Lanterns Episode 5 Review

[00:00:00] This is the Lanterns Podcast on TV Podcast Industries. We're back for the Lanterns Episode 5, Lights Out.

[00:00:35] I'm going to count on you.

[00:01:07] Welcome back fellow guardians to the fifth episode of Lanterns Lights Out on TV Podcast Industries. I am one of your hosts, Derek O'Neill. Hello there fellow lanterns and fellow guardians and fellow Chris's. I'm your other host, John Harrison. And rounding out the trio to bring order and balance to the emotional spectrum, I am Chris. Welcome back to Pastor Chris Gordon. Yes, Pastor Chris Gordon hasn't been with us for a couple of weeks. Feeling much better now, hopefully, Pastor Chris Gordon.

[00:01:35] I am. Thank you. Yes, I am. The Sinestro Corps tried to take me out, but you know, I just went, I went, I went with the ride and just came back. My crystalline heart is, is good. Well, welcome back. We are delighted to have you back. And what an episode to come back for. How have you been enjoying the series since the last time you were on? Absolutely loving it. And again, this is the penultimate episode, right? You know, like we, it's all done and dusted.

[00:02:01] Like we don't have much more to discuss next week or next week is the wrap up. And yeah, no, absolutely loving this. This has been my, this is my much, must watch TV. It's that kind of like, remember we used to all back in the day, sit down on a certain day and you'd watch the Sunday movie or the Sunday TV. That's for me now, Monday nights straight in. And as soon as the kid goes to bed, I'm like, right, I'm going to watch lanterns. Bye.

[00:02:31] It's so good. Yeah, it's been so good. Chris was joking. There we are on the fifth episode of eight episodes for lanterns, even though this does feel like a massive, just in case you're not checking out the listings and you thought next week's the last episode. We still got three more to go and what they're going to be filled with. Well, nobody really knows other than the people that have made it, but I would say they're going to be pretty good. They have to be at this point. If this is the mid season, I'm like, hmm.

[00:02:57] Yeah, really, really good stuff. But a reminder to all of our fellow guardians, if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com where you can subscribe on any podcast catcher of your choice. You can also email us with your thoughts on any of the episodes to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com or join us over at our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries where you can leave your thoughts on the spoiler posts there. Or you can join us on our Discord, details of which are in the show notes for this very episode.

[00:03:26] Finally, to mention that we do have our next question in our Rushville Redneck pub quiz coming up later on in the episode. Four questions given out so far, four questions to go. And at the end of the season, email us into that email or ask feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with your correct answers. And you could be in with a chance of getting your hands on some Lanterns goodies. You certainly will. Good stuff. With Derek, who gave us what were when and how for the fifth episode of Lanterns.

[00:03:56] Well, the showrunners for the show, of course, are Chris Mundy, Damon Lindelof and Tom King. This episode was written by Justin Britt Gibson. This is his first of two episodes for Lanterns. He was also a writer on season three of Anthony Starr's show, Banshee, and also an executive story editor on The Strain as well. So it comes with quite a lot of experience in kind of sci-fi shows. So that's quite cool. Excellent. Good stuff. I'm really interested to see. Is he doing literally episode six?

[00:04:22] Is this a back-to-backer or is he episode seven, eight? He's doing episode seven. Okay. Yeah. So it is a gap. Yeah. The series has been a bit odd in their order of writers. So some of the writers do get two episodes or three episodes attributed to them, but they have moved episodes around. We know the Jon Stewart episode, for example, was originally episode five of the show, and that was moved back to episode three. So that kind of changed the order for the rest of the episode.

[00:04:48] So I think what would have happened would be that flashback episode of Jon Stewart would have been after this episode, which was quite interesting. I can't imagine how that would have played out in the series because that was such a strong episode setting you up and knowing who Jon Stewart is. And you wouldn't have known who he is when he makes his decisions in this episode if they'd been done the other way around. Right. So, yeah, it's kind of interesting. Yeah, no, that is interesting.

[00:05:11] And I mean, on Banshee, I know some of our fellow defenders, fellow Gothamites and so on have waxed lyrical about Banshee. So we could see another solid show there. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. The director for this episode is Gita Vasant Patel, who directed last week's episode. Interestingly, just before coming up for the podcast, we were watching Superstore, one of our favourite comedy shows, watching an episode of it. And she also directed that actual episode. She did.

[00:05:40] Which was the Christmas episode of that show. Yeah, absolutely. How weird. To kill her for her father's crimes. Faced with an impossible situation, she is saved by Zoe, who steps in to snap a neck, take a pinky and make a deal that someday Kerry will have to stand up and defend Zoe in a similar way.

[00:06:10] Back in 2016, John Stewart is unable to get out of his rental car that Hal Jordan crashed into a pole. Zoe finds Jon, but as the car explodes, she lets him burn up in the car. In hospital, Zoe uses her technology to repair Jon's burnt skin and makes a similar deal with him as she did with Kerry, that in return for her help, she will need his protection. Meanwhile, Hal meets with Anton and his group.

[00:06:36] He tells them William Macon is the Manhunter they are searching for, while he goes after the real Manhunter, Zoe. Anton's aliens destroy Macon's compound and Anton faces off with Macon testing him with his alien language and their previous relationship to see if he is actually the Manhunter.

[00:06:56] Eventually, his resignation of being captured betrays Macon and Anton removes his heart to confirm he is just a regular human and not his former partner, Zoe. He manages to track her down and goes into self-destruct mode, but Hal uses his lantern ring to contain Anton's explosive power, killing him. After recovering from his burns, Jon gets the drop on Hal at his hotel.

[00:07:21] The two fight until Hal is beaten and broken, but the motel is destroyed by the satellite lasers overhead. Hal protects them both with the ring, but Jon escapes from the rubble, only to leave Hal as bait to draw out Zoe and takes her out with a sniper shot to the head. Jon takes the crystalline heart of the Manhunter, the lantern, and Hal's green lantern ring to the guardian, Liana.

[00:07:46] She expects him to take over Hal's role, but Jon tells her it just made him feel empty and leaves them all behind. So as we said, lots of choices made by Jon here in this episode, and what an explosive, exciting, action-packed episode it was. Yeah, he wanted it too much. Or did he want it at all? Exactly. Was it just his parents pushing him? Yes.

[00:08:15] Who knows? I really wanted the parents to turn out to be dead in this episode, and that's just him essentially imagining it, or him having a breakdown, or just something, because the way they speak to him in this episode is diabolical, and we'll get into it, because it is very much a driving force in the direction and decisions made towards the end of this episode.

[00:08:45] Mm-hmm. Without a doubt, without a doubt. Let's get into our major moments from the episode. Once again, we're going to talk about our power ring points. We'll start off with power ring point number one. So our power ring point number one is the offer. So this is all about Zoe's offer, Saved in Exchange for Protection, is kind of the subtitle for this one. Love how the episode starts off. It brought me right back to our first episodes of the podcast, Jon.

[00:09:14] Carrie Kane is escaping from Gotham Gangsters as she leaves and heads off to Rushville in 2007. Well, I think she just breaks down, doesn't she? She breaks down. Well, yes, she's not going to Rushville, yes. Yeah, exactly. Just so happens, as luck would have it, she breaks down just outside of Rushville, and then, yes, decides, right, I've had enough pushing it into town. I'm going to grab a coffee at the diner.

[00:09:42] But I do kind of like, this whole thing is, like, really cool because I like, like, the two guys who clearly have been chasing her from Gotham suddenly just sit down next to her and it's like, this is how it's going to go, you know? And then you just have the poor guy on the left as you look at them at the screen having his neck snapped.

[00:10:08] And then Zoe using a bit of her sort of anatomy training to get the other guy. But I like that Zoe uses her smarts here. I am around, well, you know, I'm not going to kill you because Carrie needs to, like, you know, what's the deal here?

