Iron Fist Episode 1 "Snow Gives Way" Podcast

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This is defenders TV podcast episode 90, where we are starting on our Iron Fist journey, season one, episode one, Snow Gives Way.

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Welcome to the podcast, defenders.

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It's, we're back, we're back.

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Not it's back, we're back.

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For Snow Gives Way, the first episode of the new Marvel Netflix show, I'm fist rounding out the defenders, the fourth one arrives in Manhattan after a long, long wander by foot, in Berthes, to the greatest metropolis on earth.

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I am one of your hosts, John.

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I'm one of your hosts, Derek.

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And rounding out the group, I'm Chris.

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Happy St.

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Patrick's Day.

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Absolutely.

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Is it not Happy St.

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Danny's Day?

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It's the day of old Danny Boy.

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Yeah, Danny Boy, the pints of Guinness are flowing.

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Well, I've heard of green Guinness, so pretty much if you can get a green and white Guinness, you can pretty much celebrate both Iron Fist and St.

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Patrick's Day all in one go.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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It's the episodes are being released at 7 a.m.

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on St.

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Patrick's Day.

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We're recording a little bit ahead of time.

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Thanks so much to Netflix UK and Ireland for providing us with our preview copies.

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But yes, you hopefully will be listening to us on St.

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Patrick's Day.

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And as an Irish based podcast, that's kind of cool.

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That is very cool.

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And in fact, water is not into wine but into Guinness with a nice creamy frothy top.

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Absolutely.

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So while it is 7 o'clock in the morning, we're not drunk just yet.

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We might be getting a St.

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Patrick's Day pint later on.

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We might be slurring our words as we move through the podcast, obviously.

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And of course, the pronunciation of some of the names might go to pot.

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You never know.

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You never know.

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Including our own.

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Come on.

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Exactly.

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It'd be like, one, one, thank you, John.

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As we get to episode 6, 7, we're going to be just slashed.

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That is true.

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Yes.

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And so, yeah, it's the fourth defender.

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He's arrived on Netflix.

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And of course, we're going to be getting into our episode here.

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Just in advance to any new listeners who have joined us for Iron Fist, and of course, to all of those who are returning, welcome to the podcast.

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Just in advance of this, we will be giving our five points.

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But this time, not each individual five points, we have merged them into a single massive five points.

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And that we will deliver on this episode, Snow Gives Way.

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And of course, we will, we're starting St.

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Patrick's Day, as we've said, but we will be bringing new episodes every Tuesday and Friday then of each week.

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And of course, we watch them as we go.

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We don't watch ahead.

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And that is coming from our Lord and Master, Obenfuhrer, Derek.

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And so, yeah, so we will be getting into this.

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episode 3 review will be out then on the 21st of March.

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And our episode 2 will then be on the 18th of March, if I've got that right.

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I think so.

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I think so.

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We're obviously recording these one at a time.

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As we go, as John mentioned, we watch the episode, we record our podcast.

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So we've only watched episode 1 and we're just recording the podcast for episode 1.

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We'll record episode 2 as soon as we possibly can and hopefully have that out over the weekend.

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Then we'll go into our normal pattern of Tuesday and Friday for a release of episodes.

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So hopefully you can stay with us for all of the episodes.

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Watch them as you want to and you can jump in and out of our podcast as you watch the episodes.

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Before we go any further, these are spoiler-filled reviews of Iron Fist.

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So make sure you've seen episode 1, season 1 of Iron Fist before you listen any further in the episode.

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Make sure you don't get spoiled and then episode 2, you'll have to watch that before the next one afterwards.

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So yeah, and of course, as always, it's important for us to let you know where you can catch us and subscribe.

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So please, if you want to hear all things, Iron Fist and of course, the defenders, please subscribe and listen on iTunes at www.defenderstvpodcast.com/itunes.

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Or of course, you can go to any other Ying or Yang podcast catcher and just search defenderstvpodcast.

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Nice.

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So guys, if you have any feedback for any of our shows, be it episode 90 or any of the previous 89, obviously, we want you to go back and binge listen as you're waiting for the next episode.

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You can just go to our website and leave a short voice piece of feedback.

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It can be up to 30 seconds.

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And that's obviously on defenderstvpodcast.com.

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Or you can go to any of our social media sites.

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So we're on Twitter at defenderscast.

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Or we have a fabulous group over on Facebook, where a lot of us and other fans kind of sit down and we talk everything defenders.

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So come over and join us.

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So that's groups forward slash defenderstvpodcast.

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And there you will basically catch up on.

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We leave the episode 90 will be out there on the day one.

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And you'll be able to kind of give us your feedback on that.

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And as we progress through our recording, we'll put up a post where you can leave all your spoilery thoughts.

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Or if you just have a general question or anything like that, feel free to just to jump in and put a post up.

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And our lovely director of defenderstv Podcast, Derek, will either decide or break it down in terms of if you can have the say there.

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We're not saying he's like the Red Skull.

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He's more a mix between Robert Radford in Winter Soldier.

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I think that's a good one.

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You're good, but you're also bad.

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We're not sure.

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I like it.

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My resume from this show is extending every season.

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We've got co-host, producer, director, and open furor.

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Very impressive.

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Thank you, gentlemen.

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Put that on your CV.

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I'm pretty sure you'd get a few eyebrows raised.

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I like it.

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I think it's time to get into the podcast proper.

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Guys, are you ready to get into?

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Absolutely.

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Iron Fist, season one, episode one, Snow Gives Way.

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Well, this episode was written by the showrunner, Scott Buck, who has done shows previously like Six Feet under and Dexter, but he's also been confirmed by Marvel as the showrunner for Inhumans, the new show coming up from ABC Studios that makes all of the Marvel shows from Agents of SHIELD all the way through The defenders.

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He's going to be the showrunner for that.

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It's a co-production with IMAX.

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If you haven't heard us talk about it before, they're going to be doing the first two episodes in IMAX theaters, followed by a TV series of about eight episodes, we believe, which will be coming out in about September this year, I think.

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So he's been a very busy man to have two full TV shows as showrunner and writing some of the episodes like this one.

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The episode was directed by John Dahl, who worked on Billions with former daredevil cast member Toby Leonard Moore, which I thought was quite cool.

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Yeah, that's cool.

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And he also directed a slightly controversial defenders TV podcast episode of Jessica Jones, the fantastic, aka Sin Bin, episode 9 of Jessica Jones.

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So interesting that they're also bringing on board a former director of the defenders TV shows to direct this episode.

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That's quite cool.

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Absolutely.

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It's getting all very incestuous over at Marvel Netflix.

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Yeah, they've got a huge pot to pull from now.

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Lots of people have written for the shows now and directed the shows.

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I'm really hoping once we get to defenders that they'll pick out the real big writers and directors to be able to direct each of the eight episodes for the defenders.

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I think that's hopefully the way they're going to go.

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And that will be probably some of the most controversial writing and directing announcements ever made in a Marvel TV show because we're all going to either love it or hate it.

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Potentially love and hate.

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Exactly.

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Because I think when you put it as controversial is probably the best way.

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Some of us loved Sin Min, some of us were lukewarm and then some had issues.

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But overall, I love his stuff in billions, so he's a fantastic director.

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I want to see what he did here.

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Absolutely.

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Well, John, do you want to tell us what Scott Buck and John Dahl gave us with your synopsis for the first episode of Iron Fist?

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Sure.

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A sloppily dressed 20-something tries to gain entry to Rand Enterprises to meet with the former CEO Harold Meachum.

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The man claims to be Daniel Rand, the heir to the Rand family fortune thought to have died in a plane crash with his parents ten years previously.

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Danny battles hard to get the attention of Ward and Joy Meachum, his former childhood friends, to tell them he's made it back from the expedition.

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But Ward believes he is an impostor looking to undermine the Meachums ahead of a corporate expansion.

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The former billionaire, Danny, is left alone to fend for himself in New York, sleeping and practising his martial arts in Central Park.

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He encounters Big Al, another homeless man, with a possible connection to a mystical hawk and Colin Wing, a down-on-her-luck martial arts instructor trying to make ends meet.

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Both Big Al and Colin realise there is something special about Danny, but only when he has an impossible escape from a killer New York taxi cab, does Joy Meachum start to believe Daniel's story.

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Unfortunately, under the guidance of Harold Meachum, who was also thought dead, Ward and Joy create a trap that Danny can't escape from.

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You know, I wrote part of this synopsis, and I'm trying to work out that the killer taxi cab sends very different from what I meant in that.

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It wasn't a taxi cab, it was the taxi driver in the taxi cab.

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That's what I meant, right?

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Absolutely.

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Well, actually, it depends on whether you want to think that the cars or the automobile is in the wrong, or is it the human element in the wrong?

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Think about it.

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When AI cars come, who is to blame?

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The programmer or the car?

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I like it.

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Conungence, viral conungence.

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Or is it imbued with some kind of spirit, mystical spirit, some evil mystical spirit that is now causing the bonnet to lift up and chomp away like a pair of jaws, just like in Evil Dead?

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The possessed car.

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I can't even pronounce that.

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Necronomicon?

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Necronomicon.

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The Necronomicon.

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Comicon.

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Comicon.

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Right.

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Enough about possessed cars.

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Since we didn't say it up front, I'll probably actually drop this in again up front.

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This is a spoiler-filled review of Netflix.

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Oh, big time.

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Iron Fist.

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We'll probably re-record that puppet into the start.

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We will be talking about everything to do with this episode.

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We did see some previews that were pretty spoilery before the episode has launched, but hopefully you've now watched the episode and are fully caught up on what's happening on this episode.

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But a quick question.

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Do you think we will spoil people's enjoyment of it after this review?

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Interesting.

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Controversial.

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See, controversy stalks this podcast like a tall, stalky thing.

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It does.

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It does.

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A stalk.

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Well, we're here to talk about our opinions.

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I suppose there are 13 episodes and we will be here for all 13 of them.

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That is true.

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Yeah.

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Hopefully, there'll be some good and bad as always throughout the episodes, but we are definitely here to share our opinions and hopefully the listeners join us throughout those 13 episodes.

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Quick one.

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Obviously, we've got a brand new series here, so therefore we have brand new opening titles and a brand new theme tune.

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Chris, what did you think of the opening titles for this episode?

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I'm torn.

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Okay.

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Visually, it was stunning.

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Visually, it is very stunning in terms of the flow of the outline silhouette of what we assume is Danny.

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It almost brought me akin to the first time we saw good old DD with the blood dripping all over the New York landscape.

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Yeah.

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I thought that was fantastic.

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And I think there's elements there.

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The theme itself, it's not as best way of putting it, as attention grabbing almost.

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The very kind of classical Eastern theme that's there, overlaid with obviously a more modern twist.

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Just there's a slight just precision there.

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I don't know how it's not one that I'm going to be listening to on my way to work consistently.

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Like I've listened to some of the others.

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But I'm not quite sure.

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I think visually it's stunning, audibly, potentially forgetful.

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Maybe it will grow on me more and more throughout as we listen.

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But what did you guys think?

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I have to say on the theme tune, by the second time I watched it for this review discussion that we were having, I've been humming it ever since.

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So I think the theme tune definitely caught me.

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One thing I did like about the credits themselves, I did like that the black movement that's going on, it does really feel like traditional Chinese writing, you know, the brush stroke writing.

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Oh, I didn't think about that.

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So while he's doing martial arts moves, it does feel like he's writing something in the titles.

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Yeah, and it looks like a brush stroke as well from the hands and the feet, which is kind of interesting, definitely.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I really liked the opening titles, I have to say, the only thing, and I think it just sets it apart from the other three.

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And I suppose this is going to be inevitable for, I mean, I suppose for every one of these, you know, Jessica Jones was compared to daredevil, Luke Cage to Jessica Jones and daredevil.

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And now we have the fourth defender arriving in the form of Iron Fist.

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And of course, I suppose it's inevitable that there will be comparisons then to now Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and daredevil.

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So the thing I kind of really thought was just how it didn't really have that much color.

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Like daredevil absolutely embraced the red, obviously.

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I mean, it was dripping all over the place.

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You had the really strong hints of purple for the Jessica Jones opening titles and obviously that kind of almost sepia yellow color running through the Luke Cage ones and so I must say I was expecting a bit more green and a bit more yellow to the opening titles are definitely and you know there was some kind of like yellow sparks coming off some of the moves yeah and there was you know kind of a very pale background green coming from some of the the moves as well I just wish they had maybe just lifted that slightly but I did like it and I like that idea but maybe it will evolve during I don't know whether you know are we going to see an evolution where it becomes greener or more yellow it was an interesting choice to have the black it was very muted I don't mind that but it it certainly looked different because of that lack of color compared to the the other three which I think really embraced the colors of their characters in that sense.

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So John answer me this there was a variant costume for Danny where he was black and yellow so the symbol and the the hood was yellow and the rest of it was black is that am I am I imagining that because I know there's the white one and there's obviously the green one yeah but there was there was a black variant in something I think yeah I think there was but and I suppose in that sense if they're taking from that that's I suppose then okay but I mean then you you know with daredevil he started off in black and moved to the red I mean I suppose the well-known one would be obviously the green and yellow or the or the green and gold and I mean they do have hints of color like I really like the opening titles this sounds like I really didn't or something but I think they could have just brought a bit more color to it and that that's all but I actually when when Derek kind of said it was like the traditional Chinese writing then I kind of thought well okay if it's that then that makes sense that it would be in black and you know in terms of that brushstroke so but I did really enjoy the opening titles and I have to say I love the the move from the the the mountainous area at the start.

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We generally don't talk about them for the rest of the series, so good to have an opinion on them and to be in.

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If it does change over the episodes that we're talking about, guys, make sure you mention it on the podcast.

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But what you're saying, Chris, basically, is the visuals you really liked, but the music doesn't have a patch on our new theme tune by Mississippi McDonald.

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That's what you're saying.

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Of course.

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Basically, yeah.

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I think I'm slightly biased, but overall, let's wait.

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I've only had one view through, so maybe on my second view through before I'm thinking of doing a view through one of number one again or rewatching number one, then go back into number two just before our next podcast.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

00:18:10.795 --> 00:18:15.575
With that, I think we can start moving on to our top five.

00:18:16.435 --> 00:18:25.555
For our first point, really, it's Rand Returns with painful headaches and possibly PTSD going on.

00:18:26.755 --> 00:18:35.095
What did you guys think of ultimately his return and certainly how the flashbacks were done?

00:18:35.095 --> 00:18:42.815
I suppose how you felt Finn Jones ultimately settled in to this character.

00:18:42.815 --> 00:18:44.855
Chris, what were your thoughts?

00:18:45.795 --> 00:18:48.335
So I'm going to kind of, the PTSD was mine.

00:18:48.335 --> 00:18:56.135
I think that's where we're going to end up getting a broken character.

00:18:56.135 --> 00:19:07.775
So I think potentially with the comic books, and now again, some of the Immortal Iron Fist, which was a bit darker, kind of showed more of the human element of Danny Rand.

00:19:07.775 --> 00:19:16.815
I think that's where they're trying to go because these headaches and then the beautiful visuals where it was almost just like cutting over with white.

00:19:16.815 --> 00:19:22.015
You could see him, the heavy breathing and the kind of the migraines.

