VisionQuest Episodes 3 and 4 Review

[00:00:00] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're talking about VisionQuest. Episode 3, Reboot and Episode 4, Malware.

[00:00:44] Work? Excellent news. I've achieved a state of not quite dying yet.

[00:01:23] What's up you gorgeous AIs and SIs? Yes, this is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're talking about VisionQuest, Episode 3, Reboot and Episode 4, Malware. I am Chris and I would say I'm not super intelligent but I'm definitely advanced. I love it. I am your other host, Derek. Just the two of us for this week's episodes.

[00:01:50] Yes, yes. Poor old John was stricken by a computer virus and is suffering malware as we speak. Hopefully it's not a mildly fatal injury that he's got there. No, he's just done a night out and after the entire week of celebrating my 50th birthday, he needs some time away with other people, I think.

[00:02:16] Just, I know that. You've turned 50, he's still 40 something. He's 49. He's 48. No, he's 48. He's 49 this weekend. Oh, that's it. Damn. I was a week ahead of myself. Two years older than I'm out now, Chris. I know. It's so old. But that's the thing. You're so old. So he can go out on a bender again. Exactly. That's why you have to stay home and podcast with me. Mm-hmm. All about great TV though, so I don't mind too much.

[00:02:45] I don't mind too much. Now, are you artificial intelligence or are you super intelligent? There is nothing artificial about me, Chris. There you go. You're 100%. All supreme over here. Yeah. Yes. But we're not here to talk about whether we're advanced or into artificial or super. No, we're here to talk about Vision Quest. Yes. Episode 3 and Episode 4, which came out this week on Disney+.

[00:03:12] Really, really good. And I do want to get into it because we are doing these episodes back to back. And next week again, we'll have Episode 5 and 6 being released on Wednesday. And then they drop 7 the following Wednesday and the finale 8 the following. So definitely keeping this 2-2-2-1-1 and giving us a lot to discuss.

[00:03:38] And if you haven't done it yet, make sure you head on over to tvpodcastindustries.com where you can subscribe on any Wiccan or Android loving podcast player. You can head on over to Spotify and leave us a review and rate and all those good things. But most importantly, we want your feedback. So you can leave us a voicemail over on tvpodcastindustries.com or you can send us an email to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com.

[00:04:07] Absolutely. That's the same place you can send your entries in for our Vision Quest pub quiz. The next two questions will be coming up for that at the end of this episode. And at the end of the season when you have all eight questions, send the correct answers to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. And you can be able to get your hands on some Vision Quest goodies. We just got our hands on some Vision Quest Funko Pops already, Chris. We've got one of Vision and one of Ultron. They're really interesting.

[00:04:32] It's like half the avatar and half of the original Android on either side of the Funko Pops. It's completely different from most of the Funko Pops I've seen. It's quite cool. Oh, I like that. That's definitely... I'm going to have to get a... I was going to say, I have to get a peek of the Vision of the Vision. Yes. It's downstairs. I can't go and get it right now. Ah, it's fine. Because we're podcasting. Yes. But I have. It's fine. But anyway, we are here to talk about it. We're here to discuss it.

[00:05:01] We're here to get into the philosophy behind the AIs. So, Derek, do you want to tell us who gave us what, where, when, and how with the episode details for these two episodes? Yeah. The show was created for TV by Terry Matalas, former showrunner of Star Trek Picard, as we mentioned before. Executive and producers for this show are Kevin Feige, Louis Despacito, Brad Winterbaum, Mary Lavinus, Terry Matalas himself, Jack Schaefer, and Christopher J. Byrne.

[00:05:31] Episode 3 was written by Cindy Appel, who wrote five episodes of Star Trek Picard, including three on Season 2 and two on Season 3 as well. And Episode 4 was written by Michael Taylor, mostly known as a sci-fi writer who started out in Star Trek Deep Space Nine and Voyager before moving on to do many episodes of Battlestar Galactica, Caprica, and Into the Badlands. He's a producer of the show as well. So nice to have him on board for Episode 4. The episodes are both directed by Ganja Monteiro, who's directed episodes of Pluribus, The

[00:06:01] Witcher, and Monarch Legacy of Monsters, but also directed three episodes of Agatha all along, including Episode 6, 8, and the finale Episode 9 as well. So, Ganja making a massive stamp on Agatha all along. Yes. Yes. Making a massive stamp on this trilogy? Quadrilogy of shows? I know right now it's a trilogy. It's a trilogy. Do you think, with the ratings we make, they may extend it out? I would hope so.

[00:06:32] When we get to the end, we'll find out whether there's a story there to extend it into, but they have been advertising it as the end of the trilogy. And Disney does love its trilogies, remember? So, yeah. Although there are now, what, five Toy Story movies? And how many avatars? I think that's ending with four, though, after the box office for the last one. Oh, poor Cameron. He can go cry in his bed full of money. Yes.

[00:07:01] I was wondering if a choice of words, the very rich Cameron, I think you'll find. But Chris, do you want to tell us what they gave us with the synopsis for Episode 3 and Episode 4 of Vision Quest, Episode 3, reboot first? Sure. Vision and Tommy go on the run after their escape from the Paladin's attack. The adamantium bullets used on Vision begin to shut down his body until he uses battery acid to halt his permanent death.

[00:07:27] Inside his neural network, the team of Friday, you, Dummy and Edith realise they need to do a full reboot to fully fix Vision. Meanwhile, Ultron discovers that a serial killer called Butcherbird is leaving X-Dwings at the crime scene of their victims. When Paladin accidentally tracks the killer down, he reveals it's an android on a murder mission. After he escapes, Paladin's client cancels their contract with him.

[00:07:54] When hiding out in a hotel, Vision convinces Tommy to overcome his fear of water and uses speed powers to restart Vision's broken body. But the reboot attracts the robot's attention and the Butcherbird begins attacking Vision's mind space. I couldn't resist putting in reboot attracts the robot. I know she's not really a robot, but anyway. On to Episode 4, Chris Malware. Sure.

[00:08:20] The Butcherbird killer possesses Vision and threatens to harm Tommy if he interferes in her plan. But Edith manages to expel the invading program from his mainframe. Vision, Tommy and the AIs investigate the killer and discover that her victims were all board members of Mark Ridge Biotech, whose founders developed a first stable synthetic consciousness, the precursor to their artificial intelligence.

[00:08:46] The Butcherbird killer has collected biomarkers from her victims, including blood, fingerprints and even an eyeball. The only surviving founder of the company is Katerina Wells. With Lisa's help, Vision and Tommy infiltrate a gala hosted by Katerina Wells, where Vision tells Tommy about the ancient prototype J.I.M. or Jim, an unstable synthetic man whose emotion caused him to combust.

[00:09:13] When Tommy realizes Vision has kept Ultron's existence secret, he storms away from the party. The Butcherbird killer attacks the gala and reveals herself as Jocasta, a synthesoid based on Mark Ridge co-founder Dr. Josephine Jo Carrington. Unable to defeat her, Vision allows Ultron to take control, but Ultron manipulates Jocasta

[00:09:37] into killing Katerina Wells, preventing the synthesoid from obtaining the final biomarker. Ultron then betrays Vision and locks him and the other AIs out of their system, and leaves the gala with Tommy in tow. Shock horror. Ultron, the bad guy, betrays the good guys. Ultron betraying people? I thought he changed. I thought he changed. Yes. Leopard can't shave his spots. It changes spots.

[00:10:07] And a leopard can't shave its spots either. He can't do that either. Shush, shush, shush, shush, shush. There's a lot of sh's and sh's sounds in this film. Yes, yes. It's all the synthozoids that are in there, isn't it? Yeah. Synthozoids. Yes, Manipaner. Synthozoids. Scottish synthozoids. Exactly. Exactly. Let us get in and chat all about our favorite moments from the episode. They are code lines. We'll start out with code line one.

[00:10:35] Let's talk about the Butcher Bird Killer to begin with, as this is kind of a central bit of both of the episodes, really. Yes. The Butcher Bird Killer. I kind of gave a little hint to this last week that on the screen that Ultron is watching already in the first two episodes, there were some indications of a serial killer on the loose.

[00:11:00] And also on that newspaper that Vision had in his hands, there's an investigation into the Butcher Bird Killer. So they were planting those seeds for us as viewers that something would be happening with this killer. So I like that it's Ultron that realizes something weird is going on, that there's been murders happening out in the open. And he's the one that realizes, oh, hang on a second, this might be connected to the thing that's going on in the real world. We may need to have a look at this. Yeah.

[00:11:28] I like that because it shows again once more how Ultron has been circumventing, well, now the late Jarvis, his programming, his cybersecurity. Because we see that Ultron has got an email out, literally a carrier pigeon. And then now he's been getting feeds in, like TV feeds, live internet streaming feeds, whatever you want to call it.

[00:11:58] Looking like a majority of them being news streams, newscasts, things like that. But it is interesting to see. I like the Butcher Bird Killer motif. I think it's very striking. Visually, it's striking. It feels almost like it should be in a Gotham show.

[00:12:22] It's like the Killer Hush or something like that, or one of the other very notorious Batman rogues, where you'll see they pose the body in such grotesque and gruesome. And it's unique to see it in such a synthetic show. And I mean synthetic in the best way. It's a show about robots and AIs and everything. I know I get it. It's family and all those other bits.

