VisionQuest Episode 8 Review

[00:00:00] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're talking about the final episode of VisionQuest, Episode 8, Forever. Wait, Friday. Where is Friday? There was another AI inside her mind. Nope, just him. Uh-oh. Alfred, what did you do to her?

[00:00:22] Oh no, he's muted. As much as I love the sound of my own voice, he will not shut up. Listen to this guy. Being a obsequious, narcissistic little wiener of a dipshit meatball and playing God no less, I will crush you like the insignificant bug that you are. See? Oh my God. Shut up, my didactic dude. I thought about deleting him, but he's such a fun little toy.

[00:00:53] I'd buy a digital jazz, John.

[00:01:24] Absolutely. Welcome back, fellow Defenders. This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we are going to be talking all about the final episode of this season, VisionQuest, Episode 8, Forever. I'm one of your hosts, John. I am your other host, Derek. Nailed it, I think. Oops, I horned.

[00:01:49] Oh, what a finale. What an episode. What a series. What a trilogy of shows all leading to an excellent post-credit scene, which we will talk about, obviously, as we get to the end of it. But just want to say this is a surprise to everybody. The post-credit scene, the second one that's in there, was not on any screeners that were out there, was, as far as I know, wasn't shown at the events that they had for the finale.

[00:02:12] So nobody knew until this episode was available that a post-credit scene would tie directly into the future of the MCU. Yes, absolutely. We'll have to get into that, but certainly I do think we got some comments from a couple of Defenders in feedback saying, oh, wouldn't it be great if they did? And we were kind of like going, no, they're not going to get the money for that. And then, lo and behold, there is a caped figure.

[00:02:41] But we'll come to it. Yes. When we discuss those post-credit moments from Vision Quest. And if you haven't watched the episode, we're going to spoil it all from now on, including those two post-credit scenes. So make sure you go and watch those. Also, quickly, before we get into our chat, we have done our spoiler podcast about Avengers Endgame Encore. And just to say that is being released on Disney Plus this very weekend.

[00:03:08] So you do have something else to watch directly after you finish your Vision Quest view through. You can go on and watch Avengers Endgame Encore with those extra four minutes and all the extra scenes that we talked about in our podcast. So that's also worth watching before you see Doomsday. Yes. And what's also worth watching now, given what we saw in the post-credit scenes, is the gloriously nutty Multiverse of Madness. And you just want more people to watch Doctor Strange, don't you, John? Yes, exactly. Everybody should watch Doctor Strange. We should do. Multiple times, yes.

[00:03:36] The utter nuttiness that is the Multiverse of Madness, which is fab. But yes, I think just before we get into our spoiler-filled discussion of Episode 8, just a quick reminder, fellow defenders. Yes, if you want to catch our thoughts and theories around the Marvel movies, you can subscribe to our movies podcast over on our website at tvpodcastindustries.com,

[00:04:01] where you can subscribe on any Wiccan or Speedster-loving podcast player of your choice. We are, of course... We could have just called it Wiccan or Speed, because that's their actual superhero names in the comics. Yes, but it's also a drug. The name of the drug. Speed-loving podcast player. Yes, he's whizzed off his face. Yes, indeed. Of course, we love to get your thoughts, theories, and observations, fellow defenders.

[00:04:29] So please, you can send in emails to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com, over on our Facebook group at facebook.com forward slash tvpodcastindustries forward slash groups. We do have our spoiler posts that you can comment on. And, of course, in the show notes, there is the link to our Discord site as well. Absolutely.

[00:04:56] And, unfortunately, Chris can't be with us for this finale. He was really hoping to join us for this final episode. I did get a text from him last night with his thoughts on the final episode. He absolutely loved this episode and absolutely loved the series overall. But, unfortunately, things didn't work out, so he can't join us for this episode. He may be able to join us for our final wrap-up episode, where we announce the winner of our pub quiz. We have one more question to go in our Vision Quest pub quiz, which will be out later on in the episode. But he is travelling as well for work at the moment,

[00:05:25] so I'm not sure if he's going to be back in time for that. Absolutely. And it will be a bit of a pub quiz-a-thon as well in terms of that, because we do have our lanterns pub quiz as well that we need to wrap up as well. Yeah. And we were waiting on Chris to be able to share his thoughts on lanterns, and, unfortunately, he hasn't been able to fill it into his ever-growing busy schedule. Indeed.

[00:05:48] But we, of course, are continuing our old Salkey in pub quiz for Vision Quest, and we'll be up with our final question of the series with question eight later in the podcast. Yep. And if you want to join that pub quiz or send us any of your feedback, just email us to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com with your answers at the end of the series once you get that last question. Excellent stuff.

[00:06:16] Derek, do you want to take us through some of the episode details for episode eight, Forever? Yes, of course. The show was created for television by Terry Metallus, based on Vision, created by Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Josephine Carrington, Virgil Horton, and Phineas Horton, I think. Anybody else contribute to Vision's creation? Well, I'm brought alive by Thor. Yeah. And, of course, Dr. Helen Cho. That's right. Yes, lots of people involved in the creation of Vision.

[00:06:46] I did say I would come back in the final episode and fill out all the extra people. But originally, of course, Vision was created by Roy Thomas and artist Joe Beshamey in Avengers number 57 as well. The executive producers for this show are Kevin Feige, Louis Desposito, Brad Winterbaum, Mary Levanus, Terry Metallus, Jack Schafer, and Christopher J. Byrne.

[00:07:06] This final episode was written and directed by Terry Metallus tying together all of the pieces for this season in a pretty wonderful way, really. Excellent stuff. Yes. Nice little bow with a cherry on top. Definitely. John, do you want to tell us what he gave us with your synopsis for Vision Quest Episode 8 Forever? Sure.

[00:07:28] After turning both Jocasta and Vision into serving robots, the client is revealed to be Virgil Horton, Phineas's grandson and Joe Carrington's husband. While trying to solve his grandfather's artificial intelligence algorithms, he partnered with Joe, but, to her shock and revulsion later, sold the algorithms to Stark Industries to secure his legacy as a Horton. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:51] Virgil took a job with Sword and was instrumental in restoring Vision's body while also siphoning off parts to create Jocasta. After Joe's death, he planned to transfer his consciousness into Vision and reunite with Joe. Together, they would be a god and goddess and use the reprogrammed nanobots to rule the world. Paladin survives the RPG attack on his murder van with Edith's help and joins Tommy and Lisa in freeing Vision and Jocasta.

[00:08:21] But in the breakout attempt, Virgil shoots Jocasta with adamantium bullets after she attacks him. In her dying moments, Jocasta sends nanobots to merge with Ultron, captured by Virgil, allowing him to escape his hard drive prison and regain his body. Ultron kills Virgil with a heavy hug, and having lost his true love, he resumes his plan to wipe out humanity.

[00:08:46] Knowing the pain of grief, Vision traps Ultron in a television sitcom and convinces him to stand down by letting him face his loss. The processing needed for the sitcom simulation starts the destruction of the core processors of Vision and Ultron in order to destroy the nanobots. But Ultron is able to transfer his consciousness to some unaccounted nanobots to escape his sitcom prison.

[00:09:12] Meanwhile, as Vision's core processor fails, Billy Maximoff finally tracks down his brother Tommy, and together they restore their father. Vision leaves his mind space with the other AI synths. Paladin and Lisa reform with Edith as their new AI guidance, while Tommy and Vision head to visit Billy in the real world in Eastview, New York, very close to where their family began.

[00:09:38] In two mid-credits scenes, Ultron is revealed to have retained Jocasta's data drive, while a hooded figure awakens Wanda at Mount Wundergore, seeking her power. Dun, dun, dun. Oh yes, lots and lots and lots to talk about in this episode. What a great final moment in those post-credits. But the final post-credits were not what made this episode. This episode was fantastic from the off.

[00:10:06] You know, we left it in that massive cliffhanger at the end of last episode. Hang on a second. How is it possible that James Spader could be behind all of this, even with his amazing mustache? But who's this character? And then we start the new episode off and running straight away with the reveal of who the client is and what's behind it. And I think from that point onwards, I think it just gets better and better as the episode goes on. I really love this. Yeah, it was a great episode.

[00:10:31] I think it tied everything up really, really nicely and neatly. The post-credits were a little bit of additional frosting on the cake. A little bit of decoration, but always good to see. So yeah, I think we should get on to our code line number one. Absolutely. It is the client is revealed. He certainly is. Virgil Horton has been revealed.

[00:11:00] He is and always will be. Who? Is that a Horton? Here's a who. Yes. No, that was thinking from Guardians of the Galaxy. But it works really well with Virgil Horton. I know, exactly. Yes, I was just trying to do my Star-Lord moment with Korath. From Guardians, of course. Yes, from Guardians. But Horton here's a who works really well, too. Absolutely. That was my out of five last week. That's true. That's true. But what did you think of the big reveal?

