Avengers Endgame Encore podcast

[00:00:00] This is the Movies on TV Podcast Industries. We're back. We're going to talk quickly about Avengers Endgame Encore.

[00:00:29] Welcome back fellow Defenders to TV Podcast Industries. We're going to have a quick chat on our podcast here about Avengers Endgame, mostly the post-credits. I am one of your hosts, Derek. Hello there, fellow Defenders. Yes, welcome to the Defenders Podcast. I am one of your other hosts, John. It's been a couple of weeks since we've got anything on our Defenders Podcast feed. Last thing was Spider-Man Brand New Day. It seems ages ago.

[00:00:56] Yeah, but we did go to the cinema this weekend to see Avengers Endgame Encore, the re-release of the Avengers, under the promise that firstly we get to see it on IMAX, which we never saw before. The last time we saw it was in Switzerland on the big screen where it had an intermission in the middle of it and we were given a free pair. True, absolutely. Those were the days. A healthy intermission snack in Switzerland. A switch snack.

[00:01:25] Yes. So that was quite nice though, all in all, because I think back in the day it was a good three hours. It was three hours. I think we were saying, well, you would used to have intermissions. And back in the day that was to allow them to change the reel. Exactly. Of course, don't really need to do that now. But yeah, certainly it was good to see Endgame again. It was good to see it in IMAX for sure. What did you think of the IMAX transfer? We don't have a real IMAX in Ireland.

[00:01:54] We have a massive screen, but it's not officially a real IMAX as we learned with the Odyssey. There's only about 35 of those in the world, I think. No, I mean, it was good. It was good just because I think it's really quite immersive. The sound is certainly the best of all the cinema screens that are in the cine world in central Dublin. So yeah, it's really good.

[00:02:20] There's a good bunch of sound, spectacle, and it's also the biggest auditorium. So if you get it packed out, there's a nice sort of good atmosphere and vibe going on. So yeah, no, I thought it was really good, really worth a see. I mean, I have to say going into it, I wasn't entirely sure whether the extra four minutes was happening within the movie. And I was like going, okay, is it all just coming at the end?

[00:02:46] Sort of a la Lord of the Rings Return of the King style where it's like loads of different endings. And to some extent it is because it is captured within right at the end of the movie and then with three post credits. Yeah. So the good news is for anybody who's never seen Avengers Endgame in the cinema, the entire experience that you would have had when you saw it on Disney Plus or when you saw it on physical disc,

[00:03:13] it's exactly the same experience until we get to the end. You have exactly the same opening all the way through, nothing new in any of the scenes throughout. They may have tweaked something, but nothing that you'd know. And then there's a change right at the end and then it goes into post credit scenes, which are all different and all new leading into Doomsday. So our spoiler free review of Avengers Endgame Encore. Should you go and see it? Well, if you've never seen an IMAX before, it's a great opportunity to see an IMAX and it's really good.

[00:03:43] Yeah. If you've never seen it in the cinema before in any format, it's good and probably worth to see it in the cinema. Possibly to go now whilst there's a good crowd there because depending on your crowd, you might get a few of the whoop whoops and so on. There's still some really iconic moments that come out of Endgame. I'm guessing because it's, what, 10 years since it was released?

[00:04:13] Seven, yeah. There wasn't the reaction like you got sort of back in the day. Yeah, I will say of all of the advertising experiences, the PR team behind Avengers going, this is what Open Night was like back seven years ago. Go and experience it again in the cinema. You'll never experience what it was like on Open Night in the cinema unless you get an entire audience of people who've watched 21 Marvel movies and didn't watch this one and all go to the cinema together to watch it for the first time.

[00:04:41] And like literally we were saying, we were joking because people were getting up and leaving as it got to the last couple of minutes of the movie. And you're looking at them going, you've clearly seen this before because you know the movie's about to end. And you're not going to wait around for the new scenes? Like you just paid 20 odd euro to go and see it in IMAX. And you're not going to wait around for the extra scenes that you paid for? Real surprise that there are still people that will get up and walk away. I even overheard somebody saying to his mates who were waiting till the end, he was like,

[00:05:09] I'm just going to watch them on my phone on the bus on the way home because they've been released on YouTube. Like you're sitting in the cinema, just watch them. There's no reason to leave. Like this was, we watched in the afternoon as well. It's not like he had to get home to bed or anything. Yeah, exactly. It was about half five of the evening. You're going on a Sunday. It's not like you have to rush. The other little conversation overheard was, oh, I thought this was the one with Doom in it. I thought this was the new one, yes.