[00:12:51] But it is, you would not expect to see kind of, I was not expecting, I think I should say that one. I wasn't expecting to see dead bodies to that pose motif. Yeah. Yeah. Like we commented on the first couple of episodes that the show is skewing a bit older. And they're, you know, we've had people shot in the head.

[00:13:12] You know, there's people that consider once these shows went to Disney Plus, we would only be seeing every show and every character aimed towards 12 year olds. You know, I think we can be pretty safe in saying that some of the Disney shows are skewing to an older age group. And this is skewing towards people that five, six years ago watched WandaVision and they're now over 18. You know, they may have watched WandaVision when they were 12 and now they're going 18 or now they're going into their 20s.

[00:13:41] So their tastes will have changed and they will have grown since back then. So it makes lots of sense that you'd have this character on a much more brutal show like this and having murders out there and investigation going on. You know, again, I love that each of these episodes has a very distinct vision. Once again, it's not as distinct as WandaVision going through sitcoms or Agatha all along going through musicals.

[00:14:08] But each of these episodes has a different type of investigation going on, a different view on it. So having this murder mystery at the centre of these two episodes was a really interesting idea. Building on that, because I think you hit a nail on the head for me, which is each of the episodes feel very unique. It almost feels like Terry Metallis and some of the other directors looked at UK crime shows and UK BBC shows and ITV shows.

[00:14:38] Because I know it was filmed there. Well, a majority of the locations are set in the UK. I can't confirm how much of it was filmed in the UK. But you're right. You could see this as one of the crime shows you would see on Channel 4. Like a slightly older one.

[00:14:59] Whereas when they're in the hotel and the pool and the motel that they stay at, you could see that on the bill, which is like a cop show kind of beat force. That's more of the UK's CSI. It's more standard procedural. It's more procedural on every week for about 40 years. Exactly. And it hasn't changed. It is just drama. But it's an interesting idea that they're merging those two styles as well.

[00:15:29] Or seeing the prestige drama and the standard beat cops both being merged into episodes. That's quite cool. And yeah, up until the moment where we see the red eyes underneath the hood of the butcher bird, it is a really brutal idea. It's something like it would come from Hannibal. It wouldn't be out of place there. Someone that murders their victims and leaves behind these etched wings like an angel below the body of each of the ones that it kills.

[00:15:57] That's quite an interesting calling card, I suppose, for this killer. It is. And like I said, the fact that we know it's Jocasta or becomes Jocasta, I think. I was wondering how this would play out. But I was thinking for a few minutes, is this going to be some – I don't know.

[00:16:26] I was thinking for a few minutes, was this going to be a Wanda? Right. Right. Essentially just – she's back from the dead. And she's going after people who – those people brought back vision. Right. Like that was the people from S.W.O.R.D. And like she's killing them all off. Like I was – like I was trying to piece a lot of the bits together.

[00:16:50] The fact that it is that kind of red haze and red eyes, I was like, oh, is it evil Wanda from one of the like alternate universes? And then when you do see it is – the butcher bird killer is Jocasta and isn't different in many ways and looks the way she looks, which is fantastic, which we can get to later. Yeah. Just very cool. It is.

[00:17:20] It is. Yeah. And also kind of the other element of what she's doing where she's taking these biomarkers, taking the fingerprints off of one of the victims, taking the eyeball out of another one and taking the blood out of a third. Like these are all pretty brutal things that are happening and they're being described on screen. And they're all very important. So you won't miss them.

[00:17:43] You won't be sitting down with your six-year-old and the six-year-old might miss that someone's eye has been pulled out of their head in an episode. So, yeah, really like this concept of the background. And, yeah, I was trying to put peace together. Who could it possibly be? Is it an AI gone – Rogue. – off its programming? Have they turned on their human captors? Is it – you know, a Terminator has been created out of somebody that we don't know yet, you know?

[00:18:12] But, yeah, very, very interesting concept. Really like the idea of the butcher bird killer. Yeah. Should we move on to codeline number two? Absolutely. So codeline number two, death and reboot. When we left young Vision at the end of episode two, he was – yeah, seemed to be a lot more damaged than we thought.

[00:18:34] In fact, we got an email in on our feedback episode that was asking the question as to why didn't Vision just stand up and use his laser beam to take out Paladin. Well, we find out quite quickly at the start of this episode that those bullets, those Alamantium bullets that were tearing through the body of Vision pretty much almost kill him. That's how powerful they are. He's just about holding it together. Even with the sacrifice of Jarvis, he's down to – yeah.

[00:19:02] He's got 26 seconds left to live before he pours that battery acid onto his wound to almost suture it up in a way. You know, it's like he's put his hand into a fire to cauterize the wound. Yeah. That's the way I saw it, yeah. By pouring this battery acid onto himself and giving himself a little bit more time while the AI start to work on their – work on a potential plan to save him. And it is interesting because he is – the way he is Synthozoid.

[00:19:31] You're like, oh, okay, does he need – even when he's going to get the fix, like he's going to need some form of proper repair. Because he is – chunks are taken out of him by these shotgun bullets of Alamantium. Like, it does look like he's taking and giving a lot of damage out. Yeah. So this is very much love, death, and robots. There you go. Slightly better than death and reboot. But, you know, it's okay.

[00:20:00] Love death and reboots, maybe? Oh, yeah, there you go. Love death and reboots. Together we will get there with our code lines. We will. But this does lead to some fun interactions as, like you said, he had not much time left, so he used the battery acid. And he gets to – they get to the hotel.

[00:20:17] And you do have that fun moment about – even through the kind of pain through all the bits, we have Vision to a degree and Ultron in the background trying to almost parent Tommy. Absolutely. Like, giving a – no, no, no. You're not going to kind of take that cash. Because when he sneezes, it sets off all the machines, including the ATM. I love it.

[00:20:48] You know, I have to say, Paul Bettany is at his best in this episode. It reminded me of his episode of WandaVision where he eats the chewing gilman and that throws off his abilities. He sets off a weirdness to his control of himself. So, this time, he's sneezing and it's setting off all the lights around him and then, yeah, sets off the ATM. I thought Tommy was very quick to go, I'll just arrange it with the boss. You pick up the money, basically.

[00:21:16] It's like we're – I'm not going to be the one to steal the money. You can do that. But, so, you're also responsible for the scam that we're pulling effectively. And he relents because, as Vision says, I'm broken all kinds of ways, which is another great little line from Paul Bettany. Really enjoy these moments in the car as well with Ultron in the back.

[00:21:38] You know, you mentioned while Vision's trying to parent him about his terrible driving, you see Ultron in the back holding a mug that says Father of the Year. And he goes, I guess I'll just keep this mug myself, saying he's a much better father than Vision is. Yeah, I have to say this episode was the funniest episode of the series. There was lots of great humor. I'm watching it multiple times, catching all those little jokes that they're telling. I just thought it was really, really good. Paul Bettany is particularly good in these moments.

[00:22:08] I don't know why he hasn't done as many comedies as you'd expect from him, you know, all the way back to A Knight's Tale, which is kind of his big breakout role. That was, wasn't it? Yeah, he's always been really involved in comedy. And then he got into the MCU and it's pretty much been serious stuff since then, other than bits in WandaVision and now bits in Vision Quest, you know? So for me, the humor is James Spader. It is the pure Boston Eagle dry humor. And it's just the delivery. He's great.

[00:22:38] The delivery of, like you said, those, well, I'll just keep this then. Or like, he was like, oh, there's a good kid. Like, just very sarcastic deadpan delivery to a degree. Absolutely. With just a mirth of, like, contempt. Yeah. And I can't take anything away from James Spader. I wouldn't want to. He's brilliant here as he was in Age of Ultron, as he was in the first two episodes.

[00:23:06] But it's Paul Bettany's understated version of humor that's really coming through in these two episodes. I think he's really, really strong. He's holding his own. He's just not as showy as James Spader is. Funnily enough, there's a great interview with James Spader this week. When asked why he hasn't come back as Ultron before, he basically said, I had a little break in filming of The Blacklist. First, I did my time on Age of Ultron, and then I worked on that show for 10 years.

[00:23:35] And I've just finished working on that show, and now I'm back as Ultron. So really, I haven't had any break to do Ultron in the past. He was talking about the fact that they wanted him back for What If? And for Marvel Zombies, I think, even had Ultron in there, and he couldn't fit it into his schedule. He just works on one project at a time. So there you go. And The Blacklist kept going. 10 years, man. 10 years. That was a 22-episode-a-season show as well. So yeah, look, people like that stuff. The fact that it went for 10 years, I remember watching the first season. I was like, oh, this is good.

[00:24:05] Yeah, it was fun. And I'm like, oh, I missed nine more seasons in years of it. Exactly. But I know the show has massive fans as well. And understandably, James Spader is fantastic. I'd watch him. I'd watch him more. Yes, we will watch him. We will see much more of him.

[00:24:21] But let's move from the outside inwards into the actual AIs, the other kind of Friday, you, dummy, and Edith inside the neural network of vision as part of this reboot. Yeah, I love that the first thing that's going through Friday's head is, well, when we had this issue 10 minutes ago, Jarvis sacrificed himself. Do I have to sacrifice myself now?

