[00:00:00] This is the Defenders Podcast on TV Podcast Industries and we're talking about the Season 3 Finale of What If, Episode 8, What If.

[00:00:09] The winds blow, the birds sing, the water flows, and our eldest brother, the sun, rises.

[00:00:22] I only wish she could be here with us. I miss her.

[00:00:28] Perhaps she is.

[00:00:31] Someone, somewhere, is always watching.

[00:00:35] And ever since her sacrifice, for the first time in all time, it feels like someone is watching over me.

[00:01:07] Welcome back, fellow Defenders and fellow Watchers.

[00:01:12] This is TV Podcast Industries and we are discussing the final episode of What If.

[00:01:18] This is Season 3, Episode 8, entitled What If.

[00:01:23] I am one of your hosts, John.

[00:01:25] I am your other host, Derek.

[00:01:27] For the finale of What If.

[00:01:30] I am no one.

[00:01:31] I am someone.

[00:01:32] Yes.

[00:01:33] It's better to be someone.

[00:01:34] No one, no one.

[00:01:35] And everyone, someone.

[00:01:36] John.

[00:01:37] Yes.

[00:01:39] Indeed.

[00:01:39] Yes.

[00:01:40] You were getting quite confused by all the no ones and some ones going around.

[00:01:44] You were like going, but the Watcher's saying it and Peggy's just said it to him.

[00:01:49] Yeah.

[00:01:50] I was like, no, it's different.

[00:01:51] It's slightly different.

[00:01:52] Slightly different.

[00:01:52] Only marginally different.

[00:01:54] Peggy said, but no one's no one.

[00:01:57] That's what you taught me, Watcher.

[00:01:58] And later, Watcher goes, but everyone's someone.

[00:02:00] That's what you taught me, Peggy.

[00:02:02] Hang on a second.

[00:02:03] You can't both give each other the same lesson.

[00:02:05] Can you?

[00:02:07] Well, no, that's true.

[00:02:08] But we are here to talk about the finale of What If season three and the finale of the series overall.

[00:02:14] If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, we will, of course, be moving on from What If now.

[00:02:18] If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, make sure you pop on over to our website at tvpodcastindustries.com

[00:02:23] to subscribe to any mysterious podcast player in the multiverse and get access to all the other episodes of all the other shows that we're doing.

[00:02:30] I think this is our 891st episode of TV Podcast Industries overall.

[00:02:34] I feel we're higher than that.

[00:02:36] We're not.

[00:02:36] We're 891 on TV Podcast Industries.

[00:02:39] But we've had loads of other podcasts.

[00:02:40] We had Gotham TV Podcasts as well.

[00:02:42] Oh, on TV Podcasts.

[00:02:44] Yes.

[00:02:44] Yes.

[00:02:44] I thought we'd done 1,000 at one point.

[00:02:47] We have probably done about 1,000 episodes or more at this stage.

[00:02:51] Yeah.

[00:02:52] Yeah.

[00:02:52] But I'm only counting.

[00:02:54] It feels like it.

[00:02:56] That's what happens when you've been a podcaster for 10 years.

[00:02:58] I know.

[00:03:01] But we'd love to have you subscribe to us over there and join us for any of the other shows we'll be covering when we get into 2025.

[00:03:06] So we should just say, as we start out this podcast, a very happy new year to you if you listen to us in 2025.

[00:03:12] Indeed.

[00:03:12] Happy new year, fellow defenders.

[00:03:15] Good to have you on board.

[00:03:16] And in the new year, we will have the new Daredevil.

[00:03:20] Yes, we will.

[00:03:21] Yes, we will.

[00:03:22] But with the same Charlie Cox in, squeezed into that suit.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] And Vincent D'Onofrio's back.

[00:03:28] Excellent stuff.

[00:03:29] And Eldon Henson's back.

[00:03:31] Fab.

[00:03:32] Yep.

[00:03:32] Most of the cast pretty much are all that.

[00:03:34] So it's going to be basically Daredevil season four.

[00:03:37] And we can go, foggy.

[00:03:39] Exactly.

[00:03:40] Exactly.

[00:03:41] But with that, let us get into our spoiler-filled discussion of episode eight of season three of What If.

[00:03:50] What If.

[00:03:51] Derek.

[00:03:52] Derek.

[00:03:53] What are some of the episode details here?

[00:03:55] Ditto?

[00:03:56] Is it ditto?

[00:03:56] It is ditto.

[00:03:57] But for the final time, I'm not going to not say it on the last episode.

[00:04:00] Maybe I should have given up in episode five and just said it was the same as the last one.

[00:04:03] Both the executive producers for the show are Matthew Chauncey, Brian Andrews, and Brad Winterbaum with Kevin Feige.

[00:04:09] Head writer for this series was Matthew Chauncey.

[00:04:11] The story for this episode was written by Brian Andrews, Matthew Chauncey, and Ryan Little.

[00:04:15] And the teleplay by Matthew Chauncey and Ryan Little.

[00:04:18] And the episode was directed by Brian Andrews.

[00:04:20] John, do you want to tell us what they gave us with the synopsis for the finale of What If season three?

[00:04:27] Sure.

[00:04:27] In a flashback, it's revealed that the Watcher was once a Watcher disciple named Uatu, who was recruited to become a full Watcher by the eminence.

[00:04:37] In the present, the Watcher is placed on trial for his repeated interferences, namely giving Strange Supreme the information he needed to recreate his own universe,

[00:04:46] and saving Riri Williams, Khoi Yung-Fan, Reed Richards, Nick Fury, and Madison King, as well as his actions regarding Captain Carter.

[00:04:57] But as they realize they face death, the two are rescued by Ultron, who sacrifices himself to buy them time to escape.

[00:05:04] Under attack, the Watcher grants his friends the powers of a Watcher, and Carter sacrifices herself to transport everyone to Strange Supreme's reborn universe,

[00:05:15] where Strange renders the other Watchers powerless.

[00:05:18] Embracing his existence and naming himself Uatu, he convinces the humbled eminence that there are lessons to be learned in every corner of the multiverse,

[00:05:27] and he and the Incarnate and the Executioner should join together to improve the lives of all they survey.

[00:05:36] As they mourn Captain Carter's death, the Watcher invites Khoi, Birdie, and Storm to rejoice in her life and ponder the question,

[00:05:44] What's next?

[00:05:47] They do, really, and they have a great outro for this episode that I was pausing constantly to see all the other possibilities it could be if we had a What If season 4, which we don't, unfortunately.

[00:05:59] Sorcerer Supreme Hulk, which looks cool.

[00:06:02] Very cool, very cool.

[00:06:04] Yeah, we saw the return of Ghost Rider in there as well.

[00:06:08] Yes, Ghost Horse Rider.

[00:06:09] Ghost Horse Rider, yes, that's quite cool.

