Luke Cage has been cancelled by Netflix

[00:00:00] Hi fellow defenders, this is Derek ONeill, of Defenders TV Podcast. We split out our discussion about the

[00:00:05] cancellation of Luke Cage Season 3 into this episode separately from our normal review episodes for

[00:00:11] Dead Level Season 3. We went pretty in depth into it and we intended it to just be a couple of minutes

[00:00:16] on our intro to our Dead Level Season 3 episode 3 review but it turned to do a much more deep

[00:00:21] discussion than thought it would work better as an episode on its own. So myself, Chris and John

[00:00:26] all got together to discuss the sad news about the cancellation of the second of the Marvel Netflix

[00:00:31] TV shows. Sadly, fellow defenders, the announcement has come in today that Luke Cage will not be

[00:00:38] getting a third season on Netflix and Netflix officially made the announcement alongside Marvel

[00:00:44] in a brief statement yesterday. There is an article in Dead Line which I'm going to put into our

[00:00:49] show notes but if you go over to Dead Line and have a look for the article about the cancellation

[00:00:53] of Luke Cage, there are lots and lots of details in there as to why the show seeming

[00:00:57] the Wisconsin scenes like they've got a lot of information on the behind-the-scenes process

[00:01:02] on Luke Cage. It seems like Chiara Koker has been writing episodes for the show along with

[00:01:07] the writers room for six months. There was a lot of back and forth with Netflix and Marvel taking

[00:01:11] notes as there always would be on a show like this but he delivered his final draft of the show two

[00:01:16] days ago. The response from Netflix according to Dead Line is that they asked for the show to be

[00:01:20] cut from 13 episodes to 10 after he's now delivered what would be a fifth or sixth draft, a final

[00:01:25] draft at this stage and it seems like now Netflix and Marvel are on opposite sides of this decision

[00:01:32] of what would happen to Luke Cage so Netflix have made the decision to cancel Luke Cage season three.

[00:01:37] So unfortunately while my culture is signed up to play the character of Luke Cage again

[00:01:42] it seems like much like Iron Fist were not going to get solo shows under these showrunners again.

[00:01:47] Sad sad things. Yeah absolutely yeah me sad me not have words to fully describe

[00:01:55] pain and yeah I think this is really sad and I think what makes it even more bitter sweet is the

[00:02:01] fact that there is a script or scripts out there for or a treatment for a 13 episodes season three

[00:02:09] of Luke Cage which you know for Iron Fist that maybe wasn't the case at all so I think that's

[00:02:16] it makes it even kind of a more bitter sweet really to be honest. Yeah it's sad news and for me I

[00:02:23] suppose I'm just slightly nervous with regards to the other shows. I mean at the moment

[00:02:28] the talk around Dead Level season three is absolutely epic and so you would think that

[00:02:35] he's safe. It was also great for Luke Cage season two and obviously things haven't worked out

[00:02:41] but yeah just a little nervous for the remaining Netflix shows to be honest. The Marvel Netflix

[00:02:47] shows because certainly I mean given how jam packed it has been this year with these shows you know

[00:02:54] increasingly looking back now you know reflectively on the different shows. Certainly Jessica Jones

[00:03:01] season two seems to be for me to have been maybe the least solid of the shows and so obviously

[00:03:11] Jessica Jones has gotten season three and that is great news in itself but you just wonder is this

[00:03:16] now just starting to weed out these shows and maybe reboot them in some way. Sorry Chris I know

[00:03:23] you want to get in on this as well because this is a bit of a half topic for all of us we're all

[00:03:26] kind of reeling a little bit from the news. I think my concern personally my bigger concern is the

[00:03:31] fact that this seems to be a creative differences concept here. Exactly. The reason why Luke Cage

[00:03:37] got cancelled is because the showrunner who brought this show to life and gave us the whole world

[00:03:42] of Harlan's paradise and brought the whole show together for two seasons brought his treatment for

[00:03:46] what he wanted to do with third season and they said no and then cancelled the show. That makes me