[00:05:36] Which was a really horrible moment for them as they saw the trailer for Doomsday and then went in to watch the movie they'd seen before. But that's the spoiler-filled part. So highly recommend it if you've never seen the cinema before because it is great anyway. But you probably won't get the experience that they advertise of people whooping and cheering because everybody kind of knows what happened in that movie. It's one of the biggest movies of all time. Definitely. But it was good to reconnect with the re-release of this for sure.

[00:06:06] Yeah. So from here on out, it'll be spoilers for all the things that happen and are brand new to Avengers Endgame. So go see it at the cinema, basically, if you want to see these. But you'll probably see these on YouTube. So absolutely. But the first one of them is where you have the original ending of Cap and Agent Carter, where Cap has gone back to get a bit of nookie nookie with the love of his life, Agent Carter. As we heard from She-Hulk, Captain America. Yeah.

[00:06:35] You have the music playing and you have them kissing and then the change up as it sort of – the break is then you get an interruption with a knock on the door. And you have Agent Carter going, it getting a little bit furtive because it's like, who's that? So it's almost like they're aware that maybe what's happening they have to be careful about. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:07:06] And Agent Carter opens the door and you have Loki coming saying, I might be able to help. And he says, both of you, you can come on out effectively to Steve Rogers, who's hiding behind the door as Agent Carter answers the knock at it. So that's the first one.

[00:07:26] And it is nicely transitioned from right at the end of the movie just into that little bit of extra footage before the end credits, which was good to see. Yeah. So quite a big change from what we saw because in the original movie, the understanding is the Cap's gone back. He's got his lady. They're going to get married. They're going to spend their time together. We have the just before that we had old age Steve Rogers talking to Sam Wilson, who he handed over the shield to.

[00:07:55] And Sam says to him, are you going to tell me about that? Speaking of the wedding ring. And Steve kind of looks in the air and goes, no, I don't think I will. And now maybe that story is going to be involved in Loki and going to be involving Doomsday, going to be involving so many different things. It's not just about the love story that he didn't want to tell his friend Sam Wilson about. It could be about quite significant things that happened in the time that Captain America had gone back to Agent Carter, right? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:08:21] I mean, I think the main thing here is that Loki is interrupting the sort of Steve Rogers that we know the age of at the end of Endgame. And of course, there is another Steve Rogers that were much older, much more wisened with this wedding ring. So potentially, unless they've already been married in that time, Loki could be interrupting the marriage.

[00:08:48] Certainly the duration at which Stephen has spent with Agent Carter at that time. So that's an interesting point, I think. Could be. Don't know exactly, but certainly is interrupting the time because we've literally just seen decrepit Steve Rogers with the ring. This is the Steve Rogers we know from Endgame. Exactly. Captain America. Yeah. Where he's met up with Agent Carter and is around at her house and they're dancing.

[00:09:18] So you're thinking it takes away the happy ending of Agent Carter and Steve Rogers? No, I don't know. It would be interesting to know where Loki interrupts them. That's what makes this exciting, doesn't it? Yeah. So I suppose from the knowledge that's in Endgame, we talked about this so much in the past, especially over the course of Loki season one and season two. What's in Endgame from Bruce Banner is the timeline is the timeline. Whatever your past is, is your past.

[00:09:46] Whatever your future is, starts at a new point when you're changing it. So the new future that was being created when Cap went back to meet up with Agent Carter could be creating a brand new timeline and Loki's coming in at exactly that point so that he stops the end of that future timeline. That's what it could be. But again, we don't know. These are all post credits. Well, to be honest, it is a little strange and sometimes completely get lost in this.

[00:10:11] But Captain Rogers is going back to put all the stones back in place so that the timeline that the ancient one is talking about remains the same. Yeah. However, he does decide to stay behind. Exactly. So whether that creates a new split, more than likely it does.