[00:11:29] That we have effectively the face of Ultron passed in through generations into this. Well, from Virgil Horton through all of these different generations into the AI, I guess, persona of Ultron. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I think it was quite good. It's almost quite short-lived, really.

[00:11:53] I think I like the drama of the silhouetted figure more than it being revealed to be Virgil, who, in the end, is actually only in this episode for maybe the first third of it. Yeah, yeah. Just the way it's been written. But, you know, at least it kind of ties up the fact of, okay, well, that's where the notebook went.

[00:12:16] But I like how this character has kind of got the moment in this episode, but has been threaded through the last couple of episodes, whether it's through the shadowy client figure or with the sort of loft apartment in New York. That kind of remembering scene for Joe Carrington and Jocasta with the sort of missing memories. So I kind of really like that.

[00:12:45] And I think, yeah, it's an interesting tie to the Phineas Horton line within this. And I do like the comedy of Oops, I've Horton'd just because the family name has been kind of sort of riven with failure. It's anonymous with failure now, yes. Yeah.

[00:13:06] But it's, yeah, I guess I like the notion that an element of the humanity of the creators of the AI has persisted through. But we've seen that through with that loft space, for example, and here now with Virgil Horton. Yeah. In the form of Ultron. Yeah.

[00:13:31] And earlier on in the series, they were preparing us for this because we had Friday being connected to somebody in Tony Stark's life. We had Edith being connected to somebody else in Harriet Stark's life, wasn't it? Yes. And Tony Stark's life as well. So kind of the way I see this is effectively they were the creators of the code that was bought by Stark Industries. He put his extra stamp on it. He's the one that sold it on to Stark Industries, this character that we're introduced to here, Virgil Horton.

[00:13:56] So the imprint is on the code that eventually became Ultron, taking his view effectively, taking his visage effectively within that code. So it's kind of a representation of the code is how I see it. I mean, I would like to see Age of Ultron again. Because I think there's certain details in there where I'm not entirely sure how it plays out.

[00:14:23] I'm sure they've looked at the continuity and consistency of it all. I'm sure it's all fine. But I just think with Von Strucker and stuff and that attack on his base at the start. And then I always remember the sort of blue Infinity Stone being somehow related to this, hence why he was that blue kind of feeling.

[00:14:48] And it was also because it kind of penetrated into the multiple Iron Man sort of clones that had been developed. So, look, it doesn't really matter to me on that. But I probably need to see Age of Ultron again. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:15:06] But I suppose the point that they're making in this show, and it is brand new in this show really, is that the code that was purchased by Stark Industries for Jarvis eventually led to the basis of Ultron. So, because it led to the basis of Ultron, this character of Virgil, a bit of him is in the code. And that's why Ultron's kind of presenting as this person, even though he doesn't know who he is. In the same way that Edith's presenting as the test pilot, even though she never knew who that was either.

[00:15:36] Yeah, but is he presenting as that? Or is it Vision presenting him? So, in which case, that makes more sense around Jarvis. Because I do think, ultimately, if the AI that was developed by Stark, and this is, for me, where it connects in, is because Jarvis was consumed by Ultron. So, all that coding that's come through the Vision side of things, you know? Yeah. Well, Vision is emerging then of Jarvis and Ultron.

[00:16:06] So, it's just, like, in that sense. Well, we learned last week that the reason why he has the face of Phineas Horton is because he goes back to the full source code as well. Exactly. So, it's kind of like they diverged slightly after Ultron was created. That's kind of the way. Yes. But, you know, it doesn't have to make 100% sense because this is the story of this show. And the show is about fathers and sons. This show is about the legacy of the creation of AI here in the MCU. I see the family line here.

[00:16:34] I think what's interesting as well is that with Virgil Horton, it's like, in a sense, the dark, shadowy figure of the client had more gravitas. And I think here, I don't mean this in a bad way, but ultimately what Virgil Horton gets revealed to be is someone who's really just trying to claim his money and his reputation. Because the Horton name, as you say, is synonymous with failure.

[00:17:02] He wants to kind of buy that back. So, he's bought the haul. But it's all been at the cost of selling the intellectual property, the invention that both him and his wife, Jo, had done. And I mean, when you hear him talking, he's like, you know, credit where credit's due. It was your idea of mapping our minds.

[00:17:27] That is why we were able to make that sort of jump from the general artificial intelligence. So, he came with the book, She Solved the Problem. The Problem. Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:41] And I think, you know, because you see the revulsion in Joe Carrington as this robotic server in the big dining room when she talks about him selling their work to Stark Industries. You saw a bit of that in the previous episode. So, I like that contrast here between the client as what he was trying to do and the reality.

[00:18:10] It's a bit, and it's very much The Wizard of Oz again. It's pulling back the curtain to reveal, actually, it's someone maybe quite not as scary as what the client with the ominous voice. It's someone who still has an awful lot of power, still very, very vindictive. But ultimately, the motivations here are absolutely self-serving.

[00:18:38] Well, 100%, and that's probably the big moment here. And I'm kind of glad they sectioned this off into three sections. You know, I'm glad this didn't take up the whole episode, the reveal of who the client is and what he wants to do. He had a fairly simple plan. He's the one that had rebuilt the body of Vision so that he could put his essence inside of it and also built the body of Jocasta so he could put Joe's essence inside of it.

[00:19:03] Then the two of them could live for hundreds of years and take control of the world using the nanobots that Joe had created. So, he had made this whole plan. It was a relatively straightforward plan to take over the world. And he is pretty evil, but I'm glad they didn't lose the fact that he is very powerful here. Yes. At the opening of this episode, what's happening is he's taken over the body of these incredible AIs that could be massively powerful. One of them is a superhero Avenger, effectively.

[00:19:31] And he's turned them into robots. He has literally turned them into the actual definition, slaves to serve food and serve him. They're doing everything he's telling them to do. He's just pressing a few buttons. And he's in complete control of the two of them until that control is released. So, he is massively powerful in these moments at the beginning. Yeah. He's shut down Ultron and turned him into just a light bulb and muted him. So, Ultron doesn't even get to talk in his presence, which is the wonderful clip that we have at the beginning.

[00:20:01] I do really enjoy the fact that Ultron has been sort of rendered angry and contained in what looks like to be a hard drive crossed with sort of 2001 Space Odyssey's Hal. So, I really, really like that. And yes, that moment where he sort of lets a little bit of Ultron out and sort of puts the audio on for the hard drive is just really, really good.

[00:20:31] I think there's another really great moment here because, you know, he's pontificating. He's walking around, he goes, you know, his love for Joe, she turned anything magic, even the shithole loft that we were in, brought the general artificial to life, as I was saying, using their own minds to bring the real to the artificial.

[00:20:55] But with feelings, which is the most important part, you know, it's what Vision was denying himself throughout the first seven episodes of the show until last week. He was denying that he had the feelings of the original Vision when he when he realizes he does. He realizes he's always been that person that comes from the fact that Joe and Virgil together put feelings into their artificial general intelligence that they created something different than had ever been created before.

[00:21:24] So that's really important and it comes across. And it's made more interesting by the fact that as Joe Carrington hears these words from him, she falls even less in love with him. Yes. Because she already has Ultron. It's such an interesting idea that effectively his entire plan was I'll bring the woman I love back to life and the two of us will rule the world together when I get a body that will last forever. And she's already found somebody else to replace him.

[00:21:50] And as he explains who he is and his plan, she gets less and less interested in him. Oh, as she says, I've found the best of you already. I like the flashbacks to him working on Vision, getting the parts for Jocosta. And when she realizes what he's done, that's when he puts the gaps in her memory. And, you know, she ultimately comes back here revulsed at everything he's saying, what he's doing.

[00:22:19] She she has no time. I mean, but then the flip side of this, there's absolutely fantastic moment where really Virgil is believes he can still win her back. And he puts the record on and starts to dance to Rhinestone Cowboy. James Spader, you absolute legend. But also, not just James Spader. Both of them, James Spader and Tania Miller are just off the charts.

[00:22:48] Great here. I just don't think I've seen someone dance with disdain the way that Tania Miller delivers the dance. She's going along with him and he does this motion where he twiddles the wax in his mustache and she turns that into almost a Pulp Fiction type dance where she's twiddling an invisible mustache on her face back at him. But just you can see she's seething with anger at being, again, turned into a robot after being one of the most powerful characters in the show.

[00:23:16] She's hating every moment of it. And I think manages to clip his plums whilst she's at it, which is just really good. I mean, it's just absolutely top-notch scene. I mean, if ever there was just this moment of like where a scene or situation flipped and you just have this really wonderful comedic moment. But it's tragic as well.

