Marvel's Defenders Season 1 Episode 1 Review by Defenders TV Podcast

The Defenders Season 1, Episode 1 The H Word

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[DEREK]This is Defenders TV Podcast Episode 113 at the Defenders Season 1, Episode 1.

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[DEREK]Hello, fellow Defenders, and welcome back to Defenders TV Podcast, where we're here talking about the first episode of The Defenders on Netflix.

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[DEREK]I'm one of your hosts, Derek.

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[CHRIS]I'm one of your other hosts, Chris.

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[CHRIS]Yes, and rounding out the group, I'm your third and final host, John.

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[CHRIS]Welcome back, fellow Defenders.

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[DEREK]We're finally here?

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[CHRIS]Yes.

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[CHRIS]What is it?

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[CHRIS]112 episodes?

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[CHRIS]Yeah, 112 episodes, just getting to this point.

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[CHRIS]All roads have led to not Dr.

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[CHRIS]Strange, but of course, the Defenders.

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[CHRIS]And we're so welcome to all of our new listeners who are hopefully joining us for the first time.

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[CHRIS]Yes, absolutely.

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[CHRIS]And of course, if you want to subscribe to our podcast over at Apple Podcasts, you can just go to defenderstvpodcast.com forward slash iTunes or just search Defenders TV podcast in any other good podcast catcher of your choice.

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[DEREK]Absolutely.

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[DEREK]Yeah, I think we're going to crack into this one.

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[DEREK]We've been waiting to talk about it for a long, long time.

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[DEREK]Haven't we?

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[CHRIS]Almost like it's 112 episodes in the making, almost.

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[DEREK]So we are very lucky.

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[DEREK]We've had the opportunity to watch the first episode ahead of the release date.

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[DEREK]It's releasing on August 18th, which is why you're able to listen to this as early as you are releasing the episode itself just after you finished watching the first episode.

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[DEREK]So if you have not watched the first episode of the Defenders, if you mistakenly downloaded our podcast and didn't get the chance to watch it, this isn't the one you listen to on the bus to work before you watch the episode.

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[DEREK]This is spoiler-filled, a proper spoiler-filled discussion.

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[DEREK]We will be spoiling everything about the first episode of The Defenders.

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[CHRIS]Yes, absolutely.

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[CHRIS]And for all you newcomers, we of course take our top five points of each episode and discuss and go through everything to do with this first episode of The Defenders.

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[CHRIS]So Derek, what are the episode details?

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[CHRIS]Who's involved, who's written it?

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[DEREK]Very lucky here on our first episode, we get the showrunners taking over the writing duties on this episode.

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[DEREK]That's Marco Ramirez and Doug Petrie.

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[DEREK]They are both the showrunners for Daredevil season two and they are the showrunners now for The Defenders.

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[DEREK]So kind of creating their stamp on the show by getting the first episode.

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[DEREK]It's tended to be the way the Netflix guys have divvied up the writing duties for the series so far.

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[DEREK]Doug Petrie, he's been involved in Daredevil as well.

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[DEREK]He wrote seven episodes of that show, wrote over 17 episodes of Buffy, did episodes of Angel and American Horror Story, so loads and loads of history there with Doug Petrie and TV.

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[CHRIS]Yeah, ah, Buffy.

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[CHRIS]I'm expecting good things.

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[DEREK]Absolutely.

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[DEREK]Marco Ramirez did six episodes of Daredevil and was involved in Sons of Anarchy and Orange is the New Black and did episodes of Fear the Walking Dead as well.

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[CHRIS]So blood will be in this show.

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[DEREK]Yeah, following out from Daredevil, you could definitely tell that that's where he came from, couldn't you?

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[CHRIS]Yeah, these guys, they have the pedigree.

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[CHRIS]Let's put it straight out there.

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[CHRIS]These guys know the Defenders.

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[CHRIS]They know, understand the Marvel Netflix universe that they've helped create the Marvel Netflix universe.

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[CHRIS]They probably, we do know that the writers from Daredevil, the writers from Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist, they've talked.

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[CHRIS]They've obviously kind of had interactions.

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[CHRIS]So these guys are coming in strong.

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[CHRIS]They have the bona fides, as Kevin Smith would say.

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[DEREK]There you go.

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[DEREK]There you go.

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[DEREK]Also involved in the show is SJ.

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[DEREK]Clarkson.

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[DEREK]She directed this episode.

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[DEREK]SJ.

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[DEREK]Clarkson did two episodes of the awesome Jessica Jones series.

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[DEREK]She did it aka Crush Syndrome and aka Ladies' Night.

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[DEREK]She's a British director.

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[DEREK]She's worked on British soap operas like East Enders and Casualty, but she's worked in the US for almost 10 years now, working on things from Heroes to Dexter to Bites Motel.

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[DEREK]So done many, many other shows along with Jessica Jones.

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[CHRIS]That's great that it's nothing like any of the British soaps like East Enders and Casualty and more like Bites Motel and Dexter.

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[CHRIS]Well done.

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[DEREK]I agree, I agree.

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[DEREK]Great to have another director from Jessica Jones on board.

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[CHRIS]Exactly.

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[CHRIS]And let's remember like episode two, which was aka Crush Syndrome was fantastic.

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[CHRIS]It was the one post like that we, everyone was like, oh my God, that just happened to Hope.

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[CHRIS]Where the hell do we go for with this?

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[CHRIS]She did a great one and we got that scene where it was Typhoid Mary and Jessica for the first time being picked up by the throat.

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[CHRIS]How can you forget?

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[DEREK]Typhoid Mary, what that might pay off in a future episode of Jessica Jones.

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[DEREK]You never know, but for our new listeners, if you want to know what that is, you'll have to listen to our review of Crush Syndrome.

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[DEREK]John, do you want to tell us what they all gave us together for our first episode of The Defenders?

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[CHRIS]Sure.

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[CHRIS]While battling a new weapon of the hand, Danny Rand and Colleen Wing tracked down a dying member of the group who tells them to return to New York to continue their fight against the hand.

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[CHRIS]Meanwhile, with the help of Bobby Fish and Foggy Nelson, Luke Cage is released from Seagate Prison.

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[CHRIS]His first stop is to go and get some coffee with Claire Temple.

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[CHRIS]While there, New York Police Department Detective Misty Knight shares her investigation into some suspicious deaths of young men in Harlem.

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[CHRIS]Elsewhere, as Jessica Jones arrives home from another night out on the whiskey, a woman calls to her broken door to ask her to find her missing husband.

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[CHRIS]Initially expecting it's another cheating husband, Jessica gets a call from a mysteriously disguised voice telling her not to take the case.

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[CHRIS]On the other side of the city, Matt Murdock is struggling with his choice to give up being Daredevil.

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[CHRIS]He's focusing on pro bono legal work to protect the innocent of the city.

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[CHRIS]After winning a case which left a young man in a wheelchair, Matt reconnects with Karen Page.

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[CHRIS]There is also another mysterious player in town with a plan to make the city of New York fall.

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[CHRIS]She brings forward her plan with the aid of Madam Gao and a reanimated Electra Nachos.

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[CHRIS]As each of the Defenders goes about their tasks in the city, their lives are suddenly interrupted by a huge city-wide earthquake.

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[DEREK]So I really like the structure of this episode.

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[DEREK]Not only do we get to spend loads of time with the characters that we've known and loved getting back up to speed where they are, but it really helps us in our top five points.

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[DEREK]John mentioned that the way we cover our episodes by picking our top five points overall, good and bad, throughout each of the episodes.

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[DEREK]This time we're really lucky.

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[DEREK]We've got four individual characters, all from different series, all where their stories don't intersect.

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[DEREK]And we have the introduction of our brand new villain for the show, Sigourney Weaver's character.

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[DEREK]So that's kind of gonna be our top five points.

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[DEREK]John, do you want to start us off with the first of our Defenders, Iron Fist, where he is and what's happening with him?

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[CHRIS]First and foremost, the episode picks off with Iron Fist.

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[CHRIS]He's the last of the Defenders that we got to see.

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[CHRIS]And, you know, I really like how they framed him.

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[CHRIS]To me, it intuitively feels better.

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[CHRIS]And this is no slight on the Iron Fist series, which ultimately, despite a few little setbacks for me, I really enjoyed.

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[CHRIS]But there's something for me that the way Danny Rand here is framed with regards to his PTSD feels intuitively better and more accurate to his character.

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[CHRIS]Like I think those flashbacks to Kun Lun and his failure to protect the city that adopted him is really good.

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[CHRIS]Even just the face to face with his other self, you know, one half of his psyche telling him how he has effectively in a green arrow kind of a way failed his mysterious city.

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[CHRIS]True.

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[CHRIS]I really enjoyed this.

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[CHRIS]And even down to that opening encounter in the sewer system in Cambodia, it was so atmospheric and it was just really cool.

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[CHRIS]I mean, I know in the synopsis, I said mysterious figure, but I think I got a little hint of the old Return of the Dead and Electra Nachos there.

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[CHRIS]I love the fact that, you know, his iron fist, he's obviously been practicing how to get his fist on, so to speak, even just down to the fact that when he had charged up his chi and his fist was glowing yellow, you got the steam from the dripping water coming off it.

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[CHRIS]That was a really special touch for me.

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[CHRIS]And I just thought it was so atmospheric.

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[CHRIS]I liked how he reacted to the guy dying, his interaction with Colleen Wing, and the fact that, you know, we're told here that this mysterious figure is the fastest that Colleen Wing has ever seen as well.

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[CHRIS]I loved that it was more shadowy for Iron Fist.

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[CHRIS]It was just really, really good.

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[CHRIS]I suppose one of the other things is they were back on the plane, so they did reference a few things from the series.

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[CHRIS]They were traveling back in the plane.

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[CHRIS]I love that sequence of the massacre in Con Lund.

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[CHRIS]So I wonder if that's Electra that did that.

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[CHRIS]We know the hand got there.

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[CHRIS]Effectively, they're saying it was destroyed or attacked rather than it just simply sort of moving off its 15-year cycle and into another plane.

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[CHRIS]So really, a few more additions to this Iron Fist story, definitely.

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[CHRIS]So John, this actually has that...

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[CHRIS]Well, we think this potentially has answered the question we had at the end of Iron Fist going, we weren't 100% sure whether the city had disappeared or whether it was just blown up in ruins because it was quite smoky and we'd only seen a couple of bodies at the entrance to Con Lund.

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[CHRIS]And they were all the hand as well.

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[CHRIS]Yes, the hand and well, there was a couple of monks as well, wasn't there?

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[CHRIS]One or two monks?

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[CHRIS]Maybe.

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[CHRIS]Maybe.

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[CHRIS]Definitely the hand.

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[CHRIS]Yeah.

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[CHRIS]Yeah.

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[CHRIS]But this, whether I, we need to figure out whether the monks, the dead monks he sees is some form of PTSD, is this kind of like a delusion he imagines has happened because of his perceived failure of Con Lund?

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[CHRIS]Definitely.

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[CHRIS]Or protecting?

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[CHRIS]Or did he actually see this?

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[CHRIS]Did they manage to walk into some of the monasteries in Con Lund and actually see these dead monks?

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[CHRIS]I think that's definitely, it's either, that's what he thinks has happened.

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[CHRIS]It's his guilt from not having been there.

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[CHRIS]And this is sort of feeding into the PTSD or the anxiety that he holds as a person.

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[CHRIS]It could be actually what happened.

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[CHRIS]But it is definitely, in this instance, him with that sort of nightmare whilst he's asleep of what he thinks has happened.

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[CHRIS]So I suppose it's not confirmation as such that that's what happened.

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[CHRIS]But certainly it may fill in a few little snippets as to what has happened.

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[CHRIS]Because they've been investigating this up in the mountains to see what's happened.

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[CHRIS]They've been tracking down the hand.

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[CHRIS]So maybe they've pieced something together, which is why he is really living this trauma that he has failed his city.

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[DEREK]Yeah, he calls out that they've been chasing the hand for months at this stage.

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[DEREK]And this was their final lead.

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[DEREK]And that final lead is now gone.

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[DEREK]One of the touches I really loved in this after the fight sequence is that Electros sliced Danny across the center of his chest right across his iron fist symbol, which I thought was a really interesting touch because he's now feeling I'm not able to be the iron fist.

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[DEREK]I wasn't there to protect the members of Koon Loon.

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[DEREK]I am no longer the iron fist.

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[DEREK]And if you look at it in the mirror, if you look at the actual symbol, it's now sliced directly through like a not iron fist symbol, like a no smoking kind of sign.

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[DEREK]So I thought it was a nice little touch that they bring that in just the way this slash happened.

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[DEREK]And again, it shows that he's not invulnerable here.

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[DEREK]He's definitely not the best in the world.

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[DEREK]Electros is a strong fighter.

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[DEREK]And I really love the opening sequence, as you say, John.

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[DEREK]It was beautifully shot.

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[CHRIS]Yeah.

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[CHRIS]Where did she go?

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[CHRIS]Like, what's her power that allows her to effectively get punched by the Immortal Lion Fist into a room that seemed to have no way out?

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[CHRIS]But she has disappeared.

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[CHRIS]Is it stealth like up the wall and through sort of a grate at the top or?

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[CHRIS]Parkour!

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[CHRIS]I don't know.

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[CHRIS]Yeah, parkour.

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[CHRIS]Sewer parkour, basically.

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[CHRIS]Or is there something about Electra that, you know, now infused with the blood of a thousand dead hand minions that she can now do something fairly extraordinary as well?

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[CHRIS]Like, I don't know.

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[CHRIS]Chris or Derek, can you have any idea?

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[DEREK]Maybe she's Batman.

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[DEREK]I just, he's the one person that can get out of any room he's put in.

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[DEREK]So she seems to have a very similar style.

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[DEREK]We know where she's gone, though.

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[DEREK]We do see her later on in the episode, which I'm sure we'll get to as we come on.

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[CHRIS]Yeah, I just want to before we kind of wrap up on Iron Fist, I have one nitpick on this that I want to bring in, which is I really wish they hadn't shown us Electra in the trailers for this.

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[CHRIS]I wish she was held back because straight away, this feminine looking, hooded character shadowed.

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[CHRIS]I knew who it was.

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[CHRIS]Yeah.

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[CHRIS]I was like, OK, I know that's Electra, but can you imagine the reveal would have been so much more if they had not of kind of shown her off in the trailer in that scene, which we can get to later, because I think that would have been so much more impactful that we see this hooded figure fighting Iron Fist, going toe to toe with the Iron Fist, who we know was an excellent martial artist and powerful, taking a punch.

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[CHRIS]And then to be revealed later that it was her, I thought would have been more.

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[CHRIS]But it was just me.

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[CHRIS]I like it was a great scene and I really enjoyed the opening.

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[CHRIS]But that's just my kind of like, I kind of wish they had of held that that secret in the bag just for just until they released.

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[DEREK]Yeah, no, I understand, but I do think that's kind of serving the audience that hasn't possibly watched Daredevil and the audience that's trying to follow Jessica Jones's story or Luke Cage's story or, you know, obviously Iron Fist's story that are coming to this without seeing Daredevil Season 2 potentially who don't know Elektra.