[00:10:31] Hence why Loki turns up and potentially this notion of, at least from the Doomsday trailer of people having gotten a life that maybe they shouldn't have. Then Steve Rogers is certainly in that category because he is having a life with Agent Carter that he never was able to in the timeline that we saw. And Agent Carter herself.

[00:11:01] She never had that experience. So that's the interesting thing is that he actually decides to undermine everything that Bruce Banner wants him to do for his own reasons. And actually, I can get that after watching Endgame again.

[00:11:17] And so the other post credit is with Bruce then in a bunker, keeping himself away from the world. Yeah. So, you know, again, spoilers for Spider-Man Brand New Day. This is a sequel directly from Spider-Man Brand New Day where he's put himself two miles underground saying nobody can ever reach him here. The Hulk can't get out. Nobody can get into them.

[00:11:48] He's saying it's been 10 years since any kind of incident happened with the Hulk. And then in Brand New Day, the Hulk is unleashed back to what he was like back in, what was this? Age of Ultron, I think was the last time he would have been an unleashed, uncontrolled Hulk. Yeah. And that's from Wanda, to be honest. I think so, yeah. She kind of precipitates that. Mm-hmm.

[00:12:15] So, again, before that, it would be with sort of the really early Marvel Hulk movie. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Because by Avengers time, he was able to control himself. Yes. He was saying the way I keep control is by I'm always angry kind of thing. Whereas in Age of Ultron, it was Wanda breaks the connection on him. And in Brand New Day, it's broken again. And he is the unleashed Hulk.

[00:12:41] So here he is, sticking himself in a bunker, doing experiments, talking to camera, saying he's down here. He can't break out. Nobody can get into him. And then we hear some noises. Yeah. The screen starts to flicker. And then it all goes kind of... Blank for a while. The camera is clearly interrupted and sort of knocked out, at least in terms of broadcasting. So you don't really say anything. But what you do hear is you hear Doom's voice saying, I'm here to collect you.

[00:13:11] Yes, you do. There seems to be a bit of a scuffle. You hear the roar of Hulk. And then as the image comes back, the Hulk has gone from this sort of bunker. But there are the sort of the green doom-like lines that are formed on the ground of the bunker, like you see in the trailer around his throne. Right.

[00:13:37] Where you have this kind of green energy of whatever it might be. So he's kind of teleported in, if you will. Yeah. Taken Bruce from the banner bunker and put to collect him. So that's kind of an interesting idea around what that means.

[00:13:59] You know, there's part of me wondering, like, Doom has, you know, certainly in the past for me, and it's why I do like the character a lot. And always because, you know, kind of felt like he could get rid of Fantastic Four quite easily. But Stephen Strange has featured quite a lot in his stories, of which actually Secret Wars, the latest version of that.

[00:14:26] Stephen Strange was involved in that as almost like his right-hand man, his deputy or sheriff, if you will. I just wonder whether in this world will that happen or will it be maybe Bruce Banner? Maybe that's the collection that he's trying to bring together some form of team, but one that he feels he can rationalize.

[00:14:50] Because even from the trailers of Doomsday, it feels like he's trying to maybe, if you collect Namor, for example, or even Black Panther. Possibly. And that's why you've got the arguments breaking out and this potential for tension between the characters that are coming through on Doomsday trailer.

[00:15:16] I don't know, but maybe that's part of the collection that he's trying to get them on his side. Yeah. And what's kind of interesting about the particular ones that you've called out there, all of them, I think, are members of the Illuminati in the comic books, including Doom at times, maybe not Hulk, maybe Bruce Banner was involved because he's a very, very smart, intelligent person. So he might have been involved in one of the lineups of the Illuminati.

[00:15:40] But I kind of like the idea that maybe Doom is setting up a group of very intelligent members of the MCU to work together and come up with a solution to what's going on. So, again, we don't know what that is. Yeah. No idea. We might know it in the next. Yeah. But it is why, you know, he is collecting Bruce Banner. Is the Hulk. Is this the only person that he is kidnapping, collecting?