[00:10:29] And so, again, I just like how this plays out with Carrie having, not necessarily having to, but choosing to cut off her own pinky finger. And I think that's probably a good sign for Zoe when she makes the deal because she's got enough, don't I say it, bravery or character or whatever it is in order to chop off her finger. I know, it really reminded me of one of the first Reacher novels.

[00:11:00] I think it was the one that was made into the movie with Tom Cruise in it, where they talk about this, that the guy gives people the choice to either take off their pinky finger or be killed. And he says the amount of people that don't take off their pinky finger is incredible. Why would you not lose one finger to save your life? And that's what Carrie's doing here. She's going, well, of course, it's only a finger in comparison to being killed, which is the other option here. Exactly, exactly.

[00:11:24] I do really like Zoe's kind of really flippant remark at the end, which goes, right, let's grow you a new one. So I thought that was a nice little touch just to show that maybe, you know, that was a test as well. Yes, yeah. Who knows? Because Carrie didn't know that before she took her finger off. No, exactly. She was going to get one back. And then getting this offer that, you know, well, I will need someone who's willing to fight and give up a piece of themselves to protect me.

[00:11:53] You know, you've shown me that you can do that. And this is the reciprocity of me protecting you, saving you. You will one day need to do it to me. So, yeah, it's kind of a nice little opener. I'd love to know who is after her. You know, the gangsters. Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:17] And just that kind of link to Gotham, it would have been kind of interesting if there was a nice big Easter egg in there. But I didn't really spot one. Yeah, I think it's just one of those set up points that they can use this whatever way they want to in the future. But I suppose the big thing here for me is that we're in James Gunn and Peter Safran's universe of shows now. So all the TV shows, all the movies are all connected now for the first time in the DC universe.

[00:12:44] I know we had the Arrowverse that was going on, but that was a little bit more complicated. And this is a much bigger universe where characters are mentioned here. Being from Gotham, it's mentioned that Kerry Kane is from Gotham and her father is murdered because he's a snitch. We know there are famous people with the surname Kane, as we talked about in the past, including Bruce Wayne's mom. So there are people that this could be.

[00:13:12] But the next major project in the DC universe is coming out next month, and it's Clayface, which is set in Gotham. So potentially we could have a little bit of connective tissue between whoever these gangsters are and whoever goes after Clayface in his movie. Yeah. Looking forward to that as well. For me, the most interesting part really on this is the change in Kerry and the complete...

[00:13:38] She has gone from what we assume is the daughter of a criminal, a snitch. So therefore a snitch by association, as she is called. Yeah. And then she goes on to become the sheriff. She becomes the law and order within the city. It is also interesting. It confirms pretty much straight away she's always known who Zoe is, what Zoe is. So again, that kind of...

[00:14:08] It is that confirmation that throughout the whole town has been in on it from the beginning. As they are brought into the fold. And it really just cements that. And you kind of see more of it throughout the rest of the episode where there is the... I was going to say war breaks out, but that's probably a bit hyperbole.

[00:14:38] The town is called to arms. Yeah. And you see pretty much majority of the town is picking up weapons and things to the point where the only one I think who we don't see is the little girl who cries later on. We don't see her with a machine gun. But maybe she did. Maybe she has also been machine gunning as well. Yeah, it's an interesting point, isn't it?

[00:15:03] There was something that I noticed when Kerry comes into town, we see that Rushville sign when she comes into town. And we see the population written as 1001 in 2007. And then in 2016, we see the same sign with the same population number written on it. And I thought, oh, that's a bit weird that we keep the population number the same. And then suddenly I went, well, actually, hang on a second. Maybe it is exactly the same because Zoe's been keeping everybody alive.

[00:15:29] And the only people allowed into town are the people that Zoe allows into the town and makes this deal with. You know what I mean? It was that realization that this is an offer that she gives to everybody here. And as the episode went on and people start to arm up, you realize that basically every single person from the people that work in the cafe to the people that work in the courtrooms to the people that work in the police station, all of them are in on it.

[00:15:57] And all of them have been told we will put out a call one day and all of you have to come back on the offer that I've given you, basically. So it was a really interesting moment. I would have loved to have seen a bit more of it. It's obviously very difficult to do, but I would have loved to have seen a bit more of that, more people reacting to the call. It was a very quick moment. Yeah. But I know what you're saying. And I think, yeah, a lot of people were part of the pact.

[00:16:24] But there were women and children that clearly weren't arming up. Clearly the children for obvious reasons. But if families arrive, they make a deal with one of the parents in the family and the rest of the family get to live at the town. Do you know what I mean? But also, I think they were because of the hospital. Yeah. But I just thought there was an interesting moment. And it might be just the timing of it. Maybe I've got it wrong in the episode.

[00:16:50] But just Hal's interaction with the other policeman, Sheriff's deputy. Yeah. Because the kill order has gone out on him, I think, at that stage. Yet he doesn't go after him. So that, I thought, was quite interesting. Maybe just because he's a policeman. Maybe there was that, realizing that actually he could help here. So it could just be all of that. But it felt this, even though they're probably all in on this pact,

[00:17:21] it didn't actually all play out a bit like with Jon Stewart, how Zoe would have intended. I think there were more fervent people, i.e. the Macons and their family, you know, I think. Gotcha. And I think it's then his kind of like, you know, modern thiefdom, because he was the man in power that other people have come along.

[00:17:47] But I don't think they've necessarily all been subject to Zoe. Yeah. I think it was just because when we see the cafe later on in the episode, there's people throwing guns out from behind the counter. There's a big standoff that happens in the cafe that's been orchestrated, I guess. And even at the beginning, when Carrie's attackers are taken out, they have that moment where she's asked what we do with the body.

[00:18:14] And she's like, well, tell them we need a table for one, basically, to the morgue. So, you know, so it just feels like, yeah, you're probably right. Not everybody's in on it. There's definitely families who aren't in on it. There's a great moment where you see, as everybody's running after the kill order, you see a kid dragging off his mom's arm because he doesn't want to go the way she wants him to go. So he's not in on it. But everybody knows when the kill order goes out, there's something going to happen in the town.

[00:18:39] Not everybody's saved because Zoe is blowing up the town to draw Hall out and doesn't really care about the people that are being killed, it seems. But, yeah, everybody seems to know what this means when the call goes out. Yeah. And, I mean, I think, like, with Carrie, you know, as Chris said, that sort of the before and after element, I think, is quite interesting in that. Definitely. That moment in the diner, she's absolutely desperate to be saved. Yeah.

[00:19:08] So she takes the offer. But I think there is that great moment where Hal just, like, parks down in front of her while she's in the car. And she's just firing at him. And she says, I have to fire at you because she can see me. She can't hear us. Yeah. But I have to be seen to be going after you because I promised I would protect her. You know, but she goes, it's more than that. I owe her. Yes.

[00:19:34] And this is where I think, yes, you could say it's I owe her my life because she saved her from being killed and buried in a grave somewhere close to Rushville. But equally, I have the feeling with Noah and her husband that clearly, you know, because she came into the Macon family.

[00:20:00] So she's definitely much more au fait, as Chris said, like this notion she knew about Zoe, but maybe she knew way more, you know. That she was letting on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The thing about Noah as well, technically, wouldn't he be population 1-0-0-0-2? Maybe. That's the one I was laughing. I was like, wait, no, there should be a second one. Maybe kids don't age. Or maybe they kicked somebody out.

[00:20:30] Yeah, that's true. That's true. No, but again, not I was being exactly literal, but it just made me think when I saw the number being the same for that many years, just made me think, hang on a second. Maybe the reason is because she decides who lives there and who doesn't. So, yeah. Well, I think it is tightly. Yeah, it has to be. Yeah. Like, you know. I think in the hopefully in the next couple of episodes, we're going to learn what it actually meant. Yes.