[00:24:46] It's just going to go through each of the AIs, and each one is just going to sacrifice himself to give vision a tiny bit more power. And Edith comes into the rescue and kind of says, no, we set it as a task, and we work through the task. And I love that the result they get to is turn us off and on again, and it will sort of take, because that is what you need to do when everything's crashing around you on the computer. Try turning it off and on again, and it may resolve the issue. But I love that they have to work through it as a problem, and that's the result they get to.

[00:25:15] Because, again, great storytelling gets to a logical conclusion. Right, we need to turn everything off, do a full reboot and a reset, and we'll be fine. That's great. Except they are living inside a synthesoid who has a huge internal combustion battery. So, hmm, how are they going to do this one? Oh, exactly. Well, then they literally have to kill him.

[00:25:45] The full switch is fantastic. But he does need to then get, the reboot requires some help from his little son, which we'll save for a later point. One point I did want to discover is that Edith is a lot more emotional. We've talked about the AI and how they are unique.

[00:26:11] Like, they're all different versions and different kind of styles and different kind of tweak kind of pieces. But it is interesting to see them have such emotion. And then seeing the discovery of Edith and Friday on who their real-life counterparts were and how they were built based on the best and kind of ideas of people in the background.

[00:26:38] Of be it Tony Stark's life or Anthony Stark's life or such and such. Yeah, I really like this. I thought this was a really nice touch, you know, just keeping Tony Stark still alive in the story of Vision, I think is really important. You know, we have that moment in the car when Vision is dying effectively and Tommy's asking, can anybody help fix you? Can we take you to hospital? And he's going, well, hospital? I don't have any idea how to fix me.

[00:27:07] The only people that do are Banner and Stark and one's dead and the other one is unavailable right now, effectively. So there's that kind of piece of it. And then we hear about the other versions of Friday and of Edith. The other version of Friday is his former carer. So that's where he got the look of her.

[00:27:32] We know Jarvis because Jarvis used to be Howard Stark's butler, effectively, back in Agent Carter days. That's why he looks like James Darcy, which I thought was a great touch as well. And Edith was a test pilot for all around Stark Industries. So someone that Tony would have known really, really well. And he admired her and gave her a personality to match, which I just think is really good.

[00:27:56] And again, a great moment with Edith when she realizes what her past self was like. Yeah. And it almost takes a bit of that personality on board and wonders why she would be saddled with this person who'd had an awful life in her mind because she'd lost her husband in an accident.

[00:28:16] And interestingly, it's Ultron that talks to her about it and says, no, he wanted to respect the person that he loved so much and transferred her image and her personality into you to keep her memory alive, effectively. Which I just thought was really heartfelt. And again, seeing these AIs develop their own personalities continually as they live inside the mind of vision is really interesting. Yeah.

[00:28:42] Because prior they weren't inside a supercomputer, which is interesting to think about because I do wonder which of these characters will live on past episode eight. So because kind of we know Edith was like she was housed in the glasses from Tony. We know Friday was in some of the suits.

[00:29:12] So again, it's just that kind of like, well, is you and dummy still sitting somewhere in one of the Stark kind of vaults somewhere? Or are they now that they're all in the vision? Yeah. Will they, and we've seen another synthesoid, do we get by the end of this a family? Like, do we get real world bodies? Yeah. Kind of thing.

[00:29:41] And it'd be interesting to see how much or what they do with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be fun. Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is one of the strengths of the show is showing each of these AIs growing. You get the feeling at the beginning of the series that every single one of them had their job to do.

[00:29:58] When Vision returned from working in the pub, he downloaded at the end of the day and got his input from each of the various AIs that were in there, telling him how to live his life and how the day went and just effectively just being a constant loop. But now we see each of them as growing. You know, Chris, you mentioned last week that you would expect that you'd see dummy talking and that it would be actually a great intelligence that was never seen before. Or in Tony Stark's hands, dummy was literally a robot that picked things up and annoyed Tony Stark.

[00:30:28] So he gave him the name dummy inside Vision. He's now able to say poetry at a funeral, you know, a very massive growth for a character. So seeing all of these characters grow really do show that each of them are developing inside of Vision in a way they never would under the guise of Tony Stark who was using them for a very specific purpose, you know.

[00:30:49] So I really liked that and got that moment with Friday recounting the death of Tony Stark and how all of the heroes around her saw what happened and she lost half of our world in that day, you know, because she lost Tony. It was really, really well done. So many great moments in these two episodes with the characters. Definitely.

[00:31:11] But we do get the reboot and actually let's talk about the reboot and combine it with our next point, the next code line, because it is connected and it takes place in a pool. So our next code line is the very essence of speed. Yes. So let's talk about Tommy or Thomas. Thomas. And Tommy. And Tommy. Yeah.

[00:31:41] The two of them. We get a lot of, we get the history here. We get the full background of what is going on, how Tommy came to be. We get the pool. Like, this is what I would consider the flashback episode. Like, but it's caught in a way that isn't your standard. Okay. Well, here's like a five minute scene of a boy called Thomas and he drowns thing.

[00:32:11] So you do get the full recount of Thomas and his time in foster care and his parents or the lack thereof. And being in group homes with these other boys who bullied him and then he gets drowned in the pool, but he didn't drown in the pool. But at that point, someone came back, but it wasn't just him. There was another person. There was a Tommy.

[00:32:41] And Tommy is there as much as Thomas is there. And it's interesting because, again, I keep saying it's interesting today, but it is because it's the two souls. There are two souls inhabiting this body. We talked about this last week, but it becomes more in show this week in this episode in particular because it's one of the, he feels like he can't embrace his powers.

[00:33:10] It's not a gift. It's a very mutant-esque kind of analogy where it's like, it's not a gift. It's a curse because his gift of speed and electricity is actually a curse that came with the pool, the drowning and the invasion that is Tommy. Yeah.

[00:33:34] It's really interesting that they added something else to the kind of mythos here, which is why this is the title of the code line. And the character of Tommy Maximoff in the comic books, his superhero name is Speed. And we hear Vision say to him, you are the very essence of Speed, giving him that title for the first time, giving him his superhero name. But interestingly, he says, because you can vibrate your molecules so fast, that's why you're able to phase through things. So he's doing what Vision does. Vision is the one that phases. That's one of his powers.

[00:34:02] He's able to phase and people can't hit him with a punch. We've seen that multiple times. He can phase and things will pass through him. In this episode, we see Tommy, which I absolutely love, trying to get a can of iron brew. And he's trying so hard that his hand goes through glass and he's got his hand on the iron brew, but he won't take it out because he really wants that can. It's very good Scottish representation there. They'll break through any wall to get to get iron brew. But I do really like that.

[00:34:32] But that's the kind of manifestation of his powers. And it's not dealt with like you saw on The Flash, let's say, the DC superhero, where it's part of him using the speed force allows him to pass through things. This is more connected to Vision's powers than I kind of had suspected in the past. I was saying that he was a speedster because, well, his uncle was and it must have passed down through his uncle Pietro being Quicksilver.

[00:34:58] But actually, it makes a lot more sense that his powers aren't exactly like that. His powers are closer in style to the Vision's powers. So that's quite cool. And yeah, that discussion that the two of them have where Vision is trying to get him on side to reboot him. And he's constantly going into Tommy in the room and running through these simulations of their conversations so that he can try and encourage Tommy to help him out.

[00:35:25] Like, it's really good because you don't realize what's actually happening. You think they're having a conversation and Tommy's storming out at the end of the conversation. But actually, he's running through multiple simulations over and over again and then realizes that actually the reason why it's never working in any of the simulations is because he doesn't know Tommy well enough. So he doesn't know what his reaction is really going to be to any of these conversations. Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. Really cool.

[00:35:50] The visual of that is fantastic, where you had multiple visions and multiple just sitting there, kind of just saying something and then trying another approach and then it not working. So he sits in a certain place, another approach and does a different thing. So it's so, but each was resulting in Tommy storming off. Exactly, exactly.

[00:36:18] Because that's the outcome that he feels is always going to happen with Tommy because he doesn't know well enough. I love the idea. I also love that they had Small Wonder, a little known American sitcom from the 80s, playing in the background. Again, it's so weird. That's a show that I remember watching when I was a kid, but I don't think it ever has been repeated since the mid-80s when it was on television. So I can't imagine this kid would be watching Small Wonder on TV in a hotel in the middle of England.

[00:36:48] He does call out that he loves the oldies. Yes. He says he loves the oldies, which we all know is code for what happened in Westview. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's likely that Vision's putting it on the TV for him because that's what his mom would have done. That's the kind of way that you see that. I also want to point out something here that I think was quite interesting.

[00:37:15] Just a little connection to Avengers Endgame that I don't know whether you would have caught it. Obviously, Vision was murdered by Thanos when he needed to get the stone that was in Vision's head. So he didn't get to the end of Endgame. One of the big things about the end of Endgame is that Doctor Strange has been running through 14 million combinations to find the one that will allow the Avengers to win and beat Thanos. Yeah.