[00:06:12] Loads and loads of them, it was really cool.

[00:06:14] There was Wolverine Thanos, I think?

[00:06:16] There was, yeah, yeah.

[00:06:17] As well?

[00:06:18] Absolutely, yeah.

[00:06:19] There was loads.

[00:06:20] There was loads, absolutely loads, yeah.

[00:06:21] I'm sure we'll be able to see a list as that's released the next couple of days.

[00:06:25] Just, I think that's the concept art that was used for that.

[00:06:29] Yeah, really good though, to see all that.

[00:06:31] Yeah, and I was pausing as I went through, going, I wonder what all these are, and there's one that had Deadpool on it,

[00:06:36] and I just couldn't catch what was behind Deadpool, and eventually I caught it right, and it's just Deadpool with lots and lots of weapons.

[00:06:41] I thought it was loads of characters behind him, and it was just Deadpool with lots and lots of weapons.

[00:06:46] So that is what is going to be next in the future.

[00:06:49] But will we get into our discussion about this episode itself, Jon?

[00:06:52] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:06:54] In a sense, a lot of our structure is a bit like that planet that was blown to smithereens when the Eminence and the Watcher literally went head to head.

[00:07:07] Yeah.

[00:07:07] I was kind of thinking it's Captain Carter's shield is our structure for this episode,

[00:07:11] because I think it got broken in almost every episode that Captain Carter appeared,

[00:07:15] and it gets broken a couple of times in this episode as well.

[00:07:19] So, yes, it is completely broken.

[00:07:21] We normally start out with what if we'd seen it before, and what cinematic universe movies have we seen this before?

[00:07:26] I think we're going to, in some way, sort of tentatively, like holding on by a thread to our structure.

[00:07:35] We'll try.

[00:07:36] You know, what if we've seen this before?

[00:07:39] And the answer to that question really is that, well, we haven't.

[00:07:43] I mean, this is now a sequential story happening, and you can view both episode seven and eight ultimately as one episode here.

[00:07:53] Yeah, exactly.

[00:07:54] But what I would say is that, you know, the cosmic epic scale of this, you know,

[00:08:00] is very reminiscent of being introduced to that cosmic scale through the Eternals with the Celestials

[00:08:09] and their galaxy and universe building through the emergence, like we've seen through some of the episodes this season.

[00:08:19] But also with Thor, Love and Thunder, with, you know, the hugely powerful and infinite being of destiny being introduced there.

[00:08:31] And here we have the Watchers, ultimately massively powerful, looking over things at a multiversal cosmic scale of the known reality in that sense.

[00:08:46] Yes.

[00:08:47] And so it's that scale, really, I think.

[00:08:50] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:08:50] And it is interesting.

[00:08:51] There's a moment where the Eminence trying to, again, get the Watcher to atone for what they call his sins.

[00:08:59] He says, you've let destiny down.

[00:09:01] And I was wondering, is that destiny with a capital D or just lowercase destiny?

[00:09:05] Do they actually work for destiny?

[00:09:07] Is that what the Watchers do in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, that they work for destiny?

[00:09:11] I don't think so, but it's hard to tell when it's on such a cosmic scale as to whether all these cosmic beings and entities interact with each other or not.

[00:09:18] For sure.

[00:09:19] And I mean, I think what's actually really quite nice here is I quite like the start where you have the Eminence effectively saying, you know, to the Watcher that you have now become a disciple of the Order of the Watchers.

[00:09:44] Mm-hmm.

[00:10:05] Confused Weekly when they were trying to explain what no one is to Arya Stark, to have to leave everything behind.

[00:10:11] Your name doesn't exist.

[00:10:12] Your personality doesn't exist.

[00:10:14] Exactly.

[00:10:14] So you can then embrace this new situation.

[00:10:16] So in all honesty, Game of Thrones probably helped me understand what they were saying to the last year.

[00:10:22] Absolutely.

[00:10:23] Yeah.

[00:10:23] And, you know, it's just kind of sets out the stall, you know, with the Eminence saying, you know, you make no judgments.

[00:10:29] It's just observations.

[00:10:31] Mm-hmm.

[00:10:32] I like that in this sort of eons earlier, you see, in a sense, a bit of the curiosity of Uatu and the Watcher.

[00:10:41] He says, but what's the point?

[00:10:42] Yes.

[00:10:43] You know?

[00:10:43] And I like the fact that the Eminence's response to him is that you will come to your own conclusions as you watch.

[00:10:52] Yep.

[00:10:52] And is ultimately what the Watcher has come to and why he's done the things he's done.

[00:10:59] Exactly.

[00:10:59] And he reflects that right back at the Eminence after sort of the huge epic battle that they all have.

[00:11:10] Yeah.

[00:11:10] So I kind of like that a lot.

[00:11:12] I also do like the transition where he says, what if I fail you?

[00:11:18] And he says, you won't.

[00:11:20] And then the Eminence is there and you have failed me.

[00:11:23] I will never fail you.

[00:11:25] You have failed me.

[00:11:25] Yeah.

[00:11:26] Really good.

[00:11:26] Really like that as well.

[00:11:28] Yeah.

[00:11:29] I just wish that concept had just been massaged a little better and worked a little better into the episode.

[00:11:36] That concept that they're saying to the brand new Watcher that you go out there and you will learn over time why it is you watch and don't interfere.

[00:11:45] I wish they'd massage that a little better into the episode because I felt like that had gotten lost by the time we get to the end of the episode.

[00:11:52] It was almost like, look, everybody's just a bit tired now.

[00:11:54] We've been punching each other in the face for so long.

[00:11:56] Sit down there and I'll tell you maybe there's another way to do things.

[00:12:00] I kind of wish we'd have an acceptance from the Eminence to say, oh, actually, that's a different perspective and a different way of looking at what we've been doing for these eons.

[00:12:09] Maybe it's a better way to look at it.

[00:12:10] There didn't seem to be any of that.

[00:12:12] It just kind of seemed like you're here with no powers.

[00:12:14] You might as well just listen to Asi now.

[00:12:16] Yeah.

[00:12:16] I mean, it was a massive battle.

[00:12:18] And in the end, it was like all I kept hearing was bang, bang.

[00:12:22] And the words were kind of being lost.

[00:12:24] Yeah.

[00:12:26] And I do think that, you know, all of a sudden, despite all of this sort of fighting, effectively, the Eminence, the Incarnate and the Executioner looking to kill all these people.

[00:12:40] And then as soon as they have new powers, it's kind of like, let there be peace.

[00:12:48] Okay.

[00:12:49] Now I listen to you.

[00:12:49] Now I listen to you.

[00:12:50] And I'm like, okay.

[00:12:52] Like, it didn't feel quite like the revelation.