[00:16:11] Or are there others which maybe we've seen kind of hints at in the Doomsday trailer? So, yeah, interesting notion this. I do wonder, again, if this is somehow tied up in the notion that this is the Fantastic Four's version of Tony Stark in some way. Their universe, yeah.

[00:16:31] Then possibly, who knows, maybe Banner is his natural ally rather than Stephen Strange. I mean, it was always that Doom could be convincing and he could put together a rational argument. And it was always that it wasn't necessarily that he was wrong about people either. But in the main, it was so total and indiscriminate in terms of how it may affect other people.

[00:17:01] And that's why a lot of people, certainly from Secret Wars and with the Incursions, that's part of the issue that they have with them is that it's so destructive. But this is the only way that he sees. And it's almost his method of how he follows through on his ideas rather than necessarily the ideas themselves. Well, yes. Again, it's always that justifiable thing about the villains, especially how they're written in the MCU. That's why Doom fits in quite well.

[00:17:31] He has great ideas, but his ideas always end off with, and I sit at the top of him. I control it. I control it. So there's a great recent story with Doom in the comics where everybody has actually agreed to Doom's plan. But the plan has ended off with him in a leadership role. And all the heroes are looking at each other going, but we can't accept this. And it turns out every leader has rolled in behind Doom's persuasion.

[00:18:00] He hasn't used magic. He hasn't used anything. He's just persuaded them all, and he's sitting at the top. So they have to work out how to undo that. But yes, that's kind of how Doom works. So it'd be very interesting to see how that plays out. But we're going to move on to the next post-credits scene, because this one's really interesting. It was a little mini episode of Loki. They have said a couple of times that you need to watch Loki season two if you want to get a bit of a lead on Doomsday. And they were right, because in this post-credits scene, you'd have no idea who most of the cast are.

[00:18:28] It starts out with Miss Minutes, who we all know from Loki season one and two, being quite a villainous little creature. But a great little moment when we just have her pop up on screen, giving instructions to the TVA as we're walking through. We see Owen Wilson's Mobius walking through the corridors of the TVA, the Time Variance Authority. I love that he walks past a poster of Loki where it says, employee of all time instead of employee of the month.

[00:18:54] At the moment, Loki is in Idrisil, the tree, guiding all the timelines. It's where he is. And the rest of the TVA are still monitoring all the other universes to make sure they're not falling apart. So we have Ke Huy Quan in there once again. Yeah, as Obi. As Obi, yeah. He's watching on. They're all watching on. And then we see a massive incursion happening. We saw incursions in Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness. That was a post-credits. Him and Clay.

[00:19:24] She asks him if he's going to come and help and his third eye pops out, so to speak. But incursions are basically where two universes are colliding with each other, as they explain in this post-credits scene. One wiping out the other. So it starts out there. They don't seem too concerned because this kind of thing happens. It's basically when one world has gone too far and the other one's taking over from it.

[00:19:51] But I think that they're not too worried about it. But nonetheless, they're relatively spooked that there was no forewarning of this. Yes. So it is a big event. It is. However you want to slice it. Oh, I'm sure. So it's a big event. There was no warning on it. But then things just start escalating all over the place. So there's more than one incursion starts to happen.

[00:20:14] Then it looks like there's missiles being fired at two different multiverses of planets from the multiverse that are firing missiles at one another to destroy them. So it all starts to escalate and escalate until then you start saying, hang on, there's hundreds of them. No, there's thousands of them.

[00:20:38] And ultimately, the figure that we're left with, that there are 3,000 incursions happening all at once, simultaneously. And this is then freaking them all out. And of course, we have the whole phrase from Tony Stark and his daughter, I love you 3,000. So whether it's got any connection or relevance to that, don't know. But certainly there's that potential connection.

[00:21:07] But ultimately, what is happening, it's gone from zero to 3,000 incursions very rapidly all at once. So this isn't even that it's a slow situation, at least not what the TVA is witnessing at that moment in time. And it may have been happening before that. And it may happen after that. But at the moment, this is like simultaneously 3,000 incursions are happening.