00:19:22.015 --> 00:19:28.015
I think what they're going to play with is that this was such a traumatic experience.

00:19:28.015 --> 00:19:43.195
Any reminders, he has to battle through and learn to deal with, and that will be his challenge, his mountain outside of the Meachums and the actual villains.

00:19:43.195 --> 00:19:52.755
The unknown villain or the unseen villain will be his kind of traumatic experience that he has kind of probably bottled up or forgotten.

00:19:52.755 --> 00:19:59.995
He makes a line which is, I don't remember much when he's in the car with the young Meachum.

00:20:01.175 --> 00:20:06.775
That kind of started me down this path of, okay, maybe he's suppressing a lot.

00:20:07.475 --> 00:20:20.635
Maybe that will be the first arc of the thing, of the series where he is trying to understand and come to terms with what's something he's potentially buried for years.

00:20:20.635 --> 00:20:21.095
Yeah.

00:20:21.095 --> 00:20:26.375
I think it's something that you mentioned on the 101 podcast, Chris, just that we would be seeing flashbacks throughout the series.

00:20:26.375 --> 00:20:28.455
It's the only way you can really tell some of the story.

00:20:28.455 --> 00:20:35.055
Obviously, it was expected, but you were really hopeful that we'd see something different than just a flashback episode or something different here.

00:20:35.375 --> 00:20:43.315
It really feels like the way they've done those particular shots, it feels like he's reliving it more than having a flashback or having a memory of something.

00:20:43.315 --> 00:20:46.755
It feels like he's going through the pain of what happened to him at the time.

00:20:46.755 --> 00:20:48.095
That's a great touch by the director.

00:20:48.095 --> 00:20:49.155
Yeah.

00:20:49.155 --> 00:21:10.335
It definitely gave that sense of that he was reliving those moments in his own mind because of the pale yellow aura and the lines that came around his body at that moment where you go back into that.

00:21:10.695 --> 00:21:15.755
I really like the way Finn Jones did the intensity of that.

00:21:16.275 --> 00:21:18.495
It looks like it's troubling him.

00:21:18.495 --> 00:21:22.995
It looks like it's something he's not able to control.

00:21:23.715 --> 00:21:32.755
And that I thought was really, really good, that it was that slight subtlety, rather than doing the flashback, but it was a reliving.

00:21:32.755 --> 00:21:39.815
And that would connect in, Chris, absolutely with this idea of yours, of the PTSD as well.

00:21:39.815 --> 00:21:44.435
So I think that's a really good way of doing it as well.

00:21:44.435 --> 00:22:23.135
And I like the contrast it does then with, obviously, the more relaxed Danny, because in terms of him doing his Tai Chi in the park and this idea of his meditation, that despite the control that that brings and the centering that it is to achieve, that he has also something that he is trying to control, not only just with the chi, but he is trying to deal with and find answers of this really traumatic moment.

00:22:23.135 --> 00:22:24.455
So yeah, that was really cool.

00:22:24.995 --> 00:22:30.755
I have to say I really enjoyed Finn Jones in this role.

00:22:30.755 --> 00:22:33.715
I mean, I think, I thought it was really, really good.

00:22:33.715 --> 00:22:35.915
I can't agree with you more.

00:22:35.915 --> 00:22:40.995
I was some, okay, first of all, he's a namesake, so he's another Jones.

00:22:40.995 --> 00:22:42.055
I love him just for that.

00:22:42.915 --> 00:22:45.915
You've had a Jessica Jones and a Finn Jones now as an actor.

00:22:45.915 --> 00:22:46.895
I know, it's great.

00:22:46.895 --> 00:22:52.475
Literally, they just need to bring me in, I don't know, as marketing, and then they've got the whole lot.

00:22:52.475 --> 00:22:53.615
It's great.

00:22:53.615 --> 00:22:57.535
All the Joneses or the Jones I, depending on how you want to bring it together.

00:22:57.535 --> 00:23:00.395
Keeping up with the Joneses, indeed.

00:23:00.395 --> 00:23:03.115
I was slightly skeptical.

00:23:03.115 --> 00:23:04.875
Skeptical is wrong.

00:23:04.875 --> 00:23:08.355
What's something between eager and wary?

00:23:08.355 --> 00:23:09.335
Somewhere in the middle.

00:23:09.335 --> 00:23:09.795
Tempered.

00:23:10.415 --> 00:23:10.895
Tempered.

00:23:10.895 --> 00:23:16.875
I was tempered about the casting because I've seen him in Game of Thrones.

00:23:16.875 --> 00:23:19.155
That's why I was excited for him to play Danny Rand.

00:23:19.155 --> 00:23:23.875
But his role there was very one-sided.

00:23:23.875 --> 00:23:27.915
And I wasn't, to a degree, obviously he had the jewel.

00:23:28.055 --> 00:23:33.235
And I don't want to give away spoilers for people on a show that we don't really talk about, but it was good.

00:23:33.235 --> 00:23:38.135
And to a degree, I forgot about his character as the season progressed and left.

00:23:38.515 --> 00:23:44.035
I was like, oh yeah, when I see him again, I'm like, oh yeah, that's him and he was doing X.

00:23:45.335 --> 00:23:59.315
For this whole episode, I literally grew more towards excited to see what else this actor can bring to this character.

00:23:59.315 --> 00:24:12.195
He has that mischievous smirk almost when he's doing some of the more boyish Danny Rand, iron fist kind of things.

00:24:12.195 --> 00:24:26.315
And then he also has that agony and he, as you said, as an actor, he brought to life that potential duality of the fear and the pain, but also that boyish kind of smirks.

00:24:26.315 --> 00:24:27.235
And I think that was great.

00:24:28.495 --> 00:24:31.415
I am completely relieved with the casting.

00:24:31.415 --> 00:24:32.695
I'm on board with it.

00:24:32.695 --> 00:24:34.535
And I just want to see more of what he can do.

00:24:34.935 --> 00:24:37.095
I think he plays that wide-eyed innocence really well.

00:24:37.095 --> 00:24:40.035
This is a kid that left New York when he was about 10 years old.

00:24:40.035 --> 00:24:41.215
It's 15 years later.

00:24:41.215 --> 00:24:43.875
He hasn't seen a city like New York since he was 10.

00:24:43.875 --> 00:24:51.055
So I think he's playing that idea of the memories of what New York was like are obviously very different than they are now.

00:24:51.055 --> 00:24:52.515
So he plays that very well.

00:24:52.515 --> 00:24:53.615
I can definitely see that.

00:24:54.075 --> 00:25:00.795
And as a body type, as a very kind of lithe body type, it really does feel like that kind of Bruce Lee, very skinny kind of fighter.

00:25:00.795 --> 00:25:02.215
That's a lot of power underneath.

00:25:03.035 --> 00:25:05.555
What essentially is not a very muscly kind of guy, you know?

00:25:05.875 --> 00:25:07.295
I think Finn is quite good at that.

00:25:07.295 --> 00:25:08.335
Yeah, no, absolutely.

00:25:08.335 --> 00:25:15.355
I mean, I think, yeah, you can see the hints of where he will become mysterious.

00:25:15.355 --> 00:25:22.395
I like, I love the interaction that he has with Colleen Wing in her club, her martial arts club.

00:25:22.575 --> 00:25:26.355
And when she asks him, you know, where was he trained?

00:25:26.555 --> 00:25:28.175
And he goes, Cunlun.

00:25:28.175 --> 00:25:30.715
And it's just the way he delivers that.

00:25:30.715 --> 00:25:39.215
It's kind of like he's slightly embarrassed to say it because he's like, you're not going to know where that is at all, because nobody does.

00:25:39.215 --> 00:25:44.775
And it's like he's trying to just repress a smirk.

00:25:44.775 --> 00:25:51.135
And I really like that kind of just that whole tone of that little brief interaction.

00:25:51.275 --> 00:25:58.875
And certainly, I think as well, where he's on the sofa in Joy Meachum's office and he's kind of hugging the cushion.

00:25:58.875 --> 00:26:06.375
I think it's just that idea, as you say, that in many respects, all of this is memories of his childhood.

00:26:06.375 --> 00:26:09.295
I mean, he talks about, this was my second home.

00:26:09.295 --> 00:26:13.255
He's looking at it all through that lens of being a child.

00:26:13.255 --> 00:26:15.635
And I think that's really, really interesting.

00:26:15.635 --> 00:26:16.055
Absolutely.

00:26:16.055 --> 00:26:18.635
And that's like he's just won a game of hide and seek or something.

00:26:19.215 --> 00:26:22.855
It's like, you can't find me, but I found my way around this entire building.

00:26:22.935 --> 00:26:24.815
It's a nice little cheeky moment, definitely.

00:26:24.815 --> 00:26:32.015
But to go on to our second point, because it is obviously connected to the first point, it's kind of the big first fight sequence in the show.

00:26:32.015 --> 00:26:36.335
The fight at Rand Enterprises between Danny and all the security guards that are in there.

00:26:36.335 --> 00:26:40.715
I think this kind of shows what Finn Jones is capable of in the role.

00:26:40.715 --> 00:26:43.315
He's obviously doing a lot of the fight sequences that are in there.

00:26:43.315 --> 00:26:47.435
I know he does have a stunt double as well, obviously, for some of those moves.

00:26:47.435 --> 00:26:49.195
But it's a very cheeky kind of fight.

00:26:49.195 --> 00:26:51.855
It's different to what we've seen on daredevil before.

00:26:51.955 --> 00:26:59.495
He's doing a lot of very quick moves in order to take the guards out and lock them behind the glass door, which I thought was good fun.

00:26:59.495 --> 00:27:07.575
And then the wonderful moment where he's throwing one guard away and kicks the lift button to open the door at the same time.

00:27:07.575 --> 00:27:08.795
Oh, yeah.

00:27:09.155 --> 00:27:13.795
I know it's very difficult to talk about action sequences on the podcast, but I did really enjoy that moment.

00:27:13.795 --> 00:27:20.575
It did feel like, as you mentioned on the 101 podcast, John, it felt like that kind of Tai Chi sped up.

00:27:20.675 --> 00:27:25.675
It felt like the dance, using his body movement to take out much stronger, more powerful people.

00:27:25.855 --> 00:27:29.935
It's a lot lighter compared to dirdevil.

00:27:29.935 --> 00:27:33.275
dirdevil is a much more brutish kind of fighting style.

00:27:34.075 --> 00:27:35.495
Yeah, it's much lighter.

00:27:35.675 --> 00:27:40.055
He's much soberer than Jessica Jones' form of fighting.

00:27:41.155 --> 00:27:45.415
And he's got less anger than, say, Luke Cage has.

00:27:45.415 --> 00:27:48.655
Luke Cage has a bit of fury in him, I think.

00:27:49.935 --> 00:27:57.035
And, of course, it is really kind of, again, boxing and street level, sort of survival kind of fighting.

00:27:57.175 --> 00:27:59.555
And this is definitely lighter.

00:27:59.555 --> 00:28:06.975
And, you know, you can see it move from, again, the meditation and the slow Tai Chi movements in the park.

00:28:06.975 --> 00:28:09.595
And you see it being sped up there.

00:28:09.595 --> 00:28:14.555
And I really enjoyed him tapping the call button for the elevator.

00:28:14.555 --> 00:28:16.015
I thought that was a nice little touch.

00:28:17.255 --> 00:28:21.515
And, yeah, I mean, I really thought it was good.

00:28:21.515 --> 00:28:31.655
And even, I think, with some of the other fights, you know, I loved how when, is it the security guards again come after him after he's been to Colleen Wings?

00:28:32.795 --> 00:28:33.675
Shannon, that's it.

00:28:33.675 --> 00:28:42.055
And he, you know, he runs away and he just skips up, like, a really tall wall down one of the alleyways.

00:28:42.295 --> 00:28:44.415
And one of the other guards is chasing after him.

00:28:44.495 --> 00:28:50.175
And I actually just loved the idea then he kind of looks up and it's like, OK, how do I get up this?

00:28:50.175 --> 00:28:52.955
Whereas for Danny Rand, it's like a hop, skip and a jump.

00:28:53.355 --> 00:28:56.255
And even getting into his old house.

00:28:56.375 --> 00:28:59.915
I absolutely loved the way he kind of floated up to the what?

00:29:00.315 --> 00:29:02.615
The first or second floor of that.

00:29:02.615 --> 00:29:12.375
And I was also thinking, ow, when, you know, he uses the spike of the railings around the house to kind of like lift off up the side of the house.

00:29:12.495 --> 00:29:20.575
I just that's kind of like that was visually like stubbing my toe on the side of a table.

00:29:20.575 --> 00:29:23.035
But I thought that was really cool.

00:29:23.855 --> 00:29:26.115
That lightness to the fighting.

00:29:26.115 --> 00:29:30.495
I definitely agree with you on that, particularly on that scene, because that's kind of the first time we see his powers as such.

00:29:30.495 --> 00:29:34.215
The rest of them seem like they are just martial arts skills.

00:29:34.215 --> 00:29:35.895
That's where he jumps and gets into the apartment.

00:29:35.895 --> 00:29:39.115
It feels almost preternatural, I guess you call it.

00:29:39.215 --> 00:29:43.055
It's kind of sort of supernatural, but not unbelievable.

00:29:43.055 --> 00:29:44.255
A really well shot scene again.

00:29:44.255 --> 00:29:48.255
I think it's David Armstrong that did all those kind of moves for him.

00:29:48.255 --> 00:29:49.135
Really good job.

00:29:49.135 --> 00:29:50.415
So it's slightly sped up.

00:29:50.415 --> 00:29:57.775
It feels slightly unlike a human, but it doesn't feel unrealistic, which is a difficult balance to do on a show, on a TV show.

00:29:58.075 --> 00:29:58.275
Yeah.

00:29:58.275 --> 00:30:09.815
And I think from my opinion, this fight style and potentially that scene in general, it's all going to be about precision and agility.

00:30:09.815 --> 00:30:18.575
So when he was in that first fight at Rand Corp, he was so precise that he wasn't completely hurting them.

00:30:18.575 --> 00:30:19.155
He wasn't.

00:30:19.155 --> 00:30:28.135
He was just kind of disarming them and moving them out of his way with those kind of sweeps lefts and then those kind of holds in such a way.

00:30:28.135 --> 00:30:43.195
Like what I want to see is where we're going to get fights later on, probably in season, episode two, episode three, four, who knows, where he does potentially lose some of that precision and that control.

00:30:43.195 --> 00:30:45.275
That's going to be very interesting.

00:30:45.275 --> 00:30:47.015
And then the agility bit.

00:30:47.015 --> 00:30:47.315
Okay.

00:30:47.315 --> 00:30:55.395
So the spike bit got annoyed me because I was like, well, hold on, how would he, he weighs like, what, a buck 80.

00:30:55.395 --> 00:30:59.715
There's no way he's not his foot's not going to get like somewhat jammed in there.

00:30:59.715 --> 00:31:05.875
I was like, unless he's like been walking barefoot, well, potentially for like 18 years.

00:31:05.875 --> 00:31:07.915
He was walking around New York City barefoot.

00:31:07.915 --> 00:31:09.995
Do you know how much glass is on the streets of New York?