[00:20:57] Like, for the pact, if we could, that kind of call to arms. What was the cost? Because if, in theory, as per what we see at the end of this episode, that Zoe is the Manhunter is no more, then the hospital will start to fill up again. Like, people will get sick again in this town. A lot of people will get sick, Chris. A lot of people have gotten shot at this town. Yes. Yes. A lot of people are dying.

[00:21:27] Yeah. Like, right now, literally, they need a hospital, a working one to take care of a lot of people. They've been attacked by Star Wars. I mean, literally lasers from the satellite, lasers from the orbit. Exactly. Exactly. And one other part of this, you know, one other part of the offer really is what happens to John. You know, Hal leaves him in the car that he crashed into the pole. I think he's trying to hopefully draw Zoe out so he can catch Zoe, basically.

[00:21:55] That's why he's leaving John in the car. He's also really pissed off at him. But Zoe does arrive and lets John burn up in the car, watches him while he burns so that she can fix him and make this offer to him, which is really, really brutal as well of her to do.

[00:22:11] But they have such an interesting conversation in the hospital when she's making the offer to him about why she chose to be in the skin that she was in because she feels that the adversity that it gave her allowed her to develop to be in a much stronger position in this town as well. Which I thought was an interesting conversation to have between the two of them. I also like that John's saying to her, if you make me white, the deal is off.

[00:22:38] If you make me darker in skin, the deal is off because my brothers would be after me the whole time when they see me. So what an interesting way to have that discussion between the two of them. Yeah, no, I like that. I thought how, you know, to bring that up, I thought that was really, really good. I mean, even you kind of have that from Atan when he's speaking with William about, you know, this is unusual that you would take this kind of position normally, you know.

[00:23:08] But as you say, it's just feeding in because she didn't because it wasn't, you know. She takes positions that she can see effectively, as she was describing, in a sense, that underbelly and go through that adversity. As she says, to understand the civilization, that that understanding is forged in that crucible, that higher purpose from fear and injustice. Yeah.

[00:23:36] So I thought that was really interesting way. And yeah, I think the whole conversation, I mean, even just, you know, initially in the hospital, I just liked their relationship. And I mean, she said that herself. She's like, you seem to understand me, you know, because you have John saying, well, did you kill Abin Sur?

[00:24:00] And she's like, yes, you had to in case he, you know, even though he saved you, you couldn't trust that he wouldn't at some point turn on you. Yes. And deliver you back to the Guardians. So you had to make sure by killing him. Yeah. And I think Zoe seems to believe that that's John empathizing with her or sympathizing with her when really it's John working out what she did more than anything else.

[00:24:28] He doesn't have any sympathy for what she did, but realizes how far she'd push him. It seems like. He's collecting evidence. Yeah. But like Abin Sur brought her to Earth to protect her. And she went, well, he knows I'm here. If I don't kill Abin Sur, then somebody could find me in the future. So, yeah, it was a friendly gesture from Abin Sur, but she murdered him. Yeah.

[00:24:49] And maybe that whole aspect of Abin Sur, maybe it will go a little bit more intergalactic with that, you know, in terms of why he brought her. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm really hoping to see that because, you know, it's all a bit of speculation. It's a bit about, you know, a couple of mentions of the character a few times, but we haven't really seen Hal's backstory. We haven't seen how he got the ring. We haven't seen anything at all about Abin Sur. We haven't even seen him on screen.

[00:25:16] So I'm hoping that we'll see some more flashbacks in the next couple of episodes. Yeah. Yeah. I am just so interested to understand, is Zoe genuine? genuine, if I can say that, because we learned so much across about the Manhunters over the last few episodes.

[00:25:38] And in particular, based on the offer that she makes and then what those information that is kind of pulled out by the evidence, as you rightly called it, by Jon Stewart. I'm curious to see, like, is she or was the Manhunter just infiltrating? Was this all just a ruse so that they can build power? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:26:04] Or was this a genuine POW? Like, is this a prisoner of war who just was, like, wanted to live on Earth by themselves, just safe? So they made people the offer because they wanted to be better than what their programming was, etc.

[00:26:25] Like, is this a genuine thing or was this just actually, and we'll probably get into it now, was she a Manhunter-Man? Was she the sum of her programming and just a force for evil and destruction? Yeah. I mean, certainly you have a bit of sympathy for her, actually.

[00:26:49] And, you know, why, but then, you know, Avin Sur looked to sort of hide her away, save her, take her off the board around, you know, the killing and the destruction of all the other Manhunters. And yet you have that really interesting conversation that Atan says where, what was the last thing I said to you? And William says, you're a monster. Yeah. So clearly Zoe has done bad stuff. Yeah.

[00:27:18] Well, you say that, but again, it's about the unreliable narrators here. Exactly. We're hearing loads about what happened with the Manhunters. And specifically, we're hearing a lot of that from Antan. We're hearing some of it from Hal, but not really that much because he didn't know what a Manhunter was even at the beginning of the series. So, yeah, so we're still, really, we can only go by what Zoe said in this episode here and what John interrogated out of her, basically. Yeah.

[00:27:47] And that seems she's certainly ruthless about keeping herself safe on Earth, willing to sacrifice anybody because she sets fire to half of the town and the people that she knows are living there to keep herself safe. So she's certainly willing to do anything to keep herself safe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But as far as some of the other details go, not too sure yet. And maybe we'll get a bit more of it in the rest of the season. But with that, that's kind of the end of the offer part of the episode.

[00:28:16] We've spoken a little bit about our powering point number two already, but let's get into it in more detail. So, because our powering point number two is the price of the offer, which really leads to the attack on Rushville and everything that's going on there.

[00:28:37] Because, as I mentioned, the battle that ensues when the call goes out that everybody seems to be expecting or most people seem to be expecting, it kills lots and lots of people that have been living a nice normal life up until this point. You know, it feels like Macon's people, the militia that he had around him were in training for this very moment. That's what we've kind of been hearing throughout the season so far. Rather, they were in training in case there was any kind of alien attack coming. But not everybody in town seems super prepared for this.

[00:29:06] As you say, John, there were women and children that are running around with explosions going all around them, screaming at the loss of life. There's people who are left without parents after the fighting and battling that are going on that don't seem to have been prepared for it at all. But this was the price of living in Rushville. It seems. Long term listeners will know that every now and again. I find certain images that are not supposed to be funny. Hilarious.

[00:29:34] But the image of the severed leg and the little girl and the dad. And I was just... Some of the brutality. Some of it was so well choreographed and so well shot. And then there was just one or two shots that just looked almost... I'm going to be rude and say B-movie-esque. Okay.

[00:29:59] In that it just looked so over the top. Kind of like, oh my... War is here and it's come and all the blood and destruction. And I was like, oh no, no, we get it. Yes, we... Like, you've shown what... That this is causing great strife in the city. But, ah, come on. Let's move to the next part. Because it's just...

[00:30:28] The missing legs and then the guy... And I can actually... I'll tell you exactly the moment where it was. I think I know. I'm hoping it was the same. Well, for me it was when Hal does... Notices before he goes into the diner. He sees one of the townspeople shot. Lying dead. Looks at the hole in his head. Turns around and tries to... Kind of almost like...

[00:30:58] So where were they shot from? Is it up there? Was he a sniper? And it was just like... No, no, we get it. Like... Like, hello. Like, you're not that... You're not the greatest detective. You're not Batman. It was just like... It was just... I was expecting at one point... Almost like him to kind of pull out the ring... And just to do a little pointer... With the... Like the... He basically conjures a pointer... And it goes up over there. No, anyway. Sorry.

