VisionQuest Feedback Episodes 1 and 2

[00:00:00] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're on to our feedback episode VisionQuest Episodes 1 and 2.

[00:00:39] Welcome back fellow Defenders to this episode of Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and this time we're talking all about your feedback for VisionQuest Episode 1, No Strings, and Episode 2, Theseus. I am one of your hosts, John. I am your other host, Derek. Yeah, we got the first two episodes of VisionQuest in advance of the episodes airing on Disney+, so we were able to put our episodes out on Wednesday as the episodes released on Disney+.

[00:01:09] We won't be able to do that for the rest of the season, but we got lots and lots of feedback from our wonderful fellow Defenders, which we wanted to chat about. And we'll do that on this episode and then we'll come back for Episode 3 and Episode 4 and hopefully with even more feedback from you on those two episodes.

[00:01:23] Yes, absolutely. Keep it coming in though, fellow Defenders, because we do love to chit-chat around your thoughts, theories and observations about all things to do with Marvel and in particular as we're getting into VisionQuest. VisionQuest. Absolutely, yeah. All you need to do is just email them to us at feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. Pop on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash tvpodcastindustries and go to our spoiler posts over there.

[00:01:51] Or if you want to join us on Discord, the details of Discord are in the show notes for this very episode. And you can leave your thoughts on the spoiler posts there, which come out every week as the episodes come out. Excellent stuff. I think we can get into our feedback section for Episode 1. First up, we have an email from Coffee and Vodka. Yes, Coffee and Vodka says, Greetings, fellow Mindmender defenders. If looking at the Wanda Agatha Vision Trilogy from a future project perspective, reality's almost sure to disappoint.

[00:02:21] If watching them through trauma, disillusionment and self-discovery from three plus separate gender-related points of view, it's quite interesting. Of the three, however, VisionQuest had me buying drinks at I'm Not Good With People. Tight writing, crisp characterization and perfect pacing complete with wonderfully delivered quips while Spader's a treat and Bettany remains his polishedly excellent self. The best aspect is Terry Matalus still in top form after turning garbage into gold on the Trek scene.

[00:02:49] The one very minor complaint I have is Diane Morgan. Much as I respect and or adore her is almost too deadpan here. Any early theories on who Paladin's employer is? 4.5 Mind and Palaces, Scuttlebutlers and cancelled roasts out of five. Peace and take care, Coffee and Vodka. Great stuff, Coffee and Vodka. Totally with you there on Spader being an absolute treat here. That's great. Really, really enjoying him.

[00:03:16] Yeah, Diane Morgan is very deadpan, but I do always love her deadpan. So there's never almost too deadpan. I really love it when she plays deadpan. Yeah, me too. In terms of early theories on who Paladin's employer is, who the buyer is, yeah, I'm really not too sure at the moment. I think so far that for me is the mystery.

[00:03:46] Yeah, exactly. So I'm quite looking to see how that unfolds. I mean, I could have a few guesses for sure, but I'm not entirely sure I picked up anything too much from these first two episodes. Yeah, like is there any character in the whole of the WandaVision or Agatha Along kind of characters that would send somebody after Vision? Maybe it's Mephisto, except he was in Iron Harsh instead of Agatha Along. He could come back. He could, of course, and hopefully he will.

[00:04:12] But my point is you'd probably want to have someone from those other two shows, so maybe Agatha has sent Paladin after Vision because she's the only person we can think of that might have known that Vision, this Vision is around. Could be Billy. Maybe it's Agatha or Billy. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know why Billy would want to kill his father after leaving rather than find him. No, but he just needs to get him. Like I don't think Paladin is out on a contract kill. It is about bringing him back alive, unharmed.

[00:04:42] So it's just his methods are a little bit gunny. Just there. So, yes, he is getting injured for sure, but I'm not entirely sure that's what the contractor wants here. Yeah. Well, we'll see, I guess, as the episodes go on. As for Diane Morgan being in the show, I love Diane Morgan. I love her film character, as we mentioned before. I'm just happy she's getting some of that Marvel money. Yes, absolutely.

