 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, um, there's a lot of man, Dan, and uh, there's a thing this episode.
01:48 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_03]: We're lost with man, Dan.
01:50 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:51 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, this is such an iconic tale, the story of Troy that it's so interesting that, you know, they're incorporating what can't do into that.
02:01 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I love the idea of doing that in this episode.
02:03 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It is interesting, isn't it?
02:05 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And certainly because there was the little teaser trailer of Nolan's Odyssey.
02:12 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, it's kind of interesting that this is here as well, so it's like,
02:16 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It'll be all Greek to me by the end of this.
02:19 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, Chris Radoan.
02:20 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Marvel got their first.
02:21 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_02]: They did it.
02:22 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_02]: What's your job copy in Newly?
02:23 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a bit smaller, but just... Excellent stuff.
02:26 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks so much for joining us for our chat.
02:28 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_03]: As of now, if you want to email us with your thoughts on any of the episode you can email us to feedback at TV, podcastindustries.com or pop on our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash TV podcast industries where you can find our spoiler for posts for each of the episodes of the show.
02:45 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_02]: And of course you can pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com where you can subscribe to the podcast on any good or evil podcast player of your choice.
02:58 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're new to the podcast, please subscribe to the podcast as well.
03:03 --> 03:26 [SPEAKER_02]: We have tons of stuff over on art website at tvpodcastindustries.com where you can listen to all our back catalog which includes this year another Ryan Kudler production which was ironharts and not only are we looking at eyes of Wakanda but we're currently in the world of the Sandman as well which also has a bit of a great
03:27 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_02]: It certainly does.
03:28 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_02]: It certainly does.
03:30 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I think without further ado, let us get into our spoiler filled discussion of legends and lies.
03:43 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Derek, what awesome of the episode details?
03:46 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, exactly just to the show, of course, are a Ryan Kudler, with Ginger Kudler, Brad Windbaum, Kevin Feige, Louis Dusk's O-Serva Hanyan, Kelly Aking, Todd Harris, Dinah Vasquez, Oberhart, as well.
03:57 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I did notice on this episode, I was probably on the first episode as well, that one of the consulting producers for the show is Matthew Chonsey, who was one of the lead producers on Water F as well, the animated series.
04:08 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_03]: All working together, we noticed at the beginning of the episodes, we have the Marvel animation logo now, rather than the Marvel Studios Marvel TV logo.
04:16 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_03]: So specifically at the moment, that's just what if episodes?
04:20 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_03]: But we will be seeing Marvel zombies coming up soon.
04:23 --> 04:29 [SPEAKER_03]: And obviously, it will also include the friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man as well.
04:29 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_03]: But yes, there is definitely going to be some zombies in there too.
04:31 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, the certainly will.
04:33 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
04:34 --> 04:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Forward to that.
04:34 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_03]: My favorite.
04:36 --> 04:39 [SPEAKER_03]: The show is held by Director Executive Producer Todd Harris.
04:39 --> 04:49 [SPEAKER_03]: And this episode was written by Mark Bernard and Mark Bernard and probably very well known to people who listen to the smart cast with Kevin Smith as he's co-host over there for all of the entertainment stuff.
04:49 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And Mark Bernard and has is a very prolific writer who's involved in lots and lots of projects.
04:54 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_03]: We probably know not just from the podcast with Kevin Smith.
04:57 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_03]: He was also one of the writers on Star Trek.
04:59 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_03]: He heard as well.
04:59 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that was cool.
05:00 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, excellent.
05:02 --> 05:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Excellent stuff.
05:03 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I want you to get Mark's take on the world of Wakanda.
05:07 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_03]: It certainly is.
05:08 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_03]: It certainly is.
05:08 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_03]: This episode is directed by John Fang as a storyboard artist and director on lots of DC projects including, beware the Batman and Superman Batman public enemies as well which we've seen both of.
05:18 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting is John Fang, a Trishon horse.
05:21 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_02]: He may well be.
05:22 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_02]: He may well be.
05:23 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_03]: The only Marble brother that he's worked on before was the animated Silver Cypher TV show.
05:27 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
05:28 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Very long time ago.
05:29 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that is a while again.
05:30 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
05:30 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_03]: It's the old mid-nore and rad.
05:31 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_03]: John, a Silver Cypher.
05:33 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
05:33 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
05:34 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And not shall I bow?
05:35 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, not to whom we sell it in the fantastic for a baby just a couple weeks ago, which we also have a podcast for over at TV podcast industries.