[00:31:27] It just seemed a bit on the nose. Right, right. Yes. Yeah. I mean... No, mine was the final one where John hands the watch to the girl. I think... That's at the hotel. Yeah. I think he could have just walked past... I mean, I didn't mind the sort of the visual effects of the leg and all that. But I think he could just walk past them and look. I didn't know where they needed the wife and the daughter there. Oh, no.

[00:31:56] I think that's to say that there is a cost here. It's not just the people that are running around the streets with arms as part of the militia. That's also families here that are involved. I think that's definitely there. Or visitors. What I... They were at the motel. Yeah, maybe they're visitors. They just thought they were... They're on holes. No, maybe. Maybe. They just wanted to go to this Dust Bowl for their holidays. Yeah. Maybe to catch a football game and there was a shooting at it a couple of days ago. That's the worst holiday ever. They probably should have left.

[00:32:24] But I was wondering, just because he picks up the watch off the ground, it's like a Disney watch or something that he picks up off the ground and gives the little girl. And because we had that moment when he was picked by the Guardians and he created a watch from scratch and it was his father's watch, I thought there must have been some massive meaning to the fact that he picks up this watch off the ground and gives it to the little girl. And then it was going, no, that's probably... I'm probably just overthinking it because I'm going to be podcasting about the episode.

[00:32:48] But part of this scene is Hal going into the diner and meeting up with Antan and the aliens where he set up that meeting last episode before crashing the car into the pole. So he goes into Antan and they have an interesting conversation about the Manhunters. One of the things he learns here about the Manhunter is that they find the Alpha in the local area and attach themselves to the Alpha. So Macon had been the previous Alpha in Rushville and now it seems like Jon Stewart is the new Alpha.

[00:33:17] That kind of pisses off Hal when he hears that, doesn't it? Because he's, you know, he's... The question comes, oh, I wouldn't have thought that Macon would have been able to attract the Alpha that is Jon Stewart because, you know, one of the best weapons they have is sex. You know, that's what they use to attract people. And I wouldn't think Jon Stewart would go for it. And then Hal goes, well, I would have, you know, if you have sex with so many aliens in space, you're kind of... It's not so much about preference, it's about opportunity.

[00:33:46] So I was approached by Macon is what he's got to say, you know, which I thought was really fun. But that does seem to be because, well, he goes for the Alpha and Hal's basically being told he's no longer the Alpha even though he's the Green Lantern for Earth. Yeah, no, I mean... So that was really funny. To be honest, I liked all this stuff with Antan, actually, here in the diner and at the Macon Ranch. Yes.

[00:34:14] I mean, in particular, just, I think, the brutality of what he has to do to William Macon to determine that, you know, to confirm his view that actually, despite the attempt to pull the rug over him, he has realized, yes, you're not Zoe. You're not the person who I used to try for a family even. Yeah. I, you know...

[00:34:43] So they were in a relationship together, yeah. But that whole knife in the heart just felt like... It was almost... Even just a few seconds. Slightly longer than I was thinking it was going to be and slightly sort of lingered on. And I was like, okay, you can stop. You can stop now. Stop. Stop. You know, it's not pimple pushers or pimple pop, Dr. Pimple Pop or whatever it is.

[00:35:10] That's crazy ass show that you're flicking through the things. And if you just leave it and then all of a sudden there's this open heart surgery and pimple popping going on on the screen. And it just felt like lingered just too much. But it was really effective, I thought. Yes. And again... It really conveyed the brutality of this. And I think even with Anton in the diner, you know, there was the classic, an enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[00:35:39] As he's listening to Hal spinning him a story. You know, I don't trust the Guardians, but I will work with you. And certainly I think when the kill order comes through, that seals it for him. But the whole thing then as well around the sexuality piece was just really, really nicely done. And again, I think just a bit like with... It just felt something different for approaching it. You know, as Hal said, when you've explored the galaxy as much as I have, like you said,

[00:36:08] it's less about preference, more about opportunity. It's broadening your horizons effectively. And just in the same way as with Zoe and Jon Stewart around the colour of his skin in the hospital. I just thought this was really good. I thought him confronting William Macon and even just... I love the use of his army.

[00:36:36] So I really also want to know about these aliens. You know, because at the moment, all we've got are their names. Yeah, absolutely. There's no real understanding, at least from my part, as to what alien species these may be. Yeah, but that's the thing. He told Jon Stewart that the reason why he's after the Manhunter is because they destroyed his race, killed all of his people. And then we find out here, when he's talking to William Macon, that he used to be... That Zoe used to be his partner.

[00:37:05] They were trying to have kids together. They were in a couple. It didn't say married, but they were a couple in the past. So are they also Manhunters as well? You know, is that why they're able to just set themselves up to explode like robots? Because they're the same species as Zoe, you know? Well, it's not great if you've had your race wiped out to stop blowing yourselves up. But, alas... Well, yeah, but that's what they're doing. That's their ability is to blow up.

[00:37:33] And they are literally sacrificing themselves left, right and centre. You have one guy that blows up at the gate and destroys the gate. We saw the melted gate in 2026. We see another guy running into the weenie that we saw last week. He runs into that and blows up all of the weapons, including himself. And then there's just this odd moment with Anton where he says to William Macon, I'm not going to blow myself up and sacrifice myself and you, not knowing whether you are definitely the Manhunter or not. And he stabs him, takes the heart out, finds out he's not.

[00:38:02] And then we see him going after Zoe. And he sets himself to explode before going in to confirm Zoe's there. And then Hal stops him and blows him up. And I was going, hang on a second. You literally just said in a line of dialogue two seconds beforehand, I'm not going to blow myself up unless I confirm Zoe's definitely going to die or the Manhunter's definitely going to die. And I went, why did he start his timer clock before he saw Zoe? That felt like a weird moment. Well, that moment was weird.

[00:38:30] I mean, the Water Tower full of that sort of black smoke. Fantastic. Really cool. Yeah. I really like that idea. I love the whole scene with Exxon. But I just didn't understand Anton's choice there. But I think the death of Anton needed to be a little bit more personal with Zoe. That, yeah, maybe she killed him, but he set off and Hal does his thing like he did. Because I thought that was quite cool.

[00:38:58] But, yeah, it made no sense given what he was saying previously. Obviously, that he needed to make sure that the person he's after was the Manhunter. Yeah. Because he wasn't clearly blowing himself up to get back at Hal for having lied to him. But, nonetheless... Yeah, there's no reason why he would blow himself up because he's still on the trail of the Manhunter. Yeah. Because then the only other thing is proximity. It's like, well, Hal's here, so that's where the Manhunter must be.

[00:39:25] But in which case, still, you would want to confirm it. Yeah. Because he's not there with any of his other associates. They've all blown themselves up. Yes, they've all blown themselves up. But I did like how they attacked. I loved that kind of kamikaziness of what they were doing. Like, just the guy nodding in the back of the vehicle, doing a barrel roll out, and then running towards the weenie. That was so cool. I kind of quite like... I liked just the whole idea. That looked like Terminator.

[00:39:55] Yeah. It was awesome. Yeah, really cool. I have theories in that all of the suicide bombers we've seen are males. And the whole attack team of the aliens are males. I wonder if Zoe and this alien, somehow when Zoe destroyed and committed genocide on this planet, she killed all the females. So, therefore, that is why they're like, we're just here for vengeance because there's no way we can...

[00:40:26] We create or repopulate our thing. Especially because they bring up kids. Yeah, absolutely. And he brings up kids. Yeah. I was... Like you, I was happy with the demise of Anton because it was just so quick. Yeah. And I think, so hopefully I am hoping that we get something more. There is more to this.

[00:40:54] Just more so even if it's just like the history of Zoe from that planet perspective. Like you talked about earlier, maybe we get Abin Sur and kind of that drop-off point. So, this would have just been after she was brought in for that genocide and now is being hidden by Abin Sur. So, hopefully we do get that almost kind of flashback. Yeah. Also, a pure purple guy, Abin Sur.