[00:05:10] I suspect she was probably just sitting in a room recording all of her lines into the microphone. And then they passed on all her line readings, maybe, to Todd Stashwick. Or maybe they didn't even do that. Maybe he just was pretending to act alongside her. But I don't know whether she'll meet any of the characters. I hope she does as the season progresses. Yeah, me too. Me too. Looking forward to seeing who that character is for sure. Excellent stuff. Thanks, Coffee and Vodka. Thanks, Coffee and Vodka. Also on email, Tyler Sims.

[00:05:40] He says, Hey guys, Tyler here from the US. And while watching the first two episodes, two things stuck out to me. The first is that inside of Vision's mind construct, we have all the different Stark AIs like Friday, Jarvis, Edith, Dummy, you and even Ultron. What stood out to me was that we didn't have Karen, the AI that was in Spider-Man's suit in Homecoming that was given to him by Stark. Did Vision not care about her?

[00:06:08] Or more realistically, do you think there's some kind of rights tie up with the character since she debuted in the Sony film? Secondly, the age discrepancy between Tommy and Billy in their new bodies. When Billy was putting Tommy's soul into a host, the drowning boy being bullied seemed a lot younger from the description. But seeing Thomas now a year and a half after the incident, he's like a young adult, probably 19 to 22 years old.

[00:06:35] I'd need to see them side by side in a scene to know if it would really bother me. Thanks so much, Tyler, for the feedback. I have no idea why Karen, the AI, wasn't involved here or isn't involved so far. You never know. We might see her in some of the other episodes. But yeah, maybe it's just to do with it being in a Sony property.

[00:07:05] I don't know. She was played by Jennifer Connelly in Homecoming. I think that was the one we were confusing Edith with when we were talking about the episode. But yeah, it had already been taken over, I guess, by Edith, that AI. So Karen wasn't there for very long. And whether Vision would have had any memory of her or any connection with her.

[00:07:31] It seems like he was collecting the AIs as he went, which is why he has Ultron in there. But yeah, it's entirely possible it is just because Sony has Karen as their AI in the Spider-Man movies rather than in the Marvel movies. Maybe it's that. Yeah. And to be honest, in terms of the kid in the swimming pool when Billy is putting Tommy into Thomas' body, I'd probably need to have a recap of Agatha all along just to see.

[00:08:00] Because yeah, I just don't really remember. But that's something that maybe I'm not too sure would bother me quite so much. But I do know what you mean. Maybe for continuity and how it works between the two shows. But yeah, I think... I didn't get that. I got it that it was a teenager around the kind of age of Billy. I didn't think it was a kid in that scene. I watched that episode quite recently and I didn't think it was a young boy.

[00:08:29] I thought he was going to be around the same age as Billy is in Agatha all along. I kind of always suspected and there were rumors that back at the time in Agatha all along that Rory would be the person picking up this role. So I don't know. I didn't suspect it was a young boy that was drowning, that it was somebody else that would be around the same age as Billy is what I suspected because they were going to age them both up around the same way. So yeah. So it seems to be about right for me. Yeah, I think it's over for me.

[00:08:56] But I just don't recall from Agatha all along, that's all. Yeah, absolutely. Great stuff. Thanks, Tyler. Good to get your feedback from you. Also, we have a third email in. Yes, we have another email in from Kevin Smith who says, Hey guys, thanks as always for your podcast. I actually put two and two together recently. I'm a high school English teacher and for our diploma exam, I often have to say to my students that they need to do more than just a recap the piece of literature that they're focusing on, but must say something about it.