[00:12:54] Like you say, if it had just been put in it that different way, maybe that would have given it.

[00:12:59] But I mean, I think we understood what was happening here.

[00:13:03] Yeah.

[00:13:03] Again, because of it being 30 minutes, it just was like punch, punch, punch, punch, punch.

[00:13:10] Yeah.

[00:13:11] And, you know, I do accept now everything you've said now that I can't sort of use my cosmic powers.

[00:13:17] Yeah.

[00:13:18] Yeah.

[00:13:18] But that can be the case in a lot of different shows.

[00:13:23] Absolutely.

[00:13:23] You know, absolutely.

[00:13:24] Again, I like the concept of it.

[00:13:26] I liked the idea that they were trying to get across.

[00:13:28] And I think it's a good wrap up to the story of The Watcher getting to this point.

[00:13:32] It's interesting.

[00:13:33] A couple episodes ago.

[00:13:34] And again, we recorded all of our episodes before we watched the next episode.

[00:13:38] But it's interesting.

[00:13:39] A couple of episodes I was going.

[00:13:40] He's never named himself as Uatu in this show.

[00:13:43] He's a different watcher.

[00:13:44] He hasn't got that name.

[00:13:45] He's different to the one that's in the comic books.

[00:13:46] That one's always been named Uatu.

[00:13:48] And here at the end of the season, that was the big revelation that he is actually Uatu.

[00:13:52] That is his name.

[00:13:53] He takes his name.

[00:13:54] He gives it to himself.

[00:13:55] And the rest of the team are all calling it a really powerful name.

[00:13:58] So it wasn't his name beforehand.

[00:14:00] I don't think he'd ever mentioned it in the show before.

[00:14:02] But here we have him taking a name and becoming a being in this multiverse.

[00:14:07] It had never been mentioned in the show.

[00:14:10] Yeah.

[00:14:10] But he was Uatu.

[00:14:12] Exactly.

[00:14:12] Yeah.

[00:14:12] Exactly.

[00:14:13] Yeah.

[00:14:13] So it's interesting.

[00:14:14] So I was wrong about that.

[00:14:15] But he hadn't mentioned it in the show.

[00:14:16] That's all.

[00:14:17] That's all.

[00:14:17] Yeah.

[00:14:18] But I think on to our second point, what if there was a small change?

[00:14:23] Because, again, and this is more about us talking through the episode, I think, really, for this one.

[00:14:29] But the small change here is that the four mortals or heroes in Peggy Carter, Cahori, Storm, and Birdie all take the Watcher oath.

[00:14:43] Yes.

[00:14:43] And as they're being pulverized by the combined power of the Emmons.

[00:14:49] I did like that.

[00:14:50] I thought, maybe it's just me, but I felt there was something quite comedic in them kind of straining against the wall whilst they're being blasted by the three other Watchers.

[00:15:01] Absolutely.

[00:15:01] And trying to recount what Uatu was saying to them in order so that they take the oath and become a Watcher.

[00:15:13] And eventually he's just like, just say you accept and then we'll move on.

[00:15:16] Yeah.

[00:15:17] Yeah.

[00:15:17] Very good.

[00:15:18] I thought that was really good.

[00:15:19] But ultimately they become sort of white-eyed wonders, really.

[00:15:25] And I like them all emerging through the dust of the pulverized sort of massive of rock.

[00:15:33] Yeah.

[00:15:34] And I really love their brand new uniforms that they have because we have Captain Carter with the gold and white now.

[00:15:40] Yeah.

[00:15:41] Gold, white, and blue instead of the traditional red, white, and blue that she has as Captain Britain or Captain Carter.

[00:15:46] And that's kind of cool.

[00:15:48] And her brand new shield as well is awesome.

[00:15:50] And it's very hard to talk about all the rest of the episode, though, because in the middle there, that middle patch of about 10, 15 minutes, which does feel like there's a lot of punching.

[00:15:59] But there were some really cool moments in it.

[00:16:01] I loved when Captain Carter's shield gets split in half and she uses each side of that as a weapon in itself and then joins back together to fight against the eminence or against one of the other Watchers.

[00:16:13] I loved all the Watchers just kind of going into battle mode with all their weapons.

[00:16:21] One has a blade, one has a mace.

[00:16:23] The other, the eminence has kind of like the almost...

[00:16:28] Power gloves.

[00:16:29] Almost like, yeah, power gloves.

[00:16:31] Almost like Thanos gloves.

[00:16:32] Exactly, yeah.

[00:16:33] And...

[00:16:34] I was wondering why Iwatu didn't put on some kind of weapon for himself.

[00:16:37] But he had armor, so they all went sort of got body armor as well.

[00:16:40] But yeah, so Iwatu didn't have any kind of weapon.

[00:16:43] Although in fairness in animation, it did help him stand out when he was fighting with the others.

[00:16:48] There was another, I call them almost, I read, when Captain Carter grabbed the head of one of the Watchers and was just like through his mouth and was smashing his face into the ground on either side of herself like she was a Hulk, which is quite cool.

[00:17:01] Absolutely.

[00:17:02] I loved Kahori's stuff as well, where she takes one of them across the rings of the planet that they're fighting on.

[00:17:09] So across all the rock that is sort of circling this planet.

[00:17:14] Yeah.

[00:17:14] And I like the one where she sends the Watcher's kind of power beam back into him and he holds it in his mouth as though he's about to fire it back.

[00:17:23] And she vanishes and becomes as big as he does behind him and knocks him out kind of thing.

[00:17:31] Yeah, it was almost like as they watched the Watchers, as they observed the Watchers, let's say, using their powers, they went, well, we have the same powers as them, so we can now use the same thing.

[00:17:43] It's like that's what Kahori was learning.

[00:17:45] Yeah, but this is absolutely a huge cosmic battle between all the Watchers and then the powered up Kahori, Birdie, Peggy and Storm.

[00:17:59] So it's huge.

[00:18:01] And the other thing as well with that then, I love that Storm says, you know, I controlled nature.

[00:18:10] Now I am nature.

[00:18:12] I can, I'm, you know, this is mother nature here as she sort of does this cosmic tornado that pulls in the incarnate and the executioner and brings them together.

[00:18:26] And they eventually have the three of them pinned down and they're all firing their Watcher powers onto them.

[00:18:35] And I like the struggle of the eminence as well, where Peggy's telling the three of them to yield and surrender effectively.

[00:18:45] Yeah.

[00:18:45] And he's like, never, different forms of straining never as they're being pinned down.

[00:18:51] Yeah.

[00:18:52] But Uatu kind of stands in here to say, no, wait, because actually this, the use of violence, I guess, is very rare for the Watchers.

[00:19:06] And it's like, I don't want, you know, he doesn't want it to go down like that, but it gives them enough breathing room.

[00:19:13] And I do like the fact that he says, you know, you taught me well.