[00:37:41] And I love here that Vision calls out, I ran through a quintillion simulations to find out the best way to deal with you. So if Vision had survived to the end of Infinity War, he probably would have done all the same calculations that Strange had done. I just think it's interesting that you can compare the two of them, one using the time stone and the other one using their enhanced brain power. And both of them would have come to the same conclusion. What's the path that we would have gone to to beat Thanos?

[00:38:10] And again, Vision's someone that would have the same cold look at the world that Doctor Strange has. Sacrifice everybody and we can reboot it in the future is probably a conclusion that Ultron would have come to as well. So I just like that there's a little connection between the two ideas there. Yeah, no, it's so fascinating to see how well they are building on this character. We've known Vision for one or two films.

[00:38:36] We get even more of him in Vision Quest where we hear about grief and all the other bits. And he has become, especially with the Ship of Theseus kind of thought experiment, he's become this philosopher, this soul, this kind of arty soul. Like I use soul as kind of the artistic version of it.

[00:39:06] Yeah, absolutely. And seeing Paul Bettany here portray that cold calculating white vision and being able to deliver these points. And then, again, we speak about the other AIs in our last code point. In our last kind of section, we were talking about how the AIs are growing.

[00:39:26] Here we see Vision growing with the vision growing, the white vision growing, because he manages to understand and convince Tommy to go in the pool to help him to use his powers to shock him back. And you get the reboot moment where Edith pulls the plug along with Friday. You get Vision, he dies, and Tommy's in the water.

[00:39:53] And then you get that very Hollywood-esque, no, we're not letting you go, zoom, zoom, zoom. But this time he's using his vibrating hand. Exactly. And it is very cinematic. It is very Hollywood. Yeah. It's really cool. And, you know, this is how Vision was brought to life to begin with, or used as hammer me on there to restart his heart with lightning.

[00:40:22] And here we have Tommy doing something similar with his speed force or his speedster abilities. So, yeah, so it was going to work. It was destined to work, because that's how he was brought to life to begin with, which is, again, another great circular moment. But you're right. You know, this is the thing about this show. It was always going to be a very in-depth, thoughtful show as opposed to a massive action show. That's what we know of the character of Vision. Yeah, there's action in here, of course.

[00:40:49] But, you know, it's amazing that we've gotten through almost a full episode without mentioning Paladin, who's bringing loads of the action in these episodes. But it's fine. There'll be more Paladin in the future. The story itself is all about the Butcherbird killer and all about Vision and Tommy and the AI in both of these episodes, really. So we don't actually have a point on Paladin. We can talk about it, of course, though. But, yeah, really love this.

[00:41:18] Really love that we have Speed now as the superhero and a proper dad telling him he does exist, even though he was worried that he didn't properly exist. Love it. Should we move on to our fourth, and not final, but very celebratory, codeline? Absolutely. Yeah, so kind of mixing in the third and fourth episodes, we are moving on to the gala in our codeline number four.

[00:41:46] That reboot moment that we had at the end of episode three, where all the lights in the city of London went out when Vision is rebooted, has alerted Jocasta to his presence. And Jocasta suddenly appears inside the mind of Vision, or the Butcherbird, as she's still known at this moment.

[00:42:05] And really love how that turns into the next episode, where we have all of his files being accessed by the Butcherbird inside his mind. And he's floating in the air, his eyes bright red. You have Dummy and you both having the bright red eyes because Butcherbird is inside. Really, I think that's cool.

[00:42:27] I love this, partially because when we had seen this in the trailers, and I'm the guy that watches all the nerds like Rockstar, New Rockstars and IGN and people who do the breakdowns. Everyone's like, oh, that guy's floating. It's Wanda. That's the C'thon and the Darkhold power and all that. I was like, nope, that's just a representation of a hack within Vision's mind.

[00:42:57] So I enjoyed that. It is horror-esque, though. It is so well done. It's like suddenly they're all glowing and they're being invaded. Yeah. And I didn't expect that the horror that they'd be drawing from was going to be The Exorcist, or maybe Repossessed, because it's a bit more comedy than that.

[00:43:18] As we see Edith in the priest's uniform calling on the power of code, compelling the demon to be pushed out from inside Vision's body. And it works as well, which I think is even funnier. But yeah, these are all great fun moments in the episode as we see the threat coming from the Butcherbird that she will kill or hurt Tommy if Vision doesn't play ball.

[00:43:45] Vision gets in the way of her plan. But yeah, pushed out of the body. Leading to a very funny line once again where they're trying to solve the problem. And you hear Edith go, no one likes a surprise rear entry. And Ultron's sitting in the corner going, do you even hear yourself anymore? Great fun. But also just something that I do want to mention, we haven't talked about it much at all, is they keep talking about S.W.O.R.D. and what's happened with S.W.O.R.D.

[00:44:15] Will we see S.W.O.R.D. being the actual villain in the background at some point later on in the season? You know, we again haven't got a specific point about Paladin, but one of the things that happens here with Paladin is he gets another call from the client. And this time he's dropped completely. The contract has been cancelled for Paladin. Could that be S.W.O.R.D. that's got the contract in? Are they hiding themselves behind this voice box?

[00:44:43] Will it tie all the way back to the villain back in WandaVision? Is he now his own bad guy? Has he become his own villain? Is he now a supervillain? A warmonger or – and he's just using mercenaries. Yeah.

[00:45:03] If he went and sold Stark Tech, Sword Tech, things like that on the black market, very similar to Power Broker, he has the ability and money to pay for Paladin. And so it could be – I think in the – yeah, no, it's high in the likelihood, I think is probably the best way of saying it.

[00:45:28] But as I always like to call out, sometimes in these shows when we think they're going to zig, they zag. Yes, they do. Yes, they do. I also like how they bring Lisa back. So I like how they expel and we remove Jocasta.

[00:45:47] And you do get the detective part of the show again where we see the AIs figure out the gala and the connections to the biomarkers and all the bits. And it is very fun. It is that detective moment. It's really good, isn't it?

[00:46:09] Like just where Vision and Ultron are sent off to try and uncover inside Interpol's firewalls and break down through them. And they're being tested just like any AI is being tested. And they're also trying to put in a password. And I love Ultron going, I have one and a half million passwords that I'd like to access. You have three attempts. I think that's really fun.

[00:46:34] And I love that the password is Sir Jabba the Mutt, which is the pet's name to get access to the name of the third victim. I think that's the plan, isn't it? And they find out that all three victims worked for the same company, for Makeridge Biotech. And there's only one person left alive and one person dead.

[00:46:55] That's how they connect Dr. Joe Carrington to the killer and how they connect the gala event to Katarina Wells, who is the final target they suspect. So off they go to do another grift using Lisa and using Tommy's other abilities outside of his speed force to break into the party. This reminded me of the Avengers. And I'm not talking about the MCU Avengers.

[00:47:21] I am talking about your English 1960s, 70s Avengers show. Excellent. With Peel and Steed. And just the fun that that was that kind of grifting man from uncle style. Yeah. Where they solve a mystery and then they have to get into a swanky doo in order to confront the bad guy. Old James Bond stuff too, yeah. Yes.

[00:47:46] We just can play the James Bond video game this year and there's a couple of scenes where he has to do these kind of things. Yes. But, you know, James Bond is the iconic. I was going more the British TV style. Yes. Yes. So anyway, I really enjoyed how the grift goes. Like, again, can you speak Italian? Talk to me in high tone. Oh, no, you're shouting too much.

[00:48:39] Uh-huh. Because instantly Vision thought he was going to be the upper class guy that had the poor secretary in Tommy. And actually, it's completely reversed because Tommy knows better Italian. So for this purpose, let's say. I think Vision's Italian is impeccable, of course, because he knows it all. But I love that they staged this fight to draw attention away so that Lisa can use her suit of hands.

[00:49:09] Coat of arms? Yes, exactly. I love that. Of course she would have a coat of arms. Mm-hmm. That was the ultimate one that I actually did a bit of a schnort. Kind of. Yeah, that was good. They get into the gala and I want to call out one thing.

[00:49:31] Again, we receive our second OG synthosoid, the Human Torch, Easter egg. Yes. So in the previous episodes internally within Vision's mind, they look about the first of us. And it's just a depiction of a person on fire. Yes. Or a silhouette on fire.

[00:49:57] And we knew that to be within the Marvel Cinematic Universe. We had seen the Human Torch. Again, Jim Hammond, the first synthosoid that was part of the... The synthetic man was the title. And he was part of the Invaders and the Defenders back in the day in the early comics.

[00:50:19] We then saw the body of Jim Hammond in the first Avenger, Captain America, the very first film, at the Stark Expo. Yes. And then here we get another... Parts of... Within the gala we see parts of Jim Hammond, the Human Torch, the synthetic man.

[00:50:43] Yeah, it's pretty much the same model that was at Stark Expo in First Avenger. So there's a little piece off it. I think one of the legs is gone a bit. But we see quite a bit of the same character there. I actually recently reread the... It's the first ever issue of Marvel Comics, which came out, I think, in 1939.

[00:51:08] I read it on Marvel Unlimited, which has the first appearance of the synthetic man. And it is basically a guy that just keeps exploding into fire over and over again. And that's his power. So he goes around and is wondering whether to use it to intimidate bad guys, to get money out of them, or should he be a good guy? And that's the story. But it's quite long. It's a good 30-page comic book story. So definitely check it out.