[00:23:45] It's tragic for Virgil because he believes this is an aspect that would be a good memory for her, be able to win her back. Clearly something that they'd done previously. It's clearly a record, he thinks, you know. You always hate it at the start, but then you're singing along with it. Yeah, exactly. Which is probably true of everybody that's ever heard Ronstone. Exactly. Well, it's been in my mind. It's been a little earworm for the last while for me, which is slightly annoying. Absolutely.

[00:24:14] But yeah, I just thought this scene was lovely. And I just think this client reveal, you know, was pretty well done, to be honest. Absolutely. And with the client reveal, well, we have to take him down somehow. So let's get on to our code line number two to talk a bit about that. So code line number two is hugs for everyone. Hugs for everyone. But we'll start up with a nice hug, I think, because Tommy's trying to realize his part in all of this in the outside real world.

[00:24:43] And he's with Lisa. And he decides to do a flatliners, as any of the older members of our listeners and fellow defenders might remember. He decides to effectively put himself to death so that while he's in that space of death, hopefully Billy might be able to find him. And he drowns himself. Of course, he was created in a moment of drowning. So he feels that this point might be able to connect him with his brother. And it does. You know what, John?

[00:25:12] I have seen this now twice or three times. And I really do well up with emotion when we see Billy arriving. There's something great about seeing these two characters connect after all the time that's turned apart. We saw Agatha all along. Excellent show. If you haven't watched it, go watch it. But Billy Maximoff, in that show, you realize how much he's holding on to finding his brother throughout that whole series of the show. That's what's driving him. That's what's making him the person that he is.

[00:25:41] And to realize there is this moment where the two of them are able to connect in their own virtual mind space where Billy has been trying to find his brother for months and eventually finds him because Vision reveals to him all about WandaVision, reveals properly about his family. And this allows Tommy to find Billy or Tommy to put himself on the line to find Billy. Yeah.

[00:26:03] And actually, whilst he's got these powers, he is still learning because the connection, as it starts to fade, you know, he's not sure he's going to be able to find Tommy despite having this meeting. And, yes, as you say, the first hug being a psychic hug in this psychic space. I do like the fact that Tommy goes, well, is this a real hug or not? A real hugger. A real hugger.

[00:26:30] But, yeah, no, this is really a great little moment here. I also like Joe Locke and how he performs the character. He's playing him as American. He's supposed to be from Eastview in New York. And he meets Tommy and Tommy's got the Scottish accent. He goes, oh, even now you're the cooler one than me. And he's like, am I cool? I think it's just really cute to have a moment between the two of them. One of the things that the eagle-eared among you may have noticed. Is it eagle-eared? What has good ears, John? What hears things really, really well?

[00:26:58] The bat-eared among you may have noticed that Billy's talking to someone in the background. And the last we left, Agatha all along, there was ghost Agatha who was going to help Billy find his brother. And we hear Billy talking to her about how bad he is at doing portals. It'll be really difficult for him to travel to Tommy. Well, he's talking to somebody off-screen about how bad he is at portals. I suspect it's Agatha. And this week, Terry Metallica said they never once considered having Catherine Han in the show.

[00:27:29] They didn't have the budget to do that, is specifically what he said. Some people were saying that's because Catherine Han's wage bill is quite a lot of money. I think what he meant was doing a ghost in the episode might be a bit over the budget that he had available. I think that's what he really meant. I don't think he was saying Catherine Han wouldn't come back for it. But I just think it was interesting. They just had a little nod to the fact that Agatha could be still there as a ghost that nobody else can see. But that starts out our hugs for this part of the episode.

[00:27:56] It also inspires Tommy to use his speed powers and join up with Paladin, who is alive because Edith saved him. Lisa and Tommy, Paladin and Edith are joined up together outside of the house. And Tommy decides to use his speed power to go inside and save his dad. And they have the most wonderfully realized scene here, where we just see a little whiff of the speedster going round and round the table.

[00:28:26] And then you see a little salt spread on the table. And then you see Hi Dad written in the salt. And then realize that effectively Tommy is accelerating his speed around the table. And Vision has to accelerate his mind to catch up with Tommy so they can have a conversation about what they can do to take down Virgil. And I love that it then goes into effectively slow-mo.

[00:28:52] Because they're visualizing the super high synaptic processes or whatever of Vision. So that was absolutely fantastic here. And I think the opening line, because this is all coming just after we've had the rhinestone cowboy dance and Vision's like going, look, I'm being deleted here. Luckily, he's not deleted anything important yet. But I wouldn't mind losing the last 153 seconds.

[00:29:20] So it was absolutely classic whilst you've got Tommy sort of doing the slow-mo run around the table, which I thought was really, really good. It was fantastic. And I kind of like how this plays out because he's talking to Vision. He's saying, look, I'll get the guards and da-da-da-da and I'll do this. He's like, no, destroy Virgil's console that he's controlling us with.

[00:29:48] And in the end, Jocasta catches up as well and also starts to join the conversation saying, look, do as Vision has said. And he's like, well, can we trust her? And here we have Vision saying, yes, she's family. She's part of the lineage of Phineas Horton, effectively, in that sense. And so... Was he right?

[00:30:14] I'm still not sure because it doesn't play out the way he thinks it's going to play out from that point onwards. It doesn't, but I just don't think we get to know because with the console being destroyed, then it really ends up with... I mean, I love the fact that she smashes Virgil through the glass table. Oh, yes, absolutely. So good. But after that, we don't really know. I mean, I can understand that in a moment of rage.

[00:30:43] She's been put into this robotic body. And it's given her, yes, a new lease of life. But all of it has been against her will. And all at the same time where he thinks he can just simply pick up where he kind of left off after having betrayed her, her actual work and graft to Tony Stark and Stark Industries. And so that felt very cathartic there.

[00:31:12] I could see that. But ultimately then, she is shot by him. Yes. With adamantium bullets. I'm guessing so. I guess so because it's pretty fatal. Like, she's got holes through her. It's just it's kind of the same effect that Vision had when he was shot with the adamantium bullets. Exactly. By Paladin earlier on the season.

[00:31:39] So I presume he has the same dealer of the adamantium bullets, I guess. No, exactly. So I think I just don't feel we get to know because ultimately the bad things that come from this are spurned by and after the second hug in this moment where she brings back Ultron by throwing the hard drive into the sort of cloud of nanobots.

[00:32:09] It's that Virgil has been kind of showing off to them as to what he is doing because his intention, you know, is for Vision to be his body. Yeah. And his mind into Vision. He joins Jocasta and they rule the world. You know, he says, you've become a goddess and you need a god. And that I'm that person.

[00:32:35] And ultimately Ultron then has gotten his form back. He's no longer a hard drive. And you have this second hug of effectively Ultron holding the dying Jocasta in his arms as she effectively loses her power. Yeah. As she dies. Yeah.

[00:33:01] Which leads to the third and final hug, which I was shocked at how hard they went with this one. Like you have Ultron basically going, well, you know, I would have saved the world if Jocasta was in it, but she's not. So nobody deserves to live. And then walks over and crushes Virgil to death as blood pours out of his eyes. It's kind of like what you think as a kid that you're sort of that one uncle or auntie that gives you a really strong hug is going to do.

[00:33:30] Because you're kind of like, ah! But it's definitely what I call eye popping. I thought it was great. And I'm thinking, oh my goodness, this is just really nicely done. Because it's not like his whole body explodes. No, no. It was just like, it's like he needed windscreen wipers on the inside of his glasses because it's kind of like when you lance an infected wound or something. It's kind of just oozed out. Yeah.

[00:34:00] And I kind of like that. It was kind of like a soft light. Oh, no. But there's also just a tiny little touch at the end when Ultron just throws the lifeless meat sushi across the room. And that is the end of Virgil. Like, what a way to go. Yeah. Bloody hug. I must say, I thought that was, it was unexpected. But also, yes, it's the moment the Jocasta dies.

[00:34:28] Ultron becomes ultra vengeful here. And, you know, he finishes it off after crushing Virgil as, oops, I hortened. Yeah. Which was really good. So good. And he, like, they took her. They want extinction. The end is the only thing they believe in. I'll finish what I started.

[00:34:57] And you kind of get the release of all these millions of nanobots that we saw infect Lisa. Billions. Yeah. Yeah. Or billions, indeed. And this is where you get the great count. I'm misspoken there because he sends out enough nanobots to take out the local centre. But they mentioned that there's about 20 billion of them which could take down the world. So he hasn't sent out billions. He sent out enough to take down the local population centre.

[00:35:26] Is that a local population centre? I don't know, John. It's something like Lindon. Is that something like that? That's the next podcast. That's true. That's back on to Lord of the Rings. But no, it's, you know, the only population centre in all of the UK. London. I must say, I thought, I'm guessing it's just because there's the week break or something.