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[DEREK]So if you think about it from that point of view, she is just a very visibly good fighter who was introduced at the end of the episode and we'll learn more about her in future.

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[DEREK]But I do agree with you, Chris, it would have been great to not know that she was in the series and then see her fighting here, but I still think I would have guessed it was her.

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[CHRIS]We're the burden of knowledge kind of at this point, and I say that as both a positive and a negative, we've kind of delved in and have 112 episodes of looking at this series.

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[CHRIS]So yes, we see I do like your idea that someone who's new, someone who's just seen Jessica Jones and has decided, oh, I enjoyed Luke Cage or Jessica Jones or Iron Fist, I want to come in and I'll just come straight into this, yet they have to reintroduce all these characters.

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[CHRIS]So, yeah, yeah, and I think the final thing for me as well is that, you know, Iron Fist really, of these four, almost many stories in this episode of the individual defenders, he is slightly apart from the others.

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[CHRIS]He's not at ground level.

00:15:45.523 --> 00:15:58.703
[CHRIS]Daredevil Luke Cage and Jessica are all, you know, on the streets of their neighborhoods, you know, fighting cases, drinking, having a lot of coffee, do you know?

00:15:58.723 --> 00:16:06.303
[CHRIS]And whereas Iron Fist, you know, does have that separation from the other three at this moment.

00:16:06.303 --> 00:16:16.363
[CHRIS]And it'll be interesting to see then how he connects in, probably through Claire Temple and Colleen Wing reconnecting.

00:16:16.503 --> 00:16:40.483
[CHRIS]It'll be really nice to see how he connects in because I think, you know, that is also an important element within the comics of Iron Fist, that he is a billionaire, but he then he becomes street level and is most comfortable sort of in the company of Luke Cage to say Heroes for Hire, which is their team, as well as through, say, his relationship with Misty Knight.

00:16:40.503 --> 00:16:46.463
[CHRIS]So I like the fact that they've kind of maintained that and it would be good to see how they all connect together.

00:16:46.483 --> 00:16:53.143
[CHRIS]But in particular, Iron Fist, because he does feel so distinct in terms of origin compared to the others.

00:16:53.423 --> 00:16:57.263
[DEREK]And remember, he is the only one that's actually fighting the hand at the opening of this episode.

00:16:57.283 --> 00:16:58.803
[DEREK]They are the big bad for the series.

00:16:58.903 --> 00:17:03.743
[DEREK]Everybody else is doing completely different things in their own lives and getting on with their own lives, which we'll talk about.

00:17:04.103 --> 00:17:10.263
[DEREK]But he's the only one that's actually following and fighting and hunting the hand, which is a direct lead in from Iron Fist.

00:17:10.603 --> 00:17:24.843
[CHRIS]And just on a general point, and this will lead us into our second point, of course, but I really like the structure of these four kind of distinct looks at the individual defenders.

00:17:24.923 --> 00:17:36.943
[CHRIS]I think, you know, it's a really good way of introducing these characters to people who maybe haven't watched the preceding individual series.

00:17:37.723 --> 00:17:43.603
[CHRIS]It really gives a nice flavor of the four characters, which I thought was really good, actually.

00:17:43.803 --> 00:17:44.103
[CHRIS]Yeah.

00:17:44.123 --> 00:17:45.543
[CHRIS]No, John, that's a great point.

00:17:45.603 --> 00:17:53.383
[CHRIS]And actually, before we get into Jessica Jones, because obviously my namesake is my heart and soul and I can't wait to talk about her again.

00:17:53.803 --> 00:18:05.463
[CHRIS]But there is that scene in the helicopter where we have Danny and Colleen talking about coming to Manhattan and Colleen saying that she's so happy to be home.

00:18:05.863 --> 00:18:10.543
[CHRIS]And then we do have Danny the iron fist saying this doesn't feel like home to him.

00:18:10.843 --> 00:18:12.583
[CHRIS]She kind of responds with the very much.

00:18:13.103 --> 00:18:14.843
[CHRIS]It can be anything you want it to be.

00:18:14.983 --> 00:18:15.703
[CHRIS]Home can be.

00:18:16.023 --> 00:18:33.243
[CHRIS]So I think that and I know kind of you guys feel the same that this probably is his how his introduction to Manhattan and the kind of more upmarket side of the millionaires club of Manhattan and New York.

00:18:33.263 --> 00:18:37.963
[CHRIS]That's how he will be introduced to the street level and that will become his home, if you will.

00:18:37.983 --> 00:18:39.123
[DEREK]Yeah, she's going to help him out.

00:18:39.143 --> 00:18:39.503
[DEREK]Definitely.

00:18:39.883 --> 00:18:48.343
[CHRIS]Because it contrasts really neatly with how integrated into the city the others feel, you know, and are comfortable with that.

00:18:49.383 --> 00:18:49.643
[DEREK]Yeah.

00:18:49.903 --> 00:18:51.443
[CHRIS]So can we talk about Jessica now?

00:18:51.703 --> 00:18:52.723
[DEREK]Absolutely Chris.

00:18:52.743 --> 00:18:53.823
[CHRIS]You can take Jessica.

00:18:54.303 --> 00:18:55.243
[CHRIS]I'm so happy guys.

00:18:55.263 --> 00:19:05.303
[CHRIS]Krysten Ritter is back and all her Jessica, alcoholic, violent and also swear jar, insert swear jar noise here.

00:19:05.743 --> 00:19:10.123
[DEREK]It's fantastic, 2015 was the last time we saw Jessica Jones.

00:19:10.143 --> 00:19:15.203
[DEREK]We think we finished our podcast about her in twenty seven, twenty sixteen, excuse me, at the start of that year.

00:19:15.223 --> 00:19:20.703
[DEREK]It's a long time to have her off screen and she wasn't, she wasn't included in Luke Cage.

00:19:20.723 --> 00:19:21.583
[DEREK]We thought she would be.

00:19:22.083 --> 00:19:35.023
[DEREK]So seeing her back here, I had the exact same same reaction at seeing the first moment with her sitting in the bar, sitting at the bar, telling the bartender, the night's not over yet and he's going, nice, it's morning, get out of the bar.

00:19:35.043 --> 00:19:37.683
[CHRIS]She was asleep in the bar, that was the best.

00:19:37.743 --> 00:19:40.503
[DEREK]It's just that moment where you go, Jessica Jones is back.

00:19:41.463 --> 00:19:46.103
[CHRIS]I mean, I have exactly the same reaction as you guys.

00:19:46.303 --> 00:19:49.843
[CHRIS]This to me was just like, ah, Jessica's back.

00:19:50.123 --> 00:19:53.163
[CHRIS]And it was just like fantastically done.

00:19:53.183 --> 00:19:56.503
[CHRIS]And yeah, Krysten Ritter knocks it out of the park.

00:19:56.623 --> 00:20:00.743
[CHRIS]We meet up again with Trish, you know, one of her long time friends.

00:20:01.163 --> 00:20:05.563
[CHRIS]And even, you know, you have her going, is the whiskey in this coffee?

00:20:06.083 --> 00:20:18.483
[CHRIS]As Jessica swaps them around, because, yes, she's got a little morning warmer in her morning coffee, probably about two glasses of whiskey, probably more whiskey than coffee.

00:20:19.463 --> 00:20:22.203
[CHRIS]It's more Irish coffee than Irish coffee.

00:20:24.423 --> 00:20:25.483
[CHRIS]I was just so happy.

00:20:25.523 --> 00:20:27.563
[CHRIS]This was interstitial before season two.

00:20:28.183 --> 00:20:29.703
[CHRIS]It was very much a warm opening.

00:20:29.723 --> 00:20:34.603
[CHRIS]It was like, hey, this is Jessica, this is Trish, this is the relationship they have.

00:20:35.443 --> 00:20:37.143
[CHRIS]Jessica doesn't want to be a hero.

00:20:37.163 --> 00:20:44.003
[CHRIS]We have that beautiful dialogue between Trish and Jessica going, you know, do you want to speak to my publicist?

00:20:44.023 --> 00:20:45.983
[CHRIS]There's people, the city needs a hero.

00:20:46.003 --> 00:20:46.883
[CHRIS]They see you as a hero.

00:20:47.203 --> 00:20:48.923
[CHRIS]And we have Jessica go, I'm not a hero.

00:20:48.963 --> 00:20:50.043
[CHRIS]I don't want to be a hero.

00:20:50.063 --> 00:20:51.303
[CHRIS]I don't want to be in the spotlight.

00:20:51.863 --> 00:20:53.903
[CHRIS]She just wants to be Jessica.

00:20:54.143 --> 00:20:57.263
[DEREK]And Trish is saying that you can make a lot of money out of this.

00:20:57.283 --> 00:20:59.923
[DEREK]You've beaten a really bad guy and people love that story.

00:20:59.943 --> 00:21:03.363
[DEREK]And Jessica's going, how much do I pay to stop the attention?

00:21:03.383 --> 00:21:05.343
[DEREK]How much would they pay me to not talk about it?

00:21:06.383 --> 00:21:15.403
[CHRIS]And I think, again, that's a really interesting point, Chris, because you have Jessica who doesn't want to be a hero.

00:21:15.423 --> 00:21:21.103
[CHRIS]You have Matt Murdock, who is willing to put his hero away in the box, his suit.

00:21:21.463 --> 00:21:23.283
[CHRIS]Really he has to fight it.

00:21:23.303 --> 00:21:25.743
[CHRIS]He's on a maybe at a different point than Jessica.

00:21:25.763 --> 00:21:30.843
[CHRIS]But there's two here that don't want to be heroes anymore.

00:21:30.983 --> 00:21:34.963
[CHRIS]They've done that and they've been burnt and it's made them question doing that.

00:21:35.223 --> 00:21:40.583
[CHRIS]I think with Jessica, it's definitely actually she just doesn't see herself as a hero.

00:21:40.963 --> 00:21:51.683
[CHRIS]Whereas Daredevil has been a hero, wanted to do that and has really, for the sake of getting his life back on track, has had to put the hero inside the box.

00:21:52.023 --> 00:22:00.363
[CHRIS]But then you have Luke Cage, who most definitely is straight out of prison saying, I want to help Harlem, I want to be the hero of Harlem.

00:22:00.383 --> 00:22:12.963
[CHRIS]He's got that tag and Iron Fist with Danny Rand, who is still learning his mantle, but he accepts it and he's learning to really fully develop it.

00:22:12.983 --> 00:22:23.323
[CHRIS]So again, you have that really nice little interesting contrast of the differences between these, certainly with regards to being a superhero or not, or how that's affected them.

00:22:24.243 --> 00:22:37.863
[CHRIS]I think that's a really nice little through line between these four different stories, just as much as that difference between street level and the difference with Danny Rand's sake.

00:22:37.943 --> 00:22:41.583
[CHRIS]Some nice little threads that run through this for sure.

00:22:42.863 --> 00:22:50.423
[CHRIS]As well for me with Jessica, I love the fact that her life is still really just pretty shitty as much as it was beforehand.

00:22:50.443 --> 00:22:51.603
[CHRIS]Okay, she's not got Kilgrave.

00:22:51.623 --> 00:22:52.523
[CHRIS]It's not that shitty.

00:22:52.903 --> 00:22:58.923
[CHRIS]I love when they first go into her apartment and effectively you've still got the holes in the wall.

00:22:59.403 --> 00:23:04.043
[CHRIS]The door is looking even more of an absolute mess.

00:23:04.703 --> 00:23:09.943
[DEREK]Can we just call that out as an Easter egg for Jessica Jones watchers?

00:23:11.403 --> 00:23:13.923
[DEREK]There's the door that cannot stay unbroken.

00:23:13.943 --> 00:23:23.263
[DEREK]She's had it replaced twice, I think, during the season of Jessica Jones for no reason at all given in this episode they come back up to the apartment and the door is boarded back up again.

00:23:23.283 --> 00:23:29.163
[DEREK]There's a conversation between herself and Malcolm who says he changed the locks on the door because the door was broken again.

00:23:29.483 --> 00:23:37.543
[DEREK]So either Jessica just forgets her keys a lot and smashes that window to break into her office, which is very likely to be honest.

00:23:38.563 --> 00:23:42.863
[DEREK]Or something other stuff has happened that we're that we're not privy to, but just love the touch.

00:23:42.883 --> 00:23:44.543
[DEREK]It's a nice little easter egg that we kept all the night.

00:23:44.803 --> 00:23:45.363
[CHRIS]Malcolm.

00:23:46.343 --> 00:23:54.163
[CHRIS]Sweet, sweet Malcolm back looking much less heroin induced, buffed up, dare I say.

00:23:54.183 --> 00:24:09.383
[CHRIS]I was really pleased to see Malcolm back there in Jessica's apartment and loved his character in Jessica Jones and really nice him sort of interacting with, you know, new locks on the doors.

00:24:09.983 --> 00:24:15.383
[CHRIS]There was the whole don't look over my shoulder part from Jessica whilst he's looking over the shoulder.

00:24:15.403 --> 00:24:19.403
[CHRIS]So he moves to the other shoulder, which I thought was hilarious.

00:24:19.503 --> 00:24:21.603
[CHRIS]And she didn't mind that.

00:24:21.803 --> 00:24:24.943
[CHRIS]But I'm really pleased to see Malcolm back.

00:24:24.963 --> 00:24:28.803
[CHRIS]One of my favorite characters from from Jessica Jones went through a lot.

00:24:28.823 --> 00:24:29.023
[DEREK]Yeah.

00:24:29.483 --> 00:24:29.743
[CHRIS]Yeah.

00:24:30.723 --> 00:24:31.163
[CHRIS]I can't.

00:24:31.183 --> 00:24:31.403
[CHRIS]Yeah.

00:24:31.423 --> 00:24:35.643
[CHRIS]You guys have covered a majority of kind of I echo everything.

00:24:36.443 --> 00:24:38.483
[CHRIS]For me, the door is I want that story.

00:24:38.823 --> 00:24:44.523
[CHRIS]The end of season one of Jessica Jones, we were getting a new pane of glass and it was alias investigations and I was so happy.

00:24:44.943 --> 00:24:46.923
[CHRIS]So I want that to be explained.

00:24:48.523 --> 00:24:50.363
[DEREK]I do think it's slightly explained by Malcolm.

00:24:50.383 --> 00:24:56.163
[DEREK]I think he does say that he had to bust into the apartment because because that with the new keys.

00:24:56.183 --> 00:24:56.583
[DEREK]Sorry.

00:24:56.623 --> 00:24:59.283
[CHRIS]It could be a Marvel once off like Peggy Carter.

00:24:59.463 --> 00:25:14.743
[CHRIS]It could be the alias investigations door and you would just see repeated things being thrown through it or a fist through it or some kind of fire damage, water damage, termites, Jessica Jones damage, you know, you name it.