[00:51:37] I like this. This paying homage to... The first of them all. The very first of them all. Yeah. I'm very curious. So in the Ultimate Universe, the reboot in the comic books, there is the Human Torch, and he's in it. And he survives into the future, into the present day. And I am wondering, did they bring him back?

[00:52:07] Like, I think it would just be... It would be cool. Yeah. I think just... And you could stunt cast it, or you could... And so it could be like... Not Ryan Gosling, because now he's Ghost Rider, but something like that. It's also on fire. Yeah. Who was it? Eros. They had Harry Styles. Yeah, that is. Remember? At the end of the journals. Mm-hmm. Stunt casting, just for the shits and giggles. So you could do that. What are you talking about?

[00:52:37] Yeah, of course. I so believe it. Actually, no. I actually... You might be in Secret War. You know what? But anyway, I could see them doing that, because... Or probably more going to an actor we weren't aware of. Mm-hmm.

[00:52:58] And I think that would be cool, because then again, we talked about this family motif, kind of thematic, kind of back and forth. Mm-hmm. Well, okay, if we're talking about the father, the mother, the lineage, the parental bit, well, this is the ultimate. This is the genetic seed. This is your Adam and Eve. Yeah.

[00:53:29] Or the opposite of genetic, yeah. Yeah. It's kind of the code. Synthetic. To begin with, yeah. So what's said there is that Dr. Phineas Horton created J.A.M., the synthetic man, the first of all of the AIs, but he burned way too bright, way too quickly, and died. This corporation that all of the murdered individuals are part of had the code for that.

[00:53:51] It says Dr. Josephine Carrington died in 2008, and that Stark Tech, Stark Industries bought the code, and that formed the basis of Jarvis and formed the basis of the first AIs. So I do like that kind of callback to pre-Iron Man 1, effectively, that at the time, Tony Stark was still the warmonger, was still selling arms, and was willing to buy technology to begin

[00:54:18] his process of creating AIs, which I think is really interesting. So going again, not just going back to Age of Ultron, where we saw Ultron for the first time, where we saw Vision for the first time, going back before the first Iron Man movie to say that before all of that started, somebody had created a template that Tony jumped off when he started standing on the shoulders of giants before him. So that's a really good way to change. He was definitely a...

[00:54:48] He was real. He was a genius, but he still liked to steal. Well, I wouldn't say steal. He paid for it. Yeah, he was fair. That's kind of the thing that everybody here has probably made a hell of a lot of money by selling that information onto Stark. You know, that's kind of what seems to be that they weren't doing anything with it, so they sold it on.

[00:55:11] Katarina Wells is now going back to doing good works like her former co-founder, Joe Carrington. So that's where the antagonization, I guess, between Jocasta, the killer, and the rest of the board has come from. And Katarina says to Jocasta that she's trying to live out the wishes of Joe Carrington with

[00:55:39] creating a world where there's peace in our time, which is effectively a quote that led to Ultron saying there's only peace in our time if we kill all humans, effectively. So yes, in the very DNA of all of these characters is a bit of Joe Carrington as well, which is really cool. I love that. I love when I heard Katarina saying a world where there's peace in our time, I was going, wow, where have I heard that before?

[00:56:08] That was quite a big quote from quite a big... Oh yeah, of course, it's Ultron. Yeah. So I really love how this is all tying up. We're four episodes in and now we've got the key to all of these characters. Really cool. Yeah. Speaking of Ultron, should we move into our final code line for this episode? Mm-hmm. Yes. Code line number five, our final code line. Do you want help from Ultron? Ultron?

[00:56:38] Um, we have the, uh, the battle between, uh, Vision and, uh, and Jocasta. Um, Vision has a little standoff with her to begin with and, uh, and Jocasta takes him out pretty darn quickly. Very quickly. Like she's powerful. Um, you kind of get the feeling that she's got a very similar, uh, code to Ultron. Um, she is one of the most powerful beings out there, uh, and may have learned from, um,

[00:57:07] Ultron that you don't let Vision get very close to you. You know, um, Vision and Ultron kind of talked it out, uh, back then and she's not willing to do that. So she, uh, she blows him directly across the room. Um, so. And he's still fighting with one hand tied behind his back. He's still repairing. He's still not at full power. He's still not able to do all the things. Um, but we do, it is a fun fight scene. It is. Um, but he still gets his ass whooped. Yep.

[00:57:37] Oh, there it is. And you do get that. Let me take the wheel moment from Ultron, which I found so sinister. Well, yeah. And we've been watching, uh, nicer Ultron, uh, over the last couple of episodes. We've been enjoying his quips in the back room, you know, uh, all the time and in the back, the back of the car.

[00:58:03] We've seen a lovely moment with himself and Edith where, uh, he talked about respect and talked about, uh, how much, uh, Tony Stark must have loved the person she was based on. Um, so you, you kind of go, well, maybe it is okay to, to let, uh, Ultron out. But as he said before, everything's a bit of a coin flip for him. He might destroy the entire planet. 50, 50 chance. So, uh, so yeah, he lets him in. Um, we also have that fantastic moment.

[00:58:31] I don't want to skim over this one specific moment when, uh, when Dracosta reveals herself as not being based on Joe, she is Joe Carrington. Um, she reveals her face, half Joe Carrington and half the Ultron type robot, which I thought was really interesting. So you talked about it earlier on, Chris, at the end of the series, could we have the AIs in artificial bodies? Well, Dracosta could just be setting that up. Yeah.

[00:58:57] So we could have another AI in that body by the end of the season or a suite of 25 of these AIs by the end of the season, all filled up with the AIs that are inside. Uh, vision. So yeah, that's entirely possible. So, uh, like that they, that they mentioned that, but yeah, um, Ultron takes over and does the coolest quick reverse, uh, that I, I just couldn't possibly imagine when I saw, um, that we had, um, Mary McDonnell here from, uh, Battlestar Galactica in the role of,

[00:59:26] uh, of Katerina Wells. I was thinking, oh, well, here she is. She's going to survive the rest of the season. Vision will keep her safe, uh, and away from Chocosta. So we'll know. Ultron takes over. Ultron goes, well, what's the quickest way to resolve this situation? Well, you need her to die. And, uh, if she dies, then, uh, you don't get her bio key for whatever your villainous plan is going to be. So I'll just put her in the way of your laser beam that you're trying to use to kill Vision. Grant, okay, she's done. Uh, can everybody just walk away now and we'll just go home to our homes? Yeah. Right.

[00:59:56] Finished. And so, uh, Ultron, once again, uh, going for the quickest, if not best answer, uh, which is usually leads to the death of somebody. Crazy. Crazy. It is fantastic. I did expect that Mary McDonnell would be there. I thought she was going to be actually the bad book guy. Yeah. I thought like they were setting her up to be the client as well. Mm. Yep. Yep. Because she was part of this, she had wanted Vision to build her next blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[01:00:26] Uh-huh. But no, within a split second, she is no more. Good one, Catarina. Yeah. And seeing, uh, Paul Bettany here embody Ultron. Oh. It's just spectacular. He's brilliant. It's spectacular. I know they recorded both lines and you had Paul Bettany just speaking normally and then had James Spader repeat the same lines, which is not easy by the way. No.

[01:00:56] Like lip, lip syncing to that, but just his demeanor changed. Yes. He's completely different. Yeah. And I love, I love even Jocasta calls it out. You are completely different than you were a moment ago. So she knows, uh, instantly that, uh, something is different. Um, but yeah, I love that he does a great job, uh, of impersonating, um, James Spader inside the body of Vision. It's deadly. Yeah. Really cool.

[01:01:23] But of course, that's not the last movement that Ultron does. Of course. He got the body now. So, uh, bye now, AIs. I'm going to shut down everything inside, uh, Vision's body and take control of, uh, real world Vision. Fantastic. Fantastic. And he grabs Tommy and walks away. Mm-hmm.

[01:01:44] Um, this is where I find, I do find it also like slightly hypocritical of poor old Tommy here going, oh my God, you kept secret from me that Vision, that, uh, Ultron's in there, your brain with you, uh, to Vision. And I'm like, you barely know the lad. Yeah. Like, this is like, I, okay, yes, I get it. They have also done news clippings in the background. Exactly.

[01:02:13] About how the genocidal, Surkovia, um, Ultron, yada, yada, yada. This gala takes place on the anniversary of the Surkovia attacks, Chris, you know? Yes. By the way, there was a very fantastic Easter egg that one of the people being interviewed for the Surkovia attacks is Terry Metallus. Very good. Um, yeah. So he got his little cameo there in the non-speaking or non-sounding role. Very good. I like it. Why, why not? He's, he's on set all the time.

[01:02:43] He might as well stick a camera in front of him. Um, but yeah, I think the thing that I'd probably forgotten is that of course everybody in the world thinks that Ultron was destroyed by Vision. Before the series, we all thought that, but we knew James Spader was coming back. So they had to have a way to work around it, right? That's what writers do. So, uh, it's only in this season that we found out that Ultron's been kept alive.