[00:09:24] A short summary, I say, is okay to remind us, but the teachers reading their essay have definitely read the piece, so a recap is more frustrating than helpful. It struck me that while most podcasts do exactly that recap scene by scene of a show that the audience has almost certainly watched and doesn't need, often doing no more than that or pointing out a minor detail. So your podcast gets higher scores automatically by avoiding that and getting quickly to its observations. Actually structured much like an essay. I'm also trying to persuade my students that the essay is not ideal

[00:09:53] because most of the podcasts they listen to are essays. Anyway, what prompted me to write in is something you may already know, that the initial partnership between Metallus, Stashwick and Hampshire was 12 Monkeys, which with 47 episodes was a more enduring collaboration than their Star Trek Picard work. Oh, very good, Kevin. Thanks for that. I did start watching 12 Monkeys quite recently. I think myself and John watched the first two or three episodes pretty recently, so we didn't get to the point where Todd Stashwick and Emily Hampshire are on screen together.

[00:10:23] But yeah, I know Terry Metallus does love working with this cast in various places. And I think it was Todd Stashwick and Orla Brady who'd worked together on Star Trek Picard with Terry Metallus in the writer's room for that one, which we covered on the podcast, which is why it kind of had jumped out to us as being the two of them coming from that show over onto here. I think we probably mentioned 12 Monkeys over on our coverage of Picard. So we're carrying on that trend by mentioning Picard over here on Vision Quest.

[00:10:52] Yeah, hi, Kevin. Really liking Stashwick and Metallus. And I think, yeah, we started watching the 12 Monkeys, but yeah, definitely need to get further into that series. But really enjoyed what they did on Picard. And glad you're enjoying the recaps that we do of the podcast, for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks so much for that, Kevin.

[00:11:22] Let's head on over to Facebook. Yes, first up, we have Mathematician for episode one, who says, This was all about Spader for me. Loved how they tapped into that Raymond Reddington energy as a man who consumed human history and art and with Red knowing his Greek mythology so well, even using the Trojan horse as a way of getting his instructions to Paladin via Pigeon. Could watch that man perform for hours.

[00:11:51] Loved how they used Jarvis hiding outside the pub as a way of letting us know what Vision is able to see. Himself by hacking dashcams, doorbell cams, security camera, and even satellites, but using Jarvis as a way of him processing it all. At this point, I'm wondering why Ultron tried to convince Vision to visit Fiona for a roast. Roasts are the best, by the way. Toby Carvery for tea tonight. And, of course, leaked Vision's whereabouts to Paladin,

[00:12:20] and if he's trying to find a way of distracting Vision so he can escape the attic. Philomena Kunk being the latest techie tech person to work for Paladin and her nod back to Quill's depiction of Thanos as a ballsack. Fabulous. Love how Edith is still being the hero by having a pre-scanned and logged escape route just in case to remind Vision if he ever came under attack, so pops into the forefront of his mind to point out the skylight to him.

[00:12:46] I was a bit confused as to why the three shows are seen as a trilogy, with them apparently having only a tenuous link, but understanding that WandaVision adds the new Vision's origin story. Agatha was Billy's tail, and this was Tommy's, now I get it, boss. Paladin appears to be a worthy enemy, smart enough to find the hacked police interview of Tommy freaking out and explaining the hex, Tommy's memories of his parents.

[00:13:15] In his new body he has just possessed and decides to go after him as a way of getting to Vision. Mazel Tov, intriguing opening, four out of five enormous Toby Yorkshire puddings. Looking forward to that Toby's dinner, I guess. Excellent. Sounds very nice indeed. A bit of Yorkshire puddings along with the old roast. Thank you so much, mathematicians. It's certainly better than blood pudding, which would never be served with it. Well, indeed, yes.

[00:13:44] Yeah, I mean, I'm glad you kind of see that trilogy element to it now. I think as you're right, WandaVision is the origin and the source material of not just Vision, but Billy and Tommy as well. And here we have Vision and Tommy's sort of treatment here, whereas Agatha all along was primarily Billy's tale and how he came into being here.