00:25:15.043 --> 00:25:20.643
[DEREK]But let's talk about the actual thrust of her storyline because obviously this the part of it obviously is that Jessica's back.

00:25:20.663 --> 00:25:21.303
[DEREK]That's awesome.

00:25:21.323 --> 00:25:23.423
[DEREK]But obviously there's a big part of the storyline here.

00:25:23.443 --> 00:25:26.483
[DEREK]She gets a new case from a woman calling up to her door.

00:25:27.163 --> 00:25:39.443
[DEREK]Another essential, wonderful thing about Jessica Jones is she just assumes that any man who's a missing person is cheating on his wife and says it right in front of the man's daughter and wife going, just accept it.

00:25:39.463 --> 00:25:40.243
[DEREK]That's what's happened.

00:25:40.283 --> 00:25:46.743
[DEREK]I'm not going to waste your time and your money finding this guy who's obviously cheating on you because that's what all of my cases are.

00:25:47.623 --> 00:25:48.543
[DEREK]Loved this scene.

00:25:48.543 --> 00:25:54.823
[DEREK]Loved the interaction between the characters and really liked the kind of the bitchy kids, I suppose, talking back at Jessica.

00:25:55.363 --> 00:25:57.463
[CHRIS]Yeah, young Jessica, basically.

00:25:57.863 --> 00:26:00.883
[CHRIS]I'm hoping that this that bitchy kid comes back.

00:26:00.963 --> 00:26:02.403
[CHRIS]I'm hoping she's the new hope.

00:26:02.483 --> 00:26:08.503
[CHRIS]I don't want her to die like hope, but I'm kind of seeing that potentially that could be a reason.

00:26:08.523 --> 00:26:10.623
[DEREK]Nobody wants hope to die.

00:26:10.943 --> 00:26:11.323
[CHRIS]No.

00:26:11.383 --> 00:26:14.023
[CHRIS]But anyway, this case is fantastic.

00:26:14.103 --> 00:26:19.063
[CHRIS]It was just a kernel, the appetizer we need for Jessica needs in order to get through.

00:26:19.263 --> 00:26:20.323
[CHRIS]And that's the interesting thing.

00:26:20.343 --> 00:26:24.063
[CHRIS]She gets the she plays off this this case.

00:26:24.083 --> 00:26:26.763
[CHRIS]It's like just, yeah, it's another kind of adulterous husband.

00:26:27.023 --> 00:26:27.683
[CHRIS]Get over it.

00:26:28.103 --> 00:26:44.003
[CHRIS]And then we we get and she gets this very interesting mysterious phone call with the the voice changing with the voice modulated kind of caller on the other end, which I'm now intrigued.

00:26:44.263 --> 00:26:46.923
[CHRIS]That was the bit I was like, you've hooked Jessica, you've hooked me.

00:26:47.163 --> 00:26:48.303
[CHRIS]I want to know what this is.

00:26:48.363 --> 00:26:48.903
[DEREK]Definitely.

00:26:48.923 --> 00:26:57.483
[DEREK]And what I love about it is the reason why Jessica now takes the cases because she got a phone call that said, do not take the case, a very Jessica Jones move.

00:26:58.043 --> 00:26:58.563
[DEREK]Loved it.

00:26:59.123 --> 00:27:10.103
[DEREK]And yes, she's she winds up in the apartment of the person that made the phone call, she thinks made the phone call and in the apartment, she finds boxes after box of explosives.

00:27:10.343 --> 00:27:14.263
[DEREK]So something seriously big going on with this guy.

00:27:14.823 --> 00:27:16.623
[CHRIS]So I'm calling it now.

00:27:16.643 --> 00:27:24.223
[CHRIS]The mysterious phone caller was most likely someone from the cast, which is for our new listeners.

00:27:24.763 --> 00:27:34.803
[CHRIS]And the cast is the organization that fights against the hand, which we in Daredevil, you're introduced to a gentleman called Stick who mentored Daredevil.

00:27:35.023 --> 00:27:40.183
[CHRIS]He is the one of the heads of or one of the big wings in the cast.

00:27:40.383 --> 00:27:42.983
[CHRIS]We also see Stone and they all have weird names.

00:27:43.823 --> 00:27:45.983
[CHRIS]We'll explain more as we kind of go through.

00:27:46.243 --> 00:28:00.363
[CHRIS]But I'm assuming this was most likely Stick or someone from the cast trying to get Jessica to come look because it was like, oh, no, I call you from my apartment where I'm storing a load of the C4 and demolitions explosives.

00:28:00.803 --> 00:28:05.783
[CHRIS]No henchmen is that they're not like Bebop and Rocksteady level of kind of stupidity.

00:28:06.183 --> 00:28:09.123
[CHRIS]Like I'm assuming this was the I'm calling it now.

00:28:09.203 --> 00:28:14.263
[CHRIS]It was the mysterious phone call is from someone trying to get her and bring her into the case.

00:28:14.283 --> 00:28:19.243
[DEREK]You promised even though there is Daredevil, you'd make no more Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comments.

00:28:19.363 --> 00:28:19.863
[CHRIS]I know.

00:28:19.883 --> 00:28:21.563
[DEREK]But I have to be Bop and Rocksteady.

00:28:21.703 --> 00:28:22.063
[DEREK]Interesting.

00:28:22.083 --> 00:28:22.463
[CHRIS]Yeah.

00:28:22.683 --> 00:28:27.243
[CHRIS]But would you prefer me to kind of put in a foot soldier kind of literally a foot soldier?

00:28:28.863 --> 00:28:33.283
[CHRIS]Just checking before we get to Martin Murdock because he is central and he's got another great story.

00:28:34.563 --> 00:28:39.243
[CHRIS]I just wanted to echo what John was saying about Malcolm at the end of Jessica Jones.

00:28:39.263 --> 00:28:47.663
[CHRIS]We had seen this character who had been subjected to a life as a junkie, forcibly as a junkie for years.

00:28:48.263 --> 00:28:49.423
[CHRIS]We now see Malcolm.

00:28:49.743 --> 00:28:51.783
[CHRIS]He is Jessica's sidekick.

00:28:51.943 --> 00:28:55.743
[CHRIS]He is that I'm going to help you even though you don't want me to.

00:28:56.103 --> 00:29:08.303
[CHRIS]Which, he is the annoying Dick Grayson, that's for all our DC fans, the Robin, if you will, to her Batman, but slightly more annoying to her.

00:29:08.583 --> 00:29:11.683
[CHRIS]Just one more thing, there has to be one more thing.

00:29:12.483 --> 00:29:14.023
[CHRIS]We have Whiskey Watch back.

00:29:14.583 --> 00:29:15.563
[CHRIS]Whiskey Watch!

00:29:15.923 --> 00:29:20.183
[CHRIS]Jessica is seeing Glugging, a Winston Canadian whiskey.

00:29:21.543 --> 00:29:28.563
[CHRIS]I wonder if we will get a bottle of whiskey in every episode of The Defenders, like we did for Jessica Jones.

00:29:28.583 --> 00:29:31.383
[DEREK]We will certainly be looking out for Whiskey Watch.

00:29:31.403 --> 00:29:33.023
[DEREK]Hopefully we have an Irish whiskey in there this time.

00:29:33.583 --> 00:29:38.743
[CHRIS]There was an Irish whiskey in it, but at 9 o'clock in the morning.

00:29:38.963 --> 00:29:40.743
[CHRIS]It was a good night had by all.

00:29:40.983 --> 00:29:54.243
[CHRIS]If you're joining us for the first time, what Whiskey Watch was, was throughout Jessica Jones season one, we were actually on the Eiffel watch out for every bottle of whiskey that we could find that Jessica was drinking.

00:29:54.303 --> 00:29:58.843
[CHRIS]And strangely enough, there was at least one new one per episode.

00:29:59.803 --> 00:30:04.423
[CHRIS]So we created a great drinking game ourselves or just watch along game where we call the Whiskey Watch.

00:30:04.923 --> 00:30:05.563
[DEREK]Absolutely.

00:30:05.743 --> 00:30:06.143
[DEREK]Yeah.

00:30:06.263 --> 00:30:06.543
[CHRIS]Yeah.

00:30:06.563 --> 00:30:07.443
[CHRIS]So there we go.

00:30:07.443 --> 00:30:09.263
[CHRIS]Winston's Canadian whiskey.

00:30:09.543 --> 00:30:12.923
[CHRIS]I have no idea whether it tastes good, bad or indifferent.

00:30:13.083 --> 00:30:16.683
[DEREK]We might have to source a bottle by our episode two podcast, perhaps.

00:30:17.143 --> 00:30:19.063
[DEREK]And yeah, let's get on to part three.

00:30:19.083 --> 00:30:23.903
[DEREK]Our third point of the episode is Matt Murdock, probably the biggest character.

00:30:24.123 --> 00:30:26.803
[DEREK]We've obviously had two full seasons of Matt Murdock.

00:30:26.823 --> 00:30:28.903
[DEREK]So a lot has been going on in his life.

00:30:29.123 --> 00:30:31.603
[DEREK]Kind of interesting to find that he's given up being Daredevil.

00:30:31.623 --> 00:30:36.143
[DEREK]The last scene we saw of him was revealing to Karen Page that he is Daredevil.

00:30:36.163 --> 00:30:37.823
[DEREK]We talked about this on a recap episode.

00:30:37.843 --> 00:30:41.003
[DEREK]This time we get to see Matt Murdock doing some lawyering.

00:30:41.523 --> 00:30:42.803
[DEREK]It's been a while since we saw that.

00:30:43.023 --> 00:30:44.143
[CHRIS]Big time, yeah.

00:30:44.263 --> 00:30:46.963
[DEREK]He kind of left it up to Foggy Nelson last time.

00:30:47.363 --> 00:30:51.023
[DEREK]This time we get a very high profile case, which he talks about working pro bono for.

00:30:51.043 --> 00:30:56.423
[DEREK]So that means that the $11 million he's got for the family, Matt doesn't get anything of, is that right?

00:30:56.703 --> 00:30:58.123
[DEREK]Other than his basic expenses?

00:30:58.343 --> 00:31:04.903
[CHRIS]I'm sure he'll get like a load of fish like he did for some of the other cases in season two, wasn't it?

00:31:04.923 --> 00:31:05.963
[DEREK]Yeah, yeah, possibly.

00:31:06.543 --> 00:31:07.303
[DEREK]I do like this though.

00:31:07.323 --> 00:31:13.583
[DEREK]I think it's a really interesting moment for Matt to get to get him as a lawyer in Hell's Kitchen again.

00:31:13.603 --> 00:31:16.243
[DEREK]It's something that was kind of missing in Daredevil season two.

00:31:16.263 --> 00:31:20.923
[DEREK]We kind of, he tended to avoid going to court, going to the courtroom for most of the time.

00:31:20.923 --> 00:31:24.823
[DEREK]So interesting to see him in this position going up against big business.

00:31:25.043 --> 00:31:25.423
[CHRIS]Yeah.

00:31:25.443 --> 00:31:25.743
[CHRIS]Yeah.

00:31:26.083 --> 00:31:33.023
[CHRIS]Yeah, he's hung up the horns and well, he couldn't really have him in season two going to the courtroom as battered and bruised as he was.

00:31:34.023 --> 00:31:37.523
[CHRIS]But yeah, this was one of the elements we loved about season one.

00:31:37.883 --> 00:31:52.803
[CHRIS]And one of the elements we love about the character of Matt Murdock Daredevil is this courtroom law and order style kind of back and forth where he, we see him kind of go against the, one of the plaintiffs, if you will.

00:31:53.363 --> 00:31:59.203
[CHRIS]And he does, he goes at that man going, well, you did this, but actually you didn't, you received this and blah, blah, blah.

00:31:59.603 --> 00:32:14.863
[CHRIS]And he, you see him, you see Charlie Cox, the reason he is so good as Matt Murdock because he is able to carry that I'm blind, but hey, I'm still one heck of a lawyer and I'm able to literally catch you in every lie.

00:32:15.223 --> 00:32:21.343
[CHRIS]And we didn't get that very trope where it's like, he's going to listen to the man's heartbeat and everything fades out.

00:32:21.363 --> 00:32:26.763
[CHRIS]And like, it was nothing like that, which we've seen in a really bad Daredevil movie with Ben Affleck.

00:32:26.783 --> 00:32:31.903
[CHRIS]It was like, we don't get anything like that and I was happy to see him kind of do that and win as Matt Murdock.

00:32:31.963 --> 00:32:33.503
[DEREK]Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:32:33.523 --> 00:32:37.283
[DEREK]And then he ended off having this really interesting conversation with the kid who's...

00:32:37.303 --> 00:32:38.583
[CHRIS]Yeah, I love that.

00:32:38.603 --> 00:32:39.343
[CHRIS]I have to say.

00:32:39.363 --> 00:32:49.683
[DEREK]That was one of the one of the best moments really in the in the episode for me, and definitely just had this conversation where effectively he's trying to impart the wisdom that he's learned over the years of struggling and fighting and getting to his level.

00:32:49.703 --> 00:32:52.223
[DEREK]It's almost it's almost a stick move.

00:32:52.803 --> 00:32:55.483
[DEREK]And what he says to the kid, I do mean that.

00:32:55.503 --> 00:33:00.883
[DEREK]What he says to the kid when he's going, that money is going to be great for your parents, but doesn't do anything for you.

00:33:00.903 --> 00:33:03.803
[DEREK]You're still kind of in this situation and you've got to get yourself out of it.

00:33:03.823 --> 00:33:06.663
[DEREK]It's not up to this money to solve your problem.

00:33:06.843 --> 00:33:08.963
[DEREK]You need to work on getting yourself right.

00:33:09.143 --> 00:33:10.003
[DEREK]Maybe you'll walk again.

00:33:10.223 --> 00:33:10.803
[DEREK]Maybe not.

00:33:10.823 --> 00:33:12.043
[DEREK]But you need to work and get yourself right.

00:33:12.063 --> 00:33:13.483
[CHRIS]Yeah, I love that talk.

00:33:13.503 --> 00:33:25.523
[CHRIS]I thought I mean, this whole the whole daredevil bit for me in this episode just felt really really intimate and really personal from that chat to the kid.

00:33:26.243 --> 00:33:37.663
[CHRIS]Even in the courtroom where he's talking to to the jury, it felt like it was that conversation to them, even though obviously it was public, but it all just felt very intimate and very personal.

00:33:37.683 --> 00:33:41.503
[CHRIS]You could really feel that I think from from the daredevil bits.

00:33:42.003 --> 00:33:44.703
[CHRIS]And yeah, I love that talk to the disabled kid.

00:33:44.923 --> 00:33:53.163
[CHRIS]It was almost like this reality check to him to say, you know, yeah, you have to build yourself back up and fight even with this money.

00:33:53.823 --> 00:34:06.703
[CHRIS]But even down to the confessional with the priest, I just I love that where Father Latham really is almost like telling him, you know, don't you miss it, you know, you should be out there.

00:34:07.123 --> 00:34:14.683
[CHRIS]And I love that contrast then with meeting with Karen Page where she actually says to him, it was the right thing to do.