[00:19:21] And he just goes, I didn't teach you everything.

[00:19:24] Can they kind of shoot up and, you know, three become one as they spin.

[00:19:30] And this, this threat that they've become is not only to kill the four of them and Uatu, but that they will disintegrate and wipe out and erase every version of them in each of the universes of the multiverse and what they did.

[00:19:50] Every person they've interacted with.

[00:19:52] So there will be no memory of them.

[00:19:53] This is extinction at a multiverse level.

[00:19:58] Yeah.

[00:19:58] And again, it's another, like, I loved how it was portrayed with the, almost like the, the, the watcher winds coming down from this, these spinning watchers.

[00:20:11] And you kind of see the different versions of them being knocked out of them.

[00:20:18] Yeah.

[00:20:18] Yeah.

[00:20:18] It was like you saw Cahori in a Captain America outfit, which was great.

[00:20:26] Absolutely.

[00:20:26] You see her as an X-Men as well.

[00:20:28] You see Birdie looking much more like Herod the Duck's daughter than, than a mix of Herod and Darcy, which I thought was really interesting.

[00:20:35] Loads of different versions of Captain Carter.

[00:20:37] You see her as a saber tooth.

[00:20:39] You see her in loads of different ways.

[00:20:40] Definitely go back, pause each of those are very cool.

[00:20:50] Yeah.

[00:20:51] The ways you see Peggy's hand going.

[00:20:53] And again, calling back to the previous episode about losing her friends.

[00:21:00] Again, that's the resolve within her.

[00:21:03] Yeah.

[00:21:03] Is that, you know, she's in a way not always been, it's not the only defining aspect of Peggy Carter, but it is the lost love with, with Captain America, at least in the MCU.

[00:21:20] And you, you've had that sort of repeated as well through the multiverse where she never is able to have that relationship with Steve Rogers.

[00:21:32] And, and it's just harks back to the conversation with Storm about losing what she's lost.

[00:21:40] Exactly.

[00:21:41] And not losing anyone anymore.

[00:21:43] Yeah.

[00:21:44] And, and is willing to pay that ultimate sacrifice as she goes within herself to use the watcher power to reverse that and destroy the, the three spinning watchers.

[00:22:01] Or at least to move them into the Stephen Strange universe.

[00:22:07] I love the fact that you see all the, all the versions of them that have been knocked out of them sort of returning to them very quickly.

[00:22:14] Yeah.

[00:22:14] And they ultimately go into the Stephen Strange universe and that's where they were trying to get to before the big battle.

[00:22:22] Yeah.

[00:22:22] But ultimately Ultron wasn't able to hold them off for as long.

[00:22:26] And I kind of quite liked, I know we're moving back a bit here, but I liked how the eminents just walked through the power blast of Ultron.

[00:22:34] And basically took his head off.

[00:22:37] And plucked his head off.

[00:22:38] Exactly.

[00:22:38] Killed him.

[00:22:39] Yeah.

[00:22:39] So.

[00:22:40] Almost the way the Thanos pulled the infinity stone from, from vision.

[00:22:44] Exactly.

[00:22:45] But the plan was to get to, and the Stephen Strange universe where he had ultimate absolute control over what happened there because it was him.

[00:22:56] Yeah.

[00:22:57] His essence is in every atom in this universe because he, he recreated it from the universe that he lost.

[00:23:03] Yeah.

[00:23:03] Like I kind of love that idea.

[00:23:04] And because he was such a central character in season one and season two, it's nice to end here in the universe of, of Stephen Strange.

[00:23:12] And of course, I love that they had the touch of having his theme tune playing as we see the stars light up in the shape of, of Stephen Strange.

[00:23:20] Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:21] I thought that was a lovely little touch.

[00:23:22] Yeah.

[00:23:22] Good.

[00:23:23] It was really cool.

[00:23:24] Yeah.

[00:23:24] Really enjoyed that.

[00:23:25] Yeah.

[00:23:25] But I think we can go into our third and final point.

[00:23:29] What if the universe was changed forever?

[00:23:31] Yeah.

[00:23:31] And because what would be so different?

[00:23:34] Well, here we have, you know, the watchers, the eminents, the incarnate, the executioner, as well as Uatu, the watcher, that they no longer have their powers.

[00:23:47] Yeah.

[00:23:47] To continue this battle.

[00:23:49] And you see the eminents wanting to.

[00:23:52] Yeah.

[00:23:55] But can't and doesn't.

[00:23:57] And again, I think to that point where he then decides to listen to Uatu and what he has learned in that callback to the when he started being a watcher, you know, after all those eons of watching.

[00:24:14] Yeah.

[00:24:15] And that, you know, he says to the eminents, everyone is someone and that there are lessons in every corner of the multiverse.

[00:24:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:55] Yeah.

[00:24:56] And what is there and what it means to be there.

[00:24:59] Yeah.

[00:24:59] And I thought that was kind of quite nice.

[00:25:01] I like how it just took back to the start and again mirrored with the handshake of reconciliation at the end.

[00:25:10] Yeah, exactly.

[00:25:11] Exactly.

[00:25:12] They've finally gotten through this idea that the watchers can be involved and the watchers can observe and also intervene when things, when you need to intervene.

[00:25:21] One of the things I did love about the opening of the episode, actually, which we which we didn't mention is just when when they're putting the charges forth for for Uatu and the eminents are saying to him, you saved Re Re Williams.

[00:25:35] And the watcher goes, but that was just one instance in eons of watching.

[00:25:39] And then they goes, how about quite a quite young fan, Reed Richards, Nick Fury, Madison King.

[00:25:44] And of course, the biggest one, Captain Carter.

[00:25:47] You know, you've kept all of them around and you kept interfering and saving all of those people.

[00:25:51] I just love that that was the watcher kind of going, well, actually, maybe I have interviewed more than I thought I did.

[00:25:58] I loved that Madison was in there.

[00:26:00] Was mentioned, absolutely.

[00:26:02] Yes, Madison King from She-Hulk, of course.

[00:26:05] And the eminence is like with two N's and a Y, you know.

[00:26:09] But not what you think.

[00:26:10] Yeah, exactly.

[00:26:12] Yeah, that was that was kind of cool to have that.

[00:26:14] But another big one, of course, is Reed Richards, you know.

[00:26:16] We didn't see Reed Richards in the show at all in any of the three seasons of What If?

[00:26:22] But here he is mentioned another character coming into the MCU next year.

[00:26:27] You do wonder because of how long it takes to do these animated shows and the fact that they're trying to take inspiration from the MCU movies and TV shows that have been released.

[00:26:37] Are there characters and are there plot lines?

[00:26:39] Are there even just moments from episodes that they've had to edit out or cut out as these release dates have changed for the movies?