[00:03:52] more concerned for those shows we know that Melissa Rosenberg has already tendered her resignation

[00:03:56] as opposed on Jessica Jones she said it is her show she's done the first two seasons she'll do a

[00:04:01] third and then she's done that's almost in the bag that will definitely be coming out we'll see

[00:04:05] her vision three seasons as it is. Steve Lightfoot has delivered Punisher season two and season one

[00:04:12] so it's his vision that's on screen for those two seasons and Chio Coker was so integral to Luke Cage

[00:04:18] and as now been told that's it we're done with the show you know that that's more my concern I'm not

[00:04:23] concerned that we're going to lose all the Netflix Marvel shows I'm concerned that the characters

[00:04:26] are going to be given over two standard writers who don't have the same skin in the game like a

[00:04:31] Chio Coker or Steve Lightfoot or Melissa Rosenberg that's kind of where my concerns.

[00:04:36] I'm starting to read between the lines and I think that's what we need to do with this I think

[00:04:40] the deadline article was very if it is all to be believed because again well just it should be

[00:04:46] noted right now that none of this has been confirmed by any of the staff or we have no inside sources

[00:04:52] this is again just what these reporters are saying you're not saying that it's wrong but if we are

[00:04:56] to fully believe that plus Melissa leaving plus the season two of Iron Fist changing showrunners

[00:05:08] and potentially there was a lot more involvement than we originally believed by Marvel TV in these

[00:05:17] shows because if you start to think that Melissa saying hey I'm done after season three you could

[00:05:24] believe that potentially she had done a few of these and was to the point where I can't deal with

[00:05:31] Marvel sticky in so much. Okay now in fairness the reason why Melissa Rosenberg was left is because

[00:05:37] she's inked an overall deal to develop up to 12 shows I think it is for the CW so she's gotten a huge

[00:05:43] role outside of the Netflix universe so that is the reason she's leaving is my understanding she

[00:05:48] was effectively poached by the world side of the world who was poached by them as opposed to leaving

[00:05:53] because of any kind of creative differences this is the first time I've heard of specific creative

[00:05:57] differences in Netflix in fact the interview that we did with Chio Coker specifically spoke about

[00:06:02] the fact that all of these showrunners have kind of a central room where they all get together

[00:06:06] and I'll share ideas for their shows it felt really like a creative environment that these shows are made

[00:06:10] in. Yeah and they collaborate with Marvel as well through Jeff Loeb and Jo Kassada as well as

[00:06:18] probably the team from Netflix where they you know they see and give ideas and so on yeah I think

[00:06:25] that seems to be the difference here is that there is a creative difference here between Marvel

[00:06:32] and Chio Coker on one side and then Netflix who are looking for a 10 episode treatment like I'm

[00:06:38] Fiskot and of course it seems as though Chio Coker has changed and really tried to incorporate

[00:06:49] some of the things that Netflix have wanted judging by this article but now he says I can only go

[00:06:55] so far without ultimately changing what I believe and want to have as my story on the page yeah

[00:07:03] and I think all these things are very collaborative but I suppose ultimately there comes a point if

[00:07:10] um you know one side seems to dominate or and there's no further room for compromise around that creative

[00:07:18] process so I mean it it's kind of interesting really um as you say that this seems to be the first

[00:07:24] one word that is some kind of creativity difference yeah yeah I'm sort of where we about where

[00:07:34] this will lead to and I think that's probably where all the fellow defenders including

[00:07:38] Austria as hosts is where this leaves us because we know we have Jessica Jones season 3

[00:07:46] publisher season 2 that those are in the bag finished filming wrapped in post-production

[00:07:53] no nothing has been announced further that being said the Luke Cage always forwards leaving post

[00:08:02] and the Iron Fist will were I think was it not Iron Fist or Tournament but Iron Fist is immortal

[00:08:08] um in some form so the question I then um interested to see is okay well maybe this is

[00:08:18] the singular character arcs are gone but what we might get is as we discussed in say uh

[00:08:26] Iron Fist season 2 we may get a heroes for hire we may get a daughters of the dragon they may test