00:31:09.995 --> 00:31:14.015
Do you know how many syringes are on the streets of New York?

00:31:14.015 --> 00:31:18.195
I was like, dude, like, think of the badness.

00:31:18.355 --> 00:31:22.695
I did like the, I did like the running gag of everybody asking him, why doesn't he just buy some shoes?

00:31:22.695 --> 00:31:25.115
You know, if he thinks he's a billionaire, buy some shoes for him.

00:31:25.115 --> 00:31:26.015
Yeah, exactly.

00:31:26.015 --> 00:31:28.635
If you want to give that two dollars back to me, how about you buy some shoes?

00:31:28.635 --> 00:31:30.335
Yeah, that's a running gag.

00:31:30.335 --> 00:31:37.435
And then just kind of continuing on in the agility bit, as you said, it was Armstrong, probably his stunt double and stuff.

00:31:37.435 --> 00:31:50.055
And I think I want to see more of that because of the, yeah, it looks so, as you said, pretty natural that it was almost too soon to see it for me.

00:31:50.315 --> 00:31:55.955
In other words, I haven't, if they hadn't, like, I don't know, I don't know.

00:31:55.955 --> 00:32:03.015
It was like, I think I just want to see more use case of, of maybe like him using that in a fight.

00:32:03.015 --> 00:32:05.015
So doing like a flip or something.

00:32:05.015 --> 00:32:05.415
Definitely.

00:32:05.415 --> 00:32:08.375
If they hadn't done that, I then showed him jumping and scaling.

00:32:08.375 --> 00:32:09.655
I was like, okay, great.

00:32:09.655 --> 00:32:11.215
I think this episode needed it though.

00:32:11.215 --> 00:32:18.395
I'm sure we'll get on to what our final thoughts about the episode were later on, but I think this episode needed moments like that, so you could see something coming up in the future.

00:32:18.995 --> 00:32:20.035
Yes, absolutely.

00:32:20.035 --> 00:32:34.495
But I think, I must say, I did feel that we're talking about a fight with Rancourt and Shannon and the guards there, and there were other encounters along the way as well.

00:32:34.495 --> 00:33:08.895
I kind of, and maybe this is coming to another point, which is him meeting Colleen Wing, but I felt that it would have been good to have seen those two go head to head in her club, to really get a full idea or range of what he can do up against another person who's proficient and master, who's proficient in these martial arts.

00:33:09.315 --> 00:33:10.855
I thought that would have been really good to see.

00:33:10.855 --> 00:33:23.955
I mean, it's not so much of an issue that I didn't, but I mean, I kind of felt that it was building to that, even just the fact that he comes in and challenges the dojo.

00:33:23.955 --> 00:33:29.015
The moment that she rejects the challenge, just my face dropped to go, no, don't reject the challenge, fight him.

00:33:29.015 --> 00:33:32.295
And I was actually thinking, can she?

00:33:32.295 --> 00:33:45.495
Is there a, I really need to check this up, obviously, and I'll check it up for the next podcast, but I mean, is there a protocol that is so kind of maybe rigid in that, that she can't do that?

00:33:45.595 --> 00:33:51.035
I kind of had that feeling that that would be the case, and then it just pulled away.

00:33:51.035 --> 00:33:55.335
Yeah, I think the joke about it is that, shut up, Danny, you're in New York.

00:33:55.335 --> 00:33:58.015
You don't get to challenge somebody in their dojo as a master.

00:33:58.015 --> 00:34:02.715
I train people to do martial arts, and this isn't the ancient orient.

00:34:02.715 --> 00:34:11.375
But I think that's where it would have been really, really good to have shown that to some extent.

00:34:11.575 --> 00:34:16.595
But let's talk about Jessica Henwick as Colin Wing, because that is one of her other points that we have.

00:34:16.595 --> 00:34:18.035
I really do like her in this episode.

00:34:18.035 --> 00:34:21.215
I like how she's just trying to get rid of Danny the whole time.

00:34:21.475 --> 00:34:24.335
I like that interaction between the two of them.

00:34:24.335 --> 00:34:29.835
They're very connected characters in the comic book, and we know she's going to perform a central part of the show.

00:34:29.835 --> 00:34:34.815
I do like that there's that kind of interplay with them, that they don't form a friendship straight off the bat.

00:34:34.815 --> 00:34:42.715
She seems to have money problems in the show, Colin Wing's character seems to be holding classes all the time to try and keep her head above water.

00:34:42.715 --> 00:34:55.415
A very simple solution here is she finds out that Danny's a martial artist and gives him some classes to train in her dojo, and then boom, money problem solved, because he could probably sort out some of the problems she's having in the dojo.

00:34:55.895 --> 00:34:59.175
Is his gag to her about do you teach kung fu classes?

00:34:59.175 --> 00:35:04.655
Is that supposed to be that people will come for kung fu, but won't come from other martial arts because they know kung fu better?

00:35:04.755 --> 00:35:05.675
Yeah, I think so.

00:35:06.595 --> 00:35:10.155
I think it's the idea that you should do kung fu.

00:35:10.155 --> 00:35:11.655
It will get more people in.

00:35:11.655 --> 00:35:13.235
Absolutely.

00:35:13.235 --> 00:35:16.415
And certainly I like their initial encounter in the park.

00:35:16.415 --> 00:35:26.715
I like that kind of waltz around the billboard where she keeps edging around it to get away from him, to shut him off, and he just goes the other way.

00:35:28.075 --> 00:35:37.915
I like the fact that it is a bit frosty from her, and she's kind of like, I don't want to get into this, what are you doing?

00:35:37.915 --> 00:35:48.275
But then I do like the fact that obviously, with him being attacked when he leaves her club, that she follows him, but she doesn't help.

00:35:48.275 --> 00:35:52.975
And I think you said it, Derek, that she was just like watching him.

00:35:52.975 --> 00:35:55.355
I like that.

00:35:55.595 --> 00:36:05.395
I like the fact that all of a sudden, her intrigue has been pipped here and she kind of goes on the journey.

00:36:05.395 --> 00:36:13.775
I mean, just that shot of her at the top of that huge wall that Danny's just scaled and the guy that's been chasing after him.

00:36:13.775 --> 00:36:14.255
Yeah.

00:36:14.255 --> 00:36:15.195
I thought that was cool.

00:36:15.195 --> 00:36:25.475
I thought that was a really cool shot of her standing on top of the wall with the practice sword, just watching.

00:36:25.475 --> 00:36:25.955
Absolutely.

00:36:25.955 --> 00:36:26.995
Do you remember that?

00:36:27.055 --> 00:36:37.175
The Simpsons episode, Chris, where the mob get attacked by some Chinese guys outside Homer's house and Marge drags them back inside and he goes, no, the guy over there in the suit is going to do something cool.

00:36:37.175 --> 00:36:38.355
I have to see it.

00:36:38.355 --> 00:36:48.815
That's what Colleen Wing felt like in this episode where she's got her white samurai sword hanging at her side looking after Danny and she's standing on the top of the wall and you're going, she's got to do something cool in a second.

00:36:48.815 --> 00:36:50.315
Oh, okay.

00:36:50.315 --> 00:36:51.115
Maybe next episode.

00:36:51.835 --> 00:36:53.495
Yeah, that's what I was like.

00:36:53.495 --> 00:36:54.155
Oh, she's going to jump.

00:36:54.155 --> 00:36:55.955
She's going to jump.

00:36:55.955 --> 00:36:57.575
I was like superhero landing.

00:36:57.575 --> 00:36:58.155
No.

00:36:58.175 --> 00:36:58.975
Okay.

00:36:58.975 --> 00:36:59.475
All right.

00:36:59.475 --> 00:37:00.275
Okay, maybe not.

00:37:00.275 --> 00:37:07.375
But it is funny that you mentioned their initial meeting, John, where she's sticking up the poster for her martial arts school.

00:37:07.375 --> 00:37:20.655
Because that's how we were introduced to Colleen Wing and the little Easter egg in Luke Cage where Claire Temple picks up the tickets to go to take martial arts or take self-defense courses from Colleen Wing.

00:37:21.235 --> 00:37:26.935
Was anybody else staring at every single poster on that going, who would be the guy that's training acoustic guitar?

00:37:26.935 --> 00:37:28.715
Is that another superhero?

00:37:28.715 --> 00:37:30.935
Does Moon Knight do acoustic guitar?

00:37:30.935 --> 00:37:32.315
Yeah, absolutely.

00:37:32.315 --> 00:37:38.375
And I wonder, is that how Claire Temple is going to be introduced?

00:37:38.375 --> 00:37:40.055
Is that she will turn up there?

00:37:40.275 --> 00:37:43.215
Because of that link to Luke Cage.

00:37:43.215 --> 00:37:47.295
Obviously, you know, is that link into this?

00:37:47.295 --> 00:37:50.955
Yeah, she's either taking self-defense courses or she's at the AA meeting after everything she's seen.

00:37:50.955 --> 00:37:52.115
Well, yeah, that's true.

00:37:52.115 --> 00:37:53.535
So is that answer?

00:37:53.535 --> 00:38:07.035
For me, Colleen, the introduction of Colleen, I liked, it was over very quick and I think it was, I would have liked more banter there very quickly, but I suppose, see, I think I'm almost wanting too much too quickly at this point.

00:38:07.035 --> 00:38:09.755
I think the pacing was correct.

00:38:09.755 --> 00:38:13.315
The overall banter in the studio was fantastic.

00:38:13.315 --> 00:38:20.095
That was me seeing Danny at his most boyish grin charm that I liked.

00:38:22.175 --> 00:38:26.635
And then her throwing in the shoes, I thought that was great.

00:38:26.635 --> 00:38:41.515
The chase after, so there was a bit that kind of, I don't know whether I blinked and I missed it, but after the chase, when she's in the crowd staring at him and he turns around and tries to see her, does he not see her or does he see her?

00:38:42.355 --> 00:38:43.155
He doesn't see her.

00:38:43.155 --> 00:38:49.895
He's aware there's someone else watching him, I think, because you get a sense that Danny Rand does have an awareness around him.

00:38:49.895 --> 00:38:59.535
When the other members that were sent by ward, the other security guards were sent by them, you can tell that he's kind of able to sense that they're close a little bit.

00:38:59.715 --> 00:39:00.975
Almost like a spidey sense.

00:39:00.975 --> 00:39:02.595
Kind of like that, yeah.

00:39:02.595 --> 00:39:04.955
Probably not as powerful as spidey sense.

00:39:04.955 --> 00:39:05.735
A dragon sense.

00:39:05.735 --> 00:39:07.655
A dragon sense.

00:39:07.655 --> 00:39:15.235
But you kind of get that feeling that he's noticed that Colleen's around, but she disappears into the ground before he makes eye contact with her.

00:39:15.235 --> 00:39:16.655
Okay.

00:39:16.655 --> 00:39:18.015
I questioned that.

00:39:18.015 --> 00:39:23.655
I was like, why would she not go up and see is he okay or what was happening?

00:39:23.655 --> 00:39:28.355
Or like, well, you just got chased by a load of men and got shots fired at you.

00:39:28.355 --> 00:39:28.995
What did you?

00:39:28.995 --> 00:39:30.315
No, nothing like that.

00:39:30.315 --> 00:39:33.615
Maybe, but she may have been like that.

00:39:33.615 --> 00:39:36.995
I don't know whether I would approach someone who had just been shot at.

00:39:38.455 --> 00:39:43.875
I suppose, actually, I would be putting myself in a situation that I wouldn't like.

00:39:43.875 --> 00:39:45.835
Yeah, I don't really want to get involved in it.

00:39:45.835 --> 00:39:49.955
No, actually, to be fair, I'm thinking about it like some guy just got shot out of New York.

00:39:49.955 --> 00:39:51.895
He'd be like, yep, I'm walking away.

00:39:51.895 --> 00:39:52.555
Absolutely.

00:39:52.575 --> 00:40:06.155
I would be like, okay, I should just get into the sewer system here just to escape or something or nipping up one of the fire escapes up the side of the buildings.

00:40:06.155 --> 00:40:13.835
But I just want to come back, actually, Chris, on your pacing that you said you thought the pacing was good.

00:40:13.855 --> 00:40:16.155
I would agree with you now.

00:40:16.155 --> 00:40:24.015
We've watched it twice and actually the first time watching it, maybe it wasn't so much the pacing, actually.

00:40:24.015 --> 00:40:25.735
Maybe it wasn't so much the pacing.

00:40:25.735 --> 00:40:33.655
But obviously, this is a very tonally different Marvel Netflix show compared to daredevil.

00:40:33.655 --> 00:40:45.495
Certainly, you know, if you think that he's been trained in martial arts, the spirituality and so on of Buddhism, he will not want to kill, for example.

00:40:45.495 --> 00:40:50.915
You know, that idea of killing his enemies would be pulled back.

00:40:51.035 --> 00:40:54.835
I mean, in the same way that as daredevil, but daredevil doesn't mind.

00:40:54.835 --> 00:41:00.055
It's not that he wants to kill them, but he certainly doesn't mind beating them to the point of death.

00:41:00.055 --> 00:41:00.555
Yeah.

00:41:00.555 --> 00:41:04.215
And obviously, it's a much bloodier kind of thing.

00:41:04.215 --> 00:41:05.455
But he will not kill them.

00:41:05.455 --> 00:41:06.335
That's the big...

00:41:06.335 --> 00:41:22.215
Yeah, I did feel it was quite pulled back and quite restrained and this first episode, certainly when I watched it the first time, it felt like it was warming up in terms of that pacing being...

00:41:22.395 --> 00:41:26.515
I felt a little slow in terms of what it did.

00:41:26.515 --> 00:41:32.875
I thought the returns back to Central Park, I think we saw him there three times with Big Al.

00:41:32.875 --> 00:41:33.755
I thought that...

00:41:33.755 --> 00:41:37.455
I didn't know whether they needed to do that as much.

00:41:37.455 --> 00:41:38.195
I thought...

00:41:38.195 --> 00:41:46.395
But then maybe there is something there, obviously, that is bigger than that and, of course, I think we will be coming on to that.

00:41:46.515 --> 00:41:55.075
But it was only in watching it a second time that actually I connected with the show.

00:41:55.075 --> 00:42:10.655
I think that's just coming back to me, that the comparison with the previous shows, I think is inevitable and I did feel it was fairly pulled back, but I liked it.

00:42:10.655 --> 00:42:11.495
Don't sell yourself short.

00:42:12.395 --> 00:42:17.695
I personally felt this seemed like episode five or six of some of the other shows.

00:42:17.695 --> 00:42:19.935
It felt like the exposition episode.

00:42:19.935 --> 00:42:21.555
I know they're trying to set up a new world here.

00:42:21.555 --> 00:42:23.695
I know this is the upper East side of New York.

00:42:23.695 --> 00:42:24.455
It's all about money.

00:42:24.455 --> 00:42:27.015
It's all about the one percenters versus the homeless guy.

00:42:27.015 --> 00:42:38.895
That's a lot of the storyline that's going on in this episode, but it felt like it didn't have, and sorry about the pun, but it didn't have the punch I would have expected from Iron Fist, the Marvel TV show.

00:42:38.895 --> 00:42:40.595
It felt like it needed a big moment.

