Agatha All Along Episode 4 Review

[00:00:00] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We're back talking about Agatha All Along Episode 4. If I can't reach you, let my song teach you.

[00:00:09] What's up? I'm Rio.

[00:00:12] Hello. Hey.

[00:00:14] So, you're a green witch?

[00:00:18] Um, less a green witch. More the green witch.

[00:00:53] Welcome back, witches. Are you ready to rock?

[00:00:55] It's Defenders TV Podcast. We're back with Agatha All Along for Episode 4. If I can't reach you, let my song teach you. I'm one of your hosts, Derek.

[00:01:04] Hello there, fellow Defenders. I am your other host, John.

[00:01:08] And our coven is complete. Welcome back to our third host.

[00:01:13] What's up, witches?

[00:01:15] Exactly. We've got our malingering witch.

[00:01:21] I was going to say malignant, but sure.

[00:01:24] Well, we had to call him down to the road, and it's taken a few weeks for that spell to work.

[00:01:28] Oh, yeah. It's like a long, long road.

[00:01:31] But it is fantastic to have all of us back together for the fourth episode of Agatha All Along.

[00:01:36] We got to see this, actually, a few weeks ago, so delighted that we're able to...

[00:01:40] Yeah, I did.

[00:01:41] On the previews, you were with me. You were sitting beside me.

[00:01:44] So, we've been waiting to talk about this episode, the rock episode of Agatha All Along.

[00:01:48] A fun one this week.

[00:01:49] So happy to be back. So much to discuss.

[00:01:52] Agatha is double A, triple A standard.

[00:01:56] There you go. Agatha All Along, triple A.

[00:01:58] Yep.

[00:01:58] Yep.

[00:02:00] And setting a secondary benchmark in terms of taking a song that is an earworm and just almost Witcher tossing to your Witcher level.

[00:02:09] Oh, yeah.

[00:02:10] Definitely.

[00:02:11] I could listen to this for a while. Put this on Spotify.

[00:02:14] I'm going to have it on repeat for a while.

[00:02:16] And they're doing different variations of it now.

[00:02:18] It just needs Henry Cavill in a bath.

[00:02:20] That's all.

[00:02:20] There you go. That's all it needs.

[00:02:21] Somewhere along the witch's road, I guess you could do that.

[00:02:24] That's the witcher's road.

[00:02:25] We're chasing the witcher.

[00:02:28] The witcher's road.

[00:02:29] Yes.

[00:02:30] Yeah, they've done a really good job of making it sound different each time they've done it as well.

[00:02:34] Because it was the theme tune in the first episode where they were doing the true crime episode.

[00:02:38] Then they had this song where they're all singing going into the witch's road.

[00:02:41] And this episode, we have a rock version of it.

[00:02:43] But all the same song, basically.

[00:02:44] So, I'm trying to think what other shows did that before.

[00:02:47] I think The Wire used to change the theme tune every season.

[00:02:51] It did.

[00:02:51] With a completely different style.

[00:02:53] But I can't think of very many others.

[00:02:55] I think Weeds did it as well.

[00:02:56] Community.

[00:02:56] Yeah, Community.

[00:02:58] Community did it, yeah.

[00:02:58] I think Bergerac did it back in the day.

[00:03:00] I don't know whether Bergerac did it.

[00:03:02] I don't remember watching anything past maybe one episode of One Sunday Night of Bergerac.

[00:03:07] But we're not here to talk about Bergerac, surprisingly enough.

[00:03:09] We're here to talk about Agatha all along.

[00:03:11] If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, please pop over to our website at TV Podcast Industries,

[00:03:15] where you can subscribe to any Wiccan or Android-loving podcast player of your choice.

[00:03:20] And you can check out the podcast there.

[00:03:22] We're covering lots of other stuff as well.

[00:03:23] We're covering the final episode of Season 2 of Rings of Power, the Lord of the Rings show on the Prime Video.

[00:03:30] And we're also covering the third episode of The Penguin, the DC show,

[00:03:33] the spin-out of the Batman film by Matt Reeves, which has been fantastic.

[00:03:38] So a proper drama, a big fantasy epic story, and the comedy show that is Agatha all along.

[00:03:44] Comedy musical with a bit of drama.

[00:03:47] Marvel DC and L.O.T.R., I guess.

[00:03:49] Exactly, exactly.

[00:03:50] Massive properties.

[00:03:51] That's a lot.

[00:03:52] Yeah.

[00:03:52] That's a lot.

[00:03:53] Yeah, big properties.

[00:03:54] Absolutely.

[00:03:55] We love hearing from you.

[00:03:56] We'd love to hear your thoughts on any of the shows that we're covering.

[00:03:58] Email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or pop on over to our Facebook group at

[00:04:02] facebook.com slash groups slash TV podcast industries.

[00:04:05] There's spoiler posts up for each of the episodes of the shows that we're covering there.

[00:04:08] We can chat about them with other wonderful listeners and ourselves,

[00:04:12] and we can talk about your feedback on the podcast.

[00:04:14] And one last reminder, we also have our Agatha all along cauldron quiz,

[00:04:18] question four of which will be up later in the episode as well.

[00:04:21] Gather all the answers together to that.

[00:04:23] Email them to us at the feedback email address,

[00:04:25] and you could be with a chance of getting your hands on some Agatha goodies at the end of the season.

[00:04:29] Indeed.

[00:04:29] Indeed.

[00:04:30] Yes, I quite enjoyed this question, fellow quizzes and defenders,

[00:04:34] because it evolved in real time as we decided what question to ask.

[00:04:40] Yeah.

[00:04:41] So, yes, that'd be another three-pointer.

[00:04:43] Absolutely.

[00:04:44] Absolutely.

[00:04:44] And speaking of goodies, I'm going to put a quick warning out to the universe

[00:04:51] that if you're looking at Agatha goodies, be very, very careful,

[00:04:56] as unfortunately there are massive spoilers.

[00:05:01] In the merchandise.

[00:05:03] In the merchandise.

[00:05:04] What was it?

[00:05:05] Literally, they are all over the interwebs.

[00:05:08] So just be careful out there, witches.

[00:05:11] Just be careful.

[00:05:12] Yeah.

[00:05:12] Yeah.

[00:05:13] We mentioned this, I think, before, that this show was actually supposed to come out last year,

[00:05:17] but they wanted to get it aligned with Halloween,

[00:05:20] and they wanted to make sure that they spread their shows out a bit longer.

[00:05:23] So this was all filmed ages ago.

[00:05:25] And because it was ready to go last year,

[00:05:27] all the merchandise is ready to go as the show is airing,

[00:05:30] which is very unusual for Marvel and Disney.

[00:05:32] They usually have their merchandise come out months after the show comes out.

[00:05:35] So unfortunately, a spoiler has gotten out on some of the merchandise because it's ready to go.

[00:05:43] Yeah, exactly.

[00:05:43] Exactly.

[00:05:44] But we aren't going to talk about it here.

[00:05:45] We don't want to know the spoiler.

[00:05:47] Hopefully it comes up on next week's episode,

[00:05:48] so we don't have to even keep it in for much longer.

[00:05:51] Yes, exactly.

[00:05:52] But should we get into some of the where, when and how with the episode details?

[00:05:58] Absolutely.

[00:05:58] Yes.

[00:05:59] The showrunner for the show, of course, is Jack Schaefer,

[00:06:00] who was the showrunner on WandaVision as well.

[00:06:02] This episode was written by Giovanni.

[00:06:05] Giovanni.

[00:06:05] This episode was written by Giovanni Sacroix.

[00:06:07] She's a story editor on the season so far,

[00:06:09] and this is her first episode of the show that she's got credit on.

[00:06:12] Sweet.

[00:06:13] Yeah.

[00:06:13] Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:14] It was a good episode as well.

[00:06:15] It was.

[00:06:16] It was.

[00:06:16] The episode was directed by Rachel Goldberg, who directed episode three.

[00:06:19] And Chris, since you weren't with us for episode three,

[00:06:20] she also directed episode six of Gen V.

[00:06:23] So another crossover director for our shows on TVPI.

[00:06:28] There's definitely always a few.

[00:06:29] Always good.

[00:06:30] Always good.

[00:06:30] John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with your synopsis for Agatha Long?

[00:06:34] Episode four.

[00:06:35] Sure.

[00:06:35] After the death of the green-fingered Sharon Davis,

[00:06:39] Agatha pushes the coven to continue down, down the witch's road.

[00:06:43] But they are short a green witch.

[00:06:45] Using a spellbook from the teen, they summon a green witch to the road.

[00:06:49] But it's the green witch, Rio Vidal, who was summoned,

[00:06:54] and she just wants to have fun.

[00:06:55] With the coven replenished, the second trial opens up.

[00:06:59] A recording studio marked with the waxing fire moon is the challenge for the protector witch,

[00:07:05] Alice Wu.

[00:07:06] She soon realizes that she has brought her generational curse that has affected her

[00:07:11] and her family into this trial.

[00:07:14] But Agatha, knowing Alice has survived all this time, even under the curse,

[00:07:19] realizes her mother's version of the witch's road is a protection spell.

[00:07:23] As the witches and the teen are attacked by the curse,

[00:07:26] the coven get the band together and sing the ballad,

[00:07:29] finally driving the curse away and passing the test to leave the second trial.

[00:07:35] But the teen has been injured and is bleeding out.

[00:07:38] Jennifer steps up to use her real magic, healthcare, to heal him.

[00:07:42] As he recovers from his wound, the coven compares battle scars.

[00:07:47] Rio reveals she has one scar from betraying someone she loved.

[00:07:51] She and Agatha almost kiss as Rio pulls away to tell Agatha the kid is not her son.

[00:07:58] Yes, so mystery solved.

[00:08:00] That's it.

[00:08:00] The kid's not Agatha's son.

[00:08:03] That's the mystery.

[00:08:04] That's it.

[00:08:05] It's all over.

[00:08:05] We're never going to find out who it is.

[00:08:08] It's going to be Star Wars all over again.

[00:08:12] The mystery lasted for a whole episode.

[00:08:15] It might have been her son.

[00:08:16] It could possibly have been Agatha's son.

[00:08:17] But do we trust Rio?

[00:08:18] Anyway.

[00:08:19] Well, exactly.

[00:08:20] Is it a lie?

[00:08:21] Is it the truth?

[00:08:22] Or is it some kind of murky, mystical, witchy kind of in between?

[00:08:27] Exactly.

[00:08:28] Exactly.

[00:08:28] We will find it.

[00:08:29] Partial truth, partial lie.

[00:08:30] Yeah.

[00:08:31] Or has it already been spoiled by Funko Pops?

[00:08:33] It probably has.

[00:08:34] It probably has.

[00:08:35] But we will, of course, talk about the things that happened in the episode as we go through our top five spells.

[00:08:40] Let's start off on spell number one.

[00:08:42] And Sharon Davis is really most sincerely dead as the episode opens.

[00:08:47] We were talking about it as episode three ended with Mrs. Hart, Sharon, dying at the end of the episode and wondered would she be coming back this episode.

[00:08:55] But they pretty much confirmed 100%.

[00:08:58] Sharon Davis, the green fingered neighbor next door, not the green witch, is dead here.

[00:09:03] Yeah.

[00:09:03] Oh, yeah.

[00:09:03] She was a bad draft pick.

[00:09:06] She really was.

[00:09:06] Yeah.

[00:09:08] Unfortunately, the actress of Mrs. Hart has said she will be back, which is so interesting.

[00:09:15] So I'm like, wait, zombie flashback, zombie flashback.

[00:09:21] I laughed at this.

[00:09:22] So she was like, see you all again soon.

[00:09:26] So interesting when they did open with this, I was like, hmm, maybe not.