00:34:15.143 --> 00:34:22.163
[CHRIS]And actually that New York City needs Matt Murdock, not the daredevil, even though he probably helped bring down the crime.

00:34:22.883 --> 00:34:38.783
[CHRIS]All these little things just seem so personal to Matt, even down to in his apartment, where he's fighting the urge not to suddenly just go running out to beat someone up and be the daredevil, you know, wait until he hears the sirens or whatever.

00:34:39.163 --> 00:35:06.803
[CHRIS]And I thought the use of the camera, as you say, Chris, there was no kind of trope of the beating heart sound or anything, but the use of the depth of field in the camera to make things out of focus or the focus in on just sort of Charlie Cox sort of doing the moves that he does, which really conveys a sense of him listening or just sensing the world around him, I thought was really well done.

00:35:06.823 --> 00:35:25.203
[CHRIS]And it really took me back to the first few episodes of season one of Daredevil, where they really, you know, to establish that he's blind and so on, that that kind of use of depth of field within the camera to make him feel within his own bubble was really used.

00:35:25.203 --> 00:35:29.903
[CHRIS]And I really love that aspect of Daredevil here.

00:35:30.183 --> 00:35:33.923
[DEREK]And he is the character that both Marco Ramirez and Doug Petrie know best, really.

00:35:34.063 --> 00:35:36.943
[DEREK]He's the one that they've worked most with on the previous shows.

00:35:36.963 --> 00:35:43.843
[DEREK]So it does feel having a character coming into the show that has two seasons of establishing who they are versus some of the other characters.

00:35:43.863 --> 00:35:59.643
[DEREK]You probably have to work a little bit harder to particularly for Jessica Jones to establish who she is in this world for Luke Cage, a little less because it's not as long ago and for Iron Fist, probably a little bit less to establish who he is because you had a series of the show just a couple of months ago.

00:36:00.603 --> 00:36:12.403
[DEREK]So, it is interesting that they kind of, it feels like Matt walks into this world as in a certain way, which is he's now a lawyer, he's given up being Daredevil and he can be a lot more personal with what's going on in his life.

00:36:12.423 --> 00:36:16.183
[DEREK]It can be about him being a good lawyer and giving up those pieces.

00:36:16.423 --> 00:36:19.223
[DEREK]I did laugh at the scene with a little bit with Father Latham.

00:36:19.243 --> 00:36:33.183
[DEREK]I thought it was a brilliant scene as always, I love the actor that plays Father Latham, but it does make me laugh as a former Catholic knowing that there's a confessional box usually on the other side of the confessional box as somebody else waiting their turn for Father Latham.

00:36:33.223 --> 00:36:38.063
[DEREK]Father Latham has a very personal conversation about Daredevil with Matt Murdock.

00:36:38.563 --> 00:36:40.923
[DEREK]You're usually able to hear what the priest is saying.

00:36:40.943 --> 00:36:48.183
[DEREK]You're not usually able to hear what the other person confessing their sins in the other side of the confessional box can say, but you are usually able to hear the priest.

00:36:48.383 --> 00:36:56.303
[DEREK]So I'm just expecting that someone's on the other side of that wall like Wilson Fisk is on the other side going, oh, Matt Murdock Daredevil, obviously, should have known that.

00:36:57.263 --> 00:37:00.043
[CHRIS]You mean it's a gossip box, not a confessional box?

00:37:00.063 --> 00:37:00.963
[DEREK]Well, you can hear the priest.

00:37:00.983 --> 00:37:06.983
[DEREK]The priest don't usually have the conversation that deep into, you know, are we talking about that with the other life that you have?

00:37:07.163 --> 00:37:11.323
[CHRIS]I'm agreeing a lot of what you guys are saying here on Daredevil.

00:37:11.383 --> 00:37:14.123
[CHRIS]I enjoyed Matt's kind of courtroom scene.

00:37:14.683 --> 00:37:20.163
[CHRIS]Unfortunately, for me, I don't know why, but the conversation he had with the kid didn't click for me.

00:37:20.803 --> 00:37:23.603
[CHRIS]And I know you guys enjoyed it and I can see why you enjoyed it.

00:37:23.623 --> 00:37:33.243
[CHRIS]Like, I understand what they were trying to set up, but in my head, I just going, well, yeah, Matt, you're blind, but you can still walk.

00:37:33.643 --> 00:37:35.403
[CHRIS]This kid's in a wheelchair.

00:37:35.423 --> 00:37:44.923
[CHRIS]So unless someone gives him like a technologically hovered chair like Charles Xavier had in the X-Men, we're probably, he's probably not going to be a superhero.

00:37:45.363 --> 00:37:49.463
[CHRIS]And I was just, I found it kind of almost disingenuous.

00:37:49.763 --> 00:37:52.063
[CHRIS]Not, not because it was that.

00:37:52.063 --> 00:37:54.523
[CHRIS]It was just the way my mind perceived it.

00:37:54.923 --> 00:38:02.083
[CHRIS]It took on a bad skew in that I rewatched the episode a second time and I can see where they were trying to go with it.

00:38:02.403 --> 00:38:10.483
[CHRIS]Now I'd say 99.9% of people in the audience who watch this will see the way you guys did, which were what they were trying to do.

00:38:10.503 --> 00:38:15.183
[CHRIS]Like, hey, you can be more, don't let what's happened to you rule your life, etc.

00:38:16.143 --> 00:38:27.243
[CHRIS]Matt's talking about being daired over himself and all that and he didn't let the issues that he had face adverse effects on him throughout his life.

00:38:27.843 --> 00:38:31.843
[CHRIS]I just didn't click with me, but I see it.

00:38:32.643 --> 00:38:48.423
[DEREK]They are kind of pains to point out that this kid has been affected by the works that happened in the train station, that this has affected him and has stopped him being able to walk, but they do mention a few times that there is a possibility he will walk again.

00:38:48.443 --> 00:38:52.563
[DEREK]It's possibly a temporary situation for the kid.

00:38:53.103 --> 00:38:57.583
[DEREK]What Matt's really talking to him about is the anger issues that he has.

00:38:57.863 --> 00:39:02.483
[DEREK]He asks him, you're a therapist, we'll say to you, don't be angry.

00:39:02.803 --> 00:39:04.263
[DEREK]And the kid says, I am angry.

00:39:04.263 --> 00:39:05.463
[DEREK]And Matt says, at who?

00:39:05.843 --> 00:39:06.963
[DEREK]Kid says, everybody.

00:39:07.583 --> 00:39:11.563
[DEREK]That's when Matt sparks off with the, well, you can't live your life like that moment.

00:39:11.863 --> 00:39:21.823
[DEREK]It's more about the anger and more about managing that and more about managing your own pain internally and not depending on anybody else, regardless of now having 11 million dollars at his disposal.

00:39:22.143 --> 00:39:23.643
[DEREK]That's the bit that's not going to fix him.

00:39:23.863 --> 00:39:30.203
[DEREK]The only thing that will fix him is fixing himself and working on himself internally because nobody else could do that for him.

00:39:30.543 --> 00:39:31.383
[DEREK]And I understand that.

00:39:31.403 --> 00:39:32.703
[DEREK]That's the kind of inspirational part.

00:39:32.963 --> 00:39:37.863
[DEREK]I don't think he's telling him to go out and get himself a suit and go out and fight crime.

00:39:37.883 --> 00:39:43.123
[DEREK]I think he's trying to encourage him to get out of this somber attitude the kid's in.

00:39:43.363 --> 00:39:50.963
[DEREK]It was pretty horrible, the parents and all of his grandparents, I assume, who were all in the courtroom, all walking out and then walking away from them.

00:39:51.583 --> 00:39:53.823
[CHRIS]They didn't even try and take the...

00:39:54.103 --> 00:39:55.963
[CHRIS]He was like, no, you can look after yourself.

00:39:56.063 --> 00:40:01.743
[DEREK]Like, I thought they were going over to be interviewed by the press, but actually they're going over and hugging other people over at the side.

00:40:01.963 --> 00:40:02.763
[CHRIS]We're rich.

00:40:02.883 --> 00:40:06.703
[DEREK]And then there's that great moment where Matt's standing there, obviously, again, he's blind.

00:40:07.683 --> 00:40:10.663
[DEREK]And he just kind of hears or notices that the kid is beside him.

00:40:10.683 --> 00:40:12.003
[DEREK]And that's when he has the conversation.

00:40:12.023 --> 00:40:15.603
[DEREK]It's kind of like, oh, they just left you here after winning all this money?

00:40:16.263 --> 00:40:17.183
[DEREK]Yeah.

00:40:17.323 --> 00:40:17.623
[DEREK]Yeah.

00:40:17.643 --> 00:40:19.003
[DEREK]I just thought that was a bit odd.

00:40:20.043 --> 00:40:22.483
[DEREK]But yes, it did set up what I thought was a good conversation.

00:40:23.043 --> 00:40:37.123
[CHRIS]And then from my side, the conversation with Karen, I was happy that the reintroduction, the pain, the love interest we saw with kind of the reintroduction of Karen for the first time to Matt.

00:40:37.143 --> 00:40:38.603
[CHRIS]And we've had our issues.

00:40:39.583 --> 00:40:48.683
[CHRIS]And any of our previous listeners will know with Karen as a character, as Debra Ann Waller, I should say, I've had my issues.

00:40:49.323 --> 00:40:53.063
[CHRIS]I don't want to put the words into our other host's mouth.

00:40:53.543 --> 00:40:56.503
[CHRIS]Not with Debra Ann Waller, as the actress, I love her as an actress.

00:40:57.023 --> 00:40:58.903
[CHRIS]And she's brought the character to life.

00:40:59.243 --> 00:41:01.983
[CHRIS]It's just some of the decisions as a character.

00:41:03.143 --> 00:41:06.443
[CHRIS]I've questioned why the character, the motives, if you will.

00:41:07.543 --> 00:41:08.983
[CHRIS]But I'm happy to see her back.

00:41:09.003 --> 00:41:11.003
[CHRIS]And it was that nice touching piece.

00:41:11.323 --> 00:41:17.663
[CHRIS]The bit I wanted to focus on now before we kind of go on to old Chocolate Love himself, Mr.

00:41:17.683 --> 00:41:32.943
[CHRIS]Hot Coffee, Luke Cage, is that that scene where Matt is kind of fighting the urge to go back out and save whoever was being attacked or the sirens, et cetera.

00:41:33.423 --> 00:41:41.603
[CHRIS]I really expected them almost with that to do the trope where he runs over to a chest and opens in the suit, the suit in there and almost like shaking.

00:41:42.103 --> 00:41:42.563
[CHRIS]I don't know.

00:41:42.583 --> 00:41:47.083
[CHRIS]I want to know more about the why he gave up and what he's been doing since.

00:41:47.883 --> 00:41:48.983
[CHRIS]That's season two.

00:41:50.543 --> 00:41:51.123
[CHRIS]Exactly.

00:41:51.143 --> 00:41:52.403
[CHRIS]But do you understand what I mean?

00:41:52.623 --> 00:42:03.343
[CHRIS]It's more what happened since that's caused him to do that kind of, like you'd still expect if someone was getting beaten up, he would you would even run out and jump kind of say something.

00:42:03.363 --> 00:42:13.283
[DEREK]What I do like about that, though, is the is the conversation the cop has when he arrives, he arrives in a couple of seconds like Matt wouldn't have been able to get the costume on and get across the road in the event of time it takes the police officer to sort it out.

00:42:13.303 --> 00:42:24.743
[DEREK]And the police officer just gets out of the car and goes you over there, you over there and puts one of the guys under arrest effectively is what you hear, which is kind of like, could Matt as Daredevil jump into all of those situations?

00:42:24.763 --> 00:42:26.563
[DEREK]You know, is he taking it too far?

00:42:26.583 --> 00:42:35.883
[DEREK]Or maybe is that the point that in the past, he may have gone out all fists are flying and beat up these two guys who were having a fight on the street?

00:42:36.423 --> 00:43:08.263
[CHRIS]Yeah, and it was part of the reason why that obsession with having to be all things to all people and stop all crime or try and prevent the bad that was happening in his neighborhood that cost him, you know, his law firm, his friendships with Foggy and with Karen Page as well towards the end of season two in that in the interim, at least, he's decided this is the best way for him to try and kind of at least get some kind of balance to his life really.

00:43:08.703 --> 00:43:10.503
[CHRIS]And that's kind of how I took it.

00:43:10.843 --> 00:43:12.503
[CHRIS]And it was nice to see Foggy there.

00:43:12.543 --> 00:43:24.943
[CHRIS]But obviously, in the with Luke Cage, helping Luke Cage out, that relationship potentially is still strained because we didn't see him with with Matt Murdock.

00:43:25.183 --> 00:43:35.523
[CHRIS]I really like Karen's and I like the way she kind of said it to to to Matt Murdock, where she said, I think we all had to figure out who we were.

00:43:35.583 --> 00:43:41.383
[CHRIS]I thought that was a really nice way of putting the fact that, to be honest, it wasn't just you, Matt.

00:43:41.803 --> 00:43:46.423
[CHRIS]I was going through my thing and maybe Foggy was as well, really.

00:43:46.983 --> 00:43:49.823
[DEREK]And I like that they didn't rush over the cart, but what happened at the end of the season?

00:43:49.843 --> 00:43:50.483
[DEREK]They do explain it.

00:43:50.503 --> 00:43:58.443
[DEREK]They do explain that he came into that room, showed her exactly who he is, the secret that he had, and she kind of walked away after hearing the secret.

00:43:58.463 --> 00:44:03.303
[DEREK]It sounds like it sounds like she kind of said, you know, I wonder, are you telling me this so I don't discover it?

00:44:03.303 --> 00:44:06.283
[DEREK]Are you do you mean to release your secret identity kind of thing to me?

00:44:06.483 --> 00:44:08.743
[DEREK]Are you sure that was the right thing that you wanted to do it?

00:44:09.683 --> 00:44:20.583
[DEREK]And then they just have broken apart to go and discover themselves and find out who they are before they come back, because it does call into question so much of Karen Page's character throughout season one and season two.

00:44:20.603 --> 00:44:28.943
[DEREK]She didn't know it was Daredevil that she was talking about and had a certain opinion about him forming and certain opinion about all vigilantes forming from her dealings with Punisher.

00:44:28.963 --> 00:44:32.283
[DEREK]So, so I like that they did deal with it, that they did talk about it.

00:44:32.743 --> 00:44:41.383
[DEREK]And I do like the fact that while he isn't Daredevil and is not out fighting, he does say to Latham, I lied to her, I want to go back to that life.

00:44:42.103 --> 00:44:45.783
[DEREK]I don't, I don't want to be the way I am, not living that life.

00:44:45.803 --> 00:44:47.063
[DEREK]I think that was a lovely touch.

00:44:47.083 --> 00:44:56.403
[DEREK]So the good thing is for anybody who doubted it at all, at some point over the next seven episodes will obviously see Daredevil back, I like the fact that he's calling it out.