00:42:40.675 --> 00:42:48.035
You know, Jessica Jones had that big moment right at the end of the episode that kind of stated its claim and said, this is going to be a difficult show to watch.

00:42:48.035 --> 00:42:53.615
You've just seen a girl shoot her two parents in a lift, and I'm about to walk away, but actually I won't.

00:42:53.615 --> 00:43:06.295
Each of the shows has had a big moment in their first episode that goes, this is who we are, this is what we're here to do, and I felt this episode was more, here are our characters, follow us for episode two, and you want to know more about the characters.

00:43:06.295 --> 00:43:07.175
Do you know what I mean?

00:43:07.175 --> 00:43:07.535
No, I do.

00:43:08.355 --> 00:43:08.755
100%.

00:43:09.435 --> 00:43:15.935
So, the pacing, I think I was more just kind of, it was good.

00:43:15.935 --> 00:43:17.315
I won't say great, but it was good.

00:43:17.315 --> 00:43:19.775
Yeah, I agree with you now, definitely.

00:43:19.775 --> 00:43:24.055
Yeah, after the second watch, I think the pacing was cool.

00:43:24.055 --> 00:43:35.235
And then I think that they tried to cram so much character into it, that it missed that moment.

00:43:35.835 --> 00:43:43.475
And I think what we're there, I don't know, I got a feeling it was almost like Boston Eagle.

00:43:43.475 --> 00:43:54.895
If you kind of get my draft, in terms of, it was like, this is all going to be about Rand Corp and Rand Enterprises and the fight in there and the Meachums and oh no, he stole his business, blah, blah, blah.

00:43:54.895 --> 00:43:59.315
That was almost, they focused so much on the characters.

00:43:59.315 --> 00:44:04.995
They forgot about actually setting a full world and giving us that.

00:44:04.995 --> 00:44:07.255
Here we are planting your flag.

00:44:07.255 --> 00:44:09.295
You are going to get supernatural.

00:44:09.295 --> 00:44:10.515
You're going to get Chi.

00:44:10.515 --> 00:44:14.035
You're going to get, like, we'll get to it later.

00:44:14.035 --> 00:44:25.815
But when Ward went upstairs behind locked doors and stuff, I was like, oh great, we're going to get the evil potentially hand.

00:44:25.815 --> 00:44:27.315
We're going to get Madame Gaia.

00:44:27.315 --> 00:44:29.655
We're going to get like straight away.

00:44:29.655 --> 00:44:34.915
And then they had another reveal, but it wasn't as, as I wanted.

00:44:34.915 --> 00:44:37.095
Yeah, I think we should get into that.

00:44:37.095 --> 00:44:42.275
Yeah, I think we should get into that in terms of our fourth point, definitely in terms of Meet the Meachums.

00:44:43.615 --> 00:44:46.855
I would, I completely agree with you on that, Chris.

00:44:46.855 --> 00:44:57.075
I think that if you, like, I actually thought David Wenham was really cool as Harold Meachum, actually.

00:44:57.075 --> 00:44:58.295
I really liked him.

00:44:58.295 --> 00:45:00.235
I loved how he treated Ward.

00:45:00.915 --> 00:45:01.835
And I'm not surprised he did.

00:45:01.835 --> 00:45:05.675
Wouldn't we all want to treat Ward like an absolute dick?

00:45:05.675 --> 00:45:08.015
To be honest, what did they say?

00:45:08.015 --> 00:45:10.655
He was a dick as a kid and a dick now.

00:45:10.655 --> 00:45:16.755
I mean, he's played really well as that nasty douchebag.

00:45:21.575 --> 00:45:28.175
I really enjoyed the character because he's played so obnoxiously.

00:45:28.175 --> 00:45:33.775
And I really liked David Wenham in terms of his treatment, and you can kind of see why Ward is like he is.

00:45:33.775 --> 00:45:46.015
But I kind of felt that, well, we knew he wasn't dead because like that's the thing, the reveal wasn't really a reveal because we knew David Wenham was Harold Meachum in the show.

00:45:46.015 --> 00:45:50.535
And he was being touted as being dead, yet we've seen him in the trailer.

00:45:50.535 --> 00:45:58.235
And if you think of how they kept Vincent D'Onofrio secret for the second season of Der Davel.

00:46:00.215 --> 00:46:06.375
And some of the other withholds that the Marvel Netflix have done.

00:46:06.555 --> 00:46:18.355
I just feel that, do you know, I almost wish they hadn't even advertised or marketed the fact that David Wenham was in it.

00:46:18.355 --> 00:46:24.095
Yeah, the character really doesn't matter to fans of the comic books.

00:46:24.095 --> 00:46:26.755
Nobody really knows Harold Meachum that much.

00:46:26.915 --> 00:46:33.835
They kind of know him, but it doesn't matter if you've created Ward and Joy Meachum as the two characters who are the protagonists of the show.

00:46:33.835 --> 00:46:43.175
And to have that reveal that he's dead at the beginning, because it's a newspaper article that Danny reads, and then to have it revealed 10 minutes later, oh no, he's not dead.

00:46:43.175 --> 00:46:44.715
It felt like, okay, that's that.

00:46:44.715 --> 00:46:48.135
You didn't need the reveal that he was dead and then that he wasn't.

00:46:48.135 --> 00:46:52.875
It could have said nothing and just have Ward go to Harold Meachum's house and meet him.

00:46:52.895 --> 00:47:04.175
And I'm presuming one of the things that I did think came out of it when we were just watching the episodes, it does feel like Joy, Joy Meachum, the daughter, doesn't realize that Harold's alive.

00:47:04.475 --> 00:47:11.475
There's something about her interactions with Danny that she seems to think that Harold is dead, maybe Ward's the only one that knows.

00:47:11.475 --> 00:47:13.415
No, absolutely.

00:47:14.635 --> 00:47:24.815
I really want to see how that plays out because Ward and Joy, they seem like they're quite close as two siblings.

00:47:25.715 --> 00:47:34.255
Yet, the flashback to them on top of the roof, she realized that teenager Ward was being nasty to the young Danny.

00:47:34.255 --> 00:47:48.215
She's the one that is doubting the word of her brother to some extent, or maybe she's not because ultimately she does act against Danny by drugging him later on.

00:47:48.415 --> 00:47:56.815
But, you know, she seems the one that is the most accessible for the audience in terms of normality.

00:47:57.175 --> 00:48:09.055
And I do think that kind of revelation to her, if potentially we're going to get that her dad is not dead, I think is going to be really interesting.

00:48:09.155 --> 00:48:11.875
I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how that plays out.

00:48:11.875 --> 00:48:12.635
Absolutely.

00:48:13.055 --> 00:48:17.735
Yeah, as I said, the reveal was like, oh, and I think that's the best way of putting it.

00:48:17.735 --> 00:48:20.455
My heart kind of went, like, okay, cool.

00:48:20.455 --> 00:48:21.635
I can kind of guess.

00:48:21.635 --> 00:48:27.795
There is some comic book precedents as to Harold Meachum and the importance he plays.

00:48:27.795 --> 00:48:29.135
I'm not going to get into it.

00:48:29.135 --> 00:48:29.915
Absolutely, Chris.

00:48:29.915 --> 00:48:31.995
And I know we did talk about it in the 101.

00:48:31.995 --> 00:48:37.955
Sorry, I didn't want, I did think when I was saying that earlier on that that might come across incorrectly.

00:48:37.955 --> 00:48:43.815
What I meant was, I know he has a huge part to play in the comic books because I'm definitely aware of that storyline.

00:48:43.815 --> 00:48:44.495
Yeah.

00:48:44.495 --> 00:48:49.155
Not going to talk about it because I think it will spoil the later parts of the show.

00:48:49.155 --> 00:48:55.195
I don't think they set it up correctly in the show to have any relevance to an audience who's watching for the first time.

00:48:55.195 --> 00:48:56.295
Exactly.

00:48:56.295 --> 00:48:57.975
And that is my problem with this.

00:48:58.195 --> 00:48:58.555
Yeah.

00:48:58.555 --> 00:49:00.615
My problem with the Meachum.

00:49:00.975 --> 00:49:05.555
I have problems with the whole Meachum element of this show so far.

00:49:05.555 --> 00:49:07.875
Okay.

00:49:07.875 --> 00:49:10.955
Joy's character was like, they set her up for...

00:49:10.955 --> 00:49:13.435
Well, first, I'm going to go through Joy first.

00:49:13.435 --> 00:49:25.395
Joy's character was set up as the doubting sister that kind of, she was, didn't, she seemed a bit more, well, maybe it is, Danny, she was softer, and then she got harder.

00:49:25.395 --> 00:49:42.335
And basically, by the end of the first episode, her standing over Danny, I was like, well, maybe, okay, no, they've just tried to sell her to me as this more soulful character who's potentially open to helping Danny and talking to Danny.

00:49:42.335 --> 00:49:44.855
Oh no, no, she's just another bad guy.

00:49:44.855 --> 00:49:45.575
Yeah, absolutely.

00:49:45.575 --> 00:49:49.875
But I don't think the selling her as the opposite of Ward.

00:49:50.075 --> 00:49:55.015
I think there's a loyalty there to him as the brother.

00:49:55.015 --> 00:49:58.655
And I suppose, I know, I mean, I think she's the most accessible.

00:49:58.655 --> 00:50:03.415
She's obviously the doubting Thomas kind of, you know, she is questioning it.

00:50:03.415 --> 00:50:07.515
But then also, I think she is kind of with her brother.

00:50:07.515 --> 00:50:14.255
So I think she's still possibly good and she'll be the first to accept Danny.

00:50:14.255 --> 00:50:16.835
But I think it takes it will take time.

00:50:16.835 --> 00:50:21.975
Yeah, because he also did break into our house, which would freak probably anyone in that sense.

00:50:21.975 --> 00:50:23.295
That's potentially true.

00:50:23.295 --> 00:50:23.775
Yeah.

00:50:23.775 --> 00:50:26.195
No, I think Ward does make a very good point.

00:50:26.475 --> 00:50:31.935
If they are going through a business expansion and someone's coming in to undermine the business, that's a very good point.

00:50:32.195 --> 00:50:40.235
That will turn you around pretty quickly from thinking, this blond-haired person is the same blond-haired person that I thought died 15 years ago.

00:50:40.355 --> 00:50:55.715
If you put that in context, if you've had a funeral and you're now living in the house of someone that you think is dead and you were running their business for 15 years, you're probably not going to jump to the conclusion that this person is telling the truth when they pop up on your doorstep and can't prove anything at all.

00:50:55.715 --> 00:51:07.455
I think a person like Joy is probably very willing to accept that Danny is not telling the truth to her, so any opportunity or any explanation given to her will make her change back her opinion.

00:51:08.255 --> 00:51:15.655
While he may know a few things, he doesn't tell her anything, particularly as she says, that he couldn't find out on the Internet.

00:51:15.655 --> 00:51:22.555
He was about to and then said, I broke into your house, basically, which probably didn't set him in the right standing with her.

00:51:22.555 --> 00:51:24.675
Yeah.

00:51:24.675 --> 00:51:26.555
So they're getting on to Ward.

00:51:26.555 --> 00:51:27.515
So they went to...

00:51:27.515 --> 00:51:30.555
The second evil Ward in the Marvel Cinematic Universe after Grant.

00:51:30.555 --> 00:51:32.175
I know, which is great.

00:51:32.175 --> 00:51:36.055
And he is very much second place, in my opinion, right now.

00:51:36.255 --> 00:51:36.995
Absolutely.

00:51:37.455 --> 00:51:45.435
They purposefully went out of their way to show how much of a dick he is.

00:51:45.435 --> 00:51:49.395
To the point it was like, okay, we get it.

00:51:49.395 --> 00:51:51.395
We understand.

00:51:52.515 --> 00:51:57.855
And I want to say, basically, right now, he's a one dimensional character.

00:51:57.855 --> 00:52:01.715
Like he literally is a dick who is subservient to his father.

00:52:01.715 --> 00:52:04.875
That is, that is the, he's commanding and all that.

00:52:05.195 --> 00:52:07.695
There's no depth to his character right now.

00:52:07.695 --> 00:52:10.095
And that is a potential worry for me.

00:52:10.095 --> 00:52:12.455
But I know again, it's the first hour.

00:52:12.455 --> 00:52:13.755
It's going to be fine.

00:52:13.755 --> 00:52:17.255
It's going, he's a good, the actor who plays Ward is fantastic.

00:52:17.255 --> 00:52:20.515
I've seen him in other shows and I think he's going to be able to do it.

00:52:20.515 --> 00:52:28.595
Then finalizing up on Harold, just that the portrayal was great.

00:52:28.595 --> 00:52:30.595
The reveal wasn't necessary at this early.

00:52:30.595 --> 00:52:31.415
Yeah, absolutely.

00:52:31.475 --> 00:52:38.275
Yes, Harold is the name of the cottonmouth and Gow is the diamondback.

00:52:38.275 --> 00:52:41.695
That's how we're going to get it.

00:52:41.735 --> 00:52:48.295
I hope they don't do it like that and I don't think they will.

00:52:48.295 --> 00:52:49.315
Well, maybe they will.

00:52:49.495 --> 00:52:58.455
I don't know, but I hope they don't do it like that because certainly in the trailer, there is that moment where, okay, she's ultimately in control by the looks of it.

00:52:58.455 --> 00:52:59.815
She's giving him instruction.

00:53:02.855 --> 00:53:14.335
Hopefully, we see that, at least we are going to see them working together, which we never saw that with Cottonmouth and Diamondback, really, in any great amount.

00:53:14.995 --> 00:53:19.475
I hope they don't do that to part like they did with Luke Cage.

00:53:19.615 --> 00:53:22.295
I'm not entirely sure that they will.

00:53:22.295 --> 00:53:30.515
I completely agree that I think you could have left Ward on the phone call in his office.

00:53:30.515 --> 00:53:36.095
He didn't need to go over and we didn't need to see him go over there.

00:53:36.095 --> 00:53:40.855
You just needed to see him getting direction from someone external.

00:53:40.855 --> 00:53:45.175
It would have kept Harold Meachum in the background still.

00:53:45.175 --> 00:53:46.475
I should say, we didn't need to see him.

00:53:48.135 --> 00:53:52.655
Maybe just to add a little more depth to the story line that he's supposed to be dead for 10 years.

00:53:52.655 --> 00:54:10.055
Then even how they introduced Kingpin so late in daredevil in the first season, keeping that back, that shadowy figure, because we could have just thought it was Madame Gale from the trailer.

00:54:10.055 --> 00:54:11.715
Yeah, exactly.

00:54:12.375 --> 00:54:15.295
Even though as well, I suppose we had seen him in the trailer.

00:54:15.295 --> 00:54:25.455
Again, that's why I think they should have just been a little less liberal with how they had used David Wenham in this and I think in the trailers.

00:54:25.455 --> 00:54:32.735
Leave his role a bit more of a mystery, whereas it's been put there on a plate really early on and maybe that's fine.

00:54:32.735 --> 00:54:49.335
Maybe this needs to be done like that because the way the story is going to evolve is going to be much quicker through to Madame Gao and Steel Serpent, Drugs and this impending threat to New York City.