[00:26:46] Was there an episode that had Reed Richards featured in it because they knew Fantastic Four was coming out in a few years time when they originally wrote the episode?

[00:26:54] And now that Fantastic Four hasn't come out, they had to pull that episode or pull that moment.

[00:26:59] You know, you just wonder.

[00:27:00] I think it's more that because of the way Madison has been handled.

[00:27:04] I think it's more that they've got their stories that they're going to tell, but they can add in another name.

[00:27:12] Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:13] It's name dropping effectively.

[00:27:15] Yeah, of course.

[00:27:15] And to animate that, I think changing the animation would become a much bigger and a more costly process than saying, you know, if we just extend this scene in the animation.

[00:27:29] I'm guessing, but I don't know.

[00:27:31] I just feel because Reed Richards is known as one of the biggest founders of the modern Marvel Comics universe, it's just such a big name drop to have his name met in there.

[00:27:41] Yeah, but the other thing that's obviously massively changed about this universe.

[00:27:46] Captain Carter has been a character that has been with the show since the first ever episode, very connected to the Watcher.

[00:27:53] And this sacrifice that she makes at the end of this final episode in the finale puts the end to her story, really.

[00:28:02] Yeah.

[00:28:02] You know, this is the same Captain Carter that we've seen since the beginning of the show traveling through the multiverse with the help of the Watcher to save different things, setting up the team to go around through the multiverse and continuing that mission that she was on.

[00:28:15] And here at the end, I think it was really interesting when you hear the Watcher say, in the past, I've watched on.

[00:28:21] But now, ever since Peggy sacrificed herself, I can feel her watching on.

[00:28:25] So she's almost now become a different type of Watcher watching on.

[00:28:28] Yeah.

[00:28:29] He says, like, for the first time, I feel as though I'm being observed and watched.

[00:28:33] Because there is the talk of, well, is there another plane?

[00:28:36] Yes.

[00:28:36] I was going to talk about that.

[00:28:38] Yeah.

[00:28:38] Yeah.

[00:28:45] Over everything that goes on throughout all of the multiverses, all the stories that are told in the comic books, that's an established idea in an established concept.

[00:28:55] They've always found it really difficult to talk about the afterlife in comic books.

[00:29:00] Because, well, firstly, in comic books, if someone dies, they come back pretty often in comic books.

[00:29:05] But because they've also brought in characters from every single religion have appeared in comic books as characters.

[00:29:13] Just look at all the Asgardians and the Greek gods that are in there as characters.

[00:29:17] So pondering the question of what comes after, what is the afterlife for them, I love that it is left up and open for interpretation.

[00:29:27] Because they definitely don't want to stamp that one and say, this is what the belief is of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[00:29:35] And so they haven't seen that.

[00:29:36] They can only look over the multiverse as it stands.

[00:29:40] They also do as well because they have Mephisto, which is effectively the dev.

[00:29:44] Yeah.

[00:29:44] But again, they have Thor.

[00:29:45] Yeah, exactly.

[00:29:47] There's different versions of every deity in the Marvel Universe because they take creative license with every story that's been out there so that they can create comics for 70 years.

[00:29:57] So they don't put a stamp on it.

[00:29:58] Even though they did have Captain America saying there's only one god up there.

[00:30:03] Well, yeah.

[00:30:03] That's his belief.

[00:30:04] But everybody had their own beliefs in the Marvel Universe.

[00:30:07] So they don't have Uatu saying a definitive answer of what happens after we die.

[00:30:12] Exactly.

[00:30:12] I like that.

[00:30:13] Yeah.

[00:30:14] Excellent stuff.

[00:30:15] Derek, any notes from this episode?

[00:30:18] Any final notes?

[00:30:19] The only note for me that I'd written down was how interesting those final animations were at the end of the final concept art of all of those characters.

[00:30:29] We could see if what if became a continuing show that went on for multiple seasons where it started to get stranger and stranger as it went into even more variation.

[00:30:38] You know, this season, as we, I think, in our scoring, and I know we haven't scored this episode, but I think in our scoring, the highest rated episode that we had was 1872, the Shang-Chi episode, which is something that stands completely apart from everything else.

[00:30:51] It doesn't take a jumping off point from any other story.

[00:30:53] So if they'd been allowed to do more of that in future seasons of what if, that would have been so interesting.

[00:30:59] And it felt like those concept art designs at the end of the episode felt like something that isn't massively part of the universe.

[00:31:05] There were characters in there that we haven't seen at all in the What If series or in the MCU at all yet.

[00:31:12] So that was just my note I had it written down, but we've talked about a lot of those that we saw in there.

[00:31:17] Excellent stuff.

[00:31:18] Yeah, I've got no notes.

[00:31:19] So, Derek, do you defend episode eight, What If?

[00:31:24] I defend this as a finale for the show for What If.

[00:31:26] I kind of feel like the animators got their chance to do a really great animated final episode.

[00:31:32] You know, I'd say they had a lot of fun designing the battles that were there between the characters.

[00:31:37] Definitely, yeah.

[00:31:37] They looked amazing.

[00:31:38] It looked like the best looking episode so far.

[00:31:41] I just feel like a little bit on the writing should have been massaged a little bit more about the Watcher learning what the true purpose is and encouraging the rest of the order of Watchers that this is actually the way we should regard the galaxy,

[00:31:54] regard the multiverse, is by protecting and helping people, not just watching over and watching their suffering and pain.

[00:32:01] I felt like that should have come across a little bit better, not just, oh, I don't have any powers.

[00:32:06] I can't fight you.

[00:32:08] So now I'll listen to what your argument is.

[00:32:10] I thought that was a little odd as an ending for the episode, but it is the ending of the episode.

[00:32:14] It is the ending of the series.

[00:32:15] It is the moment that Uatu does convince them all that this is the way we should be going in the future.

[00:32:22] Yeah, I mean, it almost feels like, you know, these two final episodes to me are one.

[00:32:29] I think they could have just drawn a bit more of those types of conversations and spread them across the two, you know, and it culminating here.

[00:32:41] Yeah.

[00:32:42] Rather than it kind of all being focused in this final one.

[00:32:45] Yeah.

[00:32:45] And I'll be honest, it could have been a 40 minute episode and cut out a lot of that fighting in the middle of the episode.

[00:32:50] But again, I do think that gave the animators who worked so hard in the show for three years, that gave them an opportunity to use their animation muscles to do something really cool looking.

[00:32:59] And it was.

[00:33:00] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:33:00] But equally for me, I prefer that than, you know, kind of the previous episodes with three ways to get to the observational plane, you know, just kind of like, no, but that could have just happened quicker or something.

[00:33:15] Do you know?

[00:33:16] But as I say, I think given that ultimately you've got over an hour worth of time here.

[00:33:22] Yeah.