00:44:56.423 --> 00:44:59.783
[DEREK]So, so he is going to be back as Daredevil later on in the season.

00:45:00.023 --> 00:45:01.583
[CHRIS]Okay, boys, it's time.

00:45:02.023 --> 00:45:04.723
[CHRIS]Can we talk about the chocolate love and the hot coffee himself?

00:45:05.623 --> 00:45:05.783
[CHRIS]Mr.

00:45:05.803 --> 00:45:10.783
[CHRIS]Mike Colter, the indestructible location is back.

00:45:11.243 --> 00:45:13.643
[CHRIS]The abs are back in town.

00:45:13.663 --> 00:45:20.283
[CHRIS]I tell you what now, I could handle my kitchen being destroyed in that way, to be honest.

00:45:20.983 --> 00:45:23.443
[CHRIS]I loved how they picked up his story.

00:45:24.183 --> 00:45:34.263
[CHRIS]I just loved the ease in which he kind of left Seagate and just the snapping of the cuffs in front of the warden.

00:45:34.763 --> 00:45:41.403
[CHRIS]The coolness in which he drove by public transportation, which is unusual in America.

00:45:41.683 --> 00:45:42.703
[CHRIS]Back to Harlem.

00:45:42.743 --> 00:45:52.803
[CHRIS]You know, some really nice shots that you picked out, Derek, you know, as he's coming into Harlem, you see Pop's Barber Shop there, just as that little reference.

00:45:52.923 --> 00:46:03.363
[CHRIS]I love the fact that he's just out of prison, he still sees himself as the hero of Harlem, which is what he was being called by the people of Harlem.

00:46:03.643 --> 00:46:07.503
[CHRIS]I love that he's taken on that mantle and wants to do good.

00:46:07.903 --> 00:46:23.103
[CHRIS]But I like the fact that, you know, he has his challenge from Claire Temple here, you know, that their post-sex kind of talks to each other, really.

00:46:23.203 --> 00:46:30.463
[DEREK]Yeah, I do like the fact that he calls out that he doesn't call himself the hero of Harlem, as you say, he calls out the fact that the people of Harlem call him that.

00:46:30.643 --> 00:46:35.863
[DEREK]The kid that says to him later on, you're the hero, even what you do can't save me.

00:46:35.883 --> 00:46:38.923
[DEREK]And he goes, hero is your word and walks out.

00:46:38.943 --> 00:46:43.723
[DEREK]A nice little touch to make sure that we don't say that he's kind of looking for the limelight.

00:46:43.743 --> 00:46:50.463
[DEREK]But I like how they're treating him here, like they're treating him as the celebrity in Harlem, that everybody knows him, everybody knows what he's capable of.

00:46:50.663 --> 00:46:53.063
[DEREK]That's not the case for any of the other characters.

00:46:53.083 --> 00:46:59.943
[DEREK]Some people have heard of Iron Fist, you hear the guy from the hand at the beginning saying, calling him Iron Fist when he says, I'm Danny Rand.

00:46:59.983 --> 00:47:02.083
[DEREK]So there's some of them that are known, some of them that aren't.

00:47:02.103 --> 00:47:09.583
[DEREK]But Luke Cage is definitely, everybody that meets him from the minute he gets off the bus knows exactly who he is and what exactly what he can do because he saved them from that.

00:47:09.643 --> 00:47:10.223
[CHRIS]Exactly.

00:47:10.243 --> 00:47:26.143
[CHRIS]And it's one of those other great little threads through this as well in that he is known and Jessica is known as these as these heroes, Daredevil and Iron Fist, at least within New York for Iron Fist.

00:47:26.163 --> 00:47:38.043
[CHRIS]He's known within the world of the hand and the cast and probably within the nine mysterious cities of heaven, or is it the seven mysterious cities of heaven?

00:47:38.323 --> 00:47:44.923
[CHRIS]But you know, he in New York, Iron Fist is not well known.

00:47:45.303 --> 00:47:52.323
[CHRIS]So I like that kind of thing that will sort of meet as well when they all come together.

00:47:52.343 --> 00:48:03.223
[DEREK]One of the other lovely touches we have here in Luke Cage, we talked about in our recap episode for Luke Cage, it was so driven as a show with music surrounding everything that was going on and setting up everything.

00:48:03.243 --> 00:48:08.543
[DEREK]I love the cut that goes into Seagate Prison when we see Luke Cage walking out for the first time.

00:48:08.803 --> 00:48:20.483
[DEREK]He's walking out to the song by Mostef Sunshine, a nice cool little touch to have the same kind of music playing for Luke Cage later on when he's going to meet up with Claire.

00:48:20.963 --> 00:48:25.883
[DEREK]We have D'Angelo's song, The Lion Playing, another very famous R&B song.

00:48:25.903 --> 00:48:38.823
[DEREK]Just nice touches to have this character have his own kind of segment of the show because so many of these people involved in the shows, people like Laram Weeks, the production designer and the writers and the directors have all been involved in the other shows.

00:48:38.843 --> 00:48:49.823
[DEREK]So particularly for Luke Cage, I felt having that moment when he walks out to music and kind of makes his way all the way to Claire to music is a nice touch to keep that in place.

00:48:50.083 --> 00:48:53.343
[DEREK]And yeah, as you mentioned earlier on, he has his meet up with Foggy Nelson.

00:48:53.363 --> 00:48:59.643
[DEREK]So while Foggy is a Daredevil character, he has our only real crossover, I think, in the episode.

00:48:59.663 --> 00:49:02.863
[DEREK]Everybody else has all met each other before in the series, everybody that's dealing with each other.

00:49:03.803 --> 00:49:05.183
[DEREK]So Foggy gets his crossover.

00:49:05.563 --> 00:49:10.623
[DEREK]He's definitely still working for Hogarth Chow and Benowitz and the Laura firm run by Jerry Hogarth.

00:49:10.923 --> 00:49:12.783
[DEREK]So that's a nice little moment.

00:49:12.843 --> 00:49:19.603
[DEREK]I love that there's a little slag from Luke Cage when he says, I'm Franklin Nelson, but most people call me Foggy and he goes, you let them.

00:49:20.403 --> 00:49:26.443
[DEREK]Nice little moment, but a nice smile from Foggy knowing that he's had a bit of a chance to meet the hero from Harlem.

00:49:26.923 --> 00:49:48.063
[CHRIS]And the other thing is that Luke Cage is absolutely focused on Black Mariah, like, you know, he's out and he wants to make sure that Black Mariah and Shades, yeah, absolutely are basically taken down by the law and that he can help in some way.

00:49:48.563 --> 00:50:04.883
[CHRIS]And I love that conversation with Misty Knight, who rudely interrupted his post prison coffee with Claire, which I thought was an interesting, if not probably awkward moment, if that were to happen.

00:50:05.183 --> 00:50:08.823
[CHRIS]I love that moment where they're walking down and she's brought into him.

00:50:08.843 --> 00:50:10.183
[CHRIS]She's on side with him.

00:50:10.243 --> 00:50:34.763
[CHRIS]Yeah, I could do with some help here on this as she kind of shows these burnt out cars and you kind of get to hear that there's this pattern of people getting new jobs that are off book, moving into a better neighborhood and so on and then all of a sudden they're found dead in a burnt out car.

00:50:35.063 --> 00:50:36.063
[CHRIS]Is it Black Mariah?

00:50:36.123 --> 00:50:44.623
[CHRIS]Is it something and shades or is it something connected maybe to the earthquake or any of this?

00:50:44.643 --> 00:50:53.523
[CHRIS]Are some of these threads that were introduced in these individual stories within this first episode, are they going to all link together?

00:50:53.543 --> 00:50:54.783
[DEREK]Yeah, I think so.

00:50:54.963 --> 00:51:00.283
[DEREK]It was great to see Misty Knight, she is another one of our favorite characters from the show, it was really good to see her back.

00:51:00.683 --> 00:51:02.803
[DEREK]I do love the reaction to Claire being interrupted.

00:51:02.823 --> 00:51:08.183
[DEREK]There's no comment on it really, she just sees Misty and goes, great new haircut to her.

00:51:08.623 --> 00:51:16.003
[DEREK]Now that she's got a bit closer to the Afro that we were expecting from Misty Knight, that's quite a cool little touch there.

00:51:16.543 --> 00:51:23.903
[DEREK]But yeah, former lover of Luke Cage, certainly no qualms about him being with Claire, there's no rivalry there, no love triangle there.

00:51:23.923 --> 00:51:25.763
[DEREK]It's just, I just needed to speak to him.

00:51:26.163 --> 00:51:26.923
[DEREK]I'm here, so.

00:51:27.003 --> 00:51:36.563
[CHRIS]Yeah, we very much got the sense that Misty and Claire have been talking since their meeting or the last, the penultimate episode of Luke Cage in Harland's Paradise.

00:51:36.583 --> 00:51:37.723
[CHRIS]You did get that sense.

00:51:38.963 --> 00:51:40.863
[CHRIS]I really enjoyed Luke's arc in this.

00:51:40.863 --> 00:51:48.363
[CHRIS]I thought it was brilliant in the way that they did it, that they brought a lot of the characters in, they closed a lot of the threads.

00:51:48.863 --> 00:51:52.703
[CHRIS]The one thing I can't understand is why Hogarth and Co.

00:51:52.983 --> 00:52:07.583
[CHRIS]were representing him, like that wasn't explained and hopefully we will get some, we will get a bit of Jerry action in terms of kind of going, hey, I'm representing Luke Cage, we wanted to do that.

00:52:07.643 --> 00:52:11.983
[CHRIS]Maybe she is the connecting thread that brings a few of them together, not just Claire.

00:52:12.403 --> 00:52:17.203
[CHRIS]We assumed that Claire Temple, aka Night Nurse, would be that person.

00:52:18.223 --> 00:52:20.743
[CHRIS]She has yet to be that person so far.

00:52:21.003 --> 00:52:22.603
[CHRIS]She has not connected and connect.

00:52:22.663 --> 00:52:26.783
[DEREK]She's just been in pretty much every single one of the shows so far.

00:52:26.783 --> 00:52:29.823
[DEREK]What I did like is another little movement for Misty Knight's character.

00:52:29.843 --> 00:52:34.443
[DEREK]We do hear that she's no longer just at a desk in the Harlem PD.

00:52:35.183 --> 00:52:38.823
[DEREK]She's now got her own task force effectively with a bunch of people reporting into her.

00:52:38.843 --> 00:52:43.263
[DEREK]She doesn't tell Luke much detail and I'm sure we'll get that throughout the episodes of the show.

00:52:43.283 --> 00:52:47.463
[DEREK]But it sounds like she's got quite a big deal going on after what happened with Luke.

00:52:47.723 --> 00:52:48.883
[CHRIS]Yeah, it does.

00:52:48.963 --> 00:53:04.303
[CHRIS]And again, is it connected more into the wider crime, which might bring her into contact with the hand and so on, and the drug trafficking as a cover for their operations?

00:53:05.163 --> 00:53:26.183
[CHRIS]I think the one thing I really liked as well with the story for Luke Cage was, I mentioned it before, I loved the personal challenge that Clark gave to him to say, how can you have your own life by just being a hero and trying to help others?

00:53:26.203 --> 00:53:30.203
[CHRIS]How can you marry those up to having a normal life?

00:53:31.323 --> 00:53:34.323
[CHRIS]Which I really liked the fact that she challenged him.

00:53:34.563 --> 00:53:41.063
[CHRIS]I also love when Luke Cage goes to the brother of Candice, who's in the apartment.

00:53:41.823 --> 00:53:53.723
[CHRIS]Luke is trying to have his quiet words with this kid, in the same way that maybe he would have learnt from how Pops was in his barber shop.

00:53:54.143 --> 00:53:56.623
[CHRIS]He calls him son and goes, I'm not your son.

00:53:57.423 --> 00:53:59.283
[CHRIS]It really builds to a head.

00:54:00.883 --> 00:54:11.663
[CHRIS]And finally, you can see the kid thinking about what he's saying, but then insists that he leaves and he doesn't bother him because it's too late.

00:54:12.223 --> 00:54:17.303
[CHRIS]And I love that kind of determination in this kid's eyes.

00:54:17.323 --> 00:54:49.603
[CHRIS]He's effectively facing down Luke Cage, who as the hero of Harlem, as the big bulletproof guy that he is, I thought that kind of was a really neat little touch that even with his reputation, even with the knowledge of the community that he is effectively indestructible and bulletproof, that this kid, for whatever reason, is saying, I don't want your help or I can't take your help.

00:54:49.623 --> 00:54:53.023
[CHRIS]And he's been quite defiant about it in his face.

00:54:53.503 --> 00:54:59.443
[CHRIS]And I love those two different ways of people challenging Luke Cage here.

00:54:59.463 --> 00:55:03.803
[CHRIS]I thought that was a really interesting little take for this character.

00:55:04.643 --> 00:55:05.023
[CHRIS]You know?

00:55:05.363 --> 00:55:06.523
[CHRIS]Yeah, okay.

00:55:06.543 --> 00:55:08.403
[CHRIS]I'm going to agree with you on the Claire point.

00:55:09.063 --> 00:55:10.163
[CHRIS]I really enjoyed that.

00:55:10.363 --> 00:55:13.983
[CHRIS]And it kind of straight away in my head is going, oh, heroes for hire.

00:55:14.303 --> 00:55:19.663
[CHRIS]You could do by help people and get paid.

00:55:19.783 --> 00:55:23.943
[CHRIS]We don't want to assume that all of our listeners are huge comic book fans.

00:55:24.143 --> 00:55:25.723
[CHRIS]So just a quick explanation.

00:55:25.943 --> 00:55:39.363
[CHRIS]Danny Rand, Iron Fist and Luke Cage, Power Man had a long running comic arc called Heroes for Hire, where they were just at Heroes for Hire, how they would help people for money, which was great.

00:55:39.483 --> 00:55:47.483
[CHRIS]I like that it was either a nice nod or it is a way that they will introduce Heroes for Hire at a later stage, maybe at the end of The Defenders.

00:55:48.163 --> 00:56:07.903
[CHRIS]The second part, I don't want to sound like a negative Nelly on this episode, because there was so much right there, but the part where Luke is discussing and chatting to Cannabis' brother, I had a bit of an eye roll at this, the part where he's like, it's too late for me, you can't save me, you can't help me.

00:56:08.483 --> 00:56:14.623
[CHRIS]You're saying this to the character who probably is the only man in Harlem who can save you and help you.

00:56:15.223 --> 00:56:28.603
[CHRIS]And I kind of got that, okay, we'll probably see this gentleman dead or injured at some point soon, and that will drive Luke to the hand to go against them, and that will be his driving force for this series.

00:56:29.123 --> 00:56:44.883
[CHRIS]I kind of have to disagree with you, because I think actually if it was, put all your troubles aside, I'm your Luke Cage, indestructible, oh yeah, go on, that's as tropey as the other way around.