[00:09:32] Yeah.

[00:09:32] Well, yeah, exactly.

[00:09:35] Unless it is one of these kind of like the witch's road is it was all a dream.

[00:09:41] And basically anyone who dies on the witch's road when they come back from the witch's road is alive or go with me here.

[00:09:50] Okay.

[00:09:51] Follow my windy road to speculation station.

[00:09:55] Okay.

[00:09:57] Agatha is doing this to get power.

[00:09:59] We know that that is her thing.

[00:10:00] So actually it's about everyone gets what they want.

[00:10:04] Like you get a wish, essentially.

[00:10:06] Right.

[00:10:06] She wants her powers back.

[00:10:08] Everyone pretty much dies between now and the end of episode six and or dies in episode six.

[00:10:16] And Agatha asks, uses her wish to bring them all back.

[00:10:21] Maybe.

[00:10:22] Yeah.

[00:10:22] Including Mrs. Hart.

[00:10:24] Yeah.

[00:10:24] That's that's possible.

[00:10:25] I was wondering whether just because she was a human that was down on the witch's road that maybe she just is sent back home.

[00:10:30] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:10:30] That's what that's what I was thinking.

[00:10:32] But I do like that theory.

[00:10:33] Yeah.

[00:10:34] They kind of get bumped off one by one.

[00:10:36] But I guess this episode they didn't.

[00:10:39] There was no loss.

[00:10:41] So I guess time is running out.

[00:10:44] Near loss.

[00:10:44] There was near loss.

[00:10:45] There was near loss.

[00:10:46] But there wasn't a loss.

[00:10:47] Yeah.

[00:10:48] Yeah.

[00:10:48] But also, I would say the episode came out today.

[00:10:52] And just like anybody who got the screeners, you know, I talk about the episodes and what happens in them until it's absolutely 100 percent confirmed and out there.

[00:11:00] So it's entirely possible that she was saying, I'll see you soon, not knowing that this episode was airing today.

[00:11:06] So so the interview could have happened beforehand.

[00:11:09] You know, I'd say that she's dead.

[00:11:10] So I'm definitely gone.

[00:11:13] But according to the episode, she is because it leaves a big opening for the Green Witch.

[00:11:19] Because as we said in episode two, Agatha didn't want to bring a Green Witch along with them and just got a green fingered local nearby and said, yeah, must be a Green Witch.

[00:11:27] Yeah, that's fine.

[00:11:28] And interestingly, part of the discussion that happens over the body of of Sharon Davis is the rest of the witches are asking Agatha how many witches survived the last time you were on the road.

[00:11:41] How many witches survived with you last time?

[00:11:43] She sticks up her finger and says one.

[00:11:46] Yeah.

[00:11:46] Yeah.

[00:11:47] I'm not sure if she means Agatha plus one or does she just mean herself?

[00:11:52] It's because she doesn't answer it as me and somebody else.

[00:11:56] It just seems like it could be Agatha survived.

[00:11:59] She's the only one that survived.

[00:12:01] Or potentially it could have been Agatha and Rio who went down the road in the past and the two of them got out.

[00:12:06] Because as we know, Rio is coming into the episode.

[00:12:08] So we'll talk about her later on.

[00:12:10] So she could have just meant everybody else died on the road except for me and Rio or everybody died on the road except for me.

[00:12:15] I got out at the end, basically.

[00:12:17] Yeah, I mean, that's it.

[00:12:18] I think overall, though, Agatha is just really not willing to talk to them about this at all.

[00:12:25] But she's constantly deflecting.

[00:12:27] I mean, even just trying to get them back onto the witch's road quicksmartish after they've buried Mrs. Hart.

[00:12:35] And the other witch is thinking this is really callous of them.

[00:12:39] Because, I mean, there's some nice little bits of conversation here.

[00:12:42] I mean, even just that she got Alice.

[00:12:44] We were saying, well, you'll be able to find mummy, her mum.

[00:12:48] But actually, you realise after a really nice little conversation between Alice and Lilia who says she died on the road.

[00:12:57] And Alice is like, no, she died on the road.

[00:13:00] Yeah.

[00:13:00] On tour.

[00:13:01] She was on tour.

[00:13:02] Which was quite good.

[00:13:03] So, the whole reason we thought why Alice had come is not the actual reason here.

[00:13:11] It's that the road will save Alice, not her mum.

[00:13:17] Exactly.

[00:13:17] Yeah.

[00:13:18] Or to find her mum alive, even.

[00:13:19] So, yeah, some good little bits and bobs here.

[00:13:22] But certainly the other witches generally are freaking out because they are this incomplete coven.

[00:13:28] And they've lost, well, they haven't lost a green witch.

[00:13:32] You know, that's the thing.

[00:13:33] They were always an incomplete coven.

[00:13:35] But they are now like, we need to summon this backup green witch.

[00:13:39] And I do like the fact that when they do that, there is the immediate thing that, oh, is this going to be Mrs. Hart?

[00:13:46] Exactly.

[00:13:46] It's zombie Mrs. Hart.

[00:13:47] Zombie Mrs. Hart.

[00:13:49] Real life Mrs. Hart.

[00:13:50] Just brought back.

[00:13:51] So, there's a nice little touch, actually.

[00:13:53] Yeah.

[00:13:53] Playing with my 70s show emotions.

[00:13:56] Yeah.

[00:13:56] I was just kind of enjoying the irony that this entire show seems to be set pretty much in the 70s.

[00:14:01] All the actors dressed up in 70s clothes.

[00:14:03] And we have Deborah Jo Rupp, who starred in five seasons of that 70s show.

[00:14:06] Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:07] And not wanted to turn up.

[00:14:07] I wonder if she was just like, I'm not putting on a 70s costume again.

[00:14:10] Just kill me off now.

[00:14:12] I'm done.

[00:14:13] Yeah.

[00:14:13] Kill me now, please.

[00:14:14] Exactly.

[00:14:15] Exactly.

[00:14:16] But, yes, we have to say another fond farewell to Sharon Davis in our first point.

[00:14:20] Let's move on to our spell number two, because that does lead into summoning the green witch.

[00:14:24] The requirement now that they have a green witch.

[00:14:27] The rest of the coven have realized now that each of the tasks is set against each of the powers that they bring to the set.

[00:14:34] We had the water power in the first episode.

[00:14:35] This episode with the fire.

[00:14:37] I presume in the future we're going to have the earth and air powers represented, which is represented by each of the four witches.

[00:14:42] So if they don't have a green witch, they won't be able to get past the next trial.

[00:14:47] It's just interesting that Agatha's not really bought into this.

[00:14:51] I know she doesn't want a green witch, and we know why.

[00:14:54] We know there's an issue with herself and Rio, and Rio's the most likely green witch going to be coming.

[00:14:59] But it's interesting that she's not giving them any guidance.

[00:15:02] It's interesting that she's not on their side when they're saying we have to have four green witches.

[00:15:07] She's even changing the words of the ballad to reflect your coven of two.

[00:15:13] The rest of them are going, no, no, your coven is true.

[00:15:15] It's not a number.

[00:15:16] Your coven is true.

[00:15:18] So she's trying to twist everything to make it seem like they don't need to do it.

[00:15:21] So how did she get down this road in the past if she didn't have the four elements represented in the witches?

[00:15:26] Why is she being so unhelpful to the rest of them that are there?

[00:15:31] Is she just going to take an opportunity and turn on them all and kill them before they've gone through the trials and take all their powers and leave?

[00:15:37] Or is there something else?

[00:15:38] I mean, my immediate and obvious sort of guess is that Rio was the green witch that went down the road with her in the first place.

[00:15:47] And it's that experience and that shared history as to why she doesn't want to have her.

[00:15:54] Exactly.

[00:15:55] But the interesting thing is that once she is summoned, I mean, as you say, you can tell that Agatha is not at all happy about that.

[00:16:05] As the teen says, the dangerous yet charismatic witch being back.

[00:16:11] But it's also kind of the manner of Rio's arrival.

[00:16:17] Like she seems pretty chilled about being on the witch's road.

[00:16:20] She also seems because the rest of the coven are a bit scared of her.

[00:16:29] I do like Lilia, who says, you know, what a scary bitch, basically.

[00:16:35] And she hears that.

[00:16:37] But there's this kind of glint of mischievousness, I think, in Rio's eye.

[00:16:42] She certainly seems the most powers of them all there.

[00:16:47] Because when the coven says, oh, we've got our, you know, a green witch, she turns around and the demonic voice kind of comes back.

[00:16:55] You know, mate from Buffy, I am the green witch.

[00:16:59] You know, real proper Buffy and supernatural demonic voice.

[00:17:05] Yeah.

[00:17:06] How dare you call me a green witch.

[00:17:08] Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:08] So I kind of like this injection of chaos here.

[00:17:15] Absolutely.

[00:17:15] And in fairness, you're totally right.

[00:17:16] She's the only one powered.

[00:17:18] We've got the teen who's just learning.

[00:17:20] We've got Lilia, who's been unable to practice her magic.

[00:17:23] She has got some way of contacting the dead, as we see a few times in each of the episodes.

[00:17:29] But she's not using any of her magic powers.

[00:17:31] We've got a bound witch in Jen and we've got Alice Wu, who's forgotten or has put aside all of her magic because of what happened with her mother.

[00:17:39] So she doesn't believe in the magic anymore.

[00:17:41] So none of them are using any powers at all.

[00:17:43] And Agatha, of course, has had her powers taken away by Wanda and not restored yet.

[00:17:47] That's why she's on the road.

[00:17:48] So when the green witch, Rio, arrives here, she is really the only magic powered one, as we saw in episode one.

[00:17:55] She's the only one that is going to use her powers right now.

[00:17:58] So you're absolutely right.

[00:17:59] Well, we did.

[00:18:01] Jen is slightly powered by the end of this.

[00:18:05] Yes.

[00:18:05] She practiced some magic.

[00:18:07] So it seems like maybe the binding is slipping when they're on the road or people are slowly gaining some form of power.

[00:18:17] But by the end of this episode, she does perform some magic, which I think is just something to note in that there's definitely something.

[00:18:25] She talks about her binding.

[00:18:26] Yeah.

[00:18:27] And then all of a sudden, she does have some power.

[00:18:30] Well, I would say that that's probably to do with the fact that she's the one that passed the first test.

[00:18:34] And we may see Alice using powers in the second, in the next episode, because Alice passes the test in this episode.

[00:18:41] So I think as each of them go through their tests, you know, and I think that's kind of the...

[00:18:46] I think we spotted that as well.

[00:18:48] You know, I think because Lillia says, look at what you did, you know, because she's healed the team.

[00:18:54] Yeah.

[00:18:55] With the moonlight and water spell.

[00:18:57] So, yeah.

[00:18:58] No, but that's kind of interesting to see that, as you say, a bit of power coming back with the others.

[00:19:03] So maybe in the next episode, we'll see Alice's, you know, her powers kind of sort of ramping up as well.

[00:19:10] And I also feel that's kind of a bit of a theme for the show.

[00:19:14] It's kind of about them breaking through the blocks that are there for them not using their powers.

[00:19:19] I'm not sure whether Jen is entirely bound as she thinks she is.

[00:19:24] I'm not sure if Agatha is entirely bound against using magic as she thinks she is.

[00:19:28] I think they'll find ways to break through it in a different way and use their powers in a different way.

[00:19:32] But I think we'll see that as the season goes on.

[00:19:35] One of the other things I just loved, I just want to mention it, as they were summoning the Green Witch,

[00:19:39] as each of them are joining in on the spell to summon the Witch.

[00:19:43] I love what they're saying, where you have Lillia going, may she be strong and wise and best at her craft.