[01:03:08] His code has been kept alive inside of Vision since that very moment back in Age of Ultron, basically. So, uh, so that's Tommy's realization. He's like, hang on a second. You said there were four AIs in there. Now you're saying there's five. Oh yeah, I got the number wrong. Well, you can't do that. You're a massive super brain computer. Uh, you didn't get it wrong. You were lying to me and you were covering up what is inside that little hell of yours. Oh, it's Ultron. Uh, yeah. What if he gets out? It's like storing a nuclear weapon in your shed. Um, yeah, it probably won't. It'll be fine.

[01:03:38] That'll be grand. Don't worry about it. It's fine. It's a very Irish approach. I'm not going to lie. It's just like, wait, you're, you're storing all those kegs of dynamite beside all those bottles of petroleum. Yeah, sure. We can't. Don't worry. It's like, they're on the other sides. They're opposite each other. There's a gap in the middle. It'll be fine. It'll be grand. What happens if there's a fire? That hardly ever happens. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:04:06] That's, uh, that is very much, uh, visions, uh, conversation with Tommy and yes, it's gone pretty badly. So here we have the ultimate bad guy taking over, uh, the body of vision to end episode four. Fantastic. And walking away. Mm hmm. Um, absolutely fantastic. Before we give our viewpoint, do you have any notes? A couple of notes, um, that I wanted to call out.

[01:04:35] Um, there's a conversation between Paladin and his handler where he's going through some of his previous clients and, uh, all MCU connected, which I thought was really interesting. He says the first one, uh, he had a punishing disagreement, um, which is the punisher. Yeah. That's, that's a pretty obvious one. And then, uh, the handler calls out, um, do you remember that time you got a steel fiber fiber Billy club to the noggin in hell's kitchen? Uh, which is daredevil of course. Uh, and the one I really liked because we haven't had a reference to the character at

[01:05:03] all, uh, since the, uh, since the special and Halloween a couple of years ago, uh, he references Jack Russell, uh, from werewolf by night, a guy halfway between man and wolf perfectly, perfectly reasonable during the, during the day. Um, so yeah, I'm guessing, um, that's Jack Russell. Yes. So the Paladin always gets his mark. The contract is never finished.

[01:05:28] So is this to say that Jack Russell, he had a run in with the Jack Russell on a different project product? Like I was like, is Jack Russell no more? Werewolf by night no more? Interesting. Or is he, is he the one that he was going after man thing and Jack Russell's in the way? Maybe, um, I liked that they didn't make it clear that those were specifically targets.

[01:05:57] It was more, he's come across all of those characters in the MCU because he lives there and so do all of these characters. I think that was, that was the intent. Um, so no definitive answer, uh, as to, as to where Jack Russell is, uh, or whether he took him out, um, more just that he encountered, uh, the character and the fact that he said perfectly reasonable during the day makes you think that they talked it out. Um, that's, that's kind of the feeling I have.

[01:06:26] Maybe he went after the werewolf at night and then realized that he changed back into a human and went, actually, we can, we can talk about this. I don't have to kill you, uh, just keep yourself, keep yourself at a distance from other humans. Kind of the, the way, but also one of the big reveals about Paladin in this episode is that he's not a real Paladin. Um, he, he was given the title by the person that helped, helped him and saved him, uh, and saved his life, but he's not an actual generation Paladin.

[01:06:53] We'd, we'd had the idea that this was a title that passed down through every generation. Um, but he's just taken on the mantle rather than actually being trained into, or rather than becoming the, the true Paladin. So I think that was a little, a little interesting, uh, twist. Yeah. The fact that it's usually comes father to son, father to son. It's in the blood. His father was killed. His father was one of the, the, the bad guys. Yeah. That was taken by the Paladin and Paladin trained him up instead.

[01:07:23] Um, interesting because it does leave the Todd Slashwick is just such a great actor. Yeah. I love him. I know he's a character actor. I know he's really well known for all his kind of bit part, not bit parts, but he's like these characters that are not the main character. Yeah. These are now, he is now getting into his main character energy now where he's becoming main supporting character type of thing. Well, let's say he's appearing on shows that we're watching.

[01:07:52] Uh, I, I think we've, we got a lot of feedback in last week of fans of 12 monkeys where he became a regular player after the second season, I think it was. Um, but I've never gone past the first season of our first couple of episodes of 12 monkeys. I really enjoyed the first couple of episodes, but just, it's another one of those shows that has 70 episodes to catch up on. Um, and it wasn't available when, uh, when it was being released at the time. So now I've got to watch five full seasons of the show to catch up on what I know is going to be a great, great series. Um, I just love the film. Yeah. Have a watch, Chris.

[01:08:22] You'll probably love it. Uh, I think it's right up your wheelhouse as well. So, um, great stuff. It's enough finale. Um, I mentioned already the fact that Tommy discovering his phasing powers because he's trying so hard to get some iron, iron brew is, uh, is hilarious to me. I think that's really good. Uh, dummy and you both speaking in this episode a bit sooner than we expected. Um, at Jarvis's funeral and, uh, dummy quoting, uh, Keats, uh, and his, and his poetry, which is really good. Um, I've very odd. And you going. Yeah.

[01:08:53] That's great. I love that. That was the best one. And I was like, are they going to do it again? Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. I was like, fun, fun. Got it. You got to use them. Um, so yes, looking forward to seeing more now that they can speak and now they're starting to, uh, develop their personalities. We'll see a bit more of them hopefully, uh, as the season goes on or maybe not. Maybe they'll all be shut out of, uh, uh, uh, vision's mind, um, by Ultron. Um, the teachers that Tommy, uh, tries to get vision to wear, cause he thinks it's hilarious

[01:09:23] that a vision would wear a shirt saying, get a grip. Don't believe the blip. Uh, good, a good gag. Um, just in case some people might not remember the blip is what, as what the snap, uh, is known as in the, uh, in the MCU. So, uh, literally he's trying to get the person that was killed by Thanos to wear a shirt by a blip skeptic, um, which I think is a good little gag. Can I just ask if anyone from Disney is listening? Cause you know, you are, you're listening all the time. Um, I want that t-shirt.

[01:09:54] I can tell you right now, Chris, it's available on her universe, the website that does all of the nerdy shirts, uh, for all the Marvel shows. Um, you can go on there and, uh, and get your, your, get a grip. I don't believe the blip t-shirt. It was made available last week, I think. Um, before the episode aired, which I thought was quite, quite interesting. All right. There you go. That's I have some new, new threads flying my way. There you go. Um, whiskey watch, cause we always mention it.

[01:10:20] Um, again, it's Stafford 12 year old, uh, which seems to be the drink of choice for Paladin, despite him actually saying that his drink of choice is a pina colada. I like pina coladas. There you go. So I think the, uh, the production team are putting in whiskey watch for us, even though Paladin enjoys a pina colada. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. You can, no, I was gonna say, you can make a pina colada with, with whiskey and I'm like, no, it just, you would be on your ear if you made a pina colada with whiskey as well.

[01:10:49] Uh, whiskey chaser with your pina colada, maybe. There you go. That would be the way. So Chris, do you defend Vision Quest episodes three and four? I do. I, I do. This show, this show gets better and better. Um, my enthusiasm may not come, have fully come across right now. I am tired, but I'm really enjoying this. And I, I'm, it's one of those, I'm looking forward to Wednesdays again. Mm-hmm.

[01:11:14] We've had this with Daredevil with like those Wednesday drops where I'm actually even enjoying the, usually I would say and be of the opinion, no, do once a week, let us savor it. I'm very much into the binging of this, like these two episodes each time because I'm like, give me like, I'm enjoying this world again. I'm enjoying. It is very Marvel, but it's not at the same time.

[01:11:40] It is very, what we got with Agatha all along and WandaVision. It is its own beast while also being or paying homage to so many other shows and so many other bits. And it's so well written and it's so well choreographed and it's so well, like I'll give it all its flowers, but I'm enjoying it and I'm enjoying the characters and where we go.

[01:12:08] And yeah, so I fully defend this and I really think I need to see them land the plane, but this trilogy theoretically could be up there with some of the best trilogies if they land the plane on this one, because the ending is as much, is as important as the beginning and the middle. But yeah, so I am totally enjoying it. Derek, what about yourself? Do you defend these two episodes of Vision Quest? Absolutely.

[01:12:39] Yeah. Yeah. And completely defend both of these episodes. I think the first episode, episode three, had a lot of humorous that I wasn't expecting. And just reading back on some of the lines I thought were hilarious when we have Vision in the car with Tommy and he goes, can you smell that? Talking about something. And you just see Tommy going, I'm really sorry. I'm really nervous. Always a good gag.

[01:13:02] The joke about nobody likes a surprise rear entry and Ultron's reaction to that is great. I love the father of the year mug that Ultron's carrying. I think that's just really fantastic in that opening episode to do all of the humor. And then by the second episode, you've got a serial killer going around murdering people, revealing Jocasta, a major Marvel comic books character, and her origin story all in that episode.

[01:13:32] It's a much more serious episode, but still with that same sense of humor and the investigation that was going on. I thought that was really, really good. So, yeah, two really strong episodes here. Very different visions, as we've said, between each episode, but all forming a really interesting hole. So, well done to all the writers and directors on the show and the cast. I think they're all killing it. So, can't wait for the other half of the season and the next two episodes next week. Oh, my God. Yeah.