05:43 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_03]: But, y'all, do you want to tell us what the game is that they're synopsis for episode two of Eyes of Wakanda Legends and Eyes?
05:49 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
05:50 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_02]: In Circa, eleven ninety BC, the famous attack on the heavily fortified city of Troy by Odysseus is taking place.
05:58 --> 06:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Each attack is repulsed by the Trojan forces, even those led by the legendary Achilles and his band of Mermadans.
06:07 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_02]: After another failed attempt to storm Troy, Achilles and his trusted friend and right hand man, Memnon, collect their thoughts around the campfire.
06:15 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Despite the deep brotherhood between Achilles and Memnon, Ferris and other member of the Mermittons is suspicious of Memnon, who is an outsider.
06:25 --> 06:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Despite Achilles' trust in Mennon, Little does he know that Mennon is in fact a war dog from Wakanda.
06:32 --> 06:38 [SPEAKER_02]: He is at the siege of Troy to recover a Wakandan pendant from around the neck of Helen of Troy.
06:39 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_02]: As the Mermidan's led by Achilles attempt another attack on Troy, this time using Odysseus's Trojan horse tactic, they successfully infiltrate the city and let the rest of the Greek army into attack.
06:53 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But the alarm is raised, and in the ensuing battle, Achilles sees Memnon peel away towards the palace, as he is surrounded by the Trojan forces and left for dead.
07:03 --> 07:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Memnon recovers the purple amulet, but is seen by Achilles who escape the Trojans.
07:09 --> 07:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Killies believes he's been betrayed, and that Mennon is in fact a Trojan spy.
07:14 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_02]: They fight one another and following blow after blow between the two Mennon cuts his friend's heel.
07:20 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Despite slowing a Killies down, Mennon cannot convince his friend to stand down.
07:25 --> 07:32 [SPEAKER_02]: As the fight rages, a Killies is killed by Mennon, who places the coins on his friend's eyes for the ferryman.
07:33 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Six months later, back in Wakanda, Bakai, aka Memnon, tells the leisure of the ward dogs, an aged nonny, but the mission to Troy has left its mark, and he feels like a stranger in his own home.
07:47 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_02]: As he remembers, his deceased friend, Achilles.
07:50 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I love this concept, and it really comes from the title of the episode a great job here by Mark Bernardin, telling the story because, you know, it is a base, the legend.
07:59 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_03]: of Achilles and the legend of Odysseus and what happened in Troy and what we know and what we don't know and I love that they've
08:08 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_03]: craft this story around the Wakandan Wardog, Memnon that's here, coming in and befriending Achilles.
08:16 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_03]: This is different to the story that you would have read in the Greek legend and there's a reason for that.
08:20 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I love that idea that that's what they're playing with here, that you know, the bits of legend, the idea that the Achilles heal of Achilles is what actually took him down.
08:29 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's not in this case, the Achilles heal of Achilles is actually his friend Memnon who gets
08:36 --> 08:41 [SPEAKER_03]: killed the greatest warrior of the army because he got so close to him.
08:42 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's accidental and he didn't want to do it.
08:44 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_03]: He had to do it because it's on a different mission here for Wakanda rather than what's going on between the Trojans and the Greeks here.
08:51 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_03]: So what a cool way to tell the story.
08:53 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.
08:54 --> 09:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's, you know, I think the best thing for me really on this episode is I just like that kind of exploration of the toll that it takes to be a wardog.
09:09 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_02]: In this case for Memnon, I think it's, you know, beautifully summed up with Bikai at the end with Nonny.
09:17 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I know I'm kind of jumping straight to the end here, but in a sense to me that kind of encapsulates the pain of what
09:27 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_02]: but I had to do as a war dog infiltrating into the Greek army.
09:35 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_02]: But ultimately becoming friends with Achilles being, as you say, here's Achilles heel and and trumping that with the loyalty to Wakanda.
09:48 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_02]: But then back in Wakanda, there is just that
09:55 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_02]: thing that great at his heart, great to his gut, great to his mind about what he has done, and as Noni says, the real life experience has left that mark because, yes, you're experiencing real things and in this case,
10:19 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_02]: his friendship is brotherhood where the killies was real.
10:24 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_02]: But he had to lie, he had to betray him.
10:28 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And that has made him feel like a stranger in Wakanda at home because he
10:38 --> 10:45 [SPEAKER_02]: formed a life outside of the companionship of Brotherhood, a community who fought for one another.