00:56:45.643 --> 00:56:59.143
[CHRIS]That's why it resonated, I think, for myself anyway, it was just the fact that that would be the easy way to do it, and there are people that don't want to be helped or feel as though they're in too deep.

00:56:59.203 --> 00:57:10.803
[CHRIS]It reminded me of something from The Wire, where there are people so deep into crime that the anxiety, their fear really prevents them from getting help.

00:57:11.183 --> 00:57:16.563
[CHRIS]And that felt right in this situation, given he's been away from prison.

00:57:17.023 --> 00:57:21.383
[CHRIS]I think the trope element would have been that Luke comes in and immediately saves the day.

00:57:21.883 --> 00:57:30.703
[CHRIS]I think there's still a lot of options there in that Luke could still tail him to find out and be kind of that protector in the background.

00:57:30.783 --> 00:57:33.603
[DEREK]And remember what we see at the end of the episode is that Luke saves his mother.

00:57:33.623 --> 00:57:40.263
[DEREK]He saves his mother's life by stopping the light from falling on the car where she's lost one of her sons.

00:57:40.283 --> 00:57:49.623
[DEREK]So potentially at the start of the next episode, he now has a conversation with a mother who's lost one of her sons, one of her daughters and now going to lose somebody else in her life.

00:57:49.643 --> 00:57:51.343
[DEREK]So that is definitely there.

00:57:51.743 --> 00:57:57.223
[DEREK]I did like that Luke called out the fact that ask anybody in the neighborhood, they know what I can do.

00:57:57.583 --> 00:58:01.423
[DEREK]They'll tell you I'm the one to go to when you need to solve these types of problems.

00:58:01.443 --> 00:58:06.703
[DEREK]I love that little moment with Luke kind of leaning into the fact that he is becoming the hero of Harlem.

00:58:06.723 --> 00:58:08.023
[DEREK]I thought that was a really nice call out.

00:58:08.083 --> 00:58:11.703
[CHRIS]Like, I know what you mean, Chris, and I can see absolutely where you're coming from.

00:58:11.723 --> 00:58:25.243
[CHRIS]I think I saw the same thing that you saw from the other side, in a sense, in that maybe one of his weaknesses sometimes is that he wants to help too much and not everyone's willing to accept it.

00:58:25.263 --> 00:58:30.883
[CHRIS]So that's how I kind of took the kid in the apartment, how he was doing it.

00:58:30.903 --> 00:58:33.223
[CHRIS]But yeah, I know what you mean, definitely.

00:58:33.243 --> 00:58:40.383
[CHRIS]And I think we probably looked at it in the same way, from two different angles, really.

00:58:40.943 --> 00:58:49.743
[CHRIS]And ladies and gentlemen, that is the great point and part of this podcast is because with the three hosts, you always get different viewtakes.

00:58:49.783 --> 00:58:54.083
[CHRIS]So you can agree with John, you can be in the middle with Derek or you can be with me.

00:58:55.203 --> 00:58:56.703
[CHRIS]No one ever agrees with me.

00:58:56.883 --> 00:59:01.843
[CHRIS]There was a whole Doctor Strange podcast for everyone agreed with you for that one day.

00:59:02.903 --> 00:59:06.263
[DEREK]But overall, Luke Cage take of this show, I think it was really, really good.

00:59:06.283 --> 00:59:09.783
[DEREK]I liked the storyline and there's enough characters that I loved that are in there.

00:59:09.803 --> 00:59:15.943
[DEREK]So Claire Temples in the Luke Cage storyline, Misty Knight in the Luke Cage storyline to begin with.

00:59:15.963 --> 00:59:19.883
[DEREK]So those three characters on their own would make up a series for me.

00:59:19.903 --> 00:59:21.203
[DEREK]We've also got all the other characters.

00:59:21.223 --> 00:59:22.583
[DEREK]We've also got Jessica with her own story.

00:59:22.603 --> 00:59:27.263
[DEREK]We've got Matt with his and Danny with his, with Colleen Wing as well.

00:59:27.283 --> 00:59:29.063
[DEREK]So loads of good stuff going on in the episode.

00:59:29.083 --> 00:59:31.963
[DEREK]And I think Luke's was also a really strong part of it.

00:59:32.523 --> 00:59:46.723
[DEREK]Our fifth point, our fifth and final point for the episode is the other character introduced in the show and probably a really important character, Alexandra, played by Sigourney Weaver, who in her own words is going to be playing the adversary to the Defenders, not the villain, not the villain.

00:59:47.123 --> 00:59:49.263
[DEREK]She's going to be playing the adversary in the show.

00:59:49.763 --> 00:59:52.263
[DEREK]Interesting introduction to the character in this show.

00:59:54.143 --> 01:00:01.743
[DEREK]Certainly didn't expect it to be an introduction where she's going to get her possible life threatening cancer checked out by a doctor.

01:00:01.743 --> 01:00:04.183
[CHRIS]Yeah, this was really unexpected for me.

01:00:04.743 --> 01:00:45.423
[CHRIS]It was really unexpected choice and I'm still kind of in two minds as to whether it worked or it didn't because one side of me really liked that they opened up this new character with this choice and given the trailers for the Defenders were, you know, you've got this whole talk of bringing forward a plan and so on and potentially you see in this episode that the reason for that plan being accelerated is down to her own personal choice because of what she's potentially being told by medical specialists about how long she's got to live.

01:00:45.843 --> 01:00:53.983
[CHRIS]So I thought that was really unexpected and really kind of intriguing and interesting that that's the direction that they came at it.

01:00:54.543 --> 01:01:06.683
[CHRIS]And then on the other side of it, it was, well, just put her in an urn and feed her blood from a million hand minions and hey presto.

01:01:06.703 --> 01:01:08.383
[CHRIS]100%.

01:01:08.643 --> 01:01:15.883
[CHRIS]So this was this is the head scratcher for me and that I was slightly confused and confuzzled by.

01:01:16.223 --> 01:01:46.443
[CHRIS]So we have a we are introduced to a an entity that is stronger and more powerful and that Madame Gao reports into that we can see and we can talk about Madame Gao in a second who who has the power to be reanimated but is so so worried about dying that she accelerates plans that we are told may not happen in the best way because of the acceleration.

01:01:46.723 --> 01:02:01.043
[CHRIS]So this kind of left me as a slight head scratcher because I was like in Iron Fist, we are introduced to Harold Meacham who is has cancer dies and is brought back to life and everything's fine.

01:02:01.183 --> 01:02:02.383
[CHRIS]Yeah.

01:02:02.403 --> 01:02:05.883
[CHRIS]Well, he's a walking talking zombie, but everything's fine to me.

01:02:05.903 --> 01:02:07.823
[DEREK]A very murderous man, that's right.

01:02:08.383 --> 01:02:08.603
[DEREK]Yes.

01:02:08.623 --> 01:02:18.603
[CHRIS]So I'm just wondering, like, is she almost as old as Madame Gao, who we know has a couple of centuries on her and we're just curious.

01:02:19.063 --> 01:02:23.023
[CHRIS]Is it just like, is it the that you don't want to die?

01:02:23.343 --> 01:02:25.763
[CHRIS]This is the it's it's a head scratcher.

01:02:25.783 --> 01:02:26.943
[CHRIS]I don't want to say I'm annoyed.

01:02:26.963 --> 01:02:29.283
[CHRIS]I don't want to say I didn't like the introduction.

01:02:29.703 --> 01:02:30.703
[CHRIS]I'm just like, huh?

01:02:31.143 --> 01:02:31.803
[DEREK]Well, it should be.

01:02:32.023 --> 01:02:33.943
[DEREK]It's the first episode of an eight episode series.

01:02:33.963 --> 01:02:35.923
[DEREK]We shouldn't get everything thrown at us immediately.

01:02:35.943 --> 01:02:37.223
[DEREK]I think it's a good introduction for me.

01:02:37.723 --> 01:02:40.123
[DEREK]I was absolutely convinced and I had to look it up.

01:02:40.143 --> 01:02:48.103
[DEREK]I was absolutely convinced the doctor that was talking to her was exactly the same doctor that told Doctor Strange, no matter how much money you have, you can't fix this problem.

01:02:48.123 --> 01:02:49.763
[DEREK]I'm not willing to take on this job.

01:02:49.783 --> 01:02:52.223
[DEREK]I thought it was exactly the same because it's such a similar line.

01:02:52.443 --> 01:02:54.143
[DEREK]I wish they'd got the actor to do it.

01:02:54.423 --> 01:02:55.443
[DEREK]And he's a French guy as well.

01:02:55.463 --> 01:02:58.143
[DEREK]So two two French doctors completely confused me.

01:02:58.163 --> 01:02:59.083
[DEREK]It's not the same actor.

01:02:59.543 --> 01:03:01.183
[DEREK]I did like it, though.

01:03:01.203 --> 01:03:03.243
[DEREK]I did like her introduction here.

01:03:03.483 --> 01:03:05.063
[DEREK]And yes, Chris, absolutely.

01:03:05.143 --> 01:03:16.143
[DEREK]As fans and watchers of Iron Fist, seeing that she's going through something that we have seen Harold Meacham go through, the big question, yes, is why isn't he doing what Harold Meacham did?

01:03:16.163 --> 01:03:18.323
[DEREK]Because she doesn't maybe she doesn't want to.

01:03:18.343 --> 01:03:19.203
[DEREK]There's a reason for it.

01:03:19.423 --> 01:03:24.983
[DEREK]Harold Meacham did go absolutely crazy killing people all around him after being brought back from the dead.

01:03:25.223 --> 01:03:26.103
[DEREK]He couldn't die.

01:03:26.163 --> 01:03:30.103
[DEREK]He was killed once and came back to life during the series of the show as well.

01:03:30.103 --> 01:03:33.303
[DEREK]So there's some reason that there's a risk to this.

01:03:33.303 --> 01:03:39.043
[DEREK]We see with Elektra that she is also brought back from the dead and she doesn't seem to have much memory.

01:03:39.263 --> 01:03:43.103
[DEREK]And she has very direct dealings with Alexandra in the episode.

01:03:43.123 --> 01:03:48.083
[DEREK]So potentially Alexandra knows there's something wrong with this process of bringing people back from the dead.

01:03:48.103 --> 01:03:52.963
[DEREK]And maybe there's another process out there that won't let her potentially lose her memories or become murderous.

01:03:53.083 --> 01:03:57.743
[DEREK]And she can keep the power that she's attained over these many years.

01:03:57.763 --> 01:03:59.283
[DEREK]There's a reference to the fact that she does.

01:03:59.623 --> 01:04:06.803
[DEREK]I don't know whether she's just referencing just some general trivia or general Google stuff, but that's almost like I was there.

01:04:06.823 --> 01:04:08.843
[DEREK]It's a very ancient piece of New York history.

01:04:09.163 --> 01:04:16.763
[DEREK]And she says that New Yorkers can't imagine the city being covered in trees as if I was there when it was covered in trees almost.

01:04:16.783 --> 01:04:17.843
[CHRIS]Yes, absolutely.

01:04:17.923 --> 01:04:32.443
[CHRIS]And I think that's certainly one of the reasons that she may not want to go through that process because she knows that she does a Harold Meacham and starts attacking people with ice cream scoops and stuff like that.

01:04:32.463 --> 01:04:34.883
[DEREK]Yeah, goes to ice cream parlour and knows everybody you can vanilla ice cream.

01:04:34.903 --> 01:04:37.063
[CHRIS]But I did, like that's the thing.

01:04:37.083 --> 01:04:47.703
[CHRIS]I think it was judgment in a sense or my final view on it really is held just to see whether there's any further explanation.

01:04:47.803 --> 01:04:51.543
[CHRIS]But I can take it equally that she doesn't want to be like Harold.

01:04:51.823 --> 01:04:53.943
[CHRIS]She knows, yeah, there's an issue with the process.

01:04:54.003 --> 01:04:58.523
[CHRIS]But I was still thinking that she's got that to hand, so to speak.

01:04:58.543 --> 01:05:04.063
[CHRIS]But I thought it was a really interesting way to introduce her character.

01:05:04.663 --> 01:05:15.723
[CHRIS]And of course, not only do you have one amazing lady with Sigourney Weaver and Alexandra, but you also had Madame Gao coming in again.

01:05:15.763 --> 01:05:21.523
[CHRIS]Like you said, Chris, almost sort of very much subservient to Alexandra.

01:05:21.543 --> 01:05:29.123
[CHRIS]I think Alexandra gives her the bag of seed or bread to finish feeding the pigeons in that conversation.

01:05:29.643 --> 01:05:38.203
[CHRIS]And it's funny, Madame Gao is almost kind of slightly concerned as to why things are being rushed, you know, a lot of time has been spent on this.

01:05:38.223 --> 01:05:54.163
[CHRIS]Yeah, but again, it was really nice to see Madame Gao in this episode for me, I absolutely have really loved this character from Iron Fist and obviously right back to the early days of Daredevil.

01:05:54.183 --> 01:06:00.843
[CHRIS]And it's nice to see her being involved here in this storyline and to what extent.

01:06:01.043 --> 01:06:15.163
[CHRIS]And she's dismissed very quickly when she comes back to Alexandra after putting her request in into process, you know, that things are being moved forward and it's almost dismissive.

01:06:15.483 --> 01:06:22.883
[DEREK]So very much like you can imagine the moment it's Madame Gao does walk quite slowly, even though she can fight, she walks very slowly.

01:06:22.903 --> 01:06:27.983
[DEREK]So she's gotten to the top of a building to come and see Alexandra to tell her this piece of information.

01:06:28.283 --> 01:06:31.583
[DEREK]She gets about half a sentence out and then is told, no, thank you.

01:06:31.703 --> 01:06:34.183
[DEREK]This is what's happening on your merry way.

01:06:35.663 --> 01:06:50.523
[CHRIS]I've got images of her like Professor Farnsworth or something just creeping very slowly, taking a long time to get there, arriving and being asked to go very slowly.

01:06:52.123 --> 01:06:52.903
[CHRIS]Poor Madame Gao.

01:06:53.303 --> 01:06:53.583
[DEREK]Yes.

01:06:53.603 --> 01:06:54.863
[DEREK]But who has the power?

01:06:55.203 --> 01:06:57.523
[DEREK]Who has this type of power?

01:06:57.543 --> 01:07:00.863
[DEREK]Why is it that Alexandra has such power over Madame Gao?

01:07:01.843 --> 01:07:03.283
[DEREK]All to find out throughout the season.

01:07:03.303 --> 01:07:04.463
[DEREK]I'm really intrigued to find out.

01:07:04.623 --> 01:07:04.983
[CHRIS]Yeah.

01:07:05.223 --> 01:07:08.203
[CHRIS]It's a question as we know the hand has multiple fingers.

01:07:08.583 --> 01:07:10.803
[CHRIS]One was Madame Gao, one was Bacuto.

01:07:10.823 --> 01:07:11.483
[CHRIS]We knew that.

01:07:11.503 --> 01:07:14.923
[CHRIS]There was also Nobu from Daredevil.

01:07:15.123 --> 01:07:17.383
[CHRIS]So we know that there is kind of lieutenant.