[00:14:11] So, yeah, it's a great little trilogy for me, these three shows. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks for that, mathematician. Do you want to take the next piece of feedback from Mathematician episode two, John? Sure. On episode two, Mathematician says, To start off with, I'm a little disappointed that they chose to show Tommy as a mutant rather than magically powered, like Tommy. Having Billy find a recently dead body for Tommy and Agatha was clever.

[00:14:41] Having that body be a kid who just happened to be the right age, have the name Tommy, and also have a latent mutant X gene for super speed shown by the electric cattle prod trauma activating his power is lazy writing for me. They should have had the speedster part of Tommy tied to his soul and it transfer over to the body with the rest of him rather than have us accept the astronomical coincidence that the imaginary speedster's soul created by Wanda's magic

[00:15:10] found a body with a speeder latent gene and who is dying at the exact time he had to for Tommy's soul to possess. Maybe that's just me because mathematicians don't like coincidence. We work with probability, but the soul should have possessed the speed power, not the X gene in the body Tommy possessed. Love Paladin, by the way, not come across the actor before, but he is killing it as the bounty hunter here,

[00:15:38] continuing the theme of Wizard of Oz Easter eggs from Agatha with some of his comments to Vision. Smart enough to realise that even though White Vision is pretending to be apathetic to the fate of Tommy, as Tommy is the son of Hex Vision, that he wouldn't even be there at the Destroyed Pub were he not starting to feel some empathy for Vision's son. The way he just puts a bullet through the head of someone who harms people who don't deserve it is cold.

[00:16:07] At this point, they've done a great job of confusing me into not knowing if Ultron is mentoring White Vision into having the feelings and emotions he craves or just looking for an angle where he can escape the attic. This part of the writing is far from lazy and created a real mystery for me, Spade are pulling off the role magnificently yet again. Ultron ultimately fires up White Vision enough to motivate him to go head-to-head with Paladin,

[00:16:34] and although Jarvis is sceptical if he's doing the right thing, Vision goes with the visit to the sanitarium and we get a hilarious scene of Edith acting like Ethan Hunt and using a Viewmaster had one when I was about seven to analyse the room for him. Vision realises it won't be a nice serene visit and knows he's about to be attacked. John Denver's Eye Calypso, a song about curiosity of human nature playing here, was genius and Vision finds Tommy.

[00:17:03] We knew it was a trap and it was. An EMP cage, Ultron wonderfully quoting REM then saying, oh hello to who? Mysterious. Paladin blasting Vision with Adamantium must have sourced it from Black Market through Tiamat. Oh, I love those little connections in the MCU and Jarvis taking Edith's place by being the hero in what felt like a sad moment of self-sacrificing

[00:17:31] the AI we've known and loved for almost 20 years. Vision and Tommy escape amazing stuff. Like father, like son. Did we do a whiskey watch on what Paladin was drinking in the pub, boys? We did. We certainly did. Mathematician gives five out of five of Ultron's dry digestives impossible to eat without a cuppa. Brilliant episode. He continued, I've watched the episode again

[00:17:59] and this time looking closely at Tommy and his powers and although there is some plausibility that he is a mutant and therefore a freak of statistics for his spirit to end up in that exact body, I can't say for sure. So, I'm apologising for being critical towards the writer for that one. The speedster powers could have come along with the spirit and may not have been dormant until the bus bully electrocuted him. Still, five out of five. Unbelievable episode. Excellent stuff. Mathematician.

[00:18:29] Very in-depth there. I think, I'm glad you kind of did the rewatch because I think for me, I didn't get anything around the X gene or that mutant gene being in Thomas. I just took it that originally when Tommy gets his powers in WandaVision, he has the speedster ability just like his uncle did. So, that's where it's being transferred over and then I just thought it just transferred over

[00:18:57] the minute he comes into the body of Thomas. Kind of like how you said it was attached to the soul when it was being transferred. So, I kind of just assumed that. I wasn't really thinking of the sort of other possible mechanics around doing that. So, glad you kind of looked through because I thought, yeah, it was just simply that it was attached to the soul, the being of Tommy in the hex.