[00:08:34] other characters such as and I know into into the moonlight a moonlight podcast will be open

[00:08:41] arms they may actually do a moonlight we may actually get like crazily like a night thruster or

[00:08:49] things like that I think it's very likely we're going to see their their foreign main characters who

[00:08:53] now no longer have a show calling wing Danny round Luke Cage and Misty Knight I think we're going

[00:08:58] to see the four of them again in a crossover show like yeah like here is for hire I think it's likely

[00:09:05] that if they do that it'll be a one-off event like defenders with an eight episode series to see

[00:09:10] how it works having the four of those without a big show runner behind them see how those characters

[00:09:14] play off each other and see which ones might split off into their own seasons in future but yeah

[00:09:19] this does feel like the comic book world at the moment as well where we have um a lot of Marvel

[00:09:25] digital firsts are right there with Jessica Jones Luke Cage Iron Fist um having their digital comics

[00:09:30] being produced seeing if there's any interest in them and only then they start printing them and

[00:09:35] selling them in comic book shops yes that's what this is starting to feel like it feels like unless

[00:09:39] you're doing an Avengers on TV every week it's not going to be supported by Netflix which

[00:09:44] you know when you see what's happening over in the Warner Brothers DC side of things where they're

[00:09:48] basically given 25 episodes seasons to a story that could probably sustain about three episodes

[00:09:53] of an Netflix show and it's so harsh to think they're pulling these shows from from

[00:09:58] Osfans who are really enjoying them yeah exactly you could go down the Blantyverse

[00:10:03] whoosh and but I don't think anyone wants that no not even DC fans want that no and then

[00:10:10] but then we do have potentially what they're the DC online is doing with Titans where this seems

[00:10:18] a darker more gritty kind of it's a Netflix version of the DC universe Titans kind of teen Titans

[00:10:25] apparently yeah you do kind of wonder if the conversation at Netflix HQ this week with Jeff

[00:10:32] well if you want it so bad why don't you make it over on your own streaming service your Disney

[00:10:36] competitive service that's going up against Netflix next year why don't you just take it and move

[00:10:39] it over there but they can't do that I want to just silence some of the commenters that have been

[00:10:43] out there saying well that's okay we'll have our interest on leakage over on the Disney streaming

[00:10:48] service my culture and Fin Jones are contracted by Netflix for their shows they are absolutely not

[00:10:55] gonna have them appear in Daredevil in the future in Jessica Jones in the future and also their

[00:11:00] own streaming shows over in the Disney streaming service it's not gonna happen either they're

[00:11:04] gonna completely separate the myths at the universe and possibly recast which I don't want or

[00:11:10] this will be the end of these characters having shows for a longer time or they're gonna stay

[00:11:15] and have the one off here as for a higher show yeah so I think potentially because the mouse

[00:11:23] owns Marvel what they could do which I don't see them doing is buying the stars out of their

[00:11:30] contracts okay we're not saying it's impossible that they'll get they'll be moved over to the

[00:11:35] the other streaming service and Chio will be given heck hey look we'll make it for you bring

[00:11:40] over everyone here's we'll buy out your contracts that is highly unlikely actually yeah because

[00:11:46] they were talking eight figures when you start adding everything together it could be more and I don't

[00:11:53] see them doing I think they have enough on their place that I think they need they're going to be

[00:11:57] developing their own TV shows from scratch and the idea of bringing over Netflix show that's

[00:12:01] already two seasons in starting it off over on their own network you know yeah it sounds really

[00:12:06] complicated I just don't see the happening for a long time until until they want to sometime then

[00:12:11] down the road I suppose but exactly I think what we'll end up getting is as I said personally right

[00:12:16] now I think what they'll do is as you said we get a hero's fire or I think actually the dollars

[00:12:23] of dragon and heroes fire may blend together as you said you'll get all four of those characters

[00:12:28] together they'll call it probably heroes for hire and the dogs of dragons will be some of those heroes