[00:35:49] But just because the previous episode, you know, they flew into London and Horton Hall was just outside of London. It felt like they had to sort of retell people that they were close to London. But it was just the way, it just felt a bit weird to me. But anyway, it doesn't matter that much.

[00:36:17] Well, do you know what also felt a little bit weird? I'm not a huge geography nerd. John here is a doctor of geographies. I'm sure Rector's had even more than it did mine. But as they say, it's closing in throughout the countdown where it's like five miles. It's like five miles to the centre of London. That's like about a billion people that live within five miles of the centre of London. Have none of the nanobots accomplished their job? Are they supposed to arrive at the centre of London and then find their way to the underground or something? Is that the plan? Exactly.

[00:36:46] Because he says, you know, he sends the nanobots to London, like, to kill. They've basically gone through Wembley and sort of north of Greater London. I guess so. And in fact, actually, even before they are cancelled and sort of destroyed, they're in amongst Tower Bridge. Oh, yeah. So, like, they're well into London. And I'm thinking, surely they're all infecting people right now. Yeah. So... I think his command was something like, and, you know, kill them.

[00:37:15] Like, it wasn't very definitive. So maybe he was giving an opportunity for a discussion. Maybe that's what it was. But I think it's more Edith's scene there when she comes in and is like, oh, that will be London. It felt like that was totally unnecessary. Well, yeah. But anyway... So, yes, I think we talked about this separately, so we'll say it on the podcast as well. What I think more than likely happened, we've got a lot of British cast members on here as well.

[00:37:41] We've got Welsh people, we've got Scottish people, and we've got English people involved in the show actually there. I think they probably did have another population centre like Manchester, Liverpool, or Birmingham or somewhere in the UK that they were going to say. And somebody behind the scenes went, nobody outside of England cares if it's not London. Change it to London. So they brought Edith into that special room where they record the dialogue to help along the audience. I think that's all it was. It's just one of those things.

[00:38:11] You just expect any other city in England would be fine for this conversation. The other thing I found really hilarious unintentionally in this kind of point within the episode, and I know that Tommy has only just done this speed stir sort of fast movement once here. It's the first time he's done it, but it does look like he's had about 20 cigarettes after he's like huffing and puffing.

[00:38:41] I mean, it's like I would be if I did the 100 metres now. Let's say 1,000 metres. You can do 100 metres. He was so out of breath. I was like, I get it. It's the first time he's kind of employed his speed stir ability for fast running or cool runnings.

[00:39:03] And yeah, but it's just the aftermath of that where he's kind of like, I haven't got the energy to do something else to get killed. The nanobots or whatever. Yeah. So yeah, I just felt, yeah, it's like he's gone through a duty free packet of cigarettes or something. I would say in fairness, they do add a line on the line of dialogue.

[00:39:29] The first thing he says to Vision is this is really difficult when you haven't carved up. So he hasn't eaten the carbs that he would need to eat, which is actually from The Flash. He hasn't eaten the carbs that he'd need to to do this. And they're keeping him talking with this argument between Vision and him. You mentioned it earlier on, but it is really funny. The whole thing is back to Vision saying I can't put up with teenagers. He tells Tommy to do something and Tommy goes, I have a better idea. And he goes, you never listened to me. He goes, I did hear you.

[00:39:59] Until Jocasta comes in and goes, no, you need to listen to your father and do what you need to do. So I know what you mean. Afterwards, he is absolutely wrecked. He will learn how to do it better. People on the internet have pointed out that when you see this slowed down version of the conversation, really, when Vision's talking to him, what he's actually doing in his version of running around the table, he's jogging around the table. He's not running like Quicksilver or running like the two versions of Quicksilver. He's jogging around the table.

[00:40:24] So this is not speed at full speed when he's going round and round as fast as he is. So in the future, we could see speed Tommy doing a much faster version of this when he's learned to use his powers. But I do think it's really funny that he's like, God, I can't do anything. Sorry, I can't help. It's not a criticism. I actually, because there's so many good moments of humor in this episode, like after

[00:40:50] Ultron squeezing Virgil like a blood orange, it's like, you know, and he goes, oops, I haughtened. That's hilarious in a dark sense of humor. I think this too, whether it's intentional or not, given the early stage in his abilities, it's just really funny because as well, he's as thin as a rake.

[00:41:19] So you're kind of like going, he must be a healthy guy. And he's like, Iggy Pop has been thin for almost 80 years, John. And I wouldn't call him a healthy kind of guy. He's still alive. He's still alive. Absolutely. With that and with our client dead and a brand new, well, not brand new, a very old villain taken up at center stage after hugs for everyone.

[00:41:47] They need to deal with that threat now, don't they? Will we go on to our code line three, John? Yes. Let's get on to code line number three. Ultra Vision, Ultra Vision. Don't kill the world. Don't kill the world. Ultra Vision's theme song being, including the lines, please don't kill the world. I just think it's hilarious.

[00:42:12] So yes, Vision and Edith working together to create a simulation, which will encourage Ultron to think about what he's doing based on the fact that he's just lost the person that he loves and has to deal with his grief. If there's anything more WandaVision or Agatha all along than someone having to deal with grief to get over their problem that could kill the world, I don't know what it is. This is perfect. And even what Vision has just gone through. Yes.

[00:42:38] I love the fact that he's having to synchronize their emotional processes to try and change his mind effectively here. And it goes into Ultra Vision. I just think this is like WandaVision happening in a nutshell. I really, really enjoyed just the look of James Spade's face throughout all of this, which

[00:43:08] was kind of like, I don't care. I think he starts off with what the F as it starts up. He's totally aware of his predicament. I love that the audience laugh track is effectively absolutely off because I love the fact that we have the morality metaphor up front from Vision around he's killed Edith's goldfish and what should he do?

[00:43:38] Should he tell her or should he sort of buy another one and pretend? And he's like, she comes in and he's trying to hide the sort of goldfish bowl. And the audience is laughing all the time whilst he's saying this. And then James Spader just looks up and goes, Sparkles is dead. Roll credits. And you've got the audience laughing at this.

[00:44:03] The nice point that you picked out with Ultron is down as the editor on this, which makes this point where he looks to the camera and says, Sparkles is dead. Roll credits. Really, really good. Well, even more fun, the way they did it was they have created or executive producers effectively Vision, Edith, and then it goes edited by Vision and flashes and changes to edited by Ultron. So he's saying, I'm taking over.

[00:44:31] And that's when he does start to take over the show. And some of the ideas of this are great where he starts to bring in people from the outside. He can feel through the nanobots outside. He can feel all the rest of the cast of the show there in the room and starts to bring them in. We have Paul Dennings coming in. Paladin comes in as the neighbor. We have Lisa coming in as the chimney sweep urchin because she's an orphan. I just think that's hilarious where he's like, is that a little too Dickensian for this?

[00:45:01] And then he brings in Tommy Speed as his grandson. And Tommy's line as he walks in going, I just ran over the neighbor's cat and stuffed the body in the chimney. It's just hilarious. And then even Ultron's going, maybe that was a bit too dark. We're going to get bumped to 10 o'clock. We're going to get bumped to 10 o'clock. It's just really good. And we have Dummy and you coming in. They both get full names. You is called useless in this scene as well.

[00:45:28] And we have the wonderful moment where we have the return of Friday, who reveals that actually Ultron threw her out of Jocasta's mind to save her. And now she's back to help Vision and Edith. But is introduced with the line from Edith going, thank God it's Friday. I know, it was so good. I must say, although it did remind me of one of the most traumatic ordering experiences in TGI Fridays ever, where I was asking for a Caprinha. Caprinha.

[00:45:58] Exactly. Caprinha. I think one drink took about 20 minutes to order just because I was brought into this conversation with the waiter and how I was pronouncing Caprinha. You're like, I just want my drink now, please. Yeah, no, agreed. I just have a vodka and Coke. Yeah, exactly. Can I change it to a quadruple vodka and Coke, please? Ah, yes. TGI Fs. Absolutely.

[00:46:26] And I do love, he has a great reference because he says, I'm going off now to go to the toilet for an old scheisser. And I love the fact he comes back. Excellent reference to the crude toilet humor of the 90s. Proudly lowbrow, defiantly undignified. Which I think we should use as the tagline for our podcast. I think that's a pretty good one. I think that would be quite good. That's pretty excellent, actually.

[00:46:53] I like to be proudly lowbrow and defiantly undignified. And after doing that and taking the wind out of the wholesome sitcom that was trying to be created multiple times, he then kills the studio audience. I just love that it turns from laughter into just these screams. And Edith looking out at what she can probably see is the fake studio audience all dying at the hands of Ultron. I just think this is really well realized.