[00:19:48] You have Agatha going, may she be smart and not annoying and also not super political.

[00:19:53] Jen going, may she be pleasant looking.

[00:19:55] And Alice, we were going, can she bring some Advil headache tablets?

[00:19:59] It's just really funny that each of them are kind of a little less focused or wanting something slightly different out of them.

[00:20:06] I wonder, did Rio bring some Advil in her purse though?

[00:20:09] Yeah.

[00:20:11] Anything else about the Green Witch before we move on to the ballad itself?

[00:20:15] Just very quickly, when Rio does emerge, that is something from Raimi's Evil Dead style films.

[00:20:24] That is a proper being pulled or pulling yourself out of a grave.

[00:20:33] So I really, really feel that they're leaving.

[00:20:37] Everything clicking into place kind of thing.

[00:20:39] Yeah.

[00:20:40] Literally.

[00:20:40] So I really feel that they're like playing homage to a lot of the really, I don't know how to put it.

[00:20:50] The horror icons.

[00:20:53] Absolutely.

[00:20:54] And kind of shows.

[00:20:56] Because we do see some really weird close-ups as well, which you would put down to kind of Kubrick style, like Shining and Hitchcock style kind of horrors where it's just like pushed in on the face.

[00:21:09] Yeah.

[00:21:10] I think Jack's kind of looked at it and went, you know what?

[00:21:12] I have an idea of how some of these should go and be framed.

[00:21:16] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:17] Absolutely.

[00:21:18] I think there's definitely an homage there.

[00:21:20] Especially because it's coming out of Halloween.

[00:21:22] You've got to have some scary moments.

[00:21:23] But I did think it was a good jump scare as well, because you had everybody talking as she's climbing out of the grave.

[00:21:28] And they're wondering whether it is zombie Mrs. Davis returning.

[00:21:32] And then as Rio clicks her bones into place, it does feel like, you know, the zombies are walking dead.

[00:21:37] It worked really well.

[00:21:38] So that's a good little Halloween moment.

[00:21:40] But let's get on to the second trial, which is our spell number three.

[00:21:43] And what we learned about the second trial is that the ballad was a protection spell all along, which is quite interesting.

[00:21:51] So we're entering a recording studio indicated by this waxing moon.

[00:21:56] This is the fire trial.

[00:21:57] As we mentioned, we'll probably see the other two trials as we go along into the further episodes.

[00:22:02] Earth and Air represented by the other two witches as well, by Lilia and by the Green Witch coming in this time.

[00:22:07] But this is Alice's trial and love how everybody arrives looking totally 70s.

[00:22:14] They get their new outfits this time.

[00:22:15] Last time we had the pretty little eyes style on each of them as they walk through the door.

[00:22:19] At this time, it's all 70s, particularly seeing Lilia looking exactly like Liza Minnelli.

[00:22:24] And that was a great little touch there.

[00:22:26] The teen looks a bit like David Cassidy.

[00:22:28] If you remember him from 70s teen pop bands, he has that long black hair, earring in his ear, flared pants, you know, looks exactly like that.

[00:22:38] And then Agatha looks like Stevie Nicks just after Fleetwood Mac.

[00:22:41] That's her style.

[00:22:43] I'm sure we could probably work it even further and find out who Jen and Alice were supposed to be.

[00:22:48] But those are the three I picked out.

[00:22:50] But I love the style that's there.

[00:22:52] It looks really cool.

[00:22:53] They're all really happy with it.

[00:22:54] And the teen going, this is an album cover just waiting to be photographed.

[00:22:57] He's absolutely right.

[00:22:59] Oh, absolutely.

[00:22:59] Yeah.

[00:23:00] Interestingly as well, when the new house appears on the road, so Alice suddenly wants to avoid it.

[00:23:08] Turns around, it's kind of like, no way, not going anywhere near that.

[00:23:12] But, you know, the road clearly has different intentions as there is the house on the road in front of them as they turn around.

[00:23:20] But there's not, I mean, unless it's because she knows it's going to be her trial.

[00:23:27] And maybe that's it just from the look of it.

[00:23:30] But there's no, there's nothing said as to why she immediately has that reaction to that house.

[00:23:35] No, she did mention a cabin.

[00:23:37] She mentioned a cabin previously.

[00:23:40] Okay.

[00:23:41] I can't remember if it was last episode.

[00:23:46] Yeah, it was one of the episodes.

[00:23:49] Okay.

[00:23:50] Well, then, yeah, maybe that's it.

[00:23:51] Because I was like, why?

[00:23:53] Why?

[00:23:54] And then it kind of clicked that she'd obviously seen this house.

[00:23:57] I mean, it was clear that she recognized it and didn't want to go there.

[00:24:01] But there was just, you know, even if it was, oh, that was my mom's recording studio.

[00:24:06] You know?

[00:24:07] Yeah.

[00:24:07] Something like that.

[00:24:08] Something like that.

[00:24:09] And, but yeah, maybe it's just gotten lost from one of the previous episodes.

[00:24:15] But yes.

[00:24:17] Anyway, I just wanted to kind of bring that up because I was there going, okay, why she got that reaction?

[00:24:23] Okay.

[00:24:24] You know, just it's the reason for it.

[00:24:26] Yeah.

[00:24:27] Yeah.

[00:24:27] I felt like you'd need just a quick line just to say, oh, not my mom says, this is my trial.

[00:24:33] I'm out of here.

[00:24:33] Just something a little bit extra to it.

[00:24:35] I know exactly what you mean.

[00:24:37] Because it felt like everybody was on the road together knowing they were coming to a trial.

[00:24:41] And then Alice went, nope, I'm out of here.

[00:24:42] And you're going to go, but why?

[00:24:43] And just because it didn't explain in this episode is really focused on Alice.

[00:24:47] There are loads of moments where she could have explained what was going on and why she felt the way she felt.

[00:24:51] But it just didn't seem to come out in the dialogue.

[00:24:54] Yeah.

[00:24:54] Well, it's just that it felt that it felt very personal because of that reaction.

[00:24:59] Whereas with Jennifer in the previous episode, it wasn't as such anything to do directly with her other than, as she said, I look like one of my clients.

[00:25:11] It was more the kind of clientele that comes to her shop.

[00:25:15] Yeah.

[00:25:16] That's what it was kind of.

[00:25:18] That was the link, I guess.

[00:25:20] Yes.

[00:25:23] I just felt you didn't really get that from Alice in that moment with that reaction.

[00:25:30] Yeah.

[00:25:30] But you could equally go, okay, it's something to do with her mom.

[00:25:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:36] I agree with both of you in this that I feel that, and again, I haven't been on the last few episodes, so I'll just kind of in the 30-second piece go.

[00:25:43] But there's definitely a feeling of some missed bits across the episodes where I'm like, oh, that's interesting.

[00:25:54] Why didn't you just say that?

[00:25:55] Yeah.

[00:25:56] And again, I'm holding out a lot of it in terms of thinking some of them might be referenced towards the end of the series and we're like, okay, grand.

[00:26:05] And then some of it feels like this, which is like, well, they did, maybe they just cut it.

[00:26:13] Yeah, maybe.

[00:26:14] Like, cut it for an edit.

[00:26:15] But then I'm like, do you know what?

[00:26:17] The timings throughout these episodes, they're not beholden to anything at the moment.

[00:26:23] And it's not like they're all aiming at 43 minutes.

[00:26:27] They've been the scattershot.

[00:26:30] So I'm like, it doesn't feel like an edit.

[00:26:32] It feels like a dropped thread.

[00:26:35] And I'm wondering if some of these dropped threads where I'm like, okay, well, let's see maybe why they didn't do it.

[00:26:44] And maybe it is that kind of just there's expectations.

[00:26:47] But this one feels like it was a miracle, but oops, we missed that type of thing.

[00:26:52] It does.

[00:26:53] It feels like they could absolutely fill it out.

[00:26:56] And this was the other thing to remember.

[00:26:57] It's a nine-episode show and there's only two more trials to go.

[00:26:59] So there's got to be lots of other stuff to fill up all the rest of the episodes rather than just two trials, unless they really spread out the next couple of trials.

[00:27:06] The next one is a decathlon or something like that.

[00:27:09] So there will be lots more that they'll come back on.

[00:27:12] And I know we're getting little hints here and there about Lillia's past, getting hints here and there about Jen's past as well.

[00:27:18] So I suspect we'll see that and we're going to see more of Rio and we're going to see more of Agatha.

[00:27:23] Like this isn't a CSI hour-long show where they reveal everything across the one hour show.

[00:27:28] This is about the mystery box and what's going to happen at the end when everything's revealed and all of the secrets are spilled at the end of the show.

[00:27:36] So yeah, there will be things that aren't going to make sense right now.

[00:27:40] I just think this one, as is leading into the house, a moment where she says, oh, not that place or something, you know, would have been helpful.

[00:27:47] But I suppose as part of the conversation she has earlier on, as you mentioned, John, Alice reveals that her mom never died on the witch's road.

[00:27:54] She died on the touring circus, effectively, the road as cold and music, of course.

[00:28:02] But she always believed that the reason why her mom recorded a version of the ballad was because she wanted the entire audience to be her coven, that they would all be singing the ballad.

[00:28:13] And that would be the coven that would open her route into the witch's road.

[00:28:17] And as this episode goes on, we find out that she is under a curse.

[00:28:22] Her and the entire family have been under a curse.

[00:28:24] Her grandmother herself, her mother, all under a curse.

[00:28:28] And that the ballad has been a way of protecting Alice the whole time.

[00:28:32] So every time a fan plays the record, sings the record, sings that version of the song, it protects Alice and has kept her alive this whole time.

[00:28:41] So this is a pretty big reveal for Alice's character because over the past, she has always thought her bad look is just her bad look.

[00:28:49] But it seems like she would be dead at this stage if it wasn't for this ballad that's been sung by her mother and put out by her mother into the world.

[00:28:56] Yeah, I thought this was a really nice touch, actually.

[00:28:59] And, you know, her mother, to protect her daughter, wrote a protection spell within the witch's road and with slight changes to the ballad.

[00:29:10] I thought this was really good.

[00:29:11] I think it's also realizing the sort of scope of that in that it was her mom, but it was also her grandmother.

[00:29:20] We hear about that.

[00:29:22] And, of course, when the teen plays the record and releases the curse, I mean, I think Lilia is the one that says, you know, vengeance is loose and you can't reel it back in.

[00:29:35] The only way to end the curse is to face the curse.

[00:29:37] So actually, you have now Alice actually having to face up to effectively her fears really is the sort of surrogate for this.

[00:29:48] And I kind of just really liked how this played out.

[00:29:51] I even think there is a moment where Alice finds a picture of her mother with Lilia.

[00:29:58] And Lilia suddenly has little sort of sporadic moments of possession where she's communicating with Alice.

[00:30:07] So I'm wondering if it's her mom in that moment.

[00:30:10] Now, she's done this a few times, so it could not be anything related to Alice.

[00:30:15] But I like the kind of idea that in that moment in front of the picture, it was her mom.

[00:30:21] Of course, Lilia doesn't remember any of that.

[00:30:23] I think that she's seeing the future.

[00:30:27] She's slipping and that's kind of.

[00:30:29] And what I think we're seeing is snippets of conversations from the episodes ahead of us.

[00:30:36] Maybe.

[00:30:37] Yeah.

[00:30:37] Possibly, yeah.

[00:30:38] So, like, she'll repeat those lines directly one for one.

[00:30:44] And I think that will be something in her episode where it's all kind of pulled together.

[00:30:50] And we learn that she's, like, her first power, her first part of her spells was her seeing parts of the future.

[00:30:59] And that's why she was a witch.