[00:12:34] and I think last we'll get a treatment of that I think we'll get all four characters together

[00:12:40] the dogs of dragon will become part of the heroes for hire and it'll be the four of them etc I think

[00:12:48] ultimately the I don't know if it'll be an eight episode treatment I think they may

[00:12:53] extend it for a full season but it will be a test as you said I think

[00:12:57] what Netflix are potentially doing right now is probably shopping for one or two more characters

[00:13:04] but not aggressively you've got to remember they've got all of Miller World

[00:13:09] coming down the road we got Jared Ways on Brella Academy so they have a lot of

[00:13:15] superhero supervellant shows in the works already so I think probably this will slow down

[00:13:24] the trickle of what we get from a Marvel Netflix collaboration coming in but that being said

[00:13:35] we don't know and I think I think what I want to fellow founders to remember is

[00:13:39] no one knows unless you work for Marvel or Netflix you have like there is going to be non-stop rumors

[00:13:47] for the next two to three weeks and potentially six months until they make a massive announcement

[00:13:54] and in terms of how they are going to progress forward so probably whatever the first big Comic Con

[00:14:01] next year is that's where we'll get some form of Netflix and answer that gives them a good

[00:14:07] six to eight months to really understand what they want to do I don't agree I'm expecting that we're

[00:14:13] going to get an announcement of a Daredevil season four within the next three or four weeks if there

[00:14:18] is going to be one and that gives us our indication what Netflix have been constantly saying in fact

[00:14:22] they're and they made an announcement earlier on this week as an earnings call where Netflix said

[00:14:27] these are our shows it's our decision whether we cancel them or not that was very specifically

[00:14:32] stated in response to a question about the cancellation of our interests when someone was effectively

[00:14:37] kind of suggesting that they were going to just give up on all of them and they were all going to move

[00:14:40] over to Disney streaming service or they'd lost a contract or something like that but apparently

[00:14:44] they're saying they will cancel them if they choose to cancel them not on anybody else's head

[00:14:49] yeah I mean I think the interesting thing here and I suppose you know with an eye on Daredevil

[00:14:55] you know the current season is that you know after the first seasons and the second season of

[00:15:01] Daredevil are of these shows the the confirmation of a second season or the follow-up season was

[00:15:08] very very quick for me I was getting nervous that Luke Cage hadn't had that and now onto season three

[00:15:17] in the same way that Jessica Jones had and again that's another example of where it's really

[00:15:22] quite quickly was confirmed that we were getting another season of Jessica Jones and we didn't get

[00:15:28] that with Luke Cage and obviously then with Iron Fist it really was very quickly and mentioned

[00:15:35] and announced that we weren't getting any more Iron Fist so it's got to cancel within the month

[00:15:40] of the being released yeah so I think ultimately it'll be very interesting to see what happens after

[00:15:45] Daredevil I mean he is the granddaddy of the Marvel Netflix he kicked all of this off he certainly got

[00:15:52] you know the unexpected season two the quickly off the off the bat where we then got introduced

[00:15:59] to a lecture and a punisher so I think that will be the interesting thing for me and that's

[00:16:06] not to say that that will happen like that it's just I will get increasingly nervous that

[00:16:10] Daredevil it will also be going I mean I think for me this is just as you say Chris you know we don't

[00:16:16] know what the plans Marvel or Netflix have for some of these shows what the trajectory of these

[00:16:23] episodes are so it's really about seeing what happens and it's just increasingly I will probably

[00:16:30] get more and more nervous for for these shows on Netflix but then I suppose everything has that

[00:16:37] cycle so the concern is this isn't a bad quality as well this isn't like Iron Fist was cancelled because

[00:16:43] it was bad or the cage was cancelled because it was bad both at very very positive responses are

[00:16:49] understanding as well as that leakage had a much higher audience as well this has come down to

[00:16:54] canceling it because of creative differences and that's where the challenge is guys I will

[00:16:58] actually probably break this out as its own episode um rather than have this as our discussion going

[00:17:03] into the third episode of Daredevil because I think this is that big a topic that it does need to