[00:33:23] You could have peppered in more of that conversation between the watcher and the eminence and the others with Peggy as a host, you know, in episode seven and pulling into episode eight.

[00:33:38] So it felt like there'd be more consideration of this because as you say, it was and it did feel like this.

[00:33:47] Oh, well, we're kind of mortal or we're depowered.

[00:33:50] Yeah.

[00:33:51] And I was just thinking, well, if you're such an acolyte for this, why don't you just do normal fisticuffs?

[00:33:59] Do you know what I mean?

[00:34:00] Like, you could have punched him.

[00:34:03] Well, absolutely.

[00:34:03] You didn't have to use like power.

[00:34:05] You could have just punched him or choked him.

[00:34:07] Yeah.

[00:34:07] Or use one of the rocks on his head.

[00:34:10] I mean, there's a way to like destroy his heretical sort of views on life.

[00:34:17] Yes.

[00:34:18] Yeah.

[00:34:18] But it just, it seemed a little odd when it got to fighting and they just kept fighting and fighting and fighting until the powers were gone.

[00:34:24] They just didn't listen at all.

[00:34:26] Like I know they're called the watchers, not the listeners, of course.

[00:34:29] So maybe that's what the underlying joke of it all is.

[00:34:32] No, no.

[00:34:32] We just look on.

[00:34:33] We don't ever listen to what anybody has to say.

[00:34:36] Maybe that's it.

[00:34:37] But I did like it though overall for those reasons that because the animation was particularly epic in the episode, I thought that was cool.

[00:34:44] But it's not just visuals sometimes.

[00:34:47] When you're closing out a show, I'd like to have a little bit more of that.

[00:34:51] So it's high up.

[00:34:52] You know, it's higher than some of the other episodes this season, certainly.

[00:34:55] But I definitely would defend it as the finale of the season.

[00:34:59] How about yourself, John?

[00:35:00] Do you defend the finale of What If?

[00:35:02] Yeah, I do defend this episode of What If?

[00:35:05] I would give this three and a half cosmic sacrifices out of five.

[00:35:09] I think, you know, maybe pushing into four roughly with both episodes.

[00:35:16] I like the structure of the opening of it, seeing the eminence and the watcher, you know, as he starts his journey as a watcher and being sort of inducted into the order of the watchers.

[00:35:29] And it finishing on the watcher effectively, you know, calling out what the eminence had said to him to do when questioning the point of just observing and not interfering.

[00:35:42] I thought that was really nice.

[00:35:44] I thought the battle scenes were just epic.

[00:35:47] They were great.

[00:35:47] And I really like the kind of circle the dots look of their power.

[00:35:54] I think it's a real nice touch.

[00:35:56] It's really distinctive.

[00:35:57] It's like Jack Kirby's artwork.

[00:36:00] Yeah, it's really good.

[00:36:01] And, you know, I thought all that was great.

[00:36:06] As I say, I think it could just with these two last episodes, I think it could have possibly just the arc of it considered more integrated over those two episodes.

[00:36:20] So, yeah, three and a half cosmic sacrifices out of five.

[00:36:24] Maybe pushing into four.

[00:36:26] Yeah, very good.

[00:36:26] Very good.

[00:36:27] Thanks so much for joining us for our podcast about what if we got some multiversal messages from our fellow defenders.

[00:36:34] With their thoughts on the final episode as well.

[00:36:38] Absolutely.

[00:36:38] First up, an email from Coffee and Vodka who says,

[00:36:41] Greetings, fellow Final Frontier defenders.

[00:36:45] Didn't have to dig too far down to mine irony out of this one with a watcher slugger palooza,

[00:36:51] followed by a Hail Mary sacrifice and student to master teachable moment.

[00:36:56] This show end up was as sparse as it was pure greased linearity.

[00:37:00] The beef jerky version of a meaty episode.

[00:37:03] Probably good, but went down too fast to tell.

[00:37:07] At least the series was firmly capped by Captain Carter.

[00:37:11] I'll take what I can get.

[00:37:13] Four-ish recycled shields, grinding oaths, and watchers in a strange land out of five.

[00:37:20] Peace and take care.

[00:37:21] Coffee and vodka.

[00:37:22] Thanks so much, Coffee and vodka.

[00:37:24] Yeah, I mean, as I say, I think you can view it as maybe a slugger palooza too far.

[00:37:29] Yeah.

[00:37:30] And there could have been a bit more meat on that beefy meal.

[00:37:40] But interestingly, as you say, the linearity of it, given what we're been discussing since, you know.

[00:37:50] Yeah.

[00:37:50] But I guess it's more about space than time.

[00:37:53] It is.

[00:37:53] It is.

[00:37:54] But I can get that.

[00:37:55] But I get what you're saying, to be honest.

[00:37:59] And again, as I say, maybe a little interesting that a few of the other sort of team-ups that we'd seen this season weren't around.

[00:38:10] But we kind of mentioned that in the last episode as well.

[00:38:13] Yeah.

[00:38:13] Yeah.

[00:38:13] But wouldn't it be cool if we had something like, as a member of the team, we had America Chavez in there.

[00:38:18] And as they battle with the Watchers, they go through loads of other multiverses that we haven't seen or universes that we haven't seen in the multiverse.

[00:38:25] Like in Doctor Strange.

[00:38:26] You do feel America Chavez would have been ideal for this story.

[00:38:30] And it's interesting that she hasn't been used.

[00:38:34] Yeah.

[00:38:34] Yeah.

[00:38:35] I think, again, that's partly to do with when she appeared in Multiverse of Madness.

[00:38:39] That's only a couple of years ago now at this stage.

[00:38:41] So potentially the plan had already been in place for all these characters in What If?

[00:38:46] Yeah.

[00:38:47] Before the movie was released.

[00:38:48] Good stuff.

[00:38:49] Thanks, Coffee and Vodka.

[00:38:50] Thanks, Coffee and Vodka.

[00:38:51] Over on Facebook, more multiversal messages.

[00:38:54] First up, Heather Wallace.

[00:38:55] It says,

[00:38:56] Three seasons ago, What If? started with Peggy becoming a hero and now it ends with her becoming so much more.

[00:39:01] I've enjoyed all three seasons so much.

[00:39:03] Peggy was always at the heart for me.

[00:39:05] And this was a fitting tribute.

[00:39:07] I'd still really, really like to see how Peggy, Cahotie, Storm and Birdie the Duck came together.

[00:39:12] Absolutely.

[00:39:13] But I guess I can just imagine how it came to be.

[00:39:15] All the What If? scenarios possible.

[00:39:17] And on a less reflective note, I loved that Madison got name checked.

[00:39:21] How do I get to the multiverse with Madison and Wongers drinking bottomless G&Ts?

[00:39:25] Excellent stuff, Heather.

[00:39:27] Totally agree.