[00:19:27] Yeah, there's some really good music, I think, in this show. Certainly, yeah, the Calypso song from John Denver is a real sort of nice one to have here playing about the curiosity of human nature. And I'm really glad you're enjoying Paladin, Todd Stashwick, because, yeah, he's great. He's been in a few things, as you've probably picked up here from ourselves, 12 Monkeys, but also then Star Trek Picard.

[00:19:56] So, there's a few other places where we have podcasted about him. But really glad you're enjoying both these episodes. Absolutely, yeah. Some really, really good stuff there. Thanks so much for your feedback on those two episodes, Mathematician. Let's pop on to our next piece of feedback, which comes in from Denise DeFlorio Lardi, who says, Adam and Hume and Munition, another X-Men breadcrumb. Amazing first two episodes. Yes, we had all but the banner reading necessary plot exposition in episode one,

[00:20:25] but it was all done so well. Four proper Sunday roasts out of five for me. Yeah, they definitely were working very hard. When I re-watched the episodes a couple of times now, it does feel like the first episode is, and you might have missed this. Oh, and you might have missed this. Oh, you probably need to know this piece of information. And I think it is really important. In a positive way, though, I'm really glad they are continuing the story of all these characters that we've watched for such a long time in Vision Quest.

[00:20:54] Because, you know, Vision's been around since the start, as we said, when it was back to Jarvis, played by Paul Battenay originally. You know, that's what, 15 years ago now, isn't it? Or at least 12 or 13 years ago, anyway. So having to kind of recap all of those elements so that we can get a real story about these characters is great. I'm hoping that it's landing well with people as well. Thanks for that, Denise. Heather Wallace says, There was so much to enjoy in the first two episodes, both the stories, how they are put together, and the incredible casting. I love that Terry Matalas has brought

[00:21:23] Emily Hampshire and Todd Stashrick from 12 Monkeys to this series. They are such good actors. Having James Darcy as another digital version of the original Jarvis was superb, and I hope he left some of his code buried somewhere deep in Vision to be resurrected. The music choices stood out to me. In the first episode, The Last Farewell by Roger Whittaker is playing in the pub, and in the second episode, Calypso by John Denver is a background to Vision Storming the Asylum. They were both hits in the US in 1975, although The Last Farewell was originally recorded in 1971.

[00:21:52] Terry Matalas was born in 1975. Is that how he knows them? They were both very moving for me because my parents loved both songs, and I remember them from my childhood. Hearing a song unexpectedly after decades that was loved by someone you've lost is very powerful. I'm sure Terry Matalas didn't mean to bring me to tears, but it was my own moment of what is grief but love persevering? My only complaint is that there is no way that pub was in Edinburgh. I don't think there's a single piece of real estate in that city that stands alone in the street with nothing around it.

[00:22:22] Maybe it was in Fife. Very good, Heather. I had exactly the same thing after we watched that first episode when myself and John were talking. I lived in Edinburgh for a while when I was working over there, and yeah, there's no way. That's miles out of any Scottish city. It looked even like it was beyond the suburbs, to be honest. It did. It's out in some motorway out in the countryside. Heather had a little bit of feedback about her podcast as well. She says, Hi guys, I'm listening to your discussion now

[00:22:52] and just wanted to comment on the word selkie. Selkies are mythological creatures. They inhabit the water as seals, but can remove their skins on land to become women. This is a folk tale of a fisherman who fell in love and married a transformed selkie and stole her seal skin so she couldn't return to seal form. They had children, but she was sad and would stand at the water's edge looking at the ocean. One day, one of the children said, Mama, why does father keep a leather coat locked away? She found her seal skin and returned to the water, coming close to the shore every night to see her family.