[00:17:08] be kind of I agree with both you and I I think we're all on the same page I think Daredevil will

[00:17:14] probably get its announcement in the coming weeks if the reviews are as positive as you think I

[00:17:20] was more kind of talking to let's call it the future of the universe um because what we will do

[00:17:27] is get Jeff probably come out at some point to say hey you have Jessica Jones coming next year

[00:17:34] you have or you have Jessica Jones coming this year you have Punisher coming this year and do

[00:17:38] you know what here are three and they'll just put title cards probably of what's coming in the future

[00:17:44] they'll need to roadmap this because what additionally what will end up happening is people will

[00:17:50] start to question and we do as Geeks nerds if fans of the genre fans of these shows we go up

[00:18:02] there in a lot of the information so what if you put lace of vacuum on information the vacuum is

[00:18:10] filled by speculation so I feel what they'll probably do is they'll probably this and this kind

[00:18:18] of closes off in my view kind of where we go we'll get a Daredevil announcement most likely if the

[00:18:24] reviews are as positive as we think they are towards the end of the show we'll get a hey Daredevil

[00:18:29] will be back next in the future in season four we'll get that announcement they'll go dark

[00:18:35] they'll build together what their roadmap is then they'll come out and announce it and that's very

[00:18:41] much kind of going hey the universe is here Harlow the hell's kitchen is around this is what you need to

[00:18:48] know yeah and I think that then nails everything down I think is probably in the best way putting it

[00:18:53] but again who knows I suppose that's the big thing like none of us work there so

[00:18:59] let's wait and see and try and keep all the conversations in Defenders TV podcast group

[00:19:05] as genuine and happy as possible absolutely absolutely um I do wonder if this may call some kind of

[00:19:13] schism between Netflix and Marvel TV though um they haven't signed up any other characters that

[00:19:19] we're aware of so if they're going with going to Marvel looking for more shows in the future you know

[00:19:24] I wonder if Marvel may say we have our own avenue for those now um you have what you have kind of

[00:19:29] thing so it's a possibility too what I suppose let's close it out with the irony because everybody

[00:19:33] knows the irony book we might as well hit the nail on the head like we do often on these shows

[00:19:38] there are in the obviously in comic books Luke Cage was chosen as a character to represent

[00:19:43] black splotation movies which were very popular in the 70s in comic books then obviously

[00:19:48] iron fist was chosen to represent kung fu movie culture which was very popular in the 70s

[00:19:53] and both of their books got cancelled I believe both on quite big cliffhangers as well

[00:19:58] and then they merged the two of them together in created paramount on our interest they created

[00:20:02] the heroes for hire you know so that they could sell those two characters again so potentially

[00:20:07] this merging of those two characters in their two worlds which seem incompatible right now on

[00:20:11] on screen as to where we left Danny Rand at the end of season two of iron fist and where Luke Cage is

[00:20:16] at the end of season two of Luke Cage but you never know maybe we'll get the best possible show

[00:20:20] out of the merging of these two characters in future exactly let's stay positive absolutely

[00:20:25] thank you so much fellow defenders for listening to our rant about the cancellation of Luke Cage

[00:20:30] really sad to hear that we have obviously got reviews of all 26 episodes of the Luke Cage series plus

[00:20:35] the episode of the defenders and our interview with the fantastic showrunner of Luke Cage

[00:20:39] Chiodari Coker for your listening pleasure on our feedover defenders tvpodcast.com

[00:20:44] thank you so much for joining us for this discussion fellow defenders it's very sad news as

[00:20:49] you can probably tell we're all a bit all a bit raw about it still but we will be back with good

[00:20:54] news this week with our review of episode three of Daredevil season three which will be out on

[00:20:59] Tuesday the 23rd of October at our in depth discussion and continuation of that series of

[00:21:04] discussions thanks so much for joining us for all of our discussions about Luke Cage and I guess

[00:21:08] we'll leave it for the final time with our music for Luke Cage done by Mrs. Saby McDonald as always thank you bye