[01:14:01] This is the halfway point. I didn't even cop that in my head. There you go. Oh, no. Oh, yay. But oh, no. Well, thank you, Derek. Still got over four hours left to go, Chris. Don't you worry. Yes. Lots of good content. But before we get into our feedback, which is even better content because it comes from you, let's head to the pub because I could use a drink. Absolutely. Yes.

[01:14:26] Welcome back, fellow defenders and fellow quizzers to the Vision Quest old Selkie pub quiz. Got two more questions for you for this week. Our question on episode three is, what are Paladin's drones called? As three drones, what are their names? Snap, crackle and pop. Nope. That was in Reacher. That's what Reacher called some dudes. So it's not that. It is, what are Paladin's three drones called?

[01:14:57] And our question on episode four, what are Ultron and Vision asked identifying the squares by security bot 72181 to prove they are not robots? And what was the correct number of those items that are in those squares? Ooh, a two-parter. One more time. Question for that one was, what are Ultron and Vision asked to identify in the squares by the security bot 72181 to prove they are not robots?

[01:15:25] And second part of that, what was the correct number as well? A bit of banter between Ultron and Vision trying to work out what the number is, and you'll get the answer if you watch the scene again. Yes. Those are two more questions of the eight questions for Vision Quest. When you get all the correct answers at the end of the season, email us into feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with your answers. And you could be able to get your hands on some Vision Quest goodies. The questions are up on our website as well, over at tvpodcastindustries.com.

[01:15:55] And that email address is the same place you send your feedback in, too. Just like Coffee and Vodka, who sent in his thoughts on episode three and episode four. First up on episode three, he says, Greetings, fellow damaged defenders. I've got questions, lots of them, beginning with how software fixes solve a punctured hardware problem. But just taking the episode for a ride and letting the questions answer themselves makes for a more fun journey. Though I do have to wonder, is that Jocasta? If so, I'm loving Metallus more and more for honoring his source material.

[01:16:24] On to Vision Quest 104. Five synced synths, spurn-turned signals and glitchy withdrawals out of five. Peace and take care, Coffee and Vodka. Ooh, I think I glitched out on some of your ratings there. It's very difficult to say. Sinched synths. Sinked synths. Sinked synths, that's it. Very difficult to say. But great points there, Coffee and Vodka. And yes, you were right. It was Jocasta. Yes. Yes.

[01:16:53] On his second email on episode four, because I'm going to take my two parts on this, Coffee and Vodka had this to say, whoop, whoop. Now that's what I call a twist. Four in and receive bias. Be damned. This is taking the prize for best of trilogy. If, for no other reason, it's the only one to feel like an on-screen comic book. Mm-hmm. Jocasta's design, for example, being ripped directly from the pages.

[01:17:22] The plotting, scripting to Ultron's rise to duplicity gained power was well laid out and believable. And Tommy got his run on. Mm-hmm. As for Ultron's solution, nothing could be more Ultron. Not saying I wouldn't sell my soul for a couple of screeners, but not saying I wouldn't. Not. Five plucked pockets, plucky PIs, and purloined personages out of five. Peace and take care, coffee and vodka.

[01:17:52] Coffee and vodka. That is some serious. Five plucked pockets, plucky PIs, and purloined personages or personages out of five. No. Well, look, thank you so much. And I'm with you. I'm starting to agree that this is like, I don't know about best of the trilogy, but it is one of the best trilogies. I think it's really starting to get there. Yeah. I love how it is.

[01:18:22] You're right. It is ripped straight from the comic books in that the set design, like they designed Ultron to be so comic book accurate. So the fact that DaCosta is the same and it does have the homage to the honoring of who she was in the comic books, but being so different in this and but still saying, well, look,

[01:18:51] Ultron was a big, scary robot. So we're going to have another big, scary robot. So we're going to make it look like the other OG big, scary robot. Great. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's really smart to take more cues from the comic book. You know, it's pretty rare, actually, in the MCU because they're trying to condense for the most part, 70 or 80 years of history in a character down into a brand new character for all audiences to enjoy. So so what they've done with DaCosta here, I think, is really good and bring her into the universe. It's great.

[01:19:21] So, yeah, looking forward to seeing how she develops over the rest of the show. So we don't have any more screeners, so we haven't been able to watch any further ahead now. So so don't worry if you had screeners, they'd be gone by now. Coffee and vodka. Yeah, let's move on over to our Discord server. First up, Dr. Bob says what? Two visions again and one evil twin leaving corpses with angel wings and the paladin is an adoptee mirroring the non-biological inheritance in the previous two series.

[01:19:50] And we get a beautiful rendition of Keith's from Dummy. Great plot points. And are we going to do some more exploring of different ways to be family in this season to complete the nuclear chosen acquired triplet, along with the fundamentals of individual identity, of course? Quite exciting. Love it, Dr. Bob. You're absolutely right. Yeah. The spiritual successor here or the spiritual third part of the trilogy.

[01:20:14] Yeah, they're doing another another talk about family and yeah, nuclear chosen or acquired as a great a great way to think about each of the three parts of the trilogy from WandaVision to to Agatha Long and now into Vision Quest. Yeah, no great connections, Dr. Bob. Thank you so much. Also on Discord, Paul Lee had this to say. I'm having a difficult time keeping these double episodes drop separate. So you're going to get my thoughts on both.

[01:20:42] One, love all the wordplay and continuing visual puns around Vision being a computing entity and particularly loving the exorcism of Vision. Two, I don't understand the larger role for Paladin in the show, except maybe how this iteration has troubled relationship with his biological father, but ended up seemingly loving father figure in the form of his predecessor, Paladin. Three, which leads to the seemingly unifying theme of fathers and sons for the series.

[01:21:12] There's also the idea of family being what makes humans human. In episode four, we get a stripped down summary of Jim, Jim Hammond, the first AI in the MCU, the original Human Torch in the Marvel comics and an Easter egg in the first Captain America movie. Based on some outsider info, I'm speculating that like Jarvis, Friday and Edith, Vision was based on another real life person that Tony Stark knew about.

[01:21:40] My theory is that Ultron's human avatar is based on Dr. Phineas Hammond, Jim's creator. I wonder if we'll get a flashback historical scene with a clean shaven James Spader. Thanks, Paul. Ooh, clean shaven James Spader. I have not seen one of those in a very long time. I can't wait to see clean shaven James Spader.

[01:22:10] I'm so sick of that beard. It feels like it's just rubbing on things all the time. I know Ultron doesn't eat, thankfully, because I would be nervous every time I saw him eat breakfast if he had that actual beard. Think of the soup. Just imagine eating soup. That's my nightmare. I'm not a big beard fan, as I've talked about before on the podcast, but having someone with that beard walking around just gathering birds and food would just be a nightmare.

[01:22:37] So I hope we do get a flash to James Spader without the beard. But luckily then you do get, if there's food in the beard, the birds have something to eat. So it's fine. There you go. Just ecosystem. It's all about the ecosystem. So lovely. Great thoughts, Paul, for the series. I just do want to caution everybody that all eight episodes were made available as screeners.

[01:23:03] So some of the things that you're seeing out there as theories on sites. Quote, unquote, bunny ears. Yeah. Theories. It is a warning that we give pretty often on these shows that if, especially in this case, they didn't hold back the final episode on the screeners, all eight episodes were available. So if you had time to sit down and watch eight hours, they've seen it. And if they're saying, oh, we've got a theory about what's going to happen in the final episode,

[01:23:33] sometimes that theory is actually just them spoiling the end of the season. So just be really careful out there. So I will try my best to catch any of those and make sure that we don't talk about them on the podcast here. So I did have to edit a little bit of your note there, Paul. I hope you don't mind. Just based on a little piece of information that actually could have been a spoiler for the end of the season. Yes. Thank you, Paul. And stay safe out there, folks.

[01:24:00] Remember, all theories said here by myself are too stupid to be real. God, it's terrible. I was reading Russell T. Davis's biography, Russell T. Davis, the person who brought back Doctor Who. And he said one of the reasons why he never wants to do Doctor Who again is because everything that he did, every twist, every piece of writing that he did was spoiled before the shows were released, no matter what they did.

[01:24:31] Every single piece, it was spoiled. And by the time it was shown on screen, the internet had already made up its mind about all of the twists before they'd even seen them. So it didn't matter the context of what was happening. Every single thing that was in every episode. So he just said it was so frustrating to make a show like that, that he never wants to work in that field again. Isn't that awful? Yeah. He lost one of the best creatives in nerd culture because people love to spoil the end

[01:24:57] of things rather than just enjoying the process of watching the entertainment that they're enjoying, you know? Like, without him, we wouldn't have got the War Doctor. Yeah. Like, and such great lore. Mm-hmm. So many wonderful things. We wouldn't have David Tennant as amazingly famous as he is. He's come from the school of Russell T. Davis, effectively. Oh, yeah, that's true. No Kilgrave. Yeah. No Purple Man. There you go. So sad. But a great biography. Go read Russell T. Davis's biography. It's really interesting.

[01:25:26] It's more about TV. I love that he opens it up saying, I'm not going to talk about my family or friends or anything like that. This is just going to be about all my time in TV. So if you like TV, read that book. It's a great book. There you go. That's back on to our feedback, though. Let's get on to Facebook. First up, Mathematician over on Facebook gave his feedback on each of the two episodes. First up on episode three, he says, we find out the Paladin has taken a beating from Daredevil in the past. And then, quote, wait for it. Wait for it. How are you, my dad? Boom shakalak.