[00:31:00] And then she kind of.

[00:31:01] And she's never been able to control it.

[00:31:03] And then I think it will play in.

[00:31:06] It's like, Agatha, save Agatha.

[00:31:08] All those pieces.

[00:31:10] Like, that's the one for me that really stood out.

[00:31:12] It was like, save Agatha.

[00:31:13] Like, we need to save her.

[00:31:16] Yeah.

[00:31:16] Those will be the ones where it will, you know, like, click, click, click, click, click.

[00:31:21] Yeah.

[00:31:21] Okay.

[00:31:22] Now I understand.

[00:31:23] Yeah.

[00:31:23] No, absolutely.

[00:31:24] I think that it's just, I, because it was so obviously in front of the picture of her mom, I just wondered, was it something to do with that?

[00:31:32] But to me, it made no sense, actually.

[00:31:35] Yeah.

[00:31:35] As you say, if you're piecing them together, and hopefully, I'm really hoping Lillia's trial comes up in the next episode.

[00:31:43] I'm sure it will be.

[00:31:45] Because I've really been intrigued by Lillia.

[00:31:48] In the same way with Jennifer, and we get a repeat of that around the doctor that bound her.

[00:31:55] Mm-hmm.

[00:31:57] It feels unusual.

[00:32:01] Absolutely.

[00:32:01] You know, so I'm kind of interested in that.

[00:32:03] I just love the light itself when Lillia's looking at the picture, and then she goes, well, which is it?

[00:32:08] Am I wispy or am I kooky?

[00:32:10] And then goes, Alice, don't.

[00:32:12] And then has no idea what she said.

[00:32:14] You know, it's just, it's really interesting that she's getting these little snips of conversation, but then has no idea what she said after she said them.

[00:32:21] So, yeah, maybe she's slipping in and out of time in some way, Chris.

[00:32:23] You know, we've often talked in the Doctor Strange circles of the MCU that he talks about magic being science that isn't discovered yet, effectively.

[00:32:33] So, that they are very similar.

[00:32:35] So, maybe there is some kind of scientific explanation for what's happening with Lillia as she's slipping in and out through time.

[00:32:40] Time travels here in the MCU.

[00:32:43] So, maybe it is something to do with that.

[00:32:44] And I really love is we'll see a slice of when she says all these things, and then it will be almost like flashbacks, but you'll have the exact same sentences happening from all the previous episodes.

[00:33:01] Because that would be an amazing super cut.

[00:33:03] Well done.

[00:33:03] Right.

[00:33:04] Well, I'm hoping.

[00:33:05] It's an interesting theory.

[00:33:07] And as well, you know, we talked about it a little bit last week, but again, we see some other stuff happening in the house here with the witches.

[00:33:13] We see Lillia sees some more images of the prosecution or persecution of witches.

[00:33:19] We don't know exactly when, but we know that Lillia has been around for many, many centuries.

[00:33:24] And we hear, as you mentioned, John, we hear Jen talk about how she was bound.

[00:33:30] And the specific mention is that she says she was at the first meeting of the Boston obstetricians, which happened in 1832.

[00:33:38] So, again, Jen is a very, very long-lasting witch.

[00:33:42] You know, she's been around for a very, very long time and bound back in 1830-ish, around that time.

[00:33:47] So, she's been bound for a very long time and living, working without magic for a very long time.

[00:33:53] So, I love these little touches that we get of them.

[00:33:56] And even after Jen's already done her trial, there's still more to learn about her as well.

[00:33:59] Well, that's it, because even just that she says she doesn't know how he did it, still doesn't.

[00:34:04] So, I just think that's really intriguing for Jennifer's character.

[00:34:08] And I think the other thing as well on this, just before kind of like the big showpiece band moment,

[00:34:15] is, you know, I mentioned about Rio and Agatha that, you know,

[00:34:19] Rio is acting kind of, you know, sort of chaotic in a sense.

[00:34:24] But there's some really kind of, you know, a lot of knowing glances here.

[00:34:27] I mean, even there's just a small moment where Rio kind of comes up behind Agatha and says,

[00:34:31] Boo!

[00:34:31] And Agatha says, No!

[00:34:33] And like, real shorthand in what they're saying.

[00:34:37] But more interestingly, they have that conversation in the producer's booth.

[00:34:45] Rio is asking, Why did you bring the boy, the teen?

[00:34:48] And you've got Agatha again being very deflective around many hands, you know, make light work.

[00:34:54] And ultimately, Agatha moving it on to wanting to call a truce, you know,

[00:34:59] but in a way to bring and pull Rio in as she kind of turns on the microphone

[00:35:04] so that she's mic'd up to the coven out in the recording studio.

[00:35:09] Yeah.

[00:35:10] Where Rio is basically saying, Well, you'll get to the end.

[00:35:13] Take the power of the other witches, kill them.

[00:35:17] You get the power and I get my bodies.

[00:35:20] And it's heard by the coven.

[00:35:22] So, like, okay, she gets her bodies, starts to sound a little bit more Mephistowy or demonic.

[00:35:34] And I'm guessing it's because of the voice than pure witch.

[00:35:38] I don't know.

[00:35:39] I get you.

[00:35:40] Yeah, I get you.

[00:35:40] I know witch would tend to, like, chuck in a dead rabbit or a load of bugs or something into the cauldron,

[00:35:46] you know, from my sort of stereotypical witch thing.

[00:35:49] But, you know, bodies.

[00:35:51] That's all lies by mainstream media, John.

[00:35:54] I don't know.

[00:35:55] They don't even like goats.

[00:35:56] They don't?

[00:35:56] No, they don't.

[00:35:57] Yeah, but they do have multiple nipples.

[00:36:00] Rio's covered with them, apparently.

[00:36:01] Exactly.

[00:36:03] But I wondered about that.

[00:36:05] When the mic switches on, I was kind of going, yeah, okay, it's bad for Rio for them to all learn that she's going to take the bodies.

[00:36:10] But also they've just learned again that Agatha's going to kill them all and steal all their powers.

[00:36:14] That it's still her plan.

[00:36:16] Is it just not as bad for Agatha because they're all protected against it now?

[00:36:20] They all knew it was going to happen and they know they have to challenge Agatha and they have to attack her with their powers.

[00:36:25] So they're okay with hearing Agatha say that if she gets an opportunity, she'll steal their powers.

[00:36:29] Because I was honestly going, why did you switch the mic on?

[00:36:32] That's bad for both people in that room there.

[00:36:35] Absolutely.

[00:36:35] I mean, it's even just the fact that you have Lilia saying, you know, towards the end going, don't think I've not forgotten what you said in the booth.

[00:36:43] But that was to Rio.

[00:36:44] Yeah.

[00:36:45] I mean, maybe it's because they've already come into this with a huge amount of distrust for Agatha anyway.

[00:36:51] Yeah.

[00:36:51] It does definitely seem to be a them and us thing.

[00:36:54] Mm-hmm.

[00:36:56] So maybe it's just for that reason.

[00:36:58] Maybe.

[00:36:59] Certainly Lilia, I think, is already suspicious of Agatha.

[00:37:02] But now it's like, I'm suspicious of you as well.

[00:37:04] You know?

[00:37:05] Yeah.

[00:37:05] Yeah.

[00:37:06] But onto the big ballad song, which I loved.

[00:37:09] I loved this idea.

[00:37:10] I thought it was so cool.

[00:37:12] And seeing the sort of winged, fiery demon that has been the carrier of this vengeance, the curse that's sort of been passed down from generation to generation.

[00:37:25] Yeah.

[00:37:26] Can we just talk about how cool that demon looked?

[00:37:29] Okay.

[00:37:29] That was proper.

[00:37:30] I thought it just looked.

[00:37:32] It's interesting you say that.

[00:37:34] Yeah.

[00:37:35] On the second watch, I was like, oh, it's better than I thought it was from the first one.

[00:37:40] Yeah.

[00:37:40] I think the first time I saw that, I thought, who got the modeling clay out?

[00:37:44] I mean, it felt like they'd put stop motion.

[00:37:47] It felt like Ray Harryhausen.

[00:37:48] Yeah.

[00:37:48] It felt like that site.

[00:37:49] And done at the time when Ray Harryhausen was around, not a new version of Ray Harryhausen.

[00:37:53] The first time.

[00:37:54] But I completely agree with you.

[00:37:55] You're watching it this morning officially on Disney+.

[00:37:58] Yeah.

[00:37:58] Because again, it's maybe because we watched the screeners.

[00:38:01] That's it.

[00:38:01] That it just didn't look as good.

[00:38:03] But I think it looked really good.

[00:38:05] Yes.

[00:38:05] It looked a lot better now that they had properly touched it up.

[00:38:10] And this is our first actual demon in the MCU, right?

[00:38:16] If you don't take Jomamu, kind of.

[00:38:19] He's a demon of an extra dimension type thing.

[00:38:22] He's an extra dimensional being, right?

[00:38:24] Yeah, he is.

[00:38:24] And from the dark dimension.

[00:38:26] So it's kind of like evil dark dimension.

[00:38:28] Whereas this feels much more like something that, you know, if Captain America arrived and saw a demon here in this room, this feels like something massively different for the MCU.

[00:38:38] Really important to a lot of the stories that we've had in the comics.

[00:38:42] But this is the first time we're seeing a demon.

[00:38:43] This is the first on Earth demon.

[00:38:46] Like this is kind of like hell demon type thing.

[00:38:51] Yeah.

[00:38:51] And it looks like a proper demon.

[00:38:53] Like this is the thing.

[00:38:54] So like it's got the exposed ribs.

[00:38:57] It's got the wings for hands.

[00:38:59] Like it's old school.

[00:39:01] Yeah.

[00:39:02] Renaissance styled demon looking demon.

[00:39:06] And the flames.

[00:39:08] And the flames.

[00:39:09] Yeah.

[00:39:09] So they really led a kind of leaning into you could do a horror film on this.

[00:39:18] Absolutely.

[00:39:19] Now we've had R rated like Deadpool.

[00:39:22] Deadpool.

[00:39:22] I could see them doing where with my knight and man thing.

[00:39:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:39:28] Like who do in the comic books have kind of for that very much more kind of supernatural piece.

[00:39:35] Yeah.

[00:39:36] You could go old school horror horror horror.

[00:39:40] Yeah.

[00:39:40] Like you could see this being like we talked about Sam Raimi.

[00:39:45] You could do a Sam Raimi style.

[00:39:46] Yeah.

[00:39:47] You could Evil Dead.

[00:39:48] Even like Evil Dead Rising which was one of the best Evil Deads by the way.

[00:39:52] That was really good.

[00:39:52] Yep.

[00:39:53] I know that.

[00:39:54] Because that's a horror demon.

[00:39:56] So I was just I was impressed.

[00:39:58] I was expecting.

[00:40:00] I don't know what I was expecting when they kind of like we were going to see it.

[00:40:03] I was expecting a bit more PG-13 demon.

[00:40:06] Right.

[00:40:06] Yeah.

[00:40:07] Like basically Buffy.

[00:40:08] I was expecting a Buffy demon type.

[00:40:10] There will be no there'll be no criticism of Buffy on this podcast.

[00:40:13] Hey back in the day it was fantastic but that was back in the day.

[00:40:17] It still looks pretty damn good.

[00:40:19] Maybe a Doctor Who 1970s space creature.

[00:40:22] Okay.

[00:40:22] That's yes.

[00:40:23] Okay.

[00:40:23] But one of the touches I really loved about this demon was as it goes after each of the

[00:40:28] other coven members.

[00:40:29] It jumps off Alice and I love that moment where she's kind of standing in the circle after

[00:40:34] the task has been given and she goes anybody feel a bit lighter?