10:47 --> 11:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And I like the little subtlety of, you know, Achilles saying, you know, as the sat down after that failed attempt right at the start, the round the campfire, you know, you see men on using Wakandan technology to heal the palm of his hand.
11:08 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_02]: where he took an arrow to save the killies.
11:12 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, a killie is, you know, I fight for Greece and men on is I fight for home.
11:20 --> 11:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, this all comes to play in the final battle where, yeah, you sense it is
11:29 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_02]: driven by rage from Achilles' size and calmness from men on side is trying to sort of deescalate the situation but ultimately is forced into
11:46 --> 11:48 [SPEAKER_02]: having to kill Achilles.
11:49 --> 12:02 [SPEAKER_02]: He just can't make him stand down from his residence only at the end, you know, that there is a rationality about him where he asks why, but it's too late and he's bled out.
12:02 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's actually quite poignant, really.
12:06 --> 12:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's sort of beautifully wrapped up in the tail of the Odyssey and the War of Troy, the Battle for Troy.
12:16 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's all wound up in with the Odyssey and Odysseus and the Battle for Troy.
12:24 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just think it's really nicely done.
12:28 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I actually think this title legends and lies, it's just really so good to it.
12:34 --> 12:36 [SPEAKER_02]: describing this episode.
12:36 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_02]: So again, another episode I really really enjoyed and I was surprised and you know, you got really invested in these two characters so quickly.
12:46 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's what works so well.
12:48 --> 12:53 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's a conversation they have between one another around the campsite after the failure of another
12:53 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_03]: and other attack where Achilles is kind of regretting, drawing in so many warriors to him, behind him and bringing them into battle and them all losing their lives because they believe in the stuff that Achilles has been selling.
13:09 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And behind it all, even though you don't hear from Memnon until towards the end of the episode, behind it all, that's exactly what Memnon's doing.
13:16 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_03]: He's the one that's encouraging Achilles to continue his battle.
13:19 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_03]: encouraging everybody to continue fighting because he has one solitary mission which is to get this artifact back to Wakanda and he will really do anything and say anything to get them to follow him and it leads to the death of Achilles.
13:32 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So he's experiencing pretty much the same thing that Achilles is talking to him about and his support is really just to support
13:40 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_03]: the Wakanda position.
13:41 --> 13:43 [SPEAKER_03]: So he's been out of Wakanda for nine, ten years.
13:43 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_03]: I think now he says at the end he's been there for such a long time being involved in this crusade or this battle between the Greeks and the Trojan.
13:53 --> 13:56 [SPEAKER_03]: So he's so heavily involved in that and built his own life out of there.
13:56 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_03]: But has been hiding in plain sight with them.
13:59 --> 14:00 [SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
14:00 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's I think what I really like about this.
14:02 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of it just brings that notion of the price
14:06 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_02]: to the individual, which is, you know, Bikai for that greater larger concept, which is Wakanda, and preventing the outside world from
14:23 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_02]: knowing it's there and using its technology is that, you know, the personal versus the impersonal higher level kind of concept of this nation, this society and how it takes
14:42 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_02]: that personal price on the car.
14:46 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And when he's had time to reflect on actually what he's done.
14:53 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And in a sense how he made that friendship when his job would dictate that he shouldn't do.
14:59 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just really good.
15:01 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it's really interesting.
15:03 --> 15:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I love the just that little touch of when Nani's trying to call it too, and he doesn't recognize his name because it's been so long since he used that name.
15:10 --> 15:21 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you can expect lots of undercover spies and lots of undercover people who've been in positions for a very long time might not be able to recognize anything of their past that they're fighting for.
15:21 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And interestingly, he makes the choice or says he's going to make the choice to go back out again.
15:26 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_03]: because he doesn't recognize Wakanda as being as how many more he's still willing to defend us.
15:30 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_03]: He's still willing to do the job that he has been brought into the war dogs for, but he doesn't feel that he can live within the society anymore.
15:38 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_03]: That's an interesting idea.
15:40 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's like, I feel alone here and Wakanda, the field is where I belong.
15:44 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:44 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel that's something that from Nikiya, the character in Black Panther that we know was a member of the war dogs, that was something quite similar for her, she didn't feel like she
15:54 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_03]: was meant to stay in the city of Wakanda, that she needed to be out in the world as well, so similar idea there.
16:03 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_03]: But I do get the feeling from Bakai, though, I don't know whether or not
16:08 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Complete his next mission if he is sent back to Sudan.
16:11 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that he's dissolution, but we're kind of it.