00:54:51.295 --> 00:54:57.075
To wrap this point because I want to go on to spend one more piece to our final point.

00:54:57.075 --> 00:55:15.555
But I wonder if the pacing and everything about this show was done because, and we mentioned this on the 101, could this be because Iron Fist is potentially the least known character to everyone?

00:55:15.555 --> 00:55:22.775
In that it's the Asian connection, it's the Dragon, it's the Iron Fist.

00:55:22.775 --> 00:55:26.375
People probably wouldn't have known who he was initially.

00:55:26.375 --> 00:55:33.215
So I think they need to get, this is almost like, this is what you're gonna get, like throw everything at you and trying to get in one episode.

00:55:33.215 --> 00:55:35.975
I wish that's what they were doing, Chris, and that's kind of my point.

00:55:36.715 --> 00:55:46.975
I promise we'll save some of this for a wrap up, but kind of my point about the episode was, I wish that they had thrown everything at the screen and shown you what you were gonna get in the series.

00:55:46.975 --> 00:55:55.215
At the moment, this feels like we've got a guy with martial arts who's in a courtroom drama, as you said, or in a business drama.

00:55:55.215 --> 00:55:56.495
And that's kind of all we got.

00:55:56.495 --> 00:56:01.835
We didn't guess everything on the screen about, well, there's a dragon and there's an ancient city.

00:56:02.275 --> 00:56:04.135
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:56:04.135 --> 00:56:06.475
If they throw on all of that stuff in the episode.

00:56:06.635 --> 00:56:09.415
And that's of course a very difficult balance to do.

00:56:09.415 --> 00:56:10.055
Absolutely.

00:56:10.055 --> 00:56:20.515
And I think the idea of having the fight with Colleen and maybe having him then, you know, chased from there by these three assailants.

00:56:20.515 --> 00:56:31.215
And you don't really introduce Harold Meachum, but you see his hand glow or something like that.

00:56:32.875 --> 00:56:46.715
Even with Danny versus the doggy, you know, when he was doing the Chi thing, I kind of thought, wouldn't it have been nice because you've got both his hands, you know, the camera's focused on both his hands.

00:56:46.715 --> 00:57:02.775
That not a wild, violent glow like when he's really, you know, using it to punch as a ranging kind of weapon, but that you, there was some kind of aura coming from it.

00:57:02.935 --> 00:57:08.975
Do you get that hint because that is what he's about and that would have said, this is Iron Fist.

00:57:08.975 --> 00:57:20.415
And maybe then right at the end, you see that real, that glow of his fist as he's combating, you know, the three security guards.

00:57:20.415 --> 00:57:24.555
And that would have been it's punch, pardon the pun.

00:57:24.555 --> 00:57:26.035
We're gonna be saying that so much.

00:57:26.115 --> 00:57:26.975
We will.

00:57:26.975 --> 00:57:28.895
Some of the other puns we could have missed.

00:57:29.015 --> 00:57:29.415
You know.

00:57:29.415 --> 00:57:39.695
But the other thing I'm wondering, maybe perhaps we have had resurrection in daredevil of one of the major characters connected with Madame Garen, connected with the hand.

00:57:39.695 --> 00:57:50.115
Possibly the reason why we have this early introduction of Harold and the reason he's been in hiding for over 10 years, they say, is potentially he did die of cancer.

00:57:50.115 --> 00:57:51.275
That would be intriguing.

00:57:51.275 --> 00:57:52.555
That would be interesting.

00:57:52.555 --> 00:57:54.235
Yeah, that would be good.

00:57:54.235 --> 00:57:55.035
That would be a good one.

00:57:55.935 --> 00:57:59.855
And now he's indebted to Madam Gayle because she brought him back.

00:57:59.855 --> 00:58:00.195
Yeah.

00:58:00.195 --> 00:58:00.775
Perhaps.

00:58:00.775 --> 00:58:11.655
Okay, that, if that is, that or something similar is the actual twist, I will forgive all sins because then that is...

00:58:11.655 --> 00:58:12.995
I won't forgive all sins for that.

00:58:12.995 --> 00:58:14.475
Not all sins, but most sins.

00:58:14.895 --> 00:58:17.195
But like, that's almost very much a magician.

00:58:17.195 --> 00:58:22.515
Look at my left hand, don't look at my right hand, look at my left hand and then there we go.

00:58:22.855 --> 00:58:23.915
Yeah, that would be good.

00:58:23.995 --> 00:58:27.355
So that is my prediction that will be proven wrong next episode.

00:58:28.555 --> 00:58:30.375
We need to have one for this episode.

00:58:30.375 --> 00:58:37.055
Guys, we're going to move on to our fifth point where we have a small point, really, but it's an interesting one.

00:58:37.055 --> 00:58:47.815
The Central Park re-centering of Danny Rand as he seems to go back and he's in probably the biggest green environment in most of New York, isn't it, Central Park?

00:58:47.815 --> 00:58:51.695
It's a really green environment, really nature environment.

00:58:52.155 --> 00:58:55.255
That's where he keeps going back to re-center himself throughout the episode.

00:58:55.255 --> 00:58:56.235
Not nature-ist.

00:58:56.235 --> 00:58:57.835
Not nature-ist, though.

00:58:57.835 --> 00:58:58.735
That's a bit different.

00:58:58.735 --> 00:59:01.175
Although very late night in Central Park.

00:59:01.315 --> 00:59:06.775
Yeah, I was wondering if that was going to be a problem with where they had set camp.

00:59:06.775 --> 00:59:08.875
But anyway.

00:59:08.875 --> 00:59:13.355
So for me on this, I understood it the first time.

00:59:13.355 --> 00:59:18.995
The second time, I was like, okay, and third time was just a beat on the head.

00:59:20.775 --> 00:59:25.715
We get introduced to Al and I like this big Al.

00:59:25.715 --> 00:59:26.935
I was like, oh, brilliant.

00:59:26.935 --> 00:59:29.475
This is going to be the character.

00:59:29.475 --> 00:59:32.155
He's going to be the centering for Danny.

00:59:33.395 --> 00:59:38.475
He'll be the foggy to Danny to a degree.

00:59:38.475 --> 00:59:38.735
Yeah.

00:59:38.735 --> 00:59:40.015
That's where I thought it was going.

00:59:40.235 --> 00:59:41.355
Or the Hogarth, yeah.

00:59:41.355 --> 00:59:43.215
Or the Hogarth.

00:59:43.215 --> 00:59:46.815
But no, they completely...

00:59:46.815 --> 00:59:56.235
That character had, aside from giving him access to a phone, but why a homeless guy has access to an iPhone and data.

00:59:56.235 --> 00:59:57.815
Oh no, he said he stole it.

00:59:57.815 --> 01:00:04.875
I love that moment where he goes, do you want to search up anything in the internet until the person who I stole it from finds out and cancels the data?

01:00:04.875 --> 01:00:05.575
Good little Jack.

01:00:05.595 --> 01:00:06.635
Okay, I missed that part.

01:00:07.555 --> 01:00:14.675
But I don't think that character was needed aside for that one part and his death was unimpactful to me.

01:00:14.675 --> 01:00:18.075
It was just like, meh, okay, shame.

01:00:18.075 --> 01:00:22.355
I know, I felt really bad because I was watching him thinking, like yourself, this is going to become a major character.

01:00:22.355 --> 01:00:23.855
This is going to be where Danny comes back.

01:00:23.855 --> 01:00:28.655
This guy minds his stuff while Danny's off doing the other things in the city he needs to do.

01:00:29.015 --> 01:00:35.275
He's got some great little lines there, little gag about, I have the internet on my phone, I found my sister, she's still a bitch.

01:00:36.535 --> 01:00:40.155
Nice little gags from him and I thought there was some good interplay between the two characters.

01:00:40.155 --> 01:00:42.035
I thought there was more about him as well.

01:00:42.035 --> 01:00:51.415
He was talking about, historically humans didn't work, they were hunters and gatherers and then money was developed and they went into businesses and they went into buildings.

01:00:51.415 --> 01:00:55.775
Not me, I've kept that and I was going, is he saying he's 10,000 years old here?

01:00:55.775 --> 01:00:58.255
Is he saying there's some big history for him?

01:00:58.255 --> 01:01:00.635
And then it's like, no, no, he's a junkie.

01:01:00.975 --> 01:01:06.995
Yeah, but then with the tattoo with the eagle then as well, that connection there.

01:01:06.995 --> 01:01:09.215
So yeah, I mean, I presume he is dead.

01:01:09.215 --> 01:01:10.295
And I mean, actually-

01:01:10.295 --> 01:01:11.675
There will be something more about him though.

01:01:11.675 --> 01:01:17.935
Yeah, but if he is as well, if he is dead and gone, I mean, I completely agree with you, Chris.

01:01:17.935 --> 01:01:32.235
Like going back so often to the park, to that little center of Central Park, and that those interactions with him just felt then a bit unnecessary.

01:01:32.235 --> 01:01:41.895
That we didn't need four scenes with him, four or five scenes with him, and that interaction.

01:01:41.895 --> 01:01:44.335
Maybe one, and you just leave it at that.

01:01:44.335 --> 01:01:54.555
But I mean, obviously that tattoo has got some significance to Danny channeling his kind of focus and chi into the eagle.

01:01:54.555 --> 01:01:55.675
Oh, I didn't get that.

01:01:55.675 --> 01:02:00.895
I just thought it was like he looked at, I thought it was going to be like, it was just a tattoo.

01:02:00.895 --> 01:02:02.435
Well, it could be, and that's the thing.

01:02:02.715 --> 01:02:10.615
If we don't see him back, then actually that would make that scene even, it would make it even less sense.

01:02:10.615 --> 01:02:15.015
Or somebody else with the tattoo, that's my feeling, either that or Danny's could carry it.

01:02:15.015 --> 01:02:19.875
It's a cult or another order of something.

01:02:20.075 --> 01:02:24.975
It feels like Danny obviously is hiding quite a big tattoo at the moment.

01:02:24.975 --> 01:02:25.515
Yes.

01:02:25.515 --> 01:02:33.115
And the reason why he would particularly pick out the hawk tattoo or the bird tattoo is because he knows somebody else who has that tattoo.

01:02:33.115 --> 01:02:38.275
So if that's connected to the other heavenly cities or something like that, we'll probably find it out later in further episodes.

01:02:38.275 --> 01:02:39.575
But I do think there was a connection there.

01:02:39.575 --> 01:02:41.395
I do think there was a reason for Big Al to be there.

01:02:41.855 --> 01:02:45.795
I just felt in this episode maybe it was too much or shown too often.

01:02:45.795 --> 01:02:55.735
And the other really interesting thing is that he does make the reference to Bleecker Street and when he hands over the deli sandwich to Danny Rand.

01:02:55.735 --> 01:02:57.935
So little Dr.

01:02:57.935 --> 01:03:01.215
Strange easter egg there, Bleecker Street.

01:03:01.215 --> 01:03:01.815
That's where Dr.

01:03:01.815 --> 01:03:02.355
Strange lives.

01:03:02.355 --> 01:03:03.455
That's where the Sanctum Sanctorum is.

01:03:03.455 --> 01:03:04.475
That's where the Sanctum is.

01:03:04.475 --> 01:03:06.915
In case you didn't join us for the Summer of Strange podcasts.

01:03:09.835 --> 01:03:12.895
You need to go back because John was just happy for our entire show.

01:03:13.295 --> 01:03:13.815
I was so happy.

01:03:13.815 --> 01:03:14.515
It was fantastic.

01:03:14.655 --> 01:03:16.375
But that's a little easter egg.

01:03:16.375 --> 01:03:18.655
That's one that I spotted there.

01:03:18.655 --> 01:03:28.615
I picked up a terrible easter egg, which is that when Danny is talking about something strange happening and they need to have a discussion about it, he goes to have some tea with the Meachums.

01:03:28.615 --> 01:03:29.895
That's what he wants to have happen.

01:03:29.895 --> 01:03:32.995
And that's exactly what the Ancient One tries to do with Dr.

01:03:32.995 --> 01:03:33.495
Strange.

01:03:33.675 --> 01:03:40.035
When he comes around to her house and wants to explain something strange, gives him a bit of tea, terribly strikes in this first episode.

01:03:40.035 --> 01:03:40.995
Yes.

01:03:40.995 --> 01:03:41.855
So Central Park.

01:03:41.855 --> 01:03:48.535
So for me, if that tattoo doesn't pan out, then yes, that was completely unnecessary.

01:03:48.535 --> 01:03:56.775
Unless it's like a heavenly body, one of the heavenly cities, and it's a different tattoo, and it's a cult or an order.

01:03:56.775 --> 01:04:03.395
And unless that guy is from one of the cities, and when he was speaking about the 10,000 years, it actually is, it makes sense.

01:04:03.395 --> 01:04:07.535
He's been around for 10,000 years because he's disappearing off into the world.

01:04:07.535 --> 01:04:08.575
Then fantastic.

01:04:08.575 --> 01:04:11.135
If not, I'm like, that was useless.

01:04:11.135 --> 01:04:14.395
But that brings us on to the hawk.

01:04:14.395 --> 01:04:23.515
So I had a massive problem with this because I did not know Iron Fist had a certain connection power.

01:04:23.515 --> 01:04:31.395
So when we see a hawk flying above the skyline and him meditating, I was like, you what?

01:04:31.395 --> 01:04:32.615
Yeah.

01:04:32.615 --> 01:04:36.495
I was like, is he seeing through the eyes of the hawk?

01:04:36.495 --> 01:04:37.195
What?

01:04:37.195 --> 01:04:38.355
Because it didn't explain it.

01:04:38.355 --> 01:04:49.095
I know it was reminding me of Marshall Bravestar, an old 90s or 80s cartoon character who had the eyes of a hawk and could see through the eyes of a hawk.

01:04:49.095 --> 01:04:55.095
Now that I'm thinking about it and now that you're saying it, I had exactly the same issue that you had, Chris, as well while watching the episode.

01:04:55.395 --> 01:04:57.735
But I'm wondering if it was just kind of metaphorical.

01:04:57.735 --> 01:05:02.795
It was just saying that he was able to become one with the animals, become one with nature kind of thing.

01:05:02.795 --> 01:05:09.215
Because he wasn't using the hawk to go and spy on anybody, that would have completely taken me out of it.

01:05:09.215 --> 01:05:12.095
I kind of did at the time, took me out of it a little bit.

01:05:12.095 --> 01:05:22.395
But if he was using the hawk to spy on somebody by communing with it, that's a very different thing than just his relaxation techniques being like flying over the city, if you know what I mean.

01:05:23.435 --> 01:05:26.095
But yeah, I did think it was a bit weird.

01:05:26.095 --> 01:05:29.015
Yeah, it just did not sit with me.

01:05:30.255 --> 01:05:35.255
Yeah, it just took me out of it enough to I was like, what?

01:05:36.415 --> 01:05:39.915
It was almost like that sound internally, mentally in my head.

01:05:39.915 --> 01:05:43.315
It just went, my path, my brain just went, nope, we're out of here.

01:05:43.315 --> 01:05:43.635
We're done.

01:05:43.915 --> 01:05:53.715
But overall, I don't see the significance, unless that becomes his sanctuary and he stays in Central Park.