[00:41:24] Yeah, going to be great. But the... I really enjoy... I was hoping for more of this character on Anton and those people. Just because it has been slightly... Essentially that me trying to piece together the puzzle pieces. Yeah, yeah. Whereas, I think the average viewer... And you said it.

[00:41:52] Like, the average viewer is not going to podcast about this show. So, the average viewer is not taking as much in-depth notes and looking at everything. So, I think for very much they have just been acting as a catalyst for a lot of the action. And the kind of... To get us to the certain points. But we don't know. And that's the thing. I... As we always talk about, like, until we've seen the final product, I don't want to make any...

[00:42:21] Because Lindonoff has made some fantastic TV. And Tom King, some fantastic literary fiction and beyond. So, I am... He's a great comic book writer. Yeah. He's written some brilliant comics. But the showrunner here, Chris Mundy, is... You know, he's known from True Detective. You know? Yeah. Which was all about setting you off in one direction.

[00:42:47] Thinking about, maybe we've finished the story of the character and then the next week changing it to get even more information and more backstory about the characters. And that's pretty much how these five episodes have gone. We've learnt more and more about the characters. And I don't think we're at the end here. You made a joke at the beginning, Chris, that this felt like the ending of the season and next week's the wrap-up. You know, we've got three more episodes to go, three more hours of TV to go. And it's not going to be linear suddenly from next week.

[00:43:13] And suddenly we're in 2026 and then we have John Stewart getting his ring and off he goes or whatever happens after 2026. We will get more detail behind, I think, all of these characters here. Because I wasn't expecting the 2007 jump back, to be honest. No. To Kerry Kane. You know, I wasn't expecting to have that kind of little sort of 10 minutes at the start. Exactly. Now, it had its purpose. Absolutely. Fantastic.

[00:43:43] So that's a really nice way of them to sort of pepper this in whilst also moving forward, I think, if they do something like that. Absolutely. Can I bring up one fun little tidbit theory I've kind of been noodling on? What if all the children are manhunters? That is why the population number hasn't changed in the years?

[00:44:12] Because they're actually not. The people are not getting any older, but they're not able to procreate. And that is why Noah and some of like, it is very much children of the Cornesque. In that like, they are now the offspring. And that is why you have all these, why it's going to continue. Because it is, they, the population stayed the same. Everyone stayed the same.

[00:44:40] And all the kids are young manhunters. And that's why we get a very interesting conversation with Noah and Zoe. Where we see that she essentially goes, remember what we talked about. Spy without being seen. Remember everything I taught you. And then Macon Jr. is basically kind of told to stay and protect Noah. Yeah. And those seem like reasonably normal things.

[00:45:09] Apart from the spy without being seen. But that could be kind of a playful thing that a grandparent says to their grandson. All of these things could be. Yeah. I think that fits is. Playful things. But that's very specific on William Macon Jr. When he wants to join everybody else. Remember, again, everybody in town has gotten this message saying kill order. And he's told specifically the most important job you have right now is taking care of Noah. Yeah. You know, it feels like Noah's a very important character to Zoe.

[00:45:38] So I think there's something in that. Absolutely. I think there's something that I think. The fact that Jon Stewart asks about him in 2026. That's the first thing he asks about when he meets with Kerry. Which again, it may be the first thing you would ask somebody that you know about their child. You know, absolutely, again, can be just a normal piece of dialogue. But it feels like something more important. And I do. I think Kerry Kane has something there as well with the whole standoff with Hal where she just says, I owe her.

[00:46:07] And what that means. What that potentially could be. But certainly, I think, yeah. But certainly, yes. I think Noah here may be the kind of MacGuffin that's kind of tucked away. Played by someone that we've seen him like three times in less than 12 months. With weapons. With Spider-Noir. And now this.

[00:46:32] And so, you know, that's a big statement for a character that's hardly been on screen. Again, absence. Another indicator that possibly a bigger role than what their screen time would suggest. So, certainly moving into possibly these next three episodes. Absolutely. Yep. Absolutely. Last couple of things on the attack on Rushville.

[00:46:58] I just want to mention, really good to see Hal doing some superheroing in here while he is hunting down Zoe. He's using his clone or his doppelganger, whatever you call it. The same version of himself. The hologram. That was the one we forgot to write down. Yes. So, he's using him to find Zoe while he's helping people in town. That was quite cool to see because we just haven't seen Hal do some superheroing before. But he is helping out people in the town as well.

[00:47:28] Yeah. And it's interesting. In order to keep with him being, taking his ring with him, he takes a chip off the ring. That's right. And leaves that on the water tower so that the hologram can stay at the water tower. Yes. Because he's attached to the ring. Yes. I was like, that's very, that's very smart. And it's only when you think about it and you're like, oh yeah, oh, there you go.

[00:47:55] Again, just one of these very much kind of like, here's something that you just don't even think about. But when you're podcasting, you're like, oh yeah, that makes sense. That's good lore. It was really cool. It was really cool. I think the fact that the hologram goes, oh, where's John? He's a nice lad. You know, I met him the other day. Totally different character. Yeah, exactly. Again, great performance from Kyle Chandler there. And these two dual roles showing how different he is.

[00:48:22] And that's why I pretty much know we're going to get some kind of flashback to that younger Kyle Chandler as the younger version of Hal. You know, I just expect that we're going to see that because he's got a whole character there. Why is he so different than he was back in that earlier version of himself? Last thing I wanted to say just about the price. I think this explains what that town meeting was about where every single person in the town was in the town hall. Yes, we know there was a shooting going on, but nobody even went in to open up the coffee shop.

[00:48:52] It was a ghost town. Everybody was in the meeting. Hal walked into the room, went, were you all talking about me? Well, they probably weren't particularly talking about him. They were probably talking about the potential attack on the town and the price that they would all have to pay for what Zoe's been giving them for the last 10 years. So I like that that's something else that's played out now by the end of episode five. Yeah. Yeah, no, very much so. Let's get on to our final powering point, powering point number three.

[00:49:24] Because the final movement in the episode really is Jon Stewart and the choice at the end of this episode. We see that he takes the offer from Zoe sort of to help himself to be cured, to be fixed. But he's certainly not willing to be manipulated by Zoe into being one of her defenders. He's still going to go ahead with his plan. And what an interesting way to do it.

[00:49:51] He's going to use Hal as bait to get Zoe out of her hiding place and take a wrench. The exact same plan Hal had. Yeah, no, exactly. Exact same plan. But I do like the fact that he's garnered that from her offer because she says Hal will be Hal Jordan will be dead by the end of the day. You will have the ring and the alien, Asan, will also be killed.

[00:50:19] So you will have what you want, what you need here. Primarily the ring. So she's laid it out all before him because, of course, the protection need for her is more acute here because it's happening. So I kind of like that. The discussion and the testimony that she killed Abin Sor is another part that makes the choice up for Jon.

[00:50:47] In that he knows, well, he's going to be another Green Lantern. The deal that she sets out is, like you said, Jon, it's kind of get rid of Hal. You become the Green Lantern. The Atan is gone. The aliens are gone. And I get to kind of go back my life. But she's not going to let that go because she killed the last Green Lantern who knew where she was. So she's going to kill Jon as well. Absolutely.

[00:51:14] Jon Stewart, not our podcast host Jon. That's too meta. That'd be just too strange. That'd be way too meta, absolutely. But it is interesting that the last words that Hal says to Jon after he leaves, after Jon leaves him battered and broken and he takes the ring off him. Hal says to him, they replaced me. They're going to replace you too. So you're right, Chris. You know, he's suspicious of Zoe because, yeah, Zoe killed a Green Lantern and kind of set him off on the course to kill another Green Lantern.