[00:21:34] And then this becomes an issue. So yes. And Kee-Kwon's character is saying, this is the end of the multiverse. It's effectively all of the incursions that are happening. He's stressing that this is the multiverse ending. So yeah, it's going to happen. We're going to have everything coming together. It's all happening at the same time for them. But yeah, it started out with there's no warning. Then it was, oh, there's already a second one. Then it's 10. Then it's 20.

[00:22:02] Then it's up to 3,000 by the end of the scene. So absolutely massive things going on here. I love that it was done as if it was an episode of the TV show with all the cast there. All the background cast were there as well. So hopefully we'll see more of them in Doomsday. But what a great way to set up all of the incursions happening throughout. That touch of one universe firing missiles to the other universe. Just think in comic books, I just think it's interesting.

[00:22:31] It was always that Mr. Fantastic was trying to find a way to save all of the universes, to try and separate them apart from each other and not cause the incursions. I think it was Dr. Doom that was trying to find a way to save his specific universe by sending missiles out to blow up any universe that was coming towards theirs. But none successful in the comic books. So yeah, really interesting. Just a little touch of that in there. One final post-credit scene then to talk about. Yeah. What a great little touch here.

[00:23:01] So this is from the original Endgame. There was the hammer of Iron Man, of Tony Stark, when he was in the cave in the first ever Iron Man. They left that in as the touch saying goodbye to Tony Stark. This time they've extended it. You hear the hammer exactly the same as you did in the original movie, but it extends and then you get a flash of an anvil and the hammer and then you get a flash just up on screen of light and then you see the mask of doom.

[00:23:29] So is this an indication that instead of creating Iron Man in that cave, he created doom for himself? Is it just flashing the fact that it is Tony Stark that is creating his doom armor? Or we won't know, I don't think, until we see Doomsday and see the creation of this character and what will happen. Why is our Tony Stark Victor Von Doom? Well, I don't think he is our Tony Stark. He's not, yes. I think that's the point. He's the Fantastic Four universe, is Tony Stark. Exactly.

[00:23:59] I mean, if you assume the post-credits from the Fantastic Four and the Doomsday trailer where you have Sue Storm, Invisible Woman, saying how we thought he was damaged, we didn't realize he was broken. So it's certainly someone that is absolutely coming from their universe. I mean, you even see Pedro Pascal as Mr. Fantastic saying,

[00:24:28] did you do this, Doom, in the trailer? So I don't think it's as such. It's not our Tony Stark, but it could be their Tony Stark equivalent. Hence why some of the parallels around 3000 Incursions and the reason for that, the reason for the same twist on the hammer and the anvil at the end.

[00:24:58] So all these different things could be linking in that, you know, maybe it is their version of Tony Stark. It's just in this multiverse, he lost everything. He didn't just lose himself, like in Endgame. And I think that's the interesting thing. There's a real vein of potential bitterness that doesn't come to fruition in Endgame. It pops its head up and it shows itself.

[00:25:27] But you have Tony Stark saying, this confrontation is corrosive. Maybe in their world, with everything that happens in a similar timeline, that confrontation, that vengeance is required by the equivalent. But that's assuming it is going to be Tony Stark and it isn't just Victor Von Doom played by Robert Downey Jr.

[00:25:56] And so it will be interesting how they play that because they're certainly connecting it in to a lot of the touch points that you see in Endgame here, as though to make that connection. Is it a red herring? Who knows? But I don't think it is given the level of them here. I think it might be saying, in another universe, this may have been the outcome for Tony Stark.

[00:26:22] Because you actually do get hints of it in how he treats, say, for example, Captain America. You know, I think, where he's saying, I've got my second chance here. But he's coaxed out of it. And in the end, yes, he doesn't lose his wife or child, but he dies himself and leaves them widowed and orphaned in that sense.