16:14 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's it.
16:15 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Because he has the necklace given to him by Achilles.
16:21 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, as a sign of their friendship, a sign of their trust their brotherhood, which was a gift given to Achilles by his mother.
16:32 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got him look.
16:34 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course.
16:35 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
16:35 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_02]: As soon as he hands it to Memnon,
16:38 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_02]: his men on who has the look in that fight because he's kind of thumbing that as he is sat in Wakanda reflecting after having spoken with Noni and so you do you're right you wonder whether yes he belongs in the field yes he will be doing whatever the mission is but in a sense you know he's noni gonna give him maybe a easier lower level mission you know to monitor and report back rather than something were
17:08 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_02]: you know, he becomes too invested in the life that he has to create.
17:16 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that is all just really, really good.
17:19 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, this was, yeah, this was really good.
17:24 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_02]: You have that Mermes Rower Achilles defense men on.
17:28 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_02]: They trust him with his life.
17:30 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_02]: when suspicion is raised by one of the other mermidons and ferro and you know ultimately again it fuels his anger when he sees men on sort of peeling away to go up to the palace and you have the moment we just confront Hellen of Troy and there is Paris and he allows them to escape and they just look so you
17:53 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_03]: use this, you know, the battle of Troy is supposed to be false over Helen.
17:58 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Paris is supposed to be another one of the fighters that's there, but yeah, they just look like especially Paris looks completely used.
18:06 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_03]: He's piling up his walled of cash to escape from this place and trying to get out of there.
18:11 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_03]: He's not running out with a sword to get into battle or anything like that.
18:15 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I really like that.
18:16 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, yeah, for me, ultimately, this kind of felt quite melancholy and sad.
18:21 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, my degree in the end, and I thought it was really impactful because of that.
18:26 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, me too.
18:28 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Any notes in anything else we haven't mentioned from the episode, John?
18:32 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Just the fact that I guess the Trojan horse in our conversation, which is Odysseus's Trojan horse.
18:41 --> 18:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of like that notion.
18:42 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just really good.
18:44 --> 18:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I like the fact that, you know, killies and men don't seem to suggest that Odysseus's full of tricks is trying that everything he can to try and breach the battlements of Troy.
18:59 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And in order to get to King preem,
19:01 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of like this, you know, and this is kind of one last role of the die.
19:07 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_02]: How do you get your enemy to effectively relax in effect, which is pretend you've gone and give them a gift?
19:18 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I do love the conversation between some of the guys who are sitting inside the horse going, what is it with jokes and some of these horses?
19:25 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_03]: What is wrong with them?
19:26 --> 19:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Why are they so obsessed with bloody horses?
19:29 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of kind of funny little conversation there.
19:31 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_03]: One of the things I really like is it's a very small touch, but I just like that Achilles is calling Memnon Oldman because they've been together for ten years.
19:39 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you've lost a ten years across multiple wars, you probably would feel like you're a really old man, even though they're probably early thirty.
19:46 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_02]: In eleven ninety PC exactly.
19:48 --> 19:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
19:49 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Great stuff.
19:50 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Overall, they're done.
19:51 --> 19:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you defend this episode?
19:53 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I do defend this episode.
19:56 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_02]: For me, I'd give this four and a half Trojan ponies out of five.
20:01 --> 20:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I just love really affecting.
20:04 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I've found it quite
20:06 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_02]: affecting this sort of betrayal of a friend and brotherhood between Achilles and a menor and the impact it has on him, all for the greater good of Wakanda, which you get the sense is being questioned then by Bikai wants his back in Wakanda after that mission.
20:30 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's successful.
20:31 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Ultimately, it's successful.
20:34 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And but it's left and after taste that is too much for Buckeye really.
20:41 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It's made him view Wakanda relatively differently from before.
20:49 --> 20:51 [SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of really liked that idea.
20:52 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_03]: I really like that one.
20:52 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that it's Noni, who we saw on the first episode, who's now the leader of the war dogs.
20:56 --> 21:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that it's her that has the conversation with them because she's experienced the enth degree of somebody that became disillusionable with Condon, became a giant enemy.
21:05 --> 21:11 [SPEAKER_03]: She went and battled against the lion in the first episode and now she has one of her war dogs coming back to her going, is it all worth it?
21:11 --> 21:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel disassociated with
21:13 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_03]: with this become a society and she can have that moment to give him her ear and you know talk from experience truly you know so I really like that choice really good episode really well written and yeah one of my one of my favorites iris in history with the Greek so well that's it it's just having it in that and time with that familiar story of you know the Trojan War and they all just see really exactly
21:40 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And then the episodes are right, we have some feedback in from some of our wonderful fellow defenders.