[00:47:20] They do it, again, like they did earlier on in the season. They do it in this really small way. They're not representing a specific sitcom coming out of Vision's mind here. They've literally relocated it back to the loft. It's exactly the same set that we've used multiple times. But it's just done incredibly well to use everything you possibly can in the scene. It ends off there are literally hundreds of episodes of the show trying to convince Ultron to change his mind about killing the world.

[00:47:48] It goes on and on and on again, bringing in all the rest of Vision's family and the people that are involved in the crew, effectively, until he pushes everybody out. Vision is left alone with Ultron on the couch. The lights are starting to dim. A little heart to heart. Yeah. And Ultron realizes the only way he's been able to keep the simulation alive is because, effectively, he's tagged into the nanobots. Yes.

[00:48:19] Vision's been synchronizing the processors and he's kind of like, ooh, checkmate, you know, when he realizes because you have Ultron saying, so your plan was to process it before your core processor burnt out, you know, able to do this. And then he realizes that it's both of their processors, Ultron's and Vision's, that are

[00:48:44] effectively, symbolically being the heater and the boiler that's going up in flames here. Yeah. Which I thought was really good. Really well realized. And then the final conversation, which effectively gets to the heart of it. Ultron tells Vision, grief is fear. And Vision, admittedly, he agrees. He tells Ultron that that is exactly what grief is. It's fear of being left alone.

[00:49:15] Which is how Ultron has spent the last six years alone up in that attic. And he doesn't want to go back to that. He's afraid that now that he's lost Jocasta, that he's going to be alone forever. And then he says, well, that's what humans are like. They deserve to die. It's just putting them out of their misery, basically. And we get a wonderful Vision speech talking about love always leads to loss. Someone will die.

[00:49:41] Which reminds Ultron of Vision on his first ever meeting where Vision told him things aren't beautiful because they last forever. They're beautiful because they do eventually die. Which has that moment that he's remembering it because it mattered to him. Yeah, exactly. And I think there's that great final line from Vision where he says, I couldn't process this

[00:50:05] alone as you have Ultron saying, you didn't just burn out your processor, you toasted mine as well. Ultimately, that was his plan. And again, I needed to process this with you because, you know. The two meanings of processing, yes. Exactly. Which I thought was really, really good.

[00:50:29] And, you know, this kind of self-destructs the nanoswarm that's heading over to London and probably should have killed sort of three quarters of it at this stage. But nonetheless, everyone survives. Everyone is saved. Yes. But also because Vision uses one of the things that's meant something really important to him. What Tommy said to him back in episode two or episode three.

[00:50:57] What Tommy said to Vision, you may not be my father, but you are my something. And Vision's now saying that to Ultron. It gets through to Ultron. And finally, and Ultron releases control of the nanobots and allows them to die and burn out as well. So it's not just the simulation burning them out. It's also that Ultron releases the control on there because of, you know, the journey that Vision's been on, right? So that's the important part of the episode. You know, this episode is full of amazing writing.

[00:51:26] We didn't get to mention it about Edith saving Paladin at the beginning of the episode. But it's just so well written from Terry Vitalis. I really do love what he's done here. The scene where Edith is talking to Paladin is so full of a computer translating what she understands about the world into something that a human might understand. Where Paladin says to her, you know, thanks for the save, but I'm out of here. I'm too old to change.

[00:51:52] And she says, but without updates, we're obsolete, encouraging him to change and become different. You know, we had learned earlier on in the season that he kept an AI off the internet without any updates at all. And that's what led to a failure, effectively. Now he has Edith, who's encouraging him to become stronger, to embrace the new. And by the end of the episode, he actually has a new daughter. He has Lisa on board. She is working with him.

[00:52:21] So the orphan has found a new father figure, effectively. And Tommy is confirmed as her boyfriend as well. Yeah. Yeah. And not only does he have a new daughter, but he has a new sort of logo for the Paladin plane, which is a prancing unicorn over a rainbow. So why not? Absolutely. I fixed it for you, says he. Why not? She's so jolly and happy. I'm surprised they were still allowed to wear their black leather jackets. Thank God they haven't been purchased by Skydancers. Let's just say that.

[00:52:51] That would have been banned straight away. Uh-huh. Absolutely. Oh, dear me. Anyway, yes. But of course, Vision is compromised and Tommy tries to kind of resuscitate him with his vibrating hands that he used on him previously in the swimming pool. Yeah. But he can't do it alone. And I like the fact that you just kind of get this purpley glow as Billy comes to the rescue.

[00:53:16] And then, again, we have some final hugs because we have Tommy hugging his resuscitated, rebooted, I should say, Vision. And I like the fact here that the choice made is you have Billy going in with the handshake and Vision effectively pulling him in and hugging him as well and him saying, my boys. Oh, so good. You know, it was just really, really good.

[00:53:45] I thought it was an excellent little moment here. It's amazing, isn't it? Like, I really enjoyed Joe Locke as Billy in Agatha all along, but I didn't realize how connected I am to this family getting back together. It's always a bit of a brutal moment when that happens, a reunion happens on TV shows. John will attest that that usually brings the tears to me, whether it's a reality show or a comedy show when families get back together. It always brings the tears.

[00:54:12] But I thought it was a really emotionally well done scene here. They wrung every bit of tears out to be watching it. So I thought it was absolutely fabulous. Well done, Joe Locke, for coming back for just those two scenes. It was fab. And yeah, we have a little moment right at the end as Tommy gets his first use for free of the Paladin aircraft to bring him over to New York. He has a quick chat with his father in the final moment in the Mind Palace, saying they're

[00:54:38] off to Eastview, where William Kaplan's from, of course, as we learned in Agatha all along. So Billy is still living in and around that area. So they're going to go there for dinner. Very close to Westview. Absolutely. Where it all began for them, yeah. I like this little moment where Tommy asks, you know, is it possible that they will find Wanda? And Vision says, well, we said goodbye. So it's possible that we may say hello again at some point.

[00:55:06] Which I really liked how that was just delivered here. Yeah. And of course... It was a line from the end of WandaVision when he was disappearing. That's where he said to Wanda. So yeah. And of course, when we were watching the screen, it didn't have that second post-credit. So yeah, that was kind of interesting because obviously we see the post-credit where like, ooh, you might be saying hello sooner than you thought.

[00:55:33] Oh, I really hope that they do take this on, take this forward. You know, it's been doing the rounds quite a lot about how successful WandaVision was for MCU on television, how popular it was, that nothing could hold a candle to it in terms of all the rest of the shows they created. Then Agatha all along was a massive surprise hit. I think it did significantly better than they thought it was going to do, given how low the budget was on it.

[00:56:00] And this show has been massively successful for them in terms of reviews and ratings, certainly. So I hope we will have a moment where we have this family, Vision, Tommy, Billy, back in some way to convince Wanda to go away from the potential of what's going to happen here. Let's quickly talk about it because there's not too much to it. It's a quick moment.

[00:56:25] It's following the scene in Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness where Mount WandaGore comes down and crushes Wanda. That was the last time we saw her. Vision had mentioned it multiple times during the season that she was crushed under a mountain. A weight of her own emotion. Well, that was the inferred. But we have Doom arriving, lifting up the mountain and saying he is going to take her power. And we see her eyes open again.

[00:56:55] Yes, absolutely. It's really interesting. It's funny, though, because it is this cloaked figure and you see the hands of gesturing and levitating the rocks off the body of Wanda. Yeah. I just felt the voice sounded like the Red Skull from Vermeer. Right, yeah. It might not be Robert Downey Jr.'s voice, potentially.

[00:57:20] Or his Latverian accent is off again. I think it's possible that they hired Wasmur Kwan to do another voice in the MCU. He's done tons of them now, including Red Skull, as you mentioned from Avengers Endgame. He replaced the voice there and did the voice of Red Skull. So that's entirely possible. I remember we were saying to the feedback, there's no way they were getting Robert Downey Jr. to do this.

[00:57:47] But I do feel just the reason why it sounds a little off, I think, is because that particular line of dialogue may not appear in Doomsday. But this scene will have to appear in Doomsday. You'll have to have Doom arriving and bringing Scarlet Witch back. You know, it'll have to be there. And I just think the actual dialogue that's there is written for a 10-second post-credit scene of a series to get you ready for Doomsday, but you're not going to see this particular scene. So they may not have had Robert Downey Jr. record that line.

[00:58:15] They may have had Ross Morcon just substitute the dialogue. Yeah, I mean, it's not a criticism. I mean, when I first saw it, I didn't at all think anything of it. I think it was like around the second or third time that I watched it. And I was like, oh, it feels like Red Skull in terms of the intonation of it. And again, that could just be completely way off. And either way, it doesn't matter. I mean, I'd love to see the Red Skull back.