[00:51:43] And she'll probably have him killed too. But not only that, also on the other side, the people that offered him Hal's position have replaced him without telling Hal. Well, he says as well that he's suspicious of the Guardians. And again, the hospital conversation, because in the end they weren't going to do the replacement. They were asking me to do it. So it almost, it wasn't an ordained thing. It needed to be underhand.

[00:52:11] And he thought that they would tell Hal and then would pass him the ring. Yeah. And instead it's like, yeah, I'm just going to take it. And I think that's what's really interesting. Because you have the moment as well with him on the phone to his mom and dad, which I really like the pattern of that where he's like smashing the window. He's like, hold on a minute. He's put it in his pocket. You hear snippets from the dad and the mom. It's like, well, have you taken the ring yet?

[00:52:40] And he's like, no, I'm going to though. I'm going to take it as he's getting the sniper rifle. And all this is done. And then, you know, he gets this ring. It should be the pinnacle of everything. But with everything that he's had to do for it, everything they've seen, what it means around with Zoe, Abinsoor, all of this. Yeah, it's kind of it's that taste of dust a bit in the mouth. Yeah.

[00:53:09] And I think this comes out really kind of nicely from, I think, Jon Stewart here and the performance that is coming from Aaron Pierre here. So I really, really enjoyed that. Absolutely. And as he hands back that ring, as well as the lantern, and, you know, along with their crystalline heart that he's, again, taken from Zoe. So that was another where I was like, oh, no, they're not doing another one.

[00:53:37] You know, right in front of the kid as well. Let's just walk past. I mean, that was the slight dissociation of it all was just the notion of, here you go, kid. Here's your unbroken watch. It just got a little dusty. You know, flick knife goes on and he's doing open heart surgery on a veteran that, you know, he's banged twice, effectively. And not to put it too bluntly. Well, yeah, that was pretty blunt, Jon.

[00:54:04] I did think he was going to take the heart out and it would just be a normal human heart and the Manhunter would be out there somewhere. And Zoe had actually not been a Manhunter. I thought there was going to be a little bit of play there. I am so shocked. I am so shocked in this episode that Liana is still a Guardian and not a Manhunter. Because it just feels like that would be the solve to a lot of the problems here.

[00:54:28] That Zoe was impersonating a Guardian and she had set this whole thing up to get Jon Stewart to town to stop Hal. And, you know, here we are at the end of an episode where Hal has lost the ring. Jon Stewart has it and Hal's pretty broken and battered. Jon Stewart has it. Jon goes, I don't know why he wanted it. He probably doesn't know why he wanted it anymore. I don't know why I want it. I thought it would make me feel pride, gratitude, power. It just made me feel empty.

[00:54:57] I don't want it. And walks out. So everything he's been working at from when he was five years old. And we saw all the flashbacks throughout his life earlier on when he was being healed. Everything he's worked towards to make himself the perfect candidate to be the next Green Lantern. And he's walking away from all of that, including his parents, by going, I don't want it. Because it doesn't mean what I had been told it meant, basically. Certainly, yeah.

[00:55:25] As he gets in, the ring off Hal and stuff. And, again, the thing with his mum and dad on the phone, really good. I think the other, you know, that punch out and fight seemed really brutal. It just felt like the years of frustration. It was very, very good. But equally, I liked how Hal, I liked some of the comments here. There's a really good one where, like, John Stewart saying, I deserve the ring.

[00:55:54] And Hal actually says, I don't. But the ring chose me. Like, get off me. And I do like that there is that, at least in the motel before he hands it back, there is that kind of, it feels like a really meaningful struggle. As much from Hal to retain it. Like, that moment where he kind of curls his hand into a fist so that John Stewart has to struggle to take the ring off. Even though he's buried under all the rubble. And just those real nice touches coming through here.

[00:56:26] And, yeah, ultimately, he, you know, he's just feeling, I guess, betrayed by Zoe. Betrayed by Liana. Betrayed by Hal. Possibly betrayed by his parents. All of this. And the Guardians, yeah. Yeah. Well, Liana, yeah. Sorry, that's what I meant. Yeah, the Guardians. You know, so this was all nice.

[00:56:50] And I like the other bit of him handing the heart to Liana or saying when she goes in his bag, saying what's in here? And he's like, it's your sins and consequences. Real nice line that. And again, I think it comes back to this point of the sins and consequences. Because, you know, why did Abincer also choose to save Zoe? What's so special about this Manhunter?

[00:57:18] Again, maybe it's something to do with Noah. Maybe, yeah, she's a Manhunter that can only do, like, is the only Manhunter that can do something, whatever that may be. But again, all this, like, played out really, really nicely with this moment of, you know, what's it? Out of my cold, dead hands type almost approach with Hal to get the ring. The willpower of Hal, yeah.

[00:57:44] Yeah, but also then, as you say, the handing back is nice. I thought. Unexpected, like, for me. Exactly. And that is the best word I can use. This choice is so unexpected. Like, again, correct me if I'm wrong. Liana didn't know that there were Manhunters. Zoe was, there was a Manhunter there. Yeah.

[00:58:10] She essentially just thought she was coming into a shitstorm move between Hal and John. No, up until this very day, she doesn't know there's a Manhunter there. But John called her. John called his parents to say, connect me through to the satellite to Liana immediately. And the first thing she says to him was, you should have called me earlier, basically. So she's pissed off that he didn't say to her that there was a Manhunter in town. Okay.

[00:58:40] She may have handled things differently is the implication there. If she'd known there was a Manhunter there, maybe this wasn't the right time to switch over Green Lanterns. Maybe she might have helped Hal a bit more if she'd known there was a Manhunter here. But they were both keeping that information from the Guardians. It's just that this choice, everything about this ending is unexpected. So much of it is just, okay, where are you taking this? How, how, I joked, this felt like a penultimate episode and the wrap-up's the next one.

[00:59:10] That's how you would do, that's how previously other shows have done it. So very much that we know how the show theoretically ends in 2026. I'm like, and maybe it doesn't end. Maybe this is next, like 2025 is next year or next week. And then the 2026 is, we get two full hours in 2026. And it sets us up for the beyond.

[00:59:38] Because I'm just so interested to see how you follow this up. You have basically built Jon Stewart up as this perfect soldier, perfect replacement for Hal Jordan. And then he went and grew a conscience and fell to empty and now he's not. So where does this go?

[01:00:06] Again, that's what the series has been telling us. That's what his parents have told Jon and the Guardians chose Jon Stewart to replace Hal. Yeah. But the ring chooses the Green Lantern, which was Hal's point in that argument. Regardless of Jon being set up in the right way possible to replace Hal Jordan, unless he takes the ring off his finger and says the oath into the ring,

[01:00:31] then he doesn't become the Green Lantern because everybody else has been chosen by the ring landing on their finger. So this is a very different proposition with Jon Stewart. And we're not even sure if it would have worked. We're not definite it would have worked because it hasn't been done. We're just being told these pieces of information, right? So there's that. There are two big mysteries left to solve in the series. Number one is what happened to Hal Jordan in 2026

[01:00:57] and his frozen dead body with the sniper rifle bullet hole in his head, just like Zoe's. Sniper rifle bullet hole in her head. And from the sniper that is Jon Stewart, but he wasn't in town. He was called into town. So probably wasn't the person that did it. But let's find out over the next couple of episodes. And the other piece is, well, neither of them have the Green Lantern ring. Guy Gardner has the Green Lantern ring in Superman. There's a third Green Lantern in this universe, and we still haven't seen him in the show. So Nathan Fillion will be in the series. We knew that from the start.

[01:01:27] Yep. The next Superman movie, Man of Tomorrow, which is coming out next summer. Again, the whole universe all being connected is very weird for DC. It's very unusual talking about DC properties and going, ooh, there's something else coming up in the future that's connected to all this stuff. But that's the other mystery that kind of has to be solved by this show, because we have two Green Lanterns battling over a ring, and neither of them had it in the Superman movie.