01:07:17.823 --> 01:07:19.543
[CHRIS]Is she the general?

01:07:20.043 --> 01:07:22.203
[CHRIS]Is she the palm of the hand, if you will?

01:07:22.863 --> 01:07:24.163
[CHRIS]The connecting force.

01:07:25.303 --> 01:07:28.983
[CHRIS]So again, as you said, yeah, this is the introduction.

01:07:29.003 --> 01:07:30.763
[CHRIS]This was episode one.

01:07:30.903 --> 01:07:32.163
[CHRIS]We're not going to get all the answers.

01:07:32.163 --> 01:07:35.123
[CHRIS]And I'm dying to know more about this character.

01:07:35.223 --> 01:07:35.523
[DEREK]Yeah.

01:07:35.563 --> 01:07:36.623
[CHRIS]I'm dying to know more.

01:07:36.863 --> 01:07:45.383
[DEREK]So interestingly, obviously the ending moment of the episode when we get all of the characters back together is because there's an earthquake going on in New York.

01:07:45.663 --> 01:07:51.503
[DEREK]And each one of them are shown experiencing that earthquake at the same time in their various pursuits across the city.

01:07:51.923 --> 01:07:57.463
[DEREK]Is this earthquake connected to our famous hole at the end of season two of Daredevil?

01:07:57.483 --> 01:08:00.843
[DEREK]We'll know obviously by the next episode, but we don't watch ahead, listeners, as you know.

01:08:02.023 --> 01:08:10.943
[DEREK]So do we think that the dig that was going on in Daredevil season two, by rushing the plan, have they destabilized some of New York?

01:08:11.123 --> 01:08:28.603
[CHRIS]It is a classic reference to View to a Kill with James Bond, where they put explosives down in a big hole in order to cause the San Andreas Fault to move and slip to cause flooding in an area.

01:08:29.263 --> 01:08:30.663
[DEREK]So they can sell all the property?

01:08:30.663 --> 01:08:30.943
[CHRIS]Yeah.

01:08:31.423 --> 01:08:32.063
[DEREK]Interesting.

01:08:33.123 --> 01:08:40.983
[CHRIS]Zorin Industries returns, but they've taken it, they've done a corporate takeover of the hand.

01:08:41.343 --> 01:08:41.923
[DEREK]I like it.

01:08:42.263 --> 01:08:45.643
[CHRIS]Yeah, I'm hoping it has a connection to the hole.

01:08:45.823 --> 01:08:52.683
[CHRIS]I'm hoping it is the large hand coming out of the hole that we prophesied back in season two of Daredevil.

01:08:53.463 --> 01:08:59.043
[CHRIS]That is what will happen, it's the will we, the we that you know you guys believe it to.

01:08:59.803 --> 01:09:04.623
[CHRIS]Are crazy theories that potentially will never come true, one of, I'm hoping so.

01:09:05.483 --> 01:09:06.903
[CHRIS]Again, the will are.

01:09:07.043 --> 01:09:09.303
[DEREK]Those are the top five words for the episode, guys.

01:09:09.343 --> 01:09:11.423
[DEREK]Couple of notes probably about the episode.

01:09:11.443 --> 01:09:12.243
[DEREK]It was a pretty big one.

01:09:13.063 --> 01:09:15.203
[CHRIS]Yeah, so I don't have any Easter eggs just yet.

01:09:15.263 --> 01:09:20.363
[CHRIS]I'll probably be able to pick a few more as we delve into the series.

01:09:20.683 --> 01:09:25.043
[CHRIS]The first one I wanted to talk about was the actual directors and the production designer.

01:09:25.743 --> 01:09:28.983
[CHRIS]Their usage of colour throughout this episode.

01:09:29.683 --> 01:09:31.163
[CHRIS]I thought it was fantastic.

01:09:31.343 --> 01:09:36.563
[CHRIS]We were introduced to Matt bathed in red throughout a lot of the show.

01:09:36.843 --> 01:09:38.803
[CHRIS]Luke's bathed in yellow.

01:09:39.483 --> 01:09:41.463
[CHRIS]We have Iron Fist bathed in green.

01:09:41.803 --> 01:09:48.243
[CHRIS]And Jessica bathed in the Kalylaki purple that is kind of given to her.

01:09:48.483 --> 01:09:49.383
[CHRIS]I really loved this.

01:09:49.383 --> 01:09:59.003
[CHRIS]It was a nice aesthetic to show you which story and which character this scene was referencing.

01:09:59.043 --> 01:10:00.623
[CHRIS]Even if the character was not on screen.

01:10:00.783 --> 01:10:01.583
[DEREK]Yeah, absolutely.

01:10:01.823 --> 01:10:02.783
[DEREK]I thought it was a great touch.

01:10:02.803 --> 01:10:13.803
[DEREK]And I think I'm wondering how it's going to be taken by people who've watched all the series, but definitely to point out that there are people that are going to be watching The Defenders and only The Defenders.

01:10:13.823 --> 01:10:20.103
[DEREK]And I do think this is a really good key to people that haven't seen it before that you're watching for completely different storylines.

01:10:20.123 --> 01:10:21.163
[DEREK]I think it's a nice touch.

01:10:21.443 --> 01:10:25.523
[DEREK]You do definitely pick it up, that Luke Cage's scenes are bathed in sunlight.

01:10:25.803 --> 01:10:28.383
[DEREK]He's out in the open after leaving prison.

01:10:28.403 --> 01:10:33.943
[DEREK]It doesn't necessarily have to mean that it's just his character's yellow, so we're coloring the place in yellow.

01:10:33.963 --> 01:10:44.183
[DEREK]It also has a meaning for his character because Jessica Jones tends to be in the danker parts of the city because of what she's doing, the type of investigations that she's doing.

01:10:44.423 --> 01:10:48.003
[DEREK]That's why the purple bathing works really well for her pieces.

01:10:48.023 --> 01:10:58.623
[CHRIS]It's purple or even going into a blue, a bluer tone as well, which it chimes with that private investigator vibe as well.

01:10:58.643 --> 01:11:02.503
[CHRIS]I really enjoyed the green as well for Iron Fist.

01:11:02.523 --> 01:11:18.943
[CHRIS]I felt it seemed much more that it melted into the background, like it was the color on the dashboard of the helicopter or of New York City and its lights as they were flying over.

01:11:19.443 --> 01:11:29.723
[CHRIS]And even just almost gray greens, like that opening sequence really wasn't that green, but you got hints of a gray green through that sewer network.

01:11:30.423 --> 01:11:36.183
[DEREK]And then absolutely with Daredevil being bathed in the neon lights of the lights that are on outside of his apartment.

01:11:36.203 --> 01:11:42.603
[DEREK]The reason why he has cheap rent in that apartment, remember, is because there's so much light coming in from outside that he's the only person that can live there.

01:11:42.623 --> 01:11:50.023
[DEREK]So all nice touches and all, you know, it's not just the fact that they colored every scene to indicate the character.

01:11:50.043 --> 01:11:52.083
[DEREK]It's also there is a reason within those scenes.

01:11:52.103 --> 01:11:52.803
[DEREK]So really good choices.

01:11:52.823 --> 01:12:05.503
[CHRIS]Yeah, and they did almost obviously not to the same extent, but almost like Batman 66 transition between sort of the different moments of going from one of the characters to another.

01:12:05.523 --> 01:12:14.063
[CHRIS]So I think there's one moment where there's a lot of trains going by and a bus and then it goes to I think Luke Cage or something like that.

01:12:14.583 --> 01:12:32.123
[CHRIS]But there are edits between the different characters and their particular story being told at that moment or that part of the arc, that kind of transitional edit, which I thought was kind of interesting because that really hasn't been used before in any of the individual series.

01:12:32.143 --> 01:12:33.943
[DEREK]Yeah, they've never really had to do it.

01:12:33.963 --> 01:12:34.263
[DEREK]It's good.

01:12:34.563 --> 01:12:41.323
[DEREK]And I think it will help a lot of new watchers or people that don't remember and didn't go back to the series as well.

01:12:41.523 --> 01:12:43.163
[DEREK]It's a good way of kind of indicating as they go.

01:12:43.323 --> 01:12:50.003
[CHRIS]Yeah, John, I really when you said Batman 66 there, I just had this vision of like the logo spinning out.

01:12:50.523 --> 01:12:52.903
[CHRIS]Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't as on the nose as that.

01:12:52.983 --> 01:12:53.683
[CHRIS]Absolutely.

01:12:53.703 --> 01:12:56.083
[CHRIS]It was more subtle, more appropriate.

01:12:56.103 --> 01:13:02.943
[CHRIS]But it definitely had those transitional edits to move between the different characters as well.

01:13:02.983 --> 01:13:05.743
[CHRIS]Certainly, I think it was after the initial introduction.

01:13:05.763 --> 01:13:06.263
[CHRIS]Definitely.

01:13:06.283 --> 01:13:06.983
[CHRIS]And that was really good.

01:13:07.583 --> 01:13:14.003
[DEREK]Usually on these shows, as we get our first episode out, we usually talk about the opening titles at the beginning of the episode.

01:13:14.023 --> 01:13:18.143
[DEREK]We're going to save this for notes this time, obviously, because it's important to have the chat.

01:13:18.163 --> 01:13:18.703
[DEREK]They're brand new.

01:13:18.723 --> 01:13:19.603
[DEREK]There's brand new titles.

01:13:19.623 --> 01:13:21.203
[DEREK]There's brand new theme music in here.

01:13:21.523 --> 01:13:22.863
[DEREK]Chris, what do you think of the opening titles?

01:13:23.023 --> 01:13:24.363
[CHRIS]I loved it, guys.

01:13:24.423 --> 01:13:25.643
[CHRIS]I'm not even going to lie.

01:13:25.963 --> 01:13:31.283
[CHRIS]Straight away, they took elements from everyone's opening titles, mashed them together.

01:13:33.303 --> 01:13:43.503
[CHRIS]One of the little details I loved was the map being shown out of their silhouette was actually the areas that they were attached to.

01:13:43.823 --> 01:13:46.663
[CHRIS]So Hell's Kitchen was a map of Hell's Kitchen on Daredevil.

01:13:46.923 --> 01:13:53.103
[CHRIS]There was Harlem very prominently seen as from a map scape on Luke Cage.

01:13:53.123 --> 01:13:55.803
[CHRIS]It was just a really nice touch.

01:13:56.363 --> 01:13:57.223
[CHRIS]Yep, definitely.

01:13:57.243 --> 01:14:03.643
[CHRIS]I love that kind of that map creeping through the silhouette of the different characters.

01:14:04.043 --> 01:14:11.383
[CHRIS]I love the fact that Iron Fist kind of got nested in with Luke Cage as well and standing in front of him.

01:14:11.403 --> 01:14:22.843
[CHRIS]I thought that was a really good little touch again, kind of almost suggesting their friendship and that partnership as heroes for hire.

01:14:23.663 --> 01:14:41.223
[CHRIS]Even where, I think again, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones come together and then they all kind of start sequencing through all the different characters as they build to being a group of four, which I thought was really nice.

01:14:41.403 --> 01:14:45.643
[CHRIS]And I think I really like the Luke Cage one.

01:14:45.663 --> 01:15:01.103
[CHRIS]I love the determination on his face and I think for Iron Fist as well, it was because for Daredevil, you got that classic pose of Daredevil looking kind of down and off to one side, like you get at the end of his opening titles.

01:15:01.203 --> 01:15:13.283
[CHRIS]Whereas for Luke Cage and Iron Fist, it seemed more recognizable as, you know, as Danny Rand, as Finn Jones and Mike Colter and Luke Cage.

01:15:13.683 --> 01:15:16.403
[CHRIS]But I really liked the Iron Fist.

01:15:16.883 --> 01:15:28.563
[CHRIS]I thought the expression on the face really gave a sense of sort of anguish and anxiety from the PTSD, I think, that Danny suffers from.

01:15:28.703 --> 01:15:30.963
[CHRIS]I kind of like that touch.

01:15:31.303 --> 01:15:32.923
[CHRIS]You know, you see the beard as well.

01:15:32.923 --> 01:15:38.063
[CHRIS]So, yeah, great opening titles and obviously keeping the color motif throughout.

01:15:38.183 --> 01:15:38.743
[DEREK]Absolutely.

01:15:38.763 --> 01:15:40.103
[DEREK]Yeah, the opening theme was great.

01:15:40.123 --> 01:15:44.243
[DEREK]It did feel like something that belonged within the kind of series overall.

01:15:44.343 --> 01:15:49.383
[DEREK]It felt like it did take a cue from some of the other shows and was mixed, much like our new opening theme.

01:15:50.003 --> 01:15:50.423
[CHRIS]Yeah.

01:15:50.443 --> 01:15:53.103
[DEREK]A little mix of our previous themes.

01:15:53.183 --> 01:15:54.763
[CHRIS]Yeah, no, Derek, I completely agree.

01:15:54.783 --> 01:15:59.783
[CHRIS]That was one thing I was going to actually ask you as our music maestro, while you thought about the theme music.

01:15:59.803 --> 01:16:04.923
[CHRIS]I'm interested to see, would it change somewhat over the course?

01:16:05.623 --> 01:16:09.163
[CHRIS]Will we get a silhouette of the hand, perhaps, in the theme?

01:16:09.783 --> 01:16:16.283
[CHRIS]Like there was some shows now do make slight changes, not Netflix shows, but other shows do make slight changes to the opening credits.

01:16:16.343 --> 01:16:27.183
[DEREK]I think with Netflix, usually it's because it advances you past the opening credits on the next time you watch an episode because you're bingeing all eight, which we're not doing, so we will see the credits every time we watch the show, and I'm happy about that.

01:16:27.203 --> 01:16:28.023
[DEREK]They're pretty good.

01:16:28.343 --> 01:16:29.683
[CHRIS]Yeah, I'm happy too.

01:16:29.723 --> 01:16:34.783
[DEREK]On that note, of us being happy, let's see whether we defend the episode or not.

01:16:35.603 --> 01:16:39.803
[DEREK]John, do you defend the first episode of The Defenders on Netflix?

01:16:40.163 --> 01:16:44.583
[CHRIS]Yes, I do defend this episode of The Defenders.

01:16:44.943 --> 01:16:53.403
[CHRIS]I give this four rickety kitchen tables and a flying fruit bowl for this out of five.

01:16:54.043 --> 01:17:04.403
[CHRIS]Yes, in good old Luke Cage fashion, this is coffee with cake for me and a side order of whiskey chucked into it as well.

01:17:04.943 --> 01:17:09.523
[CHRIS]I really enjoyed reconnecting with all four of The Defenders here.

01:17:09.803 --> 01:17:17.043
[CHRIS]For me personally, I felt that the treatment of Iron Fist here felt just much darker.

01:17:17.563 --> 01:17:23.003
[CHRIS]It felt more atmospheric and it just felt intuitively better.

01:17:23.023 --> 01:17:30.743
[CHRIS]As I was saying, I loved how Alexandra was introduced into this unusual and unexpected as it was.