[00:23:21] So if a vision and wanted to have connections to a pub called the selkie is very fitting. Excellent stuff. Oh, nice context there. Heather, that's really good. Absolutely. Yeah, I think one of the episodes of the Dead Boy Detectives also had something similar around that. I don't know whether it was called a selkie, but it was around this idea of creatures coming onto land and being sort of captured there, whether it was by accident or on purpose.

[00:23:50] But I'm absolutely convinced of that. And I think certainly, you know, the source material of that book would lead into something like that mythological creature and story, you know? So I think we have encountered a selkie before. I think we have. I think we have. Literally, of course. Maybe we have done. We wouldn't know. Well, that's true. And it was really nice as well, Heather, just hearing you talk about the music

[00:24:19] from these episodes, because, yeah, I think it's really such a great way if music connects in, whether it's something from childhood, from loved ones, from memory, or just, you know, the composer or the musician is able to sort of pitch the right tune for the right mood. You know, so good and so powerful.

[00:24:47] So really glad that you enjoyed the musical choices there. Yeah, there's definitely songs that connect you to people that you've lost and their music that they would have been into as well. So, yeah, totally understand that. Thanks for that, Heather. Yeah. Over on our Discord channel, Richard Blaze says, well, they were a bit bloody amazing. Nice to see the total madness of WandaVision back again. Ultron, though, is by far the superior character here throughout these two episodes. Not to say the other characters are poor,

[00:25:16] but every time he appears, he totally owns it. My eldest Alfie, who is 17 now, is still hugely obsessed with everything to do with Wanda and is now completely obsessed with this. And both of us cannot wait to see where this circuit board takes us. Though I do wish you'd pipe down about how Wanda is not dead. I think a whole load of mountain fell on her, unfortunately, Alfie. I'm really sorry to say that. I do like how they address that, though,

[00:25:46] in these first episodes, where he says, yes, there was a weight of a mountain was on her. And I think it's Fiona in the pub says, yes, emotions can feel like that at times. Yes. So it's a good little way of addressing that. But glad yourself and Alfie are enjoying this third part of the WandaVision trilogy. Can't believe Alfie's 17.

[00:26:14] I remember when Richard used to mention him back in the days, 10 years ago, when Alfie was a young child. So yeah, great that he's still interested in the MCU. I hope the show hasn't put itself in a position where everybody's waiting for Wanda to turn up and she doesn't turn up at the end. Well, that's true. I hope that if they do mention her more often that she does turn up towards the end of the series because it'd be really disappointing if people are holding out for this show to bring her back, you know?

[00:26:42] So yeah, but I do like that they just made that little comment there and it was amazing to see the amount of Elizabeth Olsen scenes be shown on screen there. So I hope she's getting a good kickback of money, at least. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. Great stuff. Thanks, Richard. Also over on Discord, we got feedback in for Episode 1 and 2 from Paolo. He starts off on Episode 1 saying, Great start to this concluding Act 3. Love the different AI personas and so happy to have Ocaron back manipulating behind the scenes.

[00:27:12] The carrier pigeon email joke cracked me up. I'm not completely sold on Paladin as the antagonist, although I know there is someone behind him. On Episode 2, he says, Not as strong as the first episode, unfortunately. I might have missed something, but doesn't Vision vaporize one of the goons with his laser eyes? What stops him to do the same to Paladin? If it's the EMP trap, then at least show him trying and failing. I mean, laser eyes are practically instantaneous. After the first adamantium bullet, I would 100% use them. These inconsistencies really spoil

[00:27:41] my suspension of disbelief. Also, am I the only one thinking that Jarvis's code is just sitting somewhere until there is enough power to reboot him? Okay, enough ranting. Looking forward to the next episodes and to when Ultron gets his real-world body back. Great stuff. Thanks, Paralo. Yeah, I think with why he doesn't use his laser eyes on Paladin, and you're right, he does vaporize one of the goons because, again, I think we've seen Paladin