21:45 --> 21:47 [SPEAKER_03]: First up, on episode one of Eyes of Wakanda.
21:48 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Kaffin Vakas says, greetings fellow sea-faring defenders.
21:51 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't sure what to expect with this being a whole new concept, but wow, easily one of the best entries in the MCU, large or small screen for quite some time.
22:00 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_03]: The animation and voice acting were top notch, making for a smooth and action-packed ride.
22:04 --> 22:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Most importantly, all thoughts of its technical achievements were lost in the immersiveness of the story.
22:09 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Noni, our viewpoint to the world building, was an excellent protagonist, as was her antagonist, The Lion.
22:15 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_03]: There was more than a bit of original trilogy Star Wars influence, most especially with The Lion's attempt to turn her to the dark side.
22:21 --> 22:26 [SPEAKER_03]: The rest was all its own tale, and I'm looking forward to watching episode two once done, putting words to screen.
22:26 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Five War Dog East Dog Worlds, fleece fleets, and Lion eyes as of five, fleece and take care, coffee and vodka.
22:34 --> 22:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Very good coffee vodka, War Dog East Dog Worlds.
22:37 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, doggy dog will of course of course Yeah, thanks for the feedback Carving vodka really agree with you how this kind of sets up this little mini series from Marvel animation just really nicely And nonny swear just sort of threads it's way through these series and and yeah
23:01 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_02]: good.
23:02 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Great start.
23:04 --> 23:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I like the touch of the original series Star Wars influence.
23:06 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true actually.
23:08 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:08 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And see that.
23:10 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_01]: The lion and his dark size.
23:14 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately, who is good in this world, you know?
23:17 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Because the Jedi get more sketchy as you move through the Star Wars story telling.
23:22 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
23:23 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_03]: And they're never intended to be.
23:24 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think.
23:25 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_03]: But they eventually become very sketchy as other people came on board and expanded the story.
23:28 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
23:29 --> 23:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I think when you expand it beyond its original concept, you realize it's not all just plain sailing.
23:34 --> 23:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
23:35 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_02]: As it were.
23:36 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_02]: but a great stuff thanks coffee and vodka, over on our Facebook group we have some feedback as well for episode one from Bob Phillips who says I don't have the depth of law or skill depreciation of the art of animation to really really understand this show but I can say that as a casual viewer I felt right into this origin story of the spy who freed me
24:00 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And slavement and its origins in power and arrogance come through very strongly and Will we be seeing the return of non-e fury on later episodes at great spot?
24:12 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it is non-e fury for sure.
24:14 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm surprised Derek didn't spot that one.
24:16 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's who she was
24:23 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_03]: But we did see her appear at the loader in this episode of Episode Two.
24:27 --> 24:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And some episode two feedback from Coffee and Vodka, John?
24:30 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, over on our email, Coffee and Vodka says greetings, fellow besieging defenders.
24:37 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Another fantastic installment this time dealing with long-term infiltration and even longer-term post-war psychological disorders.
24:45 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Memnon, Bakaai, and Akili's friendship bordering on Brotherhood felt real and added to yet another immersive episode.
24:53 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_02]: This one being more touching and relevant than the first.
24:56 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_02]: No mean feat for an animated feature.
24:59 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Speaking of no mean feat, this one offered up so many out of five so it was hard to keep it to three.
25:05 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Among the runner-ups were tro soldiers and historical heels and gift horses, again looking forward to the next episode.
25:13 --> 25:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Five spent trotions per pre-am mature victories and Achilles tend on seas out of five.
25:22 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_02]: He's in take care.
25:23 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Coffee in vodka.
25:25 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Excellent.
25:25 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Coffee in vodka.
25:26 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Very good.
25:27 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Coffee in vodka.
25:28 --> 25:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I can see why I spentations and made the list.
25:30 --> 25:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
25:31 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not Troy Solge.
25:33 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, very good.
25:36 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_03]: But it is a really good episode.
25:37 --> 25:44 [SPEAKER_03]: This one I love the way that they deal with the post-traumatic stress of being undercover for ten years.
25:44 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a really interesting idea to deal with in such a short episode of an animated show as well.
25:50 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, completely agree.
25:51 --> 25:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm coughing vodka.
25:52 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_02]: It's such a really good story.