[01:01:56] So yeah, it's going to be interesting to find out how this season ends. But those are two quite big stories, I think, to deal with. Yeah, definitely. And they'll probably be dealt with in about three minutes of the three hours that we've got left to deal with. And they give us five hours worth of different mysteries to discuss. Yeah, of fun other stuff that we can talk about. But what a great way to close out the 2016 story and the story of Zoe the Manhunter. Still want to know more.

[01:02:24] Still want to see more of the characters. But yeah, it's been a fascinating episode. Overall, John, what's your final thoughts on the episode? Yeah, I absolutely love this. Again, I'd give this five flame-grilled lanterns out of five. Again, it's just a very unexpected episode with what happened at the end, as we've said. For me, the thing that was just sort of flashing away like the red warning light was Noah

[01:02:50] and how Noah was being sort of treated in that moment of the need for protection. I thought that, you know, some really brutal stuff here, certainly around proving whether you're a Manhunter or not. There's some touching moments a bit as well. Like, I did quite like William Macon just sort of saying to Zoe, thank you for the time extra that you gave me.

[01:03:17] I thought that was a really kind of nice little moment there. And that's the thing. You have... It is that mystery is still there. Even though they've kind of finished, in many respects, that mystery of how has the Macon Ranch gotten like that from the first episode, we now know. But the mystery still lingers because Jon Stewart has become a different part in this story

[01:03:45] because he's renounced the ring, in a sense. Hal also because, in a sense, he's disgraced. Well, yeah. His ring's gone now. It's gone back to the garden. Exactly. So the ring is gone. You know, there's still loads of mystery here, despite them giving us what many would consider penultimate or final episode, in some respect, of, you know, say, the first season to go into a second one.

[01:04:15] So I can't wait. I think this is what I'm loving about this show. There's loads of layers, loads of nuance, loads of mystery on characters that, because I only really know basic stuff of the lanterns, I'm like, oh, well, it must be this. And it's not. So this is a treat every time I'm watching it.

[01:04:34] It's really good in here, I think, in the way they as well are approaching just things around race, I think, in terms of sexuality. Just in very, not overbearing, nothing major, just the way it's handled really nicely done. And so, yeah, I would give this five flame-grilled lanterns out of five.

[01:05:01] And also just really good action, some good action here. Yeah, there was. Yeah, there's a few little quibbles maybe around Atten, but overall, I still thought Lights Out was really, really good. And it's continuing my five out of five here. And I think that's it. I think at the moment, even if there are little quibbles, it's just a really solid piece of work.

[01:05:28] The actors, the writing, the show running, the direction and so on. So, yeah, five flame-grilled lanterns out of five. Yeah, I think for me it's just, you know, you could focus on the little quibbles, which that lantern moment is a big issue for me. But you could focus on ten other amazing things that happened in that episode.

[01:05:50] The moment when we see Hal getting into the helicopter after he's got the night vision goggles in the big smoke, the big black smoke area, and then flies the helicopter up above it. That was so cool looking. It looked movie quality. It was absolutely cool. But, yeah, loads of other great moments in the episode. So totally with you, John. Really, really good. And I'm going to echo everything. And just to make it sound different, I'll say quibbles instead of quibbles.

[01:06:19] Quibbles and quibbles. Quibbles. Excellent. Not coitus. No. No. Because it is just there are small things. But overall, this show is well-paced, giving you just enough that you want to know more. And it is making it must-watch TV. Yeah. Like, it really is.

[01:06:46] And it reminds me, and I know everyone keeps talking about True Detective because there is that element and connection. Mm-hmm. But it reminds me of everyone talking about the first season of True Detective. Going, oh my god, did you see this? And, oh. Like, I am seeing so many people go, have you heard about this Lanterns show? Excellent. And I'm like, yeah. Like, it's Green Lanterns. Like, it's comic book. And they're like, oh, yeah, I thought so.

[01:07:15] But, like, it doesn't feel like comic books. And that's very much what they've managed to do here. Yeah. They've taken a comic book piece and they've made a very mature, well-written show out of this. And, hey, well done. That's all I can say. Absolutely. I think because the Arrowverse ran for so many years on TV, when people think of DC comic book TV show, they go, oh, no, not one of those Flash or Arrow shows. CW.

[01:07:45] And this is so far removed from those types of shows. Oh, yeah. And it's really interesting when you mention an episode like this where they use the comic book tropes. We have Hal Jordan the Green Lantern running out of power, has to run back to his hotel to power up. And while he's there, he gets attacked by his former friend, turned into his enemy. You know, all of those things are in every issue of comic books. You know, that's the very standard story, you know.

[01:08:07] But done so well here and translated into that premium primetime Sunday slot on HBO, which always delivered great shows. It just happens, doesn't it? There's no over-exposition here. Or, you know, the Falcon Crest thing of, oh, no, look, you were my friend once. Yeah. Or that kind of thing. You know, can you imagine if that happened in the motel room in this show? Absolutely. We would all head for the bar immediately. Yeah, absolutely.

[01:08:33] Speaking of which, I think we do need to go and get a drink at the local Redneck bar. Yes, fellow Lanterns, fellow Guardians and fellow Quizzers, we're on to question five of the Rushville Redneck bar quiz. And for this episode, the question is, when was Rushville established? Oh, very good. Yes. It was slightly longer and then it was spoiled by you two in the podcast. No, it wasn't. No, no, I knew the question. So I knew you didn't include the population.

[01:09:02] I think I literally deleted it live at the time of recording. I told you not to. And I was like, okay, let's just take this out. I told you not to include it because I knew I was going to talk about it in the podcast. So do you want to give the question one more time? Absolutely. When was Rushville established? Very good. I wonder, do we have to change the bar quiz name next week if we're not going to be in Rushville? But we get back to Rushville in 2026. Maybe it's just less redneck-y than it was in this episode, maybe.

[01:09:30] Well, definitely, since the population is less, we're definitely less redneck-y. It's just the fact that the Gotham thugs, when they arrive, he literally says, I'm going to kill all the rednecks in this diner. So, you know, yeah, maybe they've killed a lot of the rednecks in town. Maybe. Maybe, yes. That is the fifth question of Ace Questions. Put that together with the correct answers at the end of the season and email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with all the correct answers.

[01:09:58] And you could be in with a chance of getting your hands on some lantern goodies. That's the same email address, of course, where you send in your feedback to us if you want to send that in to us. And first up, we have some email feedback in from Coffee and Vodka, who says, Greetings, fellow hardened heart defenders. Wait, what? Wow. Looks like we've got our 2016 closure with the Battle Royale and the resultant Rushville ruins, as well the absence of the exploding aliens. Likewise, how Guy Gardner got the ring and the probable reason Hal stayed behind.

[01:10:26] Kerry Kane still doesn't explain the checking of Hal's finger, his frozen dinner state, or John's fantastic beard. As for this time frame, as usual, so well acted, written and directed. The centre stage was smoothly shared between John, Hal, Zoe and Kerry. Have to say, however, the icing on the cake was John's manipulation of Zoe, perfectly capped with two simple words from Hal as bait. His refusal to take the ring he felt was tainted was poignant, illustrating his honour and illuminating the Guardians, and to a degree Hal's bullshit.

[01:10:55] Next up, 2026, five pinky promises, baits, motels, and played aliens out of five peace and take care coffee and vodka. Very good. Yes. Great stuff, coffee and vodka. Loving those out-ofs there. As always. Pinky promises, yes. I thought baits motel is quite good. Yeah, that is very good as well. I just like. And so it is played aliens. I like pinky promises because ain't nobody doing pinky promises. Well, back in 2006.