[00:28:09] sort of do a bullet to the head at least once. So he's fairly cold, I think, as mathematicians sort of pointed out. Here we have Vision also has a detachment about him, I think, and I think that comes across here with him vaporizing yet one of the goons. I suspect he's not doing it to the Paladin because he's wanting to know who has hired him. Oh, maybe. So I'm guessing if he kills the Paladin,

[00:28:39] no, he could take off a leg, maybe, but it looked like when he hit the goon, it's a bit like the Genesis project from the Search for Spock, Star Trek, the Search for Spock, but it kind of starts rippling across the entire body. But I was thinking, yeah, maybe you could take out a leg or an arm, that would be, but I don't know, yes. I would say it's more, Paladin has more information that Vision needs. Yeah. Like I think at that particular moment, you're going,

[00:29:08] why didn't he use his laser sights? But by the end of the episode, Vision can't even stand. He has to be helped away from the building by Tommy. He doesn't even get out of there. That's true as well. So I think he's really down on power until Jarvis sacrifices himself. So I don't think he's able to use any of his abilities at that point. He does push Paladin away using the last of his power, I think. But yeah, like I can see it. I think more of the reason why he didn't explode with his eyes is because he's quite a major character.

[00:29:37] We need to know what happens in the storyline. I think that's more of the reason and it's more of the writer's room than a real reason. But I think we do see him being very severely powered down by the end of the episode. So it's probably that. Absolutely. And I, like yourself, love the pigeon and email joke. And I think you're right. Yes, there's definitely something a little bit more there in Paladin as well than we are being given at this stage in the first two episodes. Yeah, definitely. Thanks so much for your feedback, Paolo.

[00:30:06] Yeah, thanks, Paolo. And for our final piece of feedback, John, do you want to read Dr. Bob's feedback? On episode one, Dr. Bob says, well, that's got me right back into the Westview spirit. Take a solid recap of the vision story, signpost the ship of Theseus consideration as a thread we might be following, drop in the early murder of a perfectly pleasant innocent, then season with some on-point cunk, and as far as I can remember, outing Jarvis,

[00:30:34] and leave us with an inappropriately named Paladin holding Tommy against his will, and you've done more in one episode than some series managed in three. Top class stars. On episode two, Dr. Bob says, the ship thing didn't take too long to pay off, did it? Plot is zipping along at quite the pace. Intrigued to see how Tommy grows into his speedster powers,

[00:31:01] and if we learn more about the delusional Paladin and his family tree. Do we think he'll own an aged American bulldog somewhere? There's a whiff of Billy Butcher about him. While I'm looking forward to episode three, not quite the drive as there was at the end of the first, in keeping with an ancient Volvo estate, perhaps. Yeah, there wasn't quite as much of a drive in one of those cars either.

[00:31:29] I guess that would be an expensive ride in the ancient Volvo estate these days. Probably, yeah. Yes, quite the collectors. Mm-hmm. Well, I hope episode three does sort of grab you back into this third sort of new reality that is vision, but I think, yeah, it is zipping along, and I quite like how it's done it, actually. I think you're right.

[00:31:59] I think it's managed to do a lot in one episode but not feel like it has done. You know, I think some writers or some sort of storyboarding could have had this sort of play out in flashback over the course of the series, the season, or it could have taken them just three episodes to do and really sort of dragged it down. But I think this impetus is really good.

[00:32:29] Again, I think a lot of that is down to Paul Bethany and James Spader in terms of how they've been written, how they can bring so much to bear on this. A bit like the heavy workings of the philosophical question of the ship of Theseus and how that is dealt with by Ultron here and how it's reworked by Terry Metallus. I think it's superb.