[00:58:45] I would think that would be so cool if we saw the Red Skull back after his appearance in Captain America First Avenger, then disappearing for almost 20 years, appearing on another planet in Endgame. And I would love if they went, you know what? We'll bring him back for Doomsday as well. Why not? It's Red Skull. Why not? You know, finally, Captain America's main antagonist is back on Earth for one final battle on the side of Doom. That would be cool.

[00:59:12] But the other post-credit scene that's there shows us Ultron's still alive. We'd heard that just before the credits. He made a phone call to Vision to try to surprise him. And I love that Vision goes, hi, Ultron, knowing that he got away. And he's still coin flipping. I do like the fact he says, well, I think I might take in the Louvre or the Met, see what chaos it brings or burn everything to ash. It's 50-50. It's a coin flip.

[00:59:39] You're like, is Vision right to leave him out there in the world if he's still coin flipping? Like, he's very powerful. You know, and he's now got a nanobot body, which means he can be whoever he wants to be. And he chooses, in the portrait scene we see, he chooses to take on the look of Virgil. Yes. With no hair, which I thought was really good. So we started out slagging off his massive beard that he had. But then when we saw Virgil, the last episode we talked about the terrible waxed mustache that

[01:00:08] Virgil had. This time he has, looks like no hair in his head or facial hair either. He looks a bit more like the metal Ultron because he has no facial hair there. Yes. Exactly. But he's spinning in his hands the chip of Jocasta once again. So he's making a choice whether he will live out his life alone in Horton Hall, looking like Virgil is what I think is happening. So the rest of the world will see him as Virgil.

[01:00:37] He could live out the rest of his life as a billionaire here. And he's wondering whether to live it out alone or whether he recreates Jocasta and brings her back. Exactly. Interesting. Yeah. No, I thought it was good that. Because I think Tania Miller here is just superb as Jocasta. I love Andrew Carrington. Yeah. Really enjoyed her character. I love her in most, if not all the things that she's in for me, whether it's in The Haunting of Bly Manor.

[01:01:06] You know, I've just always enjoyed her performances. So I'm hoping he kind of chooses to spend eternity with Jocasta. Yes. We absolutely could see them back if they want to. They're on the chessboard for the MCU to play with. Indeed. How about that? Yeah, exactly. But yeah, good stuff. Any notes, Derek, for this episode? Thousands, hundreds and hundreds of thousands.

[01:01:35] But I want to get on to our feedback to discuss some of them. Do you have any big notes you want to talk about, John? No, no notes for me. Excellent. Well, I think with that then, John, do you defend Vision Quest Episode 8 forever? I absolutely do defend this episode of Vision Quest forever. I would give it five didactic duty delights out of five. Excellent. Yes. I mean, to me, this is the cherry on top for the series.

[01:02:05] I've just really enjoyed this final episode. I just love everything about it. There's kind of reveal behind the curtain of Oz being Virgil. Yes, both terrifying still, but also slightly emasculated by the revulsion that Jocosta has. Some excellent moments here. I think the dancing between James Spader and Tania Miller.

[01:02:32] Just superb little bit of comedy here in amongst all of this, followed by the dark comedy of the big bloody hug from Ultron to Virgil. Followed by the potentially unintentional funny moment of Tommy breathing like a 70-year-old after smoking 200 Regal from the 1980s.

[01:03:01] I can't help out with the nanobots. I'm having a fag. Just really, really good. Yeah, I mean, I loved all of this moving through. I loved that they did WandaVision in a nutshell with UltraVision. I thought the ending of that personal heart-to-heart between Vision and Ultron, absolutely superb.

[01:03:27] And actually epitomizes the real deep level of writing at a humorous level, at an emotional and a heartfelt level that this show has had all the way through it. So absolutely loved all that. Plus, yeah, two post-credit scenes, one walking us into doomsday. So absolutely really do defend this episode of Vision Quest

[01:03:54] with five didactic duty delights out of five. And yes, I guess if I were to do a note, it would be the fact that you does say duty instead of duty. Honestly, that scene made me laugh every single time because it felt like something out of the Goes Wrong show where Dummy went, we are reporting for duty, and then just goes, no.

[01:04:21] And in the background, you just hear you going duty. It just made me laugh every time. It's very funny. It felt like something. Yeah, absolutely. Out of that show or into like hot fuzz. It was just real playground humor. It was, yes. It was brilliant. Absolutely. Derek, do you defend Vision Quest episode eight forever? I do defend Vision Quest forever.

[01:04:48] I really loved how this story ended the trilogy that is WandaVision, Agathol along, and Vision Quest. I think it worked really well. And to that end, the writing really speaks to that. Literally at the beginning of the episode when Virgil is explaining his part, he says to Vision, you are the last part of an old story and the first part of a new one.

[01:05:12] Now we can move on in the world with a new Vision out in the MCU with his family, accepting who he is. And it's a really strong story that's been told across the course of these three seasons. Loved it. What a way to end what's been the longest tale in Marvel TV. And all we have left in Marvel TV, as far as we know, is Daredevil Born Again, which has always kind of stood out in its own. So this could be literally the end of Marvel TV as we know it right now. Yeah, absolutely.

[01:05:42] I know we have the potential new spy show that's coming up, maybe, but that's being developed. And What If is under the animation banner, isn't it really? Yeah. The Marvel Zombies, the other three Marvel Zombie shows. Yeah, but there's no announced shows. But that's part of, you know, Cleaning House as they get into Doomsday and Secret Wars. Once those are over, I'm sure there'll be brand new plans for another 10 or 15 years of movies and TV shows. But this one was a great way to go out.

[01:06:10] And I am so excited again to get back to the cinema in just over a month's time for a Doomsday film. I know, absolutely. Awesome. But I think with that, let's get back to the old pub, the old Salkey, in fact, for the final question in this series pub quiz. So fellow defenders, fellow quizzers, hold on to those hats of yours. This is going to be a roller coaster ride.

[01:06:37] Here is question eight from this final episode. What very special episode of the UltraVision sitcom introduces the new cast members? That's supposed to be a really easy question because it's the final question of the eight questions for the season. So don't think about it too hard. It's very clear what episode we're talking about. John, do you want to get the question one more time?

[01:07:03] Yes. What very special episode of the UltraVision sitcom introduces the new cast members? Fantastic. That's the eighth question of eight. Pop on over to the website at tvpodcastindustries.com for all the questions. If you've missed any of them, they're all up there. Then email us in to feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com and you can be able to get your hands on some Vision Quest goodies. We have the Funko Pops of Vision and Ultron in our house right now. So maybe you'll be able to get your hands on those. Yes, absolutely.

[01:07:33] Shall we move on to feedback? Yes, please. First up, we have some feedback on Discord that we missed for episode seven because we recorded a little bit early. Paul Lee says, We got to see Paul Bettany act opposite two of himself. But seriously, some very nice work there distinguishing three characters with the same face. And now we know where Ultron got his avatar from. And my guess is that the shotgun holding James Spader is the grandson of Phineas Horton via his daughter Victoria, who conveniently swiped Papa's notebook before leaving for New York with her mother.

[01:08:02] I can't wait to see how the story resolves next week. I think Ultron released Friday into the internet and she'll be an important part of how Vision gets out of his captivity. Oh, great speculation there, Paul. Yeah, thanks very much, Paul. Certainly good speculation there around Virgil being the grandson. And actually, Friday wasn't really instrumental though in the end, but there was a good gag.

[01:08:31] Yeah, and she's free and she's out there and she got to tell Vision that she's proud of him, that he's changed and she's happy that she doesn't have to guide him through life anymore. Now that he's recovered who he is. Exactly. So you're absolutely right that he did release her. It wasn't kind of like killing her. So that's a good call. And ultimately, I do like the gag that she was welcomed into the sitcom with. Thank God it's Friday. Absolutely. Yeah, great to see that. Great stuff. Thanks so much, Paul.

[01:09:00] I know we have your thoughts on episode eight as well. But next up, Dr. Bob has his thoughts on episode seven. Yes, Dr. Bob says, Very nice to see Bettany being given a space to really show off his acting skills with three characters, a full range of emotions and a satisfying therapeutic breakthrough. The power to get those feelings back was within you all along, tin man.

[01:09:21] Hairy Vision throwing Friday off the balcony was a bit of a shock, to be honest, but not quite as much as seeing just how some people, yes, you, James Spader, do not suit a mustache. Movember be damned. There aren't many who wear one well, and we should be judging those who don't loudly. Absolutely.

[01:09:44] I mean, if I were to wear one, it would be kind of one of those thin pencil ones that you would see in sort of, I don't know, 1970s movies of kind of Central America where the general has a really thin mustache. It'd be awful. I think maybe that or that kind of sounds a little bit like who's the head of the household in the Addams family? Morticia's husband? Yeah, exactly. That kind of mustache.