[00:40:38] And you're going this demon has been effectively perched on her shoulders since her mother died.

[00:40:42] That's what she's effectively saying here.

[00:40:43] It's an invisible demon as we see a bit later on.

[00:40:46] But as it moves through each of the members of the coven it leaves behind these burning claw

[00:40:51] marks on their shoulders as it's effectively been sitting on their shoulders.

[00:40:54] That's a really cool little touch as it goes through each of them.

[00:40:57] It's almost like a gargoyle.

[00:40:58] Exactly.

[00:40:59] That you get sort of on adorning cathedrals and stuff.

[00:41:02] Until it gets to the teen and then throws him across the room.

[00:41:06] He has a question instantly afterwards where he goes does this mean I'm part of the coven

[00:41:09] because now we have the shared pain and I'm going well no because that didn't happen

[00:41:14] to anybody else.

[00:41:14] You're the only one that was thrown across the room so it's like as if the demon was

[00:41:18] going well hang on a second you're not a witch and got rid of him and moved on to the next

[00:41:22] the next member of the coven.

[00:41:25] Or I shouldn't be cursing you or scarring you for that reason because you're Mephisto.

[00:41:32] Maybe.

[00:41:35] Twink Mephisto.

[00:41:38] Exactly.

[00:41:39] But they realize that they have to fight off the demon and they're going to sing the ballad

[00:41:44] together as a rock band and it's like it's it is really fun.

[00:41:48] I love I love that there is that moment where they're not driving it away and they have to

[00:41:52] shout out play it like a witch.

[00:41:53] You know you have to have to play it harder pray it stronger and Alice has to lead the

[00:41:57] band to sing the song like her mother would have sang it.

[00:42:00] You've got to get a boy band key change in here.

[00:42:03] Exactly.

[00:42:04] Everybody stand off your chairs.

[00:42:08] But I really like this and the version of the song is really good.

[00:42:11] That was cool.

[00:42:12] I enjoyed it.

[00:42:13] Like I think like if we can get like now like a baby metal version and then maybe like a

[00:42:19] folk version and then give us this song in like 20 different versions on Spotify.

[00:42:27] I'm down.

[00:42:27] I'm certain it's coming.

[00:42:29] I mean I'm certainly expecting that that folk version coming in the earth task or the

[00:42:34] trial that's coming up.

[00:42:36] I'm sure we're going to be getting a folk band but it's great.

[00:42:38] It's really good.

[00:42:39] They've done a really good job.

[00:42:40] Yeah absolutely.

[00:42:42] Shall we get on to our spell number four.

[00:42:46] Saving the team because he is injured as he's thrown across the room by the demon.

[00:42:51] Yeah absolutely.

[00:42:52] You've got a massive piece of glass through his through his stomach as they drag him outside

[00:42:56] and you're I think you kind of referenced this earlier on when you were talking Chris about

[00:43:00] the about the death each episode like the end of last episode.

[00:43:04] At the end of the trial the trial have took Sharon and it looks like here it's going to

[00:43:08] take the team even though there's a big mystery there.

[00:43:10] There's no way they're going to write him out of the show.

[00:43:12] But it does feel like maybe the toll of each of the tasks is it's going to take somebody

[00:43:16] even if it doesn't take the person the task is for it may take somebody else.

[00:43:19] So there is a little bit of peril there even though you know logically they can't do it.

[00:43:25] It does feel like maybe they will kill off the team here because there's nothing

[00:43:28] else on the road.

[00:43:29] There's nobody on the road to help them out.

[00:43:31] So they have to rely on their powers and Jen has been saying that she isn't able to use

[00:43:35] her magic to cure to cure him.

[00:43:37] They have to find things and try and do something to cure him.

[00:43:40] But as you say the resurgence of her magic after completing the task last in last episode

[00:43:46] seems to allow her to cure the teen of these of this shard of glass that's inside him.

[00:43:51] As I joked or as we joked in the synopsis her other pair of health care.

[00:43:56] A few bandages.

[00:43:57] Take out the piece of glass.

[00:43:59] Heal him up.

[00:43:59] He'll be ground.

[00:44:00] Well yeah no absolutely.

[00:44:02] Well and also I do like the fact that after they pass the trial it is through the piano

[00:44:08] that is the portal through and to get out of the cabin and back to the witch's road

[00:44:16] is through the piano.

[00:44:18] But yeah I mean I kind of like the fact that Jennifer I'm kind of rooting for Jennifer

[00:44:23] and Lilia and Alice.

[00:44:25] I hope they survive.

[00:44:26] But I do like that Jen sort of saves him with the moonlight and the water.

[00:44:30] Can we just pay respects to the homage they did to a certain Indiana Jones piece here where

[00:44:40] they basically pour some water onto a gaping wound and then rub it away and it's healed.

[00:44:47] I was like well done Disney well done.

[00:44:49] Absolutely.

[00:44:50] Okay.

[00:44:50] That was just a nice that was a nice touch.

[00:44:54] That's from the last crusade Chris.

[00:44:55] Yes.

[00:44:55] Very good.

[00:44:56] Very good.

[00:44:56] Chalice.

[00:44:57] You chose wisely.

[00:44:59] Interesting that they do that in the week that all the Indiana Jones movies have been

[00:45:02] removed from Disney and come back to Paramount isn't it?

[00:45:06] Maybe they'd forgotten or maybe it was just their farewell putting that seed in there.

[00:45:10] It's like we're wiping it away.

[00:45:12] Yeah.

[00:45:12] See you just do wipes away.

[00:45:14] But after the teen is cured while he's resting up there is a conversation between him and Agatha.

[00:45:19] Yeah no because it kind of comes back again.

[00:45:22] You know little snippets here throughout the you know throughout the the the roads.

[00:45:28] Yes there are all the trials and so on but just these little snippets whether it's with

[00:45:31] Agatha and Rio and now with the teen and you know were both Agatha and just and the teen

[00:45:38] and you know talking about the sigil that's on him but that as far as she's aware she doesn't

[00:45:46] remember that she's put the sigil on him but by even if she did she wouldn't know about

[00:45:54] it because the sigil works both on the person where it's been placed but also the person

[00:46:00] who has placed the sigil.

[00:46:01] Yes.

[00:46:02] But we also find that the sigils are destroyed when they're no longer needed.

[00:46:07] So well I guess it comes to the point where you know it depends whether or not this kid

[00:46:15] is somehow related to Agatha which there are hints that he is.

[00:46:21] There's certainly hints that he's not and there's hints about other things or theories.

[00:46:27] I mean we've theorized that he might be Wiccan you know you name it there's the big old red

[00:46:33] guy down in the fiery pit below that something related there.

[00:46:38] The speculation last episode it could be an envoy of Mephisto when Jen said that about

[00:46:43] you know that kind of stuff.

[00:46:44] So there's there's been loads of speculation in the teen is we still don't know and that

[00:46:47] question of him going did you put the sigil on me Agatha and she goes no and even if I

[00:46:52] did I wouldn't know it because of the sigil blocked both of us.

[00:46:55] I think that's really good.

[00:46:58] If betting men where would you put your money right?

[00:47:03] I'd still say Agatha's son or Wanda's son.

[00:47:06] That's my two still.

[00:47:07] Well no you I'm putting you on the spot which are you going is he Wiccan is he Billy is he

[00:47:14] Scratch Nicholas Scratch or do you think he's something else?

[00:47:18] Okay I'm gonna I'm gonna say I think he's Agatha's son.

[00:47:22] Okay so you're going with Scratch.

[00:47:23] I think he's Nicholas Scratch yeah.

[00:47:24] I think he's something else.

[00:47:26] You're going with something else.

[00:47:27] I'm going with something else because I don't think it's Wiccan anymore that was theory from

[00:47:32] the first episode.

[00:47:33] That was from when he was cast basically.

[00:47:35] Yeah but also first episode you're kind of like okay interesting.

[00:47:39] It all depends on what the blooming rabbit is in Agatha's house whether that is just

[00:47:47] a replacement for her the person that she lost and you know is this just like a little is

[00:47:54] this a pet to replace the child that she knows she's had and has lost but I just think he's

[00:48:03] something more.

[00:48:05] Okay.

[00:48:06] Yep.

[00:48:06] Okay.

[00:48:06] How about you Chris?

[00:48:08] I'm going he is Wiccan.

[00:48:10] Okay.

[00:48:11] Right.

[00:48:12] But not Billy.

[00:48:13] Yeah okay.

[00:48:14] So they're just different.

[00:48:15] He is going to be the new Wiccan like basic version similar to what they did say for

[00:48:21] Taskmaster in Black Widow.

[00:48:23] Yeah.

[00:48:23] I mean I hope he's Wiccan.

[00:48:25] I'd love for there to be a Wiccan in the Marvel Universe.

[00:48:28] They are building the young Avengers.

[00:48:31] He will be the Wiccan in the future.

[00:48:33] Okay.

[00:48:33] I think he is a reincarnated piece of Nicholas Scratch's soul in just someone completely

[00:48:42] random.

[00:48:43] He's not Nicholas Scratch.

[00:48:44] He's not actual Agatha's son.

[00:48:48] I think there's like going to be he found a I'm going to make a Harry Potter reference

[00:48:54] Horcrux or something.

[00:48:56] Okay.

[00:48:56] He found something that had a piece of magic that connected.

[00:49:00] So it's that's what that is and he is now that's where his power comes from.

[00:49:07] He is some form of reincarnated kind of connected power whatever and he will be Wiccan.

[00:49:13] He is a witch.

[00:49:14] He is the witch.

[00:49:15] He is going to join Agatha's coven and he will.

[00:49:19] That's how he will be because I think they're leaning in to go is he not and they're now they're

[00:49:24] essentially pushing that no he's not he's not going to be the son.

[00:49:28] The son is no more.

[00:49:30] See that's that's the reason why I look and I'm not as definitive on it as you Chris.

[00:49:34] I'm not as definitive about who his character is going to be in the future even but I feel

[00:49:38] like the whole storyline has been that Agatha is getting more and more and more protective

[00:49:43] of the team whether she knows why or not is the question.

[00:49:47] So when he asked that that to her did you put the spell on me and she says well no or

[00:49:52] I wouldn't know even if I did that makes me kind of go oh he's definitely your son and she

[00:49:56] was trying to protect him and trying to keep him away but she didn't know why when he arrived

[00:50:00] and took him on the journey on the road to protect him.

[00:50:03] So that's why I think it's still her son and I think Rio is actually trying to break the

[00:50:09] two of them apart to protect the team because of her relationship with Agatha.

[00:50:14] That could be yeah.

[00:50:15] Yeah.

[00:50:15] I think she's telling her he's not your son because she's trying to say get him away from

[00:50:20] you.

[00:50:20] You don't need you shouldn't take care of this kid get him away from you.

[00:50:23] Stop being as protective of him or something like that.

[00:50:26] So so I don't know but I still think right now this there's just been so many moments

[00:50:31] throughout these episodes where if anything happens to the team she gets really hit up almost

[00:50:37] instinctively.

[00:50:38] Oh absolutely yeah.

[00:50:39] She says don't do this to Rio.

[00:50:42] Yeah.

[00:50:42] Take like she basically talks directly to Rio about something this so there's way more

[00:50:49] between the two knowledge about it.

[00:50:51] Certainly in this episode.

[00:50:53] And even in that conversation the way it ends is the team says can you tell me what happened

[00:50:58] to your son and she stops talking to him and walks away.

[00:51:01] And when I watched that I was going is that a reaction to the fact that she has blocked

[00:51:05] something out of her mind or does she just not want to talk about her son.

[00:51:08] You know it's I wonder which one of which one it actually is.