01:05:53.715 --> 01:06:02.155
So he's part of that green, part of that nature, then it is a wasted time.

01:06:02.775 --> 01:06:06.795
Two scenes are wasted completely.

01:06:06.795 --> 01:06:10.475
So guys, I think that's our five points.

01:06:11.395 --> 01:06:12.615
I think we all have a few notes.

01:06:13.295 --> 01:06:16.495
So do we want to just kind of go through some of our notes?

01:06:16.495 --> 01:06:18.235
Yeah, definitely.

01:06:18.235 --> 01:06:25.615
We have doggy Danny facing his doggy double in his old house.

01:06:25.615 --> 01:06:29.835
If you have not been with us over on our Facebook group, this may be difficult.

01:06:29.835 --> 01:06:32.175
Yes, it may be difficult to understand.

01:06:32.175 --> 01:06:51.855
But there is a suggestion that with his raggedy hair and his big bushy beard, and certainly one of the trailer scenes where the axe or some kind of weapon flies past him, and he looks at it and whizzes past it as it flies past him.

01:06:52.935 --> 01:07:02.775
There's a little cute fluffy doggy there in Danny Rand, and here we have him facing his doggy double in terms of, I think it was a Rottweiler.

01:07:02.775 --> 01:07:05.795
He's able to commune with the dog.

01:07:06.135 --> 01:07:21.755
I think that's similar then with the hawk, that maybe he's using the chi, using that power to control, get inside and impose his will on this dog.

01:07:21.755 --> 01:07:22.175
And the dog...

01:07:22.175 --> 01:07:24.095
I'm one with the chi.

01:07:24.095 --> 01:07:25.495
The chi is with me, is that?

01:07:25.495 --> 01:07:27.535
Maybe, possibly.

01:07:27.555 --> 01:07:35.015
And so, yeah, I really like this little face off with Danny Rand and the dog.

01:07:35.015 --> 01:07:42.115
So I will have to say to Rebecca and Claire, Claire from defenders Podcast and Rebecca from our group.

01:07:42.115 --> 01:07:51.015
Because of their discussions for the last three and a half months, when this scene came up in the first episode of Iron Fist, I couldn't stop laughing.

01:07:51.015 --> 01:07:55.955
The idea that they've included a scene of doggie Rand communing with another dog made me laugh.

01:07:55.955 --> 01:07:57.515
So that one for you guys.

01:07:57.515 --> 01:08:00.555
Most of our other listeners will have no idea why we find it hilarious.

01:08:00.555 --> 01:08:05.275
No, but I think maybe we should put up that little gif on to the Facebook group.

01:08:06.595 --> 01:08:13.035
We briefly discussed in our 101, every title is a martial arts move.

01:08:14.515 --> 01:08:19.955
We were looking up this one, so the title of this episode is Snow Gives Way.

01:08:19.955 --> 01:08:26.895
It seems it is a move from the Shaolin Kung Fu.

01:08:27.715 --> 01:08:30.035
I tried to look it up.

01:08:30.035 --> 01:08:52.215
If Google Images is correct, then it is a move where you're down with one leg stretched out, one down kind of like you're doing a lunge with your knee close, and one arm kind of extended out to the side, palm down, and the other forward with like an almost come at me man kind of move.

01:08:52.215 --> 01:08:53.255
Okay.

01:08:53.255 --> 01:09:01.115
I don't remember him doing this in the, actually in the episode, so I'm a bit like maybe it's not the right move.

01:09:01.115 --> 01:09:06.255
Unless that was the move he was doing in the park when he, when he sees Colleen Wing, was that maybe it?

01:09:06.255 --> 01:09:07.295
Potentially.

01:09:07.295 --> 01:09:08.415
But I don't know.

01:09:08.415 --> 01:09:09.195
No, I really don't.

01:09:09.195 --> 01:09:11.455
One of us needs to go and learn Kung Fu, boys.

01:09:12.175 --> 01:09:15.015
In the next couple of weeks, we need to become Sheldon Masters.

01:09:15.015 --> 01:09:17.315
All of the moves.

01:09:17.315 --> 01:09:19.875
But hopefully our listeners could help with this.

01:09:19.875 --> 01:09:23.755
This is where we want to kind of put almost a note.

01:09:24.315 --> 01:09:30.575
We want to include your notes on this because we'll try our best, but this is kind of out of my wheelhouse to a degree.

01:09:30.575 --> 01:09:34.535
Whiskey watch and Easter egg ones, that's kind of fun.

01:09:34.535 --> 01:09:36.355
We can figure that out.

01:09:36.355 --> 01:09:37.435
We're pretty good with that.

01:09:37.435 --> 01:09:40.595
Those ones comic books and the other is alcohol.

01:09:40.595 --> 01:09:42.095
We're down with those.

01:09:42.095 --> 01:09:45.435
Kung Fu mastery, not so much.

01:09:45.435 --> 01:09:54.695
The only thing I could think of and I was trying to think, was it like the Luke Cage episodes where the song title is connected with what's going on in the show.

01:09:54.695 --> 01:10:00.895
Snow Gives Way is the kind of end of that phrase is kind of Snow Gives Way to grass shoots.

01:10:00.895 --> 01:10:07.315
So this being the opening episode, this is just saying that it's coming into kind of the spring of the story.

01:10:07.315 --> 01:10:12.035
There's the thrust of the story is going to be coming up in the next couple of weeks.

01:10:12.035 --> 01:10:16.575
The return of Danny Rand to the city is a brand new change in the lives of a lot of people in the city.

01:10:16.575 --> 01:10:18.455
So Snow is giving way to grass shoots.

01:10:18.855 --> 01:10:23.555
In a way, that's what I'm guessing, grass is green, so is Danny Rand's suit.

01:10:25.255 --> 01:10:26.855
Look, it's a guess.

01:10:26.855 --> 01:10:30.395
And little puppies love rolling around in the grass.

01:10:30.395 --> 01:10:32.255
But yes, Chris is absolutely right, listeners.

01:10:32.255 --> 01:10:37.735
If you can get in contact with us on the titles of the episode, some of them are a bit spoilery, I understand.

01:10:37.735 --> 01:10:42.155
The episode titles on the previews are just 101, 102, 103.

01:10:43.035 --> 01:10:46.555
So we believe the name of this episode of Snow Gives Way will know on Friday at 7am.

01:10:47.215 --> 01:10:56.535
But if you want to get in contact with us, just email us over at feedback at defenderstvpodcast.com if you've worked out what each of the moves could be, and we'll talk about them on the episodes.

01:10:56.535 --> 01:10:57.635
Absolutely.

01:10:57.635 --> 01:10:59.895
So are there any other notes?

01:10:59.895 --> 01:11:06.135
My one for the episode is the music at the beginning of the episode is by Outkast, so fresh and so clean.

01:11:06.135 --> 01:11:08.795
Great track, actually, really do like Outkast.

01:11:08.795 --> 01:11:11.495
But I like the idea of it.

01:11:11.495 --> 01:11:20.015
It's the fact that Danny left New York City carrying an iPod 15 years ago, that song was released in the year 2000, 17 years before he released.

01:11:20.015 --> 01:11:27.875
So that would be absolutely the type of music that Danny would have brought with him on board his plane in his very old school iPod.

01:11:27.875 --> 01:11:28.495
Cool.

01:11:28.495 --> 01:11:34.935
That'd be cool if they keep that theme, like the majority of the music is all 15, 17 years old.

01:11:34.935 --> 01:11:36.215
That'd be a nice twist.

01:11:36.215 --> 01:11:37.815
Yeah, it would be nice, wouldn't it, actually?

01:11:37.815 --> 01:11:38.775
Yeah.

01:11:38.775 --> 01:11:41.235
When music was better.

01:11:41.235 --> 01:11:47.935
It also would explain why he's more of a rap fan, and that's possibly how we'll have a bit of a connection with Luke.

01:11:47.935 --> 01:11:54.535
Speaking of twists, Chris, the taxi flip, I really like that as well, right in front of Joy Meachum.

01:11:54.535 --> 01:11:55.635
How can we not talk about that?

01:11:55.635 --> 01:11:56.075
Yeah.

01:11:56.075 --> 01:12:12.155
I thought that was really cool that you know, lightning reflexes here and just the backflip over the taxi to avoid, obviously, being run over like a dog in the street, you know?

01:12:12.155 --> 01:12:14.575
So it was that I really, really enjoyed.

01:12:14.575 --> 01:12:19.995
And actually, I loved the other car scene as well with him and Ward Meachum.

01:12:21.135 --> 01:12:24.015
Like, I thought that was really cool and where...

01:12:24.015 --> 01:12:25.555
Oh, yeah.

01:12:25.555 --> 01:12:27.315
Ward pulls the gun on him.

01:12:27.315 --> 01:12:29.855
Like, yeah, I can't believe I haven't really said that, actually.

01:12:29.855 --> 01:12:37.735
I just thought that was, again, just the intensity, the frustration, the anger in Danny Rand.

01:12:37.735 --> 01:12:45.475
But also, it's starting off with, look, I've been quite nice here and everyone's chasing me like rubbish.

01:12:45.475 --> 01:12:46.615
Will you just listen to me?

01:12:46.615 --> 01:12:57.975
And like Ward, the kahunas on him must be massive because, I mean, he like literally says that and says, well, you were on a, they were on a plane and it crashed.

01:12:57.975 --> 01:13:00.675
They died and they were never found again.

01:13:00.675 --> 01:13:04.795
And it was just like, OK, yeah, I think he wanted more than that.

01:13:04.795 --> 01:13:06.575
I think he knows that amount.

01:13:06.575 --> 01:13:11.575
Like, and it just, again, just showed how obnoxious Ward was.

01:13:11.695 --> 01:13:20.515
But I love the kind of the intensity and the lines coming and the brief flashback as his career in the car.

01:13:20.595 --> 01:13:23.595
Those really tense and I look with the gun as well.

01:13:23.595 --> 01:13:30.055
I really enjoyed that scene between the two of them, because again, it's the contrast between the two of them.

01:13:30.315 --> 01:13:39.195
I definitely thought that Zoom was really tense and partly because there is no possible way the car could travel for that long while the flashback was going on.

01:13:39.195 --> 01:13:39.655
Yeah.

01:13:39.655 --> 01:13:43.555
Before he went outside to the building, I was going to go, no, it has to stop now.

01:13:43.555 --> 01:13:46.935
He said, he said, please stop Danny like three times.

01:13:46.935 --> 01:13:49.375
Yeah, no, but I mean, but the scene itself was fantastic.

01:13:49.375 --> 01:13:53.695
But I mean, that's ultimately like that Star Wars, the rebel base would have got blown up.

01:13:54.455 --> 01:14:03.715
And like, you know, like, it's a huge planet or as shit as a nerd, I was counting down, we were getting a countdown.

01:14:03.715 --> 01:14:04.635
Yeah.

01:14:04.635 --> 01:14:07.795
And I was like, I was like, okay, I'm sorry.

01:14:07.795 --> 01:14:15.735
Sorry, rebellion, but you're over before you started, because actually, yeah, the Death Star would have blown up.

01:14:15.735 --> 01:14:18.755
I think that's all of our notes, clearly, about the episode.

01:14:18.855 --> 01:14:20.055
Chris, do you have a little?

01:14:20.055 --> 01:14:22.655
I just want to come in very quickly.

01:14:22.655 --> 01:14:25.695
We used to talk about this back on daredevil.

01:14:25.695 --> 01:14:30.455
Color, the use of actual visual color in the episode.

01:14:30.455 --> 01:14:31.115
Right.

01:14:31.115 --> 01:14:35.975
So actually, there was a lot of yellow, a lot of yellow.

01:14:35.975 --> 01:14:43.835
When you go back and watch it, it's significant when Ward's going up the stairs to meet his father.

01:14:43.835 --> 01:14:44.355
Yeah, that's true.

01:14:44.355 --> 01:14:45.035
It's all yellow.

01:14:45.635 --> 01:14:50.235
In Chinatown, it's all, a lot of the neon is yellow.

01:14:50.235 --> 01:14:51.015
Yeah.

01:14:51.015 --> 01:14:53.715
So I was surprised.

01:14:53.715 --> 01:14:59.055
I didn't think they'd do this to the level of daredevil, with the red, but they are.

01:14:59.055 --> 01:15:05.395
And I'm wondering, is this just a kind of almost I see what I want to see level here?

01:15:05.395 --> 01:15:08.955
So we'll see if it continues into the next episode and stuff.

01:15:08.955 --> 01:15:12.475
But it looks like they will be doing that from a visual perspective.

01:15:13.335 --> 01:15:15.135
But yeah, that was one of my notes.

01:15:15.135 --> 01:15:17.035
The production designers are fantastic in this show.

01:15:17.035 --> 01:15:23.515
Lauren Weeks has been involved in all four of the TV shows, actually five, with daredevil Season Two as well.

01:15:23.515 --> 01:15:28.135
So she has been involved and their attention to detail is generally amazing.

01:15:28.135 --> 01:15:31.635
But I think you actually answered your own question just by the way you put it, Chris.

01:15:31.635 --> 01:15:36.235
You did say, they are all yellow, just like the Coldplay song.

01:15:36.495 --> 01:15:42.495
The reason why the Coldplay song is called that is because that is a Zen phrase, meaning it's all, okay, everything's all right.

01:15:42.835 --> 01:15:50.315
It is another Zen phrase, so an Eastern phrase, effectively, so.

01:15:50.315 --> 01:15:51.635
So they just, yeah.

01:15:51.655 --> 01:15:52.355
Okay.

01:15:52.355 --> 01:15:53.575
We'll look out for that.

01:15:53.975 --> 01:16:01.295
We had another Zen phrase in the episode as well, that those who seek the truth hold no opinions.

01:16:01.295 --> 01:16:06.335
When he's speaking with joy, I think it was that anyway, I might be misquoting, but yeah, so that was really good.

01:16:06.495 --> 01:16:20.475
So I think on this point, Chris, do you defend this episode, this first episode, Snow Gives Way of Iron Fist?

01:16:20.475 --> 01:16:22.775
Why did you have to start with me?

01:16:22.775 --> 01:16:26.215
Why did you have to start with me?

01:16:26.215 --> 01:16:30.575
Guys, and particularly John, I'm sorry.

01:16:30.595 --> 01:16:35.355
I do not defend this episode of Iron Fist.

01:16:36.315 --> 01:16:38.115
The Snow Gives Way.

01:16:38.135 --> 01:16:48.035
I think this was potentially the weakest of all episode ones of all the shows we have so far.

01:16:48.035 --> 01:16:54.815
And I don't know whether this was, no, I think I know enough about the character that this should have grabbed me a lot more than it did.

01:16:54.815 --> 01:16:59.155
Now, I am not saying this is a bad episode.

01:16:59.155 --> 01:17:00.455
I am not saying that.

01:17:00.455 --> 01:17:04.735
I think there was just more wrong than there was right.

01:17:05.335 --> 01:17:11.355
And there could be multiple reasons we have discussed a lot of them already on this episode.

01:17:11.355 --> 01:17:18.975
But personally, if anything, this was like a 2.75 to nearly a 3 of fists.