[00:26:52] So it'll be interesting, I think, just to see how they're going to play this. Absolutely. You know, it's very evident when you're watching Endgame with the knowledge of Doomsday coming, which we didn't know seven years ago. We thought that was the end of Tony Stark. We thought that was the end of Steve Rogers. Well, actually, Chris thought Tony Stark would come back. I think he expected him back a lot earlier than we're getting him back. But it's interesting when you're watching it with that knowledge and you hear that moment from Tony Stark where he's saying,

[00:27:19] I have ground rules to being involved in this time heist. The ground rules are everybody has to come back. I have to keep what I've gained. I must keep that. And maybe I'll get out of this alive. Those are his three ground rules. He doesn't get out of it alive in the version of Endgame we just watched in the cinema. We all know that. But maybe in the other universe, what happens is he loses everything he gained and that causes him to become this version of Victor Von Doom. Potentially, that's it.

[00:27:48] Another thing I was really interested in is in the comics. The reason why Victor Von Doom wears the mask to cover his face is because he's been so badly damaged from the accident that gave the Fantastic Four. Their powers and him, his powers. And looking at Tony Stark when he dies, he is so badly burnt from using the Infinity Stones that you're kind of going, if he kept that body, he would probably want to cover it up with Victor Von Doom's

[00:28:17] Doom outfit, effectively. So it's just interesting that he is someone that's been damaged really badly in that scene in Infinity War. So even if he somehow survived or came back, whatever it would be, that he could look like that underneath the Doom mask. I think that would be interesting. Because we haven't seen that, of course. We will see that in the future. We've only seen his eyes. And lastly, and really importantly for this future version and looking ahead to Is it Tony Stark? Is it not?

[00:28:47] Is it Victor Von Doom? Is it not? Really importantly in the MCU, they have always said death will matter regardless. So, for example, Guardians of the Galaxy, Groot died. The Groot that we've had after that, baby Groot and teenage Groot, is a completely different character from original Groot. Same with Gamora. She's dead. The new Gamora we have is a different Gamora. Same with Nebula. These are all Guardians of the Galaxy characters who've all died. And the other person that's come in to replace them is a different character,

[00:29:16] even though it's played by the same actor. So here, this new version with Robert Downey Jr. will be very different because they don't want to give up what the storyline intended to have, the sacrifice of Tony Stark. They won't give that up by whatever story they tell in Avengers Doomsday and onwards. At least I hope not. No, I don't think so. And I'm suddenly saying, undoing the death of Tony Stark.

[00:29:41] So regardless of everything that's happened in comic books of characters undoing deaths and coming back, that's never actually happened in the MCU. We've just had different alternate versions of characters taking on from that point. We've never seen a character come back from the dead as such. So, yeah, that was just a point I wanted to make before we go on. I think that's it for our Avengers Endgame Encore post-credits discussion. Yeah, absolutely. Never thought I'd be speaking for 30 minutes on four post-credits.

[00:30:11] You didn't. I definitely did. I mean, yeah, there's a lot to unpack, but there also is a question of now just show us. They've given us that juicy little foursome. So, like, just need to see Doomsday. I will say I am very excited for it now. Oh, me too. I don't think I was as excited before I went to see Endgame. I still think there's an even more exciting trailer to come out, to be honest. Yeah, probably.

[00:30:39] But I appreciate they probably don't want to spoil too much, certainly with these four extra minutes through these little post-credits scenes. So, yeah, absolutely looking forward to Doomsday. Can't wait. It feels like it has gravitas a bit like Endgame does now. Just by sheer association, I think, which is kind of interesting. Absolutely. Well, thanks so much for joining us for this.

[00:31:05] We will be back on Movies on TV Podcast Industries for the next Marvel show on Disney+, which is Vision Quest. Absolutely. Coming out in just two weeks' time. Yeah. The return of Vision, the final part of the trilogy of Vision and Wanda-related shows started with WandaVision. Went through Agatha all along, and now it's finishing off with Vision Quest, which will be really interesting to see. So, very excited for that. Stay subscribed to the podcast on TV Podcast Industries to get access to those episodes.

[00:31:33] We're also covering Lanterns, the last two episodes of the DC show, Lanterns, which is on HBO every week and has been a really, really good show as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com to subscribe to the podcast, listen to all those episodes, and, of course, send your feedback in to us for everything that you're watching to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com, and we'll be back with you very soon. Excellent stuff. Thank you so much, fellow defenders, for joining us for this little run-through of the four

[00:32:02] post-credits. Until Vision Quest, keep watching, keep listening, and, of course, keep defending. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.