[00:51:12] So these things are the things that will be filled out in the other five episodes of the

[00:51:16] show.

[00:51:16] So so yeah it's a it's still an intriguing mystery and I'm enjoying and I'm enjoying

[00:51:21] them kind of rug pulling out from underneath as well.

[00:51:23] That's it's it's it's a great way to deal with your central mystery if that's if that's

[00:51:28] the way they're going to do it.

[00:51:28] So been enjoying it so far.

[00:51:30] Anything else about saving the team?

[00:51:31] Anything else about about those conversations at all?

[00:51:34] No nothing from me.

[00:51:35] I think on to spell number five and comparing battle scars.

[00:51:41] Oh I love this.

[00:51:42] This is a staple of 80s action movies where we have the team coming together as a group

[00:51:47] as they start to compare all the things they've gone through in the past and each of them compare

[00:51:52] their battle scars and I think there's some really interesting ones.

[00:51:55] We mentioned about demons here being mentioned and being shown for the first time in this

[00:51:59] episode but also we hear Lilia talking about one of her battle scars and it's from a vampire.

[00:52:04] So Blade has been in the MCU in the past so vampires are there but the vampire bite that she

[00:52:10] has confirms that in the actual MCU now we will have vampires at some point in the future

[00:52:15] and she's met them in the past.

[00:52:16] Yeah.

[00:52:17] So they've been around a very long time apparently.

[00:52:19] Well Kingo in the Eternals did mention vampires but I think we were thought expecting it was

[00:52:26] a bit of a joke and then on top of that the Black Knight in the Eternals is known to work

[00:52:33] predominantly in the comic books on fighting vampires and then that leads into Blade.

[00:52:39] Yeah that was the setup at the end of that two second scene of Black Knight was supposed

[00:52:43] to set up but this is the first mention of a vampire attack I suppose.

[00:52:49] Yeah it's exactly there.

[00:52:49] But yeah there's also in Werewolf by Night there's vampires all over the place.

[00:52:54] Lots of vampire trophies in the mansion in Werewolf by Night so there's been mentions in

[00:52:59] the past but again these are all supposed to be setting up Blade being out there in the world

[00:53:03] of the MCU whether that movie will ever get made.

[00:53:06] Or is it?

[00:53:07] Or not we still don't know but I was really hopeful really hopeful.

[00:53:11] Well Wesley Snipes did say he'd come back again if he was asked.

[00:53:15] That would be awesome.

[00:53:17] I prefer him rehearsal early to be honest.

[00:53:18] Oh me too but.

[00:53:20] Wesley Snipes good in a comedy movie for 10 minutes absolutely fine.

[00:53:23] Wesley Snipes kicked it all off.

[00:53:25] Kind of yes he did yeah.

[00:53:27] Yeah.

[00:53:27] Or was it David Hasselhoff?

[00:53:29] It was David Hasselhoff yes.

[00:53:31] I don't know.

[00:53:32] Was it Thingy for Egg now?

[00:53:35] Well if we're going back to the 70s we're going back to the original Spider-Man so yeah

[00:53:41] that's where it all started but no connection to the MCU he might have been in Deadpool Wolverine

[00:53:46] but I don't think that movie's ever happening.

[00:53:48] I would be absolutely shocked if it happens but he may have an appearance in the Murshali movie.

[00:53:54] Anyway back to the battle scars themselves.

[00:53:58] This is where we hear the story about Jen and when it happened to her when she was bound back in the 1800s.

[00:54:07] Alice has kind of already talked about her scars which are the shoulder scars that she got from the curse

[00:54:11] and then Rio talks about hers and her scar is that she had a mission to achieve

[00:54:20] and that mission hurt somebody that she loved so the scar is the person that she's with

[00:54:25] and that very obviously by the reaction of Agatha is Agatha.

[00:54:29] That she is effectively apologizing to Agatha for what she did to her in the past

[00:54:34] which is quite a shock given their relationship over the last couple of episodes.

[00:54:39] Yeah I mean well I think as well it almost goes you know she says Rio's scar is effectively that she loved somebody

[00:54:47] that she had to betray because of having to do a job and that person is her scar.

[00:54:56] Yeah.

[00:54:57] Hence the weirdness between the two of them.

[00:55:01] Exactly.

[00:55:01] Which you know comes out a bit further when Rio follows Agatha.

[00:55:09] You know but it is kind of you know they're all talking about these superficial scars from vampires teeth

[00:55:18] or from knitting needles as Agatha talks about but this is deep rooted in the heart and soul of the Green Witch.

[00:55:30] So yeah be interesting.

[00:55:32] Yeah.

[00:55:33] Is this why she's on her mission?

[00:55:36] It absolutely is and you know if you go all the way back to the first episode when we first met

[00:55:40] the character of Rio speaking to Agatha.

[00:55:44] Rio tells Agatha you hate me don't you but you don't know why.

[00:55:48] And that you know that sounds like heartbreak right?

[00:55:50] That sounds like a bad breakup.

[00:55:52] And even in that moment when Rio follows Agatha out to the woods after this conversation

[00:55:57] Agatha still reaches in for a kiss thinking that they're getting closer again.

[00:56:03] And Rio stops her saying the boy is not your son.

[00:56:05] The teen is not your child.

[00:56:07] So there is that blocker from Rio almost.

[00:56:11] They've gone through a really bad situation and Rio doesn't want to start that back up again right now.

[00:56:17] Probably because Agatha has such a missing portion of her abilities and still some missing pieces of the past again.

[00:56:25] That's what it feels like.

[00:56:26] Yeah.

[00:56:27] I wholeheartedly agree.

[00:56:29] My assumption is that Rio and Agatha were part of the original coven because we know Agatha's OG coven was killed.

[00:56:39] She killed her original coven.

[00:56:42] Basically they are no more no less.

[00:56:45] Yeah.

[00:56:45] And I think if she was part of the original coven, maybe this is back in the original witch trials.

[00:56:55] I think having a relationship of this style between two women back in those days.

[00:57:04] Oh boy, that's witchcraft.

[00:57:06] Well, that would have been put to death level witchcraft.

[00:57:10] Well, I would say, historically speaking, Chris, that was what was called witchcraft.

[00:57:16] And that would have led to a lot of lesbians being killed back in those times.

[00:57:21] Like it wasn't even, you know, that would be enough to say they're witches that killed them.

[00:57:25] So sadly that is part of history.

[00:57:27] Yeah.

[00:57:28] Yeah.

[00:57:28] So I think what we may get is some form of they were in a relationship back in the day.

[00:57:36] Like they were part of the OG covens.

[00:57:39] They were like lovers.

[00:57:42] They went down.

[00:57:43] They got to the end of the road.

[00:57:47] And Agatha chose the dark old and power over Rio and her son.

[00:57:55] Yeah.

[00:57:56] But that's what it's going to be.

[00:57:58] And I guess like the also the consequences of that probably shown in season one with Agatha taking the other coven witch's powers.

[00:58:11] Her mother and the rest of her coven.

[00:58:13] So it's also there's that.

[00:58:16] So maybe the job was that she wasn't there.

[00:58:19] It should have been, but also killed the rest of her coven as much as I mean, I don't know.

[00:58:24] But it's certainly that moment where she destroys the coven, Agatha, that we see in season one to get their powers.

[00:58:31] To get their powers.

[00:58:33] But that's also what she does.

[00:58:35] That's her witchcraft is that she absorbs other powers.

[00:58:40] Yeah.

[00:58:40] There's nothing to say that we show that exact scene.

[00:58:44] And one of the people is Rio, but she didn't fully die.

[00:58:49] Yeah, possibly.

[00:58:50] Or one of the people, Rio is walking behind a tree.

[00:58:56] And she like, Rio basically was a few minutes late and they subbed her in and she's like, she walks up and comes upon Agatha and has killed all the coven.

[00:59:07] She's like, what did you do?

[00:59:09] Maybe, but I will say the one thing that's kind of against that is the Salem Seven who we saw for a brief second back in episode two.

[00:59:18] The Salem Seven who are on the trail of Agatha.

[00:59:21] Yeah.

[00:59:21] Those were the seven members of the coven that Agatha killed in WandaVision that we saw killed in WandaVision.

[00:59:26] There were seven members.

[00:59:27] They're the ones that are on the trail.

[00:59:29] And Rio said she wanted to get out of their way.

[00:59:31] She didn't want to be here when the Salem Seven arrived.

[00:59:33] So I think you're very close to something, Chris.

[00:59:36] I think it's entirely possible that Rio was involved in the death of the seven and was backing up Agatha.

[00:59:41] And maybe that's why she wanted to get out of the way before they arrived to punish Agatha.

[00:59:44] Because she's like, I'm not getting back involved with that thing.

[00:59:47] That's entirely possible.

[00:59:48] But yeah, she killed them all to take their powers.

[00:59:52] So I think she has to kill them.

[00:59:54] And she probably would have known pretty quickly if she didn't get all of Rio's power.

[00:59:58] I do wonder, though, at the end of the road, because that journey in the ballad is a little bit vague, as we've talked about before.

[01:00:07] I do wonder if there's only one prize at the end of the road.

[01:00:10] And Agatha took it last time they were on the road at Rio.

[01:00:14] Or Rio took it the last time they were on the road.

[01:00:17] Because of Agatha being so vague about how they get to the end altogether.

[01:00:21] I don't think it's like one wish is granted for everybody.

[01:00:23] I think there's one wish and Agatha wants to be there first and get it first.

[01:00:28] She was pretty willing to leave behind the teen and Alice while they were burying Mrs. Hart at the beginning of the episode.

[01:00:33] She was pretty willing to run on down the road on her own before anybody else caught up with her.

[01:00:38] But as long as she had a few people with her to keep her going through the trials,

[01:00:42] I just thought that's an interesting thing to follow as we go through the episodes.

[01:00:46] Anything else about the battle scars discussion?

[01:00:49] Or should we move on to notes?

[01:00:51] No, I think we can move on to notes.

[01:00:53] Because I've got one which is kind of related to the battle scars, which is Agatha's battle scar.

[01:00:57] Agatha talks about the, as you mentioned earlier on, the knitting needle that she was stabbed with.

[01:01:01] And says, ever heard of the Daughters of Liberty?

[01:01:04] And the rest of the coven kind of go, no.

[01:01:06] She goes, well, exactly.

[01:01:07] That's what happened to them, basically.

[01:01:08] So saying that she killed off the Daughters of Liberty.

[01:01:10] In real history, the Daughters of Liberty worked during the American Revolution.

[01:01:15] There were the female supporters of the Americans blocking textiles from coming in,

[01:01:20] which is the reason for that needle mention that Agatha has.

[01:01:23] But in comic books, Agatha is actually sort of a member of the Daughters of Liberty.

[01:01:28] It was only pretty recently created by Tana Heshy Coates in the Captain America run.

[01:01:32] And the Daughters of Liberty are led by Sharon Carter.

[01:01:37] In MCU, she's much more like Peggy Carter.

[01:01:40] She does a lot more comic books.

[01:01:42] But that's their leader.

[01:01:44] And Agatha came in and trained them in magic, while Sharon Carter trained them in fighting, effectively.

[01:01:52] But they have some really interesting members, which is why I'm mentioning it.

[01:01:55] Some of the members include Echo, Black Widow, Misty Knight, White Tiger, who's going to be coming up in one of the new MCU movies.

[01:02:03] And Agatha Harkness herself, all members of this team of the Daughters of Liberty.

[01:02:07] So just really interesting that they, I think the writers probably mentioned it more from the historic perspective.

[01:02:12] Because again, showing how old these characters are.

[01:02:15] But interesting that in the comic books, Agatha Harkness is actually a member of a group called the Daughters of Liberty.