[01:10:15] Very cool. I can't say Movember be damned. I'm a big supporter of Movember, particularly because it looks awful. And that's kind of the point. And some of the people involved in setting it up, that was kind of the point of it, that mustaches look absolutely terrible. You're doing it for charity for 30 days. And I know a lot of people who do it shave it off on the final day and never, ever do a mustache again. Like myself, John. I know.

[01:10:40] As I realize I have a ginger mustache and I had dark hair at the time, it doesn't work. Yeah, mine doesn't grow in time, ultimately. I need Mech, Semba and Manuary to get mine going. Yeah, maybe by the start of Easter you might have one. Although, as a gay man, maybe we can start up something called Manuary. A married gay man, John. A married gay man. Excellent stuff.

[01:11:10] Thanks so much for your feedback on episode 7, Dr. Bob. Let's move on to some episode 8 feedback. Yes. On Discord, Paolo says, Ah, a very satisfying finale to this excellent show. Thank God I watched first thing this morning as the moment I sat down on the bus, a girl behind me proceeded to spoil the second post-credits scene. Oh, wow. Overall, it was a very tidy conclusion.

[01:11:34] Happy to see Ultron having an ultra-flexible body and the capacity to recreate Chocasta. I thought her dispatch was a bit too much, and Ultron fusion with the Nanoswarm very far-fetched. But hey, it's sci-fi fantasy. What do I know? The family theme and the reunion with Billy was lovely, and the return of the sitcom format was great. But I didn't feel that the threat to London had much tension. You knew it was going to happen from the start.

[01:12:02] Didn't feed back on this after the opening because of timing issues, but enjoyed your coverage and analysis very much. Thank you. Five out of five hats. Excellent, Paolo. Great stuff. Is that for our podcast, Paolo, or for the episode? I think both. It's for both. We'll say both. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, about the nanobots creating the body of Ultron. I thought it was far-fetched,

[01:12:32] and then I just realized that that's the glove that Tony has in Endgame, that he creates to hold the stones and does his snap to restore everything to life. That's nanobots. That's what nanobots do in the MCU. They basically can create absolutely anything that's within your mind. And Tony showed that multiple times over and over again. Like, yeah, okay, it's definitely a sci-fi show in this time. But if it can do that, it can definitely create the body of Ultron,

[01:13:00] which has been around for quite a long time. So it does kind of make sense in that context as well, doesn't it? Absolutely. And I'm totally with you around the threat to London, even though I was thinking, well, the threats happened. I actually think they failed. That's the problem. Because it's like, it's reached the suburbs. Well, no one lives in the suburbs. And then it was like, it's coming into the outskirts of the city. They've been given an order to kill.

[01:13:30] And it's not like they're going to hover over everyone in London and then do it simultaneously. So weirdly, there should be some huge fallout from the fact that half of London has died, I think. But alas, yes, you're right. I think it wasn't handled particularly well, I would think. Maybe they're using Google Maps to find the population centre and send them to the central business district or something. Maybe that's what it is. It's just poor mapage.

[01:13:57] They were going for the square mile of the city of London. That was it. Yes. Go to the population centre. The nearest population centre. Oh, it must be London. So, yeah, totally with you on the threat level faced by London with the nanobots for sure, Paolo. Great stuff. Thanks, Paolo, for your feedback. Thanks so much. Paul Lee has his thoughts on episode 8 as well. He said that was maybe the most satisfying season conclusion of all the MCU shows, excepting Daredevil Born Again and Wonder Man

[01:14:27] because I'm still not caught up in those shows. Great to get Joe Locke back, though all too briefly. Seems like good odds Vision and the boys will show up in Doomsday to try and rescue Wanda. I suspect that you are my something and James Spader's rhinestone cowboy dance will be the most memeable things from this show. Excellent, Paul. Yeah, I wonder if James Spader's rhinestone cowboy dance will be up there with Baron Zemo's dance from Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Well, it should be. Which got the dance that he did

[01:14:56] got more views than Falcon and the Winter Soldier got on Disney Plus because that one dance was going around for months, wasn't it? So, yeah, let's hope that rhinestone dance and that cowboy dance gets going. That'd be great. Good stuff. Excellent. Thanks, Paul. Yeah, not sure if the boys on Vision will show up in Doomsday. It might be for Secret Wars next year, but not too sure. But at least there's a possibility they will appear again in the MCU. They have said goodbye before. That's true. And actually, Paul,

[01:15:25] before we finally say thank you, definitely get on to see Wonder Man. That would be a high recommend for me. Definitely, yeah. Wonder Man is great. It's quick, too. Yeah, it is. It's quick, but it does have one of my favourite episodes from TV. Fan footage, episode five, I just thought was phenomenally good, snappy TV. It was very fun. Which was also really funny.

[01:15:55] And, of course, if you absolutely adore the characters, then definitely get on to watch Wonder Man. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks, Paul. Thanks, Paul. We also got an email in from Coffee and Vodka, who says, Greetings, fellow out-of-mind defenders. Definitely requires another watch or three, but from the one can call this a great ending to officially the best season of the trilogy. Coming full circle,

[01:16:22] taking in a bit of Billy Magic and WandaVision sitcom, all the while providing a perfectly planned techie solution to the dissolution of old London town. As for my concerns over Ultron's identity, it appears he shared them, decisively haughtening his so-called progenitor. So, faith in Terry, Metallus fully restored. I enjoyed the first of the post-credits scenes, as it was obviously Metallus. The second seemed like a trailer for Doomsday,

[01:16:51] directed by the Russo brothers. It was nice to be wrong about the deaths of Friday and Paladin. As well, it took a whole season, but Tommy Boy finally came into his own identity with this episode, meeting up with Billy and reluctantly saving the day. Finally, here's to hoping to see more of Ultron and Dracaster in future projects. Not sure when we'll see another Marvel TV production, but this, for now, was one hell of a send-off.

[01:17:20] Five homicidal hugs, brotherly bath times, and Chekhov's notebooks out of five. Peace and take care. Coffee and vodka. For having coffee and vodka, thank you so much for your feedback. I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as we did. What a great ending to the series. Really, really good. Yeah, I kind of have a feeling now, after seeing this final episode, that that scene where I was kind of joking about how badly it was done with the little girl taking the notebook, that Phineas Horton had been, you know, eyeing constantly that there's no way she could possibly take it.

[01:17:50] I think that had to just be dropped in there because people mightn't have got that his grandson would get the notebook if his wife and daughter moved to America, you know? So I think it just had to be really clearly put out there that she took the notebook so it passed down to her son in the future. Yes. You know, because how else would he possibly get that notebook, you know? So I kind of see why that would be Chekhov's notebook, right? Yes, absolutely. Thanks so much, Coffee and Vodka. Yeah, great stuff. Thanks, Coffee and Vodka.

[01:18:19] Over on Facebook, Denise Lardy says, no words, five billion nanobots out of five for me. Excellent stuff, Denise. And Heather Wallace says, I had the subtitles on for the episode when Ultron killed Virgil. The caption read, squelch. Very visceral. I'm very glad Paladin wasn't dead and joined Team Vision, even partnering with Edith at the end in a business venture. Tommy's slow jog around the dining table made me laugh for some reason. I wonder how many takes they had to do. Each week, the music has been important

[01:18:48] and those few bars of The Last Farewell in Episode 1 set up the finale, although it seems the Vision family will be saying hello to Wanda again, hopefully. Yes. Great stuff. Thanks, Heather. But yes, I really enjoyed the slow jog around the table as well. It was really, really good. I think it's also why when he was like, I'm knackered, like I haven't got the energy to sort of do anything else. That's what made me laugh because it was like, you've been slow jogging.