01:17:18.975 --> 01:17:21.935
Like if you want to put it like that, it's just...

01:17:21.935 --> 01:17:22.975
Please don't.

01:17:22.975 --> 01:17:24.475
No, okay, we'll put it like that.

01:17:24.475 --> 01:17:27.515
But it didn't capture me enough.

01:17:27.515 --> 01:17:30.515
It didn't pull me in to go, oh my God, I need to binge.

01:17:31.275 --> 01:17:39.115
That feeling of binge-ness that Netflix is powerful for, that Jessica Jones and daredevil, it's still...

01:17:39.115 --> 01:17:43.555
Luke Cage, that highlight element.

01:17:43.555 --> 01:17:45.035
Well, Luke Cage to a lesser extent.

01:17:45.035 --> 01:17:49.435
Like the ending of this episode just made me go, okay, maybe I can find out next week.

01:17:49.435 --> 01:17:52.715
Like, you know, it was like, tune in next week, or tune in now.

01:17:52.735 --> 01:17:54.555
It was tune in next week.

01:17:54.555 --> 01:17:57.795
And I just felt it just wasn't strong enough.

01:17:58.555 --> 01:18:03.315
If you put this up against other shows on TV, it's miles better.

01:18:03.315 --> 01:18:03.855
Not now.

01:18:03.855 --> 01:18:10.755
There are some shows like Game of Thrones and Shield that are stratosphere ahead.

01:18:10.755 --> 01:18:15.555
But it is still a good opening premiere to a show.

01:18:15.555 --> 01:18:23.115
Just not a good opening premiere for a Marvel TV Netflix show.

01:18:23.115 --> 01:18:27.215
They need to do something quite big and quite spectacular.

01:18:28.495 --> 01:18:34.895
In the second episode, to get me to go, I'm sorry, I take it back.

01:18:34.895 --> 01:18:36.815
I see what you were trying to do.

01:18:36.815 --> 01:18:40.555
And maybe this is almost like a part one and a part two job.

01:18:40.555 --> 01:18:42.875
But it's just...

01:18:42.875 --> 01:18:45.015
No, I do not defend this episode.

01:18:45.015 --> 01:18:49.535
And I'm sorry, this hurts me more than it hurts our listeners and it hurts John.

01:18:49.535 --> 01:18:53.835
But John, do you defend this episode of Iron Fist Snow Gives Way?

01:18:54.495 --> 01:18:58.975
I only just defend this episode of Iron Fist.

01:18:58.975 --> 01:19:02.415
I give it three jujus out of five.

01:19:03.915 --> 01:19:06.275
For much in the same reason as yourself, Chris.

01:19:06.275 --> 01:19:10.015
But I mean, I also feel that this is the first episode.

01:19:10.015 --> 01:19:12.135
Luke Cage was slowly paced as well.

01:19:12.135 --> 01:19:13.855
I mean, we made that point.

01:19:13.855 --> 01:19:14.255
Yeah.

01:19:14.275 --> 01:19:36.915
And so I don't so much have a problem with its pacing, but I definitely feel that there was some kind of factor, and I'm not entirely sure what it is, that just reigned back from providing some kind of, whether it be a shock, and I don't mean that they have to kill parents in a lift.

01:19:37.095 --> 01:19:40.795
I think, you know, this is going to be tonally different.

01:19:40.795 --> 01:19:42.295
He's a billionaire.

01:19:42.295 --> 01:19:44.055
He's not an alcoholic.

01:19:44.055 --> 01:19:54.195
He's not a blind down and out in that sense, struggling with guilt, and he's also not someone who's on the run.

01:19:54.195 --> 01:19:59.715
So he is the contrast of all the defenders in some respects.

01:19:59.715 --> 01:20:05.255
So I do think he is, and this show is going to be totally different.

01:20:05.255 --> 01:20:07.675
I don't have a problem with that either.

01:20:07.675 --> 01:20:15.695
I just felt that there were certain things that, it just felt like they were being restrained.

01:20:15.695 --> 01:20:21.135
It felt like they were being pulled back, and that it was more than just slow-paced.

01:20:21.535 --> 01:20:31.835
Like, they could ultimately have done this first episode in a very different way than focusing on billionaires having a corporate power struggle.

01:20:31.835 --> 01:20:47.775
And actually, the more I think about it from our 101, and we were talking about how they were going to introduce this notion of Shao Lao, the Undying, Kun Lun, I actually think they should have just gone for it.

01:20:47.775 --> 01:21:02.435
And I think, actually, this first episode should not have even been set in New York, maybe to some extent, or maybe we get the flashbacks, or actually the flash forwards to him arriving in New York and it being really segmented.

01:21:02.435 --> 01:21:18.335
And actually, we get a full-blown so that it is actually saying to the audience, this is completely different from Jessica Jones, it's completely different from daredevil, because this guy has been 15 years away from New York.

01:21:18.735 --> 01:21:21.155
He's no longer from New York.

01:21:21.155 --> 01:21:22.995
He has been trained in martial arts.

01:21:22.995 --> 01:21:26.135
He is dealing with the mystic and the spiritual.

01:21:26.135 --> 01:21:35.815
And when he comes back, he is different from the other three, because he's not technically on that street level.

01:21:36.055 --> 01:21:42.695
In that sense, that is why I have issues with this first episode.

01:21:42.695 --> 01:21:46.455
However, I loved Finn Jones' portrayal.

01:21:46.455 --> 01:21:48.575
I really enjoyed Colleen Wing.

01:21:48.575 --> 01:21:52.915
I really enjoyed Harold Meachum seeing him.

01:21:52.915 --> 01:22:04.375
And the reason why I do just defend it is because it is the first episode, and actually watching it a second time, it was better for me than the first one.

01:22:05.255 --> 01:22:07.095
The first time I watched it.

01:22:07.095 --> 01:22:13.495
So, I do just defend this, and I'm really interested to see how it moves on.

01:22:13.495 --> 01:22:16.155
And it doesn't have to be in the next episode.

01:22:16.155 --> 01:22:17.555
It can be in three and four.

01:22:17.735 --> 01:22:24.255
I just, I want to see what they're doing with this, because this is so very different as an opener compared to the others.

01:22:24.255 --> 01:22:32.335
And I think it just didn't have some kind of Marvel Netflix, but more importantly, Iron Fist factor.

01:22:32.835 --> 01:22:33.355
Yeah.

01:22:33.355 --> 01:22:46.935
I think the glowing hand would have been great, or the full on, we're in Cunlun, and we're seeing that would actually have told this in a different, more exciting way and acknowledging that difference.

01:22:46.935 --> 01:22:49.335
But I do defend this episode.

01:22:49.715 --> 01:22:58.235
And absolutely, there are some really lovely touches in terms of like the foot tap, that they're climbing up the side of the building to see some of his powers.

01:22:58.235 --> 01:23:03.555
And I actually, I really am enjoying Ward Meachum.

01:23:03.555 --> 01:23:05.575
I think he's just a nasty piece of work.

01:23:05.575 --> 01:23:06.595
He's an out and out.

01:23:06.595 --> 01:23:09.015
It might be one dimensional, maybe at this stage.

01:23:09.015 --> 01:23:09.775
He's just nasty.

01:23:10.475 --> 01:23:13.295
And I like that, because it contrasts.

01:23:13.395 --> 01:23:21.415
And he should be seen as contrasting with Danny Rand, who's lovely and puppy doggy and so on.

01:23:21.415 --> 01:23:22.215
So I do.

01:23:22.215 --> 01:23:24.095
Three Jujus out of five.

01:23:24.095 --> 01:23:30.855
And with that bombshell, Derek, do you defend this episode of Iron Fist?

01:23:30.855 --> 01:23:32.355
There are three of us.

01:23:32.355 --> 01:23:39.715
I think it's a three for all three of us are around the three out of five that we're going to give it a chance because we're going to be doing all 13 episodes.

01:23:39.715 --> 01:23:40.795
We always do.

01:23:40.795 --> 01:23:41.435
There's no issue.

01:23:41.435 --> 01:23:43.935
There's no problem with the actors in this show at all.

01:23:43.935 --> 01:23:45.655
There's no problem with the No, not at all.

01:23:45.655 --> 01:23:47.495
the origin story that they have to create.

01:23:47.495 --> 01:23:53.035
There's loads there in Iron Fist and they're going to do it over 13 episodes.

01:23:53.035 --> 01:24:00.755
What I felt about this episode was, have Netflix just dropped the ball a little bit on the idea that they know people binge watch these shows?

01:24:00.755 --> 01:24:02.395
They have the rights to Marvel.

01:24:02.395 --> 01:24:12.175
Have they just dropped the ball a little bit by going, oh, it doesn't really matter how good or bad this particular episode is because people are just waiting that 13 seconds to go on to the second episode?

01:24:12.175 --> 01:24:18.735
Well, to be honest with you, this feels similar to some of the other shows that I didn't go back to on Netflix.

01:24:18.735 --> 01:24:21.795
It feels like the OA, which is supposed to be pretty good.

01:24:21.795 --> 01:24:24.035
I got through two episodes of that.

01:24:24.035 --> 01:24:27.555
It feels like 12 Monkeys, which is supposed to be pretty good.

01:24:27.555 --> 01:24:29.655
I got through two episodes of that as well.

01:24:29.655 --> 01:24:30.775
It needs to pick up the pace.

01:24:30.775 --> 01:24:37.275
It needs to do what every other TV show does out there just because you've got 13 episodes doesn't mean your audience is going to watch all 13 episodes.

01:24:37.275 --> 01:24:41.095
They need to work harder on an opening episode to get people interested.

01:24:41.095 --> 01:24:46.875
There are always new people coming online on Netflix, flicking on a TV show and wondering what it's like.

01:24:46.875 --> 01:24:51.135
This should have been one of those ones that stood out alongside other episodes.

01:24:51.135 --> 01:24:56.735
If they have to wait two and a half hours to get to an episode that excites them, they're not going to wait two and a half hours.

01:24:56.895 --> 01:24:57.775
They're going to watch a movie.

01:24:57.775 --> 01:24:59.095
They're going to go to the cinema.

01:24:59.095 --> 01:25:00.775
They're going to take out Dr.

01:25:00.775 --> 01:25:02.215
Strange and watch it again on Blu-ray.

01:25:02.535 --> 01:25:03.975
Oh, yeah.

01:25:04.095 --> 01:25:05.735
You can't wait an hour.

01:25:05.735 --> 01:25:13.635
This was 56 minutes in this episode, and it felt like we're only just scratching the surface of who some of these characters are.

01:25:13.635 --> 01:25:14.375
And yeah, you're right.

01:25:14.375 --> 01:25:19.575
It did feel like an office drama, which isn't really my style and not what I expected from Marvel.

01:25:20.795 --> 01:25:26.335
So I'm giving it three because it's still a wait and see kind of recommendation.

01:25:26.335 --> 01:25:28.235
That's not a don't watch it.

01:25:28.235 --> 01:25:30.035
It's a wait and see recommendation.

01:25:30.115 --> 01:25:45.655
I want to see episode two and I'm hoping this picks up in a couple of episodes because if it stays at this level of storytelling for the rest of the season, I think bad things are at foot for 13 hours of podcasting too.

01:25:45.675 --> 01:25:55.775
One other thing, you know, if you create the notion that Marvel can do no wrong, which that isn't entirely true either.

01:25:55.775 --> 01:25:59.375
You know, there's a lot of looking back with rose tinted specs.

01:25:59.455 --> 01:26:04.675
Well, to some extent, what I mean by that is that, you know, Agents of Shield is excellent now.

01:26:04.675 --> 01:26:08.355
I was very iffy on it in the first season.

01:26:08.355 --> 01:26:09.775
You were?

01:26:09.775 --> 01:26:10.775
I was.

01:26:10.775 --> 01:26:11.675
You were?

01:26:11.675 --> 01:26:18.215
You know, but what I mean is that has got, is what, in its fourth season, and it is fantastic now.

01:26:18.495 --> 01:26:19.855
It absolutely is.

01:26:19.855 --> 01:26:24.035
But this, as you say, has only 13 episodes to prove itself.

01:26:24.035 --> 01:26:27.515
It's the first season, and it's the first half of Agents of Shield.

01:26:27.795 --> 01:26:37.995
And if Agents of Shield had stopped there, there would have been a potential that it wouldn't be as successful as it did and has become, you know?

01:26:37.995 --> 01:26:55.295
So I really hope it picks up the pace, because that is my concern, is that, of course, I'm going to go and watch 13 episodes of it is because, A, doing this podcast, but B, I'm an Iron Fist fan, and I will just, I'll probably cry and sob and go, what have they done?

01:26:55.295 --> 01:27:03.115
If, but at the same time, look, it's its first episode and that, I think we give it, it's just desserts.

01:27:03.115 --> 01:27:05.215
Okay, so let's not be overly negative.

01:27:05.535 --> 01:27:07.875
We did find some good things that we enjoyed in the episodes.

01:27:07.875 --> 01:27:09.535
We're definitely going to be watching episode two.

01:27:09.535 --> 01:27:10.715
Oh, yes.

01:27:10.715 --> 01:27:11.315
Of course we are.

01:27:11.455 --> 01:27:12.655
We're definitely going to be doing that.

01:27:12.895 --> 01:27:16.255
I hope we haven't come across as super negative on it.

01:27:16.255 --> 01:27:18.535
It's still three out of five Jujus, was it, John?

01:27:18.535 --> 01:27:20.255
Yeah, it's three Jujus.

01:27:20.255 --> 01:27:21.515
Or three fists.

01:27:21.515 --> 01:27:23.175
Three fists and a tear.

01:27:23.655 --> 01:27:29.515
So we will be back later on with episode two of our podcast, but we want to just do our final piece.

01:27:29.515 --> 01:27:33.835
We did actually get some feedback in after Iron Fist 101.

01:27:33.835 --> 01:27:42.675
We did ask some of our listeners to record their thoughts about our awful pronunciations of things that were in the Iron Fist universe when we were doing our 101.

01:27:42.675 --> 01:27:53.355
Our first piece of feedback is an audio piece of feedback from Ronaldo all the way from Australia who's giving us his thoughts on what we talked about in our Iron Fist 101.

01:27:53.355 --> 01:27:59.835
Hi guys, just dropping a line just with regards to pronunciations for all things Iron Fist.

01:27:59.835 --> 01:28:13.455
First off, as I had read the comics, I always thought it was Koon Lun, which I think a lot of people think as well, but as confirmed in the preview on Netflix, you see Danny saying Koon Lun.

01:28:14.595 --> 01:28:23.235
Second, Lee Kung, the thunderer, I always read it and had it in my head as Lee Kung, so I'm not sure if that's correct or not.

01:28:23.235 --> 01:28:27.615
And finally, John makes mention of Yu Ti.

01:28:27.615 --> 01:28:35.595
Again, in my head, as I read the comics, I always read it as Yu Tai, but that doesn't really make sense if you consider Shang Chi.

01:28:36.015 --> 01:28:41.835
He's not exactly Shang Chi, so Yu Ti is probably the best bet there.

01:28:41.835 --> 01:28:47.275
Just also quickly, on Iron Fist's power sets, he's got a vast range of powers.