25:56 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, thick and fast, really immersive in such a short space of time and you really feel the pain between men and men on and Achilles and then becky back in Wakanda.
26:09 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it really top notch.
26:11 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
26:11 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
26:12 --> 26:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Great stuff, thanks to that coffee vodka, and back over on Facebook, we got feedback in from Dr. Bob Phillips again, who says so, Fury was just copying director, not even the whole time.
26:21 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I wonder if that flurkin was once a pet of Nami, and seeing Nick and his office thought, I know what you really need to carry out this role, and I patch.
26:29 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Great tale of patriotism.
26:31 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm love clashing and the inevitability of failure, which ever choice was made.
26:35 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Who goes and shy of Apple concerns in this animated format and it makes this a much deeper read than a story of classical era parkour invaders.
26:44 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the guy's climbing up outside the castle in Troy rather than going in through the door.
26:51 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Parkour, the walls instead, right?
26:53 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, absolutely.
26:54 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess those blades were quite strong, given they were able to just go through stone like a knife through butter.
27:05 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And less memnon brought in a whole load of vibranium blades.
27:09 --> 27:11 [SPEAKER_02]: It could sort of pass around.
27:12 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And the hit story behind it.
27:14 --> 27:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Really, I don't think any outsiders need vibranium because they've got quite strong steel as it goes, yeah.
27:22 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_02]: But that was my only quibble with that.
27:25 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they don't have less.
27:26 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they're adamantium blades.
27:28 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe even if they were going in between the grooves, you know, the edges and so on.
27:34 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, I still enjoyed this episode.
27:38 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_02]: So it didn't affect my enjoyment.
27:40 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
27:41 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
27:41 --> 27:42 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like stuck about a few feet back.
27:43 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Bob, and Heather Wallace on Facebook always says, I didn't expect to retelling off the Trojan War that would make Achilles much more interesting than the tension-throwing brats sulking in his tent because his slave concubine prize was taken away from him, type of Achilles.
27:59 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_02]: The vibe between him and Memnon resulted in Achilles' tendon being sliced was visceral.
28:05 --> 28:14 [SPEAKER_02]: points to the team, including the Mermodons, they rarely get an in-check in-screen versions, and Paris being a complete weasel made me laugh.
28:15 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_02]: The story of a warrior betraying a friend to get home and then feeling disconnected from the longed for home is so sad and definitely in the spirit of the Iliad and the Odyssey.
28:27 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much Heather, definitely.
28:29 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It really did sort of play and work nicely in this classic story of the Odyssey, but also just bringing that into Wakanda really well.
28:42 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely.
28:44 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And as I said during the podcast, I did love the idea of Paris being just this.
28:49 --> 28:53 [SPEAKER_03]: at this sky that wants to collect dollars money and doesn't really care about anything else.
28:53 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_03]: So, I think actually what they're aiming at there is if he hadn't wasted all of his time gathering together, all of his precious goods that could have escaped, where they're being confronted by the Reconven spy here, right?
29:08 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, they could have got nice with those with those Any hassle at all if it hadn't been for Paris trying to gather together all those precious items to get it get out of there.
29:18 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah Great stuff, Heather.
29:21 --> 29:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks so much for all the feedback for this episode.
29:23 --> 29:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah
29:23 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks Heather and thanks to all the fellow defenders for their feedback on these first two episodes really great to get your thoughts on this really sort of neat and tight series.
29:35 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_02]: So I hope everyone is enjoying this show and like we are.
29:40 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
29:41 --> 29:46 [SPEAKER_03]: You can email us with your thoughts on the series through feedback at tvpodcastindustry.com.
29:46 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_03]: As I mentioned earlier on, it can pop out over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash tvpodcastindustries where you can leave your thoughts on the spoilers for these four episodes of Eyes of Wakanda.
29:57 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks so much for your time for this episode.
29:59 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, thanks so much, fellow defenders.
30:01 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_02]: We will be back with episode three of Isaf Wakanda.
30:06 --> 30:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Really looking forward to this one.
30:08 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_02]: It's called Lost and Found.
30:10 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
30:11 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_03]: We may have been spoiled a bit.
30:12 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_03]: What did that episode?
30:13 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I think we may have been.
30:15 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we know you've all watched as well.
30:17 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, we're looking forward to talking about that one.
30:19 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.
30:20 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And but thanks so much, fellow defenders until episode three, keep watching, keep listening, and of course, keep defending.
30:28 --> 30:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Bye.
30:28 --> 30:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Bye.