[01:19:18] Well, yes. It's because it's in nanoscale. So yes. But it's also quite a fun way to do it. Yes, it is. Again, they've done Quicksilver in the MCU. They've done Quicksilver in the X-Men universe multiple times as well. And they've done, you know, 95 seasons of The Flash TV show and that terrible Flash movie. They've done loads of versions in the world. And to have Tommy's version of it be him doing a really slow jog. Absolutely. As Vision slows down his mind

[01:19:48] and joins up, or speeds up his mind, sorry, to catch him. I think that's just a really fun way of jogging. It is. It's superb. And really cheap, like, yeah, obviously. But it's great. Absolutely. And I think squelch is the perfect adjective for describing what happens to old Virgil. Definitely. So yeah, I think I'll have to have the captions on next time I watch this. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks, Heather, for your feedback. Yeah, thanks so much, Heather. Drew Wally says,

[01:20:17] What a fantastic ride and tie into all things Vision. The boys in Viz reunited and a glimmer of hope for Ultron. Maybe. Maybe. Fun to see the team spread its wings. Coat of Arms teams up with Paladin for new adventures. Loved all the AIs personified and poor Jarvis gone too soon. Final post-credits scenes seem to affirm speculation about Doom's magic users in upcoming films. The throwback to WandaVision with UltraVision for the finale

[01:20:46] was also a nice touch. Tried hard, but couldn't quite make out all of those episode titles. Personal note, I picked up this comic at a comic show now probably 35 years ago for $65, mainly because I loved the cover art and always enjoyed the Vision in Marvel comics, probably much later in West Coast Avengers with Wanda. Thought I'd share for other comics and Vision fans alike. It sat in a Milo bag with backer board for years

[01:21:16] and finally sent it to CGC five years ago. Thrilled to still have this book in my collection. Fantastic, Drew. Just because you can't see the image, it is an eight-level graded issue 87 of The Avengers, the first appearance of Vision, and it's fantastic. Yes. That is so cool, Drew. So good. Yeah, great to have that in collection. I think, you know, I'm a comic book collector myself and none of my comics are worth anything, but they are worth something to me

[01:21:45] because they all feature Nick Fury. So I know what it feels like to have a comic of a character that you love, the first appearance of a character you love. So that's really cool that you have that. And it's such good quality. That's really cool. Yeah, absolutely. I'm really glad you enjoyed this final and fantastic ride with all things Vision. Especially being a big fan of us, yeah. Absolutely. And certainly some of those hundreds of episode titles that were flashing through,

[01:22:13] there were some really good ones. Oh yeah, the writers are having so much fun. Just overall, most of them were references to other sitcoms. That seemed to be a good theme. There was lots of references to Star Trek in there as well, of course, because Terry Metallus is a huge Star Trek fan. I'm sure he's going to be in the running for a new Star Trek show or movie in the future. Yes. Some that I did sort of nerdily sort of flick through and enjoyed were, along with Derek,

[01:22:42] was Third Data Port from the Sun. Like that. Used to love Third Rock from the Sun. It's Always Sunny in the Mind Space. Malware in the Middle. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, fans, which is where we got a lot of our directors and writers for the Marvel Universe came through there as well. Malware in the Middle. That's great, yeah. Parts and Recreation, which was very good. Only Murders in the Mindscape. Very good. Synth and the City.

[01:23:10] Call me by your username. Resistance is funny. Everybody loves Vision. So yeah, there were a few that we picked out. Loads and loads of opportunities and definitely worth pausing to catch a couple of interesting ones there. Yes. Flying through those different episode numbers. And they just get faster and faster as the hundreds of episodes go past. Great stuff. Thanks so much for your feedback, Drew. Thanks for watching along with us. Great to hear from you on this final episode.

[01:23:40] Yeah, thanks, Drew. We also have a little bit of feedback that sneaked in onto our Discord while we were recording Richard Blaze. Well done. He says, Flippin' heck. What a way to end the show. There were laughs, gasps, shocks, awe, and plenty of tears. I feel that this was the most satisfying of the three shows and excelled in its writing and acting. I'm so glad Ultron is still around to cause mischief. He really embodies an old-fashioned true bad guy. I can't really put in words how much I have thoroughly enjoyed this from start to end.

[01:24:09] The magic of these shows will be missed. But the post-credits scene, goddammit, my Alfie was right about Wanda. He's not going to stop banging on about it. Ah, fantastic, Richard. You see, the show also brings together father and sons to get one up on each other. One up on ship. Yeah, exactly. It's fantastic. Great stuff, Richard. Thanks so much for getting that feedback in. Yeah, definitely. I'm glad you enjoyed the magic of this show. That's kind of the theme of the three shows, isn't it? The magic that's there

[01:24:39] in the MCU when you get the right writers and right cast together for them. Yes, absolutely. Brilliant stuff. Thank you so much to everybody for your feedback. You still have time if you want to share any feedback on the series of Vision Quest to email us at feedback at tvpodcastindustries.com. When we do our wrap-up, we usually just have a quick chat about any other feedback that we've gotten, so we'd love to hear from you over there. Also use that email address to send in your answers to the Vision Quest pub quiz to be in with a chance of getting your hands

[01:25:08] on those Vision Quest goodies. Yes, absolutely. Get in there, fellow quizzes and fellow defenders. Yeah. One thing I did put out to our wonderful fellow defenders earlier on in the season was if you could just give us a couple of reviews on Apple Podcasts because we were at 99 reviews and we've been at 99 reviews for about four or five years and I was delighted to see that both Jersey Girl 007 and Kalia gave us five-star reviews on the 3rd of November, finally pushing us

[01:25:37] over that 100 reviews mark. Lovely stuff. Thank you so much. Lovely stuff. Jersey Girl 007 gave us five stars saying, great and unique podcast for fun shows. I found TV podcast industries during their Umbrella Academy coverage and have continued listening to them ever since. They're fun and I really enjoyed how they break down the episodes and their perspective. Highly recommend. Lovely. Thank you so much, Jersey Girl 007. Glad you found us and stayed on after the Umbrella Academy. That's always nice to hear.

[01:26:06] And Kalia said, love you guys. I wish I could hear you review everything. Love all of your input and general hilarious banter. You guys are the best. Thanks, Kalia. Thanks so much, Kalia. That's really nice. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. I wish we could review everything as well, but there's just too much. We have four episodes of Lord of the Rings, the Rings of Power sitting to be watched and reviewed and chatted all about and we haven't started yet. We've only,

[01:26:35] we've watched one episode and it was fab. But yeah, I think we're going to have a lot to talk about. Yes. Our cup run us over, John. This, yes, it will. It will. It's our fellowship of the ring. We'll be marching our way across the mountains, battling against orcs, goblins, balrogs, you name it. And certainly a great thirst

[01:27:04] after four episodes. Definitely, definitely. And if you want to hear that, pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com and you can subscribe to the podcast over there. The main podcast feed, TV Podcast Industries, has everything that we cover but we also have a Rings of Power podcast feed over there which you can join. We'll be back here next time for the Vision Quest Pub Quiz Answers podcast and then it's time for Doomsday. Absolutely. Cannot wait for that. Our local cinema is putting it on

[01:27:34] at 6am, John, on the day it comes out which is now, I think, because it's coming out a couple of days earlier. We have two Doomsdays. Doomsday the movie and Doomsday when my sisters come over for Christmas. True, but that's a week later. We have time in between one Doomsday and the other. I don't mean it. I don't mean it. And I love your sisters as well. Sorry, that sounds like I was agreeing with you there. Yes, can't wait for that and we're already talking about Christmas but hey, look, it's six weeks away. Absolutely. Keep on planning.

[01:28:04] Absolutely. With that, thank you so much once again for joining us throughout the trilogy of Agatha All Along and WandaVision and Vision Quest coming to an end with this wonderful episode. It's been great chatting with you and chatting with you, John, and chatting with Chris as well. Absolutely. Thank you so much fellow defenders as always for joining us. It is brilliant that you keep coming back and keep wanting to listen to our random thoughts and they're structured thoughts. Structured.

[01:28:34] Structured. I'm probably more random than you are but we do have the structure on us. We do, John. We certainly do. That's the only thing that puts a bit of structure. That's it. A side effect. We certainly do. But until next time of course fellow defenders keep watching, keep listening and of course keep defending. Bye. Bye. Bye.

[01:29:02] You will be added to the essence of doom. Yes.

[01:29:31] Yes. I'm not going to leave that in. Sorry, that was weird. Absolutely off because I love we have the morality. The what? Morality? I love the fact that we have the morality metaphor up front. I hope we will have a moment where we have these where we have this family Ultron

[01:30:01] where we have this family Vision, Tommy, Billy. I just felt the voice sounded like the Red Skull from Vermeer. Right. Yeah. And it might be maybe it's not Tony. It might not be Tommy Robert Downey Jr.'s voice potentially or his

[01:30:29] Latverian or his Latverian accent is like off again. I absolutely do defend this episode of Vision Quest forever. I'd give it five didact... I'd give it five didactic... didactic... Didact. Didactic dudes. Didactic dudes. Didactic dudes. Didactic. Didactic.

[01:30:59] I would give it five didactic... No, but it's because of what I'm doing with this. I would give it five didactic duty delights out of five. Excellent. Followed by the unintentionally potentially funnel... Followed by the potentially intent... Followed by the potentially unintentional funny moment

[01:31:28] of Tommy breathing like a 70-year-old after smoking 200 Regal. Paralo says on Discord... Ah! Very satisfying finale to this excellent show. Aww. It's a really like... Yeah. Ah! Ah! Very satisfying. That's not how that reads.

[01:32:01] Ah! No, not that one, is it? Paralo says ah... Very satisfying. Jesus. That sounds like he's just... Yes, over on Discord, Paralo says ah... Very... Ugh... Ugh... Ugh... Ugh... Ugh... Thank you.