[01:02:22] Yeah, that's cool.

[01:02:23] Yeah, that's great.

[01:02:25] I think my only note is that, again, Battlesquare is very, we talked about 80s actions.

[01:02:31] It just reminds me of Jaws, the scene in Jaws.

[01:02:33] There you go.

[01:02:34] Yeah.

[01:02:34] That was just, I felt it was like, okay, that's what they're playing on now.

[01:02:38] But they're all sitting around on the boat in this and this.

[01:02:43] It's a campfire.

[01:02:44] Yeah.

[01:02:44] Just a nice homage.

[01:02:48] Absolutely.

[01:02:48] Absolutely.

[01:02:49] Any other notes?

[01:02:49] Anything else you want to leave?

[01:02:50] I want to talk a bit before we go?

[01:02:53] Nothing I said.

[01:02:54] No, nothing for me.

[01:02:55] All right then, Chris, since it's your first time back, do you defend Agatha all along episode four?

[01:03:01] Yes.

[01:03:01] So much so I will not even attempt to sing.

[01:03:06] Excellent, Chris.

[01:03:07] That's our reward.

[01:03:08] On the road.

[01:03:08] Everybody's reward.

[01:03:09] Exactly.

[01:03:10] Because I want to save everyone's eardrums.

[01:03:14] I'm loving this episode.

[01:03:16] I'm loving the show.

[01:03:18] It's flashes of horror, flashes of MCU, witty delivery by Rio.

[01:03:29] Like Agatha.

[01:03:32] And again, I jokingly called it AAA.

[01:03:35] It is AAA.

[01:03:36] It's Agatha long, but it is AAA quality content here.

[01:03:41] Like it's, again, it's a spinoff character of a show that we are like, and to me, it's already to this point.

[01:03:48] It's up there in the top five TV shows for me.

[01:03:51] Excellent.

[01:03:52] Like it's, and it's high, but right pretty close to Wanda itself.

[01:03:56] Right.

[01:03:56] Um, so because it can, it's just, they nail the characters.

[01:04:00] They nail the aesthetic, which I don't think, I haven't called out, but like the witch's road is beautiful to look.

[01:04:08] Gorgeous.

[01:04:09] Yeah.

[01:04:09] Absolutely.

[01:04:10] I think it's a proper practical set as well, by the looks of most of it.

[01:04:13] Yeah.

[01:04:13] Because when you see Aubrey Plaza do her little kind of skip down the, the yellow brick, I mean, witch's road.

[01:04:21] Yep.

[01:04:22] Um, barefooted just invoking these old shows, old TV movies, like everything, just pulling it together.

[01:04:30] So absolutely defended, just quality content.

[01:04:34] Excellent.

[01:04:35] Excellent.

[01:04:35] Glad you're enjoying it.

[01:04:36] Chris, how about yourself, John?

[01:04:36] Do you defend Agatha all along episode four?

[01:04:38] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:04:39] Love this episode.

[01:04:40] I'd give it four and a half Liberace lullivies out of five.

[01:04:45] I just thought it was really, really good.

[01:04:48] And I think it's because like, I'm really invested.

[01:04:51] Yes.

[01:04:51] In the main storyline, but I think ultimately the peripheral quote, uh, witches of Jennifer, Alice and Lillia, um, are just really, really good.

[01:05:03] Um, and I think that's what's so good about the show.

[01:05:06] But I think as like Chris said, you know, Agatha was nailed in WandaVision.

[01:05:10] Absolutely.

[01:05:11] It continues here, but she's being surrounded by equally great, um, sort of co-stars, um, to work with her.

[01:05:22] And I just think this coven is one that you just, you're kind of with them on the road, wanting them to pass these trials.

[01:05:29] It's really, really good.

[01:05:31] Um, and I thought this one was really good with Alice.

[01:05:34] It felt much more personal, uh, for sure.

[01:05:37] And I think that's because there's still an element of intrigue, which I'm sure we might get to see with Jennifer.

[01:05:45] As we say, we, you know, in a sense, her story feels like it's continued.

[01:05:49] Yes, she's done her trial, but her story is continued, which is nice.

[01:05:54] Um, in this episode with the talk about, you know, she doesn't know how she's been bound.

[01:06:00] The fact that actually it seems as though her power, um, has, or her instinct for her power of potions is becoming, um, much quicker.

[01:06:14] Like the recall of it compared to what we saw in the previous, um, episode.

[01:06:19] So I really, really enjoying this.

[01:06:21] Um, the introduction of Rio, um, is just great chaotic writing.

[01:06:27] Okay.

[01:06:28] Um, because as well, Aubrey Plaza is just, I think just nailed this kind of character.

[01:06:33] Absolutely.

[01:06:34] You know, needles, Agatha, that relationship.

[01:06:37] It's just, it's tense.

[01:06:40] It's weird.

[01:06:41] It's, it's just really good.

[01:06:42] And I like how she's back in the mix.

[01:06:45] Yep.

[01:06:45] So for me, absolutely defend this episode.

[01:06:48] Um, I'd give it four and a half.

[01:06:51] Liberace lullabies out of five.

[01:06:53] Um, just to keep that seventies theme going.

[01:06:56] I love it.

[01:06:56] I love it.

[01:06:57] I love it.

[01:06:57] Yeah.

[01:06:58] I absolutely defend this as well.

[01:07:00] This is really good fun show.

[01:07:01] I'm loving it, especially because the other two shows that we're podcasting at the moment.

[01:07:04] And it's coming up to Halloween.

[01:07:07] October started.

[01:07:08] So we're starting watching lots of horror movies.

[01:07:10] So having Agatha turn on, uh, on Thursday mornings is, is great fun.

[01:07:14] It's been a really, really enjoyable to watch and a little bit of horror in there.

[01:07:18] And interestingly, another news article that came out this week.

[01:07:21] Um, this is actually one of the most cheaply produced MCU shows.

[01:07:26] It's had the lowest budget.

[01:07:27] It had a lower budget than Echo did.

[01:07:29] The five episode series that was supposed to be six episodes and had the budget cut down.

[01:07:33] Um, so apparently with the number of viewers that are on it, which is, I think, 301 million, um, minutes watched, which is, I guess, 100 million viewers.

[01:07:42] Uh, if that's right, about 30 minutes to the episode.

[01:07:44] So that is massively successful for Disney.

[01:07:48] They've kept the budget low and they have loads of people tuning in to watch.

[01:07:51] They've found an audience that really wants to watch these characters and I can see why it is the characters.

[01:07:57] Every single member of that cast is working so hard to really entertain the audience.

[01:08:03] And it's been so much fun to watch.

[01:08:04] It's so different and it's exactly the kind of thing I want to watch right now alongside all the other shows that I'm watching.

[01:08:09] So, uh, really enjoying it.

[01:08:10] Highly defend, uh, this episode of Agatha all along and I'm really enjoying the series.

[01:08:14] Looking forward to next week's episode.

[01:08:16] Excellent.

[01:08:17] Hey, Chris, it's been a while since we went for a drink.

[01:08:19] Do you want to go to the pub?

[01:08:19] Yes, I do.

[01:08:22] As long as it's a good brew.

[01:08:24] A witcher brew.

[01:08:25] Absolutely.

[01:08:26] I think you might be in luck here, Chris, uh, because fellow quizzers and fellow defenders,

[01:08:32] we are at the Agatha all along cauldron quiz.

[01:08:38] Yes.

[01:08:39] I have newt leg of frog.

[01:08:42] In it goes to create that potent absinthe type, uh, vol, shall we say?

[01:08:48] So you mean it's going to taste like IPA?

[01:08:51] Yeah, toenails, basically.

[01:08:53] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:08:54] Uh, crusty toenails and warty noses, uh, sort of bitter.

[01:09:00] Okay, should we get on to this week's question?

[01:09:02] Yes, let us get on to episode four, question four.

[01:09:07] What three instruments does Lilia play in the rock covens version of the ballad?

[01:09:15] This is the one that evolved.

[01:09:17] It is.

[01:09:17] It is three points.

[01:09:18] Yes, yes, it is.

[01:09:19] To give a massive clue.

[01:09:21] Excellent.

[01:09:21] Excellent.

[01:09:22] Um, yeah, because, uh, Lilia does say one out loud.

[01:09:25] And then as you watch her play the ballad, uh, she changes instruments quite a lot.

[01:09:29] So, uh, it's a good check there.

[01:09:31] She certainly is.

[01:09:31] I think percussionists are.

[01:09:33] Mm, mm, give it loads of hints this time, Sam.

[01:09:35] Tons of hints.

[01:09:36] Do you want to give the question one more time?

[01:09:38] Yes.

[01:09:38] What three instruments does Lilia play in the rock covens version of the ballad?

[01:09:45] Fantastic.

[01:09:45] That's the fourth question.

[01:09:46] Get all of your answers together at emails at the end of the series to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com

[01:09:52] with the correct answers.

[01:09:53] And you could be in with a chance of getting your hands on some Agatha all along goodies.

[01:09:57] Yes, mustard seeds.

[01:09:58] Hopefully something better than mustard seeds.

[01:10:00] I wonder they're eyes of youth.

[01:10:01] They are eyes of youth though.

[01:10:02] Let's hear what our fellow witches have to say about this episode.

[01:10:06] Let's go over to our feedback section.

[01:10:08] Over to the mailbag.

[01:10:09] First up, we have an email in from Elizabeth Merritt who said,

[01:10:12] Greetings, Derek, John and Chris.

[01:10:14] I am so glad you're covering Agatha all along.

[01:10:16] Not having watched WandaVision, I'm playing a little bit of catch up and your commentary

[01:10:19] helps fill in the gaps.

[01:10:21] Two theories I'd like to throw into the cauldron after episode three for your consideration.

[01:10:24] Theory one, Agatha has not traveled the witch's road before.

[01:10:27] As far as I can remember, she has not offered any personal anecdotes from her supposed prior

[01:10:31] journey.

[01:10:32] This is what happened last time.

[01:10:34] In my experience, she only refers to the song.

[01:10:37] Frankly, the teen seems to know more about the road than she does.

[01:10:40] I think she's bluffing.

[01:10:41] Theory two, Sharon Davis, aka Mrs. Hart, is in fact a witch.

[01:10:45] Whereas the other coven members have had their powers blocked or diminished, her challenge

[01:10:49] is that she doesn't even know she has power.

[01:10:51] Supporting evidence, it is evident from her garden in Westview that she really does have

[01:10:55] a green thumb.

[01:10:56] As to whether she is dead, is it a coincidence that her real name is Sharon?

[01:11:00] In Greek mythology, Sharon, slightly different spelling, ferries the souls of the dead over

[01:11:04] the river Styx.

[01:11:06] Maybe she will reanimate in the next episode and help guide the coven down the witch's road.

[01:11:10] Looking forward to the next stage of this journey with you.

[01:11:12] Barefoot Badger.

[01:11:13] I took my shoes off for the road.

[01:11:16] Excellent stuff.

[01:11:17] Thanks so much for your feedback there.

[01:11:20] Now, I know we've seen the next episode.

[01:11:23] This came in after episode three.

[01:11:24] I know we've seen the next episode.

[01:11:25] We see what happens to Sharon there.

[01:11:26] But is it possible that she will reanimate next episode and continue on the road with

[01:11:33] the coven?

[01:11:34] Is it possible?

[01:11:35] I still think it's possible that something will happen.

[01:11:40] I just say, I don't think we're going to be on the witch's road for the whole remainder

[01:11:46] of the season.

[01:11:48] Yeah.

[01:11:48] There's loads of questions.

[01:11:50] In anything mystical, witchy, whatever, quite a lot of things can happen beyond the normal.