01:28:47.275 --> 01:28:52.235
I'm just wondering how many of those we'll kind of actually see on the show.

01:28:52.235 --> 01:29:04.815
Apart from the obvious, he's got Mind Fusion, which I think he can share the consciousness of other people, kind of like Legion, and also using his chi as a ranged weapon.

01:29:05.855 --> 01:29:13.495
I think it might be a bit extravagant for the show, but yeah, just wanted your thoughts as to whether you think we will see it on the show.

01:29:13.495 --> 01:29:16.515
Anyway, keep it up, and I can't wait for the show to start.

01:29:16.515 --> 01:29:17.415
Cheers.

01:29:17.415 --> 01:29:20.515
Thanks so much, Ronaldo, and your cats, for joining us for that.

01:29:20.515 --> 01:29:21.735
Absolutely.

01:29:21.735 --> 01:29:23.315
They were very vocal, too.

01:29:23.315 --> 01:29:24.075
Absolutely.

01:29:24.075 --> 01:29:24.555
They were.

01:29:24.555 --> 01:29:29.555
Much like to Charlie, our pod cat who comes and joins us occasionally.

01:29:29.555 --> 01:29:30.475
Yeah, thanks so much for that.

01:29:30.475 --> 01:29:43.755
It's really interesting to hear other people's thoughts on our pronunciations as well, because obviously we've read comic books, so whatever you've read, a book or a comic book, you read it in your own head whatever way until somebody else pronounces it.

01:29:43.755 --> 01:29:45.915
So always interested to hear those.

01:29:45.915 --> 01:29:46.495
Absolutely.

01:29:46.495 --> 01:29:48.715
I shall endeavor to do better.

01:29:49.815 --> 01:29:52.295
Yes, you should.

01:29:52.435 --> 01:29:56.695
And also in terms of his powers, I really hope we see the range one, definitely.

01:29:58.515 --> 01:30:08.255
And I think, you know, in terms of that being able to sort of the mind control type element, I wonder if that's what we saw with the old Eyes of the horde.

01:30:08.255 --> 01:30:10.615
Exactly where I was going with that.

01:30:10.615 --> 01:30:17.215
I'm like, oh, okay, maybe he can control animals to a degree, which that better be it.

01:30:17.215 --> 01:30:19.995
Otherwise, that scene was useless.

01:30:19.995 --> 01:30:20.915
I'm sorry.

01:30:21.575 --> 01:30:22.355
I love this show.

01:30:22.935 --> 01:30:25.275
I'm not, no more, no more, again.

01:30:25.275 --> 01:30:28.175
Anyway, thank you so much, Ronaldo, and I appreciate it.

01:30:28.195 --> 01:30:35.435
And I will try and pronunciate these words, but I will most likely destroy every single one.

01:30:35.435 --> 01:30:50.115
But anyway, if any of you like the way I pronounce my words, please send us feedback to going to defenders TV podcast, and you'll be able to leave a short voicemail for us with, and you too can pronunciate like I do.

01:30:51.735 --> 01:30:57.035
Just to say as well, thank you, Ronaldo, for the feedback as well from my side.

01:30:57.035 --> 01:31:01.095
But before we finish up, we have got another piece of feedback.

01:31:01.095 --> 01:31:07.035
We do, yes, and it's another voicemail, which is cool, very cool.

01:31:07.035 --> 01:31:16.795
So guys, get all your voicemails in because you too can have your dosic tones, as John likes to say, on this show.

01:31:16.795 --> 01:31:19.735
Yes, we do have a bit of feedback from Claire Payne.

01:31:20.295 --> 01:31:21.215
Hello, defenders.

01:31:21.215 --> 01:31:24.895
This is Claire Payne from Plymouth in the UK.

01:31:24.895 --> 01:31:30.255
Thank you so much for your recent podcast covering the Five Points of Iron Fist.

01:31:31.295 --> 01:31:46.435
I've been doing my own little bit of homework at home before the 17th of March, getting used to understanding this particular Marvel character, as I'm a huge fan of anything to do with dragons and martial arts, then I'm already sold on the idea.

01:31:47.515 --> 01:31:58.515
The Immortal Iron Fist comic book collection has been a great read, certainly to prepare for the up-and-coming TV series.

01:31:58.515 --> 01:32:22.035
And also thank you because your knowledge and enthusiasm in covering all the points has been brilliant, because you really do put across the information really well, and you already feel as though you know the characters, and what kind of could happen in the next 13 episodes.

01:32:22.035 --> 01:32:25.955
So as always, I look forward to listening to your future podcasts.

01:32:27.175 --> 01:32:33.775
And please, Derek, if you feel the need to dress up as Nick Fury, please do so, but make sure you post some pictures.

01:32:33.775 --> 01:32:35.955
And thanks again, guys.

01:32:35.955 --> 01:32:36.635
Brilliant stuff.

01:32:36.635 --> 01:32:38.455
Thank you so much for the voicemail, Claire.

01:32:38.455 --> 01:32:42.275
That's great that you took one of the recommendations to go and read the Immortal Iron Fist collection.

01:32:42.275 --> 01:32:47.775
It's a brilliant start to the show and a brilliant start to your knowledge.

01:32:47.775 --> 01:32:50.475
And how perfect is it that you love martial arts and dragons?

01:32:50.475 --> 01:32:54.455
This is the show for you, clearly, as we go into the episodes, I'm sure.

01:32:54.455 --> 01:32:57.095
So the gauntlet has been thrown down, Derek.

01:32:57.095 --> 01:32:59.115
Absolutely.

01:32:59.115 --> 01:33:01.695
Thank you so much, Claire, for your voicemail.

01:33:01.695 --> 01:33:06.375
That's really, really cool to get your comments.

01:33:06.375 --> 01:33:19.415
We hope that we can at least get across our enthusiasm for the Marvel characters that we love, or even the ones that we don't even know that much about as well.

01:33:19.415 --> 01:33:25.715
So it's really nice of you to say that it helps.

01:33:25.715 --> 01:33:27.175
Thank you so much for the comments.

01:33:27.175 --> 01:33:29.295
Very, very much appreciated.

01:33:29.295 --> 01:33:31.815
Claire, I'm going to jump in before Derek says anything.

01:33:31.815 --> 01:33:34.055
Thank you so much for the comments.

01:33:34.055 --> 01:33:38.575
But more importantly, thank you so much for laying down that gauntlet to that request.

01:33:39.215 --> 01:33:41.835
It is the best thing ever.

01:33:42.975 --> 01:33:45.395
And I, yes, thank you for your comments.

01:33:45.395 --> 01:33:48.375
But more importantly, I'm going to pass over to Derek because I want to see what he says.

01:33:48.375 --> 01:33:50.575
I can, I just, this is going to be brilliant.

01:33:50.575 --> 01:33:51.255
Thank you, Claire.

01:33:51.255 --> 01:33:51.815
Thank you.

01:33:51.815 --> 01:33:57.175
It's not going to be that brilliant because I have already dressed as Nick Fury, as you both well know.

01:33:57.175 --> 01:33:58.555
I know.

01:33:58.555 --> 01:34:08.475
There was a Halloween party many, many years ago where I did get the full eye patch on, the full cigar, got my hair dyed gray at the time, even though I don't need that.

01:34:08.475 --> 01:34:10.155
Yeah, he doesn't need the dye anymore.

01:34:10.235 --> 01:34:11.175
But that is available.

01:34:11.175 --> 01:34:14.135
I do use it as my profile picture on occasion on Facebook.

01:34:14.135 --> 01:34:26.995
So I may pop that back up after this episode goes out for a little while, just to refresh everybody's memories of how my trip into cosplaying as Nick Fury turned out.

01:34:26.995 --> 01:34:27.895
There you go.

01:34:27.895 --> 01:34:34.975
Definitely, he did rock an excellent Nick Fury back in 2007.

01:34:36.115 --> 01:34:43.475
In fact, indeed, the wrinkles, he doesn't need to get them put on it now.

01:34:43.475 --> 01:34:49.255
All the gray hair and certainly it could be a 10th anniversary dressing up as Nick Fury.

01:34:49.255 --> 01:35:00.115
I do remember a great moment when I was about 27, when I was reading a Nick Fury comic and my brother walked past me and saw the cover of the Nick Fury comic and went, I know why you like that guy.

01:35:00.115 --> 01:35:01.315
He's got the same hair as you.

01:35:01.895 --> 01:35:05.775
I was 27 with gray temples.

01:35:05.775 --> 01:35:06.635
So there you go.

01:35:06.635 --> 01:35:08.475
Thanks so much for that feedback, Clare.

01:35:08.475 --> 01:35:11.575
Really good to hear some more audio feedback from our listeners.

01:35:11.575 --> 01:35:17.315
If you want to record some audio feedback for us, as I said earlier on, just go to the website, go to defenderstvpodcast.com.

01:35:17.315 --> 01:35:18.455
There's a little button over the side.

01:35:18.455 --> 01:35:27.135
You can record 90 seconds of your thoughts about each and every episode of Iron Fist and we'll play it as we go through our coverage of the show.

01:35:27.135 --> 01:35:29.455
And this is the announcement.

01:35:29.715 --> 01:35:32.495
There will be a prize at the end of the season.

01:35:32.495 --> 01:35:39.255
We'll be putting all of the people who have put in their thoughts and their feedback throughout the episodes into a hat.

01:35:39.255 --> 01:35:45.455
And at the end of the season, we will be especially selecting one person to win a Marvel prize.

01:35:45.455 --> 01:35:50.155
We know what it is right now, but we're not going to share it just yet, but it is a bloody good Marvel prize, isn't it?

01:35:50.155 --> 01:35:51.035
Yeah, I think so.

01:35:51.035 --> 01:35:52.135
Yeah, it's pretty cool.

01:35:52.135 --> 01:35:53.735
I have to admit, I kind of want it.

01:35:53.735 --> 01:35:56.735
I'm kind of like, can I enter?

01:35:56.735 --> 01:36:04.715
I know there's a bit of like, well, he has to win, but like I put a good 90 seconds worth of effort in there.

01:36:04.715 --> 01:36:06.615
Yeah, no, it's a really cool prize back.

01:36:06.615 --> 01:36:15.335
So absolutely get your feedback skates on and your voicemails in for the prize.

01:36:15.335 --> 01:36:16.575
Absolutely.

01:36:16.575 --> 01:36:21.535
Yeah, you can obviously contact us through our website by voicemail.

01:36:21.535 --> 01:36:29.675
There's also our Facebook page and group that you can join and get involved in the discussions, comments and chats.

01:36:29.675 --> 01:36:33.955
There's email obviously then at feedback at defenderstvpodcast.com.

01:36:35.455 --> 01:36:44.955
And I mean, as always, please subscribe, leave a review, leave your thoughts over on iTunes or any other good podcast catcher.

01:36:44.955 --> 01:36:45.535
Absolutely.

01:36:45.535 --> 01:36:48.075
Just one bit of caution as the producer of the show.

01:36:48.095 --> 01:37:01.275
Please, if you are sending in feedback about any future episodes or your thoughts on the entire series, please make sure you make it very clear in the comment section of your post or in the subject line of your email.

01:37:01.275 --> 01:37:03.355
I do see everything that comes in.

01:37:03.355 --> 01:37:05.035
We do not watch ahead on the episodes.

01:37:05.035 --> 01:37:08.195
We will be watching episode two before we record our podcast.

01:37:08.195 --> 01:37:14.195
And I'd love if you didn't spoil me, if I could ignore an email until we get up to that particular episode.

01:37:14.195 --> 01:37:16.475
But please send them in as you go.

01:37:16.475 --> 01:37:19.875
There are going to be some people that will be finished all of these episodes.

01:37:20.255 --> 01:37:22.435
Thirteen hours from 7am, that's 10pm.

01:37:22.435 --> 01:37:25.435
We're at 10pm Friday, the 17th of March.

01:37:25.435 --> 01:37:27.235
There should be some people finishing up.

01:37:27.235 --> 01:37:34.155
So Derek, is that confirmation that you are the all-seeing eye of Sauron in flames?

01:37:34.155 --> 01:37:40.555
I do see pretty much everything that comes in from every group, Facebook, Twitter, through our email, through the voicemails.

01:37:40.555 --> 01:37:41.095
I see it all.

01:37:41.095 --> 01:37:42.055
So yes.

01:37:42.055 --> 01:37:42.535
Excellent.

01:37:42.815 --> 01:37:46.455
Of the defenders TV podcast, that would be me the all-seeing eye.

01:37:47.335 --> 01:37:53.455
We will be back with our second episode of Iron Fist, Iron Fist, season one, episode two, Shadowhawk takes flight.

01:37:53.455 --> 01:37:55.275
So Shadowhawk, what do you think, guys?

01:37:55.275 --> 01:38:00.055
That sounds like there's a bit of a connection there between the hawk we saw in this episode and the tattoo.

01:38:00.055 --> 01:38:04.295
I think Big Al is going to sprout wings and fly off into the sunset.

01:38:04.295 --> 01:38:05.815
I don't think that's a good idea.

01:38:05.815 --> 01:38:06.175
Caw!

01:38:09.255 --> 01:38:10.395
Absolutely.

01:38:10.395 --> 01:38:12.815
And again, directed by John Dahl.

01:38:12.815 --> 01:38:14.635
So looking forward to that.

01:38:14.635 --> 01:38:20.635
And of course, remember, as long as the cycle of existent lasts, may your happiness never decline.

01:38:20.635 --> 01:38:25.155
May you attain the constant joy of the Buddhists.

01:38:26.655 --> 01:38:30.795
And with that note, thank you for joining us here on the podcast.

01:38:30.795 --> 01:38:31.555
Bye for now.

01:38:31.555 --> 01:38:32.055
Absolutely.

01:38:32.055 --> 01:38:34.835
Thanks for joining us for the epic first episode.

01:38:34.835 --> 01:38:36.855
Discussion will be back for episode two soon.

01:38:36.855 --> 01:38:37.335
Thanks.

01:38:37.335 --> 01:38:37.975
Thanks guys.

01:38:37.975 --> 01:38:39.215
See you for episode two.

01:38:39.215 --> 01:38:39.475
Bye.

01:39:01.308 --> 01:39:09.368
To be brutally honest with you, I will try and pronunciate the words as you said.

01:39:09.368 --> 01:39:11.628
Chris, do you want to take that back for a second?

01:39:11.628 --> 01:39:14.008
Because the word is pronounce.

01:39:14.008 --> 01:39:16.308
I know, that was the joke I was making.

01:39:16.308 --> 01:39:18.188
Okay, grand.

01:39:19.968 --> 01:39:21.348
Oh, God.

01:39:21.348 --> 01:39:23.648
Look what I have to work with people.

01:39:23.648 --> 01:39:25.308
Anyway.

01:39:25.308 --> 01:39:26.968
So looking forward to that.

01:39:27.208 --> 01:39:33.688
And as long as the cycle of existence lasts, make your happiness near to cl-

01:39:34.088 --> 01:39:37.608
I can't even f***ing read that.

01:39:37.628 --> 01:39:39.888
I'll read mine.

01:39:39.888 --> 01:39:43.348
I was like, what the f*** does that say?

01:39:45.108 --> 01:39:46.528
Little scrawny handwriting.