[00:39:28] I really like the fact that Madison got name checked as well.

[00:39:32] I really want to see Madison again with Wong.

[00:39:37] I'm hoping that the next phase of the MCU will provide for that.

[00:39:42] Yeah.

[00:39:42] For sure.

[00:39:43] I'd love to see She-Hulk back.

[00:39:44] Yeah.

[00:39:45] I'd love to see Wong and I'd love to see Madison back.

[00:39:46] Definitely.

[00:39:47] Definitely.

[00:39:48] And yeah, totally agree.

[00:39:49] I'd love to see how this team came together.

[00:39:52] Yeah.

[00:39:52] It really would be cool.

[00:39:53] Yeah.

[00:39:53] Yeah.

[00:39:54] I feel like that would be great if the Christmas episode had opened with Darcy in hospital going,

[00:40:00] oh, wow, I've got this egg now.

[00:40:02] And then it just had cut to a grown-up birdie and a different episode had taken place.

[00:40:06] That might have been the way to do it.

[00:40:07] Yeah.

[00:40:08] Well, for me anyway.

[00:40:10] Excellent.

[00:40:11] Thanks, Heather.

[00:40:11] Thanks, Heather.

[00:40:12] Also on Facebook, Philippe says, I really enjoyed the season except for the first episode.

[00:40:18] Not because the premise was flawed, but I didn't like its execution.

[00:40:22] Overall, it was a fantastic season of a great show.

[00:40:25] I loved how they took the bigger risks as the seasons progressed and created more intriguing

[00:40:30] worlds for us to explore.

[00:40:32] As Heather mentioned, I would have loved to see more about how the final team came together,

[00:40:37] how Storm became Storm and Birdie's growth.

[00:40:42] But that didn't negatively impact my overall experience.

[00:40:45] Sad to see it end, but grateful for everything we got to experience.

[00:40:50] Excellent, Philippe.

[00:40:51] Yeah, totally agree.

[00:40:52] I am so glad that What If exists.

[00:40:55] Me too.

[00:40:56] Because What If it didn't?

[00:40:57] Well, exactly.

[00:40:58] Exactly.

[00:40:59] Yeah.

[00:41:00] Ponder the question, what if we didn't have the show?

[00:41:02] No, I've really enjoyed What If overall.

[00:41:03] I think it's been a really interesting experiment for Marvel Animation as well.

[00:41:06] Something very different from what we've seen from them in the past.

[00:41:09] There's some very adult episodes in there.

[00:41:11] There are episodes just that dealt with ideas that they haven't been able to put on screen

[00:41:16] in the MCU and probably will never be able to put on screen in the MCU.

[00:41:19] So I like that they've been given the latitude to do that with the animated show here with

[00:41:23] What If.

[00:41:24] Hopefully we get something like it in the future.

[00:41:26] What the?

[00:41:27] Or what next, maybe?

[00:41:29] Absolutely.

[00:41:30] Thanks, Philippe.

[00:41:31] Great stuff.

[00:41:32] Thanks, Philippe.

[00:41:33] We also got a message in from Paul Tien-Chi Lee who says,

[00:41:36] This episode confused me.

[00:41:37] I don't remember if breakdowns of previous seasons explained anything and I've never read

[00:41:40] any comics with the Watcher or this Watcher.

[00:41:43] So my experience with the Watchers outside of the What If show is in the end credits sequence

[00:41:48] from, I actually forgot which movie it was, where Stan Lee is explaining how he's been

[00:41:52] part of every MCU movie to a group of Watchers.

[00:41:54] This means that all the Watcher lore in the opening flashback is completely new to me

[00:41:58] and I have questions.

[00:41:59] I also agree with Heather Wallace and Philippe that having the Peggy, Storm, Chiori, Birdie

[00:42:05] team up is great and it would have been nice to see how they all met.

[00:42:08] We did get more of their dynamic in Episode 7, which is something, but Episode 8 suffers

[00:42:12] from one of the classic criticisms of MCU movies, the over-reliance on the Act 3 fight,

[00:42:18] fight, fight.

[00:42:19] They were very cool fights, but it's the same problem with many superhero movies, Marvel

[00:42:23] not accepting.

[00:42:24] If you have virtually indestructible beings fighting each other, it's hard to get connected

[00:42:28] to the stakes.

[00:42:29] Deadpool and Wolverine had got a good solution for this.

[00:42:31] The Peggy twist of pulling them all into the Strange Supreme Universe was a great plot device

[00:42:36] and depowered our antagonist to the point where actual talking and convincing could take place,

[00:42:40] but it was a bit of a letdown for me, particularly because it was the literal end of the season

[00:42:45] and series.

[00:42:46] I should note that Peggy, Storm, Chiori, Birdie team up is the second one in Marvel this

[00:42:50] year after Agatha and her coven.

[00:42:53] There's also the odd parallel of having a male be a part of each team and having that male

[00:42:57] will be the reason the team forms.

[00:42:58] Disney as a whole gave us a third grouping of women in the Acolytes, and I'm not even

[00:43:02] going to talk about Madame Web.

[00:43:04] 3.5 stars for this episode.

[00:43:07] One bonus note for me from Season 3, Episode 1, I could swear they used the $6 million man

[00:43:12] bionic woman sound effect of bionic movement in one of the punches from Mighty Avenger against

[00:43:16] the Apex.

[00:43:17] This was confirmed when I started watching reactions to the show on YouTube and heard it

[00:43:21] again.

[00:43:21] So there you go.

[00:43:22] Great stuff, Paul.

[00:43:23] And thanks for the old bonus note around Episode 1.

[00:43:26] Yeah, I'll need to watch it again.

[00:43:28] I mentioned it to you.

[00:43:29] Yeah.

[00:43:29] For sure.

[00:43:30] I actually thought when I heard it first that it was the jumping sound of Hulk when he used

[00:43:34] to...

[00:43:35] Oh, it was that one.

[00:43:36] Yeah.

[00:43:36] Yeah.

[00:43:36] But actually, the second time I watched it, I remembered that that's actually the $6 million

[00:43:40] man noise.

[00:43:42] Probably because I haven't watched those shows for over 30 years.

[00:43:46] Gosh.

[00:43:46] Making me sound old there.

[00:43:48] But yes, you're right.

[00:43:49] It is that sound.

[00:43:50] Definitely.

[00:43:51] As for...

[00:43:52] Yeah.

[00:43:52] There isn't a huge amount of lore in the MCU about the Watchers.

[00:43:57] Just what we've seen here in What If?

[00:43:59] And that's just coming from the voice of the Watcher.

[00:44:01] Yeah.

[00:44:01] That scene you're thinking of is the scene at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.

[00:44:05] And it is just a joke scene where Stan Lee is telling the Watchers that he's basically

[00:44:09] one of them.