[01:11:56] So, it could be very much in the guise of the theory that Elizabeth says here around Sharon.

[01:12:06] And I really like the idea that maybe she doesn't know she has the power.

[01:12:13] The others are blocked.

[01:12:14] They knew they had the power.

[01:12:15] So, it's kind of in that same sort of ballpark, really.

[01:12:19] It's from Agatha at the start of the series.

[01:12:21] Yeah.

[01:12:21] I also like your first theory as well.

[01:12:24] Maybe because he is more intimate about it because he's some kind of bigger bad or bigger

[01:12:33] good or bigger demon or bigger something that knows more about it.

[01:12:37] And that maybe Agatha is just bluffing.

[01:12:40] Agatha has always liked a good bluff.

[01:12:43] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:12:44] I love that the idea could be that Agatha keeps telling other covens, we're going down

[01:12:48] the witch's road and then stealing all their powers.

[01:12:50] And then says, yeah, yeah, I was down in the witch's road.

[01:12:52] But that's actually just a thing she does.

[01:12:54] She lies to them, takes them to a place and steals their powers like she tried to do with

[01:12:58] this coven in episode two.

[01:13:00] That she's never actually been in the road herself.

[01:13:01] I love that idea.

[01:13:03] I do like that.

[01:13:04] I don't think so.

[01:13:08] But I like the idea that there's definitely a level of bluffing.

[01:13:13] And lying throughout everything she does, as you said.

[01:13:17] Yeah, it just feels like if you'd been on the road before, you'd have a bit more guidance.

[01:13:21] And her guidance was don't step off the witch's road.

[01:13:23] You know, that was kind of the only thing that she said.

[01:13:26] And you can't go back once you've started.

[01:13:27] That's kind of all she said so far.

[01:13:29] And she cheated on the first trial, right?

[01:13:32] She didn't even complete the first trial.

[01:13:33] She tried to cheat until they forced her to participate.

[01:13:36] So did she cheat all the way through the last time she was on the road?

[01:13:40] You know, as we discussed previously, you know?

[01:13:43] Or are you even able to?

[01:13:45] Are you just stuck in that house?

[01:13:46] If you never start the wine, it's only by virtue of the fact that others were there and drank the wine.

[01:13:53] That if no one drank the wine, it doesn't start.

[01:13:57] So it never finishes.

[01:13:59] But the point is, Agatha has been on the road before.

[01:14:01] And she's the one that tried to cheat it.

[01:14:03] Why did she try to cheat it if she knew you had to complete each task to go ahead?

[01:14:07] Or insider knowledge, maybe.

[01:14:09] Or just messing.

[01:14:11] Or maybe she believes the only person that actually had to complete it was the witch that the task was for.

[01:14:17] So maybe it was that.

[01:14:19] But very interesting theories.

[01:14:21] Great stuff.

[01:14:21] Thanks, Elizabeth.

[01:14:22] Yeah, thanks, Elizabeth.

[01:14:23] Thanks, Elizabeth.

[01:14:24] And next up, an email from Coffee and Vodka.

[01:14:28] Greetings, fellow far-out defenders.

[01:14:30] Now, there's a pad I could groove in, absent the curse.

[01:14:35] Inasmuch as the rest of the Coven is great, Rio provided a much-needed shot in the arm.

[01:14:40] Between her and the teen, pushing along the narrative and providing much of the humour and pathos,

[01:14:46] not that Agatha needs any help in either regard, they made this episode.

[01:14:51] Despite it being all about Alice.

[01:14:54] And whether or not Alice finds her mother, should she survive, she found her peace.

[01:15:00] Without dying, a nice plus.

[01:15:01] Otherwise, it does seem the episodic pattern is set in.

[01:15:06] Which is fine.

[01:15:07] Though a rupless Coven is a sadder one.

[01:15:09] Finally, I heard an interesting theory that the big bad in sheep's clothing is actually the teen.

[01:15:16] It kind of makes sense.

[01:15:18] So far, he's been the one driving events forward in ways subtle and, in this episode, obvious.

[01:15:25] Unless, of course, he really is Wiccan.

[01:15:28] What are your theories?

[01:15:29] 4.5 on fire, 45s, fab fashions and satanic studios out of five.

[01:15:38] Peace and take care.

[01:15:39] Coffee and vodka.

[01:15:40] Fantastic.

[01:15:41] Yeah, great stuff, coffee and vodka.

[01:15:43] That is a good theory and I like it, actually.

[01:15:47] You are, in many respects, right.

[01:15:49] In fact, one of the things from this episode I was thinking was the fact that they're using the teen's notebook

[01:15:55] for the spell to bring the green witch up or down to the witch's road.

[01:16:02] Yeah.

[01:16:03] And I kind of feel that would be quite powerful given what they had to do to get to the witch's road in the first place.

[01:16:11] So, interestingly, certainly, you know, the teen is massively intriguing.

[01:16:17] Certainly, you could say he could be the big bad or just a big character.

[01:16:25] But it's an interesting one, yeah.

[01:16:27] It makes sense, in fact, to be honest.

[01:16:29] Yeah.

[01:16:30] It's a very interesting theory, yeah.

[01:16:31] And he was the one that put the record on and played it backwards, which only demons do.

[01:16:36] No, that's just a 70s thing.

[01:16:38] But he did put the record on.

[01:16:40] He's the one that played it and started off the whole task this time.

[01:16:44] So, yeah, I wonder if he is...

[01:16:46] Well, we know he plays a bigger role.

[01:16:48] He can't just be the teen.

[01:16:50] There has to be something bigger about him.

[01:16:51] Could be a rabbit.

[01:16:52] When's that flip going to happen?

[01:16:54] Is it episode six and everything flips and then the last three episodes are up against the teen and whoever his new character is.

[01:16:59] It will be really interesting to see.

[01:17:01] Have they got the rights?

[01:17:03] No, they haven't.

[01:17:04] That's Warner Brothers.

[01:17:05] Because he could just say, hey, what's up, Doc?

[01:17:08] He's Bugs Bunny, you think.

[01:17:10] Yeah, but a senor scratcher.

[01:17:11] It definitely wouldn't be something that they have the rights to.

[01:17:15] Thanks, Coffee and Vodka.

[01:17:16] We also have some feedback over on The Book of Faces.

[01:17:20] Yes, the Facebook.

[01:17:21] First up, Danielle Dement Jost had this to say.

[01:17:25] This was by far my favorite episode yet.

[01:17:27] The costumes were fantastic and the sequence with Alice facing the curse in the form of a flaming flying demon was really cool.

[01:17:35] It was also an emotional and moving episode with some really touching moments.

[01:17:41] Thanks, Danielle.

[01:17:42] I didn't even mention the costumes.

[01:17:44] Like, the costumes for when they do the 70s change, amazing.

[01:17:48] But even if you look at Rio's costume for when she comes out of the grave, like, it looks like it's like part of being Green Witch is like almost like this flora, fauna, moss covered kind of top.

[01:18:03] It will be really part of the green, leaning into the green.

[01:18:08] Yeah, no costumes are amazing.

[01:18:10] So cool.

[01:18:11] Yeah, really, really gorgeous.

[01:18:13] Like, they've done such a great job.

[01:18:14] And again, taking references from famous people from the 70s and putting them on these characters is really cool to do.

[01:18:20] It just gets me wondering what they're going to do next.

[01:18:22] You know, we thought that after the first episode, that allusion to true crime dramas and to Mare of Easttown was going to be the only thing they do.

[01:18:31] And then they just move on from that idea.

[01:18:33] And they found a way every episode here to incorporate a similar style that we saw in WandaVision with the reference to comedy shows some different way each time.

[01:18:40] And this time it was music from the 70s and bands from the 70s.

[01:18:43] So they found a way.

[01:18:44] What are they going to do next?

[01:18:45] What's next week going to be?

[01:18:46] You know, it's cool.

[01:18:46] Yeah, excellent stuff.

[01:18:48] Thanks, Danielle.

[01:18:48] Thanks, Danielle.

[01:18:49] Also on Facebook, Brandy Mueller says, I had a feeling Rio would be the Green Witch.

[01:18:53] Glad to see Aubrey back.

[01:18:54] I cannot wait to see her and Agatha's past and present story unravel in front of us.

[01:18:59] I absolutely loved this version of the song.

[01:19:01] It's the best.

[01:19:01] I'll be singing it all day.

[01:19:03] I also agree.

[01:19:04] The costumes were killer.

[01:19:05] And I think if there is a documentary of the Partridge family, the team should play David Cassidy.

[01:19:10] See, he definitely was wearing the David Cassidy costume in the episode.

[01:19:14] It's really interesting because, you know, again, we've watched him in Heartstopper for two seasons now and have seen him in that for so many years as this quiet, shy British character.

[01:19:25] And here he is playing this American teen now.

[01:19:27] And he's fitting into the role really well for me.

[01:19:30] It's interesting that you're casting him in other American teen roles, you know, because he's been so associated with Heartstopper since he really began his career there that it's interesting that we're now seeing him in other things.

[01:19:42] That's great.

[01:19:43] Absolutely.

[01:19:43] And probably or could be one of the reasons for Agatha's success as fandoms collide.

[01:19:50] Sure.

[01:19:50] Yeah.

[01:19:50] Heartstopper is huge.

[01:19:52] Absolutely.

[01:19:52] Absolutely huge.

[01:19:53] So lots of their fans watching the show as well.

[01:19:56] So really cool.

[01:19:57] Yeah.

[01:19:57] Thanks so much, Brandy.

[01:19:59] Absolutely.

[01:20:00] Thanks, Brandy.

[01:20:01] Thanks, Brandy.

[01:20:02] Excellent.

[01:20:02] Thank you so much for all of your feedback.

[01:20:04] If you want to email us, you can email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or pop on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries.

[01:20:12] We'd love to hear your thoughts about Agatha all along the rest of the series.

[01:20:15] And we'll be back with you next week for episode five, which airs on the 9th of October on Disney+.

[01:20:21] Yes.

[01:20:22] Welcome to the rest of the spooky season.

[01:20:27] The best season.

[01:20:29] Absolutely.

[01:20:29] Absolutely.

[01:20:31] It's all birthdays this month as well.

[01:20:32] I know.

[01:20:33] It is.

[01:20:34] It is.

[01:20:35] What are we going to get each other?

[01:20:37] More Agatha.

[01:20:38] Exactly.

[01:20:39] More podcasts.

[01:20:40] Exactly.

[01:20:40] I can guarantee you more podcasts and more editing for me is my own personal gift.

[01:20:45] But it's great to be back with all three of us for Agatha all along.

[01:20:48] Hopefully we can be back again next week.

[01:20:49] If you also want to check out our coverage of the other shows that we're covering at the moment, Rings of Power, the final episode.

[01:20:56] We should have that out in the next couple of days.

[01:20:58] And our continuing coverage of The Penguin, episode three, will be out next week.

[01:21:01] Come and join us over on tvpodcastindustries.com for any of those shows as well.

[01:21:05] Yes, absolutely.

[01:21:07] Absolutely.

[01:21:07] Loads of content on TV podcast industries.

[01:21:11] Please as well remember, fellow defenders, not only to subscribe but also to share the podcast because sharing the podcast is of course sharing the spooky love.

[01:21:23] Thanks so much and we'll speak to you again soon.

[01:21:26] Bye.

[01:21:26] Yeah, thanks so much fellow defenders for joining us.

[01:21:29] Until next time, keep watching, keep listening and of course keep defending.

[01:21:34] Bye.

[01:21:35] Bye.

[01:21:37] Bye.

[01:21:41] Bye.

[01:21:42] Bye.

[01:21:46] Bye.