[00:32:58] So I think that was really, really good. Yeah, I can see what you mean about there being an American bulldog somewhere for Paladin, for sure. And you're right. They've got a whiff of Billy Butcher for the boys. I heard over the Empire podcast they referred to Todd Stasherick's Paladin as T-Moo version of Jeffrey Dean Morgan when Jeffrey Dean Morgan isn't free. So he's reminding people of someone else. But I do like Todd Stasherick. Yeah, me too.

[00:33:28] And some good stuff before. Yeah, me too. And yes, hopefully his speedster powers will progress because as I say, I think him escaping from the prison bus was very funny. I think he could have taken him out. Pretty easily, yes. Absolutely. I'm not sure whether they outed Jarvis though, Dr. Bob. I think they were just... I think Spader's Ultron was just kind of criticizing him

[00:33:56] about the type of references that he used and said he'd probably be more likely to be more of an Oscar Wilde wouldn't that suit him a little better. So I don't know whether that was specifically an outing of Jarvis or whether he was just referencing the fact that he's more of an old-timey wit than Ultron is. Yeah. Maybe. That's all it was. More of an analogue wit than a digital wit. Yes, I agree. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, great stuff. Thanks, Dr. Bob, for your feedback.

[00:34:24] Always great to get your thoughts in on these episodes. Also, as well, just coming back to, I think, mathematicians around the trilogy element. I think just something I forgot to mention, for me at least, on a personal note, is I think, you know, as Coffee and Vodka has talked about, you know, they also have this thematic element around trauma, disillusionment, and self-discovery

[00:34:55] for these different points of view. But I also think it's the separate reality and how that's created. It's the mind, which I really like. You know, WandaVision through her trauma creating this reality where it was, you know, apple pie perfect. Again, embedded, trying to distinguish between the real, the unreal. Similarly with Agatha all along going down the witch's road.

[00:35:23] And yes, the witch's were real, but also was the witch's road just in the minds of these people. And equally here then, Vision creating this architecture, this safe space with all the other previous AIs, popping in and out of reality, that this synthetic is able to see suddenly Ultron appear

[00:35:50] outside of the hospital. Yeah. You know, all this kind of stuff. I love that element. And I think that also connects them up here as well really, really nicely. So it's just something to add on to what I said on mathematicians' feedback. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thanks so much everybody for your feedback in for the first two episodes of Vision Quest. Keep sending them in to us. You can email us in to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com

[00:36:19] or pop on over to our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries or over on our Discord. Details of which are in the show notes where we have spoiler posts for each of the episodes as they come out. We will be back with episode three, Reboot. And episode four, Malware, later on this week after they've aired on Disney+. Looking forward to chatting about those ones. John, before we close out, do you want to give out our pub quiz questions for the first two episodes again? Just in case you didn't miss them. Definitely. Yes. So fellow defenders, fellow quizzers,

[00:36:49] the old selkie pub quiz. Episode one's question is, what electrical store is Vision hiding out in? Mm-hmm. And for episode two, Theseus, the question is, what wing of St. Mabern's psychiatric hospital is Thomas Shepard locked in by Paladin? Fantastic. Those two questions of eight, they're available, and each question will be available after each episode. Over on our website, at the Vision Quest quiz,

[00:37:19] it'll be up there on tvpodcastindustries.com, so you can find them up there. At the end of the season, get your correct answers into the quiz to us, and you could be in with a chance of getting your hands on some Vision Quest goodies. Absolutely. We just got our Vision Quest goodies delivered this week, didn't we? Mm-hmm. We certainly did. Yeah, we have our first Funko Pops from Vision Quest of Ultron and of Vision himself, so they could be winging their way out to the champion of our pub quiz. Yes, champion of champions. Mm-hmm.

[00:37:49] So thank you so much, fellow defenders, for joining us for this feedback special for episodes one and two of Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries until we're back for episodes three and four. Of course, keep watching, keep listening, and keep defending. Bye. Bye. Bye.