01:17:31.863 --> 01:17:34.963
[CHRIS]I kind of liked that they showed her immediately vulnerable.

01:17:35.243 --> 01:17:38.523
[CHRIS]I thought that was a really nice little touch here.

01:17:38.843 --> 01:17:53.543
[CHRIS]Yet she shows how powerful she is, at least within the organization, by being able to be quite forthright and dismissive to Madame Gao, who we know in herself is a very powerful member of the Hand.

01:17:54.183 --> 01:18:10.463
[CHRIS]I mean, I just loved every moment that Jessica Jones was on screen, everything about her as a dysfunctional person living in New York, really just wanting that quiet life.

01:18:11.023 --> 01:18:18.683
[CHRIS]It was great to see Malcolm back connecting here for Derdevil, that personal intimate tone.

01:18:18.963 --> 01:18:21.983
[CHRIS]Really, I enjoyed an awful lot.

01:18:22.003 --> 01:18:25.043
[CHRIS]And certainly this meeting with Karen Page.

01:18:26.363 --> 01:18:30.423
[CHRIS]Yeah, and with Luke, I mean, you know, the abs were back.

01:18:30.523 --> 01:18:42.563
[CHRIS]And I liked that uncomfortableness feeling from him of, you know, being so well known, but I'm wanting to help and be a hero, but not wanting to be called one.

01:18:42.763 --> 01:19:09.423
[CHRIS]And I like some of the threads that really moved through this, which I, which compared and contrasted the different individual members of the Defenders and it'll be great to see them start to intersect with one another's lives and to ultimately team up and to find out more about the hands ultimate plan.

01:19:09.443 --> 01:19:10.743
[CHRIS]So yeah, absolutely.

01:19:10.763 --> 01:19:16.643
[CHRIS]It could be four flying fruit bowls and a rickety kitchen table out of five.

01:19:16.703 --> 01:19:17.023
[DEREK]Nice.

01:19:17.303 --> 01:19:17.683
[DEREK]Nice.

01:19:18.063 --> 01:19:22.103
[CHRIS]So Chris, do you defend this episode of the Defenders?

01:19:22.683 --> 01:19:24.203
[CHRIS]I 100% do, lads.

01:19:24.263 --> 01:19:27.003
[CHRIS]I'm so happy to be back in this world.

01:19:27.763 --> 01:19:31.063
[CHRIS]I'm happy with everything they've done as the introduction.

01:19:31.083 --> 01:19:36.743
[CHRIS]I, as I said, throughout this podcast, I had minor gripes, literally minor.

01:19:37.203 --> 01:19:44.803
[CHRIS]Nothing took away from this four small arcs that were given in reintroducing these characters beautifully.

01:19:45.683 --> 01:19:46.803
[CHRIS]It's the best way I can say it.

01:19:47.103 --> 01:19:58.183
[CHRIS]And then the tease that is the hand and Alexandria and that introduction of Sigourney Weaver, that is, I'm dying to know more now.

01:19:58.243 --> 01:20:00.163
[CHRIS]Why is she not using the urine?

01:20:00.723 --> 01:20:01.743
[CHRIS]How long has she lived?

01:20:01.763 --> 01:20:03.363
[CHRIS]Is this a thing that will happen?

01:20:03.383 --> 01:20:07.163
[CHRIS]Is she multiple thousands of years old, hundreds of years old, I should say?

01:20:07.183 --> 01:20:08.663
[CHRIS]I'm dying to know.

01:20:09.263 --> 01:20:21.183
[CHRIS]And of course, the end on the cliffhanger, as we've talked to her many times, that we know Netflix now know how to write cliffhanger endings that make you want to binge to the next episode.

01:20:21.423 --> 01:20:28.863
[CHRIS]And that is how we are left rather than a cliffhanger or we are given a literal earthquake.

01:20:29.803 --> 01:20:31.763
[CHRIS]I 100% defend this, guys.

01:20:32.103 --> 01:20:34.203
[CHRIS]I can't wait to get onto episode two.

01:20:34.583 --> 01:20:37.303
[CHRIS]It is just where I want to be now.

01:20:37.443 --> 01:20:43.103
[CHRIS]I can't wait to snuggle in with the Defenders for eight beautiful episodes altogether, seven more from here.

01:20:43.123 --> 01:20:44.443
[CHRIS]That's all I can say.

01:20:44.463 --> 01:20:45.883
[CHRIS]I can't say any more.

01:20:45.903 --> 01:20:50.903
[CHRIS]Derek, do you defend this episode of The Defenders?

01:20:51.223 --> 01:20:51.883
[DEREK]Yes, I do.

01:20:52.003 --> 01:20:52.743
[DEREK]Absolutely.

01:20:52.763 --> 01:20:54.383
[DEREK]Yeah, this is great.

01:20:54.523 --> 01:21:02.483
[DEREK]Before you guys had seen this, I got a little bit of a sneak peek because I was up early in the morning just when we received our early copy from Netflix.

01:21:02.783 --> 01:21:16.003
[DEREK]The only comment I could make before you watched the episode was each of the four characters gets their own bit and they each do something that we thought was pretty cool when we watched them on the shows, when we watched their individual shows.

01:21:16.023 --> 01:21:18.763
[DEREK]So with Iron Fist, we had the PTSD.

01:21:18.783 --> 01:21:25.883
[DEREK]We had it treated really well where he sees the death of all of the monks from Koon Lin.

01:21:26.303 --> 01:21:28.363
[DEREK]That I thought was done really well in this show.

01:21:28.383 --> 01:21:32.803
[DEREK]They took it from Iron Fist, this idea, directly from Iron Fist and used it immediately.

01:21:33.283 --> 01:21:36.403
[DEREK]With Jessica Jones, we see her just being a genuine badass.

01:21:36.443 --> 01:21:38.103
[DEREK]We see the smashed door.

01:21:38.123 --> 01:21:40.963
[DEREK]We see the way she talks to other characters around her.

01:21:41.383 --> 01:21:44.083
[DEREK]Particularly Malcolm, there's still no friendship there.

01:21:44.103 --> 01:21:44.883
[DEREK]She still hates him.

01:21:44.903 --> 01:21:48.243
[DEREK]She still treats him really poorly, even though he's the only one helping her out.

01:21:48.723 --> 01:21:51.463
[DEREK]The way she talks to Trish, the way she acts around her.

01:21:51.783 --> 01:21:53.023
[DEREK]Nothing's changed for the character.

01:21:53.043 --> 01:21:54.663
[DEREK]It really feels like the character is brought in.

01:21:54.883 --> 01:21:57.083
[DEREK]For Mass, we get him doing lawyer work.

01:21:57.103 --> 01:21:58.863
[DEREK]We get him actually being a lawyer.

01:21:58.883 --> 01:22:02.283
[DEREK]He's supposed to be lawyer by day, vigilante by night.

01:22:02.443 --> 01:22:03.863
[DEREK]We didn't see much lawyering last time.

01:22:04.043 --> 01:22:06.623
[DEREK]We had him out here in season two.

01:22:06.643 --> 01:22:08.103
[DEREK]For Luke Cage, we see him getting coffee.

01:22:09.243 --> 01:22:12.383
[DEREK]It's the moment we were really introduced to him in Jessica Jones.

01:22:12.403 --> 01:22:16.103
[DEREK]It is the thing that we heard lots about throughout the season of Luke Cage.

01:22:16.523 --> 01:22:19.263
[DEREK]He's surrounded by music, which I thought was a really good touch as well.

01:22:19.563 --> 01:22:28.123
[DEREK]Yes, this felt like a huge, big Defenders blanket wrapping all around me going, here's your show, I'm going to give you a couple of little teases for what's going to come up next.

01:22:28.383 --> 01:22:36.163
[DEREK]Hit that play button and watch episode two, which is what I really wanted from a first episode of this eight-episode show that we've been waiting for two and a half years for.

01:22:36.663 --> 01:22:37.623
[DEREK]I'm delighted to be back.

01:22:37.643 --> 01:22:41.563
[DEREK]This is a proper, proper defend for me for a first episode of the show.

01:22:41.843 --> 01:22:44.703
[DEREK]That's it, that's our overall thoughts on the episode.

01:22:44.843 --> 01:22:51.643
[DEREK]We are watching a little bit ahead, so there is no feedback for this episode, obviously, because nobody's had the chance to send it in yet.

01:22:51.883 --> 01:22:55.103
[DEREK]But meanwhile, here's Jessica Jones' voicemail message.

01:22:55.623 --> 01:22:56.883
[DEREK]Alias investigations.

01:22:57.423 --> 01:22:59.583
[DEREK]We've got cases and shit, so leave a message.

01:23:01.003 --> 01:23:02.483
[CHRIS]Record your message at the tone.

01:23:02.723 --> 01:23:05.603
[CHRIS]Press any key or stop talking to end the recording.

01:23:07.103 --> 01:23:08.883
[DEREK]I just like that, I just like that.

01:23:09.923 --> 01:23:12.203
[DEREK]I like her saying that she's got some cases and shit.

01:23:12.603 --> 01:23:13.863
[DEREK]Leave a message, quite cool.

01:23:14.563 --> 01:23:15.843
[DEREK]I wish we had a voicemail message.

01:23:15.863 --> 01:23:21.803
[DEREK]If you want to send us a voicemail about any of your thoughts about the series of The Defenders, it's really easy.

01:23:21.983 --> 01:23:32.523
[DEREK]Watch the episodes, go to our website, defenderstvpodcast.com, press the send voicemail button, record 90 seconds of your thoughts about any of the episodes and press the button and send it in to us.

01:23:32.543 --> 01:23:40.203
[DEREK]Just mark it about what episode you're talking about or say it in the first couple of moments and we'll play that on the episode that refers to your comments.

01:23:40.583 --> 01:23:41.603
[CHRIS]Yeah, absolutely.

01:23:41.663 --> 01:23:52.623
[CHRIS]And of course, come on down and join us on our Facebook group at facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash Defenders TV podcast.

01:23:52.963 --> 01:24:04.483
[CHRIS]Come over here, share your discussions, share your thoughts, share your comments on each episode of The Defenders on Netflix out on 18th of August.

01:24:04.503 --> 01:24:23.623
[CHRIS]And of course, as we have done previously, we will put up a spoiler post in the group and you can just reply being free to talk about anything you want underneath in the reply part and comment part of that post.

01:24:23.683 --> 01:24:27.323
[DEREK]Yeah, really importantly, we don't want to spoil anybody in the group who's watching at a different speed.

01:24:27.343 --> 01:24:31.843
[DEREK]So we'll just have the spoiler posts for discussions about the episodes as we've seen them.

01:24:32.183 --> 01:24:34.063
[DEREK]As we put them up, you can comment with your spoilers.

01:24:34.083 --> 01:24:46.463
[DEREK]If you want to send a spoiler full of thoughts, other than a voicemail and you don't want to send us a voicemail, email us at feedback at defenderstvpodcast.com with the episode number or if you want to do your review of the entire series, if you've binge watched it all on August 18th.

01:24:46.783 --> 01:24:55.103
[DEREK]And for your rewatcher listening to our episodes, that's a good way to do it if you want to tell us your thoughts and we'll read them in the final episode of this Defenders coverage.

01:24:55.343 --> 01:24:55.623
[CHRIS]Yep.

01:24:55.823 --> 01:24:59.063
[CHRIS]And of course, we're on Twitter at Defenderscast.

01:24:59.083 --> 01:25:01.783
[CHRIS]So come on and follow us there.

01:25:02.023 --> 01:25:22.163
[CHRIS]And of course, as always, you can share the love by subscribing at defenderstvpodcast.com forward slash iTunes for those of you who listen through Apple podcasts or you can just search DefendersTVpodcast in the podcast catcher of your choice.

01:25:22.583 --> 01:25:22.843
[CHRIS]Yeah.

01:25:23.063 --> 01:25:28.543
[CHRIS]And I'm going to be the guy that says this now, but please don't forget to share this with your friends.

01:25:28.563 --> 01:25:35.823
[CHRIS]If you are talking to your friends about the show, don't forget, oh, hey, this is amazing podcast with three really cool Irish blokes.

01:25:35.983 --> 01:25:41.623
[CHRIS]Well, two really cool Irish blokes and an English guy talking about the Defenders.

01:25:41.643 --> 01:25:42.543
[CHRIS]You should listen to it.

01:25:42.783 --> 01:25:48.923
[CHRIS]So tell your mom, tell your auntie, tell your grandmother and your grand, grand, great uncle, whoever.

01:25:48.943 --> 01:25:49.843
[CHRIS]Tell your dog.

01:25:49.983 --> 01:25:50.983
[CHRIS]They want to listen to this.

01:25:51.303 --> 01:25:56.003
[CHRIS]And a really cool tax resident Irish guy from England.

01:25:58.283 --> 01:26:02.683
[CHRIS]I don't know about you, but I kind of want to head over and start watching episode two now.

01:26:02.763 --> 01:26:03.403
[DEREK]Absolutely.

01:26:03.423 --> 01:26:04.083
[DEREK]We're ready to go.

01:26:04.143 --> 01:26:10.863
[DEREK]Episode two, which means that we should be back later today as you're listening to this on the 18th of August with our second episode of season one.

01:26:11.243 --> 01:26:14.903
[DEREK]Then we'll kind of settle into our regular schedule of probably two episodes a week.

01:26:14.923 --> 01:26:25.503
[DEREK]We'll go back to a Monday and a Friday release of each episode as we go, giving you time to send in your thoughts and your feedback for the episodes as we go so we can have a proper conversation on the show, not just be our voices.

01:26:25.523 --> 01:26:27.183
[DEREK]We'd love to hear from you throughout the season.

01:26:27.323 --> 01:26:28.043
[DEREK]This is a big one.

01:26:28.063 --> 01:26:35.843
[DEREK]We've been waiting for it for two and a half years, so we want to hear as much from you guys watching it, our fellow Defenders, and your thoughts as we go as well.

01:26:36.363 --> 01:26:36.723
[CHRIS]Yes.

01:26:36.803 --> 01:26:39.603
[CHRIS]Thank you so much, fellow Defenders, for joining us.

01:26:40.223 --> 01:26:45.043
[CHRIS]It's been great speaking with you and, of course, we'll speak with you again next time.

01:26:45.123 --> 01:26:45.403
[CHRIS]Yeah.

01:26:45.643 --> 01:26:46.123
[CHRIS]Can't wait.

01:26:46.143 --> 01:26:47.663
[CHRIS]Thanks, guys, and speak to you soon.

01:26:47.843 --> 01:26:50.543
[CHRIS]Yeah, and I'm off to go and pick the fruit bowl off the ground.

01:26:51.463 --> 01:26:52.823
[DEREK]Hey, Chris, do you know what your problem is?

01:26:53.283 --> 01:26:54.323
[CHRIS]Since the start like that.

01:26:54.703 --> 01:26:55.083
[DEREK]Bye.

01:26:55.643 --> 01:26:56.003
[CHRIS]Bye.