[01:25:54] James Spader is just fabulous. I've mentioned MCU doing parallel scenes in the past and poor Tommy getting flashbacks of the drowning incident here with the Paladin getting some of his own childhood trauma flashbacks too. I'm wondering here if Alison Hogan is Happy's mom and who Edith Marks is. Any ideas? Just cutting in to say, I think you found out in the next episode. Alison Hogan was the name of Friday. And we find out who she is in the next episode. Mathematician continues. Wish I could do what Tommy did with that vending machine.

[01:26:23] Hate it when my Mars bar gets stuck on the twirly thing. Confirmed for me that the spirit contained the speed power for Tommy as he started boiling the water as soon as he possessed the drowning boy's body. So no X gene, thankfully. Tony's words to Bruce in Infinity War that Vision was evolving manifested here as Vision started to glitch and became angry, something he didn't appear capable of in his early days. Then some more evidence of Vision evolving as his life flashes before his eyes before

[01:26:49] he dies only for Tommy to replicate Mjolnir using lightning to power up Vision by creating his own kinetic energy to charge up his dad. Paladin bent by the mystery voice. I do think it's Sharon, by the way. But Arnim Zola is my left field shout. And Dummy has a voice. Memories of watching Barry McGregor as a child and his dad singing Oh Danny Boy in the ring before the fight with Yu's rendition was surprisingly nostalgic here before Butcher Bird then gets into Vision's head. Who's the other synth?

[01:27:18] A little slower than episode two, which is fine. And I think it's now setting up the paladin as an ally of Vision's. We'll see. I love your reference there, Mathematician, to Barry McGregor and Oh Danny Boy in the ring during a boxing match. Especially because we see Vision talk to Tommy about boxing as well in this episode. So I wonder if somebody else has that kind of memory and connection there. And is it Sharon Carter or Arnim Zola, the client for Paladin?

[01:27:44] We'd already brought up the fact of the power broker. So definitely an interesting one. Zola was one I did not think of. Which would be really interesting. I say either thing. I was like, wait, where is Zola? Where is that character? I cannot for the life of me remember. But it does make sense. Were you taken off by the Wakandans at the end of Falcon and the Winter Soldier? Did they get him at the end? Or did he walk off into the sunset at the end of that? I can't remember. Yeah. Have to check that out. Maybe.

[01:28:14] Maybe we'll see you next week. Yeah. On to episode four. Mathematician says, Butcher Bird hacking into Vision's head, giving Edith the opportunity for some double entendre innuendo. She's hilarious. She also hates agreeing with Ultron, but they had to plan to find the synth killer. Loved how they had to solve the captcha in the episode. Those things are nearly as irritating as the vending machine that traps your Mars bar. Like Ultron, I always get anxious if a tiny part of the image leaks slightly into another square. Do you have to select that square or not?

[01:28:43] Vision channels his inner C-3PO letting us know how many languages he can speak. And the useful Lisa uses fake arms to get them passes for the gala. Love how Stark's old records were actually vinyl records. And I got my answers about who Alison Hogan and Edith Marks were. We find out Edith laughs in the face of death as her personality is based around a stuntman who used to test drive Howard's inventions. Some heartwarming bonding between Ultron and Edith was also great to see. Still don't trust Ultron, though.

[01:29:11] Tommy is smart and figures out that Vision was lying, and Ultron is also an AI inside his head before using his speed to save Katrina from Mrs. Ultron. Ultron senses his moment and takes control. Will he hand the reins back over to Vision? Brilliant episode. Five crab canapes out of five. Very good. Will Ultron hand back over the reins to Vision? It's a 50-50 chance.

[01:29:38] I think he accomplished what he took over the body for by having Katarina killed, and now he has the body, which is what he wanted. So, yeah, I don't think he's going to be handing it back over to Vision. Vision will hopefully fight inside to get the body back, because he is the hero of this story, right? But I don't think Ultron will be handing anything over to anybody. That's not in his nature. Brilliant stuff. Thanks for that, mathematician. Yes, thanks, mathematician. Also on Facebook,

[01:30:08] we have some feedback from Heather Wallace, who had this to say. I rolled my eyes when yet another old American sitcom appeared on British TV in episode three. But the explanation was perfect. The scene was a vision simulation, and he was rejecting Wanda's love of classic sitcoms on Tommy. Because as anyone who has ever turned on a TV in the UK knows, you will always get Midsummer Murders. It doesn't matter what day of the week, the time of the day,

[01:30:38] or even the TV station. It's always Midsummer Murders. Quick note from Chris, for anyone who's wondering, Midsummer Murders is M-I-D-S-O-M-E-R. Murders. And think of it as a British, best way of putting it would be Murder, She Wrote. Exactly. But it was terrible. I was afraid to say it. Murder, She Wrote is a classic. It will never be beaten. Back to what Heather had to say.

[01:31:06] Vision Quest is continuing the excellent MCU ability to take a villain or minor character from one of their movies and give them nuance, make them sympathetic. Falcon the Winter Soldier made Zemo a standout and very entertaining, while Wonder Man transformed Trevor from the comic relief to a deeply moving character. The scene between Ultron and Edith is in that vein. He was so compassionate, understanding, and encouraging of her. I don't think it was a con.

[01:31:35] Or was he trying to get her to trust him? His reflections on his own limitations were touched with sadness and loneliness. It was such a superb scene. There are moments that feel like Vision Quest is connected to other TV sci-fi universes. Mary McDonald's casting as Katerina. Wells, who expounces the transhumanism, cracks straight through to Battlestar Galactica. And the Markridge Company that developed the eyes is the same name as the evil company in Twelve Monkeys.

[01:32:05] Mmm. There you go. The songs in this pair of episodes are on point. Episode 3 is Believe It or Not from The Greatest American Hero. I love that show in the 80s. Me too. And Episode 4 is Bad by Freedom Fries with the lyrics, Now You'll See a Different Side of Me. Oh. Speaking of The Greatest American Hero, such a good show. That's a great show. Great pull. And also, it's apparently being rebooted as well now,

[01:32:34] and it's going to be rebooted with a female character, and it's going to be so good. Things I've heard about it was such a, like, ooh, I can't wait for that. But yeah, let's wait and see. Thank you so much, Heather. Absolutely. Thanks, Heather. I know there was some kind of comic book that came out recently with Greatest American Hero, but that theme tune, I remember hearing it back in the 80s. It was the only superhero show we had for a few years, and I remember my mom absolutely loving it,

[01:33:04] and always calling us in when she heard that opening theme as well. So, loved it. Yeah, they really have done a good job in Vision Quest so far, just making characters sympathetic and interesting and different from what we saw in the past. I do say, though, every time I watch Age of Ultron, I enjoy James Spader's performance even more than I did back then. I think the movie itself at the time, there was just, it wasn't the best of the Marvel movies,

[01:33:32] but it is still up there as one of the top movies, and his performance in there is always good to watch, so seeing what they've done with them in this show is excellent. If you want more Battlestar Galactica characters, Heather Wallace, go over and check out Carrie on Prime Video. I think there are eight actors from Battlestar Galactica. Mike Flanagan has said that he is basically just collecting them all.

[01:34:02] He wants to get them all into his shows, so he's now gotten about eight of them in there. So, if you like a bit of horror, and you don't mind a remake, go check out Mike Flanagan's Carrie. It's really, really fun, really good, well, fun, and horrific as well. horrific, and it's Mike Flanagan. If you liked any of his previous Netflix stuff, it's just fantastic. If you like sci-fi, it's fantastic. If you like Stephen King books, it's fantastic. Just watch it. It's fantastic. And don't worry,

[01:34:31] everybody including Mike Flanagan and Stephen King had the same reaction when Mike Flanagan was asked to make Carrie. They all said, why? There's a good movie out there, and he came up with a good reason why, so highly, highly recommend it. Thanks so much to all of you for your feedback this week for this episode of Vision Quest, or these two episodes of Vision Quest. We'll be back next week with episode five, Firewall, and episode six, Deadlock. We want to hear your thoughts on those episodes. Email us into feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com, or join us over in our Facebook group at facebook.com

[01:35:00] slash groups slash tvpodcastindustries, or join us on our Discord, the details of which are in the show notes for this very episode. Can't wait to chat to you about those two episodes next week, though. Yes. So until then, make sure your firewalls are up. You do not get possessed by any bad malware. And until that point, keep watching, keep listening, and keep defending. Bye. Bye. Bye.

[01:36:05] If you have not done it yet, make sure you head on over to tvpodcastindustries.com and subscribe on any Wiccan or Android loving podcast. No, my God, sorry, that completely threw me off. Wiccan or Android, which, that's an old one. It's, no, it's, it's wonderful, isn't it? I know. Yeah.

[01:36:41] Sorry, my brain's stuck. You need to reboot, Chris. Yeah. We'll be back next week with episode five, Firewall, and episode six, Dreadlock, and we'd love to hear your thoughts on those two episodes. You can email us into Dreadlock? Did I say Dreadlock? You said Dreadlock. I did.