[00:44:10] Yeah.

[00:44:10] And they all walk away and leave him behind.

[00:44:12] The one comic series, I think, which is really interesting that involves the Watcher, but

[00:44:17] it also involves Nick Fury, is that someone has killed the Watcher.

[00:44:20] That's right.

[00:44:21] Has murdered him and Nick Fury is on the case.

[00:44:24] And that's a nice...

[00:44:26] That's a nice series of comics to get a bit of lore and some background around the Watcher.

[00:44:34] Absolutely.

[00:44:34] The series is called Original Sin.

[00:44:36] Yeah.

[00:44:37] It's really good.

[00:44:38] I think it's the last ever Nick Fury senior story in the Marvel Universe.

[00:44:42] He has returned for the ultimate universe, though, thankfully.

[00:44:45] Absolutely.

[00:44:45] I'm not going to cry anymore.

[00:44:46] Don't cry.

[00:44:47] Don't cry.

[00:44:48] Excellent stuff.

[00:44:49] Thanks, Paul.

[00:44:51] Thanks so much for the feedback.

[00:44:52] Really good, as always.

[00:44:55] Lindsay Lowers says,

[00:45:27] Excellent spot, Lindsay.

[00:45:28] Yes, I remember that now that I read your feedback.

[00:45:32] And really miss T'Challa and Chadwick Boseman.

[00:45:35] Really hope to get another fun Marvel animation project again, or in any other projects that can allow any of these characters to continue their stories.

[00:45:45] What if will be missed.

[00:45:46] Great coverage, as always.

[00:45:48] Fellow defenders, cheers.

[00:45:50] Great stuff, Lindsay.

[00:45:52] I'm really pleased you enjoyed the What If series.

[00:45:55] Me too.

[00:45:57] Totally.

[00:45:57] Absolutely.

[00:45:58] As I say, what if this didn't exist?

[00:46:01] Ponder that thought.

[00:46:02] Absolutely.

[00:46:03] Because I think it's given us some really, really good stuff in terms of, you know, with Peggy Carter.

[00:46:10] I think with Stephen Strange, you know, I think some like one-offs as well, like the 1872 one, like the 1602, you know, something really different.

[00:46:21] Yeah.

[00:46:21] So, yeah, totally agree with that.

[00:46:24] And yes, miss old T'Challa as well.

[00:46:28] But hopefully we'll have a new outing of the new Black Panther soon.

[00:46:33] Yeah, apparently Black Panther 3 is in production at the moment in the writing room.

[00:46:39] Not in the filming yet, so it'll be a while away.

[00:46:42] But yes, apparently the third Black Panther movie is in development.

[00:46:46] That's the way you say it.

[00:46:47] So hopefully we'll see that.

[00:46:48] But yes, absolutely miss Chadwick Boseman on screen.

[00:46:52] He was such a great presence in Marvel movies and other movies as well.

[00:46:55] He's always been a great actor.

[00:46:57] And one final piece of feedback in from Dr. Bob Phillips, who says,

[00:46:59] After the echoes of Vic and Bob, Ranu, Wahoo, Uwatsu, died out of my mind.

[00:47:06] It was okay here in The Watcher's Name.

[00:47:07] I thought this was a neat rap on the Peggy storyline.

[00:47:10] I miss seeing Agatha and Red brought into the story again, but have to keep reminding myself that What If was all about splintered stories that happened to have some splinters matching up.

[00:47:19] Satisfying overall.

[00:47:20] But star stories were the unconnected 1872 and Agatha.

[00:47:25] Thanks, Dr. Bob.

[00:47:26] I think I totally agree with that.

[00:47:27] 1872 was definitely one of my favorites of the season.

[00:47:30] That Agatha episode with King Goat was really good.

[00:47:33] Yeah.

[00:47:33] No, I'm the same.

[00:47:34] I think they were absolutely the star stories.

[00:47:38] And I think followed really much by the buddy road trip movie of Red Guardian and Winter Soldier.

[00:47:45] Yeah, that would be fun too.

[00:47:46] Really enjoyed that as well.

[00:47:47] Thanks, Dr. Bob.

[00:47:48] Yeah.

[00:47:49] Thanks so much, Dr. Bob.

[00:47:50] Great stuff.

[00:47:51] Well, thanks again to everybody for all your feedback for our season three, our final season.

[00:47:56] It's always been great to hear your points of view.

[00:47:58] It's expanded on our own thoughts about the episodes many times.

[00:48:01] Absolutely.

[00:48:02] Absolutely.

[00:48:03] It's great to have you, fellow defenders, listening in to our coverage of What If.

[00:48:09] Thanks to everyone who has sent in their feedback.

[00:48:12] It's great to get your thoughts, observations, different perspectives, you name it.

[00:48:18] It's great stuff.

[00:48:19] And it's also just for us to say thank you so much for joining us for this third and final season of What If.

[00:48:26] Yeah.

[00:48:26] We'll absolutely be back with a bang in the new year in 2025 with lots more Marvel podcasts,

[00:48:34] including in the very near future, Captain America Brave New World in February.

[00:48:41] Yep.

[00:48:41] And then the return of Daredevil in Mark.

[00:48:45] So exciting.

[00:48:46] Yeah.

[00:48:47] So excited for that.

[00:48:48] Lots of stuff there in the first quarter of next year.

[00:48:52] Yeah.

[00:48:53] Lots more MCU stuff.

[00:48:54] Not terrible Marvel like Madam Web and Craven and the terrible Sony version of what Marvel do,

[00:49:05] which is just I feel like it's just been damaging the brand of Marvel,

[00:49:09] even though Marvel stepped back from putting movies out because Sony's been putting out these terrible movies.

[00:49:14] It's hitting Marvel harder, I feel.

[00:49:16] So they need to get some good stuff out there like Daredevil, like Captain America Brave New World,

[00:49:21] which I'm really looking forward to.

[00:49:22] And then we got Fantastic Four coming later in the year.

[00:49:24] And Ironheart finally coming out next year as well.

[00:49:26] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:49:28] Great stuff.

[00:49:28] Yeah.

[00:49:29] Thanks so much for joining us.

[00:49:30] We will talk to you again in 2025.

[00:49:33] Yes, absolutely, fellow defenders.

[00:49:35] I think my sign-off takes on a different meaning with until next time, keep watching, keep listening, and keep defending.

[00:49:46] Yes, interfere, defend.

[00:49:48] Exactly.

[00:49:48] Keep seeing.

[00:49:49] Help the people.

[00:49:49] Yes.

[00:49:50] Yeah, help the people.

[00:49:51] Yes.

[00:49:51] Yes.

[00:49:52] Bye.

[00:49:53] See you now.

[00:49:53] Bye.

[00:49:55] Bye.

[00:49:56] Bye.

[00:49:56] Bye.