[01:11:25] Well, not like that, where you have to actually give up your pinky finger with a knife. Well, you never know. But you never know. You're right. Maybe. Maybe. Well, yes, lots of speculation about what's going to happen in the rest of the season. But yeah, really well acted, well delivered episode this week. Thanks for your feedback, coffee and vodka. Yeah, lovely stuff. Thanks, coffee and vodka. Yes, thank you, coffee and vodka. We also got some feedback over on our Discord server where Paul Lee had this to say. Okay.

[01:11:53] Presumably Zoe was at the diner because the two Gotham goons showed up. As well as seeing, with satellites, that Carrie was pushing her car into town. Makes me wonder if she thought ahead to getting Carrie on the police force and setting her up to be the sheriff. Or maybe even setting her up to be with Billy. Also a lovely bit of storytelling when Ant-Anne acts surprised when Hal tells him that the Manhunter has assumed a male identity.

[01:12:21] Then revealing that he and the Manhunter had a relationship but couldn't have a child together before the genocide. The show has been able to show us reasons to have sympathy with each of the major characters. Even as we find out more about how they fit into the plot. Can't wait for the other episodes to drop. Thanks, Paul. And yeah, I think that one of the most interesting parts is how they built Zoe up.

[01:12:47] To be you to just assume and want to kind of sympathize with this character. And I think when they potentially show how much of a crazy genocidal robot she was. Maybe that is where you're like the rug is pulled. Or it's the opposite where they go, oh, no, she wasn't. She's a misunderstood machine. She's a machine. That's all. I think, yeah, it's part of that.

[01:13:17] But I would say it is about how she chooses people and saves them and helps them. You know, the fact that William Macon Sr. was so dead set in giving up his life. That he learned her language. He learned all about the relationship that she had with Ant-Anne in the past. So that he could pretend to be her. You know, he was that level of knowledge. And also said thank you so much for all the extra years he gave me. Because he was dying of cancer. He would have been dead without her intervention.

[01:13:46] So he was totally committed in that cult of personality that she created. That he was almost calling her a deity when talking about her to Hal a couple of weeks ago. So it probably is about the people that she chooses to let in on this. And, yeah, to Paul's point. Yeah, I'd say Zoe was watching Carrie push her car into town. And realizing she was being followed by thugs. And going, oh, maybe she's one of the ones that will work really well in this tent.

[01:14:14] Yeah, I think she made those plans in advance. She wouldn't have gone out to help her otherwise, I don't think. So, yeah, I think that's part of it. Yeah, definitely. Which makes you wonder is the reason why she was in the bar with Jon Stewart and Hal at the beginning of the season. Because she saw something in Jon Stewart that she felt he could be manipulated. Yeah, maybe. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I think as well, Paul, to your point around the sympathy with each of these characters. It's really good.

[01:14:44] Sort of that nuance and layering. And, you know, I don't want to say the grey. It's not black and white, you know. But it's just really nicely done. Yeah. Because there were moments where I thought Zoe and Jon, that might be something that he would do. I wasn't necessarily sure he was going to go full kill her as such.

[01:15:09] So, again, even just throwing up those complications around someone's character means the response of other people to that can be a surprise. So, yeah, great stuff. Thanks, Paul. Also, over on Discord, Richard Blaze says,

[01:15:46] Thanks, Richard. I'm guessing we're moving into the future to 2026. It will be interesting around whether, yeah, Jon will get the ring. Don't know. I don't know if I could call that, really. Yeah, I know. It feels like he doesn't want it. It feels like he should be. But he feels like he doesn't want it now.

[01:16:07] So it feels like someone has to apologize to him or someone has to make a big change in his life and how they've dealt with him to make him feel like he should be the hero with the ring. Because he's seen what it did to Hal. He's seen what it did to everybody at random. Exactly. But even, I think, like as Coffee and Vodka said, that he is the checking Hal's hand, you know, for the ring. Or so we thought, actually. Maybe it's something different in the end.

[01:16:36] Or is he just going, did Hal ever get that ring back after I left him 10 years ago? Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I think that's, we'll see. Again, a flashback episode for Hal. It'll be interesting if they do that. Yeah. Because that then takes it down to one episode. But I think they've packed in so much to these first five episodes. Probably by allowing them to be roughly an hour. But it's just that little bit more time that they can give to things.

[01:17:06] But I can expect that they will pack in a load more in the last three. Yeah. I feel like we're going to have to see some moments with Sinestro and Hal together when they were together in the past. So whether that's next week's episode is a full hour-long flashback episode. Or whether it will be interspersed around the next couple of episodes. But, yeah, I expect we're going to see a bit more of that. Especially having cast the actor to play Sinestro and only having him behind Barris for five minutes.

[01:17:34] That worked for Hannibal, of course, in Silence of the Lambs, as we mentioned before. But I suspect they're going to show us a bit more of Sinestro as well. But it's all connected now, so you can appear in anything. You can, absolutely. You can. Yeah. Great stuff. Thanks, Richard, for your thoughts. Finally, Paolo sent us in his thoughts on Discord. He says, Hey, peeps. I don't normally enjoy the action-packed showdown episodes, but this one was very good. Hal learned very quickly how to deal with the darkness gas, which was a good thing to see.

[01:18:04] The episode cleared the board of quite a few pieces, possibly for the jump forward, and left me with many questions. No doubt the original Manhunter is gone, but after seeing that healing drop of blood, I wonder if hybrids start cropping up. Maybe Kerry's son, which would put Jon in a new position. The Guardian's callousness in front of all the death and destruction is brutal. And I think that technically Hal is still the owner of the ring. Will he get it or take it back? Or is this when Guy Gardner gets chosen? He should appear in the next episode.

[01:18:32] I'm curious to see how his stupid haircut fits in this gritty version. Four and five hands dangling from handcuffs for me. Oh, yes. Excellent stuff, Paolo. Yeah. See Zoe's hand through the darkness just held, still handcuffed to the helicopter.

[01:18:51] And I, too, am interested to see how the haircut fares in not so much, I can say, this universe now, but in this postcode, at least. I think it's going to be as beautiful as it was in the last Superman film. And it will be in Man of Tomorrow because it is Guy Gardner's style until he goes for something slightly different.

[01:19:21] A bit more red. I hate to say that I've actually released the clip of Guy Gardner already. So I do know what he looks like in the show. I have seen the clip. I have to. And I know. It is good. But weirdly, they released it about four weeks ago. So that's why everybody's been expecting that he was going to appear in the next episode or the next episode or the next one. So they released it, I think, after the first episode to say he'll be in the show, guys. Don't worry about it. But, yeah, he's probably going to have to go and check that out. And he's probably going to be in episode eight.

[01:19:50] The post credit scene is going to be Guy Gardner arriving. That'll be it. Yeah. What I miss. What happened? What happened? Well, that's it. It'll all be fun and really sort of gun-esque in a sense. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. A rocket raccoon will come in. He will be doing Amalgam. He's like the head showrunner of Amalgam. That'd be awesome. That'd be awesome. But until the next episode or the next three episodes of the show, I think we'll close it out there, guys. Anything else? I think so. Yeah.

[01:20:20] Dimension at all? No, but thank you so much, Paolo. Great to have your thoughts. And anyone else, don't forget, you can send us your feedback by heading over to Discord, the server, where you'll find in the show notes. Or by throwing us an email by going to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. We hope you stay subscribed to the podcast.

[01:20:40] And if you enjoy what you hear, make sure you share it with your friends because many corps of the Lanterns need to hear about this. And more importantly, sharing the podcast is what, gentlemen? It is sharing the love. Yes, it is. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be back next week with Lanterns, episode six, of course. Yes, indeed. Thank you so much, fellow Lanterns and fellow Guardians.

[01:21:09] And of course, fellow quizzers, because the old quizzing is there. And until, though, next time when we hit on in episode six, keep watching, keep listening. And of course, keep shining a light. Bye. Bye. Bye.